Speaker 1: Welcome back everyone to this edition of Amy and PJ.
Speaker 1: This is part two of our conversation with four time
Speaker 1: Grammy nominee Jewel.
Speaker 2: You talked earlier about liking to be alone, right, and
Speaker 2: that was helpful for you. But then you have something
Speaker 2: called the not Alone Challenge. Now help us bridge that
Speaker 2: divide if you will, but no, explain. This started several
Speaker 2: years ago and it's grown to the point now you
Speaker 2: have an award show coming out. But how did it
Speaker 2: start in the first place.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's a great distinction. You know, being alone
Speaker 3: is different than loneliness. You can feel lonely around people.
Speaker 3: You can be alone and feel deeply connected. It's a
Speaker 3: very personal thing. But I really you know, we've seen
Speaker 3: the stats on mental health are really dismal. One in
Speaker 3: four kids are contemplating taking their life, and it's not
Speaker 3: much better for adults in all honesty, and so we're
Speaker 3: really living through an epidemic of disconnection. And we forgot
Speaker 3: how to connect to ourselves in a meaningful way. You know,
Speaker 3: where we enjoy being alone and we like our company,
Speaker 3: we've lost how to really connect to one another in
Speaker 3: a meaningful way and connections nourishing. It's very it's important
Speaker 3: to us. We're a carbon based molecule. We're literally built
Speaker 3: to connect. And so the challenge is was actually the
Speaker 3: diet idea of our kids. We have a mental health
Speaker 3: foundation and we've been doing it for twenty five years
Speaker 3: and it was one of their idea to do a
Speaker 3: social media challenge, and it's just been wildly successful. We've
Speaker 3: gotten over three billion impressions. It's just been unreal in
Speaker 3: four years. And so for me, it's really about not
Speaker 3: just raising awareness, but putting tools into people's hands that
Speaker 3: are free, giving them resources that they may not know about,
Speaker 3: because I think it's mean to raise awareness and then
Speaker 3: not help them. That's just because you kind of are
Speaker 3: also aware your miserable. It's like, but now what do
Speaker 3: I do about it? And then the success was just
Speaker 3: so overwhelming that we decided to segue it into a
Speaker 3: summit this year and an awards show.
Speaker 1: That's incredible and it's interesting hearing you say we've never
Speaker 1: been more disconnected, and yet we've never been more connected
Speaker 1: technologically speaking, how much do you think that has actually
Speaker 1: been a huge disservice. I know you can be empowering
Speaker 1: with social media challenges and hashtags. And getting information out there.
Speaker 1: Why do you think we're in the state we're in
Speaker 1: given the technology we.
Speaker 3: Have it, I don't know. Food might be a good metaphor.
Speaker 3: You know, you can be full and have a junk
Speaker 3: food diet and you're nutritionally starving, and so you want
Speaker 3: to look at like what type of calories might and
Speaker 3: I'm going to get really nourishing diet and connections like that.
Speaker 3: There's vapid entertainment excitatory which a lot of our technology does.
Speaker 3: You know, when you scroll through your Instagram or whatever,
Speaker 3: it can be sort of this biochemical perk, almost like
Speaker 3: it's like a hit that we're kind of also forgetting
Speaker 3: what deep, meaningful can feels like it's different than excitement.
Speaker 2: Do we have kids growing up who don't have any
Speaker 2: idea what that is? I mean, some adults could have
Speaker 2: lost it along the way, but we have a whole
Speaker 2: generation growing up that they know how to use an
Speaker 2: iPad and navigated by the age of two or three.
Speaker 2: So their connection has always been that are we losing
Speaker 2: in your opinion, and to some degree, a generation of
Speaker 2: kids who are coming up and right now have no
Speaker 2: idea about what it's like to have a human family
Speaker 2: connection on a homestead. We don't have to go to
Speaker 2: that extreme, but you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's an unprecedented time to parent. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm a fourteen year old, and so iPads were around
Speaker 3: and doing well when I was a young mom. And
Speaker 3: seeing my son's personality change when I took the iPad
Speaker 3: away when he was four, I was like, Oh, there's
Speaker 3: something up, Like, this isn't what I think it is.
Speaker 3: This isn't harmless entertainment and learning that they really do
Speaker 3: get addicted to their own body chemistry through these excitatory
Speaker 3: neurochemicals and we're just not teaching parents about it, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. And you know, learning to have
Speaker 3: a calm, open, dilated sense of connection is very different
Speaker 3: than being excited and entertained, And so you definitely want
Speaker 3: to help your kids not confuse those two things if
Speaker 3: you can.
Speaker 1: I'm curious as a mom. You know, you said you
Speaker 1: wanted to break the cycle that you inherited, that your
Speaker 1: father inherited.
Speaker 3: How do you do that?
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's a heavy task once you've acknowledged
Speaker 1: and I mean, I'm a believer that we all all
Speaker 1: suffer from some form of mental health issues at sometimes
Speaker 1: every point in our lives. But it ebbs and flows.
Speaker 1: We're all in the thick of it, and we all
Speaker 1: inherit something. How do you how do you break a
Speaker 1: cycle like that? How have you done so?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think one is just through attention and the
Speaker 3: willingness to want to do it and to show up
Speaker 3: every day and make that a priority in your life.
Speaker 3: When you make your happiness your priority, your life will change.
Speaker 3: You know, how fast or how slowly is all up
Speaker 3: for debate, but it change for healing, you know, generational trauma.
Speaker 3: For me, like something that's really helped me is just
Speaker 3: the healing of the parent, is the healing of the child.
Speaker 3: You know, my commitment to heal is a gift to
Speaker 3: me and it's also a gift to my child. And
Speaker 3: then learning to live with the fact that you're not perfect.
Speaker 3: You're going to make mistakes in front of your child,
Speaker 3: and what you really hope their takeaway is is that
Speaker 3: they're going to be growing and healing and learning their
Speaker 3: whole life too.
Speaker 2: How is your What do you notice about your son
Speaker 2: at the age of fourteen and you think back to
Speaker 2: how you were at the age of fourteen, coming up
Speaker 2: in a much different place, in a different way, different mindset.
Speaker 2: How do you compare those two kids?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I became a single mom when I
Speaker 3: was forty, I guess. And I was like, how do
Speaker 3: you be a single parent and be famous and rich?
Speaker 3: Like it's kind of like having two strikes against you as.
Speaker 1: A parent, I think.
Speaker 3: And so I was like, I don't think I could
Speaker 3: be famous, rich and live in la I know a
Speaker 3: lot of parents do it successful. I just it was
Speaker 3: so far from how I was raised. I didn't know
Speaker 3: how to do it. I was like, that's three strikes,
Speaker 3: Like I don't know how to parents around that one.
Speaker 3: That's a tough culture. So for me, it was like
Speaker 3: I made a big commitment to move in a tiny town,
Speaker 3: to use nature as kind of my co parent the
Speaker 3: way it was one for me, and to just have
Speaker 3: a specific lifestyle hopefully that could help anchor my son
Speaker 3: into a very real experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that concept, to have nature be a
Speaker 1: co parent with you. That's pretty cool. I can say
Speaker 1: that some of the most meaningful and mindful experiences I've
Speaker 1: had with my children were hiking. They had to put
Speaker 1: their phones down because there was no cell reception where
Speaker 1: we were, and they all of a sudden were connected
Speaker 1: to something that Especially raising kids in New York City
Speaker 1: has been a difficult situation in a lot of ways
Speaker 1: because it was very different from how I was raised,
Speaker 1: certainly how TJ. Was raised Georgia, Arkansas we're in you know,
Speaker 1: are jungle and so yes, raising kids without access to
Speaker 1: the kind of nature that we grew up with is
Speaker 1: significant and I never thought about it like that, But
Speaker 1: that's pretty cool. We can learn a lot from our surroundings,
Speaker 1: maybe not as much in New York City, but maybe
Speaker 1: in ways we didn't want our kids to learn.
Speaker 2: Is he connected to earth like you were? Would you say?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he has a really meaningful connection. So I don't
Speaker 3: think it's the same we have such a childhoods but
Speaker 3: yeah he has a And you know, nature does it
Speaker 3: for you, like if you have a hard time relaxing,
Speaker 3: get out in big nature. There's studies on what it
Speaker 3: does to your nervous system and helps it dilate and
Speaker 3: helps you regulate your nervous system.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you are absolutely appreciing to the choir.
Speaker 1: There is something about being Any problem you have suddenly
Speaker 1: just doesn't seem insurmountable. True when you're surrounded by nature.
Speaker 1: I love that. Now you mentioned raising awareness is one thing.
Speaker 1: Giving people tools is actually what is meaningful, in the
Speaker 1: sense that we have to give not just our children
Speaker 1: but adults too, outlets and ways to figure out how
Speaker 1: to get better, how to make happiness a priority. What
Speaker 1: are some of those ways that you all are sharing
Speaker 1: with people who attend the summit and certainly news of
Speaker 1: this awareness.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many tools. So I guess just for
Speaker 3: anybody listening, you know, if talk therapy hasn't worked for you,
Speaker 3: there's CBT, there's DBT, there's transcranial magnets. So keep going.
Speaker 3: You know, if some one modality didn't work for you,
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean you're broken. It just means you didn't
Speaker 3: probably find the right tools. Yet.
Speaker 1: What were those acronyms, because I don't even know what
Speaker 1: they stand for.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one is CBT, it's cognitive behavioral therapy. The other
Speaker 3: one's dialectical behavioral therapy. I'm a big believer that by
Speaker 3: changing our thoughts, feelings, and actions, we see specific results
Speaker 3: in our lives. Talk therapy for me, personally alone never
Speaker 3: quite worked. I would become aware of my problems, which
Speaker 3: was like really great, but then I needed to like
Speaker 3: practice something to change these long ingrained habits that I
Speaker 3: had had. So CBT and DBT kind of revolve around
Speaker 3: that the practicable things that you can do to wake up.
Speaker 3: But there's tons of tricks. You know, we have a
Speaker 3: mental health Foundation and we work with kids with suicidal
Speaker 3: ideation and all kinds of things, and so you know,
Speaker 3: like for panic attacks, there's many things you can do,
Speaker 3: ice cubes, something cold. You know, when you have a
Speaker 3: panic attack, your brain goes offline, it goes dark, and
Speaker 3: if you watch an MRI you can look it up
Speaker 3: on the internet. Your blood drains out of your frontal
Speaker 3: lobes and your amigdala gets all of the blood, and
Speaker 3: so you literally go offline. And that's why it feels
Speaker 3: that way. And so if you want to you want
Speaker 3: to force blood back into the processing centers. And so
Speaker 3: one of the best ways to do that is just
Speaker 3: have sensory things so cold or hot or taste or
Speaker 3: touching something and making your brain process this is a
Speaker 3: cold white counter, just that type of detail your blood
Speaker 3: has to like redirect to process us those kinds of
Speaker 3: information signals and so that'll help you get out of
Speaker 3: a panic attack. And then you can learn to bring
Speaker 3: awareness around like way I can feel in coming on
Speaker 3: and then like, oh, I know for me, like if
Speaker 3: there's two, I call it pillar changes. Like if I'm
Speaker 3: going through two foundational changes in my life, I need
Speaker 3: to be really careful. I'm really prone to panic attacks
Speaker 3: if that happens. And so I can kind of develop
Speaker 3: like a little protocol for myself if I'm moving and
Speaker 3: going through a breakup or something like that, because I know,
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's gonna be triggy.
Speaker 2: I knew what she was talking about.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know, Yes, we know what that's like
Speaker 1: to have more than one.
Speaker 3: It's very dramatic.
Speaker 2: Nah. My pastor used to always say in that twelve
Speaker 2: month period, a person can't have more than five of
Speaker 2: those or you are clinically going insane, like you need help.
Speaker 2: And yes, it's it's a lot. I recognize it. When
Speaker 2: you said it. Oh yeah, we.
Speaker 3: Were like, oh that hits that reads. Yeah. And for me,
Speaker 3: like when you run too many strains and if I
Speaker 3: don't have a safe person with me, I'm fifty one
Speaker 3: years old, I'm like, no, I need a human binkie,
Speaker 3: What's what's coming with me?
Speaker 1: Both of my daughters still have their baby blankets. I
Speaker 1: don't know what that says, but they need They actually
Speaker 1: use them when they're feeling stressed. It absolutely works for them.
Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. That's why I never knew that about
Speaker 1: panic attacks. I just do something really valuable.
Speaker 3: Isn't it a shame that we all have brains, just
Speaker 3: like we have teeth? We all know dental hygiene. I
Speaker 3: don't feel embarrassed that I've gotten black and I f loss, Like,
Speaker 3: why are we embarrassed? We have brains and we need
Speaker 3: mental health hygiene, and like, why aren't we taught like
Speaker 3: what a panic attack is? Like it just blows my
Speaker 3: mind that information isn't out there.
Speaker 2: Are we doing much better about that? We feel like,
Speaker 2: and we like to say we're doing better in the
Speaker 2: mental health conversation, But are we doing better?
Speaker 3: That's an interesting topic. We're doing worse than ever, sadly,
Speaker 3: Like the stats around mental health are really abysmal, and
Speaker 3: so these types of tools are really needed. The great
Speaker 3: thing about not doing good is you know you need help,
Speaker 3: and so I think it's a great time to help people.
Speaker 3: People are in pain, people are struggling, And when people
Speaker 3: are struggling, they will tend to go through adopting something new,
Speaker 3: trying something new they may not have tried before. And
Speaker 3: then I think there's actually a real conversation to be
Speaker 3: had around the modern health mental health movement. I have
Speaker 3: a fear personally. I think that our spiritual practices and
Speaker 3: our self growth practices should make us grittier and more
Speaker 3: resilient and less precious. It should make us more capable.
Speaker 3: And I do worry sometimes that the way the mental
Speaker 3: health conversation can be had actually makes us more precious
Speaker 3: and more fragile, you know. And so I would just
Speaker 3: encourage anybody to just pay attention to is are the
Speaker 3: practices you're enveloping in your life making you grittier? Because
Speaker 3: we're built to handle stress. Actually, we're built for this,
Speaker 3: you know, So it should make us more resilient.
Speaker 1: I love that you just said that, because I think
Speaker 1: when people say things like you just triggered me again,
Speaker 1: you're giving away your power. You're saying you need to
Speaker 1: change your behavior so I feel safe. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think people start to believe that instead of realizing you
Speaker 1: actually have the power. The power is from within and
Speaker 1: you can acknowledge a trigger, but then you have to
Speaker 1: get curious, why do I feel that way? Instead of
Speaker 1: why did that person do that to me?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And I look at it like an economy, Like
Speaker 3: I can't invest my emotional energy, my emotional resources in
Speaker 3: a place I have zero control. You know, I actually
Speaker 3: shouldn't be investing it in myself because I do have
Speaker 3: the ability to influence my own decisions. And so you know,
Speaker 3: I got triggered by that. And what am I willing
Speaker 3: to do about that? Am I going to stay away
Speaker 3: from Sally?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: Because every time I'm around her I feel terrible? This
Speaker 3: is a hypothetical, Sally.
Speaker 2: I know people are going through your lyrics right now.
Speaker 1: Yes, Sally?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And am I willing to stay away from that relationship?
Speaker 3: You know? What? It's about a self responsibility?
Speaker 1: Wow, we don't practice that most of us humans, right,
Speaker 1: We're all about wanting to blame the other person. And
Speaker 1: also just this, I feel like there's this voyeurism out
Speaker 1: there now where we just want to see someone else's
Speaker 1: life that's messier than ours. So we feel better about
Speaker 1: hours that we don't have to fix hours because ours
Speaker 1: isn't as bad as theirs.
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of that's just because the
Speaker 3: idea of change is so overwhelming. I mean, where do
Speaker 3: you start. I mean, we're not taught these tools. So
Speaker 3: if you feel hopeless that you really actually can break
Speaker 3: down and have steps to changing yourself, A very good
Speaker 3: tactic is to say I don't need to change, they're
Speaker 3: the problem. You know, I get it.
Speaker 2: Last thing I did want to ask you actually on
Speaker 2: that point, there are a lot of people who are
Speaker 2: under assault to a certain degree by bills, trying to
Speaker 2: get food on the table, trying to get a kid
Speaker 2: safely to and from school every day. Right, there are
Speaker 2: a lot of parents who have so much on their plates,
Speaker 2: and I know you acknowledge that, but for them, for
Speaker 2: just a moment, if there was something you could say
Speaker 2: as a plea, like, I know you got all this
Speaker 2: going on, but why it's still important that they take
Speaker 2: even what first step and making sure they're okay upstairs?
Speaker 3: They matter? I mean, overwhelmed parents, you know, you always
Speaker 3: put yourself last. You're trying to care for everybody else,
Speaker 3: and often you are the only you know, you are
Speaker 3: the lynchpin in other people's lives without much safety in it,
Speaker 3: and It is wildly stressful, but you matter. Your happiness
Speaker 3: and your experience matter, and investing in that one friendship
Speaker 3: that's safe, calling that one person at night and where
Speaker 3: you can say, I'm shame spiraling, I just yelled at
Speaker 3: my kid or whatever it is. You know, have that
Speaker 3: one person that feels like a safe place, it feels
Speaker 3: like a respite. Learning to just stop and a lot
Speaker 3: of it. That's why I really am science focused. But
Speaker 3: in five breaths, you can get yourself off of fight
Speaker 3: or flight and into pair sympathetic nervous system. By breaths.
Speaker 3: You have five breaths. Everybody has five breaths, you know,
Speaker 3: and so investing that as self care is really important.
Speaker 3: But if you weren't raised with somebody caring for you,
Speaker 3: it's very hard to establish the habit of caring for yourself.
Speaker 3: It's not comfortable. But there's a simple, free thing that
Speaker 3: you can do, and everybody's worth it.
Speaker 1: I love that. I still am kind of reeling about
Speaker 1: the ice or something to actually physically. You know, we
Speaker 1: all put it to mental, but a brain is an organ.
Speaker 1: A brain is physical, and that concept of doing something
Speaker 1: physical to change your brain chemistry and that moment is
Speaker 1: really remarkable in terms of other things that are available.
Speaker 1: They are free. How much does exercise play a role
Speaker 1: in your life? And do you lean on anything else
Speaker 1: physical to try and help with the mental.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really look at mental health as like an ecosystem. Know,
Speaker 3: I don't get to choose how life changes. I only
Speaker 3: get to choose how it changes me. And I realized
Speaker 3: somewhere along the line that I think I was engaging
Speaker 3: and like healing as of elegant form of control. I
Speaker 3: thought maybe if I healed perfectly, I would never have
Speaker 3: anything bad happen to me again. And so I had
Speaker 3: to come to terms with the fact that, you know,
Speaker 3: life is destined to break all of our hearts. It's
Speaker 3: what we do with those pieces that make us extraordinary,
Speaker 3: and we have to live with the vulnerability of the
Speaker 3: fact that bad things are still going to happen in
Speaker 3: our lives. That doesn't mean you're mentally unhealthy. Like you
Speaker 3: should be sad when something sad happens, you know, that's health.
Speaker 3: You should be stressed when something stressful happens. It's about
Speaker 3: how quickly can you come back to regulation. That really
Speaker 3: is a sign of health. I forget your question. I
Speaker 3: got was.
Speaker 1: No, but it's all so fascinating. But I was asking
Speaker 1: about the role of exercise. Oh yeah, because I do
Speaker 1: think that is something that is available to everyone. But
Speaker 1: sometimes it's the last thing you want to do when
Speaker 1: you feel stressed, or when you're in a shame spiral
Speaker 1: or having a panic attack.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I love to have many, many tools for
Speaker 3: any given problem. So like for a panic attack, ice
Speaker 3: cubes works, peppermint will scent, that type of strong scent
Speaker 3: will work. Reading something sometimes ice cubes don't work. Sometimes
Speaker 3: forcing myself to read works. So you want multiple tools
Speaker 3: if you can to handle a problem. Exercise is an
Speaker 3: amazing tool to have in your arsenal. Cold showers are
Speaker 3: really good to have because that stops ruminating thoughts. So
Speaker 3: we want to arm ourselves with a multitude, you know,
Speaker 3: of tools, because at different times you're gonna have to
Speaker 3: experiment and see what works.
Speaker 1: That's very cool, And you just mentioned something the spiraling thoughts,
Speaker 1: and you know we have you know, we have immersed
Speaker 1: ourselves in reading a lot of self help books, a
Speaker 1: lot of philosophers. But what is your go to and
Speaker 1: where are you in that journey with not you don't
Speaker 1: want to control your thoughts, but managing them or recognizing them,
Speaker 1: acknowledging them, and and shifting gears. That's I think one
Speaker 1: of the toughest things for a lot of us is
Speaker 1: just not getting into that negative thought pattern, or at
Speaker 1: least recognizing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the number one most important thing we
Speaker 3: can invest in is cultivating awareness, learning in real time
Speaker 3: to be consciously present. I mean, the word mindful of
Speaker 3: such a weird word to me. It just means being
Speaker 3: consciously present. I'm able to be consciously present, and that
Speaker 3: puts me in a position to respond to my life
Speaker 3: in a healthy way, hopefully. And so it's noticing I'm
Speaker 3: getting agitated earlier and earlier and earlier.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I used to wake up after a panic attack and
Speaker 3: then I sort of have awareness during it, and then
Speaker 3: I'd start to notice it was coming on, but I
Speaker 3: couldn't stop it. And I finally cultivated enough awareness to
Speaker 3: go I am starting to feel triggered in enough time
Speaker 3: that I can actually intervene. So I think raised learning
Speaker 3: to like invest in being present is probably the safest
Speaker 3: position we can be, and that's how to give yourself
Speaker 3: a emotional safety.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how many hours of sleep do you get to night.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I'm the worst sleeper. That's really where
Speaker 3: my anxiety like manifest at night. I get like I rock,
Speaker 3: I like I totally justsregulate, like right before bed. I
Speaker 3: don't know why I've been this way in my whole life.
Speaker 3: I've really been working on sleep, you know, to take
Speaker 3: it really seriously into like I have to shut down,
Speaker 3: like really really at night, Like I have to shut
Speaker 3: everything down by like no text after five O. My
Speaker 3: life down by around seven, so that oh, by ten,
Speaker 3: my nervous system's going to cooperate with them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other night, we were working all the way until
Speaker 1: eight pm. We try to go to bed around eight
Speaker 1: thirty nine, and I was I had insomnia the entire night.
Speaker 1: I was like, I know it was because we were
Speaker 1: on our computers engaged. My brain was firing until eight pm.
Speaker 1: It was no bueno. So I know, I was like,
Speaker 1: I have got to make a better boundary there in
Speaker 1: my life about shutting things down because your brain is
Speaker 1: still going and you can't turn it off.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're metabolizing our thoughts, you know. Our thoughts have
Speaker 3: a neural chemical reaction or body It is either excitatory
Speaker 3: or calming neural chemicals one of those two things. You know,
Speaker 3: all of our experiences are giving us neuro chemical experiences
Speaker 3: that our body has to deal with. It's so interconnected.
Speaker 3: So like another tool that's really helped me as I've
Speaker 3: learned to look at my anxiety as an ally the
Speaker 3: same way like if I ate bad chicken and I
Speaker 3: got food poisoning me, throwing up isn't the problem me
Speaker 3: learning to not eat bad chicken is the problem. And
Speaker 3: so your anxiety is sort of like it's a side
Speaker 3: effect of consuming a thought, a feeling, or an action
Speaker 3: that doesn't agree with you. And so I learned to
Speaker 3: make my anxiety was like my best friend. I realized.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, this is how I'm going to
Speaker 3: know what I'm consuming that doesn't agree with me. And
Speaker 3: it became like a map for me, and I stopped
Speaker 3: trying to push it away and instead would get really
Speaker 3: curious and be like, Okay, what was I just thinking?
Speaker 3: What was I just feeling? What was I just doing?
Speaker 1: That is really really cool. How much does music play
Speaker 1: in your life now? Today?
Speaker 3: I write for myself all the time. I don't tour.
Speaker 3: I've never touring is hard for me you know, you
Speaker 3: talk about like anxiety and not sleeping, and you put
Speaker 3: me on like a moving vehicle all night long. That's
Speaker 3: rattling down the road. It's like a recipe for disaster. Sadly,
Speaker 3: for me, my career would have been very different if
Speaker 3: I could sleep on the tour bus. But for me,
Speaker 3: writing has always been my medicine, you know, whether it's
Speaker 3: songs or poems or whatever, just reflections. I write a
Speaker 3: lot and I paint a lot, like I'm doing a
Speaker 3: lot of visual art now and it's very uh yeah,
Speaker 3: it's healing. Arts are healing.
Speaker 1: And do you have I know you you've already reached
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of fame, and we already discussed what that
Speaker 1: was like. What do you do you have specific goals
Speaker 1: not just about obviously, not just about like fame or
Speaker 1: any sort of monetary reward, but what are your goals
Speaker 1: going forward now? Even from a from a work life standpoint,
Speaker 1: what do you have in mind?
Speaker 3: You know, the beginning of my career, I was very
Speaker 3: very lucky to do something I loved at a high level,
Speaker 3: and I did it from a state of depletion and
Speaker 3: exhaustion and trauma, and so getting to be fifty and
Speaker 3: engage with art and see what I'm capable of, Like
Speaker 3: I'm doing a lot of sculpture and visual art, and
Speaker 3: to challenge myself to get a certain level of work
Speaker 3: out of myself, but doing it from a place of
Speaker 3: fullness and a place of rest. It's really a privilege.
Speaker 3: You know, very few people get the chance to have
Speaker 3: a do over in their life, if you will, and
Speaker 3: I think that's really you know, healing is hard work,
Speaker 3: but it puts you in a position to have a
Speaker 3: different life, and that's really an amazing thing.
Speaker 1: You seem really at peace and you seem really joyful.
Speaker 1: That's the goal, right.
Speaker 3: It is the goal. Yeah, And it's it's interesting because
Speaker 3: you can't get happy, you know, when you're unhappy, you
Speaker 3: can't just get happy. You can choose to do things
Speaker 3: that do bring you joy, and that's an actionable thing.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: So empowering. And this has been such a well, this
Speaker 1: has been an education in a conversation for both of
Speaker 1: us and hopefully for everyone listening. So thank you for
Speaker 1: all the work you do in this field. And I
Speaker 1: mean you've lived it. You don't just talk it, you
Speaker 1: walk it, and we appreciate I mean, I want to
Speaker 1: go back and listen to this podcast so I can
Speaker 1: take notes this time, because I wanted to really be
Speaker 1: engaged and listen to you. But you had so many
Speaker 1: incredible things to say, and just you're a beautiful soul.
Speaker 1: Thank you for being here, thank you for being on
Speaker 1: the podcast, and thank you for everything you do.
Speaker 3: It'd be so fun if I can get I don't
Speaker 3: know if you guys did travel ever, but if we're
Speaker 3: doing the summit in Vegas, the Mental Health Summit, I
Speaker 3: find that, like in philanthropy, there's so many silos and
Speaker 3: not everybody knows what everybody else is doing. I just
Speaker 3: heard an incredible talk about the effect that how depression
Speaker 3: can be passed through bacteria, so like kissing can actually
Speaker 3: like if you're kissing a depressed person, they're learning. I know,
Speaker 3: isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2: So much is making sense now, That's why I feel
Speaker 2: bad every time.
Speaker 3: Anyway, there's really interesting things where we're learning, even just
Speaker 3: like with limes disease and certain viral and you know
Speaker 3: immune responses are affecting mental health and that it isn't
Speaker 3: just in your mind, it's this very physiological thing. And
Speaker 3: so the summit's designed to bring leaders who are working
Speaker 3: in these really specific, very innovative areas together so that
Speaker 3: we can learn to help us be better advocates for ourselves.
Speaker 3: And then the awards show is it's just shaping up
Speaker 3: really well. It's a lot of really amazing entertainers and
Speaker 3: it's nicely able to honor people that care about the
Speaker 3: space and are working hard in it.
Speaker 2: You had us at Vegas. Chill us an absolute pleasure,
Speaker 2: haven't you, and we hope to see you very soon,
Speaker 2: maybe out in the Nevada desert.