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Speaker 1: Yeah, Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene

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Speaker 1: Jay Leye. We bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment,

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Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg. The

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Speaker 1: story is just the data. Globally, it's fantastic, whether it's

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Speaker 1: the United States, Europe or Asia. Couldn't get much better.

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Speaker 1: John Sylvia Wells, Fargo Chief Economists, joins us now here

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Speaker 1: in New York City. John, always great to catch up

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Speaker 1: with you. Thank you. Is this peak growth? Can it

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Speaker 1: get any better? Oh? I think that peak growth for

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Speaker 1: this year eighteen, But I don't think it gets better

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Speaker 1: and it's not sustainable going into I think you've got

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Speaker 1: a big jump here. You've got a good would gain equipment. Uh,

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Speaker 1: spending in the United States housing starts has improved. Also

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Speaker 1: in the United States, and as you just mentioned, Uh,

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Speaker 1: the European economies have surprised US in the last year,

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Speaker 1: and they continue to surprise us, but they will settle

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Speaker 1: down to a more longer term trend. But it is

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Speaker 1: good to see those positives. John, What do you see

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Speaker 1: is more sustainable. What's happening in Europe or what is

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Speaker 1: happening in the United States. Well, I think for more sustainable,

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Speaker 1: I would go with Europe. I think there there have

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Speaker 1: been some changes there. They continue to do fundamental reform

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Speaker 1: for different nations, and I think they've got their story together.

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Speaker 1: With respect to trade, I am more concerned Jonathan with trade,

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Speaker 1: as Tom and I had discussed earlier today. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: what are we actually going to do to NAFTA? Do

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Speaker 1: we understand the importance of naftal the United States? So

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Speaker 1: I like the European sustainability. Do you see reason for

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Speaker 1: that to be enthusiasm in the equity market? With the

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Speaker 1: Dow set to go through twenty five thousand today for

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Speaker 1: the first time ever, the SMP northred yesterday for the

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Speaker 1: first time ever, we keep grinding our old time highs.

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Speaker 1: Does it make sense to you, John right now? It

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Speaker 1: does because you've gotten changes in fiscal policy, You've got

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Speaker 1: the p M I s that have done really well,

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Speaker 1: sustainable gains and employment means the consumer continues to move forward,

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Speaker 1: and you have relative peace in the world. Good morning, everyone,

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Speaker 1: John farre and time Keene thrilled you with us and

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Speaker 1: We've got some really constructive news here. This is the

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Speaker 1: micro news. It's made John Sylvia's career in particularly with

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Speaker 1: his work of the National Association for Business and Pharmaceutical Economics.

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Speaker 1: Walgreens Boots. What's boots? John Boots is um like Dwayne

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Speaker 1: read here. Okay, so it's like British Walens. Yes, so

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Speaker 1: you go and you can buy like what you need

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Speaker 1: for the bathroom to have a wash and brush your teeth.

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Speaker 1: I just had the December teeth brush. Walgreens Boots out

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Speaker 1: with important numbers and in the one headline and want

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Speaker 1: to with their upgrade the one headline, I want to

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Speaker 1: mention John Sylvia, which folds into your economics reach l

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Speaker 1: Pharmacy comp sales four point seven percent, which is away

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Speaker 1: from fed mombo jumbo nominal g d P shows corporate

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Speaker 1: indications of picking up absolutely and for a traveler who

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Speaker 1: does go to London least twice a year, Boots is

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Speaker 1: essential for all those little things. Honestly, Boots fantastic, Tom,

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Speaker 1: It is fantastic. When I go into the airport at

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Speaker 1: JFK and I don't see a Boots. There is a

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Speaker 1: Boot to every airport in the UK and it's got everything.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for that important information, Mr Fer. But it

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Speaker 1: shows you consumer strength. That's what it's telling you. That

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Speaker 1: people are going into those stores and actually communing things ahead.

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Speaker 1: So I'm working with Dr hass In, the President of

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Speaker 1: United States, and I'm saying, all this doom and gloom,

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Speaker 1: look at the animal spirit. How much bigger will the

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Speaker 1: animal spirit be? Do we go from the gloom of

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Speaker 1: four percent nominal GDP? Can you get to a six

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Speaker 1: percent nominal? I can't get get to six percent, and

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Speaker 1: maybe someone else can get there. The President would do that. Wow,

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Speaker 1: But I'll give you a two and a half percent

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Speaker 1: g d P. Let's say a year from now, and

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Speaker 1: I'll give you two two and a quarter percent, So

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Speaker 1: maybe four four and a half to five is a

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Speaker 1: six percent is a little bit too. But these corporate Honeywell,

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Speaker 1: Walgreens and many others, I'm beginning to see the lift

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Speaker 1: and you know organic absolutely yeah, I mean we can

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Speaker 1: see that. For the last four or five years, it's

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Speaker 1: been economic growth around to two and a quarter and

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Speaker 1: now we're moving up to two and a half maybe

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Speaker 1: two and three quoters. That's great. Give us a briefing

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Speaker 1: before we go to Jim blast One and Bill Gross Tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: Dr Sylvia give us a briefing on what we need

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Speaker 1: to know about the immediacy of wage growth. Our wages

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Speaker 1: actually going up adjusted for inflation. Yes, that's a point

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Speaker 1: point time that's overlooked. It's real wages. But total real

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Speaker 1: compensation has really improved because once again people care about

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Speaker 1: their benefits, particularly healthcare benefit. Company station is not part

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Speaker 1: of the unemployment number. That's plain to our audience. How

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Speaker 1: that's published, Well, it's published again by the federal government

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Speaker 1: in the United States, but it takes into consideration the pensions,

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Speaker 1: takes into considerate healthcare, life insurance, disability insurance, all those

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Speaker 1: other things that Tom are not taxed. So the wages

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Speaker 1: attacks and workers have realized over the last three or

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Speaker 1: forty years, if I'm getting the compensation through insurance that

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Speaker 1: is not tax then my total income actually goes up.

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Speaker 1: It's a really good point, John. Before we let you go,

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Speaker 1: can we get to the economics of cold weather. It's

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Speaker 1: snowing outside. Tom doesn't want to talk about the hysteria.

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Speaker 1: But Q one after Q one, after Q one after

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Speaker 1: Q one in the United States of America, we have

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Speaker 1: had soft growth after soft growth, and economists continually missed

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Speaker 1: the story to your important observation, what we have around

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Speaker 1: at John Farroll is a big asterisk every first quarter.

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Speaker 1: And are you it wasn't like that. Now we've got

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Speaker 1: this and it feels like we're going to do it

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Speaker 1: all over again, and we are. How many economists, including yourself, John,

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Speaker 1: are going to come out of the next couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks and say with downgrade and knock Q one estimates

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Speaker 1: because of the weather. I would say the majority will

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Speaker 1: again because this again, when you're impacting New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 1: southern New England, that is a huge economic powerhouse in

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Speaker 1: the United States. You know, as as Tom was mentioning earlier,

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Speaker 1: if you have an earthquake in San Francisco, that's a

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Speaker 1: minor earthquake, okay, but if it's significant, that economic impact

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Speaker 1: is significant. We got one minute left with you. No

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Speaker 1: one cares about this. How did the Boston Red Sox

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Speaker 1: respond to the New York Yankees? The Yankees have going

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Speaker 1: to Aaron Judge is gonna lead off. They've got this

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Speaker 1: guy from Miami, this piece of meat from Miami. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna win a hundred and forty baseball games. How does

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Speaker 1: Team Red Sox respond? Uh? Pitch around the opening Uh?

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Speaker 1: Eight intentional walks per game? Eight intentional walks per game?

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Speaker 1: Just walk them and deal with all the rest of

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Speaker 1: the line up. You don't see any strategic thing like

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Speaker 1: in a case of there against lager beer or anything.

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Speaker 1: Now he's coming back, is coming back. It's coming entrepreneurial

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Speaker 1: spirit of New England, right, John Sylvia, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: With Wills Fargo now living in the Carolina is our

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Speaker 1: last conversation with the amble from Toughs Lector School was

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Speaker 1: most distressing. James Tavitis has been a student of our Navy,

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Speaker 1: of our military, and now teaches students on international relations

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Speaker 1: at Tufts. Admiral stevinus, wonderful to have you with us

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Speaker 1: this morning. Our men are in danger, or sailors are

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Speaker 1: in danger? Are women are in danger? Off boost on

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Speaker 1: South Korea? Where it's a chilly thirty five degrees this morning.

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Speaker 1: We've got boats out at sea, UH doing what our

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Speaker 1: military show the flag, et cetera. How damaged are they

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Speaker 1: by the silliness the discourse of Washington? I think they

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Speaker 1: are able to tune it out. Tom and that's kind

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Speaker 1: of the good news. First of all, particularly our worships

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Speaker 1: at sea. Uh, don't gather around and watch CNN seven.

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Speaker 1: They're so busy. They've got contacts in the ocean around them,

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Speaker 1: they've got planes overhead, they're tracking missile flying. They are

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Speaker 1: not focused on Washington. And if they did, I think

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Speaker 1: they would still tune it out because they have that

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Speaker 1: kind of ethos that says, we're out here, we stand

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Speaker 1: on the wall to protect our nation. We're not going

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Speaker 1: to get caught up in the day to day. So

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Speaker 1: on that score, I feel pretty good. Give us your

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Speaker 1: update on the adult nous of the adults our General Kelly,

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Speaker 1: our General Madis, and other adults of Washington doing this morning.

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Speaker 1: Uh Well, I would say on a scale of one

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Speaker 1: to ten, they have a job that's about a thirteen.

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Speaker 1: This is a tough operation to effectively put guard rails

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Speaker 1: around a presidency that is too impulsive, too erratic, too unpredictable.

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Speaker 1: I would say they're still in the game, particularly the

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Speaker 1: two you mentioned or four star US Marine Corps. General's

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Speaker 1: seen a lot of combat. Uh, you know, they've seen worse.

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Speaker 1: They'll they'll stay with the program. We also ought to

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Speaker 1: be concerned about three star General hr McMaster national Security Advisor.

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Speaker 1: He's just done a very good job getting out a

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Speaker 1: new national security strategy which is actually shockingly shockingly normal.

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Speaker 1: So I think that team is doing pretty well. The

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Speaker 1: one to watch that I'm worried about is Rex Tillerson

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Speaker 1: over at State. I think his stock is very low.

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Speaker 1: I think his morale is very low. I know his

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Speaker 1: department's morale is very low. I suspect we'll see that

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Speaker 1: change earlier this year. And I'm really you worried about

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Speaker 1: Rex Titterson, the Secretary of State? Are you worried about

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Speaker 1: the State Department? The latter um secretaries come and go.

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Speaker 1: The department is a generational operation. You have to bring

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Speaker 1: in young foreign service officers who are willing to devote

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Speaker 1: themselves for ten twenty thirty years to create that cadre

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Speaker 1: of professional ambassadors. At the far end, the State Department

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Speaker 1: is down fifty five zero percent in applications this year.

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Speaker 1: That's shocking. There is a concern that the State Department

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Speaker 1: is being gutted. There's a lot being written about it

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Speaker 1: and reported about it over the last twelve months. Key

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Speaker 1: individuals that should be in key areas of the world

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Speaker 1: representing the United States no longer there animal. What are

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Speaker 1: the consequences of that? Are they immediate? Are they around

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Speaker 1: the corner or they slow burning over several decades. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're all three and I'll give you a practical example

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Speaker 1: of each. In the immediate term. What this does is

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Speaker 1: it overweights us in the military instrument. Believe me, We've

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Speaker 1: got all the generals and admirals we need um. If

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Speaker 1: we don't have ambassadors to kind of put balance, our

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Speaker 1: program overweights towards hard power in the if you will,

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Speaker 1: medium term, we don't have the expertise on the ground.

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Speaker 1: In the long term diplomatic efforts in the Balkans, in Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: and long term, as I said, we lose that cadre

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Speaker 1: of professional ambassadors twenty thirty years from now. So I'm

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Speaker 1: very worried about State Department and Stavids. Were you ever

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Speaker 1: on a p T boat. I never was assigned to

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Speaker 1: the crew of one time, but of course I've been

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Speaker 1: on the many many times all over, particularly in the

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Speaker 1: Caribbean for example, doing counter narcotics. I mean, folks, that

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Speaker 1: it resonates so much. Of course, with President Kennedy, I

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Speaker 1: think of a close quarters p T boats in the

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Speaker 1: United States Navy. Robert bots a classic text Admiral Stevidez.

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Speaker 1: Here's the latest tweet I guess on p T boats

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Speaker 1: by the President United States. Well, all of the failed

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Speaker 1: quote experts on quote, he doesn't mention you animal weighing in?

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Speaker 1: Does anybody really believe that talks and dialogues would be

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Speaker 1: going on between North and South Korea right now if

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Speaker 1: I wasn't firm, strong and willing to commit our total

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Speaker 1: quote might unquote against the North fools? But talks are

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Speaker 1: a good thing. What is what is an amateur like

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Speaker 1: Tom Keane or President Trump or John Ferrell? What do

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Speaker 1: we know about? Might you lived it? What? What is

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Speaker 1: the might of our military? How would you lecture civilians? Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I think this is part of the

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Speaker 1: pattern of a president who thinks he's the reason that

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Speaker 1: airlines are not crashing out of the sky. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: just he is living in a fantasy world. And I

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Speaker 1: would say that the might of the United States is

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Speaker 1: certainly part of this. But the real driver of the

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Speaker 1: chain of events were in the middle of is Kim

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Speaker 1: Jong Hunt And he is the one that is step

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Speaker 1: or two ahead of US tactically. So I think the

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Speaker 1: president ought to get some balance in his rhetoric, rely

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Speaker 1: on the professional US around him, build a coherent deterrent,

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Speaker 1: you cyber offensively, put up maritime interception operations. He's done

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Speaker 1: none of that um so far. What we see as

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Speaker 1: a chain of events driven by a young, unpredictable dictator

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Speaker 1: in the North. In our own unpredictable president needs to

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Speaker 1: up his game if we're going to succeed diplomatically in

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Speaker 1: resolving this. John, and on the plane flight back from

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Speaker 1: the Old World, thank you British Air for the great flight.

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Speaker 1: I watched one of the recent Churchill epics yea, and

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Speaker 1: there was Churchill being lectured by the general from the

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Speaker 1: United States in a kind way, Dwight David Eisenhower about

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Speaker 1: excuse me, sir, you're a civilian. I mean, John Ferroll.

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Speaker 1: This this is not just about America now, its every institution,

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Speaker 1: about the world response and global institutions. But Adam Well,

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Speaker 1: you've touched on something really important, and that's the overweight

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Speaker 1: of hard power, the over dependence on hard power. Is

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Speaker 1: this an administration that you think fails to understand seft

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Speaker 1: power or is it an administration that has said, well,

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Speaker 1: it hasn't worked for the last twenty years to deal

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Speaker 1: with the threat of North Korea, so why should we

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Speaker 1: continue down this path? I think the former John and

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Speaker 1: if we think about where we've used the mix of

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Speaker 1: hard and soft power, that's where we succeed. And that's

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Speaker 1: the subtlety that this administration thus far has not grasped.

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Speaker 1: For example, in the Balkans, we use hard power initially,

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Speaker 1: but it's been soft power, the economics, the private public partnering,

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Speaker 1: the development aid that's brought to Balkans where it is

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Speaker 1: same in Columbia for example, same in Sri Lanka. It's

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Speaker 1: that balance of hard and soft power in that Back

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Speaker 1: to your earlier question is why worry about a lack

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Speaker 1: of the State Department in the case of the United States,

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Speaker 1: where we don't have influencers who drive us towards balancing

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Speaker 1: hard power when you need it, but soft power for

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Speaker 1: the long came to win. In the scenario, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: assume it's not the Philippines. You're not going to line

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Speaker 1: up the Missouri sixty miles offshore of North Korea and

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Speaker 1: bombom what is a quote unquote might attack that the

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Speaker 1: President would envision. I mean, how do you attack North Korea?

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Speaker 1: I don't understand tactically, how do you attack You cannot

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Speaker 1: conduct an attack that does not escalate into a war

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Speaker 1: on the peninsula, which will cause at a minimum a

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Speaker 1: million but somewhere in the range of two to four

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Speaker 1: million casualty stomp. And that's because of the geography where

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Speaker 1: Soul sits right under the guns of North Korea, and

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Speaker 1: because we have a dictator in the North who already

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Speaker 1: has tactical nuclear weapons that he can use in the

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Speaker 1: immediate context of the conflict. So any kind of military

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Speaker 1: response is highly, highly fraught. Edmill, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Here into the lecture, unlike this morning with animals, David,

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Speaker 1: is the Tufts in the Fletcher School, m Let's said.

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Speaker 1: The longest joint is now port folio manager over at

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Speaker 1: Oppenheimer Funds. As we see, what did you say, Tompson

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Speaker 1: Warmth on the tape future is positive at five points

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Speaker 1: on the SMP five Dow futures up a six twenty

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Speaker 1: five K and site nor hundred on the SMP five

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Speaker 1: hundred yesterday, Alessio, is this as good as it gets?

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Speaker 1: With the data on both sides of the Atlantic looking

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Speaker 1: very very nice Good morning, Tom and John. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: mean we we couldn't wish for a better global economic outlook.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've seen the recent data literally over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of days, especially with the business services such

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Speaker 1: as the p mzing IM survey, really suggesting a continuation

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Speaker 1: of this very strong momentum in the development markets. But

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Speaker 1: also we're seeing good news in the emerging world. So

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Speaker 1: we continue to see what looks like the best global

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Speaker 1: growth synchronization, the best global growth acceleration we have seen

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Speaker 1: in over a decade, So peak growth. When we start

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Speaker 1: talking about peak growth, that that's a very important point

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Speaker 1: because we m we begin to see, particularly in the

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Speaker 1: US UM the flattening of the yield curve um which

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Speaker 1: and we're very early stages, but that's flattening of the

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Speaker 1: yield curve. Is a reminder, of course that the FED

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Speaker 1: has been tightening rates now for a while. I'll date

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Speaker 1: at the at a gradual pace. I think it's still

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Speaker 1: early to talk about growth peak. We we seem to

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Speaker 1: be in a solid fooding throughout the first half of

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Speaker 1: the year, and you know, of course the economy always

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Speaker 1: go through some some soft patches, but I think we

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Speaker 1: we can't really start worrying about a serious downturn for

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Speaker 1: at least at least another year. What is your calling dollar?

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's really a way from your remit, but

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Speaker 1: I want to go there. I mean, you look at

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Speaker 1: dollar dynamics and and John and I saw a lot

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Speaker 1: of different opinions at the end of the year. Is

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Speaker 1: it a flow story with money flowing into Euro money

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Speaker 1: flowing into the American system as well? Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: the dollar question is is a particularly interesting one given

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Speaker 1: the anomalies that we've seen last year, that we expect

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Speaker 1: a dollar to continue to UH, to continue the weakening

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Speaker 1: trend that has experienced in sev outbet maybe at a

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Speaker 1: more gradual pace and some more rangebound price dynamics. But

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Speaker 1: why that dollar weakening? Because the first question is why

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Speaker 1: is the dollar weakening when the FED is raising rates? UH.

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Speaker 1: There has been almost an unprecedented disconnect between rate differentials

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Speaker 1: and currency performance, and you see it particularly with the

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Speaker 1: euro last year. We expect that to continue somewhat. This

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Speaker 1: environment is very reminiscent to me of what we saw

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Speaker 1: in the early two thousands, say two thousand, two, two

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Speaker 1: and four, where despite the FED raising rates and the

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Speaker 1: c B not raising rates the or of strengthen the

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Speaker 1: dollar weekend. Why we are seeing that late cycle dynamics

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Speaker 1: for the US where the current account differential between the

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Speaker 1: US and the Eurozone is extremely wide. The Eurozone and

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Speaker 1: Japan have very wide current account surpluses. And and those

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Speaker 1: are some of the structural flows that you Tom are

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Speaker 1: referring to, some of the structural frows in the background

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Speaker 1: that are supporting UH foreign currencies. On top of it,

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Speaker 1: we believe that the biggest driver of capital flows will

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Speaker 1: be the equity side. We continued to expect our performance

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Speaker 1: of European and emerging market growth versus US growth, and

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Speaker 1: that typically leads US capital US investors to deploy capital

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Speaker 1: into foreign markets, which we know is typically unheedged unless

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a point where bond market dynamics really

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Speaker 1: and abruptly folds into stock market dynamics. Review for US,

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Speaker 1: how does that work? Rising yield? How does it fold

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Speaker 1: into stock market effects? UM? I would say there's a

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Speaker 1: two three channels here to to keep in mind, there

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Speaker 1: is the the and and bond markets effect equity markets

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Speaker 1: with a with a long UM lead UH. The The

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Speaker 1: first and most important channel in my opinion is the

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Speaker 1: is the tightening of financial conditions that is represented the

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Speaker 1: first and foremost by the flattening of the yolker. Right,

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Speaker 1: so as the as the yelker flattens gradually that these

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Speaker 1: incentivizes the banks from credit creation over time. Right, they

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Speaker 1: borrow in the short end and they land at the

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Speaker 1: long end of plus a credit spread. As as the

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Speaker 1: availability of the term premium over time in the long

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Speaker 1: term um gets reduced. Banks of course have less of

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Speaker 1: an incentive to to land, to extend credit, and most

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Speaker 1: importantly in some cases, to even roll over credit. So

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Speaker 1: what happens is then towards the end of the cycle,

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Speaker 1: if banks stopped rolling over their credit, highly level companies UH,

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Speaker 1: towards the end of the cycle find themselves with an

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Speaker 1: economy they're explowing and with credit not being rolled over.

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Speaker 1: And that's how then it translates. I would say, the

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Speaker 1: transmission mechanism is from the yield curve to the bond

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Speaker 1: market and credit spreads and then eventually to the stock market.

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Speaker 1: But unless yeah, that's not happening yet. Because deposit better

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Speaker 1: is so low for many of these banks, the the

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Speaker 1: interest that they pay on deposits to depositors is incredibly love.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't been picking up. So the net interest margin,

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Speaker 1: despite the flat yield curve, has been picking up because

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Speaker 1: they're passing on the higher rates over at the FED

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Speaker 1: two loans that they create. Do you see that dynamic

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Speaker 1: staying in place over the next couple of years, really

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Speaker 1: low deposit beta, and that essentially means that net interest

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Speaker 1: marches at banks hold up. Yes, and you see some

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Speaker 1: some some continuation of death for quite some time. And

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Speaker 1: actually if you look in Tom you were alluding to

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Speaker 1: the two stands, but if we actually look at the

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Speaker 1: three months of ten year, we're still about a hundred

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Speaker 1: hundred and ten basis points. Uh so. And also to

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Speaker 1: the point that John was making, so three month rade

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Speaker 1: are are much lower than than two year rates, and

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Speaker 1: I think for the purpose of the credit transmission, the

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Speaker 1: three month a ten year is more indicative. Furthermore, I

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Speaker 1: would say that the first confirmation of that transmission mechanism

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Speaker 1: is still be seen in lending standards. And at the moment,

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Speaker 1: all the set surveys show the lending standards remained very generous,

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Speaker 1: both for large firms and small firms. So that's where

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Speaker 1: we're not worried yet about the flatting of the yield curve.

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Speaker 1: N should we dazzle Bloomberg Radio audience and put the

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Speaker 1: threes tens chart out on Twitter place? I think we should.

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Speaker 1: You should absolutely do that. What you're doing that, I

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Speaker 1: want to make the horizontal line that beautiful Appenheimer Funds.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to ask the lessie an important question. Now.

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Speaker 1: We just talked about really strong data, really decent a

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Speaker 1: d P report. We had our sam yesterday, the strongest

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Speaker 1: sense I believe, two thousand and four. Yet we're reconciling

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Speaker 1: that with a flatter yield curve. Why is it only

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Speaker 1: the front end of the curve of the s adjusting

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Speaker 1: to a better economy. Why are we not saying you'll

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Speaker 1: to pick up further down a curve unlessia Because the

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Speaker 1: three month is really controlled by the set. The two

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Speaker 1: year part of the curve is really driven by market

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Speaker 1: participants anticipating FED hikes. The three months is really ultimately

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Speaker 1: the fat funds rate, and it's a reflection of the

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Speaker 1: fact that the seed is hiking at a much much

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Speaker 1: more gradual taste than historically we have seen with this

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Speaker 1: strength in the economic data, and there reason being as

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Speaker 1: we all know the puzzle with the inflation picture. The

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Speaker 1: latest FED minutes revealed again the puzzle that the steadies facing.

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Speaker 1: They have clearly upgraded their growth projections, even incorporated the

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Speaker 1: common fiscal expansion, yet they have still revived higher their

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Speaker 1: inflation numbers. They are taking with this puzzle unless you've

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Speaker 1: got to leave it there, unless you're the longest. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much with that, m Thanks for listening to

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen to interviews on

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast platform you prefer. I'm

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at Tom Keene before the podcast. You can

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Speaker 1: always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio