WEBVTT - Are You an Otrovert? Understanding This New Personality Type May Save Your Relationship 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:14.360 Hey, folks, it is Sunday, February first, and are you 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:20.480 an introvert or an extrovert? You might be neither because 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:25.120 there is a new personality type that could possibly help 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:29.520 you understand yourself or your partner better. And with that, 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.360 welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ, an episode 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.440 in which our relationship is about to be improved significantly. 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.440 Because you have been so excited about this damn story. 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:40.479 I don't know anything about it. Let me get that 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:42.360 out of the way. I don't even know what this 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:44.280 new personality type is. Please explain. 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.600 You're such an outrovert. Oh, it's a what otrovert? 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.400 That sounds That doesn't sound rightt otro How do you 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:51.240 spell otro. 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.000 Otro v e r t otrovert? 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.520 Is it fair to say, just based on what I'm hearing? 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.440 Is it in the middle of introvert extrovert or on 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:01.440 the one of the ends? 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:06.399 So it combines both, but it's its own. It's in 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:10.120 its own space because otro is Spanish for other and 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.280 otrovert means one who is facing a different direction. You 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:19.480 don't go with the group O trovert O trovert. You 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:21.760 often call yourself a disruptor. Do you not. 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:24.559 No, I'm never a disruptor. I sit quietly in the corner. 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.039 I'm no, no, no, no. I Okay, here's the thing 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:27.680 that's true. 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.120 Everything you're saying actually reads with what we will explain. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:32.640 What did you just say? I what do you say? 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:34.039 I say, I'm always disruptor? 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.440 I'm I'm the disruptor? Why am I always the disruptor? 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:39.479 Meaning you don't think like the rest of the group. 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:41.680 Okay, but oftentimes I say that because the rest of 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.280 the group is white, and I'm in a newsroom and 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.320 you're trying to offer an opinion that all of them 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.920 agree on, and I'm sitting over here with a different 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.960 perspective based on my experience, and yes, and to that 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.320 degree and other ways as well. The group wants to do. 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:59.559 This, Okay, so listen, keep your mind open. 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.000 But this came a mind open. 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.640 This has just my jaw has dropped researching this, and 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.000 I feel like I understand you. I actually feel like 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:09.560 something clicked for me reading this. 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.120 And we have known each other over ten years, we 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.800 have been best friends, and now we are in wedded 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:18.480 bliss and you're telling me all it took was a 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:19.840 damn news article. 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.639 I'm telling you that's what it took. This is helping. Okay, 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.240 So you and I and I think everyone listening. Most 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:28.160 of us have had to take a personality test for 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:30.919 either a job interview. That's when I took my first one, 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.520 or sometimes just for fun. You see it online, and 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.520 so you're told in these personality tests whether or not 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:41.040 you're an extrovert or an introvert. I get extrovert every time. 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.720 I know that's shocking to so many people. And what 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:45.120 do you always end up with? 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:48.240 I remember us doing one in an episode. It was 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.120 an introvert exturaly, it was something else. 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.720 It's this think is the squib myers. But you got introvert? 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:58.040 Okay, you you yes, but it's weird. Nobody thinks I 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.520 am because I'm in front of a camera. I'm out there, 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:02.000 out of that. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.399 But not so wait for it. So this term outrovert, 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:06.000 by the way, I want to give credit where credit 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:10.560 is due, was recently coined by doctor Rami Kaminski. He 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.240 wrote a book this past year, The Gift of Not Belonging, 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:17.240 and he's a psychologist. He's got all these initials after 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:21.040 his name, and he went into this because he always 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:22.280 felt like an outsider. 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:24.880 So what you're saying to me is a new concept. 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.679 Yes, okay, it is a new concept, but it has 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:31.040 now gotten a lot of attention because it has resonated. 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:34.600 It has resonated with people who now identify like this 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.800 and people who love folks. So in this episode, we'll 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.120 talk about what it is to be an outrovert, and 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:45.360 then we'll talk about literally advice they give people who 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:49.960 love outroverts. It's so fascinating. Okay. So outroverts have a 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:55.720 unique relational style. They lean towards empathy and friendliness. Absolutely, 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.360 that's you, babe. Yet their sense of being out of 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.440 place and the dissonance between looking and acting like an 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.800 insider while feeling like an outsider is tiring. It leads 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.880 them to withdraw from some groups, and they prefer one 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:13.720 on one relationships because and they avoid unnecessary social obligations. 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:15.760 That is you would you not agree? 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.360 Uh? You said avoid unnecessary I'd avoid the necessary ones. 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.479 Sometimes I'll skip out on so yes. 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.640 Okay, all right, so this is also you. The difference 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:31.120 is that outroverts are more comfortable and skilled in social environments, 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.520 especially when those settings require leadership like a company party 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.320 or managing a birthday party. You are very good in 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:40.680 those settings. You know how to lead a group, you 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.080 know how to be social in specific settings, and you 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:45.600 do it well. You're very charismatic. 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.320 I missed something. Can you start that sensati again? 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.880 Uh, It says. The difference is that outroverts are often 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:57.160 more comfortable in skilled and skilled in social environments, especially 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:59.880 when those settings require expression of leadership. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.760 So we're good at doing something even though we don't 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:05.159 like being in the midst and doing it. 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:09.360 Yes, okay, yes, okay. So outrefferts are not antisocial, They're 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:16.280 not disengaged. They are often extremely observant, attuned, and sensitive 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:20.240 to social dynamics, but it can leave them feeling as 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.360 if they're always standing a step back. They can want 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:29.880 deep genuine connection while also feeling chronically unseen, misunderstood, or 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.600 dismissed in social groups. 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.840 I don't ever feel that okay in social groups. Right. 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.480 This is different from in social group. Say that last 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.520 sness again again, folks, I am learning this as you 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:43.440 all are, so give me that last sentence again. 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:49.640 They can want deep genuine connection while also feeling chronically unseen, misunderstood, 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.839 or dismissed in group settings. I think you have expressed 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:54.200 that to me. 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.040 I again, I'm thinking of a work setting. In a 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.000 social setting, I never feel that, and a social set 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:01.919 something I always feel like folks are trying to drag 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:03.719 me into things I don't want you to do. 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.560 Okay, that we'll address that. This is so good. Okay, 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.600 here's another thing. You're gonna laugh out loud more. Here's 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.920 some more. They give a lot of examples, and I've 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.240 read several different articles. This is so interesting on here's 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:17.800 some info on whether or not you may be an 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:22.520 an utrovert. Sorry, they are not joiners. They don't join 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:28.320 book clubs, spin classes, pta meetings, charity boards, group projects, 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.800 anything that thrives on one mind steering the collective. Utroverts 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:34.960 will not join. It is not in them. 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.800 One mind steering the collective. That's why I don't like 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:45.360 to go on vacation with groups. So you know, I refuse. 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:49.520 Sometimes I like Sabine, and that's it because I can 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:51.560 tell her what to do. I don't. 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:53.880 That's the okay, So you're coming around now to the 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:57.359 ultrovert thing. They also say that outroverts don't understand the 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:02.920 logic of sacrificing sacrificing a differentiated mind just to conform 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.360 to the hive. To them, that surrender of individuality is 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:08.920 the real heresy. In fact, they make a game of 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.080 staying at the freight edges of social groups and communal 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.920 thinking because they want to avoid the hive mind. They 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.760 do not understand that, but they can count close friends 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:19.800 on one hand. 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.920 Yes, that's probably pretty true for me. Then the hive 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:27.000 mind thing, that's a difficult thing for me. When you 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.880 see an entire group doing something that it will impact you, 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.160 that'll be wrong. We've just had this experience recently, and 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.680 that happens all the time. I need to disrupt this 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.239 because we're going to suffer for it in a month, 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.360 a year, or two years. But then I just get 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:45.640 exhausted and say, fuck it, y'all do your thing. I 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:45.960 do that. 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:49.080 Also, hearing you say that, I've never fully understood it. 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.840 And yes, we can talk about it on racial issues 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:53.760 and racial lines, and that makes sense to me, but 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.040 this takes it to a whole other level. I can't 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.120 wait to read to you this next take. This is 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:04.080 from a therapist, and he also now says, I, after 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.600 reading this research, I am an outrovert and So here's 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:07.840 what he said, and I want to see if this 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:12.720 resonates with you in anyone listening outrovert's strength lies in 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.080 refusing the gravitational pull of the group, even when it 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:20.400 costs them. He calls outraverse, meek rebels. It's never our 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.560 intention to rock the boat, but what must be done 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.760 will be done. If truth asks to be spoken, we 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.640 speak it. If a boundary needs to be held, we 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.400 hold it. Our rebellion isn't loud or showy, but it 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.800 is guided by an inner moral compass that remains unwavering. 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:39.840 In my case, this is what he said. I crossed 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.120 more than a few lines long before I knew I 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:44.680 was an otrovert. I got in trouble, often mostly for 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.480 pushing buttons that no one else dared to push. I 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:50.160 couldn't stop myself when it came to calling out hypocrisy, 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.080 questioning authority, sticking up for the underdog, or naming social 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.080 inequities that everyone else seemed willing to swallow. And in 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:00.240 my own life, I was typecast as the troublemaker or 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:01.920 the one who wouldn't play along. 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:09.920 Boom, you know what, I don't see that it sounds 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:15.360 as if you're almost an intentional rebel rouser. It sounds 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.560 like like I do this intentionally because I want to 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:20.800 shake things up or I can't sit idly by. Why 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.199 some I'm I'm gonna call out. I am not a 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.840 caller outer. I do not do it. It sounds like 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:27.360 he was hinting might be a little. 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.520 Bit more aggressive, But I feel like from a from 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.880 an ideological standpoint, that is how you operate. 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.920 Now, I will sit there quiet for whatever reason. If 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.080 I'm in a group, I will sit there quiet. Let 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.439 everybody do the thing. You know, this is my mindset 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.880 in uh group text change change. If you want to 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:47.839 make sure you never hear from me, put me in 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:48.600 a group text. 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.800 But that's exactly a note divert. That is, that is 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.840 exactly what they're talking about. And whereas someone like me, 0:09:55.280 --> 0:10:00.840 I will fully admit I seek validity or validation from 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:05.760 groups from a social experience. I want to be a 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.000 part of it, and I want to I seek validation. 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:08.800 You do not. 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.199 No, that's true. You talk about that with me all 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:12.680 the time. 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.800 And it's interesting being in a relationship with someone like 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:18.880 that because I operate in that sphere and you don't. 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.960 And so sometimes we are misaligned in our communication because 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.000 what I want you don't need, and so what I'm 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.800 giving like it does it is interesting, and so I 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.760 feel like this makes so much sense. Now I'm curious 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:35.440 what you think about this. A therapist went in and 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:40.920 actually tried to get to understand the mindset behind an otrovert, 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.480 and they say, you may have learned early on how 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:47.000 to read the room, adapt or stay slightly on guard. 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.000 Would you say that you did growing up well. 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.800 Again you as a black man again? You added it 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.040 in there. We learn how to adjust to whatever room 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.079 that we are in, and certainly when you do in 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.280 a big business. Yes, code switching is thing. 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.120 Okay, yes, all right, yes, all right. I don't know 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:06.200 how you feel about this, the childhood thing. I know 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.400 you hate going back trying to do, but most therapists do. 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.520 And okay, part of the work I've done as well. 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.280 This is what she says, what did my parents do 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:14.560 to me? 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:22.520 Come? Many otroverts come from growing up emotionally unseen, misunderstood, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:27.600 or needing to self contain parts of yourself to stay connected. 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.640 To others self contained, ever. 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:31.840 Feel emotionally unseen. 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.800 Blast man in America who has time in all seriousness. 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.880 That is not just a joke. I am this. It 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.160 sounds extreme, but think of all the shit I gotta 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.400 I gotta stop and think about my feelings. Who the 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:51.560 hell cares what a black man feels in America? That 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:55.120 is serious. Nobody. I learned very early on, shut the 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.839 fuck up. Nobody cares. You Gotta be excellent. This is 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.400 what Ambassador Young told me at the Paley Center. I 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.199 remember this moment just on the side. He said, man, 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.000 be excellent first, and then you can be as black 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:12.280 as you want to be. But you can't lead with 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:16.000 your blackness. Yes, so I in a racial setting. Yeah, 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.200 I mean absolutely so. This is interesting. So there is 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.959 obviously a psychological element of it. One hundred percent your 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.760 experience as a black man plays into this. That makes 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:30.920 sense to me. She said, your work is not about 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:32.800 becoming more social or being different than you are. 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.520 It's about finding spaces where you don't have to mask, bend, 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.040 or shape shift to feel understood. I feel like you've 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.000 said that to me before. 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:45.120 Weekly, Yes, daily, Yes, possibly. I always say that when 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.600 I am in my home, in my personal time, if 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.680 I have to put on in any way, it drives 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:53.800 me crazy and sometimes It has to do with who's 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.600 coming over, what friend group, how big of a crowd, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:58.199 who I got to be in front of, who I 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.280 have to spend time with, If I have to be 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.480 on guard in my personal time. It drives me. 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.320 But down see, it's interesting because that thought never comes 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.480 to my mind, Like I don't even consider that or 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:10.640 think about that. It could be my whiteness, Like I 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.360 get that, but this is fascinating stuff. All right. When 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.679 we come back, if TJ is an outrovert, if you're 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.560 an otrovert, if you love someone who's an otrovert, experts 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.880 have advice for anyone in a relationship with someone who 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.479 if this sounds familiar to you, is an otrovert. 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.479 All right, folks, we continue here on Amy and TJSON. 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.400 Screwy stuff was happening with our audio possibly there, but 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.720 hopefully you're back with us here. Yes, you're uh the 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.720 lessons here I some Yes, I would say eighty percent 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.520 of what you're saying with the ultrovert thing. Yeah, it 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:03.280 sounds about right, and it's weird that we yes, we're 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:05.600 I guess you have to find personnel, but we're always 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.520 trying to fit ourselves into something. He's this or he's that, 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:10.360 and now we give them a new option. 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.040 I think it helps with understanding who you are, and 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.120 it helps with a person who's in a relationship with 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.200 you under it because we are all built so differently, 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.440 our brains are wired so differently. It can be genetics, 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.240 but it can also be life experiences, whether it's in 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:29.560 your family dynamic or in your social dynamic, into what 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.200 you were born and it shapes how you react to 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.320 things and people and to yourself. And this just this 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.400 hit for me. This resonated with me reading this. It 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.440 helps me understand in a way that I sometimes I 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.600 couldn't understand, like why does that bother him so much? 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.240 Or why is this something he's focused on because it 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.800 wouldn't be anything I was focused on. This is so interesting. 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.880 Why haven't you just given me space to be myself? Okay, 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.800 so did you need a label? Did you need an article? 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.040 Did you need a therapist to write this? 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.880 I think it helps. I do. I do think it helps. 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.280 It helps because we are all so different and to 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.120 just to find something to work, I'm like, oh, I 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.880 get it. So okay, here's what therapists. I believe the 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.400 headline was what therapists are begging people who love outroverts 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.320 to remember, how about this one? I want to see 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.400 how you feel about all of these outroverts. Don't need 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.720 to be coaxed, fixed. 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:26.680 Or pulled closer, don't need to be what one like? 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.440 You know, hey, like, come on, come over here, do this? 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.520 Do this with me coaxed, fixed, or pulled closer? 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:38.040 You don't want that fixed or pulled closer. Certainly not coaxed. 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:42.160 You know better than that fixed. I don't know if 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:46.040 it's something in there about we don't ever someone feel 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.560 like like we do it on our own. I don't 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.280 know if that's a part of it. But to have 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.920 some outside help, like therapy is the thing I don't 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.160 necessarily came on board with for various reasons, but maybe 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.040 that plays into that. 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:02.400 All right. What helps the most when you're when you 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:08.440 love someone who's an otrovert is consistency, genuine curiosity, and 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:09.520 emotional presence. 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:11.680 What was the first one? 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:12.440 Consistency? 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:19.120 Man, Maybe we should continue this conversation off air, no, 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:21.800 with some of that thing. If you suggest, like, do 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:23.400 you give me all of those things? 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.600 That hearing that that is what you need gives me 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.320 a roadmap, you know, I've said to you, what do 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.320 you need? How can I help? And you're like, don't 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.360 make me nervous, But you always say it's not I don't. 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.640 It's not my job to tell you. So I always 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.360 feel like a little sometimes like I'm spinning. 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:41.720 Read the last thing again. 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:48.080 What helps most is consistency, genuine curiosity, and emotional presence. 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.040 That's not something those last two or not things. I 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.960 feel like it from almost anybody. And it might be 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:55.760 a case where people don't think I need that. People 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:57.440 are always trying to read or think I'm this, or 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.400 think I'm that, or but yeah, that's the if that's 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:02.880 something I need. I'm trying to think that's something I 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.960 can admit myself. What was it? Emotional presence? 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:08.000 Yes, And I think you have mentioned this to me, 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.040 like if I'm distracted, if I'm looking at my phone, 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.600 you get frustrated with me because I'm not emotionally present 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.639 for you, Like I do think that that is something 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:16.440 you have complained about to me, and I never kind 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.479 of put it in this place. And genuine curiosity when 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.159 you're upset. Oh yeah, I shouldn't defend, I shouldn't reflect, 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.440 I shouldn't tell you you're wrong or not. No, get 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:27.000 curious and I do know this intellectually. But that is 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:27.480 what you need. 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.320 But isn't that the basics of everybody? I don't find 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.719 that to be significant to an introvert. That's human behavior. 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:35.720 You want to be seen, you want to be heard, 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.560 you want somebody emotionally present, you want somebody paying attention 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.480 to you when you are explaining or you're hurt. 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:43.800 So that's that would be advice for anybody, But I 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.040 think you're saying specifically for people who are it's extra 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:51.600 important to them. Like I do think that this is 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.560 my favorite. Let them take up space at their own pace, 0:17:56.280 --> 0:18:00.399 listen without rushing to respond. They just need to be 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.639 met where they are. Damn, I need to like put 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:05.480 that up and frame it. 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.400 Why does that not apply to everybody? Isn't that base? 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.520 It's don't we all need and want that thing? You're 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:13.480 saying some needed more. 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.080 I think some needed more. Think about like you've observed 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.760 me and my family My daughter is like we interrupt 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.840 each other, we talk over each other where like we 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.800 get loud, and I don't take offense to any of 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:29.399 it because that's just like boom. You listen without rushing 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.840 to respond. That is not something I ever grew up doing. 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.719 You and I get why you need that, but I 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:37.720 haven't been around that. 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:44.000 Take it differently, Listen without rushing to respond is different 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.880 from when I see people all they're doing is wanting 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:51.840 themselves to be heard over. Talking is something people do 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.280 in every conversation, but when I see people who actually 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.840 are just I need to get this out. No matter what. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.000 You know what. You know this because you're a journalist. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:02.879 What is one of the biggest mistakes you make is 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.439 looking forward to the next question and not listening to 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:07.640 the last answer because you might miss the good shit 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.359 that is all. And I see that not happening with 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.840 a lot of people. Just you sometimes look at people 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.960 in conversations sometime and before somebody stops speaking, you see 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.840 the other person's mouth actually open up and they're just 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.840 waiting to jump in to say what they want to say. 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.000 That's a that's guilty of that. 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.040 I am so guilty of that. I struggle with that. 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:31.639 I have to fight my tendency to do that, and 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.080 I know it's not becoming, but I will fully admit that. 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.840 For me, it means you're not listening. For me, it 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.639 means wow. She I could actually finish this sentence by saying, Hey, 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:42.520 I'm going to go into the next room and I 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:44.920 am going to take a poop on your new sheets. 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.199 You wouldn't even hear it to go wait what you 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.120 would just start talking about whatever you're going to talk about. 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.919 I could say the most outlandish it's so true. So 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:56.560 it's that. So if that's an outrovert thing or excuse metrovert. 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.720 Yeah, outro yes, And for me, like, yes, it's annoying, 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.680 but it wouldn't feel as deeply offensive as it feels 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:03.600 to an introvert. And I get that. Let them take 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:07.639 up space at their own pace, listen without rushing to respond. 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:11.040 They just need to be met where they are. That 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.359 is such good advice. All right, Here's this is the 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:15.800 other thing. Some days they may want to stay at 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.240 the party until it ends, and other days they may 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.000 not want to go at all. There is nothing to fix. 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:25.879 The most helpful response is support, flexibility, and respect for 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:26.959 their changing needs. 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:33.280 Yeah, it's very rare that I want to stay for 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:35.440 the party. That's me or go. 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:38.520 Even last night I was like, should we get one more? 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:40.520 You're like, no, we should go to bed and I 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.000 need you in my life for a lot of reasons, 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.200 but definitely for that because I'm the one who will 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:47.480 stay way past the time. She should. 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:49.520 Look, we went hard last night. We did wait, I 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:53.000 mean we had folks that has dropped us off, like, hey, 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.160