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Speaker 1: The volume. The Colin Cowherd Podcast brought to you by

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Speaker 1: Fan Duel. It's never been easier to play fantasy on

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Speaker 1: Fan Duel. Whether you love basketball, golf, soccer, or any

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Speaker 1: fantasy sport, there is a contest for every fan. Fan

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Speaker 1: duel more ways to win. You have different addictions in

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Speaker 1: this country. Everybody's addicted to different things, phones, drugs, fatty foods,

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Speaker 1: or Netflix. There is one addiction we all have in common.

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Speaker 1: We're addicted to more. No matter how much we get

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Speaker 1: of anything, we demand a little extra sixteen regular season

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Speaker 1: NFL games. No. At another. From a business perspective, I

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Speaker 1: get the move. It makes business sense. However, in any business,

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Speaker 1: when you give people too much of a certain product,

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Speaker 1: you delude it. It becomes less special, less of an event.

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Speaker 1: This happened to Baseball. Ratings used to be huge. You'd

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Speaker 1: get a couple of games a week. Naturally, fans wanted more.

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Speaker 1: Oh good God, did baseball give it to them all?

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Speaker 1: One hundred and sixty two games of all the teams.

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Speaker 1: Now games are no longer special, especially if you're a

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Speaker 1: Pirates fan. Then it's never special. Do you know why

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Speaker 1: we now have sixty eight teams in March madness. It's

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Speaker 1: not because we demanded it. The ratings were better years ago.

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Speaker 1: It's because coaches wanted to be able to say to

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Speaker 1: their athletic directors, hey, I made the tournament. So it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a virtuous reason. It was just to keep seven

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Speaker 1: figure coaches from getting fired. How about college Bowl games?

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Speaker 1: I've got a general rule. When a credit union is

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Speaker 1: your sponsor, it's time to scale back. Not to say

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Speaker 1: I don't call mine on my rotary phone twice a week. Look,

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Speaker 1: I used to love a good superhero movie. I grew

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Speaker 1: up with Batman. I grew up with Superman, the First

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Speaker 1: Iron Man with Robert Downey Junior, an event. Now now

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Speaker 1: every movie feels like a superhero movie. We're running out

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Speaker 1: of superheroes on deck, super gluten free vegan man. I'm

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Speaker 1: told it's coming. It leads me back to the NFL.

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Speaker 1: I know that right now. Fans love it. But part

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Speaker 1: of why we love it is it's Sunday and Monday.

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Speaker 1: You add a few more games, every team gets one more.

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Speaker 1: It feels now limitless. I like dessert, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think I should eat ice cream every meal. There is

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Speaker 1: such a thing as too much more often becomes less.

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Speaker 1: I've seen it for forty years, except, of course, if

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Speaker 1: we're talking more terrific volume content, which leads me to

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Speaker 1: my first guest. So, as you know, I'm a Zag's homer,

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Speaker 1: Mark Fuz, a buddy of mine, close pri my clothes,

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Speaker 1: his friend in coaching, and so I had this really

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Speaker 1: really restless night's sleep. I'm like, USC is a bad matchup.

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Speaker 1: They're big, they're gonna make Timmy struggle, They're going to

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Speaker 1: slow it down. Andy Udfield's a good coach. And then

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Speaker 1: six minutes in, I'm like, oh, thank god. Not. Is

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Speaker 1: Gonzaga all hard or an easy team to bet on?

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Speaker 1: How do you view them easy? You know, every year

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Speaker 1: when the tournament comes around, as a person in the

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Speaker 1: betting space who was always trying to say, I found

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Speaker 1: the edge on this team, or you think about this

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Speaker 1: when you're betting on college basketball, or this is the

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Speaker 1: coach who everybody is afraid to play. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: Calvin Sampson is one of those coaches. Gonzaga is one

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Speaker 1: of those teams where the only way you looked smart

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Speaker 1: was by saying Gonzaga is amazing, Like there is no

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Speaker 1: trick to betting them. You just bet them. They were

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Speaker 1: dominant from the get go. They were dominant against good teams.

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Speaker 1: The idea that they weren't going to perform well in

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Speaker 1: the tournament because they were playing in a weaker conference

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Speaker 1: was completely out of sync with having seen them play,

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Speaker 1: understanding their program, believing that Mark Few has built something

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Speaker 1: over twenty years that is sustainable and now draws in

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Speaker 1: so many good athletes and so many good players that

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Speaker 1: they are really like interchangeable. Yeah, it's almost like when

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Speaker 1: Butler started getting NBA guys. Now, Gonzaga is always gotten

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Speaker 1: NBA guys, but they don't get the second or first

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Speaker 1: best NBA guys. And they added Jalen sugs It's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's like adding you know, Ohio State

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Speaker 1: gets Chase Young all the time. It would be like

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Speaker 1: giving it to Oregon somebody that's a good program. Am.

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Speaker 1: And I think Jalen Suggs is like this this protein blast.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he just makes them quicker and slicker. I

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Speaker 1: would probably bet Zag's minus fourteen against UCLA, who has

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Speaker 1: really one score. They would have been such an interesting team.

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Speaker 1: Had day Sean Knicks not gone to the G League,

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Speaker 1: then they'd be a fascinating team. I just I don't

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Speaker 1: think UCLA can keep up. That's kind of my take.

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Speaker 1: I agree, I think Gonzaga is the right play at

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Speaker 1: thirteen and a half at fourteen. Truth is, teams like Gonzaga,

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Speaker 1: when they make their run, they make their run covering big.

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Speaker 1: They don't have close games in the tournament. And we

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Speaker 1: think of March Madness as this like this extravaganza of

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Speaker 1: Cinderella's and this party of close games and Oral Roberts

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Speaker 1: upsets and Abilene Christian upsets. But the team that usually

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Speaker 1: wins ends up dominating in every single round, and Gonzaga

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Speaker 1: is that team. I think they're gonna play Baylor. I

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Speaker 1: think it's going to be an incredible game. I'm super

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Speaker 1: looking forward to it. Both of these teams, when you've

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Speaker 1: seen them play outclass their opponents. They have next level athletes,

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Speaker 1: they have next level systems, better shooters, better dribble drivers,

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Speaker 1: better passing in the interior of the paint, just really, really,

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Speaker 1: really great teams to watch, probably the most fun teams

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Speaker 1: to watch. There is a certain evil irony that John

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Speaker 1: Callapari was the leading candidate for the UCLA job. He

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Speaker 1: couldn't make the tournament with Kentucky and mccronan has turned

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Speaker 1: UCLA into this sort of mid major hard scrabble team

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Speaker 1: that has really one good player hustles. I mean, they

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Speaker 1: really do play like a mid major. They play they

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Speaker 1: don't play like a glamour program. They play like Cincinnati.

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Speaker 1: That's what they play like. And so you know it's funny.

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Speaker 1: Pete Carroll people rolled their eyes when he got the

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Speaker 1: USC job. People rolled or eyes at mccronin. He won't

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Speaker 1: fit in Los Angeles. But people forget Ben Holland, who

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Speaker 1: was without a personality, was actually very successful at UCLA

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Speaker 1: with glamour programs. Like I always thought, Lane Kiffin was

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Speaker 1: a dicey hire for USC. He was a glamor coach.

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Speaker 1: It was a glamor program. What you want to do

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Speaker 1: with the glamor programs is get a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a grinder because the program itself is glamorous. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like Calipari in Kentucky have underachieved. He's got one

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Speaker 1: title and he's been there a decade. Well here's what

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Speaker 1: I wonder. I wonder with the way college basketball is going,

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Speaker 1: and we've talked about this, it's not going to be

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Speaker 1: the same game over the next five years, then maybe

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Speaker 1: it was even the previous fifteen where you're getting these

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Speaker 1: superstar athletes who come even for a year to play

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Speaker 1: for a coach k or play for a coach cow

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Speaker 1: and then go on to the NBA because those kids

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Speaker 1: are going to get other opportunities, and so you're going

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Speaker 1: to get coaches who have to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: grind it out. And you're going to get coaches who,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you are seeing, these are the

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Speaker 1: best coaches. These are not the guys who all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden are recruiting the best athletes and then get

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Speaker 1: them get them to come play in a system. They

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Speaker 1: are incredible coachers. The guy at Loyola, the guy at Gonzaga,

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Speaker 1: the guy UCLA. Right, they are grinded out Kelvin Sampson,

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Speaker 1: what he has done. Grinded out coaches. Doesn't matter who

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Speaker 1: the athletes are. They create great teams. And that's going

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Speaker 1: to be what's interesting, even though you will still not

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Speaker 1: have a tournament or a sport that has marquee players

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Speaker 1: that people are dying to see. All right, Chad Baseball

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Speaker 1: Dodgers are current favorites at the National League at plus

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Speaker 1: three fifty Yankees plus five hundred American League I might

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Speaker 1: I have this feeling that I would bet the under

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Speaker 1: on win totals for all the good teams except maybe

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Speaker 1: the White Sox. And here's my theory is that the

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Speaker 1: NBA is finding this out. When you have a shortened season,

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Speaker 1: then you go into a regular season, you get more injuries. Now,

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Speaker 1: baseball has always been problematic in terms of arms and

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Speaker 1: picture injuries. So now you go from a very condensed

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Speaker 1: baseball season back to one hundred and sixty two games

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Speaker 1: and a lot of these pitchers are going to hit

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Speaker 1: a wall at about start eighteen nineteen. So I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of these Yankees are clearly the best offensive

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Speaker 1: team in the American League. Dodgers the best overall team

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Speaker 1: in the National League, and they know it. I do

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Speaker 1: think the Podres are talented and are but I think

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Speaker 1: this is the first time that the Podres have had

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Speaker 1: World Series discussion. That's a lot for San Diego. Dodgers

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Speaker 1: have been rolling with that for eight years. But I

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Speaker 1: think both the Dodgers and Yankees, I think the Dodgers

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Speaker 1: over unders like one oh five or something, saying yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's just about that high I'll look it up

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Speaker 1: for you right now, but it is maybe one oh

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Speaker 1: three and a half. One oh. It's insane number. So

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Speaker 1: I think what the Dodgers are going to figure out

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Speaker 1: is they're going to have to like slow play a

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Speaker 1: lot of the innings by the pitchers because you're going

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Speaker 1: from a you know, how how long was last year's

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Speaker 1: season very condensed into a one sixty And if you

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Speaker 1: look at the NBA, you've had so many injuries because

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Speaker 1: you had a shorter off season. So I think the

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Speaker 1: Yankees and Dodgers end up in the World Series. All

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Speaker 1: the White Sox pitching is great, better pen. But my

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Speaker 1: guess is that's my theory on baseball this year is

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Speaker 1: the good teams have risen far above the rest of

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Speaker 1: the other teams. They know it and are going to

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Speaker 1: slow roll a lot of these pictures. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I agree with you, all right, I actually I

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Speaker 1: think I think that the teams that are good are

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Speaker 1: going to be so dominant, and the challenge for a

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Speaker 1: team like the Dodgers is going to be the fact

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Speaker 1: that San Diego is also loaded and playing in the

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Speaker 1: same division. The challenge for a team like the Mets,

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Speaker 1: who are also pretty short odds to win the World

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Speaker 1: Series right now, if you look at it, it's Dodgers,

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Speaker 1: it's Yankee, it's Padres, it's White Socks, it's Mets, and

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Speaker 1: it's Braves. I think the challenge is going to be

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Speaker 1: the Mets have the Braves playing in their divisions. So

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Speaker 1: what you're going to see the challenge these win totals

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Speaker 1: isn't going to be whether or not as the pitchers.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be the teams that have the highest

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Speaker 1: win totals also happen to play in the hardest divisions.

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Speaker 1: So I think there's there's a stacking problem here and

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Speaker 1: that you can look at the NL Central it's terrible.

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Speaker 1: You got the Cardinals, you got the Brewers, you got

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Speaker 1: the Cubs. You know, those are teams that I think

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Speaker 1: are gonna have a hard time getting to ninety wins.

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Speaker 1: And everyone thinks the Cardinals are going to be amazing

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Speaker 1: because they picked up Nolan Arronado from the Rockies. But

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Speaker 1: the problem with that is he was injured a lot

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Speaker 1: of last year. He wasn't hitting very well. He came

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Speaker 1: into spring training, it still looks like he's not hitting

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Speaker 1: very well. So I am looking at teams like the Brewers,

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Speaker 1: who I think, do you have? They improve their defense

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Speaker 1: and there it has proven that when you improve your

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Speaker 1: defense as a baseball team, your win totals go up.

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Speaker 1: And that's what the Brewers did. So to me, I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at the Brewers to go over the win total.

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Speaker 1: And I'm also thinking, hey, the Brewers like plus two

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Speaker 1: sixty nine plus two seventy. I like them to win

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Speaker 1: their division over the Cardinals, who are about plus one ten.

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Speaker 1: Eronado is interesting because, like many Rocky players, he hit

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Speaker 1: way better at home in his career. Of course, but

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Speaker 1: here's what's interesting about baseball, And maybe this says more

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Speaker 1: about me as someone who is in the professional sports

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Speaker 1: coverage business. If you had said me two years ago

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Speaker 1: before Eronado got that massive contract, who's Nolan Eronado? No idea?

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Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden he's getting this massive contract,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, wait a second, this guy is the

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Speaker 1: best third basement in baseball. I've never heard of him.

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Speaker 1: He's playing for the Rockies. How is this a sport?

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Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Mike Trout. Mike Trout

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Speaker 1: had the tenth tenth highest jersey sales in Major League Baseball.

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Speaker 1: He is a once in a most generation player and

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Speaker 1: he did not even have like the top five jersey

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Speaker 1: sales in baseball. Well, it's I talked to cost Us

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Speaker 1: about this. Baseball has been very reluctant, very reticent to

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Speaker 1: embrace their young celebratory players. It's it's very you know,

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Speaker 1: it's very old school. And I think the NFL lightened

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Speaker 1: up several years ago with the celebrations and said, this

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Speaker 1: stuff plays on YouTube, it plays on Twitter, and they're funny.

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Speaker 1: NFL celebrations are actually clever and funny, especially when the

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Speaker 1: team comes out and they have like a skit for

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Speaker 1: like six seconds. Baseball it goes against you know. That's

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Speaker 1: why baseball struggles with young viewers and young listeners is

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Speaker 1: simply because these sports should be fun. When you start

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Speaker 1: taking yourself too seriously, I mean, I'm a sportscaster. I

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Speaker 1: love my life. I like sports. But if you give

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Speaker 1: me a night with my wife and the exception of

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Speaker 1: about twelve games a year in sports, it's rather go

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Speaker 1: out with and I'm a sportscaster and I love it.

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Speaker 1: You give me Ohio State, Michigan. There's a few college

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Speaker 1: football games, NFL games, world Series, NBA Finals. But baseball

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Speaker 1: should I mean just baseball as a general rule is

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Speaker 1: just too rigid lighting up. But what gets interesting now

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Speaker 1: is how can they handle players like Fernando Tatis right,

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Speaker 1: who was amazing last year and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: with really less than two years of service in baseball,

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Speaker 1: is getting a three hundred and fifty million dollars contract,

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Speaker 1: or a player like Juan Soto. All you've heard this

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Speaker 1: week is Juan Soto is playing at a level early

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Speaker 1: in his career that is on par with one player,

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Speaker 1: Ted Williams. If I heard more about Juan Soto as

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Speaker 1: the next Ten Williams this week, when I hadn't thought

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Speaker 1: about Juan Soto at all during last baseball season. But

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Speaker 1: as you get ready for the season, you do your research,

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Speaker 1: you start reading more. Everyone's saying Wuan Soto is the

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Speaker 1: next Ten Williams. That are those are like two guys

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Speaker 1: on opposite ends of the coasts who could be like

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Speaker 1: Mike Trout in that they are so good and they

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Speaker 1: are interesting and they are fun and they are young.

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Speaker 1: That's what could make baseball more interesting for more people.

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Speaker 1: By the way, NFL's the most bet sport, what second

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Speaker 1: most bet sport college football easily. Oh yeah, well, it

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Speaker 1: depends on It depends on how you frame it. Because

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Speaker 1: baseball and basketball get a lot of betting because of volume.

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Speaker 1: There are so many games, the seasons go on for

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Speaker 1: so long. But if you're talking about where is the

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Speaker 1: highest amount of handle going to come on these smallest

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Speaker 1: amount of games, where is the most excitement going to

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Speaker 1: be when are books making their money. It's football, It's NFL,

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Speaker 1: and it's college football. The difference is in Nevada, they

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Speaker 1: really don't break it down by this is the NFL handle,

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Speaker 1: this is the college football handle, this is the college

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Speaker 1: basketball handle. It's just football, baseball, basketball, hockey. You know

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Speaker 1: those hot take you post on social media, Well now

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Speaker 1: you can win up to five thousand dollars when you

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Speaker 1: new game called overunder, and it's absolutely free to play

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Speaker 1: on FanDuel. Here's how it works. FanDuel will set lines

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Speaker 1: on things like total points or three pointers made during

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Speaker 1: every NBA on TNT broadcast. All you have to do

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Speaker 1: is pick over or under for every problem. Your picks

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Speaker 1: could win you a share of five thousand dollars during

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Speaker 1: FanDuel dot com slash over under and sign up now.

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Speaker 1: takes less than two minutes to sign up. Then put

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Speaker 1: your takes to the test during every NBA on TNT

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Speaker 1: broadcast at FanDuel dot com slash over under. They could

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Speaker 1: restrictions apply. Seefanduel dot com for terms and conditions. In basketball,

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Speaker 1: it did LaMarcus Aldridge to the Nets, or Aaron Gordon

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Speaker 1: to Denver, or Andre Drama to the Lakers move the

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Speaker 1: Needland betting at all. Well, yeah, because the Nets all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden became the odds on favorites to win

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Speaker 1: the NBA title. That one move is what moved it.

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Speaker 1: That was it. It was Aldridge signing with the Nets,

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Speaker 1: and we wrote about it, and I remember tweeting, this

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Speaker 1: is what moves the number one guy who hasn't been playing,

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Speaker 1: who's five years passed his prime. But it did, and

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Speaker 1: that's all based on public perception. The Nets already have hardened.

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Speaker 1: They already have KD, they already have Kyrie. Now they're

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Speaker 1: adding another piece. This makes them more interesting. The public

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Speaker 1: is going to come in and bet on the Nets

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden. Bookmakers have to adjust the numbers

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Speaker 1: so they're not so they're not vulnerable. Yeah, you know

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Speaker 1: the NBA, because you have a seven game series, there's

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Speaker 1: just not many dark horse teams. I do think if

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Speaker 1: Lebron's injury was more serious than anybody is letting on,

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Speaker 1: I think Denver is good enough to beat them with

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Speaker 1: an injured Lebron. But if he's healthy, they'll win. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's March madness. You do get these oral Robert stories. NFL.

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Speaker 1: You know you have one big mistake in the first half.

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Speaker 1: You fall behind your Lamar Jackson. You're not the same quarterback.

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Speaker 1: And this is not a shot at the NBA. I

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Speaker 1: love watching the NBA. I thought I thought LaMarcus all

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Speaker 1: Ridge to the Nets. My takeaway was, oh crap, because

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Speaker 1: he's a smart player. He doesn't want to be a star.

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Speaker 1: He I mean, Carmelo Anthony helped the Blazers and who

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Speaker 1: he lacks self awareness. LaMarcus all Ridge does not. He

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Speaker 1: just came in and said, you'll just do whatever it

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Speaker 1: takes to win. And I'm like, he's a fourteen fifteen

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Speaker 1: point a game guy, Like I look at that and

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Speaker 1: I think they're gonna mow through the East. I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I honestly, I don't think Philadelphia matches up with him.

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Speaker 1: I think they'll mow through it. Yeah, I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: I watched the Nets game last night against the Rockets,

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Speaker 1: and obviously it's the Rockets, so it's not as if

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Speaker 1: this is even a competitive NBA team. But James Harden

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Speaker 1: goes down early in the first half, so it's just

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Speaker 1: Kyrie and some other players. Joe Harris went off for

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Speaker 1: twenty eight points and twenty in the second half last night,

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Speaker 1: and this was a team that was losing by seven

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Speaker 1: points in the fourth quarter, and by the end of

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Speaker 1: the game they were up one twenty to one oh five.

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Speaker 1: And the only way the Rockets covered the twelve and

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Speaker 1: a half point spread is because they had a dozen't

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Speaker 1: matter three pointer on the last shot of the game.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise they lose a game they were winning by seven

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Speaker 1: in the fourth quarter by fifteen points the Nets when

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Speaker 1: they feel like doing it, even with their second team,

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Speaker 1: if they have Kyrie, now imagine if they had LaMarcus

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Speaker 1: Aldres Like, they are just going to be really a

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Speaker 1: challenging team. And what gets interesting for the Lakers is

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Speaker 1: can they be able to turn it on. You could

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Speaker 1: turn it on against the Heat, who I think we're

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Speaker 1: an amazing team and had a great run. They are

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Speaker 1: not James Harden, They're not Kyrie, They're not KD and

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Speaker 1: that is a different level of talent that is harder

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Speaker 1: to turn down again, again and again and again. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think Andre Drummond to the Lakers gets them through Denver.

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Speaker 1: But he's a bad match up against Brooklyn because he's

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Speaker 1: got a Tristan Thompson field, which is, oh, who do

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Speaker 1: we put him on? And he's not a three point threat.

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Speaker 1: So Drummond's a great He secures the Lakers if Lebron's healthy,

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Speaker 1: he secures a trip to the finals. But you can't

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Speaker 1: have him on the floor against Brooklyn. He'll be a problem.

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Speaker 1: You keep leaving out Utah. They don't have a defender.

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Speaker 1: This is their big liability. Aaron Gordon's such a get

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Speaker 1: for Denver because he matches up physically with Lebron. But

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Speaker 1: Portland doesn't really have. Utah doesn't really have somebody that

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Speaker 1: matches up physically with Lebron. The Clippers do Kawhi and

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Speaker 1: Paul George and now Aaron Gordon, and so I think

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Speaker 1: the Clippers and Denver are the better man matchups. That's

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Speaker 1: been Portland's issue. CJ. McCullough is essentially Damian little light

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Speaker 1: and they have good bigs and a great backcourt, and

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Speaker 1: they're really mediocre and unathletic on the wings, and it's

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Speaker 1: just their limitation. They look so small last year against

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Speaker 1: Lebron and a D they look so tiny. And when

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Speaker 1: you're a small team, the longer you go in the playoffs,

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Speaker 1: the more dinged up you get. And Portland was just

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Speaker 1: hobbled by that Lakers series. And I think the Lakers

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Speaker 1: have size Drummonds, an extra big body. He can play

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Speaker 1: the five, eighty goes to the four. I think they're

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Speaker 1: a really tough matchup. I love Utah, but I don't

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Speaker 1: like how they match up. There was a graphic the

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Speaker 1: other day that showed the wingspan of six, seven eight

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Speaker 1: players on the Lakers, and they all had wingspans of

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Speaker 1: seven feet or more. Andre Drummond, Lebron, Kyle Kuzma, Anthony Davis,

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Speaker 1: you name it. And it was just arms like Tera dactyls.

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Speaker 1: And it was amazing to think about how anybody will

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Speaker 1: try to get the ball through a passing lane against

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Speaker 1: this team on the wing. Well, and also Frank Vogel's history,

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Speaker 1: he's great with big So Roy Hibbert was a marginal

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Speaker 1: college player, and he made Roy Hibbert into a problem

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Speaker 1: for Lebron, James and Bosch and Wade in that Miami

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Speaker 1: Heat team. They were a real problem. So he's great

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Speaker 1: with Drummond. I mean, Anthony Davis had his best month

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Speaker 1: as a pro with Frank Vogel. Andre Drummond will now

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Speaker 1: get Vogel's coaching, So Montrez Harold, there's you know, it's

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Speaker 1: funny D'Antoni. Mike D'Antoni hates Biggs, loves guards. Vogel's the opposite.

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Speaker 1: He's not flashy. But there'll be a very physical team.

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Speaker 1: Nobody in the West except maybe the Clippers will match

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Speaker 1: up particularly well in Denver. And I you know sometimes

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Speaker 1: you know they always say this in football, it's about

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Speaker 1: winning your conference, but it does feel in Lebron's case,

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Speaker 1: it's fairly hollow if they get to the finals and

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Speaker 1: lose because his legacy is so tied to it. But

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Speaker 1: I don't see anybody I will say this maybe as

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Speaker 1: interesting as Skim Milk. I mean, there's not much there,

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Speaker 1: but god, he is a great basketball player. He's the

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Speaker 1: best passing big since Arvitas Sabonis. He's in the Bill

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Speaker 1: Walton class, shoots threes. He's just an unbelievable player. If

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Speaker 1: you put him in any big basketball market, he'd explode. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's really fun to watch him. It's fun to watch

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Speaker 1: Jamal Murray. That's what's gonna make the Nuggets so interesting

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Speaker 1: with Aaron Gordon. I remember last year during the bubble

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Speaker 1: loving watching this team. And we saw it during the

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Speaker 1: playoffs against the Jazz when Jamal Murray and Dinovan Mitchell

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Speaker 1: were going against each other. It was high energy, pure

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Speaker 1: brilliant basketball on every single play where you're just, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I can't believe he did that. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe they do that. And he at the

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Speaker 1: centerpiece of all that. You know, people get on Jamal

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Speaker 1: Murray because he's a point guard whose assist totals are

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Speaker 1: never very high, but he's playing with a guy who

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Speaker 1: might be one of the best playmakers of his generation.

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Speaker 1: He's a point center. He's a point center, and that

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Speaker 1: really is You do have to go back to Bill

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Speaker 1: Walton at UCLA and Bill Walton in Portland forty year,

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Speaker 1: forty five years ago. Honestly, I can't think of anyone

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Speaker 1: in that generation who played the game the same way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's great. By the way, are there are there sports

424
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: handicappers who only bet the NBA? Oh yeah, think about

425
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 1: Bob vulgaris Remember Bob vulgaris Harala. Bob vulgaris one of

426
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: the biggest betters who's ever bet ever, and he revolutionized

427
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: betting on totals. And we did a story about a

428
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: minisp in the magazine I don't know, six seven, eight,

429
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: nine years ago, and he was betting on totals, beating

430
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: the market, beating first half totals, beating second half total

431
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: sports books adjusted. He completely broke down his system, hired

432
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: a kid to work with him on an algorithm, studied

433
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: the game, broke it down point by point, was analyzing

434
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: how much a guy is worth against how much one

435
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: free throw is worth. From a guy versus another and

436
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: really thinking about the game point by point analysis built

437
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: a new system, started to dominate the market, made a

438
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: freakload of money, and then got hired by the MAVs.

439
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: Is like a director of analytics. Seriously, Mark Huban hired him.

440
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,959
Speaker 1: And by the way, at that point, he didn't need

441
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: the money. He was making so much money. And he

442
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: also got big into crypto, and so he was making

443
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: so much money. He does this because he loves basketball

444
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: and has a great opportunity to sort of do what

445
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: he was doing at the highest level with the greatest

446
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 1: amount of recognition. Wow, that's a good story. Yeah, you've

447
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: been hiding that one. That's a good story. I like

448
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 1: that story. Listen. I want to bring magic time I'm

449
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 1: on the show. I can't tell you everything I know

450
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 1: every time we chat on or off the air. Yeah,

451
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: I tell my wife that all the time. But I'm

452
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: out of magic. We're ten years in. I'm out of magic, dude.

453
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to hit doubles. Ten years in? What

454
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: am i I'm I'm twenty three and a half years in.

455
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: I don't know how you do it. We don't talk

456
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: about that at that point. You're just trying to get

457
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: on base. Who cares up it to walk? We're not

458
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: even talking anymore. It's she doesn't know where I am.

459
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: I just come into my office. I don't leave my office.

460
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: It's really it's never been better. All right, Chad Milman

461
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: could see Anyboddy, I brother, I'll see you later. Alex

462
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: Hanold is not just a rock climber. He's the world's

463
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: most fearless rock climber. He's the star of the Oscar

464
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: winning documentary Free Solo. It chronicles how he became the

465
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: first person ever to climb El Capitan at Yosemite National Park.

466
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: That was three four years ago. Season one of his

467
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: new podcast, Climbing Goal, he and his co host share

468
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: stories from the people who define the sport, push the boundaries.

469
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: If you've not seen the sixty minutes piece, you'll get

470
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: anxiety watching it. If you've not gone to his Instagram,

471
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: you'll get anxiety just watching it. And we welcome Alex in.

472
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. Alex. My wife believes in reincarnation,

473
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: and she's very spiritual and believes you don't die, you

474
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: just go to a different realm, and so therefore she

475
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: does not have a fear of death. I do. I

476
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: get nervous merging into traffic. She does not. And as

477
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: I watch you climb, I do wonder if there's a

478
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: certain spirituality with you that changes or eradicates your fear.

479
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: You clearly have no fear. You couldn't do this. Are

480
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: you a spiritual person? Is that part of sort of

481
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: your drive and your ability to focus in on these

482
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: tasks that other human beings get anxiety simply watching your

483
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: Instagram clips? No, so I'm very much an atheist. I

484
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 1: would not characterize myself as spiritual anyway. And the thing is,

485
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm as afraid of death as anybody else,

486
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: But to me, the benefits of climbing sort of the

487
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: beauty of the experience is worth the risk, basically, and

488
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: basically the whole challenge of freeling the type of climbing

489
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: that I do sometimes is to mitigate that risk in

490
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: a way that you know, I feel comfortable that I

491
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: don't feel afraid that it's you know, that it doesn't

492
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: seem scary because I'm confident that I won't fall off.

493
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: I mean, basically, it's all about finding the confidence to

494
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: know that you can do something without it being dangerous.

495
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: When did you first grasp that your goal? But you

496
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: started climbing at five. Was there a time when you

497
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: gained that confidence like a young basketball player finally knows

498
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: he's gonna hit the free throw. When's the moment for you?

499
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: Were you sense that I got this, this is what

500
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: I do. I'm really special at this. No. But the

501
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: thing about climbing is that every rock is different. I mean,

502
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: it sounds stupid, but every rock is different, every mountain

503
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: is different. So you never have a moment where you

504
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: know I've got this because it's not like a free throw.

505
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: It's not like a replicable action that you do every

506
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: single day, day in and day. I think about climbing

507
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: is and also the weather changes every day. Conditions change,

508
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: like your skin change is like basically it always feels

509
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: a little bit different. So even when you build confidence,

510
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: build skills, you know, as your abilities increase, you may

511
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: feel better for secret objectives, but for other objectives and

512
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: you're like, ooh, I don't know, you know, so like

513
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,239
Speaker 1: something like free selling out Cap. You know, if you've

514
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: seen the film Free Sol Like course, yeah, I climbed

515
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: out Cap. Felt great when I did it, But if

516
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: I went there right now, and looked up at the

517
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: wall and be like, oh, that looks pretty scary. I think.

518
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,719
Speaker 1: You know, I'm arguably a better, more experienced climber now

519
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: than I was a couple of years ago. You know,

520
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: I've been like training NonStop since then as well. But

521
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: the thing is, I'm not current for that specific route.

522
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: You know, I don't remember every single move, but I don't.

523
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: I mean I remember a lot of it. And if

524
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: I was forced to free solo like, I'd probably be fine,

525
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: but it'd be very scary, you know, I'd be like, oh, geez,

526
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: you know, I haven't been practicing for the last last

527
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: two years, so it'd be pretty fun. The focus it

528
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: would take to do something like that, I would imagine.

529
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: You can't daydream that you have to be so hyper

530
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: focused throughout this, which, by the way, that in itself

531
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: is a remarkable skill. Yeah, that's definitely true. For the

532
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: high end, very difficult free soling, so on something like

533
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: el Cap, probably a third of the face is incredibly difficult,

534
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: and I had to stay hyper focused, like you're describing.

535
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: But for the easier sections, I very much can look around,

536
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: enjoy the view, appreciate the position, like kind of like, um,

537
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: I mean I would imagine in other sports, like if

538
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: in basketball or something, it's like running down the court

539
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: sort of unopposed, you know, like I don't know, like

540
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: they get a steal or something, there's nobody behind them.

541
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: They can kind of like trot and then then sort

542
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: of like do a nice showy dunk or something because

543
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: they're like, this is fun. I'm having a nice time,

544
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: you know, Whereas if there are tons of defenders in

545
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: there and it's like super intense, then they I'm sure

546
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: they have to fully focus. And it's kind of like

547
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: that where you know, for the very difficult situations, I

548
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: have to focus. But not every situation on a rock

549
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: face is physical limit. You know. Some of it is

550
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: actually easy terrain, like walking across little ledges or like

551
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: going up sort of easy cracks, And those are the

552
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: times where I can appreciate the whole thing, you know,

553
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: because at some point it has to be enjoyable as well,

554
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: you know, you have to have moments of your fun

555
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: or else at the point. Yeah, the training, you know,

556
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: I think about stuff that a viewer of this would

557
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: think about. I have no rock climbing experience, although I

558
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: have two kids who enjoy it. That the idea of

559
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: being hydrated but not full it being hydrated. I mean

560
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: you are on the side of a wall and the

561
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: sun is beaming on you, so you could get things

562
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: like sunburn, you could get d hydrated. Yeah. Actually, so

563
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: generally you try to avoid the sun as much as possible,

564
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: and that was a big part of the challenge with

565
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: freesalling a cap was to time my ascent in the

566
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: right way so that the sun wouldn't be on me

567
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: for anything difficult, but it also wouldn't be too cold

568
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: or dark, you know, because you're trying to time the

569
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: sunrise with when the sun actually hits that part of

570
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: the wall. I don't know. I mean, if you watch

571
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: the film, I have a failed attempt on the climb

572
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: in late fall of one year, and at that time

573
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: of year, because of the timing, E meant that I

574
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: had to start in the dark in order to get

575
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: to the hard parts before the sun and hit them.

576
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: But then when I successfully did the climb, I was

577
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: able to start at sunrise and still have enough of

578
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: the margin. Basically because the way the sun rises and

579
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: you know the amount of sunshade where the sun is

580
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: in the sky, I mean that's the kind of stuff

581
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: that is a climber. You're constantly thinking about the weather,

582
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: the sun, the conditions. You know, today there was like

583
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: a cold north wind, so we kind of had to

584
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: choose an area that would be sheltered from the wind

585
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: but in the sun. And I think about climbing is

586
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: you're always at the mercy of the elements that you're

587
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: constantly trying to manage that as much as possible. Do

588
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: you have a pre climber chool No, not, I mean shoes, harness,

589
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: chok bag. You know, you just think do you have

590
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: the things you need? You have the shoes on, you

591
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: got your harness on, you got a chok bag, you

592
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: double check you're not you know, things like that. They're

593
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: the basic safety checks. But um, but I don't have

594
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: any particular ritual to it. I just I just climb.

595
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: Are there days for you, Um, you don't drink alcohol. Um,

596
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: that's you're a vegetarian, you had a very clean diet.

597
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: But are there days, Alex for you that you feel like,

598
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: just at a DNA level, this is a good rock

599
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: climbing day for me. I'm in the right space. I

600
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: feel great. Yeah, I kind of. I mean, you definitely

601
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: have days where you're like, I'm peeking, like I feel strong,

602
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: I feel capable. I mean, that's that's definitely a thing sometimes.

603
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: I mean, actually, just the other day, I had a

604
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: day where I was like, man, I feel really strong

605
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: and I'm not really sure why. And you know, it's

606
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: not like but some days. It's like if you devote

607
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: yourself to something day in and day out for for

608
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: years at a time, every once in a while, you're

609
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: gonna have days they're sort of unexceptionally good in addition

610
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: to the day that are acceptually bad, because you obviously

611
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: have days where you're like, oh, I'm so weak and

612
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: I just can't you know, perform that I wanted. You

613
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: obviously started at a young age, you call you're a

614
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: little bit of a loaner, as the documentary showed, and

615
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: you probably found a group of kids eventually at some

616
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: age that you climbed with. And these are fearless people.

617
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: Was there a moment, an epiphany or a climb for you,

618
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: Alex when you felt, even among other fearless climbers, you

619
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: felt like the Steven Steve Prefontaine had this how much

620
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: pain can I endure? He always felt I can simply

621
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: endure more pain than other great runners. Was there a

622
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: moment for you among other young climbers like you felt

623
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: like I think I can get to different places than

624
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: other people. Not exactly, I mean, it's interesting because actually,

625
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 1: so when you're climbing with other people, you're mostly focused

626
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: on physical difficulty. So like when I'm climbing with friends

627
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: at the gym, works a physical limits, and when you

628
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: look at physical limits like that, I'm actually not any

629
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: better than most of my friends, like I mean, and

630
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: most of my other friends of professional primbers, and for

631
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: the most part, they're stronger than me in most measures

632
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: of pure strength. But the thing that I have this

633
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: sort of the psychological and really what I have is

634
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: like the desire to go on big adventures and to

635
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: sort of push myself in the mountains. And so in

636
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: some ways when I'm with friends, I'm always kind of

637
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: the one that's like, oh, I'm not really quite as

638
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: good as them. But it's kind of when I buy

639
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: myself that I shine, you know, when I get into

640
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: the situation where I'm like, oh, I'm uniquely good at

641
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: things that I do by myself help. So I never

642
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 1: really had a moment where I was like, oh, I'm

643
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: like better than my friends in some way. It was

644
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: more like every I would consistently go adventuring by myself

645
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: and get into these situations where I'm like, oh, what

646
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: a crazy adventure. I just did something kind of red

647
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: and then tell people about it later. Then they're like whoa,

648
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: Like what do you do? And then that sort of

649
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: became you know, then you're like, oh, I guess I'm

650
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: doing things that other people don't like to do, and

651
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: then sort of became a thing. You lived in a

652
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: van for sometime, and you were remarked it wasn't a

653
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: particularly you know, you'd prefer not to live in it,

654
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: but you just had such love for the outdoors. When

655
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: you're in that space where you're now you're married, I

656
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: just read, and you're in a different space now. But

657
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: when you were in that very isolated space, was it

658
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: an advantage or disadvantage the married climber with a living

659
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: in the van climber, how do you view that? I mean,

660
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: they each have their their benefits, for sure. I mean

661
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: the thing about being the van climber with like no relationships,

662
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: no serious attachments, it's just that you're so hyper focused

663
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: on the task at hand. You can just you can

664
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: think about only non stop all day every day and

665
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: really like working on projects. On the other hand, you know,

666
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: the situation I mean now with the house and a wife.

667
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's like a little bit more overhead, like

668
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: more demandeds for my time. But it's also a slightly

669
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: more sustainable long term situation. You know. It's like, uh,

670
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: you know, I have access to a shower, I have,

671
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: you know, like I get body work down every once

672
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: in a while. Because I live in a town. You know,

673
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: like basically there's more like long term I also I

674
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: eat better food, you know, so in terms of like

675
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: overall health, it's probably better off living living in town. Actually,

676
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: I read you started your career in Las Vegas. I'm like,

677
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm living here in Vegas. It's like, oh that's cool. Wow,

678
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: now that now, Now there's some interesting climbs at Mount Charleston, which,

679
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: by the way, I'm the only person in the world

680
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 1: that learned to ski in Las Vegas. I actually did.

681
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: A girl asked me out, Alex on a day, you

682
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: want to go skiing? And I'm like, yeah, I didn't

683
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: know how to ski. So I went to Mount Charleston

684
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: three days in a row. Black and Blue, and then

685
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: I went to Brian head utah Ski and we dated

686
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: for seven years. So I was got a little bit

687
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: of a con man. But you know, when I think

688
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 1: of you know, in an interesting way, you scale the

689
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: there's architectural scaling. There's there's people that go on windows

690
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,720
Speaker 1: in New York and Las Vegas and casinos and clean windows.

691
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: That is obviously ropes and it's easier what you do.

692
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: To me, I can't imagine it. I can't wrap my

693
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: brain around it. Have you ever when you watch Free Solo,

694
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: when you watch your projects, is it a little bit

695
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: of an outer body experience where you're like, oh my god,

696
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: this is inverted? This is crazy. Because I was watching

697
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: some of your stuff today and I'm like, does he

698
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: watch this? Does he ever look back and watch his

699
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: own action? I've you know, obviously, I've seen Free Solo

700
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: many times throughout the movie tour, and when I watch it,

701
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: I think I see different things. You know, I don't

702
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: really see the climbing is like, oh, this is a

703
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 1: crazy I see it as like look at the scenery

704
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: or like look at that pitch, Like that section of climbing,

705
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, what a beautiful I mean because really one

706
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: of my you know, I didn't really have any particular

707
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: goals going into the film, but one thing that I

708
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: did want was that El Cap. I wanted El Cap

709
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: to be well portrayed, you know, like because it is

710
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: really one of the most important walls in the world

711
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: for climbers, and I wanted that to really show through

712
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: in the film. And so when I watched the film,

713
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, look at that beautiful wall, Like what a

714
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: magnificent piece of rock. Like the cinematography is incredible, and

715
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: I just see it. I'm like, that does justice to

716
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: one of the most iconic climbing you know, walls in

717
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,439
Speaker 1: the world. And so, you know, I kind of see

718
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 1: that side of it more. I was like, this is beautiful,

719
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: Like what an inspiring place, you know. To me, the

720
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: climbing is kind of normal because I mean, thinking about

721
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: the climbing is more intense than watching it, you know

722
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like I remember doing it all. It's

723
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: like that's obviously more of an experience than watching the film.

724
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: Go to the most intense moment of your climb at

725
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: Yosemite eight ten twelve minute moment Take me to that

726
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: space where fears not the right word but the intensity

727
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,959
Speaker 1: of that moment. I mean, so if you've seen the film,

728
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: so the most intensive of the whole climb was definitely

729
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: the Bowlder problem, which is like has the karate kick

730
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: the whole It's it's the physically most challenging section of

731
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: the whole route. And it's interesting because in some ways

732
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: that was also the least dramatic section of the whole

733
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: climb for me, because it was like so hardcore in

734
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: a way that I just had to be completely on auto,

735
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: like there was no thinking at all around. I basically

736
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: climbed up to the base of it. There's a little

737
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: tiny pedestal sort of like the size of a desk

738
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 1: underneath it, and I sat on the pedestal. I popped

739
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: my shoes up for a second it which is totally normal.

740
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: I like relaxed my toes, popped my shoes back on, tight,

741
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: my shoes up tighter. I probably peeed off the ledge,

742
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: but I don't remember. But it's pretty normal to like

743
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: shed weight, you know, before the hard part, and then

744
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: you know, chalk up, look at it, and then just

745
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: do it. And I remember basically going through the whole

746
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: that whole process without even a single thought of like

747
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: what am I doing up here? Should I be doing this?

748
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: Like basically I thought through all those kinds of questions

749
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: so much ahead of time that that when I got there,

750
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: I could just like my brain is completely empty, you know,

751
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: I just did the climb. And then you see in

752
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: the film when I stick the finishing hole, like the

753
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 1: really big hole in the corner, look at the camera

754
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: and like, oh yeah, actually I said no, I say,

755
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: can I say the ord? Obviously? Yeah yeah. But then

756
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: in the film, you know, because of like film ratings,

757
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: I had to sort of dub it with like, oh yeah,

758
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: but you know whatever, But but yeah, I mean it's

759
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: interesting because it was a complete autopilot right up until

760
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: I grab the finishing hole, And as soon as I

761
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: grabbed that, it's like my whole body relaxes and I'm like,

762
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 1: I know that I have it. It's done. It's easy.

763
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: And so then it's like then I can relax and

764
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: appreciate where I am again and be like to look

765
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: at this, this is crazy, you know, and start like

766
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: laughing and joking again and like having a good time.

767
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: But there's like a really start contrast between being on

768
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: complete autopilot and then as soon as I can relax

769
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: me and it's like, oh, you know, out of autopilot. Yeah,

770
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 1: I mean after a huge climb, not just the physical toll,

771
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 1: but kind of the mental intensity is two or three

772
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: days after a climb like that. I mean, does your

773
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: body feel different? You are? You are you literally physically

774
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: sort I mean the intensity, the shoulders, the back, the focus. Yeah.

775
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting though. I mean that is literally

776
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: what I've been training for for years, so it's like,

777
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 1: you know, I am conditioned for that. But it's funny

778
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 1: you say that because when I free sell it all cap.

779
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: When I did it, I was so euphoric. I felt

780
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: so good. I was like, I feel incredible. I was

781
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: like I could do this again right now, Like I

782
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: feel great, and then I ran down. We did some

783
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: filming along the way, obviously, like I made some phone

784
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: calls and we checked in. They didn't interview with me

785
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: afterward obviously for the film. And then that afternoon I

786
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: did like a HangBoard like a training session like I

787
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: had been doing every other day, because I was like, oh,

788
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, I might as well stick to my program

789
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,240
Speaker 1: because it's been working. I feel really strong. I should

790
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: like stick with my training and that afternoon when I trained,

791
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: I objectively was not very strong, like basically I didn't

792
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: really hit my numbers, you know, And I was like, oh, clearly,

793
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: I'm much more fatigued from having climbocap this morning, you know,

794
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: because like you're in such a boisterous mood You're like

795
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: I could do anything, and then you start actually trying

796
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: to train and you're like, well, it turns out I

797
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 1: can't do anything right now, Like turns out yea. So

798
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: is there any downside to the documentary which was wildly successful.

799
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: It's one of the two or three you know, it's funny.

800
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,919
Speaker 1: It's one of two or three great documentaries I've ever seen.

801
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: One of the other ones I absolutely love is the

802
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 1: story of the Frenchman who climbed between the towers in

803
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: New York. You've seen that, yeah, of course, Man on Wire.

804
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I watched that before i'd free

805
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: sol it olcap. And when I watched that, I was like,

806
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,720
Speaker 1: this is my this is my my World Trade Center. Basically,

807
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: I was like, this is my dream. Like it was

808
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 1: I saw so much of my because I've been already

809
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: thinking about Alcap for you know, seven years or something

810
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: when I saw that film, and the film was so

811
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: beautiful and like, and his dream was so beautiful, and

812
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: he expressed his desire for it and such. He just

813
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,240
Speaker 1: has such passion for something that really makes no sense

814
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: to any normal person, right, And you know, obviously I

815
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: I did that a little bit because I was like, oh, yeah,

816
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 1: I've got this like crazy dream that even my friends

817
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: think it's totally stupid and doesn't really make sense. But

818
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: I'm like so into it, you know. Yeah, I love

819
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 1: that film. Yeah, I think it's just I think it's

820
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: I've watched it through. I've watched both of yours and

821
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: his multiple times. And um, is there a downside to

822
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,439
Speaker 1: now being famous? It is there part of your life

823
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: you'll never get back. Well, yeah, losing the enmity, hunanimity.

824
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: Um yeah, you're like today, like I was saying, I

825
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: just came from climbing outside, and like the various other

826
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: groups of hikers and climbers that we passed are all like, whoa,

827
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? What are you up to do?

828
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm kind of like I live here,

829
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: you know, Like I'm just out with my family, like

830
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: a normal day in the canyons, you know, So like

831
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 1: using that sense of of of yeah, sure, it's hard

832
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: to say that, and then it is in in in

833
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 1: the outdoors. I mean, I don't know, but overall, I

834
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: mean the positives far outweigh that, I think because, um, like,

835
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: I have a foundation that supports solo projects around the world,

836
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: and that work has just totally blown up since the film.

837
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: We've been like this last year, We've given over a

838
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: million dollars of different projects around the world. And that's

839
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: basically like because of the visibility from the film. Um,

840
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: and you know, and it's just it's nice to be

841
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: able to make a living as a climber, you know.

842
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: It's just it's pretty incredible to be able to do

843
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: something that you love to do and make a living

844
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: from it. And I'm totally into that. I Mean, there's

845
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: obviously you're you're inspiring a lot of young kids. I mean,

846
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: there's there's clearly they look up to you. Um, will

847
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: there be a point? Is there in free soloing? Is

848
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: there a burnout level? Is there an age level? Your

849
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: mother's older, she's still a climber. But but do you

850
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: envision Alex a moment where you won't want the intensity?

851
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: Perhaps you have kids, I mean, do you sense that

852
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: is part of this book. Yeah. I don't know if

853
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 1: there will be a moment where I just suddenly flip

854
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: the switch, but I do I imagine sort of a

855
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: gradual diminishing of the intensity, you know, because I always

856
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: love to solo and I always love to scramble in

857
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 1: the mountains. But at some point I won't want to

858
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: do very hard scrambles, you know. I won't want to

859
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: do like the really intense free solo. I'll just be

860
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: doing the kind of casual stuff. I imagine. I don't

861
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: know what I mean, And in some ways, I just

862
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 1: I might eventually lose the hunger for like constantly pushing

863
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: myself because even even now, you know, I'm like, it

864
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: is sometimes a bit of a grind to just like

865
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: think up hard challenges and be like can I do this,

866
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:52,959
Speaker 1: and then basically whip yourself into shape until you managed

867
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:54,879
Speaker 1: to do this, and then think of an even harder

868
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: challenge and do that, and you're sort of like, oh,

869
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: it does be a little bit like a treadmill, where

870
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: like the fastest the treadmill, and you're like, you know, yeah,

871
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: like right now I'm kind of working on this project

872
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: in Red Rock you know outside of Vegas. Yeah, actually,

873
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: well you might be able to appreciate this. I'm I'm

874
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: sort of working on a traverse of the entire range,

875
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: so basically like up and over every peak down the

876
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 1: entire Red Rock Range, but tagging all the climbing, like

877
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: basically tagging all the summits, but also doing as many

878
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: climbing routes along the way as possible. So it's basically

879
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: a link up that combines every mountain and every classic

880
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: climb in Red Rock all into one incredible push. And

881
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: so in theory, it would take me somewhere from like

882
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: twenty four to thirty six hours or something to do

883
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: all that of like continuous climbing, and it's it's like

884
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: tiring to even think about, you know, and I'm just like, oh,

885
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: that's that's a lot of exercise, that's a lot of effort.

886
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: And then it's like if I do something like that,

887
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: and then you're like, well, what's even bigger, what's even harder?

888
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 1: You're like, oh jeez, you know, like I don't know,

889
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: like it used to be enough for me to just

890
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: go climb one Root and Red Rock, you know, I'd

891
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: be like, oh cool, I had a great day in

892
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: the Canyans, I climbed this big cliff. Now I'm like

893
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: talking about in chaining every single route, and you're sort

894
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: of like, that's a that's a lot of effort. You know.

895
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: Are there other people and I don't like the word business,

896
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: but are there other people in your sphere? Maybe it's hellaskiers,

897
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: maybe it's surfers, and I don't think they qualifies your sphere,

898
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: but there are people that tackle waves in Portugal or something,

899
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: and you see the video of it and it's just

900
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you could literally be suffocated by a wave.

901
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: Are there people in your sphere of fearlessness that you

902
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 1: look at and think, Okay, now I feel like I

903
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: can control myself. They're against the shark there. I mean,

904
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: there are things in nature you can control. There are

905
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: are there other people in your sphere that you look

906
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: at and think, wow, that is a handful. I don't

907
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: know if I could go there. Yeah, definitely. And actually

908
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: in some ways it's people that are slightly outside of

909
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 1: the sphere. Like when I think of motorsports or something

910
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 1: like motocross or like Formula one racing or things like that.

911
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: You know, I see that and like that seems dangerous,

912
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, like cars up and people wrecking at super

913
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: high speed and honestly just the incredibly fast reaction times

914
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: because climbing is actually very slow and very control, very methodical.

915
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: Like the thing is when I'm free souling, if I

916
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: hesitate at all, it's fine. For the most part. I

917
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: can just hang there for a minute, think about it, relax,

918
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: take some deep breaths, and then carry on. You know.

919
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 1: It's a very slow paced activity, like all about control

920
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,919
Speaker 1: of the body. You know. When I think of something

921
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: like racing, like that's all about split section, you know,

922
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: reactions and just like incredible speed, and I'm like, oh,

923
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 1: that kind of stresses me. I have to think about

924
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 1: it does seems scary. Patience at some point really has

925
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: to be an asset for you. I mean, you have

926
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: to have some genetic gifts. You can't your palms, you

927
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: can't be a sweater you have you obviously have tremendous

928
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: core strength. But I I when I listen to you talk,

929
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: I think to myself, you were probably a very patient kid.

930
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: Like the ability to focus on something do it. I mean,

931
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: do you think that's an asset for you? Yeah? I

932
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: think my wife and maybe some my friends would say

933
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 1: that I'm not very patient, but I think you're right

934
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 1: there that I've always had an ability to focus on tasks,

935
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: like probably even as a kid, you know, like get

936
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: into a Lego set and then work on it for hours,

937
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: you know, like the single minded focus, you know. And

938
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,760
Speaker 1: I think that that can sort of translate to patients.

939
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that you're a patient person, you

940
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like I can focus on a

941
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: task indefinitely until I finished that task, but but I'm

942
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: also eager to get onto the next task, you know

943
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like not always patient. I'm like, okay,

944
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: chop chop, Let's move along, people. We got things to do, right, Alex.

945
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: When you have young people that are inspired by you

946
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: and what you do is without question viewed as dangerous

947
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: and young kids look up to you, are you comfortable

948
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: or is there a slight discomfort in saying, oh, you know,

949
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: helping young kids do it and knowing there's elements to

950
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: what they are inspired by by what you do that

951
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: are dangerous. Yeah. Though I try to make a very

952
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: clear distinction between risk and sort of consequence. So what

953
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: you're saying when you're saying, what I do is dangerous,

954
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: and I would feel very comfortable talking to any kid

955
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: about this because I think it's an important distinction in

956
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: all things in life. You know that kids, you know,

957
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 1: if they're inspired to do something, they should think about

958
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: the potential consequences, and then they should think of the

959
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: likelihood of those consequences occurring, and then they should sort

960
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: of do the mental map as to whether or not

961
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: something is worth it or not, you know, because most

962
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,879
Speaker 1: people take risk in their life in ways that they

963
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 1: don't really anticipate and they didn't really choose to. You know,

964
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: like if you think of somebody going out to the

965
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: bars on Friday night, like they're not really thinking through

966
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:31,919
Speaker 1: their risk taking for the evening, but it's like they're

967
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: probably gonna have a few drinks and then they might

968
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: drive home a little bit tipsy, or they might stay

969
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 1: out way too late and then drive home really really tired.

970
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: But either way, they're taking on risk that they didn't

971
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: necessarily sign up for. You know, they didn't choose like

972
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 1: this is a risk it's worth taking in my life.

973
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: They're just kind of like falling into it. And I

974
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 1: would very much encourage any child to think through the

975
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: risk that they take in their life, you know. I mean,

976
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: and I think that's totally appropriate. Think about freeseling is

977
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: that it's all about managing risk, and I think that

978
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 1: that's a skill that people should apply to all aspects

979
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: of life. Really, you know, Alex, when you in the documentary,

980
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: there's a point where they scan your brain and you

981
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: don't have the fear that others do. And did you

982
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:18,399
Speaker 1: recognize that? Did you ever sense that obviously you were

983
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: doing things other people? Were you aware of it? Well,

984
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: not exactly. And actually, so that seen in the film

985
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 1: is sort of a short version of what was actually

986
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: a long form article and all of this magazine it's

987
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: like a science magazine. There wrote this kind of long

988
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: form piece about this ember of my brain, and the takeaway,

989
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 1: I think the broader takeaway from that was more that

990
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: through you know, ten or fifteen years of continuous exposure,

991
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: I sort of desensitize myself to certain levels of stimulus.

992
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: And so in the film it kind of shows it's like, oh,

993
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: he doesn't feel fear, But I think the correct interpretation

994
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: is that I don't feel fear in that particular set,

995
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 1: in those particular circumstances, because it's basically just not anither

996
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: threshold to trigger my fear response, which seems a because

997
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: I've spent ten years desensitizing my pure response, you know.

998
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: So I think the other way to look at that

999
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: whole experiment is that if you practice something long enough,

1000
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: you know, you change your thresholds for it. Do you

1001
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 1: remember your first high, your first climb where you came

1002
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: off it and it literally changed your body chemistry, like

1003
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 1: you couldn't sleep. You you were young, and it was

1004
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: so dynamic you couldn't sleep that night. Yes, I mean,

1005
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 1: you know, maybe not quite the like couldn't sleep, But

1006
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: I definitely remember some of the early things that I've

1007
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 1: resold where the whole experience felt heightened, you know, like

1008
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 1: as I walked up with the cliff, was like, this

1009
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:39,720
Speaker 1: is going to be so intense. This is so crazy.

1010
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: And then my climb that I'm like, this is so crazy,

1011
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: and it's funny because some of those roots, you know,

1012
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: I've done now as an adult or whatever, and I'm like,

1013
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: this is very easy, Like it's an objectively very easy

1014
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: like things that I do in my tendency is now

1015
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, I'm having a great time. It's

1016
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: like totally casual, but when I was younger, I was like,

1017
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: this is like or death, Like, this is so intense.

1018
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: And actually that speaks to what I was saying about

1019
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: desensitizing your fear response over time, because I know that

1020
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: when I was younger, I found it very intense to

1021
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: do certain climes that now I feel completely casual. To me.

1022
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: It's like, clearly my threshold has wildly changed over the

1023
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: last fifteen years. And I mean, which makes sense, because

1024
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: anything you practice that much, it's it's gonna change for you.

1025
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting you are so attracted in nature

1026
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,479
Speaker 1: and experiences you obviously you didn't want the corporate life

1027
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 1: that that's a turn off for you, even your existence

1028
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 1: living in a van. But what's what's kind of ironic

1029
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: now is you're a little bit of a micro industry.

1030
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: You are the climber of note there's documentary made. I'm

1031
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,359
Speaker 1: sure I don't know you're apparel business, but you could

1032
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: certainly sell a lot of gear and that in an

1033
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: interesting way. And I don't know how it lands for

1034
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 1: you that this person that loved the freedom, the lack

1035
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: of daily treadmill responsibility, now you're a bit of a

1036
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: You're a bit of a micro economy onto yourself. Do

1037
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 1: you ever think about that? I mean, I've never thought

1038
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: of it in quite those terms, but um, I mean

1039
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: the way I like to think of it is like

1040
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 1: I like to think of the broader climbing industry. And

1041
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: actually a big part of the reason that that I

1042
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,399
Speaker 1: did this podcast that we mentioned, you know, climbing gold.

1043
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 1: It's like a big part of that is because climbing

1044
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: is really experiencing moment, like it's going to the Olympics

1045
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 1: for the first time this year. The sport has been

1046
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: growing tremendously. I mean, the film Free Solo certainly helped

1047
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: make it a little more mainstream, sure, And I like

1048
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:26,439
Speaker 1: to think of that as sort of like the rising

1049
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 1: tide raises all ships. You know. It's like, what's what's

1050
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: good for climbing is good for climbers as well. You know,

1051
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,320
Speaker 1: like basically all of my friends who are professional climbers

1052
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,720
Speaker 1: all wind up making a slightly better living because climbing

1053
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: is more popular and more people are going to gyms,

1054
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: and more people are buying climbing shoes, and therefore, you know,

1055
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: my friend can get paid a little bit more from

1056
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: the shoe company that we're both sponsored by. You know,

1057
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 1: and so so I like to see it as you know,

1058
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 1: what's good. Like, you know, the film Free Solo has

1059
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: been very good for actually, like so funny enough. In

1060
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: the film Free Solo, I'm wearing a shoe called the

1061
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 1: TC Pro and and so the whole home is basic

1062
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 1: an advertisement for the one type of climbing shoe. It's

1063
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: it's incredibly good at climbing on granite like el Cap.

1064
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: But um, but that shoe isn't really designed for jim climbing.

1065
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: But apparently it's now the best on the shoe in

1066
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: America because you know, the go board for it. So

1067
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 1: I heard, uh, you know, I heard it from somebody

1068
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: that apparently the numbers at ARII like that, you know,

1069
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 1: the gears sellers, like crazy numbers of these tz pros

1070
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: being sold. And I'm kind of like, you know, that's

1071
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 1: that's good. I mean, actually, if you saw the film

1072
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 1: Tommy Caldboll, who's like a good friend of mine, also

1073
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: a professional climber, and he's like an old climber, he

1074
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: made the shoe, like he designed the tz Pro, He

1075
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 1: designed to climb on ol Cap and he gets like

1076
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: a small percentage of the royalties. And so I'm kind

1077
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: of like, great, if Tommy gets to put his kids

1078
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 1: through college one day because I helped sell his shoes,

1079
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 1: I'm like that is perfect. Everybody's happy. It's good for

1080
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 1: the sport. Like we're all psyched, you know. So how

1081
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: old you know, Alex, I'm thirty five, starting to feel

1082
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: starting to feel middle aged. Is there a peak in climbing?

1083
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: Do you believe? Well? I mean I think that the

1084
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,320
Speaker 1: physical peak is the same as any other sport. I

1085
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: mean physically, you probably peak muscularly at like twenty three

1086
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: basically for a man. But climbing more than relies on

1087
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: technique and sort of experience more than most sports. So

1088
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: I think that you can kind of continue to peak

1089
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: much later as a climbing and then more importantly, being

1090
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: a professional climber doesn't totally rely on physicality and in

1091
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,720
Speaker 1: the same way that the most other sports do, because

1092
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 1: a big part of climbing is you know, the exploration,

1093
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: the adventure, the you know, the new experience of like

1094
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: putting up new roots, mentoring young climbers. Like basically, you

1095
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 1: can be a useful professional climber like well into your

1096
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: fifties or sixties for sure, because you can still be

1097
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,479
Speaker 1: taking people you can basically be developing new climbing areas

1098
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,720
Speaker 1: and interesting new places and sort of sharing the wisdom

1099
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: of climbing. So I mean I sort of expect to

1100
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,879
Speaker 1: be climbing at in a useful way, like late into

1101
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: my life. What a pleasure for me. The documentary by

1102
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: the Way, for You solo, and it chronicles how Alex

1103
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: became the first person to imil Capitan at Yosemite National Park.

1104
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:05,240
Speaker 1: I also was retwinning one of your Instagram pictures today.

1105
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 1: I just can't get enough of it. It is so

1106
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: anxiety inducing for me. I used to have a fear

1107
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 1: of heights, and then I kind of attacked it. I

1108
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 1: went and did a hot air balloon multiple and I

1109
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: went in a I flew in the San Juan Islands

1110
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 1: kind of open cockpit. So I kind of attacked it

1111
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: because I was tired of being owned by it and

1112
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 1: having anxieties and I'm just flying. That's exactly where I'm

1113
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: describing with desensitizing your still fears. I mean, that's exactly

1114
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: the same process, Like if you do something enough, you're

1115
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: just not afraid of it any mark. I mean, that's

1116
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: that's the same process. Well, I still hate snakes, and

1117
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: I'm not going to hang out in a pit of

1118
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: a malix. So I have limited I have limitations. I

1119
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: still occasionally, twice a year have a dream where I'm

1120
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: trapped by snakes. I can't get over it, and I'm

1121
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: not going to burst through that l I'm gonna tell

1122
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: you less important to overcome than the fear of heights,

1123
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: because the thing is, realistically, you just don't see snakes

1124
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: that much. So it's like why I put the f

1125
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: overcome that spear. It's like, you can just hold onto

1126
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: that fear because it does. Right. Do you have any fear?

1127
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: By the way, is there any little quirky, idiosyncratic thing

1128
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: in your life that you don't love? When I was younger,

1129
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: I was horrified of public speaking, like forfied of any

1130
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 1: kind of putting yourself out there publicly in any way.

1131
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: But you know, obviously I've that through years of movie

1132
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: touring and things like that. It's clearly the film tour

1133
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: did away with any kind of shyness that I used

1134
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: to ask. Congratulations on your success. I really appreciate the time,

1135
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 1: and thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and

1136
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: your expertise with us. I'm just fascinated by all of it.

1137
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Well, thank you. I appreciate you

1138
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 1: taking the time. Thanks Alex. Yeah, sures again. Alex's podcast

1139
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 1: is called Climbing Gold and Climbing has become due to

1140
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: Alex and the sixty minutes piece and the documentary is

1141
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: so popular. Climbing Gold he and his co host Fitz

1142
00:58:56,080 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 1: Kahal share stories from the people who define the sport. Well,

1143
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: I'm exhausted, Alex honold Chad Millman a monologue I should

1144
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: get double pay. I'm gonna whoever runs this company, It's

1145
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: time I have to sit down with him. Exhausting, all right.

1146
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 1: Follow us at The Volume Sports on Twitter and Instagram,

1147
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: Rate review, subscribe. Also make sure to subscribe and listen

1148
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: to the Catching Fades podcast with a Key to Lead,

1149
00:59:29,240 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 1: Unfiltered stories and the Realist takes on the NFL. The

1150
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: Volume