WEBVTT - Hammer & Flows 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:11.560 Uh, we're waiting on reparations. Uh uh dis the history book. 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.480 So let me tell you the tailor featt Labina Communist 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.160 part of the deprection era, TIY getting scared off for 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:19.880 the sheriffs and share cropping for bear from the black folks. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.520 Parado with the fair forms. You came and said, I folks, 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:24.560 they try to turn your lights off or to not you. 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:26.440 Right the book we run up on the move rightful 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.200 to live, susicidal, but the black folks was kind of weird. 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:31.280 They couldn't really read. But they consist of him too. 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.800 Then and then this alliance and red and black and 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:35.840 the white would later lay the frame before the fights 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.040 of Rosa Parks and Aye Davis. So when they say 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:40.880 that it's boxing gets the grave and punch of racist historically, 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.160 the kind of holds up. Actually, you're listening to waiting 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:52.120 on reparation, the production of Iheartard, good morning or afternoon 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:55.400 or pending on when you're listening to this. If you're 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.120 listening to this when it just came out, then happy St. 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:04.560 Patrick's Day, yeah, or if or if it's after that, Um, 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:10.800 take some baby profen, you'll drink some waters. Um calling 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:14.720 calling to work calling sick. I don't need you, It wouldn't. 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.119 I mean maybe if you're like a school crossing guard 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:23.360 for like an elementary school, maybe don't call out the 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:28.039 children needs you. But I mean otherwise who cares. Very fine. 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:33.200 I think everybody's definitely gonna take notice of the subdued 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.160 intro this morning, I know why the hell I'm tired? 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:42.440 What why are you? So? I am in Waco, Texas 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:47.520 this morning? Your drove to Waco. So yeah, see what 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:51.200 happened was see what had happened was, um, I'm gonna 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.560 go to the south by Southwest UM. And we had 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.560 a show in Birmingham and Saturday in Birmingham a couple 0:01:57.560 --> 0:01:59.360 of days. Decided to talk to you all about some 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:03.480 of that, um you know which has inspired this week's episode. 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:06.760 So Young a Bremenham for a couple of days, which 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:11.320 worked my interest in doing this show. But um, you know, 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:15.960 our hope to drive about halfway and stop was shattered 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.639 when we got to the hotel that we had booked 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:24.040 um online and it was not only mad sketchy, it 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:25.919 was so sketchy that we rolled up to check in 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:28.320 and they were like, oh yeah, we don't accept the 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.720 electronic payment. I was like, what do you mean I 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.000 paid online for Then they were like, nah, it doesn't count, 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.040 it doesn't count. So I'm pretty sure these I'm pretty 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.959 sure these cats just took my money and just you 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.240 wouldn't give us a room. And so, man, there's just 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.880 so much to unpack about everywhere we've been so far. 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.680 But ultimately we like tried to find hotels like, you know, 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:56.120 an hour out, two hours out, and finally we're just like, yo, look, Paul, 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:00.720 grandma lives in Wago. We make it a way goo good. 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:04.880 Oh no, no, no, it's just me as holm with 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:09.640 you know, Grandma, etcetera. But um, so we ended up driving, 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:11.720 you know, we might to drive like six hours. I 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:15.560 ended up being Mark Elevan, So my voice may sound 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.040 a bit scrutchy, and I may seeund a bit tired 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.800 because that happened. But I mean, along the way, a 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:26.679 lot of really dopeness has transpired. So part of why 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.320 getting here took us along because we stopped for three 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:33.520 hours in jack Mississippi and had lunch with Jerry Mitchell. 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:38.000 Are you feeling with Jerry Mitchell's Jerry Mitchell is the 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:44.040 investigative reporter that solved the unsolved murders of Mega Everts 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:50.880 and of the case of the Birmingham church bombings and 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.800 a number of other like civil rights cold cases. Yeah, 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.000 and so like this was the dude that put a 0:03:56.000 --> 0:04:01.600 bunch of klansmen in jail for like murdering civil rights heroes. 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:05.400 So yeah, there was a there was a movie about 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:10.160 the trial for like the killer of Betyar Everest called 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:15.240 The Ghost of Mississippi with Alec Baldwin and Woopy Goldberg 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:20.400 and James Would I believe, But I wonder, I can't remember. 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:22.719 I wonder who played that reporter that because I'm sure 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:24.560 he would have to have been a character that I 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.160 gotta look it up. And also he was super cool 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.039 and nice. I would love to have him on the 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:33.000 show to talk about his work. Um as well. In Birmingham, 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.760 we had the opportunity to hang out with Isaiah Thomas, 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:40.800 that one of the lee organizers of the Amazon unionization 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:45.920 effort twenty years old Ball of Lightning, Like I thought 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:52.080 you meant the Isaiah Thomas, I'm sorry, no, no, no, no, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:56.120 no no. Was cool. So lots of interesting Birmingham history uncovered, 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:58.880 and of course in this trip that I would love 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.520 us to you know, touch on in like a multiply 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:06.880 MultiPark series on the city, because yeah, I think that's 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.599 an awesome idea of I mean, just from the stuff 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:14.400 that we got for today, it's it's definitely a rich 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.839 history that you can really dig into. Birmingham is a 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:22.360 wild place, has been, perhaps always will be. I've only 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:24.880 been I've only been to Birmingham once. I think it 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.560 was to do like a it's like secret Stages or something. 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.160 Oh yeah, wait so we um we played the Syndicate 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.680 Lounge for this hip hop series called The Bottom Mix. 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:41.799 Actually hung out with Brish. Yeah. So um, rich history, 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.920 rich music scene, that lots to cover. So today we're 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:49.679 going to dig on into some lesser known history um 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.480 of Birmingham. We'll see what we'll see what we get 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.800 there a month to return to the topic because there's 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.960 so much to say. But you're about to get out 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.080 on the road yourself. It was my understanding. Yeah, just 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.120 doing like a short little run. I'm doing some St. 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.359 Patty's show tomorrow and then I'm doing something else in 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.920 North Carolina the day after that. So it's just gonna 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:15.720 be you know, a traveling weekend and I'm also um 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:17.839 coming out with a new there's a new EP that 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.120 I was dropping with an Atlanta producer named Josiah Soren. 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.840 But it's like a low fi, jazzy sort of thing. 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.520 It's just like, you know, three songs. But we've we've 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.880 been cutting the video and it's like running down to 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.680 the wire. So it's like in between the podcast and 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:34.800 the video then having to go out of town this 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.680 and then our city in Savannah. Savannah has last time 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:42.960 I checked, I think like the third or fourth biggest St. 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:49.640 Patrick's Day like celebration, I guess in the country here. Yeah, 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.159 it's weird, right, but like we're about to have an 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:56.960 influx of like two hundred thousand people. Yeah, so it's 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:00.440 it's about to be crazy here. Where to park, It's 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.360 it's it's everything's whack, and you know, it's just been 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:05.640 a hectic week. So we don't want to we don't 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:10.200 want a front. Our aesthetic is is you know, we 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.840 can real low five boom bad. This is going to 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.880 be very much in the spirit of those you know, 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:20.200 MF Doom transitions between anime cartoons at one AM, where 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:25.960 it's kind of like hazy, laid back. Yeah, as we 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:28.000 get into some less of known history of the city 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:31.280 of Birmingham. Event all right, we'll be with that after 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:45.880 the jump. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we are back. So 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:51.040 you have this adventure in Birmingham. Where do you want 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:54.040 to start as far as like the history or something 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.440 about it that not too many people know about. So, 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:59.440 I mean I would characterize this as like quote unquote 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.280 all the way act. But and thinking about that, I 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.360 imagine there's even while their history even farther back than 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.200 you know here, the Great Depression era, um, if we 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:13.920 get into slave re abolition, indigenous folks, etcetera. But I 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.440 did want to start out talking about this era because 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.920 it is well documented in Robin D. G. Kelly's book 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.720 Hammer and Hoe, from which we take the title of 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:27.080 this episode. Um. So while we're talking about the Depression era, 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:28.880 I wanted to also capture this as a part of 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.120 a larger tendency in the media to sort of just 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:36.040 like forget about the South, like we like, despite the 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.760 fact we have this very rich history of liberation struggle, 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.240 um against the oppressive forces that are perhaps you know, 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:46.880 more visible, particularly brutal. You still see like coastal liberals 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.920 like making fun of the South every time Republicans like 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.880 are awful. I think ab how like in Georgia, like UM, 0:08:55.000 --> 0:09:00.440 voter suppression bills raised calls to boycott the states outside 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:02.120 of the the state, even though like nobody in the state 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:06.600 wanted that. Um. I think about people joking that like 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.280 in Texas, Kentucky, like all these survivors of like weather 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:15.680 disasters deserve their state's horrible relief responses because quote unquote 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.040 like they voted for their leaders despite the fact that 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:22.880 like majorities of people don't vote at all. So let's 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.400 you know, not even talk about that. I guess here 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:27.520 then again, you know, I'm back in our own state 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.520 once and once more thinking about how many progressives, um 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.960 and leftists we had elected to various levels of government. Um. 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:39.040 When you hear about like successful left electoral projects, you 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.480 think about New York, or you hear about it in Nevada. 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.000 But they ain't gotta love, they ain't gonna love people 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.559 in the in the South fighting for their freedom. So 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.720 I think Germingham is a great example of history that 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.360 goes untold. Okay, So just because you you brought that 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.400 up in terms of like, you know, the like you said, 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.720 the liberal like thing of like, oh, let's boycott the 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:05.680 state or business businesses should pull out of the state 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:09.240 because of something they're doing. What's what is like another 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:16.800 UM effective I guess like political like repercussion or punishment 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:20.360 that you can do when some of these gerrymander Georgia 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:24.319 legislatures like do wild shit that's not really in tune 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.640 with the rest of the countrys something you can do 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:31.440 to affect the officials or to affect the government that 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:33.960 instilled that. Since you said, like a lot of the 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:36.760 population doesn't vote and there's people there who have that 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.000 will be affected by like boycotts and stuff, yeah, I 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.480 mean send resources to organizations that are organizing in the 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.439 state that are doing voter registration and voter education and 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:51.719 a voter turnout efforts, etcetera. Because like, yeah, boycott's hurt 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.400 working people. I mean, if the working people call for 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.360 it and they're like down for that, then desk what's up? 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.400 In this case, A lot of folks that UM are 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:04.160 part of who have been drawn Georgia by like the 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.320 expanding film industry, are folks that vote Democrat, and those 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:09.280 are folks that are going to be harmed by a 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:11.440 boycott and I'd be like, well, you guys, I got 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.440 to move back to California because, like you know, the 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:16.360 movie sets shut down because no one wanted to do 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:20.720 business here anymore, actually further cementing Republican power in this state. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.960 But like, yo, if you you know, take that, if 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:25.840 you know, if you want to do a little boycott, fine, 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:28.680 um you know, like, oh, I'm not gonna buy Coca 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.600 Cola because they gave fifty grand to like the author 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:35.079 of the Senate bill making it illegal to hand out 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.240 water in voting lines or whatever. You know, all right, 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.559 take the twenty bucks and give it to like um 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:46.000 UM Asian American's Advancing Justice or UM put their Latino 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:47.760 X which they you know, get out the vote for, 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.160 you know, in Hispanic community or something. Because then actually 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.360 you're you're fighting the problem by helping people, the people 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.480 fighting the problem fight the problem. You know what I'm saying, 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.679 I feel I feel conflicted about it, because I mean, 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.280 on one hand, I definitely hear what you're saying, and 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:04.800 I mean I agree with it, But then there's just 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.880 like another part of it where it's like, what can 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.880 you do to these big entities other than hurt their pockets? 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:13.760 I mean at the end of the day, and it's 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.320 unfortunately the ship has trickled down because of the way 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.480 everything is tied up together. But like when we were 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.000 talking about the NFL a couple of weeks ago, you know, 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.120 that's the only about the easiest way to get that 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.319 to happen would be to boycott the NFL for them 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.080 to lose money because of it, And that would not 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.760 only affect the billionaires, but it would probably affect a 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.960 lot of low level people worse than it would affect 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.360 the billionaires. But that would be something tangible of like 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:43.840 over losing viewership or losing money. People are buying jerseys anymore. Okay, 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.079 they're upset because of what. All, right, let's change that. 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.280 But when you're doing that against actively against the wishes 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.320 of the people who are doing the work in the state, 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.000 like what, why why would you do that? Like literally, 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.439 I was getting arguments with people not in Georgia about 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.520 the boycott in Georgia and trying to be like no, 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.240 like I lived here, Like I know what I'm talking about, 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.199 Like no one is asked for this. I appreciate your intent, 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.800 and people even being condescending in that regard as well. 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:14.240 Like well, you know, shut out whatever, like just being 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.160 so insistent that they want to do things the way 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:20.120 they want to do things, even if though they have 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.440 no inside knowledge of what is happening and are just 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.040 so and so self consistent and just like blaantly disrespecting 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.400 like what people are actually asking for that are in 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:33.240 these impacted communities, um and have been doing this organizing 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:34.640 for a long time. So that's the thing. I mean, 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.680 you're absolutely right that hitting them in their pockets is effective. 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:42.000 But like if that's like if you're just going over 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:45.320 like over and around what people are actually asking you 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.960 to do, like it's not actually about the issue for you, 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.560 it's about being on some kind of moral high horse 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.640 and like an eco trend. Okay, you know, I don't 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.679 want to get this is again, this is why you, 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.520 like you said, this episode is an union of discussions. 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:01.200 I don't want to get two bogged out in any 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.800 one topic. But oh yeah, let's keep it rolling. Definitely, 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.280 I definitely thought of an addition to that. But okay, 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.040 we can we can come back to this if we 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:12.240 have to save this snippet for something else. But anyway, so, 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.920 um so, yeah, people, people forget about the South, they're like, oh, 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.920 you know, they've been bes Bridge and like the Freedom Writers. 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:23.840 But like, um, especially with like the CRT bands trying 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.520 to happen, you're certainly not going to hear about some 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:28.600 of this kind of stuff. I mean, you can't even 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:33.320 hear about like traditional civil rights history, let alone like, um, 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:34.800 some of the stuff I'm goot to tell you about 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:42.200 today obscure esoteric, like yeah, yeah, okay. So, um So, 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.840 this book that I referenced Robin D. G. Kelly is 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.080 Hammer and How is a history of the Alabama Communist 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.520 movement during the Great Depression. And let me just sell 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:55.720 you it is a completely and totally wild read. Um, Like, 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.360 I just it's really it's going to be very hard 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.560 for me to capture because my mind was just excuse 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:04.440 me what? Um So? In it, Kelly describes the way 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:09.040 that black workers um brought existing traditions of resistance to 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:14.800 racial depression into development of a unique version of Marxism, 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.479 and how the Communist Party came to attract a substantial 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.360 number of um, African American workers in Alabama, so like 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.080 fight for like, you know, struggles that we typically think 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.520 of in a Great Depression. Eary of you know, getting 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:31.360 welfare and you know, just the means to survive when 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.160 that somebody could put out of work obviously, the right 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.760 to vote, just fighting racial terrorism by the clan and 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.800 the police, etcetera. Um, And so we think of it, 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.000 it's just like oh that type of silver right struggle. 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.760 But like in Birmingham during the Great Depression, like the 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:49.480 folks that were like about that life are real for real. 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:55.200 We're like straight up like communists apparently like straight like 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.640 not like the we're just going to call you communists 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.200 because no exactly. And speaking of that, I want to 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:04.480 go ahead and give this caveat, I mean regouts caveat 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.480 as much as it's just like something I've been thinking 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.440 about lately because I've been waiting for the day that 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.440 someone tries to ask me if I'm a communist because 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.000 that's like the scary like and I've been thinking about 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.960 it because I'm not. But I'm like, Okay, the answer 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.960 I think it's legitimately is that I'm not because I 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:25.640 don't even think I know what communism really is, and 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.080 neither does anyone. Most most anyone that would ask either 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:34.600 of us that question, like doesn't know what it is either. Um, essentially, 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.400 I'm sorry, I said no, no, no no, I mean, I'm 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:38.520 just I was going to add to that as is 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.800 I feel the same way. It's like, I'm not but 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.800 I don't go ahead. I'll finish with my thought after you, okay. 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:47.920 I will say that I am vaguely familiar with it 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:53.359 as an idea I guess as like moneyless, classless, stateless society. 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:55.920 But I literally don't even know what that means either, 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:58.360 Like it's just really hard to imagine. So I would 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.360 essentially say that I I'm kind of too down to 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.520 be a communist. There's a lot of big books you 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:07.000 got to read and stuff. I hear. It seems I 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.000 don't know, it's some kind of that's from like a 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:15.160 theory sort of more scholarly standpoint, I guess, because there's 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:18.560 got to be like a more what's the word, There 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:25.280 has to be a more like proletariat understanding because into 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.160 it's not like, hey, I have to read some fucking 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:33.320 gigantic book of theory by seven different Russian dudes. That's 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.679 a good point because these cats down here in the 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.840 Great Depression era, like they couldn't read a lot of 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:40.960 them exactly. So now I'm like wait a second, how 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.320 do they How did they get so into this stuff? 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:47.000 Like I don't know. I got to read the book 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.919 for some reason. It's weird because like you're a politician, 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.400 but like I get in conversations all the time where 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.840 people ask me like, are you a socialist or are 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:57.640 you a communist? And I kind of give the same 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.159 answer that you did, where it's like I don't know 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.800 enough about the ship to claim that I'm in anybody's group, 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:10.800 but I know that the the people that I don't like, 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:14.800 I look at communism and socialism in terms of like 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.840 labels the same way that I do as woke. I 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.399 don't personally identify as that ship, but like all the 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:22.600 people that I hate seem to not like it, so 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:27.560 I And that actually that makes you think about how 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.760 people like identify as like a proud capitalist or whatever 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.320 when they work at like radio shack or whatever. It's like, 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:38.439 you don't know, we don't know what capitalism is, do you? 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.600 They got no capital, You ain't gotten zero means of production, 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.479 my friend. Um, so at least I know that, Like, 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.760 I'm not that, not even because I don't want to be. 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.480 I just don't have like properties. I'm renting out or 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.400 like a factory that people work in, Like I'm literally 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.560 not a capitalist in the definition of the term. But 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.040 a lot of people don't know what any of these 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:05.439 terms means, and I guess neither did um like the 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:11.320 black laborers and sharecroppers down in Birmingham until like, you know, 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:17.160 I guess, I guess, like the International like Communist Party, like, yo, 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.160 it's real rough for black folks down there. We need 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.399 to send folks down there to help them out because 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.399 it's real bleak and we're trying to get everybody free. 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.360 And so a couple of white communists showed up in Birmingham, 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.919 and it was a part of like I guess, in 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:37.080 the imagination of like folks that had experienced like the 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:41.959 Civil War, you know, experienced reconstruction, etcetera. There was this 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:46.879 lingering sense that like the Yankees were coming back, like Okay, 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.560 the reconstruction failed, but the Yankees are coming back to 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.119 like save us and like holding out to that hope. 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:55.600 So when these like white communists showed up, they're like, oh, yeah, 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:59.679 the Yankees are here, so like like help us fighter 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:02.640 for And they didn't give it. They didn't care at all, 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.920 like what their political ideology was they were just like Yo, 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.280 these people seem ready to throw down. Let's go and 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:14.600 kind of like launch this crazy like this huge movement. 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.000 I think I read up there was like twelve thousand 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:23.080 people involved in like these like this coalition of organizations 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:27.680 that came about. The Communist Party organized organizing at the time. Um. 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:31.159 But yeah, who were all the organizations? Um? So there 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:37.080 was like the Sharecroppers Union, Um. The Companist Party itself 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.439 had about five people. Chere, copperst Union had up to 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.359 twelve thousand. Um. I think the number of trade unions 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:47.040 that got involved in this work of various sizes. Um. 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:49.840 But yeah, altogether they were they was like there was 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.480 rolling deep. It was rolling deep. Another thing I wanted 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:55.680 to say on this is like I think that this 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.920 that fact of like the people they were like rolled 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:02.080 with the folks who showed to help them, no questions asked, 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.520 is like very is very true of politics. Still, um, 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:10.520 there's a lot of like consternation among like white progressives 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:17.040 and athens about why, um, older black folks are so conservative. Sometimes, UM, 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.080 I say, sometimes I don't want to pay black voters 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.360 into like any kind of box because we're very ideologically diverse. 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.960 But we've had this discussion. Yeah, like black is not 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.679 the political state, Like, yeah, it's on the political party, 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:32.280 and thank god it's not. It would be worse than 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:35.600 the Democrats because it's like the big tent includes everyone 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.160 from your mansion too, you know, very standards or whatever. Right, 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:42.800 but then you can't get anything done. But um, it's 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:45.960 like the well, y'all the well. One of the reasons 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.720 of many why like black folks of a like of 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:52.959 a politically powerful classes. It's like they're consider they're very 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.840 consistent voting block, they turn out their re election, they 0:21:55.840 --> 0:22:01.120 sit on committees, and you know, have all these political connections. 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:03.199 It's because like the folks that have always shown up 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.159 around here are the Republicans, and not even out of 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:11.359 a sense of like building deep community relationships or even 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:13.879 caring about people's problems. They've just always been around and 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:16.639 they've always had the power. And if you want power, 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:18.840 those are the people you have to work with. Until 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.560 a lot of these folks have been working with Republicans 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:24.040 for like twenty years because they're the only that's the 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.760 only shot you have getting anything for the community because 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:29.879 they have all the power. And so those are the 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:32.080 folks they wrote with. Theyre like, O, well, you know, 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:37.800 good old you know buddy, and mcclan stir um has 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:40.480 all he's been in office for twenty years. I know 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:42.760 that guy. He's always been around and so like that's 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:45.399 my homies for no other reason than they're just the 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:50.320 people around. I mean, obviously you're right. I just I 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.119 just always think we've got to like caution though, you know, 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:57.639 I never like, I always try not to look at 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:00.640 things in like a class reductionists sort of way, because 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:02.480 at the end of the day, it's like, even if 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:07.240 somebody you know politically is someone you can work with, 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.679 I mean, they still require some vetting because they're like 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:13.320 if they don't think like black and brown people are human, 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:17.880 then then the whatever policies that they're talking about don't 0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:21.359 include us. That is the thing that ends up blowing 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:25.359