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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did

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Speaker 1: Cool Stuff. You're twice a week reminder that when bad

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Speaker 1: things happened, good things can happen too. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Margaret Kiljoy, and my guest this week is bridget Ton Hi.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Margaret, thank you so much for having me so

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Speaker 2: excited to be here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, on this day, that's totally a different day than

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Speaker 1: the previous day, as we all, Yeah, what are you

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Speaker 1: talking about? As we all pretend like nothing and terrible

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Speaker 1: is happening in the world that it makes it really

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Speaker 1: hard to do any job. I'm sure whatever job you

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Speaker 1: have listening to this, I'm sure it's hard for you

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Speaker 1: to do your job this week, last week, next week.

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Speaker 3: Any week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But bridget Todd is the host of There Are

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Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet and is also cool And

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Speaker 1: you can go back and listen to a bunch of

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Speaker 1: episodes that she's been on this show if you want,

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Speaker 1: you should, you should. Yeah. Our producer this week, actually

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Speaker 1: always our producer, just not the one who's often on

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Speaker 1: Mike is Ian. Hi. How are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm good, glad to be back, Excited to hear more

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Speaker 3: about public radio and see where this journey takes us

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Speaker 3: because the first episode was very interesting and so I'm

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Speaker 3: sure this one will have some surprises as well. So

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Speaker 3: I'm excited to be back.

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Speaker 1: This one is like, well, I'll get to it, okay.

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Speaker 1: The first we have to thank our audio engineer, Eva.

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Speaker 2: Hi Eva hi Eva hi Eva.

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Speaker 1: And unwomen did our theme music, and this one okay,

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Speaker 1: But the confession I have to make. I promise you

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Speaker 1: are going to talk about the development of public radio,

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Speaker 1: and I will, but I'm not as much focusing on

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Speaker 1: the history of public radio as much as this one

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Speaker 1: guy who was part of it in the same way

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Speaker 1: that last episode was like, well I found this guy

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Speaker 1: and he does all this stuff and very little of

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Speaker 1: it is about radio, but he also invented radio. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to talk about a poet this week.

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Speaker 2: There should be big overlap between the poets of the

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Speaker 2: world and the public radio enthusiast slash officionados of the world.

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Speaker 1: There absolutely are. I remember once I was in art

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Speaker 1: school and my drawing teacher was this cool guy, and

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Speaker 1: the other students were like, what kind of music do

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Speaker 1: you listen to? You? And everyone's making guesses, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, jazz, he listens to jazz. Why is this

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Speaker 1: a question? And he was like, that's true, that's what

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Speaker 1: I listened to.

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Speaker 2: Of course, what else would it be?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, and that man listens to public radio,

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Speaker 1: you know, and like probably poetry, which is like I'm

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Speaker 1: describing a positive arc type of a person, you know,

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Speaker 1: And we'll kind of be talking about where a lot

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Speaker 1: of that archetype comes from, not all of it, because

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Speaker 1: actually only parts of it. Whatever I fell do on

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Speaker 1: such a deep rabbit hole this week, that this is

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Speaker 1: where I ended up at the bottom of the rabbit hole.

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Speaker 1: And that is what this show is is Margaret picks

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Speaker 1: a topic, falls down rabbit holes, and then stitches together

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Speaker 1: what is hopefully entertaining and educational. You a big poetry reader,

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Speaker 1: and bridget I have been.

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Speaker 2: I went to grad school for literature, and part of

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Speaker 2: that was studying a lot of poetry. Oh shit, I've

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Speaker 2: fallen off of it a bit lately, but there was

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Speaker 2: a time in my life where poetry was very, very

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Speaker 2: important to me.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome.

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Speaker 2: Much like any kind of nerdy high school kid who

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Speaker 2: thought they were super smart.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to be talking about one of those

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Speaker 1: people that nerdy high school kids who are super smart either. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my people. Yeah, I really liked poetry in high school,

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Speaker 1: and then I pretended I didn't like poetry for at

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Speaker 1: least ten years because I didn't want to read my

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Speaker 1: friend's poetry.

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Speaker 2: Oh was it bad? Were you worried it was going

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Speaker 2: to be bad?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Because like anytime a friend is like, hey, look

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Speaker 1: at this piece of art I made, You're now stuck

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Speaker 1: in a situation where you have to lie, tell the truth,

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Speaker 1: or get lucky and like it.

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Speaker 3: Those are you only like do you want to be

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Speaker 3: a good friend or do you want to be honest?

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Speaker 3: And it's a conundrum, right, I love that.

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Speaker 2: Liking it is like you might hit the jackpod and

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Speaker 2: get lucky on a gamble and think it's not bad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And that's what poetry is like for me,

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Speaker 1: is that I think most poetry is not exciting to me,

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Speaker 1: but then it's funny because like recently, I've just been

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Speaker 1: more and more like, now that is really good poetry.

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Speaker 1: It's been meaning a lot to me.

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Speaker 2: Again, do you have a favorite poet?

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Speaker 1: Oh, lord, do I have a favorite poet? Like right now,

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Speaker 1: literally I just read a bunch of poems by the

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Speaker 1: subject of today's episode, and so I'm going to say

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Speaker 1: him right now, but that's not true in a broader sense.

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Speaker 1: I just can't ever remember. It's like when I'm on

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Speaker 1: tour with books and people are like, what other books

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Speaker 1: do you like? And I'm like, I've never heard of

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Speaker 1: a book.

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Speaker 2: I've never read a book in my life. Yeah, you

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Speaker 2: turn into Sarah Palin being asked what newspapers she reads

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Speaker 2: all of them? Everyone, Yeah, I can't think of a

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Speaker 2: single one right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I like the poetry that's poetic. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite poet?

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Speaker 2: Ooh. I will say a poet that was very important

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Speaker 2: and meaningful to me when I was in high school

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Speaker 2: with E. Cummings, And so if you would have asked

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Speaker 2: me in high school, I probably would have said Cummings.

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Speaker 2: Today I would say Nikki Giovanni. She was a poet.

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Speaker 2: My parents were very into. She passed away recently. I

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Speaker 2: am obsessed with her. She has a thug life tattoo

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Speaker 2: on her arm despite being a little old lady.

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Speaker 1: Oh fuck yeah.

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Speaker 2: And fun fact, she tried to prevent the Virginia Tech

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Speaker 2: massacre from happening, but she was ignored because she's a

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Speaker 2: black woman. And if they had listened to her, it

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Speaker 2: might not have happened. Fun fact, a poet who tried

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Speaker 2: to prevent a school shooting.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm like, do I need to deep

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Speaker 1: dive this person for an episode?

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Speaker 2: She's just an interesting poet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough, Okay. Andrea Gibson is a poet who

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Speaker 1: died recently who I really liked the poetry of. And

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Speaker 1: in high school my English teacher got me to read

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Speaker 1: Langston Hughes and it like changed the way I perceive

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Speaker 1: a lot of things and that was really useful to me.

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Speaker 2: Hughes is one of my favorite poets as well. I've

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Speaker 2: often said that any feeling that I have ever had

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Speaker 2: and tried to convey in words, Hughes has already had

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Speaker 2: that and done a better job of conveying it in

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Speaker 2: words than I ever would be able to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you have you ever heard of Kenneth Rexroth?

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Speaker 2: I have not.

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Speaker 1: You read The Beats much, so.

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Speaker 2: It's funny that you say this. I just had an

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Speaker 2: argument about the Beats after watching the movie Inherent Vice,

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Speaker 2: which is a movie version of a beat novel. I

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Speaker 2: have a hot take about the Beats. I think that

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Speaker 2: other than so, the poetry this is only for the fiction,

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Speaker 2: and I guess some of the nonfiction. I think that

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Speaker 2: people who say that they like long works of the

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Speaker 2: beat writers are lying, Like because I was talking to

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Speaker 2: somebody and I was like, you've never read Inherent Vice.

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Speaker 2: Come on, genuinely go back to some of that beat

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Speaker 2: writing and try to read it and tell me that

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Speaker 2: it's something that you're enjoying, understanding, resonating with you. I

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Speaker 2: challenge you. I challenge you.

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Speaker 1: When I was like a young hitchhiking, train hopping anarchist

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Speaker 1: or whatever, people kept being like, oh, wow, your life

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Speaker 1: is just like on the Road. And I never read

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Speaker 1: On the Road. And I had this like oppositional like

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Speaker 1: no way, that guy's fucking like, fuck that guy. And

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Speaker 1: then I was in this tree set for a couple

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Speaker 1: of days and literally the only book was On the Road,

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Speaker 1: and I tried to read it, and then I stared

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Speaker 1: at the sky for three days instead.

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Speaker 2: Margaret, I have also tried to read it because I

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Speaker 2: wanted to be when I was in high school. Of course,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be able to say it's my favorite book, right,

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Speaker 2: I will own could not make it through it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: people who say that, they're like, oh, I read this

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Speaker 2: and I really found a lot of profoundness in it.

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Speaker 2: I challenge you, because I feel like they got the gist,

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Speaker 2: but they have not actually set down and done a

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Speaker 2: real deep read.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know who else? This isn't an ad break?

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Speaker 1: Do you know? Holts did not like the Beats? Who

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Speaker 1: the godfather of the Beats, Kenneth Rexroth, the guy I'm

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Speaker 1: going to talk about today.

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Speaker 2: Like the inventor of the movement, was like, I'm good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like he's the guy who like set up the

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Speaker 1: literary salons that they came and spoke at and like

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Speaker 1: put his own cred on the line to like get

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Speaker 1: them promoted. And then he was like, honestly, these are

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Speaker 1: all a bunch of posers.

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Speaker 2: Him and me both feel that way. Another one Naked Lunch.

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Speaker 2: Find me somebody who has actually read Naked Lunch, and

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Speaker 2: I won't show you a liar.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to read Naked Lunch so many times because yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is who I wanted to be. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be like Burrows. Yeah all right, I keep running across

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Speaker 1: this thing in history where the radical literary figures are

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Speaker 1: the main inspiration for the figures who come after them.

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Speaker 1: Like you have someone who's super radical and they'll be

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Speaker 1: really important to a bunch of people who are less

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Speaker 1: radical who get way more famous. And Kenneth Rexroth might

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Speaker 1: be the ultimate example of this because he is much

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Speaker 1: more interesting to me. And actually I won't even want

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Speaker 1: to say all of the Beats, because there's people associated

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Speaker 1: with that movement who actually think are really interesting. I

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Speaker 1: think people call Dan the Prima a beat, but I

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Speaker 1: can't remember. Anyway. Whatever this makes it sound like I

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Speaker 1: knew everything about poetry, I do not. Kenneth Rexroth was

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Speaker 1: born in Indiana in nineteen oh five to a radical

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Speaker 1: family in the US tradition, which is to say, his

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Speaker 1: family going back a couple generations used labels like feminist, abolitionist, freethinker, socialist,

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Speaker 1: and anarchist. But he was orphaned at age twelve, and

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Speaker 1: he grew up in Chicago, surrounded by all the cool

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Speaker 1: bohemian artsy types in Chicago at the time. He didn't

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Speaker 1: really bother to do the school thing, but he instead

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Speaker 1: taught himself a whole bunch of languages and then if

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Speaker 1: you want to check off some cool people, bingo, if

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Speaker 1: you have your Bingo card out. He joined the industrial

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Speaker 1: workers of the world. The IWW, the union that ends

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Speaker 1: up interwoven into like half of the history if it's

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Speaker 1: about nineteen oh six to nineteen thirty.

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Speaker 2: I've heard you mention it many times.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, rex Rof. He was a wobbly, which is

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Speaker 1: the word for someone who's in this to the end

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Speaker 1: of his days. Rex Roth often opened his letters with

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Speaker 1: the sort of cliche IWW salutation dear fellow worker. Later,

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Speaker 1: he talked about maybe one of his earliest experiences of

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Speaker 1: class based on his youth, in a poem from nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty six called Portrait of the Author as a young Anarchist.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to read a little bit of this poem.

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Speaker 1: There were two classes of kids, and they had nothing

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Speaker 1: in common. The rich kids who worked as caddies and

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Speaker 1: the poor kids who snitched golf balls. I belonged to

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Speaker 1: the saving group of exceptionalists who after dark and on

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Speaker 1: rainy days stole out and shat in the golf holes.

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Speaker 1: Pretty good. Yeah, So that's the kind of kid he was.

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Speaker 1: He's like those two kinds of kids. There's the rich

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Speaker 1: ones and the poor ones, and then there's us. So

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Speaker 1: this orphan who teaches himself a bunch of languages, becomes

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Speaker 1: a hobo for a while. He works all sorts of

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Speaker 1: odd labor jobs including cowboy cook, cowboy farmer Forrester, toothbrush maker,

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Speaker 1: diet pamphlet seller, and deckhand.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's quite the range.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, fortunately, and again it's not an ad break. I

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Speaker 1: think we have diet pills banned from our shows, so

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Speaker 1: I can't say I have that one in common with him.

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Speaker 1: I actually have, uh, none of these in common with him.

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Speaker 1: But he deckhanded his way over to France pretty early

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Speaker 1: on in his life, and there he met a political exile,

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Speaker 1: a recurring character on the show, Alexander Berkman, who is

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Speaker 1: an anarchist, mostly famous these days for being the sometimes

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Speaker 1: spurned lover of Emma Goldman, a more famous like birth

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Speaker 1: control pioneer anarchist, but he was more famous at the time.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of why he was living in

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Speaker 1: France is because he spent a bunch of years in

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Speaker 1: prison because he absolutely shot and stabbed a strike breaking

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Speaker 1: industrialist named Henry Clayfrick. Betah, I know. Unfortunately Frick survived

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Speaker 1: both being tabbed and shot.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, little Johnny live a lot over here.

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Speaker 1: I know, anyway, So rex Roth meets this would be assassin.

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Speaker 1: He's probably one of his heroes AND's you know, written

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Speaker 1: a lot of books about anarchism and stuff, and Berkman

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Speaker 1: is like, don't just become another fucking expatriot in Paris.

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Speaker 1: What the fuck? And so he's like, all right. So

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Speaker 1: he goes home to Chicago, and I feel like that

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Speaker 1: was like good lesson moment. And so he gets married

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Speaker 1: when he's back in Chicago. And as always, when I

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Speaker 1: talk about famous men who dated women, the women are

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Speaker 1: left out of the story and I have to dig

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Speaker 1: incredibly hard to find who they interacted with and how

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Speaker 1: they treated those people. Rex Roth is tricky to understand

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Speaker 1: his relationship to women. Best as I can tell, he

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Speaker 1: is bisexual and promiscuous. One friend said about him, he'd

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Speaker 1: fuck a snake if it would hold still.

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Speaker 2: I love that his friends were like, oh, very promiscuous, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like that being a notable thing is I like that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And it's like one of those things where like

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Speaker 1: that can go okay, and that can go really badly

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Speaker 1: in terms of a quality of person right, And I

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Speaker 1: can't tell. Rex Roth himself once complained that he might

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Speaker 1: have permanently damaged his own mouth and throat by fucking,

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Speaker 1: which I think means this guy sucked a prodigious amount

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Speaker 1: of dick. Sounds like it, Yeah, yeah, just a prodigious amount.

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Speaker 1: He got married four times in his life, always to women.

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Speaker 1: One of his wives would leave him and claim gross

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Speaker 1: abuse in the divorce papers. She left him for the

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Speaker 1: married marriage counselor that the pair of them were seen,

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Speaker 1: so him and his wife went to go to marriage counseling,

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Speaker 1: and then his wife left him, and the marriage counselor

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Speaker 1: left his wife and they got married.

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Speaker 2: Messy, messy, messy.

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Speaker 1: Right, Which doesn't mean that she's lying about how rex

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Speaker 1: Roth treated her, but it sure is messy. I think

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Speaker 1: he saw his partners as his partners. He seemed to

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Speaker 1: be genuinely kinder and more supportive of women in general,

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Speaker 1: not just women he wanted to fuck, than he was

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Speaker 1: of men. Like there was this thing when people would

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Speaker 1: talk about him and they were like, he was like

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Speaker 1: Caddie and he would always talk shit on men, and

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Speaker 1: he would like, you know, if a man wasn't in

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Speaker 1: the room, he'd be like, oh fuck that guy, blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah, And he like never talks shit about women, and.

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Speaker 2: Notably, it sounds like not just the women that he

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Speaker 2: was sexually asstreacted to, just women generally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the best I can figure out. There is

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Speaker 1: a biography of him that was written that is very

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Speaker 1: negative about the way he treats women, but then a

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Speaker 1: bunch of people who knew him wrote like long, piece

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Speaker 1: by piece responses. I spent way more time this week

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Speaker 1: about how this man treated women, and I'm left with

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I suspect he's one of those people

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Speaker 1: who's like, I love sex, I love women, I don't

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Speaker 1: always treat them right, but I also like care. He

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Speaker 1: was an active part of the feminist movement in the

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Speaker 1: forties and fifties.

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Speaker 2: I feel like anybody who is in a leftist or

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Speaker 2: socially social justice inclined space in their life knows that

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Speaker 2: kind of guy. Yeah, I definitely I know that guy.

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Speaker 2: I've been mixed up with that guy before.

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Speaker 1: I know. I think he's not the really bad version

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Speaker 1: of that guy, but he's the other version of that guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's my guess.

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Speaker 2: They're always charming, that guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he might have sucked a date. He spent his

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Speaker 1: entire life translating women poets that was like his main

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Speaker 1: thing he did was translate women into English. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: That's my big takeaway is I don't know. But do

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Speaker 1: you know what I do know that I have very

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Speaker 1: little control over the advertisers who hypotize on this show.

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Speaker 2: Except for diet stuff. If you hear one of those,

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Speaker 2: that's true.

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Speaker 1: There's a couple categories that you shouldn't hear, and if

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Speaker 1: you do, it's a problem. But here's the ads and

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Speaker 1: we're back. So young Kenneth Rexroth and his wife moved

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Speaker 1: to San Francisco in nineteen twenty seven, when Kenneth is

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Speaker 1: twenty two years old. When he gets there, he starts

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Speaker 1: working to help organize the dock workers. And then the

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Speaker 1: New Deal came around and it hired out of work

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Speaker 1: writers to write travel guides, and so this young anarchist

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Speaker 1: is hired to write the official travel guide to San

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Speaker 1: Francisco in California for the US government. And I actually

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Speaker 1: think this might be one of these strange little moments

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Speaker 1: in history with a huge outsized effect because Kenneth Rexroth,

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Speaker 1: the pacifist, anarchist, feminist who is really into spirituality in

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Speaker 1: class war becomes one of the most important cultural figures

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Speaker 1: in San Francisco history. He is literally writing the book

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Speaker 1: about it in the thirties, and so it helps set

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Speaker 1: up the culture, the like cool literary artsy queer, et

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Speaker 1: cetera culture of the Bay. This hobo kid is part

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Speaker 1: of the reason that that happens, as far as I

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Speaker 1: can tell.

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Speaker 2: And if they had gotten someone different to write that,

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Speaker 2: I mean, right, would our entire understanding of that time

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Speaker 2: and place be completely different?

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Speaker 1: I know. But then it's really funny, right because this

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Speaker 1: like really liberal, cool little town also gives us Silicon Valley, right,

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Speaker 1: and so like maybe the world would be better, but

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Speaker 1: it's just been another like normal ass town with normal

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Speaker 1: ass politics.

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Speaker 2: That's like, that is so funny of that one decision.

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Speaker 2: What were the reverberations throughout history? Like like what did

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Speaker 2: it get us today? That's so funny, and you.

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Speaker 1: Know, and there's all these other things that were like

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Speaker 1: causing San Francisco to have that culture for him to

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Speaker 1: write about it, but he's emphasizing this part of it,

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Speaker 1: and he's also going to later do a lot of

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Speaker 1: the organizing that is going to make the literary renaissance

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Speaker 1: of San Francisco happen. And he was not subtle about

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Speaker 1: his politics. He was not just a like, I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of progressive. He once wrote, quote, the socialist and trade

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Speaker 1: union movements in the West have functioned, in reality, not

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Speaker 1: just as governors to ensure that steam is let off

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Speaker 1: when the pressure gets too high, not just as what

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Speaker 1: are now called fail safe devices, though they are certainly that,

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Speaker 1: but as essential parts of the motive organization of capitalism.

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Speaker 1: More in other words, like the carburetors that ensure they'll

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Speaker 1: be just the right mixture of fuel and air for

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Speaker 1: each new demand of the engine. Wow. So he's like, Ah,

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Speaker 1: these like socialists and trade unions aren't radical enough. Fuck them,

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Speaker 1: like not.

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Speaker 2: To you find a point on it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But during World War Two, the stuff he does

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Speaker 1: here is actually the reason I was like, Oh, this

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Speaker 1: guy's going to be the person talk about and the

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Speaker 1: first part of it, it's like, fine, whatever. He's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not into the whole war thing. I'm a pacifist,

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Speaker 1: and this is ideologically consistent. He refuses to join. He's

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Speaker 1: a conscientious objector. I have no problem with the US

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Speaker 1: entry in World War two and killing the Nazis. This

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Speaker 1: seems like one of the few things that it's like

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Speaker 1: this in the Civil War, the two things that I

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Speaker 1: can point at the US government and being like, well

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Speaker 1: they were on the right side of that one, got

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Speaker 1: that one right, Yeah, But he registers as a conscientious objector.

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Speaker 1: He does his service as an aid in a psychiatric

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Speaker 1: ward instead of the military. And then during the war,

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Speaker 1: he and his wife, I believe his second wife, a

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Speaker 1: nurse named Marie, did about the most base thing that

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Speaker 1: the two white people in San Francisco can do, which

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Speaker 1: is that they worked tirelessly and endlessly to help Japanese

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Speaker 1: Americans in the wake of the incredible racism and the

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Speaker 1: whole concentration camp thing. He didn't just write about it

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Speaker 1: as a problem, though, that would have been leaps and

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Speaker 1: bounds better than most white people at the time, who

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Speaker 1: were like, ah, this is great. You know. They noticed

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Speaker 1: that racism was on the rise before the concentration camps opened,

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Speaker 1: and they befriended Japanese Americans to ask them how to help,

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Speaker 1: and were like, what do you all need? Once the

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Speaker 1: camps opened, the two of them coordinated with imprisoned Japanese

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Speaker 1: librarians to open libraries in the camps. They collected Japanese

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Speaker 1: language books to get them into the camps for the

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Speaker 1: first generation immigrants. And this was like a huge uphill

401
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Speaker 1: fight because like every single time they get Japanese books

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Speaker 1: into the camps, the guards would be like, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: written in Japanese, it has to get thrown out. We're

404
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Speaker 1: shitty racists, you know, and they would keep doing it.

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Speaker 1: They would also show up with supplies again and again.

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Speaker 1: At the local camp. Marie volunteered as a nurse because

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Speaker 1: the medical clinics were run by the Japanese internees with

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Speaker 1: fucking prisoners, and so she would show up and help them.

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Speaker 1: And when he wrote about the place, he called them

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Speaker 1: concentration camps, which was like no one was doing at

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Speaker 1: the time. And then the two of them just helped

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Speaker 1: people just not go to the concentration camps. Most of

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Speaker 1: this was legal work. The Army was overwhelmed. So the

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Speaker 1: rex Ross went up and were like, Hey, you're kind

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Speaker 1: of overwhelmed anyway, what if we get your internees educational

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Speaker 1: passes to go out of the camp and go to

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Speaker 1: art school in Chicago. The Army was like, yeah, whatever,

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Speaker 1: just kind of wild, and so they helped dozens of

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Speaker 1: people get into the Midwest Art Academy of Chicago, and

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Speaker 1: they would drive them to the train station and shit,

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Speaker 1: and they would hold onto their belongings while they were gone.

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Speaker 1: And like their house was just I think it just

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Speaker 1: was basically a storage unit for people who were fucking

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Speaker 1: imprisoned or like escaping imprisonment. Another one of their friends

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Speaker 1: they just straight up helped evade capture, like there was

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Speaker 1: like a guy they were trying to catch, or a

427
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Speaker 1: person they were trying to catch. It actually their gender

428
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Speaker 1: wasn't noted and the piece that I read, and so

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Speaker 1: they gave their friend contacts out east with people to

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Speaker 1: lay low with and then held onto all their stuff,

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Speaker 1: which is what you should do if, for some weird

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Speaker 1: reason you live in a version of the United States

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Speaker 1: that has concentration camps where people are interned because of

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Speaker 1: their country of origin. You help people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I can't imagine that being something we

436
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 2: would have to deal with or think about today, but

437
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 2: if it were, that would be good advice.

438
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: Right, totally, exactly like history is so wild. People had

439
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,400
Speaker 1: such different things to deal with me too, God damn it.

440
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: And yeah, this is what the rex Roths do during

441
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: World War two. And this is where Kenneth rex Roth.

442
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: I know some negative stuff about Nneth Rexroth.

443
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 2: I mean he founds like the kind of person who

444
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 2: might not text you back.

445
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 1: Yeah totally. So, first of all, he's like, I found

446
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: a snake. Sorry you're out of the picture.

447
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,679
Speaker 3: I got snake plans tonight, Like, don't call me.

448
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: He just texts back the emoji of.

449
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 2: A snake, and you already know that's all he needs

450
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 2: to say.

451
00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. So he's also one one of the proto

452
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: white people getting proto hippies into like Eastern spirituality and culture,

453
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: and he comes at it I think earnestly. He is

454
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: a like lifelong Buddhist, and he is like one of

455
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: the main translators of women poets from China and Japan

456
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 1: into English, and he's like friends with folks and helping

457
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 1: them evade capture and all of these things. By my

458
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 1: read as a white person, it seems like he has

459
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 1: kind of done the work where he's like, I am

460
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: genuinely interested in this stuff. But he is one of

461
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: the people who introduces the like thing that becomes like

462
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: pop Buddhism, you know. And then possibly the most fucked

463
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: up thing I know about him doing is that At

464
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: one point he wrote a forgery pretending to be an

465
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: Asian woman of like poetry, where he was like, look

466
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: at this new book of poetry I translated and he

467
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 1: just had written it himself.

468
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, that's no good.

469
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: Uh well all right, yeah, I know, I know.

470
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 3: Nobody bats a thousand.

471
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. After the war, you have all of these exiles,

472
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,479
Speaker 1: like the surrealists, especially the more radical surrealists have like

473
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: fled Europe because of the war, and so all of

474
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: these like anarchist surrealists are in the Bay and he

475
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: helps run a magazine with them, and then he sets

476
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: up what later becomes the San Francisco Libertarian Circle. And

477
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: this is in the older use of that word of libertarian.

478
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: This is not what we would call libertarian. That it's

479
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: a word that the capitalists stole from anarchists. They like literally,

480
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: there's a quote I can't remember which guy it is,

481
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: one of the founders of libertarianism, probably Rothbard, has a

482
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: quote where he is like, we got one of their words.

483
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: It's ours now.

484
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: Ugh, of course totally fine to just say that.

485
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: Explicitly, yeah, exactly. And so the San Francisco Libertarian Circle,

486
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: it helps escape to Italian and Spanish anarchists, as well

487
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: as the conscientious objectors who are finally being released from

488
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: prison at the end of the war. This kind of

489
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: becomes more of a literary salon type thing. And at

490
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 1: these meetings he always cooked for them. He was, by

491
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: all accounts a fantastic cook, so he's willing to do,

492
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: you know, reproductive labor. He wrote about these salons and

493
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: his autobiography quote the place was always crowded, and when

494
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: the topic of the conversation of the evening was sex

495
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: and anarchy, you couldn't get in the doors. People were

496
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: standing on one another's shoulders, and we had to have

497
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: two meetings. The overflow in the downstairs meeting hall.

498
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 2: Tell me that doesn't sound like a good time. I know,

499
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 2: you know, a bunch of freaking promiscuous weirdos getting together

500
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: and talking about anarchy.

501
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: I met a time with had Yeah, it's certain. And

502
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: this is kind of what led to the beat movement.

503
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: The younger artists in that circle spun off into the beats,

504
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 1: and Kenneth Rexroth gets called the godfather of the beats,

505
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: and he was like ran the literary salon where how

506
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: was read by Ginsburg for the first time, and he

507
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: resented being called the godfather of the Beats, because he

508
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: was pretty soon accurately calling them hipsters who were adopting

509
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: the pose of being counterculture without committing to actually confronting

510
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: the system and building a better world.

511
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 2: I agree with him. I don't think he's wrong. I

512
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: think that I agree with that take.

513
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's interesting because most versions of this that

514
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: I've read have been like, oh, he's just jealous, And

515
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: he probably was jealous. But the historian George Woodcock was

516
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: friends with him and wrote about him quote more than

517
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: any other individual, he was responsible for the San Francisco

518
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: literary renaissance of the forties and fifties, though lesser men

519
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: like Lawrence Ferlingetti and Gregory Corso reaped most of the

520
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: credit for his endeavors. Most versions of the story say

521
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: that Rexroth was basically just jealous, but Woodcock goes on

522
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: at length to say that rex Roth was not the

523
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: jealous sort about other writers, and that he always offered

524
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: his full throated support of younger writers, including ones that

525
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: were more successful than him, as long as he actually

526
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: approved of them. But he fucking hated at least half

527
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: the Beats, so he was like, Nah, fuck these people.

528
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it just goes to show how even

529
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: back then, just saying somebody was jealous is such a

530
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: easy thing to say. And it sounds like he genuinely

531
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 2: was like, Oh, I support writers who I think are good,

532
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 2: but if I don't think they're good, I'm not going

533
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 2: to support them. And I don't think a lot of

534
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 2: y'all are good.

535
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And he's like known for being kind of

536
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: especially as he gets older, he's like known for being

537
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: that kind of grouch who's like says it like it

538
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: is or whatever the fuck. You know, it can go

539
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: any which way, whether that that's a good personality trade

540
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: or not. I genuinely don't know whether I would have

541
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 1: loved this man or hated him. I can't.

542
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 2: I already know I would have. I would have gotten

543
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: mixed up with him, for sure. I already know this

544
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: is you. You're basically describing my type. I know, I

545
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: already know. I'm glad you have some ambiguity, but I'm not.

546
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think when I was like a twenty year old, like,

547
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: I think I would have hated him. And I think

548
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: five years earlier and ten years later, I would have

549
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: liked him, but I don't know, and despite okay, but

550
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: then it's funny. Despite being part of this counterculture, he's

551
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: no beatnik himself. He's not subcultural himself, and he at

552
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: one point demanded that his daughter only date a man

553
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: whose shirtcuffs could button and who could cook a good

554
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: meal while wearing formal wear.

555
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: Oh, I feel like that's sort of good advice. But

556
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: it's interesting how he's like, Oh, I'm around all of

557
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: these like dirty hippie beatnick types. I don't want that

558
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: for my kid. You got to marry a dude with

559
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 2: a job.

560
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, absolutely, And also like even being like he

561
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: can cook a good meal wearing formal wear is like

562
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: kind of like he knows how to dress up for you,

563
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: and he like, also, isn't gonna make you doing all

564
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: the cooking. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how

565
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: his daughter felt about this advice. I like, I don't know.

566
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: And when you asked me earlier who some of my

567
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: favorite poets are. I read a bunch of his poetry

568
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: for this, and I haven't read all of this poetry yet,

569
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna read more of it and maybe i'll

570
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: like do a follow up episode where I'm like, Rex

571
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: Rothel was a terrible man. I don't know, but like

572
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: I read a lot of his poetry for this, and

573
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: some of it is some of my favorite poetry about.

574
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: There's this thing that I've talked about a lot on

575
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: the show where you had this moment in the early

576
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: twentieth century of this huge movement for leftism and for

577
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: anarchism and for all of these these things that are happening,

578
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: and then it started to die away, and by the

579
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: end of World War II a lot of it was

580
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: dead for a while, right, And so you have this

581
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: generation of people feeling this incredible loss that they like

582
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: had given their lives to something and it didn't stick.

583
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: And he writes about that better than anyone I've ever read.

584
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: I need to read that.

585
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to read you part of it. This

586
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: particular poem is full of gendered language. I love it anyway.

587
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: It's from a poem called for Eli Jacobson. I assume

588
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: that's someone he was friends with who died. I'm cutting

589
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: little bits of it to make it slightly shorter. We

590
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: believed we would see with our o own eyes the

591
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: new world where man was no longer wolf to man.

592
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: But men and women were all brothers and lovers together.

593
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: We will not see it, none of us. It is

594
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: farther off than we thought. It does not matter. We

595
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: were comrades together. Life was good for us. It is

596
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: good to be brave. Nothing is better, food tastes better,

597
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: wine is more brilliant, girls are more beautiful. The sky

598
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: is bluer. If the good days never come, we will

599
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: not know. We will not care. Our lives were the best.

600
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: We were the happiest men alive in our day.

601
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 2: That's so beautiful. Something about hearing that now especially is

602
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: really pointing here, Margaret, you have such a beautiful I

603
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: can tell that you spend time reading. You bring such

604
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: a gravitass to those words. That's very moving.

605
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: Thank you. This one fucked me up, Like there's one more.

606
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to read another excerpt, but like reading is

607
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: like it. It was like yeah, like it's so hard

608
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: sometimes looking at how bad shit is getting, especially when

609
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: shit starts looking really bad right after we start seeing

610
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: things look really good, you know, and starting to be like, oh, us,

611
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: fighting to make things really good is worth it, no

612
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: matter what it is worth it, whether or not the

613
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: good days come, like just the whole, like it is

614
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: good to be brave. Nothing is better. It's just like

615
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: it fucks me up. I love it.

616
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 2: I mean I think, I mean not to get off

617
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: on like everything, but I fight this urge of giving

618
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 2: into the idea that all of the good times we're

619
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: gonna have are behind us and nothing will ever be

620
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: done again. Absolutely, that poem speaks to that instinct that

621
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: you know why in a kind of way, it's so

622
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 2: important to fight that urge, Yeah, and focus on like

623
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 2: what we do have right now, yeah, which is being brave.

624
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: No, it's true. And because the other thing that I

625
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: think about a lot is that like we can't present

626
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: like we've lost. We haven't, Like it's an ongoing fight.

627
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: We kind of can't lose permanently, right, We also kind

628
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: of can't win permanently, But we can't lose permanently. There

629
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: will always be people fighting for a better world. Like

630
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: they literally can't kill us all because if they did that,

631
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: their own kids would turn into us, you know, well

632
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: in some context and not other context. But like, I've

633
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: been thinking about this a lot, right because there's a

634
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: lot of with the news happening this week, which again

635
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: you could be listening at any point in the future,

636
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: and you'll be like, ah, yes, the news this week.

637
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: It's like really easy to get caught up. I see

638
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: people posting a lot of like this is it. It's bad.

639
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: Everyone should just be scared, and you're like, well, we

640
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: should probably be scared, because you have to be scared

641
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: to be brave. But like, we do have each other.

642
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: We can try and do something about this, and bravery

643
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: is a choice we can make, you know, and it

644
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't know whatever. Anyway, I don't want to totally

645
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: soapbox this. I just I it's been on my mind

646
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: a lot.

647
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: Thank you for reading that. That really speaks to me.

648
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm gonna read one more excerpt, and this

649
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: one I'm partly reading it because the title of this

650
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: poem is like two of the episodes of this show

651
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: crammed into one title, which is from the Paris Commune

652
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: to the Kronstat Rebellion. Ooh really, yeah, they shall rise up, heroes.

653
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: There will be many, none will prevail against them. At last,

654
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: they will go saying each I am one of many.

655
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: Their hands empty save for history. They die at bridges,

656
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: bridge gates and drawbridges. Remember now, there were others. Before

657
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: the sepulchers are full at Ford and Bridgehead, there will

658
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: be children with flowers there, and lambs and golden eyed

659
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: lions there, and people remembering in the future.

660
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: That last line, people remembering in the future. I mean,

661
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 2: isn't that what we're fighting for. Isn't that what this

662
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: is all about? You know?

663
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: Yeah? And that like their hands empty save for history.

664
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: Like the thing that we are bringing to this fight

665
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: is that we come from something and are part of something,

666
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: you know.

667
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: And that we we were talking in the previous episode

668
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 2: about how these things are so tenuous and worth fighting for.

669
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,439
Speaker 2: But like the importance of telling those stories accurately. Even

670
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: if they don't have them in the history books, people

671
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: aren't learning about them in school. We can always do

672
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: what we can to make sure folks know that this

673
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 2: is our history, our shared, messy, complicated, beautiful history together.

674
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And it even helps to remember that they're

675
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: also all fuck ups, right, Yeah, because you don't have

676
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, I once did something that wasn't great,

677
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: like fucking.

678
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: All out here fucking snakes just like the rest of us.

679
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 1: Totally just the snake fucker's a history making the world

680
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: a better place for most people. Yea, and yeah, so

681
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: the this guy he sets up the literary salon with

682
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: other people. In his sixties, he moves to Santa Barbara

683
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: and tries his hand at teaching. He's kind of avoided

684
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: academia until then, but by his seventies he's like, now

685
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: fuck this, and he goes back to doing what he loved.

686
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: He's actually he's one of the originators as far as

687
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: I can tell. Oh, this is one of those things

688
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: where I'm like, I sort of assume black people did

689
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 1: this first, but I could be wrong. He traveled around

690
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: and read poetry accompanied by jazz musicians, and he's seen

691
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: as like one of the people who sort of brought

692
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: that idea around. But I don't know it specifically said

693
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: he's the guy who did this, and I just always

694
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: have a skepticism. But now he's connecting in his seventies

695
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: with something he did fifty years earlier when he was

696
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: like twenty in Chicago. That's kind of cool. That's a

697
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: kind of a nice way to end your life.

698
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 3: You know.

699
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: He'd been a Buddhist for a very long time, and

700
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: then on the Easter before he died, he converted to

701
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: Catholicism without abandoning Buddhism or anarchism. As far as I

702
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: can tell.

703
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: It just was like Buddhist, anarchist Catholic.

704
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, why not? And I think it's interesting last

705
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: week when I talked about her a couple weeks ago,

706
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: at some point I talked about the socialist photographer. Oh

707
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: you remember, you were talking about air, the weird air

708
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: people who go around hot air balloons and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

709
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: So I ended up talking about this photographer who invented

710
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: a ton of new types of photography called Na Dare,

711
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: whose socialism is completely forgotten about, who helped Paris during

712
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: the siege of Paris and the invented air mail by

713
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: taking balloons out of the city with letters in them.

714
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: And he is the person who was like an important

715
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: photographer artist. He was literally one of the first Bohemians,

716
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: well besides people from Bohemia, which is an actual place,

717
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: So being a Bohemian is one of the first examples

718
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: of cultural appropriation of a name by Western people, even

719
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: though the Bohemia is a white place, but it's an

720
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: Eastern European place. Anyway, I did not know this. Yeah,

721
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: it's part of I think the Czech Republic now and

722
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: at least I have been to Bohemia, and it was

723
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: in the Czech Republic. I don't know if it continues elsewhere. Anyway,

724
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: In the eighteen forties, thirties and forties there were the

725
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 1: first Bohemians and they were like hobo radical traveling around,

726
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 1: sleeping under bridges, making art, being weird hippies, right, And

727
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 1: he was one of the very first original Bohemians. And

728
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: he then and I can use him to connect the

729
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: revolutions of eighteen forty eight to the Impressionists, because he's

730
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: the one who his salon or his gallery maybe a studio,

731
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: was the first place to have an Impressionist exhibit. And

732
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: I think it's cool that I can now then do

733
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: the same thing one hundred years later, where I can

734
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: connect to Chicago wobbly hobo, who witnessed the end of

735
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: the classical era of socialism and anarchism, organized the first

736
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: exhibition of the Beat poets.

737
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 2: That is so cool.

738
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. As for what that has to do with radio,

739
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: I'll tell you. After these ads, I.

740
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 2: Forgot that that was what we were talking about er back.

741
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: So there is more to tell about the history of

742
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: public radio that I want to learn, and I just

743
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: have so much time in my life and I want

744
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: to try and get things right instead of doing a

745
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: really glossing over stuff. But rex Roth and the people

746
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: around him, especially the other Pacifists who he was part

747
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: of the same social circles as, were essential to the

748
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: birth of public radio because they founded a radio station

749
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: that is still around today that some of my friends

750
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: have work on. It's KPFA ninety four point one on

751
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: your FM dial in the San Francisco Bay area. It's

752
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: part of the slightly broader PACIFICA Radio network. Have you

753
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: heard of PACIFICA Radio?

754
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 2: Oh? I know PACIFICA very well. Shout out to PACIFICA.

755
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: I used to give them lots of money.

756
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: Fuck yeah. Whenever I hear the first, I'm always like,

757
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: is at the first in America? Is at the first

758
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: in the world? I don't know right, but either in

759
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: nineteen forty eight or nineteen forty nine I have read both,

760
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: they start at PACIFICA Radio. Theodore Rojak wrote in an

761
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: Anarchy magazine in the nineties, I think says quote the

762
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: first PACIFICA station, KPFA, which broadcasts like BBC local radio

763
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: on a UHF signal, was founded in nineteen forty eight

764
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: in Berkeley, California, by a group of local citizens, mainly

765
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: pacifists and anarchists. Its first station manager was a guy

766
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: named Lou Hill, who was a pacifist and if you

767
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: want to check off another mark on your cool zone,

768
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: bingo a quaker. They formed Pacifica Radio to finance the

769
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: whole thing, and it's also still around today. And the

770
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: idea that they had was a magazine of the airwaves,

771
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: supported by subscribers. And it's funny because like reading that,

772
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that makes sense, it's a radio magazine.

773
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: But all clicked together when I finally read that. I

774
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: don't know how much it is these days. It started

775
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: at twelve dollars a year with discounts for students, and

776
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: then soon those fifteen dollars a year. But you also

777
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: clearly don't have to subscribe, right, Like it's on the airwaves.

778
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: You can just pick it up.

779
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 2: If anybody lives in the DMV area. WPFW is a

780
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: Pacifica station. They've got them all. You can just like

781
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 2: listen to it even today.

782
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a cool model, and I see why

783
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: it's like it's hard. It's a hard model. For them

784
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: to get to do, but also like any media organization

785
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: that started in nineteen forty eight that's still around is succeeding.

786
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, they clearly are doing something right.

787
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. By the early sixties, they set up sister stations,

788
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: and I think the first ones are in LA and

789
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: New York. And because they were responsible only to their listeners,

790
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: to their subscribers, they were able to play things over

791
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: the airwaves that other stations would bulk at. And not

792
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: just like edgy politics, although obviously they're more capable of

793
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 1: doing that, but they can do longer form stuff. They

794
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: can be like, you know, we don't have to just

795
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: do like the three minute version of something. We can

796
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: do the sixty minute version. We can do the sixty

797
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: three and a half minute version of something, and we

798
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: can have more diverse points of view. When they first launched,

799
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: they were able to pay their workers through the subscription model,

800
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: but tenuously so, and I think they invented this, but

801
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: I could be wrong. Marathon broadcast fundraisers.

802
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: I associate that with like PBS, but they were doing

803
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: it first.

804
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: Right because PBS didn't exist yet shame of course, So

805
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 1: they would do marathon broadcast fundraisers that I think they

806
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: invented to cover the gap between the subscription costs and

807
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: their operating expenses, and then by doing that, they also

808
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: realized that they had some of their most creative content

809
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: was the subscription like fundraisers, and volunteerism was an essential

810
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: part of it, with most people chipping in unpaid. And

811
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: this was seen it's kind of one of these things

812
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: that like, our attitude around this is like shifted a lot,

813
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: you know. It's like the like amateurism of the Olympics

814
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 1: was seen as this important part of the Olympics, whereas

815
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: eventually people were like, yeah, but what about people who

816
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: weren't born rich, who like need to get paid to.

817
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 2: Do it if I want to do it, but I

818
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,919
Speaker 2: can't do it for free because I have the need

819
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 2: to eat and pay rent.

820
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. Now, if we all teamed up with some

821
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: amateur landlords and some amateur restaurants and some amateur like

822
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: get a.

823
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 2: Whole amateur society.

824
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: Thing going, I think it's called communism, and you do that,

825
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,439
Speaker 1: but you know whatever, And so volunteerism, like rex Roth

826
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: talks very positively about the volunteerism that made pacifica radio happen,

827
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: and I like don't know one way or the other,

828
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: but I'm personally glad that a lot of our culture

829
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: has moved to like the kind of fuck you pay me,

830
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: like in order for people to create radical content or

831
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: do things like that. But of course I say that,

832
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: and you know it's complicated. And rex Roth contributed content

833
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: to Pacifica every week, and his circle was a huge

834
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: part of its founding. Early PACIFICA Radio included Paul Goodman,

835
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 1: who's the philosopher of the New West. And there's Alan Watts,

836
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: who was the anarchist who introduced Buddhism to the hippies.

837
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,760
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry. And Kennis Rexroth wrote about Pacifica nineteen

838
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: sixty one, quote it is a non commercial, educational FM

839
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: station owned and operated by Pacifica Foundation, a democratically run,

840
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: more or less cooperative board of local leaders of every variety,

841
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 1: united largely by their sense of community responsibility. He also wrote, quote,

842
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: more than any other factor, it is KPFA that has

843
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: set the character of San Francisco culture in the post

844
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: war period. And so again that influence, like I read

845
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: a bunch about like they were hugely important during the

846
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: sixties movements like the anti war movements. They were kind

847
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: of one of the only places you could get real

848
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: news about what was happening in Vietnam and the United States.

849
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety six, they gave us democracy.

850
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 2: Now, I don't know if you're gonna get into this,

851
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: but like, I'm a big Carlin fan. They had the

852
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 2: whole I think in the seventies, like they aired a

853
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 2: and fact check this, but they aired an uncensored Carlin

854
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 2: special and it was like meant to be like indecent,

855
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: and they took it all the way up to the

856
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 2: Supreme Court, and it was this like foundational thing of

857
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 2: free speech and like what you could say over the radio.

858
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 2: I find this to be so fascinating. And like you,

859
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 2: if you didn't have Pacifica Radio setting up shop, you

860
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 2: would not have any kind of situation where it's like

861
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: leftist folks trying to set up their own conglamorates. So

862
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 2: like Air America Radio probably wouldn't exist. That's why we

863
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: have Mark Marin. Like so many things down the line

864
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 2: of history exist because of PACIFICA Radio really setting this

865
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 2: standard very early. It genuinely is such a cool history.

866
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's amazing. I honestly, like I basically was like, oh,

867
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: I ran time to go any further with this. At

868
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: this point, there's so much more I want to know

869
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: about public radio, and like, yeah, it seems obvious in

870
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: retrospect that it came from radicals, right and PACIFICA radio.

871
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 1: I just assumed it was from low West coast, so

872
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: it is the Pacific Ocean. But like, in retrospect, I'm like,

873
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 1: it's probably because of Pacifism, you know.

874
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 2: I feel like on this show, it's always like, oh,

875
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 2: the Pacifists, we're doing something and it's cool.

876
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: I know, I know, And every now and then you're like, okay, Pacifists.

877
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: Sometimes people need to shoot the Nazis in World War Two,

878
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm discussing Europe. But god, yeah, anyway, that's what I got.

879
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: It's some of the history of public radio. You know.

880
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: I think I probably could have done this with a

881
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: bunch of the founders. Is tie them into these things

882
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: where it's like it's not coming out of nowhere, it's

883
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: coming out of this like you know, it's like through

884
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: him being part of the IWW, I can tie him

885
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: to Lucy Parsons, who was born enslaved and is like

886
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: one of the founders of the labor movement in the

887
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: United States, you know, and it's like, we can make

888
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: these direct through lines to now to the things that

889
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: are happening now, and that pacifica radio still exists, and

890
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 1: we come from somewhere and that just means so much

891
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: to me.

892
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: We come from somewhere. That's such a beautiful way to

893
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 2: put it. Yeah, folks should support media like this, like

894
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 2: I think. I mean, it sounds so silly to say

895
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: now more than ever, but these things are tenuous and

896
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: it's just so cool that what you've just described, like

897
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 2: WPFW is the preset radio station in my car. Oh cool,

898
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 2: next time I get in my car, it'll be playing.

899
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: It's like, the reason why that is the case is

900
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 2: because of all of this history that came before. I

901
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 2: just find it so so beautiful.

902
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you got anything you want to plug.

903
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 2: You can listen to my podcast. There are no girls

904
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 2: on the internet. Yeah. Also, I should have said this

905
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 2: last time. You should support statehood for DC, and you

906
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 2: should check out Free DC and Harriet's Waldest Dreams and

907
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,439
Speaker 2: any other folks who are doing cool work to fight

908
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: for the self determination of the residents of the District

909
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 2: of Columbia, of which there are more than half a million.

910
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: Of us speaking of a now more than ever, like

911
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: it must be such a like, you know, statehood for

912
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: DC is like always made sense because there's people who

913
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: live there, right and the whole taxation with that representation thing,

914
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, now more than ever, you know, like, oh,

915
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: a loophole that was left in the government that everyone's like, ah, no,

916
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: one's going to take advantage of that.

917
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 2: Don't even get me started, Mark Lord.

918
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: Well, you have a recent episode of it could happen here. Well,

919
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: I guess it's actually a couple weeks older. I do.

920
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 2: We're actually Garrison and I are going to do another

921
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 2: sort of thirty years of our thirty years Scott thirty days.

922
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: That was a slip. It feels like thirty years. About

923
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 2: thirty days since Trump announced the takeover of DC's police force,

924
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, so I don't know when

925
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 2: a layer, but it depending on when you're listening. You

926
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 2: could listen to that.

927
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: Cool, what do I want to plug? I have a substack.

928
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: I write almost every week, and I actually wrote a

929
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: longer piece, not longer, it's actually shorter than the script,

930
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: but I wrote more about some of this poetry and

931
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: kind of my feelings about reading Rexroth and all of

932
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: that stuff. And you can check that out for free

933
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: on my substack, which is Marto Kildoid at substock dot com.

934
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: Ian you got anything you want to.

935
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 3: Plug, Yeah, just check out all the feeds for all

936
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 3: of our sub series within it could happen here, including

937
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 3: cool Zone Media book Club. You can now find dedicated

938
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 3: feeds for all those subshows. And yeah, just you know,

939
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:40,399
Speaker 3: keep fighting the good fight.

940
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, all right, see y'all next week.

941
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye.

942
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

943
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media.

944
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 2: For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit our website

945
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 2: cool Zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

946
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

947
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 3: Mm hmm