1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: Quality dais, But Joseph Scotten more Mary Mary quite contrary, 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: how does your garden grow with silver bells and cock 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: shells and pretty mates all in a row? I think 4 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: we probably all recognize that nursery rhyme because that's what 5 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: it is. I mean, kids for ages have used that 6 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: over and over again. I remember that it was many 7 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: many moons ago being in nursery school is what they 8 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: used to call it, and we used all of these. 9 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: I think that teachers and I know nothing about teaching 10 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: small children, but they use these repetitive rhymes in order 11 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: to form language and get into rhythm, if you will. 12 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: But you know, these nursery rhymes have dark origins. I 13 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: think that many of you have heard that with Mary 14 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: Mary like contrary, its origin is said to go back 15 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: to Bloody Mary, who was Queen Mary the First of England, 16 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: and it has to do with her execution of hundreds 17 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: of Protestants over a very dark period in British history. 18 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: And if you didn't know, some scholars believe that silver 19 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: bells and cockle shells are actually references to not things 20 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: that might adorn your garden, but actually they're tied back 21 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: to torture devices. That were used in dungeons back during 22 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: those days. Today, we're going to talk about a case 23 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: that has linkage to Mother goose If you will, seemingly innocent, 24 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: a place where you can go and enjoy your children 25 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: and watch them play Mother goose Land. Actually, but like 26 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: these nursery rhymes, there's a very sinister underlying story here. 27 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. 28 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 2: Joe before we dig into the fairy tale part of this. 29 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: I had no idea that there were little parks all 30 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: over America that had names like Storytime Park or Mother 31 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: Gooseland until I saw the headline in this story. It 32 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: says Mother goose Land Murder. Can't Ohio, There actually was 33 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: a place called Mother goose Land. It's now known as 34 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: Cityfield Park, but it's still identified by those from the 35 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 2: area as Mother Gooseland. And we've got city Field Park 36 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: workers that are dumping trash cans nine thirty in the 37 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 2: morning and they get to a big receptacle and it's 38 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 2: heavier than it should be, and as they look inside, 39 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: it appears to be a human body wrapped in plastic 40 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: has been shoved into the trash can. They immediately call 41 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: nine to one one and the identifier is Mother Gooseland. 42 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: So that's where today's story comes from, the Mother Gooseland murder. 43 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: But you were telling me about places that you knew of, Joe, 44 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: and in particular in New Orleans, where you grew up, 45 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: going to a place that was kind of like this. 46 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: Right in the heart of City Park in New Orleans 47 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: is a location called story Land, and it's been there 48 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: since the fifties. And when you walk through the gate, 49 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: it's you know that scene in Willie wanng Go where 50 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: they the kid the real Willy Wonka. I'm not talking 51 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: about this thing with Johnny. I'm talking about the real 52 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: Willy Wonka with the great late Jeene Wilder, Thank you, 53 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: the late great Gene Wilder, where they opened that door 54 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: and you see all of that candy. I don't know 55 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: about you. That was magical to me. That's the way 56 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: Storyland was when I was little in New Orleans. And 57 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: it's got all of the Mother Goose characters. There. You've 58 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: got old Mother Hubbard, You've got actually Mother Goose in 59 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: the air flying on her goose with children on her 60 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: on the back of the goose, as well, the little 61 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: old man that lived in the little old house, you know, 62 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: the crooked House, and it just goes on and on, 63 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: I mean, and you could walk and run and play 64 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 1: through all of these things. It's a glorified playground. But 65 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: they also have like a little roller coaster. And it's 66 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: not just me. If you talk to any kid that 67 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: was the grew up and I split time growing up 68 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: in New Orleans when I was little. You know, we 69 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: you know, we lived in various locations, and but those 70 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: memories you know that you have when you're a kid. 71 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: I remember going to the streetcar line and New Orleans 72 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: is famous for the street car that runs down Saint 73 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: Charles and being there with my aunt and it was 74 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: the first place I ever put a penny on a 75 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: track and the streetcar would run over it, you know, 76 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: and crush it down. And of course that was adjacent 77 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: to one of another beautiful UH park and zoo called 78 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: Audubon UH the Autumn Zoo, which again, you know, is 79 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: a magical place for me and all of the kids 80 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: you know that inhabit these spaces. But Dave Brother, I 81 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: had to tell you, it's when something that is this 82 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: innocent winds up in the midst of what truly is 83 00:05:54,480 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: a real horror show, you know that that imagery from 84 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: your past. I think that there were probably a lot 85 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: of places around the country that were similar to this, 86 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: because the place we're going to talk about today is 87 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: it has a lot of similarity. It sounds like to 88 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: you know this place that I that's beloved to me 89 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: as you know, as a kid that grew up around it, 90 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, down in New Orleans. Well, can you kind 91 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: of take us through this real quick, because you know, 92 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: I got to tell our friends kind of sit back, 93 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: and this is something that I think shocked both to 94 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: Dave and I when we heard this story. 95 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 2: Now, whenever our stories begin, Joe with somebody calling for 96 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 2: police to do a welfare check. It's a pretty innocuous 97 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 2: thing when you think about it, but in reality, for us, 98 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 2: it's usually a loved one, a friend, an employer that 99 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 2: had an expectation for you to be someplace and you weren't, 100 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 2: and so they pick. 101 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: Up, Hey, let me let me step on you just 102 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: for a second. I apologize. I want everybody to understand this. 103 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: Welfare checks by law enforcement are done minute by minute 104 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: all over the country. This is not something There's not 105 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: something sinister that pops up every time, and so writes 106 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: you our day because with this particular case, there's a 107 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: big reveal here. I got to tell you. 108 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, here's your big reveal. Rachel Sheridan doesn't show up 109 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 2: for work and her mother, knowing the relationship with Sean 110 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: Go and how volatile he can be, her mom. Rachel's 111 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: mom calls the sheriff's department and asks them to do 112 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: a welfare check on her. Deputies show up. They already 113 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: know that Rachel drives a maroon Jeep Liberty, so they're 114 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: looking over the parking lot to see if they see it. 115 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: They don't. 116 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: They go to the. 117 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: Apartment and the door to the apartment is open, not 118 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 2: just unlocked and can turn that. 119 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: We're talking. 120 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 2: The door is open, they can see inside, but deputies 121 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: don't see anything that anything that actually gives them the 122 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 2: right to walk into that apartment right away without a 123 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 2: search warrant. So it's suspicious, so they stayed there. They 124 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: called their boss, Hey, we need a search warrant. Here's why. 125 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: So they're waiting on search warrant to rive so they 126 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 2: can go in the apart and when they see maroon 127 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: jeep Liberty being driven by Sean Go right in front 128 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 2: of him. So hey, let's find out what's going on. 129 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 2: He's driving her car. He has to know where she is, 130 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: so boom, they go ahead and light him up. Well, 131 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: he goes to pull over and Sean go takes off 132 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: and runs. He flees the scene. He flees through the 133 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: woods and everything else, and he gets away from him. 134 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 2: They search for him for hours, can't find him anywhere. Finally, 135 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: the next morning they do find Sean go At a 136 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 2: homeless shelter and they take him into custody on some 137 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: other warrants that he has out standing. Still they haven't 138 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 2: found Rachel Sheridan. They don't know where she is. Then 139 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 2: that's when the nine to one one call comes in 140 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: from Mother Goose Land Park now known as City Field Park, 141 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: and the workers calling with we got a body wrapped 142 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: in plastic in the trash. 143 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: Can this Mother Goose location? This is up in you know, 144 00:08:54,120 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: adjacent to Canton, Ohio, Stark I think it's Stark County location. 145 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: And you know this park that is there, The Mother 146 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: Goose Park has roughly been in operation or was in operation. 147 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: And here's the odd thing. It opened in the fifties. Dave, 148 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: the Singh's been shuddered since the eighties, and you can 149 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: see the pictures of it online and there are all 150 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: these kind of magical looking, magical looking creatures that are 151 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: still existing. There's like a big whale in a lagoon 152 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: with its mouth open that kids could run into. How 153 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: can you resist not wanting to go into this place? 154 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: But when you take a look at it, it's got 155 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: kind of because it's not being used, it's kind of 156 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: got a real creepy vibe to it now because nobody 157 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: is maintaining these things. These things are always brightly painted. 158 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: You know. It's the type of stuff that you want 159 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: to see when you're a little kid. It attracts you 160 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: to it. You want to come in, Hey mama, can 161 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: we go in here and play? You know that sort 162 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: of thing. This is the kind of place that you 163 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: would see though, and it's it's in stark contrast, you know, 164 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: to like what I love about Storyland in New Orleans 165 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: that's really kept up, brightly colored, all those sorts of things. 166 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: And you know, you think about the the deposition of 167 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: a body, it would I think that most people would 168 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: not think that it's a place where a body would 169 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: be found, maybe because it's an abandoned location and it 170 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: has been shuttered since the eighties that it's it's nobody's 171 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: going to find it. And you know, sometimes it's just 172 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: dumb luck where, you know, because how many cases do 173 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: we have where people just like vanish off of the 174 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: planet and you don't have any kind of idea where 175 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: they went to the fact that they were able to 176 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: find her body, I think relatively quickly is amazing and 177 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: there's a bit of I'm not gonna call it joy, 178 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: but there's a bit of relief for the family because 179 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: how many cases have we covered over the years where 180 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: you know, and I still I get contacted all the time, 181 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: particularly over social media, can you help me? You know, 182 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: we haven't seen our and you know, helping people in 183 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: that particular way is not really my forte. But you know, 184 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: there's so many people out there that want to know 185 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: where their loved ones are. But I'm interested in something 186 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: that you said earlier about the welfare check. You know, 187 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: when police typically go and they must really have put 188 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: the screws down on the cops out here, because if 189 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: they're not crossing over that threshold to go into the 190 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: location without a warrant, and it's a welfare check most 191 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: of the time if you can if you know that 192 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: somebody's in danger, as long as you don't if the 193 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: door is open and you're calling out to them to check. 194 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: I guess it's probably departmentally dependent. When it's a it's 195 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: it's health and safety is actually kind of the the 196 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: thread that runs through this. From a legal standpoint, that's 197 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: what they're trying to do. You know, you can't go 198 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: looking in hidden places, and that's that's what the warrant 199 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: would be for. But it's again dumb luck that when 200 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: they pivot and they see her car moving down the 201 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: road and then you got a guy. They chase this 202 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: guy down and he bolts out of the car and 203 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: runs off into the woods. There's your sign. As they 204 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: used to say. You know, one of the questions I 205 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: would ask when I would show up at a scene, 206 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,719 Speaker 1: because you know, when by the time the Emmy or 207 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: corner investigator arrives at a scene, you don't there's so 208 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: many actors on the stage by that time. Commonly, my practice, 209 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: if there was some kind of domestic beef that occurred, 210 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: I would seek out the actual beat unit, like the 211 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: officer that was in the patrol car. The unit that 212 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: patrols this area their beat, and I would go to 213 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,479 Speaker 1: that individual, not to their sergeant, not to their lieutenant 214 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: who was there, is like, hey, can you tell me something. 215 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: Have you ever rolled out here on anything? Have you 216 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: ever been by here, because you'd be surprised. You know, 217 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: when people see cops, you know just kind of and 218 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: I hate this term, but they'll say cops are loitering around. Well, 219 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: they're not loitering. They're sitting there and they're watching. Now 220 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 1: I'm not a big fan of, you know, speed traps, 221 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: but if you're in a neighborhood and you see a cop, 222 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of sitting there. They're watching most 223 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: of the time, and they know they've got their finger 224 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: on the pulse. They know more than people suspect about 225 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,839 Speaker 1: each house on the block because they will have been 226 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: called out to domestic beefs, they will be called out 227 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: when children are missing, they'll be called out for an 228 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: elderly person that has fallen in the house, and they 229 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: know that that and some you know, you go back 230 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: to this idea of you know, one of the things 231 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: they teach is community police and I don't know really 232 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: how well that has worked, but the idea of the 233 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: cop getting out of the car and just walking up 234 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: to a fence and talking to the elderly people that 235 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: live on the street. Hey, how you doing. I'm officer Mike, 236 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: and this is my area. I wanted to introduce myself. 237 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: So cops have a lot of knowledge of that area. 238 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: But you know, Dave, I don't know if they even 239 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: begin to suspect what they would eventually find inside of 240 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: that house, let alone, or what they would find at 241 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: the Mother Goose Park. Here we go, boilerplate statement incoming. 242 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: I found no evidence of forced entry or struggle. Wish 243 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: had a nickel for every time I'd written that down. 244 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: Wish I had a bitcoin for every time i'd written 245 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: that down. I'd be a very very wealthy man. But 246 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: because you know, it's included all of our reports, if 247 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: we don't see anything, but Dave, they they saw something 248 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: at that at that home. Not only was the door open, 249 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: and there's no indication that it was necessarily forced open, 250 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: it was just open. You know, it's not like it 251 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: had been kicked in necessarily. That's an important part, Jeah. 252 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, Because as they arrive, they're doing a I want 253 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: to go back to the welfare check. Yeah, they're already 254 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 2: warned that this is a vow of the situation. Mom 255 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 2: is concerned because she didn't show up for work. She 256 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 2: always does, and she lives with a man who is 257 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 2: not oftentimes doing things in her best interest. They have 258 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 2: had a volatle relationship. He has allegedly beaten her before 259 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 2: enough that family and friends have been worried. And when 260 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 2: they get there and they're looking inside the apartment, they 261 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: don't see anything that jumps right out at them that 262 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 2: says there was a struggle or a fight in here. 263 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 2: And as they're waiting for that search warrant to arrive 264 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 2: so they can go in because at this point they're 265 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 2: not seeing the whole apartment. They're just seeing a living 266 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: area and probably a kitchen, you know. Yeah, And it's 267 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 2: only after they get the search warrant. By the time 268 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 2: they've already got they they know Sean Goh has taken off. 269 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 2: He's running, so what is he He's driving her car 270 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: and he's now running. 271 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: So and she's nowhere to be found. 272 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 2: Right, I still can't find her, still have not been 273 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: able to verify, you know. So they go into the apartment. 274 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 2: Now this is after you know, they get the search warrant, 275 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: and I can't imagine Joe, that the search warrant was 276 00:16:54,960 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 2: very specific, because it would have been we're looking, you 277 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 2: don't know where she is, We're trying to find her. 278 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 2: So would the warrant say they can go in the 279 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: apartment and look under things and see if they can 280 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 2: find share it. 281 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: You know, maybe it's it's going to be more specific. 282 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: And most of the time you have to have some 283 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: kind of probable cause that's going to be an ingredient 284 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: into this. 285 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 2: But the welfare check in and of itself is not enough. 286 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 2: They can't know that it's well unless here's the thing. 287 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: If you if you visualize, let's just say that that 288 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 2: you walk into a scene, I think that a magistrate 289 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 2: or judge would bite on the idea if you see 290 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: what appear to be and remember in forensics, we cannot 291 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,719 Speaker 2: say something is blood until we test it and determine 292 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: that it is blood. But if you see what appears 293 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: to be blood at a scene, and you couple that 294 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 2: with anything that you might find in another location like 295 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 2: broken or turned over furniture, certainly any item that might 296 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 2: have specific evidence on it, I think that a magistrate 297 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 2: would probably be willing to issue that warrant and you 298 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 2: can go in and you know, and you can go 299 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 2: in and process the scene at that point in time, 300 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 2: but yeah, you have to hold back because anything that 301 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 2: you do absent a warrant, you're really running the risk 302 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 2: of that being thrown out from an evidentiary standpoint. And 303 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 2: if that pe and you never know, Dave, what is 304 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 2: actually going to be critical to proving the case or 305 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 2: disproving the case with any type of item. Let's say 306 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 2: that you have some kind of of instrument that might 307 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 2: create a particular pattern. Okay, if you discover that instrument 308 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 2: and you don't expressly have permission to do that, or 309 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 2: the warrant is written inappropriately, or whatever the case might be, 310 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: then did you know that that item can't be included 311 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 2: as part of the evidence. And so you have to 312 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 2: That's why they're very very careful about these things because 313 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 2: for so many years, you know, people would just they 314 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 2: would go in to a scene and you know, with 315 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 2: their hair on fire and not not show up with 316 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 2: the appropriate, appropriate documentation relative to a warrant, and a 317 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 2: lot of stuff winds up being excluded, and if in 318 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 2: fact it is excluded, then that huge building block for 319 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 2: your case is blown at that moment in time, Dave, 320 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 2: all right, And in this case, when they when they 321 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 2: get the search warrant and they go in, they're able 322 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 2: to get past the open the living area where they 323 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 2: didn't see anything. They're able to get into the apartment, 324 00:19:54,920 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: and it's when they get to the bedroom that they realize, Okay, 325 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 2: we got a problem. We have a major problem. I 326 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 2: remember Sean Go Rachel and Rachel Sheridan and Shuan Goh 327 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 2: lived together in this apartment, and he has been arrested 328 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 2: and is at jail on other charges, not to do 329 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 2: with this particular case of Rachel at the time, Remember 330 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 2: he was in her car. And so it's the next 331 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 2: morning he's in jail, and they've gone into the apartment 332 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 2: and they find in the master in the bedroom that 333 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: they share, that something has occurred. They see signs of struggle, 334 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 2: they see signs that point to a bloody fight. Yeah, 335 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 2: in the bedroom. And it's from that point on and 336 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 2: this is my I was curious about this because how 337 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 2: far did they go? We people bleed, a bloody knows 338 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 2: can cause a lot of issues. I'm also clumsy. I 339 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 2: tend to trip and fall, so if something is knocked over, 340 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 2: if there's a little blood, you could explain that. But 341 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: we have a violent man in jail and we can't 342 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 2: find his living girlfriend, and so where do you go 343 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 2: from here? 344 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the blood can be easily explained by any 345 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: defense attorney. We've heard this over and over relative to DNA, 346 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: because if you're domiciled there, it's not unreasonable to expect 347 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: to be able to find blood that has issued force 348 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: from one of the occupants. That's that's also you know, 349 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: domiciled there, so and that can be explained away. Yeah, 350 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: I felt, you know, like you said, I tripped, I 351 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: hit my head, all right, that explains the blood that's there. 352 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: Or yeah, you know, when you're thinking about Rachel, maybe 353 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: Rachel had a bloody nose. I don't know about you. 354 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: I'm prone to bloody noses. You know. I can be 355 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: sitting in church and all of a sudden, I feel 356 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: that warmth, you know, beginning to run down my lip 357 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: and it just spontaneously happened. Well, any attorney worth their 358 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: salt can make that argument, you know, if you find 359 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: But when you have this kind of dynamic event that 360 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: has occurred inside of the dwelling, particularly in the bedroom, 361 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: this very intimate space, and you've got there's a level 362 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: of reasonableness that comes into this. So if you've got 363 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: you don't expect, say, cast off blood from an instrument 364 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: to be on the walls. If you have a bloody nose, okay, 365 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: you don't expect to be to find a mattress that 366 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: is super saturated with blood, or sheets and towels and 367 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: all these sorts of things and you know, maybe soaked 368 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: into carpet or onto the hardwood floor. And the patterns 369 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: themselves showed that this was a dynamic event with movement 370 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: and deposition and all these sorts of things that have 371 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: a certain level of velocity. You know, back to the 372 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: example of a bloody nose, if someone is standing there passively, 373 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: and that's a passive stain where it's just kind of 374 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: free falling through the air and it drops onto the 375 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: ground and it's kind of a classic droplet that you 376 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: would think that drops straight down and there's not much 377 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: dynamicism to it. You can have actually maybe multiple of 378 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: those spots, but you're not going to have it in 379 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: this kind of an elliptical pattern that occurs with a 380 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: little tail on it, you know, where it's cast off 381 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: and those sorts of things. So you have a reasonable 382 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: expectation that you would find blood there. But in an 383 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: environment like this, if you've got multiple locations where blood 384 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: has been shed, this is gonna you know, this is 385 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: going to give rise to this idea that an attack 386 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: probably occurred in this environment. But you know, Daved, the 387 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: thing about it is is that still, even though you 388 00:23:54,320 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: have this evidence that's there, you don't have a body. 389 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 1: And that's a problem in that moment, you don't have 390 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: a body, and that's the rub you know, you think about, 391 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: you know, the absence of in what a chill because 392 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: if you're a police officer, you're still thinking that if 393 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: if there is blood and there's no body, maybe there's 394 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: a chance she's still alive. Maybe there's a chance we 395 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: can find her. And unfortunately, you know, in this case, 396 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: that's that's not necessarily true. 397 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 2: Dave, Wow, Well, you know they're looking for Rachel Sheridan, 398 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 2: her living boyfriend is sitting cooling his heels in jail. 399 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 2: They find blood, a mess in the bedroom and then 400 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 2: they get the sanitation workers at nine point thirty that morning, 401 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 2: they call nine to one one found a body. Now, 402 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 2: they did not do a whole lot to look at 403 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 2: the body. They found a body and stopped, which is incredible. 404 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 2: I don't I wonder when I saw this, I wonder 405 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 2: how many times people have found a body and immediately 406 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 2: started poking around at it versus stopping everything and calling 407 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 2: nine on one. 408 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I've had, I've had. I've had multiple 409 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: scenarios that have occurred. I've actually had civilians that have 410 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: come over. I've actually had civilians UDEs with decomposed bodies 411 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: where and don't ask me what compels them to do this, 412 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: because when you're around a decomposed body, it's most of 413 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: the time it's one of the most important things you 414 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: can you know that you can encounter in life. I've 415 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: had civilians that have encountered bodies like that and they 416 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: they roll the body over, whereas I've had I remember, 417 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 1: in particular, I had an autoerotic case with a gentleman 418 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: that had hung himself on a door on a door 419 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: hinge with a dog cop nude in a microtel if 420 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: you're familiar with those, and the little lady that was 421 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: that was the housekeeper. She came to the door and 422 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: she had just arrived here in the country, I think 423 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: she was from Guatemala, if I'm not mistaken. She couldn't 424 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: speak English. She's pushing her cart up and down the 425 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: hall day and opens this door, and this nude guy 426 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: hanging by dog collar with his hands tied is literally 427 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: staring her in the face and daved. When I got there, 428 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: she the way she had alerted that she had found 429 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,719 Speaker 1: the body was her screaming, and she was sitting this 430 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: poor this poor lady was sitting on the floor clutching 431 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: her rosary with her knees pulled into her chest, doing 432 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: Hail Mary's in Spanish. And she was terrified. So you 433 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: never know what anybody's reaction is going to be, you know, 434 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: when it runs the gamut, you know, just like deaths 435 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: run the gamut. You don't know what your going to find. 436 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: But if you're a sanitation worker, you come across some 437 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: pretty disgusting things, as you can imagine, as there's probably 438 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: stuff that you and I could never fathom. You know 439 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: that those people encounter out there in the streets of 440 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: things that we throw away that they go out and collect. 441 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: And it's interesting how that initial contact might very well 442 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: impact the case or affect the position of the body. 443 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: So that we don't necessarily appreciate it in its pristine condition. 444 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: But I can tell you this, when they finally alerted 445 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: the police in regards to this young woman's body, they 446 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: didn't touch it. They called and what they discovered when 447 00:27:49,720 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: the m e got out there was horrific. Sean Go, 448 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: this person that I would assume, at one point in time, professed, 449 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: you know, professed his love for Rachel Sharon, told her 450 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: that he cared about her, told her he would take 451 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: care of her. And you know, you know who knows, 452 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: you know, with these domestic cases that we catch like this, Dave, 453 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: nobody knows anybody. You never know the level of violence 454 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: that anyone is particularly capable of because you don't know 455 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: what their you know, psychological history is, you don't know 456 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: what their criminal history is. But Dave, I got to 457 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,239 Speaker 1: tell you. With Shaun Go, he he had he had 458 00:28:54,240 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: a reputation as a bad seed, if you will, bad seed. 459 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 2: Now that's a dated comment, you know. 460 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: I also like to use the term good egg every 461 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: now and then too, But just go with me. 462 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 2: She was a bad egg. Another reference to Jane Wilder. 463 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: Yep, there you go, the eggdicator. 464 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 2: So in this particular case with Sean Goh. As we 465 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, as soon as police saw him. As they're 466 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 2: standing outside the apartment trying to find the very beginning 467 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 2: part doing their welfare check on Rachel, they see Sean 468 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 2: in her vehicle and they give chase. He takes off 469 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 2: in bolts. They get him locked up. And this isn't 470 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 2: the first contact that Sean Goh has had with police. 471 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 2: At the time he's arrested, he was wanted on a 472 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 2: number of different issues. He allegedly stole a handgun from 473 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 2: a residence in the North Canton area a couple of 474 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 2: months before Rachel goes missing. He had physically threatened Rachel 475 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: in the past, and friends and family knew about these 476 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 2: threats because he didn't just make a threat and that 477 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 2: was it. He made threats and he actually punctured. The 478 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 2: actual stories is cut holes in her tires. Now that 479 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 2: I'm always picturing a puncture, you know, like with a 480 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 2: knife or a screwdriver or something, but cutting holes in 481 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 2: her tires seems to take it to a different level. 482 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 2: It's a different phrase than I've ever heard, but. 483 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. That means that you're jamming. You're probably 484 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: jamming a sharp instrument in there. And I'm not talking 485 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: about like a piece of rebar. I'm talking about like 486 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: a knife, and you're going, you're you're carving the tires, 487 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: is what it comes down to. 488 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 2: Going into the sidewall. So the tire cannot be repaired. 489 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 2: It will have to be replaced, which is a lot 490 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: more expensive. Ten bucks to patch a tire hole versus 491 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 2: you know, one hundred dollars for a whole tire. 492 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and that's if you get a low 493 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: end tire. Right. And you know, this couple is unmarried, 494 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: they're living in an apartment together. She's driving a cheap liberty. 495 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: She doesn't strike me as somebody that's got a ton 496 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: of money. So when you strike out at her like this, 497 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: it's not just it's not just a violence that's implied. 498 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: It's also it puts a financial burden on her. He 499 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: would have known that because yeah, they yeah, absolutely, And 500 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: you never know what's going to set him off at 501 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: any particular time, what button is going to be pressed. 502 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: And you get somebody that has a history of violence, 503 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: I mean it violence extends for me, when you go 504 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: to someone's home and you actually steal a weapon, that's 505 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: that has that has a flavor of violence to it 506 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: in that environment, even if you don't have physical contact 507 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: or you're not threatening, you know, what's your purpose to 508 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: specifically go to a location and steal a gun and 509 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: then you have this action with the tires. I can understand, Dave, 510 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: I can understand why her mother would have been terrified. 511 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: Can you imagine? I bet there are so many times 512 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: she had probably broken with her and this, this again 513 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: is a thread. I worry about you, darling. Please is 514 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, can you break away from him? And you 515 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: never know what the dynamic is is somebody saying, you know, 516 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: oh I love him, He's going to change all this. 517 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: They never changed, Dave. They don't. It's it's it's the 518 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: same story over and over and over again, and you 519 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: wind up with something that winds up in this horror. 520 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: This horror showed that that's eventually discovered. 521 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 2: Just remember, any guy that will hit a woman once 522 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 2: is not going to stop at once. 523 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: No. 524 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 2: So here we have the sanitation workers called nine one one, 525 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 2: Rachel Sheridan's body. They find her at nine thirty or 526 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 2: that's when they call. So we know we have the day, 527 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: the moment of discovery. But we don't know exactly how 528 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 2: long she has been dead because we don't know other 529 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 2: than the welfare chet call. We know that police recall 530 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 2: the specific time after she didn't show up for work, 531 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 2: but we don't know right now. Can they determined based 532 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 2: on the body they find at nine thirty in the morning, 533 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: can they go back in time and figure out approximate 534 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 2: time of death? 535 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, and I And just to give you a 536 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: little insight, you know, when they first rolled up on 537 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: this case at the home, they the police had shown 538 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: up I think on July second, at about twelve thirty 539 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: two pm, so you're going into the afternoon hours at 540 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: this point in time. They were able to hook him up, 541 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: you know, because he bolted, you know, while they were 542 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: there initially. They actually found him on the third, and 543 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: they got on this pretty quick. I don't know if 544 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: they were able to track him somehow or you know where, 545 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: if they were pinging his phone or what exactly happened 546 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: they got it. 547 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 2: I that was they got him at a homeless shelter, right, 548 00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 2: And I'm. 549 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: Talking about his movement relative to depositing Rachel's body, because 550 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: they actually found her on July the third, so it 551 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: was it was actually less than twenty four hours when 552 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: they finally found her body. Yeah, it would be. She's 553 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: going to be at the outer margins, Dave, as far 554 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: as postmortem changes go, you know where we're looking for 555 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: the rigidity to begin to release. Also, and this is 556 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: in this is in July, Dave, And so it's gonna 557 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: it'll be hotter. And as I've mentioned before, when it 558 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 1: comes to obviously body temp and certainly riger mortis, those 559 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,439 Speaker 1: are going to be slightly accelerated. And when they find her, 560 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: she's actually cocooned and plastic. So he's taken time to 561 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: wrap her body up in plastic and has driven out 562 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: to the Mother goose Land area and found a plastic 563 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: trash can, not unlike you know what we have at 564 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: our homes that we roll out to the street if 565 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: you live in town, and you know, you put by 566 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: the road and the garbage guys come by and pick 567 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: it up, and you know, it was just the sanitation workers, 568 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: you know that looked into the can and saw and 569 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: can you imagine their horror, you know when they lift 570 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: that lid up and they look inside and there's her 571 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: body inside of this of a rubbish container. You know, 572 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: the things that you discard. And I think that says 573 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: a lot here, Dave. It speaks to potentially how he 574 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: viewed her as as refuse, something to be thrown away, 575 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: treated horribly, And there's it's fascinating to me, as horrific 576 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: as this is. As horrific as this is when bodies 577 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: are cocooned like this, for us in forensics, it's actually 578 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: there's an upside to this. The upside is is that 579 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: there's a containment of evidence that takes place. So anything 580 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: that's on the body, you have the opportunity to retain that, 581 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: and not just retain it. Here's the cool part. You 582 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: actually keep it in place on the specific surfaces of 583 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: the body. If it's depended upon how it's secured. So 584 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: let's just say you've got a you've got a bit 585 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 1: of evidence, say a hair or something that's on the shoulder. 586 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 1: If they're cocooned in this wrapping, you can still find 587 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: that hair in place on the shoulder and it might 588 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:50,959 Speaker 1: give you an indication as to where his hands were 589 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: on her or where his head was in relation to 590 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: her body. Did he slough hair, did it fall off 591 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: of his head onto her bloody handprint that may transfer 592 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: to her clothes because you know, you're having to manipulate 593 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 1: dead weight here. If there's been a spillage of blood 594 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: that's so significant, he can get blood on his hands, 595 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: transfer those contact points to her shirt, maybe the cuffs 596 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: of her pants, maybe to her bare legs, Drag her 597 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: onto the sheeting, the plastic sheeting, wrap her up in it. 598 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: The other thing that it protects, because plastic is a 599 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: non poor surface, it protects latent prints, Dave. We've recovered 600 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: latent prints off of plastic sheeting before. And then if 601 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: there's blood involved, that's a different type of print from say, 602 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: for instance, a latent print that's oil. That's the you know, 603 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,760 Speaker 1: generated from the oil in our fingertips. If he touches 604 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: her body with the bare hands and he transfers his 605 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: fingerprint onto that surface and it's the medium is actually blood, 606 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: that's a different type of print that can be recovered. 607 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: So the fact that her body is cocooned, even though 608 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: it's in this filthy, rubbish container, she's kind of protected 609 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: in that sense. But that's not really what turned this case, Dave. 610 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 2: Is it they're able to determine police say that you 611 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 2: know she was attacked in the bedroom and then her 612 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 2: body was drug and placed and the damage, the wounds 613 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 2: were inflicted about her head, yeah, for the most part. 614 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 2: And they said she was beaten with an object. And 615 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 2: they're only willing they being police and the medical examiner. 616 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 2: They're only about to go as far as saying that 617 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 2: she was hit with a hammer at least once. And 618 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 2: I find that to be an odd comment. There was 619 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 2: only of all the battering that was going on, Yeah, 620 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 2: one was obviously a hammer. I mean, they weren't. 621 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: All right, so if and they also believe, if I'm 622 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: not mistaken, that she was probably asleep when this occurred. Sorry, Yeah, 623 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: and no, that's a significant point. So this coward waits 624 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:22,360 Speaker 1: until this diminutive and she is diminutive, Dave, a young 625 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: woman is asleep, and he begins to essentially wail on her. 626 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 1: It's not surprising that they're identifying a single hammer strike here. 627 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: They found a hammer at the scene. But you know, 628 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: this is not something that is well thought out. This 629 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 1: is very frenzied. They were able to delineate that she 630 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: had been struck, that she had ten specific injuries that 631 00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:04,400 Speaker 1: apparently are all blunt force trauma, and this coward could 632 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: have potentially have shown up with a hammer, or he 633 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,320 Speaker 1: could have beaten her in her sleep with his fist, 634 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: striking her all about her head, and then he goes 635 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: and gets a hammer, and she's so she's so wrung out. 636 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:29,800 Speaker 1: I mean, just imagine if you're awakened from a dead sleep, 637 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: and I know you can imagine this, if you have kids, 638 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 1: you can imagine this. You're slumbering, you finally lay your 639 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,239 Speaker 1: head on the pillow, and suddenly there's a scream that 640 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: lets out in the middle of the night in your house. 641 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: You're completely disoriented. How much more so with her if 642 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: she doesn't see this incoming and she's attacked in her 643 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 1: bedroom like this, And I guess the you know, the 644 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: coup de gras is going to be to take a 645 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: hammer and have this single hammer strike. The way they 646 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: were able to delineate this specific injury away from the others, 647 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that the others could not be 648 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 1: hammer strikes, because hammer can be held in any number 649 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: of ways. And this was, by the way, a claw hammer, 650 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,359 Speaker 1: which means it's got a nail extractor on the back 651 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: of it with the two prongs. The very common hammer 652 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: that we see and that most of us own. This 653 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,359 Speaker 1: is actually the blunt and end, the leading edge that 654 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,359 Speaker 1: she's struck with, and hammer strikes are very specific when 655 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: you see them in the morgue. When we're doing these examinations, 656 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: what would happen is her head would be probably completely 657 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: shaved at autopsy because it's impossible to appreciate all of 658 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: the injuries. And so when a body is when you 659 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,920 Speaker 1: have head strikes like this with women in particular, because 660 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:03,280 Speaker 1: women commonly have more hair than guys do, we actually 661 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 1: shaved their heads at autopsy. 662 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 2: I got to ask you something, Joe, and maybe this 663 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 2: seems silly and no, but would you have to ask 664 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 2: the family about that? 665 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: No? No, I've had that question asking me before. This 666 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: is a search. No, we'll tell the funeral director, okay, 667 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 1: and the funeral director generally will. Now we've had families 668 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: that will ask the question, you know, why did you 669 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: do this? And here's the sole reason where it's an 670 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: evidentiary search. You know, you're you're trying to assess the family. 671 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: I think you know as time goes by, because they 672 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: probably can't have an open casket. And there have been 673 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 1: times where we've had these really traumatic events where I've 674 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: seen them get wigs, and funeral homes are good about 675 00:42:54,560 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 1: doing that. Hats. People will put hats on individuals and 676 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: if they're going to have a viewing. But your sole 677 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: purpose here is I'll put it to you this way, knowing, 678 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: and I don't want to put words into this precious 679 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: woman's mother's mouth. But would you rather her head be 680 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:25,320 Speaker 1: shaved and us appropriately assess these insults to her head? 681 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: Or do you want to run the risk of having 682 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: an incomplete assessment? And this guy's back on the streets. 683 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 1: You know, I know which one I'm going to pick, 684 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 1: and because I want I want every I want every 685 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: ounce of retribution that I can get if I'm a 686 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,640 Speaker 1: parent here. And so when we shave the head, and 687 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,439 Speaker 1: sometimes we'll do it selectively, we were very very careful though, 688 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: and the more because and these are hard and this 689 00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,240 Speaker 1: is one of the problems to run into. You'll see 690 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 1: like when you get a hammer strike, you'll actually have 691 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,799 Speaker 1: an abrasion, Okay that you have to pay real close 692 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: attention to to see because it's so ghastly because you'll 693 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: have a laceration. Many times that occurs. So you've got 694 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 1: two things happening that top layer of skin is abraided 695 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,799 Speaker 1: and you'll see the little margins of it because the 696 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 1: skin is rubbed because it's coming in contact with this 697 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,239 Speaker 1: metal object. Then the skin will split. Okay, sometimes on 698 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: the skin you can see the pattern like a it'll 699 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,720 Speaker 1: look like a quarter almost if it's a flush strike. 700 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: Then depended upon the level of force, and I've seen 701 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,799 Speaker 1: this happen. When you get below that layer of the 702 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,360 Speaker 1: scalp and you get onto what's referred to as the 703 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,440 Speaker 1: external table of skull, you'll see a plug of bone 704 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: day that's also shaped like a quarter, and it's depressed, 705 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,520 Speaker 1: which means the bone actually sinks in to a criminal 706 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,760 Speaker 1: vault at that point in time, and you know, impacts 707 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: the brain directly and it'll you know, many times the 708 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 1: bone will fragment and the little shards of bone will 709 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 1: go into the brain. That's incompatible with life. Not to mention, 710 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: you know, just a concussive event of this that leads 711 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: to death. The question is was he striking her with 712 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,120 Speaker 1: a fist beforehand he had the hammer at the ready 713 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,960 Speaker 1: and then used it, or was he holding the hammer 714 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 1: in a way that you couldn't really tell if it 715 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 1: was a hammer strike or not like if it's on 716 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:31,479 Speaker 1: the one of the edges, for instance, I don't see 717 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,799 Speaker 1: that happening, because even if you strike somebody with the 718 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,880 Speaker 1: edge of a hammer, you're gonna have these kind of 719 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: linear marks that occur on the soft tissue either way. 720 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,839 Speaker 1: Either way, they were able to determine that she did 721 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: die as a result of blunt force trauma. And thankfully, 722 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:58,239 Speaker 1: very very thankfully, Sean Go is no longer among the 723 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: land of the free. He's now been convicted and now 724 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:13,720 Speaker 1: he's awaiting sentencing. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Bodybacks.