Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Welcome back to another episode of Two Jersey Jays.
Speaker 1: I'm Jackie Jennifer, and today we are discussing something very
Speaker 1: timely and interesting and it's something that I've been wanting
Speaker 1: to talk about because basically, no one knows what's going
Speaker 1: on with Jersey that's true.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's I don't know. I can promise you that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think they get just all the time. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: none of us. Now everyone has their theories, but basically
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of us are at a
Speaker 1: point where we're starting to think about what life might
Speaker 1: look like without the show. And something about the show
Speaker 1: is that it really kind of in a good way.
Speaker 1: I mean, it could be a good way or a
Speaker 1: bad way, but it like really like takes over your
Speaker 1: life if you let it, which it has for most
Speaker 1: of us.
Speaker 3: It kind of like you have so much going on.
Speaker 1: It's like every day there's something, whether you're planning something
Speaker 1: or attending something, or talking about the show, or like
Speaker 1: filming the show or watching the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's not like a three month gig, right,
Speaker 4: It definitely is, from my experience, takes up more time
Speaker 4: than three months months out of the year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: And you know, for some house I've you know, on
Speaker 1: other franchises, suddenly that rug gets pulled out from under
Speaker 1: them and they don't have time to even think about
Speaker 1: what would my life look like without the show. And
Speaker 1: of course, like most of us have beautiful lives. It's
Speaker 1: not like anyone's going to go like live in poverty
Speaker 1: or like not have anything. But it is a lot
Speaker 1: to adjust from.
Speaker 4: I would think every year that you're on is a
Speaker 4: year more you have to adjust afterwards. I don't know,
Speaker 4: I'm just making that up, but I would think that
Speaker 4: it's harder for someone like you, Jack than it would
Speaker 4: be for me, just simply because of the fact that I.
Speaker 2: Haven't been on as long. I'm not well, I don't.
Speaker 1: Know about that, because after my second year on the show,
Speaker 1: I was way more like obsessed with it than I
Speaker 1: am now. Really, yeah, like after my second year, I
Speaker 1: was like more and more like I couldn't get enough.
Speaker 1: I want all of it, like every extra activity, And
Speaker 1: now I'm kind of like I feel very fortunate, like
Speaker 1: I would like to come back if the show comes back,
Speaker 1: but like I feel very fortunate that I had like
Speaker 1: almost seven years of like excitement and like I feel
Speaker 1: like I could do something with those open doors now,
Speaker 1: you know, like I wouldn't be as devastated I think
Speaker 1: now as I would have been.
Speaker 3: If it all got taken away after two years.
Speaker 4: That's so interesting because I think about not just from
Speaker 4: our cast, but you know, ogs from all of the
Speaker 4: casts and have been lived a certain way for let's say,
Speaker 4: over ten years. Well, I think it's really person specific
Speaker 4: now even how it's sort of like how it all resonates,
Speaker 4: how it pans out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like I think there's some like longtime housewives,
Speaker 1: so I could just read on them that they're like
Speaker 1: okay with moving on. Yeah, like that maybe it doesn't
Speaker 1: fit their life anymore, you know what I'm saying. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's certainly listen, it's all encompassing.
Speaker 4: It's not this is not the kind of gig where
Speaker 4: you don't not thinking about you know, work once you
Speaker 4: once you go home.
Speaker 2: It's not a nine to five.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean, obviously things changed dramatically, and I
Speaker 4: think there's probably such an emotional toll to that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I haven't experienced it yet. Could be that I'm about to,
Speaker 4: could be that I am not. Who knows, you know
Speaker 4: how it's going to go. But it's going to end
Speaker 4: one way or another. It's not this is not going
Speaker 4: to be you know, my my trajectory on the show
Speaker 4: is not going to be all right.
Speaker 1: It's going to end for everybody at some point, Like
Speaker 1: we're not going to be in our seventies on the show, right. So,
Speaker 1: but but it is interesting that we are in the
Speaker 1: unique position to get like almost some time to like contemplate,
Speaker 1: well what it could feel like and to prepare for that,
Speaker 1: you know, so that by the time it comes and
Speaker 1: who knows, who knows what they're going to do, like
Speaker 1: I have, I have seen Bravo.
Speaker 3: Like so, Jen and I are not.
Speaker 1: Going to be talking about specific people or mentioning specific
Speaker 1: names today because there's no reason to do that. But
Speaker 1: we're going to talk in generality.
Speaker 3: But I have seen. I just think it's interesting that
Speaker 3: we get like that.
Speaker 1: Time to prepare, whereas some people just get it old
Speaker 1: pulled out potomac.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, also just in terms of I just want you
Speaker 4: guys to know that, like we obviously, you know, we
Speaker 4: go back and forth with specifics and what do you
Speaker 4: think about not just our show, we talk about you know,
Speaker 4: all the different franchises, Like do you think this person's
Speaker 4: going to go?
Speaker 2: Is this We're going to say? What is this person
Speaker 2: doing now?
Speaker 4: But because we are, we're talking and we try to
Speaker 4: talk to you guys each week about stuff that's going
Speaker 4: on outside of Housewives and stuff that we're dealing with,
Speaker 4: you know, at our ages and going through these crazy
Speaker 4: life changes. But I feel I feel like this is
Speaker 4: you know, it's not just sounds specific to anyone housewife,
Speaker 4: Like what happens in your life when something you've been
Speaker 4: so devoted to, something that has sort of like taken
Speaker 4: over and something that has formed your identity is now
Speaker 4: no longer? Right?
Speaker 3: Like what do you?
Speaker 4: Where do you go from there? Is there a way
Speaker 4: to prepare? Is your mental health affected? I'm sure that
Speaker 4: it is good and bad right specifically like with the Housewives,
Speaker 4: I'm sure good things and bad things happen on.
Speaker 3: So how are like if it ended?
Speaker 4: So you know, That's why I said to you, I
Speaker 4: feel like it would be harder if I had been
Speaker 4: on longer for me, and also because I've been in
Speaker 4: this friend of role. I'm not saying it won't be
Speaker 4: hard and I can't I can tell you right now oh,
Speaker 4: I'll be fine. But the truth is, like when I
Speaker 4: found out I was going to be a friend of
Speaker 4: instead of a full time housewife, my ego was just
Speaker 4: so bent out of shape. So if I picture a
Speaker 4: scenario where I get told listen, Jen, we're going on
Speaker 4: without you, you know, thank you for coming, and you know,
Speaker 4: see you never that, I think that my ego would
Speaker 4: be very bruised.
Speaker 1: So I have a question, Yes, do you think it
Speaker 1: would be different the way your ego would feel if
Speaker 1: the whole show got rebooted versus some people staying in,
Speaker 1: some people going yes, it would be different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2: I mean that's just the truth, and I think that
Speaker 2: everyone would feel that way.
Speaker 4: I mean, I I know for a fact that my
Speaker 4: life is not just this show, because I've had a
Speaker 4: long life. I had fifty three years before I got
Speaker 4: onto The Housewives of New Jersey, and I will have
Speaker 4: not that many, but hopefully a lot more, you know,
Speaker 4: years after. And I know that I have a lot
Speaker 4: of people in my life and things in my life
Speaker 4: and things and people that I care about, and I
Speaker 4: life will go on, and who knows, who knows what
Speaker 4: the future holds, who knows what twists and turns my
Speaker 4: ego will be separate from what my life looks like.
Speaker 4: I know that I'm very blessed. I have a great life.
Speaker 4: I have struggles, I have heartache, I have you know,
Speaker 4: happy times, all of it. But I think it'll be
Speaker 4: an ego problem for me. That's the biggest thing. And
Speaker 4: I think I can overcome that though, right Like, it'll
Speaker 4: be a while of how dare you? And was I?
Speaker 4: Or was I not good enough? Or you know, why me?
Speaker 4: And depending on how it all pans out, and then
Speaker 4: I think my life will move on and I'll be
Speaker 4: a hopefully you know, I'll be Jen Fessler and I
Speaker 4: was happy before and fulfilled and I'll be happy and
Speaker 4: fulfilled after.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I feel the same way.
Speaker 4: Do you feel like your life potentially it could get
Speaker 4: better once the show if you're not on the show, Like,
Speaker 4: do you feel like there's do you see a path
Speaker 4: where all of a sudden you're even more fulfilled and
Speaker 4: you've it's easier than you thought to let go?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think it's it's hard right now
Speaker 1: because I didn't have a great season, and so coming
Speaker 1: off of a season where I felt like it was
Speaker 1: just I think anyone on our cast would tell you
Speaker 1: that this season did not feel happy. There was no
Speaker 1: joy in this season. There was no laughing. There was
Speaker 1: so if you asked me a few years ago when
Speaker 1: we all had a great time even after Ireland, like
Speaker 1: the best time, I would have.
Speaker 3: Been really sad.
Speaker 1: Right now, I felt like I went through a lot
Speaker 1: this season. I wasn't happy. I you know, I even
Speaker 1: had to get rid of social media for a little while.
Speaker 1: Social media was very mean to me. So right now
Speaker 1: I'm at a little bit of a different place. But
Speaker 1: that being said, I would like to I would like
Speaker 1: to change.
Speaker 3: Like where I left off. Do you know, like I
Speaker 3: want one.
Speaker 1: More season to like change that, you know, because I
Speaker 1: feel like whatever, Like that's not me what people ended
Speaker 1: up seeing, you know. So, but there are things that
Speaker 1: I would have more time to put my if I'm
Speaker 1: being honest, Like, my happiest thing is writing. I love writing,
Speaker 1: and so obviously i'd have more time for writing. But
Speaker 1: do I want to write full time? There's I think
Speaker 1: that the true answer is there are a lot of
Speaker 1: things I would miss and a lot of things I
Speaker 1: wouldn't miss.
Speaker 4: Interesting, I think I wonder how it's different like in
Speaker 4: terms of reality stars versus celebrities. Right, So, like, let's
Speaker 4: say a celebrity gets canceled.
Speaker 3: I think that must be done. I wonder, I wonder,
Speaker 3: I mean getting canceled. I don't.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine anything worse than everyone suddenly thinking that
Speaker 1: you're horrible.
Speaker 4: It's different, Right, So let's say if you go somebody's
Speaker 4: off of reality show. That doesn't make necessarily mean that
Speaker 4: everyone thinks that that that person is horrible. It's not
Speaker 4: the same as getting canceled. But I wonder if you know,
Speaker 4: even not celebrity, but but when something that you've been
Speaker 4: doing for a long time you're so passionate about, everything ends, right, Jack,
Speaker 4: Like doesn't matter what it is like at some point,
Speaker 4: Jeff Wessler is not going to and that's his passion
Speaker 4: is I don't know why, but it's being a corporate attorney.
Speaker 4: So that's what turns him on. And you know, the
Speaker 4: man is sixty two, and I guess at some point
Speaker 4: if he doesn't leave, they're going to push him out.
Speaker 2: He's not going to.
Speaker 4: I don't see him being a seventy eight year old
Speaker 4: corporate attorney. And then what does that look like?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 4: And that's I mean, that's we're talking about retirement, but
Speaker 4: also like how do you how does life change and
Speaker 4: your identity and how much of identity. I've only been
Speaker 4: doing this for two years. I can feel my identity
Speaker 4: getting very wrapped up in it. Right. There's so much
Speaker 4: now just in terms of being out in the world
Speaker 4: and people recognizing me or fabulous opportunity and getting to
Speaker 4: meet people that I would have never I don't been
Speaker 4: able to.
Speaker 1: That necessarily ends, to be honest with you, I think
Speaker 1: once a housewife, always a house life.
Speaker 3: Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, if like you ran into Bethany not to
Speaker 1: mention any news, but like you wouldn't be like, oh,
Speaker 1: the ex house Like she's just like you're a housewife.
Speaker 3: You're a housewife, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I don't.
Speaker 4: And that's not even it's not like that's the app
Speaker 4: I mean, that is so flattering an ice when people
Speaker 4: recognize you. But I guess it's just you know, feeling
Speaker 4: like you're just part of something and I don't know,
Speaker 4: I don't know that adventure of it coming to an end.
Speaker 4: But again, like we're talking about, there's bad stuff that
Speaker 4: comes along with it too. It's that it's the brutal
Speaker 4: social media of it all right, and it is, it
Speaker 4: can be really brutal.
Speaker 1: It was, I know how horrible it's been. Even when
Speaker 1: you feel like you're probably loved, I think that you
Speaker 1: get a ton of hate.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, everybody gets a ton of hate.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really sometimes that's really hard. That's one thing
Speaker 1: I would not miss. But yeah, there are things that
Speaker 1: I would miss. But I do also think with Bravo,
Speaker 1: they love their own, do you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Like they're always bringing in new people, but I feel
Speaker 1: like once you're a part of this world, they like recycled.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I mean there's there's.
Speaker 4: Always there's other Bravo stuff, right, like one of I
Speaker 4: know you've been through to a lot of them, but
Speaker 4: this was my first Bravo con. It was completely surreal,
Speaker 4: you know, and it was like just for me. First
Speaker 4: of all, it was meeting these these women that I've
Speaker 4: been watching for so many that's just the women. I mean,
Speaker 4: I met, you know, the cast from I don't know,
Speaker 4: Summer House or whatever, but like, meeting these people was
Speaker 4: so crazy. And then all of a sudden, and I'm
Speaker 4: sorry you guys, because I think I just say it
Speaker 4: all the time. It's probably getting so boring. But for me,
Speaker 4: everything is with this comes with like oh my god
Speaker 4: at my age, because I think that it's extraordinary at
Speaker 4: least it feels like that for me that at age
Speaker 4: fifty three I had this, I've had this experience. But
Speaker 4: you know, like so like the Bravo con of it
Speaker 4: all or I don't know if Ultimate Girls Trip is
Speaker 4: out even still a thing, but they do seem to
Speaker 4: be bringing you know, a lot of the Bravo lebs
Speaker 4: back in and they are getting other opportunities from traders
Speaker 4: to villains to dance the bridge. Yeah right, try anybody,
Speaker 4: try and keep your corporate lawyer in the office exactly.
Speaker 4: But I think that's the you know what's interesting about
Speaker 4: our podcast as we talk about middle aged women stuff,
Speaker 4: so like to be a middle aged woman and to
Speaker 4: suddenly have to shift your life career wise, right, yes,
Speaker 4: you know it's different than when you're thirty two years
Speaker 4: old like some of the newer housewives and like maybe
Speaker 4: this doesn't pan out.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, you have babies at home, You're busy with
Speaker 1: the babies. You know, like you could do.
Speaker 3: Anything you got, you know, seventy years ahead of right,
Speaker 3: it's different.
Speaker 4: You're right, Well, that's yeah, that makes actually that is
Speaker 4: actually feels very right ontography because I talk to my
Speaker 4: kids and I talk to their friends, a lot of
Speaker 4: their friends. Actually that are they'll come to me, I'm
Speaker 4: looking for a job. Do you know anybody? Because everything
Speaker 4: seemed feels like it's networking these days, right, and these
Speaker 4: kids are so intense, and they've left college and right now,
Speaker 4: you know, it's harder than ever. And I see these
Speaker 4: distraught twenty somethings and I say to them, like, it's
Speaker 4: all good. Like you are in your twenties, this is
Speaker 4: the time for you to not have a job, find
Speaker 4: a job, get fired from a job, get hired for
Speaker 4: a new job, wait tables, bartend, find your dreach dream job,
Speaker 4: have it not work out, go back to school, whatever
Speaker 4: it is, right like that is at least that's Those
Speaker 4: are my thoughts that in your twenties it's okay to
Speaker 4: not have it all figured out. But once you're a
Speaker 4: middle aged woman who's been given this unbelievably unique opportunity,
Speaker 4: and I guess harder to picture like, okay, well listen,
Speaker 4: that came, but something else will come.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's easy to think this is it and like
Speaker 1: nothing else will come because we're older now and it's
Speaker 1: that whole thing that we talked about a few months ago.
Speaker 1: It's like that invisible woman when you get into your
Speaker 1: middle aged, you know, metopause years, you've become invisible, yeah,
Speaker 1: to society, and it's easy to think that this was,
Speaker 1: you know, a one in a million opportunity and that
Speaker 1: nothing like this will come again, and that you're just
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 2: That's it, like that, you know, that's what I think.
Speaker 1: Using the mister Clean magic pad on your cabinets. I
Speaker 1: don't and yeah, I don't get I don't believe my cabinets.
Speaker 1: I carefully love that mister Clean magic.
Speaker 3: But I think.
Speaker 4: That's that's probably what's in the back of a lot
Speaker 4: if I'm guessing, because it feels like that's what in
Speaker 4: the back what's in the back of mine, like of
Speaker 4: our of our psyche sEH.
Speaker 3: I don't think like that.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I just think I think that. I I mean, I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 4: I'm just like we're as we're talking it through, like
Speaker 4: maybe it's that I find it unlikely and that's sad
Speaker 4: and maybe really not true, but that I could get
Speaker 4: another opportunity at my age that's going to be as
Speaker 4: I mean, would you really want to do another reaction?
Speaker 4: I'm not even saying a reality show. I'm saying an
Speaker 4: opportunity that moves me. Like, if you ask me would
Speaker 4: I like to host a talk show? Would I or
Speaker 4: not even host? I don't know what I like to
Speaker 4: interview people on the red carpet?
Speaker 2: Would I like to?
Speaker 4: I mean, there's a million things, but I guess in
Speaker 4: my mind, because of my age, it feels very unlikely.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, it doesn't feel like.
Speaker 4: They're going to be knocking at my door to be
Speaker 4: the next host of Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2: It's just not going to happen.
Speaker 3: Right, Just break up with Tom Sandoval. That's all you
Speaker 3: need to do, right.
Speaker 4: Exactly exactly So, I mean, so maybe that's part of
Speaker 4: what's so hard, you know, And housewives are they come
Speaker 4: I guess at all ages now, but but the ones
Speaker 4: that are not so young. Maybe that's what's hard about
Speaker 4: it is thinking, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you feel like people age out? Like I
Speaker 1: know Karen on Potomac is in her sixties. I don't know,
Speaker 1: is there anyone else in their sixties?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Do people age out? I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know the answer to that. I mean, I
Speaker 4: think a great housewife is a grace. Is like a
Speaker 4: great housewife? Right, Like nobody's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're totally right.
Speaker 1: So we have a best guest today because this man
Speaker 1: has literally spoken to every house since the beginning of time,
Speaker 1: and I am very interested on his take on how
Speaker 1: people's lives just moved forward after the show. So our
Speaker 1: guest today is Dave Quinn.
Speaker 4: So Dave is a senior editor at People and he
Speaker 4: works all across entertainment lifestyle news. So now I am
Speaker 4: reading off of his bio is he joined in twenty
Speaker 4: sixteen as a writer reporter, where he became known for
Speaker 4: his Bravaval and Broadway exclusives across print and digital. A
Speaker 4: housewives expert. But we do know him obviously from People magazine.
Speaker 4: We also know him from a book that if you
Speaker 4: haven't read, I would suggest run, not walk, to your
Speaker 4: local bookstore or ordered up on Amazon to order Dave's book,
Speaker 4: which is I feel like everybody knows it not all
Speaker 4: diamonds and Rose and it is a deep dive into
Speaker 4: everything housewives.
Speaker 2: I mean, he gets into the nitty gritty.
Speaker 4: I don't have to push this book because I feel
Speaker 4: like everyone already knows about it, but just in case,
Speaker 4: please please pick it up. If you're especially if you're
Speaker 4: a Housewives fan, you will freak.
Speaker 3: Let's welcome Dave Yay.
Speaker 6: Hello.
Speaker 3: Hi, Oh you look so cute with your hands. Great cat.
Speaker 6: Thank you? How are my friends?
Speaker 2: Hi, Dave Quinn.
Speaker 3: We're good, so grateful to have you here today.
Speaker 1: So, Jenna and I were just discussing the fact that,
Speaker 1: you know, with Jersey on ice and no one knows
Speaker 1: what's going to happen, we have the unique ability to
Speaker 1: have a few months to kind of think about what
Speaker 1: life might look like afterwards instead of having the rug
Speaker 1: pulled out from under.
Speaker 3: Us, or we might prepare for it and then bes back.
Speaker 1: So knows, right, but we're really curious to talk about,
Speaker 1: like what life could look like after Housewives.
Speaker 4: You know, when Jackie actually did she said, you know,
Speaker 4: we should have Dave Quinn. Neither one of us thought
Speaker 4: that would happen as easily as it did. We were
Speaker 4: just got very lucky. I don't know how we got
Speaker 4: so lucky, but anyway, just so our listeners understand, hoping
Speaker 4: they all already read your book.
Speaker 2: But if not, like Dave is.
Speaker 4: If there's an expert, if there is an expert right
Speaker 4: that people want to like contact for everything Housewives, it's
Speaker 4: Dave Quinn.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what so much.
Speaker 1: And every time I'm on the phone with Dave, he
Speaker 1: gets at least four calls coming through from other housewives exactly.
Speaker 4: So No, I just think it's I think it's I'm
Speaker 4: so grateful to have you because I feel like if
Speaker 4: anyone understands the psyche, whether that's a good or a
Speaker 4: bad thing of a housewife, it's you. So maybe you
Speaker 4: can help us figure this out.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to jump right in, Dave, and I'm
Speaker 3: going to ask.
Speaker 1: You, sure when the show ends, for a housewife, whether
Speaker 1: they're new or old, like, what happens to life? Does
Speaker 1: it get better? Do they do other things? Do they
Speaker 1: you know, disappear.
Speaker 5: I think it's a morning process for a lot of people.
Speaker 5: I think I would actually say for every person who's
Speaker 5: a part of it, whether you're a part of it
Speaker 5: for one season or fifteen seasons, it's still a morning process.
Speaker 5: Because look, there's a lot of expectations we put on this,
Speaker 5: what it's going to be what it's going to feel
Speaker 5: like right when you are thinking about you get the
Speaker 5: call you want to be a part of it. Now
Speaker 5: you've sort of built it up to what you want
Speaker 5: it to be, and then you start dealing with the
Speaker 5: reality of what it is, right, the tacticalities of filming,
Speaker 5: the stresses of getting into arguments with people that you like,
Speaker 5: or feeling like people are talking about you behind your back,
Speaker 5: not knowing what that means. You know, where you sit,
Speaker 5: where you stand, then having to watch the show over again.
Speaker 5: First you sit in a purgatory of what the hell
Speaker 5: is that well that I just finished?
Speaker 6: Right, what is it going to be?
Speaker 5: What's anyone going to think? And then you have to
Speaker 5: watch it and relive it with the with the eyes
Speaker 5: of an editor, with the eyes of a national audience,
Speaker 5: saying what they think you were feeling, or what they
Speaker 5: think your motivations were, or how you should act or
Speaker 5: how you shouldn't act, or whatever it is. So all
Speaker 5: of that is its own experience, right, And then if
Speaker 5: you get used to it, if you've done it three four, five, six,
Speaker 5: how many of our seasons even you just kind of
Speaker 5: are in a rhythm of it. So when that gets
Speaker 5: pulled away from you, whether you leave on your own
Speaker 5: or whether someone tells you you have to go. There's
Speaker 5: a morning process of it, you know, you know that
Speaker 5: filming starts and you're not a part of it, and
Speaker 5: you're kind of like, oh man.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's why I asked Jen, like if she
Speaker 1: thinks it'll be easier if the whole show, if our
Speaker 1: whole show just gets rebooted, and both of us agree,
Speaker 1: of course, that would be rather than the ego, right right,
Speaker 1: rather than watching other people.
Speaker 3: Be us back.
Speaker 1: What about?
Speaker 4: Well, also, Dave, what about if somebody had had has
Speaker 4: a really bad season and you would think they've gotten
Speaker 4: so much?
Speaker 3: You know that either of us had a bad season.
Speaker 3: I'm obviously, but no, we are.
Speaker 4: Listen, Jackie, obviously it doesn't feel great about last season.
Speaker 4: Having said that, though they're you know, there's always a housewife.
Speaker 4: I think probably that feels that way. But is even
Speaker 4: at that point, housewives generally want to come back, even
Speaker 4: if they've had this really shitty season and they are
Speaker 4: taking it from all, you know, angles, because you always
Speaker 4: feel like.
Speaker 3: You're going to redeem yourself. What do you think, dude?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree, and well I would say that.
Speaker 5: I've never spoken to a housewife who hasn't told me
Speaker 5: that she wanted to quit. I wanted to leave, didn't
Speaker 5: want anything to do with it anymore, no matter whether
Speaker 5: she was in the middle of a good season or
Speaker 5: a bad season. You know, the stress of people's comments.
Speaker 5: I was on the phone with a housewife just earlier
Speaker 5: today who was telling me I'm quitting. I'm going to
Speaker 5: this reunion and I am quitting. I want nothing to
Speaker 5: do with the show anymore. I can't stand it. I'll
Speaker 5: make money elsewhere, it doesn't matter, right. But that doesn't
Speaker 5: really happen, right, And I know many housewives who have
Speaker 5: oh yes, Aulda production and said I'm out, I don't
Speaker 5: want anything to do with this, but they still kind
Speaker 5: of get back in. So even if you've had a
Speaker 5: terrible season, you still kind of want to be a
Speaker 5: part of it. And like you said, Jackie, like you
Speaker 5: think maybe I can redeem myself. Maybe next time it'll
Speaker 5: be better.
Speaker 4: It's so if I was just going to tell this
Speaker 4: very quickly because I don't want us to miss a
Speaker 4: second with you, but first season, maybe the first week
Speaker 4: we're filming, and Jackie and I had like a quibble
Speaker 4: and did never it never made it to air, okay,
Speaker 4: But anyway, so we had like this quittal. It was
Speaker 4: it was my first and I was devastated and I
Speaker 4: was I left this scene and I was.
Speaker 3: She's shaking.
Speaker 4: I was so upset, I said, I said to Chris
Speaker 4: d Rosa, listen, I can't do this. So I'm sorry,
Speaker 4: but you know, tell them fessler out. And he's like,
Speaker 4: m hm, why don't you call me in the morning
Speaker 4: and tell me that. He said, Okay, I'm not going
Speaker 4: to call anyone right now, Jen to report that. Why
Speaker 4: you call me in the morning and you let me
Speaker 4: know how you feel. And he just laughed like in
Speaker 4: my face, which I guess he should have, right because
Speaker 4: I was like, you know, the drama of the whole thing, Oh, I.
Speaker 1: Mean the number of times that I have said that
Speaker 1: I'm going to quit and then I came back, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I think that's that's a part, and
Speaker 1: that's a natural response to being upset or or something.
Speaker 1: But anyway, do you find that after that morning process?
Speaker 1: Do ex housewives in general tend to want to stay
Speaker 1: in the spotlight. Do they start like trying to become
Speaker 1: an influencer or do a lot of them go back
Speaker 1: to a quiet life.
Speaker 6: Well, it's funny.
Speaker 5: I think that it's changed over the past couple of
Speaker 5: years because I think, no disrespect, but the advent of
Speaker 5: podcasts has really changed the way I have house most
Speaker 5: reality career could look like.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not talking about two Jersey Jays, No, no, no,
Speaker 1: but I'm talking I'm just kidding.
Speaker 5: About like even if you think I mean Brandy Glanville,
Speaker 5: I think was sort of the first housewife who had
Speaker 5: a podcast, but so many other housewives have now jumped
Speaker 5: into this and it's exploded into something that they can
Speaker 5: still sort of stay in the public eye through it
Speaker 5: even if they leave. But it really depends on the person.
Speaker 5: There have been a lot of women who have sort
Speaker 5: of let it go and said I don't really want
Speaker 5: anything to do with this, and I'll see you later,
Speaker 5: and they've gone back to their lives of raising their
Speaker 5: children or doing whatever they need to do. Those who
Speaker 5: are in the public eye beforehand, I think, have remained
Speaker 5: in the public eye in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 5: There have been plenty who have just tried to be
Speaker 5: on other shows and sort of waited for the call back.
Speaker 5: It really depends on who you are. And the truth is,
Speaker 5: like all those people are who they were on the
Speaker 5: show in the first place, So you can always sort
Speaker 5: of tell right, Like, you know, if you're somebody on
Speaker 5: the show who is really obsessed with the show and
Speaker 5: talking about the show and seems to sort of make
Speaker 5: their lives about the show, that they're going to struggle
Speaker 5: a lot when the show is gone.
Speaker 3: Are there?
Speaker 4: Don't you find most housewives are like that or friends
Speaker 4: of housewives. Don't you feel like most of them, you know,
Speaker 4: do make their life. It's hard not to my experience.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, you're right, it's really hard not to. And
Speaker 5: I mean Jackie will tell you the advice that I
Speaker 5: gave Jackie which I met Jackie before she actually premiered
Speaker 5: on the show, and I said to her, you know,
Speaker 5: Jackie has said, the thing is, you're going to get
Speaker 5: a ton of people talking about you on social media,
Speaker 5: and I just I really implore you to ignore all
Speaker 5: the negative things people are saying about you can't trust them,
Speaker 5: like you just have to like take the negative out
Speaker 5: of there. And I was like, but you also have
Speaker 5: to take the positive out like anything nice someone says
Speaker 5: about you. Have to ignore too, because it's equally unreliable because.
Speaker 4: You I pay someone two hundred dollars an hour for
Speaker 4: the same message, but go on, kisses me off, Dave Quinn.
Speaker 5: I'll give it to you for free, but you won't listen.
Speaker 5: I mean, Jackie did it.
Speaker 6: No one does. It's hard. It's hard.
Speaker 5: It is, And I say that, you know with the
Speaker 5: utmost respect and understanding how difficult it is. I don't
Speaker 5: have any judgment in this. It's difficult to walk away
Speaker 5: from it. It's difficult to get it out of your life.
Speaker 5: You know, one housewife, when I was writing the book,
Speaker 5: who had been long out of the game, described it
Speaker 5: to me as as the as the girl in the
Speaker 5: horror movie who makes it to the end and defeats
Speaker 5: the bad guy and goes into the room and closes
Speaker 5: the door and takes a deep breath, and then the
Speaker 5: hand jumps out of the closet and grabs her. Because
Speaker 5: there's no escape from it. Because the truth is, it
Speaker 5: doesn't matter if you were on the show for one
Speaker 5: season or eighteen seasons. Everyone will identify you as a
Speaker 5: housewife for the rest of your career. That's what's on
Speaker 5: your tombstone.
Speaker 1: That's not necessarily a bad thing if you use it
Speaker 1: to your advantage.
Speaker 4: So let's just say it's fame and money, right, So
Speaker 4: those are the two things that people become addicted to,
Speaker 4: at least that's what most people say, right, What is
Speaker 4: it though about the fame? Because I feel like you've
Speaker 4: probably done a deep, deep dive into our psychees, Like
Speaker 4: what is it that just turns us on so much?
Speaker 4: And especially if you think about housewives, so they are
Speaker 4: maybe they're getting younger, maybe not, But you're also talking
Speaker 4: a lot about middle aged women right that are picked
Speaker 4: up out of their lives there I don't know, potentially
Speaker 4: mundane lives, not that they're unsatisfying, but whatever, But like,
Speaker 4: what is it that becomes so addictive?
Speaker 2: Like describe that?
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 2: Like what happens with the fame?
Speaker 5: Well, I want to explain that it's very different than
Speaker 5: say Alisa Renna or somebody who's sort of been famous,
Speaker 5: been famous before they got on the show, because there
Speaker 5: is like a there's a big difference there. The person
Speaker 5: I'm talking about is the you know, the Ninny Leagues,
Speaker 5: the Jill Zarin, the person who just like existed in
Speaker 5: the world and then became famous through the show, and
Speaker 5: both of you I think would be an example of that. Right, like, yes,
Speaker 5: no disrespect, but.
Speaker 6: The show made untaken and that is listen.
Speaker 5: It doesn't matter whether you get that at eighteen or
Speaker 5: you get that at forty eight or whatever it may be. Right,
Speaker 5: that is powerful. That is powerful that all of a
Speaker 5: sudden people know who you are and value you and
Speaker 5: want to know about you and get excited about you
Speaker 5: and champion you like you know, the memes, the tweets,
Speaker 5: the instagram posts like, it is beautiful, it is enticing,
Speaker 5: it's exciting. Fame is addictive for so many people because
Speaker 5: it makes them feel good. It just a scratch within
Speaker 5: them that they maybe never had itched before. It's not
Speaker 5: about money, although that's a part of it. It's nice
Speaker 5: to make money. We all like that. It's about notoriety.
Speaker 5: It's about feeling like your value, that you matter. At
Speaker 5: the end of the day, we as human beings, no
Speaker 5: matter whether we're famous or not, we all just want
Speaker 5: somebody to say to us, I see you, I hear you,
Speaker 5: and what you have, what you are saying has value
Speaker 5: to me. You are valuable by what you're saying. That's
Speaker 5: all we ever want. That's what I want from my friends,
Speaker 5: that's what I want from my family, That's what everyone wants.
Speaker 5: But when you're a housewife, when you're in the spotlight,
Speaker 5: you're getting that on a national scale. And that's addictive.
Speaker 5: And that is what really leads to what I always
Speaker 5: call the ego, which stands for edging God out. That
Speaker 5: when you start building into your ego and leaning onto
Speaker 5: your ego and thinking that like this is who you
Speaker 5: really are, your shit doesn't stink right, like this is
Speaker 5: what I want to be, you lose sense of what
Speaker 5: grounds you.
Speaker 6: To the earth. God could be whatever you want it
Speaker 6: to be.
Speaker 5: It's I'm a eleven year recovering alcoholic. My God is
Speaker 5: my higher power? Is you know Dumbledore for Christic. It
Speaker 5: doesn't matter, you know, it could be anything, but it's
Speaker 5: just what keeps you grounded onto this earth. And I
Speaker 5: think a lot of these women lose that.
Speaker 4: I hope housewives are listening to this particular episode. I
Speaker 4: think that that is and I have spoken about this
Speaker 4: so much in therapy, trying to keep that like at
Speaker 4: the forefront of what's happening in my mind, you know,
Speaker 4: like it doesn't matter. All of these people feeding my
Speaker 4: ego or not. I'm still loved worthwhile, I'm still a
Speaker 4: child of God, like all of that doesn't it doesn't
Speaker 4: change just because the masses, you know, know who I
Speaker 4: am all of a sudden. But it's a very it's
Speaker 4: a tricky thing not to feed into that, like now
Speaker 4: I matter, now I'm special, It's all bullshit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I when I'm.
Speaker 1: Talking about actually the difference between the feeling of not
Speaker 1: being asked back to the show versus a celebrity who
Speaker 1: gets canceled, and I imagine that would be harder in
Speaker 1: a way to all of a sudden have the world
Speaker 1: think that you are terrible for.
Speaker 2: Or maybe not, maybe it's the same.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's this feeling of all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: you had all of this adelation, and you had all
Speaker 4: of this, you know, this stroking and feeding of your ego,
Speaker 4: and then it goes away and you have to actually
Speaker 4: have some sort of feeling of self worth and sense
Speaker 4: of self or you're kind of screwed.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that people who succeed the most at
Speaker 5: it are the people who had that to begin with,
Speaker 5: you know, the ones who come to the show looking
Speaker 5: to fulfill them in some way and listen. We've also
Speaker 5: watched the show tear people's lives apart, and I always
Speaker 5: I don't blame the show for Marriage is Dissolving.
Speaker 6: I think that it.
Speaker 5: Elevates and sort of exposes what really was there that
Speaker 5: was never addressed. But think about if you're somebody who
Speaker 5: comes to the show, you are married, and all of
Speaker 5: a sudden, through the course of their time on the show,
Speaker 5: you get divorced, maybe you have bad relationships, maybe there's
Speaker 5: legal problems. Right, all of these things are happening to
Speaker 5: you NonStop.
Speaker 6: You sort of.
Speaker 5: Sort of lose control over who you were in the
Speaker 5: first place, who that person was started it. And ye,
Speaker 5: change is good. We all need to change and grow
Speaker 5: and evolve. But if you don't hold on tight to
Speaker 5: what that is and you can always see I always
Speaker 5: pay attention to the housewives who all of a sudden
Speaker 5: have a new circle around them.
Speaker 6: I call them a lot.
Speaker 5: Of like the bottom fears, the hanger on hers, like
Speaker 5: they all start surrounding themselves with these fans who are
Speaker 5: obsessed with them and who are just going to yes
Speaker 5: them to death. I think both of you know in
Speaker 5: conversations we've had, I will never yes you to death,
Speaker 5: because what value is that going to bring to either
Speaker 5: of us and our friendship. I'll tell you what I
Speaker 5: think is good or bad, but I don't judge you.
Speaker 5: I don't you know, Like I'm here to love and support,
Speaker 5: but ultimately, at the end of the day, you have
Speaker 5: to lean on the people that you have in your
Speaker 5: life who are like that. You can't fall into the
Speaker 5: crowds of the other folks. And that's what really I think.
Speaker 6: People.
Speaker 4: I always get asked like, are these people all the time?
Speaker 4: I can tell you if I had a penny for
Speaker 4: every time, But are these women really your friends? And
Speaker 4: I say the same thing. These are women that I
Speaker 4: have grown to love, that have become yes, have become
Speaker 4: my friends. What ties us. The tie that binds us
Speaker 4: is the housewives. And it's a different thing like my
Speaker 4: friends that I've had. It has to be, of course,
Speaker 4: because I have history. I have twenty years, thirty years,
Speaker 4: I mean my college friends next week, you know, forty
Speaker 4: years of friendship. So it's different. I have friends that
Speaker 4: I would turn to when things happen. If we our
Speaker 4: kids grew up together, you know, they were babies together.
Speaker 4: I've loved their kids, They've loved mine. It's a different thing,
Speaker 4: like I turned to those friends with different stuff, not always,
Speaker 4: you know, I count on the advice of friends that
Speaker 4: I've made, you know, with my time in terms of
Speaker 4: my time on Housewives. But I have to be able
Speaker 4: to have that also, I can't just be surrounded by
Speaker 4: just the housewives and just the you know, the people
Speaker 4: that I've met through Housewives.
Speaker 3: Right, So that actually.
Speaker 1: Brings out a very interesting question. Do you find that
Speaker 1: when someone leaves the show, do they sort of disengage
Speaker 1: from the show entirely? And those friendships do dissolve? Or
Speaker 1: do do X house From where I sit when I'm
Speaker 1: looking at X Housewives, they don't seem to be like
Speaker 1: close friends except for the Dallas cast because they all
Speaker 1: went down together. But aside from that, and I love
Speaker 1: the Dallas cast, I actually loved it.
Speaker 2: I want Dallas.
Speaker 1: I should have a lot of them are still friends?
Speaker 1: Do you think that Housewives do they generally tend to
Speaker 1: like stay close with the other people they used to
Speaker 1: be on the show with. Is there a jealousy like
Speaker 1: the ones that stay on the ones that get.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, but again that's all natural, right, Imagine,
Speaker 5: like you get moved off of this thing.
Speaker 6: It's hard.
Speaker 5: I'll name Tamra as an example, because she's somebody who
Speaker 5: spoken really clearly about that. When she got fired, it
Speaker 5: was really hard for her to sit back and watch
Speaker 5: all of these people do this thing that she had
Speaker 5: been doing for a while. And her close friendship with
Speaker 5: Shannon dissolved at that time because they used to talk
Speaker 5: every single day, but a big chunk of what they
Speaker 5: were talking about was the show. And now Shannon's not
Speaker 5: going to call her to talk about the show because
Speaker 5: Shannon is trying to find someone else to align with
Speaker 5: on the cast, and it's a game of survivor in
Speaker 5: some cases to some of these women, and you know,
Speaker 5: Tamra then gets left behind and her feelings are hurt.
Speaker 5: That doesn't mean that their friendship wasn't real, but it
Speaker 5: does mean that their friendship was based around something that
Speaker 5: was really specific. Think of it just as work friends,
Speaker 5: like I have really close work friends who were like
Speaker 5: my life when I worked at that company, and then
Speaker 5: I don't work at that company where I rarely talk
Speaker 5: to them at all. And it's not because I didn't
Speaker 5: care for them. It's not that that didn't matter to me,
Speaker 5: but it's when we didn't have that thing sort of
Speaker 5: uniting us, it was really difficult for us to sort
Speaker 5: of maintain that daily conversation. Was I jealous of their
Speaker 5: success now, but.
Speaker 4: You also didn't have to see like that's that's the mind,
Speaker 4: that's the mind. F right is like unlike you, like
Speaker 4: you left the job and you weren't keyed into what
Speaker 4: was happening at the job every day, and there's like
Speaker 4: the potential here you leave this job and you still
Speaker 4: see your work friends.
Speaker 3: Every day every week. Would you watch the show?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but I would potentially like that hard
Speaker 4: you can It's not you know, it's hard to let go.
Speaker 4: And even if you're not watching, you're hearing about, you're
Speaker 4: seeing the stories. I'm sure it's very tempting to want
Speaker 4: to know what's going on in this in this world
Speaker 4: that you were once part of.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but Jackie, I'll say that, like, I do think
Speaker 5: that whether you talked about the fact that like it
Speaker 5: would be easier if the whole show got changed and
Speaker 5: we just are watching new people.
Speaker 3: I don't well egoize, but I think if you.
Speaker 5: Ask any of the New York Housewives, they wouldn't feel
Speaker 5: that way. I think that and Sonya and Ramona and Derinda,
Speaker 5: they all had a hard time watching that other cast that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 6: You've tossed me aside. Yeah, and I don't matter.
Speaker 5: And now you're saying this matters and they're not better
Speaker 5: than me because I brought this, this and that and
Speaker 5: they didn't bring that up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, you're right, and think about that. Yeah, can
Speaker 3: I ask you?
Speaker 1: And I know that you're not the network obviously disclaimer,
Speaker 1: like none of us has any inside information. So this
Speaker 1: is just like all educated opinions. But do you feel
Speaker 1: like people age out? So like I was saying that
Speaker 1: Karen is in her sixties, I really don't know anyone
Speaker 1: else in their sixties in the Housewives spear.
Speaker 4: Maybe I'm getting there. I don't know if I'm in
Speaker 4: the spear or not anymore, but I'm definitely.
Speaker 1: Into No, there's a lot in there, you know, in
Speaker 1: their late fifties, mid fifties. But I don't know, what
Speaker 1: do you think, like, are we going to start seeing
Speaker 1: the era of housewives in their mid sixties.
Speaker 5: I don't think that age has anything to do with that.
Speaker 5: I think storyline has something to do with that. If
Speaker 5: they feel like there's nothing more to explore in your story,
Speaker 5: that's when I think the network and the producers ultimately say, well,
Speaker 5: I don't know how much more we have here with
Speaker 5: this person. I don't really think it's you know, and
Speaker 5: Huger could still be providing incredible storyline for her seventies
Speaker 5: for them, and they'll eat it all up if that's
Speaker 5: what they're getting. As long as she stays connected with
Speaker 5: her castmates, has real relationships with them, you know, is
Speaker 5: comfortable filling with them, and there aren't like blood feuds
Speaker 5: that's going on where nobody wants to fill with each other.
Speaker 5: As long as that continues down the path, Karen will
Speaker 5: stay fine, you know. And she's smart. She sees herself
Speaker 5: as an onion who reveals things about herself every.
Speaker 3: Single Oh I love her. Yeah, I love Karen.
Speaker 5: But I don't necessarily think it's age, you know, because
Speaker 5: it really just ultimately depends and they're always looking at
Speaker 5: it as a makeup. It's like, what, you know, this
Speaker 5: puzzle piece, Like what puzzle pieces go together? How can
Speaker 5: we make up this cast to make them make sense
Speaker 5: in the best possible way. I think that that's how
Speaker 5: you stay relevant by having things about yourself that are
Speaker 5: worthy of seeing and exploring. And even those two people say,
Speaker 5: well they don't have any more storyline, they still provide
Speaker 5: something by being active in the relationships or active in
Speaker 5: the conversation or you know, storring the pot or whatever
Speaker 5: it may be, that they still have value.
Speaker 6: In the eyes of the network.
Speaker 5: But ultimately, the network and the producers want long term
Speaker 5: housewives because the fan base likes them. They stay connected
Speaker 5: to them, like if they didn't, they would be replacing
Speaker 5: them every season.
Speaker 4: Well would you give in terms of just advice? Like
Speaker 4: you've seen it, You've seen it in a way that
Speaker 4: I don't think really anyone else has, right because I
Speaker 4: don't think that many housewives have opened themselves up to
Speaker 4: letting a writer into their lives. Like everybody seem to
Speaker 4: seems to have embraced you. But what advice would you
Speaker 4: give to someone who was on the show and now
Speaker 4: is not Like, what would you suggest that they do
Speaker 4: to feel okay about it? Is there advice you could give?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 5: I think it's like any sort of loss right, you
Speaker 5: need to be present in your emotions and recognize that
Speaker 5: there's there's no right way there's no shoulds. I really
Speaker 5: believe in living a shouldless life and sort of getting.
Speaker 6: That out of your head.
Speaker 5: You know, we only learn how to deal with things
Speaker 5: when you've experienced them before. Your first breakups, the heardest breakup,
Speaker 5: and then the second and the third and the fourth
Speaker 5: get a little easier, right, because you know what it's
Speaker 5: like to go through that thing. It's the same sort
Speaker 5: of thing. Right, you've never been on television and then
Speaker 5: lost a job. This is the first time you're experiencing it,
Speaker 5: So it's going to feel hard, and that's okay, Like
Speaker 5: you have to allow yourself the space to feel angry.
Speaker 5: I mean, there were days that I would speak to
Speaker 5: I'll use Tamras example again. There were days that I
Speaker 5: would speak to her where she was grateful that she
Speaker 5: had been fired from the show, and then she was
Speaker 5: pissed off that she'd been fired for the show, and
Speaker 5: then she's jealous. Sometimes within the same day, those emotions
Speaker 5: would arise. Yeah, I would just keep saying to her,
Speaker 5: it's okay that you feel those ways. Congratulations, you don't
Speaker 5: have to there's no should here. I'm not telling you
Speaker 5: should feel any other way. Feel the way that you
Speaker 5: feel and let those things build themselves.
Speaker 2: And then what then what do you do?
Speaker 5: And then you do what you think is important to you,
Speaker 5: if it's important to you, where you feel as though,
Speaker 5: you know, I got a lot of gratification over being
Speaker 5: a spokesperson for whatever it may be. You know, I
Speaker 5: love that I had this platform where I could talk
Speaker 5: about you know, divorce or eating disorders or whatever it
Speaker 5: may be. Right, use that to your advantage and find
Speaker 5: places that you can still maintain those sorts of things.
Speaker 5: If you just want to be famous, to be famous,
Speaker 5: that's a lot harder, right, because like that's that will
Speaker 5: never you will never really scratch that itch. No matter
Speaker 5: how many shows you end up on or how many
Speaker 5: whatever magazines, billboards, whatever, that will never be enough if
Speaker 5: that's all you're chasing. But if you're trying to find
Speaker 5: something like that actually satisfies you, then I think that
Speaker 5: you can find other places to do that.
Speaker 6: I love you that.
Speaker 4: I like going over this, like in therapy before is
Speaker 4: took like, what are your intentions? If the intent is
Speaker 4: she said, I'm telling you she said exactly what he
Speaker 4: just said. If the intention is just to be famous,
Speaker 4: she said it way more eloquently than I'm about to.
Speaker 4: But like basically she was saying, you're screwed. Like, if
Speaker 4: that's what you're going into this four is just the fame,
Speaker 4: it's your You're in trouble. If there's if there's something else,
Speaker 4: What is it that you're looking for?
Speaker 2: What is it that you're feeding?
Speaker 4: Right? Like for me, I said to her, I always
Speaker 4: wanted to kind of be on stage. I was as
Speaker 4: a kido as an actress, terrible at it, but I
Speaker 4: like the idea of making people laugh. That just always
Speaker 4: not to be a stand up comedian, but I just
Speaker 4: I like being the center of attention of making people
Speaker 4: and being goofy, you know, that sort of like always
Speaker 4: turned me on. So like if that's part of the intention,
Speaker 4: here where else could I do that? I don't know,
Speaker 4: you know, like if the intention is just the fame,
Speaker 4: it's not going to go well for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were talking about the fact that, like Jen
Speaker 1: was thinking that the longer you've been on.
Speaker 3: The show, the harder it would be for you.
Speaker 1: But I was saying that after my like second season,
Speaker 1: I was like, give me more, give me more, you know,
Speaker 1: and like I think it would have been harder for
Speaker 1: me at that stage because now I've experienced a lot
Speaker 1: of the ups and downs, and I feel like I've
Speaker 1: had it for a long time, and like, I don't
Speaker 1: think i'd be as devastated now as I would have
Speaker 1: been right when it was really heating up, when it
Speaker 1: was my whole life.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I get that.
Speaker 5: Listen, there's a feeling of there's so much more I
Speaker 5: wanted to do this, like this loss of possibility, right
Speaker 5: is what you're warning when that happens, And yeah, that's
Speaker 5: that's equally difficult. There's there's no right or wrong. I
Speaker 5: don't think it would be better or worse in any way.
Speaker 5: And the truth is, Jackie, like you may say that
Speaker 5: right now, but if it happened to you and you
Speaker 5: felt bad, that's also as I'm saying, and that's okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody once made a comment and we're not looking
Speaker 1: for specific names, but that nobody quits the housewives, like
Speaker 1: what very rare exception.
Speaker 3: Everybody gets fired? Is that true? Or do a fair
Speaker 3: number of people quit?
Speaker 6: I don't think that's true.
Speaker 5: I think that many people do quit in ways that
Speaker 5: we don't necessarily see as quitting. Putting down a boundary
Speaker 5: and saying, you know, I want to be paid this
Speaker 5: much or I want to be this status, and then
Speaker 5: whether they offered a status that's less than that, saying
Speaker 5: no thanks that is still like walking away on their terms.
Speaker 3: I'm happy to know that a lot of people have
Speaker 3: done it.
Speaker 5: Now that being said, there have been you know, we
Speaker 5: so view like firing as like a consequence thing, like
Speaker 5: you've done something wrong, you're fired. That's not really how
Speaker 5: the network sees it or how the production company sees
Speaker 5: it. It's more as like, do we want to move forward with,
Speaker 5: like what you have to offer, what your storyline is,
Speaker 5: what's available right now. It's not as personal as like
Speaker 5: or as black and white, I guess I would say,
Speaker 5: as like a good or a bad. But there have
Speaker 5: been plenty of times when they've said like, we don't
Speaker 5: necessarily know if this is right for you, and the
Speaker 5: person responding has been like, you're right, I don't want
Speaker 5: to come back either, like this is right for.
Speaker 6: Both of us. Does that mean they were fired? Yeah?
Speaker 6: I know.
Speaker 5: I contam like six people who've had that experience that
Speaker 5: they've been fired. I don't know if they've been like yes,
Speaker 5: I guess they were asked not to return, but they
Speaker 5: were also saying, I don't really want to be a
Speaker 5: part of this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't. I don't think I would consider that
Speaker 3: a firing.
Speaker 5: But I think that the person who says that, who
Speaker 5: has been saying that I'd been vocal about saying like
Speaker 5: no one's ever been fired before, that for them is
Speaker 5: like a point of pride, as if like, I'm better
Speaker 5: than everybody because I had the gumption to walk away.
Speaker 5: I don't think that you can.
Speaker 2: I know what you're just saying about.
Speaker 6: You're not better.
Speaker 5: You're not better than somebody who stayed until they were
Speaker 5: let go, because the truth is, you know, you didn't
Speaker 5: really conquer anything.
Speaker 6: Like we all are still in this pot. We're all.
Speaker 5: I have not met a single housewife who after Housewives
Speaker 5: has been able to escape the name housewife. Regardless of
Speaker 5: whether you're doing incredible things, it's still a part of
Speaker 5: who you are, right, you know, Lisa Renna is doing
Speaker 5: awesome things, but people are still going to be like, oh,
Speaker 5: from the Housewives, Like, yeah, still sticks with you.
Speaker 1: I know, Lookay Kelly Bensimon, she was like the most
Speaker 1: successful broker.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, yeah she's know that huge.
Speaker 1: Real estate broker, But like still when she's described in
Speaker 1: page six, it's you know, ex housewife.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, another housewife told me this one day,
Speaker 5: which I thought was really interesting. She said, you know,
Speaker 5: it's been sixteen years since I've been on the show,
Speaker 5: and everybody still brings this up. You know, you mentioned
Speaker 5: Kelly Bensimone. People will always go up to Kelly Bensimone like,
Speaker 5: oh my god, it's scary island.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: She will live with that for the rest of her life.
Speaker 5: So there's a part of that too, right, It's like
Speaker 5: you're stuck with this thing that's who you are. We
Speaker 5: haven't really had many years, you know, when you think
Speaker 5: about reality TV sort of became what it looked like
Speaker 5: to us to understand today pretty much from the year
Speaker 5: two thousand on. The Real World had existed in nineteen
Speaker 5: ninety two, but it was developed and pushed into the
Speaker 5: cultural zeigeist with Survivor and then such. So what twenty
Speaker 5: four years, twenty five years of really understanding about what
Speaker 5: reality TV does to people, what the psyche is. I
Speaker 5: don't think we have enough data to truly understand what
Speaker 5: it's like to be far enough away from it to
Speaker 5: see the long term effects that it actually has on you.
Speaker 3: Do you think they'll be talking about that one day?
Speaker 3: And yeah, and mayb.
Speaker 4: People are writing thesis about it now. I mean probably
Speaker 4: if they're smart. I think it's fascinating and I think
Speaker 4: it's frustating about also, and I want your opinion on
Speaker 4: this too, But like the viewers, how has our culture changed?
Speaker 4: And obviously social media has played a part of that,
Speaker 4: But how's reality TV played a part in changing of
Speaker 4: our culture in the way people treat each other?
Speaker 6: And Oh, it's shifted.
Speaker 5: And that's why I think you actually see when you're
Speaker 5: talking about this idea of how people react to it,
Speaker 5: that's what you're seeing two different reactions. Like the women
Speaker 5: who started the franchise, the Vicky Gumbelson's of the World,
Speaker 5: for example, really struggle with being off the show and
Speaker 5: the show existing without them because they're like, well, I
Speaker 5: made that. I was I just existed and I made that,
Speaker 5: and now who are you all people coming in and
Speaker 5: pretending like you're doing this thing that I created? Right?
Speaker 5: But the show has evolved. When both of you joined
Speaker 5: the show, it existed before Jackie. You knew what the
Speaker 5: show was, you knew the players, you paid attention, right,
Speaker 5: So like you were aware, Jennifer, of who these characters.
Speaker 5: You saw it through your friend, you understood the tenor
Speaker 5: of it. And a lot of people come in with
Speaker 5: that with an awareness in many ways of how I
Speaker 5: want to present myself, how I want to act, what
Speaker 5: my sort of what this could do for my business.
Speaker 5: That doesn't mean that that actually happens, but they are
Speaker 5: self producing in their head of like, Okay, I want
Speaker 5: to appear this way, and that's exactly how they would
Speaker 5: be off camera, right, like they would walk.
Speaker 6: Into a.
Speaker 5: Party and still act that same way, like I want
Speaker 5: to present myself this way. There are people who are
Speaker 5: conscious of how they are viewed. There's something wrong with that.
Speaker 5: I grew up in a household where there were two households, right,
Speaker 5: the one that everyone looked at from the outside in
Speaker 5: and the one that I lived in were very different households,
Speaker 5: and people live like that all the time. But the
Speaker 5: difference is now we sort of see what the show
Speaker 5: can do with the tenor can be and like it's
Speaker 5: hard to get back to that. Those Vickis, those Niemis,
Speaker 5: those Jills, those early season sort of people who are
Speaker 5: just living and figuring it out because it doesn't really
Speaker 5: work that way anymore, and as viewers, we therefore view
Speaker 5: you through the lens of what I know, Oh, she's
Speaker 5: doing this for a storyline, right, How many people say
Speaker 5: that to you where you've heard it that other people.
Speaker 6: Say, yeah, and that.
Speaker 2: That really is camera times. She's doing it for camera times.
Speaker 5: You're not doing it. You're not doing it for that.
Speaker 5: You're living and existing. But you are being hit with
Speaker 5: that because that's what the viewers have come to expect
Speaker 5: over the years.
Speaker 6: It's really hard. It's so hard.
Speaker 1: And what the trajectory with all of the streaming services
Speaker 1: now where there's just like constant new shows being turned out.
Speaker 1: I feel like on our network like they use the
Speaker 1: in house people like as long as you don't burn
Speaker 1: a bridge and sue them, like you're always kind of
Speaker 1: just like in the mix, you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean that's the thing that I think that I
Speaker 5: have come to really love about Bravos so much, And
Speaker 5: what really attracted me as a viewer is that it
Speaker 5: felt like there was a universe almost of characters who
Speaker 5: were sort of appearing in various places, even if you
Speaker 5: consider Watch What Happens Live one of those places, like
Speaker 5: it felt like this family of people. And I think
Speaker 5: that's how Bravo viewers feel about the show and sort
Speaker 5: of feel about the network. And that's why we watch
Speaker 5: so many of the shows on the network, you know,
Speaker 5: where most Bravo viewers don't just watch one show.
Speaker 6: We watch like ten.
Speaker 5: Shows, you know, like we're paying attention to Summerhouse and
Speaker 5: Housewives and Top Chef.
Speaker 6: And like we're watching it all.
Speaker 5: I don't know many other networks like that. I don't
Speaker 5: think people watch everything on HBO. I don't think they
Speaker 5: want Maybe HGTV, they'll watch everything, but like it's very different,
Speaker 5: and EAHGTV.
Speaker 6: Is the other network I can say it's similar to
Speaker 6: Bravo in the sense that they that.
Speaker 3: I love house Hunters so much.
Speaker 1: Evan and I play it like a game show. We
Speaker 1: like get to choose and then somebody it's the win.
Speaker 1: We used to keep track of.
Speaker 3: The winning and losing.
Speaker 4: Oh that's fine, But I think also that's probably why
Speaker 4: that this is why the viewers become so incensed, because
Speaker 4: you're not just fighting with someone, you're fighting with their
Speaker 4: best friend. Like and you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 4: you're attached to someone you've been in your mind And
Speaker 4: I've said this about myself, Like, you know, I've been
Speaker 4: friends with Melissa Gorga for years. She just didn't know me, Like,
Speaker 4: you know, we've been hanging out for the past fourteen years.
Speaker 4: So if you're going to and I'm not just saying
Speaker 4: I just use the name Melissa, but it could have
Speaker 4: been any of the women that you know been.
Speaker 2: On the show.
Speaker 4: And now you know you're watching somebody hurt your friend
Speaker 4: or hurt this person that you've like been thinking about
Speaker 4: that you sometimes wake up thinking about thinking about their kid,
Speaker 4: are you thinking about their life or and it becomes
Speaker 4: it's such a weird dynamic.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I remember when I when I interviewed Jen for the book,
Speaker 5: when I interviewed Carol Raswell, she told me this that
Speaker 5: totally unlocked it for me. She was, like, every argument
Speaker 5: you see on the show is about the show. They
Speaker 5: just aren't telling you it's about the show. But your
Speaker 5: piss that I didn't invite you to a party is
Speaker 5: because I want to get that camera time and I
Speaker 5: don't want you to be not talking.
Speaker 6: To me like that.
Speaker 5: That's a part of it, right, or like I'm upset
Speaker 5: at you for what you said to me because I
Speaker 5: know how it's going to play in the in the universe.
Speaker 5: I know that I'm going to have to deal with
Speaker 5: this accusation, this lie that you said about me, for
Speaker 5: the rest of my life, and like that is a
Speaker 5: big part of it as well, that we don't really understand.
Speaker 3: What do you think is going to happen with our show?
Speaker 3: When do you think we'll hear anything? Again? We know nothing.
Speaker 3: Nobody has any insider Yeah.
Speaker 5: I'll just say I have no insider info either, But
Speaker 5: the only thing that I can look to is experience.
Speaker 5: I don't think the network is going to do anything
Speaker 5: different than they've done in the past. So what have
Speaker 5: they done in the past? The Real Houses in New
Speaker 5: York City was a full reboot. The Real Housewives of
Speaker 5: Atlanta was sort of a mixed reboot, right They say,
Speaker 5: we brought in new people and use some of the
Speaker 5: characters that we had on the chess board. I think
Speaker 5: if I was a betting man, I would imagine that
Speaker 5: producers right now are casting a lot of different women,
Speaker 5: meeting with them trying to figure out what it could be,
Speaker 5: and then once they have a good list of ten
Speaker 5: or twelve whatever potentials, they may then start figuring out
Speaker 5: how to arrange the pieces on the board. Do we
Speaker 5: do a full reboot or do we do a half
Speaker 5: and half? And if we do a half and a half,
Speaker 5: who stays, who goes? What sort of relationships are there
Speaker 5: that exist? And they'll probably make that decision from there on.
Speaker 5: The Real House Was of New York City reboot was
Speaker 5: a success in a lot of people's eyes because it
Speaker 5: felt like a real group of friends and there's a
Speaker 5: lot of dynamics there, but the ratings haven't been as
Speaker 5: high as the Real Housewolves in New York City originally was.
Speaker 5: So to take a risk on sort of starting fresh
Speaker 5: is very very hard and it well, now we'll see
Speaker 5: with Atlanta because it's the first one that's kind of
Speaker 5: done this.
Speaker 6: How does that work?
Speaker 5: I mean you could say Miami sort of did it
Speaker 5: as well, but that was like had been off the
Speaker 5: air for so long. So those are I think the
Speaker 5: two obvious options. And it seemed when I look at
Speaker 5: the timeline, about six to eight months before the network
Speaker 5: announced any decisions on either of those casts, So I
Speaker 5: think that's what it is. I don't think they want
Speaker 5: to think about it at all right now. I think
Speaker 5: they want everyone to shut up, and I don't mean
Speaker 5: you guys, I mean.
Speaker 2: The fans I have.
Speaker 3: I haven't been given an interview in months.
Speaker 1: Like I said, no to everything, I just I don't
Speaker 1: want to talk negatively about anyone on this cast.
Speaker 3: I don't want to say anything. I have not said
Speaker 3: a word. Other peop have said a lot of words
Speaker 3: about me.
Speaker 5: But I've noticed that too, Jackie. But I think they
Speaker 5: just want everyone to be quiet right now, to quiet
Speaker 5: the noise so that they can make decisions with like
Speaker 5: a fresh sort of unbiased mindset. And they can't do
Speaker 5: that right now when everyone's yap, yap, yappen right. So,
Speaker 5: and I am talking about the fans in this case
Speaker 5: because that is a big part of it. The fans
Speaker 5: demanding certain people leave or go is not really healthy
Speaker 5: fort to that some of it. Yes, they do surveys,
Speaker 5: they pay attention to sort of who has popularity, but
Speaker 5: ultimately they've fired a lot of people who people really loved,
Speaker 5: and they've gotten a lot of flak for that. They
Speaker 5: fired Pedra after season nine of Atlanta, and the fans
Speaker 5: were really upset that they didn't get to see a
Speaker 5: redemption arc from her, and that's why the in moving forward,
Speaker 5: they tried to stick with people even after they had
Speaker 5: had bad seasons, to see if there was opportunities for
Speaker 5: groups to shift and change. There's no sort of there's
Speaker 5: no black and white with it. It really is great.
Speaker 5: They're really like figuring it out as they go.
Speaker 4: I have a question because you watched The Housewife, these careers,
Speaker 4: these women that have really gone through it, and then
Speaker 4: they went, would you a woman you love? Your best
Speaker 4: friend says they want me on. I'm just curious and
Speaker 4: you have to You can't just say, listen, do what's
Speaker 4: good for you? Like, what do you think someone you love?
Speaker 5: Oh God, it's so funny that you asked that question,
Speaker 5: because I think that if you called up Nina Ali
Speaker 5: from the Real house So I said, Dubai, who I
Speaker 5: knew before she became a housewife, she will tell you
Speaker 5: the story about how I told her don't do it.
Speaker 4: Really no, because most of the people that I love
Speaker 4: said don't do it, and they are not you. They
Speaker 4: don't have the insight and they haven't been you know,
Speaker 4: they don't have all the information like you do.
Speaker 5: I just, ultimately, and I said it to her in
Speaker 5: the sense of, like, here's all the things that you
Speaker 5: need to be aware of and don't do it. If
Speaker 5: you're not going to be able to do this right,
Speaker 5: don't do it. If you're not going to be strong
Speaker 5: enough deep down to love yourself no matter what anyone says,
Speaker 5: I couldn't do it. If you say this all the time,
Speaker 5: if you threw a glass of wine in my face,
Speaker 5: I would apologize to you. I would say, I'm so
Speaker 5: sorry I made you do that. I do not love
Speaker 5: myself that much. I do not have that strong sense
Speaker 5: of who I am enough.
Speaker 2: How is that possible? I know, serious everybody you enough
Speaker 2: a lot.
Speaker 5: Of abandonment issues, but people who I thought loved me
Speaker 5: who didn't. And when you don't have that unconditional love
Speaker 5: you know, rue says all the time, RuPaul, if you
Speaker 5: can't love yourself, how can you expect anyone else to?
Speaker 5: I struggle with that a lot, and I would not
Speaker 5: want to be on this show because I would really
Speaker 5: struggle with what people say. I mean, I don't have
Speaker 5: social media at all right now, I've deleted everything.
Speaker 3: How does that feel it feels?
Speaker 2: Do you feel disconnected?
Speaker 6: Yes? But also okay with that?
Speaker 5: Like I got rid of it because I went through
Speaker 5: a really difficult breakup, and I didn't want to be
Speaker 5: able to see what that person was doing, or have
Speaker 5: that person see what I was doing, and feel as
Speaker 5: though I was posting things for someone else or for
Speaker 5: anyone else, like to, you know, to show myself as
Speaker 5: either healthy or unhappy or whatever it may be. I
Speaker 5: just didn't want to feel that pressure of being in
Speaker 5: that environment.
Speaker 6: And without it, I feel really relieved.
Speaker 5: But I also feel like I'm missing out on things.
Speaker 5: I feel like there's a whole life that I don't know.
Speaker 5: It's funny. I saw Canda's Dillard. I went to her
Speaker 5: baby shower on Saturday. Oh oh, she looks so beautiful.
Speaker 6: I went down to d C.
Speaker 5: She looks absolutely gorgeous. It's so kind of her to
Speaker 5: invite me, and we've built a good friendship over the years,
Speaker 5: and I was like, I'm so so happy for you,
Speaker 5: and I'm like, how's the baby. She's like, oh, he's
Speaker 5: killing me. I go, oh my god, it's a boy.
Speaker 5: She's like, oh yeah, she was like I announced that
Speaker 5: weeks ago. Well I didn't know because I had I'm
Speaker 5: not on social media. It didn't exist.
Speaker 6: Until she told it to me with her own voice.
Speaker 3: So yeah, right, yeah, but like the real life connections.
Speaker 1: I mean, you went off for a little bit the
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties again, Yeah, I went off for a few
Speaker 1: weeks just because I knew that I wouldn't deal so
Speaker 1: well with all of the bad stuff. You know, But
Speaker 1: you know, it's all, it all just exists in your little.
Speaker 4: Box, saying I don't know if you guys feel like this,
Speaker 4: but like, there are certain things that people can say
Speaker 4: about me on social media and it doesn't bother me
Speaker 4: at all. And usually that's around my physicality, Like I
Speaker 4: don't you think I look like a man? I think
Speaker 4: that's funny. I don't have I don't get like thrown
Speaker 4: by that. And it's not because I think that I
Speaker 4: have plenty of insecurity about the way that I look.
Speaker 4: But for some reason, that kind of stuff doesn't hit me.
Speaker 4: It's other stuff. It's the she's fake, Yeah, she's you know, uh,
Speaker 4: because that's who you are, like me like that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: the silly stuff doesn't really get to me. It's just
Speaker 4: it's it's the really the stuff that goes after my
Speaker 4: character that really like bugs me.
Speaker 6: And look, I'm not on TV.
Speaker 5: But when people have said that about me, when people
Speaker 5: have said things about me that I think we're against
Speaker 5: what my character is and questioned my integrity and made
Speaker 5: assumptions about things that I've done, And that's.
Speaker 6: Really been hurtful to me because at the end of
Speaker 6: the day, that's not who I am, like.
Speaker 5: I care so deeply about being able to put my
Speaker 5: head down at the end of the night knowing I
Speaker 5: haven't hurt anybody.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that I think Vegas needs to start
Speaker 1: taking odds on who's going to come who's going to
Speaker 1: come back, because.
Speaker 3: It is a hot topic.
Speaker 1: I don't want to keep you any mind, but no,
Speaker 1: I want to keep you forever.
Speaker 4: But so maybe we need a part too. I was
Speaker 4: about to say that about what happens next. I just
Speaker 4: think it's so all of this is so fascinating.
Speaker 2: What is it going to say? No, No, guys, once
Speaker 2: was enough.
Speaker 5: I care deeply about both of you. I'd be happy
Speaker 5: to be here anytime. I'm honored that you asked. And honestly,
Speaker 5: what I hope that fans get when they sort of
Speaker 5: see these things is that these are real people. You
Speaker 5: are actually real, You're not a character, You're not scripted,
Speaker 5: no one's told you what to say, You're produced don't
Speaker 5: get me wrong. You know, like they've put you in
Speaker 5: situations that you normally wouldn't be in, but there hasn't
Speaker 5: really been a care for how you solve those. You know,
Speaker 5: when all of the things happened to both of you
Speaker 5: this season that happened, did anyone call you up afterwards
Speaker 5: and say, how are you doing?
Speaker 6: What can I help you with?
Speaker 5: No? I mean that's not really there for you. And
Speaker 5: that's so hard to have to just go through it
Speaker 5: without really having anyone taken care of your mental health.
Speaker 5: If anybody was going to be a housewife, I would
Speaker 5: say get a good therapist right from the get go.
Speaker 5: Hire a social media manager who is fully in charge
Speaker 5: of all of your social media so you never even
Speaker 5: have to look at it once. And I know people
Speaker 5: who are always like my makeup artist showed this to me,
Speaker 5: but I.
Speaker 6: Never check it. No, you check it.
Speaker 5: You're all looking because you're obsessed. And I get it,
Speaker 5: But you really have to protect yourself from these things. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and remember the people who are in your life who
Speaker 5: actually want who care about you and don't want something
Speaker 5: from you, who aren't looking for anything from you, They're
Speaker 5: just here to give to you with whatever they may
Speaker 5: be able to offer you because.
Speaker 6: A lot of people pop around you.
Speaker 5: And they just they want what can I get from you?
Speaker 3: And I love that and I love you.
Speaker 2: Do you ever want to be a therapist?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I could see that on you as a side joy.
Speaker 5: Uh No, I've never wanted to do that because I'm I.
Speaker 5: I think I would really, I think he is.
Speaker 4: He is the go to for I think you'd be
Speaker 4: like the best sponsor ever. Like if I was an AA,
Speaker 4: I would not let you get out that door.
Speaker 5: That's really what I need to do. I forget being
Speaker 5: a therapist. I need to build like a housewives and
Speaker 5: not miss. Yes, that's a build.
Speaker 1: We can all sit around a room and like tell
Speaker 1: our stories my god like circle of trust.
Speaker 6: Right, that's what?
Speaker 4: And when is the way you need to do is
Speaker 4: write another book? Oh yeah, we're waiting time, poor.
Speaker 5: Suffering agent who is always like, when is that proposal
Speaker 5: coming up?
Speaker 3: I'm not fair, it's not nice.
Speaker 2: It's enough.
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 3: How many times can we read Diamonds and Jose Dave?
Speaker 3: We love you.
Speaker 5: I love you both too, and honestly, no matter what happens,
Speaker 5: you both matter. I just want to let you know
Speaker 5: that I know that's so silly and stupid to hear.
Speaker 3: No, it's not.
Speaker 4: It's not as you're saying. I'm like, Jackie, I hope
Speaker 4: you're taking that in. I'm taking that in no seriously
Speaker 4: because it's like, it's not just words. It actually you're
Speaker 4: saying something important because it's because the show makes you
Speaker 4: think that you can. It's very tricky, like you don't
Speaker 4: matter because you're on this show, and you don't matter
Speaker 4: because of all of a sudden you're famous.
Speaker 2: You just matter period.
Speaker 5: The things that you have given people are powerful. We
Speaker 5: all look at the show and quote the silly fights
Speaker 5: and you know, the outrageous moments. But the truth is
Speaker 5: the majority of people feel connected to reality and reality
Speaker 5: stars because they see something in them that they've never
Speaker 5: been able to do. Do you know women understood how
Speaker 5: they could get through a divorce from watching Housewives go
Speaker 5: through it? How many women understood how they could get
Speaker 5: through domestic abuse after watching Taylor Armstrong talk about it
Speaker 5: and the River Housewives of Beverly Hills, or an eating
Speaker 5: disorder after watching someone like Jackie Goldschneider talk about it
Speaker 5: so passionately and publicly and show the good and the
Speaker 5: bad and the ugly around it. These things are the
Speaker 5: things that matter. Representation matters, so and I can tell
Speaker 5: you that as a gay man who grew up at
Speaker 5: a time where I thought everyone was dying of AIDS,
Speaker 5: I thought that was my future. I was going to
Speaker 5: die of AIDS. And then reality TV showed gay people
Speaker 5: and over the course of twenty years, it's shifted the
Speaker 5: entire cultural conversation around homosexuality. It's the same thing were
Speaker 5: mattering to people, not through your silliness, but through your
Speaker 5: examples of who you are. You walking out of that room, Jen,
Speaker 5: saying I can't be in here is something that other
Speaker 5: women are watching and saying, oh my god, I can
Speaker 5: remove myself from situations. And it's I mean, you're saying
Speaker 5: to yourself, why would they think that? That's ridiculous? But
Speaker 5: it's true.
Speaker 4: You know how many people have said out Dave, that's
Speaker 4: so funny because I had mixed reviews on it, But
Speaker 4: so much of what you just described of women saying
Speaker 4: to me, I don't Jenn, I felt so good about
Speaker 4: you walking out of that room.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I didn't think it through in that moment. I mean,
Speaker 4: I wasn't you know, it was just something that I
Speaker 4: needed to do for myself.
Speaker 1: But my walking out of the room was a meme,
Speaker 1: so we could end up walking out of the room conversation.
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding.
Speaker 5: Well, remember yourself in that situation when you think about
Speaker 5: what's it?
Speaker 6: Could it be? Oh my god, this is going to
Speaker 6: be gone? What do I do?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 5: If those thoughts come into your head, if you start
Speaker 5: talking down to yourself, remember that you actually had impacts
Speaker 5: in people's lives. That's the thing that matters the most.
Speaker 5: And you can still find ways to make impacts in
Speaker 5: their lives. You just don't have to do it while
Speaker 5: also calling someone a bitch or horror flipping or whatever.
Speaker 1: And on that note, love you so much, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, seriously.
Speaker 4: Love you so much. It has I mean, I feel
Speaker 4: like there's so we're going to do a part two.
Speaker 4: There's going to be a doesn't even have to be
Speaker 4: about leaving. It could be staying, it could be going,
Speaker 4: it could be whatever.
Speaker 5: It is.
Speaker 2: Just you are, you are a master.
Speaker 6: Yes, it's very kind.
Speaker 2: I'm here and we love you.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 5: Congratulations on the continued sex of the second Let me
Speaker 5: try that again.
Speaker 4: We don't have sex yet, but who knows if we're
Speaker 4: out of a job, we may want to make people watch.
Speaker 5: Congratulations on the continued success of the show.
Speaker 2: I'm so hapd to you.
Speaker 4: Thank you, yes, okay, love you you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Bye.
Speaker 3: I could talk to Dave all day, and not just
Speaker 3: about housewives.
Speaker 4: You could tell that he's just you know, a lot
Speaker 4: of people also that I think, I feel like we're
Speaker 4: in a program or in a twelve step program. There
Speaker 4: just they just have more insight than the rest of us.
Speaker 4: I used to be and I used to go to
Speaker 4: overreaders anonymous for years in my twenties when I was,
Speaker 4: you know, battling blameia, and sometimes I talk to someone
Speaker 4: like Dave and like, I miss it, I missed the meetings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, to be honest, recovery, you become a
Speaker 1: deeper thinker, like you start to think about all the
Speaker 1: things that make you special and why you thought that
Speaker 1: the thing you were abusing made you feel good, right,
Speaker 1: you know, so you start to reckon with all of that,
Speaker 1: which I think will actually really help me if the
Speaker 1: show does end like that feeling of you know, when
Speaker 1: I first started the show, it really I was addicted
Speaker 1: to it because it made me feel special, and over
Speaker 1: the years, I've kind of realized the other things that
Speaker 1: make me feel special, So it's not just this anymore,
Speaker 1: which makes me feel like I would.
Speaker 2: Be Okay, hello, I love that.
Speaker 3: But Dave is so brilliant we do need a part two.
Speaker 2: He is just there's just something about that guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I always say this, there's a few things
Speaker 1: from the show that like, no matter what happens with it,
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have recovered without Yeah, you
Speaker 1: could do it so publicly, and like my friendship with
Speaker 1: you is just something that, no matter what happens with
Speaker 1: the show, will always well, it's just so beautiful and
Speaker 1: like they're just going to be grateful for the things
Speaker 1: that came from it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 4: Yes, all right, you guys, Like, Yeah, I feel like
Speaker 4: I wish I could hear from you guys more. I
Speaker 4: don't know Jack and our producers on I mean, had
Speaker 4: it like you guys, maybe on our even Instagram, our
Speaker 4: Instagram page, just like there's things you feel like you
Speaker 4: would want us to discuss. Yeah, looks like we're having
Speaker 4: some more episodes that we're getting. Uh, just a little
Speaker 4: sidebar here, but we did get renewed for another season.
Speaker 2: Season is that what.
Speaker 3: We call this a season? So I guess another year.
Speaker 4: So I don't know about what's happening uh for the
Speaker 4: Housewives of Jersey, but the Jersey Jays are going to
Speaker 4: see again next season.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 4: And on that note, on that note, so yeah deep DMS,
Speaker 4: if you couldn't there's anything you guys think that we
Speaker 4: would talk about out that you'd be really interested in.
Speaker 3: Fabulous Yeah Instagram.
Speaker 2: Love you guys, Thank you so much. Bye guys,