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Speaker 1: Hey, want to welcome in.

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Speaker 2: I'm Doug Gotti. This is all ball.

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Speaker 1: Well, we've kind a national champion. It is Yukon and

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Speaker 1: they took down Purdue. I'm gonna give you probably five

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Speaker 1: minutes here on the state of Yukon, the state of Purdue.

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Speaker 1: Why I think we saw the results that we saw,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll get to our guest, Dan Paraman, who

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Speaker 1: is really is the biggest I think nil and agent

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Speaker 1: in college basketball. He's not the only one, there's other

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Speaker 1: really good ones, but Dan is He's just a very

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Speaker 1: interesting guy with amazing backstory. And I think you'll enjoy

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Speaker 1: our discussion. If you don't, hey, you download the wrong pod.

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Speaker 1: You guns defending national champions and they go back to

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Speaker 1: back and it's amazing, and I feel really happy for

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Speaker 1: Danny and I I think some of the perception and look,

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Speaker 1: Danny can be a little insufferable at times, but the

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Speaker 1: best part about him is he knows it. And he

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Speaker 1: said as much, you know, I can be a bit

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Speaker 1: of an asshole, like Yeah. The thing that's interesting and

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Speaker 1: you watch him coach is he coaches guys hard. But

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Speaker 1: the theatrics on the sideline are not directed towards his

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Speaker 1: own players. It's more about the officiating and the fans

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Speaker 1: and is it a little much like yeah, but it

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Speaker 1: works for them, and you know, Yukon kind of has

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Speaker 1: that everybody hates us and we don't care Philadelphia Eagles

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Speaker 1: sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: It just kind of works for this.

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Speaker 1: My takeaways are that the first thing is they're masterfully

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Speaker 1: coached at both ends of the floor. That they won

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Speaker 1: the thing because their defense, not their offense. Yes, the

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Speaker 1: their offense have great ball and personal movement, yes, but

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Speaker 1: they won because their defense and the game plan was

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Speaker 1: exquisite against Purdue. And the execution anybody can say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're not leaving shooters, we're not helping the post. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and then we got a box out because they crashed

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Speaker 1: like badman. Anybody can say that they actually did it.

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Speaker 1: There's a commitment to the scout that's amazing. And then

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Speaker 1: of course offensively, they're beautifully coached, they play and they

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Speaker 1: have good players. But I would say two things were

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Speaker 1: at play there. One, they had better players than Purdue.

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Speaker 1: And we can sit here and go like, well, they

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Speaker 1: haven't played the portal game, but they don't win a

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Speaker 1: national championship unless they go and get you know, spencer,

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Speaker 1: and you know the mop is a transfer and they

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Speaker 1: don't get him unless Joe Dooley gets fired, right or

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Speaker 1: maybe you know, maybe maybe not. I don't know interest

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Speaker 1: in Newton, but they had four pros in their starting

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Speaker 1: a linele like Caravan's good. That guy's that's a starting

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Speaker 1: wing player in the NBA. I think because he can guard,

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Speaker 1: he can shoot, he's tough, and castle you know your

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Speaker 1: ability to play a freshman because he just competes and

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Speaker 1: for the most part knows he's not a great shooter.

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Speaker 1: Obviously in the Semis, Bama dared and shoot. He hit

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Speaker 1: those two threes, but then he knows his role. And

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Speaker 1: then you know, Clinging is just an impressive weak side

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Speaker 1: shot blocker, roll guy.

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Speaker 2: And you know when they blew the game open.

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Speaker 1: Both the Semis and the finals were with Clinging on

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Speaker 1: the bench, and you go in and bring a kind

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Speaker 1: of a pogo stick rim runner and they can kind

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Speaker 1: of change the way they play.

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Speaker 2: But I think we have to admit that they're massively coached.

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Speaker 1: The kids are locked in, the scouts share the basketball,

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Speaker 1: unbelievable fan support, and a coach that has at least

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Speaker 1: for that school, he knows how to get the energy

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Speaker 1: out of everybody in the roster.

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Speaker 2: He knows how to get it done.

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Speaker 1: Now it's going to be a whole new world now

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Speaker 1: because you probably lose.

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Speaker 2: Your entire starting lineup.

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Speaker 1: We'll see with Caravan, that'd be the only guy I

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Speaker 1: would think that might come back. But they're going to

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Speaker 1: have to go out in the portal and they're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to find guys to fit their culture. And now

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Speaker 1: it gets now it gets really interesting, right because Clinging

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Speaker 1: can't stay.

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Speaker 2: He just can't. Does he have to develop more?

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Speaker 1: Is shooting? Yes, a little bit postplay, sure, but give

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Speaker 1: me a lottery.

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Speaker 2: Picky can't.

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Speaker 1: Newton can't stay. So that's gonna be interestingly for it.

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Speaker 1: As for Purdue, you saw them bumping up against the ceiling.

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Speaker 1: They play hard, they accept their roles. It's really a

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Speaker 1: work of art. How physical they are, how intense they are,

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Speaker 1: very similar to Yukon that the level of intensity of

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Speaker 1: their games is different than the level of intensity of

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Speaker 1: most bill skins. The thing I'd be disappointed in though,

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Speaker 1: is the hitting the posts and standing like it wasn't working.

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Speaker 1: And to not have splits, to not have forty five cuts.

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Speaker 1: You know, you never use your big you know, on

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Speaker 1: Spinulu's action or flare screens, you know, there's no split

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Speaker 1: action when you hit the post, and they just don't

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Speaker 1: have good enough guys to go create their own shot.

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Speaker 1: They physically couldn't get up. They took seven and I

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Speaker 1: think three were blocked. So you got four clean looks

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Speaker 1: at the basket from three all game long.

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Speaker 2: That's unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: One great defense and locking in a scarraport, but two

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Speaker 1: that's just a lack of ball and player movement creativity offensively,

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Speaker 1: let's call like it is, and I get it, you

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Speaker 1: got away with it for thirty five game games. But

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Speaker 1: this is a game which they just didn't They were

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Speaker 1: just out talented and they didn't have an offense or

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Speaker 1: offensive style that could really help them. So I think

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Speaker 1: that Purdue, you know, I know they don't want to

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Speaker 1: sell their souls. You know, they took the only grad

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Speaker 1: transfer they took was you know, a mid major in

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Speaker 1: Lance Jones. He's a good player, but again, at that level,

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Speaker 1: you're going up against guys that are huge. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Spencer's the only one who's below his the size of

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Speaker 1: positional size, and because he's twenty four and kind of

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Speaker 1: a master with playing off two feet. But you can

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Speaker 1: get away with one guy like that, you can't get

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Speaker 1: away with multiple guys. And they have despite the fact

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Speaker 1: that I would get I mean, look, they're going to

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Speaker 1: keep those two guards that can keep getting better. But

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Speaker 1: I Fletcher Lawyer. He looked young in that game. He

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Speaker 1: did not look like he could play in that game.

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Speaker 1: And though I would Brayden Smith was really good for

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Speaker 1: the first half and solid for the game.

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Speaker 2: Obviously you saw against NC State.

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Speaker 1: Kind of got out of athlete and even in that game,

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Speaker 1: you know it was because there was no natural health

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Speaker 1: defense that he was able to get some creases and

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Speaker 1: make some plays. But the Braden Smith was good enough

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Speaker 1: to play in that game, but not good enough considering

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Speaker 1: the overall talent. And now you're going to take Dye

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Speaker 1: off of that team. And I think Purdue will Bobby Rogressa.

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Speaker 1: They'll always be good, they always be solid, But that

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Speaker 1: is unless they can get a little bit more talented wings,

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Speaker 1: a little bit more athletic dudes. I think that's their ceiling.

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Speaker 1: All right, Let's get to our conversation with Dan Pondman.

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Speaker 1: He is an incredible, incredible story. How did it start well?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Now he's arguably the most powerful agent in college basketball.

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Speaker 2: How did it start? Take a listen, here's my conversation.

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Speaker 1: You've become the foremost college basketball agent and nil guy?

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Speaker 2: How that happen?

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Speaker 1: How that start?

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Speaker 3: All?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: Well, I guess to tell you how I got to here.

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Speaker 3: I have to kind of tell you my backstory. So

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Speaker 3: I'm thirty two years old. I started in this business

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Speaker 3: when I was fourteen, So.

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Speaker 1: I was like, wait, wait, wait, fourteen fourteen.

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Speaker 3: So I was born in Evanston, Illinois. And this was

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Speaker 3: like right before social media started. It was like two

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Speaker 3: thousand and five. There was a blog called Chicago hoops

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Speaker 3: dot com. I was a freshman sitting in a computer

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Speaker 3: lab and I found a website that ranked the top

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Speaker 3: twenty freshmen in the state of Illinois. And I played.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't very good. Like I played. I was like,

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Speaker 3: you know, white kid at the end of the bench

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Speaker 3: on the good AAU team like I was. I was

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Speaker 3: good enough to be there, but not get on the court.

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Speaker 3: And I saw these rankings, and I saw friends that

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Speaker 3: I played with ranked as freshmen in the state, and

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Speaker 3: it blew my mind that players my age, that my

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Speaker 3: friends were being talked about on websites and message boards.

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Speaker 3: So I was a freshman, I decided to start a website,

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Speaker 3: illinoishs basketball dot com with the real rankings for high

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Speaker 3: school players Illinois. So website blew up and I spent

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Speaker 3: my high school years writing about high school basketball. I

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Speaker 3: would take the train around the city, my dad would

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Speaker 3: drive me around. Eventually I got my license and I

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Speaker 3: just did interviews, player ranking, scouting reports. So this was

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Speaker 3: pre social media, so colleges couldn't watch film on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: This is then you have to send a DVD in

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Speaker 3: the mail if you wanted them to see her film.

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Speaker 3: So I became like an area scout for a lot

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Speaker 3: of college coaches. So that's time I was done with

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Speaker 3: high school. I was working with pretty much every coach

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Speaker 3: in the country that was recruiting. Chicago utilized me as

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Speaker 3: their local scout. I didn't go to college. Became a

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Speaker 3: full time scout after high school, so I was essentially

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Speaker 3: doing nil, you know, before there was money involved. I

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Speaker 3: was helping guys pick schools. I was helping doing the

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Speaker 3: transfer portal before the transfer portal. So I spent a decade,

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Speaker 3: you know, kind of honing the skill of college player placement,

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Speaker 3: placing hundreds of guys over a decade from age fourteen

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Speaker 3: to twenty four. Twenty four, I needed to start making money,

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Speaker 3: became an agent.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, but let's we'll get to that

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Speaker 1: in a second. Okay, So, and and just it's really

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Speaker 1: really fascinating me, and I know some of this, but

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Speaker 1: it's it's interesting because you know, my late father would

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Speaker 1: he turned helping kids out right. His thing was with

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Speaker 1: his AU program. He wanted every kid he coached to

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Speaker 1: play in college, but at whatever love verbly on scholarship,

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Speaker 1: and he turned that into a kind of placement business

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Speaker 1: where a lot like you, right, he would try and

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Speaker 1: find the right fit for the right player at the

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Speaker 1: right level because he knew everybody in college much like

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Speaker 1: you did, much like you learn, like because of fifty

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Speaker 1: sixty years around basketball. And then eventually, you know, somebody

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Speaker 1: kind of said to him, like, you know, you should

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Speaker 1: charge people money for this, right, you're putting together all

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Speaker 1: these highlight tapes and you're calling all these coaches. Why

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Speaker 1: don't you make some money doing this?

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Speaker 2: And he did.

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Speaker 1: He turned into a business. So you're in high school, like,

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Speaker 1: what did your parents think?

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Speaker 3: Well, so it was funny, like when it started, it

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Speaker 3: wasn't supposed to be a business. It was a hobby

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Speaker 3: that a high school kid was doing, you know, in

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Speaker 3: my spare time at night, in my bedroom. You know,

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Speaker 3: I would go to any of U tournaments with a

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Speaker 3: little those little black and white notebooks, you know, and

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Speaker 3: I would just interview players, you know, before smartphones really

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Speaker 3: took off. So I just interviewed players in my notebook,

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Speaker 3: and it was a hobby. And then once college coaches

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Speaker 3: started reading my site and calling me, my parents did say,

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Speaker 3: why don't you charge these coaches? And MY response was

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Speaker 3: if I charged coaches at the time, I'm sixteen, seventeen

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Speaker 3: years old, maybe half or a quarter, we'll pay my

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Speaker 3: pay my fee. But I was like, I'm sixteen years

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Speaker 3: old and I have Bruce Weber and Mike Krzyzewski calling

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Speaker 3: me during chemistry class. Why am I limiting who I

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Speaker 3: can talk to based on who's paying me? What do

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Speaker 3: I need money for? My website was doing some ad revenue, right,

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Speaker 3: So I was getting you know, five hundred thousand bucks

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Speaker 3: a month for a high school kid, that's a million dollars.

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Speaker 3: That's unlimited money. I could buy beer, I could go

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Speaker 3: out to eat with my friends. So I told my

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Speaker 3: parents at the time, I'd rather build relationships. These are

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Speaker 3: worth more. One day this will come, this will work out,

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Speaker 3: Like one day, these relationships will pay off.

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Speaker 1: What did your parents do for a living?

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Speaker 3: My dad trade stocks, My mom's a writer, she's an author.

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Speaker 3: So I was, like a good middle class family, like

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Speaker 3: I was. I was, We're doing fine, roof over my head.

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Speaker 3: They could pay for my AAU tournament fees when I

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Speaker 3: played my club volleyball fees. I was, I was fine, right,

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Speaker 3: I didn't need to like support the family. I needed,

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Speaker 3: you know, pocket money for the weekends, you know. So

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Speaker 3: you know I did. I ran some camps like It's funny.

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Speaker 3: At my first event I ran, I was fifteen years old.

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Speaker 3: I ran an eighth grade All star game for the

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Speaker 3: best eighth graders in the state and Anthony Davis six

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Speaker 3: foot tall Anthony Davis was invited to that Ryan Boatwright,

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Speaker 3: who was committed to USC at the time. So I

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Speaker 3: ran like little events like that, like charged kids forty

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Speaker 3: bucks a pop to be in my eighth grade all

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Speaker 3: star game, Like I had ways to make money. But ultimately,

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Speaker 3: like I saw way down the road of like if

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Speaker 3: I build relationship with these college coaches, just will pay

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Speaker 3: off for me. And like I used to one more

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Speaker 3: story on how I would kind of was innovative in

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Speaker 3: helping college coaches. I would go to tournaments like I'd

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Speaker 3: go like a holiday tournament right where coaches would have

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Speaker 3: the rosters. You know, the top thirty two teams in

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Speaker 3: the state. You have the rosters, and I would spend

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Speaker 3: weeks ahead of time doing scouting reports on every player

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Speaker 3: in the tournament, but their phone number, their email address,

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Speaker 3: their parents' number. I would make these comprehensive scouting booklets

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Speaker 3: and go up to every college coach. The tournament is

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Speaker 3: given way for free, so coaches would come to try

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Speaker 3: to figure out who's good, and I'd done all the

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Speaker 3: homework handed to them. Here, you know everything about every

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Speaker 3: kid there any in the vision. I didn't know nil

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Speaker 3: would be a thing. I didn't know the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: rule that I could make money doing this. At some point,

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Speaker 3: I was just helping kids get recruited and helping college

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Speaker 3: coaches and it was fun. It was like the most

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Speaker 3: fun hobby in the world. I got these coaches that

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Speaker 3: I see on TV calling me asking me for advice.

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Speaker 3: So I almost ended up going to school at Northwestern

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Speaker 3: is where Taboris Hardy was there with Bill Carmody. I

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Speaker 3: helped them recruit Drew Crawford, John Sharna, Kyle Rowley, Juice

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Speaker 3: to like it was the last good Cormedy team. So

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Speaker 3: I almost went to school there to be a team manager.

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Speaker 3: By the time, I was just like, I love what

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Speaker 3: I'm doing. I love scouting, I love working with all

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Speaker 3: these schools. So I just finished high school online at

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Speaker 3: seventeen and just went when full time just went at it?

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Speaker 1: Were you finished? They had high school online back then.

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Speaker 3: So I went to the principal my school and basically said,

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Speaker 3: you are holding me back. I can't be in these

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Speaker 3: falls every day. I need to hit the road and

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Speaker 3: start scouting. So they let me do my homework remotely

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Speaker 3: and finish high school away from the building. So I

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Speaker 3: left like halfway through my senior year. I never went

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Speaker 3: back to school.

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Speaker 1: So you're twenty four and you said I decided to

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Speaker 1: be an agent. Does that mean you decided to go

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Speaker 1: to law school? That what happen? How'd you transition to

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Speaker 1: becoming an agent?

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Speaker 3: No, my highest degree is Evanston Township High School. I

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Speaker 3: never took the college class in my life. Basically, I

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Speaker 3: was twenty four, I'd been doing scouting for ten years.

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Speaker 3: I was and now the little money I was making

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Speaker 3: wasn't sufficient because I was living in Brooklyn with seven roommates.

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Speaker 3: Needed to actually make real money. And I had a

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Speaker 3: lot of guys that i'd come up with, who I

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Speaker 3: had helped place in college, who I had gone through

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Speaker 3: the whole thing with, and they're coming, Hey, Dan, I

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Speaker 3: need help finding an agent. Will you help me get

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Speaker 3: a job overseas. I had a lot of guys just

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Speaker 3: that trusted me that were asking me for help. I'd

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Speaker 3: brought them from freshman year of high school through graduating college,

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Speaker 3: wanting help in their pro career. I never wanted to

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Speaker 3: be an agent because I had this image in my

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Speaker 3: head because I'd met some agents of like kind of slimy, manipulative,

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Speaker 3: money hungry. It was just like something I didn't want

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Speaker 3: to be. I wanted to be a good guy, you said,

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Speaker 3: like with your dad. I loved placing kids in college.

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Speaker 3: I loved helping people, whether it's a Juco or a

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Speaker 3: d one. I just loved helping people who needed my help.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, what do these NBA players need

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Speaker 3: you for I don't want to be an agent, but

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Speaker 3: I decided finally, at twenty four, I went to get

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Speaker 3: certified to be an NBA agent. It was funny. You're

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Speaker 3: supposed to have a college degree to be an MBA

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Speaker 3: agent the MVPA, so they say on the application you

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Speaker 3: have to have a college degree or sufficient negotiate experience,

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Speaker 3: so make a case for deals. I had negotiated as

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Speaker 3: to why they should let me be an agent, and

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Speaker 3: I got certified. So my first client was a kid

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Speaker 3: named Ben Moore out of SMU. I know Ben Moore,

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Speaker 3: Ben Moore could player. He had gotten to SMU because

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Speaker 3: I had been on an AAU tournament five years earlier

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Speaker 3: with jarens Howard and Larry Brown and pointed out Ben

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Speaker 3: Moore and they recruited him. And then years later he's graduating.

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Speaker 3: So that first year I recruited probably twenty guys. Ben

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Speaker 3: Moore was the only one who said yes, and he

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Speaker 3: ended up making the Pacers as a two way player,

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Speaker 3: one of the first two way players. No way, and

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Speaker 3: now my foot was in the door. I've got a

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Speaker 3: guy in the league. And that was the start of

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Speaker 3: my agent career.

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Speaker 1: What was that like to have your first conversation with

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Speaker 1: NBA people where you're like, no, no, no, I'm his agent

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Speaker 1: and you're literally an unknown.

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Speaker 3: So in the college world, I was a known commodity.

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Speaker 3: I knew every coach in the country. Some liked me,

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00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 3: somewhere annoyed by me, you know, some had guys play

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Speaker 3: for their teams, and the NBA I was still it

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Speaker 3: was a completely new universe. But what I found was

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Speaker 3: when you have a good player, it's easy to make

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Speaker 3: relationships because.

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Speaker 1: Who was always call you back when you got a dude.

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Speaker 3: They always call you back, and you got to dude.

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Speaker 1: And I literally like, Dan, this is so funny. Dead

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Speaker 1: out of sleep yesterday, okay, and I you know what

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Speaker 1: you do, Like I do this again. I've kind of

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Speaker 1: started the process of helping kids out just that I

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Speaker 1: know and all I asked for, Like I just want

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Speaker 1: to help again, same kind of deal, but find a

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Speaker 1: kid the right fit because like everything to this is

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Speaker 1: so much about fit right, and so I it's just

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Speaker 1: a handful of kids, but they're people that I have

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Speaker 1: strong relationships with without any sort of the background that

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Speaker 1: you have. So I happen to text seven coaches about

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Speaker 1: one kid. We're recording this on Thursday mornings, so this

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Speaker 1: is Tuesday night. Hey, when you have time, I'd like

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Speaker 1: to talk about such and such if you're interested. Six

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Speaker 1: in the morning, West Coast time, my phone rings. It's

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Speaker 1: an SEC coach. This is six fifteen. It's another catch.

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Speaker 1: It's like, and they're guys, and they're my they're my friends,

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Speaker 1: and I truly do like them, and we talk usually

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Speaker 1: via text, but it's it is usually a bit of

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Speaker 1: a one sided relationship most of the season, you know,

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Speaker 1: where I'm reaching out to them, they're like, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: what's up. Just want to check over with you. But

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Speaker 1: then you got a dude.

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Speaker 3: You got a dude. Yeah, and if you if that

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Speaker 3: same dude wasn't a dude, they would call you back eventually,

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Speaker 3: but not a sixth morning. If it was an OK dude,

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Speaker 3: they call you later in the week. But if it's

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Speaker 3: a they're going to talk and again. So like to

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Speaker 3: the story, I've been more who's not like a first

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Speaker 3: round pick, but he's a Portsmouth guy. He did well

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Speaker 3: at Portsmouth. He's a good player. So you know, I

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Speaker 3: remember he got the Wizards brought him in for work out,

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Speaker 3: the Pacers, the Lakers the Buck. So like I'm building

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Speaker 3: my MBA relationships because I've got this guy everyone's calling about.

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Speaker 3: And I remember that first draft, you know, when the

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Speaker 3: draft starts and they have like little like the little

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Speaker 3: jingle like you know whatever. I remember like getting chills,

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Speaker 3: being like, oh my god, I've been watching the draft

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Speaker 3: since I was I remember being eleven years old at

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Speaker 3: Jewish overnight camp when the draft was one of my

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Speaker 3: parents would send me printouts of who got drafted so

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Speaker 3: I could study it in my cabin. I went the

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Speaker 3: draft of starting, and I'm a part of it. I

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Speaker 3: went to Campshy and Lake Delton, Wisconsin and the Dells.

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Speaker 3: I got kicked out when I was fourteen for sneaking

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Speaker 3: into girls cabins and that was right around when I

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Speaker 3: started starting my website. So it worked perfectly. That summers

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Speaker 3: after that were aau you know. But so then I

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Speaker 3: remember Ben Moore ended up getting a training camp invite.

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Speaker 3: After the draft is done, the third round starts, I

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Speaker 3: second round ends, third round starts. Pacers called me. It

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Speaker 3: was funny. Actually, there was a controversy that year because

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Speaker 3: Chris Wallace was the GM of the of the Grizzlies

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Speaker 3: and he thought that he was getting Ben Moore, and

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Speaker 3: he goes into a press conference and while he's in

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Speaker 3: the press conference, we agree to terms with the Pacers.

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Speaker 3: So Chris Wallace gets out of the press conference, sees

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Speaker 3: the text, he choos me out. So my first draft,

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Speaker 3: I got a guy signed, I also got chewed out

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Speaker 3: by Chris Wallace just just annihilated me. And I was

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Speaker 3: I remember popping a bottle of champagne because Ben Moore

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Speaker 3: got a fifty thousand dollars training camp guaranteed with the Pacers,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, wow, like I'm in the game, this

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Speaker 3: is real. I've made it. I'm all my way.

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Speaker 4: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in

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Speaker 4: the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio

410
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,199
Speaker 4: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to

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00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 4: listen live good.

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Speaker 1: So here's here's the here's the interesting thing, right, like

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Speaker 1: the the the NBA agent of draftics and the fact

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Speaker 1: that you guys stay together that long, tell me how

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Speaker 1: accurate this is?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Everybody's late first or early second, right, and then inevitably

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like college basketball now where you almost

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Speaker 1: want to come in second because you don't get drafted

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Speaker 1: to the level most guys paint up rosier picture than

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00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 1: it really is in order to get the client. The

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Speaker 1: client signs, goes through, everything ends up not being drafted

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Speaker 1: or drafted late second round or whatever. Then he fires

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Speaker 1: the agent, then he comes back to the second agent whatever,

425
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,680
Speaker 1: like it's the agent's fault that he where he got drafted.

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Speaker 1: What's the reality though, of starting out on your own

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00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 1: as opposed to there are guys that have such a

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Speaker 1: deep client list that the second round becomes favors. Are

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Speaker 1: there still the percentage? What's the percentage that are still

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Speaker 1: favors today?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say there are. There are some favors

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Speaker 3: in the second round for sure, and there are some

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Speaker 3: favors when there's those back end like the fifteenth spot,

434
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 3: training camp battles. But I think even though I'm not

435
00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 3: necessarily getting the favors that are Mark Bartlestein are built

436
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 3: build up. You gets I've been in I'm a lifer

437
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,440
Speaker 3: in this business, so I have my own relationships where

438
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 3: sometimes if there's a tie they go with they like

439
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,479
Speaker 3: Dan and I'm you know, I'm a good guy and

440
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 3: people want to see me succeed Again. I think I

441
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,879
Speaker 3: haven't approached this business in a way where I've burned bridges.

442
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 3: I've been dared people to myself, and I think I've

443
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 3: gotten some favors too. But I think to your other point,

444
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 3: like one thing that I faced is I'm not you know,

445
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 3: starting out, I wasn't recruiting lottery picks. I'm recruiting Portsmouth guys,

446
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 3: third round guys, and a lot of them are getting

447
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 3: to the league. Right. I've been scouting background, so I'm

448
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 3: finding guys who are going to overachieve, and then as

449
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 3: soon as they play their first NBA game, all the

450
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,400
Speaker 3: big agents are waiting in the tunnel and they're all

451
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 3: just they're waiting for guys like me to get a

452
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 3: sure guy to the league.

453
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 1: Hey, in baseball. In baseball, there's actually a deal where

454
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 1: guys buy up the agent's deal. Right, if you know

455
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,360
Speaker 1: you get then they'll they'll buy them up and then

456
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 1: you continue to get a percentage of the cut. So

457
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 1: it's different in baseball. But that's like all part of

458
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: the business.

459
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 3: That'd be nice, But because I've had some guys like again,

460
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 3: I had weird luck through my first few years because

461
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 3: like my first draft pick, who we've talked about this

462
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 3: guy before. I think he still could come on the

463
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 3: show at some point. Tyrell Terry was my first draft pick.

464
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 3: I'm twenty seven, twenty eight years old. I have this

465
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 3: kid during COVID who gets picked thirty first by the

466
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 3: Dallas Mavericks six million dollar deal, my first draft pick.

467
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 3: So again I'm like, I'm rushing it. I am twenty

468
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,679
Speaker 3: eight and I just had the thirty first pick in

469
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 3: the draft. Working for myself. This is I mean, I'm unstoppable.

470
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 3: And then he had you know, he had some personal

471
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 3: issues and he ended up retiring after a year, and

472
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 3: which you know, he and I talked yesterday. We're still

473
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 3: friends to this day. He's graduating from Stanford this year.

474
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 3: He's doing great and he got to keep his money,

475
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 3: which was great too, thanks Mark Cuban. But and in

476
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 3: the next year, I signed a kid named Delano Banton,

477
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 3: who again wasn't in the ESPN one hundred. He was like,

478
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 3: not even expected to be. In the conversation, he's unbelievable.

479
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 1: So wait wait, So so I first saw then at

480
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: Vanton when he started playing for Western Kentucky. And by

481
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 1: the way, just see you aware this is a real story.

482
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: This podcast became an idea because of the game I

483
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: did at Western Kentucky. No shit, Yes, so I do games.

484
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: I've done games for everybody. And I did get So Stadium,

485
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 1: which is an app and they have Ota as well,

486
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: so Joe Riley runs their games there and he sent

487
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: me a list of games and he's like, hey, any

488
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: games you can do, just do them. And there were

489
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: two that were back to back days. One was Middle

490
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: Tennessee State. The Middle Tennessee State was rolling back then

491
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to think. I can't remember who they played,

492
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 1: but they played him at home in Murphysboro and then

493
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: wester Kentucky played the next day in Bowling Green and

494
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: it's like a four hour drive, maybe three and a

495
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: half hour drive. So I'm like, you know what I'm

496
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 1: gonna Can I do of those games? So like really

497
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: like yeah, I mean like because it's not a ton

498
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: of money, but I love to go out and see basketball,

499
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: and like you get paid to talk about basketball, greatest

500
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: shit ever, so I and you know, to me, it's

501
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: like everything is about time away from home. Plus I'm

502
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: doing a radio show, Like I try to condense as

503
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: much travel as I can. So I took a red

504
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: eye to Nashville in the morning. So I go and

505
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: I do my radio show in Nashville. You get done,

506
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: I dried to Murphy's Burrow, I do the game, I

507
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: get my car, and I dried to Bowling Green and

508
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 1: then I do my show and the game the next day.

509
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: So I'm in between Murphy's Borough and Bowling Green and

510
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: it is pouring ring And I have this thing that

511
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: I do when I'm on the road, when I quick

512
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: when I rent a car, is I try and find

513
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,239
Speaker 1: the newest car on the lot. Like a new car

514
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: never breaks down, and a new car oftentimes still has

515
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: the serious sex have radio. And I'd let my serious

516
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 1: thing expire, right, So I just happened to get literally,

517
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 1: like a brand new car, like seventy miles on, so

518
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, you're like smells. It might have been a Spike,

519
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: a Malibu. It's not like it's anything, not super nice,

520
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 1: but it's brand new. And I'm listening to Serious Next Time,

521
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: and I'm listening to Howard Stern's Turnout, and I hadn't

522
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: heard of Howard Stern in a long time. And he

523
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 1: has Megan Trainer on and she's telling the story of

524
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: how she made it and that she was the songwriter

525
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: and she played everything on her ukulele, and she had

526
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: one verse too. I don't think it was all about

527
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: that base. I think is I'm gonna love you like

528
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lose you. And she goes in to see

529
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: La Reid, and La Reid liked it, but he's like,

530
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: I want to hear the whole song, and she didn't

531
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: really have the whole song, so she worked out. She

532
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: spent like a day in the conference room learning, teaching

533
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: herself how to play the whole song, and by the

534
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 1: end of the day she plays it for him. He's like,

535
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: let's do let's record it. And then you picked the

536
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: artist and he's like, no, no, you're perfect for it.

537
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: You record it and anyway, so the whole thing, I'm

538
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: i the greatest comment you could ever give somebody when

539
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: I did when I do Trestrall radio is hey, I

540
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: listened through a break or I didn't. I got to

541
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: where I was going and I didn't get out of

542
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: my car until that segment that interview was over. And

543
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: that's what was me. How about this, I'm driving through

544
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: this pouring rainstorm. I get a call and it was

545
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 1: my wife at the time, and she she calls and

546
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: she's like, where are you? And I was like, I'm

547
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: somewhere in between Mercherys Burro and Bowling Green, Kentucky. And

548
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: she's like, I think you're in the middle of like

549
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: a tornado watch. So I actually, like I had to

550
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: pull over and I was under one of those underpasses

551
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: because the weather was so bad in case the tornado

552
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: comes through, like you're taught to be under the underpass,

553
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: And I sat there for two minutes listening to that,

554
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: but I pull had to pull up just so like

555
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: to the front of it, because otherwise I couldn't hear

556
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: the serious XM because the satellite couldn't go through it.

557
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: So anyway, in my mind, I said, yeah, you know,

558
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: I just like hearing people's stories, so I wanted I

559
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: The next day I was calling. I was talking to

560
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: Cowherd and he was launching his old podcast network and

561
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: he's like, whatever you want to do, do it, and

562
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I want to do a basketball podcast,

563
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: but I don't want to make it about like hot

564
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: takes about basketball. I just want to tell stories just

565
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: because because like my my my childhood was about my

566
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: dad sitting around with guys and they're all telling stories.

567
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: And when my college teammates me just tell stories like

568
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: that's all I want. Anyway, So the next day I

569
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: go to West Kentucky and Dona Blanton was the point guard. Right,

570
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: didn't shoot much, but like you're like, dude, that guy

571
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: is like six seven six ' eight and completely controls

572
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: the game. Anyway, That's why I first saw.

573
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 3: I used to I used to have a serious xip

574
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 3: of my car. Used to love to listen to Howard

575
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 3: Stern interviews. They're the best, the best, same thing you

576
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 3: would you sit in the bar and I have to

577
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 3: hear the end of I remember Meghan Trainer. I think

578
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 3: I heard that one too. Troy Carter was a Philly

579
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 3: manager who ended up signing her. I remember this story.

580
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 3: But anyway, Delano Banton, so he was again the next

581
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 3: success slash failure in my story. Was I signed Delano Banton?

582
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 3: He's he was at Nebraska, not on the ESPN one hundred.

583
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 3: I ended up he didn't get invited to the Combine

584
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 3: or the G League Elite camp. He had zero votes

585
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 3: from teams. But my friend shout out to Steve Nef.

586
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 3: He's now a front office agent at clutch, but he

587
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 3: was running the G League at the time and a

588
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 3: player Dicky Jones from Houston got hurt the day before

589
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 3: the combine and I convinced him to let Delano play

590
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: as an injury replacement. On the last day he gets

591
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,719
Speaker 3: in the combine, he ends up killing. He kills the pro.

592
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 3: Dad ends up getting drafted forty six by the Toronto Raptors,

593
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 3: the most unlikely pick in the draft for two years

594
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 3: two point five million. So again, back to back years,

595
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 3: I have tyrrel than Delano, these unlikely guys getting drafted,

596
00:28:58,840 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 3: and again I'm on top.

597
00:28:59,640 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: Of the world.

598
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 3: Well, Delano's assistant coach from Western Kentucky ends up leaving

599
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 3: to become an agent, and Delano goes with his coach

600
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: who recruited him, which I was like, you know what,

601
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 3: I respect it. You know, I worked three months, I

602
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 3: made a nice commission. You went with your guy. We

603
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 3: have a great relationship. But now here I am back

604
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 3: to back years. Two guys drafted with guaranteed money, zero

605
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 3: clients in the NBA like that stuff the business such

606
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 3: as life, And at this point I'm like almost seriously questioning,

607
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: like is the universe telling me that I shouldn't be

608
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: doing this, Like I've reached these peaks and I just

609
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 3: keep getting knocked on my ass, Like, God, are you

610
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 3: telling me I'm not supposed to be an agent? Should I, like,

611
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: you know, go back to running a nonprofit in Chicago,

612
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 3: just helping kids. Are you telling me to run away

613
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 3: from this? And this is around the time that the

614
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 3: Supreme Court ruled that college players can get paid on

615
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: their name, image of likeness. And at the time, I

616
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 3: didn't totally see what it was going to become. It

617
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 3: was like at the time, it's like, oh, you can

618
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 3: get at you know, sponsorships from the local pizza shop,

619
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 3: or you know, if you're Zion Williams and you can

620
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 3: get a Nike deal. But I the first few months,

621
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,479
Speaker 3: I didn't totally know what was going to happen. But

622
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 3: it was that first transfer season. I had a guy

623
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 3: who I was helping transfer like I've been doing for

624
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 3: twenty years. This is every year, even when I was

625
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,479
Speaker 3: an agent, and you know, doing that full time. Every

626
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 3: year there's a few kids who are transferring, I'm helping

627
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 3: find a new school. It's just I do it because

628
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 3: I love it. It's a skill set that I've honed

629
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 3: over two decades. So I've began transferring and one school

630
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 3: was like, Hey, we've got this thing called the collective

631
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 3: where our boosters have pooled money. We can get this kid,

632
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 3: you know, X amount of dollars guaranteed per month if

633
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 3: he comes to our school, you know. And it clicked

634
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 3: to me like, holy shit, collect anile collected. Everybody's going

635
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 3: to start doing this. So I had this the first year.

636
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: I had this one kid who got a nice anile

637
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 3: collective deal when he transferred. And then I spent the

638
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 3: next year talking to every one of my college coaching

639
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 3: friends like, hey, guys, this is where the business is going.

640
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 3: These things called anile collectives are popping up. This is

641
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 3: how it's going to reshape our game. I immediately from

642
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 3: that first deal kind of saw where this was going.

643
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 3: And here we are three years later, and every school

644
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 3: as a collective, some of them have five million dollars,

645
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: and I represent more high major players than anybody else

646
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 3: in college basketball. Because I just kind of saw where

647
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 3: this was going, and it was the perfect merger of

648
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: the two eras of my life. It's I have eighteen

649
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 3: years of experience placing guys in colleges and knowing how

650
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 3: to find perfect fit and those relationships I honed when

651
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 3: I was in high school that I told my parents

652
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 3: would pay off one day. Well, now every school in

653
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: the country has some guy I knew when I was

654
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 3: sixteen and they were a GA and now they're the

655
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 3: head coach, right, and then combining that with my NBA

656
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: agent experience, it was just kind of this perfect merger

657
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: of worlds for me to assert myself as the guy

658
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: in college basketball. And it's worked out pretty well so far.

659
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: So what's the reality to how it works? At what

660
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: point in time during this season.

661
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 3: Did you.

662
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: Make contact with it like a new client? Like how

663
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: does that? How does that come?

664
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 3: What's that?

665
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: What's the timing of Like how does it actually come

666
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: to be?

667
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's an interesting dance, okay, because I try

668
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 3: to do things right. I try to operate in good

669
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 3: faith and like the reality is, yes, there is money

670
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 3: to be made by signing really good players who are

671
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 3: going to transfer right the open market leads to profit.

672
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 3: But I'm also friends with the coaches at the schools

673
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 3: the guys are leaving, right, So it is this delicate

674
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 3: dance of I don't want to be hitting up the

675
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 3: mid major player where I'm friends at the head coach

676
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 3: telling them, hey, dude, you can make this much money

677
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 3: in the portal because I'm friends with the coaches on

678
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 3: both sides. So it puts me in this position where

679
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 3: every step is like this ethical moral the lemma of

680
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 3: how what's the best way to operate, what's what's the

681
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 3: way right? Not of just how do I make money

682
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 3: short term, but how do I do what's right for

683
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 3: all parties involved? So it's different free situation. I had

684
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 3: mid major coaches call me in December of this past

685
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 3: year say, hey, my best player is averaging twenty points

686
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: a game and he's definitely moving up a level. Will

687
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: will you talk to him? Will you sign him? I

688
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 3: want him to have be in good hands and yeah.

689
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 3: And I had a coach to say, just keep them

690
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: focused during the season, like, don't they don't want a

691
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: million people reaching out saying I got this deal at

692
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 3: this school, this deal, Hey, you handle it, you sign them,

693
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 3: keep them focused till the seasons done. So my favorite

694
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 3: situation is when the mid major coach knows the guy's

695
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 3: leaving and just says, look, Dan, I want you to

696
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 3: look out for him and maybe find me a replacement

697
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 3: because there's going to be some high major where a

698
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 3: kid didn't get enough playing time that needs to move down.

699
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 3: Maybe you can find me someone to replace the kid.

700
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 3: And I think that's the way it should operate, because

701
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you're in mid major

702
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 3: school and you have a kid averaging twenty a game

703
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 3: and he's making zero dollars nine times out of ten

704
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 3: hit in the portal, he's going to get paid.

705
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: What about what about kids that are at high majors

706
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: are doing well and are being compensated. And then you'll

707
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: have you go to do a game and everybody's like, yeah,

708
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: you know, he's in he's he's in the portal. You

709
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: know what, what does it like to do business that way?

710
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 3: Well, that is one challenging aspect of this business is

711
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 3: like the retention negotiation where it's like, Hey, this guy's

712
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 3: already on your team. He could get this on the

713
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 3: open market, but I don't. But he's happy there. I

714
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 3: want him to stay, so can we work out a

715
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 3: deal to make him happy so he doesn't have to

716
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 3: look elsewhere? And that's always college coaches. High major college

717
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,919
Speaker 3: coaches are used to being dictators. They're used to having

718
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 3: full control of their programs for the last you know,

719
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 3: however many years. So for a kid to say this

720
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 3: is what I'm worth to stay is really tough pill

721
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 3: to swallow for high major head coaches. And I've had

722
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 3: at the Final Four this weekend. I had some really

723
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 3: uncomfortable conversations with Mount Rushmore level high major coaches where

724
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 3: but again, my thing isn't like he's going to hit

725
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 3: the portal if you don't give him this. It's look, man,

726
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 3: he's in a good situation. He's happy where he's at.

727
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 3: He could get this in the open market, but he's

728
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 3: not leaving. But just be fair. Let's compensate him fairly

729
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 3: for what he did last season. And some people are

730
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 3: cool with that, and some coaches are easy to do it,

731
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 3: and some it's a nightmare. It's like pulling teeth because

732
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 3: they're used to being dictators and having full control of

733
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 3: their program. So every situation is different. But it's my

734
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 3: job to understand the relationship dynamics, understand the personalities of

735
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 3: each school, of each coach, understand the personality of the players.

736
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 3: Is to be a bridge, right, So a kid's not

737
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 3: marching into the coach's office saying pay me five hundred

738
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 3: grand or I'm out. It's like, no, let me be

739
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 3: a buffer. Let me work both and find a bridge

740
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 3: where everyone's going to be happy. Like, my goal isn't

741
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,959
Speaker 3: to rake schools over the coals and make these dudes

742
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 3: pay out the eyeballs. My goal is for everyone to

743
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 3: be happy. Build a bridge where you have a happy player,

744
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 3: happy coach win basketball games.

745
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 1: One of the things, and I think the head coaches

746
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: struggle with is not just the control aspect, it's the

747
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: it's the you know, I think I'm worth this and

748
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: you're like, dude, and you know, you know it is.

749
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: It's it's like liar's poker. You know, no one knows

750
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: the reality of it or whatever. And I know it

751
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: is your job to have to really be able to

752
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: if if said player was available, what would it be

753
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: worth to you? Right, That's that's really what you're the

754
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: Other part of your role is to give somebody reasonable

755
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,959
Speaker 1: But how do you come upon that valuation? I guess

756
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: is the is the big question.

757
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I deal with this all the time, and

758
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 3: I think, again, I can't speak on the top of

759
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 3: all agents, there are some It's funny in the Nile

760
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 3: agent space, there are some people like me who are

761
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 3: MBA agents for a decade and have decided to work

762
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 3: in the college space as well. We know what we're doing.

763
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 3: And then there are people who just graduated college and

764
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,439
Speaker 3: call themselves an annile agent and have no clue what they're doing.

765
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm not going to put all agents in

766
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 3: the bucket same bucket. But for a good agent, this

767
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 3: is our job all year to understand the marketplace, understand values,

768
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 3: understand what a player like this would be worth. And

769
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: there's two valuations. There's what is the actual market value

770
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 3: at you know, for most of the schools that are

771
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 3: going to be in the conversation, and then what are

772
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 3: the outliers? Right? Every year there's a few schools with

773
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 3: absurd budgets that are going to throw crazy numbers. I'm

774
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 3: not going to say which ones are that, but there

775
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 3: are a few schools in this market where you're going

776
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 3: to have five offers at three hundred and one at

777
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 3: six because someone's just coming with it. You know who knows.

778
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 3: Arkansas probably the next one in that space. All signs

779
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 3: point to that, right, there's going to be the outloders, right,

780
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 3: and you don't use an outlier number to leverage against

781
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 3: a current coach for retention, because that's not fair. If

782
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,399
Speaker 3: I came and said, well, Arkansas is offering this, it's

783
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 3: like yeah, because they have unlimited money, right.

784
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: So it's a desperation there to flip it and be

785
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 1: really good.

786
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 3: Right, and they got to build a roster fast, so

787
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 3: they're gonna be desperate. But it's like my job to

788
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 3: understand what is the actual market rate for this player

789
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 3: based on you know, other players like them, What are

790
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 3: they making, how much the schools want. It's my job

791
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 3: to know. And what's tough is some of these coaches

792
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 3: they're worried about coaching the team all year. They're not

793
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 3: serving the market understanding the movement. When when our price

794
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 3: is peaking, When are you know what's the inventory, what

795
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 3: positions are worth more? They're just guessing. And that's why

796
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 3: schools that have gms, there are certain schools that have

797
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 3: higher gms. I like dealing with them more because I

798
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 3: have a fair sparring partner, someone who actually also all

799
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 3: year is figuring out this information instead of just a

800
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 3: coaches guessing. But also like there is a lot of

801
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 3: misinformation where you know AAU coaches or parents are just saying, hey,

802
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,439
Speaker 3: you should hit the portal and get paid, And it's

803
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 3: like guys are entering the portal without knowing what their

804
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 3: actual value is. So I've had guys this year who

805
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 3: are at mid majors who are like, hey, Dan, will

806
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 3: you figure out what my value is before I enter?

807
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 3: And I'll go talk to seven high major coaches, get

808
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 3: a nod of miss evaluations, give it to the kid,

809
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 3: and then they can decide based on real information from

810
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 3: high major coaches. You know, I had a kid this

811
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 3: year who I could assigned, who's at a good mid major.

812
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 3: I got seven evaluations, and every high major coach said,

813
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 3: you're a six through nine rotation player. You can make

814
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 3: you know x amount. And the kid took the information

815
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 3: returned to his mid major to be a star. Now

816
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 3: I could have lied to him and fudge the feedback

817
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 3: so he could have entered, and I could have made

818
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 3: a commission. But the right thing to do is, hey,

819
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 3: all signs point to you being a backround rotation player.

820
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 3: So the kid goes back to school. But I think

821
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 3: there are in other situations that kid might have just seen, Oh,

822
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 3: I have high major interest, I'm going to jump in

823
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 3: the portal and then his career's ruined because he goes

824
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 3: and averages four points a game.

825
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: I've seen you tweet some about it. Okay, So how

826
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: can both sides get more of what they want with

827
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: the contract? And here's I'll give you a couple of

828
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: things I've heard. So I let's start by this. I

829
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: spent this year as a consultant with at Oklahoma Stake

830
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 1: so and just so everyone's where none of the stories

831
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about but I are Oklam State stories,

832
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: so that would be unfair to Mike to seek granted

833
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 1: me such access. But I do know of the stories

834
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: of other schools, not necessarily coming from them, but coming

835
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,959
Speaker 1: from from around the country. Is that how people get

836
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: to their numbers is really shaky, right, Well, you know

837
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: it's X per month, right, That's generally what I've heard

838
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: is most of it's how much per month, which is

839
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: a lot more like when I played in Europe. That's

840
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:28,919
Speaker 1: really more of what it's kind of like, that's that's

841
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: the model, But how they actually get there. They count

842
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: pell right, They count Alston money, they count cost of attendance,

843
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: and some count the overall value of a vehicle. Even

844
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: though you're really only at least in the vehicle. You

845
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: don't get to keep the vehicle right, So there's some

846
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: kind of fuzzy accounting there in terms of how they

847
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: get to the number.

848
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 2: Is that?

849
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: Is that fair that? And how like what are the

850
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 1: percentages that just do the money and what are the

851
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: percentage of the ones that do the factor in all

852
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: that other stuff.

853
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's part of the importance of a

854
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 3: good agent. And I say good agent because there are

855
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 3: some bad agents out there. The importance of a good

856
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 3: agent is to understand that when you're getting a number

857
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 3: from a school, that could mean a wide variety of things.

858
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 3: And it's my job to hammer in on the details

859
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 3: of how much of this is is an ile compensation,

860
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 3: how much of it is guaranteed, how much of it

861
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,479
Speaker 3: is you know, some schools are doing multi year deals

862
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 3: where it's backloaded so that you don't get your money

863
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 3: if you enter the portal the next year, so it's

864
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 3: not really camp for that season, but it's comp for

865
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 3: attention for next year. Right. There are sneaky ways they

866
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 3: can move the money.

867
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: Around, which I love, which, by the way, and I

868
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: know in your space you probably don't write the object

869
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: is to get what you're supposed to get. I like

870
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: because I think that that's what's missing in this era,

871
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 1: is the inability to build culture and cohesiveness or whatever,

872
00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: and the rewards that guys are getting financially. You know,

873
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: it's it's like, I mean, tyr El Terry didn't have

874
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: to experience it because you only stayed one year at Stanford.

875
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: But the ability to go back, the ability to be

876
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: part of a college basketball program, like, that's a powerful thing.

877
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: But from the agent space, right, you don't like the

878
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 1: backload of ones.

879
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 3: Well, there's upside downside to it, Like and I put

880
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 3: out tweets about this other day about Hey, as an agent,

881
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 3: I'm sometimes open to putting academic requirements in that ile deals,

882
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 3: but you know, behavioral requirements, you know, following team rules.

883
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 3: Sometimes there are retention bonuses or graduation bonuses. I'm fine

884
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 3: with that in some cases. But here's the downside of

885
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 3: the you know, post portal period retention bonus. I have

886
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 3: a kid, let's say, who goes okay Obviously in the

887
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 3: in the situation the kid overachieving that the retention bonus

888
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 3: makes sense. It's like, hey, you played great, we want

889
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 3: to keep you, so you have a bonus if you stay. Now,

890
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 3: what about the case where a kid goes to a

891
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 3: school and it's not what he thought it was and

892
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 3: it doesn't play them a lot, and it's either trying

893
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 3: to run them off, but they're Anil comp was backloaded

894
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 3: to May, so they're able to run them off, and

895
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 3: that he doesn't get the compensation that he earned for

896
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 3: that year. So I'm in some situations like that where

897
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 3: kids are right now, kids are interested in entering the portal,

898
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 3: but they have big April May payments, but they didn't

899
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 3: play a lot where they're at, so the schools running

900
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 3: them off. So what do you do in that situation?

901
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 3: And that's why as an agent, you don't want to

902
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 3: backload that compensation because it gives a school a chance

903
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 3: to screw a kid over who they don't want anymore.

904
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: This thing has evolved over the past couple of years, Right,

905
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: what it looks like now? What's your negotiations are now?

906
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: Very different? I'm sure even than last year. Definitely different

907
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: than two years ago. What's the newest what's the twenty

908
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: twenty four what's the newest change to how people are

909
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: doing business?

910
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 3: Well, I'm trying to bring this thing into the future.

911
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 3: You've seen some of my tweets on it. It's like,

912
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 3: my thing is everyone's so busy complaining about the chaos. Well,

913
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 3: let's find opportunity in the chaos. Let's say the NCAA

914
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 3: is not coming down to save us. It's our job

915
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 3: as the stakeholders to figure out how to stabilize this

916
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 3: ecosystem and create forward. So I've proposed to schools this year,

917
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 3: let's do multi year deals with buyouts where hey, if

918
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 3: you're a mid major you're giving a kid a three

919
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 3: year deal for twenty fifty thousand, let's build in one

920
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars buyout, or if he breaks the contract,

921
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,919
Speaker 3: he has to pay back x amount of dollars. Now,

922
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 3: the reason you're breaking the contract is as you're going

923
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 3: to a biger school where you'reetting paid triple. So essentially

924
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 3: new collective buying out the contract, replenishing the mid major

925
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 3: school from getting pillaged for all their good players. I'm

926
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 3: proposing things like this to schools or to collectives, but

927
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 3: I've seen very few collectives willing to be creative enough

928
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 3: to push this thing into the future. They're still operating.

929
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,240
Speaker 1: What about a noncompete class like in conference noncompete clause.

930
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 3: It's tough because you can't do it's not pay for place,

931
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 3: so it can't be tied to schools in conference, so

932
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 3: it would be the anile collective. Right, it's a marketing company.

933
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 3: You can do a buyout because you can say, well,

934
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 3: if you signed with another marketing company, then you're breaking

935
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 3: this contract and that a new marketing company has to

936
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 3: pay you back. Well, could you say non competing in conference,

937
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 3: because you couldn't really say.

938
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: I think I think the buyout. I think the buyout

939
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: is probably the way to go, the way to protect

940
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: from from this. You know what's interesting about you said

941
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: the opportunity and I agree, completely agree, and you know

942
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: I don't like to pay for play, and and you

943
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: said you didn't know where it's going, Like this was

944
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 1: always why I was people like you're against guys getting likes, no,

945
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: because you can't control it, because it no longer ceased

946
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: to become about nil, right, But I do know, Like

947
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: I talked to a coach who older, gentleman, and he's

948
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: established and he's got a really good team coming back,

949
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: and he's like I kind of like it. He's like

950
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: I have like three maybe four starters. I have some

951
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: money now and I can go around and pick which

952
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: guy I want to add. He's like, if I had

953
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 1: to create a whole new team yearly, I would hate

954
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be for me. But what I have like,

955
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: I actually like it. Like all these guys are complain

956
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 1: about it, I'm just laying out of it. So you know,

957
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: it's a very It's interesting that people are sure of

958
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: coming around to it. I think what they don't like

959
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 1: is they don't like the players marching in and saying

960
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: some value. They don't like guys that they think can't play,

961
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: you know, holding them over to the coles and knowing

962
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 1: that hey, dude, like you're like two three years away

963
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: and nobody likes the in conference like I coach you,

964
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: and then you go and shake hands and go play

965
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: for their rival. Whitches happen? I mean, Kobe Johnson went

966
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: from USC to UCLA, Like, wow, it's a lot. I

967
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: think those are the things that the guys generally don't like,

968
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: and it's when they don't get to work with people

969
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: like you, actually, the ones I talk to. It's like

970
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: when you've got some dude from back home who doesn't

971
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: know anything, telling them, hey, they're going to get five

972
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: hundred grand, and you're like, right, that's a hard thing

973
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: to cut through though, because they have those relationships and

974
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: they're telling they're telling you, hey, look at this guy

975
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: got money. This guy got money, not knowing if it's

976
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: actually accurate anymore.

977
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,879
Speaker 3: Exactly. I think some coaches you know me, well, when

978
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 3: I get on the phone, they're like, oh cool, I'm

979
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 3: talking to Dan. Now there's a pathway to a deal.

980
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 3: Now we can actually talk rationally. There's gonna be real information.

981
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 3: My job. I'm getting on the phone with you because

982
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 3: I want to make a deal and I want to

983
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 3: find a pathway to that. I'm not here to, you know,

984
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 3: create chaos and hold you hostage. I have too many

985
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 3: clients to make a circus. I'm on the phone to

986
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,479
Speaker 3: make a pathway to a deal. Whereas if you're talking

987
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 3: to a kid's parent or an AAU coach or someone

988
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 3: from back home, it might it might be chaos not

989
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 3: rooted in reality. So I think again, the coaches that

990
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 3: have are collectives that have good resources. Like when they

991
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 3: get on the phone with me, because they're like, oh cool,

992
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 3: we can create a deal. But now schools that have

993
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 3: no resources, it's tough for them. If you're at a

994
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 3: high major with a four hundred thousand dollars collective and

995
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 3: you're trying to compete with three million dollar collectives in

996
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 3: your conference, and I get on the phone, you're like, Okay, well,

997
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 3: I thought I was able to fleece this kid and

998
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 3: get him for like one of those deals you talked

999
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 3: about where I say it's this amount, but really it's

1000
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 3: Peal Austin cost of attendance in a car, right, And

1001
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 3: once I get on the phone and we're talking real

1002
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 3: you know, real contract details that you don't have the resources,

1003
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 3: you're screwed. So I think some people that hate this

1004
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 3: system are the ones whose schools aren't don't have strong collectives.

1005
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: Like you said, if you have a good collective, you

1006
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 3: can pay to retain your guys, you can pay to

1007
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 3: pick new guys, you can recruit intentionally. It's a wonderful system,

1008
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 3: but it's just like anything in a capitalist society, Like

1009
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 3: if you're the haves, it's it's great, and if you're

1010
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 3: the have nots, it's really fucking tough.

1011
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: Okay, So last thing, and I want to do do

1012
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: more in this but both both of us have time constraints.

1013
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: What's the reality to what people's budgets are in the

1014
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 1: big conferences? Because you hear all different sorts of stuff,

1015
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: What is what is real in terms budgets?

1016
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 3: There are a good handful of schools that are in

1017
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 3: the three million range, and a lot of schools, you know,

1018
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 3: I'm not going to name which schools, but there's a

1019
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 3: lot of There's very few higher than that. Right. We

1020
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 3: hear the rumors of you know, Arkansas being five million. Right,

1021
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,760
Speaker 3: we'll see if that's true. There's a few schools, maybe seven,

1022
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 3: that are like up in that echelog. You know, it's funny.

1023
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,720
Speaker 3: I saw a report yestually that Kansas had four million dollars.

1024
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 3: This is the highest file collective. I know two that

1025
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 3: spent more than that last year. Okay, so there are

1026
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,959
Speaker 3: some outliers, and that veries year to year because there's

1027
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 3: donor fatigue, there's new donors, there's new coaches getting jobs

1028
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 3: and demanding big collectives. Right, But there's a lot in

1029
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 3: that three million range. I think that's the like I

1030
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 3: want to be competitive with everyone in my conference number.

1031
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 3: And then there's high majors that are down to five

1032
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 3: hundred k and everything in between. And there are some

1033
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 3: schools that won this year with sub million dollar budgets

1034
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 3: and there are some schools that had three million plus

1035
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 3: budgets that didn't make the tournament. Money doesn't always equate

1036
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 3: to wins. Sometimes that you have the biggest budget, you're

1037
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 3: just getting the kids who are going for the biggest

1038
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,240
Speaker 3: bag and they're not valuing winning. So if you're buying

1039
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 3: a team and you're not factoring in does this kid

1040
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 3: really want to be here or is he just taking

1041
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 3: the bag, you might spend four million bucks and end

1042
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 3: up in that it. Or there are teams that are,

1043
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 3: you know, we're really creative and ended up in the

1044
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:02,359
Speaker 3: tournaments at large teams with very small budgets. But but yeah,

1045
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 3: I mean that's where it's going, and I think the

1046
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 3: numbers are just going to keep getting higher. They're going

1047
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 3: to find creative ways to funnel conference conferences, to funnel

1048
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 3: TV revenue into collectives. They're going to find ways to

1049
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 3: turn by games from mid majors into anile money. They're

1050
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 3: going to keep getting more and more creative. I don't

1051
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 3: people talk about donor fatigue. Sure, but go to any

1052
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 3: college campus and there's a twenty million dollar building named

1053
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 3: after a donor who wasn't fatigued, who wanted their name.

1054
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I get it, but the but the building

1055
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: stays there, the kids don't and and banners stay there.

1056
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: Right but if it but but again that there's only

1057
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: one league champion, only one national champion, only four teams.

1058
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 1: It's like, I I know, I know one acc school

1059
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: that is well funded by one guy. One guy doesn't

1060
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: because no one else's like, dude, this doesn't make sense.

1061
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: And as you know, a lot of the schools, the

1062
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: you know, the high academic schools, their donors are like

1063
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,399
Speaker 1: this doesn't I'm not doing this right, and then their

1064
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: teams can't compete and they're you know, it's really hard

1065
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: for those really hard for those those coaches. But the

1066
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: donor fatigue thing is a real thing because some schools,

1067
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: you're trying to be good at everything, you know, and

1068
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: they're constantly the basketball coach calls and the football coach calls,

1069
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 1: and the baseball coach calls, and the gymnastics and there's

1070
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: just like dude, and then if you have a bad

1071
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: experience with one kid sometimes can cause that donor fatigue.

1072
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 3: But for every school, there's donor fatigue. There's a Calipari

1073
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 3: to Arkansas situation where a new coach is saying, if

1074
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 3: I'm taking this job, I need a multi year commitment

1075
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 3: for X amount of millions of dollars. So for every

1076
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 3: school that there's donor fatigue, there's a new one popping

1077
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 3: up with donors that are not fatigued.

1078
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,959
Speaker 1: Okay, last question, and we'll circle back to these. Last question.

1079
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: If I were to ask you, as a guy who's

1080
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: real and on the ground and knows this, what's the

1081
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: what's the most important thing that can a rule that

1082
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: can be passed or away. Yeah, a rule that can

1083
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 1: be passed. And like the problem with the rules are

1084
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: they get passed and then somebody goes to court and

1085
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: strikes it. But a legit rule that can pass that

1086
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: you believe will help everybody.

1087
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 3: We need set free agency windows. We all need to

1088
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 3: agree that, whether it's you know, March fifteenth through June first,

1089
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 3: these are the free agency windows, and we can negotiate deals.

1090
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 3: And if you want to extend a player you currently

1091
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 3: have under contract during the season, that's fine. But we

1092
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 3: can't have guys holding schools hostage mid season. We can't

1093
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:31,800
Speaker 3: have schools breaking contracts midseason. We can't have coaches getting

1094
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 3: fired mid season and the donors don't want to pay

1095
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 3: the contracts they've already signed. We need some rules around contracts.

1096
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 3: What's enforceable.

1097
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: You want them to be employees.

1098
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 3: I want them to be employees, and I want to

1099
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,240
Speaker 3: have a union. I think it's going to happen eventually.

1100
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:47,439
Speaker 1: What happens to the academic piece?

1101
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 3: I mean, that's another hour long conversation, right academic Here's

1102
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 3: an academic piece can never be separated. The reason they're

1103
00:52:56,719 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 3: such rapid fandom in college sports is because I went

1104
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 3: to this school, correct school, be to your school. I'm

1105
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 3: better than you. That's easier in college basketball than pros.

1106
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 3: We can't pull that piece apart. But also, this whole

1107
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 3: like nil when it's really paid for play, is not sustainable.

1108
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,399
Speaker 3: We have to call it what it is and build

1109
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 3: rules around it for what it actually is.

1110
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: Okay, so we're going to pause there. We're to get

1111
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 1: to the academic piece, and let's figure out a time

1112
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: next week because all this stuff changes. We take and

1113
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: it's crazy. But I cannot tell you how much I

1114
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: know this is a really busy time of year for you.

1115
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: I really value your time. We've been trying to get

1116
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: this thing done, but this is actually the perfect timing

1117
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, and thank you so much for joining me,

1118
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.

1119
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 3: This is so much fun, so much fun. I bet

1120
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 3: I'm going to have forty unread text and twelve missed

1121
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 3: calls when I pick up my phone from this hour, baby,

1122
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 3: But I've enjoyed this, and thank you for having me.

1123
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: All Right, So that's part one, Part two. We'll record

1124
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: that next week. I got some other stuff coming orry

1125
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: as well. Make sure you retweet this, make sure you

1126
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 1: tell a friend about I aim for interesting, interesting people,

1127
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: interesting stories, interesting angles. I think you got all of

1128
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: that today, isn't sure?

1129
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 2: I'm not godlieve this is all ball