1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Johnny, I've pulled me over at a dinner recently in London. Ruthie, 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: come and meet my great friend Linda Evangelista. Well, I 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: thought there'd be lots of topics to discuss, what it's 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: like to be in her profession, what it's like to 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: have worked with the world's greatest photographers, and to have 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: done so much work in fashion. But Linda greeted me 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: with so much enthusiasm. Ruthie Rogers the River Cafe. Wow. 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: All she really wanted to do was talk about food, 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: where to eat, what she cooks for her son, how 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: a restaurant kitchen works. Linda's the opposite of cool. She's warm, 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: She's engaging and curious. I realize we're pretty much the same. 12 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: She loves being home, I love being home. She adores 13 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: her son, I adore mine. I'm not a model, she's 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: not a chef. But we shared an immediate intimacy, so 15 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: we thought, let's continue this conversation on table four. And 16 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: here we are today in New York with my newest 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: and loveliest, warmest, most wonderful friend, Linda Evangelista. 18 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 19 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: So it is true that's how we met, You know, 20 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: we met over food. We then saw each other again 21 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: over food, and here we are. I love podcasts, which 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: is really talking about memories and how we cook and 23 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: what we grew up with. So we have heard one 24 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: of the things we love to eat is nyoki, and 25 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: so we have a recipe for you to read, which 26 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: is knochi with slow cooked tomato sauce. You would like 27 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: to read the recipe, and when you read it, you 28 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: can change it, you can question it, you can add 29 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: to it or take away. But that's the recipe that 30 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: was in our most recent cookbook. It's a book for children, 31 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: so it's quite a kind of simplification of how to 32 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: make yaki. But we can talk more about that after 33 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: you read the recipe. 34 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: Okay, this is great to see something in writing, because 35 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: I learned to make yocchi with my grandmother, but it 36 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: was never written down. And it was a little bit 37 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 2: of this and this, many eggs depending how big they are, 38 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: and some potatoes. 39 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and some potatoes. That's how we learned to I mean, 40 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: that's a beautiful way to learn. She did she ever 41 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: write anything down? 42 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 2: She couldn't write. Yeah, she didn't know how to write. 43 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: She didn't know how to write. English. She didn't write all. 44 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: She didn't know how to write it. Also as a peasant. 45 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: She was born in Italy, as was my father and 46 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 2: my mother and all my grandparents. 47 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: And do you speak Italian? 48 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: Very badly? I speak it, and my family speaks dialect. 49 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 2: I know you're friend and proper Italian, but at home 50 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 2: they speak dialect. My parents spoke English to us growing up, 51 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 2: and only when they were arguing did they speak to 52 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: each other in Italian. So I can tell you where 53 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 2: to go in Italian, but I can't ask you are 54 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 2: you having a nice day? 55 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: Or kind words? It's been Richard Dad's father had Italian 56 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: parents and he had the same thing that he heard 57 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: Italian spoken again, a very similar story when there was 58 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: an argument, I think, and then when he did learn Italian, 59 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: a lot of it came back because he had kind 60 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: of grown up for it. Right. 61 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 2: So this grandmother, she never did learn him to speak English. 62 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: And in our neighborhood it was quite Polish, some Ukrainians 63 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: and Italians. 64 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: Where was it? 65 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 2: Where was the name Saint Catharine's, Ontario, Canada, across the 66 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: lake from Toronto in Niagara Region, right near the border 67 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: of the United States, And my grandmother went to Italian mass, 68 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: shopped at the Italian store, worked picking fruit on the 69 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: farm with the Italian ladies, so she didn't really need 70 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: to speak English. I remember how excited they all got 71 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: that generation when Canada went metric. I was about ten 72 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 2: years old or so, I approximately, and then they ender stood, oh, 73 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: this is how many grams of meat I'm buying? And 74 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: so they were very happy when that happened. 75 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: When did they leave. The family comes from between Naples 76 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: and Rome. 77 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: Yes, it's a town called Pinatado Interamna, which is near 78 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: Casino and Monte Casino, where the big battle of World 79 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: War two took place. And my father would have come over, 80 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: and he was born in nineteen forty and I think 81 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: he came over nineteen fifty six. And my mother was 82 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 2: born in forty three inch came over in nineteen fifty. 83 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: And the grandmother that you were describing was that your 84 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: mother's mother. 85 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 2: That was my father's mother, but my mother's mother's kind 86 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:44,239 Speaker 2: of the same. 87 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: And they all came, they all eventually, they were all yes. 88 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: And they came with the few belongings that they had. 89 00:04:52,960 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 2: And I have the two handmade hammered copper pop that 90 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 2: my one grandmother came over with and she would make 91 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 2: her Sunday you know, tomato sauce in and I have them. 92 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: They're like there are precious belongings. There's no painting, there's 93 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: no paintings. 94 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: Yes, sauce fam is a memory and it is what 95 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: she cooked with, so bring that with her was part 96 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: of her. Why did they leave? 97 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 2: You know, they left in search of a better life. 98 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: They had lost everything. Well, they didn't have anything much. 99 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 2: They worked their land, so it's not like they had 100 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:42,679 Speaker 2: vocations and they just went in search of a better 101 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 2: life for their children. 102 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: In Canada rather than the United States. 103 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 2: Well, they were heading to the United States, but at 104 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: the time they closed their doors and then they were 105 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: not receiving any more immigrants. And somebody in the United 106 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 2: States found a sponsor for my grandfather in Canada, and 107 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 2: the other one similar story. So, yeah, one grandfather was 108 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 2: a prisoner of war. They were both in the war. 109 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 2: My grandfathers My mom was born during the war forty. 110 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 1: Three and she spoke Italian. 111 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,559 Speaker 2: She speaks proper and dialect. She speaks both. 112 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: When you say dialect, do you mean the dialect of 113 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: that region between Yeah, and. 114 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,799 Speaker 2: It gets even worse because then you know, it takes 115 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 2: on a life of its own in Canada, not quite 116 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: like the way the Americans. They like totally butchered the language. 117 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: And I don't like the way they cut off the 118 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: ends of the words when they say mozzarella. 119 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: When they say mozzarell, I know that's Tony Soprano. Do 120 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: you remember Tony's in watching the Sopranos, they would always call 121 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: it mozzarell. Yeah. Yeahs. And so your mother also, your 122 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: mother had both her mother and her mother in law 123 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: correct with her. Yeah. And did they all cook together? Yeah? 124 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 2: I think early on they did. And you know my 125 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: mother is because she came over quite young, she got 126 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 2: quite americanized, and you know she she you know, she 127 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: has an education and she cooks with recipes she but 128 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 2: she also has all the recipes in her head, like 129 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 2: what she grew up making. 130 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: Who is the best cook of all of them? Do 131 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: you think me? You good? Okay, we're gonna get to that. 132 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: I like your answer. Okay, So do you want to 133 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: read the recipe TOI with Tomato sauce Ganaki? 134 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: I'm joking, okay. Yaki with tomato sauce served six in 135 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 2: my family, three one yeah, okay, two tablespoons of extra 136 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 2: virgin olive oil. Two clothes of garlic finally sliced. I 137 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: would say a little, you can add more? 138 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, good? 139 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 2: Eight hundred grams of ten peeled plum tomatoes. One kilogram 140 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: of white floury potatoes. 141 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: Your grandma will be happy that this is in grams. 142 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: Wouldn't yet she would one hundred and thirty grams of 143 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 2: double zero flour, one large egg, lightly beaten, and ten 144 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: basal leaves interesting. Heat the olive oil in a large 145 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 2: frying pan over a medium heat. Add the garlic and 146 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:30,679 Speaker 2: cook until soft. Add the tomatoes, breaking them up, season well, 147 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: and cook for thirty minutes on low heat. Bring a 148 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 2: large saucepan of salted water to a boil and add 149 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: the potatoes and cook until they are easily pierced with 150 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 2: a fork. Drain and peel when they are cool enough 151 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: to handle. Immediately. Put the potatoes through a food milk 152 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 2: and then sift the flour over them, making a well 153 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: in the center. Add the beaten egg, using your hands, 154 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 2: quickly mixed to form a smooth, soft dough. Do not 155 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: overwork the dough or you will make the nyoki too heavy. 156 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: Divide the dough into four using your hands. Roll the 157 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 2: dough into a sausage and then cut into pieces. Cook 158 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,599 Speaker 2: the yoki until they rise to the surface. Remove the 159 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 2: yaki with a slotted spoon, and then stir into the 160 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 2: tomato sauce. Add the basil, and if you like, grated partamigiano. 161 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: Now we ran our yoki along a fork toge to 162 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: get the ridges. 163 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: You can do that. We sometimes do ridges and sometimes 164 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: we don't. I prefer without, Yeah, you prefer without. We 165 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: were also talking today about yaki. I was talking to 166 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: Joseph Trevelli, one of my chefs. He was saying, do 167 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: you remember Ruthie, how the cook in our house in 168 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: Italy called Giovanna made yaki and she said to us, 169 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: when you form them, the was like you're doing a book, 170 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: Like you're making a book of the flower and the mixture, 171 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: because if you it is really true that if you 172 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: handle them too much, they do get tough, and so 173 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: you want to touch the flower gets it gets overdeveloped, 174 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: and the idea that you want to make them as 175 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: light and actually I also used to say that what 176 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: we do is we make the potatoes and add a 177 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: little bit of flour and then put one in and 178 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: then they'd fall apart. And then you would add a 179 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: little bit of flour, and you would do it so 180 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: gradually that then you would know that you need that 181 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: amount of flour for them not to fall apart, but 182 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: the least amount makes them as light as you can. 183 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 2: And then once you've done them so many times, you just. 184 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: Know, yeah, and do you do them? 185 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: You know. I have to tell you the one thing 186 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 2: in the kitchen that intimidates me, well, there's two things, 187 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 2: is flower like pizza does and pasta does, and pastry 188 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 2: I don't even I get so intimidated by it, and 189 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 2: I make a mess and I'm never successful with it. 190 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: And we should do it when you come. When you 191 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: come to London next time, we'll go into the cafe 192 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: because you heard her say it, because actually the young 193 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: chef we teach how to make it. And I really 194 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: relate to what you're saying. I'm not a pastry chef person. 195 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: You know. I'm never good with it. I can do 196 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: the science of cakes, but i'd always the measuring. 197 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 2: The measuring is it has to be so precise, and 198 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: I like to venture off. 199 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: A little bit. 200 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 2: I have to tell you about a recipe of yours 201 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 2: that I tried to venture off with. 202 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: Oh what was that? 203 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: You're olive oil cake with polenta? The polenta cake, I 204 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: tried to do it with olive oil, and then I 205 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 2: tried I tried to do it with a little ricota. 206 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: Yeah that's okay, yeah matter. 207 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 2: And then I would love to get to the olive oil, 208 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 2: almond flour and ricotta. 209 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, we could do that. Pastry chefs really enjoyed cooking 210 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: with olive oil now as opposed to butter. But I 211 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: do think butter is so good and butter and cakes 212 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: so delicious. And there's something about that polenta cake which is, 213 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: you know, there's just polenta, there's almonds, there's butter and 214 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: sugar and you put it all in that. 215 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 2: But yeah, once I've made it a couple of times, 216 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 2: though I want it just you know, change things. But 217 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: this was during the pandemic and I had plenty of 218 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 2: time to you know, like play with it. But it didn't. 219 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: You never made bread though, right If you don't like that, 220 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: I'm not a bread nose. 221 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 2: You can buy beautiful bread from great artisans and bakeries, 222 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 2: and I did with my friend a couple of times. 223 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 2: But I made such a mess in the kitchen, and yeah, 224 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 2: I get it, it just wasn't worth it. What what 225 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 2: what did you do in the pandemic? What did you cook? 226 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: Oh? 227 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 2: I lived in the same house as my brother, but 228 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 2: on different floors in New York. In Canada. I wanted 229 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 2: to be able to go outside, and I'm very immunocompromised. 230 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 2: I have a disease that affects my lungs, and living 231 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 2: in New York you have to you know, in a 232 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 2: tall building. It's difficult. But I wanted to be with 233 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 2: my family. So we did a lot of barbecuing and 234 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 2: smoking and cooked a lot outside. Even made pizzas outside. 235 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: Did make pizzas? Did your brother make the dough? No? 236 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 2: I had a friend come over to re teach me 237 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 2: a dough. But it's like a three day ordeal, and 238 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm not I guess, like really sour dough. 239 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: You know, I did different doughs, but I'm not good 240 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: at dough. 241 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: I don't know what it doesn't have to be. 242 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 2: It baffles me because I'm really good at other things. 243 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: So what do you mostly liked? But what if you 244 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 1: if I come for dinner or lunch, what would you 245 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: What would you want to make. 246 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 2: Depends what I would find out the market. 247 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: Good answer. Yeah. We always say, don't go to the 248 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,719 Speaker 1: market with a shopping list in your head. No that thing. 249 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: Do you remember when I started cooking, I would be 250 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: running all over London trying to find the ingredient, some ingredient, 251 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: and then you realize it's just when I lived in 252 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: Paris for four years. That was one of the lessons 253 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: I took away, which was it we lived over market 254 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: and you go downstairs and then you see what's there 255 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: and then you cook. And that's what we do in 256 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: the River Cafe. You know, we change the menu for 257 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: every meal because we come in like a domestic cook 258 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: and see what's in the fridge, see what's been ordered, 259 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: see what we have, and then we start to cook. 260 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 2: That is the hardest menu to choose from. 261 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: Oh really wait, it's not a very long menu. 262 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 2: No, but you want everything. It's like really difficult to 263 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 2: choose from that menu. 264 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: I love being there that night. I love we were 265 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: at separate tables, which Johnny just said that was annoying. 266 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: It was just to see your enthusiasm and your happiness 267 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: for being there. Do go out to restaurants a lot, 268 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: I do, I do. What do you look for in 269 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: a restaurant? 270 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: It can't I don't want like inferior food. If I'm 271 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 2: going to eat pasta, that's like an indulgence for me. 272 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: It has to be because it's cars well, because I. 273 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 2: Just try and watch my weight and healthy and I 274 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: always have. But if I'm going to eat pasta, it 275 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: has to be great pasta. If I'm going to eat 276 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 2: a steak, I mean I eat everything. I don't want 277 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 2: to eat a crappy steak. It has to be like 278 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 2: the best steak. Otherwise I'll eat at home, you know. 279 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 2: So I can get disappointed sometimes at certain restaurants. 280 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: Do you go back to the saved on silver? And 281 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: I again, I do. Does the mood of the restaurant 282 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: matter to you? How the waiters are, how the absolutely 283 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: when you walk in, you want to feel welcome and 284 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: taken care of. And yeah, you live downtown. 285 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 2: My place is in Chelsea. 286 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that's a good areas. That good air for 287 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: food you've got, No, it's okay. Shopping art galleries, art galleries, 288 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: art galleries. That's good to have, isn't it. My son 289 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: lived on Nineteenth Street, you know the building by Jean Novelle. 290 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: Its opposite that Frank Carey building. Yeah right there, Yeah, 291 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: that is beautiful. It's around the corner. Yeah. The River 292 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: Cafe is excited to announce the return of our Italian 293 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: Christmas gift boxes, our alternative to the traditional hamper. We 294 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: bring you all of our favorites from the River Cafe, kitchen, 295 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: vineyards and the designers from all over Italy. They're available 296 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: to pre order now on shop the River Cafe dot 297 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: co dot uk. So let's go back to the beginning. 298 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: You grew up with an Italian grandmothers two two, two 299 00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: grandfathers two your parents. What was food like growing up 300 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: in the Evangelista household? 301 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 2: Well, I complained a lot because we always ate homemade 302 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 2: food and I wanted to have TV dinners or frozen 303 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 2: meals or something out of a can. 304 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to close from Cyr's roebook. I was really Oh, 305 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: my clothes were from Cyrus. I didn't think to my mother, 306 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: not that we had money, but why can't we buy 307 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: clothes out of a catalog? 308 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 2: That sounds so my clothes were from CERs and Woolworth. 309 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 2: So yeah, So it was a lot of homemade food 310 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 2: and I appreciate that now, but like growing up, you know, 311 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 2: I wanted the TV dinners with the compartments, you know, 312 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 2: and the little apple pie in the corner. And but yeah, 313 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: my father took us out for dinner every Friday because 314 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 2: my mother worked late. She was where in retail. But 315 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 2: my father let us choose the restaurant. And by restaurant, 316 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: I mean McDonald's or Denny's or the pizzeria or A 317 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 2: and W, you know, fast food. And so that was 318 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 2: a big deal because we were very spoiled with that. 319 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, and fresh. 320 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 2: We had homemade pasta Wednesdays and Sundays. We had roast 321 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 2: beef once a week. We would have steak or barbecue 322 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 2: once a week. My father really spent a lot of money, 323 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 2: I think on food because he didn't have much growing up. 324 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 2: They ate like a chicken or a rabbit once a week. 325 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: This is what until he was sixteen, until came to America. Yeah, 326 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: until he got. 327 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 2: A good job at General Motors. And the food went 328 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 2: on the table family style. 329 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: How many of you were there, you me. 330 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 2: And two brothers, two brothers, and he would serve us 331 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 2: and he would put like this mound on your plate 332 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 2: and you had to eat it all. And for him, 333 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,479 Speaker 2: the most important thing was you weren't hungry, that you 334 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 2: were nourished, that you ate. He also didn't want a 335 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: lot to talk at the table because where he worked 336 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 2: was so noisy, so there wasn't a lot of conversation. 337 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 2: It was sort of like dive into your food and 338 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 2: finish it because you're not leaving the table too. 339 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: Did you dread dinners or did you No? 340 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 2: I didn't dread it. A couple times I did. I 341 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 2: wouldn't eat the liver. 342 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: And what would he do? And you say, you have 343 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: to do it? Would you understand if you really couldn't. 344 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 2: They gave up trying to make me the liver. 345 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: I have a friend who had an amazing posture. She 346 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: would just sit. I once said, you had, you know, 347 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: very new. How is it that you sit so well? 348 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: She said, well, because at the meal at the table, 349 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: my father and mother said we had to always sit straight. 350 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: It was just the thing. And she said, as a result, 351 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: I hated every meal. She said, I just couldn't bear going. 352 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: You know, she had great pasture, but it came from, 353 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: you know, just this feeling of just dreading a family dinner. 354 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: And it's interesting about not having to finish your plate 355 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: when you don't want to. 356 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 2: No, in general, I was like, OK food, Yeah, And 357 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 2: maybe because we had to eat what was put in 358 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 2: front of us, we weren't there weren't cooking different meals 359 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 2: for us, like we all ate the same. And it's 360 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 2: crazy because like today, I love dandelion and I used 361 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 2: to go with my father in the country where no 362 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 2: person or dog had walked. There was lots of farmlands 363 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 2: and we would pick the little baby tender. Yeah, like 364 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: I grew up on broccoli rub. Everybody had a garden 365 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 2: and what they produced in these gardens was unbelievable. Tell 366 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 2: me about everything like tomatoes and cucumbers and peppers and 367 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 2: different like ridico and and then there were the fruit 368 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: trees and then there was like basil, all the earth, 369 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 2: you name it, onions and it was just all there. 370 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: And so you had your own garden full of. 371 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 2: Everybody had the whole backyard was a garden, but shared 372 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 2: what the other one didn't have. And it's not like 373 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 2: we had a swimming pool or we didn't play in 374 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 2: our backyards. We played on the street or parking lot. 375 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: Did they bring the seeds? Do you think for Italy? 376 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: I get the seeds are a whole thing. 377 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: The seeds was like a network and whoever had like 378 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 2: the best tomatoes that year would do the seeds and 379 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 2: hand them out. And it's so funny. Now you see 380 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,239 Speaker 2: all these heirloom tomatoes and I'm like, but those are 381 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 2: the tomatoes I grew up with, Like none of them 382 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 2: were nice little round tomatoes. And then the fruit trees 383 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 2: and my father he had a green thumb and he 384 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 2: would graft. He would do these sensational things like the 385 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 2: apricot tree had plums on it and the red apple 386 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 2: tree had a branch with yellow apples, and he would 387 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 2: graft and it would be it would just be incredible, 388 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 2: and then he would make his gropas. 389 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: So do you think that then he would go work 390 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: at general motives? Do you think that in his real 391 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: passion would have been to have been a farmer or 392 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: to have done this whole day? Absolutely? Yeah. 393 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 2: Well, he grew up. He didn't get an education because 394 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 2: he had to work the land. And I know he 395 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 2: had a donkey and whenever he referred to Italy he 396 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 2: referred to it as the good old days. I think 397 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,959 Speaker 2: that would have been what he would have loved to 398 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 2: have done because he was so good at it. We 399 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 2: also had it was so embarrassing at the time. We 400 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 2: had some chickens and some rabbits, but we didn't live 401 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 2: in zoning that allowed those in the roosters when they 402 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 2: would go off at five height. 403 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: So this was a suburban. It was a suburban suburb 404 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: and you were all This community was Italian, was it? 405 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 1: Everybody had the gardens that you're Polish, and then you 406 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: grew up with this culture, with this food, with these gardens, and. 407 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 2: Then and then you had to pickle it, yeah, or 408 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 2: put it in a jar or cure it for the winter. 409 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 2: So we would make sausages and they would buy the animal. 410 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 2: Don't ask me how it got divided up and who 411 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 2: did what. And then they would make pro chutto and capricolo, 412 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: and we made our own tomato sauce. But they would 413 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 2: have to buy more tomatoes because we would make enough 414 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 2: to get you through the winter. And that would be 415 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 2: like a pasata. And everything got pickled like egg plants. 416 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: And did you have olive oil? 417 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 2: No funny you say that, but they do buy We 418 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: don't have olives in Canada, but they would get somehow 419 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 2: from I don't know which dealer some olives and maybe 420 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 2: make some jars of olives, but they didn't make olive oil. 421 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 2: They bought that. 422 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: It sounds it just is a description of life in 423 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: an Italian hilltown. You know, well it was, It absolutely was. 424 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: It continue it does continue. 425 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 2: We still make the tomato sauce every year. 426 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: When you say we, who would that be? 427 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 2: The whole family. My father took a motor off of 428 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 2: a washing machine for clothing and he rigged it up 429 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 2: to the machine that pureds you know, and separates the 430 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 2: seeds and peels with the passata, so you know, you 431 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: wouldn't have to do it by hands. This thing grows. 432 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 2: That makes a lot of noise, but I don't know 433 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 2: how many bushels we do at it per day, like 434 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: bushels and bushels and bushels of tomatoes. 435 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: They say that now in Italy because everyone is, you know, 436 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: younger generation are leaving these hill towns. They're kind of empty. 437 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: They're they're going. But you can't understand also why younger 438 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: generation of women might not want to peel tomatoes for 439 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: the next season, you know, or to do that through 440 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: the winter. But it is a tradition and it's a 441 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: beautiful tradition of it would be sad it is. 442 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 2: It's one of it's like you come together that day 443 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 2: to do it because it's too much work to do. 444 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 2: You know, you need multiple people doing it because the 445 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 2: tomatoes have to get dropped in boiling water. You know, 446 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 2: they have the jars. The sausage is a lot of 447 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: work too, you know, the casings. That's the one thing 448 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 2: I didn't like, washing the casing. 449 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: I know. Did you see the movie nineteen hundred Pertulucies 450 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: movie and there's a very graphic part of it which 451 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: shows making up the sausages. 452 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 2: I did not. 453 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: It's a great movie. You should see it. It takes place 454 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: in Parma, much more further north. But when you left, 455 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: because you went to work quite at an early age, 456 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: I was eighteen, almost nice, Oh you were What was 457 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: that like, leaving this culture of food? What did you do? 458 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: How did you eat? 459 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 2: I think I ate really simple. I was in New 460 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 2: York for about a month or so, and then they 461 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: shipped me off to Paris, who shipped you off the 462 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 2: agency because I wasn't doing so well in New York. 463 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 2: They said, maybe you'll be more successful At nineteen and 464 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 2: I was first in the Hotel sant Andre DA's art, 465 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,959 Speaker 2: but I got bad bugs there, so I went to 466 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 2: the Hotel La Louisia. 467 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: And my mom Louisiana. 468 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: My mom found out our. 469 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: Hotel, our hotel room in the Louisiana was being used 470 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: during the day. I'm not kidding what ye many once 471 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: came home and they would rent it out during the day. 472 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, So we left the Louisa. 473 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 2: That was an upgrade for me. It was ten dollars 474 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 2: more a night, and my mom had to approve that. 475 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 2: And so I would go to the market on Rula 476 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 2: Boussie and I would like, get it, but get and 477 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 2: a piece of breeze and a piece of fruit, and 478 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 2: that's how I would eat on a budget. 479 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, we moved into the hotel Descend. You remember that 480 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: one that was next door to a big step up. Yeah, 481 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: what year was that, Well, it was in seventy twenty three, 482 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: maybe seventy two. 483 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 2: They're in like eighty forty. 484 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was later, so I'm sure, but I 485 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: remember my sid it was a pretty rough the vestory 486 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: about the hotel we stayed in. Renzo Piano came to 487 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: visit me. Richard and his partner. They were doing the 488 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: Pompany Center. I was sick, so I was in bed. 489 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: Sorenza came up and talked to me until Richard came back. 490 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 1: He was at dinner and we were just talking and 491 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: you know, was sneezing, and then the phone rang and 492 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: it was a concierge and he said, madam, your husband 493 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: is on the way up. And I thought that was 494 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: so cool. At the hotel, they were mourning me because 495 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: they thought that I was in bed with my lover. 496 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 2: That's good. 497 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: I thought that was in a cheap hotel. That was 498 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: a pretty good service if I needed. 499 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 2: It, very good service. 500 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: So I know, we don't want to talk about things 501 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: that everybody else talks about. But you were working as 502 00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: a model. We can recognize that you were doing that 503 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 1: in Paris. And what were the restrictions and food because 504 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: for your professional life, did you have to be in 505 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: the day in the day eat and so you had 506 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 1: a metabolism that crazy crazy. 507 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 2: I think it started to slow down close to thirty. 508 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 2: I started working out like when I was twenty seven 509 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 2: twenty eight, because I was like, oh, I think things 510 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,959 Speaker 2: are a little different. And back then, if you overindulge 511 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 2: for too long. If you cut back on everything for 512 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: three days, you would drop. 513 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: Five pounds, you know. 514 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 2: And now it's very easy to gain five pounds in 515 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 2: a weekend. 516 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: Now being your age now, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, But the 517 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: tyranny of the stories we hear of models having to starve. 518 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: And I went to a show in London even now, 519 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: and we had Edward NFL you know, I love Edwards 520 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: and he spent so much time talking about body image 521 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: and what that means and how fashion has to adapt 522 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: women's sizes rather than women adapt to fashion. 523 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 2: Well, there were years. Maybe that's today, and that's great 524 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 2: because Edward is a crusader and he cares about humanity 525 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:17,239 Speaker 2: and he cares about women, and he has done an 526 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 2: amazing job with diversity. We have to be so grateful 527 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 2: for Edward and the Edwards of this world. But in 528 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 2: the nineties a model had to adapt. 529 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: And adapt to to fit the clothes. Yeah, correct. I 530 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: think it's still now because I went to see a 531 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: show in London and for me, it was kind of 532 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: painful to watch. 533 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 2: I don't want to see that. 534 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: It was really painful. They were so so sid you know, 535 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: and he just thought, what did you do to you know? 536 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: Maybe as you said, a lot of them. Maybe they 537 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: had a huge pape of food by fild up. 538 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 2: Some probably did there, maybe not all. I know that 539 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 2: when I was you know, flying every other day and 540 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 2: working and running around and jet setting and globe trotting, 541 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 2: I had to work on keeping the weight on, keeping 542 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 2: it on, keeping it on. Yeah, And then there became 543 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 2: a period where I had to really watch and I 544 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 2: started doing cleanses all the time. And I loved doing 545 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 2: these cleanses, but I think they were very harmful to me. 546 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: What were they? 547 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: Well, I did the Master Cleanse quite a few times, 548 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 2: but I would do like medicinal cleanses where it's like 549 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 2: a powdered drink, like the rice based like Metagenics. There's 550 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 2: different brands that do them. Or I would go to 551 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 2: Weak Care once or twice a year for a week, 552 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 2: you know, we Care. It's out in the desert near 553 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 2: Palm Springs, Palm Desert, and you just do liquids. It's 554 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 2: mostly you know, waters with lemon and mint and teas 555 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 2: and you get a glass of juice a day and 556 00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 2: then you get a very diluted, watered down vegetable on 557 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 2: a day called a soup. But it's basically a liquid us. 558 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 2: It's a starvation, but it's amazing. Yeah, it's been like 559 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 2: quite the journey. And I will never do the deprivation. 560 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 2: I won't do that again. 561 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: I won't try it again. 562 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 2: No, but there's something to be said for like a 563 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 2: nice twenty four hour fast with celery ches. I mean, 564 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 2: I do still enjoy like doing something like that. I 565 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 2: find it refreshing and you kickstart your head in your 566 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 2: mind into like a new place of like, Okay, I'm 567 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,719 Speaker 2: going to get on this like healthy track, and eating 568 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 2: healthy can be very very delicious. 569 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: Of course. 570 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 2: I just happen to love vegetables. 571 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: Your son. Tell me what you cook for your son, 572 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: and what does he like to eat? 573 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 2: Well, he loves meat and chicken, and he loves protein. 574 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 2: He loves my soups. 575 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: Tell me about your soups. 576 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 2: Like the other day, I made parade and I even 577 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 2: passed it through the sieve to make it super super 578 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 2: smooth mixed vegetable soup. I make lots of minas tons 579 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 2: and I made my first one last week and he went, oh, 580 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 2: it's that season again, and that's good. He's happy if 581 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: I give him crunchy bagat or crunchy sour dough bread 582 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 2: or something to dip in there. Yeah, with some parmesan. 583 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: He's happy as can. He just turned seventeen. 584 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: Apetite. Do you have a place where you can grow it? 585 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 2: No, I don't have a place. I will, I will. 586 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 2: I'm getting there when he's going to go off to 587 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 2: school in two years, and then I'm gonna You know, 588 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 2: does your father still love? 589 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: No, he passed, but you would you know how to 590 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: graft an apricut onto a prune. 591 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 2: Or I mean I've seen him do it, but probably not, 592 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 2: but you could kind of green thumb. And the stuff 593 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,239 Speaker 2: he used to do, like his basil leaves were like 594 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 2: bigger than the size of my hand. I tell you 595 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,479 Speaker 2: the groppa. He made it for years and it was 596 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 2: just awful, and then suddenly it kicked in and he 597 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 2: would make it from pairs from plums, I think, peaches. 598 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 2: And then they would do homemade wine, which all the 599 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 2: Italians do. It's totally illegal, you know, they would make 600 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 2: in their basements. 601 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: And did they go back? Did they go back to Italy? 602 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 3: Yeah? 603 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: I took my father back. He hadn't been there for 604 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 2: forty years when I took him back. I think it 605 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 2: was forty years. I go back every few years, we visit. 606 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: To the town Yea where they came from. 607 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 2: And then we are so grateful and thankful that we 608 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 2: grew up in Canada because it would have been a 609 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 2: completely different life had we, you know, grown up there, 610 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 2: but we appreciate it. 611 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: I'm glad to different out there because I might have 612 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: had you in our lives, and it's it's important to 613 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: have you in them. So, as I started out by saying, 614 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: we often talk about food, and we know that you've 615 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: described it as part of your culture and the garden 616 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: and your parents and your family. And if you had 617 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: a food that would give you comfort that you look 618 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: to when you need comfort, is there one food that 619 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: you might go to now, Linda Evangelista. 620 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 2: Oh, my mom's egg plant part of Mejiona. She made 621 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 2: it for me for Thanksgiving in Canada. It's the first 622 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 2: Monday of October, so it was just home for that. 623 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: It's a different Thanksgiving. 624 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 2: I remember that it is, and we make regular Thanksgiving food, 625 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,240 Speaker 2: all the traditional things. But if you're Italian, the Italian 626 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 2: food makes its way. 627 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 3: Also. 628 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 2: It didn't make any sense, it was not cohesive. But 629 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 2: my stepfather farms with his son, and there were beats 630 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 2: and Swiss chart which are not Thanksgiving foods, but they 631 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 2: were on the table. It was a mishmash. It was 632 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 2: delicious eggplant farm. Jena is good. That's a good comfort food. 633 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 2: I should bring her to London. She sounds great, she 634 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 2: is great. Well, you're great to thank you for coming. 635 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 2: Thank you wonderful, No, thank you, We'll see. I do 636 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 2: mean what I said about the River Cafe. Do I 637 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 2: need to bring an apron or I think we'll. 638 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,720 Speaker 1: Give you one? Yeah, thank you, thank you very much. Beautiful, 639 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: really nice, really nice so far. 640 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 3: I was like, I know, if you like listening to 641 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 3: Ruthie's Table four, would you please make sure to rate 642 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 3: and review the podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, o, 643 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 3: wherever you get your podcasts. 644 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: Thank you. 645 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 2: Ruthie's Table four is produced by Atami Studios for iHeartRadio. 646 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 2: It was hosted by Ruthie Rogers. 647 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,280 Speaker 1: It's produced by William Lensky. 648 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Sad Rogers and Fay Stewart. 649 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: Our production manager is Caitline Paramount. 650 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 2: Special thanks to everyone at the River Cafe.