1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. We wish 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: you well in the upcoming year. We wanted to, as 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 1: we said, take some time off for the week. I'm 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: going on a couple of adventures. I think the rest 5 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: of us are too. In the meantime, One thing we 6 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: can tell you is that this classic episode stands out 7 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: to us because people kept digging up former president James K. 8 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 2: Polk. Leave James K. Polk alone his desiccated corpse. Yeah, 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 2: why did they do this? You might ask, Well, why 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: don't you stay tuned to find out in this classic episode. 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Let's open today's 12 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: show with a tiny bit of trivia. My name is 13 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: Ben and I was actually born in Nashville. 14 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 2: My name is Nola, and I have been to Nashville once, 15 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: but my driver's license expired, so I didn't get to 16 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: go to any of the sweet honky tonks. 17 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: Oh that's a shame, you know. We should go to 18 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: Nashville together. We should take a road trip. It's a 19 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: pretty swell place. You'd like it. 20 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: No, I like the street. I bought a hot dog. 21 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: All my friends went to Robert's Western World which is 22 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: apparently the spot where all of the grizzled Nashville session 23 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: guys just show up at two in the afternoon and 24 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 2: play till three in the morning, just like you do. 25 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: And I really felt like I missed out on something. 26 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: But I'll tell you what I did not miss out 27 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: on a bit. Well, what's that I recently returned from 28 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: a work trip to Los Angeles where I happened upon 29 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: a little place called the Museum of Death. 30 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: Oh, yes, you went. 31 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: I did go. Refused, and I'm not going to talk 32 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: too much about this, but they do not allow photo 33 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: for good reason. It's quite grizzly, quite upsetting. And they 34 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 2: had a whole section with funereal artifacts, embalming tools, and 35 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 2: they had a quite impressive collection of coffins. And I 36 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: only bring this up because today we're talking about digging 37 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: up bodies. That is the base level for my segue, right. 38 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: So, for everybody wondering, Ben, why are you giving us 39 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: personal information about Nashville, Noel, why are you telling us 40 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: about coffinry, It's because those two things do have an 41 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: alarming and we think fascinating connection point here in today's episode, 42 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: if you visit the Tennessee State Capitol in Nashville. You'll 43 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: see President Andrew Johnson, who's got sort of this wind 44 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: swept thing, kind of prefiguring Claire all herbal essences commercials, a. 45 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: Bit of a fabio look, if we're being honest. And 46 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: then you have the other Andrew. That would be Jackson 47 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: sitting astride his trustees steed in rearing back kind of pose, 48 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: looking a little bit windswept himself, but with a little 49 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: bit more of an. 50 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: Edge to him, a little panash. I believe he's tipping 51 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: his hat. Here's the thing, folks. Neither of those presidents 52 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: are actually buried at the Tennessee State Capitol, but those 53 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 1: statues are so prominent that they've become local landmarks. And 54 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: there's another important thing, because it turns out they overshadow 55 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: another president. 56 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: That's right, poor James K. Polk the US is eleventh president, 57 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 2: who along with his wife Sarah, are currently buried on 58 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,119 Speaker 2: those grounds of the Tennessee State Capitol. And a very 59 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: modest compared to the giant sweeping statues, a modest structure 60 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: that is kind of flanked by these columns, and it 61 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: was actually designed by the same architect that designed the 62 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: US state capitol in kind of a Greek style. 63 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: And as we record today's episode, turns out that Sarah 64 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: and James may not be located there much longer. You see, 65 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: there's a movement to disinterer or exhuom the Polk couple 66 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: and move them about fifty miles away to their family's 67 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: historic home, which is actually in a town called Columbia. 68 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: Very close to Murfreesboro. If I'm not mistaken, is there 69 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 2: r silent in Murfreesboro. 70 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: I've always I've always kind of been winging it. Yeah, 71 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: we get some we got some great pronunciation emails earlier, 72 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: I believe in the show. So help us out this time, folks, 73 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: Murfreesboro versus murphy Feesborough. Yeah, that is the question. 74 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: But Columbia is in fact a pretty small town near 75 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: Murphysboro that is largely known for its yearly Mule Festival. 76 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of festivals, man, and it's time 77 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: that the mule finally got its due. Yeah. 78 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: I mean it's more than just a little horse, right, 79 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: And I mean. 80 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: Just because it's a relatively small species doesn't mean it's 81 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: not a big deal. Technically, a mule is the offspring 82 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: of a male donkey and a female horse, so it's 83 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: a different species that's interesting. 84 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: Only mentioning this to show that, you know, Columbia charming 85 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 2: place to live, I'm sure. 86 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: But Broadway it's not Broadway. 87 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 2: It is not not a whole lot of tourist attractions 88 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: for this city, and I think there are some that 89 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 2: hope that might change with the movement to move said 90 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,559 Speaker 2: presidents remains right. 91 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: So Polk was born in North Carolina in seventeen ninety five, 92 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: but his family did eventually move to the Tennessee Frontier, 93 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: where his father built a home there in Columbia in 94 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: eighteen sixteen, and because he lived there for several years 95 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: as a ute as an adolescent, the home now serves 96 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: as the James K. Polk Museum. And this happens very 97 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: often here in the United States. I don't know whether 98 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: it's the case in other countries, but in our neck 99 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: of the Global Woods, a famous, historically influential person just 100 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: has to spend time and a location for it to become, 101 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: you know, their ancestral home or their museum. It doesn't 102 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: have to be the place where Mark Twain rag or 103 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: Allan Poe was born necessarily. It could be the home 104 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: where Mark Twain lived or Samuel Clemens lived in I 105 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: think Springfield, Connecticut. You know, he wasn't a kid there. 106 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: That's that's where he lived and lost a bunch of 107 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: money betting on terrible inventions. 108 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: Niche. But let's let's get knock at two ahead of ourselves. 109 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: What was Poke known for? Ben He was only one 110 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: term president, but accomplished a pretty scene amount of stuff, right, he. 111 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: Did some great stuff. I want to open with his nicknames, though, 112 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: because I think they're hilarious. Every president has a bunch 113 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: of nicknames, and just a few of James Knox Polk's 114 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: nicknames would be Napoleon of the Stump and Young Hickory. 115 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 2: And the reason he was Young Hickory was because when 116 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 2: he was Speaker of the House really trumpeted his mentor 117 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: Andrew Jackson's policies, and that informed a lot of what 118 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 2: he would accomplish as president in terms of really pushing 119 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: hard for this manifest destiny idea of expanding the United 120 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: States borders to the Pacific that we will get into 121 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 2: that shortly. That was one of the accomplishments. But Old 122 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: Hickory was Andrew Jackson's nickname, and so that he was 123 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: his boy, Little Hickory, Young Hickory. 124 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was definitely a protege. 125 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: So Polk had actually been a lawyer, and while he 126 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: was in law school, he clerked for the state Senate, 127 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 2: and then in eighteen twenty three he got elected to 128 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: the ten the Seahouse of Representatives and was re elected 129 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: a whopping six times, where he eventually became the Speaker, 130 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 2: and that's when he was able to really champion Andrew 131 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: Jackson's various political positions and got that nickname Young Hickory. 132 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 2: He actually went on to become Tennessee's ninth governor. 133 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: And in eighteen forty four he became President of the 134 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: United States. He was forty nine years old, which sounds, 135 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: you know, like a pretty cool batting average now, but 136 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: at the time he was the youngest candidate ever to 137 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: become president. 138 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 2: So there's a there's a star, gold Star forum. Definitely 139 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 2: young Hickory, totally young Hickory for days. He also re 140 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 2: established the treasury system, which was kind of a precursor 141 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 2: to what we have today under the Federal Reserve. He 142 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: created the Naval Academy, and legislation that he signed actually 143 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: established the creation of the Smithsonian Institution, which is responsible 144 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 2: for preserving artifacts and American culture. 145 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: And it is free to is it. Additionally, let's see 146 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: what's the best way to say this. During his administration, 147 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: the very first US postage stamp was issued, which is 148 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: still a big deal today for philitalists in the crowd. 149 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: Pinnag you just pull that word right off the top 150 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 2: of your dome. 151 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: Sort of, but I didn't make it up. It is 152 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: the fancy word for stamp collectors. Yeeh. 153 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 2: I should have guessed that, but that is a weird 154 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: one for me. 155 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: Voluminous is the fancy word for matchbook collectors. I am 156 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: full of cartoonishly specific words. But we are talking about 157 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: specific and historically significant actions by the eleventh President. 158 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 2: And there's the real big one that we hinted that 159 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 2: earlier with this whole idea of manifest destiny, which was 160 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 2: the notion that the US should basically colonize other places. 161 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 2: And during the Mexican American War, James K. Polk pushed 162 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 2: pretty damn hard to make that happen and had some success, didn't. 163 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: He, Yes, he did. He He was instrumental in expanding 164 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: the territory of the United States by more than eight 165 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: hundred thousand square miles, which means it goes all the way. 166 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: This is where it became a sea to Shining Sea country. 167 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. In eighteen thirty six, Texas, which was at the 168 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: time ruled by Mexico, was given independence and it was 169 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 2: not initially incorporated into the Union. And this became an 170 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 2: issue after that and continuous raids by the Mexican government, 171 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 2: And then in eighteen forty four when Polk was elected, 172 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 2: he pushed really hard to re annex Texas, which is 173 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 2: kind of what set off this conflict. What does that 174 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 2: mean again, Ben. 175 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: This would mean that the territory at hand becomes part 176 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: of the United States property of it. So, for instance, 177 00:10:51,880 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: if the US today were to annex Baja California, or 178 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: if Baja California were to annex California right, then what 179 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 1: that would mean is this territory would become the property 180 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: of the governing state. Annexation is typically not a move 181 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: that everyone agrees with. Right, So if our super producer 182 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: Casey Pegram and you and I are each three state 183 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: actors who are neighbors, and two of us decide to 184 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: split up the other one's property and annexit, it's pretty 185 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: much a declaration. 186 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 2: Of war exactly. And also part of the reason that 187 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 2: there was some issue with making Texas part of the 188 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 2: Union was that lawmakers did not want another slave state. 189 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: And then there were these, you know, occasional raids, border 190 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 2: raids by the Mexican government. But like we said, when 191 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 2: Polk was elected, he threw all that aside and re 192 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: annexation procedures began, and this set off the war, and ultimately, 193 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 2: long story short, we won and we got a whole 194 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 2: bunch of land as a result. And that all happened 195 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 2: under the watch of James K. Polk during his very 196 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 2: short presidency, which was. 197 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: A purposeful presidency. You see. He was a one term 198 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: president by design, that was part of his campaign platform, 199 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: and unlike many, many, many, many, many other state leaders 200 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: or politicians in general, he kept his word and after 201 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: four years in the White House he returned to Tennessee. 202 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 1: We do want to make a note here that the 203 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: Mexican American War, and indeed all wars, are tragic things. 204 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: This was not necessarily a position where there were clear 205 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: cuts good or bad guys in the United States, and many, 206 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: many organizations commanded by the United States did horrific things. 207 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean in the American military vastly outnumbered 208 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: the Mexican forces. It was sort of a you know, 209 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 2: shooting fish in a barrel kind of not an equal 210 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: playing field. 211 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: Now, So what happened after Polk left the presidency. 212 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 2: He died, That's right. 213 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: He did pass away, as people are unfortunately wont to do. 214 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: He died on June fifteenth, eighteen forty nine, so not 215 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: long after he served his term as president, and he 216 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: passed away in Nashville, Tennessee. 217 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: He did. And it's actually super interesting because he passed 218 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 2: away after contracting cholera, and at the time there had 219 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 2: been a massive cholera outbreak in Nashville such that there 220 00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 2: was a city ordinance that required any cholera victim be 221 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 2: buried in the local municipal cemetery. 222 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: Okay, right, so don't even have their bodies around for 223 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: say a family ceremony or something. 224 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 2: And so Polk's first burial place was very specifically tied 225 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: to these conditions that it was just they had to 226 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 2: do it. They put him there with everyone else who 227 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 2: had suffered from this disease. 228 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: And his after his post presidency of one hundred and 229 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: three days, the shortest of any president. He did not 230 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: die in office. I believe it was. It was about 231 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: a year after, isn't that right, nol where they his 232 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: body was dug up and moved after the first burial. 233 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: That's right. It was dug up and moved to Polk Place, 234 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 2: which sounds like a square on Monopoly. 235 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: Or a place where they would sell poke bowls. Okay, 236 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: here's a pitch. Here's a pitch. Just let me know 237 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: what you think a James K. Polk themed poke bowl restaurant. 238 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 2: See, I I have issue with poke versus polk. And 239 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 2: I know you've made your line in the sand that 240 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: it is poke, and I have said that to people 241 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: who have looked at me askance. So, folks, what do 242 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: you think? We're talking about raw fish in a bowl 243 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 2: with rice and deliciousness? Is it poke or poke? Right? 244 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: In? 245 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 2: What do y'all think? 246 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: Noel, If your problem with this persists, then don't worry. 247 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: I've still got us covered. I've got a backup plan. 248 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: It's a poke bowl place that's Pokemon themed. 249 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: That's easy. Love. You could serve it in a poke. 250 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: Bowl, right and you can collect the bulls love it 251 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: all right? But Polk Place, it turns out is different. 252 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: That is the that is the property where James K. 253 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: Polk was intending to establish his legacy, who wanted to 254 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: be buried there. He wanted kids to grow up there. 255 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: He wanted it to remain the seat of the Polka state. 256 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is the true kind of ancestral home 257 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 2: of the Polk family. After Polk died, his wife Sarah, 258 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 2: continued to live at Polk Place for forty two years 259 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 2: until she died. But here's where the plot thickens and 260 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 2: things start to get really interesting. Polk actually drew up 261 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 2: his will a mirror five months before he passed away, 262 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 2: and in it he used some very specific language. He was, 263 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: after all, a lawyer, that said that his and his 264 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 2: wife's remains should be buried at Polk Place, and that 265 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 2: after he and his wife died, the property should be 266 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 2: held in trust by the state, and that there should 267 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 2: always be a blood relative living there. 268 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: And there were a number of heirs, and they waited, 269 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: they bided their time. 270 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: But not direct heirs, not direct air. I think because 271 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: of a childhood malady. He had the kidney stones really bad. 272 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 2: He had an operation that rendered him sterile. 273 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: Right, he did not have any direct issue, but there 274 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: were a number of airs who, as I were saying, 275 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: bided their time for decades waiting for Sarah Polk to expire, 276 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: and then they filed lawsuits arguing that this will was 277 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: a you know, a burlap sack full of bologney for 278 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: legal purposes. The court ruled in their favor, and the 279 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: court said that the will violated the common law rule 280 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: against perpetuities, things that limit an owner's ability to leave 281 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: property to unborn future generations. 282 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 2: I guess Polk might have been a cracker jack one 283 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,719 Speaker 2: term president, but not that great of a lawyer. 284 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: And who knows, you know, if he were. That's the 285 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: thing about wills, You're not around to defend it in person, right, 286 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: you know. So he very well may have been able 287 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: to defend his position, but unfortunately with everyone who really 288 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: had a stake in that perspective, gone, yeah, you're right, 289 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: he had to just depend on the language as he 290 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: had written it. So Polk Place was sold and torn down, right, 291 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: and today there's a boutique hotel on the property. 292 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 2: Yeah. Apparently, initially they were trying to turn it into 293 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 2: the governor's mansion there in Nashville, but that did not pass. 294 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 2: Muster and then they it was scooped up by a developer. 295 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: I think it was an apartment for a while, and 296 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: then it was it's the Boutique hotel today. And that 297 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 2: initial developer, his name was Craig McClanahan. He apparently donated 298 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 2: part of the property to be turned into a Carnegie Library. 299 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 2: And according to Tennessee Magazine, an article written by Bill Carey, 300 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 2: who talks a good bit about this debacle moving Polk's remains, 301 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 2: he says all of this was done just to appease 302 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 2: Nashville residents who might have been irritated that this fat 303 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 2: cat developer swooped in and you know, crushed their their history. 304 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: Which unfortunately is a tale as old as American time. 305 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: If we're ticking on the capitalist clock, developers come in 306 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: and change things, and it's tough to decide what should 307 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: be kept historic and what becomes ephemeral and what has 308 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: a strip mall or a mixed use development in the future. 309 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 2: We're in an interesting spot where we sit here now, 310 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 2: Ben We're in a place called Ponce City Market. That 311 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 2: is a historic building. It used to be a city 312 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 2: hall before that in the what forties, I want to 313 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 2: say it was in Sears and Roebucks Shipping and Receiving 314 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 2: center by the train right by the train line what 315 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 2: they call the belt line now and to this day, 316 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: it's basically kind of a bougie mall. And we have 317 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 2: our studios here, which we love. It's a neat spot, 318 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 2: but it has that interesting give and take between history 319 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 2: preserving history and progress and bougie malls. 320 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: And here's a great example, listeners, you may find this interesting. 321 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: Even before there were buildings here, this road is named 322 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: Ponce de Leon. This building is named Ponce City Market 323 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: because it's on a road called Ponce de Leon, which 324 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: is relatively famous here in the US. It's named that 325 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: because people used to drive outside of the city proper 326 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: when it was a dirt road to find the curative 327 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: springs that were said to be panaceas for what all 328 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: ails you. And they named this street Ponce de Leon 329 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: as just a blatant marketing thing to have it associated 330 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: with a fountain of youth, famously searched for by Ponce 331 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: de Leon himself. 332 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 2: Totally. And now when you drink from the water fountains 333 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 2: at Ponce City Market, you are granted eternal life. 334 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: True story, right right, Well, you're on the eternal life plan, 335 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: which I believe is starts at ten dollars a. 336 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 2: Month and an eternal life coach. 337 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: That's a good one too. Seriously, though, the water does 338 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: come from those same springs. That's why there's that big 339 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: sister a reservoir, yeah, exactly, or reservoir. So back to Polk. 340 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: On September nineteenth, eighteen ninety three, James K. Polk's body 341 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: was moved again. This time it was moved to the 342 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: Capitol where our story began with the statues of Jackson 343 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: and Johnson, and he was buried alongside of his wife. 344 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 2: And we talked a little bit earlier about how there's 345 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 2: a little bit of a kerfuffle about this potential choice 346 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 2: to move them. 347 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: To It's a huge coach. 348 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I'm probably downplaying a little bit. And 349 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 2: a lot of that has to do with the idea 350 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 2: that the folks in Columbia are just pushing for this 351 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 2: because it would be a tourist destination. Because we talked 352 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 2: earlier about how at the Tennessee State Capitol, Polk's grave 353 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 2: is largely dwarfed by these, you know, really ostentatious sculptures 354 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: of potentially more well known presidents Andrew Jackson and Andrew 355 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 2: Johnson not necessarily more important, not necessarily more important at all. 356 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 2: And again, the whole connection is interesting. How Jackson was 357 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 2: old Hickory and and Polk was little Hickory. I'm sorry, 358 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 2: it's not little Hickory. It was young Hickory, Youngckory, young Hickory. 359 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 2: And he's dwarfed in in other ways than that. Jack 360 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 2: is buried also in Tennessee at his estate called the Hermitage, 361 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 2: which is a hugely popular tourist destination. And you know, 362 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 2: why wouldn't the folks in Columbia want to get a 363 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 2: little piece of that sweet, sweet tourist action. 364 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. According to Bill Carry, a researcher and writer 365 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: who focuses on this region, the reinterment of President and 366 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: Missus Polk is one of the most disrespectful deeds ever 367 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: committed by the state of Tennessee. 368 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 2: The second one, the second reinterment, right, I'm asking you, 369 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, First one Colera, you know, Colera Graveyard, 370 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 2: second one family homestead. Then when they toured, that's the 371 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 2: gross one, and then the reet to the capitol. 372 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: And so we're seeing, Yeah, that's a great distinction because 373 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: we are seeing collectively this this grab for money. It 374 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: seems as if you know, as as Noel said earlier 375 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: that to the opponents of the Columbia move from the 376 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: Capitol to Columbia, this seems as though it is little 377 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: more than a blatant grab for authenticity and tourism dollars. Right, 378 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: Or we're not particularly honoring the wishes of this former 379 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: president because the former president wanted to be interred in 380 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: a place that has been torn down. Right, we're not 381 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: necessarily honoring the wishes of the man himself the woman 382 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 1: herself because they wanted to be interred at Pole Place, 383 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: which was torn down for development purposes. This move, this 384 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,719 Speaker 1: idea of moving from the Capitol to Colombia, has no 385 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: small amount of critics, including Bill Carey, but also Carol 386 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: Van West, who is the state historian there of Nashville. 387 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: She said, when Polk left the White House, he came 388 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: home to Nashville, his wife stayed there for decades afterwards. 389 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: There's no reason to move them, essentially. 390 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 2: Except there's an argument on the other side too, right, 391 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 2: because you've got this guy Tom Price, who's the curator 392 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 2: of this place we're talking about now, the James K. 393 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 2: Polk Home and Museum in Columbia, Tennessee, which was the 394 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 2: home that his father built and that he later purchased. 395 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: And you know, mister Price argues that it's not about 396 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 2: tourism dollars, that it's about doing the best job possible 397 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 2: given conditions to honor the language, and that will because 398 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 2: he wanted to be buried at home. This is the 399 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 2: closest thing you got. So it's like the spirit of 400 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 2: the law if we cannot adhere to the letter Rightactlyah, 401 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 2: I don't know. 402 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: What do you think I am on the fence, because 403 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: he does acknowledge that it's difficult to get students to 404 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: tour the home because Andrew Jackson's hermitage is so close. 405 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 2: By, exactly. So they again, in life dwarfed also in death. 406 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 2: And it's interesting because the Tennessee lawmaker, State Senator Joey Hensley, 407 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 2: who sponsored this bill that we're talking about that would 408 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,719 Speaker 2: disinter these remains and move them to this Polk House 409 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 2: in Columbia, is quoted as saying this, I honestly served 410 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 2: up here in the Tennessee State Capitol for fourteen years 411 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 2: and had never seen Polk's grave. He told this to 412 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,959 Speaker 2: the New York Times, it's not handicap accessible. It's not 413 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 2: really talked about much when they do do the Capital tour, 414 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 2: and not many people visit it. It's just not a 415 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 2: very good place to honor his legacy. So all kidding aside, 416 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,239 Speaker 2: I can see both sides, you know. 417 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good point, because if they're not 418 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: including it when they're doing the tour, if it's not 419 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: easy to get to. Usually for anyone who's been on 420 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 1: an historical tour before, what happens is you become inundated 421 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: with information and so you're not Most people are not 422 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: very likely to go above and beyond what the tour 423 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,239 Speaker 1: guide tells them to look at. And this brought us 424 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: to a very interesting question, which is what does it 425 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: take to disinter the corpse of a president if we 426 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: just decided, hey, we're not doing anything with the next 427 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: few years, let's pick up a new hobby. It turns 428 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 1: out it's not too easy. You have to have the 429 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: approval of the governor, the state House of Representatives, a 430 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: local judge from the area, and in the case of Tennessee, 431 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: the volunteer state. You have to have the approval of 432 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: the Tennessee Historical Commission. You have to have a lot 433 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: of a lot of different moving pieces work together. In Unison. 434 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: About a week after the Senate bill passed, the Tennessee 435 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: Historical Commission had come out against the plan to exhume 436 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: James K. Polk and said that moving the graves would 437 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: create a false sense of history at the Home and 438 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: Museum in Columbia. 439 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: Even given all of that red tape you have to 440 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 2: get through to make this happen. And I'm not sure 441 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 2: if this has always been the case in exactly the 442 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 2: way that you laid out, but there are several historical 443 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: precedents for exhuming presidential remains. 444 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: And three times is not even close. 445 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 2: Not even close. Man. In eighteen fifty eight, James Monroe, 446 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 2: who was our fifth president, was exhumed and relocated from 447 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 2: New York to his home state in Virginia. And then 448 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 2: we've got this one that is just an absolute doozy. 449 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 2: How many times, Ben, do you think Abraham Lincoln's body 450 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 2: was moved? 451 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: I know, do you want me to pretend to yes, 452 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. You can just say it, okay, seventeen 453 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: times so far, so far. That's the thing with Abraham Lincoln. 454 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 1: I feel like we have to add so far every 455 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: time we mentioned. 456 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 2: That statistics let the man rest. 457 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: And that is indeed, that is the presidential record for 458 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: the amount of posthumous moves per president. And in the 459 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: case of Lincoln, these all occurred within the balance of Springfield, Illinois. 460 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 2: What is that even about? Yeah, and I found this. 461 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 2: It's on a discussion board Lincoln Assassination Forum, from a 462 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 2: man named Roger Nordon. I can't speak to mister Norton's credentials, 463 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,959 Speaker 2: but he does have an example or a little account 464 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 2: of every single time Lincoln's remains were moved, and one 465 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 2: of them reads as such. November seventh, eighteen seventy six, 466 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 2: in an attempt to kidnap Lincoln's body and hold it 467 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 2: for ransom, Ghoules partially dismantle the sarcophagus and slide Lincoln's 468 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 2: coffin halfway out. The conspiracy is foiled, however, and the 469 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 2: kidnappers escape, leaving Lincoln's body behind. 470 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: Lincoln also in a way that reminds me of our 471 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: earlier episodes involving Winston Churchill. Lincoln also felt that he 472 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: experienced pre cognitive dreams, but he never as far as 473 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: we know. In the historical record. He never said, guys, 474 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: they're gonna move my body seventeen times. But that's a 475 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: weird prediction for people to make at this point. Only 476 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: time will tell if James and Sarah Polk are going 477 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: to be disinterred and reinterred a fourth time. And we 478 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: want to hear your opinion on this. Is it a 479 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: matter of historical accuracy? Is it a matter of disrespect? 480 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: Is it a matter of doing our best? Is the 481 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: living to adhere to the wishes of those who have 482 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: passed totally? 483 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 2: And in this Polk House and museum now a lot 484 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 2: of the furniture from the raised ancestral Polk home is 485 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 2: on display, you know, in sort of like a place 486 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 2: out of time, kind of a pastiche So I'm sure 487 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: it's a fascinating place to go. Do you need to 488 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 2: dig up the guy's bones right and move them? I mean, 489 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 2: this all depends on your view I guess of historical completionism. 490 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 2: I guess I don't know, right, Like, I don't know, 491 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 2: can't they just put up a plaque? It just seems 492 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 2: like an awful big to do. 493 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: Right, And then it also goes into well we could 494 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: argue that it goes into the spiritual beliefs of the 495 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: people when they were alive, you know, because there are 496 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: some people who find it tremendously offensive to be moved around, 497 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: and then there are some people who would say there 498 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: were some people whould say, like Lenin style, just just 499 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: preserve me and keep me on display. 500 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 2: Right, And as it turns out, we have an update 501 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 2: to this story. So the resolution that called for the 502 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 2: movement of President Polk and his wife's remains was passed 503 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 2: by the state Senate in Tennessee in March of twenty seventeen, 504 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 2: but it was put on hold until later this year, 505 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 2: so the state House will not actually vote on it 506 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 2: until sometime this year, when we do not know, as 507 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: the gears of law tend to grind pretty slow. But 508 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 2: we'll keep an eye on this one. 509 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: So will there be an update in the future, Will 510 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,479 Speaker 1: there still be momentum for this legislation or will it 511 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: fall to the wayside. Unfortunately, as so much legislation often does, 512 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: there's only one way to tell. Well, there are several 513 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: ways to tell. They all depend on time, and we 514 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: hope that your favorite way to tell will be tuning 515 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: into another episode of ridiculous history In the meantime, I'd 516 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: like to add this Pulk quotation toward the end of 517 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: our episode here because I think it's an interesting contrast. 518 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: One of his more famous quotations was the following, I cannot, 519 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: whilst President of the United States, descend to enter into 520 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: a newspaper controversy. 521 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 2: Okay, bold words from President James K. Polk. 522 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: Well, he did say while president and not currently president. 523 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 2: That's fair. 524 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: But now it seems that controversy has sprang up in 525 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: his way. 526 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 2: He was really trying to just be super chill under 527 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 2: the radar, especially when he, you know, invaded Mexico. 528 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: He said some other stuff I like too. He said, 529 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: thank God, under our constitution there was no connection between 530 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: church and state. 531 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 2: Oh that's cool. 532 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I had no idea that would turn controversial again, 533 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: did you, President Polk. 534 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 2: And it's funny because he has kind of a pale, 535 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 2: kind of milk toast kind of look to him. 536 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: Something almost puritanical period exactly. 537 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 2: So you know, I could see him wanting to be 538 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 2: uncontroversial and some of the stuff that we're talking about, 539 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 2: especially like the whole you know, Mexican American War and 540 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 2: manifest destiny and all that. You know, we like California, 541 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 2: but not the most popular political stance these days. Right, 542 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 2: let's just go take you know, from beyond our Borders. 543 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,479 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and Noel, what do you think about this 544 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: quotation the world has nothing to fear from military ambition 545 00:32:59,240 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 1: in our government? 546 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 2: How about that one? Either. Let us know what your 547 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 2: favorite James K. Polk quote is and hey, any historical 548 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 2: figure send us quotes. We'll read them on the air. 549 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 2: We'll have a new section in the show called quote Corner. 550 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 2: I'm just spitballing here. You can put corner behind anything 551 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 2: and it can be a segment. But write to us. 552 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 2: We are ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com. You can also 553 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 2: find us on Facebook, Twitter, or we are Ridiculous History 554 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 2: and check us out on iTunes and leave us a 555 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 2: review Apple Podcast rather excuse me. We appreciate it and 556 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 2: that kind of helps discoverability of the show. Go up 557 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 2: or anywhere else you listen to podcast. Just write us 558 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 2: a note if you dig the show. We really appreciate it. 559 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: And perhaps not most importantly, but let's put it in 560 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: the top five. There a James K. Polk themed poke 561 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: bowl place or a Pokemon themed poke bowl place. 562 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 2: Let us know. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 563 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 564 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 2: favorite shows.