1 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Sunday, February first, and are you 2 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: an introvert or an extrovert? You might be neither because 3 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: there is a new personality type that could possibly help 4 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: you understand yourself or your partner better. And with that, 5 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ, an episode 6 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: in which our relationship is about to be improved significantly. 7 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: Because you have been so excited about this damn story. 8 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: I don't know anything about it. Let me get that 9 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: out of the way. I don't even know what this 10 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: new personality type is. Please explain. 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 2: You're such an outrovert. Oh, it's a what otrovert? 12 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: That sounds That doesn't sound rightt otro How do you 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: spell otro. 14 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: Otro v e r t otrovert? 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: Is it fair to say, just based on what I'm hearing? 16 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: Is it in the middle of introvert extrovert or on 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: the one of the ends? 18 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: So it combines both, but it's its own. It's in 19 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: its own space because otro is Spanish for other and 20 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: otrovert means one who is facing a different direction. You 21 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: don't go with the group O trovert O trovert. You 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 2: often call yourself a disruptor. Do you not. 23 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,559 Speaker 1: No, I'm never a disruptor. I sit quietly in the corner. 24 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: I'm no, no, no, no. I Okay, here's the thing 25 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: that's true. 26 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 2: Everything you're saying actually reads with what we will explain. 27 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: What did you just say? I what do you say? 28 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: I say, I'm always disruptor? 29 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: I'm I'm the disruptor? Why am I always the disruptor? 30 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 2: Meaning you don't think like the rest of the group. 31 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: Okay, but oftentimes I say that because the rest of 32 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: the group is white, and I'm in a newsroom and 33 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: you're trying to offer an opinion that all of them 34 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: agree on, and I'm sitting over here with a different 35 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: perspective based on my experience, and yes, and to that 36 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: degree and other ways as well. The group wants to do. 37 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 2: This, Okay, so listen, keep your mind open. 38 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: But this came a mind open. 39 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 2: This has just my jaw has dropped researching this, and 40 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: I feel like I understand you. I actually feel like 41 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: something clicked for me reading this. 42 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: And we have known each other over ten years, we 43 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: have been best friends, and now we are in wedded 44 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: bliss and you're telling me all it took was a 45 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: damn news article. 46 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 2: I'm telling you that's what it took. This is helping. Okay, 47 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 2: So you and I and I think everyone listening. Most 48 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: of us have had to take a personality test for 49 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 2: either a job interview. That's when I took my first one, 50 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: or sometimes just for fun. You see it online, and 51 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: so you're told in these personality tests whether or not 52 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: you're an extrovert or an introvert. I get extrovert every time. 53 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: I know that's shocking to so many people. And what 54 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 2: do you always end up with? 55 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: I remember us doing one in an episode. It was 56 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: an introvert exturaly, it was something else. 57 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: It's this think is the squib myers. But you got introvert? 58 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: Okay, you you yes, but it's weird. Nobody thinks I 59 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: am because I'm in front of a camera. I'm out there, 60 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: out of that. 61 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 2: But not so wait for it. So this term outrovert, 62 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: by the way, I want to give credit where credit 63 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 2: is due, was recently coined by doctor Rami Kaminski. He 64 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: wrote a book this past year, The Gift of Not Belonging, 65 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 2: and he's a psychologist. He's got all these initials after 66 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: his name, and he went into this because he always 67 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: felt like an outsider. 68 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: So what you're saying to me is a new concept. 69 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,679 Speaker 2: Yes, okay, it is a new concept, but it has 70 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: now gotten a lot of attention because it has resonated. 71 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: It has resonated with people who now identify like this 72 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: and people who love folks. So in this episode, we'll 73 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 2: talk about what it is to be an outrovert, and 74 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: then we'll talk about literally advice they give people who 75 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: love outroverts. It's so fascinating. Okay. So outroverts have a 76 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: unique relational style. They lean towards empathy and friendliness. Absolutely, 77 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: that's you, babe. Yet their sense of being out of 78 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: place and the dissonance between looking and acting like an 79 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: insider while feeling like an outsider is tiring. It leads 80 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: them to withdraw from some groups, and they prefer one 81 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: on one relationships because and they avoid unnecessary social obligations. 82 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: That is you would you not agree? 83 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: Uh? You said avoid unnecessary I'd avoid the necessary ones. 84 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll skip out on so yes. 85 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, so this is also you. The difference 86 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: is that outroverts are more comfortable and skilled in social environments, 87 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 2: especially when those settings require leadership like a company party 88 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: or managing a birthday party. You are very good in 89 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 2: those settings. You know how to lead a group, you 90 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: know how to be social in specific settings, and you 91 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 2: do it well. You're very charismatic. 92 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: I missed something. Can you start that sensati again? 93 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: Uh, It says. The difference is that outroverts are often 94 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 2: more comfortable in skilled and skilled in social environments, especially 95 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: when those settings require expression of leadership. 96 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: So we're good at doing something even though we don't 97 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: like being in the midst and doing it. 98 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 2: Yes, okay, yes, okay. So outrefferts are not antisocial, They're 99 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 2: not disengaged. They are often extremely observant, attuned, and sensitive 100 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: to social dynamics, but it can leave them feeling as 101 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 2: if they're always standing a step back. They can want 102 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: deep genuine connection while also feeling chronically unseen, misunderstood, or 103 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 2: dismissed in social groups. 104 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: I don't ever feel that okay in social groups. Right. 105 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: This is different from in social group. Say that last 106 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: sness again again, folks, I am learning this as you 107 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: all are, so give me that last sentence again. 108 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: They can want deep genuine connection while also feeling chronically unseen, misunderstood, 109 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 2: or dismissed in group settings. I think you have expressed 110 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 2: that to me. 111 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: I again, I'm thinking of a work setting. In a 112 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: social setting, I never feel that, and a social set 113 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: something I always feel like folks are trying to drag 114 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: me into things I don't want you to do. 115 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: Okay, that we'll address that. This is so good. Okay, 116 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 2: here's another thing. You're gonna laugh out loud more. Here's 117 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 2: some more. They give a lot of examples, and I've 118 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: read several different articles. This is so interesting on here's 119 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 2: some info on whether or not you may be an 120 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: an utrovert. Sorry, they are not joiners. They don't join 121 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 2: book clubs, spin classes, pta meetings, charity boards, group projects, 122 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 2: anything that thrives on one mind steering the collective. Utroverts 123 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 2: will not join. It is not in them. 124 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: One mind steering the collective. That's why I don't like 125 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: to go on vacation with groups. So you know, I refuse. 126 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: Sometimes I like Sabine, and that's it because I can 127 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: tell her what to do. I don't. 128 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 2: That's the okay, So you're coming around now to the 129 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 2: ultrovert thing. They also say that outroverts don't understand the 130 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 2: logic of sacrificing sacrificing a differentiated mind just to conform 131 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 2: to the hive. To them, that surrender of individuality is 132 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 2: the real heresy. In fact, they make a game of 133 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 2: staying at the freight edges of social groups and communal 134 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 2: thinking because they want to avoid the hive mind. They 135 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 2: do not understand that, but they can count close friends 136 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 2: on one hand. 137 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: Yes, that's probably pretty true for me. Then the hive 138 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: mind thing, that's a difficult thing for me. When you 139 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: see an entire group doing something that it will impact you, 140 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: that'll be wrong. We've just had this experience recently, and 141 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: that happens all the time. I need to disrupt this 142 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,239 Speaker 1: because we're going to suffer for it in a month, 143 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: a year, or two years. But then I just get 144 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: exhausted and say, fuck it, y'all do your thing. I 145 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: do that. 146 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 2: Also, hearing you say that, I've never fully understood it. 147 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: And yes, we can talk about it on racial issues 148 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: and racial lines, and that makes sense to me, but 149 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 2: this takes it to a whole other level. I can't 150 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: wait to read to you this next take. This is 151 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: from a therapist, and he also now says, I, after 152 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 2: reading this research, I am an outrovert and So here's 153 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: what he said, and I want to see if this 154 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: resonates with you in anyone listening outrovert's strength lies in 155 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 2: refusing the gravitational pull of the group, even when it 156 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 2: costs them. He calls outraverse, meek rebels. It's never our 157 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: intention to rock the boat, but what must be done 158 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: will be done. If truth asks to be spoken, we 159 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: speak it. If a boundary needs to be held, we 160 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 2: hold it. Our rebellion isn't loud or showy, but it 161 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: is guided by an inner moral compass that remains unwavering. 162 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: In my case, this is what he said. I crossed 163 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: more than a few lines long before I knew I 164 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 2: was an otrovert. I got in trouble, often mostly for 165 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: pushing buttons that no one else dared to push. I 166 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 2: couldn't stop myself when it came to calling out hypocrisy, 167 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 2: questioning authority, sticking up for the underdog, or naming social 168 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 2: inequities that everyone else seemed willing to swallow. And in 169 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: my own life, I was typecast as the troublemaker or 170 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: the one who wouldn't play along. 171 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: Boom, you know what, I don't see that it sounds 172 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: as if you're almost an intentional rebel rouser. It sounds 173 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: like like I do this intentionally because I want to 174 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: shake things up or I can't sit idly by. Why 175 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: some I'm I'm gonna call out. I am not a 176 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: caller outer. I do not do it. It sounds like 177 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: he was hinting might be a little. 178 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: Bit more aggressive, But I feel like from a from 179 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 2: an ideological standpoint, that is how you operate. 180 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: Now, I will sit there quiet for whatever reason. If 181 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: I'm in a group, I will sit there quiet. Let 182 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 1: everybody do the thing. You know, this is my mindset 183 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: in uh group text change change. If you want to 184 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 1: make sure you never hear from me, put me in 185 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: a group text. 186 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 2: But that's exactly a note divert. That is, that is 187 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 2: exactly what they're talking about. And whereas someone like me, 188 00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 2: I will fully admit I seek validity or validation from 189 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: groups from a social experience. I want to be a 190 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 2: part of it, and I want to I seek validation. 191 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: You do not. 192 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: No, that's true. You talk about that with me all 193 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: the time. 194 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 2: And it's interesting being in a relationship with someone like 195 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 2: that because I operate in that sphere and you don't. 196 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 2: And so sometimes we are misaligned in our communication because 197 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 2: what I want you don't need, and so what I'm 198 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 2: giving like it does it is interesting, and so I 199 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: feel like this makes so much sense. Now I'm curious 200 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 2: what you think about this. A therapist went in and 201 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 2: actually tried to get to understand the mindset behind an otrovert, 202 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: and they say, you may have learned early on how 203 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 2: to read the room, adapt or stay slightly on guard. 204 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 2: Would you say that you did growing up well. 205 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: Again you as a black man again? You added it 206 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: in there. We learn how to adjust to whatever room 207 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: that we are in, and certainly when you do in 208 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: a big business. Yes, code switching is thing. 209 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 2: Okay, yes, all right, yes, all right. I don't know 210 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 2: how you feel about this, the childhood thing. I know 211 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 2: you hate going back trying to do, but most therapists do. 212 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 2: And okay, part of the work I've done as well. 213 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: This is what she says, what did my parents do 214 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: to me? 215 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 2: Come? Many otroverts come from growing up emotionally unseen, misunderstood, 216 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: or needing to self contain parts of yourself to stay connected. 217 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: To others self contained, ever. 218 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 2: Feel emotionally unseen. 219 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: Blast man in America who has time in all seriousness. 220 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: That is not just a joke. I am this. It 221 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: sounds extreme, but think of all the shit I gotta 222 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: I gotta stop and think about my feelings. Who the 223 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: hell cares what a black man feels in America? That 224 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: is serious. Nobody. I learned very early on, shut the 225 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 1: fuck up. Nobody cares. You Gotta be excellent. This is 226 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: what Ambassador Young told me at the Paley Center. I 227 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: remember this moment just on the side. He said, man, 228 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: be excellent first, and then you can be as black 229 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: as you want to be. But you can't lead with 230 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: your blackness. Yes, so I in a racial setting. Yeah, 231 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: I mean absolutely so. This is interesting. So there is 232 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: obviously a psychological element of it. One hundred percent your 233 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: experience as a black man plays into this. That makes 234 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: sense to me. She said, your work is not about 235 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: becoming more social or being different than you are. 236 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 2: It's about finding spaces where you don't have to mask, bend, 237 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 2: or shape shift to feel understood. I feel like you've 238 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 2: said that to me before. 239 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: Weekly, Yes, daily, Yes, possibly. I always say that when 240 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: I am in my home, in my personal time, if 241 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: I have to put on in any way, it drives 242 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: me crazy and sometimes It has to do with who's 243 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: coming over, what friend group, how big of a crowd, 244 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 1: who I got to be in front of, who I 245 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: have to spend time with, If I have to be 246 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: on guard in my personal time. It drives me. 247 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: But down see, it's interesting because that thought never comes 248 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: to my mind, Like I don't even consider that or 249 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 2: think about that. It could be my whiteness, Like I 250 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: get that, but this is fascinating stuff. All right. When 251 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 2: we come back, if TJ is an outrovert, if you're 252 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 2: an otrovert, if you love someone who's an otrovert, experts 253 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: have advice for anyone in a relationship with someone who 254 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,479 Speaker 2: if this sounds familiar to you, is an otrovert. 255 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,479 Speaker 1: All right, folks, we continue here on Amy and TJSON. 256 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: Screwy stuff was happening with our audio possibly there, but 257 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: hopefully you're back with us here. Yes, you're uh the 258 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: lessons here I some Yes, I would say eighty percent 259 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: of what you're saying with the ultrovert thing. Yeah, it 260 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: sounds about right, and it's weird that we yes, we're 261 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: I guess you have to find personnel, but we're always 262 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: trying to fit ourselves into something. He's this or he's that, 263 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: and now we give them a new option. 264 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: I think it helps with understanding who you are, and 265 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: it helps with a person who's in a relationship with 266 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: you under it because we are all built so differently, 267 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: our brains are wired so differently. It can be genetics, 268 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 2: but it can also be life experiences, whether it's in 269 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 2: your family dynamic or in your social dynamic, into what 270 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 2: you were born and it shapes how you react to 271 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: things and people and to yourself. And this just this 272 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 2: hit for me. This resonated with me reading this. It 273 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 2: helps me understand in a way that I sometimes I 274 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: couldn't understand, like why does that bother him so much? 275 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 2: Or why is this something he's focused on because it 276 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 2: wouldn't be anything I was focused on. This is so interesting. 277 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: Why haven't you just given me space to be myself? Okay, 278 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: so did you need a label? Did you need an article? 279 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: Did you need a therapist to write this? 280 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 2: I think it helps. I do. I do think it helps. 281 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 2: It helps because we are all so different and to 282 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 2: just to find something to work, I'm like, oh, I 283 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 2: get it. So okay, here's what therapists. I believe the 284 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 2: headline was what therapists are begging people who love outroverts 285 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 2: to remember, how about this one? I want to see 286 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 2: how you feel about all of these outroverts. Don't need 287 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 2: to be coaxed, fixed. 288 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: Or pulled closer, don't need to be what one like? 289 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 2: You know, hey, like, come on, come over here, do this? 290 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 2: Do this with me coaxed, fixed, or pulled closer? 291 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: You don't want that fixed or pulled closer. Certainly not coaxed. 292 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: You know better than that fixed. I don't know if 293 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: it's something in there about we don't ever someone feel 294 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: like like we do it on our own. I don't 295 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: know if that's a part of it. But to have 296 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: some outside help, like therapy is the thing I don't 297 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: necessarily came on board with for various reasons, but maybe 298 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: that plays into that. 299 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 2: All right. What helps the most when you're when you 300 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 2: love someone who's an otrovert is consistency, genuine curiosity, and 301 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 2: emotional presence. 302 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: What was the first one? 303 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: Consistency? 304 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: Man, Maybe we should continue this conversation off air, no, 305 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: with some of that thing. If you suggest, like, do 306 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: you give me all of those things? 307 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 2: That hearing that that is what you need gives me 308 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: a roadmap, you know, I've said to you, what do 309 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 2: you need? How can I help? And you're like, don't 310 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 2: make me nervous, But you always say it's not I don't. 311 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 2: It's not my job to tell you. So I always 312 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 2: feel like a little sometimes like I'm spinning. 313 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: Read the last thing again. 314 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 2: What helps most is consistency, genuine curiosity, and emotional presence. 315 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: That's not something those last two or not things. I 316 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: feel like it from almost anybody. And it might be 317 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: a case where people don't think I need that. People 318 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: are always trying to read or think I'm this, or 319 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: think I'm that, or but yeah, that's the if that's 320 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: something I need. I'm trying to think that's something I 321 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: can admit myself. What was it? Emotional presence? 322 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 2: Yes, And I think you have mentioned this to me, 323 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: like if I'm distracted, if I'm looking at my phone, 324 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 2: you get frustrated with me because I'm not emotionally present 325 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 2: for you, Like I do think that that is something 326 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 2: you have complained about to me, and I never kind 327 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,479 Speaker 2: of put it in this place. And genuine curiosity when 328 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 2: you're upset. Oh yeah, I shouldn't defend, I shouldn't reflect, 329 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 2: I shouldn't tell you you're wrong or not. No, get 330 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 2: curious and I do know this intellectually. But that is 331 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 2: what you need. 332 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: But isn't that the basics of everybody? I don't find 333 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,719 Speaker 1: that to be significant to an introvert. That's human behavior. 334 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: You want to be seen, you want to be heard, 335 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: you want somebody emotionally present, you want somebody paying attention 336 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: to you when you are explaining or you're hurt. 337 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 2: So that's that would be advice for anybody, But I 338 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 2: think you're saying specifically for people who are it's extra 339 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 2: important to them. Like I do think that this is 340 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 2: my favorite. Let them take up space at their own pace, 341 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 2: listen without rushing to respond. They just need to be 342 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 2: met where they are. Damn, I need to like put 343 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 2: that up and frame it. 344 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: Why does that not apply to everybody? Isn't that base? 345 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: It's don't we all need and want that thing? You're 346 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: saying some needed more. 347 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 2: I think some needed more. Think about like you've observed 348 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 2: me and my family My daughter is like we interrupt 349 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 2: each other, we talk over each other where like we 350 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 2: get loud, and I don't take offense to any of 351 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 2: it because that's just like boom. You listen without rushing 352 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 2: to respond. That is not something I ever grew up doing. 353 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 2: You and I get why you need that, but I 354 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 2: haven't been around that. 355 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: Take it differently, Listen without rushing to respond is different 356 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: from when I see people all they're doing is wanting 357 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: themselves to be heard over. Talking is something people do 358 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: in every conversation, but when I see people who actually 359 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: are just I need to get this out. No matter what. 360 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: You know what. You know this because you're a journalist. 361 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: What is one of the biggest mistakes you make is 362 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 1: looking forward to the next question and not listening to 363 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: the last answer because you might miss the good shit 364 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: that is all. And I see that not happening with 365 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: a lot of people. Just you sometimes look at people 366 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: in conversations sometime and before somebody stops speaking, you see 367 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: the other person's mouth actually open up and they're just 368 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: waiting to jump in to say what they want to say. 369 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: That's a that's guilty of that. 370 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 2: I am so guilty of that. I struggle with that. 371 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 2: I have to fight my tendency to do that, and 372 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: I know it's not becoming, but I will fully admit that. 373 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: For me, it means you're not listening. For me, it 374 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: means wow. She I could actually finish this sentence by saying, Hey, 375 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to go into the next room and I 376 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: am going to take a poop on your new sheets. 377 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: You wouldn't even hear it to go wait what you 378 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: would just start talking about whatever you're going to talk about. 379 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: I could say the most outlandish it's so true. So 380 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: it's that. So if that's an outrovert thing or excuse metrovert. 381 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, outro yes, And for me, like, yes, it's annoying, 382 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 2: but it wouldn't feel as deeply offensive as it feels 383 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 2: to an introvert. And I get that. Let them take 384 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 2: up space at their own pace, listen without rushing to respond. 385 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 2: They just need to be met where they are. That 386 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 2: is such good advice. All right, Here's this is the 387 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: other thing. Some days they may want to stay at 388 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 2: the party until it ends, and other days they may 389 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 2: not want to go at all. There is nothing to fix. 390 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 2: The most helpful response is support, flexibility, and respect for 391 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:26,959 Speaker 2: their changing needs. 392 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very rare that I want to stay for 393 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: the party. That's me or go. 394 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 2: Even last night I was like, should we get one more? 395 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 2: You're like, no, we should go to bed and I 396 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: need you in my life for a lot of reasons, 397 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: but definitely for that because I'm the one who will 398 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 2: stay way past the time. She should. 399 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: Look, we went hard last night. We did wait, I 400 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: mean we had folks that has dropped us off, like, hey, 401 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: y'all go to bed. We gotta get out here. So no, 402 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: but I I am just not a I don't because 403 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: so many robes, parties and events and whatnot are end 404 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: up being obligations for me. Even if this is not 405 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: my party, I'm not speaking on stage, I end up 406 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: sitting in a position where I need to entertain. I 407 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: need to be on. That's the word I use all 408 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: the time if anything puts me in a position I 409 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: feel like I need to be on. I don't want 410 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: to go there. 411 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 2: I just maybe I understand you now, like a new level, 412 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 2: a new level of understanding. 413 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, so yeah, No. 414 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 2: I was gonna say, By the way, if you are curious, 415 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 2: if you're an otrovert, if any of this or someone 416 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 2: you know is, you can AC should take a quiz. 417 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 2: You should do this. It's a www. Dot Otherness Institute 418 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 2: dot com. So O T H E R N E 419 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 2: S s I N S T I t U t E. 420 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 2: Otherness Institute dot Com. I made it more confusing by 421 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 2: trying to spell it out. Just my apologies, Institute dot Com. 422 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 2: Maybe we're about to get on a plane. Maybe you 423 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 2: should take the quiz on the plane. That'll be interesting. 424 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: Why I've already just you already told me what I 425 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: am and who I am, and what I'm about, what 426 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: I feel, what I should think. Yeah, I'm covered. 427 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 2: Just trying to meet you where you are, bab. 428 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: Typical, all right, folks, we always appreciate she was so 429 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: excited about this. I'm so glad we got this in 430 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: So I hope your relationship is improved now that you 431 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: understand your mate after reading one freaking article. And with that, 432 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 1: we always appreciate she hanging with us on DJ Holmes 433 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: on behalf of my dear, dear lovely Extroverted Amy Robot. 434 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: We'll talk to you, als,