1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. You may not know this yet, and if 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,279 Speaker 1: you don't, prepare to be blown away. We are creating 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: right now the first ever Stuff you Should Know book. 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: It's called Stuff you Should Know Colon, an incomplete compendium 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: of mostly interesting things. And you can preorder it now, 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: that's right. And if you pre order, everyone, there's an 7 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: incentive because you get a free gift. And don't worry 8 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: if you've already pre ordered, because you can just head 9 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: on over to stuff you Should Read books dot com. 10 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: It's a very beautiful little web page and it's got 11 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: all the information. And if you already pre ordered, can't 12 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: you just like upload your receipt and get that pre 13 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: order gift. Yep, you can, and they will mail it 14 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: off to you and you will get into mail and 15 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: you say, oh, thank you, don't mind if I do. 16 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: And it's a poster that you will love and cherish 17 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: and possibly pass on down to your children as an heirloom. 18 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: That's right, everyone, We couldn't be more excited about this book. 19 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: It's really coming together. Well, it's us through and through 20 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: and you can go check out some excerpts at stuff 21 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: you Should Read books dot com. Welcome to Stuff you 22 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: Should Know, a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, 23 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. 24 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: Chuck Bryan over there, and this is Stuff you Should 25 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: Know Poliocast. That's right. Before we get going, though, we 26 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: want to tell everyone that we have a book coming 27 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: out called Stuff You Should Know Colon, an incomplete compendium 28 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: of mostly interesting things that you can buy and pre 29 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: order online, and pre orders are very um it's a 30 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: very big deal to pre order the book. It's I 31 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: never knew what a big deal it was, but pre 32 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: orders are very important for the author, are they? I 33 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: didn't really hope. I'm kind of worried. Now they're a 34 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: big deal. Okay, well, uh yeah, I guess the very body. 35 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: You won't regret pre ordering the book. How about that? 36 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: And why? Because you get a special gift. Not only 37 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: that you get us I shall get for sure. You 38 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: just go upload your receipt at stuff you Should Read 39 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: books dot com. Um. But also the book itself is 40 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: really great too. I think you're gonna like it. Twenty 41 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: six full robust chapters that are going to just knock 42 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: your socks off. And it's a Stuff you Should Know 43 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: we that's right, and we got great illustrations by Carl Minardo. 44 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: We had a great writer working with us named Neils Parker, 45 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: and a great publisher and flat Iron, and we're just 46 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: super excited about it and we appreciate your support. Yep. 47 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: So you can go preorder that book everywhere. Okay, um wow, Chuck, 48 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: we're getting really good at that. Now let's talk polio. 49 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: So we're not good at it's transitioning. No, we're not. 50 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: We never have been. Um So polio I was when 51 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: I was researching this, I kept running across whenever I 52 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: typed in polio, you know that auto suggest in the 53 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: search bar um, it would say things like does polio 54 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: still exist? And it absolutely does. But it's one of 55 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: those diseases that we're really really lead close to eradicating 56 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: thanks to UH an extraordinarily robust vaccination campaign UM one 57 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: of the first really big vaccination campaigns UM in the 58 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: history of the world, and it was also one of 59 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,679 Speaker 1: the most successful too, so much that we're down to 60 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: just three countries. I believe Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Nigeria are 61 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: the only three countries where polio is still endemic, where 62 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: like you can just walk around and catch polio. Um. 63 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: And there are outbreaks in other countries. We'll talk about 64 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: exactly why. But it went from this global worldwide problem 65 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the twentieth century down to three 66 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: countries and we're like that close to to getting rid 67 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: of it forever from the planet basically. Yeah. So um. 68 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: And it's interesting to to read about polio and it's 69 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: vaccine during the middle of our own pandemic with coronavirus 70 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: and COVID nineteen because there's there's a lot of similarities 71 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: and overlap. It's interesting there's a pandemic. Yeah, that's why 72 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: I haven't seen you in three months. I know. Are 73 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: you getting used to it yet? I mean sure, just 74 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: as anyone gets used to something that stinks. Oh thank you. 75 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: I don't mean not seeing you, I mean everything but short, 76 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: that's part of that, that's for sure, part of that. 77 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: But it is weird talking about it, for sure, because 78 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: there are some some real similarities. For sure. Yeah. So 79 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: polio is the disease. Uh, But polio virus is the 80 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: antio virus, which is a virus of the intestinal tract, 81 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: which is an RNA virus like COVID nineteen. Um. But 82 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: the disease itself, like covid is the sickness, polio is 83 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: the disease, as coronavirus is the poliovirus. I mixed that 84 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: all up, but I think it's right. So coronavirus is 85 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: to covid what poliovirus is to polio. Yeah, that's the 86 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: cleaner way to say it, right. And then apparently polio specifically, 87 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: if you say, um, oh this person, my grandfather had polio, um, 88 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: you're not talking about just a polio infection. There's a 89 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: specific kind of disease that you can get from the 90 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: polio virus where it attacks your central nervous system and 91 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: can cause all sorts of problems. And that specifically is 92 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: what somebody's saying when they say they had polio, which 93 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: is in that case called polio mielitis, Which is what 94 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: people are talking about when they say when they're talking 95 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: about polio, the disease. Yeah, because a lot of people 96 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 1: got the poliovirus UM didn't know it had no symptoms. 97 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: Your body kicks in the gear, that immune system just 98 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: fights it off. You got those antibodies for life, and 99 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: that's it. That happened a lot um. But yeah, like 100 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: you said, if you if you get polio, that means 101 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: that it hits your your central nervous system. And we'll 102 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: get more into detail about all this, but UM polio 103 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: virus is where it colonizes is in the throat and 104 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: the digest of system. And we're talking about uh, your 105 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: feces being contaminated or infectious and contaminated and your saliva 106 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: depending on how you get it. So there's basically two 107 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: ways to pass it along, either with your poop or 108 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: with your saliva. UM. And the fecal transmission is much 109 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: more prevalent, especially in the developing world because of poor sanitation, 110 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: and like if you look at just the natural history 111 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: of the virus, of the poliovirus, it's it's ideal is 112 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: to just replicate, right, That's the whole purpose of the viruses, 113 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: Just make as many copies of itself as possible and 114 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: so living in the water um, the drinking water supply 115 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: and then infecting people UM, infecting their gut, replicating being 116 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: passed as feces back into the water supply to infect 117 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: other people, but without you know, really developing symptoms and people. 118 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: That's ideal for for the virus itself. UM. Every once 119 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: in a while though, I thinking about one quarter of 120 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: people who become infected the the the poliovirus will enter 121 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: the blood stream, It'll leave the gut and enter the 122 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: blood stream and will produce what's called viremia, where um 123 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: it infects the blood, it starts to infect other organs 124 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: and those people will develop flu like symptoms for a 125 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,119 Speaker 1: couple of days. That sees, that's still not that bad. 126 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: Probably nothing we would amount at a global eradication campaign against. 127 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: It's just that in a very small proportion of people 128 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: who become infected, the poliovirus not only infects the blood stream, 129 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: it actually travels to the central nervous system and attacks that. 130 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: And then that is the real problem that comes from polio. 131 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: What we were talking about earlier, poliomyelitis. Yeah, and no 132 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: one knows why that happens. Uh, no one knows. I 133 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: mean basically they just think it's it is completely random. 134 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that seems to be the case of 135 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: whether or not you get the paralytic version or not. Uh, 136 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: it is not many people, but when you spread those 137 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: numbers out, it can be a lot of people. So 138 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: when you look at numbers like uh point five percent 139 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: of everyone infected UM have paralysis. If you look at 140 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: a human population, that's a lot of people, right, Um Yeah, 141 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: when when Yeah, just that very small percent of everybody 142 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: or a ton of people around the world, and for 143 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: centuries have you know, an infection. It does add up 144 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: big time for sure enough. So and so not just 145 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: the number also, chuck, but just the devastating effects that 146 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: UM polio can have, poliomyelitis can have on a person. 147 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: It's um, it's a really bad jam because not only 148 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: can it cause what's called a cute flaccid paralysis, where 149 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: your your motor neurons or your muscles are attacked so 150 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: that you can't you your muscle and your um, your 151 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: limb starts to wither, maybe you just become fully paralyzed. 152 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: It can also UM travel to your brain and affect 153 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: things like you're swallowing, reflex or breathing, and so it 154 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: can very very easily kill you when it starts to 155 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: to progress to the central nervous system phase of poliomyelitis. Yeah, 156 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: and there's no treatment for polio UM and we'll talk 157 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: about the vaccine here in a minute to a great extent. 158 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: But um, it's just like any other virus. You let it, 159 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: you let it run its course. Um, your body will 160 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: probably do the right thing and step up and fight 161 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: it back and not let it get to your blood stream. 162 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: But like you said, even if it gets to your 163 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: blood stream, you might just get sick. Um. But that 164 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: point five percent chance that you actually have the paralytic version. Um, 165 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: there is no cure for that. No, which was weird. 166 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: I was like, so what you're you know, you're just 167 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: a goner if you get pilot poliomyelitis or that's what 168 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: the case was. And apparently your body can still fight 169 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: it off. You can get polio myelitis and if you 170 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: receive the proper care um. One of the one of 171 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: the better um inventions to combat polio is called the 172 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: iron lung, which would breathe for you using a bellows 173 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: and negative and positive pressure to move your chest up 174 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: and down. Um, Like that could keep you alive long 175 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: enough to give you a chance for your body to 176 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: fight off the infection with your immune system. But like, 177 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: that's not a cure. That's just keeping you alive long 178 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: enough for your body to fight it off. It was 179 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: really surprising to me that there's still to this day 180 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: no treatment for polio. Yeah, I can't help but think 181 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: of the Big Lebowski when I think of iron lungs. 182 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: Who is in an iron lung in that Remember when 183 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: they go to visit the they think the kid um 184 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: stole the car or they found it that they found 185 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: the kids school work in the back of the car, 186 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: and they got to his house and it was this 187 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 1: this former TV writer huho, who's inside and he's in 188 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 1: an iron lung. I genuinely don't remember that part. I'm 189 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: sure I'm being shouted at by some of our listeners, 190 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: but sorry, it was played for laughs. The one I 191 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: think of is um Ralph Macchio and the Outsiders after 192 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: he gets burned from running in that house to save 193 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: those in iron lung. That's what I thought, and so 194 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: I looked it up to verify, and there's no mention 195 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: of it. So I guess when I was a kid, 196 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: I just made up that Ralph Maccio is in an 197 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: iron lung and the Outsiders. If I'm not mistaken, he 198 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: was just had a I guess what you would call 199 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: a respirator today, Okay, but wasn't then. Yeah, I think 200 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: he was. I think he was faced down and traction 201 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: and suspended and on a respirator. If I'm not mistaken, well, 202 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: my my tiny little impressionable brain translated that into an 203 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: iron lung. That's okay, stay gold, my brain hasn't gotten 204 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 1: much better, Chuck, Sure it has so. Um So you 205 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: can survive. You can fend off a polio infection, even 206 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: with polio myelitis. But the problem is that very frequently 207 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: would would not let you survive. Um, it would kill you. 208 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: And so, like we said, just mounting this campaign became 209 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: kind of paramount. But polio is tough because they think 210 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: it's such an old virus. They think it's been around 211 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: for a very very long time. And that's kind of 212 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: evidence by the fact that polio is um it's only 213 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: humans that that it lives in and tries to replicate, 214 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: and there's it's not like other viruses where there's like 215 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: reservoir animals that it can um, it can hang out 216 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: in and and and just basically stay alive until it 217 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: can infect a human. It's just humans basically, although there 218 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: was a case in nineteen sixty six of some chimps 219 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: becoming infected from humans with polio. In that sense, yeah, uh, 220 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: And you know, if we need to um. If you 221 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: need to go over viruses again, folks, look no further 222 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: than the recent stuff you should know Classic from March 223 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: twenty Virus Talk with Josh and Chuck. That was from 224 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: March twenty, the rerelease What do you what do we 225 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: call those classics? Select? Aren't you like one half of 226 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: this podcast? I am, but I call them classics in 227 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: my brain. I don't know what the official branding is. Selects. Yeah, 228 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: like we have hands selected this classic episode. Yeah, classics. 229 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: I think if you scramble the words selects, classics is 230 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: in there somewhere, but I think spelled. But yeah, that 231 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: one just came out recently. So that'll catch up on 232 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: what a virus is. But should we take a break 233 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: and talk a little bit about the ancient history? Perhaps 234 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: a folio? Yes, all right, we'll be right back everybody. 235 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: I want to learn about how to take the perfect 236 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: all about fractals, think it's un the Lizzie Border murders, 237 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: that kind of all runs on the plane everything we 238 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: should know. Ward up, Jerry, all right, so I mentioned 239 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: ancient history. Um, we don't know exactly where polio started 240 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: because old diseases have shoddy record keeping. Um, they just 241 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: didn't keep up with stuff like they do now, but 242 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: we do. You know, if you looked at some of 243 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: the mummies in ancient Egypt, you might see some limb 244 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: deformities that could have been polio. U. There are UM 245 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: paintings on walls and things that maybe could be polio. 246 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: But this is us extrapolating this from a modern lens. Um. 247 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: They you know, those limbs could have been smashed in 248 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: a you know, heavy object accidents as well a combine accident. 249 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: Well I was going to say that, but they didn't 250 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: have combines, so um, a barge accident, how about that? 251 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: So UM. Like, over the years, people were studying polio, 252 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: and I mean we kind of started to get a 253 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: pretty good handle on it. We didn't understand what viruses were, 254 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: so we didn't know it was a virus until the 255 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: twentieth century. No, the twentieth century, I think eight are old. 256 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: Frank Carl Landsteiner, who developed UM blood types, was also 257 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: the one of the two people who identified the polio 258 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: virus in nineteen o eight, but other people had contributed 259 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,359 Speaker 1: up to that point. Like it was recognized as UM 260 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: being an epidemic disease, that there were outbreaks that kind 261 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: of stuff, and but everybody was kind of okay with 262 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: polio existing, like it was not something that we were 263 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: happy about, but nothing that like there was this great 264 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: urgency to cure until about the beginning of the twentieth century. 265 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: And they think that that people living together, close in 266 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: close quarters, urbanization and better sanitation lead to polio outbreaks 267 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: that hadn't been seen before because the better sanitation produced 268 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: a population that had not been exposed to polio virus. Yeah, 269 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: that seems counterintuitive, it does, but it makes sense because 270 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: if you've got a virgin population, that thing can just 271 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: hop from person to person to person, whereas if you 272 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: have an endemic population where any proportion of the population 273 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: is already immune from having been exposed to the virus before. 274 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: Because don't forget, remember we said a lot of people, 275 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: most people, I think people who are infected never even 276 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: show any signs or symptoms. So if you don't have 277 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: people like that anymore because of improved sanitation, but you 278 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: also don't have a vaccine program, you've got a virgin population, 279 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: that virus can just run rampant in and that's familiar 280 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: that it does. That's what started happening in the early 281 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: twentie century, and it started scaring the Bejesus out of 282 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: parents because it was largely affecting kids. Yeah, and it 283 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: happened in clusters, UM because it was so easily transmitted, 284 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: and like you said, with the virgin population, that would 285 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: be these big outbreaks and that causes panic, uh with 286 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: parents especially UM. In nineteen sixteen in the US, six 287 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: thousand people died from polio in about twenty seven thousand 288 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 1: paralytic cases, UM ninety two paralytic cases. And also we 289 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: said in our in our book, you remember in the Mr. 290 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: Potato Head chapter that polio outbreak is what made Mr 291 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: potato Head one of the big, the first big, because 292 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: so many kids were We're stuck at home that summer 293 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: because of a polio outbreak. That's right, and that that's 294 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: exactly what happened, because you know, kind of mirroring what 295 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: we're seeing now is they would shut down parks, in 296 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: swimming pools and schools in public events. UM and America 297 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: rallied behind it back then and said, yeah, that's what 298 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 1: we should do for the good of the public. UM. 299 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: It's not happening now, unfortunately, but back then everyone got 300 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: on board. UM. Between I think a quarter of a 301 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: million and six hundred and fifty thousand Americans. Um, we're 302 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: alive at any given time in the twentieth century that 303 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: had lifelong uh issues caused by polio. Right, that's a 304 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: lot of people. I mean, that's a real problem. You know. 305 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: That's not over the twentieth century, that's at any given 306 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: point in the twentieth century, right, Yeah, at any given point. 307 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: So you can kind of understand why around then, you know, 308 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: especially when when people were seeing entire classrooms of children 309 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 1: struck down, you know, with polio, some of whom you know, 310 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: went on to have lifelong mobility issues, some of whom died. 311 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 1: Um that that was that scared parents a lot, and 312 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: it's scared everybody so much so that it kind of 313 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,479 Speaker 1: laid the groundwork for this big national and actually an 314 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: international push toward coming up with, if not a treatment, 315 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: which they tried at first and found that was not happening, 316 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: then a vaccine for polio. And and that's exactly what 317 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: we did. Yeah. Uh. And a big driver for this 318 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: vaccine was a little organization called the March of Dimes, 319 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: which was originally founded by Franklin Roosevelt, was called the 320 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis And I never knew this, 321 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: but they had a march and people would send dimes 322 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: as donations to the organization, and that's why it's called 323 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: the March of Dimes. It's amazing. And because of that, 324 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: because of all those individuals sending in dimes to the 325 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: March of Dimes or to them, the Infantile Paralysis Foundation, UM, 326 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: the that laid the groundwork for the financial support for 327 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: all of this research that was going on, specifically for 328 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: the research of one of the guys who came up 329 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: with a vaccine for polio. Because we actually have more 330 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: than one UM. But the most famous of them all 331 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: was Jonas Salk, who came into the picture in about 332 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: and because of those dimes that were contributed by average, 333 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 1: everyday people, because those that money directly funded his research. 334 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: He very famously refused to patent the UM the vaccine 335 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: that he came up with for polio and just said, 336 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: this belongs to the world. Yeah, just like a farmer, bros. 337 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: Same exactly, same morals, right right, UM, so this is 338 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: a good chance. I'm glad when we get to do 339 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: shows like this because um, Jonas Salt gets so much 340 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: credit and deservedly so as a genuinely great human that 341 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: walked the planet. Um. But a lot of people had 342 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: chipped in over the years to get this vaccine where 343 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: it was. And we get a chance to talk about 344 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: those people now, which is always fun. UM. In the 345 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: nineteen forties, late nineteen forties, John Franklin Enders, Thomas huckle 346 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: Weller and Frederick Chapman Robbins, all three serial killers. That's right, 347 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: they figured out how to grow the poliovirus culture in 348 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: a lab, which if you want a vaccine, that's the 349 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: first big step is to grow that culture in a lab. 350 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: And they won in nineteen fifty four for those efforts. Uh, 351 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: they won the Nobel Prize in Medicine, which is great. Yeah, 352 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: it was um so the first that was a huge 353 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: first step. Like you were saying, the people had tried 354 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: to create a vaccine even before that first step, though, 355 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: I guess the old fashioned way. UM. Brody and Colemer 356 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: John Colemer, I don't know Brody's first name, but they 357 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: when they were working together, UM, they created a vaccine 358 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: that actually killed uh, five of their ten thousand test subjects, 359 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: which was not um. It wasn't good. Uh, and it 360 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: actually kind of set the whole the whole vaccine UM 361 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 1: movement back a hint. But astoundingly, it didn't kill it. 362 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: And rather than saying like, no, we're not going to 363 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: try this, people looked at polio cases and said this 364 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: is so bad. We need to keep pushing forward despite 365 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: that and so UM. By the time Salt came along 366 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,239 Speaker 1: and started working on his vaccine, you know, people were 367 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: already a little jumpy about the idea UM, and it 368 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: was made all the more so that he was trying 369 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: UH an unproven form of vaccine, whereas most vaccines used 370 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: UM attenuated virus, which is it's live, but it's a 371 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 1: weekend version of the virus, and it's in a UM. 372 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: It's it's in a much smaller dose. What what Salt 373 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: was suggesting, what he wanted to use was a an 374 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: inactivated virus, which is it's dead in the in the 375 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: sense that can't replicate no longer. It's been treated with formaldehyde. 376 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's a huge dose of it. So 377 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: if it's not dead, you're in big trouble. Yeah, And 378 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: it was a big deal of the time because it 379 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: was a new science and a lot of scientists said 380 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: that I don't think you could administer this much even 381 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: uh killed virus safely. And so what you had was 382 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: a couple of different things going on, a couple of 383 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: potential pathways to take. Was give a little bit of 384 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: that weakened virus that's still alive to kids, which we 385 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: know is going to infect them with a virus. So 386 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: it's gonna generate those antibodies, but hopefully it's not gonna 387 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: be strong enough to get to that central nervous system 388 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: point of infection or super dose them with this inactive virus, 389 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: and that's going to cause antibodies in the blood, so 390 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: that will prevent polio from happening. That will keep it 391 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: from going to the central nervous system. They knew that, uh, 392 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: and that's great news. But boy, you better be sure 393 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 1: that that virus is perfect, because if it's not, then 394 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: you're in big trouble. Right And not only not only 395 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: that that's that's a big risk with it, but if 396 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: you do it right, if the risk goes very close 397 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: to zero. The other problem with it is because it 398 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: produces antibodies in the blood stream, that leaves out the gut, 399 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: which means that you could still be infected by polio 400 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: and colonize your gut and replicate and be passed in 401 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: your feces. But because you have those antibodies in your 402 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,479 Speaker 1: in your blood stream, it's going to protect you from 403 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: ever developing poliomyelitis. Yeah, they were trying to stop the disease, 404 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: not stop the virus. Right. Well, it depends on the paradigm, 405 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: Like the one that actually infects you with polio is 406 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: going to prevent any poliovirus from ever colonizing your gut 407 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: ever again, Um, so it depends on which approach you 408 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: were coming from. And over the course of some you know, 409 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 1: a couple of decades, both came into use enough around 410 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: the world that we actually have come close to eradicating 411 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: polio thanks to this combination of both of them. Yeah, 412 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: so salk Um developed a two part test that he 413 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: used on himself and volunteers, and then in nineteen fifty 414 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: four you had to you know, this was you had 415 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: to get a massive pr campaign behind this, like, uh, 416 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: in a big way because they had to vaccinate a 417 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: million children. They were called the Polio Pioneers. And even 418 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: though it was even though it looked good, it's still 419 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: a big deal to vaccinate a million kids with this 420 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 1: new vaccine that you're not quite sure about yet, but 421 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: they figured just that was their only choice. They're like, 422 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: we can't just let polio continue to thrive and paralyze 423 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: and kill our chill during we have to take a 424 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: chance with these pioneers, right. So so during this polio 425 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: pioneer um experiment UM, it was actually, from what I saw, 426 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: the first double blind in a major public health study, 427 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: so no one knew whether they were getting the placebo 428 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: or not, or getting the vaccine. But one segment of UM, 429 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: this group of polio pioneers, two hundred thousand of them 430 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: were given a vaccine with UH that wasn't inactivated. So 431 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: it's a huge dose of still alive polio vaccine. And 432 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: forty thou of those two hundred thousand people came down 433 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: with polio. Two hundred of them were kids who developed 434 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: paralysis and ten died. And this was huge, huge, Like 435 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,959 Speaker 1: can you imagine a setback like that were two hundred 436 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: thousand kids were given a vaccine that hadn't been done properly, 437 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: like that would just stop it in its tracks now. 438 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: But again, because as polio was so bad, America at 439 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: the time was feeling very utilitarian and said, you know, 440 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: two kids developing paralysis is horrible. But without this vaccine, UM, 441 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: you know, in ninety seven thousand had developed paralysis. So 442 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: again they still pushed forward. Even with the government temporarily 443 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 1: suspending vaccination programs or this this test, I believe um 444 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: American parents still move forward and vaccinated their kids anyway. 445 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: With this this salk Um what came to be known 446 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: the IPv or um inactive polio virus that that salk developed. 447 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: That's right, the inactivated poliovirus vaccine just still around today. 448 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: Uh and again doesn't prevent the the infection um, but 449 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: it does prevent the bloodstream from moving it on to 450 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: the central nervous system, which is so that's poliomyelitis. That's 451 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: again what people mean when they say polio. That's right. 452 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: Should we take another break and talk about the other vaccine? 453 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: All right, We'll be right back to talk about the 454 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: cheaper vaccine. Right after this. I want to learn about 455 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 1: a Terroristorto College act, how to take a perfect But 456 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: with all about fractal kiscon that's another hun the Lizzie 457 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: Border murders that they kind of all runs on the plane. 458 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:43,719 Speaker 1: Everything this we should know word up Jerry. All right. 459 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: So there's another guy who is somewhat famous, but not 460 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: nearly as famous as Jonas salk Um. Salk he announced 461 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: his findings on CBS Radio UM and became like a 462 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,479 Speaker 1: household name overnight. I think America was kind of smitten 463 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: with him because he had tested the vaccine on himself, 464 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: his wife, his three sons, sterilizing his his syringes in 465 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: his own kitchen. Um. And he was very much derided 466 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: by his main rival, a guy named Albert Sabin or Sabin, 467 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: I'm not sure which way you pronounced it. I don't 468 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: think it matters at this point. Oh that's a good one. 469 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: Let's go with Sabine. So Albert Sabine Um. He came 470 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: up with what we were talking about, the other kind 471 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: of vaccine and attenuated virus that had a lot of 472 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: advantages over um Salks virus or Salts vaccine um. But 473 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: because Salk had kind of beaten him to the punch 474 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: in America, Sabine was was forced to kind of go 475 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: outside of the United States to test his his vaccine, 476 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: and he ended up testing his in the USSR, I believe, yeah, 477 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: And like you said, his was attenuated, so it was 478 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: live and it was actually a really infectious strain. But 479 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: something about this strain, it just seemed to not go 480 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: to that central nervous system and infect the central nervous 481 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: system nearly as much. So Uh. He went to the 482 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: Soviet Union, tested more than ten million people there in 483 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties and they said whatever Russian is for, 484 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: thumbs up, way to go, great job, great ski uh. 485 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: And it was widely used and came into the US 486 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties. So then all of a sudden, 487 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: we have two vaccines. We got the IPv that you 488 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: have to inject um. At first that they thought it 489 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: was had to be boosted every few years, but it 490 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: was in fact forever injection the best kind right Um 491 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: there were. It was very safe, there were no systemic reactions. Um. 492 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,719 Speaker 1: The cost was high, which was kind of a problem 493 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: at the time as opposed to the lower costs of 494 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: the op which was oral. He gave it on sugar cubes. Um. Right. 495 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of advantages with this O p 496 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: V over the I p V. And as a result 497 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: between the advantages, I mean, just lower cost alone would 498 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: make public health officials be like, well, we should go 499 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: with that. But that whole um, the Cutter incident where 500 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: two thousand kids were accidentally given active polio um, that 501 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: that really kind of shook people in Salts vaccine enough 502 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: that his vaccine got supplanted by sabines O p V 503 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: Laural polio virus vaccine UM, and that became the standard 504 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: in the United States from about the early sixties up 505 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: to I guess two thousand, basically, right, yeah, And I 506 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: think we failed to mention there were three types, three 507 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: stereo types type one, Type two, and type three and 508 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: the O p V. You could get all three of 509 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: those types onto that one sugar cube, which is great. 510 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: And if you have uh, if you're infected by one 511 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: of those stereotypes, it doesn't give you anybodies against the 512 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: other two, and a vaccine for one doesn't protect against 513 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: the other two, so you have to get inoculated against 514 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: all three and and sabine Remember he found a strain 515 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: of poliovirus that was very infectious but didn't attack the 516 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: central nervous system very very much. And he actually identified 517 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: strains for each one of those types that kind of 518 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: fell into that category. But the thing is this, Remember 519 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: we said that with an UM with an activated or 520 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: an attenuated live virus, you are actually being given poliovirus 521 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: and you are being infected with polio virus. And so 522 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: that means that you can actually you're shedding poliovirus in 523 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: your feces. So let's say you want to start a 524 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: vaccination campaign in an area that has poor sanitation and 525 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,479 Speaker 1: a lot of resistance to a vaccine campaign. Well, if 526 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: you can just get in there and vaccinate a few people, 527 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: they're going to go and shed that polio virus in 528 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: their feces. And because it's this weakened strain um, that 529 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: weekend strain will go on and infect other people in 530 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: the community who drink this taint of drinking water and 531 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: they will kind of become what's known as passively vaccinated 532 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: by this. So it was another advantage in developing areas 533 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: as well. But there were some major problems with this 534 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: this vaccine and still remain today, mainly because this is 535 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: a live virus that you're being um you're being infected 536 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: with on purpose. Yeah, and because it's live, even though 537 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: it's weak, very and you know, I don't know about 538 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: the word rare, but in very few cases, uh, and 539 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: they think him. You know, deficiency had a lot to 540 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: do with it. You could contract polio, you could get 541 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: the paralysis, and you could possibly die. That was known 542 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: as VAP vaccine associated paralytic polio myelitis. And that's no 543 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: good than that, there are very few cases. That's not 544 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: great for your pr campaign. But not only that, because 545 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: it was a live virus that could still replicate, they 546 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: also found that when it entered your gut and colonized there, 547 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: sometimes it could undergo a type of mutation, so that 548 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: what came out the other end in your feces was 549 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: actually a basically a new version of the strain that 550 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: you had been given. And sometimes it was way more infectious. 551 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes it was way more deadly, and that would be 552 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: what you pooped out into the local water supply. And 553 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: at first, again compared to like the wild strains of 554 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: the three types of polio virus that were out there 555 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: in the world, UM, at first like it didn't matter, 556 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: Like that happened, and frequently enough that that just keep 557 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: going with this oral vaccine because it's really really working. Um. 558 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 1: But as it became more and more effective and fewer 559 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: and fewer people had Polly Oh, the idea that you 560 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: were giving them a vaccine that could actually produce a 561 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: virulent strain became a real problem and as a result, 562 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,240 Speaker 1: people said, well, wait a minute, we need to figure 563 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: out what to do about this vaccine because we really 564 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: need to start figuring out how to phase this out. 565 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: That's right, um. And is this where the Dutch entered 566 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: the picture. I believe so. Yeah. And you might think, 567 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: what do they have to do with it? They were 568 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: studying salks IPv this whole time they were using it. 569 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,399 Speaker 1: They were researching it. They were funded by their own 570 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,879 Speaker 1: government to do so, and they made it more more 571 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 1: robust basically against all three types, which is great. And 572 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: the big thing they did though, is they they found 573 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: out how to reduce the cost, because the cost was 574 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: one of the big drawbacks of sALS version UM and 575 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: one of the big parts of the cost, very sadly 576 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: is is they had to import five thousand rhesus monkeys 577 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: every year uh in the Netherlands alone, five thousand monkeys 578 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: and just the Netherlands. So in the seventies, these two 579 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: people named Paul van Hemmert and Anton van vesel Uh 580 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: they figured out how to grow cultured monkey kidney cells, 581 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: which is a great record title. I think, Oh, I 582 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: think so too. I hadn't thought about that. I don't 583 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: know the band. The band is the Plastic Beads, okay, 584 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: and their new album Cultured Monkey Kidney Cell. So they 585 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: figured out how to grow these on plastic beads and 586 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 1: steel flasks and then grow that polio virus on the 587 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: kidney cells. So all of a sudden, you didn't need 588 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: five thousand esus monkeys. You just needed a few of them, 589 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,320 Speaker 1: and you didn't have to spend eight didn't have to 590 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: kill all these monkeys, which is awesome, And b you 591 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: didn't have to import all those monkeys and that expense 592 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: and that was that saved a ton of money, and 593 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: they could all of a sudden pump out these I 594 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: p V uh I PV shots at a really reduced rate. 595 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: So now, all of a sudden, Salk's original or actually 596 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: new improved version of Salk's original vaccine is competitive to 597 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,919 Speaker 1: the O p V price wise. I think it's still 598 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: way more expensive, but but much less, way more expensive 599 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: than it was before. But then also like it prevents 600 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: polio myelitis from happening, So what public health officials started 601 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: to realize, they By the way, the US started to 602 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: switch back to the Salk vaccine the IPv in two 603 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: thousand and what what public health officials realizes that this 604 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,879 Speaker 1: combination of the two could actually wipe polio out of existence. 605 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: For one, you could prevent polio myhelitis from ever happening 606 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: in your population with the I p V. But then 607 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: also if you could knock out polio in the wild 608 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: with the O p V and and keep the population 609 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: that you're inoculating from developing these UM vaccine associated UM 610 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: virus is right, the mutated viruses that can come out 611 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: the other end, you can actually wipe polio out of 612 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: the wild. And as a matter of fact, one type 613 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: of polio I believe it was type two UM was eradicated. 614 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 1: They figured out sometime around and then I believe in 615 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen they officially declared type to poliovirus eradicated. 616 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 1: It's just gone that that. It's just not in the 617 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,320 Speaker 1: wild anymore UM because it died out because it couldn't 618 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: find a host to transmit and replicate, and we killed it. 619 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: We got rid of it from poop though. That's right, 620 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: like that's literally in the last polio dump happened. Yeah, 621 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: it is kind of crazy because you do, at least 622 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: in the United States, you associate polio with like the 623 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: the early twentieth century, you know. Yeah, so the last 624 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: polio poop came out, didn't hook up with anyone that 625 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: didn't have immunity. And the good news about type two 626 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 1: going away was remember how we were talking about the 627 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:10,359 Speaker 1: VAP the v APP situation with the o p v's confusing, uh, 628 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: Type two was the part most likely to cause that 629 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: vaccine infection, that vaccine derived infection. So with that out 630 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: of the way, you were just left with the o 631 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: p V for types one and three, which is way 632 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 1: more safe and effective. Right. And I saw that type 633 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: three had actually been declared eradicated as well. Um I 634 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: think that it's made some sort of weird comeback in Nigeria, 635 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 1: but that um, I believe it was declared eradicated in 636 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen. I'm not sure if they double back 637 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,760 Speaker 1: on that or not, but either way, there does seem 638 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: to be this idea that we could and we're right 639 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: there um on the cusp of being able to eradicate polio. 640 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: And there's a difference between eradicate and eliminate, eradicate is 641 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: whether zero cases to where the only polio that exists 642 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,839 Speaker 1: as like in a lab or invaccinated form um, eliminated 643 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: where it just doesn't exist on Earth anymore. And for 644 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: all we know, type two polio virus has been eliminated, 645 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 1: but type three, type one right has been are close 646 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 1: to being eradicated. For example, for all types of polio. 647 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: In not not very long ago, there were three hundred 648 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand cases worldwide. Still, so there's still a 649 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 1: lot of polio. In two thousand and seventeen it was 650 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: down to twenty two twenty two worldwide. So we're making 651 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: like great headway, but unfortunately the CIA seems to have 652 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: really gotten in the way and set polio eradication back 653 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: by decades from what I've read. Oh yeah, yes, did 654 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: you see that Scientific American article I sent? I didn't 655 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: get to that tell us about it. So when when 656 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,439 Speaker 1: the the US was hunting for Osama bin Laden, one 657 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: of the ways that they tried to find him was 658 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: through a fake vaccination campaign. And it wasn't for polio, 659 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: it was for hepatitis C. But they basically got a 660 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,360 Speaker 1: public health official to mount a fake vaccination campaign to 661 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: gain entry to the bin laden compound or suspected bin 662 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: ladon compound and basically take DNA samples of the children 663 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 1: there while they were um vaccinating them, and they they 664 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: I guess that they didn't happen. It didn't um, it 665 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: wasn't successful. I don't remember how they found out he 666 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,240 Speaker 1: was in there or not. But the UM, the fact 667 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: that the word got out that this fake vaccination campaign 668 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: had been used as a ruse by the c i 669 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 1: A completely undermined all other vaccination campaigns around the world 670 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,240 Speaker 1: in places that were already wary of the CIA. Because remember, 671 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: polio is endemic in three places Nigeria, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, 672 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: and none of those three places really have a great 673 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: impression of the CIA. So legitimate UM public health vaccination 674 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: campaigns in those countries were totally delegitimized in the eyes 675 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 1: of local population and the local governments. And in fact, 676 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: some vaccination workers were murdered, um and kicked out of 677 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: countries directly because of that that ruse that the CIA 678 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: had undertaken. And from what I read, they say that 679 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: it's set this eradication campaign for polio back literally decades 680 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 1: because it is built around public trust that these scientists 681 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: who are injecting them with stuff, these American scientists are 682 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: are trustworthy. Um. And and that that trust has been 683 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: lost sadly in that nuts that that can have that 684 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: kind of ripple effects like that. And now we're gonna 685 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 1: have to live with polio at least another twenty years 686 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: probably It is said polio said you got anything else? 687 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 1: I got nothing else. Well, let's say for polio everybody 688 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 1: soon that's it for polio. Uh. And since I said that, 689 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: it's time for a listener mail, I think, right, yeah, 690 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:14,240 Speaker 1: I gotta call this. Oh, just correcting us on some stuff, 691 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: how about that? Uh? Sorry, guys in a bit behind. 692 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,359 Speaker 1: So this uh is somewhat old news, but since it 693 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:26,320 Speaker 1: involves the Byzantine Empire, perhaps oldest relative and the stuff 694 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: you should know episode how flamethrowers work, Josh says, in 695 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:35,319 Speaker 1: reference to the Greek fire, something like the Byzantines, who 696 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 1: we know as Turks, we're most notorious for using this stuff. 697 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: I didn't see that he said you said it at 698 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,839 Speaker 1: five thirty one. That sounds made up. That's a made 699 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,800 Speaker 1: up times. The Byzantines were not Turks in the sense 700 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,400 Speaker 1: that white Afrikaners in South Africa are not Zulus. The 701 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 1: Byzantines were Greek speaking colonists from the Roman Empire. The 702 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,800 Speaker 1: capital of the Roman Empire was moved to Byzantium and 703 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:06,400 Speaker 1: three a d. By Constantine the Great Uh and the 704 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:11,280 Speaker 1: strategic port was duly christened and Christianized for a while 705 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 1: at least as Constantinople, as the Byzantines were, much as 706 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,799 Speaker 1: the Afrikaaners were with the Zulus, at odds with the 707 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 1: indigenous Turks for most of their history, until they were 708 00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 1: overthrown by the latter in the mid fifteenth century. The 709 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 1: name Constantinople was changed officially to istanbul And nineteen thirty, 710 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,840 Speaker 1: but had been in use by the non Greek speaking 711 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,279 Speaker 1: natives there for centuries even before the city fell to 712 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: the Turks in fourteen fifty three. Why the heirs of 713 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,760 Speaker 1: the Roman Empire spoke Greek rather than Latin is similar 714 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,840 Speaker 1: to why modern South Africans speak English mostly rather than Afrikaan. 715 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 1: It's probably a couple of whole shows you could do 716 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: about the convoluted colonial histories touched on above, and that 717 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 1: is from Conrad be rub A. Thanks Conrad, I appreciate it. 718 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,319 Speaker 1: I still dispute that I said anything as ridiculous as 719 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,480 Speaker 1: what you say I said, but regardless, I'm glad it 720 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 1: resulted in that top not email. If you want to 721 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 1: be like Conrad and send us a top notch email, 722 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,160 Speaker 1: you can do that. Send it off to Stuff podcast 723 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is 724 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,719 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more 725 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 726 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,920 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.