WEBVTT - Bill Weld: The Libertarian Contender 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.119 It's hard to believe that it was eight years ago 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.959 this week when I did perhaps one of the most 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:17.000 important interviews of my career. That was when I sat 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.800 down with Governor Sarah Palin, who was here in New 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:24.400 York City for the UN General Assembly because she was 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.240 running for Vice President of the United States. As we remember, 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.320 she was John McCain's running mate, and she had done 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.840 a few sit down interviews actually too, but had really 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:40.040 limited them to major network interviews. So this was a 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:42.840 very big deal for me because it was a big 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:47.040 opportunity to sort of peel the layers of the onion 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:53.519 and discover what made Sarah Palin tick. And I couldn't 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.840 have done it without the help of my trustee colleague, 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:01.440 Brian Goldsmith. Brian is one of the martest guys I know. 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:05.560 He's sort of my consigulary. Did I say that right, Brian? 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:10.240 Sigiliary See, I have to ask Brian everything. What where 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:14.080 would I be without him? I've just seen The Godfather 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:17.280 too many times. He's more You're more of a godson 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:20.119 than a godfather because you're only thirty four years old. 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:24.000 Let's be honest, Brian, did you realize that it was 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:27.720 eight years ago this week when we actually well I 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.399 actually you were in the room where it happened, as 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:35.559 they said in Hamilton's, and sat down and interviewed Governor 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.200 Sarah Palin. I didn't realize it was eight years ago 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:40.800 this week until you mentioned it a few minutes ago. 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.959 Of course, that interview gets mentioned all the time. I 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.600 think it's probably one of the two most significant political 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:52.200 interviews ever done on television, the other being wait, what's 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:56.360 the other Brian Roger MUD's infamous interview of Ted Kennedy 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.919 in which he couldn't answer the question very complicated question 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:04.480 why are you running for president? The question something wasn't it? 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.400 It was. The questions were a little more nuanced and 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:12.880 complicated for Governor Palin. But what struck me in the 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:17.400 aftermath of that interview, considering all the criticism that she got, 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.200 is that not a single big name Republican, not a 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:25.800 single McCain aid or advisor, said to you any of 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.720 these questions were unfair or unwarranted. It was really all 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:34.800 about her answers. She kind of buried herself as a 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.960 national political candidate in a single interview, which was a 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:42.640 pretty remarkable thing to watch. Let's take our listeners behind 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.200 the scenes a little bit, because we spent many days 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.640 in what we call in my apartment, my daughters and 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.720 I our red room. Now listeners don't think it's like 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.200 the red room of pain in fifty Shades of Gray. 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.600 It's anything, but it happens to be a dense slash 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.760 library ray that I painted this kind of not very 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.600 nice shade of kind of rose. When I bought this 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:11.040 apartment after my husband passed away in nine I wanted 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.400 this to be a happy place to raise my girls, 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:15.920 who were only six and two at the time, and 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.480 so Brian, we spent a lot of time in that room, 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:23.040 really going through the kinds of questions we thought would 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.240 be important to ask Governor Palent And I think you 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.119 and I, what do you remember from those days other 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.280 than you couldn't wait to get out of my apartment 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:37.440 wanting to open the window to that library fresh It 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.200 was only it's only on the second floor, so good 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:46.120 luck with that. I remember the two of us thinking, uh, 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:50.040 this is somebody who only had been a governor for 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.440 about eighteen months at the time. Before that was a 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.640 small town mayor, and here she was in a position 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:00.360 to be one heart beat away from the most powerful 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.360 office on Earth, and so we didn't want to hold 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.360 her to an artificially high standard or to a different standard, 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:09.640 but we did want to hold her to the same 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:13.960 standard as other people who had sought that office before. 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.880 We wanted to give our viewers who didn't know much 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.520 about Sarah Palin, a sense of of who she was, 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:27.080 what she believed, and how she would approach this extraordinarily 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.520 important job. And we we divvied up the interview between 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:36.799 foreign policy questions, economic policy questions, and questions about social issues. 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:39.640 So the first one was really focused on foreign policy 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.839 and economic issues. And then later I did a second 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:47.520 interview in Ohio when she was there for a campaign appearance, 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.240 and that's when I asked that question that seems to 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.000 be so remembered in this interview. Despite the fact that 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.680 we talked about Iran and nuclear weapons, we talked about taxes, 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:00.880 we talked about all kinds of issues. We were walking 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.120 and getting what's called b roll to cover the interview, 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.359 and that's when I asked her, when it came to 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.599 her world views, what newspapers and magazines had she read 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:13.200 on a regular basis that helped sort of shape her perspective, 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.200 and that's when she said, I were all most of them, 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.360 again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media, 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:22.840 like we I mean specifically, I'm curious that you know 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.159 all of them, any of them that have been in 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.280 front of me over all these years. Um, I have them. 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:34.320 I have a vast variety of sources where we get 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:37.640 to our news to Alaska isn't a foreign country where 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.640 it's kind of suggested, it seems like, wow, how could 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.200 you keep in touch with with the rest of Washington. 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:45.240 Do you see maybe thinking and doing when you live 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.000 up there Alaska? Believe me, Alaska is like a Mike 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:52.120 And it's funny, Katie. I remember exactly how you thought 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:56.800 of that question. We were on her campaign plane, UM, 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.200 flying with her to that event in Ohio, and we 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.520 could see into the first class cabin where Palin and 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:07.080 her aids were sitting, and we could see her reading 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.920 the New York Times. And I remember you're saying, Oh, 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.400 that's interesting. You sort of wouldn't expect her to read 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.760 the New York Times necessarily because she was and is 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.000 a very conservative politician. I wonder what else she reads? 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:23.440 Would that be an interesting question? And I don't remember that. 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.640 I don't even remember that that conversation, Brian, I remember that, 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:29.600 and I remember we didn't even write it down as 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:31.800 part of the written questions because we just thought it 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:37.560 wouldn't yield a particularly interesting answer. Um, And so you 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:39.960 just threw it in as part of what we call 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.120 the walk and talk, not thinking that we would. I mean, 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.160 I imagine you didn't think we would even use the 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.320 audio of it. Yeah, I I wasn't sure. And it 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:52.760 was interesting because I think her her aids realized that 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.320 it was not going well. And you actually saw someone 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:01.040 emailing something on their BlackBerry what was that? And I 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.600 did during the very first interview you conducted with her 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:07.560 in New York during u N Week, we were in 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.720 a hotel room and it was very kind of close 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:14.520 quarters along the side of that room while you were 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.920 conducting the interview, and I peered over in a nosy way, 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:23.400 and I saw what a very senior McCain aid was 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:27.240 typing on his BlackBerry. I think to Steve Schmidt, if 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:31.480 I remember correctly, who was running the campaign, and he 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:40.600 said disaster, disaster expletive, So they knew, they knew that 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.080 it was bad. I think we knew that it was bad. 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:47.320 I don't think any of us knew how iconic and 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.840 damaging the interview would be and how it would resonate 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.360 even all these years later. I think people stop you 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:59.520 to mention that interview more than any other, uh, any 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.080 other work you've done if if well, that that and 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.480 my that and my colonoscopy. This was just a different 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:10.240 kind of colonoscopy. Bryan. By the way, By the way, 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:14.120 you know, I wasn't sure how this interview would be 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.720 interpreted or received by the general public. I thought those 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:24.000 who liked Governor Palin would like her more because her authentic, 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.960 kind of homespun style, and I thought those who disliked 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:32.600 her would dislike her even more. What I didn't realize 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:37.000 was this wide swath of undecided voters, what kind of 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.840 impact it would have on them in terms of their 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.920 comfort level supporting someone who seemed to be out of 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.439 her depth when it came to major policy issues. Well, 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:51.000 one thing that interview showed loud and clear, Brian, is 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:57.319 that vice presidential candidates can make or break a campaign. Usually, 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.839 usually the rule is nobody votes for president, but sometimes 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.280 they do, or sometimes they vote against somebody's choice. For 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:08.679 vice president. And there is evidence that Palin hurt McCain, 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:10.680 but I think you were just about to do a 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:16.680 wonderful transition to art. That's okay. Bill Weld is running 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.559 for vice president. He is an old political hand, or 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:24.120 a political hand of long standing UM Governor Weld was 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.720 a two time governor of the state of Massachusetts, and 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:31.040 in nineties he lost a Senate race to John Kerry. 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:34.040 Then he was nominated by Bill Clinton to be ambassador 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.520 to Mexico. In late May. Our guests in mid May 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:42.040 May seventeen, to be exact, Gary Johnson named Bill Weld 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:46.280 as his running mate for the Libertarian ticket for president 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.319 of the United States. And Bill Weld is here to 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.880 talk about that. Hi, Governor, how are you, Katie. It's 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:56.080 a great pleasure. Thanks for having me. Well, this is 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.640 a very exciting time for you. But the clock is 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.520 tick game. What the hell are you doing this for? 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:06.040 Governor Weld. You know I have a bad character, I 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.200 guess because I really enjoy this stuff, and this year, 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.240 of all years, to have a chance to participate in 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.120 that with a guy I've known for a long time, 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.160 Governor Gary Johnson. He and I overlapped as governors and 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.920 think the world of and we have very similar backgrounds, 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:26.480 you know, fiscally conservative, socially inclusive and uh, you know, 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:30.040 the two establishment party candidates are leaving a little bit 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.520 of room in the middle for an alternative. A matter 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.920 of fact, that's an understatement, kind of a six lane highway. Well, 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:37.680 we're going to get into sort of a lot of 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.200 the issues and your perspective on this campaign in a moment, 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.240 but I want listeners to have a better idea of 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.800 who you are and why you're here. As Admiral Stockdale 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.520 famously cent during one of those debates. Um, you may 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.719 not be originally from Boston, but I think you're kind 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:57.560 of the ultimate Boston Brahmin, wouldn't you say so? I 0:10:57.600 --> 0:10:59.720 don't know about that. I was raised in Long Island, 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.840 New arc and uh went to school in Massachusetts, never 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:07.360 really left, but my family was from Massachusetts on on 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.400 both sides up until the nineteenth century. Yeah, I think 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:14.320 that's kind of an understatement. Your ancestor, I've read Edmund 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:18.840 Weld was among the earliest students ever at Harvard College 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:24.599 class of sixteen fifty, where two buildings and two professorships 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:28.079 are named for your family. Wasn't Edman Weld the one 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.760 who was expelled for stealing horses. There was there was 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.800 a sheep in there. I I read something about that. 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.240 I didn't know what farm animals he got into trouble for, though. Well, 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:42.320 I was attacked by the local uh Irish Senate president 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:46.680 who gave St. Patrick's Day breakfast for my ancestors having 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.320 come over on the Mayflower. And I said, no, that's 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:51.880 not true at all. Uh They sent the servants over 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.120 to get the cottage ready for them, and after that, 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.280 After that, I didn't hear anything more much about that issue. 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.240 They just thought that was so funny. Well, and most 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:02.200 politicians tried to claim to have been born in a 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.800 in a log cabin they built themselves. So I think 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.120 your your honesty was pretty refreshing there. It wasn't even honest, 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.160 but I got away with it. Were you? Kennedy? Ask 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:15.000 in terms of politics being ingrained in you from a 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.400 very early age, how did you get into this old 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.320 crazy business? Well, you know, I didn't think I was 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.120 gonna be uh in politics growing up. I thought I 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:26.280 was gonna be a Latin teacher. But it is true 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:30.840 that my father was active in Republican politics in eastern 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.240 Long Island, and uh, you know he took me to 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.360 meet people and go to Rally's age, you know, fourteen fifteen. 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.720 So to that extent, uh, I knew that politics was 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.040 considered to be a noble calling in our family put 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.640 it that way from both my parents. And you got 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:50.320 your start in politics as a lawyer, not as an 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:54.640 elected official. You were appointed, as I recalled by President 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.040 Reagan to be U S Attorney for Massachusetts. What was 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.800 that experience like, Well, that was, to effect, possibly the 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.439 best job I ever had. That's the federal prosecutor from Massachusetts. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.600 And I went on from there to be head of 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.640 the Criminal Division of the Justice Department in Washington. So 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:13.640 I had a lot of law enforcement experience under Reagan. 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.800 My first job in quote politics close quote was actually 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.040 working as a staffer for a center Javits of New York, 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.120 writing foreign policy speeches. That's before I even went to 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.960 law school. And my second job was sharing in office 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:30.800 with a young Yale law grad named Hillary Rodham on 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:35.240 the Nixon impeachment, the House Judiciary Judiciary staff, and we 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.320 literally wrote the book or the pamphlet on what constitutes 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.640 grounds for impeachment of a president, and whatever happened to her, 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.199 she's gone on to great things. But I'll tell you 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.320 a funny story. So twenty five years after that, we 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:54.360 did that in seventy three, seventy four. So I think January, 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.240 I get a call from John Podesta, who's in the 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.560 White House as chief of staff at that and he says, 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:03.520 looks like they're going to proceed against my guy. And 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.080 we've looked around, uh, and it seems that there are 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.200 only two people in the country who really know a 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.440 lot a lot about what the law of impeachment is, 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.680 and the other one is very much disqualified by interest. 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:15.720 So you're going to have to testify as an expert 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.640 witness on the law, which I did. And what did 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.880 you think of Hillary Rodham back in the day? What 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.040 were your impressions of her as a young lawyer. Well, 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.800 she's obviously smart and disciplined, and I've over the years 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.200 always described her as a great kid. And the truth 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.000 is we were both kids then, we were both in 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.600 our twenties. What what sort of stood out to you, 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:38.880 I mean, other than the fact that she was smart, 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.800 Can you give us more insights into sort of how 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:46.640 she operated, her character, her sense of humor her whatever. 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.240 I would say both good. Both character and sense of 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:53.800 humor good. And Uh, she presented as a straight not 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:55.840 as a Nixon hater. There were some people on that 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.480 staff who just couldn't wait to bring down Dick Nixon 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.600 and perhaps shouldn't have been on that staff. But no, 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.600 I would say she was pretty straightforward. You then moved 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:10.240 home to Boston, following your stint in the Reagan Justice Department, 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.320 and ran for governor as a Republican in a state 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.240 where I think fewer than of the registered voters at 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:20.120 the time were Republicans. What was that like? Well, I 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.560 was I was beaten very badly at the state Republican 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.800 convention uh in the spring of nineteen ninety and just 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:31.840 got lucky. Uh. In September, the race kind of broke 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.200 my way, so I won the primary by a little bit. Uh. 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.800 And then the Democratic Party split right down the middle, 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.880 and Uh, the fellow who had beaten me for attorney 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:47.440 general twelve years earlier, very badly beaten me, uh did 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.240 not get the nomination, and John Silver, who was the 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.080 president of Boston University did. He was ahead of me 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:54.880 most most of the way, but then he had a 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:59.600 couple of blow ups on TV with Natalie Jacobson and 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.320 then Leslie Stall in the closing ten days of the campaign. 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.200 And I think we won by one point something like that. 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.360 But it was class. I remember interviewing him when I 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.760 was at NBC and he was running, uh, and and 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:17.040 I remember how ornery he was and how what a 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.920 short fuse he had, and it didn't really work well 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.760 for him when it came to talking to reporters or 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.640 doing interviews. You know, in a way he was very good, uh, 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.320 very good copy was h uh. And we you know, 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:32.840 we we were too people who were not afraid of 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.040 the microphone. Can you describe a little bit the experience 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.360 of being governor of Massachusetts, being a Republican who was 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:43.360 successful in an overwhelmingly democratic place. Well, I mean it 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:47.520 was a tremendously enjoyable experience. I had very good staff, 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:52.040 led by Charlie Baker, who is now the governor of Massachusetts. 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:56.280 He was my secretary in both health and then later finance. Uh. 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.480 And I brought a bunch of people over from the U. S. 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:04.400 Attorney's Office who were very experienced investigators, prosecutors. Uh. Nobody 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.560 came near us with any improper suggestions because they knew 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:11.440 we were all federal prosecutors, so that was a plus. 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.400 We were able to cut taxes twenty one times and 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.560 never have a tax increase. And that you asked about 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.879 the first term and the experience, that's that's the dominant 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.680 feature of the first term is taxes went down, spending 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.840 went down. We actually cut spending in real dollars. And 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.800 when the small and medium business community saw that they 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.320 had the confidence to add jobs. So we went from 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.920 being the state with the highest unemployment rate among the 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:42.320 then eleven industrial states in the country at the beginning 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.040 of my first term to having the lowest unemployment rate 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.040 among those eleven states at the end of my first term. 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.400 That's where the big reelect came from. It was the economy. 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:53.760 It wasn't because we were such great guys. Let's talk 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:59.520 about you say that you agree with the Governor Johnson 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:04.359 in terms of you'd like to limit foreign intervention for 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:09.160 regime change, But are you really comfortable as a libertarian 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:13.879 or you are more libertarian ish? No, I'm I'm running 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.240 as myself. I'm not running with a copy of the 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.560 Libertarian platform in my pocket anymore than I ran with 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.160 a copy of the Republican Platform in my pocket when 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.640 I was running as a Republican. I mean I never 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.760 bought into the Republican social policies. They were you know, 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.639 they were anti abortion. I was pro choice. They were 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.240 so so at best about gays and lesbians. I was 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.040 out there for the entire decade of the nineties on 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.920 gay and lesbian issues, promoting civil rights, promoting marriage equality. 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:45.080 Um you know I I I also think that we 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.520 have to be darn sure that we maintain and demonstrate 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.959 military supremacy for the United States and both naval and 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.159 air power, because I know that people all over the 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.080 world look at that like hawks. I know you said 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.520 that you don't follow the Libertarian platform to the letter. 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:03.520 On the other hand, you're running mate. Gary Johnson has 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.720 taken a number of positions personally where there seems to 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:10.440 be some difference between the two of you. Can I 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.800 kind of go through Can we go through a few 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:18.320 Johnson's positions and get your views? Um in he advocated 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:22.199 cutting the federal government nearly in half at cut Do 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.760 you think that that's realistic? I think we're aiming at 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.919 now and I often have said before I teamed up 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.360 with Gary Johnson. I've never seen a layer of government 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.959 that didn't have ten or excess spending in it. And 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.399 I'm not talking about the words people always use waste, fraud, 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.360 and abuse. I'm talking about programs that shouldn't be there 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.600 in the first place, and ill conceived programs like what 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.840 bureaucracy that nobody can tell you quite what they do. 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:50.840 I mean, I think there's probably even more of that 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.520 at the federal level than there is at the state level. 0:19:53.600 --> 0:20:00.200 But what who's head? Uh? No, my my, uh. The 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.119 guy I follow here is actually a Democrat named David 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.080 Osborne who wrote a book called Laboratories of Democracy about 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:10.200 how the states can experiment with things. And his recommendation, 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.160 which I've always followed, and I think probably Charlie Baker 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.840 after me has followed, is to zero base the budget. 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.880 You you don't assume that you have last year's appropriation 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.000 plus five percent, which is what they assume in Washington. 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.600 You assume every account is zero starting off, and then 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.200 you look at the results of last year, and if 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:32.639 the result of this preventive health program was marvelous outcomes 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.840 and saved lots of money and improve people's lives, you 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.520 might multiply that appropriation by twelve. You know, none of 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.320 this tem percent across the board stuff. Then you get 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:48.480 to bureaucracy, and it could be the Department of Education, 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.600 it could be the Department of Commerce, it could be 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:55.800 Homeland Security. Uh, you know, uh, we we have our thoughts, 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.680 but you want to examine them and that that might 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.400 be a zero. So that's that's how you really get 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:05.600 budget savings. And I did as governor in Massachusetts cut 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:10.439 spending in real dollars from year to year at at 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.199 the beginning when I took office, and each of Gary 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:17.120 Johnson and Bill wild were rated the most fiscally conservative 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.119 governor in the United States back in the nineties. And 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:22.919 that's something that's got to be done now in Washington. 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.399 And both the establishment party candidates have said, oh no, 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.280 we're gonna not gonna touch entitlements. We're gonna bigger this, 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.800 bigger that. Um, we're not so sure about that. Let 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:35.000 me go down this laundry list. If I could governor 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:36.840 maybe you can just give me a year or nay 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:39.760 a thumbs upper thumbs down on some of Gary Johnson's 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:43.760 positions marijuana legalization, yea or nay. Yeah, I'm okay, with 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.560 that treated like alcohol, I think alcohol is probably more 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:52.320 more harmful than marijuana. Deep six common Core, Oh very 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.360 much so. And the reason I say that is, Uh, 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.760 we put in high stakes tests in fourth, eighth, and 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:02.040 tenth grade in Massachuset assets and after they kicked in, 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:04.760 Massachusetts was number one in the country and reading in 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.960 math every single year. And if we went to common 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:10.560 Core and mass it would be a real downturn. You know, 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.200 if I had been the governor of Mississippi or Louisiana, 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.840 I might I might feel differently, but I don't want 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:18.400 to be part of a race to the bottom when 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:22.720 I'm on top. No government involvement in fighting climate change. 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:26.160 Something tells me, Governor, you're not that jiggy with that. Yeah, right, 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:28.640 that would be That would be correct. Now. I've been 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:32.080 quite active in the environmental area, and I would say 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:34.400 to Ed Crane, who is the head of the Cato Institute, 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:36.000 even in the old days when I went out to 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:39.159 his annual meetings, the one part where I, you know, 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:44.119 get off the bus, uh, is environmental enforcement. Just because 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:47.160 the the economies of scale are so great, you cannot 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:51.320 rely on the market of individuals and businesses to protect 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:56.840 us all from environmental degradation, and Gary agrees with that. 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:00.840 He says, look, the purpose of government, A major purpose 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:04.160 of government is to restrain people from injuring each other. 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:07.439 And if if it's you know, one polluter polluting a river, okay, 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.640 that's very obvious. But if it's millions of polluters polluting 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:19.080 the atmosphere, it's the same principle. No demandatory vaccines. Well, um, 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:23.639 you know I don't have flu shots myself. I represented 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:27.080 the talking about vaccines for children. Governor, Oh, you mean 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:32.200 like polio, and that sure, absolutely, that's that's that's fine, discretionary. 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:37.040 There shouldn't be mandatory vaccines for children, for babies, for infants. No, 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:40.040 if you mean polio tetan is that sort of thing though, 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:44.159