WEBVTT - Mountain Girl (“MG”) Garcia on Life with the Merry Pranksters, Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:07.720 Hi, I'm Ethan Edelman, and this is Psychoactive, a production 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:11.600 of I Heart Radio and Protozoa Pictures. Psychoactive is the 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:15.040 show where we talk about all things drugs. But any 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.760 views expressed here do not represent those of my Heart Media, 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:23.480 Protozoa Pictures, or their executives and employees. Indeed, Heed, as 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.400 an inveterate contrarian, I can tell you they may not 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:30.720 even represent my own and nothing contained in this show 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.680 should be used his medical advice or encouragement to use 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:46.199 any type of drugs. Hello, Psychoactive listeners. Today's guest is 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:51.200 somebody who's both a remarkable historical figure but also very 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:55.800 much active and in the present. Her birth name was 0:00:56.080 --> 0:01:00.440 Carolyn Adams, but she's much better known for the last 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.880 fifty years or so as Mountain Girl or MG Mountain 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.840 Girl Garcia, you know, the woman who was part of 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:11.520 the Married Pranksters, was a partner and co parent with 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.480 Ken Kiss of the Mary Pranksters and Jerry Garcia the 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.120 Grateful Dead, and has continued to play a role in 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:20.399 this world really over the last fifty years or so. So, MG, 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.160 thanks so much for joining me on Psychoactive. Oh well, 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.880 you're welcome. It's it's nice to be here on this 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.440 foggy day in Oregon. You grew up, right, It was 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:33.800 at Poughkeepsie, New York, and then moved out west and 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.080 you're about eighteen or so, that's correct. Yeah, I was 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.160 an upstate New York kid, went to school there and 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:44.520 you know, eventually got kicked out how that goes. And 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.200 then I went to California with my brother. Were you 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.920 doing drugs in high school before even went to California 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:52.240 or was it when you talked to California AJ teen 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.280 that you started, uh doing all that stuff? Now? I 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:57.680 was just I was just a prankster in high school. 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:00.560 I mean, what's a prankster? Always a prankster? So I 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.320 was pulling pranks and they got onto me and and 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:06.120 got mad at me. But but no, I didn't discover 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:10.400 the choice of ingestible substances until I was a little 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:14.080 bit older and had been working. And the job that 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.320 I got out in California was a very unusual job. 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:23.320 Based on my ability to read and write about science. 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:28.160 I was hired by Stanford University to come and work 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:34.000 in the mass spectrometer lab at Stanford University's Organic Chemistry building, 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.799 which was a very unusual job for an eighteen year 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:43.000 old kid. Yeah, no kidding, right, eighteen years old working 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.240 in the lab at Stanford without any kind of college 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:49.200 education or yeah. Just I was so smart though, because 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.320 I had read all this. I had read everything. You know. 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.359 My parents were scientists, so I was good on science. 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.680 So when they interviewed me, I I apparently aced the 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.679 interview and it aid really well, you know, it was 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:03.799 one of those jobs, you know, for an eighteen year 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.880 old getting a job like that was really great. But 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.240 I was on the night shift, which was kind of 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:13.359 weird because I had to ride my bicycle around through 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.880 Powell also after dark a lot. And and you were 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:21.120 talking nineteen sixty four, huh is that right? Yeah, sixty four, 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.760 It seems like so long ago. Now, Oh my gosh, 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.040 it is a big change. I mean, to come from 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.359 from an East coast in a prep school like I did, 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:35.360 and to just jump into a community on the other 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.640 side of the country was pretty interesting. But I really 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:41.560 liked it. I thought I thought it was beautiful. I 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.720 thought California was just heaven. So you're in the lab 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.560 at Stanford, hanging out there at night, and I imagine 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.480 you get your hands on some of the psychedelic drugs 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:54.440 that are lying around Stanford in those days. Is that right? Yeah, 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.960 that's true. And no. I was actually asked to process 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.640 a sample that was labeled very cautious with this sample, 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.680 and I ran into trouble with it. I had trouble 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.680 with the mass spectrometer that night and wound up with 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.960 a half used sample. And I'm sitting there with this 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:15.440 sample and me and it's you know, eleven o'clock at night, 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:18.200 and I'm going to m hmmm, Okay, you know there's 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.960 still more in the in the little jar. I'll just 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.560 eat this one and see what happens. You know, because 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:28.360 I've been reading, I've been reading about psychedelics and gotten 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.880 really interested because, of course, even as a young person, 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:35.640 I was a scientist. I was raised by scientists, and 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:40.520 my science mind just looked at the stories about psychedelics 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:44.800 and said, I want to know what this is. So 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:46.960 I realized there was only one way to know, and 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.400 that was to partake. But in your case, if I 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:51.920 read this quickly, it was an LSD. Was it began, 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:56.000 Actually it was. It was the only people I know 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.240 who was introduced to all of this you know through 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.520 I gain LSD your mushrooms or something like that. That 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:06.359 must have been a challenging experience. Well, it was very challenging. 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.240 Getting home was really hard on the bicycle, you know, 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.520 at like four in the morning, I had to ride 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.600 my bike backed across town and that was like a 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:22.400 mystery tourycle trip. It does. Yeah, I had to like 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.720 re remember everything all the time, re remember, re remember, 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.320 re remember this corner that corner, like. But I made 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.920 it back and by the time I got there, I 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:35.440 was pretty messed up. So I had to like lie 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.000 down and go to sleep or try to go to 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.640 sleep for a long time. And I don't remember it 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:45.040 being any fun. I remember it being an ordeal because 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:50.320 it was an unrefined sample of a e boga from 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.000 West Africa, so it was just a little blob of 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:56.520 green good and I mean a small blob. It was, 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:01.839 you know, pretty small little blob and uh yeah, and 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.600 it just it really messed me up, frankly, and I 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:07.960 take it the job at Stanford did not last much 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.279 longer there, you know, the problem being that it it 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.160 messed with my mind in a very overt way. I 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.440 can't recommend it. I really can't and uh, this is 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.560 not this was not a good idea on my part, 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:25.359 although heck, what can I say now? Yeah it's a 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.719 bad idea. How much there after was it that you're 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:31.680 like hanging out in some cafe or something in Palo 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.719 Alto and get picked up by Neil Cassidy. That was 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:39.040 like about a month later. And for our listeners, just 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.360 you know who don't know Neil Cassidy is he was 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.120 a key figure in the in the Beach generation. You know, 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.680 somebody hooked up with Jack Carroll act and in fact 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.000 the basis of the character Demoyarty in On the Road, 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.520 which was basically the key character and on the Road 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.960 but also friendly with William Burrows and and Alan Ginsburg 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.440 and all those And now he meets you in this 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.880 cafe and Palo alter you're all of what eighteen years old? Yeah? 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.200 What happens? Then? Well, it's late at night and I'm 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.680 my boyfriend who I had been staying with his his 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.320 mom had come and gotten him that day and taken 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.760 all of his stuff out of the house, and suddenly 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.440 he was gone and like completely gone, and I didn't 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.560 have a place to be, so I thought I'd just 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.440 pedal on over to St. Michael's and get a cup 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.080 of coffee and think things over. And I'm sitting there 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.400 with my big cup of coffee and in walks Neil 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:37.400 Cassidy and his sidekick Bradley, and they sit down at 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.400 the table right next to me, and there, look, there's 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:44.600 nobody else in the place. Meanwhile, the guy serving the coffee, 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:50.560 who is kind of a famously annoying fellow, turns out 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.800 to be Bob Hunter. In later years I found out 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.120 that that was actually Bob Hunter who wrote the songs 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:02.280 for the Grateful Tet. Oh, he's the key were and 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.080 he was the guy behind the counter at St. Michael's 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.840 alley that night. So, um, that's a tidbit I didn't 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:10.920 pick up from all the reading I was doing. Yeah, 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.760 it's so amazing to me that this happened. So anyway, 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.320 so these two guys say, hey, you know, we're trying 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.640 to score some Benny's. You want to want to go 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:21.720 out with us and try to score some Benny's? And 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:26.720 I'm going Benny's. Okay, yeah, right, okay, Ben Citrine and 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.160 these guys look good. I said okay. Because I had 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.680 nothing else to do, I said, okay, let's go. And 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:37.360 we drove around all night, visiting all of Neil Cassidy's 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.640 friends houses around Palo Alto and up up in the mountain, 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:46.360 the San Bruno Mountains, and failed to score even a 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:50.240 single Betty, to his great dismay, because he had just 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.840 come back from the famous bus trip, which I knew 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:57.440 nothing about. I knew nothing about these people. And he 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.480 winds up. We go all the way down the hill 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.920 on the far side of San Bruno Mountain towards the coast, 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:06.240 and he pulls in. He had to take the car back. 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.600 He was driving ken Casey's car. So I wound up 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:14.920 in ken Casey's parking lot wait at four in the morning, 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:18.000 and that was okay. So now we got to back 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:20.200 up for audience for a second, because some people know 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:23.280 exactly who he is. But let's fill in this history, right. 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:27.679 So Ken Kesey was the person who first became famous 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.679 for writing One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, and it 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.280 immediately catapults him into the you know, the echelons of 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.880 the great up and coming American writers, and then becomes 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:39.920 the movie with Jack Nicholson and all this sort of thing. 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.600 And so Ken KSI. Some years before you had your 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.280 I began experience is doing you know, LSD as part 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:50.160 of the MK ultra Cia experiments to investigate the potential 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.959 uses of LSD for military and intelligence purposes, and gets 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:58.920 into LSD in the early sixties, starts using it, then 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.719 begins to create a group called the Mary Pranksters, and 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:05.960 then has this trip across the country to New York 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.800 in nineteen sixty four to go see the World's Fair 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:12.240 and do other things like that that ultimately becomes famous 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:17.120 when Tom Wolfe, the novelist and non nonfiction writer as well, writes, uh, 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:20.480 the Electric kool Aid asset test. So this is you know, 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.920 Ken KISSI has taken this bus trip in sixty four. 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.360 He's got this growing gang of people with him. LST 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.360 is very much part of their world. Now we're in 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:38.360 nineteen sixty five and you show up at his door, right, Okay, 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:42.720 so take it away. Just to clarify, Yeah, the reason 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.520 Neil was out looking for Benny's was because they had 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:50.040 just come back from the famous bus trip. In other words, 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.240 they had only been back in the Bay Area for 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.880 a few hours when I met Neil, and he had 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.280 borrowed Kent's car to go look for look for some 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.000 benditry and it couldn't find it. Had to bring the 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:06.080 car back because it was time for Ken's kids to 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.960 go to the first day of school that they were having. 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:14.720 So I'm standing around in the parking lot and nobody's 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.680 up yet. It's really quiet. Neil is wandering around somewhere 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.920 and Ken comes out and I meet him and we 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.400 make a nice contact, you know, and uh, suddenly the 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.200 car's gone, and I realized, oh, I'm here, you know, 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:33.520 I'm stuck here. So Neil wanted to get back to 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.000 go to work, so he hitchhiked away. And I got 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:40.199 to meet Ken and Faye that very morning. So this 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:47.800 was Mrs Kesey and and and their kids and their dogs, 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.360 and they had docsins who came out and bit me 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.080 on the ankle. But it was, you know, it was 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.200 so sweet. There was so sweet to me. But what 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.680 I really got to see was the bus itself, which 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.160 was standing sitting there in the yard. Is huge old 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.080 school bus, you know, with the low ceiling that you 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:07.520 have to duck and you have to like walk along 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.760 with your head down because you're too tall for the bus. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.439 And it's just completely painted and decorated all over with 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.360 stuff glued to it. And I mean, honest to God, 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:19.080 I wrote the bus when I was a kid to 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:22.200 school every day and back and I was a bus monitor, 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.120 and to look at this bus was like such such 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:30.559 a radical twist on the concept of transportation. I was 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:32.760 completely knocked out by it. So I had to like 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.920 look at it for a long current on the top 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.400 or something. So yeah, on the top of you blast 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.440 out music or even or even magnify the sounds that 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.520 were from outside the bus and all this sort of. 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:47.800 It had speakers up top, and then there was a 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.800 they had built an area to what you'd think they'd 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.000 put luggage up there in a big luggage truck, but 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.600 actually there was mattress, two mattresses up there, and you 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.960 could lie down as the bus was going down the road, 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.760 which was really pleasant. And they cut a hole in 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:03.959 the roof for a turret so they could close it 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.240 up if it was raining, but you could climb in 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.360 and out on a ladder and get up on the roof. 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.679 So I'm looking at this thing, right, it's just getting light, 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.120 and I could see it, and I'm looking at it 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.560 and I'm walking around it going Holy moly, because it 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.360 was just covered with globs of paint and pictures and 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.240 you know, it was like a total art project. And 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.160 I come around to the front door, and the front 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.840 door is kind of hanging off the side of the bus, 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.600 you know, the little door you walk through to climb 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.120 up into the bus to go to school. And it 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.000 says on the top of the door says, nothing lasts. 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:38.880 And I just burst out laughing. I thought that was 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:43.640 the funniest thing I ever see. Oh yeah, nothing less. 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.600 And that was like their motto, you know, for the 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:51.880 for the Hall Prankster Enterprise, nothing less and the bush 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:57.640 further further f you r t h you are, which 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:01.160 is a little different from for with an e er 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:06.360 further is more of a sense of putting things in motion, 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.320 but you know, giving giving reality a shove of some sort. 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.520 You know. So you then what do you actually start 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:16.079 living up there? Then? Fairly soon at this in La Honda, 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:19.240 I think outside of Palo Alto. Yeah, so there was 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.000 a beach, you know, like ten minutes away, and it 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:26.200 was a beautiful redwood trees, like it's just huge redwood 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.360 trees out in the yard. I was fascinated, and these 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.880 were such nice people, you know, they were all just 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.400 as nice as they could be. And when I finally 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.920 met all the rest of the pranksters, I realized that 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.800 not only was I safe with these people because they 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.680 weren't going to attack me or whatever, you know, that 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.440 I was really a lot like them, you know, I 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.640 looked at things from a different point of view, and 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:52.440 so did they, and we we bonded, you know, within 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.920 a couple of weeks, there was a pretty strong bond 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.360 getting set up. So here I'm just going to quote 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:02.160 two passages MG from Tom Wolves Electric Kool Aid Acid Test, 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.600 and the one and the one is page fourteen where 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.960 he first introduces you as a character, and he says, 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.400 Mounted Girl is a tall girl, big and beautiful, with 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.680 dark brown hair falling down to her shoulders, except that 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.600 the lower two thirds of her falling hair looked like 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.000 a paintbrush dipped in cadmium yellow from where she dyed 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:28.600 at blonde in Mexico. And then pages later, Mounted Girl 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.520 was a big hit with the pranksters from the very start. 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.640 She seemed always completely out front without the slightest prompting. 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:39.480 She was one big, loud charge of vitality. Here comes 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.480 mounted girl, And it was the thing that made you 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.080 pick up as soon as you saw her mouth broadened 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.080 into a grin and her big brown eyes open, open, open, 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.960 until they practically exploded like sunspots in front of your eyes. 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.400 And you knew that wonderful country vide voice was gonna 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:57.040 sing out something that was a nice description by Tom Wolf. 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.400 Yeah he liked me, he did. Yeah. Did you think 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:02.920 of him? Oh? He was okay, I mean he he 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.880 interviewed me extensively and then wrote his own version of 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.840 what I said. Right, But I thought he was somebody 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:14.080 who lived in a in a greenhouse on the top 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.240 roof of a New York skyscraper. You know. He seemed 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.920 somehow not to know very much about anything. He had 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.280 grown up in a vacuum of some sort. You know 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.680 that he just he was an open invitation to tell 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.080 him stuff, you know, But he didn't ever give you 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.960 anything back, you know what I mean. It was all input. 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.080 He had very little output except just kind of as 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.840 a nice guy. And I and the Mary Pranksters had 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:41.840 become quite well known, like in the Bay are in 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.760 the West Coast, but would probably never achieved the fame 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.480 they had nationally, but for Tom Wolves writing about it 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.320 an electrical aid asset test. I mean, to the extent 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.760 that fame served the interests of the pranksters, Wolf was 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:54.640 great for them, and to the extent of the pranksters 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.680 provided material for Wolf to become, you know, sort of 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:02.040 nationally highly regarded all writer. It worked out in that regard, 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.919 and you know, in observing his writing, you know, and 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.320 reading it years later, I'm going like, Wow, this guy 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.760 was a really gifted writer, and he honestly didn't know 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.240 what he was writing about. Really, you know, he refused 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:17.440 to get high. He didn't want to sully his magical brain, 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:21.119 which I have great respect for him because he managed 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:22.920 to get the job done and he did a great 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.359 job with it. It's still a really fun read. So 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:28.919 let me see, there's another quote that I found. You 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.399 said somewhere. You said about the Pranksters. They didn't know 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.520 they were starting the sixties, obviously, but they knew they 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:37.880 had a big secret and they were going to exploit 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.280 it to the full, that's right. And what was the secret? 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.760 The secret was LSD that Ken had copped from the 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.240 mental health place where he was working at Stanford at 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.280 some point earlier in the year. But then then it 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:55.280 kind of came on the underground market in the early sixties, 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.560 it began to leak out and he managed to find some. 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.439 So we had we had LSD that came from Sandos, 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.440 from the Swiss chemists, and that was what Ken had 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.919 picked up in Palo Alto, which is a very clean 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:15.040 and beautiful high actually, and people should know, until late 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:19.520 nineteen six is LSD actually become illegally get scarce because 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:22.040 Sandos the pharmaceutic companies in handing it out the way 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.840 they did in late fifties early sixties. But you know, 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.080 people could not get busted for it at that point, 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.640 right it was unknown. It was an unknown drug, and 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.480 if you could keep your behavior under control when you 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:35.399 were high, you can get away with it, of course, 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.560 but it does it does have a tendency to change 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:42.800 people's behavior. And you know, you'd say so. Plus we 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.960 were clueless about dosage at that time, you know, we 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.800 were we were experimenting. So basically, some LSD would go 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.760 into a big picture of kool aid and you drink 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.600 some of it. So how much LSD did you have? 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.400 You had some, but I mean for all you know. 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:01.679 I mean, if you think about, you know, a hundred 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:05.480 micrograms being a kind of fair not light does it's 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:09.119 a real If you think about that's just okay, solid dose. 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.640 But if you think about two D fifty or more 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.240 being what you might call a heroic dose, but you're 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.119 drinking it in kool aid, I mean, you have no 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.919 idea if you're getting fifty micrograms or five micrograms. I 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.280 guess the flight of faith faith is a strong, a 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:28.000 strong contender forgetting it in and out of trouble. But 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:30.840 you know, uh, I feel like I did take too 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:32.639 much one time, but I just went and gotten my 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:34.720 sleeping bag and stayed there, And which is the best 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:36.440 thing you can do if you've had a had a 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.199 little bit too much. And were the other drugs I mean, 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.720 was mescaline and psilocybin. Mushrooms also a big part of 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.720 your life. Not so much those days, no, because they 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.040 were rare. These were things. By the way, are you 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.800 still are you still doing it this year? I haven't 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.840 taken any this year, but I usually take it three 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:58.159 or four times a year. Mh. So listen, let's go 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:00.240 back to the pranksters for a second. Here, now, which 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.280 is that, you know, I'm reading about them, and I'm 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.040 recognizing a lot of the names, and I was just 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.479 real off a few. And then there was Stewart Brand 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:09.840 who then comes up with a Whole Earth catalog, which 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.040 is a major phenomenous seventies. There's Jim Fattiman, who has 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.760 now become sort of the godfather of micro dosing. Robert 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.399 Stone who shows up, who's the novelist who wrote Dog Soldiers, 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.040 a kind of award winning book about drug dealing during 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.280 the Vietnam War days that became the movie Whole Stop 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:29.840 the Rain. Larry McMurtry, who also famous novelists, right sixty novels, 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:32.320 including Lonesome Dove, one of the most famous, you know, 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:37.000 sort of novelized series on TV. Paul Krasner, founder of 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.680 the Yippies, and of course Neil Cassidy. So you're hanging 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.840 out with this remarkable cast of character. So so I mean, 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:46.680 just tell us about, you know, who is your favorites 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.840 among this group. I think my favorite among that group 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:54.320 was Alan Ginsburg. So Ginsburg was a special friend of 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:58.040 Neil Cassidy's, and he came out and stayed for like 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:00.920 a week and a half at Ken's and I just 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:06.000 thought he was absolutely charming, interesting guy. So for our audience, 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.359 so that you don't know, Alan Ginsburg is one of 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.720 the most famous American poets of the of the second 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:15.000 half of the twentieth century, and he's a e pivotal 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:17.760 to the Beats generation. Of course I'd heard about him 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:21.200 before he got there. But but what a lovely guy 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:25.720 Ginsburg was. He was just he was the sweetest fellow, 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:31.280 just delightful and kind and Jewish, which is important, you know. 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:35.560 That categorizes him to me as as somebody with a 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.720 with a good intellect and a grasp on who he 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.159 is and what he's doing. And I thought he was 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.400 the only Jewish guy in the in the Beats generation, 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:46.840 among the prominent ones. I say, is that right, Well, 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:52.760 he think so, because Carol A. Cassidy a bunch of Catholics, 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.440 you know, So it's yeah. So Ginsburg was a revelation 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:59.199 to me because he was he was somebody gifted with 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:02.439 a lot of pace and calm. He had calmness and 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:05.960 patience that just flowed out of him. I had never 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:09.439 read his poetry before, being clueless, and I read this 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:12.359 stuff and I'm going, Wow, this is kind of interesting, 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:17.879 but I don't really understand it. I had cognition problems 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:19.920 with some of the stuff these guys were doing because 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.840 I had not I had not lived their lives, you know, 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.480 I had not lived in their shadow either, so I 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:28.160 didn't know anything about them. But I found them all 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.879 really interesting and fun to get along with. And Neil 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.520 was Neil Cassidy was the connector here. He was the 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:38.560 spark that brought all these people together and brought them 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:43.159