1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: I'm at a Turkey and to Skipson, joined by staff 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: writer Jane mcgrad. Hey there, Jane. We've got a pretty 5 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: hot Putton issue to talk about today. Propaganda and propaganda 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: isn't just I want you posters featuring Uncle Sam has 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: a dark side too. That's right, it does have a 8 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: dark side. I think it's most known for back in 9 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: World War Two with the Hitler and his propaganda machine. 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: But we're gonna take a step back first and uh 11 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: and talk about the origin of propaganda, which dates back 12 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: to about sixteen twenty two with actually the Catholic Church 13 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: when Popa named Gregory the fifteenth I believe he uh 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: started the Congregation of Propaganda. And you know, at this 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: at the time, it's not like a hot button word. 16 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: It just meant that he wanted to convert back people 17 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: who had converted to Protestantism from the Reformation at the 18 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: time exactly. So it was a type of missionary work. Really, 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: and you may not think that missionary work is synonymous 20 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: with propaganda, but when you take the term propaganda and 21 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: look at it in a nutshell, you can see that. 22 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: You know, it does fall into the big umbrella. And essentially, 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: propagandas a type of media, whether it's print or broadcast, 24 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: it's used to convey a message to persuade someone to 25 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: do something, and it could be good or it could 26 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: be bad. When you're trying to convince someone to act 27 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: in a way that would benefit himself or herself, then 28 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: you know, you could say that propaganda isn't too harmful. 29 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: But if you're trying to disseminate information that's really one 30 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: sided and you're not sharing all the facts, and ultimately, 31 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: if you persuade a person to act a certain way 32 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: it's going to be detrimental to him or her, then 33 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: you've got a case of bad propaganda. And if we're 34 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: dancing around the issue, what exactly is propaganda is because 35 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: it is such a widely disputed definition, like scholars like 36 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: dedicate their their academic lives to defining propaganda, So you know, 37 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: we have to take this talk with a grain of 38 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: salt of wood. Is propaganda it's different leagues of different people. Yeah, 39 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: and we know that origins of propaganda may stretch back 40 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: as far as biblical times when an Assyrian king actually 41 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: used fear propaganda, which is a type that will get 42 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: into in a second, to wage the surrender of the 43 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 1: Kingdom of Judah. And there are some scholars who say 44 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: that Caesar may have used propaganda propaganda to bolster his reputation. 45 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: So ultimately, Jane is going to get into a really 46 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: interesting story about propaganda. But before we can get there, 47 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: we're going to cover some basic so that you guys 48 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: can have a better, more scholarly understanding of what propaganda is. 49 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: And I think that a good place to start, just 50 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: to get you guys thinking about that, is to tell 51 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: you about a few different types of groups that use 52 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: propaganda today. So think about the last anti smoking commercial 53 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: you saw, or a safe driving campaign, or maybe some 54 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 1: of you out there are high schoolers and there's someone 55 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 1: who comes right before senior prom and you know, brings 56 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 1: a smashed up car into the quad, someone who is 57 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: driving drunk, you know, gotten to an accident with This 58 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: is propaganda. It's a it's a visual technique, it's an 59 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: oral technique, something to convince you to act a certain way. 60 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: And it's not just anti something groups. That's businesses, it's 61 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: political groups, it's governmental organizations, it's political candidates. Certainly all 62 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: of out there heard a radio add or saw a 63 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: television spot back, you know, before the November elections. Right 64 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: off of this time, we're like, we're just inundated with 65 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: these political messages commercial every two seconds for this candidate 66 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: or that candidate. Oh, this is propaganda, and you're right 67 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: to mention. Uh, we usually think of propaganda as these 68 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: sort of political messages, but of course everything from anti 69 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: smoking ads to drinking ads, etcetera, etcetera. And don't confuse 70 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,279 Speaker 1: propaganda with advertisements. You have to think about who's disseminating 71 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: the message to you, who is trying to get you 72 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: to act in a certain way. And we'll get into 73 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: a couple of different ways that you can tell advertisements 74 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: from propaganda. So now let's talk about some different techniques 75 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: that people use propaganda. Uh. The first one is usually 76 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: associated with propaganda is called name calling. And that's exactly 77 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: what it sounds like, you guys, Yeah, it is. It's 78 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: it's basically from the schoolyard, you know, when you used 79 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: to call someone a name, and basically people say that 80 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: you can do this or people usually do do this 81 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: when they want to take the focus off of themselves, 82 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: and they don't want to answer a question directly, they 83 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: don't have a very good argument to return with, and 84 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: so they just turn it on the their opponent and 85 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: they call them something like a hypocrite or a traitor. Yeah, 86 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: and it's really effective. And to hearken back again to 87 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: the November elections. In the campaign, we saw a lot 88 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: of name calling surrounding Barack Obama because it was really 89 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: easy to throw terms into the into the mix, like 90 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: you know, he's a terrorist, or you know he's an 91 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: Arab or a Muslim. These are some of the terms 92 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: that people use to name call him. And a lot 93 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: of the people who were calling him these names did 94 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: it out of fear or essentially miseducation of of who 95 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,239 Speaker 1: he really was. It's a cheap and easy and direct 96 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: way to get the side rallied again to someone. Yeah, 97 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: that's right. And you bring us to another version or 98 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: another method for using propaganda, which is fear. And you 99 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: can see this a lot. I mean not to say 100 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: one way or the other about about global warming, but 101 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: global warming proponents who want us to start paying attention 102 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: to the issue will use fear um in terms of saying, look, 103 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: what will happen to our society is that planet in 104 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: general if we don't act, all different kinds of uh 105 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: of movements use the force of fear to get people 106 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: to come to their side, and that leads to another 107 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: good one, and that will not a good one necessarily, 108 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: but one that's analogous to it, and that's the bandwagon technique. 109 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: And the idea is that you convince someone well, everybody 110 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: else is on this side, don't you want to be 111 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: on this side too? And it plays on the human 112 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: emotion to not want to be left alone in the dust. 113 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: So if you know everyone is going to vote a 114 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: certain way, or everyone you know believes in global warming, 115 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: then why not jump on the bandwagon? You be part 116 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: of it too. That's true. And the idea of wanting 117 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: to be like everyone else brings us to another one 118 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: that we call plane folks, where elite, lofty politicians can 119 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: can try to identify with the average ordin person by 120 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: making him or herself seem like they're dis ordinary exactly. 121 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: And if you guys remember an earlier podcast we did 122 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: about a vaparone, we mentioned that she spent a lot 123 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: of her time going around Argentina kissing babies, cutting ribbons 124 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 1: and at grand openings and things like this, and this 125 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: is you know, politicians around the world use this technique 126 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: because it's a way to be a part of the mass. 127 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: And how many pictures have you seen of people running 128 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: for president or people who are presidents? Um, oh, I 129 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: don't know, say, jogging to McDonald's for breakfast or lounging 130 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: on a fishing boat. It's a really good way to 131 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: keep in touch with the common man when you're not 132 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: exactly common, that's right. And another method kind of related 133 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: to that is the idea of transfer, which is taking 134 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: like a symbol or something that most people like and 135 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: transferring it to your own cause I correct me if 136 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, Candice, But I kind of associate this with 137 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: the bloody shirt sort of method in terms of calling 138 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: on emotions that people already have with one thing like uh, 139 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: you know, the death of a hero or something like that, 140 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: and bringing it over to their own side and saying, 141 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: if you if you feel anything for this fallen hero, 142 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: then you have to join our side sort of thing. Oh, definitely, 143 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: I think that is applicable or anytime you see again, 144 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: we we keep coming back to political office, but it's 145 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: just such, you know, a sellient point. Anytime you see 146 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: a political figures face in front of an American flag 147 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: or an eagle or something like that, you get that 148 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: sense that they're aligned with a symbol that we have 149 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: a lot of trust in a lot of history. What 150 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: if you have patriotism? If you exactly? And that brings 151 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: us to a final technique that we're going to discuss, 152 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: and that is glittering generalities and use of words like 153 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: patriotism and liberty and dream and family. The idea of 154 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: these very scintillating, sweet little messages in terms that you 155 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: can throw around in context with a person's name, makes 156 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: it seem like that person is is criticism. If if 157 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: you say that you know so and so is a 158 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: family man and he believes in patriotism, well how could 159 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: he be bad? But if you say, you know, Adolf 160 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: Hitler is a fly man and he certainly has a dream, 161 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: we know that, you know, at least retrospectively, his dream 162 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: wasn't such a good idea. And that brings us to 163 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: the most popular, the most famous, i should say, propaganda 164 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: machine run by Hitler. He actually eliminated propaganda from the 165 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: other side. That's what that's one way to do it 166 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: is just to get rid of everything that's contrary to 167 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: what you believe, cut the people off from from their 168 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: access to that information. And he actually had a Minister 169 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: of Propaganda in Joseph Goebbel's and he ran the National 170 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: Ministry for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, which I think is 171 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: very interesting name. And Goebel's basically ran all media. Uh 172 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: he ran news, radio, literature, uh, movies, you name it. 173 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: There's a famous one called Triumph of the Will. He 174 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: actually even banned jazz, or at least he tried to, 175 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: because the music itself seemed too individualistic and he wants 176 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 1: to bring people in line, which I didn't know before, 177 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: and that that was a very interesting fact. Um he 178 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: was very cunning, and that like even when Germany lost 179 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: a battle and things didn't look so great, he didn't 180 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: even falsify and nation. He he didn't want to seem 181 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: like someone who was covering up. He Um would just 182 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: sort of, uh draw historical parallels to drive up some spirit. 183 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: And he would sometimes he would actually say, oh, Germany 184 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: as a secret weapon. Don't worry guys, Like everything's gonna 185 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: be all right. So Gobel's is one of the most 186 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: famous and he is very effective too. I mean, just 187 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: the whole hype over over Hitler and the idea that 188 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: Hitler would be bringing Germany back as a world power. 189 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: It really worked and it was an essential part of 190 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: Hitler's whole regime, definitely, And I think that the Nazis 191 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: took a cure from the success of propaganda and World 192 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: War One and really made propaganda a vital component of 193 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: their campaign. And as far as I understand, like you 194 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: were saying, Jane, they dispelled all information that would cast 195 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: the Nazis and an unfavorable light, and they did things 196 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: like selling radio is a really rock bottom prices so 197 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: that everyone could have a medium through which to hear 198 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: the Nazi message. They were silent films made during the 199 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: Nazis at work, and Hitler was made to appear very large, 200 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,719 Speaker 1: larger than life really and and god like, and he 201 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: was everywhere. He was a very pervasive part of the war. 202 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: And on the other side, if if you were with 203 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: the Allies, you could see that it worked pretty well 204 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: to use Hitler in a way to motivate people back 205 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: home to act in favor of the war. Say you 206 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: were trying to ration. Um. There were a couple of 207 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: US World War Two posters that said things like um uh, 208 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: waste helps the enemy, or they were trying to get 209 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: people to conserve fuel by car pooling. And so there 210 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: was this one poster of a guy in a little 211 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: car and he's got this um ghost of a figure 212 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: next to him, which is clearly supposed to be Hitler, 213 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: and the line reads, when you ride alone, you ride 214 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: with Hitler. And another one of my favorite one just 215 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: trying to encourage women to get a wartime job while 216 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 1: the men were away. And so it shows this very 217 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: glamorous looking woman looking very forlorn and staring into the distance. 218 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: Um and the line that when read's longing won't bring 219 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: him home any sooner, get a war job, just you know. 220 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: And and propaganda like that sort of makes you feel 221 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: good because you look back and you remember when and 222 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: you you can imagine that people were really, you know, 223 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: bucking app and and working hard to to feel patriotic 224 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: and get the country through the war. And I think 225 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons that propaganda like that today 226 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: is sort of an art form. You know, we can 227 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: look at it as a piece of art and study 228 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: the color and the way that the figures are drawn 229 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: and how art is used versus photography, and we see 230 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 1: a photography being used and propaganda from this time too, 231 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 1: especially when um, I guess that the people, the masterminds 232 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: behind the propaganda wanted a really visceral image to really 233 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: drive the fact home that people were dying out there. 234 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: And so you can look back at World War two 235 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: propaganda and see different levels of I guess, of seriousness 236 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: and appeal to people, trying to get people involved. Yeah, 237 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: it's interesting you mentioned art. That's one thing I find 238 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: really interesting about propaganda, and like it calls back to 239 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: an earlier podcast we did on Rosie the Riveter of 240 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,599 Speaker 1: a They brought in Norman Rockwell uh to pay in 241 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: a very famous image of of Rosie. UM. But also 242 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: you look at art in terms of literature, which I 243 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: find interesting. You take a look at Harriet beecher Stowe's 244 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: Uncle Tom's Cabin, for instance, one of the most famous 245 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: pieces of propaganda anti slavery propaganda, and books like Marx's 246 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: Communist Manifesto obviously, Yeah, yeah, incredibly um influential. And actually 247 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 1: I was going to say about Marxists, UM later Marxists 248 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: that came after Karl Marx actually defined propaganda as the 249 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: reasoned use of historical and scientific arguments to indoctrinate the 250 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: educated public, and they contrasted this to what they called agitation. 251 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: Agitation to them was using half truths and like more 252 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: underhanded ways to exploit the uneducated. And I find this 253 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: in an interesting um differentiation. But also they came to 254 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: the conclusion that they needed to use both of these 255 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: things in order to succeed at all, and they put 256 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: it together. They actually all to edgit prop interesting word, 257 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: but it was just interesting that they knew that they 258 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: needed to go after the educated and and the uneducated 259 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 1: through underhanded means in order to succeed at all. Well, 260 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: that's really smart, because you can get the uneducated people 261 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: on your side using techniques like the bandwagon method or 262 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: glittering generalities. But if you're going to go after college 263 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: educated people who pride themselves on being independent thinkers and 264 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: being able to think above the average man, you're going 265 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: to need a more scruptitious means. Where else you're going 266 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: to have to appeal to ideological pre steps that no 267 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: one can argue with. And that's what's so interesting. You 268 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: brought up Uncle Tom's Cabin. I I read that back 269 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: in grad school and if you look at you know 270 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: that the style of prose and the level of vocabulary, 271 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: I use, it's pretty basic. Anyone could get through that 272 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: book and the level of reader. It's really long, but 273 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: you can get through it. It's written very simplistically, and 274 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: there's something very beautiful about it too, and it's certainly 275 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: a touching story, but it's meant for any reader, and 276 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: it brings to mind the idea of it's each communication 277 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 1: one I want to a pathos appeal and an ethos appeal. 278 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: Are you appealing to someone's emotions or you appealing to 279 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: someone's ethics? And I think it takes two different types 280 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: of intelligence to relate there, and it helps if you've 281 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: got both. But if you know, if you're trying to 282 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: get a wider audience, I think your emotional pills usually 283 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: the quickest way. And that's when you see people, even 284 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: like anti abortion protesters standing on the street corner holding 285 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: up a sign of a fetus or an arm or 286 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: something that's you know, sort of gory that really gets 287 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: you right and there. Sure, yeah, and it's interesting. I mean, 288 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: if we're gonna convey anything in this discussion of propaganda. 289 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: I think it's the idea that barbaganda can come in 290 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: so many different forms and for so many different purposes. UM. 291 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: I know one topic that you're interested in, Candice, is 292 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: the idea of the cult of Jonestown, which you know, 293 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: the article we have on site actually mentions drinking the 294 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: kool aid and that comes from from this cult of 295 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: convincing people just to um to drink poison basically out 296 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: of propaganda. And that's that's pretty effective. It's amazing what 297 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: people can be convinced to do if words are spun. 298 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: In my such messages are spun and just the right way. 299 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: And at least in the United States, we should be 300 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: very grateful for the fact that back in two thousand five, 301 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: the George W. Bush administration signed into law of the 302 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: Stop Government Propaganda Now Bill. Essentially, this bill made it 303 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: unlawful for TV reporters to take money to spend a 304 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: story and also any messages that are disseminated have to 305 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: clearly state who's funding them. And the idea is that 306 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: UM government funds can't be allocated to pay for propaganda. 307 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: That's right, and this came out of some scandals I 308 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: think right, uh, if governmental agencies paying TUV reporters to 309 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: actually skew messages towards UM what they wanted to convey 310 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: to the people. And so we're really lucky, I know 311 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: that UM. In China, for instance, the people who live 312 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: there aren't quite as lucky because the government actually back 313 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven, there was Public Security Ministry 314 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: hired nearly thirty thousand people to oversee electronic activity. And 315 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: these are online forums, and the internet is a really 316 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: largely unmonitored source of propaganda. And it's a double edged 317 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: sword because while the internet can be helpful for you 318 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: to research both sides of the story to see, you know, 319 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: who's trying to get you to think what, it also 320 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: is a really big center of these confusing propaganda type messages. 321 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: But in China, when people are browsing online, the government 322 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: had these two cartoon police caricatures created that sort of 323 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: pop up every now and then to remind people that 324 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: their activity was being tracked. And so not only would 325 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: you be made to feel that you weren't free to 326 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: educate yourself and to research both sides of the story, 327 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: but it's known that you know, people over there can't 328 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: trust necessarily all the statistics that come from the government. 329 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: There was one case where really heavy rains when summer 330 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: had flooded parts of of different villages and towns and 331 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: there were a lot of deaths from drowning, and the 332 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: government released the stanmth that only thirty or so people 333 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: had died, and that clearly wasn't the case because a 334 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: grocery store had been flooded and at least a hundred 335 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: of people had died in that disaster. And so it's 336 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: the floodwaters had received at and people could see, you know, 337 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: the corpses flooding everywhere. It was clear that the government 338 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: had lied. So again we we should be grateful for 339 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: our freedoms and also be really responsible and think about 340 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: who's sending a message and what point is that person 341 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: trying to get across who's paying them? So buck up, 342 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 1: you guys and do your research. That's true, and it's 343 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: interesting you say it's a double edged sword being having 344 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: the Internet and everything even I mean horrible of course 345 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: that that China would would suppress the information from the Internet. 346 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: But at the same time, when we have more options, 347 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 1: people tend to only go to those those places where 348 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: they know their their own um already established opinions are 349 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: going to be reinforced. And so you know, you take 350 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: like if you if you think that some UH news channels, 351 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: for instance, lean towards the left and some lean towards 352 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: the right, the idea um that people fear is that 353 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: people who are more towards the left will only listen 354 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: to the leftist stations and people towards the right when 355 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: we listen to the right, and nobody's ever going to 356 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: get like a moderately objective story. And so that is 357 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: one drawback to having the Internet and so many variety 358 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 1: of of of you know, sources of information, right, I agree, 359 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,959 Speaker 1: variety It can be bad as well as it can 360 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: be good. And I know that was an issue that 361 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: even came up with the Tea thousand eight elections. There 362 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 1: were a lot of criticisms thrown out against the media 363 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: for not being objective and portraying the two presidential candidates 364 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: and even leading up to the Democratic National Convention, the 365 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: portrayal of Obama and Clinton respectively, and how things turn out. 366 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: There so a lot of club of and I think 367 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: that this year especially and even during the first one 368 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: days of the administration, the media is really going to 369 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: be called the task to be fair and to be objective. 370 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: I think it's easy when you have a young president 371 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: in office who has such a beautiful family and who 372 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: is capable of such great things, and the country is 373 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: going through a hard time. I think it's easy to 374 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: sway one way and to give out, you know, really excited, 375 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: hopeful messages. But you can't overlook the facts. So it'll 376 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,439 Speaker 1: be interesting to see what happened. And as always, when 377 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: you guys are reading your newspapers and reading your internet 378 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: news sources and listening to the news on the radio 379 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: and TV, to be careful and think for yourselves, and 380 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: be sure to visit our website to get more information 381 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: on propaganda and some other historical figures that we've discussed 382 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: on how stuff works dot com. For more on this 383 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com. 384 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 1: Let us know what you think. Send an email to 385 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: podcast at how stuff works dot com.