Speaker 1: It's hard to believe that it was eight years ago
Speaker 1: this week when I did perhaps one of the most
Speaker 1: important interviews of my career. That was when I sat
Speaker 1: down with Governor Sarah Palin, who was here in New
Speaker 1: York City for the UN General Assembly because she was
Speaker 1: running for Vice President of the United States. As we remember,
Speaker 1: she was John McCain's running mate, and she had done
Speaker 1: a few sit down interviews actually too, but had really
Speaker 1: limited them to major network interviews. So this was a
Speaker 1: very big deal for me because it was a big
Speaker 1: opportunity to sort of peel the layers of the onion
Speaker 1: and discover what made Sarah Palin tick. And I couldn't
Speaker 1: have done it without the help of my trustee colleague,
Speaker 1: Brian Goldsmith. Brian is one of the martest guys I know.
Speaker 1: He's sort of my consigulary. Did I say that right, Brian?
Speaker 1: Sigiliary See, I have to ask Brian everything. What where
Speaker 1: would I be without him? I've just seen The Godfather
Speaker 1: too many times. He's more You're more of a godson
Speaker 1: than a godfather because you're only thirty four years old.
Speaker 1: Let's be honest, Brian, did you realize that it was
Speaker 1: eight years ago this week when we actually well I
Speaker 1: actually you were in the room where it happened, as
Speaker 1: they said in Hamilton's, and sat down and interviewed Governor
Speaker 1: Sarah Palin. I didn't realize it was eight years ago
Speaker 1: this week until you mentioned it a few minutes ago.
Speaker 1: Of course, that interview gets mentioned all the time. I
Speaker 1: think it's probably one of the two most significant political
Speaker 1: interviews ever done on television, the other being wait, what's
Speaker 1: the other Brian Roger MUD's infamous interview of Ted Kennedy
Speaker 1: in which he couldn't answer the question very complicated question
Speaker 1: why are you running for president? The question something wasn't it?
Speaker 1: It was. The questions were a little more nuanced and
Speaker 1: complicated for Governor Palin. But what struck me in the
Speaker 1: aftermath of that interview, considering all the criticism that she got,
Speaker 1: is that not a single big name Republican, not a
Speaker 1: single McCain aid or advisor, said to you any of
Speaker 1: these questions were unfair or unwarranted. It was really all
Speaker 1: about her answers. She kind of buried herself as a
Speaker 1: national political candidate in a single interview, which was a
Speaker 1: pretty remarkable thing to watch. Let's take our listeners behind
Speaker 1: the scenes a little bit, because we spent many days
Speaker 1: in what we call in my apartment, my daughters and
Speaker 1: I our red room. Now listeners don't think it's like
Speaker 1: the red room of pain in fifty Shades of Gray.
Speaker 1: It's anything, but it happens to be a dense slash
Speaker 1: library ray that I painted this kind of not very
Speaker 1: nice shade of kind of rose. When I bought this
Speaker 1: apartment after my husband passed away in nine I wanted
Speaker 1: this to be a happy place to raise my girls,
Speaker 1: who were only six and two at the time, and
Speaker 1: so Brian, we spent a lot of time in that room,
Speaker 1: really going through the kinds of questions we thought would
Speaker 1: be important to ask Governor Palent And I think you
Speaker 1: and I, what do you remember from those days other
Speaker 1: than you couldn't wait to get out of my apartment
Speaker 1: wanting to open the window to that library fresh It
Speaker 1: was only it's only on the second floor, so good
Speaker 1: luck with that. I remember the two of us thinking, uh,
Speaker 1: this is somebody who only had been a governor for
Speaker 1: about eighteen months at the time. Before that was a
Speaker 1: small town mayor, and here she was in a position
Speaker 1: to be one heart beat away from the most powerful
Speaker 1: office on Earth, and so we didn't want to hold
Speaker 1: her to an artificially high standard or to a different standard,
Speaker 1: but we did want to hold her to the same
Speaker 1: standard as other people who had sought that office before.
Speaker 1: We wanted to give our viewers who didn't know much
Speaker 1: about Sarah Palin, a sense of of who she was,
Speaker 1: what she believed, and how she would approach this extraordinarily
Speaker 1: important job. And we we divvied up the interview between
Speaker 1: foreign policy questions, economic policy questions, and questions about social issues.
Speaker 1: So the first one was really focused on foreign policy
Speaker 1: and economic issues. And then later I did a second
Speaker 1: interview in Ohio when she was there for a campaign appearance,
Speaker 1: and that's when I asked that question that seems to
Speaker 1: be so remembered in this interview. Despite the fact that
Speaker 1: we talked about Iran and nuclear weapons, we talked about taxes,
Speaker 1: we talked about all kinds of issues. We were walking
Speaker 1: and getting what's called b roll to cover the interview,
Speaker 1: and that's when I asked her, when it came to
Speaker 1: her world views, what newspapers and magazines had she read
Speaker 1: on a regular basis that helped sort of shape her perspective,
Speaker 1: and that's when she said, I were all most of them,
Speaker 1: again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media,
Speaker 1: like we I mean specifically, I'm curious that you know
Speaker 1: all of them, any of them that have been in
Speaker 1: front of me over all these years. Um, I have them.
Speaker 1: I have a vast variety of sources where we get
Speaker 1: to our news to Alaska isn't a foreign country where
Speaker 1: it's kind of suggested, it seems like, wow, how could
Speaker 1: you keep in touch with with the rest of Washington.
Speaker 1: Do you see maybe thinking and doing when you live
Speaker 1: up there Alaska? Believe me, Alaska is like a Mike
Speaker 1: And it's funny, Katie. I remember exactly how you thought
Speaker 1: of that question. We were on her campaign plane, UM,
Speaker 1: flying with her to that event in Ohio, and we
Speaker 1: could see into the first class cabin where Palin and
Speaker 1: her aids were sitting, and we could see her reading
Speaker 1: the New York Times. And I remember you're saying, Oh,
Speaker 1: that's interesting. You sort of wouldn't expect her to read
Speaker 1: the New York Times necessarily because she was and is
Speaker 1: a very conservative politician. I wonder what else she reads?
Speaker 1: Would that be an interesting question? And I don't remember that.
Speaker 1: I don't even remember that that conversation, Brian, I remember that,
Speaker 1: and I remember we didn't even write it down as
Speaker 1: part of the written questions because we just thought it
Speaker 1: wouldn't yield a particularly interesting answer. Um, And so you
Speaker 1: just threw it in as part of what we call
Speaker 1: the walk and talk, not thinking that we would. I mean,
Speaker 1: I imagine you didn't think we would even use the
Speaker 1: audio of it. Yeah, I I wasn't sure. And it
Speaker 1: was interesting because I think her her aids realized that
Speaker 1: it was not going well. And you actually saw someone
Speaker 1: emailing something on their BlackBerry what was that? And I
Speaker 1: did during the very first interview you conducted with her
Speaker 1: in New York during u N Week, we were in
Speaker 1: a hotel room and it was very kind of close
Speaker 1: quarters along the side of that room while you were
Speaker 1: conducting the interview, and I peered over in a nosy way,
Speaker 1: and I saw what a very senior McCain aid was
Speaker 1: typing on his BlackBerry. I think to Steve Schmidt, if
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, who was running the campaign, and he
Speaker 1: said disaster, disaster expletive, So they knew, they knew that
Speaker 1: it was bad. I think we knew that it was bad.
Speaker 1: I don't think any of us knew how iconic and
Speaker 1: damaging the interview would be and how it would resonate
Speaker 1: even all these years later. I think people stop you
Speaker 1: to mention that interview more than any other, uh, any
Speaker 1: other work you've done if if well, that that and
Speaker 1: my that and my colonoscopy. This was just a different
Speaker 1: kind of colonoscopy. Bryan. By the way, By the way,
Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't sure how this interview would be
Speaker 1: interpreted or received by the general public. I thought those
Speaker 1: who liked Governor Palin would like her more because her authentic,
Speaker 1: kind of homespun style, and I thought those who disliked
Speaker 1: her would dislike her even more. What I didn't realize
Speaker 1: was this wide swath of undecided voters, what kind of
Speaker 1: impact it would have on them in terms of their
Speaker 1: comfort level supporting someone who seemed to be out of
Speaker 1: her depth when it came to major policy issues. Well,
Speaker 1: one thing that interview showed loud and clear, Brian, is
Speaker 1: that vice presidential candidates can make or break a campaign. Usually,
Speaker 1: usually the rule is nobody votes for president, but sometimes
Speaker 1: they do, or sometimes they vote against somebody's choice. For
Speaker 1: vice president. And there is evidence that Palin hurt McCain,
Speaker 1: but I think you were just about to do a
Speaker 1: wonderful transition to art. That's okay. Bill Weld is running
Speaker 1: for vice president. He is an old political hand, or
Speaker 1: a political hand of long standing UM Governor Weld was
Speaker 1: a two time governor of the state of Massachusetts, and
Speaker 1: in nineties he lost a Senate race to John Kerry.
Speaker 1: Then he was nominated by Bill Clinton to be ambassador
Speaker 1: to Mexico. In late May. Our guests in mid May
Speaker 1: May seventeen, to be exact, Gary Johnson named Bill Weld
Speaker 1: as his running mate for the Libertarian ticket for president
Speaker 1: of the United States. And Bill Weld is here to
Speaker 1: talk about that. Hi, Governor, how are you, Katie. It's
Speaker 1: a great pleasure. Thanks for having me. Well, this is
Speaker 1: a very exciting time for you. But the clock is
Speaker 1: tick game. What the hell are you doing this for?
Speaker 1: Governor Weld. You know I have a bad character, I
Speaker 1: guess because I really enjoy this stuff, and this year,
Speaker 1: of all years, to have a chance to participate in
Speaker 1: that with a guy I've known for a long time,
Speaker 1: Governor Gary Johnson. He and I overlapped as governors and
Speaker 1: think the world of and we have very similar backgrounds,
Speaker 1: you know, fiscally conservative, socially inclusive and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the two establishment party candidates are leaving a little bit
Speaker 1: of room in the middle for an alternative. A matter
Speaker 1: of fact, that's an understatement, kind of a six lane highway. Well,
Speaker 1: we're going to get into sort of a lot of
Speaker 1: the issues and your perspective on this campaign in a moment,
Speaker 1: but I want listeners to have a better idea of
Speaker 1: who you are and why you're here. As Admiral Stockdale
Speaker 1: famously cent during one of those debates. Um, you may
Speaker 1: not be originally from Boston, but I think you're kind
Speaker 1: of the ultimate Boston Brahmin, wouldn't you say so? I
Speaker 1: don't know about that. I was raised in Long Island,
Speaker 1: New arc and uh went to school in Massachusetts, never
Speaker 1: really left, but my family was from Massachusetts on on
Speaker 1: both sides up until the nineteenth century. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's kind of an understatement. Your ancestor, I've read Edmund
Speaker 1: Weld was among the earliest students ever at Harvard College
Speaker 1: class of sixteen fifty, where two buildings and two professorships
Speaker 1: are named for your family. Wasn't Edman Weld the one
Speaker 1: who was expelled for stealing horses. There was there was
Speaker 1: a sheep in there. I I read something about that.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what farm animals he got into trouble for, though. Well,
Speaker 1: I was attacked by the local uh Irish Senate president
Speaker 1: who gave St. Patrick's Day breakfast for my ancestors having
Speaker 1: come over on the Mayflower. And I said, no, that's
Speaker 1: not true at all. Uh They sent the servants over
Speaker 1: to get the cottage ready for them, and after that,
Speaker 1: After that, I didn't hear anything more much about that issue.
Speaker 1: They just thought that was so funny. Well, and most
Speaker 1: politicians tried to claim to have been born in a
Speaker 1: in a log cabin they built themselves. So I think
Speaker 1: your your honesty was pretty refreshing there. It wasn't even honest,
Speaker 1: but I got away with it. Were you? Kennedy? Ask
Speaker 1: in terms of politics being ingrained in you from a
Speaker 1: very early age, how did you get into this old
Speaker 1: crazy business? Well, you know, I didn't think I was
Speaker 1: gonna be uh in politics growing up. I thought I
Speaker 1: was gonna be a Latin teacher. But it is true
Speaker 1: that my father was active in Republican politics in eastern
Speaker 1: Long Island, and uh, you know he took me to
Speaker 1: meet people and go to Rally's age, you know, fourteen fifteen.
Speaker 1: So to that extent, uh, I knew that politics was
Speaker 1: considered to be a noble calling in our family put
Speaker 1: it that way from both my parents. And you got
Speaker 1: your start in politics as a lawyer, not as an
Speaker 1: elected official. You were appointed, as I recalled by President
Speaker 1: Reagan to be U S Attorney for Massachusetts. What was
Speaker 1: that experience like, Well, that was, to effect, possibly the
Speaker 1: best job I ever had. That's the federal prosecutor from Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: And I went on from there to be head of
Speaker 1: the Criminal Division of the Justice Department in Washington. So
Speaker 1: I had a lot of law enforcement experience under Reagan.
Speaker 1: My first job in quote politics close quote was actually
Speaker 1: working as a staffer for a center Javits of New York,
Speaker 1: writing foreign policy speeches. That's before I even went to
Speaker 1: law school. And my second job was sharing in office
Speaker 1: with a young Yale law grad named Hillary Rodham on
Speaker 1: the Nixon impeachment, the House Judiciary Judiciary staff, and we
Speaker 1: literally wrote the book or the pamphlet on what constitutes
Speaker 1: grounds for impeachment of a president, and whatever happened to her,
Speaker 1: she's gone on to great things. But I'll tell you
Speaker 1: a funny story. So twenty five years after that, we
Speaker 1: did that in seventy three, seventy four. So I think January,
Speaker 1: I get a call from John Podesta, who's in the
Speaker 1: White House as chief of staff at that and he says,
Speaker 1: looks like they're going to proceed against my guy. And
Speaker 1: we've looked around, uh, and it seems that there are
Speaker 1: only two people in the country who really know a
Speaker 1: lot a lot about what the law of impeachment is,
Speaker 1: and the other one is very much disqualified by interest.
Speaker 1: So you're going to have to testify as an expert
Speaker 1: witness on the law, which I did. And what did
Speaker 1: you think of Hillary Rodham back in the day? What
Speaker 1: were your impressions of her as a young lawyer. Well,
Speaker 1: she's obviously smart and disciplined, and I've over the years
Speaker 1: always described her as a great kid. And the truth
Speaker 1: is we were both kids then, we were both in
Speaker 1: our twenties. What what sort of stood out to you,
Speaker 1: I mean, other than the fact that she was smart,
Speaker 1: Can you give us more insights into sort of how
Speaker 1: she operated, her character, her sense of humor her whatever.
Speaker 1: I would say both good. Both character and sense of
Speaker 1: humor good. And Uh, she presented as a straight not
Speaker 1: as a Nixon hater. There were some people on that
Speaker 1: staff who just couldn't wait to bring down Dick Nixon
Speaker 1: and perhaps shouldn't have been on that staff. But no,
Speaker 1: I would say she was pretty straightforward. You then moved
Speaker 1: home to Boston, following your stint in the Reagan Justice Department,
Speaker 1: and ran for governor as a Republican in a state
Speaker 1: where I think fewer than of the registered voters at
Speaker 1: the time were Republicans. What was that like? Well, I
Speaker 1: was I was beaten very badly at the state Republican
Speaker 1: convention uh in the spring of nineteen ninety and just
Speaker 1: got lucky. Uh. In September, the race kind of broke
Speaker 1: my way, so I won the primary by a little bit. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then the Democratic Party split right down the middle,
Speaker 1: and Uh, the fellow who had beaten me for attorney
Speaker 1: general twelve years earlier, very badly beaten me, uh did
Speaker 1: not get the nomination, and John Silver, who was the
Speaker 1: president of Boston University did. He was ahead of me
Speaker 1: most most of the way, but then he had a
Speaker 1: couple of blow ups on TV with Natalie Jacobson and
Speaker 1: then Leslie Stall in the closing ten days of the campaign.
Speaker 1: And I think we won by one point something like that.
Speaker 1: But it was class. I remember interviewing him when I
Speaker 1: was at NBC and he was running, uh, and and
Speaker 1: I remember how ornery he was and how what a
Speaker 1: short fuse he had, and it didn't really work well
Speaker 1: for him when it came to talking to reporters or
Speaker 1: doing interviews. You know, in a way he was very good, uh,
Speaker 1: very good copy was h uh. And we you know,
Speaker 1: we we were too people who were not afraid of
Speaker 1: the microphone. Can you describe a little bit the experience
Speaker 1: of being governor of Massachusetts, being a Republican who was
Speaker 1: successful in an overwhelmingly democratic place. Well, I mean it
Speaker 1: was a tremendously enjoyable experience. I had very good staff,
Speaker 1: led by Charlie Baker, who is now the governor of Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: He was my secretary in both health and then later finance. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I brought a bunch of people over from the U. S.
Speaker 1: Attorney's Office who were very experienced investigators, prosecutors. Uh. Nobody
Speaker 1: came near us with any improper suggestions because they knew
Speaker 1: we were all federal prosecutors, so that was a plus.
Speaker 1: We were able to cut taxes twenty one times and
Speaker 1: never have a tax increase. And that you asked about
Speaker 1: the first term and the experience, that's that's the dominant
Speaker 1: feature of the first term is taxes went down, spending
Speaker 1: went down. We actually cut spending in real dollars. And
Speaker 1: when the small and medium business community saw that they
Speaker 1: had the confidence to add jobs. So we went from
Speaker 1: being the state with the highest unemployment rate among the
Speaker 1: then eleven industrial states in the country at the beginning
Speaker 1: of my first term to having the lowest unemployment rate
Speaker 1: among those eleven states at the end of my first term.
Speaker 1: That's where the big reelect came from. It was the economy.
Speaker 1: It wasn't because we were such great guys. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about you say that you agree with the Governor Johnson
Speaker 1: in terms of you'd like to limit foreign intervention for
Speaker 1: regime change, But are you really comfortable as a libertarian
Speaker 1: or you are more libertarian ish? No, I'm I'm running
Speaker 1: as myself. I'm not running with a copy of the
Speaker 1: Libertarian platform in my pocket anymore than I ran with
Speaker 1: a copy of the Republican Platform in my pocket when
Speaker 1: I was running as a Republican. I mean I never
Speaker 1: bought into the Republican social policies. They were you know,
Speaker 1: they were anti abortion. I was pro choice. They were
Speaker 1: so so at best about gays and lesbians. I was
Speaker 1: out there for the entire decade of the nineties on
Speaker 1: gay and lesbian issues, promoting civil rights, promoting marriage equality.
Speaker 1: Um you know I I I also think that we
Speaker 1: have to be darn sure that we maintain and demonstrate
Speaker 1: military supremacy for the United States and both naval and
Speaker 1: air power, because I know that people all over the
Speaker 1: world look at that like hawks. I know you said
Speaker 1: that you don't follow the Libertarian platform to the letter.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, you're running mate. Gary Johnson has
Speaker 1: taken a number of positions personally where there seems to
Speaker 1: be some difference between the two of you. Can I
Speaker 1: kind of go through Can we go through a few
Speaker 1: Johnson's positions and get your views? Um in he advocated
Speaker 1: cutting the federal government nearly in half at cut Do
Speaker 1: you think that that's realistic? I think we're aiming at
Speaker 1: now and I often have said before I teamed up
Speaker 1: with Gary Johnson. I've never seen a layer of government
Speaker 1: that didn't have ten or excess spending in it. And
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the words people always use waste, fraud,
Speaker 1: and abuse. I'm talking about programs that shouldn't be there
Speaker 1: in the first place, and ill conceived programs like what
Speaker 1: bureaucracy that nobody can tell you quite what they do.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's probably even more of that
Speaker 1: at the federal level than there is at the state level.
Speaker 1: But what who's head? Uh? No, my my, uh. The
Speaker 1: guy I follow here is actually a Democrat named David
Speaker 1: Osborne who wrote a book called Laboratories of Democracy about
Speaker 1: how the states can experiment with things. And his recommendation,
Speaker 1: which I've always followed, and I think probably Charlie Baker
Speaker 1: after me has followed, is to zero base the budget.
Speaker 1: You you don't assume that you have last year's appropriation
Speaker 1: plus five percent, which is what they assume in Washington.
Speaker 1: You assume every account is zero starting off, and then
Speaker 1: you look at the results of last year, and if
Speaker 1: the result of this preventive health program was marvelous outcomes
Speaker 1: and saved lots of money and improve people's lives, you
Speaker 1: might multiply that appropriation by twelve. You know, none of
Speaker 1: this tem percent across the board stuff. Then you get
Speaker 1: to bureaucracy, and it could be the Department of Education,
Speaker 1: it could be the Department of Commerce, it could be
Speaker 1: Homeland Security. Uh, you know, uh, we we have our thoughts,
Speaker 1: but you want to examine them and that that might
Speaker 1: be a zero. So that's that's how you really get
Speaker 1: budget savings. And I did as governor in Massachusetts cut
Speaker 1: spending in real dollars from year to year at at
Speaker 1: the beginning when I took office, and each of Gary
Speaker 1: Johnson and Bill wild were rated the most fiscally conservative
Speaker 1: governor in the United States back in the nineties. And
Speaker 1: that's something that's got to be done now in Washington.
Speaker 1: And both the establishment party candidates have said, oh no,
Speaker 1: we're gonna not gonna touch entitlements. We're gonna bigger this,
Speaker 1: bigger that. Um, we're not so sure about that. Let
Speaker 1: me go down this laundry list. If I could governor
Speaker 1: maybe you can just give me a year or nay
Speaker 1: a thumbs upper thumbs down on some of Gary Johnson's
Speaker 1: positions marijuana legalization, yea or nay. Yeah, I'm okay, with
Speaker 1: that treated like alcohol, I think alcohol is probably more
Speaker 1: more harmful than marijuana. Deep six common Core, Oh very
Speaker 1: much so. And the reason I say that is, Uh,
Speaker 1: we put in high stakes tests in fourth, eighth, and
Speaker 1: tenth grade in Massachuset assets and after they kicked in,
Speaker 1: Massachusetts was number one in the country and reading in
Speaker 1: math every single year. And if we went to common
Speaker 1: Core and mass it would be a real downturn. You know,
Speaker 1: if I had been the governor of Mississippi or Louisiana,
Speaker 1: I might I might feel differently, but I don't want
Speaker 1: to be part of a race to the bottom when
Speaker 1: I'm on top. No government involvement in fighting climate change.
Speaker 1: Something tells me, Governor, you're not that jiggy with that. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: that would be That would be correct. Now. I've been
Speaker 1: quite active in the environmental area, and I would say
Speaker 1: to Ed Crane, who is the head of the Cato Institute,
Speaker 1: even in the old days when I went out to
Speaker 1: his annual meetings, the one part where I, you know,
Speaker 1: get off the bus, uh, is environmental enforcement. Just because
Speaker 1: the the economies of scale are so great, you cannot
Speaker 1: rely on the market of individuals and businesses to protect
Speaker 1: us all from environmental degradation, and Gary agrees with that.
Speaker 1: He says, look, the purpose of government, A major purpose
Speaker 1: of government is to restrain people from injuring each other.
Speaker 1: And if if it's you know, one polluter polluting a river, okay,
Speaker 1: that's very obvious. But if it's millions of polluters polluting
Speaker 1: the atmosphere, it's the same principle. No demandatory vaccines. Well, um,
Speaker 1: you know I don't have flu shots myself. I represented
Speaker 1: the talking about vaccines for children. Governor, Oh, you mean
Speaker 1: like polio, and that sure, absolutely, that's that's that's fine, discretionary.
Speaker 1: There shouldn't be mandatory vaccines for children, for babies, for infants. No,
Speaker 1: if you mean polio tetan is that sort of thing though,
Speaker 1: that's perfectly fine. Mmr. You know, all sorts of vaccines.
Speaker 1: That's very controversial. You know, I would not agree there
Speaker 1: should be no mandatory vaccines for children. I don't agree
Speaker 1: with that. So you believe there should be mandatory vaccines,
Speaker 1: And I just want to make sure I'm getting this straight.
Speaker 1: He claims the no fly list is error prone and
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be used to deny gun purchases. Are you cool?
Speaker 1: With that. You know, I think Gary and I have
Speaker 1: had some influence on each other over the course of
Speaker 1: this year, and uh, I think that I've had some
Speaker 1: influence on his thinking in the foreign policy area. He's
Speaker 1: had some influence on my thinking in UH criminal justice reform,
Speaker 1: you know, treating possessory narcotics offenses, for example, as a
Speaker 1: public health emergency as opposed to UH a fit candidate
Speaker 1: for criminal treatment and lengthy sentences. So if you're on
Speaker 1: the no fly list, do you think you should be
Speaker 1: able to purchase a gun? Well, I think before you
Speaker 1: can purchase a gun, there have to be some further questions,
Speaker 1: like why are you on the no fly list? And
Speaker 1: I think Senator Collins of Maine has proposed to kind
Speaker 1: of compromise legislation that seemed to me when I read
Speaker 1: it to address the situation. Preserve people's rights, but have
Speaker 1: short waiting periods when they get to clear their name
Speaker 1: and say I shouldn't be on this list. All right,
Speaker 1: We're going to go to a break in a moment.
Speaker 1: But the final thing on my little laundry list, raise
Speaker 1: social security retirement to seventy two is what I have
Speaker 1: heard from Gary, and I agree with that, and I
Speaker 1: agree with him very much that if we do nothing
Speaker 1: about Social Security, and I do favor raising the retirement age,
Speaker 1: I do favor imposing a means test. If we do nothing,
Speaker 1: it's not going to be there for the next generation.
Speaker 1: And that's what a lot of all is brew haha
Speaker 1: about the millennials is about. I think they understand that
Speaker 1: if we put our heads in the sand and do
Speaker 1: nothing about the entitlement programs, they won't be there for
Speaker 1: the generation it's now eighteen to thirty four years old.
Speaker 1: But do you think it's acceptable for somebody who works
Speaker 1: with his hands or as a laborer, a coal miner,
Speaker 1: if somebody works in a factory for that person to
Speaker 1: have to work to age seventy two before collecting any benefits. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe conjigger with the program to have exceptions, but generally
Speaker 1: people haven't wanted exceptions with Social Security. That's why people
Speaker 1: have opposed the means test. I think that's insane. Why
Speaker 1: shouldn't there be a means test? I mean, let's be honest,
Speaker 1: you don't need social Security, Governor, right, I don't need
Speaker 1: social Security. I'd be happy to say no. It was interesting.
Speaker 1: I used to talk to my mom and dad about it,
Speaker 1: you know, and they were savers and we're very frugal.
Speaker 1: And I'd say, mom and dad, do you really need
Speaker 1: social Security? They're like, yes, we do, but don't. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just to me, it just seems ridiculous. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: I mean to say there should be no means test
Speaker 1: as a non starter in my book. And yet you know,
Speaker 1: people say, no, we're not going to touch social Security
Speaker 1: in any respect because they think it's a third rail,
Speaker 1: because they don't want to actually talk through the issues.
Speaker 1: And I think Gary and I are not afraid to
Speaker 1: talk through these issues. Well, there's another there's another argument
Speaker 1: about not imposing a means test on Social Security, which
Speaker 1: a lot of Democrats make. You don't want it to
Speaker 1: become a welfare pro Graham that only benefits people who
Speaker 1: are less well off, because then the political constituency for
Speaker 1: social Security declines. To understand, I understand, and people on
Speaker 1: the you know, left left side of things fiscally want
Speaker 1: everything to be an entitlement. And the extreme example of
Speaker 1: Senator Sanders, and I think Senator Clinton has picked up
Speaker 1: a lot of the Sanders program, uh in her primary
Speaker 1: tussle with him. Well, speaking of Hillary Clinton. When we
Speaker 1: come back, we're going to talk about who your siphony
Speaker 1: votes from, Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump and what you
Speaker 1: think about that. Will be back with more from Bill Well.
Speaker 1: Right after this, we're back with Massachusetts Governor Bill Weld,
Speaker 1: who is currently running for Vice President of the United
Speaker 1: States part of the Libertarian ticket with Gary Johnson. You know,
Speaker 1: I asked for questions Governor Weld from people who follow
Speaker 1: me on Twitter, and many asked, h if you were
Speaker 1: hurting Hillary Clinton and we're actually um enabling a Trump presidency,
Speaker 1: how you would feel about that. First of all, we're
Speaker 1: not out to hurt anybody, unlike the two establishment party candidates,
Speaker 1: who seemingly like the two parties they represent, want to
Speaker 1: kill each other. As near and I can tell, as
Speaker 1: I can tell to this point, we draw votes pretty
Speaker 1: equally from the two establishment parties, something of a surprise
Speaker 1: to me. I would have thought they would almost all
Speaker 1: come from Mr Trump, because my appeal would be to
Speaker 1: moderate Republicans, and there's a bunch of moderate Republicans who
Speaker 1: are not too comfortable with Mr Trump and might even
Speaker 1: stay home. Uh. And given you know, our ticket to
Speaker 1: successful but genial Republican governors two terms each, they might
Speaker 1: very well come our way. And I think we're getting
Speaker 1: our share of that. And I think as the weeks
Speaker 1: were on and people focus more intently on the on
Speaker 1: the race and the issues, it will be easier for
Speaker 1: me to make the case that, you know, what Mr
Speaker 1: Trump says about having a closed economy, no foreign trade, uh,
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, it just is incoherent. So I
Speaker 1: think as we go on, more votes are going to
Speaker 1: come from Trump. And there seemed to be a little
Speaker 1: bit of a divide on sixty Minutes between you and
Speaker 1: your running mate on this particular issue Trump and and Clinton.
Speaker 1: That is, Steve Croft said you seem less comfortable with
Speaker 1: the idea of Donald Trump as president than Hillary Clinton,
Speaker 1: and you said something like, well, I think you're a
Speaker 1: pretty astute observer, did well in school. You did well
Speaker 1: in school, and and I think Gary Johnson basically said,
Speaker 1: you know, they're equally rotten. So if it if the
Speaker 1: evidence mounts that your candidacy is enabling a Trump presidency,
Speaker 1: would you consider, as Carl Bernstein speculated in the last
Speaker 1: few days, dropping out, Well, you know, I can tell
Speaker 1: there's some nervousness over at Clinton headquarters. Because I've received
Speaker 1: several dozen emails unsolicited from people I don't know, in
Speaker 1: the last two days saying you are a pariah, You're awful,
Speaker 1: You're gonna go down in history, You're worse than Hitler.
Speaker 1: You're going to enable a Trump presidency. Every vote you
Speaker 1: take away millennial from Hillary Clinton is sustaining upon your
Speaker 1: honor and that of your ancestors and your child. I mean,
Speaker 1: very strong stuff, obviously orchestrated. They all came out of
Speaker 1: a clear blue sky. So I know there's some nervousness
Speaker 1: over there, but you know, I would say, go get
Speaker 1: your votes, go hold on your votes. You know, Gary
Speaker 1: and I did not get into this because we wanted
Speaker 1: to please, uh anybody in particular. You know, we certainly
Speaker 1: didn't get into it to please people in other countries.
Speaker 1: By our support of free trade, we think free trade
Speaker 1: benefits the US economy, and I'm pretty sure we're right
Speaker 1: about that. But people say, oh, you know, you're against
Speaker 1: American workers because you're for free trade. I mean, that
Speaker 1: is just totally incoherent. We no matter what your motivation, though, Governor,
Speaker 1: I mean, are you prepared to be seen as a spoiler?
Speaker 1: Sort of the Ralph Nader of this race, if in fact,
Speaker 1: you do siphon votes from Hillary Clinton and help usherinna
Speaker 1: Donald Trump presidency. Are you are you ready for that?
Speaker 1: Because if we do a reality check, let's be honest,
Speaker 1: you're probably not gonna win. Well, we're gonna try. We're
Speaker 1: gonna make our case. And when you get done hearing
Speaker 1: what I have to say about Mr Trump and rounding
Speaker 1: up eleven million people and deporting them, and building a
Speaker 1: wall with Mexico and having a closed, a closed economy
Speaker 1: and no free trade whatsoever, and to bring back the
Speaker 1: smooth Hauly tariffs that brought on the Great Depression, and
Speaker 1: arm the Japanese and the South Koreans with nuclear weapons.
Speaker 1: I mean, the list is almost inexhaustible. Yeah, but Governor, well,
Speaker 1: that's that. That's well and good. But people have been
Speaker 1: criticizing Donald Trump for those very issues four months now
Speaker 1: and it doesn't seem to have a major effect on
Speaker 1: his candidacy. So are you being naive by suggesting as
Speaker 1: people become more aware of some of his positions that
Speaker 1: his his support is going to wane because he seems
Speaker 1: to be increasing his support, you know, and and it's
Speaker 1: it's getting close to d Day. Well, I think it
Speaker 1: can only be good for the country, frankly, for people
Speaker 1: to become aware of what alternatives there are in this
Speaker 1: election year. And neither of the other parties represents the
Speaker 1: combination of fiscal responsibility and social inclusiveness that we represent.
Speaker 1: So that's really my answer to that whole line of attack. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll give you a theory that was positive by somebody
Speaker 1: who knows you, who said the following, and you can
Speaker 1: tell me whether you think this is true or not.
Speaker 1: This person said you were gonna be another Republican who
Speaker 1: endorsed Hillary because you have a long and warm relationship
Speaker 1: with her, and then Johnson called you out of the
Speaker 1: clear blue sky, said you know you could be his
Speaker 1: running mate. It gave you an opportunity to put yourself
Speaker 1: and your issues kind of back on on center stage.
Speaker 1: And you thought, as you said, that you would take
Speaker 1: more votes from Trump than from Clinton, so kind of
Speaker 1: a win win all around. Is any of that accurate.
Speaker 1: I can't remember having a specific plan at any point
Speaker 1: to endorse Mrs Clinton. The part about Trump is true,
Speaker 1: but a specific plan. Did you have any intention of
Speaker 1: endorsing Hillary Clinton? I don't recall that coming up before
Speaker 1: Gary called me no. I mean, it's it's no secret
Speaker 1: that I think she's qualified to be president. Now I
Speaker 1: do not think Donald Trump is qualified to be president.
Speaker 1: So if push comes to shove, will you drop out?
Speaker 1: As if if in fact you that's absolutely not I've
Speaker 1: never called on anybody else to drop out of a
Speaker 1: political race or not run in the first place, and
Speaker 1: equally not not persuaded to listen to that kind of counsel,
Speaker 1: even from you know, well meaning folks. And in addition
Speaker 1: to the orchestrated emails I've got, I've heard from some
Speaker 1: New York friends of mine that they're worried about Mrs
Speaker 1: Clinton and that's that's a lot has been written about
Speaker 1: that in recent days. It's called bed wedding. But you know,
Speaker 1: is that it's yeah, nervousness about the Clinton prospects. Uh
Speaker 1: and uh, I don't know. I guess I'm old school
Speaker 1: of Massachusetts politics. Never never let him see you sweat
Speaker 1: or r r P. I guess Mitt Romney and other
Speaker 1: leading anti Trump Republicans have said, Hey, if Bill Weld
Speaker 1: were on the top of the ticket, we'd support them.
Speaker 1: But Gary Johnson not so much. And I have to
Speaker 1: ask you about some of his gaffs. He didn't know
Speaker 1: what Aleppo was, as you saw, and you talked about
Speaker 1: that on Sixty Minutes. He was asked by Mike Barnacle
Speaker 1: on on Morning Joe, what would you do if you
Speaker 1: were elected? About Aleppo? About Aleppo? And what is Aleppo?
Speaker 1: You're kidding? Aleppo is in Syria. It's the It's the
Speaker 1: epicenter of the refugee crisis. Okay, got it? Got it?
Speaker 1: And apparently, according to the New Yorker, he had never
Speaker 1: heard of Harriet Tubman. Is that? Could that be? Maybe
Speaker 1: she's better known in the East than the West. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I will tell you I hear a lot
Speaker 1: in Massachusetts, in New York from old friends of mine.
Speaker 1: You should be on top of the ticket. And when
Speaker 1: I get west of the Mississippi with Gary, guess who
Speaker 1: gets mobbed at the airports. It's not me, And we
Speaker 1: don't hear anything about flipping the ticket. But until January
Speaker 1: you're running mate. Mr Johnson was CEO of a marijuana company.
Speaker 1: You know, he hadn't heard of of Aleppo. As Katie mentioned,
Speaker 1: Do you think he's ready and qualified on day one
Speaker 1: to be president? Gary is? Gary is very sharp, and
Speaker 1: he showed a lot of sand and grit in New
Speaker 1: Mexico and kind of shocked the establishment there by winning.
Speaker 1: He was at one percent when he started. He had
Speaker 1: a big impact Fishly. He vetoed seven and fifties spending bills,
Speaker 1: and he was overridden twice, and the legislature was pretty
Speaker 1: close to two to one Democratic. So he knows how
Speaker 1: to talk to the people and make things stick. Uh,
Speaker 1: he does not have uh, you know, an Oscar wild
Speaker 1: facility with language. But you know, I thought I was
Speaker 1: a pretty good chess player, and uh, Gary and I
Speaker 1: have now played twice and he beat me both times,
Speaker 1: and I had master points and he taught himself. So
Speaker 1: and then you look at some of his other characteristics,
Speaker 1: like driving himself as an athlete. He's a professional quality
Speaker 1: ironman triathlete and has climbed the tallest mountain and all
Speaker 1: seven continents. So he's a driven individual. And he's got
Speaker 1: a backflip on sixty minutes that was quite a diving
Speaker 1: board with no no spring in it. But he's a
Speaker 1: driven person. And obviously he's run for president Nined States twice. Now.
Speaker 1: He has plenty of ambition. He also has plenty of humility,
Speaker 1: and and people sometimes mistake that for something else, goofiness
Speaker 1: or something. They say, how come this guy isn't saying
Speaker 1: I'm the greatest. You know, he's talking around the use.
Speaker 1: Why does he just come out and say I'm the greatest. Well,
Speaker 1: you'll never hear that from Gary Johnson. He's very I
Speaker 1: would would you say that he's a bit quirky? Is
Speaker 1: that a fear? Think he's quirky? I think I'm a
Speaker 1: bit quirky. They're they're different quirks. But I think the
Speaker 1: overwhelming thing about Gary is his humility. He reminds me
Speaker 1: in many ways of Abraham Lincoln, who Uh you know
Speaker 1: what I asked Gary, how do you climb these mountains?
Speaker 1: He said, I put one foot in front of the other.
Speaker 1: That's how I do all my athletics stuff. And Lincoln,
Speaker 1: you may remember, was asked how how long should a
Speaker 1: man's legs be because Lincoln was very tall, and they
Speaker 1: wanted him to say long like mine, and he said
Speaker 1: long enough to reach the ground. So they both have
Speaker 1: kind of homespun wisdom. And uh, I I refer to
Speaker 1: Gary as honest Gary on the campaign trail. It's the
Speaker 1: one undertaking we made to each other when Leslie and
Speaker 1: I flew out and shook with him on the deal
Speaker 1: after he and I talked on the telephone, is We're
Speaker 1: gonna tell the truth to each other and and to
Speaker 1: the public throughout this campaign. And Gary is obsessed with
Speaker 1: telling the truth, which is why sometimes he seems painfully honest.
Speaker 1: And yet when I mentioned Gary Johnson to people I
Speaker 1: know who aren't following the day to day of politics,
Speaker 1: the first word, inevitably that comes up is some variant
Speaker 1: of pothead. How do you respond to that, is, do
Speaker 1: you think that just sort of a bias we have
Speaker 1: toward alcohol against marijuana, or do you think there's a
Speaker 1: sense that you know, he's been on drugs for too long. No,
Speaker 1: he's he's got a mind like a steel trap. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I've been in a lot of plotting and scheming conversations
Speaker 1: with him, and this guy has a rat trap mind.
Speaker 1: It's just that, you know, I said I was out
Speaker 1: there by myself for the decade of the nineties on
Speaker 1: gay and lesbian issues. Gary was out there by himself
Speaker 1: on legalizing marijuana for a decade as well. It was
Speaker 1: a decade after that. Uh, and so he came to
Speaker 1: be identified with that. And while there are a hundred
Speaker 1: million Americans who have smoked marijuana, there are a lot
Speaker 1: who happen and to them it's just so alien, even
Speaker 1: if they're knocking back a couple of stiff ones every evening.
Speaker 1: So it's I think, fear of the unknown. But if
Speaker 1: you look at and I say, Gary has influenced me
Speaker 1: on some issues, this is one of them. If you
Speaker 1: look at the statistics, uh, you know, you have a
Speaker 1: legal prescription uh pills killing thirty thousand people a year
Speaker 1: and marijuana killing I don't know how many people zero
Speaker 1: a year. That's a factor that's worth taking into account.
Speaker 1: And can I ask you, Governor, why you think we're
Speaker 1: in the state we're in when it comes to this campaign.
Speaker 1: Why do you think Donald Trump has caught fire? And
Speaker 1: why is he enjoying really such uh, you know, such
Speaker 1: support across the country. And I suggest, by the way,
Speaker 1: I would recommend you not use the phrase basket of deplorables.
Speaker 1: Just why I don't. I don't know why he's gotten
Speaker 1: as far as he has. I aim to find out
Speaker 1: between now and November eight, because we're going to have
Speaker 1: even if not in the debates and we could still
Speaker 1: get in the second third debates. We're going to have
Speaker 1: a seat at the table and uh a platform to
Speaker 1: voice analyzes and you know, but certainly you must have
Speaker 1: some idea, Governor. I mean, you're you're an astute observer
Speaker 1: of politics for many decades. Now, Well, what is he
Speaker 1: what is he appealing to? You know? What he's doing
Speaker 1: with almost every breath is to try to set group
Speaker 1: against group and set people's teeth on edge against each
Speaker 1: other and stir up negative emotions, uh, beginning with envy,
Speaker 1: than going on to resentment and ultimately hatred not too
Speaker 1: not too strong a word with his treatment of Muslim
Speaker 1: uh so, and he's had some success there by appealing
Speaker 1: to the very worst angels of our nature. Uh. And
Speaker 1: it's a sad thing. So I think the more sunlight
Speaker 1: that can be shined on that the better. And I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be there trying to do that in the next
Speaker 1: next seven weeks. But it's the most uh negative and
Speaker 1: unappealing uh run of statements and initiatives and feints and
Speaker 1: dodges and lies and prevarications, uh that I've seen in
Speaker 1: my lifetime. And as you said, I've been around politics
Speaker 1: for a while. It doesn't seem too it doesn't seem
Speaker 1: to stick. I mean, the sort of the teflon candidate
Speaker 1: is is such an overused phrase, but I mean he
Speaker 1: is beyond Teflon. It seems to me. Well, let's hope
Speaker 1: that when people are windows shopping that they're willing to
Speaker 1: put up with a lot for some entertainment value, but
Speaker 1: then at the end of the day, when they have
Speaker 1: to actually walk in the booth and cast a vote,
Speaker 1: that they'll be focused more on the merits. But it's iking.
Speaker 1: You've described all the reasons that he's hateful and terrible
Speaker 1: and his policies are gonna potentially start a new depression.
Speaker 1: And you even compared his immigration planned to crystal knocked,
Speaker 1: which for people who do worse or worse. And yet
Speaker 1: he's tied with the Democratic nominee. So where is this
Speaker 1: coming from? I mean, go figure. He he retweeted pictures
Speaker 1: of George Lincoln Rockwell, Uh, you're too young to remember
Speaker 1: he was the founder of the American Nazi Party. So
Speaker 1: Mr Trump gets called on this, why are you retreating
Speaker 1: retweeting George Lincoln Rockwell, Oh, it's nothing. Uh, it was
Speaker 1: an accident and it was a joke. Don't worry about it, baloney,
Speaker 1: it's a dog whistle. And uh, you know, the white
Speaker 1: supremacists will say, yeah, we know Donald is with us,
Speaker 1: and you know we don't care that he took it
Speaker 1: back and said he wasn't serious about tweeting the picture
Speaker 1: of the founder. So it's just, uh, it's a terrible
Speaker 1: campaign on on so many levels that it sets new standards,
Speaker 1: low standards for American politics. And speaking of low standards,
Speaker 1: I think Trump's only response to you personally was when
Speaker 1: you made the crystal knocked comment. His campaign put out
Speaker 1: a statement in which he said, and I'm quoting here,
Speaker 1: I don't talk about his alcoholism, so why would he
Speaker 1: talk about my foolishly perceived fascism. Yeah, well, um, if
Speaker 1: that if he wants to plead guilty to fascism, I'll
Speaker 1: plead guilty to drinking wine. Conversely, Governor, why do you
Speaker 1: think Hillary Clinton is having so much trouble that that
Speaker 1: young woman you met in your twenties and called a
Speaker 1: really great kid. I don't understand it, and I say
Speaker 1: so to everyone who will listen. I I don't get it,
Speaker 1: but obviously it's there. At one point, Trump was at
Speaker 1: sev unfavorable and she was at sixty eight or something
Speaker 1: like that. I don't understand it. Uh, And it may
Speaker 1: be that, uh, you know, the negativity of the Republican
Speaker 1: primary season has slopped over into the general election, and
Speaker 1: everyone thinks they're supposed to be all upset about everything
Speaker 1: all the time. But but you know, the negative tone
Speaker 1: of the two establishment parties. I think we're we may
Speaker 1: make an issue out of that, saying, look, we're not
Speaker 1: being negative. Here's what we think. We are an alternative,
Speaker 1: and uh, we hope that that may have an effect.
Speaker 1: How much do you think the criticism of Hillary Clinton
Speaker 1: is imbued by sexism? Oh, I'm I'm always prepared to
Speaker 1: look for misogyny behind every tree. I think women have
Speaker 1: had a hard time getting fair treatment. Do you think
Speaker 1: she has a problem with honesty and trustworthiness? Those have
Speaker 1: become the kind of buzzwords for people who oppose Clinton. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I may get cross wise with Gary here, but no,
Speaker 1: I don't think that. I mean, I think it's not
Speaker 1: a stretch to say there's some pay to play aspects
Speaker 1: to the relationship between the Foundations and the government. And uh,
Speaker 1: I wish that the HUMA abbot and emails had come
Speaker 1: from her as well as from huma Um. But in
Speaker 1: the scheme of things that that doesn't match the level
Speaker 1: of shouting that's going on by everybody else. So what's
Speaker 1: the path to victory, Governor weld the past? To victory
Speaker 1: for me and Johnson is to solve our quantitative uh
Speaker 1: problem or issue, and that's the only thirty five percent
Speaker 1: of the people know who we are. I don't think
Speaker 1: we have a qualitative problem because I think we've got
Speaker 1: the best, the best ticket, the most experience, and the
Speaker 1: best platform, which is to do what's necessary on the
Speaker 1: budget and also to be the opposite of what what
Speaker 1: Mr Trump is on social issues. So if we put
Speaker 1: our story in front of people, I don't have too
Speaker 1: much doubt as to the outcome. You're right, Katie, time
Speaker 1: is flying and we've got seven weeks to do that.
Speaker 1: In what gives me some uh uh some ground for
Speaker 1: optimism here is it's in the last four weeks of
Speaker 1: the election that people really do focus with laser like
Speaker 1: intensity on the issues and on the options, and it's
Speaker 1: gonna be hard for them to ignore us all together.
Speaker 1: If we get even a modicum of earned media exposure
Speaker 1: in those seven weeks. But if you don't get into
Speaker 1: any of the debates, do you think that there's any
Speaker 1: chance that you could win? It's a very long put.
Speaker 1: But then I saw Justin Leonards fifty seven foot put
Speaker 1: at the Brookline Country Club live to win the Davis
Speaker 1: puck Up gave us a cup for the United States.
Speaker 1: That's a long put that went in. Nice to have
Speaker 1: the common touch at the Brookline Country Club, isn't a
Speaker 1: governor's right? Before we go, I just have to ask
Speaker 1: you what newspapers and magazines have you read that have
Speaker 1: helped establish your worldview? I read the News. I got
Speaker 1: that joke, Governor, by the way, it seems to have
Speaker 1: fallen flat. No, No, I got it. But I smiled
Speaker 1: in the room with him. He smiled. My reading habits
Speaker 1: have maybe shifted to making sure that I absorbed the
Speaker 1: Times and the Journal. I read foreign affairs. I read
Speaker 1: a lot in international affairs. And you're a writer I have.
Speaker 1: I can't let you go before mentioning that you've written
Speaker 1: three books. Yeah, and also, and you don't know this, Katie,
Speaker 1: but I have a memoir in the can that's four
Speaker 1: seventy five pages long and that's without the fatal phone
Speaker 1: call from Gary Johnson in May of two thousand sixteen.
Speaker 1: So it's going to have to elongate a little bit,
Speaker 1: and then it will really be too long to read.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Governor, how many pages four seventy five and counting?
Speaker 1: Oh god? Well, well, yes, you're definitely going to have
Speaker 1: to uh do an epilogue for that. It should be
Speaker 1: a fascinating month for you. I hope you drink coffee
Speaker 1: because you're gonna need plenty of it. That's entirely true.
Speaker 1: I'm a three and a half cup of day man already.
Speaker 1: All right, Well up that to five, Governor Bill, Well,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for spending some time with us talking
Speaker 1: about this Stranger Than Fiction campaign, and good luck on
Speaker 1: the trail. Thanks so much, Katie Bryant, Thanks thanks. We
Speaker 1: want to thank Gianna Palmer, Gretta Cone, and the Reverend
Speaker 1: John de Lore for producing the show. Zack Dinerstein mixed
Speaker 1: this episode special Thanks as always to Mark Phillips for
Speaker 1: our fantastic theme music, and most of all, thank you
Speaker 1: for listening. If you want to leave us a message,
Speaker 1: please do so at nine to nine, two to four, four, six,
Speaker 1: three seven, and please subscribe, rate and review the podcast.
Speaker 1: It really does help other listeners to find the show.
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Speaker 1: ran and review so we'll talk to you next time.
Speaker 1: Hey folks, it's me Mark Marin and if you love podcasts,
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