WEBVTT - Thursday Therapy: The Topic of Heliotropic

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<v Speaker 1>Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, this Thursday Therapy. We have a doctor Harry

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<v Speaker 1>Cohen coming on and I'm really excited. He's got a

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<v Speaker 1>book called Be the Sun Not the Salt. Let's get

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<v Speaker 1>him on. And then there's a word called heliotropic. Not

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<v Speaker 1>really sure what that is, so let's get him on

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<v Speaker 1>and we'll find out what it is. Hi, Janna, Hi,

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<v Speaker 1>how are you good?

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<v Speaker 2>I think the last time we were supposed to talk,

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<v Speaker 2>you had.

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<v Speaker 1>Something rather I had a baby. I think right, you

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<v Speaker 1>had a baby. Yeah. It was either that or I

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<v Speaker 1>know I had to cancel a few because I was

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<v Speaker 1>having some postpartum Like how are you now? Oh my, now,

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<v Speaker 1>you're so sweet for asking. I am. Yeah, I'm good,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel I feel good. The emotions have obviously been

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<v Speaker 1>all over the place. Do you have kids?

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<v Speaker 2>I have two thirty two year old twin boys.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So was postpartum a thing back then?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>With your wife like it? Did they talk about it

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<v Speaker 1>at all? Or was it?

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<v Speaker 2>It was it was a show because it was a

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<v Speaker 2>section and we were new to parenting and twins and

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<v Speaker 2>it was it was very, very different. Most of it

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<v Speaker 2>was just a fog of trying to deal with two

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<v Speaker 2>little boys, two little babies.

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<v Speaker 1>But you did it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm sure they're they're good. You know. It's it's a.

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<v Speaker 1>Journey, Yeah, it is.

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<v Speaker 2>So how old is what's your story?

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<v Speaker 1>So? I have an eight year old almost eight year

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<v Speaker 1>old daughter, and then I have a five year old

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<v Speaker 1>son and now a let's see when this airs. So

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<v Speaker 1>today as we're recording, we're five days before Christmas and

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<v Speaker 1>he is five weeks so, you know, it's it's one

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<v Speaker 1>of those things where I was just out of it

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<v Speaker 1>with my five year old, and so it's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>restarting back up again and again. The hormones started really sensitive.

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<v Speaker 1>I wasper sensitive, and then all of a sudden, I

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<v Speaker 1>think last week I started to just get really agitated,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, I don't even know why I'm agitated.

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<v Speaker 1>I just am agitated at everything that moves. So I

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<v Speaker 1>like went to my therapist and I'm like, I'm so,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, I'm normally high strung, but I'm on like

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<v Speaker 1>I've taken high strung pills and I don't know how

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<v Speaker 1>to like calm my nervous system down, you know. And

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<v Speaker 1>it was one of those where I'm like, I just

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<v Speaker 1>feel like I'm going to explode, and anyone I go to,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like a wrecking ball of just like aggression, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, I don't like, I'm like, I don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to be this way good good. So we're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>figure it out, but have you it's I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>again just trying to figure out where why, Like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I know it's the the emotions and the hormones regulating.

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<v Speaker 1>I also think I again, I love, I'm so happy,

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<v Speaker 1>and I love obviously my baby and all the things.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think a piece of that aggression felt like

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<v Speaker 1>I was trapped again, like oh my gosh, everything is

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<v Speaker 1>around yet again, I'm you know, the schedule and feedings

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<v Speaker 1>and naps, and I don't have help yet, so I

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<v Speaker 1>just felt very I think trapped is the best word

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<v Speaker 1>I can think of when I was trying to explain

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<v Speaker 1>it to her. And I don't ever like the feeling

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<v Speaker 1>of feeling trapped. I get anxious, I lash out. So

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<v Speaker 1>that's where I'm just trying to. Now go, Okay, let

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<v Speaker 1>me find things that are good for me that I

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<v Speaker 1>can go do so I don't feel trapped.

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<v Speaker 2>Did your therapist help you.

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<v Speaker 1>She's the best. I love her, but I'm always open

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<v Speaker 1>to which is why i have this segment because I'm

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<v Speaker 1>always open to learning.

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<v Speaker 2>More So, I have no idea what our agenda is.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm happy to do therapy with you if you like,

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<v Speaker 2>but I.

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<v Speaker 1>Mean, hey, we can have a little dose of this

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<v Speaker 1>and a little dose of that, because I want to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about your book too, and I need to know

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<v Speaker 1>if you're a Michigan fan since you went to Michigan. Duh, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you okay, because I'm like, I know some people

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<v Speaker 1>that go to you know, U of m are like, no, no, no, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Live in I mean, I have two front row seats

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<v Speaker 2>and two second row seats.

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<v Speaker 1>If you ever want to do even don't even say

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<v Speaker 1>that without because I'm like, I will take you up

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<v Speaker 1>on that offer. That's one offer I would take.

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<v Speaker 2>Clear, I don't say anything that I don't mean. And

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<v Speaker 2>when I say I have two front row and two

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<v Speaker 2>second row and I give them away, I don't generally

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<v Speaker 2>don't go to the games. I give them away because

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<v Speaker 2>the experience for people who've never been to the Big House.

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<v Speaker 2>Front row is different and second row is pretty nice.

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<v Speaker 2>And and I'm happy to do that I went to

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<v Speaker 2>restaurant in town, you know, dinners on me plus two

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<v Speaker 2>front row seats, plus an experience at the Big House.

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<v Speaker 2>It's easy for me to do so.

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<v Speaker 1>I've never been to a game ever.

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<v Speaker 2>So so take someone whose mind would be blown and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and we'll organize it and schedule it a web.

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<v Speaker 2>Pick a good weather month because it's different.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know in October. Well, gret I love this podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>This podcast has started out amazing. What a generous offer.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>I really a curiosity is one of the qualities that

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<v Speaker 2>makes someone heliotropic.

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<v Speaker 1>Gradit okay, and that's what I wanted to When I

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<v Speaker 1>was reading your breakdown, I started to find myself googling, like,

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<v Speaker 1>what is heliotopic? I didn't even I've never even heard

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<v Speaker 1>that word before.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the world will when when we've done our work,

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<v Speaker 2>the world will know what it means to be heliotropic.

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<v Speaker 2>They'll know what it means to be the sun and

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<v Speaker 2>not the salt. It's not complicated. It is why a

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<v Speaker 2>plant tilts towards the sun. The sun is a source

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<v Speaker 2>of energy, which is why the plant is drawn to it.

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<v Speaker 2>And it turns out that human beings are drawn to

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<v Speaker 2>heliotropic people, people who provide that source of energy for them,

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<v Speaker 2>which is positive, nurturing, good energy, and it comes in

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<v Speaker 2>the form of virtuous behaviors. This is empirical. So when

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<v Speaker 2>people are kind and generous and compassionate and authentic and

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<v Speaker 2>vulnerable and real and all the qualities that we love

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<v Speaker 2>about humans, we're drawn to them like the plant is

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<v Speaker 2>drawn to the sun. Therefore, we want to surround ourselves

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<v Speaker 2>with people like that. We want to be like that,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's nurturing and good for the world period. Conversely,

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<v Speaker 2>don't be a dick, don't be rude, disrespectful, unkind, lash

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<v Speaker 2>out all the ways that human beings can be nasty

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<v Speaker 2>to one another. Don't do that. It's salt on the roots.

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<v Speaker 2>So in a nutshell, that's this whole mindset, which is,

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<v Speaker 2>wait a minute, what you just did. I'm lashing out.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not my best self, that's not who I want

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<v Speaker 2>to be. Good. That salt on other people's roots makes

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<v Speaker 2>them feel horrible, makes you feel horrible too. I want

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<v Speaker 2>to be the good person that I know that I

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<v Speaker 2>am great. Be that way. Find your way back to

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<v Speaker 2>that way of being. It's not complicated me being generous

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<v Speaker 2>to you is easy. You know, when you give somebody

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<v Speaker 2>a buck, you know, you give tip a server or something,

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<v Speaker 2>you're being generous. It's easy. I can be generous. Anybody

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<v Speaker 2>can be. I'm not looking for a metal. I'm just

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<v Speaker 2>saying that practicing the virtuous behaviors that we love about

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<v Speaker 2>humans makes us feel good in the world. Feel good, right,

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<v Speaker 2>you know?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I completely agree with that. And so the

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<v Speaker 1>book that you wrote is it do you talk a lot?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean obviously that the helio how do you say heliotropic?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, helio?

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<v Speaker 1>True? That is that? Is that a new words? Did

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<v Speaker 1>you come up with that? Word? Is that has always

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<v Speaker 1>been there? I'm like, why why am I just hearing

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<v Speaker 1>it now? Because I've heard all the other phrases and words.

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<v Speaker 1>I know.

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<v Speaker 2>Professor Kim Cameron, he wrote one of the endorsements on

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<v Speaker 2>the back. We've done a podcast with people who are

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<v Speaker 2>heliotropic who want to be better people. He was one

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<v Speaker 2>of our first guests and he coined the expression. And

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<v Speaker 2>he's a Ross Business School, Michigan Business School professor, and

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<v Speaker 2>he researched positive energizers and corporations and what is it

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<v Speaker 2>about these people that make corporations more successful these leaders.

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<v Speaker 2>It's what he coined the expression heliotropic positive energizer. So

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<v Speaker 2>I stole it from him with his blessing and popularizing

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<v Speaker 2>it in the form of be the sun. Be like

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<v Speaker 2>the sun as opposed to the salt. So that's where

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<v Speaker 2>it comes from. But if you look up heliotropic, if

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<v Speaker 2>you know chet gpt it or Wikipedia, it'll describe qualities

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<v Speaker 2>of sunlight uplifting.

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<v Speaker 1>Why do you think most people go to the salt

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<v Speaker 1>of people as opposed.

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<v Speaker 2>To There's a lot of reasons for it. We're wired

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<v Speaker 2>and geared to see the glass half empty. When a

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<v Speaker 2>branch snaps in the forest, we don't think it's a

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<v Speaker 2>good thing. So there's a natural inherent bias to go

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<v Speaker 2>to the negative. The negative stings long, stings and last longer. However,

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<v Speaker 2>cultural phenomenon and pep phenomenon and people can make us

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<v Speaker 2>more negative. Media is terrible, you know, if it leads,

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<v Speaker 2>it leads people like to gossip, people like to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about others' flaws and faults, and that's again human nature.

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<v Speaker 2>So we have to guard against the tendency, the human

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<v Speaker 2>tendency to do things that are of the negative. And

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<v Speaker 2>that's all why, because it's human nature, because it's easier

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<v Speaker 2>because the cultural norms around us. Because people like to bitch,

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<v Speaker 2>people like to complain, people like to talk about other people,

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<v Speaker 2>people like to point out flaws. You can see it

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<v Speaker 2>in other people. You need to notice it when you're

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<v Speaker 2>getting all cranky. Wait a minute, this what's going on here.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a natural tendency like gravity. You know, if you

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<v Speaker 2>put a lot of food in front of somebody, they're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna overeat. You know, we got bad habits and good habits.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to, you know, work on being you know

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<v Speaker 2>better habitual person, good person. Don't make it complicated. The

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<v Speaker 2>whole thing Jenna about this is don't over overthink this,

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<v Speaker 2>Just do the next right thing. After you screw up

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<v Speaker 2>to your credit, you recognized you were being cranky and

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<v Speaker 2>you said this ain't me. I got to go get help.

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<v Speaker 2>What I would say to you is, don't complicate it.

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<v Speaker 2>Do the next right thing for yourself or someone else.

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<v Speaker 2>They're interchangeable. If you need to take a break, take

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<v Speaker 2>a break. If you need to get some help, get

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<v Speaker 2>some help. If you need to you know, wind down,

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<v Speaker 2>wind get it, get it. Yeah, But I mean that

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<v Speaker 2>in the don't make it hard for anyone or anybody else,

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<v Speaker 2>like the tiniest things. And you said I was generous

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<v Speaker 2>and kind. That's very nice. It's not that hard to

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<v Speaker 2>be generous and kind. Here's what I just recently learned,

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<v Speaker 2>which is, you know what the hard part about this?

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<v Speaker 2>There isn't any There's no hard part about this. None

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<v Speaker 2>not hard to be a nice person. It's not hard

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<v Speaker 2>to take a break. It's not hard to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you made a boo boo. Yes it is, No, it isn't.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what I mean? You noticed it in a heartbeat.

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<v Speaker 2>You said, I'm being all all, I'm lashing out. The

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<v Speaker 2>minute you lashed out, you said, wait a minute, that's

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<v Speaker 2>not how I want to be. Something's up. You're right,

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<v Speaker 2>figure it out and knock it off, which you did.

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<v Speaker 2>And I asked you it was your therapist helpful because

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<v Speaker 2>you know I was a therapist, and I know sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>I can be helpful sometimes not. The goal is to

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<v Speaker 2>be helpful, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Other, what other tangible tip could you say? Because I

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<v Speaker 1>think when I heard you say the glass half empty,

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<v Speaker 1>I do go that way most times where I and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm learning and trying to flip that to go no,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna this next year or this year is going

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<v Speaker 1>to be very fulfilling, it's going to be a great year.

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<v Speaker 1>It's going to be a successful year. Instead of going, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't gotten that role yet, or you know, it's

0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.439
<v Speaker 1>where I just I go to that kind of pessimistic

0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:25.920
<v Speaker 1>been in this for a long time, like.

0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.439
<v Speaker 2>Rotation, don't go first of all, don't go into a

0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.480
<v Speaker 2>full year. Do it today, do it the next minute,

0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.440
<v Speaker 2>do the next hour. Do it in this conversation. The

0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.440
<v Speaker 2>minute you hear yourself go into the you know, go

0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.000
<v Speaker 2>to the dark side, say wait a minute, I just

0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.440
<v Speaker 2>I just noticed that. Oh yeah, I don't need to

0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:46.280
<v Speaker 2>do that. And from shift your minds and your mindset

0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:52.200
<v Speaker 2>from get to to got to mm hmm instead of

0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, got to to get to? You say, oh

0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:58.360
<v Speaker 2>I did I meant to say get to God? Got

0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.400
<v Speaker 2>to to get to I made mistake? So what you

0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:03.440
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean? Like, oh I gotta go to work? No, no, no,

0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:05.360
<v Speaker 2>I get to go to work. Oh it didn't happen.

0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, So when you hear yourself go negative, let

0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.800
<v Speaker 2>your negativity be your best friend. When you wanted the

0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.920
<v Speaker 2>practical tip, the minute you go dark the minute you

0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.600
<v Speaker 2>go to your dark about Oh, I remember that guy

0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Harry said that. Let it be a little reminder, like

0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.720
<v Speaker 2>a little dude, dude, you got this, Thank you, You're welcome.

0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.880
<v Speaker 2>So the negativity is your friend because you can shift

0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 2>it in a split second. Oh I just said that.

0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.400
<v Speaker 2>I just said I got to No, wait a minute,

0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, where are your kids right now? Where's the

0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:40.319
<v Speaker 2>little baby who's watching.

0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.720
<v Speaker 1>The baby baby's napping? This is nap hour?

0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:44.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh beautiful.

0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I schedule things, you know, to make sure.

0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:50.040
<v Speaker 2>Okay, where's the five.

0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.400
<v Speaker 1>Five year old is actually with their dad today?

0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:58.200
<v Speaker 2>Beautiful? Yeah, so this quiet, beautiful respite and the baby's sleeping.

0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 2>As soon as that baby cries. If you feel yourself

0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 2>go oh no, okay, if you heard yourself go oh no,

0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:06.120
<v Speaker 2>it's a he or.

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Sheet, it's a boy. But I just felt myself get

0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:10.960
<v Speaker 1>and this is just what happened their day. When I

0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.720
<v Speaker 1>was recording an audition, I'm in this. It's his nap time.

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm recording for auditioning for what probably one of the

0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.240
<v Speaker 1>biggest movies I've ever auditioned for. I hear him crying,

0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.360
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, no, I immediately I'm like no, no, no, no,

0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:24.520
<v Speaker 1>like you have to go back to like and I'm

0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:26.280
<v Speaker 1>stressing out and then I just go straight into that

0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.080
<v Speaker 1>panic aggression stress out mode.

0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:29.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, hold on a second. So let's just use as

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.720
<v Speaker 2>an example that is going to happen. That is going

0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.560
<v Speaker 2>to happen a million times. So when it does, this

0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.200
<v Speaker 2>isn't your first rodeo. Oh man, the body's going to

0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:41.520
<v Speaker 2>do its thing. The body will do its thing. You're

0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.360
<v Speaker 2>not going to stop the body from reacting. You know,

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.800
<v Speaker 2>they say, don't get nervous. Everybody gets nervous. You fled

0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:50.680
<v Speaker 2>is to let the channel, lets that by thely reaction,

0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:52.280
<v Speaker 2>reframe it in your mind. I'm going to get the

0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.920
<v Speaker 2>butterflies to fly information not gonna not have butterflies. It's like,

0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 2>oh boy, all right, let's go rock and roll. Use

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.880
<v Speaker 2>yourself talk, say I got this, not my first rodeo.

0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Whatever words you can use to say, Hey, I'm a mom.

0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 2>If they don't want me as a mom, too bad,

0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:12.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm good. I got this self talk. You know, take

0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 2>a breath, take take another one, take three, say out loud,

0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.360
<v Speaker 2>I hope you don't mind that. My baby's well, my

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.520
<v Speaker 2>heart's to thumping because my baby just cried. I hope

0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.640
<v Speaker 2>you don't just be vulnerable and gutsy and throw yourself

0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:32.120
<v Speaker 2>into your work and your role and to your you know,

0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:37.240
<v Speaker 2>your life and let the chips fall where they may.

0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.120
<v Speaker 2>You can control what you can control. You can't control

0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.480
<v Speaker 2>anything else. If they don't want you, to screw it,

0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.320
<v Speaker 2>you'll get another role and another role. That's the nature

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.080
<v Speaker 2>of this business. They're gonna say yes, they're going to

0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:49.920
<v Speaker 2>say no. They're gonna say yes, they're gonna say no,

0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:50.800
<v Speaker 2>we don't.

0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.400
<v Speaker 1>Care, which is where I think I've become a little

0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:56.320
<v Speaker 1>half empty. Two is the just then amounts of rejection

0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.840
<v Speaker 1>and the the uh you know, the social media and

0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:07.320
<v Speaker 1>the bully, all those things become. But now I again,

0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:11.200
<v Speaker 1>once I turned forty and once it's like there's there's

0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 1>a shift and going, Okay, this life is too short.

0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:16.120
<v Speaker 2>You got it, it's.

0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.120
<v Speaker 1>To ever have. And that's the same thing with my ex.

0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:22.160
<v Speaker 1>I hated his guts for at least well for a

0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:23.960
<v Speaker 1>long time, but when we even got divorced, I mean

0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.520
<v Speaker 1>I was I just had I just every morning I

0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:29.440
<v Speaker 1>woke up and I just I hated him. And now

0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm like that was such a disservice to myself because

0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.200
<v Speaker 1>good now and now we're great, we have a great relationship.

0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Everything is used because I'm like, I'd rather be friends.

0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't want why why would I hate him? It's

0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:42.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't want that energy in my body. I don't

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:44.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't want it for the kids.

0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:46.320
<v Speaker 2>It's just look, see, this is what I mean by

0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:48.960
<v Speaker 2>doing the next right thing is beautiful. You can use

0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.840
<v Speaker 2>every single success in your life to propel you to

0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:56.160
<v Speaker 2>the next one, and every single failure to go, oh good,

0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean that story is just beautiful. What you transmuted

0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.920
<v Speaker 2>relationship with your ex. Do that fifty thousand more times

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 2>as best you can. You just told me this beautiful

0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:10.200
<v Speaker 2>success story of you and your ex. Yes, do more

0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.840
<v Speaker 2>of that. When you get rejected, you go, you know,

0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.399
<v Speaker 2>I handle that rejection pretty well. Good for you. At

0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.480
<v Speaker 2>least I got an audition. At least I got a shot.

0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.800
<v Speaker 2>Some people don't get an audition. You've got an audition

0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:27.160
<v Speaker 2>and they rejected you. Rock and roll. I I want

0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:28.720
<v Speaker 2>you to have that self. I want you to be

0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:32.360
<v Speaker 2>your best friend, coach on your shoulder, talking to yourself,

0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:36.359
<v Speaker 2>getting yourself back in the arena every.

0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.520
<v Speaker 1>Single Yeah, and I love that, and that's definitely what

0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to bring into this new year. And I

0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.879
<v Speaker 1>guess the question too, aram that is, what how do

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:46.600
<v Speaker 1>you do that when the other person doesn't want to

0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.960
<v Speaker 1>meet you there? If there's someone that you want to have,

0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, a not that kind of relationship, or you

0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.439
<v Speaker 1>don't want that negativity, if you're how can you how

0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:59.520
<v Speaker 1>can you meet there? If that person doesn't want that back?

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.800
<v Speaker 2>You all go up, walk away, welcome. You can't change. Look,

0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.280
<v Speaker 2>you've got three little ones and they're all different. You

0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:07.600
<v Speaker 2>can't make them a certain way. You try your ber right.

0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:09.439
<v Speaker 1>I want people cup what you're doing with your book though,

0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:11.159
<v Speaker 1>is I'm almost like, guys, well, we don't have to

0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.000
<v Speaker 1>be angry at each other. Let's all get along and

0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:14.760
<v Speaker 1>we don't have to be friends. But can we at

0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.280
<v Speaker 1>least have like, you know, cordial Well.

0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:20.879
<v Speaker 2>You can say that out loud. Do whatever works. In

0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.800
<v Speaker 2>other words, there's not a formula to a successful life,

0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.440
<v Speaker 2>although I do believe this is the formula I eat.

0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 2>The more we I am heliotropic, my life goes great

0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.800
<v Speaker 2>when I get angry. I'm full of it. When I'm

0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:39.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, some kind of working up a froth about irritation.

0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:41.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, you were three minutes late for this podcast.

0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Took me about thirty two seconds to go get off

0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.280
<v Speaker 2>at Harry. And that's one of my things, which is

0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.800
<v Speaker 2>it never ends. So your job is to be the

0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.800
<v Speaker 2>most magnificent human being you can be, and that's a

0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:02.000
<v Speaker 2>full time job. And other people will be moved by that.

0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:06.000
<v Speaker 2>If people aren't operating to your liking, well are you

0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:09.200
<v Speaker 2>operating to your own liking? If you could say yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:11.080
<v Speaker 2>then let them be who they are. You don't have to.

0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Hang out with them, for sure. I think it's just

0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.040
<v Speaker 1>more hard to see so many people so angry in

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.520
<v Speaker 1>this world. That's where I just get frustrated. I'm like,

0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:21.440
<v Speaker 1>why do you have to be so angry?

0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Because they are whatever, lost in their own mental marass

0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:32.560
<v Speaker 2>of stupidity. And I say that with compassion. You've been stupid.

0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Look at you. You were angry at your ex and

0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:39.760
<v Speaker 2>then you untangled it from your own inner web. Nothing changed.

0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.440
<v Speaker 2>He's the same guy, and yet you just untangled whatever

0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.959
<v Speaker 2>web you had, whatever words and rationalizations you had for

0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.400
<v Speaker 2>what a no goodneck y was that you got out of.

0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:52.639
<v Speaker 2>They'll figure it out too. And if you can be

0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.080
<v Speaker 2>helpful to them with a hand on their shoulder or

0:19:56.320 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 2>some kind of wisdom, then they'll untangle from their anger.

0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:02.280
<v Speaker 2>But you see people who are angry and you go,

0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:05.520
<v Speaker 2>oh my god, I used to be angry at my ex.

0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:08.639
<v Speaker 2>Let me see if I can be helpful and untangle

0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:12.720
<v Speaker 2>him or from their stupidity. Not in the judgmental you're

0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.440
<v Speaker 2>better than them, but there but for the grace of God,

0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.359
<v Speaker 2>go I. You just said you were a knucklehead with him.

0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:20.960
<v Speaker 2>Now you're not power to you girl?

0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Is that why you wrote this book? To help people,

0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, getting to that heliotropic state.

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.040
<v Speaker 2>Yep, it's for me. It's not for I mean, this

0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:44.760
<v Speaker 2>is my job for the rest of my life until

0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.399
<v Speaker 2>I croak, and as many people in the world if

0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.760
<v Speaker 2>they could get this, Oh my god. You mean it's

0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:54.480
<v Speaker 2>as simple as that. Yes, well, yeah, but what about

0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:56.560
<v Speaker 2>what about nothing? I got a chapter in there, do

0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.440
<v Speaker 2>it anyway? There's a million reasons why it's hard to

0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:03.920
<v Speaker 2>be helio be heliotropic anyway. I stole that from mother Teresa.

0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.359
<v Speaker 2>And you know what I mean, it's not do good anyway,

0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:11.200
<v Speaker 2>be good anyway? Yeah, but what about when they're what Yeah,

0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:13.920
<v Speaker 2>you be generous anyway. What about when people take advantage

0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.919
<v Speaker 2>of you? Yeah, that's okay, you know what, I'm okay

0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.320
<v Speaker 2>with that. I'm going to go to my grave feeling

0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:21.800
<v Speaker 2>really good about being a good person. And I can

0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:23.040
<v Speaker 2>be a better person.

0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:25.960
<v Speaker 1>And you can still be a good person and having

0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.320
<v Speaker 1>boundaries too. You don't want people to walk all over you.

0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:31.719
<v Speaker 2>To definitionally being a good person a good person. No, no,

0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.040
<v Speaker 2>you can't. You can't. You can't come in the house,

0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:37.720
<v Speaker 2>not with those shoes. I'm a very good person, which

0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:39.520
<v Speaker 2>means you stay outside with those mney shoes.

0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.600
<v Speaker 1>Where do you go? Not heliotropic in your life? Because

0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:47.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious as I get irritated, what's your biggest thing? Like? Yeah,

0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:49.200
<v Speaker 1>what you say? You got irritated with? What?

0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? You were late for my podcast. I'm a guest.

0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:56.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm organizing my late life to do this podcast.

0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:58.720
<v Speaker 1>I had to put my baby down. Excuse me, I

0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:01.199
<v Speaker 1>have every right you have my life.

0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:03.680
<v Speaker 2>No, no, but here I am. You're putting your baby

0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:06.960
<v Speaker 2>down way more important than me. You know, Well, it's

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:10.880
<v Speaker 2>a schedule for one. That's an small irritation. It's tiny,

0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:13.560
<v Speaker 2>But I'm ten times better than I used to be Jenna.

0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:15.920
<v Speaker 2>That's when I'm saying it out loud, I'm poking fun

0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:19.560
<v Speaker 2>at myself. I used to be way worse. This work

0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:24.119
<v Speaker 2>has made me a better person. I get irritated way less.

0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:26.880
<v Speaker 2>You asked me, what are my biggest I think when

0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.720
<v Speaker 2>people don't care, when people are dishonest, when people are

0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:37.119
<v Speaker 2>are mean and nasty and disrespectful and unkind, and it

0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:39.719
<v Speaker 2>does shock me. And they're in my ecosystem, They're in

0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:42.080
<v Speaker 2>my world somehow, And how did I wind up with

0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:44.959
<v Speaker 2>this person in my life? And I let them in

0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:49.600
<v Speaker 2>or something? And so that's hard for me, Like how

0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:51.399
<v Speaker 2>did I create a lot for this person? This is

0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:56.919
<v Speaker 2>in my world? But I really work at that of

0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:02.560
<v Speaker 2>not being irritated. And when I get irritated, because.

0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Give us again some little nuggets for us to take

0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:07.160
<v Speaker 1>away with that, because you've given us a lot.

0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:09.359
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So I say, what else from the book? I

0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:11.280
<v Speaker 2>see it? I mean, okay, So every chapter in that

0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.320
<v Speaker 2>book is a reminder to me. Oh right, I can.

0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:16.840
<v Speaker 2>I can take the high road. There's a chapter take

0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:20.960
<v Speaker 2>the road. There's chapter smile and move on. When I

0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:25.920
<v Speaker 2>get irritated, take a breath, smile, smile, but just too

0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:35.480
<v Speaker 2>big a smile and move on. Smiling literally changes you, okay,

0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:38.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, be your own best friend, be your own son.

0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:41.280
<v Speaker 2>You know that's a tiny eat. By the way, each

0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:43.760
<v Speaker 2>chapter is one page. What does that mean? It means

0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:47.240
<v Speaker 2>take care of yourself. I do a lot of personal hygiene.

0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:50.440
<v Speaker 2>I eat well, exercise, I get outside, I spend time

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:53.720
<v Speaker 2>with loved ones. I am my own son. I watch

0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:58.320
<v Speaker 2>myself talk. I watch the words that I say to myself, Harry,

0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:01.480
<v Speaker 2>You're such an idiot, you idiot? What what was that?

0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:05.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm rattling them off because there's so many and they're

0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:09.720
<v Speaker 2>interchangeably good. If I hear myself saying you idiot, because

0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:13.520
<v Speaker 2>I'll say that, like, what's that? I'm not? You know,

0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:17.280
<v Speaker 2>I just need a mistake, right, And so I love

0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:21.320
<v Speaker 2>my ability to up my own game by seeing my

0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:26.880
<v Speaker 2>flaws as ooh, those are teachers. Every obstacle is a teacher,

0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:34.959
<v Speaker 2>every turd fest, every probect. I can't say that, I mean,

0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:35.920
<v Speaker 2>I shouldn't say that, but.

0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:37.919
<v Speaker 1>No, I love no. I love that. I always say that.

0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:41.840
<v Speaker 1>It's like every everything. I love sometimes making the mistakes

0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:43.840
<v Speaker 1>because I get great lessons from those. Those are the

0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:46.200
<v Speaker 1>greatest lessons that's the.

0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Whole idea, Jenna. You just answered it like, oh that,

0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:52.040
<v Speaker 2>let that mistake teach me. What was the lessons? First grade?

0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:55.040
<v Speaker 2>Second grade? I got to repeat it? Did I not learn?

0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:59.200
<v Speaker 2>How about rushing? How about rushing? Look, I'm at three

0:24:59.240 --> 0:25:03.399
<v Speaker 2>million mile delta, I'm a permanent diamond, and I still

0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:06.080
<v Speaker 2>rush to the airport. Like, what is up with that?

0:25:06.200 --> 0:25:09.639
<v Speaker 2>I think this is the year we'll see that I

0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:13.880
<v Speaker 2>don't rush. I mean, how stupid is that? Rushing? That's

0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:18.760
<v Speaker 2>dumbest dumb, you know, not dressing properly, not being Oh

0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:20.760
<v Speaker 2>I got one for this year. I read it. I

0:25:20.800 --> 0:25:24.760
<v Speaker 2>got so many piles of debris that are just messes,

0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:30.760
<v Speaker 2>and I allow messes to gobble up my precious energy

0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:33.000
<v Speaker 2>so I can clean up my messes or not make them,

0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:36.360
<v Speaker 2>you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, And so I

0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:40.840
<v Speaker 2>love this work because it's simple. I read a lot,

0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:43.920
<v Speaker 2>and I forget most everything I read, but I can

0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:50.480
<v Speaker 2>remember be the sun. Not to be kind, Jane. I

0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:52.240
<v Speaker 2>want you to spread this to the world. I want

0:25:52.280 --> 0:25:57.800
<v Speaker 2>you to be uplifting to yourself mostly really kind to yourself,

0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:00.560
<v Speaker 2>no matter what you got through the little nerds to

0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:05.520
<v Speaker 2>take care of plus yourself four nerds, four little nerds

0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:07.439
<v Speaker 2>to take care of. I want you to be so

0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:11.720
<v Speaker 2>compassionate for giving and loving to the four of you

0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:17.040
<v Speaker 2>that your life is forever immediately transformed. That this podcast

0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:20.080
<v Speaker 2>just sticks with you like a virus that never leaves

0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:25.199
<v Speaker 2>a healthy virus. You're immune from getting bummed out. But

0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:27.440
<v Speaker 2>your buddy, I love that you're bummed out in this

0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:31.920
<v Speaker 2>lasts I don't know a minute, Okay.

0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:34.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean it's a good reminder for everyone to

0:26:34.440 --> 0:26:36.520
<v Speaker 1>go into the new year to be the Sun not

0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:39.200
<v Speaker 1>the Salt. And I just I love that, and again

0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:43.560
<v Speaker 1>I just want like for me again, this year is

0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:48.240
<v Speaker 1>all about just shedding that energy of letting other people's

0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:52.960
<v Speaker 1>hatefulness come into my sacred space. And so I think

0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:55.280
<v Speaker 1>again that's a great reminder, be the Sun not the salt.

0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:56.840
<v Speaker 1>And that'll be kind of my mantra for the year.

0:26:56.880 --> 0:27:00.000
<v Speaker 1>And I hope it's everyone else's that's listening. So thank you.

0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:01.880
<v Speaker 1>And where can our listeners find you?

0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:05.680
<v Speaker 2>You can find me on Be the Sun Not the Salt,

0:27:06.280 --> 0:27:09.760
<v Speaker 2>on your favorite wherever you find podcasts, Be the Sun

0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:12.119
<v Speaker 2>Not the Salt. As a website, we try and keep

0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:16.280
<v Speaker 2>fresh with new stuff. But we're going to do podcasts

0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:19.680
<v Speaker 2>of guests who can tell stories about how this has

0:27:19.760 --> 0:27:20.639
<v Speaker 2>helped them.

0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:22.600
<v Speaker 1>I love that you want to.

0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:24.680
<v Speaker 2>Be a podcast guest. All you got to be is

0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:27.920
<v Speaker 2>a good person with a story to tell, and how

0:27:28.000 --> 0:27:31.199
<v Speaker 2>Be the Sun Not the Salt has helped you. So

0:27:31.440 --> 0:27:33.800
<v Speaker 2>whenever you're ready, if you want to be a guest,

0:27:34.880 --> 0:27:36.800
<v Speaker 2>and you say, you know this really helped me. In

0:27:36.880 --> 0:27:40.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three, I met this guy, I read this book,

0:27:40.040 --> 0:27:42.720
<v Speaker 2>saw this thing, and it's been so much My life

0:27:42.720 --> 0:27:44.720
<v Speaker 2>has been so much better. That story will help a

0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:48.840
<v Speaker 2>bunch of people, Janna, So find us on where you

0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:52.159
<v Speaker 2>find podcasts Be the Sun Not the Salt, pick up

0:27:52.160 --> 0:27:57.280
<v Speaker 2>the book, give it out as a gift. Mostly practice

0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:01.200
<v Speaker 2>being that way. And that's my mission and for myself

0:28:01.320 --> 0:28:05.080
<v Speaker 2>and for you. And I'm not kidding about that offer

0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:07.480
<v Speaker 2>for front row seats at the Big Oh.

0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:11.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to have my peeps get your info. So

0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:15.639
<v Speaker 1>thank you. Will definitely take you up on that. I

0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:18.720
<v Speaker 1>really appreciate it. But seriously, thank you, and thanks for

0:28:18.760 --> 0:28:21.240
<v Speaker 1>coming on. And I'll see you in Detroit.

0:28:20.880 --> 0:28:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Soon, okay. I'll talk to you soon.

0:28:22.960 --> 0:28:25.199
<v Speaker 1>Okay, And I'll be a guest on your podcast and

0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:27.040
<v Speaker 1>I'll be three minutes early. All right, So how's that.

0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:29.520
<v Speaker 2>But you have to have a story to tell about

0:28:29.520 --> 0:28:30.320
<v Speaker 2>how this really helped.

0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:33.479
<v Speaker 1>I will. I will for sure it already has. Thank you,

0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:34.680
<v Speaker 1>all right, Bye bye,