Speaker 1: Adler had a big fifth birthday yesterday birthday party, not
Speaker 1: a birthday birthday party, and it was Sonic themed. I
Speaker 1: told you that. Then one night, randomly he told a
Speaker 1: stranger that he was having a big Batman themed birthday
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, you're wrong, it's Sonic and
Speaker 1: he's like, I never said I wanted Sonic. I was like, yes,
Speaker 1: you did. Anyway, you start recording him exactly. That's what
Speaker 1: we're getting him. A sign of contract, just one of
Speaker 1: the two. Look you signed on the dotted line. And
Speaker 1: so anyway, he had a Sonic themed birthday and he
Speaker 1: absolutely loved it. And one of the things we did
Speaker 1: was we hired characters to come and we were going
Speaker 1: to just pick Sonic and Tails because those are well.
Speaker 1: We really wanted Knuckles, but they don't have the Knuckles character,
Speaker 1: or the Knuckles character was just unavailable that day. It
Speaker 1: was one of the two. I don't think they had
Speaker 1: a Knuckles character. So we were like, okay, we're just
Speaker 1: going to get Sonic entails. That'll be good. And as
Speaker 1: we're on the phone with the guy booking it, he goes,
Speaker 1: might I suggest that you also get Doctor Robotnik and
Speaker 1: Jensen goes. He's saying we should also get Doctor Robotnik,
Speaker 1: and I was like, why do we want the bad
Speaker 1: guy there? I don't want the bad like they like
Speaker 1: Sonic and Tails. I don't need Doctor Robonnick. And the
Speaker 1: guy says, well, the problem is that Sonic and Tails
Speaker 1: can't talk. They have the giant heads on and they
Speaker 1: can't talk, so there's nothing they can really do other
Speaker 1: than just kind of stand there. Doctor Robotnik can do
Speaker 1: games and relay races and think. And I was like, oh, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's definitely add Doctor Robotnick. And boy, am I glad
Speaker 1: we did.
Speaker 2: It would have been a lot of silence and awkward waving.
Speaker 1: I was dying. Doctor Robotnik was so hype and like
Speaker 1: people were saying they parked, they had to park down
Speaker 1: the street and they could hear him down the block. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we did, and I.
Speaker 3: Parked way far away and we're like, oh, I think
Speaker 3: they're about to sing the song because there's some guy
Speaker 3: screaming like it's Adler's birthday song, and I was like,
Speaker 3: what the hell is happening right now?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a little crazy.
Speaker 2: When we pulled up and I saw the Sonic standing
Speaker 2: you know. I was like, Indy, Indy, I think I
Speaker 2: think that's ugly Sonic.
Speaker 1: And he got really excited.
Speaker 2: He's like, really, is it really ugly Sonic. I'm like, no, no,
Speaker 2: I don't think that's the thing. And please don't say
Speaker 2: that to the guy walking up. Oh you're ugly Sonic.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I know he thinks ugly. You know what's weird?
Speaker 2: Like Indy's never played a single Sonic game.
Speaker 5: He doesn't. It's like that.
Speaker 2: The contest. I never played it, so I don't really like.
Speaker 2: But it's just so like he knows everything. He knows
Speaker 2: all the characters, and he's seen the movies and he
Speaker 2: does like the movies. But it's it's just so crazy
Speaker 2: to me that it has no relationship to.
Speaker 1: A video video games.
Speaker 2: It's just it's just content and characters and like all
Speaker 2: of this stuff, it sort of floats around in the
Speaker 2: absorb it and they you know, Pokemon. He never played
Speaker 2: the Pokemon card game, but he went through a Pokemon phase.
Speaker 1: And I'm just the opposite.
Speaker 3: I've never seen a Sonic movie, I've never seen a
Speaker 3: Sonic cartoon. But I played the original Sonic game.
Speaker 4: It was great. It was like it was Sega's version
Speaker 4: of Mario.
Speaker 3: That's like what came with the console, and it was
Speaker 3: it was think you'd hear all the coins?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it was super cool.
Speaker 1: Oh I love the Sonic game. And and Adler also
Speaker 1: has never played Pokemon with the cards, but he knows everybody.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, that's Peakachu, and that's so and so.
Speaker 1: And he likes the rap battles on Spotify they do
Speaker 1: Pokemon rap battles, So two different Pokemon characters rap battle
Speaker 1: and he loves those.
Speaker 2: God, here's such gensens.
Speaker 4: We know he's Jenson's kid.
Speaker 2: He's already like, wait, wait, can two cares insult each
Speaker 2: other and wrap for?
Speaker 4: I enjoy that?
Speaker 1: I really Yeah, that's good. We've been making fun of
Speaker 1: him in rhymes since he was Yeah it sounds. It
Speaker 1: was really fun. And doctor Robotnik really got the party started,
Speaker 1: as had the time of his life. Indy was in
Speaker 1: the bounce house being absolutely pummeled by five year olds
Speaker 1: and their little siblings.
Speaker 3: The bounce house was so we look over at one point,
Speaker 3: so all of a sudden, looks like a triage station
Speaker 3: in the Korean War.
Speaker 2: Every five minutes, so the kid is coming out crying
Speaker 2: being cares one kid.
Speaker 3: I'm talking to one kid about magic the gathering, who's
Speaker 3: six or seven years old, who's got tissue on his
Speaker 3: face because he was kicked in the mouth, so he's
Speaker 3: bleeding from the mouth as he's talking about magic. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: two other kids roll out of the bounce house crying
Speaker 3: as if they were just like it just taken down too.
Speaker 3: There's two other kids literally holding their legs like shaking
Speaker 3: on the ground, and I just see Jensen walk over.
Speaker 4: He crabs and plug he goes. I'm calling it. I'm
Speaker 4: calling it.
Speaker 2: All the things like that.
Speaker 4: I actually became a cage match.
Speaker 5: It was intense.
Speaker 3: It was incredible to watch this whole I just it
Speaker 3: was like one of those old war movies. Everything was
Speaker 3: all of a sudden in slow motion, and the kids
Speaker 3: were like crying on the ground as the music played.
Speaker 1: And the better part was that kids would come out crying.
Speaker 1: I just got body slim and then they'd cry for
Speaker 1: a second, get a hug from their mom, and then
Speaker 1: go right.
Speaker 4: Back in, right back in.
Speaker 2: I just want to see they just wanted to be noticed, acknowledged.
Speaker 2: This is crazy, what's happening.
Speaker 1: I'm going in, I'm going down there.
Speaker 3: Well, the greatest thing is just all these little crying
Speaker 3: kids leaving the party, like as they're bawling being handed
Speaker 3: their little gift bag.
Speaker 2: So here, by the way, rape cotton candy in the
Speaker 2: gift bag?
Speaker 1: Is it so good?
Speaker 2: Rape cotton candy?
Speaker 4: Who thinks somebody sud get off the juice boxes?
Speaker 2: Juice boxes? And he was like, Dad, cotton candy is weird.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, cotton candy is weird. He's like, it's
Speaker 2: just like sugar that dissolves in your mouth. I'm like yeah,
Speaker 2: he's like, but grape is good. It's like, there's no
Speaker 2: such thing as great. He's like, try this. And now
Speaker 2: I'm candy. So we got a shipment coming. I've I've
Speaker 2: ordered a.
Speaker 4: Brand new way to inguest fine sugar.
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, you guys have the cake though.
Speaker 4: Yes, I don't do cake.
Speaker 1: Person either, but I loved this cake.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we are like we're a bad boy meets world
Speaker 2: along that that were not cake people.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm gonna need the name of your
Speaker 3: pizza place though, because that pizza pizza place was good.
Speaker 1: Oh that's the best best pizza in La It's prime pizza.
Speaker 1: It's literally the best pizza. Where do you get it
Speaker 1: in Burbank? So did you have people drive to go
Speaker 1: get her? They deliver it from Bourbank. They delivered it
Speaker 1: for a large delivery fee and a don't think they
Speaker 1: normally deliver. We did it through the catering department and
Speaker 1: they were like, well, we'll do it. It's going to
Speaker 1: cost you, but man, it's it's.
Speaker 2: Under the name to Penga.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll do it.
Speaker 1: We'll do it, We'll do it.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: It was a really fun party. We had, you know,
Speaker 1: like you mentioned great pizza. We had a cake from
Speaker 1: Varta which was a tres leches cake with strawberries.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 1: I'm not a cake person either, but boy did I
Speaker 1: enjoy that cake. And yeah, it was a turned out
Speaker 1: to be a wrestling match, which you know, guy, you
Speaker 1: guys knew that was in our wheelhouse. So it's just
Speaker 1: pretty perfect. And now writers a great cotton candy guy
Speaker 1: and Will is obsessed with honest juice boxes.
Speaker 4: They were, I'll be honest, they were great.
Speaker 2: Yeah you never had an honest juice box, no, I
Speaker 2: guess there axes all the time.
Speaker 4: So this was a great one.
Speaker 3: And two of the lechas were really good the third one.
Speaker 1: Okay, welcome to Pod Meets World.
Speaker 4: I'm Danielle Fischel, I'm right or Strong, and I'm Wilfred Hell.
Speaker 1: As Season four of Boy Meets World comes to an
Speaker 1: end here on the podcast. Like Boys to Men once said,
Speaker 1: it's so hard to say goodbye, they also said Boys
Speaker 1: to Men ABC, BBD the East Coast Family, But that's
Speaker 1: not really important right now. What is important is that,
Speaker 1: based on your Instagram comments.
Speaker 6: East Coast Family, it works.
Speaker 1: She's not really She's not really quite important in the
Speaker 1: scheme of things, but I did just want to get
Speaker 1: it out. We are in for a bumpy ride based
Speaker 1: on reading your comments from here on out, and even
Speaker 1: though we are leaving what appears to be the peak
Speaker 1: of our show, we still have questions. What made this
Speaker 1: season so special? Why did everything come together during these shoots?
Speaker 1: What was the special sauce? We recently spoke to Jeff
Speaker 1: Sherman about the writer's room and his seminal scripts from
Speaker 1: that year, and today we've decided to go even further
Speaker 1: and talk to another creative mind who was so important
Speaker 1: to season four. We literally couldn't have done it without him.
Speaker 1: He's a director who not only was a leader for
Speaker 1: us on stage, but influenced our lives offset helping shape
Speaker 1: us into the adults we are today. And it seems
Speaker 1: you all love him too. At a recent live show
Speaker 1: in Connecticut, we were lucky enough to have him sitting
Speaker 1: in the audience, and some fans recognized and even asked
Speaker 1: him for a photo. Why is he such an expert?
Speaker 1: On season four he directed all twenty two episodes. So
Speaker 1: please welcome back to Podmeets World the most special Jeff McCracken.
Speaker 6: I hope he shows up wearing just an apron and painting.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be great? Pat and no shirt.
Speaker 4: There's still in better shape than I could ever hope
Speaker 4: to be in.
Speaker 2: My liafe now looking younger than us, that's about.
Speaker 1: Right, putting us all to shame, as per usual.
Speaker 5: Disappoint you.
Speaker 2: We're just on the covered in paint like you, just
Speaker 2: walking away from the canvas. Real quick little interview.
Speaker 5: So good to see you man, Good to see you guys.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, I'm still I'm still in a glow
Speaker 5: overseeing you in Hartford months ago.
Speaker 1: Always so great.
Speaker 3: Connecticut does that to people? You leave with the glow
Speaker 3: for the very beautiful state.
Speaker 1: We go absolutely, well, Jeff, we are so happy to
Speaker 1: have you back, and in such a celebratory way, because
Speaker 1: we loved season four so much and we won wanted
Speaker 1: to give you your flowers for it, and two we
Speaker 1: wanted to find out what made this time so special
Speaker 1: for making Boy meets World. First question, when we say
Speaker 1: season four, what are the first things that come to
Speaker 1: mind for you?
Speaker 5: Well, aside from the well, it was a terrific season.
Speaker 5: I mean, it was an amazing season, but I think
Speaker 5: the first three seasons really set it up. You know,
Speaker 5: those first three seasons really established all the characters and
Speaker 5: and gave us a rooting interest for everybody in the relationships.
Speaker 5: So I think we capitalized in season four. You know,
Speaker 5: I think we had an easy way to direct and
Speaker 5: focus our you know, our storylines. You know. I was
Speaker 5: just on a on a I WoT my dog in
Speaker 5: this creek called b B Brook and there's a suspension
Speaker 5: bridge over the over the river, and there's an engraving
Speaker 5: in the in the hand. Really it says it's by
Speaker 5: Threau and it says, uh, the universe is wider than
Speaker 5: our view of it. And as the season four kind
Speaker 5: of well, the whole show really but we're talking about
Speaker 5: season four. But it's kind of of how it's a
Speaker 5: great metaphor for the show because I think at the
Speaker 5: time we were, you know, making Boy Meets World, we
Speaker 5: didn't have a clue really as to the scope of it.
Speaker 5: You know that the fact it would have I just know,
Speaker 5: the demands of making the show and surviving week to
Speaker 5: week consumed are full and immediate attention. You know, none
Speaker 5: of us were thinking of of creating any kind of
Speaker 5: legacy or television folklore. I mean we were hanging by
Speaker 5: the you know, our fingernails week to week, you know,
Speaker 5: jumping budget demands, studio notes, network notes, ratings, time slat changes, sensors,
Speaker 5: stunt casting, figuring out sweep squeeks.
Speaker 2: You know, and you directed every single.
Speaker 4: That isn't that is so intense.
Speaker 5: It was intense because I was also the head of
Speaker 5: the company and I was also so uh we had
Speaker 5: four shows on the air at one time, and so
Speaker 5: we were running all over the place. You know, Thank god,
Speaker 5: we dinosaurs had already come to an end because you know,
Speaker 5: we had Bob Young. They are running, running, the running
Speaker 5: the room. And thank God for Bob because Bob, he
Speaker 5: was just a total you know, fantastic show runner, and
Speaker 5: I think he's a large part of why it was
Speaker 5: such a successful season four. I really, I really mean,
Speaker 5: because Michael was off. You know, he's juggling these the other
Speaker 5: shows and new shows too, which you know is very
Speaker 5: hard a new show, the demands are extraordinary, and so Bob,
Speaker 5: you know, he really stirred the show so that when
Speaker 5: Michael showed up for run throughs and for taping, he
Speaker 5: can easily shape that show. You know, Michael put his
Speaker 5: brand on it and help us, you know, with a
Speaker 5: fresh set of eyes and play. I mean, Michael was
Speaker 5: always around. I mean he was there for every run
Speaker 5: through and he was there giving notes and very involved.
Speaker 5: But but Bob was the was the anchor, and uh,
Speaker 5: he was incredibly reliable. He was like a utility player,
Speaker 5: you know, full who helped out wherever you know, he
Speaker 5: he was needed. And he was a true, true unsung
Speaker 5: hero who was intelligence and common sense. Yeah, train on
Speaker 5: the tracks.
Speaker 3: He was also so soft spoken that he kind of
Speaker 3: yeah he kept and talk about some hero.
Speaker 5: It's because he was.
Speaker 4: He was like in the background for us.
Speaker 2: His ego. He didn't need to assert it like he
Speaker 2: did not like constantly put himself front and center or
Speaker 2: make big speeches to us, or ever really let us
Speaker 2: know how much he was doing.
Speaker 3: That's well, I think until you just said it, I
Speaker 3: did not know that he was actually running the room.
Speaker 5: I mean he and he was also jumping on the
Speaker 5: other shows as well with Michael. He was Michael's partner,
Speaker 5: I mean Bob, he had a partner named Bob Meyer,
Speaker 5: who was they met. They were hired for My two
Speaker 5: dads were running team and my two dads so when
Speaker 5: Bob went his own way to run Roseanne Bob Meyer,
Speaker 5: Bob came over to Disney and worked with Michael, and
Speaker 5: he has own and uh to work with Michael and uh.
Speaker 5: And I have to say, if it went for Bob,
Speaker 5: those shows would not have been nearly as good because
Speaker 5: it was just overwhelming, you know, to do as many
Speaker 5: shows as as you know, he ran Dinosaurs. I mean
Speaker 5: when I was on Dinosaurs with him, he ran that room. Uh,
Speaker 5: it was it was basically Bob's show, really, I mean Michael,
Speaker 5: I meant anything way from Michael at all, but Bob
Speaker 5: was the nuts and bolts of that, you know, and
Speaker 5: we had a great staff on that as well. I
Speaker 5: mean that's The one thing too on boy Me's World
Speaker 5: is the success of that year with our writers, you know,
Speaker 5: going through each episode. I watched the entire season this week,
Speaker 5: and so I was like blown away. I really was
Speaker 5: listening to your podcast and listening to your insights which
Speaker 5: have been phenomenal, and but also getting a chance to
Speaker 5: relive it. I was shocked and really surprised at how
Speaker 5: much I remembered and how much impact it had on
Speaker 5: my life and uh and and being part of yours.
Speaker 6: It was really very special, such a great season.
Speaker 1: Do you remember anything about the transition from season three
Speaker 1: to four? You've obviously been listening to the podcast, and
Speaker 1: you know, we were getting older, we lost the Bullies,
Speaker 1: we lost Eli, We're starting to see less of alan Amy,
Speaker 1: and Turner is slowly fading to the wayside. Did you
Speaker 1: have goals or directives when facing the idea that you
Speaker 1: would be directing the entire season.
Speaker 5: That's a that's a good question. I I don't, you know.
Speaker 5: I I don't remember how that evolved. All I know
Speaker 5: is that when I season three was really fun to
Speaker 5: you know, the shows I directed on that on that season,
Speaker 5: that was really a fun season, and in a way
Speaker 5: they really get to know the rhythm rhythm of the show,
Speaker 5: and the actors and and and and the sensibilities of
Speaker 5: the show. By the end of season three, I'd fallen
Speaker 5: in love with the show. I really, I mean all
Speaker 5: you guys, I just fell in love with everybody. And
Speaker 5: so when Michael said to me, he said, well, I
Speaker 5: need I need a steady hand. You know, Bob's gonna
Speaker 5: be in the writer's room. You know, you're on the set.
Speaker 5: It was a way for him to make sure he
Speaker 5: was leaving the show in good hands, right to go
Speaker 5: off and do the other shows. And so I think
Speaker 5: that it was kind of a I just kind of
Speaker 5: assumed that, Okay, wherever I am needed, you know, I'm
Speaker 5: gonna do that. You know, I never had intention of
Speaker 5: directing and producing dinosaurs, as I said to you last time,
Speaker 5: I just want to do feature films. But once you
Speaker 5: get involved with something that you love and is really great,
Speaker 5: and then you just jump on board. So as far
Speaker 5: as our direction for the season four, I think, as
Speaker 5: I said before season three, set you all up, it
Speaker 5: was it was a natural aggression for me. You know,
Speaker 5: all the shows that we did, favorite shows from you know,
Speaker 5: in ranking them, like I got to go through them all,
Speaker 5: and really I love them all. But there's a I
Speaker 5: have favorites, you know, there's favorite that it really resonated
Speaker 5: with me personally and and then professionally and then artistically.
Speaker 5: So I think, you know, from that perspective, I think
Speaker 5: the writers did a great job of mining and putting
Speaker 5: forth those relationships again, you know, between you all, and
Speaker 5: you think about I mean, we covered so many bases
Speaker 5: in this season. I mean, if you think about really
Speaker 5: what we covered, I mean we went from you know,
Speaker 5: you know, teenage love, you know, up ending a teenager's
Speaker 5: life by you know, moving them to a different city.
Speaker 5: Parental abandonment, child of vanity.
Speaker 1: The importance of the as in college.
Speaker 5: Yes, definding one's identity, honoring one's potential and self worth,
Speaker 5: class prejudice, mortality with Tony, parental responsibility forgiveness, self respect,
Speaker 5: and not to mention, the best way to the e
Speaker 5: Coca buffs.
Speaker 4: I think that's that's been haircuts. No, wait, so I can't.
Speaker 3: I have to ask because you said that you went
Speaker 3: through and you watch the entire season and you kind
Speaker 3: of ranked them. What turned out to be your favorite
Speaker 3: episode of season four?
Speaker 5: Well, you know, for different reasons. You know, like I
Speaker 5: said you before you asked me that last time we
Speaker 5: talked and I and I mentioned and then there was
Speaker 5: seean and then I said along walk to Pittsburgh. And
Speaker 5: I didn't really I said it because for some I
Speaker 5: don't know why I said it time. Frankly, you just
Speaker 5: came to me and then rewatched watching the season again.
Speaker 5: They were my favorites again, both of those part one
Speaker 5: and part two. Part one written by Nelson, part two
Speaker 5: written by Bluckman and Busking. And the reason is because
Speaker 5: it's set up and established the hardcore relationship between Man
Speaker 5: and Danielle we've been thirsting for and being and have
Speaker 5: been promised. Now. I remember you in your podcast you
Speaker 5: were saying it was kind of like out of nowhere.
Speaker 5: You know that this relationship is already, you know, the
Speaker 5: struggle was compounded for out of thin ear almost.
Speaker 1: So those were your two favorites of season four, and
Speaker 1: it's a perfect time to ask. One of my questions
Speaker 1: was do you I'll be diplomatic now and say I
Speaker 1: know you love and respect all the writers, but did
Speaker 1: you have a favorite? Is there somebody's name on a
Speaker 1: script that when you saw their name on a script
Speaker 1: you would immediately go ooh, I know I'm in for
Speaker 1: something good.
Speaker 5: Well, they were all that, they all had a different
Speaker 5: personality and they all came through and every show is
Speaker 5: it's really quite quite amazing, you know. Uh, you know
Speaker 5: Nelson let us off and Jeff being a playwright and
Speaker 5: Jeff being uh a very sensitive soul. Uh. He was
Speaker 5: really wonderful from that respect, you know. And and I
Speaker 5: love Nelson and I love Sherman. I think they those
Speaker 5: two had the heart and soul that I always always
Speaker 5: uh kind of when I saw their name on a script.
Speaker 5: Here's where we're going, you know, Well in a bus gang,
Speaker 5: I knew was me funny. I knew we're gonna have
Speaker 5: a good time. You know. But that's not to say
Speaker 5: they all had their different different assignments and different ways
Speaker 5: to do it. And it was a writer's room, so
Speaker 5: they were all. They were all contributing. They were all
Speaker 5: in their swing swinging the bat together. So I don't
Speaker 5: you know, I don't have favorite man. Manel was always
Speaker 5: I you know, I used you could tell you know, Hibbert,
Speaker 5: I mean, my god, here wrote two great and Steve
Speaker 5: and so you know, there's these writers would you know
Speaker 5: their name would be on it, but I knew it
Speaker 5: was a group of effort. I'll ultimately put his stamp
Speaker 5: on it. I remember, you know those readwrites sometimes will
Speaker 5: go all night because you know it was just they
Speaker 5: wanted to make it great for you guys.
Speaker 4: It did almost seem like the writers.
Speaker 3: You know, I haven't been a part of many writers rooms,
Speaker 3: but it does almost seem like the writer that's assigned
Speaker 3: the script that gets their story through.
Speaker 4: It's almost like they write the tone of the episode
Speaker 4: and then it's thrown to the room and then the
Speaker 4: script is actually written. But you can feel a Hibbert episode.
Speaker 3: You can't feel an episode a Sherman episode like it's
Speaker 3: the feel of the writer. And then you can go, oh,
Speaker 3: that's a Bluman joke. Oh that's a Sherman joke. Read
Speaker 3: that's a Michael Jacobs read like you know, Michael no, no,
Speaker 3: Like you know that's how it happened.
Speaker 4: So it is interesting because that's true.
Speaker 3: You could we as we started watching them, especially when
Speaker 3: we have to watch them kind of in order and
Speaker 3: back to back to back, you can really get that
Speaker 3: feeling of it's up in a bus gang, something Wacky's
Speaker 3: gonna happen. You know what's gonna It's a Menel episode,
Speaker 3: like you just it does. Each writer has their own
Speaker 3: tone that very much comes through, especially in season four.
Speaker 5: And Janson Susan Jansen, I love I mean, you know,
Speaker 5: it's writers as a room. I loved every one of them.
Speaker 5: They're all so great. They were great people, you know,
Speaker 5: so that's the thing, you know, you don't have. There
Speaker 5: were no egos. There were there were you know, I
Speaker 5: know there were some certain tensions here and there about
Speaker 5: about uh uh, you know, titles and this and that sometimes,
Speaker 5: but but ultimately it didn't take anything away from their
Speaker 5: enthusiasm for dding for you guys. You know, I was
Speaker 5: seriously if it weren't for you guys there you were
Speaker 5: able to give these writers the ability to write as
Speaker 5: good episodes as they wrote because you demanded it, you know,
Speaker 5: you know, I said last time, you know, Bill Daniels
Speaker 5: kind of set the bar right from the beginning that
Speaker 5: this was you could You couldn't pander, You couldn't. You
Speaker 5: had to really own up and tell a good story
Speaker 5: and and honor good actors, you know, and give them
Speaker 5: material that they could you know, sink their teeth into
Speaker 5: and the other thing that I always remember, you know,
Speaker 5: I was watching these shows and how much we covered
Speaker 5: in twenty two minutes.
Speaker 7: Yeah, mines Per showing like like fishing for Verna, I mean,
Speaker 7: my god, dealing with a mother who abandoned her family
Speaker 7: and the comeback and by the end of the episode
Speaker 7: you're you're kind of going where you were rooting for them.
Speaker 7: It's like it's the paramount sin of of a parent
Speaker 7: to abandon their family, you know, and then to have
Speaker 7: that as a you know, the main storyline and then
Speaker 7: bring it into a full focus for redemption and reconciliation
Speaker 7: or the beginning of anyway. I really it's remarkable.
Speaker 2: And that's the episode where the lunch lady dies too, right,
Speaker 2: there's a lot going on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's true what you said about, especially about
Speaker 3: Build Daniels. When you start there with the casting bill
Speaker 3: made it very clear you're going to come up to
Speaker 3: my level. I'm not going down to yours. And so
Speaker 3: it was all of us kind of like, oh, that's
Speaker 3: where we need to be. And I think all of
Speaker 3: the writers really loved that, frankly, because it was like
Speaker 3: we can write whatever we want and hopefully we grew
Speaker 3: as actors as the show, and I mean clearly when
Speaker 3: you watch season one and season four, we're all just
Speaker 3: way better now. So to see that progression, I think
Speaker 3: you're right. I think when you do start with an
Speaker 3: anchor like Bill for our cast, and then you've got
Speaker 3: somebody like Michael anchoring just knowing family Sitcom, then everybody
Speaker 3: else moves.
Speaker 4: Up to that level when they can. And I think
Speaker 4: that shows frankly, no question.
Speaker 1: Well, right off the bat the season premiere you Can
Speaker 1: Go Home Again. We noticed immediately it looked like there
Speaker 1: were bigger budgets money. Production design was incredible, the new sets,
Speaker 1: the gigantic yocation, shoot driving scenes. Was there a significant
Speaker 1: difference in the budget or was it really just that
Speaker 1: people were getting their ten thousand hours?
Speaker 5: Oh no, no, no, there they they definitely we had
Speaker 5: we had, you know, the first show, and we were
Speaker 5: always fighting the budget. You know, we always wanted I mean,
Speaker 5: look at these guys. They would have me a script
Speaker 5: with you know, wrestling or you know, you know bmbs.
Speaker 5: All this stuff require new sets all the time, or
Speaker 5: look shooting.
Speaker 4: So singled out they were going on all these.
Speaker 5: I had invented a game show. What a game show
Speaker 5: would look like you know, singled out. We borrowed their set.
Speaker 5: You know, that was really fun. They were very very
Speaker 5: conciliatory and helpful, but again up to a point and
Speaker 5: it's okay, now it's your you know, you have to
Speaker 5: deal with it now. And uh. And then the wrestling
Speaker 5: show for you know, sixteen candles, that was the most
Speaker 5: difficult show. I say, it was just crazy. I mean
Speaker 5: I had to shoot the show like like I had
Speaker 5: like probably a one time I think eight to ten cameras.
Speaker 5: I had six cameras that they really they normally use
Speaker 5: for the first actuals.
Speaker 2: Right the w do covering them. They're covering them three
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty degrees, whereas we're usually only one direction.
Speaker 5: It was insane. And then I can't imagine always insane.
Speaker 5: And we only had one chat that you know, basically
Speaker 5: one take, maybe two takes. I had you running a
Speaker 5: couple of times, so we had coverage like at least
Speaker 5: twice and everything. But but it was insane. We had
Speaker 5: a full audience there and it was in It was nuts,
Speaker 5: but but it worked out great. We did our prep,
Speaker 5: we were all set and ready to go. You guys
Speaker 5: were phenomenal and so it really worked out nicely.
Speaker 1: But did you go to you were there for the
Speaker 1: all the wrestling stuff too, right, because I know there's
Speaker 1: a very fantastic behind the scenes picture of you in
Speaker 1: the ring with Ben and myself where you're blocking our
Speaker 1: dance sequence and Vader and and then are in the background.
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite pictures. I have an eight
Speaker 1: by ten of it. I absolutely love it. So I
Speaker 1: knew you were there for all of that. So were
Speaker 1: you it was at the pond, right?
Speaker 5: Oh yeah? Oh yeah, oh yeah, we we we First
Speaker 5: of all, we just the pre production alone. I was
Speaker 5: there several times just.
Speaker 1: Just going through looking at it.
Speaker 5: All the cameras and studying that, you know, w w
Speaker 5: uh have you know, coverage and shows and then I
Speaker 5: had I had there's so there were so many moving
Speaker 5: parts before we got into that arena, you know, to.
Speaker 1: Shoot and when were you doing this prep when you're
Speaker 1: not when you're on set every week leading up to it.
Speaker 5: Weekends were a big part of that, you know, weekends
Speaker 5: and then after the show, you know, I would after
Speaker 5: run through, I would run over to the pond and
Speaker 5: do all the work. But that's what always I was
Speaker 5: always I was. It was twenty four to seven. I
Speaker 5: never told my family your making right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why we got so much like your children.
Speaker 2: We're sorry to your real children.
Speaker 5: Yes, they held that against me for a little bit.
Speaker 1: But right now they were fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, bringing you onto their podcast.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 1: They've given them grand children, right. Well, the second episode
Speaker 1: of the season might just be my favorite of the
Speaker 1: rewatch hair Today, Goon tomorrow, which is when I cut
Speaker 1: my hair. What do you remember from this very high
Speaker 1: pressure day.
Speaker 5: Well, I remember your your Extrawdinarily, you were very nervous.
Speaker 5: I remember you being extraordinary nerves in a way that
Speaker 5: was like you were professional obviously, and I knew you
Speaker 5: were gonna be fine. But you know, we had one
Speaker 5: one shut, one take, yeah, and everyone's on pins and neils.
Speaker 5: You know, it was just one of those things. And
Speaker 5: and then when you did it, it was like I
Speaker 5: thought that scream was actually quite real.
Speaker 1: Everyone everyone was so sure that I was really scared
Speaker 1: about cutting my hair. But the truth is I was thrilled.
Speaker 4: You wanted to cut it. The whole week. You were like,
Speaker 4: I can't wait to cut it.
Speaker 1: I cannot wait. I wanted to do it more all summer,
Speaker 1: and the thing that scared me, of course, was the
Speaker 1: fact that I knew we only had one take and
Speaker 1: to set it up, you know, Jeff had come out
Speaker 1: to me. You would come out to me many times
Speaker 1: and said, listen, we only have it once. I need
Speaker 1: you to go, like, you're going to cut your hair,
Speaker 1: but you cannot cut it until I know we have
Speaker 1: it all. So it was like, so I'm gonna yell stop,
Speaker 1: But then the way I was gonna know if I
Speaker 1: could cut it, you weren't gonna yell stop. So I
Speaker 1: am like, many times, go to cut my hair and
Speaker 1: then you'd yell and come running out, and I'd be like,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna cut it, and then when I'm supposed to,
Speaker 1: it's just quiet, and I'm.
Speaker 4: Like, for real, forriller out because I'm gonna.
Speaker 1: Do it now, Like that's in my head. It was
Speaker 1: like and Michael. I remember Michael coming out and going
Speaker 1: show me where you're gonna cut, show me, show me
Speaker 1: where you're gonna do, Where are you gonna grab, where
Speaker 1: are you gonna grab And it was like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna grab her nope, lower nope, because he did not
Speaker 1: want it to be too short. Okay, and he knew
Speaker 1: I had control because I was gonna be the one
Speaker 1: with the scissors. So he wanted to know, show me again,
Speaker 1: show me again, what are you gonna do? Where are
Speaker 1: you gonna where are you grabbing it? Where are you
Speaker 1: gonna cut? And I was like, in my mind, I
Speaker 1: wanted it a little shorter. I knew he wanted it
Speaker 1: a little longer, and so yes, it was a very
Speaker 1: intense day.
Speaker 5: But boy, and then we're anxious to cut your hair.
Speaker 1: Though I had wanted to cut my hair for so long,
Speaker 1: the reason we did the episode is because I had
Speaker 1: called Michael the beginning of summer and said I want
Speaker 1: to cut my hair. Can I cut it? And he said,
Speaker 1: at least let me write an episode for it, So
Speaker 1: I had to wait all summer. So by the time
Speaker 1: we got to it, I had been ready to cut
Speaker 1: my hair for months. But we completely forgot and we
Speaker 1: were just couldn't believe it when we watched it that
Speaker 1: it was the same episode as Good Looking Guy, which
Speaker 1: which yeah, I mean, Mike, have been Will's biggest comedic episode.
Speaker 1: Yet you got to shoot another show opening for him,
Speaker 1: And so what do you remember about it? Because to
Speaker 1: us it was such just a massive reminder of what
Speaker 1: a huge star and a genius this guy is.
Speaker 5: Well, no question, you know, we didn't know, you know,
Speaker 5: going into it. Everything with Will was like, Okay, let's
Speaker 5: try this, you know, let's throw this at him. Le's
Speaker 5: see what we can do. And it's like amazing. Every
Speaker 5: time we threw anything at him, he would come up
Speaker 5: and commit a wholeheartedly to it. When it was bad,
Speaker 5: We'll always was good, seriously, you know. But but this
Speaker 5: particular episode with gellow boy, I mean that shallow boy,
Speaker 5: but the woman looking guy was I mean, so all
Speaker 5: these were set up pieces for him to showcase our
Speaker 5: our wonderful, comedic genius show, you know, and so and
Speaker 5: when he was really wonderful is that in this particular thing,
Speaker 5: well feeny, I mean the fact that well, anyway, I
Speaker 5: just think that Will nailed it. And and uh, throughout
Speaker 5: the week I saw, you know, he kind of got
Speaker 5: it right from the get go, he kind of had
Speaker 5: it already. It was it was almost like, you know,
Speaker 5: you don't want to peak too soon. That that was
Speaker 5: the thing about the show. Sometimes our run throughs were
Speaker 5: so good that where are we to do now? Because
Speaker 5: they're so good and uh, are we gonna get stale?
Speaker 5: But by the time we shoot, and so you know,
Speaker 5: the I think we always kind of held back a
Speaker 5: little bit, you know, but Will Will was always in
Speaker 5: there one hundred percent and he never failed to throw
Speaker 5: it one hundred percent every every through, every take, every
Speaker 5: It was just great, you know. And and what was
Speaker 5: nice too, he had a consistency but made it feel
Speaker 5: like very improvisational all the time. You know. It was
Speaker 5: like that wonderful moment, the moment that Miser talked, you know,
Speaker 5: Michael and I just go moment a moment, listen and
Speaker 5: have fun, you know, and with a point of view.
Speaker 5: You know, that's that was also great about all of
Speaker 5: you guys. You always always had always listened beautifully and
Speaker 5: you always had a great point of view, with the
Speaker 5: point of view which made it really engaging to watch.
Speaker 5: And because we were not interested in what you were saying,
Speaker 5: but how you were you know, were reacting And and
Speaker 5: that's what gave us our rooting interest for you guys,
Speaker 5: because we knew you were real and you you respected
Speaker 5: each other, and we were always in there with each other,
Speaker 5: taking care of each other as actors. It was really wonderful,
Speaker 5: really wonderful.
Speaker 1: Season four also marked the beginning the debut of the
Speaker 1: Wilderness Store, which is a pretty intense set.
Speaker 3: And we all set remember that, Jeff, we'd we'd be walking,
Speaker 3: We'd be like, well, let's do it back there ninety
Speaker 3: feet from the.
Speaker 2: Camera happened and that balcony because it was just too far.
Speaker 1: I know, there was one scene where where you guys
Speaker 1: were stacked on the stairs one time, and all I
Speaker 1: could picture was how you had to get the cameras
Speaker 1: all the way in there in order to be able
Speaker 1: to do it. We also seemed to remember it being
Speaker 1: used more than it was. I mean, there are quite
Speaker 1: a few scenes that take place in it, but they
Speaker 1: don't really necessarily showcase the Wilderness Store.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a shame it wasn't utilized more.
Speaker 1: Did you remember the bear that we had in there?
Speaker 5: I remember the bear last episode last podcast I talked
Speaker 5: to You was one of my favorite moments is when
Speaker 5: the bear stands up and and will we put a
Speaker 5: fan behind behind the camera? Air would be blown, you know.
Speaker 5: When the guy walked on said with the one arm,
Speaker 5: that was the best Troy. That to me was one
Speaker 5: of the best jokes and and it was nothing never
Speaker 5: mentioned it that was like, I love like that best.
Speaker 2: My favorite site as from the season was when the
Speaker 2: Affair to Forget episode where I just have a trophy,
Speaker 2: like I've just become a yuppie and we nevers it
Speaker 2: is completely like upper tennis player.
Speaker 3: So Danielle mentioned that, and I think we talked about
Speaker 3: this a little bit. Daniel mentioned that, you know, it's
Speaker 3: really starting to showcase more of us and kind of
Speaker 3: less of the parents. Was this something that was just
Speaker 3: a natural progression or is there an actual conversation about
Speaker 3: we need to focus this more on the younger kids
Speaker 3: than the adults.
Speaker 5: You know, I don't think it was ever a conscious
Speaker 5: decision and we never said we never said, oh, we're
Speaker 5: gonna focus more on the kids. I think you're right,
Speaker 5: and it was an actual progression. But if you look
Speaker 5: at the episodes closely, uh, they were still very pivotal.
Speaker 5: I mean, I mean Alan's whole storyline about to get
Speaker 5: the store to the store, you know, about his self
Speaker 5: worth and and and and sense of of of of relevance.
Speaker 5: And I think that everybody adults, you know, I never
Speaker 5: felt that they were being short drifted. Ever, when I
Speaker 5: watched this again. Their their function and I mean stings
Speaker 5: with with Feeney, Betsy and Rusty Uh, you know, and
Speaker 5: and when he's going through his his his job dilemma.
Speaker 5: It was one of the best scenes, I know, phenomenal
Speaker 5: There's those three of them and then Betsy knocking out
Speaker 5: of the park everything she got, I mean all of them.
Speaker 5: So they were a great uh. They were the backboard
Speaker 5: for you guys to hit the balls against. And I
Speaker 5: think they their relevance for me was just as strong
Speaker 5: as any other season because when you went to them,
Speaker 5: they gave They were the backbone for you guys to
Speaker 5: to to to uh to build on, and they were
Speaker 5: always the moral compass. They were always the kind of
Speaker 5: the the thing that gave you permission to be kids
Speaker 5: in a way, you know. Anyway. I just, I just
Speaker 5: I loved the evolution of that show of season four,
Speaker 5: and I don't you know, I think it's the beginning
Speaker 5: of that for sure, because season five, six and seven,
Speaker 5: you guys are off college and blah blah blah. So yeah,
Speaker 5: there their roles do do become diminish. I mean, I
Speaker 5: think the first selva was when when Turner uh is gone,
Speaker 5: you know, you start to see, you know, when Alex
Speaker 5: Deser disappears. I mean you certain people just start to
Speaker 5: get you know, because of the functionality of of twenty
Speaker 5: two minutes, you know, and trying to fit that many characters,
Speaker 5: and you can't. If it was an hour show, they
Speaker 5: would have been much more present.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk a little bit about Turner. What is
Speaker 1: your take on it? He was iced out pretty quickly
Speaker 1: and then we have the motorcycle accident, which we will
Speaker 1: get to later. What do you remember about the discussions
Speaker 1: of him leaving the show and was there any possibility
Speaker 1: that Turner being in the hospital was Michael's way of
Speaker 1: kind of pushing the hand. Was it a network thing?
Speaker 1: Was it a money things? We talked about the possibility
Speaker 1: that leaving it on a cliffhanger of him kind of
Speaker 1: in the hospital. Was there any sort of possibility that
Speaker 1: they were like, let us bring him back because people
Speaker 1: are going to want to see this resolved. What's your
Speaker 1: take on the Turner all I didn't want to kill him, right.
Speaker 5: That was not our right goal and that was and
Speaker 5: it was our discussion with with with bringing him back.
Speaker 5: Really it wasn't the money thing. Uh. We wasn't asking
Speaker 5: to become you know, better paid or anything like that.
Speaker 5: Tony was off for I think there were other interests.
Speaker 5: There was other interest in him, other shows. So I
Speaker 5: think he wanted, you know, there was a certain thing
Speaker 5: with giving him his freedom to be able to pursue
Speaker 5: those shows. And we didn't know you know, you know,
Speaker 5: it was kind of a thing where again the evolution
Speaker 5: of how much do we take from Bill, you know,
Speaker 5: and give the limited amount of time we have on screen,
Speaker 5: we wanted to make sure Bill was covered, you know,
Speaker 5: and and and that he was always the the main
Speaker 5: the main presence of teaching.
Speaker 2: So and the irony there is that he Tony has
Speaker 2: brought in second season in a way to have somebody
Speaker 2: to play off Bill. But then once the Sean Turner died,
Speaker 2: dynamic Turner became much more of the sort of home
Speaker 2: dynamic than the school dynamics. So yeah, that's that's ironic.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is in a way. But also because as
Speaker 5: you guys got older then then Feenie had more of interplay,
Speaker 5: more of an adult interplay with you guys, so Will,
Speaker 5: especially with Will, you know, I mean, there was just
Speaker 5: a thing there where Will was elevating to a point
Speaker 5: where that became the friendship.
Speaker 2: And their chemistry is just so good. I mean, you
Speaker 2: take these two characters, these two actors, very different energies,
Speaker 2: and you put them together.
Speaker 5: It's magic every time exactly. So I think that's that
Speaker 5: that was, you know, just just that that that dynamic
Speaker 5: between them. This makes me laugh every time I see
Speaker 5: them together. I just you know, uh, they just have
Speaker 5: this wonderful you know, quid pro quo. It's just the best.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: Well, we may have hit our first snag of season
Speaker 1: four with the singled Out episode. While we were watching,
Speaker 1: we all felt so much for you. This must have
Speaker 1: been a nightmare. What do you remember about hijacking their set?
Speaker 1: There hundreds of extras and maybe even you were we
Speaker 1: using their cameras as well. What do you remember about
Speaker 1: that week?
Speaker 5: Yeah, our camera guys came in. Okay, we we we did.
Speaker 5: We did use their their their their equipment.
Speaker 1: Do we use their jib?
Speaker 4: We did, of course.
Speaker 5: Ask Karen McCain, I always wanted a jib on every show.
Speaker 1: Every time I go to a set, I'm like, can
Speaker 1: I have a gym? The first thing you ask?
Speaker 5: Yep. But it cut down on a lot of cameras.
Speaker 5: Let me tell you the magical magical camera piece of equipment. Uh, anyway,
Speaker 5: I think single that was for me. It was one
Speaker 5: of those things that when you get the script and
Speaker 5: you read it, you go, Okay, this can go one
Speaker 5: of two ways. This could be really horrible or this
Speaker 5: could be fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think this show was like in between because uh,
Speaker 5: you know, thank god. You know, Jenny McCarthy didn't want
Speaker 5: to do the show.
Speaker 1: Right, Why didn't she want to do the show? What
Speaker 1: do you remember about it?
Speaker 5: Boy wirl?
Speaker 1: Right? It was a kid show.
Speaker 5: It was a kids show. She wanted a more adult
Speaker 5: She was for her own show, you know, in a
Speaker 5: movie career by the way, So she was really opting
Speaker 5: for that, you know, that was her thing. And and
Speaker 5: I don't even I don't even I didn't even her
Speaker 5: meet her. She was not a run at all. But
Speaker 5: Chris was awesome. Yeah, even Chris was kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 5: we'll do this, you know, he was, but I think
Speaker 5: that's his personality and the meet her way, you know,
Speaker 5: it's kind of like, uh, nothing phased him. He's just
Speaker 5: kind of going through it, you know. And and but
Speaker 5: he was really pleasant, really great. And then came through
Speaker 5: for us, and uh, and he improvised. He even will
Speaker 5: improvised a lot of that. By the way, there was
Speaker 5: a lot we.
Speaker 1: Did talk about whether or not that was improv.
Speaker 5: They were and that was wonderful because they kind of like,
Speaker 5: you know that they looked like me. Stuff was written,
Speaker 5: but then you guys would riff on some other things,
Speaker 5: really really funny.
Speaker 3: I don't remember this day at all at all.
Speaker 1: Been very strange.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't remember it. I don't never worked Stones,
Speaker 4: It never worked Stone. But yeah, no I don't, I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't. Yeah, I have no, I mean, like at all.
Speaker 3: To the point where there's a photo of myself and
Speaker 3: Chris Hardwick and Jason Marsden.
Speaker 4: So I thought Jason was in the episode.
Speaker 5: Oh really, no he was. He was just hanging out. Well,
Speaker 5: it was chaos. It was chaos because you know, it
Speaker 5: was more chaos actually than the wrestling show because really yeah,
Speaker 5: because they were more moving pieces with their show, you know.
Speaker 5: And we had all those girls extras if you were closely.
Speaker 5: I shouldn't say this, but we actually re used them,
Speaker 5: some of them.
Speaker 4: We saw that, we saw those girls back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we saw that to be there Jeff and I
Speaker 1: said it on the podcast. I think what happened because
Speaker 1: it's what happens when you have limited time, you shoot
Speaker 1: all you shoot, Okay, stand full of extras, all right,
Speaker 1: everybody make loud noises now, slower noises now, all those
Speaker 1: reaction shots and.
Speaker 4: Then just put them in and then yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And then somebody in editing was just like, go back
Speaker 1: to that shot and you either wasn't exactly.
Speaker 5: Marco Zabi was our editor, and I remember going to
Speaker 5: edit the show because the director gets his first cuts.
Speaker 5: And by the way, Janelle, I watch your low Pez
Speaker 5: versus Low Pez and I just want to say it
Speaker 5: again to you how wonderful they were.
Speaker 1: And I know you sent me such a nice email.
Speaker 1: I read it to Jensen immediately. I was like, Jeff
Speaker 1: sent me the.
Speaker 5: Nicest, fantastic really, congratulations, thank you so much. Yeah. No,
Speaker 5: but but this, you know, this is this is the
Speaker 5: type of thing where you go, Okay, first of all,
Speaker 5: I'm using their cameras. I'm trying to figure out how
Speaker 5: to make a how to do the four camera presentation
Speaker 5: to get the show, you know, and and to look
Speaker 5: like it's still our show. But then also, you know,
Speaker 5: inside the game show. So there was like two set
Speaker 5: there's like two things to do, and so we had
Speaker 5: to shoot it once as a kind of a wide
Speaker 5: shot kind of like like the show, and then come
Speaker 5: in for the coverage, and so it was, uh, it
Speaker 5: was kind of and so we had to really pick
Speaker 5: up and and you know, thank god for Kathy Gario supervisor,
Speaker 5: who was on top of every moment, you know, and
Speaker 5: where we were, how we needed and uh yeah, I
Speaker 5: relied on her a lot of that episode, and so
Speaker 5: we we really had. It was kind of just discombinated.
Speaker 5: And I have to say it when I walked out
Speaker 5: of there, I didn't know what we had. Don't know
Speaker 5: those things. I knew we had the coverage, but I
Speaker 5: don't know we had the performances. I don't really know
Speaker 5: if if this is going to cut together nicely. I
Speaker 5: don't know if this is going to be something that
Speaker 5: you know that I'm going to be, you know, like you.
Speaker 4: But it's also such a different energy from our show.
Speaker 3: We're yelling our lines over the crowd and we don't
Speaker 3: I mean, it was just it was jarring to be
Speaker 3: out of our comfort zone in a completely different environment
Speaker 3: where again even the dialogue was kind of shouted, so
Speaker 3: it was it was strange.
Speaker 2: But that's like every other episode this season. I starting
Speaker 2: with the yogurt cup, going through like everything, I mean,
Speaker 2: and you were talking about single out, but you also
Speaker 2: had to build the whole game show for the quiz
Speaker 2: show episode, and that was on our set. But still
Speaker 2: do you have like five brand new actors on the
Speaker 2: set running this show and all these oh my god,
Speaker 2: some moments.
Speaker 1: Some moments. I was like, it's like dance numbers for
Speaker 1: every for everything, there was a dance number basically that
Speaker 1: you had to block and shoot.
Speaker 5: That was fun, and I have to say, you know,
Speaker 5: you go, okay, we're going to do the same thing
Speaker 5: every week, every week every week, you know, the four
Speaker 5: cameras and you know, do a thing and we're out.
Speaker 5: You know. Giving those kind of challenges for me was
Speaker 5: really fun. I I even though, you know, probably pulled
Speaker 5: my hair out a few times, but but you know,
Speaker 5: at the end of the day, you're you. We pulled
Speaker 5: it off and it was just great, you know, I mean,
Speaker 5: because it was different, it was and I think it
Speaker 5: also lend itself to season four in the sense that
Speaker 5: we were giving our audience something you know a little
Speaker 5: more you know, gravy on the show, you know, yeah,
Speaker 5: a little more cherry.
Speaker 2: We upped our game all the way around the writing.
Speaker 2: I feel like the acting and in the direction, like
Speaker 2: we all upped our game.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, speaking of Quiz Show, I I in particular, was
Speaker 1: a huge fan of the episode. I ended up really
Speaker 1: enjoying it. Do you have any particular memories of Phil Leads?
Speaker 5: Oh? Yeah, Phil.
Speaker 4: Didn't want to Phil.
Speaker 5: He had a litany of jokes. Yeah, dirty jokes. Yeah.
Speaker 5: And I don't know if he I asked him at
Speaker 5: one point please refrain really. Oh yeah, no, I to
Speaker 5: please because you know it's like Buddy Hackett.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh please, Can we talk about Buddy? I want that.
Speaker 2: I want that.
Speaker 3: Wait do you I have to I have to first
Speaker 3: ask do you remember any Phil Leads jokes?
Speaker 1: Jokes?
Speaker 5: Oh no, I don't know. God, I wish I did.
Speaker 5: But all I know is that he would crack these
Speaker 5: jokes and they were, you know, in his delivery was
Speaker 5: just the best and very ride roll and and uh
Speaker 5: but no, I don't remember. All I remember is being
Speaker 5: shocked half the time, like.
Speaker 1: I can't believe he just said that.
Speaker 5: Yoke and and I was always like saying, okay, Phil,
Speaker 5: you know, Michael loved it. I mean, Michael loved Phil
Speaker 5: and and and so I don't know, I don't know
Speaker 5: if the joke played, you know, and he's announcing the show.
Speaker 1: He's so generate, it's I don't know. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know when you listened to that one, because it's the
Speaker 1: one that just came out, like, okay, it is, and
Speaker 1: we talk about it, the fact that he's the that
Speaker 1: he's the only thing that stays, and but his delivery
Speaker 1: doesn't even change. It's just that you added.
Speaker 2: The layer onto that episode of like production in jokes,
Speaker 2: like the fact that the production value of the show
Speaker 2: keeps upping while the entertainrating are so clever man, and
Speaker 2: it totally works. It's like, yeah, I did not like.
Speaker 4: The I was like, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: He started off being like it was an episode, and
Speaker 1: writer was like I liked it, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, guys, I love this episode. And by
Speaker 1: the time we were done, Will's like, it's.
Speaker 4: The best episode, the best episode we've ever done.
Speaker 5: You know, the geness of it, right, the genesis. You know,
Speaker 5: we did the movie Quiz.
Speaker 4: Show, we talked about this yeah.
Speaker 5: We thought, okay, let's let's do something on our show
Speaker 5: that kind of mirrors that, you know.
Speaker 2: Can we can we go back to Buddy Hackett and
Speaker 2: Super Sales. What do you remember about that week and
Speaker 2: did we have an audience with them or did we
Speaker 2: refuse you remember they were no.
Speaker 5: We I think we pre taped him. Here is why,
Speaker 5: because remember when we was wonderful to pre tap because
Speaker 5: you know, we would gave us a break and and
Speaker 5: and the audience could see something all the way through
Speaker 5: without stopping and starting or and then moving right into
Speaker 5: the next next piece. Uh. It was, it was. It
Speaker 5: was always nice to have that pre shooting on Thursdays.
Speaker 5: But I I remember, I think soupy, and I think
Speaker 5: it was I think it was about dates. I think
Speaker 5: Buddy had a date in Vegas or something he had
Speaker 5: to get to. We had to get him in out soup.
Speaker 5: He was more affable, you know, in terms of or
Speaker 5: I should say nollable with the schedule he was. He
Speaker 5: was able to. But but I remember Buddy had to
Speaker 5: come and go, you know. So I think I think we, yeah, we.
Speaker 3: Could any of it been done in front of the audience,
Speaker 3: because I have a very distinct memory that I talk
Speaker 3: about on the podcast of him saying, oh, that was
Speaker 3: a premature ejaculation and the whole audience going oh yeah,
Speaker 3: and it was like.
Speaker 5: No, you're right. There was one scene we did so
Speaker 5: maybe maybe no I remember that, well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, may have happened in front of network run through,
Speaker 1: and that it still got the whole stage to react
Speaker 1: that way, and that was it.
Speaker 5: I remember when he said that. I think that was also, yeah, No,
Speaker 5: I remember that. No, I do. No. We were all
Speaker 5: nervous about him, but we loved him. I mean, he
Speaker 5: was so much fun to be around, and he was
Speaker 5: just a character.
Speaker 6: Oh my god, stories never stopped.
Speaker 5: Stories, the stories, the stories, and him and SUPI together
Speaker 5: were just wonderful. I mean, first there was just like
Speaker 5: a contention like who's gonna be funnier? You know, who's
Speaker 5: got the funnier line?
Speaker 1: We heard there was a competition about how many lines
Speaker 1: each person.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, they were like they were like going over it
Speaker 5: like by letter, you know, and so we're like, Okay,
Speaker 5: this is gonna be fun. But as soon as they
Speaker 5: got into the characters, you know, and they could play
Speaker 5: off each other a little bit, they were they were fine,
Speaker 5: you know, they were fine. But yeah, that that was
Speaker 5: during rehearsals, it was always about I'm gonna be a
Speaker 5: little louder, i wanna be a little funnier, you know,
Speaker 5: there was a little more, you know, it was it
Speaker 5: was definitely funny to watch, you know, but I knew
Speaker 5: by the time the cameras rolled, these guys were pros
Speaker 5: and they and they they were great.
Speaker 1: You well, also with season four, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: the Hunter trailer. Around this time, there's this new set,
Speaker 1: a new dynamic, and we think if somebody had just
Speaker 1: started watching the show around there this time, there's no
Speaker 1: way you could convince them that the boy in Boy
Speaker 1: Meets World was anyone other than writer and writer and Will.
Speaker 1: The episodes just seemed to keep flipping between which one
Speaker 1: of them was driving the episodes. So was with all
Speaker 1: of that going on, was there ever any talk about
Speaker 1: the shift in focus or was it just organic?
Speaker 5: I remember there was there was a with a studio
Speaker 5: and the network. You know, it was very funny. You know,
Speaker 5: we never really had a bible for the season. We
Speaker 5: never you know, we all we didn't say, oh, this
Speaker 5: is what's going to happen overall in the season that
Speaker 5: never really took pay. Michael would and when the studios
Speaker 5: that we want this, the networks that we want this,
Speaker 5: Michael would say yeah. He would glad hand them and say,
Speaker 5: of course yes. He would immediately tell him what He
Speaker 5: would immediately turn what they said to him into what
Speaker 5: he wanted. He was masterful at that. And then they
Speaker 5: were they would not because he's telling him that he
Speaker 5: was convincing him that he was taking their note, but
Speaker 5: he was going to do it his way, so and
Speaker 5: they understood that too. But but but the bottom line
Speaker 5: was I think that Michael always had a keen sense
Speaker 5: of the stories he wanted to tell, the areas he
Speaker 5: wanted to explore. And I think Fishing for Verna, just
Speaker 5: to give you a quick that was the most And
Speaker 5: when you say one of the hardest shows I had
Speaker 5: to direct, I would say Sixteen Candles was the tough
Speaker 5: production wise, but Fishing and Verna was the most personally
Speaker 5: difficult to direct. And there's why my dad abandoned me
Speaker 5: when I was eleven years old, the oldest of four kids,
Speaker 5: and he abandoned my mom and us, and we had
Speaker 5: no money and we had to go live in the
Speaker 5: ghetto of Chicago, and and figure out how to survive.
Speaker 5: So mm hmm, when when Verna, when that that storyline
Speaker 5: came up with my Explorer, it was kind of feeding
Speaker 5: off story and and and then my dad never came back.
Speaker 5: I didn't see him. He took off. And and so
Speaker 5: the fact that she came back was kind of great
Speaker 5: because it kind of gave me a chance to live
Speaker 5: vicariously as if. Oh my god, it was very intense. Writer.
Speaker 5: So when you were doing that episode, I watched you
Speaker 5: very carefully. You were you know, you you really hit
Speaker 5: all the notes beautifully, really beautifully. And I and I
Speaker 5: there's very little I could tell you instinctively coming from
Speaker 5: a healthy, well adjusted family and being the great young
Speaker 5: man you were, Uh, you understood it. You you you
Speaker 5: had a sense about it. You know, you could identify
Speaker 5: with with being abandoned. I don't know if your personal
Speaker 5: life was at that point with girls or whatnot, but
Speaker 5: you totally hooked into what it was to be abandoned.
Speaker 1: Yeah. His empathy has always been through the roof.
Speaker 5: Yeah, always, And so that was wonderful. You gave me
Speaker 5: a great release in that episode to be able to
Speaker 5: direct you in that show and watch you navigate that
Speaker 5: emotional arc and taking care of your dad.
Speaker 2: That's funny because I actually didn't remember the specific your
Speaker 2: own personal history, but I always felt that Sean and
Speaker 2: Jeff McCracken were kind of of a piece of it,
Speaker 2: like and I remember thinking that, Like I remember talking
Speaker 2: to you about avoiding people and avoiding confrontation, and you
Speaker 2: were We just had great conversations about, you know, acting conversations,
Speaker 2: and I feel like for me, and this makes sense
Speaker 2: now because in my mind it was like, well, Jeff
Speaker 2: was Jeff is the touchstone for how Sean was as
Speaker 2: a team. I always in my mind you were Sewn
Speaker 2: as a teenager. That's how I remember it. And it
Speaker 2: was like Matt Nelson was writing the voice of Sean
Speaker 2: in the like sort of sentimentality, but like you were
Speaker 2: the Shawn who like, yeah, I was good with the ladies,
Speaker 2: but it was like totally emotionally avoidant. Like that's that's
Speaker 2: in my mind. So yeah, you communicated that to me
Speaker 2: and we we built that together.
Speaker 6: It's so fun Oh wow.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So that's that was the thing. And the in
Speaker 5: fact that you took care of your dad like that
Speaker 5: and became closer to him by virtue of that wanting
Speaker 5: to be a better dad all of that. I was like, whoa,
Speaker 5: this is like entering areas that i've you know, got
Speaker 5: I got a chance to heal a little bit, you know.
Speaker 5: But it's but it's it was, it was. It was
Speaker 5: monumental for me that show is difficult. But then I'll
Speaker 5: probably personally very rewarding, you know.
Speaker 3: But that's I mean, that's one of the reasons why
Speaker 3: I think season four was so good is that we
Speaker 3: always felt your emotional connection to the show and to us. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and so I think that just translated to a set
Speaker 3: that we were all family and part of a team,
Speaker 3: and it was just yeah, we were all there together,
Speaker 3: and we.
Speaker 4: Took seriously yes.
Speaker 2: And it never like just stand over there, why because
Speaker 2: you should, which is what directors do. Like you have
Speaker 2: directors that say that, we have many of them on
Speaker 2: this show.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: It's just like you got to stand over here, then
Speaker 2: you go over here, it's for camera, do it. You
Speaker 2: never never gave us that. It was always like, why
Speaker 2: don't you want to do it, let's talk about it,
Speaker 2: let's take the time.
Speaker 4: We were all in it together.
Speaker 3: We just always felt like we were all in it together,
Speaker 3: like you were part of the ensemble, and it was
Speaker 3: it just made everything. I mean we've literally pointed out
Speaker 3: on the show, especially with me, where there are times
Speaker 3: where my performance is not as good and Writer will
Speaker 3: be like, well did you see who directed it?
Speaker 4: And it's somebody else directed it.
Speaker 3: Like there was just something that was You made it
Speaker 3: very comfortable to where you got the best performances.
Speaker 4: I mean, just you could tell and season four.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a mistake that so far season
Speaker 3: four and from what we've heard, season four is the
Speaker 3: pinnacle of the show, and that you directed the entire season.
Speaker 3: Either that's not, that's not by those two things are
Speaker 3: the same.
Speaker 4: So it was. I mean we felt that the whole time.
Speaker 4: So it was amazing.
Speaker 1: Well, there are two more episodes I specifically want to highlight.
Speaker 1: One of them is Chick Like Me. It's just such
Speaker 1: an iconic episode of our show, and to everyone's credit,
Speaker 1: did not make us feel cringey, even with our twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four eyes. So kudos to everybody. What are your
Speaker 1: memories of Writer and Ben dressing as their female counterparts?
Speaker 5: Well, I just never had so much fun on that show.
Speaker 5: That was one of those great, great fun shows that
Speaker 5: were you could do no wrong, just put those guys
Speaker 5: in dresses and oh my god, just gallelight. You know,
Speaker 5: you know a lot of the homage that Michael would do.
Speaker 5: You know, he has a lot of favorite shows, you know,
Speaker 5: like A Hot the Odd, Unculpable. I mean you can
Speaker 5: see his influences and imbued into these shows and their
Speaker 5: relationships with different episodes and A New Leaf, all these
Speaker 5: there's all these moments said he just adores and films
Speaker 5: that he brought to the table A New Leaf.
Speaker 6: I just watched that recently. Movies, what are a masterpiece?
Speaker 5: A masterpiece?
Speaker 2: Blaine May totally missed masterpiece? Yeah, all of her about
Speaker 2: all of Elaine May stuff is missed. Ishtar just go
Speaker 2: watch your start. It's brilliant, I know.
Speaker 5: Isn't it.
Speaker 4: Though it's brilliant.
Speaker 2: It's for you. Will you have to watch A New Leaf.
Speaker 2: The first like forty five minutes of A New Leaf.
Speaker 2: I was crying, laughing. I have not laughed that hard.
Speaker 5: A genius.
Speaker 4: Elaine May is a genius.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredible, justas the horse down and walking.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I gotta watch it.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, it's so funny. You love it anyway,
Speaker 5: but we're talking about we don't know, like so no
Speaker 5: the dresses when when I never knew I mean when
Speaker 5: you guys would look like in dresses and stuff. They
Speaker 5: did a phenomenal job with the both of you, you know,
Speaker 5: and Ben was so funny because he has the thing
Speaker 5: about him there's a certain there's a certain uh uh
Speaker 5: Quirky has with his head that he can he does
Speaker 5: his head and it was so perfect for the chick, you.
Speaker 1: Know, Cora when he was was so great and then
Speaker 1: he looks.
Speaker 5: In the mess, it's just perfect. So then so then
Speaker 5: when he when winner says oh no, no, no no,
Speaker 5: and then you peek out from around the corner. My god,
Speaker 5: it was went absolutely crazy and I have to remember,
Speaker 5: you know, guys were like going, hey man looking it
Speaker 5: was really yeah, but so I it was a good ramp,
Speaker 5: and yeah it was. It was really great. Though is
Speaker 5: the fact that the underlying dynamic was just so so well.
Speaker 1: The message is so impactful.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 5: Written it still works, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's
Speaker 5: an interesting thing that you just brought up. Will still works.
Speaker 5: What do you think I mean this show's got legs
Speaker 5: because you think the shows are still resonate with young adults,
Speaker 5: and that the core values of the show. I mean,
Speaker 5: you think there's still relevant given today's attitudes and mora's
Speaker 5: and morals.
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, I mean so far, I would say yes, overall,
Speaker 3: I think they are. And I also think, frankly a
Speaker 3: type of show like this that speaks to a certain
Speaker 3: type of morality without shoving it down your throat. I
Speaker 3: think a lot of people are missing that. I think
Speaker 3: one of the things we keep hearing is there are
Speaker 3: no shows like Boy Mets World anymore? Where are the
Speaker 3: shows like this? Why can't we get a show like
Speaker 3: this anymore? So, yes, I think it's another reason generation
Speaker 3: after generation are finding the show, not only because the
Speaker 3: it's still relevant to this day, that it tackled subjects
Speaker 3: like this without being cringey. I know that we have
Speaker 3: episodes downline, like when I put on the dress, it's
Speaker 3: going to be very cringey because it's just for a joke.
Speaker 3: It's just it's it's not played at all to learn anything.
Speaker 3: Eric doesn't learn anything. It's just being ridiculous. That stuff's
Speaker 3: going to be cringey. This stuff like Chick Like Me
Speaker 3: was you could watch, We watch it and we were
Speaker 3: all like, ugh, I wonder what this is going to be,
Speaker 3: like we haven't seen it in a while, and we
Speaker 3: all saw it.
Speaker 4: We're like, no, this totally works up still, so absolutely.
Speaker 5: Yeah. That's the thing about most Almost every episode has
Speaker 5: a laugh out loud moment that I just absolutely ented.
Speaker 1: You know, well, glad you said it. Yeah, because one
Speaker 1: episode that doesn't really have a whole bunch of laugh
Speaker 1: out loud moments is cult fiction.
Speaker 5: I was laughing, but not.
Speaker 1: This episode was wild. We've got Sean dealing with what
Speaker 1: we have to assume is a version of scientology, and
Speaker 1: then Turner is thrown into a coma and Alan says
Speaker 1: he's going to kill Jerry Levine at one point kill
Speaker 1: it has for sure. It has the least amount of
Speaker 1: laughs in a Boy Meets World episode up until this point.
Speaker 5: Good point, good point. You know. One of the things
Speaker 5: I don't like bring up the musical stings. I hate them.
Speaker 5: I think they're soap opery and they were not needed.
Speaker 5: They should you know, Ray brilliant, Yes, he overdid it,
Speaker 5: you know, and and and Michael didn't say no, so
Speaker 5: I I just maybe the network was saying we need more.
Speaker 5: I don't know, but I never heard that. I just
Speaker 5: know that that was raised proclivity and and uh to
Speaker 5: to over music. It sometimes tamp it down, Ray, tamp
Speaker 5: it down. You know, this is not about you, but uh,
Speaker 5: but those stings, I hate it, you know, I just
Speaker 5: did not like them. It was telegraphing the sentimentality, and
Speaker 5: I didn't like it at all. I thought, you've done
Speaker 5: the work. You don't need to, you know, sak over
Speaker 5: the head. Leave it alone. But that was that's my
Speaker 5: own really pet peeve on the show. Anyway, back to
Speaker 5: Cold Fiction, I thought Jerry Levine, Let mean, he's a
Speaker 5: buddy of Michael's in mind more Michael. He grew up
Speaker 5: with Michael in New Jersey, and uh, I met Jerry
Speaker 5: through Michael in New York and his wife Nina Tassler,
Speaker 5: who was ahead of CBS at one point, and they're
Speaker 5: just they were great people. We hung out in New
Speaker 5: York all the time together. So when Jerry was going
Speaker 5: to do this episode, I didn't know if he could
Speaker 5: do it. You know, I don't know what his take
Speaker 5: was going to be on it, and I thought he
Speaker 5: was not perfect because he balanced this this dynamic of
Speaker 5: being charming sleazy, but also you really seem to It's
Speaker 5: a very genuine at times because the kind of disarming
Speaker 5: thing about him and why I believe that that that
Speaker 5: Sean could like give him and that's why, you know,
Speaker 5: and I thought, and also real quickly, everything we gave you, guys,
Speaker 5: drama or comedy, we would we would throw the we
Speaker 5: would throw the curveball, the slider, we we we threw
Speaker 5: so much at you. You always delivered. You always found
Speaker 5: a way into it. And uh, without you know, over
Speaker 5: sentimentality or without being over dramatic, or without being too
Speaker 5: clownish or too crazy. There was a nice medium for
Speaker 5: the most part. And there's a couple of times I
Speaker 5: see things I go, well, that was a Michael oof,
Speaker 5: you know, and it seemed a little bit unnatural sometimes
Speaker 5: where this or that, but it was still funny, it
Speaker 5: was still great. But I always was amazed at how
Speaker 5: you guys always took what we gave you and and
Speaker 5: and rose to the occasion and cult fiction, you know.
Speaker 5: With the writer most it was probably the most difficult transition,
Speaker 5: I think, almost ane show of the season, because he
Speaker 5: had to go from this kid who's kind of like
Speaker 5: a little lost but still he's he's a rebel, he's
Speaker 5: this guy, is self possessed, he's cocky, he's this, he's that,
Speaker 5: And all of a sudden, he goes into this zone
Speaker 5: of of insecurity and low self esteem and no self
Speaker 5: worth and and then all of a sudd he's he's
Speaker 5: scubbled up by this this girl and brought to this
Speaker 5: this cult center, and he kind of finds a home.
Speaker 3: No, no, I mean he's he's in the cult for
Speaker 3: an hour and he's in hook Line.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. But he has to take that journey in
Speaker 1: what we believe is an hour exactly.
Speaker 5: And what was wonderful about it because I knew that
Speaker 5: was always going to be the biggest challenge for him
Speaker 5: as an actor to try and figure out how to
Speaker 5: slide into that in a way that gave him the
Speaker 5: ability to be believable. And I thought he did it
Speaker 5: great because what you what you you see in him
Speaker 5: is in the beginning, he's very you know, he's distrustful,
Speaker 5: he's kind of like, you know, we still see the Sean,
Speaker 5: the Sean. All of a sudden, this girl has some
Speaker 5: sort of like magical spell on him, and once he
Speaker 5: gets the center, it's kind of like everyone's doing his
Speaker 5: name and he's looking around and he has this kind
Speaker 5: of beautific switch in his in his face that kind
Speaker 5: of goes, wow, they actually see me. They actually they're
Speaker 5: actually seeing me and in witnessing me. And that was
Speaker 5: to me, that was the moment that I went, Okay,
Speaker 5: this is how it happens. This is how it happened. Right.
Speaker 5: I thought I did it great?
Speaker 1: Just so did I. I thought I thought he was
Speaker 1: with what he had to work with for as dramatic
Speaker 1: as it was supposed to be. I thought he did
Speaker 1: a great job.
Speaker 5: I agree. And then the Turner, when Turner gets hurt.
Speaker 5: I remember the day, we remember the day we shot
Speaker 5: this writer, when you had to go there.
Speaker 2: I mean I remember the table read more than the day.
Speaker 5: Why well, I was just saying you, you know, you
Speaker 5: have such integrity as an actor, and and and when
Speaker 5: it wasn't feel truthful to you, or there was something
Speaker 5: that wasn't you know, you really had to believe in
Speaker 5: it in order to do it lots of times, and
Speaker 5: sometimes that you didn't have a chance to even process
Speaker 5: it because we were throwing things at you so fast,
Speaker 5: sometimes adjustments or this or that.
Speaker 4: But in this.
Speaker 5: Particular, and you had all week to kind of you know,
Speaker 5: you knew you were going to do this speech to him,
Speaker 5: and we knew we didn't want it to be you know,
Speaker 5: overly dramatic and whatnot, and and and we wanted you
Speaker 5: to have the freedom to do it the way you
Speaker 5: wanted to do it. Really, I don't think we ever
Speaker 5: gave you really a note ever how to do it. Uh.
Speaker 5: You in the runthroughs, you were kind of very you know,
Speaker 5: quiet about it, and you were very you know, you
Speaker 5: understood the material and you you were very you were
Speaker 5: on point. And I knew, okay, you know, when we
Speaker 5: when we shoot this thing, I know he's gonna I
Speaker 5: know he's gonna touch into more stuff. And you did.
Speaker 5: It was really beautiful because what you did was you
Speaker 5: you got the thing of oh god, damn man, you
Speaker 5: know I'm not going to have you anymore, you know it.
Speaker 5: It was really hutching to me. You really did a
Speaker 5: great job.
Speaker 1: Really, yes, he did.
Speaker 6: Oh thanks Jeff Man.
Speaker 5: You really did. And I think we only did two takes,
Speaker 5: you know, you did it two takes of that and
Speaker 5: the first take is what we used.
Speaker 4: So yeah, that was great, Oh man, really well done.
Speaker 1: Well, Jeff, after doing all twenty two episodes in season four,
Speaker 1: you only come back to direct us for three in
Speaker 1: season five. So in season true you have and then
Speaker 1: there was Sean and then a few other ones, and
Speaker 1: then you do season seven in season six and four
Speaker 1: in season seven and Lynn does two in that final
Speaker 1: season as well. Why where were you for most of
Speaker 1: season five? Where had you gone?
Speaker 5: Well, this is all right, Sherman and I went over.
Speaker 5: David Training directed this part oft called You Wish Jeanie
Speaker 5: John Nails and Harley Jane Kozak was the mom I
Speaker 5: dream of Genie, you know, contemporized with two kids, and
Speaker 5: and David trying to directed the pilot and it was
Speaker 5: it was okay, you know, it wasn't great. It was
Speaker 5: my favorite. And Michael said, I need you to go
Speaker 5: on the show. It's it's it's it's it needs.
Speaker 2: To keep the ship afloat. Please.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 5: It was the worst experience I think I've ever had.
Speaker 5: Oh it was. You know, when you deal with a genie,
Speaker 5: it gives a license to the writers to write anything
Speaker 5: they want because you can just go, you know, wiggle
Speaker 5: his nose or you know where it was.
Speaker 2: And in fact, they kind of have to write to
Speaker 2: deliver on the premise, you have to have big set pieces,
Speaker 2: and and.
Speaker 5: They had a dollhouse. They actually built a doll house
Speaker 5: for the gene to live in a life side. I mean,
Speaker 5: I mean that's right. I remember going to that set
Speaker 5: and he was in this dowhouse, you know, pink dowhouse,
Speaker 5: and this where he lived as the Genie, And I said,
Speaker 5: why can't he just live in a bottle? You know?
Speaker 5: Terway and so anyway, but this they all thought was
Speaker 5: cute and funny, and so I had to I had
Speaker 5: to create a new way of shooting a show. I
Speaker 5: mean I did that on Dinosaurs with two cameras, and
Speaker 5: then I had to do create a new way to
Speaker 5: shoot the show on a new wish and we shot
Speaker 5: it like a film show for the most part. And
Speaker 5: we had Jerry Vandyk who was hysterical. We had Jessica
Speaker 5: Walter who was hysterical. I mean, these were great actors,
Speaker 5: but the writing was I don't I don't even remember
Speaker 5: who's on the staff. They said from Sherman and I
Speaker 5: commiserating with each other. That was just they were just bad.
Speaker 5: And we did thirteen shows, or I did twelve and
Speaker 5: we're out. They didn't renew us. Thank god. It nearly
Speaker 5: killed me that that show nearly killed me too. I
Speaker 5: mean that with Dinosaurs nearly killed me because of the
Speaker 5: demands of the production. So where was I. I was
Speaker 5: over there, you know, dying after I came back and
Speaker 5: then did because Allen Myerson was on he directed most
Speaker 5: of the episodes.
Speaker 2: And yeah, he came back for he came in for
Speaker 2: fifth season and took over for the whole season.
Speaker 5: Yea anybody else And so Michael said, let's let's get
Speaker 5: this guy and here, he's a proven director, let's get
Speaker 5: him in here. So so then I, you know, I did, Uh.
Speaker 5: I came back after you wish was over, after I
Speaker 5: recovered and directed some some more boys, and then I
Speaker 5: was developing another feature film, and I was also I
Speaker 5: had we were you know, on other shows, and I
Speaker 5: came up with a pilot that then and Sue Page
Speaker 5: wrote called Zoe Bean and I was shepherding that and
Speaker 5: I shot the pilot of that and we were picked
Speaker 5: up for that.
Speaker 4: That became Zoe Duncan, Jack and Jane right exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: I was on that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you were, yeah, and and so yeah, it was
Speaker 5: like that thing of you know, I was just off
Speaker 5: doing other things with the company, you know, and and
Speaker 5: so and then also we wanted to give Steve Hayfer
Speaker 5: and my sister and and uh and every Kevin Tracy.
Speaker 5: Uh yeah, yeah, we would get we wanted to give
Speaker 5: them a chance to direct. So you know, there was
Speaker 5: a revolving. It became more of a revolving to Rusty
Speaker 5: was directing. I mean it was it was great. You know,
Speaker 5: everyone got to come in leving directed four.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, did we know at the end of
Speaker 1: season four that we were picked up for season five?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, okay we did.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh no, no, we were. We were a
Speaker 5: bona fide hit that point. I mean we were like
Speaker 5: we were, Yeah, we were. We were t g I
Speaker 5: F strong, you know. And then we put You Wish
Speaker 5: and everybody kept trying to tag a new show onto
Speaker 5: this evening and and and it.
Speaker 6: Just you know, teen Angel.
Speaker 2: It was it was magical stuff because because it was
Speaker 2: so that's why You Wish was created. It was like,
Speaker 2: let's try and yeah, all the other t j F
Speaker 2: shows had some magical character element, yeah, and.
Speaker 5: We had them. Was a was a great show as well.
Speaker 5: We had and that was with Connie ray And and
Speaker 5: that was fun.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I got to act on that show as well as
Speaker 5: as a Preacher. It was fun.
Speaker 2: But hey, Jeff, do you remember I have this memory
Speaker 2: that you were the one who helped Will pitch his
Speaker 2: movie idea for Winnie the Pooh to Disney? Am I
Speaker 2: remembering that correctly?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 5: I didn't do that. Oh you didn't, Okay, I didn't.
Speaker 2: And you don't remember who it was Will that.
Speaker 5: I thought.
Speaker 2: It was like during rehearsal, Will pitched this idea and
Speaker 2: you were like.
Speaker 5: You need to I remember that. Yeah, but I didn't.
Speaker 5: I didn't go into the room with the picture.
Speaker 2: No, No, I got him on the phone.
Speaker 4: You got him the meeting on the phone with somebody.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You were like at lunch like, no, no, you have
Speaker 2: to take this seriously, and you got somebody on the phone,
Speaker 2: and then Will got the pitch meeting and then remember that.
Speaker 5: I thought with him to pitch it. No, No, I
Speaker 5: remember that. Yeah I did.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, you were producing what was the movie?
Speaker 3: You were you were when you were going through you
Speaker 3: said you were you were creating it in their Films show.
Speaker 5: They gave me a deal there was a Paul up
Speaker 5: politics involved with show and post Quiz showed Jeffkatsburg owed
Speaker 5: me a film because I did him a favor on
Speaker 5: that film, and by you know, my credit, I was
Speaker 5: an actual producer on that and because I developed it
Speaker 5: and got the rights to it and everything else. And
Speaker 5: then Redford decided there were too many producers and asked
Speaker 5: me to take a co producer credit with with Dick
Speaker 5: Goodwin and with uh somebody else. Oh yeah, Gail Metrix.
Speaker 5: So we became co producers and I was the original producer,
Speaker 5: and then Michael Michael and I, you know. And then
Speaker 5: so when Redford said, you know there's too many producers,
Speaker 5: will Jeff take a co producer credit? When I went
Speaker 5: into you know, Katterbury said would you do this for me?
Speaker 5: I said, well, why should I do this? If I
Speaker 5: wins the Academy Award, I get an Academy Award, you
Speaker 5: know which I think it will. And he said, well,
Speaker 5: I know, I know you're the reason this is happening.
Speaker 5: You're the reason the movies here. You know, we owe you.
Speaker 5: I said, well, what do you owe me? He goes,
Speaker 5: well'll give you another film. I go, wait, another film? Anyway,
Speaker 5: if I come up with a good idea, he goes,
Speaker 5: but I will guarantee you to make it with you.
Speaker 5: So we we went ahead and I the next day
Speaker 5: he had he left Disney to go form DreamWorks. And yeah,
Speaker 5: so I got screwed. But anyway, but so they Anyway,
Speaker 5: I was developing this other film and it was a
Speaker 5: very It was a great film idea based on a
Speaker 5: true story of a black basketball player from the inner
Speaker 5: city of New York. It's true story that goes to
Speaker 5: live with the family in New Mexico and turns his
Speaker 5: life for him from being a you know, drug guy
Speaker 5: in the bad urban area to this white bread society
Speaker 5: in New Mexico and becomes an all star basketball player
Speaker 5: and college basketball player. And it's not kind of like Blindside, okay.
Speaker 5: And it was written by Takachi Buford. I'd hired him
Speaker 5: to write it, and it was it was really funny.
Speaker 5: As I outlined, we had a whole outline of the film.
Speaker 5: Michael loved it. We were ready to go because it's
Speaker 5: based on a true story. You better than the truth.
Speaker 5: So I hired takaishufor who wrote set it off. You
Speaker 5: ever see that film, it's of course Okay, So he uh,
Speaker 5: you know, was gangster, kind of black youngster, you know,
Speaker 5: film and stuff. But I thought it'd be a great
Speaker 5: sensibility to balance both the street kid as well as
Speaker 5: this this white bread society, you know, fish out of water.
Speaker 5: And so, uh, I got his first draft. You know,
Speaker 5: we went to meet New Mexico, we met the family,
Speaker 5: we met you know, everybody was wonderful. And then he
Speaker 5: turns in the first draft and he's got the gang
Speaker 5: coming from New York to New Mexico.
Speaker 2: Well entourage style, I would.
Speaker 5: He didn't want to write the white stuff. He didn't
Speaker 5: have no carite white Middle America. And he brought his
Speaker 5: gangsters into into New Mexico and it became a gangster film,
Speaker 5: and I just, dude, you know, so that it died
Speaker 5: at that.
Speaker 1: Well, wrapping up season four, looking back talking about all
Speaker 1: of these iconic moments and episodes, do you agree with
Speaker 1: us that season four is just the best. It's the best.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, it it delivers on all all cylinders, it
Speaker 5: really does.
Speaker 1: And that thanks to you, guys, and no, it's so
Speaker 1: much thanks to you.
Speaker 5: And you know, everybody know, everybody did.
Speaker 1: Everybody pulled their weight. But man, we just we wanted
Speaker 1: to give you your flowers for this season, especially because
Speaker 1: you're right that certainly seasons one through three really laid
Speaker 1: the groundwork so that by the time we get to
Speaker 1: season four we know and love these characters so well.
Speaker 1: There's a shorthand, and we could get away with so much.
Speaker 1: But the things we were able to accomplish in short
Speaker 1: amount of time, in a short amount of episodes, just
Speaker 1: it truly is remarkable, and it's it ought for us especially.
Speaker 1: It is it stems right back to you, So thank
Speaker 1: you so much as always for all of your time
Speaker 1: and effort with us, not only today, but for all
Speaker 1: of the years ago in the nineties and all the
Speaker 1: time since then. You've still been such a mainstay in
Speaker 1: our lives and we love you so much, and every
Speaker 1: time we get to spend with you, we just end
Speaker 1: up raving about it for weeks and months afterward, and
Speaker 1: we can't wait for the next time. So let's not
Speaker 1: let it be too long again before we see you
Speaker 1: face to face another hug in person. And also, we'd
Speaker 1: love to have you back for the episodes that you
Speaker 1: direct in season five, so we'll be talking to you
Speaker 1: again soon.
Speaker 5: He you guys, I love you so much.
Speaker 4: We love you, Thanks Jeff, thank you. Bye.
Speaker 1: What a guy? What a season? What a show? Just
Speaker 1: films fills me with all the warm fuzzies.
Speaker 4: Yep, yeah, it really does.
Speaker 3: It's I had a horrible realization last night as season
Speaker 3: four came to an end that someday this is gonna end. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and we're going to have to say goodbye to two
Speaker 3: shows together. And I don't think that hit me until
Speaker 3: last night, and then I realized that you guys are
Speaker 3: on Grom's World. You've done it three times, so it's like, damn, yeah, well.
Speaker 6: The three of us will always be able to get
Speaker 6: together well.
Speaker 1: Of course, and of course never say goodbye.
Speaker 4: We'll do other stuff. But it's like the show will end,
Speaker 4: and it's we're gonna have to end again.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't like it.
Speaker 1: I don't be Our love keeps the show alive, will it?
Speaker 5: It does?
Speaker 4: And streaming in the streaming streaming with no residual, with.
Speaker 3: Very little residual. I got one the other day for
Speaker 3: nine cents. I'm thinking, can kuon?
Speaker 2: But I don't know where I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1: Thank you all for listening to this episode of Pod
Speaker 1: Meets World as always. You can follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: pod Meets World Show. You can send us your emails
Speaker 1: pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com. And we've
Speaker 1: got merch.
Speaker 4: It's all downhill from here, Merch.
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be the downer you're on this podcast.
Speaker 3: I hope Season five is better than we think. See now,
Speaker 3: I've heard so many times that we have just hit
Speaker 3: our peak that I'm hoping that we're like, actually, this
Speaker 3: is not bad.
Speaker 4: That's what.
Speaker 2: There will always be moments. I think this is always
Speaker 2: going to be great moments. I think so too.
Speaker 3: I think so too.
Speaker 1: Pod Meets Worldshow dot com. We love you all, pod dismissed.
Speaker 1: Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted
Speaker 1: by Danielle Fischel Wilfredell and writer Strong Executive producers Jensen
Speaker 1: Karp and Amy Sugarman. Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo,
Speaker 1: producer and editor, Tara sudbachsch producer, Maddy Moore, engineer and
Speaker 1: Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song
Speaker 1: is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Pod Meets World Show or email us at Pod
Speaker 1: Meets World Show at gmail dot com.