WEBVTT - Epstein Backlash Could Fracture Trump’s Coalition + Could AOC Become President? + Will Israel Divide Democrats 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:07.120 Hello, They're happy Thursday, and welcome to another episode of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.040 the Chuck Podcast. In a few minutes kind of an 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:14.360 I have an interesting conversation with Ben Smith. Some of 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.080 you may remember Ben Smith from the BuzzFeed days, some 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.960 of you may remember Ben Smith from Politico, but he's 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.960 also co founder of a fascinating still new, it's a 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:27.360 couple of years old now, but still fairly new publication 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:31.400 called Semaphore. Their goal being to market to the two 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:34.800 hundred million what is it? It's the excuse me more 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:39.040 than that, the I think seven hundred million English speaking 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:43.120 world is the goal. Two hundred million in the in 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.240 the in a certain demographic group of English speakers around 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:50.080 the world. But we talk a little bit of state 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:55.040 of the media, a little bit of this state of 0:00:55.640 --> 0:01:00.000 international media, a little bit. I find Semaphore extraordinarily helped 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:04.840 full in They have newsletters about every continent, the politics, 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:07.559 the business of different continents, and I think their daily 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.319 newsletter on Africa and the Gulf States has made me 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.600 a heck of a lot more informed than just reading 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:17.720 just trying to, you know, read the Economist or Financial 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:19.440 Times or New York Times to try to keep track 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:21.600 of that stuff. So I find it to be an 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.880 exceptional publication. I find Ben to be a fascinating He's 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.880 got a fascinating view of media in general. But he's 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:31.480 a New York City guy, and so we spent a 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.160 lot of time talking about Mom Donnie and the future 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:36.160 of that race, what does it mean for New York. 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:41.840 He is a New Yorker through and through, loves his city, 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.880 loves the history of the city. If you love New York, 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.240 you're going to love this conversation with him. Before I 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:48.560 get to it, I got a few other things I 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:51.080 want to get to including I want to tell you 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:54.040 about an event that I would just participated in yesterday. 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:57.880 It was about the local news crisis. That was an 0:01:57.920 --> 0:01:59.920 event in the state of Michigan. This one is about 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.920 the future of independence and whether there is a viable path. 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.040 And I moderated an interesting panel with the chair of 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:12.919 the Forward Party as well as sort of the chief 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:17.200 political analyst of the Independent Center, with the goal being 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.760 to try to build an infrastructure. And that's what's interesting there. 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.240 It's an infrastructure. The goal is to try to build 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:27.359 an infrastructure to help independent candidates when they get swamped 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.400 at the end by big money, either from Republican super 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:34.480 PACs or Democratic superpacks. So they're trying to create an ecosystem, 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:37.600 and you know the challenges of that, and I want 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:41.480 to speak to that in a minute. But it is, 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.400 it is, it is. It is the story that won't 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:50.120 go away. It is the piece of toilet paper that 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:56.600 is stuck on the bottom of Donald Trump's loafers, if 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:01.200 you will, or I guess is a Floorsheim's shoes or 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.240 whatever it is that he wears. I'm sure he doesn't 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:07.480 do Floorsheim And for those of you who know that brand, 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:14.200 enjoy the throwback to that. But he can't shake Epstein anywhere. 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:16.639 And what's interesting is in fact that this independent event 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.200 there's a few former members of Congress there. I was 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:22.519 talking with Red Ribbel, a former Republican Member of Congress 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:26.880 from Wisconsin who has basically left the Republican Party, and 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.480 he was speaking to some current members and he wasn't 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:34.160 naming names, but he was telling me about how important 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:39.400 this Epstein issue is to constituents in the very conservative districts. 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.520 So what this really is so in sort of like 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:49.040 reality based land, Epstein is a curiosity of a story. 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.640 But in some of the deep red districts and in 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.880 the deep and I've told you this, there's a piece 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:01.240 of the Republican base that has been he sent I 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.080 call it's a form of grooming of sorts. I know 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.040 that word is going to trigger some people, but they 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:10.160 have been conditioned is probably the better term to use. 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:11.640 Some of you are not going to like that I 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.760 use that, and so conditioned is a better word. But this, 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:20.480 these group of voters have been conditioned on the Epstein 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.560 story that it was sort of the tip of the spear. 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:24.720 It was sort of the way to prove that there 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.000 was there has been a deep state, that there is 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.039 this cupal of elites where the rules only apply to 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.560 them and not to anybody else. And I've told you 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:37.840 this before. The importance to these folks that believe in 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:43.800 this conspiracy, this conspiracy the elites, that there is a 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.920 there there to Epstein, and the idea that even Donald 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.800 Trump can't tell these people that there's a there there 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.279 because with this group of voters he did, they're not 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.800 his base. This is the piece of the base that 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.880 belongs more to the movement than it does Donald Trumps. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.880 We've learned there's sort of two parts of MAGA. Half 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:06.520 of it is Trump's and they'll do whatever they say. 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.839 And most of the elected Republicans, not all, but most 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.159 of the elected Republicans believe there is more to fear 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.440 from the Trump wing of MAGA than there is to 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.320 say from the q Andon wing of MEGA. And that's 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.120 really what this is. This is the q and On wing. 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.080 This is you know why Mike Flynn is pushing back. 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.799 You know, he's sort of the unofficial pope of the 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.599 remainder of q Andon since there is no que anymore. 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.359 Maybe there never was a que or maybe it is 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:38.240 Mike Flynn, right, I its or do I dun dun dunk. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.240 But what Epstein sort of represents for these voters is 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:46.520 sort of you know, truth are you are these lawmakers 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.320 going to keep their word? You know, it's like anything 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:52.760 right any elected official if you get caught breaking sort 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:56.560 of a core promise. You know, voters are used to 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.479 politicians lying all the time, and there's sort of an 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.679 there's almost like an accepted an acceptability of certain lies. 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:06.800 You know, going to balance the budget and they're full 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:08.960 of shit, They're not going to balance the budget. But well, 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.880 but as a voter, you'll weirdly accept that. But when 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.520 you do things like I'll give you an example of 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:21.920 a famous pledge, read my lips, no new taxes, right, 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.520 And there were some people that really took that to 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.760 the bank. And why did they take that to the bank. Well, 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:29.919 at that time, it's because there were conservatives that were 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.080 skeptical of George H. W. Bush and they thought, oh, 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:36.000 he's he's gonna you know, he's not a real small 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.839 government conservative. And so, by the way, those conservatives are right. 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.360 And you know, George H. W. Bush was a compromiser, 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.160 and he had a Democratic Congress, and he compromised, and yes, 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:49.920 they raised taxes. By the way, it set the country 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:54.560 up for an extraordinarily great run on the economy in 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.320 the nineties. Built Bill Clinton built upon it. It's not 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.559 like he undid what George HW. Bush did. He built 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.800 upon it. Another famous sort of pledge that really sort 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:09.039 of hurt that person was when Barack Obama said during 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.120 the debate about healthcare, if you like your plane, you 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.560 get to keep it. It got turned into the lie 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:17.680 of the year. Now, it never harmed Obama's politics personally, right, 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:21.480 it didn't cost him reelection. In twenty twelve, Part of 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.440 it is he never fully faced reelection when it was 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:26.960 fully clear that not everybody was going to be able 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:28.960 to keep their plan if they liked it. But it 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:31.600 did harm some Democrats. It was a huge It was 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.480 sort of one of those sort of and this is 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:39.720 where I think the Epstein promise falls for this core 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.880 group of voters. You promised you were going to release this. 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.920 We knew we couldn't trust the Democrats to release this, 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.960 but you could release this. And you guys promised to 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.640 release this. And you know, if you've spent any time 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:57.880 on X and you follow the Lincoln Project or the 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.640 podsave they have some or the Bulwark people, they have 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:04.280 found pretty much every single tweet that Donald Trump Junior 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.280 has said about release the Epstein files, every single tweet 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:14.000 that that Jade Vance has said to release the Epstein files. 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.840 And so for these voters, this was the equivalent of 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.600 read my lips, no new taxes, or if you like 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:26.640 your plane, you get to keep it and it is possible. 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.520 And I think this is this is this is what 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:31.840 Trump has to fear, is that it's reached that level. 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.160 And how do we know it's reached that level? Because 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.920 there are a handful of Republican members of Congress that 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.960 are so scared of this issue that they are willing 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:45.600 to break with Trump on it. Okay, And maybe some 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.800 of them are doing it out of principle. I think 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.000 most of them are breaking here out of they believe 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:55.640 their constituents that there there is a big enough constituency 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:59.240 in their district that this could cost them reelection, that 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.600 this could be into a primary problem. And so you're 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:07.000 seeing there is somewhere between twenty and forty Republicans who 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:11.280 are absolutely not going to walk the plank here with Trump. 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:13.760 They don't want to look like they're covering something up 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:18.120 with Trump. And you saw the movement and that subcommittee 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:22.480 in the House Oversight Committee, the fact that Mike Johnson 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:24.880 just sent him home. Part of this group I was 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:29.439 telling you about that. I was the panel panel before 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.600 the one I moderated, featured three former Republican members of Congress. 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:37.160 They did Joe Manchin did something as sort of a 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:39.800 Democrat who's moved to the independence, and then they had 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.480 sort of three Republican members of Congress. Was red Ribble. 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.360 It was Ken Buck from a Republican from a former 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:50.439 Republican from Colorado, and Mark Sandford, former Republican member of 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:52.640 Congress from South Carolina. And it was Mark Sandford that 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:57.240 said that he can't believe that. It just he was 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:01.000 remarking at how broken Congress is and how broken the 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.240 House is, the fact that Speaker Johnson had to shut 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:08.400 the place down for fear of members of Congress wanting 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:12.120 to work their will, like he was appalled at simply, hey, 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:14.600 you don't like it that there's two hundred and eighteen votes, 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.320 and the fact that because it is not on partisan 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.840 lines and it's on bipartisan lines, you're just shutting the 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:24.480 House down. And in some ways, you know, sort of 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.760 the point he was making is that actually is bringing 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.560 more attention to the issue, and what he thought was 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.400 an attempt to quell things actually probably made it worse 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:39.040 with those twenty to thirty Republican House members who really 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.800 believe this is an issue that moves their constituents. Look, 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.280 I'm not changing my opinion on whether I think this 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.679 is a shiny metal It is a shiny metal object 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.480 that has been sort of force fed upon the media ecosystem. 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:57.000 Thank you algorithms, Thank you hackers of the algorithms. Thank 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.920 you to those and the right, who broke the information ecosystem, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.679 and who trafficked in conspiracy theories and who allowed this 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:07.439 thing to get traction. This is why the phrases hoisted 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:09.720 on your own petard and you reap what you're sew 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:15.240 are sayings, because this is the world that many of 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.200 these folks helped create is now biting them in the 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:24.120 you know what. And here's the other problem with conspiracy theory. 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.120 There's no amount of information that gets released is going 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:31.520 to be believed. No amount maybe at this point and now, 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.559 of course, and this is you know, of course, the 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.640 more Trump denies sort of any sort of or tries 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:43.480 to detach himself, the more it becomes a newsworthy story 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.000 to go find out, well, what's he hiding? And the 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:48.240 more that he acts that he's hiding something, the more, 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.920 you know. I use this with my friend Chris Saliza, 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:53.280 and I'll share it with you guys. If you didn't 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:56.320 hear the podcast I did with Solissa earlier this week, 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:03.520 one of my favorite, there's a Harrison Ford gave what 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:05.760 I think is the best political advice I've ever heard 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.880 in a fictional movie. It's from Clear and Present Danger. 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.920 Harrison Ford plays Jack Ryan, and I forgive me if 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:14.640 some of you have heard me say this one before. 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.240 But there's this moment, and it's sort of a sidebar. 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.640 It has really nothing to do with the main part 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:24.120 of a plot in that movie. But you know, suddenly 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:26.520 Harrison Ford is in with the fictional president and the 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.440 president has some sort of his biggest donor has become 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.760 a political problem, and he's got an aid in the 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.040 Oval office telling the fictional president, Hey, you know what, 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.640 You've got to distance yourself from your pal here. You 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.680 know this is becoming a problem. And Harrison Ford, the 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.439 CIA guy, overhears and he goes, Oh, you shouldn't do that. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.760 If they ask you if he's a friend, you say no, 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.480 he's a close friend. And if they ask you if 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:54.680 he's a close friend, you say no, he's your best friend. 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.440 The point is he's like, don't give him something they 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:01.520 can disprove. Don't make your real life relationship the news story. 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.240 And Trump has made the relationship itself now a story. 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.920 Oh well, here's more wedding photos, and here's a birthday card, 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:14.000 and here's a poem, and here's a drawing. When all 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.800 Trump had this is one of those moments where if 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.480 he says I was close friends with the guy I 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.920 knew he was, I knew he liked him young, I 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.440 didn't know he liked him that young. We broke off 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.319 when he did this. He had a built in story. 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.120 But for whatever reason, he is afraid to admit he's 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.920 a member of the elite right. And we know at 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:39.040 the heart, at the core of the MAGA movement and 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:42.440 the populist movement in general, it's been to burn the 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.960 elites to own the Libs has really own the elites 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.880 right to those cultural whether it's the Ivy League institutions, 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:55.280 the mainstream media, etc. And Epstein is seen as sort 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:59.760 of one of the players of the elite now, you 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:04.720 know it is there's so Trump feels as if he 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:09.480 can't even admit that the relationship that we all know 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.400 he had with Epstein is something he just wants to 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.840 pretend didn't happen. I mean, one of the craziest things 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.040 that jad Vance has said in defense of Trump is 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.720 following the Wall Street Journal story about the infamous birthday 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:28.200 card or birthday poem, is Donald Trump doesn't speak that way, 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:33.280 And you're like, oh, son, you know this is every 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:34.720 once in a while you got to remind yourself. Jady 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:39.440 Vance is sort of a man child rights he's for 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:44.400 there's always this sort of weird immaturity that still sort 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.080 of hovers over him. And by the way, anybody in 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:49.600 their late thirties early forties, you know, when I was 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:51.800 in my late thirties or early forties, I still every 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.360 once in a while I enjoyed being an immature. You know, 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.920 you sort of you want to revert back to your twenties. 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:58.640 You want to be a snarky. You want to be 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.320 a snark, you want to be a smart ass. But 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.600 you're also a little bit uninformed. And sometimes either he 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.000 thinks that if he just plays the Jedi mind trick 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.360 with the base. Donald Trump never speaks this way. What 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:14.000 are you talking about? This is the lane. Donald Trump 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.320 is a guy from Queens. Trust me. He has spoken 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.960 that way and then some. So it is this, you know, 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:26.800 this is a this is a feeding frenzy that Donald Trump. 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.800 You know, he is both the arsonist and he has 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.440 poured gas on the fire. Right he lit the fire 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.560 in the first place. With the conspiratorial you know, there's 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.840 some deep state dark it's all these dark forces, and 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.480 he basically glombed on. You know, these this weird movement 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.080 existed before Trump was there, and he scooped him up. 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.840 And he loved how loyal they were to him online 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.640 and they became his online warriors. He loved that they 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.720 saw him as a messiah. They love and he he 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:59.960 didn't fully appreciate suddenly what some of the expectations would be. 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.240 And a big one is He's supposed to be the 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:08.680 one to prove this crazy conspiracy theory is true. And 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:10.920 now what is he doing. He is behaving like the 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.920 deep state. So look, it's interesting that John Thune is saying, 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.160 now this is a Mike Johnson problem. Look, eventually this 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.560 is maybe it won't be a problem in the Senate 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.440 because whatever the House votes to do, the Senate would 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:27.080 probably do ninety ten on this front because none of 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.480 them want to get caught up in this story. And 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.640 being in favor of transparency is always a better political 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.720 place to be, whether you're on the left or the right. 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.160 But by the way, I told you, the whole grand 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.280 jury shenanigans that Trump tried to create with Pam BONDI 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.880 was a sleight of hand because Trump knew darn well 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:45.360 that none of this stuff was ever going to get 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.480 released by a judge, And sure enough, a judge just 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.680 said that none of this grand jury testimony can be released. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:55.280 So it is you and you want to talk about 0:16:55.280 --> 0:17:01.760 a spectacle in September or October of Galleine Maxwell, right. 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:03.600 I mean, this is like right out of a movie. 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.720 You know, they're going to bring them in for a 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:10.560 congress bring her in for a congressional hearing. And there's 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.960 there's a good group of people there that seem pretty insistent. 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.639 This is what Comer wants, this is what timber Chit wants, 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:21.840 this is what Massey wants. I don't know if Trump's 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:23.320 going to be able to stop this now. The only 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:25.840 thing he now should wish is that he just sort 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.320 of ripped the band aid off a lot sooner, because 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.960 this becomes a lot more painful for him politically. If 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:37.960 this becomes the dominant issue when the calendar turns to September, 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.359 this can be a sort of summer silly season story 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.959 that he sort of struggles with but gets over, or 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:50.520 this could linger and stick with him. You know, I 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:52.320 can't help but notice there is a little bit of 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:57.960 a parallel. Remember things went Things looked like They were 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.560 going pretty well for Joe Biden in the first five 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:04.040 months of his presidency, and he got the checks out 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:06.320 the door, and he got the vaccines out the door. 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:10.560 In July fourth he declared independence from the virus. And 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.920 then at the end of that month the withdrawal from Afghanistan, 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.199 and it was a disaster. And then they were trying 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.480 really hard to make it seem as if it wasn't 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.520 their fault and they weren't owning the problem. And then 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.720 infestered and it festered, and I would argue it was 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.679 the beginning of the end of that presidency. Other things 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.879 became problematic, but he never politically recovered from this moment. 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:35.320 Trump's already in a hole politically, He's already in a 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.760 lower place than Joe Biden was right before the Afghanistan 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:43.040 withdrawal problem. And so Trump already has a substance problem 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.560 with the voters. They don't like how he's implemented the 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:52.800 deportation policy, The Big Beautiful Bill is unpopular. This economy 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.760 is not popular right now because housing's expensive, the cost 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:00.560 of living is still up, et cetera. And now there's 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:06.000 this Epstein issue, and so this is he is going 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:10.160 to wish he just dealt with it in July and August, 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.080 and that he let the house work its will, and 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.800 that he just kept following disclosures, because then it looks 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.439 like he's not afraid of any of this. But now 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.040 he seems to be afraid of disclosures. So now we 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.159 have the leaked we have leaked stories that say he 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.120 found out his name was in these files multiple times. 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:30.320 And you know, this is what happens when you have 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.520 this sort of He's got a bit of a god 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.840 complex that he's developed, particularly after going You know, in 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.840 his mind he's here, he's defeated two impeachments, he's been 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:45.440 indicted multiple times and somehow has not had to pay 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:52.239 any price. He survived one actual assassination attempt and a 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:58.439 second potential assassination attempt. So perhaps he, perhaps any of 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.640 us would have a god comp after going through everything 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.760 he went through. But he's got the god complex and 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:08.560 thinks he can just will anything away, wish anything away, 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:11.320 do the Jedi mind trick, and his base is going 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:16.399 to follow, and it hasn't worked. And now he's so 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:18.840 hanging out there and they don't know what to do, right. 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.840 They seem to be tied up because their most loyal 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:27.159 media audience, half of them want more information from him 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.639 and think Trump's hiding stuff from him, and they're not happy. 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.199 So he doesn't. He doesn't. He can't even use his 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:37.200 attack the mainstream media. They're out to get me, uh political, 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:41.040 you know, sort of uh uh whatever you want to 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:43.680 call it. You know that that version of his excuse 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.640 of trying a distraction trick is a little Jedi mind trick. 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.480 It's not and that one's not working. So he's if 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:54.680 he goes into September and this is an unresolved issue 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:59.760 and we have votes in the House, and I you know, 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.919 I don't think this economy is going to hold up 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.399 by the fall all of his tariff That the weight 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:07.800 of the tariffs are going to start to hit and 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.960 hit harder and harder as each month goes on, and 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:17.479 we'll have this spectacle of Epstein. I'd be shocked if 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.120 we get Gallainne Maxwell going. But at this point, if 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.120 you're Trump, you might be it's better off doing that 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:27.320 because if they look like they're afraid of her, they 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.200 look like they they don't want to hear from her. 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:35.000 At this point, it only may make the you know 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:41.520 the wounded fester even more so. Look, you know my 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.080 opinion about this story. It's a it's sort of a 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:46.800 story being forced upon us by the big tech companies. 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:50.520 And there's abserd algorithms that got abused by these right 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:54.840 wing conspiracy theorists. But here we are so enjoy being 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:59.280 hoisted on that petard on this front. But I can 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:01.000 tell you this, They've got to find a way to 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.119 rip the band aid off. They cannot. He waits till September. 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:09.359 He may splinter his party, and there is nothing that 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:14.199 accelerates lame duck status for a president. Then when the 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:16.960 party begins to realize there's always going to be a point, 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:18.840 and even Donald Trump is going to face this. And 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:20.720 I brought this up in my substack this week. The 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:24.639 question is when there's always a point in a second 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:29.440 term of a presidency where the party realizes that guy's 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.200 not going to be in charge anymore and you start 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:37.320 to see people peel away. Epstein is now allowing Republicans 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:42.240 to start peeling away and distancing themselves from Trump faster 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:46.120 than I think this White House was prepared for. And 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:49.959 this isn't something you get back once it starts a 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:56.280 drip becomes a leak, becomes a gusher. Don't believe me, 0:22:57.240 --> 0:22:59.960 Go take a look at how the first nine month 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:04.360 of George W. Bush's second term win. It started off 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:06.280 like it was going to go really well after his 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:11.840 impressive reelection, and when it started leaking, it suddenly became 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:17.280 a gusher. And then politically he was in the It 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:21.400 was a disaster, and the Republican Party abandoned ship as 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:25.800 fast as they could. That's what Donald Trump now has 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:30.439 to fear. If he's smart, believe it or not, he 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:32.680 should call up his buddy Mike Johnson since he's also 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:36.480 the you know, basically, Mike Johnson is whatever. His only speaker, 0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:41.680 only executes his his speakership, when when Donald Trump asked 0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:45.120 him to, he should be telling Speaker Johnson to get back, 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:48.200 go deal with this, release the files. Deal with it now, 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:50.560 deal with it in the August recess. You let this 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:53.840 come come in September. It's only going to make it worse. 0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:57.000 A few other notes I want to make before we 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:03.400 get to my Ben Smith conversation. First of all, thank 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:06.280 you Google. I made a big deal out of the 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:11.679 fact that Google's AI was incorrectly diagnosing me with Parkinson's disease. 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:16.600 I had an entire sort of obviously bringing it up. 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:22.000 Somebody's listening over there. And now if you search Chuck 0:24:22.040 --> 0:24:25.000 Todd illness, it says there is no evidence of this, 0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:27.200 and none of this is true, there's no confirmation, etc. 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:32.120 But this is a reminder of AI is only as 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:36.240 strong as the information that gets put into it, and 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:40.919 how these large language models are built. What these large 0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:45.399 language models train on matters a great deal, not a 0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.040 little bit. And the thing that I learned about Gemini 0:24:48.760 --> 0:24:52.800 versus chat GPT is interesting here. Chat GPT doesn't sort 0:24:52.800 --> 0:24:56.800 of scour, you know, unless you ask it to sort 0:24:56.840 --> 0:24:58.880 of scrape the internet over the last seventy two hours. 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:02.120 It doesn't automatically do that when searching for information. Google's 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:07.960 AI does it, and so frequency of something becomes factual 0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:11.480 rather than actually discerning to find out if something is 0:25:11.520 --> 0:25:14.040 true or not. So I hope this is a little 0:25:14.040 --> 0:25:15.840 bit of a reminder of folks that AI has got a 0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:19.600 long way to go, and that remember what AI is. 0:25:19.680 --> 0:25:23.200 It's just a really smart search engine. If you think 0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:25.760 it's there to help you to it's there to help 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.600 you solve problems, It's not there to solve problems for you. 0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:33.800 And I wish, I wish the you know, I understand 0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:36.800 why the people that lead AI want want, you know, 0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:39.679 want to be aspirational and oh no, this is you know, 0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:41.760 this is going to be like science fiction and you 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:45.399 know these these computer models are going to reason even 0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:49.480 their reasoning is a computer program based on probability. Okay, 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:54.199 so it is. I do think that the leaders in 0:25:54.240 --> 0:26:00.400 the AI community need to remind people what the large 0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:05.960 language models are not versus what they are. One other 0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:08.720 note from a previous episode that I wanted to bring 0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:12.639 up in my conversation with Lena Khan, we were talking 0:26:12.680 --> 0:26:15.359 about what are some of the things about AI, what 0:26:15.440 --> 0:26:18.520 are some of the regulatory concerns about AI? And she 0:26:18.600 --> 0:26:22.320 brought up something called surveillance pricing, which is this idea 0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:25.760 that you know, each of us are individually only going 0:26:25.800 --> 0:26:32.920 to see prices that that retailer thinks, using AI researching 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:38.280 us figures out what we can pay. And Lena brought 0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:42.720 up an interesting scenario. Let's say you have a death 0:26:42.760 --> 0:26:45.520 in your family and you've got to fly to Denver, Colorado, 0:26:46.480 --> 0:26:52.159 and the program knows knows enough about you and is 0:26:52.200 --> 0:26:54.280 able to do enough research to know you have to go. 0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:57.800 They know that you have this relative who died, and 0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:00.520 so they know you have to pay, have to get 0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:03.479 this ticket that you're going to see. They know that 0:27:03.520 --> 0:27:05.800 you might pay not quite any price, but close to 0:27:05.840 --> 0:27:11.320 any price. Well, lo and behold. What did Delta Airlines 0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:14.840 announced earlier this week? Delta Airlines? And I give them 0:27:14.960 --> 0:27:17.960 credit for being forthcoming about this, but they said in 0:27:18.000 --> 0:27:23.280 their earnings call that going forward, twenty percent of their 0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:27.800 fares may be set by basically AI, which means it's 0:27:27.840 --> 0:27:30.119 trying to figure out what is it how much I 0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:32.520 will pay versus how much someone else will pay. I 0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:36.760 don't see how that is anything other than predatory and discriminatory. 0:27:38.320 --> 0:27:43.359 I assume that's why we have consumer protections as something 0:27:43.359 --> 0:27:46.200 that we expect our government to do. But the fact 0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:51.000 that we are not yet, we don't yet realize that 0:27:51.080 --> 0:27:54.159 this is probably something that needs to be regulated and controlled. 0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:58.360 That's a bit scary. But keep that in mind. Keep 0:27:58.400 --> 0:28:01.120 that in mind. I said, I give Delta. I think 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:04.080 Delta by the way of the three big airlines. I 0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:05.960 wish they flew to more cities that I fly to. 0:28:06.359 --> 0:28:09.119 That's all I'm going to say. The fact that every 0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:12.040 Delta experience I have is so much better than the 0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:14.400 other two major airlines that I end up flying more frequently, 0:28:14.920 --> 0:28:17.520 so I give kudos. It's a In fact, I was 0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:21.040 on a Delta flight today and the pilot came out 0:28:21.119 --> 0:28:25.600 to thank to thank those I happen to be sitting 0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:28.480 in a frequent flyer section, if you will. I'll just 0:28:28.560 --> 0:28:32.160 leave it at that and think, you know, appreciated the business. 0:28:32.160 --> 0:28:34.000 And da da da dah went through this stuff. I've 0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:36.200 never had that an American. I've never had that in 0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:38.960 United It was you know, plus you throw in the 0:28:38.960 --> 0:28:40.880 fact that it's free Wi Fi and Delta. It's not 0:28:40.960 --> 0:28:43.320 free Wi Fi and the other two they do a 0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:46.239 lot of things that is there's a reason why it is. 0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:48.480 I think it is right now the more popular airline, 0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:52.240 but Delta. I will not say nice things about you 0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:56.560 if you go down this AI surveillance pricing bs because 0:28:56.560 --> 0:29:02.080 it's extraordinarily discriminatory and I think predatory. So I just 0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:05.280 wanted to bring that up because literally had the conversation 0:29:05.360 --> 0:29:07.280 with Lena con and I think was two days later 0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:10.880 that the news about Delta Airlines was there a couple 0:29:10.920 --> 0:29:18.600 of political notes in North Carolina. Roy Cooper has decided 0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:20.360 to jump in. We kind of knew. I think i'd 0:29:20.480 --> 0:29:22.720 let you know that it would have been a shock 0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:25.480 to Democrats had the former governor not gotten into the 0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:28.360 Senate race. But what's interesting I told you before Laura 0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:31.520 Trump has frozen the Republican field, saying she isn't going 0:29:31.560 --> 0:29:36.920 to make a decision until Thanksgiving. However, according to my 0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:39.280 friends at the Hotline, she actually has to make her 0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:42.080 decision sooner than that, even though she wents to state 0:29:42.160 --> 0:29:45.040 law North Carolina requires her to move back to North 0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:49.800 Carolina by late September in order to meet a ninety 0:29:50.040 --> 0:29:57.200 day party affiliation requirement before the December candidate filing deadline. 0:29:57.360 --> 0:30:00.000 So while Laura Trump wanted to buy time until Thanksgiving, 0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:03.680 according to my friends in Hotline, that is something she 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:07.080 can't do anymore. So with Roy Cooper in, I actually 0:30:07.200 --> 0:30:09.600 do think because he's going to get a huge financial 0:30:10.040 --> 0:30:13.360 head start on that, I do think there'll be a lot, 0:30:13.480 --> 0:30:17.120 you know, a she's got an actual deadline in order 0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:21.640 to meet residency requirements. And frankly, I think it's something 0:30:21.680 --> 0:30:24.240 that national Republicans are going to want her. It's going 0:30:24.320 --> 0:30:27.760 to I think this is a double edged sword in 0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:31.520 a midterm year sharing the last name with the sitting president. 0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:34.480 I don't care which party you are. In any midterm year, 0:30:34.520 --> 0:30:38.400 that's usually not a good place to be. So while 0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:41.360 being a Trump will clear the field for her, means 0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:44.280 there'll be no serious primary challenge, She'll have all the 0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:47.960 money in the world, et cetera, et cetera. She may 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:52.480 acquire all of Donald Trump's political baggage. And is that 0:30:52.640 --> 0:30:55.440 something that is going to make that seed harder to 0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:59.800 hold or easier to hold? All right, let me tell 0:30:59.840 --> 0:31:03.640 you quick two minutes about this independent there was. There 0:31:03.720 --> 0:31:08.360 was two interesting pieces of information that I learned from 0:31:08.360 --> 0:31:11.479 it that I wanted to share. One is sort of 0:31:11.520 --> 0:31:17.120 the demographic makeup of self describe independence. I think many 0:31:17.120 --> 0:31:18.960 of us have been telling you for quite some time 0:31:19.000 --> 0:31:22.000 that you know, the fastest growing party in America is 0:31:22.040 --> 0:31:25.320 no party you go around any There's about thirty five 0:31:25.360 --> 0:31:30.800 states that keep track of that force you to register 0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:32.800 by party. There's another fifteen where you don't have to 0:31:32.840 --> 0:31:36.160 register by party. I live in one of those, Virginia. 0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:40.680 It's that you don't have to declare party to registered vote. 0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:43.320 But among those states that do the fastest growing party 0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:46.880 has been either no party affiliation independent however, and I 0:31:46.880 --> 0:31:49.760 think they call it NPA in Florida. Different states call 0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:54.120 it different things. Nearly seventy five percent of all those 0:31:54.160 --> 0:31:56.880 that have been registering as independence are under the age 0:31:56.880 --> 0:32:02.000 of forty five. This is primarily a phenomenon of millennials 0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:09.480 and gen Z. And what's also interesting is that the 0:32:09.520 --> 0:32:14.160 gentleman that was on my panel believed that by twenty 0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:20.120 twenty eight, millennials and gen Z combined, so basically, all 0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:24.160 voters under the age of fifty will outnumber all voters 0:32:24.240 --> 0:32:30.720 over the age of fifty in the electorate. So this 0:32:30.840 --> 0:32:33.960 is the growing part of the electorate as the older 0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:37.000 part is shrinking. And what's interesting older voters because once 0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:39.280 you get into the habit of either voting read or 0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:42.440 voting blue, the older you get, the more likely you 0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:46.400 keep that habit. You view third party candidates or independent 0:32:46.400 --> 0:32:49.320 candidates more as spoilers that end up benefiting one party 0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:52.040 or the other party. That is not where millennials see 0:32:52.040 --> 0:32:54.280 independent candidates, and that is not where gen Z sees 0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:58.640 independent candidates. It's fascinating statistic and the question really is 0:32:58.640 --> 0:33:01.840 is this something is the something to build on and 0:33:01.880 --> 0:33:03.680 I do think it means that if you're going to 0:33:03.760 --> 0:33:07.720 run as an independent, you really you know that your 0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:12.000 best potential constituency is going to probably be voters under 0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:14.960 forty five, which some argue is a is a harder 0:33:14.960 --> 0:33:19.120 group of voters to get focused early in a campaign, 0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:21.960 which an independent candidate sometimes needs. You can get to 0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:24.520 those voters late, right when you're under the age of fifty. 0:33:24.520 --> 0:33:26.600 You've got a lot of other things going on, raising kids, 0:33:26.640 --> 0:33:28.800 do da da, you know, mixing all sorts of things, 0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:31.840 and sometimes you don't tune in until late. Older voters 0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:34.960 today know how they're voting in twenty twenty six, younger 0:33:35.040 --> 0:33:37.600 voters don't yet know how they're going to vote because 0:33:38.080 --> 0:33:43.440 they have busier, busier lives and they're still forming their opinions. 0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:47.880 But I thought that was a fascinating point on that. 0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:50.959 And then the other is this question of whether is 0:33:51.040 --> 0:33:55.360 there a I don't want to call it a legal loophole, 0:33:55.360 --> 0:33:57.840 but is there a better way for the Green Party, 0:33:58.080 --> 0:34:01.240 Libertarian Party, Working Families, Party, Forward Party, all of them 0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:05.520 working together and filing essentially class action suits against all 0:34:05.520 --> 0:34:10.560 these state parties that put up higher barriers. I don't 0:34:10.640 --> 0:34:17.480 understand how you don't have an equal protection argument that basically, voters, 0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:20.640 if you're not a registered D or R and you 0:34:20.680 --> 0:34:23.040 want to either run for office or you either want 0:34:23.040 --> 0:34:25.000 to participate in a primary in some of these states, 0:34:25.400 --> 0:34:31.200 you're being disenfranchised and register have it being forced to 0:34:31.239 --> 0:34:33.080 have to register with one of the two major parties 0:34:33.080 --> 0:34:36.320 in order to either get ballot access or to participate 0:34:36.360 --> 0:34:41.920 in a primary. It's a form of coercion. Right is 0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:49.480 that legal? How is that constitutional? So anyway, it's the 0:34:49.560 --> 0:34:52.200 question is whether all these entities could work together, could 0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:55.080 do this, because ultimately we're not going to know if 0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:58.719 independent candidates or a third party movement can really take 0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:01.719 off unless they get an equal shot at getting on 0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:04.680 the ballot. And right now, ballot access is usually the 0:35:04.680 --> 0:35:10.319 biggest hurdle for many of these candidates. All right, let's 0:35:10.360 --> 0:35:11.920 sneak in a quick break and when we come back 0:35:12.280 --> 0:35:15.600 my conversation with Ben Smith, like I said, the quintessential 0:35:15.640 --> 0:35:19.920 New Yorker, and I say that with nothing but respect 0:35:20.239 --> 0:35:33.120 and compliment on that front, coming up, Ben Smith, well 0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:35.960 joining me now is the editor in Cheap of Semaphore. 0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:38.799 It is Ben Smith. I've known him in so many 0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:42.960 of your iterations. I have multiple, many of yours exactly. 0:35:43.000 --> 0:35:45.920 This is the world, the world that we occupy in 0:35:46.120 --> 0:35:50.400 media and journalism. But looks semaphore is what do you 0:35:50.440 --> 0:35:52.160 celebrating your third birthday? Pretty close? 0:35:52.280 --> 0:35:58.120 I will be yeah, yeah, what is it today that 0:35:58.280 --> 0:35:59.520 you didn't expect. 0:35:59.239 --> 0:36:02.719 It to be nearly three years ago? Because I find 0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:07.480 it interesting The goal was smart information for the English 0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:10.200 speaking world pretty much? Right? Is that? My am? I? 0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:13.520 You know? Is that? Is that? The is that one 0:36:13.520 --> 0:36:18.560 line explainer? So where are we in your journey three 0:36:18.640 --> 0:36:21.560 years later with Justin Smith who he and I have 0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:24.440 sons who just graduated high school together, so we the 0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:28.160 insular nature of the media in Washington and New York 0:36:28.280 --> 0:36:31.520 is uh is going to come through in this conversation. 0:36:31.640 --> 0:36:33.680 But I am where do you? Where are you today? 0:36:34.239 --> 0:36:36.959 And where did you think you would be three years ago? Yeah? 0:36:37.360 --> 0:36:40.239 Well, congratulations on that check and also you know, on 0:36:40.280 --> 0:36:42.440 your assent from being the editor of the Hotline, which 0:36:42.480 --> 0:36:46.919 is what I heard, and it is yeah, we both 0:36:47.040 --> 0:36:50.480 sort of lived through that unbelievably crazy period of history 0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:53.360 in this in our profession, or like probably both of 0:36:53.440 --> 0:36:56.520 us would have been had we met, you know, we 0:36:56.640 --> 0:36:58.640 been in thirty years earlier and met thirty years ago, 0:36:58.640 --> 0:37:02.440 we would have basically inside gied organizations rising in the ranks. 0:37:02.480 --> 0:37:06.719 One hopes for that, and instead we've just done a 0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:08.640 series of been saying different things. 0:37:10.360 --> 0:37:12.360 And sort of written the wave of Well, as I 0:37:12.400 --> 0:37:15.560 say about the story of media over the last one 0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:22.719 hundred years, is new technology fragmentation consolidation. New technology fragmentation consolidation. 0:37:23.200 --> 0:37:26.200 And you and I have lived through now two arguably 0:37:26.200 --> 0:37:30.040 we're now are in our second fragmentation period. Right, Internet 0:37:30.239 --> 0:37:33.239 one point oh was fragmentation number one. That was sort 0:37:33.280 --> 0:37:36.240 of what the hotline was. That was in some ways 0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:38.399 the end of one point zero is what Politico came 0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:41.680 in and did that. And now streaming and where we 0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:45.520 are now is sort of fragmentation. Independent journalism, whatever you 0:37:45.560 --> 0:37:48.080 want to call it, is fragmentation two point zero. And 0:37:48.160 --> 0:37:50.640 in some ways that's what semaphore right. You guys are 0:37:51.080 --> 0:37:53.759 trying to challenge traditional media. I'm trying to do it 0:37:53.760 --> 0:37:56.520 in my own way. And here we are, and as 0:37:56.560 --> 0:37:58.520 I joke, and I think you guys probably feel the 0:37:58.520 --> 0:38:01.560 same way. The goal is to be consolidator, not to 0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:04.080 get consolidated. But if you get consolidated, it might not 0:38:04.120 --> 0:38:04.799 be so bad either. 0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:08.680 That's that's a very very good summary, right, and you 0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:11.040 sort of yeah, I mean I think you may you 0:38:11.120 --> 0:38:14.719 sort of left the old thing at the last possible 0:38:14.719 --> 0:38:17.040 moment to get off the ship and are now, like 0:38:17.080 --> 0:38:19.719 I think, here just in time to blow up and 0:38:19.760 --> 0:38:21.600 get consolidated. So congratulations on it. 0:38:21.719 --> 0:38:23.479 Yeah, No, it's funny you say that. I do feel 0:38:23.480 --> 0:38:26.600 as if I grabbed the last lifeboat. There are times 0:38:26.640 --> 0:38:27.319 I feel that way. 0:38:29.000 --> 0:38:30.799 The uh but yeah, but so no, I mean, I 0:38:30.800 --> 0:38:34.480 think you know somepore. You know, we launched, We launched, 0:38:34.600 --> 0:38:38.239 I think as people were saying, hey, the web as 0:38:38.280 --> 0:38:40.239 we knew it, in social media as we knew it 0:38:40.440 --> 0:38:42.640 don't seem to be working quite so well as we thought. 0:38:43.160 --> 0:38:45.279 And with a kind of with a thesis that we're 0:38:45.280 --> 0:38:47.759 going to have to reach people one to one and 0:38:47.920 --> 0:38:50.640 also that convening at events are going to be a 0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:52.399 big part of this business and a big and sort 0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:54.200 of the core of how you reach pop one to one. 0:38:54.800 --> 0:38:56.920 That second thing has just been truer than we could 0:38:56.960 --> 0:38:59.000 have imagined. Like we built these really in the short 0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:02.279 period time, pretty huge. We have a Davos competitor in 0:39:02.360 --> 0:39:05.319 Washington called the World Economy summit which you actually gatherather 0:39:06.000 --> 0:39:08.200 maybe I think it was the biggest gathering of CEOs 0:39:08.200 --> 0:39:09.960 in America this year, and we did it in April. 0:39:09.960 --> 0:39:14.239 It'sn be a lot bigger next year. And so I 0:39:14.280 --> 0:39:17.000 think the notion that you could sort of build a 0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:22.160 news organization whose core was convening it was a little 0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:26.040 exotic and has really been truer than we expect it 0:39:26.080 --> 0:39:28.000 in a way, like we said it, but now we 0:39:28.040 --> 0:39:31.440 have really like that's really what we're doing. And then 0:39:32.480 --> 0:39:36.000 the notion that in a world with like where social 0:39:36.080 --> 0:39:40.080 media is really untrustworthy and polarized, where the web is 0:39:40.080 --> 0:39:43.080 really untrustworthy and polarized, you know that we could build 0:39:43.120 --> 0:39:46.960 something and I think maybe more than we expected that. Like, 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:48.759 there's a group of people, and it's particularly like people 0:39:48.760 --> 0:39:53.040 who make decisions in business and government elsewhere, who just 0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:55.239 like can't afford to be lied to because for them 0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:58.080 news is a tool they used to make decisions. And 0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:00.640 most of the rest of news consumers. I think the 0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:03.440 thesis of a lot of media companies is, oh, like, 0:40:03.560 --> 0:40:06.480 this is entertainment for people. It doesn't have to be true, 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:10.279 it has to be emotionally engaging, and so like I 0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:12.400 think there's a real split there, and we definitely have 0:40:12.520 --> 0:40:15.839 taken that former path of like, we're news for people 0:40:15.880 --> 0:40:19.759 who really probably know what their philosophy of the world is, 0:40:19.800 --> 0:40:21.839 and we're probably not going to change that, but we 0:40:21.880 --> 0:40:25.800 can inform them. We can open that, we can provide 0:40:25.920 --> 0:40:29.000 different perspectives in different legitimate points of view and tell 0:40:29.040 --> 0:40:31.840 them even what people who they despise think about this, 0:40:31.960 --> 0:40:34.839 and that that's a really valuable service. We can tell them, 0:40:35.040 --> 0:40:37.960 we can separate news from opinion. They're not out shopping 0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:39.640 for new points of view on the world or for 0:40:39.680 --> 0:40:42.560 new opinions for themselves. They're trying to understand what's going on. 0:40:43.320 --> 0:40:46.600 You know, what I find refreshing in what you're doing 0:40:46.840 --> 0:40:51.359 is that it's all free. There's no subscription, right, and 0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:54.799 I mean this. You know there's no subscription at all. 0:40:57.600 --> 0:40:59.880 And I know you've said, well, maybe in the future 0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:03.440 I'll be a subscription model, but I am a huge 0:41:03.480 --> 0:41:07.360 believer that paywalls are not going to solve the information 0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:11.880 ecosystem problem. So explain why you decided to be free 0:41:11.920 --> 0:41:14.279 for all and that you've not I think a lot 0:41:14.320 --> 0:41:16.040 of people assume, well, you're going to be free for 0:41:16.160 --> 0:41:18.240 now and then you're going to put up the paywall 0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:20.880 and that's not happened. Explain that philosophy. 0:41:20.960 --> 0:41:22.920 Yeah, I mean I would say that I do. I 0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:27.319 don't view business models as philosophical, like I think in 0:41:27.400 --> 0:41:30.120 news people tend to like talk their book and so 0:41:30.239 --> 0:41:32.759 when I was at BuzzFeed, there was an impulse to 0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:36.360 be like, look like, you know, free is democratizing. And 0:41:36.400 --> 0:41:37.799 when I was at The New York Times, is an 0:41:37.800 --> 0:41:40.200 impulse to say, look like, you're you are getting great 0:41:40.239 --> 0:41:42.480 value out of this journalism, you should pay for it. 0:41:42.640 --> 0:41:44.920 And you hear people in particularly there's a way of 0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:48.800 people saying like, subscription is the only like pure way 0:41:48.840 --> 0:41:52.640 to do journalism because you're not corrupted by advertisers, can 0:41:52.719 --> 0:41:54.440 be you can really say what you think, you can 0:41:54.480 --> 0:41:54.839 be honest. 0:41:55.480 --> 0:41:59.040 Ask the New York Times about their captured base of 0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:03.200 subscribers when James Bennett dared to green light and op 0:42:03.360 --> 0:42:05.719 ed by Tom Cotton when it was a revolt of 0:42:05.760 --> 0:42:08.680 their paid subscribers, and they panicked, And you're just sitting 0:42:08.719 --> 0:42:11.480 there going, well, that's no different than advertiser capture. That's 0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:12.440 audience capture. 0:42:13.560 --> 0:42:15.080 Yeah, I think that's right. And I think all basically 0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:17.680 all these models in which you are paid to do 0:42:17.719 --> 0:42:20.920 your work like have carry with them real risks that 0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:24.400 it screws up the journalism and the best way to 0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:25.920 maybe the best way to get away from is to 0:42:25.960 --> 0:42:28.000 diversify and have a bunch and to be having a 0:42:28.040 --> 0:42:29.759 bunch of different models to be. And I think my 0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:31.920 view is I'm pretty agnostic about how you pay for 0:42:31.920 --> 0:42:36.640 the journalism. I do think that we grew up in 0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:39.560 this like utopian moment of just open information and free 0:42:39.560 --> 0:42:43.120 information that was new that I mean, and you know, 0:42:43.120 --> 0:42:45.280 I guess made a way that probably started with television 0:42:45.320 --> 0:42:48.640 broadcast right broadcast was free as a matter of like 0:42:48.680 --> 0:42:50.480 you can figure out how to make people pay for it. 0:42:50.480 --> 0:42:52.040 I'm sure they would have if they could have. I'm 0:42:52.080 --> 0:42:54.600 sure you know, the founders of CBS News, if they'd 0:42:54.640 --> 0:42:56.600 figure out a way to make people pay, like the 0:42:56.640 --> 0:42:58.920 BBC does. They come and they like raid your apartment 0:42:58.920 --> 0:43:00.879 and they see if you have a television, and if 0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:02.560 you do, they make you pay the license fee and 0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:04.359 you can be in trouble if you don't. Like that's 0:43:04.400 --> 0:43:04.960 literally how they do. 0:43:05.080 --> 0:43:06.319 That's literally how it works there. 0:43:06.680 --> 0:43:09.680 Yeah, yeah, Like the inspector will cut like literally bang 0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:12.160 on your door. I knew people I lived there briefly 0:43:12.160 --> 0:43:14.799 who would cover their televisions with like a with like 0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:17.600 a blanket just in case, because they were trying to 0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:18.279 get out of paying. 0:43:18.560 --> 0:43:20.920 Wow. I had no idea. Wow, it's just a. 0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:22.960 Few pounds a year. I mean's you know anyway, But 0:43:23.000 --> 0:43:24.799 it's hard to make people pay for broadcasts. It's sort 0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:27.080 of a technological matter. It used to be hard to 0:43:27.080 --> 0:43:30.200 make people pay for the web. Netflix and Spotify trained 0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:34.799 us all to pay. Yeah, I don't think. I mean, 0:43:34.840 --> 0:43:37.960 I guess my own view is that figuring out ways 0:43:38.760 --> 0:43:43.160 to employ people to gather trustworthy information is maybe even 0:43:43.480 --> 0:43:47.120 is a big crisis. The availability of trust with information 0:43:47.200 --> 0:43:49.799 is another big crisis. But I don't want to like 0:43:50.000 --> 0:43:53.000 make it harder to pay journalists because I am ideological 0:43:53.000 --> 0:43:55.680 of that thing too, I guess is my and and 0:43:55.760 --> 0:43:57.799 for our for ourselves, like we're you know, we think 0:43:57.840 --> 0:43:59.920 the advert we were having a great run in the 0:44:00.000 --> 0:44:03.520 advertising business and the sponsorship business. And I don't have 0:44:03.520 --> 0:44:06.719 any plans to charge subscriptions. But if I thought that 0:44:06.760 --> 0:44:08.600 it would help me hire more journalists, so would do it. 0:44:09.080 --> 0:44:11.160 No, And I, you know, I think there's a role 0:44:11.239 --> 0:44:13.320 for that, Like when I think about the whole variety 0:44:13.320 --> 0:44:16.040 of things, right when you you can't just be in 0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:20.640 one category. Yeah, exactly, you know. To me, you know, 0:44:20.680 --> 0:44:22.880 there's got to be a baseline that's available to everybody. 0:44:23.080 --> 0:44:27.920 And then you know, look specialty things, you know, specialty newsletters, 0:44:28.120 --> 0:44:32.160 why wouldn't you want to have also? 0:44:32.440 --> 0:44:34.279 And also there's more complicated things you can do, like 0:44:34.360 --> 0:44:36.960 in your business. Like I just think that like you're 0:44:36.960 --> 0:44:39.680 putting out, you're producing a good show that is streaming 0:44:39.800 --> 0:44:42.960 rather than television, although the production values are just as 0:44:43.000 --> 0:44:46.000 high as lots of what is on television. And in 0:44:46.200 --> 0:44:49.440 five minutes, like Substack TV is going to come to 0:44:49.480 --> 0:44:52.480 you and say, hey, we are television now and we'd 0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:55.279 like to window your show, like we'll pay you to 0:44:55.320 --> 0:44:57.800 get it two hours earlier, right or something. 0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:01.400 No, I do think that that's where we're headed. You know, 0:45:01.800 --> 0:45:06.240 the Pat McAfee model, that's going to be the model. 0:45:06.280 --> 0:45:09.840 I mean, you know, I assume in a year the 0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:13.120 pod Save America Boys will be on MSNBC. But they 0:45:13.160 --> 0:45:16.719 won't work. But they won't work for MSNBC. They will 0:45:16.760 --> 0:45:19.680 license them, right, they will let everybody's And this is 0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:23.080 a question, and I'm curious if you believe this if 0:45:23.120 --> 0:45:28.320 we are in a temporary period where journalists and content creators, 0:45:28.480 --> 0:45:30.759 because it's you know, they're they're related, but they're not 0:45:30.800 --> 0:45:32.880 always one and the same. But let's put it in 0:45:32.880 --> 0:45:35.120 one that they're all going to own their own work. 0:45:35.840 --> 0:45:37.319 You know, I look at the you know, I'm doing 0:45:37.320 --> 0:45:40.280 some work with Newsphere, which is which is another type 0:45:40.280 --> 0:45:43.960 of model, which is and people it's a it's a 0:45:44.120 --> 0:45:48.040 it's I'm really enjoying sort of just that learning about 0:45:48.080 --> 0:45:50.960 that business model. And it's a different business model than substack. 0:45:52.560 --> 0:45:55.240 But I do think there's going to be these different 0:45:55.800 --> 0:45:59.080 because everybody that's on Newsphere owns their own material. They're 0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:02.480 just used, they're just licensing to that platform. Do you 0:46:02.520 --> 0:46:05.880 think that I think I think this is a generational 0:46:05.920 --> 0:46:08.880 shift and this will be the way it works for 0:46:08.960 --> 0:46:11.360 another decade or so. Are you convinced of this? 0:46:13.080 --> 0:46:15.200 Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm not sure what the 0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:18.440 stakes are of whether you own or you know, whether 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:22.120 do you own this hour of us talking about we're 0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:24.080 talking about, you know, eternal truth. So this will have 0:46:24.160 --> 0:46:26.239 value for a long time. But much of what you 0:46:26.280 --> 0:46:28.600 talk about is stuff that isn't that interesting. Tomorrow because 0:46:28.600 --> 0:46:31.719 it's going to be overtaken by events. And so I think, 0:46:31.800 --> 0:46:35.320 particularly in the news business, what it is to own 0:46:35.640 --> 0:46:37.960 is a little overstated. And I think people are going 0:46:38.040 --> 0:46:40.919 to make financial decisions that are pretty boring about which 0:46:40.920 --> 0:46:43.200 pays you more. And I think there's also like is 0:46:43.239 --> 0:46:46.200 it ai training data? That's another form of ownership and 0:46:46.280 --> 0:46:49.719 licensing that might make yesterday's show have a little more 0:46:49.800 --> 0:46:53.080 value or not. But I think it's interesting. I mean, 0:46:53.080 --> 0:46:56.200 I surprises me, actually, But Fox Corp. The parent company 0:46:56.239 --> 0:46:59.000 of Fox News, is way ahead on this, like. 0:46:58.960 --> 0:47:01.919 They have been what they do with Fox Nation, back 0:47:01.960 --> 0:47:03.319 with Tucker three years ago. 0:47:03.400 --> 0:47:05.520 They did this, Yeah, but they did like a lot 0:47:05.560 --> 0:47:07.600 of out Let's CN end of this too did like, 0:47:07.680 --> 0:47:09.239 we have an app and it's gonna be like the 0:47:09.560 --> 0:47:12.120 It's gonna be like the more boring stuff from Jake 0:47:12.200 --> 0:47:14.480 Tapper's book club, God bless him. It's gonna be the 0:47:14.480 --> 0:47:18.720 stuff you don't want from our star talent the oh, 0:47:20.040 --> 0:47:22.400 but the new version of it is going to be 0:47:22.840 --> 0:47:25.000 this is our best stuff in an app. And what 0:47:25.040 --> 0:47:28.719 Fox did? They acquire this podcast, right wing podcast called Ruthless. Yesterday, 0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:31.120 they acquired a company called Red Seat Ventures, that is 0:47:31.160 --> 0:47:34.720 the production company for Here's Morgan Tucker, Carlson, Megan, Kelly, 0:47:35.920 --> 0:47:40.200 Bill O'Reilly like they're starting to basically take what they have, 0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:42.839 which is capital, Like they can pay you a bunch 0:47:42.880 --> 0:47:47.600 of money and a real advertising sales operation and to 0:47:47.840 --> 0:47:50.719 and basically between the and a bunch of distribution. I'm 0:47:50.719 --> 0:47:54.360 like to be and I'm Fox, and you're going to 0:47:54.400 --> 0:47:56.600 see these big media companies. Versut which used to be 0:47:56.719 --> 0:47:58.680 MSNBC is going to figure is going to get around 0:47:58.680 --> 0:48:00.840 to this soon. I gotta figure and we'll get around 0:48:00.880 --> 0:48:03.200 to this, say like, oh, what we are is a 0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:05.640 collection of shows and talent. That's what we've always been. 0:48:06.120 --> 0:48:08.120 There's a new or you know what you're describing. You 0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:11.960 know what you're describing Clear Channel from the nineties, huh 0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:16.440 you know? And and it's where I mean, no, it didn't. 0:48:16.480 --> 0:48:20.759 And the point is that iHeartRadio. I heard yeah they 0:48:20.800 --> 0:48:23.120 ended up training. The point is is that this is 0:48:23.160 --> 0:48:26.160 the way I've described where so there's sort of two 0:48:26.360 --> 0:48:30.400 there's late stage cable TV right, which is essentially Fox 0:48:30.600 --> 0:48:33.640 versut whatever the spin off from Warner Brothers is going 0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:36.439 to look like, which I assume and and I guess 0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:39.000 paramount's going to. I assume they don't spin off, they 0:48:39.040 --> 0:48:42.600 just sell to either the Warner brothers, uh can spin 0:48:42.680 --> 0:48:48.160 off or versant. But it feels it's very similar. I've 0:48:48.160 --> 0:48:50.840 described it. So I'll give you an example. You'll appreciate this. 0:48:50.840 --> 0:48:55.480 When I was at National Journal in about two years 0:48:55.480 --> 0:48:57.520 before you guys showed up when I mean you guys 0:48:57.560 --> 0:49:00.000 Politico or what was it called for a brief period 0:49:00.040 --> 0:49:03.200 before it was politically the Capitol leader of the capital Leader, right, 0:49:03.680 --> 0:49:06.160 And there was a bunch of us that went to 0:49:06.239 --> 0:49:08.640 David Bradley and went to John Fox Sullivan at the time, 0:49:08.640 --> 0:49:10.759 and said, hey, we should shut the magazine down and 0:49:10.800 --> 0:49:13.440 put all of the efforts into Congress Daily, which was 0:49:13.920 --> 0:49:16.600 a growing digital product and hotline. You know, we had 0:49:16.600 --> 0:49:20.040 all we were we were, we were, and and it 0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:22.319 was we had a huge debate about it, and it 0:49:22.360 --> 0:49:24.600 was sort of the digital side was going, hey, you know, 0:49:25.040 --> 0:49:27.040 and but there was a but there was a bunch 0:49:27.080 --> 0:49:30.080 of revenue still available, and it was sort of like 0:49:30.120 --> 0:49:33.479 you didn't want to just throw away that big chunk 0:49:33.480 --> 0:49:35.760 of money. Every think we were talking eight figures in revenue, 0:49:36.080 --> 0:49:39.480 and you didn't want to You couldn't and yet everybody 0:49:39.560 --> 0:49:42.600 agreed it was a diminishing asset. That it was that 0:49:42.760 --> 0:49:46.040 eventually the trade association guys that bought all this full 0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:49.400 page advertising in the magazine were going to retire and 0:49:49.440 --> 0:49:52.080 be replaced by people who realized, no, no, no, no, you 0:49:52.120 --> 0:49:53.880 don't want to advertise in a magazine. You want to 0:49:53.880 --> 0:49:56.480 be in the digital product. But you never know when 0:49:56.480 --> 0:49:59.000 to when to say no to that cash. And that's 0:49:59.040 --> 0:50:01.440 what I think is happening with there's a certain amount 0:50:01.440 --> 0:50:03.000 of money to be made in owning some of these 0:50:03.000 --> 0:50:06.080 cable channels, probably for another just like there was with 0:50:06.239 --> 0:50:07.839 FM radio in the nineties. Yeah. 0:50:09.080 --> 0:50:12.080 Yeah, the classic sort of innovator's dilemma. And that's why 0:50:12.080 --> 0:50:16.239 you can see the Harvard Business School graduates who run WarnerMedia. 0:50:16.280 --> 0:50:18.319 Oh maybe not in that case, but the basically, like 0:50:18.800 --> 0:50:22.080 the business school guys are and women are looking at 0:50:22.120 --> 0:50:25.200 these companies and saying, great, you've got a declining asset 0:50:25.280 --> 0:50:27.279 here with a lot that's throwing off a lot of cash. Like, 0:50:27.600 --> 0:50:29.319 get it off our books as quick, you sell it 0:50:29.360 --> 0:50:30.839 for a lot of money as fast as you can, 0:50:30.880 --> 0:50:32.720 because it's going to destroy the rest of the business. 0:50:33.400 --> 0:50:36.600 Yeah. No, And that's and that's exactly what Comcast and 0:50:36.800 --> 0:50:40.200 wbd's figured out. Holy shit we need in sky dances, 0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:41.920 like no, no, no, these things. We all want to have 0:50:42.000 --> 0:50:43.879 those legacy products, right, and. 0:50:43.840 --> 0:50:46.800 They're poison actually, and we have to get they're incredibly lucrative, 0:50:46.840 --> 0:50:49.400 but they're going to ultimately destroy the whole company. And 0:50:49.440 --> 0:50:52.080 so the essence, so you're just seeing people like Jettison 0:50:52.160 --> 0:50:55.960 these incredibly lucrative cable networks as fascinating likely you know, 0:50:56.080 --> 0:50:58.279 like they have no value. It's actually kind of fascinating. 0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:01.520 And yet I don her that. Look, not everybody's going 0:51:01.560 --> 0:51:03.359 to go away like what I always describe. And I'm 0:51:03.360 --> 0:51:07.680 curious if you agree with this, which is, look, mainstream, 0:51:07.719 --> 0:51:10.520 there's always a publication, there's always a version of mainstream 0:51:10.560 --> 0:51:15.000 media that's dying. Right. Life Magazine was a major deal 0:51:15.120 --> 0:51:19.880 until it wasn't right And at some point having a 0:51:19.960 --> 0:51:24.120 magazine with the best photos around the country no longer 0:51:24.120 --> 0:51:27.000 meant anything anymore, right because moving pictures was better and 0:51:27.040 --> 0:51:29.920 we had color TV, and Life just sort of it stopped, 0:51:30.200 --> 0:51:33.800 and you know, we didn't have this big pearl clutching 0:51:33.840 --> 0:51:36.560 moment where we said, oh my god, mainstream media is dying. 0:51:36.640 --> 0:51:40.080 Life Magazine is dead right. Like, the point is that 0:51:40.120 --> 0:51:42.239 we just evolved, and I think we're having the same thing. 0:51:42.719 --> 0:51:46.359 Cable news is probably going to evolve out of this. 0:51:47.680 --> 0:51:51.200 But and maybe not all three major networks survive in 0:51:51.239 --> 0:51:54.640 the next decade, but some of them will, right, and 0:51:54.960 --> 0:51:56.880 they'll and and then there'll be new main you know, 0:51:57.080 --> 0:51:59.560 and something on YouTube may become the thing. Maybe the 0:51:59.600 --> 0:52:03.600 midast much becomes the next CBS News, right, you know that. 0:52:04.280 --> 0:52:08.240 You know there was a time when CBS was a startup. 0:52:08.960 --> 0:52:11.920 Yeah, with our competitors around it, and you didn't know 0:52:11.920 --> 0:52:12.759 which one was going to win. 0:52:12.880 --> 0:52:15.760 Yeah, right, you know I joke about Meet the Press 0:52:15.800 --> 0:52:18.880 started as an advertisement for a magazine called American Mercury. 0:52:19.520 --> 0:52:20.080 Is that right? 0:52:20.360 --> 0:52:24.200 Yes, the radio show began. They just bought time. It was, 0:52:24.320 --> 0:52:27.000 they bought that time on radio. It was like buying 0:52:27.040 --> 0:52:30.120 an hour of time at that time and a half hour. 0:52:30.560 --> 0:52:34.200 And it was brought to you by an American Mercury magazine. Huh, 0:52:34.360 --> 0:52:37.640 which was owned right, which was owned owned by the 0:52:37.719 --> 0:52:42.200 first by the then second host, if you will, fors 0:52:42.280 --> 0:52:45.279 and wells of Meet the Press. No no, no, this said 0:52:45.280 --> 0:52:50.400 the show yeah, yeah, anyway, and he owned and that 0:52:50.480 --> 0:52:51.960 was something you know, he owned Meet the Press for 0:52:51.960 --> 0:52:54.759 a long time until the NBC finally. Yeah, it was 0:52:54.800 --> 0:52:56.160 an interesting arrangement. 0:52:56.280 --> 0:52:59.000 Yeah, yeah, this stuff that we grew up feeling, we 0:52:59.040 --> 0:53:00.839 sort of we sort of came up into a moment 0:53:00.880 --> 0:53:03.080 when it all seems so stable, and that was itself 0:53:03.160 --> 0:53:03.920 kind of an illusion. 0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:06.520 That's the thing that I keep trying to you know, 0:53:06.800 --> 0:53:08.759 I joke about this all the time in our politics. 0:53:08.800 --> 0:53:11.440 I think if you grew up at the time we 0:53:11.440 --> 0:53:13.719 grew up, we grew up during the Cold War, and 0:53:14.080 --> 0:53:16.880 America was winning, and we won the Cold War. That 0:53:17.000 --> 0:53:20.319 was a big deal. But the Cold War also stabilized 0:53:20.400 --> 0:53:23.160 us as a country. It stabilized our politics. The two 0:53:23.239 --> 0:53:25.359 parties agreed that we had to fight the Cold War. 0:53:25.520 --> 0:53:27.880 They may disagree on how to do it, but everybody 0:53:27.880 --> 0:53:30.719 agreed on what to do, and both parties kept their fringes. 0:53:31.280 --> 0:53:33.560 And now, if you look at our politics today, it's 0:53:33.560 --> 0:53:35.680 actually very similar to the politics pre World War Two, 0:53:36.160 --> 0:53:38.239 and it's very similar to the politics of the entire 0:53:38.320 --> 0:53:41.920 nineteenth century and the media and media partisan media, and 0:53:41.960 --> 0:53:44.440 so in some ways, you and I I've always wondered, 0:53:44.480 --> 0:53:48.120 did we grow up in an outlier period of the American. 0:53:47.760 --> 0:53:50.960 Story totally, and I feel like it at times has 0:53:51.000 --> 0:53:55.239 really like affected my news judgment back poorly, Like it 0:53:55.320 --> 0:53:58.880 leaves you with a sort of constricted sense of imagination 0:53:58.920 --> 0:53:59.760 about what could happen. 0:54:00.360 --> 0:54:03.839 No, it absolutely well. Let me it's funny you talk 0:54:03.880 --> 0:54:06.640 about who you write for with some of for so 0:54:06.719 --> 0:54:10.200 take the Epstein story. Yeah, I've noticed you have a 0:54:10.239 --> 0:54:13.840 lot of the content creators are having are manufacturing Epstein 0:54:13.920 --> 0:54:17.239 leads because that's how the distribution works, right, In order 0:54:17.280 --> 0:54:19.040 to get tracked on any given day, you have to 0:54:19.120 --> 0:54:23.279 ride what people are on the algorithm. That's not how 0:54:23.320 --> 0:54:26.240 I think, and that's not how you think. And yet 0:54:26.680 --> 0:54:30.400 that's a business model for media, and it feels like 0:54:30.600 --> 0:54:33.080 a messy one, not a great one. 0:54:33.640 --> 0:54:35.239 Yeah, I mean, in this case, the model is just 0:54:35.320 --> 0:54:39.399 like spreading absolute lies to sell to get people's attention, right, 0:54:39.400 --> 0:54:42.160 I mean, the Epstein one is to me, like I mean, 0:54:42.160 --> 0:54:44.560 and I do think there's value to be had by 0:54:44.960 --> 0:54:47.200 trying to explain what's actually going on here, which is, 0:54:47.280 --> 0:54:50.360 you know, this is the most investigated story of the 0:54:50.480 --> 0:54:53.239 last twenty years by every law enforcement agency, every night, 0:54:53.280 --> 0:54:57.439 every everybody who's listening to our phones, every journalist, every 0:54:57.440 --> 0:55:01.359 great journalist and the and there's an enormous amount that's 0:55:01.400 --> 0:55:05.080 been reported, and specifically Gawker posted the quote unquote Epstein 0:55:05.160 --> 0:55:07.800 and whatever list. It's his address book. It's been on 0:55:07.840 --> 0:55:11.000 the internet for like what twelve years. It was like 0:55:11.040 --> 0:55:13.839 a medium sized scoop in the year twenty sixteen. And 0:55:15.040 --> 0:55:18.040 you know, and the Washington Post and others have documented 0:55:18.040 --> 0:55:21.000 in great detail his long and warm friendship with Donald J. Trump, 0:55:21.120 --> 0:55:23.640 Like again like not only not a news story of 0:55:23.680 --> 0:55:25.760 like the nineteen nineties, like you could ask to anybody 0:55:25.760 --> 0:55:28.160 in New York like, oh, yeah, they're friends, like not 0:55:28.160 --> 0:55:32.520 not secret in any way. And then all this other 0:55:32.560 --> 0:55:34.840 stuff is basically made up, Like it's to me, like 0:55:34.880 --> 0:55:37.759 this is pizza gate for people with college educations like 0:55:37.840 --> 0:55:41.560 Jeffrey Epstein obviously horrific abuser of young women in Florida 0:55:41.560 --> 0:55:44.680 in the early aughts. I think that's about blackmail. The 0:55:44.719 --> 0:55:48.000 stuff abit. I mean, this is supported well. 0:55:48.000 --> 0:55:49.839 And this gets it to something that I think it's 0:55:49.880 --> 0:55:52.279 been very hard to explain to the average person, which 0:55:52.320 --> 0:55:56.680 is the importance of pedophilia in every single scandal that 0:55:56.719 --> 0:55:58.920 the right wing has tried to create about the left 0:55:59.400 --> 0:56:02.640 right in that Epstein like it's a weird thing. There's 0:56:02.680 --> 0:56:07.120 this weird Mike Flynn was gave voice to it on X. 0:56:07.560 --> 0:56:09.759 But I think that's what made the Epstein story such 0:56:09.800 --> 0:56:12.040 a such a magnet for that same craft. 0:56:12.960 --> 0:56:15.200 It's a dehumanizing right and the left, because to me, 0:56:15.239 --> 0:56:18.680 it's like this is like mephilia is it's like a 0:56:18.719 --> 0:56:21.839 lizard brain like it just feels almost like because it's 0:56:21.840 --> 0:56:23.440 not just the right the left. It's the blood Lebels 0:56:23.480 --> 0:56:26.440 against the Jews. It's all the laft whers who think 0:56:26.440 --> 0:56:29.279 that Donald Trump is secretly trafficking in young women, right Like, 0:56:29.320 --> 0:56:32.400 it's to me like it's a conspiracy theory. 0:56:32.840 --> 0:56:35.480 Well, it's the ultimate de human Like, what's the what's 0:56:35.520 --> 0:56:40.200 the the minute you work somebody correct, right, and it 0:56:40.320 --> 0:56:44.960 becomes like the minute you throw it at somebody, it 0:56:45.000 --> 0:56:47.680 doesn't matter if it's true or not. Right, deny the denial. 0:56:47.719 --> 0:56:49.759 All of a sudden, that's like this horrible thing is 0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:53.040 stuck to you. And I think that's what's made it 0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:56.880 a popular sort of word to use to attack an 0:56:56.920 --> 0:57:00.160 opponent because it's immediately dehumanizing, right. 0:57:00.760 --> 0:57:04.760 Because it does happen into almost like a mythological level 0:57:04.840 --> 0:57:07.040 of like like I just think if you look back 0:57:07.080 --> 0:57:10.280 through like human history, people have conspiracy theories about children 0:57:10.320 --> 0:57:12.640 being kidnapped. I mean, what's the pied piper? 0:57:13.080 --> 0:57:13.239 Right? 0:57:13.360 --> 0:57:16.000 Like like I just think this stuff is like really 0:57:16.040 --> 0:57:19.040 deep in our psychees and people are sort of programmed 0:57:19.040 --> 0:57:20.960 to believe it, like we all are, and to pay 0:57:20.960 --> 0:57:22.640 attention to it, and it's hard to ignore and it 0:57:22.680 --> 0:57:25.800 like hooks into something really deep in how people think 0:57:25.800 --> 0:57:28.840 about that elites, like what are the elites? 0:57:28.880 --> 0:57:32.240 What are the powerful people up to? And that's yes, 0:57:32.800 --> 0:57:36.880 it's funny, it's like and that's the And I guess 0:57:36.880 --> 0:57:39.120 the question when does this end? Because I would argue 0:57:39.120 --> 0:57:44.160 it's always been there. It's just yeah, the Internet mainstreamed it. 0:57:44.280 --> 0:57:47.600 The Internet mainstreamed it musks like musks sort of like 0:57:47.680 --> 0:57:51.600 gloves off, we're not censoring anything. X sort of really 0:57:51.760 --> 0:57:54.880 super charged it on the right And I don't really 0:57:54.880 --> 0:57:56.600 think I think that if you look back at what 0:57:56.640 --> 0:57:59.880 Aaron Burr was being accused of by Hamilton and why 0:58:00.080 --> 0:58:03.520 they dueled, Like I think, like really dark sexual smears 0:58:03.560 --> 0:58:07.200 are like very very deeply connected to global politics always 0:58:07.240 --> 0:58:07.840 and probably not and. 0:58:07.840 --> 0:58:08.520 They always happen. 0:58:09.160 --> 0:58:11.360 Yeah, just we grew up in a rare era when 0:58:11.400 --> 0:58:13.280 they were being pushed back into the fringes. 0:58:13.400 --> 0:58:14.840 No, and this is where I come back where the 0:58:14.840 --> 0:58:17.320 Cold War. It turns out the only time we will 0:58:17.360 --> 0:58:21.760 act with some sensibility as a society is when there's 0:58:21.760 --> 0:58:23.200 an existential threat. 0:58:24.520 --> 0:58:27.720 And then honestly, like only sometimes. 0:58:27.680 --> 0:58:30.560 Well, not a pandemic. That's different. I do think pandemics 0:58:30.600 --> 0:58:33.040 are different. In history has shown that that pandemics are 0:58:33.080 --> 0:58:35.720 actually always divisive. You know this idea that it's only 0:58:35.800 --> 0:58:39.440 newly divisive, please go read about nineteen seventeen. Hugely divisive, 0:58:39.680 --> 0:58:43.840 Like pandemics have always been divisive between those that individual 0:58:43.880 --> 0:58:47.040 it's that it's human, but it's human basically. Yeah, right, 0:58:47.120 --> 0:58:50.360 it's always been a human you know, individual rights versus 0:58:50.400 --> 0:58:53.600 collective action. Right, there's always been this this push and pull. 0:58:55.440 --> 0:58:57.120 Nobody has the finger on the pulse of New York 0:58:57.160 --> 0:58:59.640 City in the reporting world. I think like you do. 0:59:00.160 --> 0:59:02.400 You're a believer in New York being the center of everything. 0:59:02.440 --> 0:59:04.040 And I say this, and it's. 0:59:03.920 --> 0:59:05.880 Not so much a believer, it's just I mean, like 0:59:05.920 --> 0:59:07.840 it's like I believe that the way I believe I 0:59:07.840 --> 0:59:08.480 should breathe air. 0:59:09.000 --> 0:59:11.120 I understand that, and I get it. You know, I 0:59:11.160 --> 0:59:14.400 used to. I remember one time having a fight with Brenton. 0:59:14.120 --> 0:59:15.800 Say, I'm not making that claim, it's just. 0:59:16.600 --> 0:59:19.760 But you'll you'll appreciate this. I remember one time that 0:59:21.720 --> 0:59:25.840 they were showing the some local parade on the nightly 0:59:25.960 --> 0:59:28.040 news in New York and I said, why are you 0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:29.920 doing that? Are you going to show the parade in 0:59:30.000 --> 0:59:33.080 Chicago and in Saint Louis And he goes, and Brian goes, well, 0:59:33.120 --> 0:59:35.560 one in nine Americans have a connection to New York City. 0:59:35.760 --> 0:59:38.280 And I said, so that means eight and nine Americans don't. 0:59:38.680 --> 0:59:41.120 It feels great? And it was right, right right. So 0:59:41.200 --> 0:59:44.840 there was this this whole back and forth. But I 0:59:44.920 --> 0:59:49.400 set this up because this is one time where I 0:59:49.440 --> 0:59:51.680 am going to agree with you. What happens in New 0:59:51.760 --> 0:59:55.520 York City is going to reverberate around the world. In 0:59:55.560 --> 0:59:58.360 this election, I think this is as big of a 0:59:58.480 --> 1:00:00.560 of a of an election as we had that's not 1:00:00.600 --> 1:00:05.040 a presidential in a long time. I mean the Mamdani election. 1:00:05.160 --> 1:00:09.440 I think is this is potentially this significant for the 1:00:09.440 --> 1:00:11.360 future of New York City. But I'm curious if you 1:00:11.440 --> 1:00:12.000 share that view. 1:00:12.280 --> 1:00:14.400 You know, it's interesting. I think it will really reverberate 1:00:14.440 --> 1:00:16.360 all those sort of for the wrong reasons, like as 1:00:16.480 --> 1:00:19.280 is often true, sure, like what's happening in New York 1:00:19.360 --> 1:00:21.960 is very weird at local Like the path through which 1:00:22.040 --> 1:00:25.200 this guy shot up to the Democratic nomination and now 1:00:25.240 --> 1:00:28.440 can't be stopped because you know, because he's facing the 1:00:28.480 --> 1:00:32.480 worst candidates in the world is like very specific and 1:00:32.520 --> 1:00:34.760 I think not necessarily emblematic of what's happening. If you 1:00:34.800 --> 1:00:37.120 look at the Senate primary in New Jersey across the 1:00:37.200 --> 1:00:40.760 river where Mike No, it's not really it's really representative 1:00:40.880 --> 1:00:44.120 anything except that you really do see and you just 1:00:44.200 --> 1:00:47.560 feel it here that the only people who have any 1:00:47.720 --> 1:00:50.840 energy are is the real left, is the hard left. 1:00:50.880 --> 1:00:52.360 In the same way I think that you could feel 1:00:52.360 --> 1:00:55.200 in Republican politics that the only people who who had 1:00:55.240 --> 1:00:58.919 any energy was the Trump movement. Like that, and there's 1:00:58.960 --> 1:01:01.560 really there's passion, and there's energy, and it's young people 1:01:01.640 --> 1:01:05.360 and they're not going to adore and they have figure 1:01:05.600 --> 1:01:08.680 and they and the thing that mcdanie really has, which 1:01:08.720 --> 1:01:13.480 I think the kind of previous iterations of the young 1:01:13.600 --> 1:01:17.080 Left really didn't, is how to communicate with working people, 1:01:17.560 --> 1:01:20.760 with people who don't share their ideology, with people who 1:01:20.760 --> 1:01:22.840 aren't interested in ideology with people who don't want to 1:01:22.920 --> 1:01:25.560 learn some new language to talk about the world and 1:01:25.600 --> 1:01:29.400 talk about politics. Mamdani doesn't come, is not trying to 1:01:29.400 --> 1:01:34.480 persuade you of anything in particular about gender. He's not 1:01:35.120 --> 1:01:38.240 really interested in talking about the control of the means 1:01:38.240 --> 1:01:40.560 of production. He's not like, you know, I mean, if 1:01:40.600 --> 1:01:42.960 you read that, if you're like, if you are someone 1:01:42.960 --> 1:01:46.360 who like thinks maybe capitalism is good, you should like 1:01:46.360 --> 1:01:48.960 and you read the DSA manifesto like your hair will 1:01:49.000 --> 1:01:51.480 stand on end. But Mamdani's not out there reading from 1:01:51.520 --> 1:01:55.400 the DSA manifesto. He you know, he's in some ways 1:01:55.400 --> 1:01:57.120 of a very normal politician. I think in a way, 1:01:57.160 --> 1:01:58.919 I think the tradition that he's in in New York 1:01:59.400 --> 1:02:02.200 is actually the other the last socialist mayor we had, 1:02:02.320 --> 1:02:04.760 who was Firella LaGuardia, Like I don't know if he 1:02:04.800 --> 1:02:08.200 will pull that off, but LaGuardia was divisive and similar 1:02:08.200 --> 1:02:10.840 ways actually was of the left in a pretty deep way. 1:02:11.680 --> 1:02:15.240 But also it was like relentlessly focused on like building 1:02:15.280 --> 1:02:17.560 stuff and moving stuff around and cleaning up the garbage, 1:02:17.560 --> 1:02:19.320 which is what these meanest blopses actually are. 1:02:27.840 --> 1:02:29.920 I think I've always said I think the most the 1:02:30.240 --> 1:02:34.320 most impressive thing to me in government is how much 1:02:34.360 --> 1:02:36.120 garbage New York City deals with every day. 1:02:36.840 --> 1:02:38.600 I probably badly. You know, we just put it in 1:02:38.640 --> 1:02:41.240 the fucking street, Like we just literally like we just 1:02:41.280 --> 1:02:42.720 dump it in the street. No one else in the 1:02:42.760 --> 1:02:44.960 world does this. We just piles the garbage in the 1:02:44.960 --> 1:02:47.120 streets and then the rats did it, and it smells. 1:02:47.200 --> 1:02:47.800 It's terrible. 1:02:47.840 --> 1:02:50.920 But for the most part, it gets cleaned up every day. Yeah, 1:02:50.960 --> 1:02:53.600 for the most part, it's gone. Like I'm like, it's 1:02:53.640 --> 1:02:56.920 one of those you're like, holy you know, I don't 1:02:56.960 --> 1:02:58.560 know another community. You know, we sit here and we 1:02:58.880 --> 1:03:00.440 you know, I always say, the sit here in you know, 1:03:00.880 --> 1:03:02.760 we love to beat the crap out of government. Government 1:03:02.760 --> 1:03:04.720 doesn't do this. Government doesn't do that. And then I'll say, 1:03:04.800 --> 1:03:06.120 I'm gonna give you a piece of paper and a 1:03:06.160 --> 1:03:08.360 dollar bill. Can you take it across country in three days? 1:03:08.600 --> 1:03:11.400 You know, our government actually pulls that off for less 1:03:11.400 --> 1:03:15.919 than a dollar And it's quite remarkable. And I sort 1:03:15.920 --> 1:03:18.160 of feel that, you know, we take for granted sometimes 1:03:18.200 --> 1:03:23.080 these mundane things that government does almost without us noticing. 1:03:24.600 --> 1:03:26.280 Yeah, and the New York government, I mean, you know, 1:03:26.520 --> 1:03:30.280 I mean, I guess I mean there's a shocking amount 1:03:30.280 --> 1:03:33.360 to me of optimism about Mom Donnie in town among people. 1:03:33.080 --> 1:03:36.000 Who there's no choice but to have optimism because he's 1:03:36.000 --> 1:03:39.080 gonna win. Yeah, not the problem. I mean Cuomo and Adams, 1:03:39.120 --> 1:03:41.480 I mean you sit there, You're like, you know, I 1:03:41.520 --> 1:03:46.040 cannot believe that New York's political elite just sat on 1:03:46.080 --> 1:03:48.840 the sidelines while Cuomo came in and ran. What was 1:03:48.920 --> 1:03:52.160 anybody thinking if two of the leaders of the Democratic 1:03:52.160 --> 1:03:54.680 Party are both from Brooklyn and they just what did 1:03:54.720 --> 1:03:56.919 they put like ear muffs on? They wanted to pay 1:03:56.920 --> 1:04:00.200 no attention to what was happening. It was it is 1:04:00.240 --> 1:04:04.520 the biggest sort of leadership failure of a political party 1:04:05.120 --> 1:04:07.200 that was happening right in their backyard, and they paid 1:04:07.200 --> 1:04:08.600 no attention to it until it was too late. 1:04:08.920 --> 1:04:11.160 Yeah, it's true. And Schumer jeffres could have said, hey, 1:04:11.200 --> 1:04:15.040 can't the guy is this other person and almost anyone else, 1:04:15.240 --> 1:04:19.120 and Cuomo took Coo became the establishment candidate. And now 1:04:19.160 --> 1:04:21.600 we're in this situation where the people who everybody in 1:04:21.600 --> 1:04:24.560 New York hates most, which are billionaires who spat off 1:04:24.600 --> 1:04:26.920 on Twitter all the time, and they're going to basically 1:04:27.000 --> 1:04:29.960 saying I'm gonna we are going to take not actually 1:04:30.040 --> 1:04:31.840 enough money to make it work, which is, by the way, 1:04:31.880 --> 1:04:34.360 a billion dollars that's what Bloomberg spent, but a totally 1:04:34.360 --> 1:04:36.520 trivile all amount of money, which isn't even enough because 1:04:36.520 --> 1:04:38.800 New York is so expensive, so big, Like you want 1:04:38.800 --> 1:04:40.200 to buy TV ads in New York, they're going to 1:04:40.240 --> 1:04:43.120 put like fifteen million dollars in. That's what like T 1:04:43.320 --> 1:04:46.360 mobile spends in like fifteen minutes. You know, Like it's 1:04:46.360 --> 1:04:48.600 just not it's not It might get you a couple 1:04:48.680 --> 1:04:53.000 of taxicab to try to bribe you to take some 1:04:53.280 --> 1:04:57.320 disgraced elderly gentleman, whether it's Adams or Cuomo. They're deciding 1:04:57.320 --> 1:05:00.320 which one to try to force down the throats of 1:05:00.360 --> 1:05:03.240 the kind of you know of New York voters who 1:05:03.240 --> 1:05:05.840 are kind of cynical about that exact move. Like I 1:05:05.840 --> 1:05:08.760 actually think when people saw flyers and saw TV ads 1:05:09.000 --> 1:05:13.000 from these super pecs supporting Cuomo, I think regular voters thought, oh, 1:05:13.000 --> 1:05:14.680 this is who the billionaires are. Sorry, this is the 1:05:14.680 --> 1:05:17.320 corrupt old guy the billionaires want us to vote for it. Like, 1:05:17.360 --> 1:05:20.280 I think that's a real dynamic and problem. And Mam 1:05:20.320 --> 1:05:23.800 Donnie like Trump, who was a very underfunded candidate in 1:05:23.840 --> 1:05:27.280 certain ways, pointed to the big money supporting his opponent 1:05:27.320 --> 1:05:29.240 and said, look at this, and people kind of got it. 1:05:30.320 --> 1:05:32.320 Yeah, I mean I never, I mean it was like, 1:05:32.400 --> 1:05:36.280 look at the choices. Never, And I don't know, is 1:05:36.280 --> 1:05:39.160 it is it just New York City is New York 1:05:39.160 --> 1:05:43.040 City government just not sexy enough for well intentioned people 1:05:43.040 --> 1:05:45.880 to run for. I mean, what happened to the woman 1:05:45.880 --> 1:05:51.880 who finished second? She seemed to me like, I go back. 1:05:51.960 --> 1:05:54.840 I'm I think the sanitation Department's the most impressive department 1:05:54.880 --> 1:05:56.920 in New York City. So you know, you're like, you 1:05:56.920 --> 1:05:59.160 know what, you get that done? All right? I'm just 1:05:59.240 --> 1:06:01.960 you know, I mean, you know it done well. 1:06:02.040 --> 1:06:04.600 She was a solid civil servant, widely viewed as either 1:06:04.640 --> 1:06:07.040 the second or third best sanitation commissioner of the last 1:06:07.080 --> 1:06:10.040 ten years. Like okay, we're not talking about like the 1:06:10.280 --> 1:06:12.640 and actually there were decent candidates. Brad Lander the controller, 1:06:12.760 --> 1:06:15.400 good candidate. There was like a young yimbie candidate the 1:06:15.640 --> 1:06:18.880 energy is on the left and Mamdani like captured. There 1:06:18.920 --> 1:06:21.120 was something. Really, this wasn't like an accident. He would 1:06:21.120 --> 1:06:24.000 have been I think in a different constellation with a 1:06:24.080 --> 1:06:27.480 stronger establishment contender than Ry Party. My Bay might still 1:06:27.480 --> 1:06:30.560 have one, like there was something, there was something really 1:06:30.600 --> 1:06:31.520 real happening there. 1:06:32.040 --> 1:06:36.680 If I Keem Jeffries weren't basically the next potential Democratic speaker, 1:06:37.080 --> 1:06:40.640 I think he is the candidate that people want to 1:06:40.720 --> 1:06:42.800 run for mayor now. I mean, although I think he's 1:06:42.840 --> 1:06:44.800 five years ago I thought, yeah, I thought he was 1:06:44.880 --> 1:06:46.320 going to that would be his next move. 1:06:46.720 --> 1:06:48.040 Yeah, he could have been. He is sort of an 1:06:48.120 --> 1:06:50.200 unknown figure in New York. It's interesting because he's a 1:06:50.280 --> 1:06:52.680 very important national figure, but he's not. He's he's always 1:06:52.680 --> 1:06:54.840 been a kind of behind the scenes player, not a 1:06:54.840 --> 1:06:57.959 public figure. But he's a classic legislative leader in that way. 1:06:58.440 --> 1:07:00.280 But I think he could probably walk down the read 1:07:00.320 --> 1:07:01.760 in many parts of New York and I own to 1:07:01.800 --> 1:07:02.000 know who. 1:07:02.040 --> 1:07:05.400 He was interesting, and that's just because he's just not 1:07:06.000 --> 1:07:09.640 forced himself to be a New York presence. Way even 1:07:09.640 --> 1:07:11.480 a Schumer did right, Schumer. 1:07:11.280 --> 1:07:17.000 Wanted Schumer is unmissible. Yeah, my favorite, my favorite line 1:07:17.000 --> 1:07:20.360 about Schumer, which is a John is a roast. John Corzin, 1:07:20.400 --> 1:07:24.240 then the Senator for for from New Jersey, said that 1:07:24.320 --> 1:07:27.240 the that that sharing a media market with Chuck Schumer 1:07:27.560 --> 1:07:30.160 was like sharing a banana with a monkey. First he 1:07:30.200 --> 1:07:32.880 eats the banana, then he flings his speces at you. 1:07:33.600 --> 1:07:36.760 Oh my god, that Schubert did not appreciate it. 1:07:37.120 --> 1:07:39.960 I'm sure he didn't. I'm sure he didn't. What is 1:07:40.280 --> 1:07:45.280 are you surprised he still wants to be the Senate leader? 1:07:45.360 --> 1:07:48.240 Like it does feel like he's staying past his cell 1:07:48.320 --> 1:07:50.800 by date. And when you stay past your cell by date, 1:07:50.840 --> 1:07:53.800 you risk, as Joe Biden is finding out, you risk 1:07:53.960 --> 1:07:56.640 really harming your own legacy unnecessarily. 1:07:58.240 --> 1:08:00.480 Yeah, I mean I think he probably feels like a 1:08:00.480 --> 1:08:02.280 lot of these got a lot of legislive leaders, in 1:08:02.320 --> 1:08:05.920 particular the Biden thing. Executives are different, but legislative leaders 1:08:06.400 --> 1:08:10.320 you do build this kind of very specialized skill set, 1:08:10.320 --> 1:08:13.480 which is these relationships with you know, fifty forty eight 1:08:13.560 --> 1:08:17.720 or fifty two very powerful, very eccentric people, and you 1:08:17.760 --> 1:08:19.800 think no one else could do this job. And like 1:08:19.840 --> 1:08:22.160 you see why he thinks that, right, Like, sure, that's 1:08:22.200 --> 1:08:23.760 a really strange, hard job. 1:08:23.880 --> 1:08:25.800 Like, no, it is because you are well you just 1:08:25.840 --> 1:08:29.759 described it well. Most of its time is talking people 1:08:29.800 --> 1:08:30.320 off cliffs. 1:08:30.400 --> 1:08:32.400 Yeah, like and right, and like, how do you get 1:08:32.479 --> 1:08:35.640 Chris Murphy ish shut up about Palestine today like I 1:08:35.640 --> 1:08:38.000 don't know, right, like like, but you do it because 1:08:38.040 --> 1:08:40.240 like there's this other thing in Connecticut, like who knows, 1:08:40.479 --> 1:08:43.600 but it's knowing that's kind of stuff about these specific 1:08:43.680 --> 1:08:45.840 people and then being able to raise tons of money. 1:08:45.840 --> 1:08:47.720 And so I think he probably thinks nobody else could 1:08:47.720 --> 1:08:48.200 do this job. 1:08:50.680 --> 1:08:54.880 If AOC runs for president, what you you sort of 1:08:55.160 --> 1:08:59.320 you know, are the very checked out of ten years 1:08:59.320 --> 1:09:01.600 ago would have said, nobody from New York City is 1:09:01.600 --> 1:09:03.120 going to be elected president the United States? 1:09:03.160 --> 1:09:06.760 Well, obviously much less a backbench socialists congresswoman. 1:09:07.000 --> 1:09:09.600 Right exactly, I'm not ruling anything out for all the 1:09:09.600 --> 1:09:12.960 reasons you just subscribed about, mom, Donnie, which is Trump. 1:09:13.120 --> 1:09:16.720 Trump did everything the exact opposite of what Republicans thought 1:09:16.760 --> 1:09:18.680 they should do in order to win in sixteen, and 1:09:18.720 --> 1:09:21.920 he won, and more importantly, he's reanimated a party. The 1:09:22.000 --> 1:09:24.880 Republican Party is now larger than the Democratic Party. And 1:09:24.920 --> 1:09:28.840 they did it by going harder right, not a softer right, 1:09:28.920 --> 1:09:31.880 which was of course what was Mitt Romney. The post 1:09:31.880 --> 1:09:34.120 Mitt Romney recommendation was no, no, no, no, you got to 1:09:34.120 --> 1:09:37.040 get softer. No. He went harder, and he diversified the 1:09:37.080 --> 1:09:40.120 party and he made it different. You know, for whatever 1:09:40.160 --> 1:09:42.960 you think, it's a different Republican party, but he changed it. 1:09:43.000 --> 1:09:45.440 He changed the electorate more than he's changed the elected officials. 1:09:45.720 --> 1:09:48.160 So I'm not going to sit here and say that. So, 1:09:49.600 --> 1:09:51.920 you know, what do you expect? What kind of national 1:09:51.920 --> 1:09:54.080 candidate do you expect her to be? And do you assume, 1:09:54.080 --> 1:09:59.240 by the way, how I assume she's running, do you 1:09:59.240 --> 1:09:59.479 you know? 1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:02.320 I guess I think that she's obviously she'd be crazy 1:10:02.400 --> 1:10:03.680 not to think hard about it. And I think part 1:10:03.680 --> 1:10:06.439 of it is, you know, she initially had a really 1:10:06.439 --> 1:10:09.040 I think hard time dealing with the spotlight. Like there 1:10:09.120 --> 1:10:10.559 was like you know, there were a lot of threats 1:10:10.560 --> 1:10:12.519 against her, A lot of that I think really rattled 1:10:12.560 --> 1:10:15.400 her personally and and and you saw her kind of 1:10:15.400 --> 1:10:18.240 step back. And I do think like running for president is, 1:10:18.520 --> 1:10:22.720 you know, you really changes your life forever. And I 1:10:22.720 --> 1:10:24.439 don't know where and I don't know where she is 1:10:24.439 --> 1:10:27.040 on that. I think that's a real consideration for anybody. 1:10:27.040 --> 1:10:29.320 And she may want family and this is like she 1:10:29.400 --> 1:10:33.439 had people family mode. People underestimate the extent to which 1:10:33.479 --> 1:10:35.720 like real personal decisions are a factor in it. I 1:10:35.800 --> 1:10:37.519 do think she shares with Trump at this point in fact, 1:10:37.520 --> 1:10:40.479 she's a real celebrity and that she's actually like better, 1:10:40.880 --> 1:10:42.679 She's better with this than people realize. 1:10:42.720 --> 1:10:44.800 Like people, I think she's want to I call her 1:10:44.880 --> 1:10:47.120 a politically I like to use the phrase political athlete. 1:10:47.320 --> 1:10:48.400 I think she's the real thing. 1:10:48.680 --> 1:10:51.080 Yeah, she's one of the best in a big. 1:10:51.040 --> 1:10:53.679 Room, in a small room. She also shares with Mom Donnie. 1:10:53.680 --> 1:10:56.360 And you know, people don't realize this because, like with Trump, 1:10:56.680 --> 1:10:59.479 she's out there talking all the time. Whatever the most 1:10:59.479 --> 1:11:02.879 divisive she says, it is get as with Trump, gets clipped. 1:11:03.240 --> 1:11:05.360 And so with Trump, what his enemy's missed was how 1:11:05.400 --> 1:11:07.479 funny he was. He's all you would see was some 1:11:07.479 --> 1:11:10.439 clip of him saying something like totally bananas. Half the time, 1:11:10.479 --> 1:11:13.120 it was in the context of a joke that the 1:11:13.280 --> 1:11:15.400 and part of the joke was that the media is 1:11:15.400 --> 1:11:16.960 going to clip this and take it out of context. 1:11:16.960 --> 1:11:19.400 But you, my true follower, are in on the joke 1:11:19.479 --> 1:11:22.479 with me, right, And so, like, I think people missed 1:11:22.520 --> 1:11:24.240 a lot of his appeal because they processed him through 1:11:24.240 --> 1:11:26.280 short clips and similarly theyoc you can find clips of 1:11:26.320 --> 1:11:30.360 her saying very very strident stuff. She's very she actually 1:11:30.400 --> 1:11:33.599 shares with Mom Donnie, like her style of communications is 1:11:33.640 --> 1:11:36.840 not hyper polarizing. It is about like try, it's not 1:11:36.960 --> 1:11:39.639 about finding the sort of buzziest buzzword. It's the most 1:11:39.640 --> 1:11:44.680 alienating way to speak to people. She's very, very talented, 1:11:45.040 --> 1:11:47.240 and I do think that the question is which I 1:11:47.240 --> 1:11:49.240 think with Mom Donnie, there was also a sense and 1:11:49.240 --> 1:11:51.640 I just like hear this from people who I have 1:11:51.720 --> 1:11:53.639 a very specific conversation with somebody we both know who's 1:11:53.680 --> 1:11:56.160 voting for Mom Donnie, that I was like legitimately shocked 1:11:56.160 --> 1:11:59.400 that she has voted for Mom Donnie last night. Yeah, 1:12:00.200 --> 1:12:02.040 like not a person of the left like at all, 1:12:02.200 --> 1:12:05.120 like a person of the you know, active person of 1:12:05.160 --> 1:12:09.280 the Democratic center. And I do think, you know, there's 1:12:09.320 --> 1:12:12.640 this sense of just like like this this is like 1:12:12.680 --> 1:12:15.080 the particularly after the sort of Biden train wreck, we 1:12:15.200 --> 1:12:18.120 got to sweep everything aside. We've got to the whole 1:12:18.160 --> 1:12:20.000 system is broken. We got to blow it up. We 1:12:20.040 --> 1:12:22.800 need new people. This guy is an instrument for that. 1:12:23.600 --> 1:12:25.040 And I think, you know, the question is how many 1:12:25.120 --> 1:12:26.040 Democratic voters. 1:12:26.640 --> 1:12:29.680 I remember a lot of Republicians, by the way, I 1:12:29.720 --> 1:12:31.640 heard a lot of Republican voters six and going, I 1:12:31.640 --> 1:12:33.519 don't I know who Trump is. I know he's full 1:12:33.520 --> 1:12:36.360 of shit, but you know what, Yeah, we need to 1:12:36.360 --> 1:12:39.360 blow this up, and he's he's going to blow it up, right, 1:12:39.720 --> 1:12:40.559 and they want it Like I. 1:12:40.479 --> 1:12:42.160 Don't like him, but he's a hand grenade and we're 1:12:42.160 --> 1:12:44.320 going to throw this into Washington, and Mom Donnie might 1:12:44.360 --> 1:12:48.160 be the hand grenade. Yeah, AOC or AOC is president 1:12:48.160 --> 1:12:51.120 presidential candidate. Like like I think that if you just 1:12:51.160 --> 1:12:53.840 hate everything, and you know that like all the like 1:12:53.840 --> 1:12:56.040 the sort of establishment hates her, that just like even 1:12:56.040 --> 1:12:58.040 if you think all our policies are dumb, you might 1:12:58.080 --> 1:13:00.720 you could imagine people thinking like, wow, she's really going 1:13:00.760 --> 1:13:02.400 to make those people on TV mad. 1:13:03.200 --> 1:13:05.960 Well, which is you know, I've I spent a lot 1:13:05.960 --> 1:13:08.639 of time in northwest Florida and which is a very 1:13:08.720 --> 1:13:12.360 conservative part of the conservative part of a conservative state. 1:13:12.920 --> 1:13:15.320 And you know, I've had people say, you know, Trump 1:13:15.400 --> 1:13:18.200 was my middle finger, you know, to all you guys, 1:13:18.360 --> 1:13:21.519 you know, and so in a form, you know, in 1:13:21.560 --> 1:13:22.840 a way, Mom Donnie could be that. 1:13:25.000 --> 1:13:26.040 I mean to put a point on it, though, I 1:13:26.080 --> 1:13:27.840 think the Democratic Party of your primer is going to 1:13:27.880 --> 1:13:28.719 start in South Carolina. 1:13:29.400 --> 1:13:31.200 You and I don't believe that. I don't believe that. 1:13:31.240 --> 1:13:33.320 I believe you go back to New Hampshire. 1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:35.880 I think, you know, I think it may stop Iowa. 1:13:36.479 --> 1:13:39.360 The likelihood Iowa a lexa democratic governors in the thirty 1:13:39.360 --> 1:13:42.160 to forty percent range. They have a legit guy, and 1:13:42.680 --> 1:13:44.960 it's kind of a mess on the right and it's 1:13:45.000 --> 1:13:47.439 the same sort of setup as what happened in Kansas. 1:13:47.600 --> 1:13:50.280 Everybody's pissed off about school funding. It's one of those 1:13:50.560 --> 1:13:53.960 hyper local school funding has. You know, all, here's the 1:13:54.000 --> 1:13:57.160 problem in these conservative states that are that are have 1:13:57.240 --> 1:14:00.840 a lot of rural areas. School choice in theory sounds good, 1:14:01.000 --> 1:14:03.080 but then if you live in certain areas, your choice 1:14:03.120 --> 1:14:07.320 is homeschool or the school right there isn't really a choice. 1:14:07.640 --> 1:14:10.880 And Iowa was always very proud of its public school system. 1:14:10.880 --> 1:14:12.960 I always always had a very strong one. When you 1:14:13.000 --> 1:14:15.800 look at those national rankings, it was like Massachusetts its one, 1:14:15.880 --> 1:14:18.880 Iowa was always in the top five. So yeah, and 1:14:18.960 --> 1:14:22.639 he's a pretty conservative d right, he knows his state, 1:14:22.680 --> 1:14:25.920 he was elected statewide. If he wins, I think the 1:14:26.000 --> 1:14:28.840 DNC goes back and sucks it up and realizes, you 1:14:28.920 --> 1:14:31.040 know what, it's better for the party to start in 1:14:31.080 --> 1:14:32.880 Iowa because you got to learn to talk to rural 1:14:32.960 --> 1:14:34.559 America and it's the right. 1:14:34.640 --> 1:14:36.400 Sure, and you're gonna have you know, you're you're going 1:14:36.479 --> 1:14:39.000 to have a bunch of like Josh Shapiro is out 1:14:39.040 --> 1:14:42.040 there like developing like kind of like Cornpone accents talking 1:14:42.040 --> 1:14:42.400 to world. 1:14:42.479 --> 1:14:45.879 Guess what figured it out and win the caucuses. 1:14:46.040 --> 1:14:49.000 Yeah, when the caucuses just like dominate to moins, it's 1:14:49.000 --> 1:14:51.720 like Obama emphasis, Yeah. And so I guess I think 1:14:51.760 --> 1:14:53.839 whether it starts there, I just think wherever it starts, 1:14:54.080 --> 1:14:56.080 you can kind of take because I think people always 1:14:56.120 --> 1:14:58.439 I mean, it's just the preaternal truth that people imagine 1:14:58.479 --> 1:15:01.080 in the national primary and the and it's really a narrative. 1:15:01.320 --> 1:15:04.200 And you can certainly tell yourself a story where AMC 1:15:04.400 --> 1:15:07.840 comes in, she wins Iowa, jses New Hampshire and then 1:15:07.880 --> 1:15:10.080 goes to South Carolina. And I think people like one 1:15:10.080 --> 1:15:12.040 of the really interesting things in the mom Donnie races 1:15:12.040 --> 1:15:15.439 that younger black voters are not voting like older black voters, And. 1:15:15.479 --> 1:15:17.760 Well, are we going to see that? We've never seen 1:15:17.800 --> 1:15:19.680 it yet in South Carolina? Will we see it? 1:15:19.720 --> 1:15:21.080 I don't know, right, but I think there is you 1:15:21.080 --> 1:15:23.519 could tell yourself a story where like you're starting to 1:15:23.560 --> 1:15:27.160 where there's this I think seasoned political hack reporters like 1:15:27.280 --> 1:15:30.360 us think like, you know what, like South Carolina is 1:15:30.400 --> 1:15:34.080 like mostly older, church going, more women, Black voters, and 1:15:34.080 --> 1:15:35.880 that's the only people who vote, and it pulls the 1:15:35.920 --> 1:15:37.200 party back towards the center. 1:15:37.680 --> 1:15:40.760 That's where Bernie Sanders went to die, right right. 1:15:41.400 --> 1:15:45.719 The progressives like just like fundamentally failed to connect with 1:15:45.800 --> 1:15:48.360 that group of kind of working people. They're more likely 1:15:48.400 --> 1:15:50.760 to have for Donald Trump than Bernie Sanders at some level. 1:15:51.360 --> 1:15:53.280 I don't know if that's an eternal truth. I think 1:15:53.320 --> 1:15:56.320 one of your seat mom, Donnie didn't beat Cuomo in 1:15:56.400 --> 1:15:57.880 black districts like Cuomo, but. 1:15:58.360 --> 1:15:59.719 He almost the mayor of Harlem. 1:15:59.880 --> 1:16:02.880 But he did went on to well, it's confusing because 1:16:02.960 --> 1:16:04.960 harlemsless black than he used to be about like it's 1:16:05.000 --> 1:16:08.240 the but but Mamdani picked up a lot of like 1:16:08.320 --> 1:16:13.679 younger and working votes, picked up a lot of South 1:16:13.720 --> 1:16:16.360 Asian votes, and then picked up and just he cut 1:16:16.439 --> 1:16:20.280 he he brought CMO's margins down in the places that 1:16:20.320 --> 1:16:23.720 Cuomo really needed to win with working black vote, with 1:16:23.800 --> 1:16:26.960 younger Black voters. And I think like maybe our sort 1:16:27.000 --> 1:16:29.759 of some of our assumptions about the way democratic politics 1:16:29.760 --> 1:16:31.519 work might be a little off and in a way 1:16:31.560 --> 1:16:32.800 that could favor the left. 1:16:33.320 --> 1:16:36.800 No, I'm i am. In some ways it's refreshing. I've 1:16:36.800 --> 1:16:39.560 never been more sort of like I'm I am operating 1:16:39.600 --> 1:16:42.920 on a you know, don't you know. Don't make any 1:16:42.960 --> 1:16:47.559 assumptions about previous history. Anything. Yeah, anything is possible. And 1:16:47.840 --> 1:16:50.439 here's the reality. The last three of the last four 1:16:50.479 --> 1:16:53.439 times the Democrats have elected a president, the person who 1:16:53.479 --> 1:16:56.120 won was not being talked about at this point in time. 1:16:56.120 --> 1:16:59.240 In the conversation in nineteen seventy three, nobody was talking 1:16:59.280 --> 1:17:02.000 about Jimmy Carter. In nineteen eighty nine, nobody was talking 1:17:02.040 --> 1:17:04.680 about Bill Clinton. And in two thousand and five, the 1:17:04.760 --> 1:17:07.360 Barack Obama conversation was a point, maybe he'll be Hillary 1:17:07.360 --> 1:17:10.320 Clinton's running me, you know, maybe he'll be or maybe 1:17:10.360 --> 1:17:12.280 he'll run for governor of Illinois and then run for 1:17:12.320 --> 1:17:15.519 president in twenty twelve, but they weren't. Fully it was 1:17:15.920 --> 1:17:18.559 really all about her, right, And so the point is 1:17:18.560 --> 1:17:22.000 is that, you know, and Pete Boodagic. Did anybody talk 1:17:22.000 --> 1:17:25.880 about Pete Bootaget after his failed DNC race other than 1:17:25.960 --> 1:17:28.280 he was really good on television interviews? Maybe you ought 1:17:28.280 --> 1:17:30.240 to do something more right, and all of a sudden 1:17:30.240 --> 1:17:35.599 he runs for president and look without COVID, I still 1:17:35.600 --> 1:17:38.559 think that thing comes down to Buddhajid and Sanders, not by. 1:17:41.320 --> 1:17:44.360 So who who aren't we talking about right now? 1:17:44.400 --> 1:17:46.400 Well, if we were talking about him, then they wouldn't 1:17:46.400 --> 1:17:49.360 be there right like in someone. But that's my point. 1:17:49.439 --> 1:17:52.760 I think I think it's possible somebody who comes close 1:17:52.800 --> 1:17:55.880 to winning but doesn't in twenty six you know, like 1:17:55.960 --> 1:17:59.240 betto O'Rourke in twenty eighteen, like you could picture, there's 1:17:59.280 --> 1:18:02.519 going to be different new candidates that can capture that 1:18:02.640 --> 1:18:07.679 all Rourke lost and had a enough juice to. 1:18:09.479 --> 1:18:09.960 The general. 1:18:11.640 --> 1:18:14.000 All right, here's the does he run for governor? 1:18:14.520 --> 1:18:16.479 How Eric Adams pulls it off and he runs for 1:18:16.520 --> 1:18:19.599 governor and just keeps running Yeah, yeah, and then runs 1:18:19.600 --> 1:18:22.759 for president? Right yeah, And I mean it's the point 1:18:22.840 --> 1:18:25.439 is that that's not a crazy notion that that you 1:18:25.439 --> 1:18:27.200 could see, you could see that happen. 1:18:27.320 --> 1:18:29.439 Final topic I want to hit with you and then 1:18:29.520 --> 1:18:32.840 I'll let you go, and that is I think the 1:18:32.880 --> 1:18:37.120 most fascinating issue in the in the next Democratic primary 1:18:37.240 --> 1:18:40.200 is going to be Israel and the divide and that 1:18:40.200 --> 1:18:45.200 that's going to be. That's going to be the divide 1:18:45.320 --> 1:18:47.920 that probably gets overcovered by people like you and I. 1:18:48.240 --> 1:18:50.800 Right the grid we're you know, we're we're probably going 1:18:50.840 --> 1:18:53.599 to over index on it, fairly or unfairly, but in 1:18:53.680 --> 1:18:55.559 some ways it will be when you. 1:18:55.479 --> 1:18:57.000 Say a lot like you and I, do you mean 1:18:57.439 --> 1:18:58.639 Jewish Jewish reporters? 1:18:59.080 --> 1:19:02.160 Well, I don't know, Right, that's the point, like, no 1:19:02.160 --> 1:19:04.840 matter what you know, suddenly our religion matters when we're 1:19:04.840 --> 1:19:07.799 covering that issue, but not others. But anyway, but I digress. 1:19:09.080 --> 1:19:12.240 But look, it's look, it's always been tough for Jewish 1:19:12.280 --> 1:19:15.439 Americans that like, hey, we think you know, you can 1:19:15.640 --> 1:19:18.479 not like BB and B pro Israel, right, the idea 1:19:18.520 --> 1:19:20.600 that there is a middle ground. But I don't know 1:19:20.640 --> 1:19:23.960 if if the Democratic primary electorate is willing to have 1:19:24.000 --> 1:19:26.400 that nuanced debate. And I think it just I just 1:19:26.439 --> 1:19:31.200 think it's going to be an unpredictable litmus test. And 1:19:31.240 --> 1:19:36.320 I don't know what what's the right answer as far 1:19:36.360 --> 1:19:38.160 as the politics of this going forward in the next 1:19:38.160 --> 1:19:38.719 couple of years. 1:19:38.800 --> 1:19:42.439 I mean, I think people who worked with Done end 1:19:42.520 --> 1:19:45.600 up thinking that the Israel stuff was a netlux the 1:19:45.680 --> 1:19:49.640 more net plus there's an anti Israel, that there is 1:19:49.680 --> 1:19:53.280 an anti Israel plurality or majority in that primary electorate. 1:19:53.680 --> 1:19:55.240 By the way, lots of Republicans say it is real 1:19:55.280 --> 1:19:58.080 too good news. So, like, I think it's a I 1:19:58.120 --> 1:19:58.960 think you'll see. 1:19:59.640 --> 1:20:05.160 You se populism. Every time there's a right of populism, 1:20:05.400 --> 1:20:08.960 the first people targeted are the Jews left or right. 1:20:09.040 --> 1:20:11.600 Well, yeah, that's yep for sure. No mean sort of 1:20:11.640 --> 1:20:13.840 tied up with this idea around it. Yeah, anyway, But 1:20:14.840 --> 1:20:16.800 and mom Donnie, on one hand, I think was really 1:20:16.880 --> 1:20:19.680 unfair like the like was in some ways unfairly accused 1:20:19.800 --> 1:20:24.000 of over at andty semitism, of having said globalized the 1:20:24.000 --> 1:20:25.840 antie fodo and in fact he gave like a very 1:20:25.880 --> 1:20:31.040 Bill Clintonian nonsense defense I've never said it whatever, Like 1:20:31.080 --> 1:20:32.559 it's not what he ran on. But on the other hand, 1:20:32.560 --> 1:20:36.360 he is a very like convict committed pro Palestine activist 1:20:36.479 --> 1:20:37.960 right like if for all his lean and can talk 1:20:38.000 --> 1:20:40.880 about these issues very surefootedly and fluently because he's been 1:20:40.880 --> 1:20:45.160 doing it for fifteen years. And and I think it's 1:20:45.320 --> 1:20:47.080 so I think, I mean, one question is how salient 1:20:47.120 --> 1:20:49.640 will be right, But I think right now it's a 1:20:49.720 --> 1:20:52.560 hugely salient issue and Democrats are increasingly andy Israel, and 1:20:52.600 --> 1:20:54.600 I think there's you're gonna have You're gonna think what 1:20:54.640 --> 1:20:56.679 I bet. I think you'll have a sort of normal 1:20:56.680 --> 1:21:00.639 democratic platform that when elected, I'm not going to cut 1:21:00.800 --> 1:21:02.360 you know, I'm not saying I'll cut funding the Israel, 1:21:02.400 --> 1:21:04.479 but I want to pause funding and do a review 1:21:04.800 --> 1:21:07.080 the way Trump just did with ukrit right, like we 1:21:07.120 --> 1:21:08.920 want to do We're gonna want to review how our 1:21:08.960 --> 1:21:11.080 age Israel is being used. I bet it's a formula 1:21:11.240 --> 1:21:15.200 like that, and you're going to see like that because like, yeah, 1:21:15.200 --> 1:21:16.320 I think you know, do you want to Are you 1:21:16.320 --> 1:21:17.439 going to keep funding the Netnia? 1:21:17.479 --> 1:21:20.160 Who wore? What does rama? Manually? Like this question that's 1:21:20.160 --> 1:21:22.760 been the you know, and when it comes. 1:21:22.400 --> 1:21:24.720 Close, he tries, he tries to threw the needle and 1:21:24.720 --> 1:21:25.200 it doesn't work. 1:21:25.240 --> 1:21:26.920 No, I agree, I don't know. 1:21:27.400 --> 1:21:29.479 But when I watched that news New York results came in, 1:21:29.520 --> 1:21:35.400 my first reaction was like by like, like, forget Rum's 1:21:35.439 --> 1:21:39.320 presidential campaign and AOC is gonna go, Wow, there's almost 1:21:39.320 --> 1:21:40.280 future cycles. 1:21:40.840 --> 1:21:43.479 Yeah, no, it's I it's one of, to me, the 1:21:43.520 --> 1:21:46.479 hardest hurdle for him to overcome, and there's nothing he 1:21:46.520 --> 1:21:47.360 can do about it. 1:21:47.800 --> 1:21:49.880 Right, And it reminds me a little of Trump in 1:21:49.880 --> 1:21:53.559 the Iraq War, right, like when he just said, like 1:21:53.640 --> 1:21:55.280 that war, you know, you're an idiot, that your brother 1:21:55.320 --> 1:21:57.080 was an idiot, that war was a terrible mistake or 1:21:57.120 --> 1:21:59.840 whatever he said, and it was sort of this unsayable 1:21:59.880 --> 1:22:02.799 thingying that turned out to be quite obviously popular inside 1:22:02.840 --> 1:22:05.559 that party. I think is real. I think just the 1:22:05.720 --> 1:22:08.799 partly it's just the nature of our incredibly polarized system 1:22:08.840 --> 1:22:12.760 that the more closer Trump hugs and Yahoo, the more 1:22:12.760 --> 1:22:15.040 idiou is Wrael the Democrats are going to become. And 1:22:15.120 --> 1:22:17.000 yet but also but also I think it's but I 1:22:17.000 --> 1:22:19.400 also think it's a feature of a sort of political 1:22:19.439 --> 1:22:22.720 media campaign to silence pro Bellstadian voices. Like obviously that 1:22:22.840 --> 1:22:25.800 is a real thing, and what you see, like if 1:22:25.800 --> 1:22:28.760 there's any lesson of like how does it work when 1:22:28.760 --> 1:22:31.600 the when powerful forces try to silence the speech like 1:22:32.040 --> 1:22:33.800 are we like we're like you know, how did how 1:22:33.800 --> 1:22:36.400 did that work? With vaccines? Like we're now like incredibly 1:22:36.640 --> 1:22:39.280 like an insanely anti vaccine country. Well, so I look 1:22:39.280 --> 1:22:40.840 at the deep platform, it's going to. 1:22:40.880 --> 1:22:43.760 Work, right, I've always said the biggest mistake trying to 1:22:43.800 --> 1:22:46.680 deplatform Trump. What did he do? He built his own ecosystem, 1:22:46.720 --> 1:22:48.800 and now everybody's panicked that there's an alternative US. 1:22:49.760 --> 1:22:51.640 I know, and I do think it's strange to me 1:22:51.720 --> 1:22:54.720 that the people who actually really won that fight, the 1:22:55.040 --> 1:22:59.080 people on the far right, the anti vaccine people, are 1:22:59.160 --> 1:23:02.960 now in many cases, like you, like, you know, are 1:23:03.000 --> 1:23:06.360 pushing very hard to silence voices they disagree with, not 1:23:06.400 --> 1:23:07.960 really understanding where this is going to go. 1:23:08.520 --> 1:23:10.120 No, I mean they're very very I think. 1:23:09.960 --> 1:23:11.439 It's gonna be a very I think it's going to 1:23:11.760 --> 1:23:15.479 lead to a huge Eddie Israel backlash they see. 1:23:16.040 --> 1:23:17.120 By the way you see it a little bit like 1:23:17.160 --> 1:23:19.519 you were, right, Like there's a lot of people on 1:23:19.560 --> 1:23:22.679 the right upset at Israel about the Syria bombing, right 1:23:22.880 --> 1:23:25.639 like that it was gratuitous and it was over the top. 1:23:25.880 --> 1:23:28.599 And you're starting to see and even Trump, WHOA, what's 1:23:28.640 --> 1:23:29.640 going on here? Right? Like? 1:23:29.720 --> 1:23:33.840 There is a you know, I mean MATC is a 1:23:33.880 --> 1:23:37.680 coalition that includes very very Provisrael people and like and 1:23:37.800 --> 1:23:40.600 real Eddie Summits, right, it's like a tough coalition to 1:23:40.640 --> 1:23:43.720 hold together, and people all across the spectrum. 1:23:43.960 --> 1:23:46.280 Right, at some point, I think this pressure is going 1:23:46.360 --> 1:23:49.960 to break BB in Israel, But we keep waiting for 1:23:50.000 --> 1:23:52.439 that over and over. I mean, I do find it. 1:23:52.760 --> 1:23:54.200 I guess there's a question of it is a non 1:23:54.240 --> 1:23:57.680 BB Israel. Can Democrats like find a way back to 1:23:57.720 --> 1:23:58.519 a non BB Israel? 1:23:58.600 --> 1:24:02.880 Kit? I don't know, Oh, I think so, But I mean, 1:24:03.160 --> 1:24:05.639 you know, I always find Israel. Let me I'll throw 1:24:05.680 --> 1:24:07.720 one more question at you. Do you think that Israel's 1:24:07.760 --> 1:24:11.080 politics is our future or did we export our politics 1:24:11.080 --> 1:24:14.240 to them? Meaning? You know, I find it interesting that 1:24:14.280 --> 1:24:19.519 bb IS has gotten more and more power while also 1:24:19.560 --> 1:24:22.760 becoming less and less popular. Donald Trump's got more and 1:24:22.840 --> 1:24:27.080 more popular powerful, but he's arguably just as unpopular as 1:24:27.080 --> 1:24:29.320 he was when he began right. In fact, we're starting 1:24:29.360 --> 1:24:34.920 to see. And yet the left in Israel tried all 1:24:34.920 --> 1:24:37.840 sorts of ways to stop BB. Right, they tried, and 1:24:37.880 --> 1:24:40.080 it's like same and you're watching the left here in 1:24:40.120 --> 1:24:42.280 this country try all sorts of ways to stop Trump 1:24:42.320 --> 1:24:44.800 and they've all failed. They tried in the lawsuit, they 1:24:44.840 --> 1:24:48.439 tried creating a centrist party that didn't work, right, Like, 1:24:48.479 --> 1:24:51.000 they've tried all these things. I look at Israel and 1:24:51.280 --> 1:24:55.439 BB and think, hey, the left, the anti Trump forces 1:24:55.479 --> 1:24:58.040 ought to spend more time studying the mistakes of the 1:24:58.080 --> 1:24:59.599 ANTIBB forces in Israel. 1:25:00.560 --> 1:25:02.680 What do you think that's fascinating? What do you think 1:25:02.680 --> 1:25:04.680 those mistakes were, Like, well, what was the alternative? 1:25:06.040 --> 1:25:08.240 Well, I think the I think the miss Well, first 1:25:08.280 --> 1:25:10.880 of all, the Israeli Labor Party just sort of collapsed 1:25:10.920 --> 1:25:14.080 after the after the Raben assassination, right, they never arguably 1:25:14.120 --> 1:25:18.000 never recovered from that. They had their own their own scandal. 1:25:18.000 --> 1:25:20.960 But I think the I think the assumption there was 1:25:21.000 --> 1:25:24.439 this assumption that somehow, the further the right that BB went, 1:25:25.000 --> 1:25:27.080 that it was going to alienate And the fact is 1:25:27.240 --> 1:25:34.080 it was, you know, BB being sort of always being tough, 1:25:35.400 --> 1:25:38.920 uh to those forces trying to sort of get rid 1:25:39.000 --> 1:25:41.680 of Israel was always going to be better politics than 1:25:41.720 --> 1:25:45.360 whatever problems were domestically. And I think, you know, for 1:25:45.479 --> 1:25:49.760 whatever reason, the two state solution just never resonated as 1:25:49.840 --> 1:25:51.679 much as I think the left thought it would. 1:25:52.439 --> 1:25:57.080 Yeah, I mean, I guess, I guess the the whatever, 1:25:57.800 --> 1:26:00.400 however serious you think the problems are with the imigration 1:26:00.520 --> 1:26:04.879 or the border, can't really talk yourself into a world 1:26:04.960 --> 1:26:07.080 where you're about to be pushed into the sea, right, 1:26:07.120 --> 1:26:09.479 which a lot of Israelis fear like the politics of 1:26:09.560 --> 1:26:11.920 fear in Israel are for like obvious reasons. 1:26:11.600 --> 1:26:13.120 It's real much more compelling. 1:26:13.160 --> 1:26:14.439 There's a lot more to be afraid of. 1:26:14.920 --> 1:26:16.720 No, And I think it's a it's been a very 1:26:16.760 --> 1:26:18.880 effective way for baby to keep just keep. 1:26:19.040 --> 1:26:20.760 And I wonder and I wonder if the I mean 1:26:20.800 --> 1:26:22.519 the sort of were to me like where this analogy 1:26:22.520 --> 1:26:26.360 breaks down as you see the numbers immrogration like flopping 1:26:26.360 --> 1:26:28.559 all over the place right now, like people were able 1:26:28.560 --> 1:26:30.720 to like, doesn't seem like people are so just sustaining 1:26:30.760 --> 1:26:33.960 their fear around immigration at all. I mean that I 1:26:33.960 --> 1:26:36.320 find that fascinating. I don't really know it. 1:26:36.880 --> 1:26:40.280 Uh what what's happening here on immigration? Yeah? 1:26:40.479 --> 1:26:43.200 Yeah, right now? I think like Trump's doing what he 1:26:43.240 --> 1:26:46.120 promised and it seems not popular. Wow, popular when he 1:26:46.160 --> 1:26:48.880 promised it, and he's seen it on the border. 1:26:49.360 --> 1:26:51.960 And but I think that was the mistake. The question 1:26:52.160 --> 1:26:55.599 was what were people upset about the border or or immigration? 1:26:55.640 --> 1:26:58.160 They were upset about the border, and I think I 1:26:58.200 --> 1:27:00.719 think that the you know, Stephen Miller or actually wants 1:27:00.760 --> 1:27:03.519 to you know, he had a different agenda, right He 1:27:03.680 --> 1:27:08.280 wanted to put he believed immigrants were taking jobs from Americans. 1:27:08.360 --> 1:27:11.160 I think fewer taco restaurants and more hands. 1:27:11.160 --> 1:27:15.760 That's right. He wants a more American culture, europe eurocentric 1:27:15.800 --> 1:27:19.160 American culture, and and so that is I think that's 1:27:19.200 --> 1:27:23.120 what's unpopular. I think the border security was popular. I 1:27:23.160 --> 1:27:26.040 think what was what was unpiped? You know, there's a 1:27:26.200 --> 1:27:28.640 there's I was reading something the other day about you know, 1:27:28.680 --> 1:27:32.599 sort of in some ways immigration, the politics of immigration 1:27:32.640 --> 1:27:37.320 have been exactly the same, which is, Americans love the 1:27:37.360 --> 1:27:40.519 immigrants that they know, and they and they don't. They 1:27:40.760 --> 1:27:43.320 don't like the immigrants they don't know. And that's always 1:27:43.360 --> 1:27:46.960 and which is ultimately why we don't why Americans are 1:27:47.000 --> 1:27:49.400 recoiling it. Why are you getting rid of these people 1:27:49.400 --> 1:27:52.840 that are are making chicken affordable? Why are you getting 1:27:52.920 --> 1:27:55.200 rid of these people that are making produce affordable? What 1:27:55.240 --> 1:27:58.320 are you doing? Hey, that person that cleans my house, 1:27:58.360 --> 1:28:01.960 she's really she's terrific, She's not a criminal. Why are 1:28:01.960 --> 1:28:04.759 you attacking her? Why are you scaring her? Right? I think, 1:28:05.040 --> 1:28:08.000 and ultimately we're still there. It's right. Look at how 1:28:08.000 --> 1:28:10.439 many times you can write the story of well, I 1:28:10.520 --> 1:28:13.360 voted for Trump, but I didn't want that immigrant to 1:28:13.400 --> 1:28:18.840 get deported. I like it, you know, one hundred percent, 1:28:18.920 --> 1:28:21.920 because he's a hotel person. He gets it. Every time 1:28:21.960 --> 1:28:25.600 he's been that argument's been made to him, he gets it. 1:28:25.680 --> 1:28:29.280 And I at some point, because the polls are showing 1:28:29.360 --> 1:28:32.360 this is not popular, The question I have is does 1:28:32.400 --> 1:28:35.240 he turn on Stephen Miller on this or does Stephen 1:28:35.280 --> 1:28:38.280 Miller realize is he smart enough to realize what's coming? 1:28:38.360 --> 1:28:40.439 And he sort of and he you know. 1:28:40.560 --> 1:28:42.479 Yeah, they just I mean, they just tasked all that 1:28:42.600 --> 1:28:46.000 money for Ice, right like, but I don't think more 1:28:46.040 --> 1:28:48.200 guys in mass chasing people around the interior is going 1:28:48.280 --> 1:28:49.879 to be a popular thing to do with it. 1:28:49.400 --> 1:28:51.800 It hasn't been the numbers to play. 1:28:51.800 --> 1:28:53.120 It's chasing journalists around. 1:28:53.240 --> 1:28:55.920 I mean John Alice's subsect, tod hat a terrific lead, 1:28:56.240 --> 1:28:59.679 which was Trump's never had gotten more of what he's 1:28:59.680 --> 1:29:02.800 wanted in six months, right, No president has gotten this 1:29:03.000 --> 1:29:05.320 much of what they've wanted in six months than him. 1:29:06.040 --> 1:29:08.360 By the way, have you noticed is how unpopular he 1:29:08.400 --> 1:29:08.920 is right now? 1:29:09.120 --> 1:29:10.519 Yeah? 1:29:10.560 --> 1:29:13.760 And it's across the board, right. None of his policies 1:29:13.760 --> 1:29:16.480 are seen as a net positive right now, not tariffs, 1:29:16.520 --> 1:29:18.679 not immigration, And you're just sitting there going. 1:29:19.720 --> 1:29:21.960 Weird weird country where we elect a guy who promises 1:29:22.000 --> 1:29:24.160 all these things and then it just immediately despised him 1:29:24.200 --> 1:29:24.720 when he does them. 1:29:24.760 --> 1:29:27.240 But isn't it proof we weren't voting for anything, We've 1:29:27.280 --> 1:29:29.360 just been voting against and this was like, now Biden 1:29:29.400 --> 1:29:31.200 and Harris didn't know what they were doing. Get them out? 1:29:31.320 --> 1:29:33.960 Yeah, yeah, all right. 1:29:33.680 --> 1:29:39.479 Well Semaphore for it? Who is? Let me close with this? 1:29:40.280 --> 1:29:43.160 Who is? I think every news organization you need to 1:29:43.200 --> 1:29:45.519 know who. You need to have somebody you compete with, 1:29:45.840 --> 1:29:48.320 even if you're not really a competitor. Who do you 1:29:48.439 --> 1:29:51.880 view as Semaphore's competitor? Is it? Is it The New 1:29:51.960 --> 1:29:57.240 York Times? Is it Axios? Is it BBC? Who is it? 1:29:58.439 --> 1:29:59.760 I mean, I think a lot of it the FT. 1:30:00.240 --> 1:30:03.720 I think that's a great publication, but also like a 1:30:03.760 --> 1:30:05.479 lot of gosh. I think they were found in the 1:30:05.560 --> 1:30:07.559 nineteenth century, so it was possible it was like the 1:30:07.600 --> 1:30:10.560 sixteenth being Britain. But I think there's an opportunity to 1:30:10.800 --> 1:30:14.240 build a kind of modern, caffeinated version of The Financial Times. 1:30:14.280 --> 1:30:16.720 And the other thing that I think we really see 1:30:16.720 --> 1:30:19.519 ourselves competing with is the World Economic Forum MEDABAS like 1:30:19.560 --> 1:30:24.280 that is a interesting fascinating institution that is, you know 1:30:24.439 --> 1:30:27.639 of also very root in the twentieth century. 1:30:28.560 --> 1:30:31.439 Are you worried at all about being too associated with 1:30:31.560 --> 1:30:34.920 the wealthiest of of folks? Do you know what I mean, 1:30:35.000 --> 1:30:37.160 Like when we're having this sort of weird, sort of 1:30:37.200 --> 1:30:39.320 populous moment frankly around the world. 1:30:40.560 --> 1:30:44.400 Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that would be a 1:30:45.120 --> 1:30:45.760 problem to have. 1:30:47.080 --> 1:30:48.160 That's a good problem. 1:30:48.439 --> 1:30:51.400 I mean, like like like if the if the peasants 1:30:51.400 --> 1:30:54.599 with pitchforks are gathering around Semaphore's headquarters, like that would 1:30:54.640 --> 1:30:58.280 be that means you've succeeded a great brand recognition for us. Yeah, 1:30:58.280 --> 1:30:59.479 I think we're not quite there yet. 1:31:00.240 --> 1:31:02.519 Do you think the wealthy realized the pitchforks are coming 1:31:02.520 --> 1:31:03.200 for them or not? 1:31:06.479 --> 1:31:09.519 You know, it's a the well, like the right now, 1:31:09.560 --> 1:31:11.280 Like I mean, somebody said this to me, like the 1:31:11.320 --> 1:31:15.200 thing you know, uh, the millionaires voted for mom Donny 1:31:15.240 --> 1:31:17.960 and the billionaires are the ones freaking out, Like I mean, 1:31:18.120 --> 1:31:20.120 it's a funny moment where that you also have these 1:31:20.200 --> 1:31:23.800 kind of billionaire populists like like, well, I don't know, 1:31:23.880 --> 1:31:26.360 it's it's a very I mean, I think obviously inequality 1:31:26.400 --> 1:31:28.439 is this huge threat in politics but the way in 1:31:28.479 --> 1:31:31.120 which the billionaires are now themselves these sort of aggrieved 1:31:31.160 --> 1:31:34.120 political actors is a really strange twist. Like I don't 1:31:34.120 --> 1:31:36.519 think that, Like I think Elon Musk and Bill Ackman 1:31:37.080 --> 1:31:39.479 earnestly consider themselves the voices of the people. 1:31:40.120 --> 1:31:43.520 Bill Ackman really thinks he's a victim. 1:31:43.680 --> 1:31:45.759 I mean, it's it's incredible to watch, But it's also 1:31:46.200 --> 1:31:48.360 these guys, they're sort of the fact that they now 1:31:48.360 --> 1:31:53.040 are sort of publicly intervening on behalf of these political candidates. 1:31:53.040 --> 1:31:55.000 I mean it's just poison politically. 1:31:55.000 --> 1:31:55.880 No, it really is. 1:31:55.960 --> 1:31:58.360 I mean, yeah, right, if we saw those like no 1:31:58.400 --> 1:32:00.880 one was the richest man in the world to bry 1:32:01.040 --> 1:32:03.520 to tell them how to vote. If people hate these people. 1:32:03.400 --> 1:32:07.280 Ask that poor conservative judge that Randon Wisconsin, please me 1:32:07.360 --> 1:32:10.880 your endorsement. Elsk, Yeah, literally made things worse. 1:32:11.160 --> 1:32:13.160 No, And I think right now this sort of the 1:32:13.360 --> 1:32:17.439 like whatever small hope, the very troubled but maybe possible 1:32:17.479 --> 1:32:20.840 Andrew Cuomo and Eric Adams campaigns had has basically been 1:32:20.840 --> 1:32:25.679 snuffed out by the panic of elite the like the 1:32:25.800 --> 1:32:30.599 whole narrative being like the elite billionaire, not even business owners, 1:32:30.640 --> 1:32:33.720 not people who operate, not New York employers. We're not 1:32:33.760 --> 1:32:35.920 talking about like I mean, I'm sure the CEO of 1:32:35.960 --> 1:32:38.320 Pfizer is freaking out too, But we're talking about money. 1:32:38.320 --> 1:32:41.200 You know, hedge fund managers and short sellers who spend 1:32:41.439 --> 1:32:43.280 who often spend like one hundred and seventy nine days 1:32:43.280 --> 1:32:45.840 in the cities that are to pay local taxes are 1:32:45.920 --> 1:32:49.160 having these huge public freakouts. These are not beloved specific leaders. 1:32:49.760 --> 1:32:53.120 You know, Jessica Tish were on the ballot, would she 1:32:53.240 --> 1:32:54.679 be the would she be the next mayor? 1:32:56.439 --> 1:32:58.320 Yeah, I think she probably would have been had I 1:32:58.320 --> 1:33:00.320 think had she I think it's late now, but I 1:33:00.360 --> 1:33:02.200 think had she gotten in initially, she'd be a very 1:33:02.200 --> 1:33:02.880 strong candidate. 1:33:02.920 --> 1:33:06.519 I mean, she's Yeah, you're surprised she didn't get pushed 1:33:06.520 --> 1:33:09.280 into this by like a Bloomberg who could have probably 1:33:09.320 --> 1:33:09.960 talked her into it. 1:33:10.760 --> 1:33:12.120 You know, I don't know, She's not somebody else who 1:33:12.200 --> 1:33:14.559 can be talked to to anything, because she she need 1:33:14.600 --> 1:33:17.880 to be. Yeah, she has her own money too, she said. 1:33:17.880 --> 1:33:19.799 You know, it's funny because there is a great tradition 1:33:19.920 --> 1:33:22.639 in New York of the city being and this isn't 1:33:22.680 --> 1:33:24.960 a very small de democratic tradition. But if you think 1:33:25.000 --> 1:33:27.439 about there was a period where New York was kind 1:33:27.439 --> 1:33:30.040 of run by the science of these great New York 1:33:30.080 --> 1:33:32.799 mostly kind of our crowd Jewish families, the Morgan Thaws, 1:33:33.520 --> 1:33:37.120 Robert Moses, like, who felt to some degree like they 1:33:37.160 --> 1:33:40.040 owned the place because they did and operated with a 1:33:40.120 --> 1:33:43.920 level of kind of no bless Obliege actually, and she's 1:33:43.960 --> 1:33:46.439 certainly the inheritor. And I think that's actually a great tradition, 1:33:46.560 --> 1:33:48.840 Like it's some problems with it, but like there's something 1:33:48.880 --> 1:33:52.519 nice about that tradition of people who really feel a 1:33:52.560 --> 1:33:55.080 commitment to the civic life of the city and feel 1:33:55.120 --> 1:33:57.920 grateful and feel a level of gratitude about what they 1:33:57.960 --> 1:34:01.920 were given and are incredible, intense, hard working public servants. 1:34:01.960 --> 1:34:06.000 And she was showing up at four am for Sanateasian 1:34:06.080 --> 1:34:09.160 roll calls when she was a great sanitation commissioner, Like 1:34:09.240 --> 1:34:14.360 she sort of embodies that. I think, like he's a tough, driven, 1:34:14.640 --> 1:34:20.600 driving manager that's not always the personality type of a politician. 1:34:20.960 --> 1:34:22.639 And I think there's a question of does she want 1:34:22.720 --> 1:34:26.000 the political job, but she I think, you know, people 1:34:26.200 --> 1:34:29.599 think she's doing a pretty good job running government agencies 1:34:29.640 --> 1:34:31.760 she runs, so I assume she wants to be mare 1:34:31.760 --> 1:34:32.599 at some point she can. 1:34:32.520 --> 1:34:34.320 Be I was just going to say, two of the 1:34:34.320 --> 1:34:38.080 most difficult ones can be police commissioner, sanitation, and the 1:34:38.120 --> 1:34:40.559 only other tough one I would argue before Mayor would 1:34:40.560 --> 1:34:45.799 be the education ahead because that has had its moments 1:34:46.240 --> 1:34:47.920 as well. So the fact that she's. 1:34:48.240 --> 1:34:51.519 Thing it with Dora and Mamdane, like yeah, and that's 1:34:51.520 --> 1:34:52.880 the things where I'm done. He's going to like or 1:34:52.920 --> 1:34:55.200 whoever is married. It's one hundred and twenty billion dollar budget, 1:34:55.640 --> 1:34:57.559 and you just like the schools either to get better, 1:34:57.560 --> 1:35:00.800 they're going to get worse, and the cities in the 1:35:00.800 --> 1:35:03.160 subways can get more or less dangerous. Like it's an immediate, 1:35:03.640 --> 1:35:06.880 constant crisis of a job. It's not an ideological sort 1:35:06.880 --> 1:35:09.080 of like the gard person get picked up or it's 1:35:09.080 --> 1:35:12.519 not and one one snowstorm goes wrong like that's the end. 1:35:12.640 --> 1:35:15.880 So yeah, well, Ben, this was I so glad. I 1:35:15.880 --> 1:35:18.840 feel like you're a you're a real New York City 1:35:18.960 --> 1:35:21.519 sort of savant. I don't know what else to call it. 1:35:21.600 --> 1:35:22.360 Like take that. 1:35:22.400 --> 1:35:25.599 It's like that's genuinely the nicest thing you could possibly 1:35:25.600 --> 1:35:27.640 have said about me, So I really appreciate it. 1:35:27.680 --> 1:35:29.559 That's like, oh, you love it's been fishing for it 1:35:29.600 --> 1:35:31.800 because you do you love the city, right, I mean 1:35:31.840 --> 1:35:33.640 you do. You feel like you're of the city and 1:35:33.680 --> 1:35:34.760 you're never gonna leave it, are you? 1:35:35.320 --> 1:35:37.519 No? I think I'm not. I'm stuck here. 1:35:38.360 --> 1:35:40.720 Now I get it. I get it. It's not you know. 1:35:40.920 --> 1:35:42.360 I grew up in the six Borough of New York. 1:35:42.400 --> 1:35:43.160 It's called Miami. 1:35:44.640 --> 1:35:46.439 It's always so fun to talk to you, Jeh. Thank 1:35:46.479 --> 1:35:47.719 you for thanks for my friend. 1:35:48.000 --> 1:35:50.920 Well, I love Sanmophart. By the way, I subscribe. My 1:35:51.080 --> 1:35:55.240 favorite two newsletters to read actually this was are the 1:35:55.280 --> 1:35:58.840 Africa Newsletter and the Gulf States Newsletter, because. 1:35:58.640 --> 1:36:00.879 Lad, I think we're doing. I think those are very hard. 1:36:00.720 --> 1:36:05.520 To match because they're yeah, exactly, I get that information 1:36:05.760 --> 1:36:10.040 nowhere else, nowhere else, a little like you're right about 1:36:10.040 --> 1:36:12.400 the ft every once in a while ft, you know, 1:36:12.439 --> 1:36:14.600 but not like what you guys are doing. And just 1:36:15.040 --> 1:36:19.000 I always feel uninformed about Africa. This newsletter has made 1:36:19.000 --> 1:36:22.880 me feel much more informed about a continent that we're 1:36:23.479 --> 1:36:28.320 the most news organizations ignore. So kudos and like I said, 1:36:28.400 --> 1:36:30.759 keep it up and keep it free for us independent people. 1:36:31.560 --> 1:36:32.320 Well, thank you, Jef. 1:36:43.479 --> 1:36:46.640 Hope you enjoyed that conversation. With Ben Smith. I always 1:36:46.880 --> 1:36:50.559 I always learn something from him, and I enjoy debating 1:36:50.600 --> 1:36:54.720 him about all sorts of intricate ways to deal with 1:36:54.760 --> 1:36:57.800 the press and media, et cetera. But let's do a 1:36:57.840 --> 1:37:03.519 little last Chuck. Ask Chuck. We got a lot of them. 1:37:03.560 --> 1:37:06.000 I'm going to try to get through four or five 1:37:06.080 --> 1:37:08.560 questions instead of just doing two or three. But a 1:37:08.600 --> 1:37:10.280 lot of it depends on how much I ramble on. 1:37:10.400 --> 1:37:10.599 Right. 1:37:11.479 --> 1:37:16.000 This one comes from Matt j South Windsor, Connecticut, and 1:37:16.040 --> 1:37:18.040 he says, Hey, I found the Chuck podcast after hearing 1:37:18.080 --> 1:37:20.679 your convo with Chris Salissa really enjoyed it. All right, 1:37:20.840 --> 1:37:23.120 look at that selizza. You got me another. You got 1:37:23.120 --> 1:37:26.439 me a podcast listener. I appreciate it. He goes, I'm 1:37:26.439 --> 1:37:28.600 a lapsed Red Sox fan, but you're talking about the 1:37:28.680 --> 1:37:30.920 Nationals got me thinking about baseball again. With two MLB 1:37:31.000 --> 1:37:34.519 teams still playing in minor league parks? Is this a 1:37:34.600 --> 1:37:37.400 Rob Manfred problem? Has he lost the will or ability 1:37:37.439 --> 1:37:40.360 to hold owners to basic league standards? If teams like 1:37:40.400 --> 1:37:42.719 Tampa and Oakland can operate like this, is the sport 1:37:42.760 --> 1:37:45.920 really sustainable long term best? Matt Jay, I plead you 1:37:45.920 --> 1:37:48.400 asked this question. I go hot and cold on Manfred. 1:37:48.960 --> 1:37:52.320 I do think you've got to give Manfred credit for 1:37:52.439 --> 1:37:56.320 the rules changes, right, So you know, we sit here, 1:37:57.560 --> 1:38:00.719 I think we if you're a baseball fan, your program 1:38:00.760 --> 1:38:03.000 to hate the commissioner. Right, we all hated Bud Ceiling. 1:38:03.479 --> 1:38:05.559 And then like the longer you go, you're like, well, 1:38:05.760 --> 1:38:08.960 well he really messed up ninety four. But you know, jeez, 1:38:08.960 --> 1:38:10.719 the wild card was turned out to be a pretty 1:38:10.760 --> 1:38:12.559 good idea, and this turned out to be a pretty 1:38:12.600 --> 1:38:15.439 good idea. And you know, he got baseball back to 1:38:15.520 --> 1:38:18.160 DC and he got baseball into Miami. You know, these 1:38:18.160 --> 1:38:19.840 are two things I didn't think was going to happen. 1:38:21.479 --> 1:38:24.240 And with Manfred, I there's a part of me that says, yeah, 1:38:24.280 --> 1:38:27.320 I think the you know, I put it this way. Look, 1:38:27.320 --> 1:38:30.880 Manfred was also chief legal counsel even before he became commissioner. 1:38:32.400 --> 1:38:34.640 When I look at the state at baseball, where I 1:38:34.680 --> 1:38:38.160 get angry as a baseball fan is that is the 1:38:38.240 --> 1:38:44.120 fact that the owners canceled the World Series and still 1:38:44.160 --> 1:38:47.799 didn't get a salary cap. I mean, if you're going 1:38:47.840 --> 1:38:51.479 to basically do the worst thing you could do to 1:38:51.520 --> 1:39:00.720 your sport, you better get a financial struck. Sure, that 1:39:00.840 --> 1:39:05.599 is sustainable for a generation and they didn't do it. Look, 1:39:05.680 --> 1:39:10.080 Baseball it is, you know, the Baseball Union is is 1:39:10.160 --> 1:39:13.000 easily the most powerful players union. And by the way, 1:39:13.040 --> 1:39:14.880 as we're finding out, if you're if you're following my 1:39:14.880 --> 1:39:18.360 friend Pablo torre Uh and Pablo Tory finds out, the 1:39:18.479 --> 1:39:22.280 NFL p A is probably the worst of the players unions. 1:39:22.640 --> 1:39:24.759 And part of that has to do with baseball players 1:39:25.360 --> 1:39:28.799 are more likely to have longer careers than football players, 1:39:28.880 --> 1:39:31.800 and I think the football players the players don't get 1:39:31.800 --> 1:39:35.960 as active in the union until until they have more 1:39:36.000 --> 1:39:38.120 than a cup of coffee in the NFL, and so 1:39:38.280 --> 1:39:40.559 that's it's a lot of players that don't end up, 1:39:40.640 --> 1:39:43.080 you know. So I think it's it's unfortunately the the 1:39:43.400 --> 1:39:45.640 owners have had a way to sort of take advantage 1:39:46.479 --> 1:39:49.960 of that a little bit, and they it is the 1:39:50.080 --> 1:39:54.639 nfl PA, you know. I think when Damar Smith was there, 1:39:54.960 --> 1:39:57.719 he tried to be a bit tougher with the owners. 1:39:58.320 --> 1:40:00.720 You know, the owners always sort of had control of 1:40:00.760 --> 1:40:05.080 the NFLPA when Gene Upshaw, and he was always considered 1:40:05.120 --> 1:40:08.240 sort of you know, secretly always in the in the 1:40:08.880 --> 1:40:12.120 always a bit too easy to deal with with the owners, 1:40:12.200 --> 1:40:14.680 right not as not as not as pro player as 1:40:14.680 --> 1:40:17.360 he could be on that front. And that's sort of 1:40:17.400 --> 1:40:20.480 been the reputation of the NFL P a versus the MLBPA. 1:40:21.720 --> 1:40:23.760 But when I look at the fact that baseball is 1:40:23.800 --> 1:40:27.280 about to go through another tough situation, and they do 1:40:27.360 --> 1:40:30.080 have a mess on their hands. Okay, the TV deals, 1:40:30.600 --> 1:40:32.280 you know, and this, and the question is is this 1:40:32.400 --> 1:40:36.760 on Manfred right? The two minor league stadiums. You know, 1:40:36.840 --> 1:40:39.000 I do think the owners need to get control, you know, 1:40:39.040 --> 1:40:44.000 but this is because they don't share revenue equally. They 1:40:44.040 --> 1:40:47.160 don't seem to be as concerned when they have crappy owners. 1:40:47.479 --> 1:40:51.960 Right in the NFL, they got tired of crappy owner 1:40:52.000 --> 1:40:56.320 Dan Schneider, And eventually, essentially it was driven by the 1:40:56.400 --> 1:40:59.559 late Jim Mersey, right. He he he gave voice to 1:40:59.640 --> 1:41:03.080 what was a growing majority opinion of those owners. But 1:41:03.360 --> 1:41:06.960 because the NFL owners are essentially equal shareholders, when one 1:41:07.120 --> 1:41:10.439 is not when one is dropping the ball, right, And 1:41:10.479 --> 1:41:13.120 you know what really irritated the owners about Dan Schneiders 1:41:13.160 --> 1:41:17.799 he was they found out he was withholding ticket revenue, 1:41:18.720 --> 1:41:24.000 the visitor team ticket revenue, that he was keeping more 1:41:24.000 --> 1:41:26.400 of it than he should it's money out of the 1:41:26.439 --> 1:41:31.000 owner's pockets. So with baseball, because of the disparity, right, 1:41:31.520 --> 1:41:34.000 the Yankees and the Dodgers don't care if the Rays 1:41:34.040 --> 1:41:37.679 and the A's are mismanaged, right, or have bad ownership groups, 1:41:37.760 --> 1:41:40.439 or have bad relationships with their But if they were 1:41:40.479 --> 1:41:43.960 all equal partners and there was a little bit more, 1:41:44.439 --> 1:41:47.479 you know, and then then there would be I think, 1:41:47.560 --> 1:41:50.840 a better policing by the owners and therefore the commissioner. 1:41:51.320 --> 1:41:55.920 When you have weak owners and the fact is the 1:41:55.960 --> 1:41:59.280 a the ownership of the A's is a mess. Should 1:41:59.280 --> 1:42:01.439 have been forced to say sooner, should have should have 1:42:01.479 --> 1:42:06.439 inserted itself into that situation and did it with Tampa Bay. 1:42:06.600 --> 1:42:12.040 And look, I see the mismanaged the ownership structure of 1:42:12.120 --> 1:42:16.080 Florida multiple times, right, First it was the garbage man. 1:42:16.160 --> 1:42:19.479 Then it was the diamond dealer from Marlins fans, they'll 1:42:19.479 --> 1:42:22.919 know who I'm referring to say it that, but you know, literally, 1:42:23.000 --> 1:42:27.439 they gave a free franchise. They gave an owner handed 1:42:27.439 --> 1:42:29.559 the he was the owner of the exposed They didn't 1:42:29.560 --> 1:42:32.240 want him owning the team, you know, moving the team 1:42:32.280 --> 1:42:35.200 to DC and staying the owner. But they couldn't take 1:42:35.200 --> 1:42:37.960 a team so they traded teams right, and then the 1:42:38.040 --> 1:42:40.760 league took over the Expos franchise and sold it to 1:42:40.760 --> 1:42:44.840 the Learners, and then they gave the Diamond broker the 1:42:44.840 --> 1:42:50.360 Marlins franchise. So I do think that that if you 1:42:50.479 --> 1:42:56.080 believe Manfred has this power, they're there. They've done a 1:42:56.120 --> 1:43:00.280 bad job of policing bad owners and now they have 1:43:00.320 --> 1:43:02.960 new ownership. They did finally force to sail in Tampa, 1:43:03.640 --> 1:43:07.400 so you know, so they are working to try to 1:43:07.400 --> 1:43:11.040 fix that situation. But they didn't in Oakland. And I 1:43:11.120 --> 1:43:14.479 have to tell you I feel this way about on 1:43:14.600 --> 1:43:16.519 the Oakland front as I do about what happened to 1:43:16.520 --> 1:43:22.519 the Chargers. I think the leagues should be better partners 1:43:22.520 --> 1:43:26.360 when it comes to stadium financing. It was pretty clear 1:43:26.840 --> 1:43:30.840 that Oakland had a fan base for baseball, but the 1:43:30.880 --> 1:43:35.120 city of Oakland and the County of Alameda wasn't interested 1:43:35.160 --> 1:43:38.559 in chipping in money. Just like in San Diego, the 1:43:38.600 --> 1:43:40.880 owner of the Chargers couldn't get the community to vote 1:43:40.960 --> 1:43:45.479 for essentially giving taxpayer subsidies to the NFL owner. So 1:43:45.960 --> 1:43:49.280 the NFL decides to take a franchise away from San 1:43:49.320 --> 1:43:52.599 Diego rather than they could have financed the stadium. They 1:43:52.640 --> 1:43:55.200 could have turned it into an incredible stadium that was 1:43:55.240 --> 1:43:59.439 a showcase and a host of a Super Bowl. Over time, 1:44:00.160 --> 1:44:03.400 the owner essentially pay back right. They could have essentially 1:44:03.479 --> 1:44:05.160 been the banker for the owner, if you will, or 1:44:05.200 --> 1:44:10.160 the partner with the owner, and they'd have a franchise 1:44:10.200 --> 1:44:15.120 that wasn't a zombie franchise. The Chargers have zero, Uh, 1:44:15.680 --> 1:44:18.639 they have no fan base in LA. Both the Raiders 1:44:18.640 --> 1:44:23.000 in Las Vegas and the Rams have more fans in LA. Frankly, 1:44:23.320 --> 1:44:26.120 you know than than than this. You know, the Steelers 1:44:26.120 --> 1:44:28.960 probably have more fans in LA than the Chargers. The 1:44:29.000 --> 1:44:31.200 Packers probably have more fans in LA than the Charge 1:44:31.360 --> 1:44:33.479 than the Chargers, and the Cowboys probably have more fans 1:44:33.479 --> 1:44:36.240 in LA than the Chargers. But San Diego is a 1:44:36.240 --> 1:44:38.879 great football town, and I think the same with Oakland 1:44:39.360 --> 1:44:42.360 and major League Baseball. Had the revenue, they could have 1:44:42.360 --> 1:44:46.559 stepped up. And you know, let's see how you know, 1:44:46.640 --> 1:44:50.599 the the the management of the regional media and all 1:44:50.600 --> 1:44:52.679 of that, and the fact that that's not as shared 1:44:52.720 --> 1:44:55.360 as it is in the NFL. It has created sort 1:44:55.400 --> 1:44:59.320 of haves and have nots in baseball. I'm a believer 1:44:59.479 --> 1:45:03.640 that baseball can support thirty two franchises, but not with 1:45:03.760 --> 1:45:06.840 this current financial structure, not where the Dodgers can do 1:45:06.880 --> 1:45:08.920 one thing, but the Twins are limited in what they 1:45:08.920 --> 1:45:12.599 can do. And so if you've got a situation like that, 1:45:12.680 --> 1:45:15.320 you have to blame the ownership, and you had to, 1:45:15.640 --> 1:45:18.000 you know, and who works for the owners? Manford works 1:45:18.000 --> 1:45:24.280 for the owners. But you know, I, like I said, 1:45:24.439 --> 1:45:26.880 I do, I am glad Manford made the rules changes 1:45:26.920 --> 1:45:30.240 because it's really helped baseball. But I do think you 1:45:30.320 --> 1:45:32.880 really do have to hold both of both Manfred and 1:45:32.960 --> 1:45:38.320 Sealing responsible for not dealing with a situation that we 1:45:38.360 --> 1:45:41.559 all saw coming that the baseball finances and the lack 1:45:41.600 --> 1:45:44.200 of a salary cap was going to create more and 1:45:44.240 --> 1:45:50.240 more problems, and it has, and so but I don't 1:45:50.320 --> 1:45:52.759 know if a different commissioner would have made things any differently, 1:45:52.760 --> 1:45:55.559 because ultimately this is an owner issue, and until the 1:45:55.600 --> 1:46:00.120 owners of the Yankees and Dodgers care about whether the 1:46:00.120 --> 1:46:02.960 Oakland A's or whatever we're going to call him right now, 1:46:02.960 --> 1:46:06.120 the Sacramento A's and the Tampa Bay Rays are well 1:46:06.160 --> 1:46:09.160 won France. Until they're incentivized to care how well run 1:46:09.200 --> 1:46:12.200 other franchises are, I don't know if baseball is going 1:46:12.240 --> 1:46:17.720 to be able to fix itself without having another catastrophic 1:46:17.760 --> 1:46:20.400 work stoppage, which I do think is coming soon. I 1:46:20.479 --> 1:46:21.800 bet you you didn't think I was going to have 1:46:21.920 --> 1:46:25.480 that strong and long of an opinion on that one. 1:46:25.600 --> 1:46:27.840 But there you go. You teed me up on that one, 1:46:27.840 --> 1:46:33.400 all right. Next question, this comes from Dylan R. From Lebanon, Pennsylvania, 1:46:33.400 --> 1:46:34.960 and he asked this, do you think we will ever 1:46:35.000 --> 1:46:37.479 see a US sitting president ever get primaried and lose? 1:46:37.600 --> 1:46:39.599 I know we were close with Ford and seventy six 1:46:40.240 --> 1:46:43.960 Carter in eighty. Well never say never. You know. One 1:46:44.000 --> 1:46:47.479 of the one thing we'd never seen until we finally 1:46:47.479 --> 1:46:50.479 saw it was a sitting governor losing a primary. That 1:46:50.600 --> 1:46:55.559 happened to Frank Murkowski, Lisa Murkowski's father, and it actually 1:46:55.560 --> 1:46:59.360 happened due to Frank Murkowski's decision to appoint his daughter 1:46:59.439 --> 1:47:02.840 to the Senate. I know, for many Lisa Murkowski is 1:47:02.880 --> 1:47:06.800 considered a maverick and in some ways a hero to 1:47:06.880 --> 1:47:12.920 many independent minded voters. But I guess you could call 1:47:12.920 --> 1:47:15.600 her a NEPO baby. But that became an issue, and 1:47:15.640 --> 1:47:18.799 a woman named Sarah Palin beat Frank Murkowski in a primary, 1:47:18.800 --> 1:47:23.720 and it looked defeating any executive in a primary extraordinarily hard. 1:47:24.880 --> 1:47:27.280 You know, you could argue that LBJ was going to 1:47:27.280 --> 1:47:29.280 get defeated in the primaries, which is why he ended 1:47:29.320 --> 1:47:32.479 up not running, right even though he won. People forget 1:47:32.520 --> 1:47:35.559 that LBJ win or lose the sixty eight New Hampshire primary. 1:47:35.880 --> 1:47:40.160 Most people if you think he actually lost, But he 1:47:40.200 --> 1:47:42.080 actually he won the primary. He just didn't win it 1:47:42.080 --> 1:47:44.599 by a big enough margin. It was just amazing that 1:47:44.640 --> 1:47:49.720 the sitting president barely could beat clean for Jean McCarthy 1:47:50.200 --> 1:47:55.880 by less than ten points. So I think if a 1:47:55.920 --> 1:47:58.519 sitting president is vulnerable to losing in a primary, they're 1:47:58.560 --> 1:48:02.559 more likely to step down right as we saw with LBJ, 1:48:04.520 --> 1:48:08.680 than not. But I don't know. I think our politics 1:48:08.720 --> 1:48:12.040 are so disruptive right now, and I you know, one 1:48:12.080 --> 1:48:14.200 of the things that I'm looking for I think I 1:48:14.240 --> 1:48:15.960 think this is going to be one of those years 1:48:16.000 --> 1:48:19.840 where we see a surprising number of incumbents lose primaries. 1:48:21.200 --> 1:48:25.120 So I know it doesn't really answer your question, but 1:48:25.120 --> 1:48:27.120 I think we're in a period. If we're ever going 1:48:27.160 --> 1:48:31.800 to see a sitting president somehow losing a primary, it's 1:48:31.800 --> 1:48:38.600 going to be in this era if you will. But boy, 1:48:38.640 --> 1:48:42.400 you know, it is hard to make happen because presidents, 1:48:42.800 --> 1:48:47.080 once they become president, they become the establishment and they 1:48:47.120 --> 1:48:51.360 sort of control the infrastructure and can make it extraordinarily 1:48:51.400 --> 1:48:54.479 difficult to to you know, get the delegates you need 1:48:54.520 --> 1:48:56.240 and things like that. But I think if you're so 1:48:56.360 --> 1:48:59.680 vulnerable you could lose a primary with voters, you're going 1:48:59.720 --> 1:49:03.880 to see. Uh, these guys quit before they would actually 1:49:03.880 --> 1:49:07.800 go through with it. All right. This one comes from 1:49:07.800 --> 1:49:10.160 Greg parts On known. Hey, Chuck, where does all the 1:49:10.160 --> 1:49:12.280 tariff money go? There must be billions coming in, but 1:49:12.320 --> 1:49:14.360 who collects in and who controls it? It seems like 1:49:14.360 --> 1:49:17.400 the dollar stream that's just begging for Shenanigans love the cast. Greig. No, 1:49:17.520 --> 1:49:21.760 it's like tax revenue. It comes into the treasury and 1:49:21.840 --> 1:49:25.080 so and in fact, they they want to use it 1:49:25.120 --> 1:49:27.839 to sort of and they've been talking, you know, Trump's 1:49:27.880 --> 1:49:30.080 been talking up how much revenue is coming in. It's 1:49:30.280 --> 1:49:33.360 it's like tax revenue. It comes into the treasury. It's 1:49:33.400 --> 1:49:38.320 it's a tax. It's a tax on on other you know, 1:49:38.400 --> 1:49:41.320 other entities. It's no different, goes into the treasury just 1:49:41.360 --> 1:49:46.920 like your income tax does. The question is where did 1:49:46.920 --> 1:49:49.760 that money actually come from did it come from the 1:49:50.000 --> 1:49:53.840 exporter or did they or did they mark it up? 1:49:54.840 --> 1:49:58.240 And you and I pay for it with an increased price, right, 1:49:58.320 --> 1:50:00.840 So it is, but the money all goes to the 1:50:00.840 --> 1:50:03.320 same place. And this has been one of Trump's arguments. 1:50:03.320 --> 1:50:06.880 I mean, in some ways, I think what Trump wants 1:50:06.880 --> 1:50:09.880 to go through is essentially ava tax. They don't call 1:50:09.920 --> 1:50:13.200 it that, but essentially getting rid of the income tax 1:50:13.320 --> 1:50:17.120 and essentially going to a form of a consumption tax. 1:50:17.560 --> 1:50:20.559 Now they're not, you know, which is consumption tax attacks 1:50:20.600 --> 1:50:22.759 on everything. But you know what, when you raise tariffs 1:50:23.240 --> 1:50:25.200 ten percent across the board, what have you just done? 1:50:26.360 --> 1:50:29.760 You've just taxed pretty much everything. But no, it just 1:50:29.800 --> 1:50:34.760 goes straight into the treasury. Next question comes from Dan A. Carlsbad, California. Hey, Chuck, 1:50:34.800 --> 1:50:37.439 I've been listening since the original NBC version and I'm 1:50:37.479 --> 1:50:39.920 really enjoying the new format. Well, thank you. The long 1:50:39.960 --> 1:50:42.559 form interviews and sharp inside on current events are great. 1:50:43.000 --> 1:50:45.840 Keep up the great work. Thank you. I'm blushing. I 1:50:45.840 --> 1:50:47.920 had a question about candidate recruitment. Given how hard it 1:50:47.920 --> 1:50:50.080 is to win in states that heavily favor the opposite party, 1:50:50.080 --> 1:50:52.800 why don't parties try to draft non politician celebrities with 1:50:52.880 --> 1:50:55.479 name recognition and brought appeal to shake up races. Even 1:50:55.520 --> 1:50:57.240 if they don't win, it could force the other party 1:50:57.240 --> 1:51:00.360 to spend resources, Like why haven't Tennessee Democrats approach someone 1:51:00.400 --> 1:51:03.800 like Dolly Parton, Eddie George or Taylor Swift or do 1:51:03.880 --> 1:51:06.760 these conversations happen and it really goes far due to 1:51:06.760 --> 1:51:12.439 a lack of interest from the potential candidate. It's more 1:51:12.479 --> 1:51:15.040 of the latter, right, is that is usually lack of 1:51:15.040 --> 1:51:18.400 interest in said celebrity, especially these days. What celebrity wants 1:51:18.439 --> 1:51:20.960 to do that to themselves. But there is a specific 1:51:21.000 --> 1:51:25.720 type of candidate that parties do try to recruit in 1:51:25.800 --> 1:51:28.160 these one party states where they think if they could 1:51:28.160 --> 1:51:31.600 find the right candidate, and it's not quite a celebrity, 1:51:31.600 --> 1:51:36.719 but it's sort of. It's like public service celebrity, meaning 1:51:37.120 --> 1:51:47.479 a military hero, an astronaut. That's that's usually, or you 1:51:47.479 --> 1:51:52.160 know somebody who's famous with their business if you will, 1:51:55.600 --> 1:52:00.720 So you do get attempts like that. Dave Thomas, some 1:52:00.720 --> 1:52:02.920 people wanted him to run for governor of Ohio. He 1:52:03.000 --> 1:52:06.920 got into it. My old mentor Doug Bailey tells a 1:52:06.920 --> 1:52:10.479 great story about it. Dave Thomas, you know, was basically 1:52:10.560 --> 1:52:13.000 like he founded Wendy's and he was feeling pretty good 1:52:13.000 --> 1:52:14.800 and he was in his ads, and you know, there 1:52:14.880 --> 1:52:16.760 was this idea that he could and at the time, 1:52:16.800 --> 1:52:23.200 Democrats were dominating governor's races in Ohio, and you know, 1:52:23.280 --> 1:52:25.920 part of the problem is desire and Doug. Doug always 1:52:25.960 --> 1:52:28.559 had a very specific question to anybody he worked for, 1:52:28.800 --> 1:52:30.639 and if they couldn't answer the question, he didn't want 1:52:30.640 --> 1:52:32.000 to work for him, no matter how much money they 1:52:32.040 --> 1:52:34.439 had to spend. And Doug's question was, why do you 1:52:34.479 --> 1:52:36.640 want to be whatever office you're running for? So in 1:52:36.640 --> 1:52:38.439 this case, well why do you want to be governor? 1:52:38.479 --> 1:52:42.479 What do you want to do? And the way he 1:52:42.520 --> 1:52:45.120 tells the story is that Dave Thomas sat there and 1:52:45.160 --> 1:52:49.080 said and he had all these big time consultants. He 1:52:49.120 --> 1:52:51.320 brought in all the best, you know, because everybody knew 1:52:51.560 --> 1:52:57.280 rich guy, Dave Thomas, founder of Wendy And he said, 1:52:57.280 --> 1:53:00.200 all right, I have to think about that. And the 1:53:00.200 --> 1:53:01.880 next day he calls him up and says, I'm not running. 1:53:02.000 --> 1:53:03.479 He goes, because I don't know why I wanted to run. 1:53:03.520 --> 1:53:06.400 He basically just wanted to run to run and I 1:53:06.400 --> 1:53:09.320 think that happens sometimes with you know, you and I 1:53:09.400 --> 1:53:12.200 might think, boy, they would make a great candidate, but 1:53:12.280 --> 1:53:14.679 if they don't have any interest in it, they'll actually 1:53:14.760 --> 1:53:18.160 make a terrible candidate. Right, they're a non paper candidate. 1:53:18.200 --> 1:53:20.719 You know, they might pull well, or they're likable or people, 1:53:20.960 --> 1:53:25.040 et cetera. But look when they happens, it happens. You know, 1:53:25.160 --> 1:53:30.040 Arnold Schwarzenegger. I don't think Arnold Swarzenegger ever would run 1:53:30.080 --> 1:53:33.240 for governor if it had been a conventional campaign for governor. 1:53:33.920 --> 1:53:36.240 But he was able to get the celebrity. You know, 1:53:36.400 --> 1:53:38.639 you can talk a celebrity into doing it if there's 1:53:38.680 --> 1:53:43.519 like an easy way to do it. And the recall suddenly, 1:53:43.600 --> 1:53:46.719 the fact that it got on the ballot and Davis 1:53:46.800 --> 1:53:51.000 was going to get recalled, suddenly it was a much 1:53:51.080 --> 1:53:53.920 lighter left. He didn't have to go through a primary. Right, 1:53:53.920 --> 1:53:55.599 and this was before they even had a top two 1:53:55.600 --> 1:54:00.439 in California, but the recall ballot ended up being all party, 1:54:01.280 --> 1:54:03.920 all candidates on the same party. Back then, Arnold was 1:54:03.960 --> 1:54:06.639 a modern Republican, and he might have struggled to win 1:54:06.800 --> 1:54:10.719 a conventional Republican primary, which is was among the reasons 1:54:10.760 --> 1:54:13.840 why he was staying out of electoral politics. And it 1:54:13.880 --> 1:54:17.240 wasn't until the basically a loophole showed up, which in 1:54:17.280 --> 1:54:19.519 this case was the recall that got him in to 1:54:19.560 --> 1:54:26.120 do it. So, look, candidates, party leaders constantly are searching 1:54:26.200 --> 1:54:29.800 for what you're just saying. I mean, I think you 1:54:29.840 --> 1:54:31.960 know that you want to. I was just talking with 1:54:32.000 --> 1:54:35.080 a gentleman who came to this event featuring you know, 1:54:35.560 --> 1:54:37.560 independence and trying to figure out how you can create 1:54:37.640 --> 1:54:41.320 more of a movement so that independents, you know, don't 1:54:41.320 --> 1:54:43.920 get drowned by money from team Red or team blue. 1:54:43.960 --> 1:54:51.640 When when when they actually get competitive? And I met 1:54:51.680 --> 1:54:54.040 this I met this one gentleman and he was and 1:54:54.080 --> 1:54:55.960 he was saying, you know, do I have the right 1:54:56.120 --> 1:54:58.880 profile to run for office? And he goes and he 1:54:58.960 --> 1:55:01.800 was telling me his profile and he started his own 1:55:01.840 --> 1:55:04.360 business and he turned it into a multimillion dollar bet. 1:55:04.360 --> 1:55:06.280 I said, I'm gonna stop you right there. I said, 1:55:06.440 --> 1:55:10.280 the greatest halo effect for a candidate description when you 1:55:10.320 --> 1:55:12.520 go to voters is not celebrity and somebody you know, 1:55:12.600 --> 1:55:19.320 it's self made business person. Immediately voters want to hear more. 1:55:19.760 --> 1:55:23.400 Now they may you know, if especially if they've like 1:55:23.520 --> 1:55:26.440 a brick and mortar business, like building their own business, 1:55:26.560 --> 1:55:30.800 that sort of business. Not Wall Street, not that kind 1:55:30.840 --> 1:55:35.160 of of business person. But really somebody who you know, 1:55:35.360 --> 1:55:39.640 meets a payroll, you know, makes a product or does 1:55:39.680 --> 1:55:46.120 a service that helps everyday people. That's actually some of 1:55:46.160 --> 1:55:49.440 the bed. There are two great halo effects for first 1:55:49.440 --> 1:55:51.720 time candidates. One is what I just described in business, 1:55:51.760 --> 1:55:55.840 and the other's military veteran, especially if military veteran comes 1:55:55.840 --> 1:55:59.240 with Medal of Honor, purple heart, things like that. So 1:55:59.560 --> 1:56:01.760 the celebt everything. It's kind of interesting for you and 1:56:01.760 --> 1:56:06.800 I to talk about. But in some ways, the ideal 1:56:07.000 --> 1:56:10.800 candidate profile for the voter is self made business person 1:56:10.880 --> 1:56:14.000 who wants to give back to the government, or somebody 1:56:14.000 --> 1:56:18.200 who's who you know, who offered up their blood for 1:56:18.280 --> 1:56:22.520 the country by serving in the military, is and is 1:56:22.560 --> 1:56:25.280 willing to continue in public service. Those are probably the 1:56:25.280 --> 1:56:27.200 two best Profilesta all right, I'm going to do one 1:56:27.200 --> 1:56:30.960 more question. This comes from Barbara B. I really enjoyed 1:56:30.960 --> 1:56:33.520 the Lena Khan interview. It was very enlightening. Your comments 1:56:33.520 --> 1:56:36.040 about the faulty AI info you found on a search 1:56:36.080 --> 1:56:37.920 of your name made me wonder what might have happened. 1:56:37.920 --> 1:56:40.520 If the mistaken information said that you had died, how 1:56:40.520 --> 1:56:43.000 do you think that might reverberate across the internet. Can 1:56:43.040 --> 1:56:44.840 you imagine how hard it might be for someone who's 1:56:44.840 --> 1:56:48.200 not a public figure to disprove something like that. To 1:56:48.280 --> 1:56:50.480 keep up the good work, Barbara, this is exactly why 1:56:50.480 --> 1:56:54.320 I brought up this situation, you know, because my son 1:56:54.360 --> 1:56:57.160 asked me the same question. By the way, it turned out, 1:56:57.200 --> 1:56:58.880 he never said this to me when I when I 1:56:58.920 --> 1:57:02.040 went public with this with this situation. He goes, Dad, 1:57:02.040 --> 1:57:05.880 my friends have been telling me about you with asking 1:57:05.880 --> 1:57:08.280 me about you with Parkinson's for months. And he goes, 1:57:08.320 --> 1:57:09.840 and I kept telling him there's nothing too, that it's 1:57:09.880 --> 1:57:11.800 just a bad rumor. And he goes, I didn't bother 1:57:11.840 --> 1:57:14.840 telling you about it at home, And I said, you know, 1:57:15.040 --> 1:57:17.880 I said okay. But then he asked me a very 1:57:17.920 --> 1:57:20.600 similar question. He goes, I see that once you said something, 1:57:20.600 --> 1:57:22.760 they're like, oh, they got to fix it. He says, 1:57:23.600 --> 1:57:26.400 what if you weren't Chuck Todd? And I said, well, I, 1:57:26.600 --> 1:57:29.080 first of all, I don't know how much Chuck, how 1:57:29.120 --> 1:57:32.640 much influence Chuck Todd has anymore. Sorry, I'm channeling my 1:57:32.680 --> 1:57:37.680 old Bob Dole. But that is I think that's a 1:57:37.760 --> 1:57:43.800 very fair concern. And you know, you've you've you've I've 1:57:43.800 --> 1:57:47.440 read stories what you just described where somebody is accidentally 1:57:47.480 --> 1:57:50.800 declared dead because maybe somebody you know, had the wrong 1:57:50.840 --> 1:57:53.360 middle initial on a death certificate and it ended up 1:57:53.400 --> 1:57:56.000 you know, getting ready, you know, you you know this 1:57:56.080 --> 1:57:58.080 is something that has happened before, but you're right on 1:57:58.120 --> 1:58:01.200 the internet it is. And I think this is the 1:58:01.640 --> 1:58:04.760 This gets it to what. I brought this up in 1:58:04.800 --> 1:58:07.400 a previous podcast, but I can't remember which one, so 1:58:07.440 --> 1:58:10.840 I'll repeat myself. I think I've told you about a 1:58:10.880 --> 1:58:13.680 project that Frank McCourt, the former owner of the Dodgers, 1:58:14.080 --> 1:58:17.000 had put together called Project Liberty, and one of his 1:58:17.080 --> 1:58:20.640 motivations he wrote this book about about sort of trying 1:58:20.640 --> 1:58:24.800 to reclaim our data from big tech. And one of 1:58:24.840 --> 1:58:27.800 the points he was making is he describes in the 1:58:27.800 --> 1:58:31.320 book you know, look, Frank McCourt's ownership of the Dodgers 1:58:31.360 --> 1:58:35.960 is most infamous for the high profile divorce which forced 1:58:36.040 --> 1:58:41.400 them to sell. It became a storyline on Curb Your Enthusiasm, right, 1:58:41.760 --> 1:58:45.280 that was a rip from the headlines. And so because 1:58:45.280 --> 1:58:48.760 of the settlement, you know, they didn't neither Frank or 1:58:48.840 --> 1:58:50.880 Jamie McCourt had enough money to buy the other one out, 1:58:50.920 --> 1:58:52.200 so they had to sell the team in order to 1:58:52.240 --> 1:58:57.160 settle their divorce. It has been some fifteen years since 1:58:57.200 --> 1:59:00.520 their divorce, and to this day, if you google Frank McCord, 1:59:00.600 --> 1:59:02.840 it's among the first things that comes up. And this 1:59:03.000 --> 1:59:06.360 was sort of this was something he's like, at what 1:59:06.560 --> 1:59:09.440 point is that? You know, he goes my ex wife 1:59:09.480 --> 1:59:13.920 and I they both remarried. They both have a pretty 1:59:13.920 --> 1:59:16.760 good relationship because they had kids, their adult children now 1:59:16.800 --> 1:59:20.360 they all get along at family gatherings, et cetera. But 1:59:20.480 --> 1:59:23.160 his identity on the internet, if you google them immediately 1:59:23.160 --> 1:59:24.760 sort of goes back to that moment. It's like, when 1:59:25.080 --> 1:59:27.680 when do you get to control your own biography, your 1:59:27.680 --> 1:59:31.400 own persona, who you are? And the fact is we 1:59:31.560 --> 1:59:35.320 have no, we don't have any control of that, right 1:59:35.480 --> 1:59:38.200 they do. And this was his he you know, his 1:59:38.240 --> 1:59:39.960 whole thing, and it's a little pie in the sky, 1:59:40.080 --> 1:59:43.280 but he basically wants to sort of reorient the internet 1:59:43.360 --> 1:59:45.760 right now. If you think about it, when you agree 1:59:45.800 --> 1:59:48.400 to terms and services, you agree to terms and services 1:59:48.840 --> 1:59:55.040 on Google or Apple or Amazon's terms, they don't agree 1:59:55.040 --> 1:59:59.600 to terms and services on the user's terms, we don't 1:59:59.600 --> 2:00:02.320 get to tell them you know, yes, you're you know. 2:00:02.440 --> 2:00:05.680 Thanks to the EU privacy laws, there's you can control 2:00:05.760 --> 2:00:08.840 some cookies now, right. Not every website allows it, but 2:00:08.920 --> 2:00:11.680 in some website you can control some cookies, especially those 2:00:12.040 --> 2:00:15.720 that cater to your European users. But that is a 2:00:15.920 --> 2:00:19.520 I think, a fundamental issue where we don't control our 2:00:19.520 --> 2:00:22.839 own persona. But you know, one of the more interesting 2:00:22.920 --> 2:00:27.680 generational divides on the issue of privacy. For whatever reason, 2:00:27.720 --> 2:00:31.880 millennials and Gen Z don't view privacy with the same 2:00:33.200 --> 2:00:36.760 sort of concern that older that Gen X or baby 2:00:36.760 --> 2:00:39.200 boomers do. And I think part of it is that 2:00:39.240 --> 2:00:42.080 they've they've been sort of Internet native, right, and there 2:00:42.680 --> 2:00:45.080 their whole lives. They in some ways they voluntarily have 2:00:45.160 --> 2:00:47.880 put their personas on the Internet, right, and and they've 2:00:47.880 --> 2:00:51.640 sort of just they've they've been on the whole time, 2:00:51.720 --> 2:00:57.080 their whole lives. And I think until I guess I 2:00:57.080 --> 2:00:59.800 would make a plea with my millennial friends here, will 2:00:59.800 --> 2:01:06.480 you please get angry about privacy and data? I understand 2:01:06.520 --> 2:01:09.120 why you assume it's too late, Genie's already out of 2:01:09.120 --> 2:01:12.960 the bottle, But there are things like this, like, you know, 2:01:13.240 --> 2:01:15.600 how do we know if we can? Hey, you say 2:01:15.640 --> 2:01:18.360 I'm dead, I'm alive. What do I have to do 2:01:18.440 --> 2:01:22.400 to tell you this? Right? Things like that getting I 2:01:22.760 --> 2:01:28.000 think this is an issue that if when you when 2:01:28.000 --> 2:01:29.680 you start to talk to people about you're like, hey, 2:01:29.680 --> 2:01:33.120 you're right, I should have more control of this. But 2:01:33.800 --> 2:01:36.600 we have sort of almost surrendered this idea that we 2:01:36.640 --> 2:01:41.800 can somehow wrestle our You know, who owns the data? Right? 2:01:42.280 --> 2:01:46.800 Do we own our own data? Or does the does 2:01:47.720 --> 2:01:52.600 the tech company who gathered all of our data individually 2:01:52.600 --> 2:01:54.760 and put it into one larger file and made a 2:01:54.880 --> 2:02:00.200 unique product. Do they own that unique product? One of 2:02:00.240 --> 2:02:06.760 us are shareholders of our own data within that unique product? 2:02:07.720 --> 2:02:10.600 I don't know. This is why I always joke why 2:02:10.600 --> 2:02:13.280 God invented trial lawyers? Some trial lawyers going to figure 2:02:13.280 --> 2:02:17.200 out a class action suit on this, uh, and then 2:02:17.280 --> 2:02:20.880 some and and at some point I'd like to think 2:02:20.920 --> 2:02:25.880 that that there'll be some a political sort of a 2:02:26.080 --> 2:02:29.440 rise from the electorate, if you will, about this issue. 2:02:29.440 --> 2:02:33.320 But look, this is this what you just asked about. 2:02:35.280 --> 2:02:36.880 You know, what do you do if you're not you know, 2:02:36.920 --> 2:02:38.920 if you if you don't have a platform like the 2:02:38.960 --> 2:02:41.640 one I have in order to say, hey, Google, you 2:02:41.720 --> 2:02:45.760 messed up. If you don't have that kind of platform, 2:02:46.080 --> 2:02:48.200 how do you how do you wrestle control of your 2:02:48.200 --> 2:02:50.360 own persona. I think this is I think this should 2:02:50.400 --> 2:02:54.720 be a bigger concern, and I think government should be 2:02:55.360 --> 2:02:57.040 a bit more on the side of the consumer on 2:02:57.040 --> 2:03:02.320 this one. All right, I am I gonna did five questions, 2:03:02.520 --> 2:03:04.720 all right. I will try to get better because we're 2:03:04.720 --> 2:03:06.800 getting more questions from you guys. I appreciate it. You 2:03:06.800 --> 2:03:09.200 can send it to ask Chuck at chucktodcast dot com. 2:03:09.240 --> 2:03:13.000 You can leave a question the Instagram feed, TikTok feed, 2:03:13.200 --> 2:03:18.600 YouTube feed, send me a DM on X. I'm not 2:03:18.640 --> 2:03:21.720 going to really look at replies on X. That's toxic 2:03:21.800 --> 2:03:25.520 bot stuff, but dms I will. I keep my dms open, 2:03:25.560 --> 2:03:29.200 so you're welcome to come in on that front. However 2:03:29.240 --> 2:03:31.640 you want to get a question to us, we do 2:03:31.760 --> 2:03:34.000 our best to scoop it up and put it in 2:03:34.080 --> 2:03:37.560 the queue to get to it at some point. All right. 2:03:37.560 --> 2:03:42.480 With that, I hope you enjoy your weekend. Barring massive 2:03:42.520 --> 2:03:47.160 breaking news or Congress returning to deal with Epstein, I 2:03:47.240 --> 2:03:51.360 will upload again, probably in the next ninety six hours, 2:03:51.400 --> 2:03:53.120 and with that until I upload again.