WEBVTT - Talking About Guns and Culture 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:08.560 Welcome back to it could happen here, the only podcast 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:11.800 you are legally allowed to listen to right now. Um, 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.600 I'm Robert Evans. We talk about things falling apart, putting 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:19.000 them back together, all that good stuff with me as 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:21.840 it just like sevent of the time. Is my co 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:26.200 host Garrison Davis. Garrison, how are you doing today? I'm 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:30.560 doing great. It is early for you. Yeah, they have to. 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:32.880 They have to drag me out of bed, but I 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:37.800 I made it just about a hair after three. Okay, 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.440 I have my second coffee already. So our topic is 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:45.960 gun culture, uh, and to discuss gun culture with me 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:47.960 and a number of aspects of it, including how to 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.559 maybe make a better one. Uh. Is Carl cassarda from 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:56.120 Enranged TV. Carl, Welcome to the program. Hey, thanks for 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:58.639 having me. I'm really stoked to be here. And it's 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:00.800 a topic, as you can imagine with my work on 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.200 Enrainge TV, is a near and dear to my heart 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:05.679 because it's a challenging one. We've got a lot of 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.640 great things in this community and a lot of challenges too. Yeah. 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:12.080 Gun YouTube has gotten some really interesting places in the 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:15.160 last Um. Really, it feels like most of the growth 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:17.240 happen like the last five six years, like there's been 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:21.960 a real significant increase in Yeah, I feel like there's 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.360 been like a wave. I feel like there's generations of 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.160 gun too. There's like Gen one, Gen two, Gen three 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.959 in thereps, Russian back in the day and stuff totally. Yeah, 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:33.880 and so there's a whole thing there. There's there's generations 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.399 of what was addressed in the conversation and the cultural 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.000 significance as well as the geary impact. I think we've 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:43.040 got different kind of generations of the Yeah, and I 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:45.880 think this stuff obviously, when when aspects of gun YouTube 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.440 go viral, it tends to be stuff that's like particularly problematic. 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.080 But in my experience, most of it is just dudes 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.000 shooting stuff to see what happens, or you know, trying 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.640 out different guns and stuff like. It is mostly if 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.800 you're someone who you know believes in the right to 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.840 bear arms, it's mostly pretty much just like people drying 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.280 out guns and stuff with guns. Yeah. Yeah, when things 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:10.799 go viral, it's like my my experience with that, there's 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:12.880 a number of reasons, or one is that it's particularly 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.200 gross that someone does something or says something fucked up. 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:18.960 Somebody's out there dressed as a rotation, all right, stuff 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:21.160 like that, that kind that tends to push the buttons. 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:23.399 But yeah, most of the time, the stuff that gets 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:27.840 the largest volume of viewership are quite honestly more banal. 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:32.160 It's things like a fifty caliber a exploding or shooting 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:35.520 a gallon, you know, gallon, drum of gas. That kind 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.080 of stuff. Is that that stuff appeals to people that 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.079 aren't just gun people, so they're like, oh, I want 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.600 to see shoots bload, so let me click on it. Well, 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:44.760 one of my favorite things is to look at videos 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:48.359 of people destroying safe life fests. One of my favorite 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.280 ways to watch gun YouTube. But I guess this is 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.280 probably what we're probably talking about this as the episode 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.600 goes on. But once you watch enough of those from 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:57.840 like one channel, you'll you'll get to a video when 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:01.160 they fantasize about like shooting Antifa or something that they're like, okay, 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.000 well yeah, that yeah, that's that's just the way it 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.959 goes sometimes. And it is, you know, the thing that 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.760 my first I guess the first time I became aware 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:13.480 of like online gun culture UM was a site that's 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:14.880 still really near and dear to my heart. I'm sure 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.160 you're familiar with it, Carl the Box of Truth. And 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:19.959 it was like, and I think this like fifteen years 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:21.639 ago or something like that is when I started reading 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:23.840 their stuff, and it's it's just like some kind of 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.560 bubba e dudes in Texas who will take different who 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:28.880 will try out like, hey, there's a myth that, um 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.720 this specific round in Korea got stopped by people who 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.680 were wearing multiple layers of like clothing in the cold. 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.400 Can winter clothing stop this bullet? And they would they would, 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.200 you know, mock up the clothing on like a target 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.480 and they would shoot. Or like how many books does 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:44.120 it take? Like if you have a full backpack, how 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:45.800 many books would it take to stop a round of 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.560 nine millimeter? If? I like, it's it's all very much 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:52.040 like practical Hey, people you know say this works this 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:53.760 way or this works that way. Well, let's go out 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.520 and shoot some stuff and test how it works. And um, 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.240 I think was like it is, as you said, the 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:00.680 kind of thing I think, even if you don't own 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:02.880 guns you might find interesting just because like a lot 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.240 of it is dealing with here's things you've seen in Hollywood, 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:10.520 what actually happens? Um, So I do think like, fundamentally 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.800 there's always going to be a place for that kind 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.480 of content because it's it's not just like stuff that 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.679 people who like guns are interested in. It's just stuff 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:20.760 that has kind of objective value. You know, you're trying 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:24.120 to expand what people's understanding of things. Yeah, I call 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.799 that G whiz content. It's like, G whiz, what happens 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.839 if right? And so on? In range. The closest equivalent 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.080 to that, which are the videos that the most views 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.520 are are somewhat now infamous mud tests um and it 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.919 started off six years ago and it was literally it 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.560 was G whiz, let's go do this. And of course 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.600 there's this long standing lore everywhere outside of the gun 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:45.960 community and in it about the A K M being 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.359 this undestructed, indestructible unicorn you write into combat that no 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:51.359 matter what happens to it, it fires, and they are 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:53.880 fifteen being this fragile piece of ship. And in our 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.480 mud tests, of which we've now done multiple of it, 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.760 while initially it was just G whiz, over time and aggregate, 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.119 it turned out to actually have really interesting data points 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.360 and that the A k doesn't do well in mud 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.240 and they are excels in mud, which is completely against 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.599 the lore about Vietnam, which is a different problem. But 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.000 that kind of thing extends beyond the gun community because 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.840 people are like guns and mud. What happened? Is this 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.400 MythBusters kind of stuff? Yeah, and I think, but it's 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.640 interesting how you can learn from it. Yeah, And I 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:24.039 think one of the problems that is, uh, we could 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:27.159 say like has is an issue on on gun YouTube 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:28.760 and one of the things that has become an issue, 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.240 and this isn't just within the gun culture, it's everywhere. 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:33.920 Is that like if you're into that stuff, and if 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:35.400 you're if you're coming into it, like I want to 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.400 see people do this g with stuff or I just 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.560 want to see reviews of different guns because I might 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.000 be buying one. Um, Google's algorithm is going to feed 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:44.679 you a lot of stuff, and some of that stuff 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:46.640 is going to be people who, yeah, are preparing to 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:50.159 like shoot folks at protests and our filming videos about 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:54.000 that and stuff and that it has this um it 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:56.640 has this radicalizing effect on a lot of people. And 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:58.920 it also has this kind of can have this kind 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:02.599 of radicalizing effect on content where you know, most political 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:04.440 stuff you see isn't kind of that over it. But 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.440 it does if somebody has a video where they're being 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.600 more explicitly political outside of you know, you know, arguing 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:12.760 in favor of gun rights, but if they're getting kind 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.400 of political and a broader since, and that does really 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:17.760 well the way that content works. As other people might 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:19.400 be like, oh, well, folks want me to do a 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.760 political video, folks want me to talk about I don't know, 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.520 Nancy Pelosi or whatever, um And that that's you know, 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.960 not just a problem with gun culture or gun YouTube, 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:31.960 but it has increasingly become a thing. And in the 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.200 n r A kind of very famously. There's a good 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:38.920 podcast on the how that organization has kind of gone 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:41.000 from where it started to where it is that talks 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.360 about like n r A TV. But they their YouTube 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.800 channel had some pretty outrageous ship for a while, and 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.360 I think it left an impact even though it failed 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.640 in this eventually. Well, the n r A is an tool. 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:53.479 We can get into that later. The end has changed 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:55.320 so much since its organs to what it is now. 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:57.360 It's not even the people have found it. It It wouldn't 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.599 recognize it, I don't think at all. But you're touching 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:02.520 on a topic there that's also near and dear, And 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:03.960 I'm not trying to promote in range here, that's just 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.080 we're having a conversation. But years ago I decided to 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:09.760 proactively demonetize. I turned off my AdSense and I take 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.080 no money from any views, so it's not like advertising 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.320 doesn't drive what I do. And I feel like the 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:17.400 reason I did that was partially just fuck you YouTube. 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.080 It was the hacker manifesto of you come watch my content, 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.680 I cost you money versus make you money, which is 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.920 kind of a statement on my part. But additionally, I 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:28.880 do feel like, whether it's firearms or any other content 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.600 that is completely advertised, I supported there is a dangerous 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.640 thing there in that you have to pursue the clicks 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.400 like a heroin addict, and the clicks make you the money, 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:40.640 and therefore you're gonna make the stuff that's gonna make 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.200 the clicks because that's how you make your income. And 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:45.000 even if you don't want it to do, it can 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:50.360 affect you. Yeah, And I'm curious, like, how do you 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:55.360 kind of how do you um, how do you how 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:59.760 do you approach sort of dealing in this space where 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.720 it is so easy for things to become politicized, Like 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:04.480 do you is that is that a kind of thing 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.160 that you have to be consciously sort of picking your battles. 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.040 I guess I'm just kind of interested in how you 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:13.920 because you definitely have been more open about having kind 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.080 of more on the left libertarian side of things politics 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.440 than a lot of people talk about in that space. 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:23.120 How do you decide kind of what is worth inserting 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:24.960 and what is worth kind of just you know, no 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.320 one needs to hear that within this context. Oh yeah, 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.440 I don't think that that's an easy thing to answer, right, 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.920 It's hard, Like there's a lot of landlines. But when 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:37.400 um introspectively for me, the answer for me at least 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.240 was I'm just going to come to this content as 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.920 my honest self, Like, if I'm just going to produce 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:44.640 what I want to produce, it's and since I don't 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:47.480 have to worry about advertising dollars, I'm just gonna make 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.439 this ship I want to make. And as a result, 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.240 I guess it's sometimes considered an alternative voice, but I 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.640 don't think it really is. I think that the loud 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.200 loud mouths have made it sound like there's only one 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:01.920 voice in this community. It there isn't. And so by 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:05.160 just being legitimate and honest and being me, there has 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.560 turned out to be a lot of ground swell if 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.800 you want to use grassroots type people out there that 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.720 want to hear something that's not just evangelical American Taliban 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.560 so but but in terms of what where to where, 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:19.720 what where to put your foot on? What land mine? 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.439 I guess I did for me. My decision has been 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.079 to do topics that have been intentionally ignored that shouldn't 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.079 have been. Like I've done a bunch of videos about 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:30.600 the confluence of civil rights and firearms ownership, which there's 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:32.839 a lot of it, and it's it's really amazing how 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.120 much there is and no one talks about it. Yeah, 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:37.960 I mean we Yeah, we've chatted about that a little 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:39.680 bit in some of our episodes. It was like nineteen 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.120 nineteen when there were all those like race riots around 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:43.640 the country, or even if you're looking at like the 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.240 post construction period, there's a history both of like gun 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.360 control being used for racist purposes, but also just of 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.920 community is arming themselves, Black communities arming themselves. That is 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:57.240 is woefully undertold. Although it is people are starting to 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:00.959 deal with it more thankfully. Um. I'm kind of interested 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.600 in talking to you about sort of the culture jamming 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:07.120 aspect of we have this huge gun culture, aspects of 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.200 it are very toxic and becoming politicized in a way 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:15.160 that is um aggressive. Um, how do we how do 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:18.000 we have a positive influence and kind of hopefully pull 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.840 things back, because I do think within kind of the 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:25.880 issue of gun rights, there's more actually more possibility for 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.920 people to sort of come together and reaching a chord 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.760 than there is on something like abortion. Um. And I 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.880 think a lot of that conversation is going to start 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:38.600 in spaces like the one you inhabit. Yeah, no, I yeah, 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.199 I like what you said culture jamming, because another term 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.480 I've heard is subversibile. That's not the intent. But like 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.480 you mentioned the Red Summer of nineteen nineteen and uh, yeah, 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.560 I talked to when I talked to a lot of 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:52.040 people that that are really huge historically interested in minded 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.240 and I was astonished how many people have not even 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.719 heard of it. Never mind you only like the explicit 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.080 realities of it. And so when it comes to the 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.559 culture jamming, there's one video I did about one or 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:04.440 two of the events of Red Summer of nineteen nine, 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.559 one of them here in Bisbee locally and it's an 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.920 interesting problem to someone who normally would be considered as 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.800 a very standard issue firearms content creator. In that particular 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:18.640 Red Summer nineteen nineteen episode, it turned into the local 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:23.760 police attempting to disarm the tenth Cavalry soldiers who are 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:28.280 off you know, military soldiers in bis beyond recreation, And 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.160 so you've got this interesting cognitive dissonance. Do I support 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.520 the cops that a lot of firearms people are like 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.000 just blindly support, or do I support the military, which 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:39.800 a lot of fires people blindly support when both of 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.800 them converge and the and it's a racist agenda in 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.400 it that poses a question that I like to do 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:47.560 with like this kind of content because it means that 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.120 the viewer has to really, if they get through the video, 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.080 have to introspectively go, Holy funk, which do I support 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:55.320 or do I support either? Or is there a problem 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.080 here I haven't been considering. I think asking questions like 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:10.600 that really matters when you try to like start these 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:14.360 conversations with people who are in the same space but 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.560 but not you know, I haven't considered talking about this 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.120 stuff before or on what would traditionally be seen as 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:24.640 kind of very opposed political um wing, how do you 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.080 kind of start these conversations in a way that makes 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:29.439 it most likely that you're gonna be able to have 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.400 a positive dialogue that actually moves forward as opposed to 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:34.880 kind of getting bogged down in the and the things 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.360 that caused people to just kind of lock horns generally 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.120 when you we start getting into these areas, Yeah, you know, 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.080 I don't know, it's totally possible. You're gonna have that 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.760 problem no matter what right you see that with your work. 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.959 For surely, when you take an honest approach to history 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.640 and just be like, here's the facts. Um, there's gonna 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.080 be people that are just gonna be completely resistant to that. 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.559 They're not going to take it. But um, I think 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.680 the best way to do that is to just be 0:12:57.880 --> 0:12:59.720 that honest approach to it. Like one of the things 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.920 that I've think we do with firearms content gears cool 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.160 tech is cool. Guns are neat. They're fun. I enjoy 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.400 shooting with guns. I like the foard of it. I 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.400 like going to competitions. But one of the things that 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:13.400 it gets left out of the conversation a lot is 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.880 what are the implications of firearms and the sociological economic 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:18.920 environments that we live in, and I think that's one 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:20.719 of the things that didn't get talked about. And so 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.080 if we talk about it fairly and also tend to 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.240 I think it's hard to do, but have people from 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.920 all sides of this perspective, as long as they're not 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.120 completely dangerous and toxic, being part of the conversation, we 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.760 can have a better middle ground. That's the hard part. 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.839 Like so being inclusive, ironically, even of views that you 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.319 aren't necessarily your own, as long as the person you're 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:46.319 dealing with isn't. My line is, if you're actively supporting 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:50.360 bigotry or the harm of other people, there's a no go. 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:52.880 We're done. But if we have different views but we 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.400 realize that that's not the intent, then then we should 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.120 have a conversation. I think that that's a big difference now. 0:13:58.240 --> 0:13:59.880 I think one of the areas in which this can 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.520 murkiest is when you are talking to people and I've 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.800 had a few of these conversations who are convinced that 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.680 there is uh that they're kind of on the precipice 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.040 of of a violent conflict sparked by someone coming to 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.400 take their guns right that and it and you know, 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.160 there's the version of this that is like, I'm worried 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:19.680 that the A t F Is going to do some 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:21.120 fuckory in a bunch of my ship is going to 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:22.960 be illegal, which is pretty reasonable. And then there's the 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.360 I'm worried Antifa's going to come to my small town 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.760 and and and take my you know, guns or do 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:30.840 whatever like because that there are often people in that 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:36.760 who are just kind of um tragically misinformed and radicalized 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:40.560 in a way that they're not so much eager to 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.760 harm people as they are just like broken and frightened 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.680 because of the things that have been fed to them. Um, 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:48.920 do you have any kind of best practices when it 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.280 comes to sort of approaching those conversations and trying to 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.760 improve the information those people are getting. I guess for 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:57.520 me in that regardless of what I when I see 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.000 people like that, and I think all of us have 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.280 those people in our world, whether it's your your aunt 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.200 or your uncle or a friend, right like we've seen 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:05.560 that over the last couple of years for sure. Um, 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:07.720 I think the best thing you can do there for me, 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:09.920 And again I'm just talking to my approach is a 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.280 break the echo chamber if you can. And so the 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:15.120 echo chamber is the problem when we suck from the 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.560 fire hose of only one source, like NonStop. Yeah, that's 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.520 gonna be dangerous. That's the kind of stuff that pollutes 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.120 your mind to the point where you can't think outside 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.760 of that box. So like being more inclusive and that 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.560 word is kind of a trigger word, a catchphrase, but 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.800 being legitimately more inclusive and presenting a lot of different 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.480 diversity that really is part of the firearms community. Can 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:38.800 I can in some circumstances break the echo chamber, Like 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.160 I'm really happy with this one project on the channel 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.680 where I'm working with the net Evans about specifically a 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.040 female or woman's approach to self defense with firearms. And 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:49.960 you don't really see that. You'll see like channels that 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:52.560 are only for women, and you'll see like all the 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:56.400 majority of gun channels that are only for gun fascinated dudes. 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.000 But like throwing that into the mix, there's gonna be 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:00.960 some subset of people that will clicking and watch it 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:02.960 out of that g whiz Lowell and that kind of 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.280 stuff can break a paradigm in terms of well, I 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:06.960 never thought of that, I never looked at it from 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.120 that perspective, and that's at least that's what I think 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.880 is the great answer is do your best to make 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:16.720 sure you're approachable and try to break the echo chamber. Yeah, 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:18.680 that makes complete Yeah, I mean that makes a lot 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:22.320 of sense. Um. I think on the other side of 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:24.320 this is also worth talking about because we've kind of 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:26.520 been focused on how do you break the echo chamber? 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.240 How do you get people who are you know, in 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.920 the gun culture on the right to be more open minded. 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:33.920 The other side of this is you have a lot 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.560 of people who are kind of liberals um or on 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:41.000 the left who have a really reflexively negative opinion to 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:45.000 the reaction to the very idea of gun ownership or 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.680 gun rights and have these you know, you will generally 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.520 see there's there's a mix of people who can come 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.520 to it from a very reasonable and argued point in 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.040 a mix of people who are just going to like 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:55.800 in the same way that folks on the right to 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.280 throw out a handful of quotes that they've seen on memes, 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.000 um that they can is to kind of, you know, 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.720 shut down debate. How do you do you have a 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:05.760 lot of those conversations where you're kind of trying to 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:07.679 make people at least more open to because this is 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:09.239 something my work has dealt with a lot. Is kind 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.280 of trying to sit down to, like, I get why 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.200 you don't think these things should be legal. Um, obviously, 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.320 I I see the same mass shooting news that you do. 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.240 There's a problem, a deep problem with guns in this country. 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.200 I don't deny that, but like, let's also talk about 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.280 the idea that the state should have an absolute monopoly 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:28.679 on on the ability to do violence. Let's talk about 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.560 the ability of marginalized groups to defend themselves. Let's talk 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:33.479 about the history of gun control and how it's like 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.399 it is it is. There's a lot of conversations that 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:39.800 kind of get wrapped up in that. Um, I'm wondering, 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.040 do you have thoughts in terms of like how to 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.320 kind of broach those and progressive avenues to go down 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.879 to when you're having that side of the conversation. You know, 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:49.960 it's totally interesting. I think I feel like I don't. 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:51.840 I'm curious what you think about this from your work 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.560 as well. I feel like over the last for good reasons, 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.800 over the last couple of years, more than a couple 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:00.399 of years, I think I've seen Maybe it's just my 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.199 own echo chamber. I've seen a lot of people on 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.040 that side of the political spectrum coming more and more 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.919 around to being pro gun. Yeah, and then the statistics 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.879 back that up. Supporting soil in the United States is 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.000 the lowest it's been in quite a while. In so 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:16.879 that like, if there's that joke on that side of 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:18.639 the political fence about you go far enough left to 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:21.280 get your guns back right, um so um. But I 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:23.000 think there's been a real wake up call for a 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.840 lot of people that used to be very much vehemently 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.359 against the idea with some of the stuff they saw 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.359 and went, whoa, Um, this isn't These aren't going away. 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:34.520 And if you're reasonable, if you're willing to have a 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.440 rational thought about, at least in this country, the reality 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.600 of firearms ownership, whether you like it or not, it's 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.840 not debatable. This is real. It's what it is. They're 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.160 not like they could ban everything tomorrow and there's gonna 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.200 be air fifteens in this country for the next hundred years. Um, 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.720 so that ain't gonna change. So with that realization, maybe 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.080 maybe the better idea with which I think is with 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.800 all technology, is instead of being afraid of it, is 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.119 to actually learn about it and understand it whether you 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.280 want it or not. You but like learning and understanding 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:03.560 it is at least a step further forward than just 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.280 complete object fear. Yeah, that that is often kind of 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.800 where I start the conversation with just like we have 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.080 to deal with the reality as it is on the ground, 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.640 which is that there's four million firearms in private hands here, 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:17.400 which is not all that far from half of all 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:20.720 of the guns in the world. Um, So any any 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.000 sort of like plan you have, it's the kind of 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:24.679 like one of the things that often comes up in 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.239 those conversations is Australia and people they were like, well 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.760 they were able to do it after Now Port Arthur 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.480 was Scotland. Um, I forget the name of the massacre, 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.320 but there was a massacre in in in in Australia 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:40.440 that they banned most kinds of firearms after and confiscated them. 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:42.159 And it gets brought up a lot where like, well 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:43.879 they did this in the short frame of time, and 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.679 there was this this impact on gun violence deaths. Why 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.159 couldn't we do it? And the reason is that they 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:51.520 had to confiscate a total of two hundred thousand arms 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:53.520 and there's four hundred million guns in private hands in 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:58.560 the United States, Um, it's it's a different scale of problem. 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:00.840 And that that's before we get to sort of illegal 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.200 barriers because Australia didn't have a Second Amendment. Obviously, like 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:06.760 whether or not you like at firearms have a level 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.280 of protection that is equivalent to the protection free speech 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.040 enjoys in this country. And you can't just pretend that's 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:17.160 not the case. There's a tremendous body of jurisprudence around it. Yeah, no, totally, 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:18.879 and like so that that's that's part of it is 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.679 the reality there Australia. Here is a completely different beast 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:23.880 as well as culturally, like the people that were into 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.320 guns there and I don't mean to offend any Australians listening, 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:28.840 but it wasn't like here, like in a place of 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:33.600 Arizona at pleast like Arizona, guns are just if you're 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:37.280 in Arizonian they're just intrinsically part of life, whether like 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:39.439 they're just constant. They're everywhere you go to, Like you 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.920 see them open care you not always do she open 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:44.480 care either. Sometimes it's like reasonable open carey. Sometimes you 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:46.840 see the other side of it. But they're just everywhere. 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:48.359 It's just part of the deal, and it's like a 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:49.800 lot of that in a lot of the country, and 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:54.040 so UM I actually think that that fear based ignorance 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.040 of them is more dangerous because then we don't teach 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:58.600 people what to do around them or how to be 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:02.119 safe around them, kind like abstinence, like education in school, 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.600 teach people not to have that's dumb, that ain't gonna work, 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:08.320 and guns exist in this country. Does just be afraid 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.000 of them that don't work either, So in the regard, 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.520 I think that the reality is it's much better to 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:17.320 UM to approach this. What I think. I guess the 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:19.240 way I try to deal with that is if you 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.919 don't fetishize them, people that are more afraid of them 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.880 are less likely to just click away. If you talk 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:28.560 about them like this is a thing, here's what they are. 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:31.639 They're not a totem against evil. They're just a tool. 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.800 And here's a historical story or narrative or sociological impact 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.000 of this that's not fetishizing it as some religious item. 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.560 I think that that helps break that barrier a little bit. 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:44.160 And I think that that does bring me to something 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:47.080 I think about a lot, which is the how you're 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:48.879 in and it actually has I think gotten a bit 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.359 better than it was prior to Sandy Hook, but the 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.760 very sorry state in a lot of cases of advertising 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.760 of gear and guns. Um. I think the most famous 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.320 example was a I believe it was a Bushmaster ad 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:02.880 that got pulled after Sandy Hook that was like an 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.359 a R fifteen that came with a man card that 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:09.239 you would get like with your gun. Yeah, get your 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:11.840 man card back. Your man card has been reissued because 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.600 you have this gun here and that I I you know, 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:18.240 I've seen a lot of different gun cultures because it's 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:20.960 actually like we've just talked about how unique US gun 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.200 culture is, but a lot of people actually own firearms 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:26.040 around the world. There's a lot of even like in Europe, 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:29.159 like France has a very significant gun culture, UM and 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:31.439 in Germany you'd be surprised, like people can own a 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:32.879 lot of the same weapons you can hear. There's a 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:35.240 lot more hoops to jump through to to get access 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.359 to them. Um. But there's still like there's gun cultures 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:42.080 all around and especially places like Iraq and Syria. It 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:44.639 was really going to UM when I saw kind of 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:47.480 the gun culture that I I most wanted to put 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:49.760 some things over to hear from there. It was in 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:54.000 northeast Syria in Rojava, where like damn near every not 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:56.680 every individual, but every like family had an AK because 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:59.280 in part, there was this understanding that you have a 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:02.000 duty from time to time to like patrol and watch 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:03.959 your neighborhood and not in sort of this like I'm 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:07.240 gonna set up a checkpoint for Antifa, but in I like, hey, 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:09.760 isis just carried out a big attack. Let's let's get 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:12.399 some folks out into the streets to like watch our neighborhoods, 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:14.280 because that's just the reality of the world, and we 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:16.520 don't we don't do we don't just have like a 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:20.120 group of militarized police rolling around every neighborhood. Like we 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:24.040 also are responsible for protecting our communities, and so we 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:26.560 train with weapons. And there was a lot of conversations 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:29.639 I had with women about like, well, the fact that 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:31.400 I have this and know how to use it now 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:33.680 means that things can't be done to me that were 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:36.159 before because I have an a K forty seven, And 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:40.080 that means something I would like to port the kind 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:42.600 of like what you were talking about not just seeing 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:44.520 it as a tool, but seeing it as a tool 0:23:44.600 --> 0:23:48.679 with societal responsibilities. You don't just have a gun so 0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:50.840 you can hold up in your house in the zombie apocalypse. 0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:53.520 You have a gun because you're part of a community 0:23:54.000 --> 0:23:57.000 and because there's there's some value that we see in 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:02.080 members of the community being armed and not just the state. Yeah, no, totally. 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:03.600 So I mean that goes that kind of goes way 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.720 back to the old like now sort of silly sounding thing, 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:09.240 but like God made man, cult made them equal, right, 0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:12.200 So before that, like if you were a frail human 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:15.919 being for whatever reasons, Um, you really were sort of defenseless, 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:18.760 especially in the places like the frontier. But skill at 0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:22.840 arms could change that and um, and that it puts 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:27.119 it can put a more balanced power infrastructure in place. UM. 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:28.359 Not that I want to live in a world, but 0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:31.560 we're always like at this point of mutually assured destruction. 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:34.720 But it is much better to have more power balanced 0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:39.840 than power imbalance. And firearms absolutely provide that in trained, responsible, 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:43.040 educated hands. Um. And that's what I think the story 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:45.359 should be, right, that's the emphasis. Like when when the 0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:47.520 whole thing happened went down in Iraq like you're describing, 0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:49.680 I think it was ironic. One of the things that 0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:51.800 the US military did was allowed every home to have 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:54.040 an AK like because you get to keep one gun 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:56.120 and it's one of these and uh, and you talked 0:24:56.119 --> 0:24:59.560 about gun ownership worldwide, like, um, once you jumped through 0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:02.080 some of the hurtles in some of these countries, it's 0:25:02.080 --> 0:25:07.160 actually easier to own certain things than you can't. Like, Yeah, 0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:09.959 like a machine gun in the US is highly regulated, 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:13.320 its four and pretty difficult and highly expensive because of 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:16.840 a specially closed market. But like Bloke on the Range, 0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:18.920 one of the guys I work with on on on YouTube, 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:21.000 once he gets his permit, like he's like, I'm just 0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:23.480 gonna go buy a fully automatic stent and he just does. 0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:25.680 And it's not at an exorbitant price like it would 0:25:25.680 --> 0:25:28.400 be in the United States. So it's not apples to apples. 0:25:28.440 --> 0:25:30.320 Like these controls, whether we like them or not, some 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:32.399 of them are actually more liberal than we have in 0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:35.719 the United States. Yeah, I think a good example of that, 0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:37.480 and an example of where like a lot of folks 0:25:37.520 --> 0:25:40.399 who might kind of reflexively think this is insane, but 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:44.399 like it's silencers, you know, suppressors being the more accurate term, 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:46.080 but silencer is what you call. It's the thing you 0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:47.760 see James Bond screw on the end of his gun 0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:51.959 to make it quiet. Um. And there's the like this 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:54.720 attitude that they should be heavily restricted because there's this 0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:57.960 misnomer that for the most part they make things sound 0:25:58.000 --> 0:25:59.800 like stuff in James Bond. Now, there are some ways 0:25:59.800 --> 0:26:03.840 to it a firearm that is incredibly quiet, um, particularly 0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:06.600 using like a smaller around and sub sonic ammunition. There 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:09.800 are some very some weapons you can effectively make quiet 0:26:09.880 --> 0:26:12.000 enough that people won't notice it. But when you're putting 0:26:12.000 --> 0:26:14.639 a silencer on an a R fifteen, it is not quiet. 0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:17.639 No one will miss it firing. But what it won't 0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:19.680 do if you have to defend yourself in your home 0:26:19.960 --> 0:26:23.119 is shatter your ear drums forever, right or this is 0:26:23.160 --> 0:26:26.439 honestly the bigger case for suppressors. If you are hunting 0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:28.439 with an animal, as a lot of people do with 0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:31.320 your dogs, you can have a suppressor on your shotgun 0:26:31.359 --> 0:26:33.040 as your bird hunting or whatever, and you will not 0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:36.320 destroy that dog's ears. Um. You know, it's the same 0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:38.320 thing like I'm hunting for deer. You know it's it's 0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:42.320 it's easier, Um, it's like less dangerous for you potentially, 0:26:42.320 --> 0:26:44.760 Like I know one thing you notice, if you've spent 0:26:44.800 --> 0:26:47.000 a lot of time around hunting dogs, they don't have 0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:49.879 good hearing by the time they get older because they're hunting. 0:26:51.760 --> 0:26:54.160 You know. It's funny suppressors, Like everything that's that's more 0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:57.480 controlled has gotta allure of magic around it, right, Like, oh, 0:26:57.560 --> 0:27:00.119 a suppressor, a silencer or or for that matter, or 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:02.320 a machine gun, and like therefore it is the forbidden 0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:04.480 fruit and everyone wants it more than they ever would 0:27:04.480 --> 0:27:07.520 have once you own. I have one transferable machine guns 0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:09.879 with tax stamp the whole nine yards, and I shoot 0:27:09.920 --> 0:27:11.520 it like once a year because you shoot it and 0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:15.600 then you're like, wow, that was expensive and and it's like, 0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:17.760 oh we that was fun, and then you put it away. 0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:19.840 And the truth is the some automatic stuff is far 0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:23.399 more interesting and actually generally more effective. Once you use 0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:26.280 full auto fire, it's got very limited use. Um fully 0:27:26.400 --> 0:27:28.600 there there, I mean there is like, if we again 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:31.120 are being complete, there's one mass shooting I can think 0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:35.200 of where a fully automatic weapon made the shooter more dangerous, 0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:37.679 and it was the Las Vegas shooting because he was 0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:41.440 in a set fixed position um. He was holed up 0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:44.520 um and he had he was not like moving and standing. 0:27:44.560 --> 0:27:47.760 He was like braced while firing into a crowd from 0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:50.040 a building. As a general rule, if you're talking about 0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:52.760 like what someone going to be more dangerous with, if 0:27:52.760 --> 0:27:55.480 they're somebody who decides to shoot up something, it's a 0:27:55.520 --> 0:27:58.680 semi automatic weapon. Because an automatic weapon number one going 0:27:58.720 --> 0:28:01.800 to jam more often quires a bit more understanding and 0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:03.960 know how on behalf of the user. And also it's 0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:05.720 a lot harder to hit with and we'll run out 0:28:05.720 --> 0:28:08.040 of ammunition very quickly as opposed to it and a 0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:10.439 semi automatic a R fifteen. The reason they are so 0:28:10.480 --> 0:28:12.919 often used in mass shootings is it's kind of the 0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:15.719 best weapon to use for that. If that's it's also prolific, right, 0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:20.040 there's like cordwood in this country. You can like they're 0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:23.040 literally everywhere. Um, the Las Vegas shooter, though I don't 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:25.040 know that he had actually any truly select fire guns. 0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:27.480 Weren't they It was, Yeah, he was using a bump stock. 0:28:27.560 --> 0:28:29.880 I think it's close enough to Yeah, well no, it's 0:28:29.880 --> 0:28:31.960 a good analog. But it is interesting to note and 0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:34.639 that guy. What's interesting about that guy's um? Well, of 0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:38.160 course his act was horrific and evil. Obviously he used 0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:41.040 a bunch of air fifteens with like shitty bump stocks, 0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:44.360 and he had planned something like this for years apparently. Yeah, 0:28:44.480 --> 0:28:46.720 he had Tanner right in the set up too, which 0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:49.320 is yeah, no one knows, I mean as we know, 0:28:49.440 --> 0:28:51.400 no one currently I don't know anyone knows what his 0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:54.360 motivation was, at least it hasn't been released. But he 0:28:54.400 --> 0:28:56.600 had been planning something like this for a very long time. 0:28:57.160 --> 0:28:59.080 And what's ironic about that is that if he had 0:28:59.160 --> 0:29:01.880 bided his time, could have actually had a real select 0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:06.280 fire like belt fed machine gun. He just did a millionaire. Yeah, 0:29:06.280 --> 0:29:09.120 he could have done that, and uh, um, this could 0:29:09.360 --> 0:29:12.520 but he just went with this bump stock kind of garbage, 0:29:12.720 --> 0:29:15.680 which is weird. Um. That's a whole another topic, but 0:29:15.760 --> 0:29:18.240 it is and it it is like that is one 0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:19.880 of those cases when you talk to people in the 0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:24.360 right where it's like after that shooting, Um, Donald Trump 0:29:24.400 --> 0:29:28.000 and his administration banned bump stocks, um, which is more 0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:30.160 gun control than we got out of eight years of Obama. 0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:32.760 That's like, you know, oh boy, you point that out 0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:37.080 at least on the center in fact, um, Uh, there's 0:29:37.080 --> 0:29:39.800 always this narrative that you know, this political party will 0:29:39.800 --> 0:29:42.320 take your guns and this polargically party waved. But the 0:29:42.320 --> 0:29:45.800 truth is statistically and historically speaking, both tend to err 0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:48.440 on the side of trying to add more restrictions over time, 0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:51.200 Like if you do it over time like Obama didn't. 0:29:51.200 --> 0:29:53.560 In fact, Obama open things up. I think he liberalized 0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:58.560 concealed carry of pistol or firearms in national parks. Actually 0:29:58.560 --> 0:30:01.040 he actually made guns a little easier to deal with. UM. 0:30:01.080 --> 0:30:06.040 But then via essentially executive order edict, you've got Trump 0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:08.800 banning bump stocks, which, whether you like bump stocks or not, 0:30:08.880 --> 0:30:11.480 I think the way that went down is questionable legally speaking, 0:30:11.480 --> 0:30:14.880 but that's another topic it And and obviously bump stocks 0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:19.680 were also somewhat questionable. They were speaking right right, totally totally. 0:30:19.720 --> 0:30:22.240 But but that's that's an interesting precedent when what he 0:30:22.280 --> 0:30:26.200 did with just like fiat edict um. But that that said, 0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:30.720 like historically, over time, there's always been more restrictions, not less, 0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:32.960 from both sides. And when you point that out, the 0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:35.000 people that just kind of drink the kool aid from 0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:37.040 one side or the other, I want to just remediately 0:30:37.080 --> 0:30:39.720 knee jerk on you, and you're like, no, this is weird. 0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:42.520 This is coming from all directions really, Yeah, and I 0:30:42.520 --> 0:30:44.400 think it is it is a big part of it 0:30:44.440 --> 0:30:47.000 is just that like as a general rule, people who 0:30:47.080 --> 0:30:49.680 are rich and powerful do not want poor people to 0:30:49.720 --> 0:30:53.280 be armed. It doesn't tend to work out in their favor. 0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:55.239 The only time they want poor people armed is when 0:30:55.240 --> 0:30:57.960 they send them to a war they decided to have. Yeah, 0:30:58.400 --> 0:31:01.600 obviously the history of gun controls would have really tied 0:31:01.640 --> 0:31:05.760 to racism and the Black Panthers and ahtle just stuff 0:31:05.800 --> 0:31:09.240 around California's gun laws being started to curb black people 0:31:09.280 --> 0:31:11.880 from from owning fire arms, and so it would be 0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:14.040 we would be You could argue in some ways that 0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:17.680 Reagan had a big role in inventing our modern concepts 0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:19.520 of like what gun control means and what kind of 0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:22.160 gun control laws like liberal states tend to go after 0:31:22.640 --> 0:31:25.320 was on open carrying bands, on you know, concealed carrying 0:31:25.320 --> 0:31:27.760 of arms, that kind of stuff. Yeah, it's deeper than this, 0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:31.680 there's always nuanced It's really hard, right, But like um, 0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:34.240 like California, which is kind of one of the flagship 0:31:34.360 --> 0:31:37.800 states of gun control, um, and I think that their 0:31:37.800 --> 0:31:42.040 methods are bizarre to me and almost on not understandable. 0:31:42.320 --> 0:31:45.080 But like you talk about Reagan pretty much. They were like, 0:31:45.120 --> 0:31:47.120 guns are cool. And then the panthers walked around with 0:31:47.200 --> 0:31:50.800 some guns. Are like, whoa sucking? We better do something? 0:31:51.120 --> 0:31:53.960 And uh, of course that the image of the panthers 0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:56.120 with their guns out walking down the street, which was 0:31:56.160 --> 0:32:03.080 their legal right, um, and it was ad and it motivated, um, 0:32:03.120 --> 0:32:05.080 of course a lot of things in California, which now 0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:07.400 we see where where that has led in California gun 0:32:07.440 --> 0:32:10.600 control laws. UM has also changed the narrative for so 0:32:10.640 --> 0:32:12.520 many people that are unwilling to look at things from 0:32:12.520 --> 0:32:16.800 a truly broad historical perspective. That's only one tiny thing 0:32:16.840 --> 0:32:19.719 the Black Panthers did, and the rest of their actions 0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:21.960 are so lost to just the pictures of them standing 0:32:22.000 --> 0:32:25.160 around them on carbons. And that's another example of leaving out, 0:32:25.760 --> 0:32:28.280 like the sinnabal Mission, We'll talk about one thing, but 0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:30.720 not the rest, and therefore the historical narrative is only 0:32:30.760 --> 0:32:33.480 one thing, and it is also there's a lesson in 0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:35.320 that for people who are on the left and who 0:32:35.360 --> 0:32:39.920 are advocates of gun ownership, about what happens in terms 0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:42.400 of media and in terms of how your movement is 0:32:42.440 --> 0:32:45.000 thought about and remembered when guns are a part of 0:32:45.000 --> 0:32:48.440 it because that's always going to for a variety of reasons, 0:32:48.440 --> 0:32:49.800 and we can say a lot of those are very 0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:54.280 unreasonable reasons. But if you are a political group who 0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:58.000 is armed and makes that a visible part of your activism, 0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:00.680 that is going to really dominate a lot of conversations. 0:33:00.720 --> 0:33:02.360 It doesn't mean you shouldn't be, but it means you 0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:04.760 have to go into that understanding that like, that's just 0:33:04.800 --> 0:33:07.560 how it works in this country. Yeah, you will immediately 0:33:07.640 --> 0:33:10.120 get you will immediately from at least some part of 0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:13.240 the perspective, whatever whatever side you're on, you will immediately 0:33:13.280 --> 0:33:17.640 get someone slinging extremist militant at you. Yeah. But by 0:33:17.640 --> 0:33:19.120 the way, I mean, those are real things too. There 0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:21.719 are those. I'm not saying there aren't extremists. We'll talk 0:33:21.800 --> 0:33:23.880 about them all the time. Yeah, this country is full 0:33:23.880 --> 0:33:25.440 of them, as is the world. So that's not that's 0:33:25.440 --> 0:33:28.840 not an unreasonable thing that does exist. But the minute 0:33:28.840 --> 0:33:30.880 you go ahead and stand with that gun, you're going 0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:33.480 to get that label, whether it's truly something you earned 0:33:33.560 --> 0:33:46.360 or not. There's a very deep conversation that we've talked 0:33:46.360 --> 0:33:50.240 about that we've had in pieces on this program and 0:33:50.320 --> 0:33:52.400 other shows that we've done on Cool Zone about like 0:33:54.040 --> 0:33:59.600 when makes sense to be openly armed and when makes 0:33:59.600 --> 0:34:01.520 sense to be openly armed as part of a group, 0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:04.880 because that is a very fraught question, as like the 0:34:05.640 --> 0:34:09.719 what happened in the chas made abundantly clear, but in 0:34:09.840 --> 0:34:12.319 you know, a bunch of cases Kyle Rittenhouse and whatnot, 0:34:12.360 --> 0:34:15.560 there's a ton of different reasons why choosing to be 0:34:15.640 --> 0:34:18.640 openly armed. Um, there's a debate to be had about 0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:21.120 like how that influences everyone around you had that influences 0:34:21.360 --> 0:34:24.279 influences the demonstration, And I've seen and heard it used 0:34:24.320 --> 0:34:27.080 in in good ways in an irresponsible ways. I've seen 0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:30.399 people carrying guns at political events in order to intimidate others. 0:34:30.440 --> 0:34:33.000 I've also seen people carrying guns at political events to 0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:36.120 create essentially a buffer where it's like, Okay, there's going 0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:37.920 to be people fighting at this event. There's going to 0:34:37.960 --> 0:34:40.680 be clashes. If we're standing here as a group with guns, 0:34:40.719 --> 0:34:42.600 there's a place people can run back to and the 0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:45.239 fighting won't continue because nobody wants to push that. And 0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:48.000 that's yeah, without talking about specifics of intent to any 0:34:48.040 --> 0:34:50.800 of those situations you already talked about, because I can't, 0:34:51.000 --> 0:34:52.920 But yeah, I think I think it does like it 0:34:52.920 --> 0:34:55.040 always comes back to this thing of intent. Right. So 0:34:55.400 --> 0:34:59.360 to me, Um, you're right for the fireman, absolutely true, regardless, 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:01.120 Like even if I agree with you, this is a right, 0:35:01.160 --> 0:35:03.080 like we said, it's protected like the first Amendment, it's 0:35:03.080 --> 0:35:07.360 the second. Um. But I think the problem starts to 0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:11.640 come when you've decided to bring the firearm solely for 0:35:11.719 --> 0:35:15.120 the intended purpose of intimidation. Like that's that's where I 0:35:15.160 --> 0:35:18.400 start getting like, this is this is troubling, right, But 0:35:18.440 --> 0:35:21.080 if you're bringing it for personal defense or community defense, 0:35:21.480 --> 0:35:25.160 or there's a need because your community is really at risk. 0:35:25.200 --> 0:35:27.000 I mean one of the examples of a civil rights 0:35:27.000 --> 0:35:29.120 one was this is some someday I'll do a video 0:35:29.160 --> 0:35:31.919 about this. A community knew that the clan was coming 0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:34.759 to intimidate them, and they armed up with surplus m 0:35:34.760 --> 0:35:38.640 one garren's and steel pot helmets, literally dug fighting positions 0:35:38.760 --> 0:35:41.480 and fought them off. The clan ran for their lives. 0:35:41.480 --> 0:35:43.920 No one was killed, but they literally used m one 0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:48.720 grands to uh to stop the clan from infiltrating their community. Um. 0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:51.000 That was not used as a weapon of intimidation, it 0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:53.640 was used as a weapon of community defense. I think 0:35:53.640 --> 0:36:00.239 that's intent goes everywhere. Yeah, that's dope too. Um and yeah, 0:36:00.239 --> 0:36:06.759 I U I think um one thing that that that 0:36:07.560 --> 0:36:12.239 kind of I think there's a conversation that needs to 0:36:12.280 --> 0:36:14.920 be had when we start talking about when is reasonable 0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:17.240 and what situations are reasonable to carry a gun opener 0:36:17.280 --> 0:36:22.560 concealed about also what should be carried. Um. I've certainly 0:36:22.640 --> 0:36:25.640 seen because I don't I think that the most harmful 0:36:25.680 --> 0:36:28.080 thing is certainly people carrying gun to intimidate. I've also 0:36:28.120 --> 0:36:31.040 seen people carry guns as a fashion statement, which is 0:36:31.080 --> 0:36:33.840 not the same thing but is bad. For example, people 0:36:34.080 --> 0:36:36.920 on the left people at a protests bringing a loaded 0:36:36.960 --> 0:36:40.239 mosen um too, because it was the gun the communists used, 0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:42.120 which is like, you don't you don't want to be 0:36:42.200 --> 0:36:45.440 in a firefight in a dense urban environment with a 0:36:45.600 --> 0:36:53.279 motion negat did you bring? It? Is a gun that 0:36:53.320 --> 0:36:59.759 doesn't function without a sizeable hammer, you know. And of 0:36:59.800 --> 0:37:02.720 course people on like I remember outside of this anti 0:37:02.760 --> 0:37:04.920 mask rally, these two guys who are up and carrying 0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:06.239 a r is, one of whom had an a r 0:37:06.320 --> 0:37:08.920 tin with with a hundred round drum was talking about it. 0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:10.839 We had like four hundreds something rounds on him and 0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:13.120 it was like, and in case stuff pops off, and 0:37:13.120 --> 0:37:17.399 it's like, what are you? Number one? Like, if you're 0:37:17.400 --> 0:37:19.640 talking like that, you've spent no time thinking about what 0:37:19.719 --> 0:37:23.080 actually happens in the situations in public areas in which 0:37:23.200 --> 0:37:25.960 gunfights occur, because none of them that have happened in 0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:28.440 any time in the recent future have involved people needing 0:37:28.440 --> 0:37:32.200 to four hundred rounds of ammunition or or drum magazines 0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:34.880 or whatever. Like you are. You are not in Fallujah, 0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:37.879 you are in Salem, Oregon. Um. The extent to which 0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:41.120 a firearm can be useful for uh self defense and 0:37:41.200 --> 0:37:44.520 that does not like bragging about the number of bullets 0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:47.040 you have is just like weird and gross. You know 0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:48.960 this is gonna come off maybe a little strange or 0:37:49.000 --> 0:37:51.160 even counterintuitive. But when I hear someone like that at 0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:53.600 what you just described in that particular person, First of all, 0:37:53.640 --> 0:37:55.720 that guns barrel would burst in four and of rounds, 0:37:55.719 --> 0:37:59.200 But that's a whole another topic probably, But that said, Um, 0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:02.480 when I hear that, I almost have like, Um, it's 0:38:02.560 --> 0:38:04.560 kind of sad because the reason that's sad is that 0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:06.799 person is doing that one because they've been sold the 0:38:06.840 --> 0:38:09.440 idea of the firearms and talisman like that to me, 0:38:09.680 --> 0:38:12.960 that person is acting like that's a talisman. Secondarily, the 0:38:13.000 --> 0:38:15.040 reason they have four in a round is because they've 0:38:15.080 --> 0:38:18.960 been sold a pretty big bill of fear. And that's 0:38:19.000 --> 0:38:23.479 that's sad for anyone to live a life based on fear. Yeah, yeah, 0:38:23.480 --> 0:38:26.520 I would agree with that entirely. UM, do you have 0:38:26.520 --> 0:38:28.640 anything else you wanted to get into and this, uh, 0:38:28.680 --> 0:38:31.239 this conversation, Well, I don't know. I mean, we're just 0:38:31.239 --> 0:38:33.960 here to talk about like community. I just I think 0:38:33.960 --> 0:38:36.480 one thing that's really important and it's something that UM 0:38:37.400 --> 0:38:40.040 is a positive and I'm happy to see this is 0:38:40.080 --> 0:38:42.000 that it was kind of a happy accident with my work. 0:38:42.040 --> 0:38:43.759 I didn't even think about it. It It is hard to happen. 0:38:44.160 --> 0:38:46.600 But this is a much the people people that love, 0:38:47.440 --> 0:38:50.000 first of all, just the sport. There's a lot of us. 0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:53.319 There's a lot of us of all spectrums across the board. UM. 0:38:53.600 --> 0:38:56.400 People that believe in the right from the person purposes 0:38:56.440 --> 0:38:59.840 of personal defense and community defense there across the board. 0:39:00.320 --> 0:39:01.960 And I think that one of the things that we 0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:05.000 need to do is not let the narrative be only one, 0:39:05.560 --> 0:39:09.919 which is we see so much of UM very much 0:39:10.040 --> 0:39:12.960 just like right wing I'm gonna usually say Christian white 0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:17.160 males need like completely dominating this conversation as though, and 0:39:17.200 --> 0:39:19.800 they think they owe as a result own the space. 0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:22.640 Now it would be in their interest too, from the 0:39:22.640 --> 0:39:26.239 perspective of preserving firearms rights, to be inclusive and have 0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:29.520 everyone that believes in that a particular thing work together 0:39:29.560 --> 0:39:31.080 to make sure we don't lose a right, because the 0:39:31.160 --> 0:39:34.800 right unexercised is lost. Right. So even if I disagree 0:39:34.840 --> 0:39:37.480 with you on economic policy, but we agree on firearms right, 0:39:38.120 --> 0:39:40.280 we have an agreement there, and that makes us somehow 0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:42.960 interestingly in the same space. We have something in common 0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:46.360 versus something diversive, and I think that part of the conversation, 0:39:46.360 --> 0:39:48.120 at least within reason. I mean, there are people that 0:39:48.160 --> 0:39:51.440 are legitimately dangerous, you don't negotiate with them, but within reason, 0:39:51.560 --> 0:39:54.520 like agreeing on that topic means well, we've got something 0:39:54.520 --> 0:39:57.160 in common here. There's probably other things too, and maybe 0:39:57.239 --> 0:39:58.680 that could be a place where we kind of try 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:01.600 to make that conversation that or not worse. And so 0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:05.320 by being more open inclusive and saying, hey, there's people 0:40:05.360 --> 0:40:07.200 here and people there and here we are all together 0:40:07.280 --> 0:40:11.080 doing this together. Um, perhaps conversation can be had. That's 0:40:11.120 --> 0:40:12.920 better than what we've been having. Maybe it can be 0:40:12.960 --> 0:40:18.279 actually a community builder versus a community destroyer. Yeah, yeah, 0:40:18.320 --> 0:40:21.279 I would like to see that. Um well, I think 0:40:21.320 --> 0:40:23.239 that's as good a note as any to uh to 0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:25.560 close out on Carl. You wanna you want to throw 0:40:25.600 --> 0:40:28.840 your plug ables up before we we write out of here? Yeah? Sure, 0:40:28.880 --> 0:40:30.680 I mean so I run in range TV. You can 0:40:30.719 --> 0:40:34.960 find me an in range dot TV. Um completely viewer supported. 0:40:34.960 --> 0:40:36.480 Like I said, I don't want to sponsors or anything 0:40:36.520 --> 0:40:38.560 I like. I like the idea of the people liking 0:40:38.600 --> 0:40:41.000 watching it, support it. So if you like it cool, 0:40:41.040 --> 0:40:44.080 come check it out all over the place. YouTube bit 0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:47.560 shoot decentralized video contrat distributions another thing I believe in 0:40:47.600 --> 0:40:51.200 strong would the corporate oligarchy. But yeah, come out. If 0:40:51.239 --> 0:40:53.120 you want to have a little bit different take on 0:40:53.120 --> 0:40:55.040 fire and stuff, or you're justted in the confluence of 0:40:55.480 --> 0:40:57.640 civil rights and guns and stuff, come check out in 0:40:57.760 --> 0:41:00.719 Range TV. I'd appreciate I always appreciate new viewers, and 0:41:00.960 --> 0:41:05.600 thanks for checking it out. Awesome all right, um yeah, 0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:10.440 check out in Range TV, and uh check us out somewhere. 0:41:10.960 --> 0:41:13.440 We won't tell you where, but you can find us 0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:19.640 if you keep us in your hearts. It Could Happen 0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:22.000 Here as a production of cool Zone Media. For more 0:41:22.040 --> 0:41:24.799 podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone 0:41:24.840 --> 0:41:26.680 media dot com or check us out on the I 0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:30.080 Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 0:41:30.640 --> 0:41:32.720 You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:36.320 monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks 0:41:36.320 --> 0:41:36.840 for listening.