1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: the fundamentals are there for inflation? I think for a 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: why we don't necessarily need free money and zero interest 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: rates forever. Washington at this point doesn't want to add 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: regulation to bitcoin. Bloomberg Sound on the insiders, the influencers, 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: the insiders. Let's look at the student loan debt, which 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: is absolutely staggered. In my view, you can't spend enough 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 1: on infrastructure. Given the size of fiscal stimulus we've already seen, 9 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: this seems like a drop in the bucket. Schloomberg Sound 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio Live from the 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: Nation's Capital, where the future of Afghanistan is coming into 12 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: focus for better or worse, as the Biden administration confirms 13 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: the withdrawal of remaining US troops, ending the longest war 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: in American history. Coming up, we'll talk about what happens next, 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: the resurgence of the Taliban, the risk of a civil 16 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: war in Afghanistan, and possible threats to America with Congressman 17 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: and Army veteran Warren Davidson, Republican from Ohio, along with 18 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeannie she and Zano and Rick Davis. Later, 19 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: we'll talk to Bloomberg opinion columnist Eli Lake about all this. 20 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: We do have a lot to talk about. Thank you 21 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: for spending part of your Thursday with us here on 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg sound On. Who could have imagined in October of 23 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: two thousand one that we would still be in Afghanistan. 24 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: Our military mission Afghanistan will conclude on August thirty one. 25 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: The draw down is proceeding in a secure, in orderly way, 26 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: prioritizing the safety of our troops as they depart. President 27 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: Biden speaking in the East Room of the White House. 28 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 1: You heard it live on Bloomberg speaking to the draw 29 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: down of American troops in America's longest war in the 30 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: United States. Did what we want to do in Afghanistan 31 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: to get the terrorists to attack us in nine eleven 32 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: and deliver justice to a im been laden and a 33 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: degrade the terrorist threat, to keep Afghanistan from becoming a 34 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: base from which attacks could be continued against the United States. 35 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: We achieved those objectives. That's where we went. We achieved 36 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: those objectives. Well, the White House says this is not 37 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: a mission accomplished. Moment came up in the briefing with 38 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: Press Secretary Jen Psaki, even before the President spoke in 39 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: terms of plans for the end for our men and 40 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: women coming back. I don't have anything to preview, but 41 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 1: we don't. We're not going to have a mission accomplished 42 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: moment in this regard. It's a twenty year um war 43 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: that has not been one militarily. We are proud of 44 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 1: the men and women who have served. Incredibly grateful came 45 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: up as well. As I mentioned towards the end of 46 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: Joe Biden's news conference, there was no mission accomplished. The 47 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,079 Speaker 1: mission was accomplished in that we get a scot A 48 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: summon in Lawden and terrorism is not emanating from that 49 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: part of the world. Let's get to the panel to 50 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: start with insights from Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie she and 51 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 1: Zano and Rick Davis. Thanks to both of you for 52 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: being here. Genie, is President Biden doing the right thing 53 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: by ending this mission next month? You know, it's so 54 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: hard to say whether it is the right decision he made. 55 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: I think an impassioned plea today and one that I 56 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: think he has been making for some time that we 57 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: just have no choice either way. This was going to 58 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: be a mess. Either we continue to stay there and 59 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: as the President said, rightly so today he passes this 60 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: mess on to a fifth president as you mentioned, twenty 61 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: years later, or we pull out, and he is hoping 62 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: in the pull out there isn't a humanitarian disaster. He's 63 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: banking a lot on the Afghan troops, but that is 64 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: something that he cannot control, and so he is making, 65 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: I think, a a rational decision. It's one a lot 66 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: of his predecessors have wanted to make. But it is 67 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: not going to be a good ending. This is the 68 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: history of the United States and these limited wars, and 69 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: it's not going to get better this time around. Rick Davis, 70 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: you spent a lot of time talking about this conflict 71 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: and in fact advising of Senator John McCain throughout the 72 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: middle of this was a presidential campaign, of course, so 73 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: you hear this line a lot. You know, the the 74 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: young kids who are going over there, many of them 75 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: weren't alive. Never mind, remember nine eleven is President Biden. 76 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: Is the Biden administration doing the right thing by following 77 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: through on these withdrawal plans. Well, I can reflect certainly 78 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: what John McCain was saying during the campaign and wait 79 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: and in the tenure subsequent to that, and and that 80 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: was that Afghanistan is in our strategic interests and it's 81 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: in a rough neighborhood Russia, China, Pakistan. I can't imagine 82 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: right now anybody doesn't think that's a hotspot in our 83 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: relations around the world. And and the fact is, um, 84 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: you know, uh, Sarah McCain took a point of view 85 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: that said there was a way to secure our troops 86 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: there lends stability to the nation, not have to be 87 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: involved in a direct fight of the war, but to 88 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: have our strategic interests protected. And I think that's where 89 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: he would be disappointed with this policy, because we're trying 90 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: to have our strategic interests protected without actually doing anything 91 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: on the ground to protect them. Rick and Genie standby. 92 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: We'll be talking to Rick and Genie throughout the hour. 93 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: But I want to bring in the Congressman Warren Davidson, 94 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: Republican from Ohio, former Army ranger and former Screaming Eagle, 95 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: an officer in the legendary hundred and first Airborne Welcome 96 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: Congressman to Bloomberg sound On. Thanks for having me and 97 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: satiate her in the top well, I'll tell you what, 98 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: As someone who has served in the armed forces, I 99 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: wonder how this feels to you today to see the 100 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: end of the line at the end of August. Is 101 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: the president doing the right thing to follow the Trump 102 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: administration's plan is to withdraw here or should there be 103 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: a longer term, if not permanent base in Afghanistan. Well, personally, 104 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: I've been in favor of of ending the mission in 105 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: Afghanistan for around fifteen years. Uh. I think the exits 106 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: long overdue. Frankly, when we did as the United States 107 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,679 Speaker 1: did kill Osama bin Laden, that's been a decade ago, 108 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: and they killed him in in Pakistan, so it was 109 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: certainly easier to base the operation out of Afghanistan. So 110 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: the base basing in Afghanistan, you know, has merit, some 111 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: presents there. Bogrum is a hard place to defend, and 112 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: the fact of the matters the mission there going on 113 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: as long as it has doesn't have a viable agis strategy. 114 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: So there hasn't been a coherent strategy for the presence 115 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: there for for a really long time. So I think 116 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: it's absolutely the right decision to end this endless war. 117 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about our allies in Afghanistan, 118 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: the interpreters, the drivers, and then many others who put 119 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: their lives on the line. You truly risk their lives 120 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: to help Americans. President Biden says, we will do right 121 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: by their. Message to those women and men is clear. 122 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: There is a home for you in the United States 123 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: if you so choose, and we will stand with you, 124 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: just as you stood with us. The congressman. The administration 125 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: says it is now offering to fly them out of Afghanistan, 126 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: in fact, evacuate us, as many, I believe, including yourself, 127 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: have called for, but not to The US President says 128 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: Congress would need to change the law to allow them 129 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: to come here. Now do you want that to happen. 130 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: I do want that to happen. I think that's something 131 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: that we absolutely owe the people that risk their lives 132 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: to help us. Uh, you know, help us defend our 133 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: country and freekly try to make things better there for us. 134 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: They helped us accomplish our mission. Uh, they're a great 135 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: peril to themselves and their families. And uh, you know, 136 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: Jason Crowe's taking the lead. He's also a former army ranger, 137 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: Democrat from Colorado, and he's the lead sponsor of a 138 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: bill that we passed on suspension that would make it 139 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: so the medical waivers could be done, they could get 140 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: into the United States to stuff to do all the 141 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: same testing that they work for. UH. And then there's 142 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: a second bill that we're pushing that would actually raise 143 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: the cap so that we can accommodate them and their 144 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: families getting into the United States. I mean, if there 145 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: are refugees were going to help, and there are who 146 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: would be at the front of the line ahead of 147 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: these people who felt us. Do you worry that not 148 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: everyone will take the offer of the presidents and only 149 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: about half have accepted a ride out of the country. 150 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: To get on an airplane and get out of Afghanistan, 151 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: leaving your homeland would be a hard decision, and I 152 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: respect the people that want to stand fight. We spent 153 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: twenty years trying to help the Afghan government birth their nation. 154 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you look at the things that we've done 155 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: to try to help them. Thankfully, there are people that 156 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: want to remain and make Afghanistan a great place. The 157 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: vision that the Taliban has for Afghanistan should concern us 158 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,359 Speaker 1: all um. You know, there is a real risk that 159 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: that that they will become once again become a sanctuary 160 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: for terrorism, and our intelligence assets have to remain in 161 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: place to be able to know that and detective. We 162 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: can't allow there to be any sanctuary for terror that's 163 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: going to strike America or our allies anywhere in the world. 164 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: I just don't think we have to occupy Afghanistan for 165 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: another twenty years to keep making that happen. Just like 166 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: we were able to defeat ISIS by not you know, 167 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: putting a large enduring presence in Syria and uh, you know, 168 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: Western Iraq, we were able to defeat them and take 169 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: all their terrain away without building this big basing presence 170 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: there and as a much smarter approach to to defeating 171 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: an enemy. Congressmen, I know there are not a lot 172 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: of veterans in Congress, but I wonder as I know 173 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: that there is a collection of military veterans, and in 174 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: some cases combat veterans have very strong feelings about this, 175 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: and in fact vote on legislation our veterans and united 176 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: to your view when it comes to the withdrawal and 177 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: removing the interpreters effectively, I think veterans are fairly united. 178 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: I mean, there may be a couple of dissenters on 179 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 1: on taking care of the interpreters. I think overwhelmingly, uh, 180 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: you know, veterans support taking care of the interpreters. We 181 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: are divided in terms of what kind of presence we 182 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: should have an Afghanistan. Frankly, a number of the veterans 183 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: are kind of you know, neo conservative, kind of John McCain, uh, 184 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, Liz Cheney into the spectrum where you know, 185 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: there there for more wars and more places. I mean, 186 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: there was a point in time where there were people 187 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: like Lindsay Graham and John McCain calling for you know, 188 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: armored armored brigades to be occupying Syria. Thankfully, the Trump 189 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: administration resisted some of those temptations, as did the Obama administration, 190 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: though there were calls for them. So, you know, there 191 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: there are veterans on all sides of some of these issues. 192 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: But I think the the consensus is clear, really there 193 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: that this mission is long overdue to be called to 194 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: an end. And I hope we can move forward in 195 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: a more focused way to protect America's interest and we 196 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: can do it with more economy of force. And that's 197 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: exactly what we did when we defeated ISIS and Congressman 198 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: Waren Davidson, a Republican from Ohio, former Army ranger, former 199 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: officer in the legendary hundred and first Airborne. I want 200 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us on an important 201 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: day in our history, and thank you for your insight. Sir. 202 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: Thank you, sir. You're listening to Bloomberg you sound on 203 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for being with 204 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: us on Bloomberg sound On. President Biden is standing by 205 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: the plan to pull troops out of Afghanistan by August 206 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: thirty one. As we've been discussing this hour, you heard 207 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: the President speaking from the East Room making the argument 208 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: that the Afghan government and military can stand on their own. 209 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: They clearly have the capacity to sustain the government in place. 210 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: The question is will they generate the kind of cohesion 211 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: to do it. It's not a question of whether they 212 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: have the capacity. They have the capacity, they have the forces, 213 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: they have the equipment. We're joined now by Bloomberg opinion 214 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: columnist Eli Lake. It's great to have you back. Eli. 215 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: I haven't talked to you in a long time, and 216 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: I know that you have some pretty strong feelings about this. 217 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: I was looking at your column. I mentioned earlier that 218 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,719 Speaker 1: it was from hours ago. It's in fact from a 219 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: little bit longer ago. Biden offers false hope to sell Afghanistan, 220 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: surrender sanctions, the subhead and a Pakistan based counter terrorism 221 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: strategy you wrote, will not defeat the Taliban. But here 222 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: we go, Eli, the US is leaving. Did you expect 223 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: that to happen? Is it the wrong thing to do? Well? 224 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: I I don't know if I I suppose I was 225 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: hoping that he would change course, given the news we're 226 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: getting from the ground in Afghanistan as to Caliban are 227 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: steadily marching through the country and taking over what looks 228 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: to be about a third of the country's districts at 229 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: this point. And you know, we're seeing lots of stories 230 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: and it's hard to judge with the Afghan military basically 231 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: melting away, very reminiscent of the conditions under which isis 232 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: ran through Iraq um In. But the bigger problem here 233 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: is that, you know, I think that Biden completely uh 234 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: misstated I. I would say he's slandered American forces in 235 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: some ways by saying that it's not for us. And 236 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: I want to find this exact quote here he said, 237 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: you know, No, It's up to the people of Afghanistan 238 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: to decide the government they want, not us to impose 239 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: the government on them. That is a rewrite of history. 240 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 1: It's a lie. Um. The Afghans held a lawyer Jurga 241 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: after the US invasion in two thousand and one, in 242 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: which they agreed on a new constitutional system. There are 243 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: a regular election, however flawed and corrupt the central government 244 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 1: and Cobble has been. It has been an elected government 245 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,599 Speaker 1: and has made offers to the Taliban to participate in 246 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: elections since it was formed. The Taliban, on the other hand, 247 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,479 Speaker 1: has attacked all elections and seeks to impose it's clerical 248 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: fascism on the rest of the country. The choice that 249 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: the Afghans have made and continue to make is to 250 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: vote for their leaders, which is what they've been doing 251 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: um and Biden is sort of like, hey, guys, it's 252 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: up to you. And I think that's a really dangerous 253 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: lie uh to sort of put forward that. He doesn't 254 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: seem to understand that the choice isn't between two different 255 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: ways of organizing society. Really, it's about whether or not 256 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: Afghans should be able to be to choose their government 257 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: at all. And if the Taliban wins, they will be 258 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: the ones imposing a system on that country, not you know, 259 00:14:58,440 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: while they had a war and this is how it 260 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: turned out. And I guess that's fine. If he wants 261 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: to say that we've been there too long, it's too expensive, 262 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,479 Speaker 1: we have other things to do. There will be risky, 263 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: it won't be pretty. I would have respected that. But 264 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: he's trying to make it seem like we're just another empire, 265 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: that we were just trying to impose, you know, our 266 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: way of doing things on these other people. And I 267 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: just I can't. I can't stand for it. I mean, 268 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: it's not true. Well I this came up following his 269 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: prepared remarks. One of the first questions the president got 270 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: on weather the Taliban taking over is inevitable. Here's how 271 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: it played out. The Taliban takeover of Afghanistan now inevitable. 272 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: It is not. Because you have the Afghan troops have 273 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: three hundred thousand well equipped as well as equipped as 274 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: any army in the world, and an air force against 275 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: something like seventy five thousand Taliban. It is not inevitable. 276 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: I know, that's a slightly different wrinkle on the point. 277 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: You were making a lie but the president is saying 278 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: that the people are protected by their own military. I 279 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: don't even I don't know first of all, the numbers 280 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: that he's giving, I don't know that that's necessarily true. 281 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: When he said they were like seventy five thousand members 282 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: of the the Taliban, it seems like they have a lot more. 283 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: There is I think some blame here and the way 284 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: the President made this decision. Remember he and he made 285 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: this announcement that the U. S would be out of 286 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: Afghanistan by September eleventh and April. That was in the 287 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: middle of an Afghan policy review. He initially put this 288 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: on the agreement that the Trump administration reached with the Taliban, 289 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: that the Taliban had breached in several ways, but most 290 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: importantly because there were documented uh the U N recorded 291 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: this that there were al Qaeda members, you know, groups 292 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: inside of Taliban territory and that was part of sort 293 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: of their agreement, which is that they were they were 294 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: not going to allow al Qaeda to continue to launch 295 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:03,119 Speaker 1: attacks and so forth. So the idea that the Afghan 296 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: military is doing fine, has he been reading the news. 297 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: There was just a group of unit of the Afghan 298 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: military that just defected to Tajikistan. They seem to be 299 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: melting away in every single one of these conflicts. There's 300 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: a panic right now in Cobble based on all a 301 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: lot of very good reporting out of Afghanistan UH and 302 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: the government over there, and he's saying no, no, no, 303 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: don't worry about it, and then later on says, I 304 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: don't think that we'll have a central government. I can't 305 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: imagine that there will be a single central government in Afghanistan. 306 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: So he's also acknowledging that there will be some sort 307 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: of Taliban statelet or something. And so far we've seen 308 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: zero plan on a practical level about what this over 309 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: the horizon capability is going to be to make sure 310 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: that terrorist groups do not reform another safe have in Afghanistan, 311 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: which is, you know, the most important thing. But I 312 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: mean again, we're out of town here, Eli Lake. I'm 313 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: very glad to hear your insights. You're hearing some strong 314 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: opinions on this program today about Afghanistan and the way forward, 315 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: just like you probably do in your own neighborhood, in 316 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: your own home. Possibly as we heard from President Biden 317 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: today that they are sticking with the plan withdraw all 318 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: American troops, the complete withdrawal by the end of next month, 319 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: August thirty one, the date circled on the calendar as 320 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: the President looked back on the last twenty years. We 321 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: went for two reasons. One two, bring some of them 322 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: laden to the gates of Hell. As I said at 323 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: the time. The second reason was to eliminate al Qaeda's 324 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: capacity to deal with more attacks in the United States 325 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: from that territory. We accomplished both of those objectives period. 326 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: That's what I believe from the beginning. And here we 327 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: are now with Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie she and Zano 328 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: and Rick Davis. Rick, we were talking about this at 329 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: the top of the hour here, and you were discussing, 330 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: of course, the opinions of your old boss, former Senator 331 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: John McCain. Eli Lake referred to John McCain and compared 332 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: him to UH Congresswoman Cheney, saying they were they were 333 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: neo conservatives looking for more wars in more places. You 334 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: suggested earlier that it was John McCain's hope to have 335 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: a longer term presence there, and I thought you should 336 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: react to that common. Yeah, I think that you've got 337 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: to look at it from the real politic point of view. 338 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, John McCain wasn't a neo con. 339 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: There were parts of the neo con point of view 340 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: that that that that embraced John McCain, but not the 341 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: other way around. I mean, John was a practical guy. 342 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: He looks at this region. He understood the need to 343 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: do exactly what Biden claimed victory on today, get rid 344 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: of to Sama bin Laden and and and and pushed 345 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: back on al Qaida. But he also thinks that it's 346 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: important in the u S strategic interests in that region 347 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: to have stability and and I think he would have 348 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: been aghast at the notion that we would not only 349 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: withdraw our troops without a um UH secure situation on 350 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: the ground, which nobody thinks exists, but also to abandon 351 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: a democracy that now has uh AN active and and flourishing. 352 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: Maybe flawed outcome, but it's a democracy. And our allies 353 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: Great Britain is stunned by the fact that we're walking out. 354 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: They've lost blood and treasure too, and and and and 355 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: they have a vested interests in the region, and without us, 356 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: it leaves them holding the bag. And if we are 357 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: truly trying to rebuild our allies around the world. You know, 358 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: how do we how do we rationalize this with uh? 359 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: With with them? Are they going to follow us in 360 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: the battle next time? We do have another strategic interests? 361 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: What should this look like? Genie? Uh you heard the 362 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,439 Speaker 1: congressman a little bit earlier. By the way, Republican Congressman 363 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: Army veteran, who supports this plan to withdraw. Congressman Davidson 364 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: also said that while we will not have a permanent 365 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: military presence there, we must have a a long term 366 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: intelligence gathering operation. How does that happen? And would we 367 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 1: be able to protect members of our intelligence community looking 368 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: for evidence of terror attacks or any other plot against 369 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: the U S there? You know, I think we will 370 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: be able to do that. But of course, the question 371 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: that the President was asked today about the capital falling, 372 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: which he said, you know, he does not see happening. 373 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: He has faith in the Afghan troops that the United 374 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: States has helped train and fund um not not everybody 375 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: feels the same way on that the President does, which 376 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: makes our task in terms of supporting them to the 377 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: extent that Congressman Davidson was talking about all that much 378 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: more difficult and so I think, you know, those are 379 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: going to be big considerations for this administration. And you know, 380 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: one thing the President said, um, and you just played 381 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: this clip, was we went in there to take out 382 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden and to eliminate the threat of al Qaeda. 383 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: He said specifically, we did not go into nation build. 384 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: And to me, this gets to the crux of the problem. 385 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: There was very little agreement when we went in there 386 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: on what our goal was. And this is exactly what 387 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: happens when the United States enters these conflicts without an 388 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: agreement on what we're doing this there. If those two 389 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: were truly our goals, we should have been out much 390 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: much earlier. And I think the president, you know, he 391 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: didn't start this war, but he's going to have to 392 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: explain our getting out of it, our exit. I think 393 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: he's going to have to deal with that question as 394 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: to why we were there in the first place and 395 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 1: his evolution. Rick on Uh, this whole thing. You go 396 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: back twenty years and Joe Biden sounds arguably different than 397 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: he does now when we talk about the this this 398 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: conclusive moment. There was no celebration today at the White House. Rick, 399 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: There was there was a mood in the briefing room 400 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: and later in the East room of being just very careful. 401 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: There was kind of a delicate approach here. There are 402 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: clearly had been meetings. And you can tell me what 403 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: you think about this, about the way this would play, 404 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: about the way it played for the Bush administration, about 405 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: the way it played for the Obama administration drawing withdrawing 406 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: troops from Iraq. Everyone was being very careful, to the 407 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: point of even saying, we accomplished our mission, but this 408 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: is not a mission accomplished moment. Yeah, I thought, actually 409 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: it was an interesting um allusion to George Bush's mission 410 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: accomplished moment to to say, look, that's not what we're 411 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 1: talking about here, and and and look, this is fraught 412 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: with risk. Uh. And I think the White House truly 413 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: understands that they know that they've made a strategic decision 414 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: to withdraw that may turn out to be the wrong decision. Um. 415 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: That was certainly the case in the early with raw 416 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: out of Iraq. We had to go back in. It 417 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: was harder to regain control of that country the second 418 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: time than it was the first time. Uh. And so 419 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: nobody wants to live through that. George Bush left office 420 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: as the most unpopular president in our modern lifetime, including 421 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: the unpopular Donald Trump, because he had to reprosecute the 422 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: war in Iraq by a large degree. And so they 423 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: know from history that this could backfire on them. And 424 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: I think that that that what they're hearing today is 425 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: probably more concerned about the strategy than anybody saying, Wow, 426 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: that away, good job and and not mission accomplished. God 427 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: knows what happened to that sign, Genie. That's right. Let's 428 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: hope we've got rid of it for good. And I 429 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 1: just wanted to put a plug in for anybody who 430 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: happens to be on the terminal that that hell brands. 431 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: And I say this not only because he's a professor 432 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: at another institution. Has a wonderful piece out on this 433 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: on the terminal called Afghanistan was a limited war with 434 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: a limited victory. Very smart piece. You're listening to Bloomberg 435 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Looks like 436 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: Google is going back to court. There's three dozen states 437 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: file of complaints in federal court in San Francisco says 438 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: Google used anti competitive tactics to squash the competition. As 439 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: I read on the terminal, forcing developers to use the 440 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: Google play Store to reach users, all while charging a 441 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: fat commission up to on app purchases. We get into 442 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: it with one of the Attorneys general behind the suite, 443 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: North Carolina's A G. Josh Stein. Welcome to Bloomberg. Sound on, 444 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: Thank you Joe. Parts of your complaint make Google sound 445 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: like something out of a mob movie. Paying off Samsung 446 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: to make sure it didn't develop a competing app store, 447 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: buying off developers to keep them from selling games on 448 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: other platforms after Epic took Fortnite for a ride? Am 449 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: I pushing this too far? Or is Google completely out 450 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: of bounds here? Well? Google is not within the lines 451 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 1: that we have laws to protect consumers and to ensure 452 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 1: that companies that have monopoly power don't abuse that power 453 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: to our collective detriment. And we allege that Google is 454 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: doing just that. You can't get a non Apple phone 455 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: that doesn't have Android is the phone operating system, and 456 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: then it favors its Google play Store. That's where everyone 457 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: goes to download apps on an Android iPhone. And when 458 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: you do that, more than not, by the way, all 459 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: downloads happened through the play Store. They require to use 460 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: their their payment system in which they charge thirty percent 461 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: when a typical payment processor is about three percent. So 462 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: every person who's paying for any app or any purchase 463 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: within an app and an app purchase is having to 464 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: pay the exorbitant rate. And so Google is using its 465 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: mono polly power unfairly to hurt people, hurt consumers, and 466 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: we want to get them back in compliance with the law. 467 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: Details of the payoffs that I mentioned were blacked out 468 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: in the complaints. You know a lot more than you're 469 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: even telling us. Correct. There are things that we got 470 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: through the discovery process that involved certain confidential business information 471 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: of Google that we couldn't put in the public complaint, 472 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: but that the judge will be able to read that. 473 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure that's true. What do you want to see 474 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: happen here? Is this about restitution or Google changing its behavior? 475 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: It's both, Joe. We want we want there to be competition. 476 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: We want because when there is competition, healthy competition, that's 477 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: when you and I and American consumers benefit. So we 478 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: want there to be competitive app stores. We want there 479 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: to certainly be competitive payment systems so that people can 480 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: don't have to waste all this money paying Google looking Uh, 481 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: the more money that can go to paying the developers 482 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: will actually go to increase innovation and have them come 483 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: up with new and better ideas that serve what it 484 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: is that we want. So we want changes to their 485 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: business practice, but we also want consumers who have been 486 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: paying too much for too long to get their money back, 487 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: and that would come in form of in the form 488 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: of an actual payment checks to consumers. Restitution very likely 489 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 1: could just come in the fact of a of a 490 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: charge back because people are paying for these charges through 491 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: typically their credit cards. So Google knows every single customer 492 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: who has paid their fee, and we could come up 493 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: with some way for them to just give folks credit. 494 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: So it should not be a paper intensive process. We're 495 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: talking with Attorney General from North Carolina, Josh Stein about 496 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: this lawsuit against Alphabet, the parent of Google. Well, but 497 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: it has to do with Google's own behavior, and we're 498 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: talking about over thirty states in the districts of Columbia 499 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: being involved here. I know you're a Democrat, Attorney General. 500 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: Are you concerned at all that the many lawsuits that 501 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: have been posed against Alphabet, including the one just yesterday 502 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: by Donald Trump, will confuse matters here? Uh, it won't 503 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: confuse the court and it may confuse the public. Uh, 504 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: the lawsuits of the president filed has absolutely nothing to 505 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: do with the case that we brought. In fact, we 506 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: had no idea he was bringing it, and we'd already 507 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: set in motion our efforts to file our lawsuit. And 508 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: when you look at what our cases those thirty seven 509 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: states in the district, it is completely bipartisan. The Leadership 510 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,959 Speaker 1: Group for Instances Utah and Tennessee, both of whom are 511 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: Republican a g LED, and New York and North Carolina, 512 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: both of them were Democratic ag LED. So this is 513 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: not a partisan issue at all. It is about enforcing 514 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: state and federal anti trust laws so that you and 515 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: I don't pay more than we should have. We heard 516 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: from Google on this yet. Yeah, they don't agree with us. 517 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: It'll shock you to know that they see the world differently. 518 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: But that's fine. That's why we have courts, and we're 519 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: going to aggressively litigate our case and we have confidence 520 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: that our what we're doing is the right thing for 521 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: the American public. How long of a timeline are we 522 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: looking at here in this case? Do you have a 523 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: sense of how long this will take? I really don't 524 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: these cases can go on for a long time. I 525 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: mean the Microsoft case anti trust case went on for 526 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: ten years. That was a nightmare, and we don't want 527 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: that here. Um. I sued Juel the E cigarette company, 528 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: and it took about a year and a half two 529 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: years to resolve, and frankly for a major case like that, uh, 530 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: that was I was pleased with that turnaround time. So 531 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: we'll see. It'll take as long as it takes. But 532 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: these companies, the big tech companies, are massive and they 533 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: have a growing uh role in our economy and our lives. 534 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: And look, I use Google. I think Google offers incredible 535 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: services and I want them to succeed as a business. 536 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: I simply want them to comply with the law and 537 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: stay within the rules of the road. North Carolina's Attorney General, 538 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: Josh Stemondy, thanks sir for being with us today on 539 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg sound On. Shares of alphabet Google stock down one 540 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: percent today, just over one three Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie 541 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: she and Zano Rick Davis back with us. Isn't it funny? Well, 542 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: it's not funny. We were just talking about a Google 543 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: lawsuit yesterday, and that's the one filed by Donald Trump. 544 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: But of course the company is already fighting lawsuits over 545 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: its search, over its digital ads Genie she and Zano. 546 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: This company could look different. I suspect by the end 547 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: of all this. But we're talking about a very massive, 548 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: very powerful company. And you know, the Attorney General got 549 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: to it. Google stuff works. That's why people like it. 550 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: That's right, And he said, and and and we all 551 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: can agree with this is that we all use it. 552 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: But the point is, as he and the other other 553 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: attorney generals have said that they wanted to be operating 554 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: within the law. And so you know, I think Google 555 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: could look different at the end of this, but this 556 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: could also be a long process. And as we consider 557 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: the president's you know, filing of the lawsuit that we 558 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: discussed yesterday, you know, I do hope that the public 559 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: isn't confusing the two I think the Attorney General made 560 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: a really important point this The state attorney generals are 561 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: a bipartisan group. This has nothing to do with partisan politics. 562 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: And so I think these two lawsuits hopefully don't get 563 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: conflated in people's minds. Well, that's the I guess the 564 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: concern here. And you know, Rick, these fang companies in 565 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: this case alphabet. They're they're bigger than some countries. They 566 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: have massive lobbying power here in Washington and around the country. 567 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: For that matters this lawsuit going anywhere. You know, this 568 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: lawsuit is going to get traction. You get thirty seven 569 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: state ages working together, that's a lot of momentum. And 570 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: and and the other thing is we talked about this yesterday, 571 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: you know, in in Donald Trump's efforts to try and 572 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: use the anxiety related to big tech to his advantage. Well, 573 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: these attorney generals have that winded. They're back to um. 574 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: People can't really put their finger on exactly why in 575 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: some instances they have anxiety about big tech, whether it's 576 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: privacy or charges, you know, monopolistic behavior. But it's definitely, uh, 577 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: a very difficult situation for these tech companies to be 578 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: fighting regulations on Capitol Hill, state regulations, A G s U, 579 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: former presidents, all of whom are going after their their 580 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: reputations and their finances and so long term conflict. It's 581 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: it's great politics because both parties, as he described your 582 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,719 Speaker 1: uh interview with the Attorney General Stein, I mean, you know, 583 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: they have as many Republicans on as soon as they 584 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: do Democrats. This is no longer a partisan divide. This 585 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: is actually what unites Republicans and Democrats, and in the 586 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: in the world that we live in, very few things 587 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: unite them, and so this one is not likely to 588 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: go away anytime soon, that's for sure. But also to 589 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: that end, Genie, if it's good politics, if everybody is 590 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 1: hating on the fang companies, the big guys, too big 591 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: to fail, it doesn't matter if you win, just file 592 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: the sup That's right, And we should note this is 593 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: the fourth state or federal antitrust lawsuit filed against this 594 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: company since late last year, since about the fall of 595 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: last year, so they are coming under increasing attack from 596 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: all fronts. As Rick mentioned, Democrats, Republicans, the states, the 597 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: federal government, so they are under attack. It is good politics, 598 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: but it's also something that I think Google as much 599 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: as they and I read what they responded to this, 600 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 1: they obviously don't agree, but there's something they're going to 601 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: have to take very seriously. Bloombergy Politics contributors Genie she 602 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: and Zano and Rick Davis. Always a pleasure to spend 603 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: some time with you guys. As we have gone from 604 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: we've covered quite a bit of ground here from Afghanistan 605 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: to alphabet. But that's uh, that's the way it goes 606 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: here in Washington. Thank you both for being with us 607 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: tomorrow on Bloomberg Sound on another special conversation, and looking 608 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: forward to speaking with Congressman Jake Aukin Class of Massachusetts. 609 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: He holds the seat that was once held by Congressman 610 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: Joe Kennedy and won that special election up there when 611 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 1: Kennedy went to run for the Senate and of course 612 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: did not win that race. But Congressman Auchincloss is a 613 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: marine served in Afghanistan, fought in Hellman Province, and I 614 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: suspect we'll have a lot to say about the conversation 615 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,359 Speaker 1: here of withdrawing troops. You know what else going on 616 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: this weekend. We're gonna talk about this tomorrow as well, 617 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: the big launch and our special coverage on Sunday Branson 618 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: to Space Virgin Galactic. We'll light the torch a little 619 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: bit early here tomorrow on Bloomberg Radio. I hope you'll 620 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: join us. I'm Joe Matthew I before to seeing you. 621 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: By the way, it'll be Friday, and this is Bloomberg