WEBVTT - EMBRACING SALARY TRANSPARENCY w/ EVERETT HARPER 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.160 Enjoy this throwback episode of Black Tech, Green Moneyvie holiday season. 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.640 I'm Will Lucas, Mrs Black Tech, Green Money. I'm going 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:15.560 to introduce you to some of the biggest names, some 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.880 of the brightest violence and brilliant ideas. Feel black in 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.320 building for simply using Texas secure your back. This podcast 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:30.120 is for you. Everett Heart per CEO and co founder 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:33.639 of Trust, a human center and software development company. He's 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:36.120 also author of the new leadership book Moved to the 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.000 Edge the Player, a Center, which was published by Widey 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:43.440 earlier this year. He was previously director of Customer Acquisition 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:47.320 and Community at Linden Lab Make Your Second Life, a 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.600 CEO and technologist who also hits many stages around the 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.920 world to talk about diversity, equity and inclusion. I asked 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.840 Effort to speak on this. I get that as a 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:02.040 more imperative diversity, but it is all so profitable to hire, fund, 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.440 promote and support black people. Uh. The quick answer is 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:11.080 yes and UH. There is a research um history, both 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.720 in academia and in practice for the last decade. UH. 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.240 Cathy Williams, for example, Late Great Kathy Williams Dr Cathy 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:23.280 Williams UH documented how that makes UM words that have 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:29.720 diverse boards have higher returns. Diverse ship teams returns the 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:35.200 UM process of innovation. More diverse teams have better UH 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.200 they essentially less blind spots when coming up with a solution. 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:43.160 So there's any number at different levels for the business 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.120 case for all those things. And that's before saying, oh, 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.560 if my customers are diverse, I would need to have representations. 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.560 So UM, there's a lot of history. At this point, 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.520 the ship has already sailed. So when you think about innovation, 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.200 I remember I don't remember which of the founders of 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:01.320 Twitter who talked about this, but there was a founder 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.040 of Twitter who talked about when you're trying to get people, 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:06.680 when you're trying to find a success in a startup, 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:09.120 the best thing you can do is not try to 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:11.959 change what people already do, but make what they do 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.200 more efficient, because when you try to get people to 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:18.280 change habits, you have an uphill, you know, battle to climb. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.280 And so can you talk about there was an article 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.040 I've read that you had um wrote this particular line. 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:25.440 I'm gonna read it back to you and you may 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.639 remember writing it. It says, we have a culture of 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:32.440 innovation quote unquote is a statement found on crumpled banners, 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:37.240 rolled up posters, and trash prochures, failed startups and shuttered businesses. 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.359 Companies and investors have tried to shift fund or shock 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:44.600 their employees into being becoming more innovative. Um. And then 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.920 you went on to say, an infrastructure for innovation beats 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.240 a culture of innovation. So those two concepts, the one 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.720 that I position and what you just wrote, how do 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.720 we how should we think about innovation when we are 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.200 black founders, when we have a unique perspective in the 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.200 marketplace and trying to build something, hopefully that the world 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.280 has never seen that will you know, provide us some 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:10.000 capital that we can build, you know, generational wealth. Yeah, yeah, 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:14.000 good points. And I guess I was feeling spicy that day. Um, 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:17.239 so I think, um, here's how we think about it now. 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.800 Twitter's culture. I don't know enough in the detail of 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:27.120 how they think about culture to be precise about what 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:31.280 they did because it may include an infrastructure that I 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.480 don't know. But I do know is when you talk 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.600 to BlackBerry, and you talked to Deck, and you talk 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:45.320 to folks at companies that Xerox Park that had the innovations. However, 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.200 they weren't able to put it in a system that 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.400 enabled those innovations to scale, or to be shared, or 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:57.600 to be sustainable. And it's really the system part that 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:02.280 I'm talking about to make innovations actually come to light. 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.280 So a different way to think about it is that um, 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.600 for example, when we with the with the pandemic and pele, oh, 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:14.080 we're gonna grit our teeth through this, and um, we're 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:17.640 gonna make it through by sheer will and hard work. 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.799 Well after a couple of months that bill starts to drop. 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.240 You can't sustain heroism like that. But if you build 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:29.760 a system that enables more people to benefit from that 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.040 system without the same amount of toil, then you're able 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.640 to get the innovations or any kind of innovations out 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.000 into the market where it can be tested in in 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:43.159 in with the customers. So I'm of the mind that 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:47.480 you don't have to look far for ideas for companies, 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.280 but that there are problems that exist all around us. 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.080 And can you talk a little bit about how, if 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:58.880 how do you admonish would be entrepreneurs to maybe look 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.160 more at their story in what is going on in 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.520 their world to help them come up with concepts or 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:09.960 ideas or projects that could ultimately become businesses to UM 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:14.839 more authentically practice a new way of doing things that 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:19.520 other people can employ. Also, Yeah, So what I tell 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:23.400 entrepreneurs with regard to that question is, you know, you 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.400 start with the problem that you know that your experience, 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.440 but you're only one person. For the next thing to 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.760 do immediately is to test it with other people around you. 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:36.279 Is this compelling? Is it um memorable? Does it solve 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.520 a problem? Doesn't accelerate your life? And be real honest 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:41.640 about that. That's actually the thing I love to do 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:46.600 most UM and UM. You'll get some people who will 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.760 support you, that's still not good enough that takes you 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.200 to the next level. Then it's people that you haven't 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:57.000 met before. And that's where the iteration and you know, 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.960 whether it's UM being start up principles or other iteration principles, 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.520 where you get out and you see whether your idea 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.560 takes hold, whether people grab it, whether people are doing 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.919 things on where you develop a platform for it. So 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:15.919 UM the ten with people that are around you is 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:19.680 only the first step. It's validing that and then it's 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:21.960 that might be a good idea, but is it a business? 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.560 So you have to ask the other kind of tops 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:26.200 of questions. Are people going to pay for it? Are 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.000 they going to devote their time for it? Are they 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.840 going to build on it? Those are the next level 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:35.159 questions that frankly, I find more entrepreneurs step missed that 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.560 boat than they do with ideas, because I think people 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.440 are full of different ideas. UM. I'll say the second 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:46.320 thing I tell people, everybody has the same tend people 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.440 the same idea you do right now, whatever it is, 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.400 six of those people and those people will just be 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.039 talking about it, thinking about it, whatever, won't even write 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.720 it down. Seven and eight person might have done a 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.760 little testing, might have like you know, explored some avenues, 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:07.440 but they got busy, got distracted. The ninth person actually 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.040 is is UM doing something about it? Is actually testing it. 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.320 Maybe there is a little bit of money. You want 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.760 to be the tenth person who has done all of 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:20.280 that and UM gone and put the diligence in the 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.200 time into that thing. So the idea is not the 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.160 original part. It's whether you're able to turn it into 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.280 something that's a repeatable practice that people will buy. There's 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.280 this concept of UM, and I think it's like people 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:35.360 like Peter til who talk about this like you have 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:37.800 to have a unique perspective on things like what is 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.800 your unique value? Like why should you be doing this thing? 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.080 If you're going to an investor and they're like, you know, okay, 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.840 we understand there's an opportunity in the marketplace, but why 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.840 are you the one to solve this thing? And when 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.680 I talk to entrepreneurs, sometimes not not of you know, 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:57.000 black descent or African American descent or African descent, I 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:01.040 should say, um, I find entrepreneurs who maybe in wildly 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.920 successful businesses, but they have no passion for the business 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.960 that they're in. Maybe they do you know, street signs, right, 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.960 whatever it is that they do. And I wonder if 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:12.880 you could play the other side of that conversation, like 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:15.880 when is it okay for us to just be opportunists 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.200 and see an opportunity in the marketplace and go do 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:25.240 something about it. There's no argument against that, that's for sure. 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:30.560 I think it's funny when you talk about why are 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:35.160 you the person? If you're not the person, but you 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.920 have a hundred thousand people saying that you are the person. 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:39.920 That's about it. Whether I think you're the person or 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:41.960 where the investor things your person is a hundred thousand 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:43.679 people back there and they're buying my service who think 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:46.080 I'm the person. They don't care about me, They care 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.440 about the service. And so if you're trying to get 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:50.160 funding and you have a whole bunch of traction, you 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:54.720 have a whole bunch of crazy fans. Um that's volumes. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:59.120 Now they may be look other kinds of pattern matching, right, 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.120 but results talk. So I think that that's the first 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:04.960 thing I think about when you're when you're when you 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:12.320 were saying um. And in terms of like taking opportunities, yeah, 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:16.280 because sometimes you practice that this one fails, but you 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.679 learn some things. You take another crack at it, a 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:23.000 little bit longer, a little bit later, another and then 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:27.280 it's the next idea that actually clicks. But waiting for 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:30.240 that perfect opportunity probably aren't going to ever start. So 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.400 if you see something before it tested out and then 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.360 hit that wall and say, yep, this is not the 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:37.680 business I want to be, that's much better than sort 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.240 of waiting back and hoping for perfect situation, because that's 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:43.440 not going to ever happen. Well, describe what that wall 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.520 could look like. How do you know when it's time 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:47.719 to hang it up. How do you know when it's 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.080 time that yet, I've been doing this long enough, I've 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:53.480 been I've spend too much money, or I'm not getting this. 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.040 How do you know what is the thing that says, yeah, 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:02.400 this hand, Yeah, that's a great quie sin because the 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:06.400 entrepreneur wants to be persevering and wants to be diligent 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.560 and like, don't take no for an answer. At least 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:12.240 that's the ethos, right, that's the story. The reality is 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:17.360 um my. From my experience and talking to other entrepreneurs, partially, 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.120 there's like pragmatic things. You run out of money, right, 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.880 that's it. And especially for our audience, we don't come 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.679 with thats of like historical cash, right, So there's that. 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:31.480 I think the more spiritual one. I think the heart 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:36.360 of your question is when your kind of soul is 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.439 no longer fed by this, you don't wake up energized 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.120 to try and overcome the next obstacle, because there will 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:49.920 be obstacles, um and the market is telling you, hey, na, 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.600 I'm not buying this. I had a nice spike at 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.280 the beginning and then it flattened out. You might try 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:56.880 a whole bunch of stuff and if it's not moving 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.000 the needle, then stunne UM. I'll tell you a a quick store. 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.880 When I was starting this company, UM, originally doing a 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:05.959 product company it was it was called tether Pad. It 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:11.600 was about doing smart calendars for executive assistance. Originally for travel, 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.559 but you know, it turned into the business thing. And 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.600 this is around two thousand eleven when smart calendars are 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.440 starting to come out. And I had this prototype, and 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:24.240 I was like, people complicated travel arrangements or whatever. And 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:26.320 I went to I said, where where do I find 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:30.720 travel people? Where people travel stories when they actually existed? UM? 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:33.439 And I went there and I had my little prototype. 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.920 I went to the travel section and I asked people, hey, 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:41.520 excuse me, would you use something like this? They were 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.600 like pleasant and nice and interested a little bit, but 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.120 no one said, oh my god, I have to have that. 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:49.880 That is the greatest thing in the in the world. 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:53.800 I knew that was not going to be a successful 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.520 UM product because if I can't sell them face to 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.480 the base, how am I going to do that when 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.680 I'm competing with millions of other stides to do travel. 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.720 Sometimes the business case and the lack of response tells 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:08.280 you everything you need to know that you need to 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:09.959 go back to a drawwood, which is what I did. 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:12.600 How do you how did you know that it wasn't 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:14.760 just another feature that you needed because we can get 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:19.559 feature hungary and have scope creep really really easily. Because okay, 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.439 maybe my travel app doesn't you know while the people. 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:24.520 But if I added just this one other thing and 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:26.760 then you find us another thing I had to add 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.760 at another thing, how do you know it's not just 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.440 a feature? How do you know when is the feature 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:37.480 is not going to do it? Because? Um, I was 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.280 trying to ask the core value proposition, which was, do 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:47.640 you have a problem traveling and arranging things for complex 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.000 travel or your you know, for your family or whatever. 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.800 The representation of that was my app, but really it 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:57.920 was the question about what the core problem was. And 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.000 what I got back was that it wasn't that import 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.320 and a problem to them. So I could add all 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:04.320 the features in the world, but if it's not important 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.560 to the buyer, it doesn't matter. So what I did 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:11.240 was actually say, huh, maybe this is the wrong the 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:15.240 right product, but it's the wrong audience who actually cares 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.880 about this and is willing to pay for it. I 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:21.240 went to give assistance because they are paid to complex 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:25.280 arrangements for their executives. When I presented the same prototype 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.760 with a little bit of you know, be skinning, they 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.679 were all over it because I nailed their problem. So 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.800 that was the difference. I don't care about the features 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.360 I'm adding until I understand the problem, and I'm trying 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:42.480 to solve for the audience in the audience's own, uh words, 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:47.400 or their own context. I would consider you, I'm you 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.480 are a d e I expert and if you would 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:52.480 call yourself that, but you're somebody who speaks on d 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:54.400 e I and you know are paid to speak on 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.320 d e I. Uh. What is interesting about the current 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:02.240 conversation about d EI we're having, particularly at the corporate level. 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.680 Let's start there. Like some companies believe if they put 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.480 some money into some inner city, you know, youth programs, 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.280 then they're being diverse and you know they're they're doing 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.280 their job. Other other companies believe if they hired black 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:18.480 d e I officer, they're doing their job. Um, what 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.520 is interesting about this conversation to you? And how do 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:26.520 we know if we're doing it right as corporate executives? Yeah, 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:32.080 I would say spicily, Um, most of the conversation interests 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.920 may be because it's a lot of window addressing UM, 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.800 which is not to say that investing in a playground 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:44.560 in UM community is not a great thing. That's fantastic 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.440 for the community, but that is not a sufficient d 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.160 e I response for any corporation of any significant size. 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:55.360 It's the initial drop in the bucket, for example. The 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.800 reason I say that is the question I always ask people, 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.440 and this is particularly after George Floyd and everybody's getting 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:03.520 involved with you know, d I trying to figure out 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:08.440 racial injustice and and and what supremacy, etcetera. The question 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.000 I would ask when people would come to me and say, hey, 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:12.680 what can you do? I love your health? I said, well, 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.720 what are you trying to do it for? How does 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.800 this connect with your business model? This is a question 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:23.400 you started with and then there's like often a silence. 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.040 I said, yeah, you need to figure out whether how 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.840 it's connected to your business model. So that's the first thing, 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.120 is is it connecting your business model? And many people 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.880 don't have that. Those that do start to start to 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.360 make progress in ways that others do not. UM. I 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.240 think the other thing that's interesting to me about the 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.800 conversation at the moment is the impact of remote work 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:51.760 and how the market changes if you are now not 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.760 just located in particular place, but actually can remote and 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.920 expansively across the country. We've been promote since the first 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:04.360 since two thousand twelve. We wanted to have a diverse company. 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.520 We're like, well, there isn't a full diversity here in 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.120 the Bay Area, and those who are here are going 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.520 to be heavily competed with um for town. And we 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:16.840 have Oh, by the way, we have Google and Facebook 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:21.280 who can PLoP a bonus um larger than someone's annual 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:25.000 sale at our company. So we went to rest of 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.680 the country and we have people in three states, and 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.520 we have black folks all over, and Hispanic or Latina, 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.800 latinos Um and Mina and and and but the located 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.560 where they and so that gets much more sustainable from 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.520 our perspective. Now we have to go to the next 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:43.800 level because other people have discovered it as well, So 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:45.480 we have to figure out the next thing. But we 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.440 developed this networks of community. I think they're going to 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.160 be sustainable in the long run. I wanted to go 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.000 deeper on the remote work thing in a second, but 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:56.960 I do want. I don't want to glance past something 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.120 you just talked about, and that's that corporate commitment to 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:04.439 being to actually making real lasting impact. How after you know, 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.560 the sizzle is gone from that pen after the immediate 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:14.000 George Floyd, you know impact or you know, police shootings 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:20.159 or elections that have real consequence, after those initial triggers, 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.680 how do we get corporate commitments to black people, to minorities, 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.840 to diversity, equity and inclusion, um, how do we get 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:34.480 them to last past that moment in time? Yeah, So 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:37.720 the way I think about the questions I would ask, 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.680 and so it's the dialogue that actually kind of starts 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:45.119 to spur action. One is is connected to your business model, 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:49.200 to who's running it. If it is a initiative within 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.919 a small marketing team organization, I don't take it seriously. 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.000 Why don't I take it seriously? Because so it's a 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.800 budget cut. As soon as there's a downturn, budgets are tight, 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:03.400 that discretionary program goes away. It needs to be led 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:05.600 by the executive and needs to be led by the 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:07.399 C suite, and needs to be led by the CEO. 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.479 That person needs to come in front and say I 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.399 believe in this. It's part of our business, even if 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.840 we don't know specifically what our googals are. I am 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.960 personally committed to making this happen. And then I have 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.520 people who are going to execute, so it's got to 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.240 come from them, and it's got to be on repeat. 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:29.720 So that's the question. I would then ask the CEO 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:35.960 of Alved how long is their support for that? And 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.600 then how are you gonna roll that out as a project. 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.040 I think the other um thing in terms of in 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:49.000 terms of asking is um. I'll quote my friend Damian 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.720 Hooper Campbell, who I interviewed for the book. He said, 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.160 diversity is measured in quarters and years. Making a dent 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.720 in diversity and inclusion is measured in quarters and years, 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:04.200 not days and weeks. And I absolutely completely agree with that. 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:08.159 Even for the well intentioned companies. If it was easy 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:10.280 to recruit a bunch of black folks, they would have 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:14.919 done it already. But we're heavily competed for or the 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.639 networks aren't there, or you're changing cultures internally. Anybody knows 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.639 about culture change. No, that takes that text quarters and years, 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.560 not days and being even if you're well intention So 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:31.040 what's your plan executive for having a year's long strategy 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.400 where you can actually move the needle. And that's where 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.040 we get some agreement and some alignment of what's realistic. 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:41.480 From my opinion, UM, you probably recognize that there is 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:47.639 a quickly moving bt O resurgence. You're like, back to 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.879 office companies are going back to office AP think Apple 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.240 announced it yesterday or today, depending on when you're listening 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.280 to this. Apple recently announced they wanted people back in 0:19:56.320 --> 0:20:00.239 the office. Um is that dangerous to this conversation of 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:08.680 diversity in the in the workplace? I think it's really interesting. Um, 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.640 there's a couple of different points to it. One, I 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.440 think the cats out of the bag. Frankly, in terms 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:18.480 of people saying, hunt, do I really have two hours 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.040 of my day or three hours of my day to 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:24.120 be commuting In an era where you have housing prices 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.080 rising and folks can't afford to live near yor city center, 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.639 that's even more of an issue. And it affects black 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:35.120 books in particular. If I'm in Mississippi or if I'm 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.439 in Georgia, if I'm in Atlanta, not only do I 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.640 have amazing Atlanta based companies, but I'm attracting attention from 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:46.240 all over the country. Why would I want to leave Atlanta? UM? 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.879 If you enjoy that community. I think the other side 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:53.679 of it gets interesting is UM. Oh yeah, And what 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:57.879 I think the other side of it is UM. How 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.680 do companies that used to be in office and who 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:06.920 are going hybrid or fully remote, how are they managing 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:14.240 the mentorship and sponsorship of new employees, particularly black and 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:17.959 brown employees. Here's how it works. If it's always if 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.720 it had been in an office and it's a little 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.960 bit of dry by and so forth, meetings or lunches 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.000 or whatever. Hey, I'd love to get like a coffee 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.400 with you and you get some informal mentoring and so forth. 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:32.200 That's awesome. If you move to hybrid, how does that happen? 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:36.720 It doesn't just automatically. Has to have an intention, and 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:40.080 so a company would have to say, we understand that, 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:44.000 and we're committed to either having identifying our star folks 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:46.960 or emerging talent and getting them back in that office 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:50.320 for a week a quarter so that we can kind 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.800 of get that that trust building that happens person to 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:57.080 person or a place of place to face UM, or 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.639 we do some other rotation system if as a remote 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:04.040 person who isn't getting that kind of manatorship and the 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.320 culture supports it face to face, they are at a deficit. 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.280 So what I would have to be thoughtful about setting 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.679 that up. So what do you say to employ you know, 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:15.919 black and brown employees who want to work at the 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:19.000 biggest companies in the world. Um, but it's you know, 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:20.919 all to live in the Bay is not the chiepest 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:23.280 place in the world live, you know, But I may 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:27.560 be talented enough and the engineer. Um. And then now 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:30.879 you know, six months ago I had this opportunity. What 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.159 happens when I want to work in some of the 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:35.760 biggest places to have some of the biggest impact on 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:40.280 the world via the technology perspective, And now they want 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:43.120 me to uproot my family and I got to bring 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:46.000 all of us to the Bay or to New York 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:50.520 or you know, think of a place. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:56.680 what I would say is too broaden. Actually the landscape here. 0:22:57.480 --> 0:22:59.680 You said, we will don't work at the biggest companies. 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:01.040 I say, why do you want to work at the 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:06.240 biggest companies? There are lots of amazing companies with great 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:10.920 brands that don't have to be the fan companies and 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:14.639 in fact, I think there's probably many, many opportunities that 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:19.320 go under the radar for making impact, for propelling your 0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:22.639 career to having a great sense of culture. So I 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:27.040 would broaden the broadeness the scale to other sorts of companies. 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:34.040 The second thing I'd say is negotiate um enable sorry 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:38.480 first create optionality. Right, that one company wants you to move, 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.800