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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, bone chilling Brian Coburger.

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Speaker 2: Details emerge.

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Speaker 1: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: Bombshell, a new tell old book reveals a bone chilling

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Speaker 3: theory on Idaho murder suspect Brian Coberger. Author Howard Bloom

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Speaker 3: joins Crime Stories for an exclusive interview.

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Speaker 1: Howard Bloom is joining us right now from Manhattan along

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Speaker 1: with an all star panel to dissect what we know

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Speaker 1: and what we are learning from Howard Bloom, you know

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Speaker 1: I have poured over every document, every search warrant, every return,

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Speaker 1: every witness statement.

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Speaker 2: That I could get my mits on.

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Speaker 1: I have flown to Idaho, to Moscow, Idaho, in the

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Speaker 1: midst of winter and shruws through the snow to look

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Speaker 1: at the scene as best as I could to drive

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Speaker 1: the route I believe, oh yeah, good times freezing, then

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Speaker 1: got in an suv at night in the pitch dark

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Speaker 1: at the time I believe Brian Coberger left that crime

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Speaker 1: scene and started his securitiest route. Oh the word hour's

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Speaker 1: drive to his apartment at nearby Washington State University of Pullman,

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Speaker 1: which should have been about an eight minute drive and

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Speaker 1: somewhere along the way, he turns his cell phone by

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Speaker 1: con that said, after all that, I still learned so

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Speaker 1: much from reading Howard Bloom's book The Name when the

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Speaker 1: Night Comes Falling a Requiem for the Idaho student murders.

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Speaker 2: Wow, even the title made me stop.

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Speaker 1: And in the midst of everything we all do in

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Speaker 1: regular life, working your children, your cat, your dog, your mom,

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Speaker 1: I managed to finish this book in one day. I

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Speaker 1: practically could not put it down. I had it in

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Speaker 1: two forms. I printed out what I had and had

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Speaker 1: it on my iPad so I could look at it

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Speaker 1: no matter where I was. Howard Bloom, it's amazing you

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Speaker 1: had me sitting in the Costco parking lot in the

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Speaker 1: heat reading your book, trying to get to the next

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Speaker 1: chapter before I came back home.

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Speaker 4: Well, I appreciate that. It's very kind. You're sitting in

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Speaker 4: a room as an author, and you wonder if anyone

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Speaker 4: will read what you write. Meant to hear someone talk

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Speaker 4: about it so graciously. I'm very flat of it. So

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Speaker 4: thank you.

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Speaker 1: Well, I've never been accused of being kind before, so

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Speaker 1: I will take that with a box of salt. I

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Speaker 1: want to get right to it. There's so much in

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Speaker 1: your book. I had to take copious notes, so I'll

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Speaker 1: just started at the beginning. It was an amazing intro,

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Speaker 1: and I was struck by the fact that you start

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Speaker 1: your book from Coburger's father's point of view, and what

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Speaker 1: I learned about his father really touched my heart. How

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Speaker 1: he never got to go to college, and he was

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Speaker 1: so proud of Brian Coburger and was already referring to

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Speaker 1: him as doctor Coburger amongst his coworkers. And it reminded

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Speaker 1: me so much, howard of my father, how he didn't

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Speaker 1: get we're first generation college and when I got through

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Speaker 1: law school, in his mind, it was the most amazing

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Speaker 1: thing ever, so proud. Right Now, here's my question with

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Speaker 1: that lead up. Almost at the beginning, his father and

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Speaker 1: his family, Coburger's family suspected him of being the killer.

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Speaker 2: I found that just.

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Speaker 1: I was dumbstruck, because you know, when I read about

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Speaker 1: a crime, I don't immediately think, oh, my son did that.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I've never thought that. Tell me you're thinking,

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Speaker 1: and why you say.

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Speaker 4: That Michael Koberger makes this trip out to see his son,

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Speaker 4: to make the ride back with him. You know, this

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Speaker 4: is a twenty eight year old man and his father

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Speaker 4: is worried about him. He's making this trip, it's fatiguing,

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Speaker 4: it's expensive, but he's worried about his son. He's sitting

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Speaker 4: next to him in this car, shoulder to shoulder. He

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Speaker 4: knows the police are looking for a white hand. And

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Speaker 4: one of the first things he realizes when he meets

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Speaker 4: his son is that his son's mood is volatile. That's

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Speaker 4: his first sign that Brian is in a state. He

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Speaker 4: goes out to meet his son in Washington State, and

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Speaker 4: he doesn't know which Brian and He's going to encounter,

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Speaker 4: but that's his first sign. And he begins to see

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Speaker 4: has the moods change and become deeper and more acerbic.

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Speaker 4: He begins to wonder, oh, my gosh, he begins to

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Speaker 4: think the unthinkable. He begins to consider that his son

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Speaker 4: could in fact be a murderer. And all this is

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Speaker 4: building building in his mind, and he's afraid to go there,

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Speaker 4: as any father would. But he's getting these clues as

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Speaker 4: if he were following footsteps in the snow, and the

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Speaker 4: footsteps are becoming bloodier and bloodier, and he now realizes

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Speaker 4: could this really be true? And then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: they're driving along in Indiana and they see police sirens

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Speaker 4: in the back and the car has to pull over,

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Speaker 4: and he begins to feel what is going to happen next?

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Speaker 1: Well, guys with me, Howard Bloom, who has literally written

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Speaker 1: the book the name of the book, When the Night

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Speaker 1: Comes Falling, a Requiem for the Idaho Student Murder. And

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Speaker 1: I have learned so much more than we the public,

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Speaker 1: have learned, more than my sources have told me, by

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Speaker 1: exhaustive research by Howard Bloom.

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Speaker 2: You're looking right at him, Howard.

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Speaker 1: You stated that these aren't your words, that you discovered

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Speaker 1: this from what Coburger's father stated to other people. What

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Speaker 1: did he state about immediately suspecting here's his son was

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Speaker 1: the killer.

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Speaker 4: He went out to Idaho Washington State at the beginning

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Speaker 4: with suspicions. You have to remember that, Michael, this is

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Speaker 4: not his first trip out there. He even took his

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Speaker 4: son out on the first trip in August when some

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Speaker 4: was just registering for school. He had real concerns about

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Speaker 4: his son. Some was a former heroin attic, his fun

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Speaker 4: son had psychological problems. At the same time, he wanted

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Speaker 4: to believe against gold hope that his son was changing,

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Speaker 4: that his son had reinvented himself. He had come in

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Speaker 4: a mediocre student, and now he was in an excellent

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Speaker 4: graduate program for criminology. And Michael wanted to believe that

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Speaker 4: his son was going to get a PhD. He was

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Speaker 4: going to be my doctor, Brian Coburger, and yet at

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Speaker 4: the same time, in the back of his mind trying,

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Speaker 4: he was thinking the unthinkable. And then things just fall

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Speaker 4: into place. There was a shooting at just blocks from

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Speaker 4: where Brian lived. As they were making this trip across country.

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Speaker 4: A man, a former veteran, went berserk and took hostages

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Speaker 4: in a student housing and a swat team had to

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Speaker 4: come in and they killed him. And Michael Colberger, as

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Speaker 4: he told people who spoke with me, began to feel

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Speaker 4: that there was something just in this part of the

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Speaker 4: world that were evil forces. That's how he put it

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Speaker 4: at work.

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Speaker 2: And his son was you know what.

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Speaker 1: I've read a lot and investigated a lot about the

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Speaker 1: family dynamics of Brian Coburger Listen.

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Speaker 5: Riyan Coberger's family members are concerned about Brian's behavior prior

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Speaker 5: to his arrest. Author Howard Bloom says one of Coberger's

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Speaker 5: sisters confronts their father about the possibility that Brian Coberger

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Speaker 5: is involved in the Moscow murders, but Michael Coberger apparently

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Speaker 5: brushes off their concerns. Bloom says Michael Coberger is on

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Speaker 5: edge when he picks up his son to drive back

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Speaker 5: from Washington to Pennsylvania, claiming the senior Coburger has seen

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Speaker 5: the headlines. He knows four students are killed twelve miles

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Speaker 5: from his son's house, and according to Bloom, Michael Koberger

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Speaker 5: knows what a troubled son he has.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, joining me an all star panel. In

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Speaker 1: addition to this incredible author Howard Bloom, Howard, I noticed

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Speaker 1: that one of the points of contention was about the

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Speaker 1: route when I was driving that route from the King

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Speaker 1: Road murder scene back to his apartment in Pullman. At Pullman,

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Speaker 1: I was wondering why he did that, Why he drove

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Speaker 1: an hour in the middle of the night. And I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you know there's no street lights, it's incres pitched black,

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Speaker 1: and you only ran off the road a couple of

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Speaker 1: times when a semi would come by.

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Speaker 2: But he basically did the same thing with his dad.

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Speaker 1: The dad flies out, does a quick turnaround, he's exhausted,

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Speaker 1: he gets in the launcher with his son, and the

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Speaker 1: sun refuses to go the direct and much shorter route.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that had anything to do with Coburger

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Speaker 1: believing he was being followed or monitored.

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Speaker 4: I think Colberger, being a criminology student, was trying to

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Speaker 4: take precautions at this point. I don't think he had

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Speaker 4: any belief or any knowledge that he was being followed. However,

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Speaker 4: he was trying to be circumspect. He was trying to

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Speaker 4: be one step smarter than the authority.

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Speaker 2: Crime stories.

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Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace, I want to go out to Chris

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Speaker 1: McDonough joining us, the director of the Cold Case Foundation,

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Speaker 1: former homicide detective, host on the Interview Room on YouTube,

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Speaker 1: who like me, like Howard, has seen the evidence, has

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Speaker 1: walked the scene, very familiar with the area. Chris mcdonnaugh,

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Speaker 1: You've had a lot of homicide cases and very often

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Speaker 1: family members know their son is a killer, but they

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Speaker 1: will never admit it. And I'm thinking about Coburger's dad,

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Speaker 1: who knew he had suspicions at the beginning his son

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Speaker 1: was a quadruple killer.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and Nancy, I think what happens is write that

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Speaker 6: parental you know, tendency kicks in a relationship to they

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Speaker 6: want to believe it, but they don't necessarily want to

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Speaker 6: believe it, and so it's kind of a you know,

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Speaker 6: a tug and pull from a parental physician. However, in

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Speaker 6: this particular case, it's obvious dad had his radar was

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Speaker 6: way up and had taken that trip to go out

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Speaker 6: and pick up his son.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, think about it, Chris, and let me

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Speaker 1: throw this to doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us

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Speaker 1: Angela Arnold MD dot com. Have you ever seen parents

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Speaker 1: a tiptoe around their child all the time that they're

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Speaker 1: just waiting for an explosion? And when I was reading

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Speaker 1: the first chapter in Howard's book, When the Night Comes Falling,

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Speaker 1: you could feel the tension of the father in the

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Speaker 1: car with Coburger on this long drive, just waiting for

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Speaker 1: an explosion. But we got to keep in mind the dad,

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Speaker 1: Michael Coburger, has spent his whole life trying to prop

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Speaker 1: up support help Brian Coburger, so he knew it was

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Speaker 1: like walking through a minefield.

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Speaker 2: Anything can make him explode.

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Speaker 1: And when Coburger insisted on this secuitous route, which to

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Speaker 1: hours and hours longer than I direct route. He went, Okay, fine,

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Speaker 1: you're the boss. Those are the words the father used

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Speaker 1: to Coburger.

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Speaker 7: Well, sure, because Nancy, the last thing he was going

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Speaker 7: to do was confront this guy. Because I have to

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Speaker 7: wonder if the father, if the father knew all of this.

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Speaker 7: Was the father a little bit terrified of what could

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Speaker 7: set Brian off? And possibly was the father's life in

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Speaker 7: danger at this point because apparently Brian was agitated at

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Speaker 7: this time. I wonder if the circuitous route had anything

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Speaker 7: to do with some sort of OCD kind of disorder

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Speaker 7: that this guy has.

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Speaker 2: Bloom.

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Speaker 1: You also described Brian Koberger his Heroin habit, how he

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Speaker 1: got into Heroin and when he managed to kick Heroin

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Speaker 1: after his father turned him in for stealing the sister's

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Speaker 1: poae and he had to go into some sort of

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Speaker 1: a rehabit treatment to get his life straight. He kicked

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Speaker 1: Heroin and decided his body was a temple. And that

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Speaker 1: is when he became a vegetarian. And I had wondered

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Speaker 1: where that started, because now he's demanding certain types of

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Speaker 1: meals behind bars and he's getting them. And I remember

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Speaker 1: an anecdote where the family couldn't cook with certain pots

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Speaker 1: and pants because they had once cooked meat.

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Speaker 2: I'm working up to it.

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Speaker 1: You reveal that Coburger had two types of plastic surgery

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Speaker 1: after he loses one hundred pounds.

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Speaker 4: What were they Well, Brian Colberger is intent, and this

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Speaker 4: is the admirable part. He's trying to reinvent himself. He

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Speaker 4: comes out of this depressing, hard scrabble existence, a family

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Speaker 4: with two bankruptcies. He's going to hard scrabble high school.

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Speaker 4: His father is a janitor at the high school. He's

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Speaker 4: sort of embarrassed by that. He becomes a heroin addict,

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Speaker 4: and yet, to his credit, he works himself out of this.

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Speaker 4: He then wants to he's trying to approach girls at

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Speaker 4: high school. They're ignoring him. He loses the weight and

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Speaker 4: he still has this sort of flesh that's going over

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Speaker 4: his midsection, and it's just not the sort of guy

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Speaker 4: he wants to be. He wants to be a player,

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Speaker 4: he wants to be one of the cool guys, and

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Speaker 4: he thinks so he has this surgery. These two surgeries

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Speaker 4: are covered by insurance, and he reinvents himself. He's in

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Speaker 4: good shape, as you can see him in the photographs.

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Speaker 4: He works out he does martial arts, and he still

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Speaker 4: tries to become the man he wants to be.

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Speaker 2: The plastic surgeries.

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Speaker 4: He has these two plastic surgeries to get over his midsection.

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Speaker 4: So there's not this sort of envelope.

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Speaker 1: Powered you're so polite. Okay, you outline it in your book.

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Speaker 1: He had two surgeries, one of them being an abdominoplasty

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Speaker 1: and the other you know what they're long. Let me

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Speaker 1: rephrase list. You described two plastic surgeries that Brian Koberger has.

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Speaker 1: Both of them, I believe were a were related to

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Speaker 1: removing flaps of skin left over from the one hundred

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Speaker 1: plus pound weight loss, a flap of skin and tissue

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Speaker 1: that went down over his private parts and his lower stomach.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to get rid of that, and when he

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Speaker 1: did get rid of that through plastic surgery, he had

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Speaker 1: a serious buff body. Is the way I take it

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Speaker 1: from your book is that what happened.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly what happened. He had this vision that he

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Speaker 4: would become a new Brian Coburger, and the tragedy is

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Speaker 4: he almost succeeded. He gets out to Washington State a

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Speaker 4: new man, and he's trying to live a new life

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Speaker 4: and yet he's pulled back in to what he always is,

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Speaker 4: to his aspens, I believe.

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Speaker 5: Brian Coberger allegedly enters the home and walks past the

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Speaker 5: first rooms he sees coming into the Moscow, Idaho house,

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Speaker 5: and goes straight up a narrow staircase and turns directly

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Speaker 5: into the room of his target, Madison Mogan. Author Howard

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Speaker 5: Bloom says investigators believe Matti Mogan is the target. Inter

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Speaker 5: best friend Kaylegan's office is killed because she's in the

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Speaker 5: room with Mogan.

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Speaker 3: Did Brian Cooberger's parents suspect their son? An explosive new

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Speaker 3: book suggests family knew more than they ever let on

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Speaker 3: about their troubled son. Author Howard Bloom tells us more.

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Speaker 1: Guys joining me is the author Howard Bloom, author of

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Speaker 1: When the Night Comes Falling, a Requiem for the Idaho

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Speaker 1: student murders. Howard Bloom has gone where many have not

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Speaker 1: tediously investigating everything about this case, and the book is

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Speaker 1: full of revelations. We were just describing how Coberger's own

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Speaker 1: family thought at the get go, before he was ever

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Speaker 1: named a suspect or even a POY person of interest,

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Speaker 1: that he committed the quadruple murders. And in this vein,

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Speaker 1: can you imagine Coburger's father so proud of his son

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Speaker 1: getting his PhD, flies out to Washington to drive Coburger.

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Speaker 2: Back home to the Poconos area for.

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Speaker 1: Thanksgiving, and he's sitting there for all these hours in

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Speaker 1: this white Elantra, which of course he knows has been

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Speaker 1: named in the case, and looking over at his son

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Speaker 1: who was acting more and more volatile.

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Speaker 2: But I want to move on to the next point. Listen.

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Speaker 5: In a shocking revelation, author Howard Bloom claims Brian Coberger

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Speaker 5: is not a random spree killer. He had one target

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Speaker 5: in mind the night he allegedly killed four college students

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Speaker 5: in their home off campus in Moscow, Idaho. Bloom says

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Speaker 5: investigators believe in a non targeted attack, the killer would

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Speaker 5: have stopped at the first door inside the house. It

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Speaker 5: would have been instinctive to go into the first rooms

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Speaker 5: after gaining entry, But that isn't what happened. Investigators point

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Speaker 5: to the two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk,

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Speaker 5: as proof Coburger is after a specific target.

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Speaker 1: You know, you really back your theory up with a

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Speaker 1: lot of facts and the way they're laid out, it

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Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. But all along it has been believed,

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Speaker 1: it has been accepted that killing Goldsolves was the target,

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Speaker 1: the original target, and the others were just collateral damage.

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Speaker 2: But you say no, why.

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Speaker 4: Well, at this point, Haley is not even really living

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Speaker 4: in the house. She's living up north with her family.

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Speaker 4: She's going to graduate at the end of the term

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Speaker 4: in December. And Brian really wouldn't have come in contact

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Speaker 4: with her necessarily. But he did go to the Mad

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Speaker 4: Greek restaurant in downtown Moscow, is sort of vegan food

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Speaker 4: which he liked, which he was here to strictly, and

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Speaker 4: Maddie was a waitress there, And my belief is that

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Speaker 4: they encountered one another in the restaurant any words said,

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Speaker 4: did they have a conversation? I don't think that was necessary.

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Speaker 4: You know, both the prosecution and the defense have said

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Speaker 4: for the record that there was no interaction between Brian

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Speaker 4: Coburger and any of the victims. They did not follow

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Speaker 4: any of them on social media to their knowledge, never

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Speaker 4: had any real conversations with them. But Brian was a

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Speaker 4: man whose life was sort of determined by obsessions, determined

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Speaker 4: such as being addicted to heroin, such as losing one

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Speaker 4: hundred pounds, such as deciding to become the best student

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Speaker 4: after being a mediocre student. And I think once he

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Speaker 4: saw Maddie for whatever reasons, I mean, she's an attractive,

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Speaker 4: blonde woman, charming, vivacious, at juliant, he becomes interested in her,

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Speaker 4: and I think his fixation. He would see the parties

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Speaker 4: he would be I believe, on the periphery of events,

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Speaker 4: as parties were hosted at this house on King Road,

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Speaker 4: a party house, and he would look at that and

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Speaker 4: he felt it was in some ways a constant rebuke

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Speaker 4: to the life that he was leading and the life

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Speaker 4: he wanted to live. He could never be a part

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Speaker 4: of that. And he decided, in his rage and I believe,

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Speaker 4: to do something about it. And when he entered the

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Speaker 4: house that night, and he goes in through the kitchen,

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Speaker 4: he passes two bedrooms, the bedroom where Xana is with

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Speaker 4: Ethan and also the bedroom where Villain is. He doesn't stop.

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Speaker 4: He goes up up a flight, which isn't your natural inclination,

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Speaker 4: into Maddie's room and he finds her, but he's surprised

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Speaker 4: to see that Kaylee is there. He had no idea

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Speaker 4: that as she's sleeping over that she's staying for the weekend.

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Speaker 4: She'd come to town to show up her new car.

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Speaker 4: She's just gotten a used range Rover, and she was

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Speaker 4: very proud of it and excited by it, and she

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Speaker 4: wanted to share that with her friends. And he discovers

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Speaker 4: Maddie and then kills her. Cayley fights back, climbs out

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Speaker 4: of the bed that's pressed against the wall, and he

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Speaker 4: kills her, and Cayley is collateral damage when he goes downstairs.

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Speaker 4: The two other victims are collateral damage too.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is a now famous professor of forensics, Joe

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood

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Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon, a star of a hit

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Speaker 1: series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. But for my purposes,

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Speaker 1: and most importantly, he is a quote death investigator who

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Speaker 1: has investigated over one thousand deaths. Joe Scott Morgan, you

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Speaker 1: and I have gone over the evidence, both on air

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Speaker 1: and off, trying to determine who was the target. First

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Speaker 1: of all, doesn't matter who was the target, because they

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Speaker 1: were all for murdered. But the reason we were looking

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Speaker 1: for this needle in a haystack is to determine if

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Speaker 1: we knew the target, we could better figure out who

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Speaker 1: was the perpetrator. Right, So you're hearing what Howard Bloom

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Speaker 1: outlines in his chapter fifteen, and I think this may

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Speaker 1: be dispositive from your point of view. The attacks on

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Speaker 1: Ghost Solvice versus Mattie Mogan, they are very revealing.

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Speaker 8: Explain, They're very revealing because of the level of violence

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Speaker 8: I think that's involved here. You've got these two victims

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Speaker 8: that are contained in that bedroom up there. And I

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Speaker 8: got to tell you, based upon what Howard is saying,

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Speaker 8: the idea that this individual Coberger allegedly knew where to

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Speaker 8: go in this house because as you well know, you

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Speaker 8: stood outside that house, Nancy, it's a very confusing layout.

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Speaker 8: You would have to have specific knowledge of where her

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Speaker 8: room would be at that particular time. Now, the fact

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Speaker 8: that there was another occupant in there, maybe that's the

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Speaker 8: case and he was surprised by that. But it goes

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Speaker 8: to this idea of I would like to try to

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Speaker 8: understand if he had scoped this place out for a

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Speaker 8: particular period of time. Also, this kind of dovetails with

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Speaker 8: what Howard had said as well, that he saw parties

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Speaker 8: going on, and that this is kind of a projection.

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Speaker 8: He understands the life in there. There was a real

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Speaker 8: chilling video that came up, I don't know about a

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Speaker 8: year ago. I don't know if you guys recall this

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Speaker 8: of them the occupants of that house, actually giving internal

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Speaker 8: views of that in a TikTok video. It made my

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Speaker 8: skin crawl as a dad and as a college professor,

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Speaker 8: because the individual that's seeing this can see the layout

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Speaker 8: inside of that, inside of that structure, which I think

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Speaker 8: that we can all agree is kind of peculiar, to

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Speaker 8: say the very least.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you can't have it both ways, Joscott Morgan or

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Speaker 1: you Howard Bloom, do I dare to call you on

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Speaker 1: the carpet after you've literally written the book we can't

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Speaker 1: have He's full of ray age and goes after these

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Speaker 1: girls because he can't have them. He can't have the

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Speaker 1: party life, the popularity, the thing he's been seeking since

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Speaker 1: he lost that one hundred pounds and had those two

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Speaker 1: plastic surgeries.

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Speaker 2: It's not happening for him. You can't have the rage.

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Speaker 1: Plus, I really like the way you laid this out

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Speaker 1: and trying to ah, here we go.

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Speaker 2: Near the beginning of your.

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Speaker 1: Book, you talk about Brian Coberger delving into quote the

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Speaker 1: criminal mind and will be a quote scientist exploring why

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Speaker 1: criminals do what they do. It's been kicked around that

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Speaker 1: his motive, not that the state needs to prove a motive.

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Speaker 2: They don't, but jury's like to hear it.

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Speaker 1: So practically speaking, you better hand one over on a

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Speaker 1: silver platter on top of the Christmas tree.

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Speaker 2: You can't have him.

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Speaker 1: Full of rage and methodically trying to carry out the

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Speaker 1: perfect murder and get away with that very calmly and methodically.

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Speaker 2: So which one is it? What about it? Bloom?

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Speaker 4: He was filled with mania, which is not the same

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Speaker 4: thing as rage, And you're trying to understand make a

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Speaker 4: rational explanation for completely irrational acts. What Brian Coburger tried

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Speaker 4: to do that night is to commit I believe the

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Speaker 4: perfect crime. I believe he wanted to get Maddie, he

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Speaker 4: wanted to kill her, and then once he gets into

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Speaker 4: the house, once he finds another girl there, all his

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Speaker 4: plans fall apart. That's why he leaves the knife sheet behind.

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Speaker 4: He did think things out, as the police well know.

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Speaker 4: There wasn't any blood, a trail of blood left by

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Speaker 4: the perpetrator in the house. All they had was the

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Speaker 4: touch DNA on the knife sheet. There was no trail

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Speaker 4: of blood going up the hill or where a car

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Speaker 4: was parked. To this day, hey, they have not found

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Speaker 4: the murder weapon. To this day, they have not found

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Speaker 4: any clothes covered with blood from that house. And the

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Speaker 4: house was filled with blood. We've all seen the pictures

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Speaker 4: of the rivulets of blood leaking out from the foundation

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Speaker 4: of the house. So he did have some planning. New

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Speaker 4: enough he thought to turn off his phone from two

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Speaker 4: forty seven to four forty eight for those two hours

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Speaker 4: when the murders were taking place, and he was getting say.

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Speaker 1: Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, Howard Bloom, you're the fire hydrant.

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Speaker 1: You're giving me the information faster than I can take

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Speaker 1: it in I can't drink from a fire hydrant. You've

435
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 1: got to give it to me teaspoon by teaspoon. And

436
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 1: I'm telling you this book amazing. But Brian C. Stewart

437
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: joining me, high profile lawyer joining us who practices in

438
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: this jurisdiction as well as in Utah. Brian, I hear

439
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: what Howard is saying. I hear what Joe Scott Morgan

440
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: is saying, and I've got to agree, I empathize, I

441
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: get both the theories. The reality is the state never

442
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: has to prove a motive, but your ours want to

443
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: hear a motive. So do you believe that in this

444
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 1: case Joseic's trial, which it is, despite the defense dragging

445
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: their feet and dragging the judge along with them, he's

446
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: going along with it.

447
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 2: Do you believe the.

448
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: State has to pick a theory as to motive because

449
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: these two were not consistent, or are they rage versus method?

450
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 9: Well, motive can be an important part of the circumstantial

451
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 9: evidence that leads a jury to understand why a perpetrator

452
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 9: commits a crime, But as you said, it's not necessary

453
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 9: to prove that they committed the crime. Here, you know

454
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 9: where Brian Colberger seems like somebody who's studying criminal justice

455
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 9: and perhaps sees himself as the smartest person in the

456
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 9: room or a narcissist.

457
00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 3: His motivation may.

458
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 9: Be to commit the perfect crime, and he would know

459
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 9: that choosing someone in another city who he doesn't have

460
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 9: a relationship with would create a lot of distance between

461
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 9: him and the potential victim.

462
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 8: That's the first thing that police look for.

463
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 9: His relationships in a murder, and he might have chosen

464
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 9: Maddie as someone who's young and blonde and beautiful and

465
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 9: might get him a lot of notoriety as he evades justice.

466
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 9: And so if that's his motivation, that could certainly be

467
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 9: the reason why he chose somebody and doesn't have necessarily

468
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 9: rage for Maddie, but has rage for the system, or mania,

469
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 9: as Harold says, to beat the system.

470
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 3: What happened the Faithful Night of the University of Idaho

471
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 3: for Murderous New Theories revealed in a special episode with

472
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 3: author Howard Bloom.

473
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: And joining us.

474
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: Howard Bloom has meticulously investigated so many facts of the

475
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: case that we didn't know about, including Coburger's past, how

476
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: he lost one hundred pounds and had two different plastic

477
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: surgeries to remove a flap of skin from his stomach

478
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: that went down over his genitals.

479
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: He didn't want that look.

480
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: He lost one hundred pounds on his own, had two

481
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: plastic surgeries to reinvent himself as a modern day Adonis.

482
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: But according to his friends what I'm reading in When

483
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: the Night Comes Falling, his friends didn't like how that

484
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: transformation changed his personality. He became I know it all

485
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: very aggressive, and that was born out at Washington State University.

486
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: He treated his friends in high school that way. After

487
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 2: he got his new look, he.

488
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: Became in his mind the it guy, but somehow he

489
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: couldn't pull it off.

490
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: What if anything, did.

491
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: That have to do with the murders of four beautiful

492
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: University Idaho's students.

493
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: Okay, you know, to this whole.

494
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: Panel, including Howard Bloom joining us, I've got to have

495
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: more than what Joe Scott Morgan is telling me that

496
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: the attack on Kelly was much more savage than the

497
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: attack on Matty Morgan. Why all four of them were

498
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: brutally stabbed dead? I need to know who is my target?

499
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: And in this book Bloom describes a blood trail.

500
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: He also describes the blood literally leaking.

501
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: Down the outside of the house, which I observed when

502
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: I went to Idaho. But that said, let's talk about

503
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: the blood evidence, Howard Bloom, What about the blood evidence

504
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: convinces you to who the real target was?

505
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 4: Well, one point that you've just made about the wounds

506
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 4: on Kayley being so severe, Caylee bought back. She was not.

507
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 4: She was originally in the bed with Maddie. She gets

508
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 4: up from the bed. The room is very narrow. She

509
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 4: tries to get towards the wall, but she's trapped by

510
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 4: Coburger and she's fighting back, and she is not dying easily.

511
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 4: It's a very violent death, and he's enraged that he

512
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 4: even has to. I believe that he had to encounter her.

513
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 4: He did not expect her, and to then find this

514
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 4: woman fighting back like a tiger is putting him in

515
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 4: his mania, is exacerbating the situation. He thought he would

516
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 4: go in there and kill Maddie, who was her presence

517
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 4: rebuked him. I think that's what was going on that

518
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 4: night that house.

519
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: Nancy.

520
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 7: Yeah.

521
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 6: In so there's a couple of things that you know,

522
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 6: from my think thought process in this one is you

523
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 6: know that Evening cobergers he's he's I don't think he's manic, depressive,

524
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 6: or in a manic state in any way, shape or form.

525
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 6: My personal opinion, I think he's very organized. He selected

526
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 6: his target set on purpose. And the reason I feel

527
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 6: that way, there's a couple of things. One is both

528
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 6: Madison and Kayley they're attached at the him from you know,

529
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 6: elementary school they go through, they select the same college.

530
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 6: They have the same kind of birthday parties together. They're

531
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 6: in the exact same house, and that evening, when Coburger

532
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 6: pulls up, if he's our guy, they he's got to

533
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 6: see her car. He's got to know based on the

534
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 6: surveillance that he's been doing, that she potentially could be

535
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 6: there as well. And so'll we have to now ask

536
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 6: our shelves.

537
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 2: Oh wha, No, I disagree.

538
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 1: I disagree because I don't know that Coburger knew about

539
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 1: her new car, Arrange Rover that was new and well,

540
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: I mean it's a used vehicle.

541
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 4: At this point, Kelly is not really living in the house.

542
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 4: She's living at Courd Dealin. She just comes in for

543
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 4: that weekend and he didn't know that. He didn't expect it.

544
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 4: And when he's circling the house, he's I believe he's

545
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 4: not really doing that night three times he comes and goes.

546
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 4: I believe he's not doing surveillance. I believe he's trying

547
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 4: to find the will inside himself to turn off the motor,

548
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 4: to stop the car, to climb down the hill and

549
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 4: commit this crime. Each time he circles the house, it

550
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 4: is not to see what's going on. He doesn't even

551
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 4: really notice the cars, but it's really an internal battle

552
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 4: he's fighting. If he had seen the cars, if you'd

553
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 4: even seen the door Dad delivery, there was a door

554
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 4: Dass delivery at four am, he might have considered it.

555
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: Howard Bloom, you were taking our program down a big path.

556
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: Now I guess you're joining us from Manhattan that you

557
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: have never been down a pig path.

558
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 2: But what a pig path is?

559
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: It is certainly not a direct line or goes in

560
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: any organized manner.

561
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 2: It just goes all over the place.

562
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: But you know what, Howard Bloom, that's the way an

563
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: investigation is. When I would sit around a table talking

564
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: with investigators and witnesses other das one topic leads to

565
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: another topic, leads to another topic, and it's hard to

566
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: marshal your evidence, which you did a great job in

567
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: your book doing.

568
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: But guys, he brought up another thing. He brought up.

569
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: Bloom brought up that coburger circles the house three times.

570
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: And yes, I'm going to get.

571
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: To that store clerk who, in my mind, helped crack

572
00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: this case.

573
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 2: Who you say wants to main anonymous? I don't, Blamer.

574
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: Long story short, how did you confirm, Howard Bloom that

575
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 1: a white Elantra. Our car similar to a white Elantra,

576
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: circled the King wrote address three times leading up to

577
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: the quadruple murder.

578
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 2: How did you confirm that?

579
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 4: Well, part of it is in court documents and the

580
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 4: public affidavits, but I also spoke with the gas station

581
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 4: attendant who gave the surveillance video to the police too,

582
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 4: So a lot of that is public record. What is

583
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 4: not public record, clearly, is what was in the driver's

584
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 4: mind at that time as he was circling. Something you

585
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 4: have to remember, in all the surveillance videos, there's not

586
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 4: one photograph of the license plate of the car. There's

587
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 4: not one photograph of the driver. You can't see who

588
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 4: it is holding the steering wheel. The FBI has tried

589
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 4: everything to try to pully a picture from inside the

590
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 4: car of who was driving that night, and they couldn't.

591
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 4: So Colburger I believe was the man in that in

592
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 4: that honde a Lantra, and he was trying to find

593
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 4: the will to cross over into the man who was

594
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 4: thinking about this horrific crime, to becoming the sort of

595
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 4: man who could commit it. And it was a difficult,

596
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 4: difficult journey he was taking internally that.

597
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 3: Night families of the slain Idaho four victims await justice

598
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 3: as a judge sets a date for trial.

599
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that judge, many argue, is cow telling to

600
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: the defense. When are these families going to get justice?

601
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: That's a whole other can of worms with me. Howard Bloom,

602
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: the author of an incredible new book, When the Night

603
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: Comes Falling, a Requiem for the Idaho Student Murders. Okay,

604
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: all hands on deck to analyze what Howard Blome was

605
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: telling us. Now, Howard Bloom, you crossed over into the

606
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: gas station video, which is later when I believe Coburger.

607
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 2: Is leaving the scene.

608
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: I only to go back to you stating in your

609
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: book that you believe Coburger a white Elantra circles the

610
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: crime scene three times that we know of before the

611
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: murders occur. Now, not the gas station video you are

612
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: telling me that's caught on video?

613
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 2: Is it?

614
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: As you described at the end near the end of

615
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: chapter twenty, a guy who owns a rental complex, I

616
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: think three apartments a rental complex nearby, and he's got

617
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: a camera on top of the rental complex looking down.

618
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 1: Did his video catch the launcher circling three times before

619
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: the murders.

620
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 4: Yes, and in this video too, they still can't make

621
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 4: out a license plate, still can't make out in the

622
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 4: darkness the driver, but they are able to make out

623
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 4: the car. When the FBI in Quantico is trying to

624
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 4: figure out from these videos what kind of car is,

625
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 4: they try three different times until they finally come up

626
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,240
Speaker 4: with a Hondai Elanka from twenty eleven to twenty fifteen.

627
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 4: At first they thought it was just twenty eleven to

628
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 4: twenty thirteen. And that's one of the reasons why Brian

629
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 4: Colberger takes so long to find him, because they were

630
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 4: the authorities in Washington State were really looking for the

631
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 4: wrong car.

632
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace just got Morgan and everybody

633
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: jump in. I'm going to circle back to you, Brian

634
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: Stewart about Mensrea about intent.

635
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 2: Is it even needed?

636
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: Do we need explicit intent or is it implicit by

637
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: the number of the killings that we have murder ones,

638
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: of course we do, But I want to talk to

639
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: you about the legal theory before that, Joe Scott Morgan.

640
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: You hear Howard Bloom describing three times he circled that

641
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 1: we know of, and it's caught.

642
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 2: I believe on the top of that rental facility.

643
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: There's a camera up on the roofs and I looked everywhere.

644
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: When I was out there, Joe Scott Morgan.

645
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: I went very slowly, and it was slippery and icy,

646
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: and I fell more than once. I looked all the

647
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: way up and down the street for surveillance videos.

648
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: It's very narrow. I've told you this story.

649
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: I could sand on one side of the street, look

650
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: into the kitchen window across the street and tell you

651
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: what kind of liquid soap they had sitting on their

652
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: sink at the kitchen window.

653
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: It's that close.

654
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: I did not see the overhead surveillance camera on that rental.

655
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,919
Speaker 2: It's on the roof. It's incredible.

656
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: Now he was talking about the FBI tried everything to

657
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: enhance the tag and the driver.

658
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 2: How what do they do doing ants?

659
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 8: They're washing this thing through various programs that they have Nancy,

660
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 8: in order to try to tighten down the image because

661
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 8: it's I'm sure that it's very granulated, particularly given the

662
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 8: nighttime status of this, where you're not going to be

663
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 8: able to pick up you know, without some kind of

664
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 8: light enhancement like an infrared or something like this, that'll

665
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 8: be able to give you finer detail. So it's going

666
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 8: to be greatly compromised. And look, you know, you have

667
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 8: to think about the house itself. This house is kind

668
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 8: of shaded in darkness from the rear. You're not going

669
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 8: to see a lot there. There's not a lot. It's

670
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 8: not like being in a huge city where you've got

671
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 8: street lights that are all over the place that'll be

672
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 8: illuminating this environment. So it's going to be a tough

673
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 8: ask if you're thinking about attempting to get an image

674
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 8: that's that's capturable so that they can do what they

675
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 8: need to do in order to identify this individual.

676
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 2: Okay, Joe Scott, just please stop. You know what I

677
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 2: can see.

678
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: I can see a tiny little crater on the moon,

679
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: but I can't get the tag number.

680
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,760
Speaker 2: Or the visage of Coburger's face.

681
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 8: Why. Because these houses don't have the Hubble telescope on them.

682
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: Nobody likes a smart alec or I know what all,

683
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Well.

684
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 2: You're right.

685
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 8: The cameras that you're talking about, they're not the highest

686
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 8: of quality. I mean, look, I mean he are turned

687
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 8: out every single day. They're in shops all over the place.

688
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 8: It doesn't mean that it's going to be a great quality.

689
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: Did Brian Coberger's parents suspect their son? An explosive new

690
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 3: book suggests family knew more than they ever let on

691
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 3: about their troubled son.

692
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: Howard Bloom.

693
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 1: His book is so talk full of evidence and facts

694
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: supporting what many of us have been thinking and pondering.

695
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 2: So much more. When the night comes.

696
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: Falling my Howard to Bloom, Howard, we were just talking

697
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: to Joe Scott Morgan about why the FBI could not

698
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: enhance that video.

699
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 2: Better than it did? I get it? But I heard

700
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 2: you saying something in the background. What was that?

701
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 4: Well, not only couldn't they enhance the video, the FBI

702
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 4: has this program that they developed really for anti terrorism activities,

703
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 4: and they tried three different times to analyze the car,

704
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 4: and they got three different years. Originally they had the

705
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 4: car was not a Hondai, a Lantra. They made a

706
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 4: Nissan CenTra, and then finally there was a twenty eleven,

707
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 4: and then it's twenty thirteen, and then they finally play

708
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 4: at the end said twenty eleven to twenty fifteen. I

709
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 4: can assure you the FBI's fumblings will come up in court.

710
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 4: I'm sure your fins will raise this and try to

711
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,439
Speaker 4: impugne the identification of the car.

712
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute, Wait a minute, Wait a minute.

713
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: The FBI fumbling. I don't see them fumbling here. What

714
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: do you mean by that?

715
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 4: Well, fumbling in the sense that their technology was just

716
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 4: not up to snuff and they gave declarations. The first

717
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 4: original be on the lookout notice was not for a

718
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 4: twenty to fifteen HONDEI Alantra, It was for a twenty

719
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 4: eleven honde Alandra.

720
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: Hold On, Howard Bloom, you mentioned a detail, and I'm

721
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,720
Speaker 1: not sure if you thought I was just gonna ignore

722
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: it or didn't catch it, but you said the FBI

723
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: was trying to enhance They tried it three times, I

724
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: believe you said. But are you referring to the type

725
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: of video surveillance that was ultimately introduced in the Kyle

726
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: Rittenhouse case, where we had satellite surveillance from nearly nine

727
00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: thousand feet in the air to figure out what really

728
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:06,479
Speaker 1: happened and there was video, did the FBI go to

729
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,320
Speaker 1: the extent of grabbing SAT video?

730
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 4: So this was much more rudimentary. What they had was

731
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 4: the surveillance photograph, and they tried to enhance it. These

732
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 4: were grainy photographs and they thought they run them through

733
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 4: this machine, this process, this computer program that was developed

734
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 4: at vast expense by the Department of Defense, Defense and

735
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 4: Homeland Security, originally for terrorism activities, and they thought they

736
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 4: could get the identity of the car, and then they

737
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 4: passed it out in their original be on the lookout

738
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 4: at the Moscow police sent nationwide for a twenty eleven

739
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 4: to twenty thirteen Conde a Lantra that was a mistake.

740
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 4: That wasn't the year of the car they ultimately decided

741
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 4: was Coburg.

742
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: Guys, we are speaking to an all star panel, including

743
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: author Howard Bloom, who has just finished book When the

744
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: Night Comes Falling a Requiem for the Idaho student murders.

745
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: To my panel, I want to thank you for kindly

746
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: agreeing to join us again, because we've barely scratched the

747
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: surface of the evidence, how it was accumulated and what

748
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: does it mean with Howard Bloom, for instance, have we

749
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: found a receipt for the outfit Brian Coburger purchased in

750
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 1: war during the murders.

751
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 2: There's so much more. Please join us.

752
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: With the same all star panel, including Howard Bloom, as we,

753
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: like the investigators comb through the coburger evidence. Thank you

754
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: to our guests for being with us tonight and illuminating

755
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: the mysterious facts surrounding a quadruple murder of four beautiful students.

756
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us as we search for the

757
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: truth that will hopefully result in a true verdict.

758
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 2: Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend,