WEBVTT - How MasterClass Founder David Rogier Brought Star Power to Online Learning 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:12.880 Welcome to Strictly Business, Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:17.400 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:21.600 Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today, my 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:25.919 guest is David Rogier, founder and CEO of master Class. 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:30.159 After working in venture capital, David got the inspiration for 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.680 the online education platform from a bit of wisdom that 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.559 he learned from his grandmother. Education is something that no 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.680 one can take from you, she taught him. She also 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:43.160 told him to learn from the best, and he took 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.960 that to heart as he launched what became Masterclass in 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.920 the lockdown conditions of the pandemic, as you might expect, 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:55.080 was a big accelerant for master Class. In our conversation, 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.400 David talks about the hurdles of getting the service up 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.600 and running, the cold holes and the nose that came 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:04.919 in before a few keep people said yes. He also 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:09.319 offers insight into the entrepreneur's burden, what he describes as 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.759 the confidence you need to pursue your vision when everybody 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.680 else thinks it's a bad or an impossible idea. It's 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:27.280 all coming up. On today's episode of Strictly Business, Welcome back, 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:34.120 to strictly business. David Rogier, CEO and founder of Master Class, 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.600 thank you for joining us today. It is a pleasure 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.800 to be here. Thanks for having me. Tell us now, 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.640 as you look back on, you know, going on six 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.760 years of course and counting of Master Class, can you 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.840 talk us through. I mean, start with the spark of inspiration. 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:53.640 What was it that made you, you know, martial divorces 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:57.160 and get what you needed together to to to put 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.480 your first you know, to plant your flag first with 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:06.000 Master Lass. I wanted to start something and um and uh, 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.440 and I had some time and fun and fun and 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.720 funding to actually do it, and so um how it 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:15.160 started actually working in adventure. I was actually working as 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:20.080 an investor, and um, I was in investing in companies 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:22.960 and I actually missed building things. So I went to 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:24.600 my boss at the time and I told him, thanks, 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.359 thanks so much, but actually I want to go build. 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.760 I'm going I am going to quit. I think there's 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:32.280 you know, a little a little bit of shock on 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.000 his face. Um. And then he asked me what I'm 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.040 going to build and I said, I don't know. He goes, well, 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:41.480 why don't you think of some ideas and I will 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:43.600 fund you and I was like, man, I don't have 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.400 an idea or team. He's like, that's okay, And he 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.000 wrote me a check to go think of ideas. And 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:51.720 I was shocked. I called my mom. I mean, I 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:57.720 was shocked. You must have been a very good employee. Yeah. Um, 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:01.040 his job was to invest right company, So you know, 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.560 there was trying. I mean, it was such a kind 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:07.360 gesture and one that would only I think having because 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.200 I worked for him and knew him for a while. 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:16.000 But um, it was also it was terrifying. Um, it's 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.040 at a once in a lifetime opportunity that I don't 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:21.480 want to mess up, and you know, and it was 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:23.480 such a gift. But all of a sudden, you go 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:28.720 from having a structure job having no structure, and and 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:31.239 you know that was I didn't know what I was 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.280 gonna think of. But I felt pressure, you know, a 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:35.600 from him to come up with a great idea, felt 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.640 pressure from my from my from myself. Right, Um, this 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:41.040 is the once lifetime thing. I don't want to mess 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:44.200 that up. And you know, everybody asked you what you 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:46.280 are doing, and you're like, you know, I'm trying to 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.040 think of a great idea, and you know, I'm a 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.160 little stressed about it, and nobody gives you any empathy 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:56.800 or anything right because because it seems like it is 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.600 an amazing you know, chance opportunity, um or if I may. 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.040 I mean, you really were a blank slate at this point. 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.360 You didn't you didn't have an idea of an area 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:07.400 or a sector of interest. You were really kind of 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.200 wide open. I mean I had lots of ideas and 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.320 thoughts um and different frame, different ways to think about it, 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.200 things like, Okay, what is something I really care about? 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:19.839 What's like I need in life? What are other people's 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.360 needs in life? What are trends in the market. I 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.279 had a couple of ideas, but nothing that was, you know, 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.520 I was sure about and um, So I asked people 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:33.200 for I wanted their I wanted their wisdom and advice. 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.800 And somebody gave me a great constraint. She said, choose 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:41.159 something that even if it fails, you are going to 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:46.120 be proud of it. That was a brilliant constraint. And 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:50.400 I think sometimes really good advice and sometimes having a 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.200 bit of some rules or a box allows you to 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:59.000 be more create more, you know, allows your your you 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.320 feel more free because you're like, Okay, the thing has 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.960 to be a half an hour show or a two 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:07.280 hour movie, or I have a budget. This was like, 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:09.960 if I did that constraint, then you're saying, okay, what's 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:12.600 something that even it fails, I'd be proud of. And Um. 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:15.520 I immediately thought of my grandmother. So I was in 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:19.080 part raised by her. Um and UM. I remember in 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.520 um second grade, I went to her house after school 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:23.680 and day. Um I would usually stay with her after 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.359 school and and I was complaining to her about all 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.440 the math homework I had, which obviously I didn't have 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.200 a lot because I'm in second grade. And my grandma 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.720 tells me this story that when she was sixteen years old, 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:38.000 she was living at a time in crack out Poland 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.080 her and her mom went on a family vacation. While 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:45.960 they're on vacation, didn't the Nazis invaded Um. They took everything, 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.159 they killed her father, Her and her mom fleet to 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.039 New York City. Only job her and her mom can 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:57.240 get is in a factory floor. Um, and they're working side. 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:01.279 They are working side side, eyes side in the factory 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:03.920 and my grandmother's side. She wants to become a doctor, 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.400 finds every medical school and the state of New York 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:09.560 applies to all of them by hand. I think it's 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.040 over twenty five schools. She gets a note from every 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:18.120 single one, working exactly. She keeps working. The factory applies again. 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:19.960 The next year, gets a note from every single one. 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.080 She starts calling the deans of admissions and asking why 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.160 am I not getting in? They all hang up on her, 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.400 except for this one guy who says, I'll be honest, 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.960 you have three strikes against you. You're a woman, an immigrant, 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:36.640 and you're a foreigner. Sorry, you are a woman, a immigrant, 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:41.839 and you're Jewish and hangs up the phone. My grandma 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.320 keeps working. Factory applies again. The next year, all twenty 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:47.560 five gets into one school and becomes a pediatrician. And 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:49.760 I remember I was staring at her because I'm in 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.520 second grade. I was just whining about math homework and 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:54.839 this was a heavy story to get in a response. 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:57.360 And my grandma looks at me and she's like, David, 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.560 the point I'm trying to make you is education only 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:04.080 thing that someone can't take away from you. And I realized, 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.039 I got this one chance. I want to build and 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.120 I'll be proud of it. The fails, I want to 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.040 build someng that other people can't take away from others. 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:13.920 I want to try to make it possible for anybody 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:16.800 in the world to learn from the best. Wow, that 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:20.000 is some determination in your gens there that you can tell. 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.720 I mean, she is my hero. What's her name? Her 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:29.840 name is Yanka. She passed away when I when I 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.440 was in college. That you know, was the spark of 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.560 the idea I did, you know, UM, I did more testing. 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.680 I posted some ads on Craigslist. UM offered to pay 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:43.160 people just to hear about their own educational path, mock 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.840 some things up, thought about why I don't take online classes, 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.360 And then you know, the idea came to try to 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.080 get the best in the world to actually teach UM 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.280 and we launched it about you know in two thousand. 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.360 In two thousand, fifaunched it and you got you know, 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.280 you got Dustin Hoffman, you You've got you know, big 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.680 names right off the start. How did you do that? 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.040 How did you How did you convince people to to 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:08.560 take a chance on something that was you know, very 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:12.720 new and and even in a new format that we're 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.760 now very familiar with, but weren't just just five short 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.640 years ago. It was really hard. I mean the third 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.120 I mean, everybody said it's a bad idea, it's not 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.400 gonna work. Those same people now say, I always told 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.440 you it was gonna be a great idea. Um it was. 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.080 You know, it was a lot of cold calling, cold emailing, 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.679 talking to anybody who knows anybody. Um, you know, the 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:42.240 first three years were Dustin Hoffman, Surreen uh Serena Williams 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:47.440 and James pat and James Patterson. After we had maybe 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.720 five to tend, the flywheel started spinning, so it got 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:52.960 easier and easier. I mean we now say no to 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.199 nine attent people. But you know, early on it was written, 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.320 it was so hard, it was so hard. H And 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.959 how did you, um, how did they sort of design? 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.600 There's a there's a design to the classes and a 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.720 and a there's a there's a sense that kind of 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:11.480 goes across them. Of course they're different people in different subjects, 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.360 but there's a kind of a rhythm and a pacing. 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.520 Did that come by trial and error or did you 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:18.439 have a did you at some point have a vision 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.959 for what a master class would look like? I would 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.240 love to say that we came into the first shoot 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:28.240 with a you know, a solid vision that you know, 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.000 stayed true to out. It was definitely a work in progress. 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:36.080 I mean we did test classes with my parents, UM, 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:40.640 so we filmed them. Our early classes were directed by 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:45.520 j Roach, who directed Meet the Parents. Um, and he's 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:49.480 fantastic director. Bill guten Tag, who's a two time Academy 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:54.200 Award winn Doc filmmaker, directed early ones. Um. I mean 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.920 we got We had lots of help from lots of people, 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:02.760 but it was a lot of you know what you know. Uh. 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:07.760 We kept thinking, how do you bring the joy back 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.840 to learning? If you talk to most people if they 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.280 like school, the answers no. If you ask most people 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:15.800 if they love to learn, the answers of course. And 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:18.760 so there's a gap there. And so start thinking what 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.000 how do you bring it back? And you know, for us, 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:26.360 the answer was why, you know, aspirationally, why can't it 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:31.240 be as enthralling as a movie? Um? Yet you know 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:35.040 as educational is your favorite class in school, and so 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:39.040 trying to merge those two worlds, um. And so from 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:43.000 a pacing standpoint, how tight do you make it versus 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.600 how much you let it air out? Um? How do 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.840 you create a sense of intimacy? How long should it 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:52.520 be you know, making sure it doesn't feel scripted, because that, 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.319 you know, it has to feel you wanted to feel 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:59.560 like you are sitting on a couch or a or 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.680 a bass couldball Corps or a film set with these 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:06.000 people and they're just doing a brain dump to you 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:11.360 of all the things that they wish somebody had taught them. Um, 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:15.520 when did you get the sense that the business Like, 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:17.600 when did you get the sense the business was really 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:21.040 having traction kind of in in in pop culture or 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.720 at least among your target consumers. Yeah. I mean the 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.000 first day we launched, I went home crying, So I 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:29.839 thought it wasn't gonna work because our sales weren't as goes. 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.760 I thought. On the second day, I knew it was 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.960 going to be a big business. Okay, Yeah, I mean 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.040 I remember I went home the first I cried, actually, 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:41.880 and I'm not a crier, but I was like, what 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:43.800 am I gonna do? How am I gonna go to 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:45.920 all these people that you know, really bet on me 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.040 and us that this is gonna work? And then the 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:49.600 second day on in the office and one of our 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.000 marketing at team members is there and hit a big 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:53.719 smile on his face, and I went to him I 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:55.640 was like, what's going on. He's like, this is gonna 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:57.840 be a huge business. I was like, wait why, And 0:11:57.880 --> 0:11:59.760 he's like, look, if you look at the traction that 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.720 we are getting, we can really blow this out. And 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:06.839 you know, it just kept growing and growing. Um I 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.680 think so you know along the way, there's all different 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.280 points where you know, it's a step level function. I mean, 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.960 getting the first three people to teach that was huge. 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.600 You know, Uh, launching Aaron Sorking class was another step 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.640 function in the Christian Aguilara class. I mean every year 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:29.520 those things. Last year, Um, we we were spoofed on 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.360 on SNL. That was you know, I mean that that 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.680 was That's a real tribute. You've made it. You've hit 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.080 the pop culture consciousness. Yeah, it's very hard whenever you 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.000 see that because you're like, they're making fun of us. 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.559 But it's but it's funny and you know, and so 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.280 you know, and you probably saw a commensurate you know, 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.320 you probably just saw a lot of traction after that, 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:55.560 people going, you know, what is that thing? Yeah? Exactly, exactly, yeah, Um, 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.719 that's uh. And what did you do initially to get 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.560 the word out? Wasn't like at all? Digital advertising did 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.280 you spend any money on old fashioned TV or or 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.559 outdoor or anything. In the beginning, it was all digital. 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:14.360 We now do print in an outdoor and television, But 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:16.160 in the beginning, I mean, you know, one of the 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.719 best things about the Internet is you know, you can 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:23.000 use these different platforms and sites to target people you 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:24.880 think are going to be interested. Right. You know, if 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:29.600 you're if you're like Photoggerfy and or Annie Leebwitz fan, 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.640 you know, probably you're gonna be interested in taking her class. 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.280 If you're a Walt Disney fan and an entrepreneurship the 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.600 Bob Eiger class, you're probably gonna want to take it. Um. So, 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.400 you know, early on it was very helpful to aim 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:44.080 at that niches. But now you know, we have our 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.680 hundred classes across multiple fields, and so doing that broad 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.480 based advertising works incredibly well for us now. M So 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:54.360 you must have a team. You must have like a 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.480 real audience development team that kind of tracks how you 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.760 how you know kind of who to go, what the 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.720 avenues are to reach the target demos for various classes. 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.439 Do you still kind of employ that very targeted strategy? 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:08.680 Oh yeah, I mean we do lots of work. I 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:12.760 mean in picking an instructor who's you know, who, who 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.679 are they going to appeal to? Who's who? The thing 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.400 they're teaching is that field? Who? Who? What does that 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.440 feel that's gonna appeal to folks? Um? You know what 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.760 things people want to learn from that person after we 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.360 make the class, you know what what parts do people 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:28.640 like and not like? What far as they find impactful 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:30.440 and the exact same thing on the mark on the 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.240 marketing side too. Um. You know, but what I think 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.440 what's been really awesome I need to see is you know, 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:41.200 over the last couple of years, as people have gotten 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.840 more familiar with our brand, they will trust us with 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:49.640 instructors that they maybe don't know but are equally deserving 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.280 and masterful. So you know, for example, last year, we 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.000 launch a class with Ron Finley. Ron Finley is a 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:03.120 self distract self described gangster gardner um and he's rebuilt 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.360 parts of Los Angeles through planting and gardening. And it's 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.440 an at is a gardener, an amazing one, but also 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:14.040 in an activist. And you know, we launched his class 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.240 and people didn't hear of Ron Finley before this, right, 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:21.360 they heard of a Martin's Corsese or a Christian Aguilera, 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:23.040 but they're like, hey, you know, if Ron Finley is 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.320 on the same site, he's probably pretty interesting. And he 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.160 took his class and it did fantastically well because it's 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.040 an amazing class, right, And so part of our responsibuilding 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.120 role is to find people you don't know, but once 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.560 you do, you will love them and love the last 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.880 We'll pause here for a moment and be right back 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:52.920 with more from Masterclass CEO David Roggier. And we're back 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:58.080 with more from Masterclass CEO David Roggier. At what point 0:15:58.120 --> 0:15:59.880 along the way did you find that you needed to 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.760 raise more capital for the business? A lot of points 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:09.119 long the way? Um? You know, Um, film production is expensive, 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.320 ask any Hollywood ceo. Yeah, so a bunch of times 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:17.880 long the way. And also you know, I wanna grow 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.480 as fast as we can and reaches many focus as 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.680 much as possible, and I and UM, and I wanna 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.280 I want us to define the space. And so really, 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:30.920 you know, we've raised you know, quite I think you know, 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:36.600 um up to this, you know, point over two million? Um? 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.680 And yeah, did you find when you went out didn't 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.120 did investors get it? Like since it was something they 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.920 could see, did they get it or was it they? 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.440 At first? It was at first it was very hard, 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.200 very very very re few investors. At first I understood it. 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.120 Now you know, most do, But in the beginning it was. 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.360 It was very hard. And I think that's a part 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.120 of entrepreneurship I didn't understand. To be honest, I think 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:07.560 so much of our society and culture trains us to 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.760 seek praise um in the form of grades of a 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.879 comp you know, of a promotion and a job, you know, 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:20.040 things like that, and and starting a company or joint 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.879 or you know, a brand new project or joint to 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.800 join one that is not the ground. Yet you have 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:31.920 to reject those societal norms because you're by nature you're 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:36.440 choosing to do an idea that most people think is impossible, 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.320 because if they thought it was possible, they would be 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:41.639 doing it right. But I mean, you know, anybody who 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.240 started a project or wrote a piece that other people 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.320 thought was gonna be dumb. I mean you're used to 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.919 hearing that, and only after the idea works do people, 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:52.280 you know, get really jump off mo with you. So 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:57.360 you're gus, um, you know, I still do not hear that, 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.520 but like, but you know, but but I you know, 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.240 I think you have to gain the self confidence and 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.600 faith that your ideas, even other people might not think 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.600 they're good, you still feel they're good. And that is 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.760 a terrifying thought. But once it works, it builds a 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:18.320 self compidence that is addicting. Have you hit the break 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:23.399 even point? That's not something that we share or disclosed. 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:28.280 But but what I can't tell you, I mean, um, 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.280 the growth and traction that we have seen not just 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.800 in the past year, but the year before that, I 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.600 mean was way past our forecasts and estimates. I mean, 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:44.040 you know, before before covid UM we were growing. We 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.399 were growing way above what even we had forecasts and 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.960 plant in covid we didn't know what was gonna happen. 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.960 There were weeks that we were ten x year over 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:56.840 year UM. But to me, what's happened last year is 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:01.760 an ex It's it's acted as an accelerat of trends 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:06.480 we believed were already true. Did you learn anything? I 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:08.000 was just about to ask you kind of what you're 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.440 learnings from the pandemic? Where did you see any like 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.639 you know, as the world went into kind of shock 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:16.639 in March in April, did you see a spike or 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.680 did you see a decreases people fit like, I'm curious 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.119 if you saw patterns over the sort of the twelve 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:26.760 months from like March to March. We did, but they're 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:30.480 not easy to decipher, so we definitely saw spikes. The 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.679 hard part of the deciphering is not every country or 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.280 every state was going was going through the same thing 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.879 at the same time, so you have to really partition 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.840 it out based on part of the world. So it's 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.439 very hard, you know, just to understand all those trends Um. 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:48.360 But one of the trends we saw which was interesting 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:52.399 is the what classes and what parts of classes people 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:58.600 watched a lot. So one lesson that really spiked UM 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:03.760 was we have a new negotiation class with Chris boss Um, 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:07.879 who's a former lead FBI hostage negotiator, and he has 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:11.399 a chapter called Tactical Empathy, which is like how to 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.160 deploy empathy in a way to get what you want. 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.199 And it's Mike, We're like, why is that spiky? And 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.639 you talk to people are Oh, I'm negotiating with my 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.919 husband or with my wife or my kids. Who's gonna 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.480 get to work in the office or who's it going 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.800 on the WiFi now? Right? And so we saw that 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:34.439 spike Ron Finley on the gardening side, we saw that 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.560 spike a lot. We launched a class on in tier 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:42.280 on tier on, tier on interior design that Spike, and 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.920 also a lot of the business classes, so the Bob Iger, 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:50.600 the Sarah Blakely's Uh Animal Tour, because people trying to figure, 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.639 I think, how to lead in this new era. And 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:59.040 that's a book that hasn't been written yet. M Absolutely, 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:02.680 did you find your given the conditions that you knew 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:04.960 a lot of you know, the US was in, did 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.040 you find yourself adding classes to think, you know, looking 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:10.680 to develop classes that might be appealed to people that are, 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.199 you know, mostly stuck at home. Yes, and we were 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.280 lucky that we had already had some of those planned. Um. 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:20.960 But we also saw you know, um, we had a 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.159 chess class with we had we actually had we do 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.960 have a chess class with um Gary casper Off and 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:31.119 these Gambit spiked. We saw that class spiked. Um, we 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:36.600 have classes from Pen and Pen Pen and Teller on magic. 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:38.439 And we saw that spike with parents want to do 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.880 it with their kids. Um, I'm thinking of other ones 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:46.000 we saw spike. We have a step Steph curry on 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.159 on basketball, people doing that with their kids. And then 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:54.520 also a lot of the acting and filmmaking classes. Um, 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:56.959 I think people having time to dive into things they 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:00.320 really cared about, you know, the Samuel l Ja accs 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:04.240 in Spiked Lee. I mean those classes have done fantastic too, 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:08.760 in generally speaking, not just in pandemic times but over 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:12.359 the over the years so far. Are there certain topics 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:15.440 that are just always popular for you certain kind of 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:19.400 broad themes of like cooking, more business or anything like? Yeah, 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:23.040 I mean cooking appeals to lots of people all the time. 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:29.800 So everybody from you know, Thomas Keller, chef Chef Ramsey, 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:32.160 I mean those you know, those class always end well. 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:34.439 But I mean it's really what we found is interesting 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:37.560 is people go broad. I mean people are multi height, 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:41.919 so you might start with the Steph Carey basketball class, 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:45.520 but then loves to take the like Steve Martin class. Um. 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:48.280 And so people actually go broad in their interests, which 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:50.760 is really neat. I made the assumption when we started 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:54.480 talking that this is largely a US business, but I 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:57.240 know you do reach overseas. Can you characterize you know, 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:00.520