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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and get to Zoron, and let's start

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Speaker 2: off with a clip of Pete Buddhagic talking about why

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Speaker 2: he thinks that Zoron won. And Pete says, you know,

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Speaker 2: his policy, like that, really that really wasn't the thing.

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Speaker 2: I think people are reading too much into this whole

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Speaker 2: like free bust thing. Let's take a listen to to

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Speaker 2: Pete explaining his version of why Zoron was so successful.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people are focused on the leftism,

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Speaker 3: the ideological leftism that I think we shouldn't be so

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Speaker 3: surprised that prevailed in a New York Democratic Party primary.

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Speaker 3: But I think if my party wants to learn lessons

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Speaker 3: from Mamdani's success that are portable to a place like Michigan,

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Speaker 3: where I live, it's less about the ideology and more

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Speaker 3: about the message discipline of focusing on what people care about,

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Speaker 3: and the tactical wisdom of getting out there and talking

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Speaker 3: to everybody.

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Speaker 4: Nailed and I love.

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Speaker 2: I've seen several different versions of this where it's like

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Speaker 2: the assessment is, oh, well, he's young, he's charismatic, he

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Speaker 2: was talking about costs of living, you know, they say

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Speaker 2: in this very amorphous way, like the specifics of his

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Speaker 2: proposals didn't matter, and or it's oh, he understood social

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Speaker 2: media and he knew how to make videos. Anything to

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Speaker 2: keep from grappling with the fact that a central part

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Speaker 2: of his appeal are his specific policies, including, by the way,

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Speaker 2: his support for Palestinian rights. The data is just totally

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Speaker 2: clear at this point that he didn't win in spite

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Speaker 2: of his willingness to, you know, stand on business of

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Speaker 2: being an anti Zionist. He won in part because that

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Speaker 2: was such an appealing position to take in the context

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Speaker 2: especially of a Democratic primary.

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Speaker 5: I mean, he's the millennial Like, he's who a lot

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Speaker 5: of establishment Democrats see as like the ambassador the party's

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Speaker 5: like next best ambassador to millennials and to millennial men

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Speaker 5: because he's young and a man. But he's not. It's

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Speaker 5: actually kind of interesting. This made me think about this

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Speaker 5: when it comes to Buddha Judge for the first time

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Speaker 5: in the sense that like, he doesn't capture any of

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Speaker 5: the mood of millennials for sure, or of like people

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Speaker 5: again under the age of forty roughly in the country.

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Speaker 5: And you'd think that Democrats would understand that about him.

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Speaker 5: He's so you know, he's he's able to talk like

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Speaker 5: a normal Midwestern dude when he's on with Andrew Schultz

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Speaker 5: or a different podcast hosts, but he definitely like doesn't

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Speaker 5: at all reflect like Mam Donnie. Is also a cheerful candidate,

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Speaker 5: right like he I think Soccer has pointed this out,

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Speaker 5: like a guy's always smiling wherever he goes, even though

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Speaker 5: he's speaking to the miseries of younger Americans millennial generation ze.

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Speaker 5: But Buddha Judge is not somebody who comes across this

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Speaker 5: like really understanding that and really like, do you know

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Speaker 5: what I'm saying, Like, that's not what he speaks to

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Speaker 5: he he sort of like seems to gloss over a

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Speaker 5: lot of that. And I think this is this clip

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Speaker 5: is a pretty good example of him saying, well, New

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Speaker 5: York City is deep blue.

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Speaker 4: It was a vibes election.

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Speaker 5: You know, It's true Cuomo was a bad candidate and

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Speaker 5: all of that, but Mam Donnie is powerful for Democrats

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Speaker 5: precisely because he kind of understands the precariousness of the

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Speaker 5: situation that the twenty four year old man finds himself

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Speaker 5: in in very particular ways that you don't really hear

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Speaker 5: Buddha Judge talking about at all.

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Speaker 2: Well, Democrats took this lesson from the Trump election. I'm

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Speaker 2: basically like, we need to go on podcasts.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, right, right, right, right, right right.

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Speaker 2: But they didn't realize that it's not just you need

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Speaker 2: to go on podcasts. It's like, you need to be

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Speaker 2: able to say something when you're on those podcasts that

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Speaker 2: is going to have appeal.

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Speaker 4: You need to.

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Speaker 5: Exclame the dem establishment, because that is what Trump did

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Speaker 5: with a Republican establishment. That's what Jadie Vance does with

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Speaker 5: Republican establishment.

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Speaker 4: Whether or not. You think they believe it. That's why

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Speaker 4: Joe Rogan likes them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean again, Israel is really central here.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sorry to keep picking on center Slacken, because

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Speaker 2: I actually really appreciate her coming on our show. But

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Speaker 2: you know, I think I asked her like, what did

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Speaker 2: you want? Why did you want to talk to us,

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Speaker 2: and she basically said, like, well, my staff pitches and

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Speaker 2: pitched me on it. And you know, we all have

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Speaker 2: this sense of basically we need to get out into

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Speaker 2: independent media, but if you don't understand the audience is

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Speaker 2: there and what they need to hear from a politician

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Speaker 2: in order for them to trust you and for you

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Speaker 2: to have any credibility with them at all, Like you

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Speaker 2: can go on every podcast in the world and it's

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Speaker 2: not going to help you one bit whatsoever.

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Speaker 4: And like if Yabla Harris had gone on Rogan, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Right, And you know, I really do think, like I've

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Speaker 2: become quite convinced that the sort of price of entry

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Speaker 2: into credibility in those spaces on the democratic side is

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Speaker 2: being like having any sort of soul and conscience around

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Speaker 2: Palestinian life. And you know, if we look at here,

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Speaker 2: we've got a bunch of interesting poll numbers with regard

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Speaker 2: to Zorn.

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Speaker 6: We can put C two up on the screen.

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Speaker 2: This one reflects what the top contributors to his success

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Speaker 2: in the race ultimately were. And Number one his plans

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Speaker 2: to lower costs.

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Speaker 6: That's great.

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Speaker 2: Eighty nine percent said that was really important to me.

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Speaker 2: Number two his plans to tax the wealthy and stand

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Speaker 2: up to corporations. Now that's part of why Pete wants

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Speaker 2: to say, oh, no, no, no, it didn't have anything to

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Speaker 2: do with his policy positions, because you know, he's interested

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Speaker 2: in like a maintenance of the status quo. But number

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Speaker 2: three on that list is his support for Palestinian rights.

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Speaker 2: Sixty two percent of people said that was important to me,

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Speaker 2: and only twelve percent said it wasn't that it wasn't

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Speaker 2: important to them at all in terms of how they voted.

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Speaker 2: So Zoran didn't didn't try to make, you know, Palestinian

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Speaker 2: rights central to his campaign, but his opponents decided to

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Speaker 2: make that a central question in the campaign. And there's

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Speaker 2: just no doubt that they did him a tremendous favor

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Speaker 2: by you know, trying to smear him as an anti

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Speaker 2: Semite and constantly talking about, you know what do you

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Speaker 2: go to Israel and where does he stand on this?

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Speaker 2: That was a huge boon to him in this primary.

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Speaker 2: I think the numbers are quite clear at this point,

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Speaker 2: and we've also got pulling emily about where he stands

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Speaker 2: for the general election. If this polling is to believe,

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Speaker 2: be believed, and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't,

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Speaker 2: given that, you know, the heavily democratic makeup of the

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Speaker 2: city of New York, Zorin looks set to coast to

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Speaker 2: victory whether or not all of his current opponents stay

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Speaker 2: in the race or not. Let's put C three up

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Speaker 2: on the screen. You can see all of the different

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Speaker 2: demographic groups that he is strongest with. This isn't a

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Speaker 2: five way vote. I mean, just look at this list.

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Speaker 2: So young Asians, he's winning eighty nine percent of them.

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Speaker 2: Men eighteen to thirty four, a key demographic group that

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Speaker 2: Democrats did not do so hot with in the general election.

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Speaker 2: He's winning eighty five percent of them, young women seventy

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Speaker 2: nine percent, overall ages twenty five to seventy nine percent.

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Speaker 2: You can just go down this list. A couple more

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Speaker 2: that I just want to highlight here Jews age eighteen

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Speaker 2: to forty four, he is winning sixty seven percent of

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Speaker 2: young Jewish voters. Overall Jewish voters, okay, forty three percent,

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Speaker 2: which is much larger by you know, by double digits.

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Speaker 4: That's a lot of anti Semitic Jews.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, but that he wins the plurality of Jews,

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Speaker 2: and it's not close, it's by double digits. So you know,

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Speaker 2: we really need to put to bed this idea that

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Speaker 2: he constantly is getting HARANGI, Oh, you have work to

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Speaker 2: do with the Jewish community and you need to talk

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Speaker 2: to them, and you're going to make Jews unsafe, blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah. Well, if somebody needs to ask Andrew Cuomo

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Speaker 2: why Jewish voters apparently don't trust him and why he's

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Speaker 2: got so much work to do apparently with the Jewish community,

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Speaker 2: since he is losing now to Zoron among those groups,

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Speaker 2: and according to Cuomo's numbers, lost Jewish voters in the primary.

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Speaker 2: Majority of them, according to Cuomo, voted for Zoron in

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Speaker 2: the primary as well. So you know, frankly, it's anti

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Speaker 2: semitic to project onto Jewish voters that they all have

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Speaker 2: this one monolichlithic view that they are all on board

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Speaker 2: with Israel committing a genocide in the Gaza strip and

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Speaker 2: that this is a top priority and top issue for

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Speaker 2: them is like how many times you're going to visit

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Speaker 2: Israel and how much you love Benjamin Ntt Yahoo. This

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Speaker 2: is just thoroughly debunked and honestly a disgusting view of

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Speaker 2: the electorate.

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Speaker 5: Can we just put the graphic up on the screen

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Speaker 5: one more time? Sorry, There's there's one that caught my

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Speaker 5: eye that I wanted to point out.

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Speaker 6: The last one.

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Speaker 5: Check a check out Curtis leiwa there, Crystal forty percent

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Speaker 5: of Staten Island.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, white Catholics, Staten Island, white union household is interesting

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Speaker 2: and white non college that's his strength.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely crushing it on Staten Island. Sorry, I had to

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Speaker 5: point that one out.

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Speaker 7: I saw.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, I also, I think this chart is so important

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Speaker 2: because it just completely exposes the lie of the idea

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Speaker 2: that oh Zorn's just winning like affluent white socialists in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 2: That's a good point, Like, look at this list. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's it's overwhelming. I he's winning black women fifty one

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Speaker 2: percent of the all of the you know, the caricature

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Speaker 2: of where his appeal is is very much debunked by

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Speaker 2: this chart showing where he's strongest, which is like basically everywhere.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, forty three percent of non college Yeah, I think

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Speaker 5: one hundred and one hundred ninety nine household income. That's

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Speaker 5: fifty three percent, fifty to ninety nine. He's at fifty

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Speaker 5: three percent of household income. So I think that is

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Speaker 5: a really good point as well, Crystal. Sample sizes, I

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Speaker 5: will say, in that pool are pretty small, it even

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Speaker 5: says down there on the screen. Results should be treated

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Speaker 5: as directional.

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Speaker 4: But we'll see.

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Speaker 5: More in the days to come, and certainly some of

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Speaker 5: this matches up with what we saw from results after

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Speaker 5: the primary. Let's go ahead and put C four on

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Speaker 5: the screen. This is I think it's actually even from

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Speaker 5: the same poll, isn't it, Crystal the data for Progress.

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Speaker 5: This is New York City Democratic primary voters believe Israel

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Speaker 5: is committing genocide in Gaza, all likely voters, that is

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Speaker 5: at seventy eight percent, and only thirteen percent say no,

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Speaker 5: nine percent say don't know. So if you are interested

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Speaker 5: in why Cuomo's approach during the primary failed dramatically, this

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Speaker 5: pole makes that pretty clear.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've got another one in the same vein

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Speaker 2: about Netanya Who. So it's Zorn's position, which I fully support,

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Speaker 2: that if Netanna Who comes to New York City, he

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Speaker 2: should be arrested because there's an outstanding international criminal court

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Speaker 2: arrest for it against him for being an alleged war criminal.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's alleged, but whatever. Yeah, New York

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Speaker 2: voters are on board with that too. Sixty three percent

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Speaker 2: of Democratic peorrimory voters were like, yes, actually you should

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Speaker 2: arrest Benjamin Natna who in only twenty percent say no.

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Speaker 2: The other sixteen percent say they are not sure. Just

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Speaker 2: to give you a sense of on what sala solid

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Speaker 2: ground he was on with all of his positions, which

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Speaker 2: again his opponents really made central to the race. He

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Speaker 2: made cost of living central to the campaign he was running,

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Speaker 2: but his opponents were bound and determined to put these

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Speaker 2: issues at the center of the race, and only I

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Speaker 2: think aided him in securing a crushing primary victory. But

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Speaker 2: don't worry, Emily, his adversaries not given up. We can

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Speaker 2: put C five up on the screen. We have a

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Speaker 2: new you know, billionaire to multimillionaire effort to try to

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Speaker 2: defeat Zoron in the general election. You've got a new

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Speaker 2: anti mom Donnie super Pac forming a Hedge funder and

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Speaker 2: Trump voter, pledged five hundred thousand of his own cash.

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Speaker 2: If you want to join his zoom call on how

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Speaker 2: to stop Zoron, you will need to pay at least

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Speaker 2: twenty five thousand dollars is the price of admission to

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Speaker 2: this must be the greatest zoom call of all time.

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Speaker 2: But in this you know, in this polling that just

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Speaker 2: came out, even if all the even if everybody drops

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Speaker 2: out except Cuomo, who appears to be his strongest head

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Speaker 2: to head opponent in the general election, you still have

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Speaker 2: in this poll Zoron winning by twelve points, which coincidentally

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Speaker 2: is exactly what you want the primary buy as well.

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Speaker 2: So you know, it's just utterly absurd at this point,

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Speaker 2: and really discussing that Chuck Schumer Keem Jeffries can't bother

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Speaker 2: to endorse the Democratic nominee who has much higher favorability

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Speaker 2: ratings that either one of them do in New York. Actually,

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Speaker 2: the only candidate, the only politician has higher approval rating

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Speaker 2: in New York than Zoron is AOC. And they think that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, they just because they're worried about their donors,

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Speaker 2: and they don't like his position on Israel. They refuse

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Speaker 2: to endorse the Democratic nominee. And you know, I think

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Speaker 2: it is only hastening the decline and exposing the hypocrisy

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Speaker 2: and the distance between democratic leadership and where the democratic

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Speaker 2: base is at this point.

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Speaker 5: So I believe on Dami this is the last thing

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Speaker 5: I'll say is on his way back from Uganda, and

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Speaker 5: there has been some talk in Maga circles that the

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Speaker 5: administration should detain him on his way back. That's something

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Speaker 5: we have seen happen in a couple of cases of

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Speaker 5: the first six months the Trump administration to people who

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Speaker 5: have been critical of US foreign policy, particularly when it

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Speaker 5: comes to Israel. So that's just something to watch today, Crystal,

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Speaker 5: I don't know if that was on your radar, but

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Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure that's been discussed. So we'll keep everybody

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Speaker 5: updated with any news we hear on that.

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Speaker 2: Well, it would both be obviously outrageous and go to

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Speaker 2: ask if they did that, and also just a massive

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Speaker 2: boost too Zorn and his campaign.

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Speaker 6: It would be a lot closely.

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Speaker 5: It would be so like politically foolish of them to

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Speaker 5: do so.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, we will see.

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Speaker 5: Let's move on to Crypto Crystal Republicans making a big

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Speaker 5: push to just boost the crypto industry before heading on

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Speaker 5: in August Recess. Nothing more important to do, So we

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Speaker 5: will be joined by Peter Ryan shortly. Well, we're happy

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Speaker 5: to be joined now by Peter Ryan. He's the CEO

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Speaker 5: and founder of Ryan Research, and he has been on

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Speaker 5: a bit of a journey when it comes to crypto.

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Speaker 4: Peter has been in the space.

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Speaker 5: He's going to tell us all about this for a

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Speaker 5: long time. Came to sour on crypto, wrote an excellent essay.

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Speaker 5: This is the first element we can go ahead and

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Speaker 5: put up on the screen for Compact magazine recently that

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Speaker 5: I cannot recommend to people enough, especially if you're sort

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Speaker 5: of crypto curious. There's a lot of great explainer details

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Speaker 5: in this piece, and it's just it's a really really

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Speaker 5: helpful kind of glimpse inside of the industry that goes

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Speaker 5: into granular details.

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Speaker 4: So Peter, thank you so much for being here. We

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Speaker 4: appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Also has a fantastic headline there, money by vile means.

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Speaker 8: Yes, thanks for having me for the Shakespeare buffs out there.

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Speaker 7: That's where that line is from.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, of course, so tell us a little bit

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Speaker 5: and people can read more about this in the essay.

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Speaker 5: But you have such an interesting background in the crypto space,

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Speaker 5: and right now, Republicans, this is the so called news

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Speaker 5: hook that we want to talk about, made a big

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Speaker 5: push with the Genius Act before they headed out for

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Speaker 5: August research at Recess, and people right now are kind

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Speaker 5: of trying to figure out what it means for the industry.

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Speaker 5: The industry was pretty supportive of the Genius Act, although

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Speaker 5: there were some controversy about it, but it regulates stable coins. So, Peter,

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Speaker 5: we'll get in all of that. Let's start with your

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Speaker 5: background as somebody who was initially in the thrall of

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Speaker 5: crypto's promise to decentralize the monetary system and came to

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Speaker 5: sour on it.

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Speaker 4: What was that process like for you?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so I got into bitcoin in twenty thirteen. It

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Speaker 8: was some of the early crazy days. It really attracted

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Speaker 8: me because I was sort of part of this generation

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Speaker 8: of the Ron Paul movement and its response to the

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Speaker 8: financial crisis that occurred in two thousand and eight, and

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Speaker 8: bitcoin seemed like this great way to marry the private

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Speaker 8: sector with all these Austrian economic beliefs and so that's

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Speaker 8: how it was sold in Many of the early bitcoiners

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Speaker 8: were these idealists. But as time went on and I

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Speaker 8: started to work in depth inside the industry, I met

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Speaker 8: a lot of the big players. I saw a different

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Speaker 8: historical events transpire that would reveal some of the inner

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Speaker 8: workings of how this market operated. From there, after being

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Speaker 8: employed as a research analyst with Coindesk, I started to

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Speaker 8: doubt some of these idealistic tenets. And then in about

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Speaker 8: twenty nineteen, I really came full circle and saw a

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Speaker 8: lot of what was sold in twenty thirteen to me,

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Speaker 8: just did not cut the mustard. It wasn't true. History

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Speaker 8: proved it was not true. And so ever since then,

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Speaker 8: I've been an independent consultant talking about my skepticism on Bitcoin,

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Speaker 8: on crypto in general, and more recently the very specific

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Speaker 8: and unique role of stable coins in the government's policy.

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Speaker 2: I want to get more to stable coins because that's

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Speaker 2: a very important piece and ties into the quote unquote

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Speaker 2: Genius Act that just passed. But you wrote in your piece,

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Speaker 2: when bitcoin, the first cryptocurrency, was invented, it was promoted

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Speaker 2: as a financial technology that would empower individuals and wrest

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Speaker 2: power away from the state and centralized elites. Just a

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Speaker 2: decade and a half later, those same elites, including the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration and bipart of some majorities in Congress, have

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Speaker 2: embraced cryptocurrencies. But this is because rather than lifting up

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Speaker 2: ordinary citizens, crypto has become a new means of expanding

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Speaker 2: elite power and wealth. Can you elaborate some on that

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Speaker 2: for us, Peter, sure.

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Speaker 8: So what you have to understand is that the reason

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Speaker 8: the government is attracted to crypto and bitcoin right now

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Speaker 8: is because it helps government. Yep, that's sort of a

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Speaker 8: pretty obvious point, but a lot of people aren't so.

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Speaker 4: Clear on that, Peter, can you speak to as well?

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Speaker 5: It helps government and helps big business right exactly.

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Speaker 8: So a way to sum this up is that the

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Speaker 8: cryptocurrency system, with all these coins with stable coins at

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Speaker 8: the heart of it, they are a shadow central bank

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Speaker 8: system conducting shadow money printing to do shadow debt monetization

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Speaker 8: and shadow quantitative easing. So that's the shortest way I

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Speaker 8: can describe it. What that means is essentially, there is

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Speaker 8: all this paper value being generated in the crypto markets,

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Speaker 8: and as that paper value keeps going up, as that

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Speaker 8: asset inflation keeps going up, that allows the froth to

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Speaker 8: spill over and very specifically start buying US debt as

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Speaker 8: the rest of the world enters its multipolar phase and

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Speaker 8: stops buying US debt. So this is why stable coins,

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Speaker 8: where they need to be backed by US debt in

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Speaker 8: order to operate, are now a bigger holder of US

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Speaker 8: debt than countries like Germany. And then as we get

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Speaker 8: into the private sector, all of this frauth that's coming

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Speaker 8: out is actually starting to enter the private sector, enter equities,

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Speaker 8: and that's going to create a knock on effect that's

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Speaker 8: going to start pushing that up. So basically, the crypto

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Speaker 8: sector wins, the government wins, and the traditional incumbent corporate

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Speaker 8: elites win through this big triangular system.

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Speaker 5: So this, obviously this leads us to the question of

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Speaker 5: how you have still so many true believers in the

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Speaker 5: crypto space, people who haven't been on the journey but

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Speaker 5: started from the point a that you started on and

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Speaker 5: are still there who continue. I did see some criticism

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Speaker 5: of Genius and some of the other legislation that's been

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Speaker 5: considered by Republicans in particular from that kind of true

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Speaker 5: believer crowd who are worried about central bank digital currency

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Speaker 5: and all of that. But you have people, I think

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Speaker 5: of the Winklevoss guys who are like libertarian ish, and

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Speaker 5: maybe they're not the best example because they aren't like

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Speaker 5: from the libertarian kind of crunchy world that came out

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Speaker 5: of the Ron Paul twenty twelve, of the movement in particular.

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Speaker 4: But there are true believers still in the.

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Speaker 5: Space who continue to believe that crypto is a benefit

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Speaker 5: when it comes to decentralization and when it comes to

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Speaker 5: undermining globalism and all of that. So can you tell

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Speaker 5: us more about why people you think, you know, people

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Speaker 5: you've spent time around, are still kind of clinging to

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Speaker 5: that in the face of which just seems so obvious

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Speaker 5: to be a centralization effort. And maybe even also if

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Speaker 5: you're aware of some fissures in the movement as well,

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Speaker 5: that you could fill us in on.

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Speaker 8: Sure, So this is where the technology, the sense of mechanics, innovation,

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Speaker 8: anything like that is really not what's causing those true

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Speaker 8: believers to stay in the bitcoin camp. I think it's

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Speaker 8: more exactly that it's belief. I think Jannis Veri Faccus,

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Speaker 8: the Greek economists, put it best when he talked about

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Speaker 8: how class caliberalism and neoliberals in centered the market as

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Speaker 8: this divinity. And then, as he's written more recently in

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Speaker 8: his new Conception of that, which is like techno lordism,

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Speaker 8: he says, that's transition from the market to the algorithm

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Speaker 8: to the code, and that's the new divinity.

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Speaker 7: And I think that's what's.

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Speaker 8: Going on here, that people are trying to externalize what

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Speaker 8: is ultimately a democratic process to shape society in the

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Speaker 8: way that the majority of voters would like it to be.

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Speaker 8: But instead of doing that the hard and very direct way,

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Speaker 8: it's this sense of externalizing the problem into these things, Well,

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Speaker 8: the market will fix it or the algorithm will fix it.

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Speaker 8: So I think that is that is really inherently baked

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Speaker 8: into the bitcoin thesis, and that's why people can't really

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Speaker 8: break out of that.

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Speaker 2: I'd like for you to talk a little bit more

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Speaker 2: about that, because I'm sort of fascinated by I mean,

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Speaker 2: it is almost like a religious devotion. You know, there's

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Speaker 2: like a cult like aspect to people who are those

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Speaker 2: like Dinamal true believers, and you were one of those people,

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Speaker 2: so I'm curious. You know, it's very hard when someone

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Speaker 2: has sort of like this, you know, this ideal, this

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Speaker 2: ideology they've committed themselves to, They've you know, like committed

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Speaker 2: to it personally. There may be financial aspects, assets at stake,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. What was like the first piece of information

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Speaker 2: that for you was like wait a second. That started

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Speaker 2: you on the trajectory away from thinking that this was,

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Speaker 2: you know, some sort of solution and that it would

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Speaker 2: actually empower people and is serving in exactly the opposite capacity.

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Speaker 7: Sure.

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Speaker 8: So one way that this divinity of the code starts

438
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 8: to come into play is how people always talk about

439
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 8: big coins a hard asset. It has a fixed supply,

440
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 8: it's twenty one million coins, it's capped, it's like gold.

441
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 8: So people always talk about that, but no one really

442
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 8: asked the follow up question. And so I started to

443
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 8: ask some of these follow up questions, which in the

444
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 8: end seem very simple, but it's like, why is that

445
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 8: the case? Please demonstrate how that maintains the case. Because

446
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 8: gold is something you have to dig out of the ground.

447
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 8: But bitcoin is a software and as anybody could tell you, humans,

448
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 8: right software, Humans also have to update software.

449
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, and so.

450
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, And so once you start thinking that, then

451
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 8: you immediately start to go, well, who are these humans, Like,

452
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 8: does anyone care, like who these people operating this huge

453
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 8: asset in our economy now that's becoming so interdependent, and

454
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 8: no one seems to really want to broadcast that examination.

455
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 8: But like, if I were to just show you a

456
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 8: little stat here, like would it be surprising that only

457
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 8: forty two software developers have written ninety percent of Bitcoin's code,

458
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 8: And there's about five software developers give or take on

459
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 8: the year that have sort of administrative privileges on top

460
00:24:59,359 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 8: of bitcoins.

461
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 7: And we can monitor these.

462
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 8: People, we can identify them, we can see what they're

463
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 8: chatting about, but no one wants to sort of comment

464
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 8: on this. But if we start to look into it,

465
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 8: then we can see, oh, well, this property of fixed

466
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 8: supply is only a subjective whim of this something that

467
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 8: looks to me like almost a central bank committee of

468
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 8: software developers deciding what their monetary policy is on bitcoin.

469
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 8: So you could say, maybe they choose the fixed supply

470
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 8: and that's good monetary policy, that that does not change

471
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 8: the fact that there is centralization going.

472
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 5: On there, and also globalization, which lends itself to centralization

473
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 5: in a high tech age. And this is Peter one

474
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 5: of the questions I always have for people in the

475
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 5: crypto space because I'm not, you know, somebody who's like

476
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 5: super super deep in the details. I'm not like major investor.

477
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 5: I'm not doing code, I'm not doing any of that stuff.

478
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 5: But I have never understood how structurally crypto can exist

479
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 5: with any regulation in a way that is utopian or

480
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 5: I don't mean that in a pejorative sense, in a

481
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 5: way that's true to the spirit that I'm totally sympathetic

482
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 5: too and supportive of decentralization. So when I see someone

483
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 5: like Cynthia Alumus, Republican Senator, has been very, very supportive

484
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 5: of crypto over the years, going to these conferences and

485
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 5: being met and lauded and praised by people in that space,

486
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 5: I just am curious, structurally, if we steal man this,

487
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 5: is there actually a way, in a fantasy, hypothetical scenario

488
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 5: where crypto could exist in the year of Our Lord

489
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 5: twenty twenty five, in the twenty first century in a

490
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 5: way that is not with any regulation, in a way

491
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 5: that maintains the spirit of decentralization, Because that to me

492
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 5: just seems impossible on its face. But I don't know, like,

493
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 5: is it possible to regulate crypto and also have crypto

494
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 5: be decentralizing force just I don't get it.

495
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 8: So there's a theoretical argument that academics can have on

496
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 8: the core concept of peer to peer technology. Now, when

497
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 8: you look at the academic literature and the case studies involved,

498
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 8: usually small scale peer to peer technology works. But the

499
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 8: challenge is when you scale it. This is where the

500
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 8: problems of centralization come in. Now, when you combine that

501
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 8: with money and saturating people's financial transactions, incorporating into state

502
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 8: institutions like the Treasury and so forth, that's even a

503
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 8: harder problem to try to figure out. So and even

504
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 8: in the structural ways that bitcoin's designed, a lot of

505
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 8: people say that, oh, well, it's it's censorship resistant, it's decentralized.

506
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 8: You can just transact and send money anywhere you want.

507
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 8: But there are middleman in bitcoin, the miners in bitcoin,

508
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 8: those really power hungry server farms out there. Those are

509
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 8: the middlemum of bitcoin, and they're the ones that get

510
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 8: your transactions and decide if they're going to process them

511
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 8: on the blockchain or not. And we've already have documented

512
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 8: examples of these miners complying with the Treasury's O fact standards.

513
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 8: To sanction and blacklist certain bitcoin addresses, and there's even

514
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 8: more advanced ways to do that that are too long

515
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 8: to get into.

516
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 7: But this is.

517
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 8: Where we've already been through the looking glass year. A

518
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 8: company like Mahra has championed this idea of being compliant

519
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 8: with the OPAC standards in the mining industry and goes

520
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 8: on to say their CEO, I believe that the way

521
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 8: for the US to increase its share of bitcoin miners

522
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 8: is that the US spased bitcoin point miners need to

523
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 8: be more compliant to OFAC. So it really gets into

524
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 8: this catch Trowny two that as the US grows it's

525
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:14,479
Speaker 8: bitcoin industry in wider crypto industry, it keeps diminishing those

526
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 8: ideals of decentralization. So I would say it's a very

527
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 8: hard nut to crack. But where we get into now

528
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 8: with this legislation coming forward and how we've accepted that

529
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 8: crypto is now a normal part of our economy. Where

530
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 8: I look at that, it's not innovation, it's not a

531
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 8: new product or surf that's really adding value. What's going

532
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 8: on is we have two financial systems to financial infrastructures.

533
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 8: One is the traditional one with all the regulations and

534
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 8: that would have been a real fight to try to

535
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 8: deregulate that. But why go through the pain of doing

536
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 8: that when you can just open up a parallel system

537
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 8: with all the deregulation, and then when you combine them

538
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 8: and aggregate, the net is that you have a more

539
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 8: deregulated financial system. So that's really the trick going on here.

540
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: Well, and that leads to my final question, which is,

541
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: you know, are we looking at some sort of a

542
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 2: crypto crypto bubble bursting and taxpayers being on the hook

543
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: for a big crypto bailout given that there's no longer

544
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 2: this no longer separate ecosystem. This is completely mainstreamed within

545
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: our financial institutions. In President of the United States obviously

546
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: like you know himself benefiting to the tune of millions,

547
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: if not billions of dollars from the crypto industry. So,

548
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: I mean, does that seem to you like where we're headed?

549
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 7: It is very likely.

550
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 8: I have suggested that this strategy of pumping up the

551
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 8: crypto markets has a short term logic to it, But

552
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 8: like all bubbles, all bubbles have a short term logic.

553
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,959
Speaker 8: They go up, that's the nature of bubbles. Yeah, so

554
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 8: it's no one can ever predict the exact time when

555
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 8: a bubble will pop. But it seems like once we

556
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 8: get outside of you know, the five to ten year horizon,

557
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 8: that's where the wheels come off. And let's compare this

558
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 8: to the housing bubble, there was at least an argument

559
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 8: there was a physical house.

560
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 7: You know, there was a rationale to.

561
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 8: Why the value could keep going up and why there

562
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 8: was fundamental value underlying it. With this, we almost have

563
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 8: a parody where these are completely digital, fictitious casino tokens practically,

564
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 8: and they're making up more and more nominal value. And

565
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 8: when these things pop, you know, there's nothing underlying it.

566
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 8: And so what ends up happening is we just start

567
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 8: piling more and more risk into this type of asset

568
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 8: class and making it, you know, collateralized to traditional transactions

569
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 8: that we do in the economy. If you start looking

570
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 8: into how mortgages are starting to accept these as collateral

571
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 8: and so forth another way, and so once that keeps

572
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 8: getting saturated, now this asset class, which is you know,

573
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 8: no one would think it's crazy for this thing to

574
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 8: like go down fifty percent in a day, even with

575
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 8: the stable coins that are supposed to be the safest

576
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 8: thing there. Traditionally, we've seen a lot of allegations that

577
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 8: they don't actually back their coins with one to one reserves,

578
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 8: which is what they say they are doing. The New

579
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 8: York AG actually said this in twenty nineteen about one

580
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 8: of the major stable coins. She said they lied, She

581
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 8: said that they did not have the reserves. They said

582
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 8: their lawyers had to admit it, and they ultimately settled

583
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 8: with the New York AG. And so like this has

584
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 8: all been documented. We have cases where the market has

585
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 8: found this out, has broken the peg on the stable coins,

586
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 8: we have legal sources that have proven this the case,

587
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 8: like the New York AG, and we just have our

588
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 8: sort of other historical examples of cryptogaling pop. So the

589
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 8: fact that it's going to be bigger than all past

590
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 8: bubbles of crypto in the past doesn't really negate the

591
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 8: fact that there is no underlying value.

592
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:13,719
Speaker 7: This stuff is very risky.

593
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 8: There are multiple vectors where this thing could have a problem.

594
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 8: Whether it's on the technical side, there could just be

595
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 8: a bug that sends everything down, so very very unsavory prospects.

596
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean the value to the extent that there

597
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 5: is values of it being peer to peer and decentralized

598
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 5: and that goes away. And so I guess my last

599
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 5: question for you, Peter, as we're wrapping this up.

600
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 4: Is do you think there will be more people?

601
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 5: Because you know people in the space, and I know

602
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 5: many people in this space and people that I really

603
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 5: like and totally sympathetic to, like Ron Paul type people.

604
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 5: Do you think there will be people in the space

605
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 5: that come away with your perspective soon? Do you think

606
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 5: maybe we're in like a heightened the contradiction phase postgenious

607
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 5: Act and regulation that might be coming from this Republican

608
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 5: administration where others start to get really worried, or do

609
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 5: you think everything is so attractive and appealing right now

610
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 5: that it's just kind of going to be pedaled to

611
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 5: the medal for the next year or so.

612
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think it's hard to distract people from the

613
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 8: gloss of a bubble. They're certainly going to be momentum

614
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 8: piling in now with this legislation. There's a lot of

615
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 8: business institutions that want to incorporate this, get old people

616
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 8: to put their retirement and get young people that are

617
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 8: busy sports gambling to do more crypto gambling. So there's

618
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 8: momentum here, But I think in terms of the early bitcoiners,

619
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 8: a lot of them would actually be sympathetic to my

620
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 8: point of view, even though they might not go all

621
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 8: the way that I have. I'll reference one individual. He's

622
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 8: the editor in chief of Bitcoin magazine, Mark Goodwin. He

623
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 8: wrote the book The Bitcoin Dollar. We generally agree about

624
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 8: eighty to ninety percent on all of these problems and criticisms.

625
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 7: So I would say, right there, if.

626
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 8: The editor in chief of Bitcoin magazine, who's like a

627
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 8: real hardcore bitcoiner, has these very similar opinions and sympathetic

628
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 8: to the way I see it, you know, that's probably

629
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 8: saying something. As another little citation here, when I released

630
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 8: this compact article, the founder of the Peer to Peer Foundation,

631
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 8: which included a forum which actually was the place Satoshi

632
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 8: Nakamato first announced his white paper introducing bitcoins to the world,

633
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 8: the founder of that actually endorsed my compact article saying

634
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 8: this was actually very legitimate and valid criticisms. So I

635
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 8: would say, when with those two sympathizers from the early days,

636
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 8: it's hard to make a claim that this is that

637
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 8: outside the norm. But there's a lot of people, newer

638
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 8: faces and maybe people with you know, more dollar signs

639
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 8: in their eyes, not so much Bitcoin signs that are

640
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 8: looking forward to this current bubble momentum.

641
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 4: Fascinating.

642
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 5: Peter Ryan and Ryan Research, thank you for taking the

643
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 5: time to talk to us about this piece. Thank you

644
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 5: for writing the piece. We hope to have you back,

645
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 5: appreciate it.

646
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 7: Great to be here. Thank you.

647
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: So emily much anticipated section of our show here. Sidney

648
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 2: Sweeney is the new face of American Eagle, the you know,

649
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: sort of iconic mall brand, and her ad campaign has

650
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: sparked quite a bit of discussion and controversy on the

651
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: Internet that we wanted to dig into.

652
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 6: So first let's take.

653
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: A look at the ad that was the most controversial.

654
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 2: Jans are passed on from parents to offspring, often determining

655
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: traits like her color, personality, and you have an eye color.

656
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 6: My jeans are blue.

657
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 5: Sidney Sweeney hasburg keens.

658
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: So you see what they did there with the like

659
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 2: hereditary gens blue jeans.

660
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:07,919
Speaker 4: At the ad.

661
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 5: The end of the ad ends with her saying, see

662
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 5: what I did there?

663
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, yeah, as if we didn't if we didn't

664
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 2: get it. So a lot of people are looking at

665
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 2: this myself, including and going this feels a little like

666
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: eugenics adjacent, and you know, the whole like the gene talk,

667
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: the blue eyes in particular, it's got a real sort

668
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 2: of master race vibe. And of course many people, i'm

669
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 2: sure yourself included, be like, you're ridiculous and you have

670
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 2: derangement syndrome, et cetera. But my case to you, Emily

671
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 2: would be, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that

672
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 2: American Eagle is like a bunch of secret or open

673
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: fascist and Nazis. They are capitalists though, and they're looking

674
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: at the culture. They realize that paid advertisements really don't

675
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: do a whole hell of a lot of good at

676
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 2: this point if they don't come with eyeballs and attention

677
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 2: and controversy. So this is the thing to touch on,

678
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 2: to play with, and the moment to get a reaction,

679
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 2: which they got. And so that's my I mean, it's

680
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 2: not even I think this is just like correct and

681
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 2: accurate that they knew this would spark this sort of

682
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: discussion and controversy. They gave just enough of a nod

683
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: to like sort of eugenics racy Q kind of type

684
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: of content to have plausible deniability, and then they delighted

685
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: in the fervor and the attention around the ad campaign

686
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 2: based on sort of touching on that, you know, like

687
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 2: correctly taboo subject.

688
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 5: So it's hard to it's very hard to ignore when

689
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 5: they're panning the camera and saying that Sidney Sweeney in

690
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 5: the script is saying that her genes are blue and

691
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 5: they have it on her blue eyes. I think Crystal,

692
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 5: my case would be that you were overestimating the competence

693
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 5: of people in the advertising industry and an American eagle

694
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 5: who might have, let's say, cynically said it would be

695
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 5: a real boost to our Sidney Sweeney ad campaign to

696
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 5: do a little wink and nod to white supremacy in

697
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 5: the gene marketing campaign that you know, we'll generate all

698
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 5: kinds of media height by doing like a wink wink

699
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 5: white supremacy like undertone to the Sydney Sweeney ad. So

700
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 5: I think what this speaks to is, well, first of all,

701
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 5: I don't think Sidney Sweeney's people if they saw this

702
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 5: as being anywhere in the vein of white supremacy. Although

703
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 5: she's sort of become this interesting flashpoint and it's sort

704
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 5: of like people are polarizing politically around the question of

705
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 5: Sidney Sweeney, whereas like people on the left are saying,

706
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 5: she's like a clear canary in the coal mine for

707
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 5: the rise of fascism, and people on the right are saying,

708
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 5: some people on the far far front saying, yes, exactly,

709
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 5: this is why we love Sydney. People on the right

710
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 5: are saying, what the hell are you talking about. She's

711
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 5: just super good looking and wearing an all American brand,

712
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 5: which is where I think I fall into. But I

713
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 5: don't think if this was if this was intentional Sydney's,

714
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 5: Sweeney's people got taken for a ride. I have a

715
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 5: hard time believing that somebody like Sidney Sweeney would intentionally

716
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 5: be part of a covert white supremacy campaign to generate clicks.

717
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 5: And I just, I genuinely don't think there's any like

718
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 5: I get what you're saying about the buzz that you

719
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 5: can generate by doing a sort of like intentional Kendall

720
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 5: Jenner Pepsi's situation, But I also don't think that it

721
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 5: would be to any brand they would say the cost

722
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 5: benefit analysis of being linked in with literal eugenesis.

723
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 6: Well premise.

724
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the the flaw in your analysis

725
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: is that it ignores how sort of mainstreamed this stuff

726
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: has become. I mean you've literally got you have a

727
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 2: you know, a town, an all white town being founded

728
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 2: in Arkansas as we speak, where they explicitly say it's

729
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: whites only, and we believe we have freedom of association

730
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 2: and so we can keep black and brown people out.

731
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 6: We have s Miller fringe.

732
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 4: Steven Miller's not the French Miller.

733
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 2: Stevin Miller is not the fringe. Who is you know,

734
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: running vast portfolio in the government, including you know, very

735
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: like eugenics inspired immigration policy.

736
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 6: Who and who but who?

737
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 2: Trump himself says like, this guy is basically a white nationalist.

738
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 2: I mean he's you know, that's that's who he is.

739
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty hard to deny that's who he is.

740
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 2: And then you've got you know, this isn't emblematic of

741
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 2: like every young Republican, but you have this very increasingly

742
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 2: like empowered and influential fringe that you know, are in

743
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: like the Raper movement and are the type of people

744
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 2: who went on Jubilee and probably like declared himself a

745
00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: fascist and whatever. You have the New York Times getting

746
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,760
Speaker 2: scoops from this race. IQ you know online race IQ dude.

747
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 4: So this is.

748
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 6: Quite mainstreamed in the culture.

749
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 2: And you know, it like for me, harkens back a

750
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: little bit to the obviously neither of us were alive

751
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 2: at this time, but the way that Madison Avenue glommed

752
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 2: onto the like sixties counterculture movement and appropriated that to

753
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 2: sell coke and mainstream brands, et cetera. And so you know,

754
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 2: I don't think it takes a rocket scientist for a

755
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 2: cynical ad ezac who's just out there looking, Okay, how

756
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 2: can we get attention to our brand and sell some

757
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: blue jeens to go, well, this is the thing that's

758
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 2: out there in the culture right now. This is the

759
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 2: thing that's like the you know, transgressive hot button to

760
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 2: push to stoke controversy. And I just don't know why

761
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 2: else you're talking about genetics in a blue gene ad

762
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: if you're not intentionally trying to push that button. And

763
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: to the point about Sydney herself, like I don't know,

764
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't have any like particular grudge about

765
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: against Sydney Sweeney. I know there was like a lot

766
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 2: of discussion about her boobs on SNL or something that

767
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 2: I never really totally understood, but we can put you know,

768
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 2: one of the people who was involved in this ad

769
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 2: campaign posted delighted in the success of the campaign. She says, specifically,

770
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: during a Zoom call with Sidney, we asked the question,

771
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 2: how far do you want to push it? With that hesitation,

772
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: she smirked and said, let's push it.

773
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 6: I'm game.

774
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: Our response challenge accepted. So in any case, you know,

775
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 2: I don't think it's like crazy to imagine that. She

776
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: also was like, yeah, sure, let's play into this controversy

777
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 2: and create a lot of attention for ourselves. And you know,

778
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 2: it'll be great for me, it'll be great for the company.

779
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 2: The stock price is up, et cetera. So that's to me,

780
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 2: like pretty clearly what's going on here. And I don't,

781
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 2: you know, as someone who is very opposed to eugenics

782
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 2: and very disturbed by its mainstreaming and how increasingly like

783
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 2: openly accepted and disgusted is et cetera, Like, I'm not

784
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: sure what the right way is to react to something

785
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: like this that does, in my view, intentionally try to

786
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 2: like play with those themes, because what they wanted is

787
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 2: the attention of the controversy. But then are you just

788
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 2: supposed to like not say anything. When these sorts of

789
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: things and themes are being mainstreamed in the culture, it's

790
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 2: to me, it's like a catch twenty two.

791
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 5: So I interpreted the Sidney Sweeney has great genes LinkedIn

792
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 5: posts we're really going deep on this that we just

793
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 5: had up on the screen, this would be my counterpoint.

794
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 5: I interpreted that as Sidney Sweeney's sort of controversy for

795
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 5: a long time has been whether or not she's mid,

796
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 5: which is just a ridiculous controversy. She's beautiful, but the

797
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 5: like that's been the thing about Sidney Sweeney that everybody's like, oh,

798
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 5: she's mid. People like her because she has you know,

799
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 5: fill in the blank. And that's where you know, the

800
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 5: entire appeal of Sidney Sweeney is wrapped up in And

801
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 5: so I think what they're talking about when they say

802
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 5: they're kind of going down the hammers panning down Sidney

803
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 5: Sweeney's full body, is her saying like, that's why they're

804
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 5: talking about genes in a j E.

805
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 4: A ns ad is like, Sidney Sweeney is actually.

806
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 5: Pretty pretty hot, and Sidney Sweeney is willing to take

807
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 5: you up on this conversation about whether or not, she's

808
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 5: mid and she's willing to just like kind of bear

809
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 5: it all even if she's clad in gene So that's

810
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 5: my interpretation of what they say they're like being quote

811
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 5: unquote cheeky about in the ad, is that I still

812
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 5: think that a mainstream brand wanting to be affiliated with

813
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 5: white supremacy or eugenicism. As much as I do share

814
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 5: your concerns about seeing people like Nick Quentas go massively

815
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 5: viral and have whatever pole he has with gen Z,

816
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 5: as much as I genuinely share those concerns and also

817
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 5: share the concerns about eugenicism when you look at what's

818
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 5: happened and this is probably something that we disagree on,

819
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 5: but if you look at what's happened in places like Iceland,

820
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 5: for example, where they use new you know, testing technology

821
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 5: on unborn kids and basically get rid of down syndrome, Like,

822
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 5: I actually think that eugenics is a serious question that

823
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 5: confronts US as a society right now. But yeah, I mean, yeah,

824
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 5: like I don't disagree with that, I share that, I

825
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 5: still just think it's far fetched that a mainstream American

826
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:23,439
Speaker 5: brand would want to eagerly affiliate itself, even if it's

827
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 5: just to create buzz with white supremacy or eugenics or

828
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 5: neo Nazism, as some people have said.

829
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 4: They have the eagle in the brand.

830
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 5: And to you know, be talking intentionally about Aran Jenes

831
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 5: in an ad goes right along with the quote American

832
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 5: eagle in their title and logo.

833
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 6: I just think it's all very far.

834
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 2: I take it that far, okay, just to be clear,

835
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 2: that didn't even occur to me, But now I'm going

836
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 2: to think about it now. I mean, look at I mean,

837
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 2: paid advertising campaigns don't really get you very far these

838
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 2: days because people can click off, you can fast forward

839
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 2: through your watching things. I mean, it's just like very

840
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 2: hard to get people to pay attention to your brand.

841
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: So what better to get you attention than a beautiful

842
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 2: woman plus a little race?

843
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 7: I Q.

844
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 2: Controversy with plausible deniability, like they're never gonna come, oh yeah,

845
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 2: we were like flirting with you, Jeda, They're never going

846
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,240
Speaker 2: to say that. But their stock price went up because

847
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:18,399
Speaker 2: of that controversy.

848
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 4: I think, because.

849
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 2: Why is anyone talking about Sidney Sweeney's ad. It's only

850
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 2: because I mean, you know, yes, she's had star power,

851
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 2: et cetera. But the reason it got so much attention

852
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 2: is because of exactly this controversy, which these are not

853
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 2: stupid people, like I don't know, they you know, they

854
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 2: knew what they were doing with this, Come on, they knew.

855
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 5: I don't know.

856
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 4: I mean, I still just think you need even.

857
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 6: Your explanation too.

858
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 2: By the way, that this is like a rebuttal to

859
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 2: the idea that she's mid the way she's if that's really,

860
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 2: which I think that's a stretch, but if that's really

861
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 2: her argument is like, no, I'm not mid because I'm

862
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 2: of good genetic stock.

863
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 6: Like even that is disturbing.

864
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 4: It's weird.

865
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, like that's what I just think. It's so weird, and.

866
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 2: I'm yeah, I mean, it's not weird if you realize

867
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 2: that what they're doing is intentionally touching on something that

868
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: is again justifiably like Foreboden, I mean, and you know,

869
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 2: has been for a long time pushed out the mainstream

870
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 2: and is now like back being mainstream.

871
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 5: If you look at public polling, like across the board,

872
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 5: the American people are very anti racist, maybe not in

873
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 5: the candy sense, but like race relations in the United

874
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 5: States have come remarkably far, and it's not as though

875
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 5: the American public. While there are some people on the

876
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 5: fringes that may be energized by Flints and whomever else,

877
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 5: it doesn't behoove a major brand, like you don't have

878
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 5: to even be a smart marketing executive.

879
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 6: But it is behooving them. They are behooved.

880
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 5: And I don't think people are watching the ad. But

881
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 5: your point is that they're being behooved by the controversy

882
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 5: created by the ad. And it's not that American Eagle

883
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 5: supports eugenics and white supremacy.

884
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 6: Oh, that they got attention.

885
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 2: That no, no publicity is bad publicity. I mean, this

886
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: is the secret of Donald Trump's success and his realization

887
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 2: that like I mean he even said this about like

888
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 2: Doug Bergram when he picked him for Secretary of the Interiors,

889
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 2: Like yeah, he just doesn't you know, he's not controversial

890
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 2: enough so he can't get attention.

891
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 6: This is the attention economy.

892
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 2: The way to get attention isn't to just like, you know,

893
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 2: have another ad with the beautiful women women. There are

894
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 2: a million other ads that have other similar like beautiful stars.

895
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 2: The way to get attention is to spark a conversation.

896
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 2: We're not covering the Beyonce Levi's ad. Are we No,

897
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,760
Speaker 2: we're covering this one because they played with race science

898
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 2: and eugenics, and that's why we're talking about it.

899
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 5: I think they played with it. I think intentionally they

900
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 5: played with This is where we disagree. I think they

901
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 5: played with The entire pun was about Sidney Sweeney being

902
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 5: hot or not, and that's when they say they're going

903
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 5: she said she wants to go far. It's that and

904
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 5: I think it was like obviously a very strange ad,

905
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 5: but their stock is going up because people like the ad,

906
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 5: like Sidney Sweeney and the jeans. They look great and

907
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 5: American Eagle is a sendate because they have a young

908
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 5: star like Sydney Sweeney repping them. It used to be

909
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 5: by the way Dawson's Creek. I think they outfitted everybody

910
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 5: on on Dawson's Creek. Yeah, I'm pretty sure a while

911
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 5: they did. But anyways, well, they have a history of

912
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 5: sort of partnering with I mean, for a young brand

913
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 5: like that, we're not going to agree in this, Crystal.

914
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 7: Well.

915
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 2: I'm just my last piece is I will say even

916
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: your explanation to be is very eugenicsy, that you would

917
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 2: be like, I am hot because I come from the right,

918
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 2: genetic stock is.

919
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 5: But that is I mean, like people are hot because

920
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 5: of their like that either like people. But to be fair,

921
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 5: like it's like the science of whether or not people

922
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 5: are attractive to other people comes down to facial symmetry,

923
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 5: which is genetic.

924
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't like any like.

925
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,959
Speaker 5: I hope we don't start tinkering with genetics.

926
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 2: I like, it's a weird thing to say. That's a

927
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 2: weird thing to say. Is like, no, I can, I

928
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,240
Speaker 2: can prove genetically, but I'm.

929
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 4: I'm not mid you because that.

930
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 6: Is but that makes sense, but.

931
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: I know I do.

932
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 5: I actually think that helps my argument because on social

933
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 5: media there have been deep, deep analyzes done on Sidney

934
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 5: Sweetey's like facial symmetry over the years. So yeah, I mean,

935
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 5: I like people have literally been debating this, which is

936
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 5: completely insane. Maybe that's our next debate is Sydney Sidney

937
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 5: Sweeney mid but maybe we agree on that we don't

938
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 5: even have that beata.

939
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 4: I don't think.

940
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 2: I don't think she's not mid. Like, I'm actually disgusted

941
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 2: by this. It's like such a common thing, not just

942
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 2: with Sidney Sweeney, of taking some like absolutely flawlessly gorgeous

943
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 2: woman and then picking one photo of her where like

944
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 2: she's not at her best and being like she I

945
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 2: don't even forget it. She's so mid it's like, you know,

946
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 2: fuck off. Like she's a beautiful woman, like just stop,

947
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 2: just stop. And it's always like some guy who looks terrible,

948
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 2: you know, and is like overweight and could never have

949
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 2: a prayer of being with this woman who's posting this

950
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: sort of so yeah, that that particular conversation, whether it's

951
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 2: Sidney Sweeney or many other beautiful women, is kind of

952
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: disgusting to me.

953
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 5: This is what happens when Ryan goes on vacation for

954
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 5: a week to take over the show with debate of right,

955
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 5: you know who would have been really excited for this

956
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 5: debate when Sager would have loved this well.

957
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 2: I did debate with Sager off off air on this.

958
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 2: Of course he thinks my view is ridiculous. But there

959
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 2: you go.

960
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:26,240
Speaker 6: Many in many cases.

961
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 5: Many such cases. We can continue this conversation on Friday.

962
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 5: Of course, Sager will be back in with Crystal tomorrow.

963
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 4: Thanks everyone for tuning in.

964
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 5: As a reminder, if you want to get those interviews,

965
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 5: like the great conversation that Sager and Crystal had with

966
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 5: Senator Lissa Slotkin yesterday, headlines all over the world.

967
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:47,760
Speaker 4: You can become a member.

968
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 5: If you want to help support the work that makes

969
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 5: those interviews possible, you can become a member of at

970
00:52:52,320 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 5: breakingpoints dot com