1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: This is the Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hi, 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: I'm Jason Kelly. Welcome to Bloomberg Business of Sports. Before 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: we get to today's interview, I want to point out 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: this was a conversation that I did tape early last 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: week and ahead of the sports world and the entire 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: world reacting to the death of George Floyd. We've obviously 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: seen a lot of athletes and teams come out with statements, 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: but I just wanted to give you a sense of 9 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: when this happened. I am so happy to be joined 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: by George Pine of Bruined Sports Capital. He's a former 11 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: CEO at NASCAR for president of IMG Sports and Entertainment. 12 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: He has done so many things, and full confession, full disclosure, 13 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: I have known him for probably about a quarter of 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: a century now. We met in Atlanta way back in 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: the day, and it's a different world we're living in 16 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: and it's amazing what he's accomplished. In the interim, George, 17 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: really nice to hear your voice. Thanks, Jason, excited to 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: be here. Thanks for up with me. Well, I'm excited 19 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: to chat with you, in part because we're obviously living 20 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: in a very different time and I guess I want 21 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: to start by asking you what sort of life like 22 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: for you right now running this fund, running this business, 23 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: you know, knowing how much you are literally and figuratively 24 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: out and about in the world, uh, doing deals, what 25 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: does work look like for you right now? Well, you know, first, 26 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: you know, we have a number of poor five portfolio 27 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: companies that actually operate in fifteen different countries, um thirty 28 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: or forty offices around the world, and one of them 29 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: is based in northern Italy. So but you know, with 30 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,839 Speaker 1: Zoom and technology, I found that we're in in great 31 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, with great CEOs, so it makes what we 32 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: do a lot easier. But with Zoom, you're you're able 33 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: to pretty much say, in really good contact with with 34 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: your portfolio companies, So that's been terrific. And through the 35 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: Zoom technology and Blue Jeans or whatever, you're able to um, 36 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, speak with the bill in prospects. So we've 37 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: been pretty pretty lucky in the fact that we've been 38 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: incredibly efficient. I do think it's hard to acquire a 39 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: company without spending time with the management team in person, 40 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: so that's the only negative. And of course it's hard 41 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: to you know, everybody's earnings are hits so it's hard 42 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: to you, it's harder to understand that and also harder 43 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: to determine what the future looks like. So that's that's 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: a little tricky, but not impossible. But but overall, you know, 45 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: I feel very fortunate. You know, there's so many people 46 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: that are suffering and so many people that are performing 47 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: heroic work, and I think from our standpoint, we find 48 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: ourselves to be in a pretty fortunate position in our 49 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: companies have held up really well. Right, well, let's talk 50 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: about that. I mean, the world of sports has has 51 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: ground to a halt in many ways, and and you 52 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: are and we can talk more about this. I mean, 53 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: you're investing in sports in the broadest sense. And you know, 54 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: you and I spent some time together at our Power 55 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: Players on it. It feels like a hundred and fifty 56 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: years ago, but it was in February, early February of 57 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: this year down in Miami, and you know, you laid 58 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: out I think a very compelling case at that point 59 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: about you know, investing heavily in technology and you guys 60 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: have invested in experience. What does that look like at 61 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: the moment, given the that everything really is shut down. 62 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: Although and we'll talk about this. We're seeing sort of 63 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: glimmers of light and things coming back. Well, I think, 64 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: you know, it's a lot. So I first would start 65 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: off with the sports business in general. You know, it's 66 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: really been hard hit. I mean it's much very much 67 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: like the airlines or the hotel or restaurants. I mean, 68 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: we can't run the events, and so the entire ecosystem, 69 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, has been crowned to a complete halt. And 70 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: people don't quite understand the economic impact of sports. And 71 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: in the United States it's millions of jobs in the ecosystem. 72 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: So it's not just the owners the players. There real 73 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: people that are being impacted by the games not being played. 74 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: I mean, when you think about the game day, you've 75 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: got conceptu the people that are doing the food and beverage, 76 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: and the people that to the merchandise, and the people 77 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,679 Speaker 1: to collect the tickets, to security, the parking, and people 78 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 1: the the restaurants and bars around the games. I mean 79 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: there's this stat Tuscaloosa, Oklahoma, I mean Tuscaloosa, Alabama. One 80 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 1: game impact for the Alabama Crimson time to that community 81 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: is twenty million dollars a weekend. So sports is big business. 82 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: Hold on the site so I want you to say, 83 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: so one one week at one football weekend in Tescal Loose, 84 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: the University of Alabama dollars twenty million a weekend. So 85 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: if you think of this take about the impact of 86 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: college football, I mean they play for five or six 87 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: home games. Is Alabama doesn't play this year, which I 88 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: hope they do, it's a hundred twenty million years of 89 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: that community. And if the games are in half capacity, 90 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: which is probably likely, it's half of that. And and 91 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: you can extrapolate that to Madison, you know, Wisconsin, or Columbus, Ohio, 92 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: or Knoxville, Tennessee, or Auts in Georgia. And so sports, 93 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's big business, and it's quite an ecosystem. 94 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: And so that that business and that ecosystem has been 95 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: hard hit. And yes, these games are going back on television, 96 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: and that's good because that begins to get the business 97 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: back going up again. But the sports is still a 98 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: live event, game day business, and that's going to be 99 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: significantly hit this year. And I think it's going to 100 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: be a hit for twelve to thirty six months, and 101 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: I think it's gonna have long term implications on the 102 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: game day experience. And at the same token. It's going 103 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: to have implications. Um, I think like any other business, 104 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna see technology be adapted and accelerating the technology 105 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: in sports. So I think, really when you look at 106 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: the pandemic, there's two things won. The game day exp 107 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: aarians is going to have to change and be improved. Um, 108 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: you know, standing in line for a hot dog, you 109 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: know you're probably not going to be as comfortable as 110 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: you used to be standing in line to going to 111 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: the venue. You're not going to be feel the same 112 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: how foods presented being crammed into a merchandise store. The 113 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: whole experience is going to have to be reinvented, which 114 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: is probably a positive, but in the short run and 115 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: economic challenge. And then the other positive is going to 116 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: be because of technology and people consuming content on different platforms, 117 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: more and more of that's gonna accelerate and be pushed out. 118 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: So I think there will be acceleration of technology and 119 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: new platforms as a result of the pandemic. Like other industries, 120 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: is gonna be expedited. So that's to me when I 121 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: look back from the pandemic, I think the game day 122 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: experience will be reinvented. Technology will be accelerated. And then 123 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: that the other thing you're gonna have to look at 124 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: is just what does this this location mean? You know, 125 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: in terms of team owned ownership, you know, some teams 126 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: are going to be owners, could be in different affected industries, 127 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: Some teams may not be as capitalized as others. And 128 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: then I think college sports is an area to watch 129 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: because college football underwrites the pent of the revenue at 130 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: these schools. And then maybe basketball might be in a 131 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: place like Duke of Kansas, it will be more And 132 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: if you look at these other sports there, you know, 133 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: baseball right now will only come back if the players 134 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,679 Speaker 1: take less money. And the same thing with NBA and NHL. 135 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: You know there's nobody the players aren't getting paid in 136 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: college and college is at least a more live game business, 137 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: and so there's no way to replace that income. That's 138 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: going to create an economic hardship on universities at a 139 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: time when they're already feeling economic hardship in terms of 140 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: tuitions in state funding. So I think college sports is 141 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: a place to watch the this location um and again, 142 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: and because it has big media deals but still more 143 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: than live gate. That live gate number is going to 144 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: take a pretty good hit this year and maybe in 145 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: years to come. And the last point on the live 146 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: gate is going into this it was getting harder and 147 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: harder to generate ticket sales for every sport, and this 148 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: now is gonna intensify that issues. So those are kind 149 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: of the things I think to look at on the 150 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: opportunity side of reinvention, game day, acceleration of digital, but 151 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: also watching closely. What did this location means? Well, let's 152 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: talk about college sports for a second, because it's an 153 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: area I'm fascinating with. As I mentioned in the introduction, 154 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: you and I first met down in Atlanta a lifetime ago, 155 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: and obviously you go down south and and notably a 156 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: number of the towns you mentioned when you were talking 157 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: about the economic impact right there in the SEC And 158 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: I do wonder about colleges and college sports and the 159 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: knock on effect and how do from colleges deal with that. 160 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: I mean, keep me on this here. You played college football, right, 161 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: I mean you understand sort of how it how it 162 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: all uh fits together? Will in your estimation schools protect 163 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: the marquee sports and and maybe to the detriment of 164 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: some of the lesser sports, how do they wrestle with this. Well, again, 165 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: long term, college football will be fine because college football 166 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: provides the revenue for most cases to support all the 167 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: other sports. So if you're in another sport, you're rooting 168 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: for college football. As an example, I was speaking to 169 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: a leader in the Olympic movement in Europe and he 170 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: was asking me what was going to happen with college 171 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: football because they were concerned on the drain of revenue 172 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: on Olympic sports in the United States. And you know, 173 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: people don't really talk about it too often. The college 174 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: football and writes the costs for all those other sports. 175 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: And so as that revenue from football declines because of 176 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: the pandemic, and again it's going to decline because it's 177 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: more gate, that's going to have a real impact on 178 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: all the other sports. And you see now a number 179 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: of schools dropping other sports. The only two sports typically 180 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: at a school that generate revenue or football and basketball, 181 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: and mostly it's football, and so the other sports are costs, 182 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: and as the revenues go away, there's gonna have to 183 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: find a way to either supplement those costs or cut 184 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: those costs. And of course, as you know, in higher 185 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: education today, we're going on with the pandemic, the costs 186 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: of higher education, just in terms of keeping students safe 187 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: and also questioning tuition revenue, whether people go online versus 188 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: going to college. They're already in a difficult spot. So 189 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: it's gonna put a lot of pressure on athletic budgets. 190 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:52,239 Speaker 1: The other little impact that athletics typically have which helps universities, 191 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: why universities are so enthusiastic, is that it also supports fundraising. 192 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: So at the time when you're gonna and you need funding, 193 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: you know it's going to hit your fundraising as well. 194 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: So it's going to have big implications. That's why when 195 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: you think of the ecosystem, you have all those coaches, 196 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: all those trainers for all these different sports that are 197 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: depending on that revenue, and that revenue might not be there. 198 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: And not to mention again tuscalousco or these are the 199 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: small towns that depend on those games for their communities. 200 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: And so you also mentioned something that that I want 201 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: to pick up one around ownership because especially in baseball 202 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: right now and we're taping this on May and there's 203 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: literally discussions ongoing right now. It's it sounds like as 204 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: we speak between the owners and the players of major 205 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: League Baseball, and you are at least hearing a lot 206 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: from owners about the economic pain that they will suffer, 207 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: and they clearly you're thinking about that ecosystem as well 208 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: around a Major League Baseball stadium. So what do you 209 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: make of that of the arguments, especially having you know, 210 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: run a company that represented heavily to at I MG 211 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: This debate between sort of labor and management that we're 212 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: having it in many major sports, but it seems like 213 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: most pointedly in baseball. Well, baseball is harder because first 214 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: of all, they have more games, and therefore they sell 215 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: the most tickets. So there's seventy million tickets here they 216 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: have to sell. And so because again those sports that 217 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: are more reliant on the live game, it's more challenging, 218 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: and so therefore that they're harder hit. And and it 219 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: really does come about economics, because it doesn't pencil out 220 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: to play the baseball games just for the media money, 221 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: and so therefore they have to go back to the 222 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: players and saying for in order for this to be 223 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: economically sensible, I need a reduction, and then you're into 224 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: a negotiation, and the unfortunate part of ownership and labor 225 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: labor negotiations they're typically contentious and typically take place over 226 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: two years, and now they have to take place over 227 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: you know, a very short amount of time. We should 228 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: only amplifies that. And I think baseball faces the most 229 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: challenging situation because they play the most games and have 230 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: to sell the most tickets. They're the most depended on 231 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: the game, and so it is, it is challenging, and 232 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: that's the unique dynamic as a result of the pandemic. Well, 233 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 1: it's also interesting to think about, you know, baseball, and 234 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: as someone who knows sports as well as you do, 235 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: do you know, sure you appreciate as much as I do, 236 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: you know baseball and it's sort of iconic place in 237 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: American history. It also feels like that's coming into play 238 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: in all of this and America's pastime and all these 239 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: different things, and it becomes for better or worse kind 240 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: of part of the debate here, right between the owners 241 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: and the players. And it's hard to imagine maybe going 242 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: into this, but you know, patriotism feels like it's part 243 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: of the argument here, which is just kind of interesting. Yeah, Well, 244 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: I think you know sports, and you know, you never 245 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: missed something until you don't have it. And I think 246 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: it's fair to say that sports not being on television 247 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,719 Speaker 1: is a real void. This This is not somebody you 248 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: know it. Sports is great reality TV. You have winners 249 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: and losers and heroes and villains, and it's it's always changing. 250 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: And you know, sports represents eighty eight or any hunt 251 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: of the top hundred programs on television. And you know, 252 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: at the time when viewership is high because everybody's at home, 253 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: you don't have the most popular form of entertainment. And 254 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: so you know, there is a great deal of interest. 255 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: And you even take a look this weekend with Tiger 256 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: Woods and Phil Nicholson and Tom Brady and Peyton Manning 257 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: and is the highest rated golf broadcasts in your cable history. 258 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: And so you know people want sports. Sports represent America. 259 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: And of course, you know baseball is the national past time. 260 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: So you know, it's all kind of in the puzzle. 261 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: And you know, I think, I'm I want to be optimistic. 262 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: I think the players and the owners will work it out. 263 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: But it is most u most exasperated in baseball because 264 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: they have so many seats to sell them there for 265 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: it's a it's fine, more financially challenging props than others 266 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: so you mentioned the match too. When you look at 267 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: that as someone who works in the business of sports 268 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: but also is you know, has a really good track 269 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: record of being opportunistic, what do you see there in 270 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: terms of opportunity, because you know, you've got the camera placements, 271 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: you've got the sort of live in you know, sort 272 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: of in match commentary and them giving each other a 273 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: hard time, You've got Charles Barkley way. You know, you've 274 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: got all these different elements. Does a light go on 275 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: in your brain or do you see that sort of 276 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: thing and say, okay, well that validates what I think 277 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: about this element of technology, or how do you look 278 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: at something like that. I think it as an opportunity. 279 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: As you point out, you're going to be able to 280 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: know see different types of formats for all the different sports. 281 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: And I also think you're going to see real enhancements 282 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: and broadcasting like you're seeing bring the fans closer to 283 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: the viewers closer. So all these sports this summer have 284 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: an opportunity to reinvent the broadcast experience and probably will 285 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: have to without fans in the stands, And so I 286 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: think that's gonna be another positive development coming out of 287 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: the pandemic that the broadcast experience will probably be enhanced. 288 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: Like every other business, you're gonna have to pivot and 289 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: adapt and find a way to better present your product 290 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: in this new environment. And I think you're gonna see that. 291 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: You know, as an example, again, the PGA Tour is 292 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: gonna come back in mid June and Texas and they're 293 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: gonna have full fields for four or five, six, seven, 294 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: eight weeks. So that's gonna be very different. Actually it's 295 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: going to be better because all the best players are 296 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: gonna be playing every week and that's going to give 297 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: the tour an opportunity to showcase compelling golf competition with 298 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, compelling athletes. And so the question is what 299 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: innovations can you bring along with that to even make 300 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: it more interesting? And so I do think that without 301 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: the fans, you're going to see people try to innovate 302 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: on the broadcasting side, and you know, some good things 303 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: are gonna come out of a bad thing, and those 304 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: people that do it better are probably going to do 305 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: better than those that don't. Yeah. Interesting, So you know 306 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: one place where you saw that, I think really up 307 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: close and personally where a driver of that was in 308 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: NASCAR and and so I want to talk to you 309 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: about your experience there because you know, I think it's 310 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: easy to forget, probably not for you, but easy for 311 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: the rest of us to forget sort of where NASCAR 312 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: was when you came in sort of family business and 313 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: not a sort of family business, a family business. And 314 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: you know what you undertook, there was no small feat 315 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: in many ways as you look back on that, what 316 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: do you take that you apply now? What were sort 317 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: of the catalytic lessons as it were from your time 318 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: at NASCAR as a point to our fire point. I 319 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: mean when we went from really cable television network television, 320 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: and you know that David Hill was the president of 321 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: Fox Sports. He's known all around the world is one 322 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: of probably one of the best production in the history 323 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: of sports in the world. He's running Fox Sports at 324 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: the time, and what he brought to the sport at 325 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: that time was better camera, angles, sound and all kinds 326 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: of different creativity that catapulted the sport to a new level. 327 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: You know, one of the things in life, you know, 328 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: you have to find an opportunity. You know, my I 329 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: worked for Tedforceman, who is you know, HiCon and private 330 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: equity and Ted used to say, you have to have potential, 331 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: you have to have people, and then you get profits. 332 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: And so I always thought, you know, we had a 333 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: mutual friend whose wife came home was studying at Georgia State, 334 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: and she was talking about the growth fundamentals and NASCAR, 335 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: and so I got so sored of hearing about even 336 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: though it wasn't necessarily a cargo, I went down a 337 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: NASCAR and signed them up as a client. And based 338 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: on the fact that I thought NASCAR had great potential, 339 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 1: and as I worked more with them, I thought they 340 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 1: had great potential to grow beyond what it was. As 341 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: you point out, you know, sixteen races around the national network. 342 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: The network doesn't exist any more, har More Flee Southeast 343 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: mostly auto parts companies. But I thought I had great potential. 344 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: And what we did, you know, is go out and 345 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: recruit really good people. So we recruited people from the NBA, 346 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: We recruited people from Procter and Gamble, we recruited people 347 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: from Disney. You know, I even brought in a number 348 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: of Democrats into into NASCAR. Uh And I had Democrats 349 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: and Republicans I recruited, which I think it's I mean, 350 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: like we understand it now as uh as sort of 351 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: an obvious thing, but back then that was probably people 352 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: probably thought you were insane, right, So I I. So 353 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: we had a dale earnhard O, seven time champion was 354 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: you know, died on national TV on Fox in front 355 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: of thirty five million people, and we were not where 356 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: we needed to be in on the communications side. And 357 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: I had been promoted to run the company like four 358 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: weeks before. So I found Jody Powell used to be 359 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: press secretary for President Carter, and he culturally really related 360 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: well with the people in NASCAR, even though he was 361 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: a Democrat, And so we had him come down and 362 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: teach us the fundamentals of communication and a crisis, and 363 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: we ended up hiring his chief of staff, who was 364 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: we used to work for Richard get Part And then 365 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: we hired another gentleman who used to work for John Kerry. 366 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: So we brought in the best mind in this case 367 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: of political experts that were really good in crisis management 368 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: and up hiring him. So I think again part of 369 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 1: the lesson you learned the NASCAR's you have to be 370 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: in a growing situation, but then you have to bring 371 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: in other talented people for you to take advantage of it, 372 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: and then partner with great people. So you know, Coca 373 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: Cola was a great partner. You know, Fox NBC, we're 374 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: great partners and they were. Then Nextal was a great partner. 375 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: So partnering with companies that could really help you grow 376 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: your business was an important thing. And then the other 377 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: lesson I learned was working with your constituents. You know, 378 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: when you're running a company or or a country, but 379 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: in those countries both companies are small countries. Really when 380 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: you think about it, managing your constituent base is an 381 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: important thing, and so building relationships with the drivers and 382 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: the tracks and aligning those interests or another important element 383 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: of growth. So again potential was there, you know, you 384 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: really needed to bring in the right people and then 385 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: you know, then the profits came. And so that's kind 386 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: of a simple formula, you know, I think that, but 387 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: those are key things. Getting the right people working with you, 388 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: and then partnering right with the right people to take 389 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,479 Speaker 1: you to places that on your own you really couldn't 390 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: get to what you learn about stands and consumers from NASCAR, 391 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: because I feel like it's an amazing window into America 392 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: that few of us who live on the Coast fully appreciate. 393 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: You know, you and I again have the benefit of 394 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: having lived down south, although Atlanta is a different sort 395 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: of place, but having moved around the South a lot 396 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: as you have, one understands that it's very easy to 397 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: get trapped in that sort of New Yorker cartoon of 398 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: like the world just sort of drops off at the 399 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: edge of Manhattan. I would imagine. You can't think like that. 400 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: It's impossible to think like that if you're running NASCAR. Yeah, 401 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: I know, that's exactly right. And so one of the 402 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 1: things we did was we we did really we had 403 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: to compete against all the pro sports leagues back in 404 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: the nineties, and they were perceived to be far more 405 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: successful and had more resources. So the question was how 406 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: do you compete with these people? And what we did 407 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: is we did a lot of fan research, and what 408 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: we understood was we really understood our fans, and we 409 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 1: contracted our fans to how they fit other corporate brands 410 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: and what made them special and unique. And I can 411 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: still remember it, you know, we had these two binoculars. 412 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: On one side was all the great elements of competition, 413 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: you know, edge of the c competition. You never know 414 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: who's gonna win, great product, But mostly every sport could 415 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: claim that. What we claimed was that NASCAR was like 416 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: a big fan. The people that were had a sense 417 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: of belonging, a sense of family, and people who were 418 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,239 Speaker 1: straight up and athletes that you could admire. And we 419 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: were fortunate at that time in the nineties where there 420 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: were player strikes really for the first time, and we 421 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: were able to use that, Hey, you know our athletes, 422 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: some people like you. There's somebody who could admire. There's 423 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: a sense of belonging that's unique to being a NASCAR 424 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 1: a fan. And what you find out is really it's 425 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: not just the South. It's really C in D Counties 426 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: in New Hampshire and Paine in Illinois. And it's really 427 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: a different contrast between the A and B counties and 428 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: the C and D counties. And so we really throw 429 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: that home the Corporate America saying, look, these are your consumers. 430 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: There are the people buying the churge and they're buying 431 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: all these consumer package goods. You want to reseach people 432 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: and they're passionate about what NASCAR stands for. And that 433 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: was really Jason. I hired a guy who's a brand manager, 434 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: a proper and gamble, which at the time was unheard 435 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: of in NASCAR. And yeah, he came in and helped 436 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: us understand the demographics and psychographics of our fan base 437 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: and then compared that match that up with the with 438 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: the sponsors. And that's how we really told it had 439 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: to be true obviously, which it was. And it wasn't 440 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: so much again, a sudden phenomenon, but it was more 441 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: of a scene deep phenomenon. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, well, and 442 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: I think, and you're right, that is a I sort 443 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: of showed my own bias to some extent thinking about 444 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: it as a sudden thing, but you're right, and it's 445 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: the rest of the country sort of thing in many ways, 446 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: and I feel like has only I would imagine that 447 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: you've been able to take those sorts of learnings, especially 448 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: into twenty America, where it feels like maybe we're not 449 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: to delve into politics, but you know, we're as divided 450 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: as ever in many ways, and and even and when 451 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: you think about how people are viewing the pandemic through 452 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: political lenses, I would imagine you take a lot of 453 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: that with you as you understand fans and consume it 454 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 1: is going forward. Well, it's in an incredible rod when 455 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: you think about you know, I spell as you point out, 456 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: seventeen years in the South. Uh and and you know 457 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: the Deep South spending. I'm jocolin Sound who spent weekends 458 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: in um Talladega, Alabama, Johnson City, Tennessee, Florence, South Carolina. 459 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: You know I haven't. And by the way, when I 460 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: left NASCAR, I cried, so I loved it. From Massachusetts, 461 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: went to brown came back, worked in New York for 462 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: I am G. And I am G was a different situation, right. 463 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: I'm G was in thirty countries and it was the 464 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: high end of the high end. I mean we were 465 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: we had clients like you know, Giselle and and we 466 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: ran fashion week and we were worked at Wimbledon and 467 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: in the British Open, and you know, we were a 468 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: global company and that was really I'll tell you a 469 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: funny story. One of my first month on the job 470 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: at I AMG. I went to a fashion show in Sydney, Australia. 471 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 1: As the president company, sat at the end of a 472 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: runway and I said, jeez, igo, a month ago I 473 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: was a Telladega, Alabama. So it tells you have life 474 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: life change, But you are right it's very different between 475 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: the Blue States and the Red States, and the United 476 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: States is very different than other states. And having to manage, 477 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: um manage different people and work with different people is 478 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: an important skill set, you know. Ironically, you know, I 479 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: went to Brown University, and one of the things Brown 480 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: taught me was tolerance, understanding that you know, I may 481 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: not be like somebody else, but I should work with 482 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: them and I should never pre judge them. So I 483 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: got out of Brown, and of course the experience of 484 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: Brown where I was. I came from working home a 485 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: blue collar family to Brown, which was quite different. Actually, 486 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: that experience helped me go to NASCAR. But going to 487 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: NASCAR actually where people who are different helped me and 488 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: I MG because when I'm g when you're running a 489 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: staff meeting with people from all over the world that 490 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 1: don't get along with one another, that's equally challenging. So 491 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: all those experiences kind of, you know, build on one another. 492 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,479 Speaker 1: I'll tell you one funny story. So I opened up 493 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: the first office ever outside of Daytona Beach in North Carolina, 494 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: and uh, I called back to headquarters to file my report, 495 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: and I said, I've got good news and bad news. 496 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: I said, the bad news is nobody likes us, I 497 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: mean me being NASCAR with the race teams. I said, 498 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: the good news is nobody likes anybody else. So we've 499 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: got an equal chance here to to make progress. And 500 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: to be quite honest, when you run a global company 501 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: and you have different people from different regions of the 502 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: world having to blend and meld those people for a 503 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: common gold, quite frankly, it was no different than what 504 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: I did in Nascar. It was just a different set 505 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: of people. And so it's all those sets of experience 506 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: in life that really make it different. You know, the 507 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: French and Germans may not, you know, culturally get along, 508 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: or the Italians and the Germans of the British and 509 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: the and the French, and so you know. I remember 510 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 1: when I first ran my first staff meeting and I 511 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: am g in Europe. Like a couple of months later, 512 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: I said to myself, my gosh, I go, how did 513 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 1: the diplomat get anything done? I said, these pople work 514 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 1: from me, and they don't want to listen to one 515 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: word I say, and much left each other right right. 516 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: And I had lunch one day with Mike kill who 517 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: was a diplomat, and he he was dealing with North Korea, 518 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: and I said, man, I got, I got. I thought, 519 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: how do you handle this? And he goes, very difficultly. 520 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: But you know, I learned great, a great lesson once 521 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: from Doug is Adel, who at the time was the 522 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: chairman and CEO of Coke Cola, and I had munch 523 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: with one day and I said, well, how do you 524 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: manage a global company? And he said listen. He goes, 525 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: you're gonna want someone to go from point A to 526 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: point B, and you know they might want to do 527 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 1: it differently than you do. And he said, you gotta 528 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,239 Speaker 1: let them do it as long as they get from 529 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: point A to point being. And I thought that was 530 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: great advice. And managing people from different regions, so you 531 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: know the world the country has divided. The world also 532 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: is very different, and it's really trying to find those 533 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: common interests in finding ways to motivate people for a 534 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: common goal that really, I think is the trick. So 535 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: you gotta give me a Teddy four sman's story. And 536 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: you know, and for listeners of a certain age, you say, 537 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: like me, you you say the name Teddy Forceman, and 538 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: especially having looked after the private equity beat for a 539 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: long time. Anyone who read Barbarians at the Gate. I mean, 540 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: this is a legendary Nancy or the late Teddyforceman and 541 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: had a massive impact on on so many parts of 542 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: the financial world, but also the world of sports through 543 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: I m g. And I do wonder. I mean, we 544 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: could spend the rest of the day. I'm sure telling 545 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: teddyforcemans or are you telling teddyenforcement stories? But I do 546 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: wonder what did you take from him? Because he was 547 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: notoriously difficult, notoriously smart, obviously ambitious and driven. But that 548 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: is not for the faint of heart, I would imagine, no, 549 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: I mean I find myself cloting to it all the time. 550 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: I went to work for Ted when I was forty 551 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: years old and Ted is probably sixty five at the time. 552 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,479 Speaker 1: And I did it because I thought I could learn 553 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: a lot, which I did, you know, and some of 554 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: the things people might find interesting about Ted he was 555 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: an incredibly generous person. He gave hundreds of millions of 556 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: dollars to charity when he was alive, not only after 557 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: he passed away. He was religious, you know. I traveled 558 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: Europe with him once for two weeks and we went 559 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: to church in Paris in Germany and so so he's 560 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: incredibly religious, called his mother when she was alive every day. 561 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: So there were incredibly great things about Ted. He was 562 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: very difficult and very demanding, and there's Olka in my 563 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: office was with him. I lived, My office is right 564 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: next to his, and he was tough. I mean, he 565 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: just know the way around it. And my favorite story 566 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: about Ted was, of course, what I learned from Ted 567 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: was structuring risk. Like Ted was really very negative about everything, 568 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: but if he found a way to minimize the risk, 569 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: and he was all in and there was no changing him. 570 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: And so you know, one of my favorite stories about 571 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: Ted was it was during the financial crisis and we 572 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: have an opportunity to buy a company in college sports 573 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: and really kind of get a big, big position in 574 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: college sports. And Ted walked into me and we had 575 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: to borrow money to do it, and he said, listen, 576 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna have a tough conversation. I don't want you 577 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: to say anything, and you're not gonna like it, but 578 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: that's too bad and you need to fall in line. 579 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: And he probably didn't say it that nice. He said, listen, 580 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: we're not gonna borrow. We're not gonna borrow it's a 581 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: hundred and se five million dollars. We're not borrowing that 582 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: money because the banks are like lowing sharks and we're 583 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: just not gonna We're it's not gonna do it. And 584 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: so I went home that night and I had a 585 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: with a colleague, had a couple of glasses of the 586 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: wine and about and Ted always read his email. So 587 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: at ten o'clock at night I emailed Ted and I said, 588 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: I said, Ted, you know, I understand where you are. 589 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: I said, but if you don't do this, they'll be 590 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: like passing up on the rights to own the Premier 591 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: League thirty years ago. And I go, you'll regret it 592 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: and that will be a big mistake. But I'll sa 593 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: are you whatever you want to do. And it was 594 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: a Thursday before Memorial Day weekend. So the next morning, 595 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: you know, I had little kids at the time, and 596 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm driving up to we have a place up in 597 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: Cape Cod and it's like nine o'clock in the morning 598 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: and Ted, you know, he's at this point probably sixty 599 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: six time typically didn't come into ten or ten thirty. 600 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: And I get a call from Ted at nine in 601 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: the morning and he goes, where are you? I said, 602 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: I've gone driving at Cape Cod. It's a world day weekend. 603 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: He goes, the company is at an inflection point. Turn 604 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: around and get back here. We need to buy that company. 605 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: So you know what you learn from Ted was he listened, 606 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: He's analyzed, he thought, and he managed risks. And you know, 607 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: I find myself quoting him probably at least every other day, 608 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: if not every day. I learned. I learned a lot 609 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: from him. He was not easy, but you know he 610 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: had learned a great deal from him. Well, they say, 611 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: you know, the great ones are never easy, right, That's 612 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: part of what makes them great. Uh So, just as 613 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: we up here, I mean, I do wonder, you know, 614 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,959 Speaker 1: as you think about your company right now, you know, 615 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: it feels like so much of your career really not 616 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: to be too grandiose about it, but sort of has 617 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: been leading to this moment for for Bruin in many ways. 618 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: You know, what's what is the next year, two years, 619 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: three years look like in terms of opportunity for you 620 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: and for the firm. And I'm guessing your answer maybe 621 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: a little bit different than it was when I asked 622 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: you a similar question earlier this year. You know, given 623 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: everything that that's going on, in the world. But as 624 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: you you know, sit and think about that, as you 625 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: talk to your team, what do the next few years 626 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: look like? Well, you know, first of all, haven't grown 627 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: up in the business for thirty years. You know, I 628 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: am very sad because my friends who were part of 629 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: this industry and the industry that's been so great to 630 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: me is going to be hard hit. There's just no 631 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: way around it. And so I go into this, you know, 632 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: concerned and worried about my friends in a business that's 633 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: been been great to me. And I don't underestimate there's 634 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: no way to overstate that. Underestimate those feelings as it 635 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: relates to bruin Um. You know, we find ourselves in 636 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: in in really good position. Our companies, our CEOs have 637 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: done a terrific job and our leaders in their particular areas. 638 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: So for our companies, I think they're going to come 639 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: out of this, you know, stronger and better. And I 640 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 1: think one of the things that you lose in a 641 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: bull market is that, you know, one of the things 642 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: that you criticize me is I I didn't put much 643 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: leverage on the companies because I always felt like we 644 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,439 Speaker 1: were going to create value by operations, not so much 645 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: by financial structuring, so that doesn't look so great in 646 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: the bull market, but in a market like today, having 647 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 1: companies that aren't leveraged is really a blessing. And I 648 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: think that you know who you do b this with 649 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: in a bowl market probably has less value, and going forward, 650 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,359 Speaker 1: I think as turbulent times, there's more value put on 651 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: you know who's backing you and who you're dealing with. 652 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: So I think on the portfolio side, our companies will 653 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: come out bigger and stronger. Why because there and I 654 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 1: have two streaming companies, I have a design company. I 655 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: think they're going to do quite well of a data company, 656 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: so they're really gonna benefit from the acceleration in technology. 657 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: And then you know, we just raised close to seven 658 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars in November. So I do think there 659 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: are going to be a number of opportunities that we 660 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: know are going to see and it could be a 661 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: good time to invest behind the business because sports, well 662 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: it's gonna be hit hard in the next twelve to 663 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: thirty six months. Long term, I think sports will be strong, 664 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: so they're probably, like other investment opportunities, will be good 665 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: investment opportunities in the next twelve to thirty six months, um, 666 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: because of the dislocation of the pandemic. And I think 667 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: as a category, you know, sports is strong, so you know, 668 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: like anybody else, you gotta pivot, you gotta be resilient. 669 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm more hopeful than not going forward. 670 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,879 Speaker 1: George Pine, what a treat. I'm so glad we got 671 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: a chance to do this. I feel like it's a 672 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: it's a long time coming in some ways, you know, 673 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: as I said at the top, sort of a quarter 674 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: century in the making. You know who knew when we 675 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: met at Billy Andrade's house, Billy and Jody Andrade's house 676 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: many years ago, um, that we'd be sitting here talking 677 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: about this. It's really a pleasure for me. So I 678 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: really appreciate your time. I really enjoy it. And it's 679 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: great to reconnect in those especial times. And uh, and 680 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: thank you so much for giving me the opportunity. All right, 681 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: that's George Pine. You've been listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports. 682 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: We're here each and every week online. Find it wherever 683 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Catch those Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays 684 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: when they drop. You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports 685 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: from Bloomberg Radio around the world. I'm chasing health