1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: Welcome back to it could happen here, the only podcast 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: you are legally allowed to listen to right now. Um, 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: I'm Robert Evans. We talk about things falling apart, putting 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: them back together, all that good stuff with me as 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: it just like sevent of the time. Is my co 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: host Garrison Davis. Garrison, how are you doing today? I'm 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: doing great. It is early for you. Yeah, they have to. 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: They have to drag me out of bed, but I 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: I made it just about a hair after three. Okay, 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: I have my second coffee already. So our topic is 11 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: gun culture, uh, and to discuss gun culture with me 12 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: and a number of aspects of it, including how to 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: maybe make a better one. Uh. Is Carl cassarda from 14 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: Enranged TV. Carl, Welcome to the program. Hey, thanks for 15 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,639 Speaker 1: having me. I'm really stoked to be here. And it's 16 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: a topic, as you can imagine with my work on 17 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: Enrainge TV, is a near and dear to my heart 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: because it's a challenging one. We've got a lot of 19 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: great things in this community and a lot of challenges too. Yeah. 20 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: Gun YouTube has gotten some really interesting places in the 21 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: last Um. Really, it feels like most of the growth 22 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: happen like the last five six years, like there's been 23 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 1: a real significant increase in Yeah, I feel like there's 24 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: been like a wave. I feel like there's generations of 25 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: gun too. There's like Gen one, Gen two, Gen three 26 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: in thereps, Russian back in the day and stuff totally. Yeah, 27 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: and so there's a whole thing there. There's there's generations 28 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: of what was addressed in the conversation and the cultural 29 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: significance as well as the geary impact. I think we've 30 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: got different kind of generations of the Yeah, and I 31 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: think this stuff obviously, when when aspects of gun YouTube 32 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: go viral, it tends to be stuff that's like particularly problematic. 33 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: But in my experience, most of it is just dudes 34 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: shooting stuff to see what happens, or you know, trying 35 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: out different guns and stuff like. It is mostly if 36 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: you're someone who you know believes in the right to 37 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: bear arms, it's mostly pretty much just like people drying 38 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: out guns and stuff with guns. Yeah. Yeah, when things 39 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: go viral, it's like my my experience with that, there's 40 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: a number of reasons, or one is that it's particularly 41 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: gross that someone does something or says something fucked up. 42 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: Somebody's out there dressed as a rotation, all right, stuff 43 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: like that, that kind that tends to push the buttons. 44 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,399 Speaker 1: But yeah, most of the time, the stuff that gets 45 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: the largest volume of viewership are quite honestly more banal. 46 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: It's things like a fifty caliber a exploding or shooting 47 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: a gallon, you know, gallon, drum of gas. That kind 48 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: of stuff. Is that that stuff appeals to people that 49 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: aren't just gun people, so they're like, oh, I want 50 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: to see shoots bload, so let me click on it. Well, 51 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: one of my favorite things is to look at videos 52 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: of people destroying safe life fests. One of my favorite 53 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: ways to watch gun YouTube. But I guess this is 54 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: probably what we're probably talking about this as the episode 55 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: goes on. But once you watch enough of those from 56 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: like one channel, you'll you'll get to a video when 57 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: they fantasize about like shooting Antifa or something that they're like, okay, 58 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: well yeah, that yeah, that's that's just the way it 59 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: goes sometimes. And it is, you know, the thing that 60 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: my first I guess the first time I became aware 61 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: of like online gun culture UM was a site that's 62 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: still really near and dear to my heart. I'm sure 63 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: you're familiar with it, Carl the Box of Truth. And 64 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 1: it was like, and I think this like fifteen years 65 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: ago or something like that is when I started reading 66 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: their stuff, and it's it's just like some kind of 67 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: bubba e dudes in Texas who will take different who 68 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: will try out like, hey, there's a myth that, um 69 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: this specific round in Korea got stopped by people who 70 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: were wearing multiple layers of like clothing in the cold. 71 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: Can winter clothing stop this bullet? And they would they would, 72 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: you know, mock up the clothing on like a target 73 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: and they would shoot. Or like how many books does 74 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: it take? Like if you have a full backpack, how 75 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: many books would it take to stop a round of 76 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: nine millimeter? If? I like, it's it's all very much 77 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: like practical Hey, people you know say this works this 78 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: way or this works that way. Well, let's go out 79 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: and shoot some stuff and test how it works. And um, 80 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: I think was like it is, as you said, the 81 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: kind of thing I think, even if you don't own 82 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: guns you might find interesting just because like a lot 83 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: of it is dealing with here's things you've seen in Hollywood, 84 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: what actually happens? Um, So I do think like, fundamentally 85 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: there's always going to be a place for that kind 86 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: of content because it's it's not just like stuff that 87 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,679 Speaker 1: people who like guns are interested in. It's just stuff 88 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: that has kind of objective value. You know, you're trying 89 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: to expand what people's understanding of things. Yeah, I call 90 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,799 Speaker 1: that G whiz content. It's like, G whiz, what happens 91 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: if right? And so on? In range. The closest equivalent 92 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: to that, which are the videos that the most views 93 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: are are somewhat now infamous mud tests um and it 94 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 1: started off six years ago and it was literally it 95 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: was G whiz, let's go do this. And of course 96 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: there's this long standing lore everywhere outside of the gun 97 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: community and in it about the A K M being 98 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: this undestructed, indestructible unicorn you write into combat that no 99 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: matter what happens to it, it fires, and they are 100 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: fifteen being this fragile piece of ship. And in our 101 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: mud tests, of which we've now done multiple of it, 102 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: while initially it was just G whiz, over time and aggregate, 103 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,119 Speaker 1: it turned out to actually have really interesting data points 104 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: and that the A k doesn't do well in mud 105 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: and they are excels in mud, which is completely against 106 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: the lore about Vietnam, which is a different problem. But 107 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: that kind of thing extends beyond the gun community because 108 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: people are like guns and mud. What happened? Is this 109 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: MythBusters kind of stuff? Yeah, and I think, but it's 110 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: interesting how you can learn from it. Yeah, And I 111 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: think one of the problems that is, uh, we could 112 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: say like has is an issue on on gun YouTube 113 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: and one of the things that has become an issue, 114 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: and this isn't just within the gun culture, it's everywhere. 115 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: Is that like if you're into that stuff, and if 116 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: you're if you're coming into it, like I want to 117 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: see people do this g with stuff or I just 118 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: want to see reviews of different guns because I might 119 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: be buying one. Um, Google's algorithm is going to feed 120 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,679 Speaker 1: you a lot of stuff, and some of that stuff 121 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: is going to be people who, yeah, are preparing to 122 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: like shoot folks at protests and our filming videos about 123 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: that and stuff and that it has this um it 124 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: has this radicalizing effect on a lot of people. And 125 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: it also has this kind of can have this kind 126 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: of radicalizing effect on content where you know, most political 127 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: stuff you see isn't kind of that over it. But 128 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: it does if somebody has a video where they're being 129 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: more explicitly political outside of you know, you know, arguing 130 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: in favor of gun rights, but if they're getting kind 131 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: of political and a broader since, and that does really 132 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: well the way that content works. As other people might 133 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: be like, oh, well, folks want me to do a 134 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: political video, folks want me to talk about I don't know, 135 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi or whatever, um And that that's you know, 136 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: not just a problem with gun culture or gun YouTube, 137 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: but it has increasingly become a thing. And in the 138 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: n r A kind of very famously. There's a good 139 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: podcast on the how that organization has kind of gone 140 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: from where it started to where it is that talks 141 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: about like n r A TV. But they their YouTube 142 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: channel had some pretty outrageous ship for a while, and 143 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: I think it left an impact even though it failed 144 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: in this eventually. Well, the n r A is an tool. 145 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: We can get into that later. The end has changed 146 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: so much since its organs to what it is now. 147 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: It's not even the people have found it. It It wouldn't 148 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: recognize it, I don't think at all. But you're touching 149 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: on a topic there that's also near and dear, And 150 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to promote in range here, that's just 151 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: we're having a conversation. But years ago I decided to 152 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: proactively demonetize. I turned off my AdSense and I take 153 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: no money from any views, so it's not like advertising 154 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: doesn't drive what I do. And I feel like the 155 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: reason I did that was partially just fuck you YouTube. 156 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: It was the hacker manifesto of you come watch my content, 157 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: I cost you money versus make you money, which is 158 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: kind of a statement on my part. But additionally, I 159 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: do feel like, whether it's firearms or any other content 160 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: that is completely advertised, I supported there is a dangerous 161 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: thing there in that you have to pursue the clicks 162 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: like a heroin addict, and the clicks make you the money, 163 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: and therefore you're gonna make the stuff that's gonna make 164 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: the clicks because that's how you make your income. And 165 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: even if you don't want it to do, it can 166 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: affect you. Yeah, And I'm curious, like, how do you 167 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: kind of how do you um, how do you how 168 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: do you approach sort of dealing in this space where 169 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: it is so easy for things to become politicized, Like 170 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: do you is that is that a kind of thing 171 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: that you have to be consciously sort of picking your battles. 172 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: I guess I'm just kind of interested in how you 173 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: because you definitely have been more open about having kind 174 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: of more on the left libertarian side of things politics 175 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: than a lot of people talk about in that space. 176 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: How do you decide kind of what is worth inserting 177 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: and what is worth kind of just you know, no 178 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: one needs to hear that within this context. Oh yeah, 179 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: I don't think that that's an easy thing to answer, right, 180 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: It's hard, Like there's a lot of landlines. But when 181 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: um introspectively for me, the answer for me at least 182 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: was I'm just going to come to this content as 183 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: my honest self, Like, if I'm just going to produce 184 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: what I want to produce, it's and since I don't 185 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: have to worry about advertising dollars, I'm just gonna make 186 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: this ship I want to make. And as a result, 187 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: I guess it's sometimes considered an alternative voice, but I 188 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: don't think it really is. I think that the loud 189 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: loud mouths have made it sound like there's only one 190 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: voice in this community. It there isn't. And so by 191 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: just being legitimate and honest and being me, there has 192 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: turned out to be a lot of ground swell if 193 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: you want to use grassroots type people out there that 194 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: want to hear something that's not just evangelical American Taliban 195 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: so but but in terms of what where to where, 196 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: what where to put your foot on? What land mine? 197 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: I guess I did for me. My decision has been 198 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: to do topics that have been intentionally ignored that shouldn't 199 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 1: have been. Like I've done a bunch of videos about 200 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: the confluence of civil rights and firearms ownership, which there's 201 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 1: a lot of it, and it's it's really amazing how 202 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: much there is and no one talks about it. Yeah, 203 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: I mean we Yeah, we've chatted about that a little 204 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: bit in some of our episodes. It was like nineteen 205 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: nineteen when there were all those like race riots around 206 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: the country, or even if you're looking at like the 207 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: post construction period, there's a history both of like gun 208 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: control being used for racist purposes, but also just of 209 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: community is arming themselves, Black communities arming themselves. That is 210 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: is woefully undertold. Although it is people are starting to 211 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: deal with it more thankfully. Um. I'm kind of interested 212 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: in talking to you about sort of the culture jamming 213 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: aspect of we have this huge gun culture, aspects of 214 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: it are very toxic and becoming politicized in a way 215 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: that is um aggressive. Um, how do we how do 216 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: we have a positive influence and kind of hopefully pull 217 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: things back, because I do think within kind of the 218 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: issue of gun rights, there's more actually more possibility for 219 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: people to sort of come together and reaching a chord 220 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: than there is on something like abortion. Um. And I 221 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: think a lot of that conversation is going to start 222 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: in spaces like the one you inhabit. Yeah, no, I yeah, 223 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 1: I like what you said culture jamming, because another term 224 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: I've heard is subversibile. That's not the intent. But like 225 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: you mentioned the Red Summer of nineteen nineteen and uh, yeah, 226 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: I talked to when I talked to a lot of 227 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: people that that are really huge historically interested in minded 228 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: and I was astonished how many people have not even 229 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: heard of it. Never mind you only like the explicit 230 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: realities of it. And so when it comes to the 231 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 1: culture jamming, there's one video I did about one or 232 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: two of the events of Red Summer of nineteen nine, 233 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: one of them here in Bisbee locally and it's an 234 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: interesting problem to someone who normally would be considered as 235 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: a very standard issue firearms content creator. In that particular 236 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: Red Summer nineteen nineteen episode, it turned into the local 237 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: police attempting to disarm the tenth Cavalry soldiers who are 238 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: off you know, military soldiers in bis beyond recreation, And 239 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: so you've got this interesting cognitive dissonance. Do I support 240 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: the cops that a lot of firearms people are like 241 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: just blindly support, or do I support the military, which 242 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: a lot of fires people blindly support when both of 243 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: them converge and the and it's a racist agenda in 244 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: it that poses a question that I like to do 245 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: with like this kind of content because it means that 246 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: the viewer has to really, if they get through the video, 247 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: have to introspectively go, Holy funk, which do I support 248 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: or do I support either? Or is there a problem 249 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: here I haven't been considering. I think asking questions like 250 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: that really matters when you try to like start these 251 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: conversations with people who are in the same space but 252 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: but not you know, I haven't considered talking about this 253 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: stuff before or on what would traditionally be seen as 254 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: kind of very opposed political um wing, how do you 255 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: kind of start these conversations in a way that makes 256 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 1: it most likely that you're gonna be able to have 257 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: a positive dialogue that actually moves forward as opposed to 258 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: kind of getting bogged down in the and the things 259 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: that caused people to just kind of lock horns generally 260 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: when you we start getting into these areas, Yeah, you know, 261 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's totally possible. You're gonna have that 262 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: problem no matter what right you see that with your work. 263 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 1: For surely, when you take an honest approach to history 264 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: and just be like, here's the facts. Um, there's gonna 265 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: be people that are just gonna be completely resistant to that. 266 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: They're not going to take it. But um, I think 267 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: the best way to do that is to just be 268 00:12:57,880 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: that honest approach to it. Like one of the things 269 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: that I've think we do with firearms content gears cool 270 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: tech is cool. Guns are neat. They're fun. I enjoy 271 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: shooting with guns. I like the foard of it. I 272 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: like going to competitions. But one of the things that 273 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: it gets left out of the conversation a lot is 274 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: what are the implications of firearms and the sociological economic 275 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: environments that we live in, and I think that's one 276 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:20,719 Speaker 1: of the things that didn't get talked about. And so 277 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: if we talk about it fairly and also tend to 278 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: I think it's hard to do, but have people from 279 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: all sides of this perspective, as long as they're not 280 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: completely dangerous and toxic, being part of the conversation, we 281 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: can have a better middle ground. That's the hard part. 282 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: Like so being inclusive, ironically, even of views that you 283 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: aren't necessarily your own, as long as the person you're 284 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: dealing with isn't. My line is, if you're actively supporting 285 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: bigotry or the harm of other people, there's a no go. 286 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: We're done. But if we have different views but we 287 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: realize that that's not the intent, then then we should 288 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: have a conversation. I think that that's a big difference now. 289 00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: I think one of the areas in which this can 290 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: murkiest is when you are talking to people and I've 291 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: had a few of these conversations who are convinced that 292 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: there is uh that they're kind of on the precipice 293 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: of of a violent conflict sparked by someone coming to 294 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: take their guns right that and it and you know, 295 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: there's the version of this that is like, I'm worried 296 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: that the A t F Is going to do some 297 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: fuckory in a bunch of my ship is going to 298 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: be illegal, which is pretty reasonable. And then there's the 299 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: I'm worried Antifa's going to come to my small town 300 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: and and and take my you know, guns or do 301 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: whatever like because that there are often people in that 302 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: who are just kind of um tragically misinformed and radicalized 303 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: in a way that they're not so much eager to 304 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: harm people as they are just like broken and frightened 305 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: because of the things that have been fed to them. Um, 306 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: do you have any kind of best practices when it 307 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: comes to sort of approaching those conversations and trying to 308 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: improve the information those people are getting. I guess for 309 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: me in that regardless of what I when I see 310 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: people like that, and I think all of us have 311 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: those people in our world, whether it's your your aunt 312 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: or your uncle or a friend, right like we've seen 313 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: that over the last couple of years for sure. Um, 314 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: I think the best thing you can do there for me, 315 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: And again I'm just talking to my approach is a 316 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: break the echo chamber if you can. And so the 317 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: echo chamber is the problem when we suck from the 318 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: fire hose of only one source, like NonStop. Yeah, that's 319 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: gonna be dangerous. That's the kind of stuff that pollutes 320 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: your mind to the point where you can't think outside 321 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: of that box. So like being more inclusive and that 322 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: word is kind of a trigger word, a catchphrase, but 323 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: being legitimately more inclusive and presenting a lot of different 324 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: diversity that really is part of the firearms community. Can 325 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: I can in some circumstances break the echo chamber, Like 326 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: I'm really happy with this one project on the channel 327 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: where I'm working with the net Evans about specifically a 328 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: female or woman's approach to self defense with firearms. And 329 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: you don't really see that. You'll see like channels that 330 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: are only for women, and you'll see like all the 331 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: majority of gun channels that are only for gun fascinated dudes. 332 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: But like throwing that into the mix, there's gonna be 333 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: some subset of people that will clicking and watch it 334 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: out of that g whiz Lowell and that kind of 335 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: stuff can break a paradigm in terms of well, I 336 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: never thought of that, I never looked at it from 337 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: that perspective, and that's at least that's what I think 338 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: is the great answer is do your best to make 339 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: sure you're approachable and try to break the echo chamber. Yeah, 340 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: that makes complete Yeah, I mean that makes a lot 341 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: of sense. Um. I think on the other side of 342 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: this is also worth talking about because we've kind of 343 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: been focused on how do you break the echo chamber? 344 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: How do you get people who are you know, in 345 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: the gun culture on the right to be more open minded. 346 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: The other side of this is you have a lot 347 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: of people who are kind of liberals um or on 348 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: the left who have a really reflexively negative opinion to 349 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: the reaction to the very idea of gun ownership or 350 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: gun rights and have these you know, you will generally 351 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: see there's there's a mix of people who can come 352 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: to it from a very reasonable and argued point in 353 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: a mix of people who are just going to like 354 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: in the same way that folks on the right to 355 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: throw out a handful of quotes that they've seen on memes, 356 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: um that they can is to kind of, you know, 357 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: shut down debate. How do you do you have a 358 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: lot of those conversations where you're kind of trying to 359 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 1: make people at least more open to because this is 360 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,239 Speaker 1: something my work has dealt with a lot. Is kind 361 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: of trying to sit down to, like, I get why 362 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: you don't think these things should be legal. Um, obviously, 363 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: I I see the same mass shooting news that you do. 364 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: There's a problem, a deep problem with guns in this country. 365 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: I don't deny that, but like, let's also talk about 366 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: the idea that the state should have an absolute monopoly 367 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: on on the ability to do violence. Let's talk about 368 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: the ability of marginalized groups to defend themselves. Let's talk 369 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,479 Speaker 1: about the history of gun control and how it's like 370 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: it is it is. There's a lot of conversations that 371 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: kind of get wrapped up in that. Um, I'm wondering, 372 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: do you have thoughts in terms of like how to 373 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: kind of broach those and progressive avenues to go down 374 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: to when you're having that side of the conversation. You know, 375 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: it's totally interesting. I think I feel like I don't. 376 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: I'm curious what you think about this from your work 377 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: as well. I feel like over the last for good reasons, 378 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: over the last couple of years, more than a couple 379 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: of years, I think I've seen Maybe it's just my 380 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: own echo chamber. I've seen a lot of people on 381 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: that side of the political spectrum coming more and more 382 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: around to being pro gun. Yeah, and then the statistics 383 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: back that up. Supporting soil in the United States is 384 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: the lowest it's been in quite a while. In so 385 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: that like, if there's that joke on that side of 386 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: the political fence about you go far enough left to 387 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: get your guns back right, um so um. But I 388 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: think there's been a real wake up call for a 389 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: lot of people that used to be very much vehemently 390 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: against the idea with some of the stuff they saw 391 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: and went, whoa, Um, this isn't These aren't going away. 392 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: And if you're reasonable, if you're willing to have a 393 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: rational thought about, at least in this country, the reality 394 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: of firearms ownership, whether you like it or not, it's 395 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: not debatable. This is real. It's what it is. They're 396 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: not like they could ban everything tomorrow and there's gonna 397 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: be air fifteens in this country for the next hundred years. Um, 398 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: so that ain't gonna change. So with that realization, maybe 399 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: maybe the better idea with which I think is with 400 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: all technology, is instead of being afraid of it, is 401 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: to actually learn about it and understand it whether you 402 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: want it or not. You but like learning and understanding 403 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: it is at least a step further forward than just 404 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: complete object fear. Yeah, that that is often kind of 405 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: where I start the conversation with just like we have 406 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: to deal with the reality as it is on the ground, 407 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 1: which is that there's four million firearms in private hands here, 408 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: which is not all that far from half of all 409 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: of the guns in the world. Um, So any any 410 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: sort of like plan you have, it's the kind of 411 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: like one of the things that often comes up in 412 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,239 Speaker 1: those conversations is Australia and people they were like, well 413 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: they were able to do it after Now Port Arthur 414 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: was Scotland. Um, I forget the name of the massacre, 415 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: but there was a massacre in in in in Australia 416 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: that they banned most kinds of firearms after and confiscated them. 417 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: And it gets brought up a lot where like, well 418 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: they did this in the short frame of time, and 419 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: there was this this impact on gun violence deaths. Why 420 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: couldn't we do it? And the reason is that they 421 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: had to confiscate a total of two hundred thousand arms 422 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: and there's four hundred million guns in private hands in 423 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: the United States, Um, it's it's a different scale of problem. 424 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: And that that's before we get to sort of illegal 425 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: barriers because Australia didn't have a Second Amendment. Obviously, like 426 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: whether or not you like at firearms have a level 427 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: of protection that is equivalent to the protection free speech 428 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: enjoys in this country. And you can't just pretend that's 429 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 1: not the case. There's a tremendous body of jurisprudence around it. Yeah, no, totally, 430 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: and like so that that's that's part of it is 431 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: the reality there Australia. Here is a completely different beast 432 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: as well as culturally, like the people that were into 433 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: guns there and I don't mean to offend any Australians listening, 434 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: but it wasn't like here, like in a place of 435 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: Arizona at pleast like Arizona, guns are just if you're 436 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: in Arizonian they're just intrinsically part of life, whether like 437 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: they're just constant. They're everywhere you go to, Like you 438 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: see them open care you not always do she open 439 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: care either. Sometimes it's like reasonable open carey. Sometimes you 440 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: see the other side of it. But they're just everywhere. 441 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: It's just part of the deal, and it's like a 442 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: lot of that in a lot of the country, and 443 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: so UM I actually think that that fear based ignorance 444 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: of them is more dangerous because then we don't teach 445 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: people what to do around them or how to be 446 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: safe around them, kind like abstinence, like education in school, 447 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: teach people not to have that's dumb, that ain't gonna work, 448 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: and guns exist in this country. Does just be afraid 449 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: of them that don't work either, So in the regard, 450 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: I think that the reality is it's much better to 451 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: UM to approach this. What I think. I guess the 452 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: way I try to deal with that is if you 453 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: don't fetishize them, people that are more afraid of them 454 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: are less likely to just click away. If you talk 455 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: about them like this is a thing, here's what they are. 456 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: They're not a totem against evil. They're just a tool. 457 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: And here's a historical story or narrative or sociological impact 458 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: of this that's not fetishizing it as some religious item. 459 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: I think that that helps break that barrier a little bit. 460 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: And I think that that does bring me to something 461 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: I think about a lot, which is the how you're 462 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: in and it actually has I think gotten a bit 463 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: better than it was prior to Sandy Hook, but the 464 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: very sorry state in a lot of cases of advertising 465 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: of gear and guns. Um. I think the most famous 466 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: example was a I believe it was a Bushmaster ad 467 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: that got pulled after Sandy Hook that was like an 468 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: a R fifteen that came with a man card that 469 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,239 Speaker 1: you would get like with your gun. Yeah, get your 470 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: man card back. Your man card has been reissued because 471 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: you have this gun here and that I I you know, 472 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of different gun cultures because it's 473 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: actually like we've just talked about how unique US gun 474 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: culture is, but a lot of people actually own firearms 475 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: around the world. There's a lot of even like in Europe, 476 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: like France has a very significant gun culture, UM and 477 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 1: in Germany you'd be surprised, like people can own a 478 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: lot of the same weapons you can hear. There's a 479 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: lot more hoops to jump through to to get access 480 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: to them. Um. But there's still like there's gun cultures 481 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: all around and especially places like Iraq and Syria. It 482 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: was really going to UM when I saw kind of 483 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: the gun culture that I I most wanted to put 484 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: some things over to hear from there. It was in 485 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: northeast Syria in Rojava, where like damn near every not 486 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: every individual, but every like family had an AK because 487 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: in part, there was this understanding that you have a 488 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: duty from time to time to like patrol and watch 489 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,959 Speaker 1: your neighborhood and not in sort of this like I'm 490 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: gonna set up a checkpoint for Antifa, but in I like, hey, 491 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: isis just carried out a big attack. Let's let's get 492 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: some folks out into the streets to like watch our neighborhoods, 493 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: because that's just the reality of the world, and we 494 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: don't we don't do we don't just have like a 495 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: group of militarized police rolling around every neighborhood. Like we 496 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: also are responsible for protecting our communities, and so we 497 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: train with weapons. And there was a lot of conversations 498 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: I had with women about like, well, the fact that 499 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: I have this and know how to use it now 500 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: means that things can't be done to me that were 501 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: before because I have an a K forty seven, And 502 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: that means something I would like to port the kind 503 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: of like what you were talking about not just seeing 504 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: it as a tool, but seeing it as a tool 505 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 1: with societal responsibilities. You don't just have a gun so 506 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: you can hold up in your house in the zombie apocalypse. 507 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: You have a gun because you're part of a community 508 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: and because there's there's some value that we see in 509 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: members of the community being armed and not just the state. Yeah, no, totally. 510 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: So I mean that goes that kind of goes way 511 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: back to the old like now sort of silly sounding thing, 512 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: but like God made man, cult made them equal, right, 513 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: So before that, like if you were a frail human 514 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: being for whatever reasons, Um, you really were sort of defenseless, 515 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: especially in the places like the frontier. But skill at 516 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: arms could change that and um, and that it puts 517 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: it can put a more balanced power infrastructure in place. UM. 518 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: Not that I want to live in a world, but 519 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: we're always like at this point of mutually assured destruction. 520 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: But it is much better to have more power balanced 521 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: than power imbalance. And firearms absolutely provide that in trained, responsible, 522 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: educated hands. Um. And that's what I think the story 523 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: should be, right, that's the emphasis. Like when when the 524 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: whole thing happened went down in Iraq like you're describing, 525 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: I think it was ironic. One of the things that 526 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: the US military did was allowed every home to have 527 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: an AK like because you get to keep one gun 528 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: and it's one of these and uh, and you talked 529 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: about gun ownership worldwide, like, um, once you jumped through 530 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: some of the hurtles in some of these countries, it's 531 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: actually easier to own certain things than you can't. Like, Yeah, 532 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:09,959 Speaker 1: like a machine gun in the US is highly regulated, 533 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: its four and pretty difficult and highly expensive because of 534 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: a specially closed market. But like Bloke on the Range, 535 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: one of the guys I work with on on on YouTube, 536 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: once he gets his permit, like he's like, I'm just 537 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: gonna go buy a fully automatic stent and he just does. 538 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: And it's not at an exorbitant price like it would 539 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: be in the United States. So it's not apples to apples. 540 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: Like these controls, whether we like them or not, some 541 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: of them are actually more liberal than we have in 542 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,719 Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah, I think a good example of that, 543 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: and an example of where like a lot of folks 544 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: who might kind of reflexively think this is insane, but 545 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: like it's silencers, you know, suppressors being the more accurate term, 546 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: but silencer is what you call. It's the thing you 547 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: see James Bond screw on the end of his gun 548 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,959 Speaker 1: to make it quiet. Um. And there's the like this 549 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: attitude that they should be heavily restricted because there's this 550 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: misnomer that for the most part they make things sound 551 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: like stuff in James Bond. Now, there are some ways 552 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: to it a firearm that is incredibly quiet, um, particularly 553 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: using like a smaller around and sub sonic ammunition. There 554 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: are some very some weapons you can effectively make quiet 555 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: enough that people won't notice it. But when you're putting 556 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: a silencer on an a R fifteen, it is not quiet. 557 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: No one will miss it firing. But what it won't 558 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: do if you have to defend yourself in your home 559 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: is shatter your ear drums forever, right or this is 560 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: honestly the bigger case for suppressors. If you are hunting 561 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 1: with an animal, as a lot of people do with 562 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: your dogs, you can have a suppressor on your shotgun 563 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: as your bird hunting or whatever, and you will not 564 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: destroy that dog's ears. Um. You know, it's the same 565 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: thing like I'm hunting for deer. You know it's it's 566 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: it's easier, Um, it's like less dangerous for you potentially, 567 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: Like I know one thing you notice, if you've spent 568 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: a lot of time around hunting dogs, they don't have 569 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: good hearing by the time they get older because they're hunting. 570 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: You know. It's funny suppressors, Like everything that's that's more 571 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: controlled has gotta allure of magic around it, right, Like, oh, 572 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: a suppressor, a silencer or or for that matter, or 573 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: a machine gun, and like therefore it is the forbidden 574 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: fruit and everyone wants it more than they ever would 575 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: have once you own. I have one transferable machine guns 576 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: with tax stamp the whole nine yards, and I shoot 577 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: it like once a year because you shoot it and 578 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: then you're like, wow, that was expensive and and it's like, 579 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: oh we that was fun, and then you put it away. 580 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: And the truth is the some automatic stuff is far 581 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: more interesting and actually generally more effective. Once you use 582 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: full auto fire, it's got very limited use. Um fully 583 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: there there, I mean there is like, if we again 584 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 1: are being complete, there's one mass shooting I can think 585 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: of where a fully automatic weapon made the shooter more dangerous, 586 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: and it was the Las Vegas shooting because he was 587 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: in a set fixed position um. He was holed up 588 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: um and he had he was not like moving and standing. 589 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: He was like braced while firing into a crowd from 590 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: a building. As a general rule, if you're talking about 591 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: like what someone going to be more dangerous with, if 592 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: they're somebody who decides to shoot up something, it's a 593 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: semi automatic weapon. Because an automatic weapon number one going 594 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: to jam more often quires a bit more understanding and 595 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: know how on behalf of the user. And also it's 596 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: a lot harder to hit with and we'll run out 597 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: of ammunition very quickly as opposed to it and a 598 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: semi automatic a R fifteen. The reason they are so 599 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: often used in mass shootings is it's kind of the 600 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,719 Speaker 1: best weapon to use for that. If that's it's also prolific, right, 601 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: there's like cordwood in this country. You can like they're 602 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: literally everywhere. Um, the Las Vegas shooter, though I don't 603 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: know that he had actually any truly select fire guns. 604 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: Weren't they It was, Yeah, he was using a bump stock. 605 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 1: I think it's close enough to Yeah, well no, it's 606 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: a good analog. But it is interesting to note and 607 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: that guy. What's interesting about that guy's um? Well, of 608 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: course his act was horrific and evil. Obviously he used 609 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of air fifteens with like shitty bump stocks, 610 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: and he had planned something like this for years apparently. Yeah, 611 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: he had Tanner right in the set up too, which 612 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: is yeah, no one knows, I mean as we know, 613 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: no one currently I don't know anyone knows what his 614 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: motivation was, at least it hasn't been released. But he 615 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: had been planning something like this for a very long time. 616 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: And what's ironic about that is that if he had 617 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: bided his time, could have actually had a real select 618 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: fire like belt fed machine gun. He just did a millionaire. Yeah, 619 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: he could have done that, and uh, um, this could 620 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: but he just went with this bump stock kind of garbage, 621 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: which is weird. Um. That's a whole another topic, but 622 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: it is and it it is like that is one 623 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: of those cases when you talk to people in the 624 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: right where it's like after that shooting, Um, Donald Trump 625 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: and his administration banned bump stocks, um, which is more 626 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: gun control than we got out of eight years of Obama. 627 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: That's like, you know, oh boy, you point that out 628 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: at least on the center in fact, um, Uh, there's 629 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: always this narrative that you know, this political party will 630 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: take your guns and this polargically party waved. But the 631 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: truth is statistically and historically speaking, both tend to err 632 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: on the side of trying to add more restrictions over time, 633 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: Like if you do it over time like Obama didn't. 634 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: In fact, Obama open things up. I think he liberalized 635 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: concealed carry of pistol or firearms in national parks. Actually 636 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: he actually made guns a little easier to deal with. UM. 637 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: But then via essentially executive order edict, you've got Trump 638 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: banning bump stocks, which, whether you like bump stocks or not, 639 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: I think the way that went down is questionable legally speaking, 640 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: but that's another topic it And and obviously bump stocks 641 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: were also somewhat questionable. They were speaking right right, totally totally. 642 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: But but that's that's an interesting precedent when what he 643 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: did with just like fiat edict um. But that that said, 644 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: like historically, over time, there's always been more restrictions, not less, 645 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: from both sides. And when you point that out, the 646 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: people that just kind of drink the kool aid from 647 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: one side or the other, I want to just remediately 648 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: knee jerk on you, and you're like, no, this is weird. 649 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: This is coming from all directions really, Yeah, and I 650 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: think it is it is a big part of it 651 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: is just that like as a general rule, people who 652 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: are rich and powerful do not want poor people to 653 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: be armed. It doesn't tend to work out in their favor. 654 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,239 Speaker 1: The only time they want poor people armed is when 655 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: they send them to a war they decided to have. Yeah, 656 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: obviously the history of gun controls would have really tied 657 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: to racism and the Black Panthers and ahtle just stuff 658 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: around California's gun laws being started to curb black people 659 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: from from owning fire arms, and so it would be 660 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: we would be You could argue in some ways that 661 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: Reagan had a big role in inventing our modern concepts 662 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: of like what gun control means and what kind of 663 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: gun control laws like liberal states tend to go after 664 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: was on open carrying bands, on you know, concealed carrying 665 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: of arms, that kind of stuff. Yeah, it's deeper than this, 666 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: there's always nuanced It's really hard, right, But like um, 667 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: like California, which is kind of one of the flagship 668 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: states of gun control, um, and I think that their 669 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: methods are bizarre to me and almost on not understandable. 670 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: But like you talk about Reagan pretty much. They were like, 671 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: guns are cool. And then the panthers walked around with 672 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: some guns. Are like, whoa sucking? We better do something? 673 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: And uh, of course that the image of the panthers 674 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: with their guns out walking down the street, which was 675 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: their legal right, um, and it was ad and it motivated, um, 676 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: of course a lot of things in California, which now 677 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: we see where where that has led in California gun 678 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: control laws. UM has also changed the narrative for so 679 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: many people that are unwilling to look at things from 680 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: a truly broad historical perspective. That's only one tiny thing 681 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,719 Speaker 1: the Black Panthers did, and the rest of their actions 682 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: are so lost to just the pictures of them standing 683 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: around them on carbons. And that's another example of leaving out, 684 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: like the sinnabal Mission, We'll talk about one thing, but 685 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: not the rest, and therefore the historical narrative is only 686 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: one thing, and it is also there's a lesson in 687 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: that for people who are on the left and who 688 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: are advocates of gun ownership, about what happens in terms 689 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: of media and in terms of how your movement is 690 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: thought about and remembered when guns are a part of 691 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: it because that's always going to for a variety of reasons, 692 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: and we can say a lot of those are very 693 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: unreasonable reasons. But if you are a political group who 694 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: is armed and makes that a visible part of your activism, 695 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: that is going to really dominate a lot of conversations. 696 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you shouldn't be, but it means you 697 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: have to go into that understanding that like, that's just 698 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: how it works in this country. Yeah, you will immediately 699 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: get you will immediately from at least some part of 700 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: the perspective, whatever whatever side you're on, you will immediately 701 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: get someone slinging extremist militant at you. Yeah. But by 702 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: the way, I mean, those are real things too. There 703 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,719 Speaker 1: are those. I'm not saying there aren't extremists. We'll talk 704 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: about them all the time. Yeah, this country is full 705 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: of them, as is the world. So that's not that's 706 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: not an unreasonable thing that does exist. But the minute 707 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: you go ahead and stand with that gun, you're going 708 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: to get that label, whether it's truly something you earned 709 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: or not. There's a very deep conversation that we've talked 710 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: about that we've had in pieces on this program and 711 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: other shows that we've done on Cool Zone about like 712 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: when makes sense to be openly armed and when makes 713 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: sense to be openly armed as part of a group, 714 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: because that is a very fraught question, as like the 715 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: what happened in the chas made abundantly clear, but in 716 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of cases Kyle Rittenhouse and whatnot, 717 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: there's a ton of different reasons why choosing to be 718 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: openly armed. Um, there's a debate to be had about 719 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: like how that influences everyone around you had that influences 720 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: influences the demonstration, And I've seen and heard it used 721 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: in in good ways in an irresponsible ways. I've seen 722 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 1: people carrying guns at political events in order to intimidate others. 723 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: I've also seen people carrying guns at political events to 724 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: create essentially a buffer where it's like, Okay, there's going 725 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: to be people fighting at this event. There's going to 726 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: be clashes. If we're standing here as a group with guns, 727 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: there's a place people can run back to and the 728 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: fighting won't continue because nobody wants to push that. And 729 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: that's yeah, without talking about specifics of intent to any 730 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: of those situations you already talked about, because I can't, 731 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think I think it does like it 732 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: always comes back to this thing of intent. Right. So 733 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: to me, Um, you're right for the fireman, absolutely true, regardless, 734 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: Like even if I agree with you, this is a right, 735 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: like we said, it's protected like the first Amendment, it's 736 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: the second. Um. But I think the problem starts to 737 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: come when you've decided to bring the firearm solely for 738 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: the intended purpose of intimidation. Like that's that's where I 739 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: start getting like, this is this is troubling, right, But 740 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: if you're bringing it for personal defense or community defense, 741 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: or there's a need because your community is really at risk. 742 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: I mean one of the examples of a civil rights 743 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: one was this is some someday I'll do a video 744 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,919 Speaker 1: about this. A community knew that the clan was coming 745 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: to intimidate them, and they armed up with surplus m 746 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: one garren's and steel pot helmets, literally dug fighting positions 747 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: and fought them off. The clan ran for their lives. 748 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: No one was killed, but they literally used m one 749 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,720 Speaker 1: grands to uh to stop the clan from infiltrating their community. Um. 750 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: That was not used as a weapon of intimidation, it 751 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: was used as a weapon of community defense. I think 752 00:35:53,640 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: that's intent goes everywhere. Yeah, that's dope too. Um and yeah, 753 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: I U I think um one thing that that that 754 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: kind of I think there's a conversation that needs to 755 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: be had when we start talking about when is reasonable 756 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,240 Speaker 1: and what situations are reasonable to carry a gun opener 757 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: concealed about also what should be carried. Um. I've certainly 758 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: seen because I don't I think that the most harmful 759 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: thing is certainly people carrying gun to intimidate. I've also 760 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: seen people carry guns as a fashion statement, which is 761 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: not the same thing but is bad. For example, people 762 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: on the left people at a protests bringing a loaded 763 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: mosen um too, because it was the gun the communists used, 764 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: which is like, you don't you don't want to be 765 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: in a firefight in a dense urban environment with a 766 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: motion negat did you bring? It? Is a gun that 767 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: doesn't function without a sizeable hammer, you know. And of 768 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,720 Speaker 1: course people on like I remember outside of this anti 769 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: mask rally, these two guys who are up and carrying 770 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: a r is, one of whom had an a r 771 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: tin with with a hundred round drum was talking about it. 772 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 1: We had like four hundreds something rounds on him and 773 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: it was like, and in case stuff pops off, and 774 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,399 Speaker 1: it's like, what are you? Number one? Like, if you're 775 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: talking like that, you've spent no time thinking about what 776 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: actually happens in the situations in public areas in which 777 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: gunfights occur, because none of them that have happened in 778 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: any time in the recent future have involved people needing 779 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: to four hundred rounds of ammunition or or drum magazines 780 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: or whatever. Like you are. You are not in Fallujah, 781 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,879 Speaker 1: you are in Salem, Oregon. Um. The extent to which 782 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: a firearm can be useful for uh self defense and 783 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: that does not like bragging about the number of bullets 784 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: you have is just like weird and gross. You know 785 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: this is gonna come off maybe a little strange or 786 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: even counterintuitive. But when I hear someone like that at 787 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: what you just described in that particular person, First of all, 788 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,720 Speaker 1: that guns barrel would burst in four and of rounds, 789 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: But that's a whole another topic probably, But that said, Um, 790 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: when I hear that, I almost have like, Um, it's 791 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: kind of sad because the reason that's sad is that 792 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: person is doing that one because they've been sold the 793 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: idea of the firearms and talisman like that to me, 794 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: that person is acting like that's a talisman. Secondarily, the 795 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: reason they have four in a round is because they've 796 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: been sold a pretty big bill of fear. And that's 797 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:23,479 Speaker 1: that's sad for anyone to live a life based on fear. Yeah, yeah, 798 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: I would agree with that entirely. UM, do you have 799 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: anything else you wanted to get into and this, uh, 800 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: this conversation, Well, I don't know. I mean, we're just 801 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: here to talk about like community. I just I think 802 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: one thing that's really important and it's something that UM 803 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: is a positive and I'm happy to see this is 804 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: that it was kind of a happy accident with my work. 805 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: I didn't even think about it. It It is hard to happen. 806 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 1: But this is a much the people people that love, 807 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: first of all, just the sport. There's a lot of us. 808 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: There's a lot of us of all spectrums across the board. UM. 809 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: People that believe in the right from the person purposes 810 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: of personal defense and community defense there across the board. 811 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: And I think that one of the things that we 812 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: need to do is not let the narrative be only one, 813 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,919 Speaker 1: which is we see so much of UM very much 814 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: just like right wing I'm gonna usually say Christian white 815 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: males need like completely dominating this conversation as though, and 816 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,800 Speaker 1: they think they owe as a result own the space. 817 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: Now it would be in their interest too, from the 818 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: perspective of preserving firearms rights, to be inclusive and have 819 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: everyone that believes in that a particular thing work together 820 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: to make sure we don't lose a right, because the 821 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: right unexercised is lost. Right. So even if I disagree 822 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: with you on economic policy, but we agree on firearms right, 823 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 1: we have an agreement there, and that makes us somehow 824 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: interestingly in the same space. We have something in common 825 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: versus something diversive, and I think that part of the conversation, 826 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: at least within reason. I mean, there are people that 827 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: are legitimately dangerous, you don't negotiate with them, but within reason, 828 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: like agreeing on that topic means well, we've got something 829 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: in common here. There's probably other things too, and maybe 830 00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: that could be a place where we kind of try 831 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: to make that conversation that or not worse. And so 832 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,320 Speaker 1: by being more open inclusive and saying, hey, there's people 833 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: here and people there and here we are all together 834 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: doing this together. Um, perhaps conversation can be had. That's 835 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: better than what we've been having. Maybe it can be 836 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 1: actually a community builder versus a community destroyer. Yeah, yeah, 837 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: I would like to see that. Um well, I think 838 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: that's as good a note as any to uh to 839 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: close out on Carl. You wanna you want to throw 840 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: your plug ables up before we we write out of here? Yeah? Sure, 841 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: I mean so I run in range TV. You can 842 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: find me an in range dot TV. Um completely viewer supported. 843 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: Like I said, I don't want to sponsors or anything 844 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: I like. I like the idea of the people liking 845 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: watching it, support it. So if you like it cool, 846 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: come check it out all over the place. YouTube bit 847 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: shoot decentralized video contrat distributions another thing I believe in 848 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: strong would the corporate oligarchy. But yeah, come out. If 849 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: you want to have a little bit different take on 850 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 1: fire and stuff, or you're justted in the confluence of 851 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: civil rights and guns and stuff, come check out in 852 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: Range TV. I'd appreciate I always appreciate new viewers, and 853 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: thanks for checking it out. Awesome all right, um yeah, 854 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 1: check out in Range TV, and uh check us out somewhere. 855 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: We won't tell you where, but you can find us 856 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: if you keep us in your hearts. It Could Happen 857 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 1: Here as a production of cool Zone Media. For more 858 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone 859 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: media dot com or check us out on the I 860 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 861 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,720 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 862 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks 863 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 1: for listening.