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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the

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Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. You can't Stop.

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Speaker 2: And races down hilt.

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Speaker 1: You can try to stop this season stir, but you

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Speaker 1: know you naw win. It is a skill that feels

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Speaker 1: like a gift from the divine. To write an unforgettable song,

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Speaker 1: one that gets stuck in your head or makes you

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Speaker 1: want to dance is a talent that should be exalted.

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Speaker 1: Now imagine it's your life's work for fifty years. That's

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Speaker 1: you Can't Stop the Beat from the two thousand and

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Speaker 1: two Broadway cast recording of Hairspray, written by my Guest

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Speaker 1: Today composer and lyricist Mark Shaman. Shaman is a two

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Speaker 1: time Emmy, Grammy, and BAFTA winner, as well as a

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Speaker 1: Tony Award recipient. He's also been nominated for seven Academy Awards.

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Speaker 1: His five decade career began at just sixteen years of age.

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Speaker 1: His work as a composer, lyricist, arranger, and producer spans film, television,

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Speaker 1: and theater. In addition to the hit musical Hairspray, Shaman

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Speaker 1: is known for co creating the musicals Catch Me If

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Speaker 1: You Can, Charlie in the Chocolate Factory and Some Like

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Speaker 1: It Hot. His film scores include smash hits like The

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Speaker 1: Adams Family, City Slickers, Sister Act, Sleepless in Seattle, and

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Speaker 1: the first South Park Movie. Perhaps most famously, Mark Shaman

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Speaker 1: was also a frequent collaborator with the late Rob Reiner.

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Speaker 1: For Reiner, he penned the scores of classic films like

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Speaker 1: When Harry Met Sally, Misery, A Few Good Men, The

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Speaker 1: American President, and many others. As someone who set out

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Speaker 1: to work in the theater, I was curious how Shaman

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Speaker 1: and Ryner's paths crossed between New York and.

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Speaker 2: La I was lucky enough to work up at Saturday

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Speaker 2: Night Live freelance for you know, after the original cast

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Speaker 2: left and Paul Schaeffer was, you know, the funny Jewish

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Speaker 2: guy at the piano, and then he wasn't there for

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Speaker 2: a few years, and so I started getting that call

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Speaker 2: to go up there, and so I met Billy Crystal

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Speaker 2: and Martin Short, Christopher Guest. I worked their previous years,

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Speaker 2: but I worked there a lot that year that they

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Speaker 2: came on that one year and really hit it off

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Speaker 2: with them all, and Billy Crystal asked me to go

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Speaker 2: out on the road with him, and I would play

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Speaker 2: for his act, even though it was a comic act.

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Speaker 2: He would sing a Sammy Davis Junior, he would sing

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Speaker 2: his other things. And also I would underscore some of

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Speaker 2: his monologues. And so Rob Reiner came to see that

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Speaker 2: kind of heard me underscoring even though there's comedic, but

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Speaker 2: he heard that. And then Billy was making when Harry

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Speaker 2: met Sally and asked Rob, what are you going to

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Speaker 2: do for the music?

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Speaker 1: And Rob said, I need.

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Speaker 2: A guy who knows like every song from the American Songbook.

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Speaker 2: And Billy was like, have I got a guy for you?

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Speaker 2: Because Billy is a real mens like that. And I

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Speaker 2: went and met Rob and I brought him my Rogers

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Speaker 2: and Heart's Songbook because after reading the script, I knew

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Speaker 2: that the song if they asked me, I could write

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Speaker 2: a book ends with the lyric. Then the world discovers

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Speaker 2: as my book ends how to make two Lovers from Friends,

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Speaker 2: which seemed perfect for When Harry met Sally and Rob

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Speaker 2: said you're hired, and that began a lifelong relationship.

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Speaker 1: What did you like about what did you prefer about

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Speaker 1: working with him?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I often think about the fact that

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Speaker 2: once you've established that you have the talent to do that.

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Speaker 2: I know that Rob would say the same thing. It's

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Speaker 2: about the hang. I'm sure you understand and know that.

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Speaker 2: You know, once everyone knows that, you know you got

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Speaker 2: the job and you can do what you can do.

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Speaker 2: It's the pleasure of hanging out with the people that

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Speaker 2: you're with and so you know, Rob and I was

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Speaker 2: always a great hang. When he would come over to

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Speaker 2: listen to what I was doing, we would sit in

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Speaker 2: kibbets for hours and then eventually get around to the music.

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Speaker 2: That's what I mostly think of when I think of

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Speaker 2: him is just the time together, laughing.

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Speaker 1: When you were producing music with him and scoring music

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Speaker 1: for his films, was a lot of that worked un

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Speaker 1: at Warners. Is that where Castle Rock had their equipment,

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Speaker 1: so to speak, where would you go? We went everywhere.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's about just whatever recording studio is available

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Speaker 2: at the time you're recording. When Harry met Sally was

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Speaker 2: the first one, and that one I was just arranging

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Speaker 2: and orchestrating existing music, helping to choose the records or

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Speaker 2: the songs, and deciding whether to use the recordings or

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Speaker 2: create our own. At the same time, Rob's friend Bobby Columbia,

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Speaker 2: who used to be the drummer for Blood, Sweat and Tears.

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Speaker 2: Bobby Columbia had become an executive at CBS at Columbia Records,

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Speaker 2: and he said, I've got this kid named Harry Connick

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Speaker 2: Junior who sounds like he'd be perfect for this. So

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Speaker 2: I was sent up to Seattle where Harry was doing

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Speaker 2: a gig with just this trio. This was before he

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Speaker 2: was blew up, you know, because the movie is what

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Speaker 2: made that happen, and I think we both kind of

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Speaker 2: felt this probably the same with like, well, who's this

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Speaker 2: guy who needs Like we both thought I'm the young

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Speaker 2: whipper snapper at the piano and figuring it out. And

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Speaker 2: the first session when he came down to LA with

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Speaker 2: his trio, I had worked it out with Rob. You

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Speaker 2: know what song, what tempo, what key it had to

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Speaker 2: be in because it had to segue into another record

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Speaker 2: or whatever. And that first meeting, that first session, Harry

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Speaker 2: was a little like, don't tell me how to you know,

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Speaker 2: play or what to play. I'm not just coloring in

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Speaker 2: the lines that you've drawn. I mean it was just

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Speaker 2: a subtext all day. Arthur Murray, Yeah, yeah, so I

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Speaker 2: remember driving home and I think I even called Rob

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Speaker 2: and said, see Mondays with the orchestra, it's we can't

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Speaker 2: have that kind of like big discussions about everything with

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Speaker 2: an orchestra sitting there, you know the clock, you just

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Speaker 2: can't have that. I was petrified of what was going

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Speaker 2: to happen. Meanwhile, it was that song I could write

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Speaker 2: a book, was going to be the first thing we

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Speaker 2: were going to record. They had filmed the scene. This

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Speaker 2: is where Harry and Sally are at a New Year's

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Speaker 2: Eve celebration and they start dancing and they kind of

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Speaker 2: realize there's a chemistry there. And so I had said,

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Speaker 2: this is a perfect spot for that song, and let's

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Speaker 2: make sure that lyric about make two lovers of friends

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Speaker 2: falls right at that perfect moment. And I had orchestrated

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Speaker 2: and I had, you know, adored Nelson Riddle's orchestrations for

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Speaker 2: Frank Sinatra. You know that was my you know, the king,

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Speaker 2: and so I created a Frank Sinatra Nelson Riddle style

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Speaker 2: orchestration for this one moment. And then Harry was behind me.

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Speaker 2: I can't see him, but I counted the orchestra and

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Speaker 2: he starts singing and whatever had happened the previous Friday

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Speaker 2: between us dissipated immediately. We were just fell in love.

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Speaker 2: It was like he was singing like Frank Sinatra and

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Speaker 2: I was doing my best Nelson riddle and it was.

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Speaker 1: Just, you know, it was just together again for the

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Speaker 1: first yes.

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Speaker 2: So then we made that record. So then Bobby Columbia said, hey, guys,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the records that we used in the movie,

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Speaker 2: thank god for us, they couldn't get the rights to

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Speaker 2: use for soundtrack. It's actually mostly el Fitzgerald, whoever negotiated

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Speaker 2: her deals back in the day, made it very different

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Speaker 2: about using in a movie and using it on a record.

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Speaker 2: So he said, how about you guys just make your

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Speaker 2: own record, kind of inspired by the music from when

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Speaker 2: Harry met Sally, here's a couple of dollars. So Harry

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Speaker 2: and I went off to New York and we recorded

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Speaker 2: that album, which blew up.

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Speaker 1: All Sinatra standards.

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Speaker 2: No, it was just all the songs that were in

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Speaker 2: the movie, some of them Sinatra, one of the biggest

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Speaker 2: one being It Had to Be You. And that made

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Speaker 2: Harry connic Junior a star, and it made both of

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Speaker 2: us suddenly the co producers of a of a platinum

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Speaker 2: plus album, and it just that's how it all started.

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Speaker 2: And at the same time I was working with Bette Midler,

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Speaker 2: so that was Beaches, and the same kind of thing

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Speaker 2: happened there. An album where I was arranging and orchestrating

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Speaker 2: blew up and I suddenly had these two albums and

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Speaker 2: these two movies, and then damn, it just started one

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Speaker 2: after another.

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Speaker 1: I'm shooting Goes to Mississippi with Rob and Rob was

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Speaker 1: you know, the actress director, as people mentioned all the time,

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Speaker 1: and on the refaget he says to me, you mind

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Speaker 1: if I put the camera in the back of the church,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna put the in the court room. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: put a way in the back, big master of all

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Speaker 1: you guys doing. And you got your big speech, would

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Speaker 1: you do it one more time for me? May maybe

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Speaker 1: do it twice? It was like a three page or

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Speaker 1: two in page monologue court summation. You're gonna put the

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Speaker 1: camera in the back of shoot you might we do that.

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Speaker 1: We'll do like maybe two takes. I go, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: sounds great to be You see what I mean? You

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Speaker 1: got a great piece of dialogue speech. You do it

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Speaker 1: over and over again because you know your next movie,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna say one line the whole day. It's gonna

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Speaker 1: be get down, everybody, get down. So when you're a

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Speaker 1: real dialogue, you know you really like it. And then

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Speaker 1: he says to Diane lad comes to work one day,

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Speaker 1: I'll never forget that's gonna be worshiped. Her worship She

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Speaker 1: has a dog. And she says, and she goes, now, Rob, wow,

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Speaker 1: would I give him the gun? It makes no sense, Rob,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't just hand him the wrath of this piece

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Speaker 1: of evidence that her husband had hidden. He was the

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Speaker 1: judge in the case. So Rob sits down with Diane

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Speaker 1: Ladd on a piece of furniture on this set and

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Speaker 1: talks to her for like forty five minutes. He trys

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Speaker 1: to be goes, would you give me a minute? And

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Speaker 1: I leave? And he talks to her and he and

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Speaker 1: when it's over, he looks, he goes, we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to do this sooner or later. Might as well get

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Speaker 1: it out of the way. Sooner, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: She had to go through her process, regardless of how

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Speaker 1: many gears she was grinding to a halt. And I

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Speaker 1: was amazed how patient he was. I didn't expect him

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Speaker 1: to be that patient because he seems so.

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Speaker 2: That actually surprises me because the one thing I would

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Speaker 2: never say.

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Speaker 1: That he was patient.

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Speaker 2: He was with Diane Love when you say he was

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Speaker 2: an actors director, so I know when he would come

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Speaker 2: over to me, Misery was the next movie, and now

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Speaker 2: I was really composing my own music, and he would

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Speaker 2: always like what he heard, but sometimes he would say

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Speaker 2: can I go here?

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Speaker 1: And then he would sing a note.

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Speaker 2: And it took a few movies for me to finally

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Speaker 2: say to him, Rob, if you're going to keep singing

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Speaker 2: giving me line readings with notes, I'm going to send

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Speaker 2: you to a voice teacher to exactly span your reign.

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Speaker 1: Now, when you did Misery was I told you had

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Speaker 1: some doubts about that because it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: dark movie.

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Speaker 2: Or well, so I had done when Harry met Sally.

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Speaker 2: I had learned how music gets put in a movie.

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Speaker 2: And then Rob came to see an HBO special that

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Speaker 2: Billy Crystal made where I got to score like five

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Speaker 2: minutes of it in a real cinematic fashion, and he

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Speaker 2: called me the next morning and said, hey, buddy, you

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Speaker 2: want to do my next movie. It's a psychological thriller.

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Speaker 2: Called misery, and of course I want to say yes.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't going to say no, but I was petrified.

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Speaker 2: I was like, why would he? I don't know that

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Speaker 2: I can do that, especially a psychological thriller. I mean

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Speaker 2: I would understain if someone thought, hey, you want to

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Speaker 2: do a burlesque, a movie about Vaudeville, I would get.

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Speaker 2: And I had just gotten with an agent, and even

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Speaker 2: my agent, Richard said to Rob, Rob, are you sure

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Speaker 2: he can do this? What makes you think he can

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Speaker 2: do this? And Rob said, Richard, talent is talent. And

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Speaker 2: that became Richard, my agent's mantra on all these other

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Speaker 2: jobs he started getting me where no one had heard

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Speaker 2: anything I'd ever written. He would just give them the

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Speaker 2: Rob Reiner talent is talent. So I've robbed the thank

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Speaker 2: for that, and then I also have robbed the thank

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Speaker 2: for that. I used to smoke dope constantly.

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Speaker 1: Why I met reference to this?

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Speaker 2: I read this, Yeah, so I you know I smoked

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Speaker 2: ope before a movie, before a meal, before sex.

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Speaker 1: I think I just smoked up while you were composing always.

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Speaker 1: So what were you the most stoned on? What's the

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Speaker 1: music that is unearthed from your deepest level.

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Speaker 2: Of stone, No nothing, nothing that's on in a movie,

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Speaker 2: because I just thought I had to get stone before

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Speaker 2: I could write or arrange music. And by the second

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Speaker 2: or third day of trying to write misery, and I

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Speaker 2: was so petrified. Anyway, I couldn't wake up at ten

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Speaker 2: in the morning and take a few tokes. I'd want

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Speaker 2: to go to sleep by noon, and I had to

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Speaker 2: work until ten at night. I mean, writing a movie

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Speaker 2: score is a big time stop. So I thought, let

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Speaker 2: me try one day, can I write music without getting stoned?

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Speaker 2: And I did? And then it was another day and another,

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Speaker 2: and then I thought, let me get through the end

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Speaker 2: of the week, and so Rob Reiner helped me quit

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Speaker 2: pot cold turkey.

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Speaker 1: God did you find that when you were stone? Sometimes?

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Speaker 1: And then you would come back and revisit and you

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Speaker 1: weren't stone. Was the music not what it might have been? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I think it was Hemingway maybe who said write drunk

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Speaker 2: and edit sober.

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Speaker 1: Talk about Ben Midler, because you have collaborations with people

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Speaker 1: where they're doing shows. One thing was like Billy Crystal

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Speaker 1: does his farewell on Leno and you came in. That's

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Speaker 1: that's on Leno shows.

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Speaker 2: Both of Leno's farewells. Okay, there were many of them.

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Speaker 1: You're going on there and what are you doing to

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Speaker 1: help contribute to the.

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Speaker 2: Show writing the special lyrics. I mean, that's something I've

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Speaker 2: done with Billy. You know, we did all those Oscar medleys,

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Speaker 2: the medleys, so for both those Leno appearances. Yeah, the

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Speaker 2: second one, the one that was the actual farewell, that

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Speaker 2: was we wrote for Carol Burnett and Oprah and Kim

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Speaker 2: Kardashian and it was quite a group of people who

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Speaker 2: sang so long farewell. We wrote new lyrics the sound

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Speaker 2: of Yeah. So that's just something Billy and I do

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Speaker 2: all the constantly. You know. The greatest one was with

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Speaker 2: Bette Midler on the final Johnny Carson. I mean, that's

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Speaker 2: a memory of mine. Will it's just you.

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Speaker 1: Never thought you'd cry from Johnny Carson. Yeah, what do

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Speaker 1: you do?

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Speaker 2: You know that the song again one for my Baby

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Speaker 2: went for the Road. And that's the kind of other

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Speaker 2: kind of gig that I do a lot, or did

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Speaker 2: a lot where Bet called and said they asked me

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Speaker 2: to be the last guest.

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Speaker 1: What song should I sing?

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Speaker 2: And I remember I was taking a shower after getting

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Speaker 2: off the phone with her, and I thought it's quarter

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Speaker 2: to three, there's no one in the place. It's about

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Speaker 2: your singing to a bartender who's been listening to you

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Speaker 2: talk and talk and he just wants to go home.

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Speaker 1: And I thought it's perfect. Now you're in a bar

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Speaker 1: with him, you know.

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Speaker 2: So I called Bet dripping wet, I've got it the

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Speaker 2: perfect song, and she always says, yeah, what else she got?

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Speaker 2: But she came over and we worked it out.

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Speaker 1: Quarter to three, there's no one in the place, six

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Speaker 1: cent you and me, so set them up.

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Speaker 2: Joe got a little story I think you should know.

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Speaker 2: And we did change a few of the lyrics at

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Speaker 2: the end, which was rather ballsy of us to change

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Speaker 2: Johnny Mercer lyrics, But we addressed Johnny Carson specifically in

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Speaker 2: the last verse, for all of the years, for the last,

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Speaker 2: for the tears for the class that you showed, tears.

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Speaker 1: For the class that you showed.

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Speaker 3: Make it one for my baby and one.

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Speaker 1: For the road.

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Speaker 2: Had long.

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Speaker 1: Road.

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Speaker 2: And you know that moment was just I'll never ever

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Speaker 2: forget it.

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Speaker 1: The most compelling thing about that, because I've seen that

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Speaker 1: many many times, is how attentive he has. Meaning here's

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Speaker 1: a guy who had the attention span sometimes not every show.

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Speaker 1: If he liked you when you were an old pal

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Speaker 1: and he's right there with Dean Martin and those kinds

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Speaker 1: of icons, but at other times he had the attention

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Speaker 1: span of a TITSI flock and you'd sit there, but

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Speaker 1: he's locked into her eyes. He doesn't move. He thinks

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Speaker 1: he's you'd think he's carry Grant with ingrad Bergman, and

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Speaker 1: that the director kind of knew that that was maybe

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Speaker 1: going to happen, because that angle that had never been

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Speaker 1: used before over Bett's shoulder of Carson watching and listening.

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Speaker 2: It's so you're just mesmerized by it and exactly what

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Speaker 2: you're saying.

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Speaker 1: He's so locked in. Composer and lyricist Mark Shaman. If

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Speaker 1: you enjoy conversations with composers whose careers began at a

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Speaker 1: young age, check out my episode with Paul Williams.

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Speaker 3: Most pop songwriters writing for a film or a stage play.

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Speaker 3: When I have a hit, of course, we all want

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Speaker 3: to have a hit. But because I come from an

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Speaker 3: acting background, I want to advance this story and I

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Speaker 3: want to expose something of the inner life of the

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Speaker 3: character I'm writing for. That was the whole point with Kermlin.

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Speaker 3: There is that he has a spiritual life. You know,

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Speaker 3: I was never a kid that within a gang that

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Speaker 3: had a tree house. When I walked on the set

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Speaker 3: of The Muppet Show, I was with a gang that

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Speaker 3: had a treehouse.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Paul Williams, go

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Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Mark

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Speaker 1: Shaman talks about how he wound up living in Bette

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Speaker 1: Midler's guest room at age seventeen. I'm Alec Baldwin and

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Speaker 1: this is Here's the Thing. Sixteen years old, Mark Shaman

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Speaker 1: decided to leave school and begin working in the New

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Speaker 1: York theater scene. This bold decision paid off handsomely. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't long before Mark found himself playing at Downtown theaters

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Speaker 1: and eventually the stages of Saturday Night Live. Incredibly, before

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Speaker 1: he'd even turned eighteen, Shaman would find himself arranging music

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Speaker 1: for his childhood idol. I wanted to know how he

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Speaker 1: managed to kickstart his career at such a tender age.

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Speaker 2: I went to New York with a friend, I Witman,

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Speaker 2: I met Well, I met Scott Whitman there, which was

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Speaker 2: amazing because I just went to see a musical that

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Speaker 2: was at the Actors playhouse that used to be there

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Speaker 2: in Sheridan Square called Boy Meets Boy. It was like

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Speaker 2: a nineteen thirty style musical, but about two guys. This

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Speaker 2: is back in like nineteen oh exactly nineteen seventy six,

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Speaker 2: and we ran into some other friends from New Jersey

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Speaker 2: on the street and we said, oh, let's let's step

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Speaker 2: into this little place here and catch up. And there

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Speaker 2: was a piano in there, and so I was sixteen

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Speaker 2: and full of you know, vim and vigor, and I

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Speaker 2: went to the piano and started playing, and just like

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Speaker 2: out of an old black and white movie, the bartender

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Speaker 2: was sweeping up and he stopped and he went, hey, kid,

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Speaker 2: you're good, wait right here. And he went down to

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Speaker 2: the duplex two doors down where there was a comedy

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Speaker 2: group that was looking for a funnier piano player than

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Speaker 2: who they had. And they came in and said, can

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Speaker 2: you play together wherever we go from Gypsy? And I

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Speaker 2: played it like it is in the musical. They said no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: can you play it cheesy? I said, oh, you mean

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Speaker 2: like out of bar Mitzvah, like or how Steve and

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Speaker 2: Edie would do it on a merv Griffin where we go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: They were like, that's it, You're hired. And John Michelle,

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Speaker 2: the guy who was sweeping up behind the bar, he

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Speaker 2: also hired me that very afternoon to play at Maurice's

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Speaker 2: Crisis because of I guess, the way I played piano.

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Speaker 2: No one could imagine that I was only sixteen years old.

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Speaker 1: Oh so your talent that the piano obscured your age,

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Speaker 1: you believe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you see pictures of me, I'm.

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Speaker 1: A very boyish face when you were younger, and imagine

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Speaker 1: you were very boyish. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 2: I was like I was a pimple on two legs.

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Speaker 2: I remember that cli so. But John Michelle hired me,

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Speaker 2: never asked me how old I was. And when I

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Speaker 2: turned seventeen that October, I lied and said, it's my

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Speaker 2: birthday and I'm turning eighteen, so I have been here.

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Speaker 2: Well I shouldn't have been. They didn't seem to care,

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Speaker 2: but I was lying. I was only turning seventeen. That

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Speaker 2: New Year's Eve, they lowered me from the balcony in

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Speaker 2: a diaper, and that's when I thought, maybe it's time

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Speaker 2: to move on to another job. But that was my

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Speaker 2: start at Maurice Crisis.

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Speaker 1: Where'd you go from there.

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Speaker 2: I was very lucky my fairy tale. I just adored

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Speaker 2: Bet Midler. When Boogie Woogie Biggle Boy came on the

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Speaker 2: radio when I was like thirteen and a kid in

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Speaker 2: New Jersey, I became obsessed with her, truly obsessed, like

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Speaker 2: posters on the wall, lifting money from my father's wallet

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Speaker 2: and cutting school to go see her in concert on Broadway.

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Speaker 2: And then Scott whit who was the director of that

400
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Speaker 2: comedy act, I started staying at his apartment to play

401
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Speaker 2: for the act on the weekends. And he lived across

402
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Speaker 2: the hall from one of Bette Midler's backup singers who

403
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 2: were called the Harlettes, and they wanted to do their

404
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Speaker 2: own act. And there I was across the hall, and

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Speaker 2: I was at seventeen at that point, and I would

406
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Speaker 2: work for free, and I was right there, and I

407
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Speaker 2: knew the kind of harmonies they wanted from my no no, no, no,

408
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,360
Speaker 2: These are you know, beyond it, beyond yeah, legit. So

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Speaker 2: I became their musical director. Then Bett said, girls, I'm

410
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Speaker 2: doing another tour. I'll let you do a whole opening

411
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Speaker 2: act if you come back, and also be my backup singers.

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Speaker 2: So I was flowing to La and after having the

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Speaker 2: fantasy of running down a n aisle to Bette Midler,

414
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Speaker 2: when I went to see her in concert, saying oh,

415
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 2: miss Midler, I knew every note of every song, of

416
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Speaker 2: every arrangement on every record, Please let me play for you.

417
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 2: I was flowing to La I taught Bett's band the

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Speaker 2: Harlett's material, and then in walks Bette Midler and I'm

419
00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 2: just like a year and a half away from having

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Speaker 2: her posters on the wall, and I'm watching her rehearse,

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00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 2: and she calls out a song to the band that

422
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 2: she wants to do from her third album, but the

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00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 2: music is in on their music stands, and one of

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Speaker 2: the hard lets goes over to Bet and says, you

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Speaker 2: see him back, and Steve Harrington moment very and Bet

426
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Speaker 2: said do you know how to play? No gesturing, And

427
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 2: I got to actually walk up to a stage and say, oh,

428
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 2: miss Midler, I know every note of every song of

429
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 2: every arrangement on every record, Please let me play for you.

430
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Speaker 2: So my dream came true. I hadn't even turned eighteen

431
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 2: and you're seventeen. Yeah. And because she's a frugal gal,

432
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,239
Speaker 2: she said, you know, stick around. I could use you,

433
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 2: but instead of putting me in a hotel, she put

434
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 2: me in her guest room of her rented house that

435
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 2: she was staying at. So and it wasn't even it

436
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,360
Speaker 2: wasn't even a guest house in the backyard.

437
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: La.

438
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 2: I was living with Bete Midler suddenly for the Maize.

439
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: Crisis to Bette Miller's house.

440
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, which was was sort of the same material, only

441
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 2: only the right person was singing at her piano. Yeah.

442
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: What is about her that you sustained? I mean, obviously

443
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: people have these batteries, these linkages between people, and you

444
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: have this profound relationship with her. What was it about

445
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: her that you admire the most?

446
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 2: Well, I just love the way she performs, as anyone

447
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 2: who's seen her does. You know the fact that she

448
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: does it all, that she can be so funny and

449
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 2: then heartbreaking, and how she can turn it on a dime,

450
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 2: how she can change you know, she's just so in

451
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 2: command and she's just the greatest.

452
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: She's the opposite of what my friend said about Chicago.

453
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: My friend said that a famous actress came in she

454
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 1: did the piece to play Roxy in Chicago, and in

455
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 1: that cycle of famous dames that came into the show,

456
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: and he said, she walks in and she leaves, and

457
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: everyone's sitting there quietly, and he turns to me and goes,

458
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: she can't sing, she can't dance, she can't act. She's

459
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,479
Speaker 1: a star. Well that can awesome, which as bad as

460
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: the opposite. She can sing and dance and act.

461
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 2: Yes, And we have a similar personality of you know,

462
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: like the title of my book, never mind the Happy

463
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 2: that comes from my mother. One New Year's Day, my

464
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 2: sister said, ma, I want to be the first to

465
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 2: wish you a happy and healthy New Year. And my

466
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 2: mother defined judaism when she said, never mind that happy.

467
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 2: So that's in.

468
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 1: My where'd you grow up again?

469
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 2: Jersey in New Jersey?

470
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: Right over there? Yeah, over there?

471
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 2: And so Bet had had her father was a similar

472
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 2: kind of personality, and we both just clicked that way

473
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 2: and argue that way. You know, we have a real

474
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 2: brother sister relationship.

475
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: Was she right a lot of the time? What did

476
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: she be alone on you being by most of the time?

477
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: Well, you know, her taste is impeccable, but like I

478
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 2: mentioned before, she's always saying what else you got? She's

479
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 2: just always second guessing? Was a cover every best Even

480
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: that night on the Johnny Carson show. On the final one,

481
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: she asked the band that afternoon, what's his favorite song?

482
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: And they all said, Here's that Rainy Day? And I

483
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 2: could see the wheels turning in her. Even then, she

484
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: was still doubting, should we really do one for my baby?

485
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 2: And sure enough, during that show, she starts singing Here's

486
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: that Rainy Day with him, and he starts singing with her,

487
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 2: which is a whole other magical moment. But I'm backstage

488
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 2: at the piano because the next thing that's gonna happen

489
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 2: is one for my baby, and I have a little

490
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 2: TV monitor on the piano, and I'm having this schizoid

491
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: conversation in my head. On the one hand, I'm going,

492
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 2: this is magical. What's happening between Bett and Johnny Carson?

493
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 2: And he's singing, and he's singing in key and she

494
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 2: the piano players not coming in. Should I join in?

495
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 2: The other part of my brain is coming She's spoiling.

496
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: She knows if this moment happens, she's not gonna have

497
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: to sing the song that we've planned. And I'm like, no, no, no,

498
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 2: I should I should start banging away to make it

499
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: stop or something. But I'm a piano player, I'm a companist.

500
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: I start joining and so I actually got to play

501
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 2: for Johnny Cartson singing Here's that Rainy Day. And luckily

502
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: they came back and said, okay, we're still set for

503
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: the big ballad at the end. So it all worked out.

504
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: But she's always wondering, what else, what else.

505
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: Could it be? You did a piece with Peter I

506
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: did how We're going to describe it in a minute.

507
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: But when I was in college in gw in Washington

508
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: for the first three years, one woman I dated, she

509
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: really got me turned onto a lot of you know,

510
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: what would be pretty eclectic music for somebody from my

511
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: background who was smoking pot in the woods and massive

512
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: people were listening to Beatles, Zeppelin, Stones, who you know,

513
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: British Invasion, rock and roller in my mind know Clapton

514
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: and Moody Blues and so forth. And she turned me

515
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: on too, Peter Allen and it's Live with Peter rolland

516
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 1: and Boss Skags I never heard of, and they turned

517
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: me on him, who I love. And it always takes

518
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: me back to Hugh Jackman and here he's playing Wolverine

519
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: and all the psychotic craziness and murderers and superheroes, and

520
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: he plays Peter Allen on broad I find that rain. Yeah,

521
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: it is breathtaking. Describe how you met him and how

522
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: you we were involved with him.

523
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 2: That was another out of the blue. I got a

524
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 2: phone call from Craig Zayden and Neil Meren. Craig was

525
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 2: going to direct Peter Allen was doing a Broadway concert

526
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 2: called Up and One that was basically just a concert,

527
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 2: but it had a kind of a story of his

528
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: life through line. And they had heard about me from

529
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: this cabaret and Bette Midler's circuit and they called me

530
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 2: out of the blue and said, you want to be

531
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 2: Peter Allen's musical director for the show. I was that time.

532
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: I was ripe old age of nineteen and I was

533
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: was my first Broadway gig. You mentioned Clapton. I have

534
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: to tell you I have a Rob Reiner Clapton story

535
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 2: on the movie The Story of Us with Bruce Willis

536
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 2: and Michelle Pfeiffer. Rob said, buddy, Eric Clapton's going to

537
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 2: write songs for the movie, but would you still help

538
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: figure out how to turn those songs into the underscore?

539
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: And I was like work with Clapton Okay, let me

540
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: get back to you.

541
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, but when you talked about Rob patients in patients

542
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: at the one scoring session, there's a song that Clapton

543
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 2: wrote that runs throughout the movie, but in the end titles.

544
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,959
Speaker 2: We did like a full record version of it. So

545
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: I had a string section and I had this one

546
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 2: evocative chord, a very film noir chord over. It seemed

547
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: to fit the lyric and the chord that Clapton had written.

548
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 2: But it's what we call a C minor major seventh chorded.

549
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 2: But the first time the strings played it, it sounded

550
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 2: a little odd because it can be almost discordant.

551
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: Let's say yes.

552
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: And Rob immediately went what's that? And you know, he

553
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 2: starts rubbing that one side of his head and that

554
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 2: would only like one side of his head would sweat.

555
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 2: He said, what's that? I said, just let me work

556
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: with the strings for just a minute to get the

557
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: right balance. And so I'm working for a few ten

558
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: twenty seconds morning He's still like, what is that?

559
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: What is that?

560
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: And I'm still trying to get my nice chord in there.

561
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 2: And then Eric clapped and strolled out to the conductor's

562
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: stand and said, you know, Mark those chords at measure

563
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: thirty three. I think they're just too attractive. And I

564
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 2: had to tell the whole orchestra, I said. I was

565
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 2: just told to get over it, and the nicest way

566
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: I've ever possibly heard, the classiest way.

567
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: To they're just too attractive.

568
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: Which was true. It just meant it's calling your ear

569
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: too much to it. You're calling too much attention.

570
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: To sleeping out. Yeah.

571
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 2: Also, they him and Rob came over that house once

572
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: to work out stuff. I was also working on the

573
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 2: South Park movie at the same time, and I need

574
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: to talk about in tense deadlines. I had to finish

575
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: what I was writing to get to the orchestrator and

576
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: Rob and Eric Clapton were just talking, and then Eric

577
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: Clapton had his guitar out and I could tell he

578
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: kind of wanted to just sit and jam with me,

579
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: but I had to get back to the South Park

580
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: and I actually had to tell them both to get lost.

581
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 2: So my big chance to jam with Eric Clapton, I

582
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 2: threw it away.

583
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 1: Well. Speaking of the South Park movie, which I am

584
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: the president of the Film Actors Guild, bag big banner.

585
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 2: Of that was the second movie.

586
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: Yesaid was that that was the.

587
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: Team America, which I got I got.

588
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: Fired from you got fired?

589
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 2: Why Well, I'd done South Park bigger, longer, and uncut

590
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 2: and had the greatest, greatest experience.

591
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: Of my life with the two of them.

592
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and Trey Parker is you know that

593
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: word that gets thrown around genius.

594
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: He is a genius.

595
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: He can do it all right, music, lyrics, act right,

596
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 2: wrecked and extremely open and collaborative. So when I got

597
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: involved through Scott Rudin on this on the South Park movie,

598
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 2: I suddenly was the oldert like professor who would help

599
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: Trey realize his vision of creating a musical and that

600
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: that was just the greatest year maybe I'd ever had

601
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: it in the movies. And then so they know, a

602
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 2: few years later, he asked me to do Team America

603
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: and in the same way, never came to listen to

604
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: what I was writing, didn't even come through the orchestra sessions.

605
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: He just trusted me. But then like on the third

606
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 2: after the third day of the recording sessions, the music

607
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: editor played him what I'd been recording and he didn't

608
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: like it. He said, oh, it's too specific to the movie.

609
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 2: I wanted to be like wallpaper music that they he

610
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: felt like those top Gun movies just kind of got

611
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: library music, you know, that was just being like rolled

612
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: out that it wasn't specific enough to the movie. And

613
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: so I had the most awkward meeting of my life

614
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: where they were like, we want you to start over,

615
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 2: but we need it in ten days. Do you think

616
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: you can do it? And not only did I not

617
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: know if I could physically do it, but emotionally I

618
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: was so devastated. I was like, if I have to, okay,

619
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 2: but I think I'd rather just crawl into a hole

620
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: and maybe you get someone else to do it, which

621
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: they did, which didn't make Scott Ruden very happy. And

622
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: Scott Ruden put me under house arrest and I had

623
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: to stay in my house in LA for a full

624
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 2: month until other people came in, wrote new music, It

625
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 2: got recorded in case I was needed to be brought

626
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 2: back in. I wasn't allowed to leave Los Angeles and

627
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 2: I was prisoner of the house. So that was devastating

628
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 2: having just had the most glorious experience with them. But

629
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: that's you know, show business. That's the a lot of

630
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: the points into yeah, yeah.

631
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: Like they say you got ten days and he writes

632
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: the score one of the most legendaries.

633
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 2: In ten days only, I was the guy who they

634
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 2: fired and got. I wasn't Harry Goldsmith. He wrote it

635
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: in ten days. Yeah, maybe I could have pulled it off,

636
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: but I was just devastated and I just didn't think

637
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: I could.

638
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this because I've made films, and

639
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: I made, you know, bigger studio films and starred in

640
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: those films. I haven't seen them. Well, I don't assume

641
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: that at all. But music can make such a profound

642
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: of course, what I want to go is, fellas, if

643
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: the music isn't anything cut it, Yeah, no music.

644
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: Jerry Goldsmith had a quote that he used to say

645
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: to them, Fellas, I could put makeup on the corpse,

646
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: but I can't make it breathe, you know.

647
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: Right, And don't you do you feel that sometimes people

648
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: are saying to you, I want more music here, you

649
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: know whatever?

650
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I had all sorts of experiences like that.

651
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 2: But yes, you know, the music. A movie without music,

652
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: it's just it's even the greatest movies you could watch.

653
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,959
Speaker 2: And if you're watch without music, there's just it's naked.

654
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 2: It's naked. Yeah, it's dry. And then they art is

655
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 2: knowing where and when not to put music and you

656
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 2: know how much.

657
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: Are you usually right about that? Or the director of

658
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: both with the editor. It's a collaboration.

659
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 2: I talk in the book about how on Sleepless in

660
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: Seattle there were two spots that I thought really should

661
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: have music, and Nora Efron was like, I don't think so,

662
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: but you know, go with your instinct and write it.

663
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 2: And when we went to record the music at that point,

664
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: she her personality had changed over a few weeks and

665
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: I was seeing another side of her and at the

666
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: recording sessions when I recorded those two pieces of music.

667
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: When we were finished, she said, it's very nice music. Mark.

668
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: I just wish I had somewhere in the movie to

669
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: use it.

670
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: Jonathan Demi once said to me we were shooting him, but

671
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: he goes, that's a great idea, he said, just not

672
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: for this movie.

673
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, well there you go.

674
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: Thank you, telemen.

675
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: So those are two spots in that movie that doesn't

676
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 2: have music that my agent says sometimes he teaches film

677
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: score classes and he uses those two moments to give

678
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: to the students to say, here are two moments that

679
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: really could use music, but don't have it, so write music.

680
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: There and that way when you send it off to

681
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: a producer and all they get to see a movie,

682
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 2: they know that, you know, they already seeing movie stars

683
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 2: and they're hearing music on here. So I'm very happy

684
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: for those students who are getting to write the music

685
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 2: that I wanted.

686
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: Are you someone who your proximity to the film business

687
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: and your intimate relationship with the film business on this deep,

688
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: deep level of writing this music? And then when you're

689
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: away from that, you don't watch movies, You don't watch

690
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: TV or do you watch programming?

691
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 2: No?

692
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: I watch what do you watch?

693
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: Well? I married an avid sports man, so now I

694
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: watch football and is an avid sportsman. What would you

695
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 2: call an avid sports fan?

696
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: Fan fan not man fan?

697
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I watched sports. If my father was alive, he

698
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: wouldn't believe that when I think of when I used

699
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: to walk into the house and you'd be watching football

700
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 2: with his friends, and I would just quickly go into

701
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 2: my little room and my piano. I had no interest

702
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 2: in football or anything. But now I go to Knicks games.

703
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a sports nut. Yes? What is he like everything?

704
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: Anything that involves a sphere being thrown or kicked?

705
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: Violence?

706
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, he loves it all. It's a real odd couple.

707
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I take one and look at him.

708
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: He's like a villain in a Bond film. This guy,

709
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: he's so good looking and so built, and I've really

710
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: learned to love it. I really do love watching it all.

711
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: Composer and lyricist Mark Shaman. If you're enjoying this conversation,

712
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: tell a friend and be sure to follow Here's the

713
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get

714
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: your podcasts. When we come back, Mark Shaman tells us

715
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: which of Rob Reiner's films he will always stop to

716
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 1: watch on TV and why it's the most meaningful of

717
00:35:45,880 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: his fourteen scores for the late director. I'm Alec Baldwin

718
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: and this is Here's the Thing. Mark Shaman has written

719
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: and arranged music for countless artists such as Mariah Carey,

720
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: Bette Midler, Harry Connock Junior, and Billy Crystal. Whether for

721
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: late night TV, award shows, concerts, or a Christmas album,

722
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: Shaman adapts to the task at hand. I was curious

723
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: as a musician what differences he found between working with actors,

724
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: singers and comedians.

725
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, the thing that makes me think of is I

726
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 2: did Sister act and Whoopy Goldberg, you would maybe say that, well,

727
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 2: you're saying about Billy, you know. And when and then

728
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: when we got together this sing it turns out she

729
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: started singing like a white folk singer.

730
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: She was singing like that. I was like, really, yus.

731
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 2: Not what you would expect to come out of Whoopi Goldberg.

732
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 2: But I put together two friends, Charlotte Crossley and Jennifer

733
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 2: leewe Us, who are very funny girls, who were both

734
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: harlets with Bette Midler and our gregarious, funny, great girls,

735
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: and I knew, well, I kind of figured if I

736
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: put them together with Whoope and we rehearse the songs

737
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: for Sister Rac with her, we'll just laugh and we'll

738
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 2: laugh and we'll have a good time and then she'll

739
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 2: just forget about being nervous about singing. And that's exactly

740
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: what happened. We had a great time, and when by

741
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 2: the time it was time to record and film, well,

742
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 2: we didn't give a fuck anymore about like all the

743
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: other things that she might have been thinking of. We

744
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 2: were just laughing. We were just had such a good time.

745
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: And of course you've record a lot of takes, and

746
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 2: you take a note from track one, and you take

747
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 2: a note from track four. But that's a whole other thing.

748
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's really a matter of yeah, coaxing sometimes,

749
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 2: So whoever you work without thean sonia, Ah, now.

750
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: Your first sociore and into Broadbay was what.

751
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 2: Well. I wanted to write Broadway shows when I was

752
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 2: in my twenties and but couldn't get a break. And

753
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: me my colyricist and at that time life partner Scott Whitman,

754
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 2: we were trying to write shows but we just couldn't

755
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: get in there. And it was the time of the

756
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 2: big British musicals and and then my movie career fell

757
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: on my lap and we were suddenly living in la

758
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 2: for a year. But then luckily, yeah, I mean I

759
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 2: wanted to be Broadway, and then the movies fell on

760
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: my lap, and then the entire nineties I was scoring

761
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 2: one movie after another. And that was the other reason

762
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,959
Speaker 2: why the South Park movie was the greatest gig ever,

763
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 2: because not only was it onto itself the greatest gig,

764
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 2: it suddenly put my name back in the mouths of

765
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: the Broadway crowd. And a woman named Margot Lyon had

766
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: just gotten the rights to Hairspray, the John Waters film,

767
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: and everyone she went to the said, who do you

768
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 2: think should I should get to do the score for Hairspray?

769
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 2: And everyone had just come from the South Park movie

770
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: and said, you got to.

771
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: Get Mark Shaman.

772
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: You got to get Mark Shaman. So that movie led

773
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: me to the absolute dream come true, which was writing Hairspray.

774
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 2: And because Scott had moved to LA with me, and

775
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 2: I had really torn him away from the theatrical community

776
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: of New York, and I was scoring one movie after

777
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 2: another and Scott didn't have much to do. Scott is

778
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 2: quoted as saying in La he learned how to drink

779
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: and drive. Uh. So, when Margo said, you know, I

780
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 2: would you like to write the music for Hairspray's like yes,

781
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 2: And she said who would you like to write the lyrics?

782
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: I said, well, me and my partner Scott, and I

783
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 2: won't do it unless it's me and my partner Scott.

784
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: And they acquiesced.

785
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 2: Well, she said, well, I don't know you guys. As

786
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: a lyricist, I don't know. And I said, well, the

787
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: South Park movie it says additional music and lyrics, but

788
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: you know, music by was what most people have ever seen,

789
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 2: and she didn't, and also she was scared of it.

790
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 2: I think of hiring a couple, you know, like what

791
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 2: happens if they fight? But yeah, So luckily she said,

792
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 2: you know, would you write some songs on spec for

793
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 2: me to hear? And I was like sure, and so

794
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: Scott and I immediately started working and we The four

795
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: songs we wrote are a Good Morning Baltimore, Welcome to

796
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 2: the Sixties, big Blonde, and Beautiful and I Know Where

797
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 2: I've Been, which are still now kind of the four

798
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: tent poles of that musical, which is shows you what

799
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 2: a fairy tale it was in that Usually the first

800
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 2: songs you write for show get discarded along the way

801
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 2: as you start to discover what's needed. But the first

802
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 2: four songs we wrote are still like those strong Snakes ones. Yeah,

803
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 2: and then that just became just the greatest dream come true. Well,

804
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: we wrote a musical with Marty Short Marty Short, Fame

805
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: Becomes Me, which was a one man show but with

806
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 2: a cast, and I was on stage within and that

807
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 2: was a thrill, although it was tough because it was

808
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 2: the kind of inside baseball kind of thing about how

809
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 2: Broadway was full of all these one person shows, and

810
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 2: so Marty was spoofing the idea that he had a

811
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: one person showing him for all the trials and tribulations

812
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 2: of his life, because he's the happiest man on earth,

813
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: so it's not really true. And then catch Me if

814
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 2: you Can was the next one Scott and I did,

815
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 2: which you know.

816
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: Was based on the film Yeah who Comes Ringing Your

817
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: doorbit of Spielberg ring the bell or.

818
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 2: Something, and that in this case, Scott and I we

819
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 2: went to the drama bookstore to get a copy of

820
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 2: Stage Door. Someone had asked us this if we would

821
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: be interested in writing musical stage Door, which is the

822
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 2: old Katherine Heppern movie The Catada Lizar and Bloom. I

823
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 2: hope all your readers and listeners will now you now

824
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: did as far as I'm coogle stage Door and you

825
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: just can do anything. So so we went to get

826
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: that play, but there was a coffee table book out

827
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 2: elsewhere in the drama bookstore of Catch Me if you Can,

828
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 2: about the making of it. And Scott looked at that

829
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: and the pictures of pan Am stewardesses and Leonardo DiCaprio

830
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 2: and all the different disguises, and he said, I'd rather

831
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 2: write a musical of that. And because I knew Steven

832
00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 2: Spieople only through Marty short Christmas parties. One year, he

833
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: brought his clarinet and I played hanakkah ohonnakah while him

834
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 2: and Cape capp Shaw he played the clarinet and she danced.

835
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 2: So I felt like I had worked with him. So

836
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 2: I asked Marty to give me like a phone number

837
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: or email or whatever, and I just wrote Steven Spierberg directly.

838
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 2: I said, we have this idea to do a musical

839
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: of Castrini if you can. So I completely didn't go

840
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 2: through agents or lawyers. I just went straight to the

841
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: man and we got the rights. And how did that go?

842
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 2: It didn't have a long run. It gets done all

843
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: the time now and I go to see it. We

844
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 2: had this idea that it was Frank Junior was putting

845
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 2: on his life as if it was a television variety

846
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 2: show from like nineteen sixty four, which was still the

847
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 2: peak time of like Show Business on TV where Sinatra

848
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: and Judy Garland, where it wasn't cheesy yet it wasn't

849
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 2: like you know the bad seventies, you know Brady Bunch

850
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 2: variety kind of shows. But we couldn't transplant it on stage.

851
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 2: We never quite figured it out with our collaborators. So

852
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: we all adore, but we just didn't quite this flay

853
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 2: didn't completely rise. I mean, I'm very proud of the score.

854
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: I love it very much, and it gets done all

855
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 2: the time now, and I do go to see it,

856
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 2: Scott says. When we go to see it, sometimes it's

857
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 2: like a football coach bringing us into the locker room

858
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 2: after the game and showing us footage of the game

859
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 2: with a laser point, or going that's where you went wrong.

860
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: If we got a chance to do it again, I

861
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 2: think I would know how to like fix it, make

862
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: it or even better. But it's still good. Who directed

863
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 2: Jack O'Brien right.

864
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: But the question also is what I'm told I don't

865
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: know this is intimately maybe as you do. But my friends,

866
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: I think said to somebody said to me that there's

867
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: only four new musicals on Broadbay this year. What's you know,

868
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: whither the Broadway Musical the New Broadway Musical, because they're

869
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: going to have four in that every show that's on

870
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: is going to get nominated. They got four slots.

871
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 2: If only I had because we did some like it

872
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 2: hot it was three years ago and we were just

873
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,720
Speaker 2: at the beginning of coming out of COVID and although

874
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 2: we smelled like a hit, everyone thought we were this

875
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 2: big hit and we ran for a year, but it

876
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 2: should have run for years and years and years.

877
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: But it's so expensive. Now, yeah, that's your critique of

878
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: because I would ask you, what's your critique of brought

879
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: right now?

880
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: Well, the last two shows I've done, people were really

881
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 2: enjoying them, but we couldn't make enough money to pay

882
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: what it cost the weekly. The money is just the

883
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 2: math as.

884
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: I wonder why they can't find a way to bring

885
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: that down.

886
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, And it's only going to keep getting

887
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 2: worse because if you talk to the actors or the

888
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 2: stage crew, they're like, you know, and the orchestra, and

889
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, you understand why they're fighting for what

890
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 2: they want in the next deal. But somehow it's just

891
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: just blown up out of proportion that there is no

892
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 2: kind of middle. You know, if you look at classic musicals,

893
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 2: they only ran for like a year and a half,

894
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 2: like The Music Man or whatever.

895
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 1: It wasn't like now where.

896
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 2: They have to if they don't run for ten years,

897
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 2: it's considered a flop.

898
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 1: Everyone's chasing it.

899
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: It's just impossible. So not many get to grabbed that

900
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 2: brass ring the way that you could back in the day.

901
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: Who are people out there that you admire? Alfred Newman,

902
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: you know, John Williams, any contemporaries. I mean, who's somebody

903
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 1: now that you like? You think there's work is good.

904
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 2: There's a great guy. The last time I was nominated

905
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: for an Oscar, I lost to Ludwig Gorenson for what

906
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: he had written for Black Panther, and I had written

907
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 2: for Mary Poppins' Returns, and I kind of thought maybe.

908
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 1: Black Panther, Mary Poppins.

909
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, it was my, it was my.

910
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 2: It was my seventh nomination. I thought this might be

911
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 2: like my Susan Lucci moment. But Ludwig one. But he's

912
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 2: a sweet guy and he's brilliant. He just did Sinners

913
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 2: he so he's someone I very much admire. And he's

914
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 2: also so sweet and so nice and just such a

915
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 2: great guy.

916
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: So there were pieces in the classical repertoire that I

917
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 1: just weep. Saw Organ Symphony, whatever, there's the alot of

918
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: thing a Dvoreshoch, New World whatever. I'm a classical nut

919
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: are the pieces you've written or the pieces you've been

920
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: involved the movies and scenes with the picture in the

921
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: move music match which brings you to tears like they're

922
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: really powerful to you.

923
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 2: The one that and obviously now more than ever is

924
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 2: the American President with Rob Reiner, and god knows, because

925
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 2: of what's happened in America, all these things converge to

926
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 2: make that piece of music. I got to write for

927
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 2: that movie very very meaningful to me, and I'll.

928
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: Try not to start weeping, but.

929
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 2: It was a beautiful movie and I got to write

930
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,399
Speaker 2: music that was just full of the respect that one

931
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 2: used to have for the American President. Yeah, exactly, And

932
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 2: it works so well. And it's one movie of mine

933
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 2: that I could if I channel hop up across it,

934
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 2: I'll stick with it.

935
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: Michael Douglas was phenomenally phenomena.

936
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 2: So yeah, So the music for that one is meaningful

937
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 2: to me on so many levels. So and I did

938
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: you know, I did a concert last year and see

939
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: and Diego and I'm at the piano and kibbitzing with

940
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 2: the audience. But for that one piece, I did get

941
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 2: up and conduct the orchestra, which is a very hard thing.

942
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,839
Speaker 2: To do conducting an orchestra and making them go at

943
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 2: the speed that you want. That's a real talent that

944
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 2: I don't really have because I'm in a companist. So

945
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 2: I let them lead, which you can't do because suddenly

946
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 2: it gets much slower. But I was conducting it to

947
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 2: the film the main title, so I had to keep

948
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 2: them going. And now, of course, I mean, I'm lucky

949
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 2: that I had this moment with Rob in a Sedona.

950
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 2: There's a Sedona Film Festival and I was an honoree

951
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: one night, and Rob was the honoree the next night.

952
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 2: And for the Rob night, they showed this beautiful pristine

953
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 2: print of the American President, which I had seen on

954
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 2: TV a lot, but I'd never seen it up on

955
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 2: the screen again. It had been maybe twenty years. So

956
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 2: I just watched this beautiful movie and got to hear

957
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: this music. I got to write for it, and it

958
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 2: was so grateful to Rob Reiner for everything, and especially

959
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 2: this movie and especially what it's about and what had

960
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 2: just started happening with Trump, and it just all bubbled up.

961
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 2: And so my job was to then go to the

962
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 2: mic and introduce Rob. The audience knew me from the

963
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 2: night before, and it was my job to introduce Rob,

964
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 2: and I was, you know, I had a whole bunch

965
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 2: of jokes. I was going to crack. And I got

966
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 2: up there at the mic and just started sobbing, just

967
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 2: absolute couldn't get a word out, just stamping my feet.

968
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 2: All I tried to say was I'm so grateful to

969
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 2: Rob Reiner and and so the tears had to just

970
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 2: completely speak for me.

971
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: My thanks to composer Mark Shanmon. I'll leave you with

972
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: a piece of Shaman's score from Rob Reiner's The American President.

973
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 1: I'm alec One. Here's the thing that's brought to you

974
00:49:01,840 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: by iHeart Radio.