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Speaker 1: I'm Royal Oaks. Next time, on Too Many Lawyers, we

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Speaker 1: take on a couple of villains to sort out whether

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Speaker 1: bad stuff is also illegal stuff. George Santos want a

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Speaker 1: seat in Congress by lying to voters, but is that

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Speaker 1: a crime?

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Speaker 2: And Kanye West made it clear he hates Jews.

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Speaker 1: In England, he go to jail for that. Here in America,

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Speaker 1: did he commit a hate crime? Listen to Too Many

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Speaker 1: Lawyers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: The John Nnick and Kenny Florian podcast.

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Speaker 3: Let's go down, John Hannick.

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Speaker 2: Kenny Florian, do you want a podcast? Great, so we

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Speaker 2: have some audio on your website that nobody goes to.

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Speaker 2: You're your hosts, John Annick and Kenny Florian.

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Speaker 4: Get back from Houston, Texas. My daughters have fucking destroyed

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Speaker 4: my office. I mean you should see the piles of

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Speaker 4: crap just in every direction. So apologies on the visuals.

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Speaker 4: We don't have time to talk about that today. Ken

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Speaker 4: flow right, It's Monday, February tenth, twenty twenty is the year.

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Speaker 4: It's episode two thirty six of the Anak and Florian podcast.

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Speaker 4: Not my intention to blow up your Twitter feed last night,

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Speaker 4: Ken Flow, but uh, there are a lot of opinions

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Speaker 4: obviously on John Jones and Dominic Reyes. And if you

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Speaker 4: don't know, John Jones set the record this weekend UFC

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Speaker 4: Championship win number fourteen, which is just absurd whether you

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Speaker 4: thought he won the fight or not, but it goes

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Speaker 4: into the books as that a unanimous decision win for

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Speaker 4: John Jones forty eight forty seven times two forty nine

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Speaker 4: forty six on the dissenting third judges scorecard. I've gone

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Speaker 4: through all the tweets. I've tried to pull out some

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Speaker 4: of the best ones. There are a million different opinions

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Speaker 4: on this, but I guess Ken Flow will just start

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Speaker 4: with the fight and ultimately how you saw it on

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Speaker 4: both sides.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, listen, watching it again, like we talked about before,

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Speaker 5: watching it live, watching the fight, you're not exactly looking

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Speaker 5: at it to score the fight, right, And you know,

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Speaker 5: I thought that Ray's got off to a fantastic start,

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Speaker 5: definitely one round one, with his volume, with his ability

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Speaker 5: to clip Jones, to thwart a lot of the advancements

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Speaker 5: of John Jones as he was coming forward. He was

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Speaker 5: tagging John more than John was tagging him really and

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Speaker 5: you could see this was how the fun was going

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Speaker 5: to play out. Essentially, John Jones pressing forward, trying to

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Speaker 5: make the octagon a little bit smaller, and Ray's really

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Speaker 5: trying to use that lateral movement stick and move. As

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Speaker 5: the fight went on, I thought John found a lot

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Speaker 5: more success a lot of the shots that raised through. Initially,

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Speaker 5: I thought he landed a lot of those strikes. In

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Speaker 5: watching it a second time, put the volume off, just

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Speaker 5: really was just focused on what was landing, what was not.

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Speaker 5: Although Rays was throwing more, he wasn't landing a lot

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Speaker 5: of those shots. If they're skimming off the gloves, if

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Speaker 5: they're skimming off the side of the head, if you're missing.

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Speaker 5: Even though it looks good and it looks like he's

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Speaker 5: chasing down John Jones and he's throwing ten strikes in

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Speaker 5: a row, whatever it is, if he's not landing those shots,

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Speaker 5: you can't count a period. Even though if you hate

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Speaker 5: John Jones, you can't look at it from that perspective

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Speaker 5: the same way that everyone wants to look at the

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Speaker 5: fight the last fight with Connor McGregor and Serroni as

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Speaker 5: if Throny through the fight, Why because everybody or a

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Speaker 5: lot of people don't like Con McGregor and his antics.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't matter who you hate or what happened, it's

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Speaker 5: really what happened during the fight, and raised for me

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Speaker 5: didn't land a lot of the strikes. Now, I initially

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Speaker 5: said that it's entirely possible that John Jones won three

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Speaker 5: to two and that it was insane to have a judge.

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Speaker 4: Say it was four rounds to one.

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Speaker 5: Right, I have to say that it is not insane

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Speaker 5: for that judge to have it four rounds to one.

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Speaker 5: I went back and watched the fight about two and

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Speaker 5: a half times now, and it's possible that John Jones

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Speaker 5: did win that fight four rounds to one. I thought

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Speaker 5: it was three rounds to two, but it's entirely possible

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Speaker 5: that he wanted and that to me is just mind

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Speaker 5: blowing because again I thought there was no way that

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Speaker 5: he won four rounds.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: When you go back and watch it, guys, it can

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Speaker 5: be different. Just watch it with an open mind. Watch

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Speaker 5: it with an open mind.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. And I also need to go back and issue

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Speaker 4: a retraction, I think because I wrote on Instagram last

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Speaker 4: night for the guy who had a four rounds to

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Speaker 4: one dude is blown. And after watching it back, if

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Speaker 4: you saw rounds two and three as both being close

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Speaker 4: but decided to give those rounds for John Jones, he

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Speaker 4: certainly had four and five. So I think when you

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Speaker 4: gain some separation, you gain a little perspective, you tune

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Speaker 4: out some of the noise, you allow some more truth

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Speaker 4: to set in. You brought up the subconscious angle right. Subconsciously,

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Speaker 4: maybe you're not rooting for a guy like John Jones,

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Speaker 4: so you want him to lose. So then when he

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Speaker 4: doesn't lose in a fight that you saw as being

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Speaker 4: very close and competitive, maybe there's some irritation there. Here's

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Speaker 4: what I'll say about the first three rounds, because discussing

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Speaker 4: rounds four and five I think doesn't make a whole

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Speaker 4: lot of sense. Clear John Jones round whether the takedowns

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Speaker 4: were even a part of the factor or not. Most

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Speaker 4: of these rounds, essentially you're judging solely on effective striking

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Speaker 4: because that's where these fights were contested. You don't even

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Speaker 4: need to get to aggression and octagon control if you

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Speaker 4: can determine a winner based upon effective striking. Right round one,

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Speaker 4: Dominic Reyis, I think it was pretty clear right round two,

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Speaker 4: biggest statistical discrepancy. Dominic Reyis outlanded John Jones thirty three

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Speaker 4: to twenty two. Okay, stats don't matter, guys. I hate

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Speaker 4: to break it to everybody out there. Okay, throw out

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Speaker 4: the numbers. They're nice to look at after the fact

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Speaker 4: and maybe can be a piece of your analysis. But

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Speaker 4: when I went back and watched round two, ken flow,

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Speaker 4: I didn't see it as thirty three twenty two Rayis.

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Speaker 4: I saw John Jones defensively masterful. Now I saw that

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Speaker 4: as a ten ten round. I could not determine a winner.

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Speaker 4: I watched round two three straight times for a quarter

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Speaker 4: of a fuck an hour, and I couldn't determine a winner. Right,

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Speaker 4: So I had round one Reyis. Round two I had

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Speaker 4: ten ten. Round three I gave to Dominic Reyis. So

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Speaker 4: I didn't give John Jones any of the first three rounds.

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Speaker 4: But ultimately I had a forty eight to forty eight draw.

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Speaker 4: Your thoughts on rounds two and three and what people

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Speaker 4: might have missed or what people saw over those ten

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Speaker 4: critical minutes of this fight.

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Speaker 5: Right, I think what most people remember is that flurry

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Speaker 5: around four minutes and twelve seconds into round two, and

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Speaker 5: if you look at it. You can watch it in

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Speaker 5: normal speed and then slow it down. I did not

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Speaker 5: slow it down, but watching it in normal speed. To me,

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Speaker 5: raise didn't land any of those any of those strikes

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Speaker 5: in that flurry that it looked like John Jones was

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Speaker 5: backing up. Even the uppercut at the end. Jones kind

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Speaker 5: of blocked with his elbow as he came out. Never

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Speaker 5: got hit with one of those. If anything, maybe he

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Speaker 5: got skimmed with one shot, but none of those shots landed.

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Speaker 5: Rays landed another nice shot later on in the round.

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Speaker 5: But other than that, I think Jones landed more leg kicks,

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Speaker 5: more body strikes. And let's say let's say it's even

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Speaker 5: and we went to octagon control. I would then give

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Speaker 5: it to John Jones winning that round too. I don't

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Speaker 5: have a problem with ten ten. I don't think that's

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Speaker 5: a crazy score at all for that round. So you

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Speaker 5: have an argument there, John, I didn't have it that way.

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Speaker 5: I thought Jones squeezed it out as far as getting

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Speaker 5: the ten nine. But I'm not a big fan of

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Speaker 5: giving out ten ten rounds. So again, I think that

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Speaker 5: you know the way you want to see that round,

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Speaker 5: I would say Jones won that initially I thought Rays

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Speaker 5: won that right going back and seeing that flurry, he just.

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Speaker 4: Didn't land a lot of those shots.

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Speaker 5: Round three, I would say Jones probably squeezed out that

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Speaker 5: one as well.

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Speaker 4: Here's what the rule book says about a ten ten round.

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Speaker 4: A ten ten round in MMA is when both fighters

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Speaker 4: have competed for whatever duration of time in the round,

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Speaker 4: and there is no difference or advantage between either fighter.

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Speaker 4: A ten ten round in MMA should be extremely rare

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Speaker 4: and is not a score to be used as an

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Speaker 4: excuse by a judge that cannot assess the differences in

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Speaker 4: the So you are discouraged language wise from throwing a

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Speaker 4: ten to ten round out there. When I used to

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Speaker 4: cover boxing ken flow, when you're scoring a boxing round,

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Speaker 4: better put your cellular telephone down and be so supremely focused.

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Speaker 4: And certainly in boxing when you have twelve rounds, there's

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Speaker 4: a little bit more of a margin for error if

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Speaker 4: you're doing a ten to nine one way or the other.

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Speaker 4: But at MMA, it is absolutely critical that you tune

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Speaker 4: out the outside noise. I think in terms of change

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Speaker 4: with judges, they certainly should have noise canceling headphones and

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Speaker 4: not be able to hear the crowd you know, they

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Speaker 4: can't hear the commentary, they don't have the benefit of statistics.

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Speaker 4: But there's no reason why they should hear the crowd noise.

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Speaker 4: But these are very difficult rounds to score. And even

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Speaker 4: though I did not give John Jones any of the

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Speaker 4: first three rounds, as you set off the top, you

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Speaker 4: and I can both see an argument for John winning

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Speaker 4: round two and winning round three. And man, is that

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Speaker 4: judge is seat? Thankless? It is?

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Speaker 5: And listen, you know our jobs when we were commentating fights.

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Speaker 5: In your job currently, you know, as you're commentating fights,

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of juggling going on. You're not just

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Speaker 5: you know, calling the action. You gotta give statistics, you

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Speaker 5: gotta you know, give you know, you know, context, promos, advertise,

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Speaker 5: all those things that are coming up. I mean, there's

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Speaker 5: a lot going on, letting you know, Dom and Rogan

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Speaker 5: get in there, all those things. You know, you're not

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Speaker 5: trying to score a car. You're not trying to score

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Speaker 5: a fight. And it's just totally different. Even watching the fight,

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Speaker 5: you know, on Saturday night and watching it now, trying

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Speaker 5: to actually score the fight is a completely different process.

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Speaker 4: Man. So I promised myself that we would spend time

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Speaker 4: on the Rayis performance angle of this, because it's so

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Speaker 4: easy to just go down that scoring rabbit hole and

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Speaker 4: spend the entire show on judging and open scoring, which

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Speaker 4: we'll get to and all of that stuff. But Dominic

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Speaker 4: Gray sat down with us on Thursday, Camflow, he said,

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Speaker 4: I have to move, I have to destroy this man's legs.

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Speaker 4: I can't have my back up against the fence. Cerebrally,

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Speaker 4: he really seemed to know a few things that we're

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Speaker 4: gonna be disastrous for him. I thought he fought a

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Speaker 4: near perfect fight. Obviously, going back and forth with you,

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Speaker 4: you explained to me some of the pitfalls and some

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Speaker 4: of the things you saw from Dominic Reyes's side of things.

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Speaker 4: Largely though, you were very impressed with his performance in

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Speaker 4: this first UFC Championship spot.

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Speaker 5: I was, listen, I don't think there's a lot of

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Speaker 5: people that can do that against someone like a John Jones.

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Speaker 5: I think he really took a page out of Alexander

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Speaker 5: Gustison's you know, blueprint in the first fight.

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Speaker 4: That they had, where he was able to get in

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Speaker 4: get out.

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Speaker 5: He was able to counter John Jones at times when

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Speaker 5: John Jones was stepping hard on the jab. He was

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Speaker 5: able to slip throw that upper cut a few times,

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Speaker 5: which I thought was phenomenal. I think he really did

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Speaker 5: his homework. He did an excellent job defending the takedown.

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Speaker 5: How many guys have been able to stop those takedown

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Speaker 5: attempts from John Jones get back to his feet and

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Speaker 5: be able to separate again. I thought his lateral movement

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Speaker 5: was excellent. His his ability to get in and get

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Speaker 5: out to score. I thought in that force round in

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Speaker 5: that first round was tremendous, you know, And I think

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Speaker 5: he did the right thing coming out hot in that

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Speaker 5: first round against John Jones.

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Speaker 4: John Jones is more of.

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Speaker 5: An analyst, you know, as he fights, he goes out,

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Speaker 5: he's like a computer. He analyzes what you're doing, then

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Speaker 5: he adapts, then he gets better as the fight goes on.

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Speaker 5: I think this is this fight is a great example

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Speaker 5: of that. But I thought Rays did his best to

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Speaker 5: try to win those early rounds and he was very

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Speaker 5: close to doing it. And again, if Ray's got the NOD,

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Speaker 5: I wouldn't have a problem with it either.

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Speaker 4: It was a very close fight.

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Speaker 5: He did a great job of attacking John's body as well,

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Speaker 5: and I think he was a little tense to start

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Speaker 5: the fight. He was a little bit tense, as you

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Speaker 5: would be for a big championship fight against a guy

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Speaker 5: you've never faced before in John Jones, a champion like

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Speaker 5: him who many consider the greatest of all time. But

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Speaker 5: I think when we do see a rematch, and I

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Speaker 5: think it's warranted, I think we're gonna see a more

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Speaker 5: relaxed in an even more confident race.

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Speaker 4: I think so too. One other thing from John Jones, Kenny,

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Speaker 4: he said after the fact, it's hard when people expect

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Speaker 4: great things out of you at all moments. And I

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Speaker 4: do think when somebody engages John in a close round,

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Speaker 4: whether this is the prime version of John Jones or not.

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Speaker 4: And we're going to get into John Jones and why

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Speaker 4: he hasn't maybe been putting guys away with the frequency

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Speaker 4: that we saw early on. You know, this was the

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Speaker 4: seventh decision when for John and his last nine, he

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Speaker 4: hasn't won a performance bonus from the UFC since January

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Speaker 4: of twenty fifteen. Right, it's been five years since John

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Speaker 4: Jones has won a performance bonus. Not to say he

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Speaker 4: has been much less brilliant, but it's hard for John. Right,

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Speaker 4: So when Dominic Reyes is able to go toe to

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Speaker 4: toe with John for rounds one through three. At least

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Speaker 4: I can understand why people are reluctant to give that

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Speaker 4: round to John and why they're quick to praise Dominic,

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Speaker 4: who deserved a lot of that praise, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 5: And you know, that's what makes defending a championship belt,

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Speaker 5: oh damn difficult.

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Speaker 4: You're at the top of the mountain.

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Speaker 5: Everyone's looking at you, and they have the luxury of

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Speaker 5: looking at you for years, you know, and you look

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Speaker 5: at George Saint Pierre, it was the exact same thing.

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Speaker 5: As amazing as he was, there is a period of

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Speaker 5: time where he kept going to decisions. You know, people

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Speaker 5: are everyone's analyzing your game. When you're the champ, all

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Speaker 5: lies are on you, all coaches, all fighters are looking

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Speaker 5: for ways to beat you, which is why it's so

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Speaker 5: important to continue getting better and continue continuing to evolve.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's a very difficult position to be in

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Speaker 5: as a champion, and I thought Rays was pretty damn close.

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Speaker 4: One other line from the score from the scoring book

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Speaker 4: here says if there's any discernible difference between the two

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Speaker 4: fighters during the round, the judge shall not give the

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Speaker 4: score of ten to ten. Again, this score will be

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Speaker 4: extremely rare. Right. So I think if you're a judge

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Speaker 4: and you have that language, that's about as discouraging as

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Speaker 4: it gets. Right. So I'm sitting here telling you I

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Speaker 4: had at forty eight forty eight. But I think if

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Speaker 4: I'm an employed judge, then I do give round two

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Speaker 4: to die Dominic Rays and as such I would have

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Speaker 4: had him up three to nil and there by winning

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Speaker 4: three to two. As far as John Jones's performance is concerned,

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Speaker 4: one thing you texted me is that the creativity doesn't

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Speaker 4: just seem to be there anymore. And even though Mike Winkle,

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Speaker 4: John and Brandon Gibson have done a masterful job with

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Speaker 4: him as far as his technique is concerned, he brought

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Speaker 4: in a new moy Thie coach. He's working on developing

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Speaker 4: a high right kick, which hasn't been a huge part

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Speaker 4: of his arsenal in the past. But you know, Phil

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Speaker 4: Nurse isn't walking through that door anymore. And he was

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Speaker 4: a guy who a lot of people gave credit for

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Speaker 4: injecting this creativity into John Jones's game. We haven't seen

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Speaker 4: I mean, he's still an eight point striker, but we

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Speaker 4: haven't seen the variations and all the different strikes that

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Speaker 4: came to define his UFC. Prime couldn't agree more.

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Speaker 5: John and I think that Phil Nurse was a very

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Speaker 5: creative and exciting coach when it came to delivering certain

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Speaker 5: skills or certain ways of attacking for John Jones. And

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Speaker 5: I think that he has lost that a little bit.

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Speaker 5: You know, if if you look at the potency of

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Speaker 5: his weapons, there is no single weapon that John Jones

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Speaker 5: possesses where you're like, oh man, if he lands this,

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Speaker 5: it's a knockout. That's not what John Jones is about.

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Speaker 5: You have to look at what made John Jones great.

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Speaker 5: What made John Jones great was the fact that he

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Speaker 5: had a variety of skills that he would use at

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Speaker 5: different times that you just weren't ready for. He was

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Speaker 5: creative and you didn't know what he was gonna throw next.

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Speaker 5: That's what makes him a brilliant fighter. It's not this

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Speaker 5: one kick or this one strike. And I also think

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Speaker 5: he's kind of utilizing his weapons in the wrong way

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Speaker 5: at times.

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Speaker 4: I think his spinning kick could be way sharper.

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Speaker 5: It just looked a little off, so he you know,

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Speaker 5: I don't know if it's the time away from the octagon,

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Speaker 5: you know, that's getting him a little bit less sharp,

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Speaker 5: or maybe a coaching style that's leading to a lack

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Speaker 5: of creativity. But right now John Jones is as predictable

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Speaker 5: as he's ever been. It doesn't mean he's not great,

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Speaker 5: because he's still obviously a handful for anyone at two

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Speaker 5: hundred and five pounds.

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Speaker 4: He's still an amazing fighter, but he's losing.

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Speaker 5: Some of that, you know, those star qualities that really

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Speaker 5: made him special, and it really it begins and ends

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Speaker 5: with his creativity.

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Speaker 4: So Donic Rays, as many of you know, and we

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Speaker 4: said this on the broadcast when John Jones was defending

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Speaker 4: his belt against Chail Sun and that April Saturday in

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Speaker 4: twenty thirteen, Dominic Rays was hoping to hear his name

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Speaker 4: called in the NFL draft. And that wasn't all that

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Speaker 4: long ago, right, You're talking about six and a half

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Speaker 4: years ago is when this guy really made his pivot

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Speaker 4: to MMA, and the volcanoos de Mere fight with Dominic

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Speaker 4: Rays was huge. He said, that's the night I truly

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Speaker 4: became a man, right, a fight that many people believe

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Speaker 4: he lost. The Wideman training camp, he went through dealing

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Speaker 4: for a wrestler like that, and all of that learning

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Speaker 4: and developing over those eight or ten weeks, and then

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Speaker 4: this John Jones training camp. I just really feel like

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Speaker 4: the ceiling is championship for this guy. I really think

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Speaker 4: that eventually, if he can continue on this trajectory, that

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Speaker 4: Dominic Rays eventually won't be the uncrowned champion, He'll be

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Speaker 4: the crown champion. I also feel like it's interesting, you know,

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Speaker 4: Joe Stevenson has been his chief corner for a long time.

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Speaker 4: He was nowhere to be found during his fight week,

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Speaker 4: and I do believe Dominic rayis Kenny. He's kind of

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Speaker 4: like his own head coach. He has his brothers, Danny

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Speaker 4: and Jose, who are in his corner, and he you know,

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Speaker 4: I mean, with your brothers, right, there's nobody that you're

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Speaker 4: gonna really have that bond with. And Keith was obviously

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Speaker 4: really your chief corner. I think with respect to Farross

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Speaker 4: and Delagrati and everybody else, but this guy thinks this

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Speaker 4: game twenty four to seven and is a super smart

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Speaker 4: former it guy. I'm very excited for the future for

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Speaker 4: Domras Well, you could tell listen. I think I owe

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Speaker 4: him an apology because I think he was definitely underestimated,

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Speaker 4: not only by me, but I think a lot of

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Speaker 4: other people. This is a guy that has obviously been

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Speaker 4: hiding a lot of skills out there, and for him

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Speaker 4: to do this good against John Jones, I think just

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Speaker 4: shows his potential, his current skill set, and how he

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Speaker 4: continues to develop as.

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Speaker 5: A mixed martial artist. I was very ver impressed by

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Speaker 5: his performance. It's one of the best performances against John

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Speaker 5: Jones that we've seen, probably since Alexandri Gustison. And again,

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Speaker 5: I was just blown away by this guy, and I

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Speaker 5: would not be surprised if he is a future champion

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Speaker 5: at two hundred and five pounds, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 4: Man. And as far as dispelling the notion about the

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Speaker 4: referees not watching the fights, with respect to my man

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Speaker 4: Joe Rogan, I think he was blocked by the turnbuckle

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Speaker 4: and maybe was eyeing a commissioner who was either cheating

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Speaker 4: a monitor or doing something else talking to an individual.

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Speaker 4: But when I look to my left, that judge who

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Speaker 4: was sitting in the judge's seat was absolutely watching the fight.

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Speaker 4: So I know much has been made of that, and

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Speaker 4: maybe Rogan even would disagree, but I saw all the

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Speaker 4: judges were looking at the action the entire time, So

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Speaker 4: I just wanted to dispel that in our opening segment

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Speaker 4: because there is certainly a lot of stuff out there

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Speaker 4: on that all right. Long Ago and I have disagreed

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Speaker 4: on a lot of different things in the past, and

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Speaker 4: I'm very curious to get his thoughts on the judge

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Speaker 4: this forty nine forty six card for John Jones. Now

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Speaker 4: that we have all ingested this fight three or four

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Speaker 4: times to that end, let us get to the Ray

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Speaker 4: long Goo minute.

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Speaker 2: Is now time for the Ray Longo minutes.

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Speaker 4: And I'm going to punch a hole in this fucking shuch.

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Speaker 2: That's what I want, the Ray Longo minute during Ray

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Speaker 2: Longo the John Nick and Kenny Florian podcast.

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Speaker 4: All right, the Great Ray Longo now joins us. So, Ray,

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Speaker 4: you tweeted me, or excuse me, you texted me after

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Speaker 4: the fight between Dobta Grays and John Jones. What a

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Speaker 4: class act on Ray is he won that fight forty

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Speaker 4: nine forty six. Shoot that guy now, I wrote on

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Speaker 4: Instagram yesterday to the judge who had it four rounds

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Speaker 4: to one for John Jones, that dude is blown right.

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Speaker 4: But I have had some time to sort of rethink that,

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Speaker 4: and I just want to pose it to you this way.

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Speaker 4: If you thought rounds two and three were close as

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Speaker 4: I did, and rounds four and five were clearly for

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Speaker 4: John Jones, is it not out of the realm of

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Speaker 4: possibility that one judge saw two, three, four and five

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Speaker 4: all for John Jones.

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Speaker 3: Uh? Yeah, that's totally out of the realm. Totally out

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Speaker 3: of the realm.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so tell us how you saw it.

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Speaker 3: Now, Listen, Kenny, I'm gonna tell you something. Here's the

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Speaker 3: here's the deal. Let's just let's start with a couple

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Speaker 3: of things because I'm totally fucking confused on this. First off, well,

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Speaker 3: regardless of what the rules are of hands down, two hands,

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Speaker 3: one hand, one hand, up your ress, whatever it is,

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Speaker 3: we score on a round to round basis, there is

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Speaker 3: no question in my mind that one through three went

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Speaker 3: to rais. Yes, Jones did great in the championship rounds,

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Speaker 3: but the rounds are already scored and the guy wins

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Speaker 3: the fight. I think it's an easy fight to score.

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Speaker 3: I just listen on John Jones killed well. First off

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Speaker 3: is great fight by John Jones. I don't want I'm

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Speaker 3: not I really became a family. He looked great in

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Speaker 3: the fight. I mean he was forcing you know, he

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Speaker 3: did a great job and walking forward and eat no shots.

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Speaker 3: But he he unequivocally lost rounds one through three and

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Speaker 3: to his own admission, he thinks he won because of

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Speaker 3: the take and there won no takedowns in one through three.

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Speaker 3: So we know you won four and five. But it's

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Speaker 3: a round by round basis. What is what does the

434
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 3: championship rounds have to do with anything? Now? To that

435
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 3: if it was a Pride fight, John Jones on the

436
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 3: quivocally wins that fight because they put a lot of

437
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 3: emphasis on how you finish, we get it. But when

438
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,439
Speaker 3: you're scoring round to round and we know that's the

439
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,400
Speaker 3: way they score, how does he how does Jones win

440
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 3: that fight?

441
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 4: Well, you're absolutely right about the championship rounds. The takedowns

442
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 4: really don't factor in it at all because he wasn't

443
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 4: able to take Dominic Grayis down in rounds one through three.

444
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 4: But I would I would encourage you to go back

445
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 4: and watch rounds two and three because I don't think

446
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 4: they were as one sided as you do now. I

447
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,879
Speaker 4: would also say ray I didn't score one, two or

448
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 4: three for Jones I'm just saying that. Certainly, I wouldn't,

449
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 4: you know, condemn somebody for scoring round two or three

450
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 4: for Jones, because I think there's an argument to be

451
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 4: made that he won those rounds. Yeah, and and Ray

452
00:21:59,240 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 4: I would say this.

453
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 5: You know, I was in the same camp that there

454
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 5: there's it'd be impossible to score the fight for Jones

455
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 5: four to one. But in going back and watching it

456
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 5: today a couple more times, it's not out of the

457
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 5: realm of possibility. It's again, it's it's an interesting thing

458
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,360
Speaker 5: when you watch a fight and and you look at

459
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 5: some of the replays and you look at some of

460
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 5: the score, like a lot of it, like the flurry.

461
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 5: There was a flurry in round two where Rays was

462
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 5: throwing a bunch of shots and John Jones was kind

463
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 5: of whipping his head around and trying.

464
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 3: To get out of it, and it looked bad.

465
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 5: But when you go back and look at the flurry,

466
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 5: he actually didn't lent any of those shots, And I

467
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 5: was like, holy shit, am I you know what I mean.

468
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 4: It's a totally different thing though, And if you're.

469
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 3: Watching with great people, Kenny Jones did a great job

470
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 3: with that. I know he was against the cage. He

471
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 3: did a great job slipping and weaving and everything else.

472
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 3: Did a great job, but he still lost that round.

473
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 3: Round two was kind of closer one to three. I

474
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 3: think a definitive two. I still got to give. Watched

475
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 3: the fight again. I'd love to watch it with you guys,

476
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 3: And why why how we what about the punchtats in

477
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 3: Rayes's face? There's no takedowns. There's no takedowns. The punchts

478
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 3: are in the other guy's favor. What are we looking at?

479
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 4: Ray The stats don't matter though, I don't.

480
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 3: Look, I'm just saying they technically don't matter. But he

481
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 3: definitely landed more point. He definitely outlanded him. I I

482
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 3: just watched it. I mean, I'd love to watch you

483
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 3: with the both of you guys, and and look at it.

484
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 3: But Jones saying he thinks he won because of the takedowns.

485
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 3: There were no takedowns in those rounds, and I think

486
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 3: they were I thought they were pretty clear for Rays. Look,

487
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 3: it's just my opinion, but again, I think, what what where?

488
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 3: The problem is? It was such a good fight, and

489
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 3: Jones did a great job at literally making it seem

490
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 3: like nothing was affecting him and walk them forward that

491
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 3: I think that's where the confusion is because he did

492
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 3: a really really good job at that. But if you're

493
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 3: scoring on points, I really believe that was an easy

494
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 3: fight to score, and I gave it to Rays three

495
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 3: to two.

496
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 5: Ray and John and John. This is for you as well.

497
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 5: Did you see did you guys see the scorecard that

498
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 5: Verdict Mma put up. So the way that they do

499
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 5: their scorecards is interesting. It's it's an argument I think

500
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 5: Rogan was talking about as well, of getting more judges

501
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 5: involved and that way, you know, if there is some

502
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 5: judge that kind of you know, out on left field,

503
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 5: the majority of the judges who score around that basically

504
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 5: gets rounded up, right, So they kind of tabulate all

505
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 5: the scores and based on all of those scores, you know,

506
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 5: they give you know, whatever it is for that round,

507
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 5: and they tabulated at the very end of the fight,

508
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 5: basically getting like point two s or point fours for

509
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 5: certain rounds. They add it all up and they give

510
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 5: you a scorecard. It's interesting Verdict Mma, which is you know,

511
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 5: they do a great job. I think they ended up

512
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 5: scoring it for Jones. It was a small margin, but

513
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 5: it's not a bad way that the way that they

514
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 5: scored that card. I don't know if you guys have

515
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 5: seen it, what you guys think of it?

516
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 4: Think of it?

517
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 3: I mean it sounds it sounds good to me. I

518
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 3: mean it's that definitely sounds good. Uh And I like,

519
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 3: you know, having you know more people that could you know, erase,

520
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 3: like somebody who's not looking at the fight or you know,

521
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 3: whatever's going on or is scaring the crazy. But look,

522
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I really believe this, man,

523
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 3: I believe ninety five percent of the fights are easy

524
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 3: to score up. You know, you just really want good

525
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 3: guys in there for that five percent that are going

526
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 3: to be close. Where you look. The other thing is

527
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 3: and this is what you guys would talk about too.

528
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 3: Can we can we hear what Soulis has to say

529
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 3: about the fight? Maybe if we hear him poork, we

530
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 3: we understand where he's coming from. Where we just say

531
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,719
Speaker 3: when the guy's absolutely insane, but we don't know, so

532
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 3: we we have conjecture and we're trying to come back. Well,

533
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 3: I looked at two and three and there's the part.

534
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 3: Let's hear him talk about it. He's the guy watching

535
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 3: the fight. You know, you guys to commentate, and I'm

536
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 3: in my living room. I might be petting the dog

537
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 3: in between fucking flurries.

538
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:57,719
Speaker 4: I don't know.

539
00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: He's got his eyes on the fight. Let's hear what

540
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 3: he has. But no, no accountability as usual, and these

541
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 3: guys will never ever be held to anything. The only

542
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 3: job in America where you're gonna have to kill somebody

543
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 3: to get fired is with those commissions. It's unbelievable, unbelieva.

544
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 4: It's a great point.

545
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 5: I think that would help clear up a lot of things,

546
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 5: and it would help the fighters know where these judges

547
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 5: are coming from and what they're looking for and all

548
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 5: that stuff. I think it's important and for the fans

549
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 5: to know, you know, what they're doing, maybe some kind

550
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 5: of right up round by round at the end of

551
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,239
Speaker 5: the fight or something that you know, an idea of

552
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 5: what they're looking at.

553
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 3: And I gotta tell you, they don't do it for

554
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 3: a reason. They don't do it for a reason, and

555
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 3: the reason is it's total insanity. That's why they don't

556
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 3: do it. Nobody wants to back those guys up. Then

557
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 3: they gotta Then that guy writes something and then somebody

558
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 3: has to defend them. It's it's a nightmare because they

559
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 3: know they're crazy.

560
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 4: Well, you've been beating that drum to get the judges

561
00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 4: to talk for a while. And I did have a

562
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 4: conversation a few shows ago with two of the judges

563
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 4: that I respect to a great extent, Chris Lee and Saldemato,

564
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 4: and maybe we can get one of them my program

565
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 4: at one point in time. But uh, Ray, I would

566
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 4: defer to you in terms of watching this fight, it

567
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 4: sounds like you and I saw it similarly in terms

568
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 4: of rounds one in three being Rayis rounds. Yet a

569
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 4: lot of people are most upset about round two, that

570
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 4: I thought was actually the closest round in the fight.

571
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 4: But I just want to talk to you about the

572
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 4: scoring because I don't know if Ken Flow, who by

573
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 4: the way, fought for this sports Ultimate Prize on three occasions.

574
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 4: Our scoring system is fucked okay, it doesn't work for

575
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 4: this sport, and certainly I think having more judges would help.

576
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 4: We are going to get into the open scoring thing.

577
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 4: But if you just look at rounds three and four

578
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 4: in this fight, and I hope people will listen to this,

579
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 4: ninety nine percent of people believe that round four was

580
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 4: ten to nine for John Jones. So the score for

581
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 4: round three really can't be ten nine Jones because numerically

582
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 4: it just doesn't add up because round three and round

583
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 4: four were not the same thing. Half points and things

584
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 4: like that are going to result in a lot of draws,

585
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 4: and we don't promotionally need a bunch of ties, But Ray,

586
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 4: our system doesn't allow us to score this sport properly,

587
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 4: at least as it is presently constituted.

588
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I uh yeah, I agree with you, but I

589
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 3: don't think we're ever gonna fix it. Anytime you have

590
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 3: human beings involved. Obviously, John, things could go south, and

591
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 3: that's really the problem.

592
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 4: It's not it.

593
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 3: We could. We could come up with anything, and we'll

594
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 3: find a way to screw it up.

595
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 4: That's my.

596
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 3: And again, I think you got to make these guys

597
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: accountable so they know that they're gonna be accountable and

598
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 3: they're gonna have to talk after the fights, and then

599
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 3: they got to back up this ship more. Look, the

600
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 3: only guy, the only rep would judge that ever to me,

601
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 3: I don't know about only but is her deam. When

602
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: he made that call on Robbie Lawley, you can hear me,

603
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 3: he goes, dude, I'm sorry, I thought you were round.

604
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: That's all we want. He tried to do the right.

605
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 3: He thought he was out. He made a mistake, he apologized.

606
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 3: Why can't nobody else do that? I had guys trying

607
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 3: to convince me. My guys were out. Forget about you.

608
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 3: I thought you were out. They're trying to convince the

609
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 3: guys saying I wasn't out. They're trying to convince the

610
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 3: guy he was out. How do you do that? Heard

611
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 3: Dean at least, what a heartfelt thing, and Robbie gave it.

612
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 3: You're a great rev Things happen, that's it, it's over.

613
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 3: But we can't get anybody to even remotely say, look, man,

614
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 3: I made a mistake. I thought that counted more for that.

615
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 3: I thought this happened something. Give us something to go by.

616
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: We're guessing and then we're coming up with, you know,

617
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 3: all our theories. If you look at three and four,

618
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 3: let's hear what the guy has to say. Maybe he

619
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: changes our minds.

620
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 4: So what about just going back to like a single

621
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 4: round can flow, or allowing the judges to score this

622
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 4: fight on the totality of the fight. Do you think

623
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,479
Speaker 4: that has any merit? I mean, I certainly feel like

624
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 4: if it was one fifteen or twenty five minute round,

625
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 4: it effectively changes the sport. But I don't know. I mean,

626
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 4: is that something that you think makes sense? You know,

627
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 4: another listener chimed in, maybe round five should mean more.

628
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 4: I don't think you can do that. What do you think?

629
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 5: I think that is challenging as well, just because of

630
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 5: the limitations of the human memory and our ability to

631
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 5: kind of you know, that's a tough one as well.

632
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 5: And it's like coming up with you know, everyone's trying

633
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 5: to come up with a rule set for jiu jitsu

634
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 5: that makes sense, that's going to bring action, that's going

635
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 5: to get.

636
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 4: People to fight.

637
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 5: We are creative, adaptable animals, and we will find a

638
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 5: way to always kind of cheat a system or make

639
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 5: it difficult or screw it up altogether because.

640
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 4: Of our humanness.

641
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 5: Because of our humanness, right, So it's such a tricky thing, man,

642
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 5: There's always going to be vulnerabilities with whatever system you pick,

643
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 5: pick one and all come up with a way to

644
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 5: tell you how it's not going.

645
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 4: And that's the thing that's the junk. Can it be better?

646
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 5: I do think there's things we could do to tweak

647
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 5: it and make it a little bit more specific and

648
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 5: easier for fighters and fans to understand.

649
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 4: Is it going to be perfect?

650
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: Hell no, yeah, no it could ever be perfect because

651
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 3: we're not perfect. So that's the way I look at it,

652
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 3: you know.

653
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 4: So there are a lot of downsides to open scoring right.

654
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 4: Some have suggested, oh, the judges are going to get

655
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 4: pelted with beer bottles. The judges shouldn't even be in

656
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 4: the arena, So judges, I do think in terms of change, Ray,

657
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 4: I would disagree with you that we're never going to

658
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 4: get it right. I do think eventually in the not

659
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 4: too distant future, the judges will not be in the arena.

660
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 4: They'll be in a noise canceling set and go ahead

661
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 4: flow one hundred percent. And is that even the best? John?

662
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 5: From your vantage point, which is the same as the judges, essentially,

663
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 5: do you have the best view? What are you looking at?

664
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 5: Are you looking at the cage or are you looking

665
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 5: at the monitor?

666
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 4: Mostly, well, don't tell my boss that I do watch

667
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 4: the cage more than I should. But no, we're supposed

668
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 4: to watch the monitor because that's what's being sent home exactly.

669
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 5: And and it's also the best vantage point. You can

670
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 5: see most of the angles. When you're in the cage,

671
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 5: you can't see if John Jones's huge back has turned

672
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 5: to you. Are you going to see whether he actually

673
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 5: got hit solidly, solidly or not?

674
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 4: Right?

675
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 3: You can't, Kenny, Yeah, Kenny, to your point. When I'm

676
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 3: in the corner, it is times I lose sight of

677
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 3: what's going on. I got to move around and look,

678
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 3: and you know, I can't stay in the same spot

679
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 3: and see everything. That's impossible. So yeah, I get that

680
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 3: that's a good point.

681
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 4: That's all not even the best place to be, you know. Anyways, Ray,

682
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 4: a lot of the fighters who have this open scoring

683
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 4: concept dropped in their lap. I would say, I don't

684
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 4: know if it's a fifty two percent majority, but most

685
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 4: of the fighters that I've heard from are in full

686
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 4: support of open scoring. You'd look at a monitor, look

687
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 4: up at the jumbo tron. You could see exactly where

688
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 4: you stand now. It changes the sport, right, I mean,

689
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 4: this is a huge thing that it hasn't happened because

690
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 4: it changes mma can I mean, would change your training,

691
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 4: have changed the way you All of a sudden emotionally,

692
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 4: you look up, you think you've banked two rounds and

693
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 4: one judge has your down two nil. I mean, Ray,

694
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 4: as a coach of these athletes, do you see the

695
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 4: upside of open scoring?

696
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 3: You know, I think the you know, for me, listen,

697
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: I'd have to really adjust to it because I know, emotionally,

698
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 3: if I think my guy hammered the guy and I

699
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 3: see that he lost the rounds, I'd probably lose my shit.

700
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 3: It would fucking affect the way I'll coach it, yeah,

701
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 3: because I'd be focused on what NI kill whoever put

702
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 3: that score up, you know what I mean? Like that

703
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 3: that would probably bother me. But I think the fighters

704
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 3: are in favor of it, you know, But that would

705
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: create another dynamic. It would be great for you guys

706
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: because me and Sarah would probably go fucking desert, you know,

707
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 3: you know, it would be entertaining. But you know, as

708
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 3: far as h as far as that, man, I don't know.

709
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 3: I think the fighters would like it because they know

710
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 3: where they're at. But man, if you know, just think

711
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 3: about that, you think you just decisively won in your loss,

712
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 3: that could just it could go both ways, could motivate

713
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 3: you to do more, or could deflate like what else

714
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 3: can I do to win?

715
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 4: Right? Can flow? Open scoring would be insanity? You know,

716
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 4: I do think it has its merits. I'm not sure

717
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 4: I'm all in, but I'm certainly closer to yes than no.

718
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 4: As a fighter, how do you feel about I'm kind

719
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 4: of in the camp.

720
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 5: I'd rather know what they're looking at than not know

721
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 5: in some ways, you know what I mean.

722
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 4: I think it would help me.

723
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 5: I would much rather know what the hell's going on

724
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 5: so I can just move forward, you know, and do

725
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 5: what I need to do to win the fight. If

726
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 5: I'm in there and I think I don't know. As

727
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 5: a coach, I would kind of like it as well.

728
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 5: You got to tell the fighter what the hell's going on.

729
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 5: And if you absolutely know what's going on, as frustrating

730
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 5: as it may be, I think you can get a

731
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,919
Speaker 5: lot of your fighters to get out there and win

732
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 5: those rounds that they need to or get that, you know,

733
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 5: at least attempt to try to get that knockout or

734
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 5: submission that they need to win that fight. If they're down,

735
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 5: you know, two rounds and they have three you know,

736
00:34:58,600 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 5: three three in the fight.

737
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 6: And I'm going to ask you guys a question real quick.

738
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 6: If you were to do open judging open scoring, would

739
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 6: the judges be in the building and if so or

740
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 6: if not, would you allow the judges to know what

741
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 6: the other judges scorecards are? Because I feel if one

742
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 6: judge was the dissenting judge throughout a fight, he's gonna

743
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 6: try to make good on that in a close round

744
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 6: later on, so the final score looks a little bit better.

745
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 4: No, it would have to be a clean monitor. They

746
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 4: wouldn't be privy to the other judges' scorecards. They would

747
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 4: have graphics or anything like that. It's a good question, TJ.

748
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 4: And we certainly want to protect all the individuals we

749
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 4: want to We want to protect the fighters too, though,

750
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 4: because ken Field, like when you fought Jose Aldo, you

751
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 4: got off to a great start, but you probably knew

752
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 4: going into the fifth round that you really needed that round.

753
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 4: I guess I fear for the athletes is that all right,

754
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 4: five round championship fight. The fighter B knows he needs

755
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 4: round five or maybe needs a finish, but you either

756
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 4: just don't have the gas or don't want to get

757
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 4: you know, fighter B doesn't go for it in round five,

758
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 4: and then he's roundly criticized for not going for it,

759
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 4: knowing that he needed that round to win the fight.

760
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 4: So there are people to protect and I understand the

761
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,439
Speaker 4: sensitivities to that side of it. Yeah, and you cut.

762
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 5: You generally have an idea of how the fight is going,

763
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 5: but again a lot of times these judges have a

764
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 5: completely different view of how that fight is going.

765
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 4: So oh look, you know.

766
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, let me let me just jump in. I'm

767
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 3: sorry for interrupting this sort but again on that, based

768
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,919
Speaker 3: on that, listen, and I don't I could be wrong

769
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 3: on this, but we don't really see a lot of

770
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 3: times where the corner says you need this round and

771
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 3: they're fucking wrong. That's why you need fighters and people

772
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 3: that know what they're doing, fucking judge in these fights.

773
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 3: It's rare that you see a guy say you need

774
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 3: this round and he doesn't and he's way ahead on

775
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 3: the cards. Yeah, but we do see it where, you know,

776
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 3: it's the other way around with the judges where they're

777
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 3: given round you know, like it's the total opposite of that.

778
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, big picture, a forgettable night for the tech

779
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 4: this Department of Licensing and Regulation. You had that wayward

780
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 4: thirty to twenty seven card for Andre Yule, the round

781
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 4: one scorecard that gave Trevin Giles that round over James Kraus,

782
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 4: who had his back for three and a half minutes

783
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 4: and attempted two submissions. That's one of the worst singular

784
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 4: round scores that I've seen. And yet there are people

785
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 4: that feel like Giles reverse position and pounded him on

786
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 4: the ground, and they sought round one for Giles. So

787
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 4: even though I think that is borderline insanity, there are

788
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 4: people who who disagree with me. All right, Ray, we

789
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 4: got to get you out of here before we do.

790
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 4: It is fight week for one of the toughest men

791
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 4: on this roster, your guy Morob Dwallash Willie fighting Casey Kenny.

792
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 4: This is a huge fight. It's on ESPN Plus this weekend.

793
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 4: Rio Rancho, New Mexico. Are you staying home? Are you going?

794
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 4: And how's Morob doing?

795
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 3: No? Of course I'm going, but I leave Thursday. Are

796
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 3: you are you calling the fight?

797
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 4: I will not be in Rio Rancho. I'm gonna go

798
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 4: watch Jones Reyes thirty more times. I think.

799
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 3: I'd love to watch you with you go we organize

800
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 3: that set up. Uh yeah, I'll be in New Mexico.

801
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 3: Morob's looking good. He's a handful for anybody. We're definitely

802
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 3: taking Casey Kenny very seriously ranked ahead of Marob. He's

803
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 3: number fourteen. You know, I don't worry about Morob because

804
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: he's got a great, you know, outlook on everything, and

805
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 3: he trains his balls off like he always does. My

806
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 3: problem with Morob is getting them out of the gym,

807
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 3: not getting them in the gym. So he had a

808
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 3: great workout last night. His attitude is on point. Everything

809
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 3: looks good, and again we know it's going to be

810
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: a tough fight and we'll see what happens. You know,

811
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 3: I think he's like again, he's a handful for anybody.

812
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 4: This kid. Great fight. It's like the third fight of

813
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 4: the night. But yeah, you got the rank Casey Kenny

814
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 4: taking on the rob and all right, man, well we'll

815
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 4: talk to you next Monday. We'll recap that fight with

816
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 4: you and we'll probably get a little bit deeper on

817
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 4: this Jones race thing, but we got to let you fly,

818
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 4: my man, safe travels.

819
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 3: All right, all right, cool, take it easy, guys, see a.

820
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 4: Right great stuff out of Ray Longo today. You know,

821
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 4: the UFC cuts my check and Kenny, you know that

822
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 4: I really am a fan first, but most fans aren't

823
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 4: going to believe that. And that's okay. But the whole

824
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 4: notion that I'm defending John Jones and I'm some promotional shill.

825
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 4: Can I just remind people that my boss, UFC president

826
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 4: Dana White had it three two rays I had a draw.

827
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 4: I'm really just defending a judge who might have seen

828
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 4: rounds two or three for John Jones. But it's amazing

829
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 4: to be called a shill when my opinion actually differs

830
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 4: from Dana's. Right. It's one thing when I'm supposedly towing

831
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 4: that company line, but still a shill when I go

832
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 4: against the boss, too. Is always great.

833
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 5: They've already made their mind up, so it doesn't matter,

834
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 5: you know, it's it's it's hilarious, man. That's what everyone's

835
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 5: going to point point two anytime you don't agree with them,

836
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 5: And yeah, anyways, that's that's always fun.

837
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 4: I respect all opinions, and we are going to have

838
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 4: to get some picks for this new Mexico show. I

839
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 4: might just have you guys give me these picks for

840
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 4: the record so we can go deeper on Jones and

841
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 4: Rayes and maybe lay some respect at the feet of

842
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 4: the great Valentina Chefchenko. But got to get to it.

843
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 4: It is the main event challenge.

844
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 2: It's the main event challenge.

845
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 4: The time is most definitely nai Fish Fight.

846
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 2: How do you everything possible to win the main event

847
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: challenge to John Nnick and Kenny Florian podcast.

848
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,279
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849
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,640
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850
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853
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854
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855
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856
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857
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859
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860
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862
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Speaker 4: off with free shipping. All right, main event challenged time.

880
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 4: It was a big week for Ian Parker at UFC

881
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 4: two forty seven had John Joe by unanimous decisions, so

882
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 4: you got the round point and the method point there.

883
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 4: You had Chevchenko by submission, but you had the round three,

884
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 4: so even though you didn't get the knockout, an extra

885
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 4: point for you there. And Justin Tafa is betting underdog,

886
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 4: So an eight to three week for Team Annik. It

887
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 4: is nineteen to fourteen as we hit UFC Rio Rancho,

888
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 4: I want to rifle through these picks guys and then

889
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 4: get to the Jones Ray stuff for the rest of

890
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 4: the show and time permitting some stuff on Valentina Chevchenko.

891
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 4: So Diego Sanchez is fighting Michelle Pareeda in the comin

892
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 4: event here in Rio Rancho. Sanchez last fight came in July,

893
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 4: lost to Michael Kisa that ended his two fight winning

894
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 4: streak taken on the veteran Paeda, who was on the

895
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 4: wrong side of that upset against Tristan Connelly back in September.

896
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 4: Ken flow very quickly here on the Koman. Are you

897
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 4: going with your guy, Diego Sanchez or Michelle Paeda.

898
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 5: I hate to go against Diego Sanchez here, but I

899
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 5: think Pareeda is a really tough matchup for him. He's

900
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 5: a pretty solid grappler as well. I think he's going

901
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 5: to look to try to keep this on the feet

902
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 5: and look for a TKO.

903
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 7: Know.

904
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 5: I think Preta's got some big weapons that Sanchoz has

905
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 5: to watch out for on the feed.

906
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 4: I think Pareta wins this one. You got a method

907
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 4: or around for me? Kid? I do. Uh, let's go

908
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:14,760
Speaker 4: with t KO Round three, KO round three for Michelle Preeda,

909
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 4: a minus one sixty betting favorite. By the way, Diego

910
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 4: Sanchez coming back at plus one thirty, Ian Parker, who

911
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 4: do you have?

912
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 7: I'm gonna go for Ajita. I'm gonna go t KO

913
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 7: round one. Uh, this is still the same guy that

914
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 7: knocked out Danny Roberts.

915
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 4: You know.

916
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 7: I think he's gonna learn from that last fight, hopefully

917
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 7: do some less backflips and uh, just more imposing of

918
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 7: as will.

919
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 4: You know?

920
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 7: Diego I think has seen better days. I'm surprised they're

921
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 7: giving him misfight. So I'm going round one t k

922
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 7: O here. We're gonna do a little prices right on

923
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 7: this one.

924
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 4: All right, maybe switch let me switch to a round

925
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 4: two for that? All right? All smart? He's smart? Smart?

926
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 4: All right? Main event? Uh, Ian, we'll have you lead here.

927
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 4: Corey Anderson minus two thirty against Yan Bohova. She was

928
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 4: plus one eighty will we will need the round in

929
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 4: the method, So quick backdrop for you. Many of you

930
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 4: know Corey Anderson has won four in a row. You

931
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 4: may not know that the first meeting with Yan Behovich,

932
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 4: he was just a developing fighter. It was UFC one

933
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 4: ninety one September twenty fifteen, just the fourth fight in

934
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 4: the UFC for Corey and seventh pro fight overall. So

935
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 4: he's a totally different animal. I think the odds reflect that. Obviously,

936
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 4: you can say the same about Behovich, but it was

937
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 4: his twenty third pro fight at the time. But Whovich

938
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 4: has won six of seven two straight. Ian Parker, who

939
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 4: do you have in the main event this weekend?

940
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 7: I really love Corey Anderson in this fight, not because

941
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 7: he knocked out Johnny Walker. I just think Behovich's weakness

942
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 7: is going to be what Corey Anderson is really good at.

943
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 7: The pressure in that cardio, his wrestling game. You know again,

944
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 7: jakaray Bhova should have really dominated that fight with the

945
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 7: size and strength, and he didn't and he started to

946
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 7: fade again. Another charity challenge fight that you were already

947
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 7: like seven Pineapple tequila his deep but you know, in

948
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 7: that fight I just saw as jakaray, you know, pressure

949
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 7: against the cage. I'm sorry that mustache is I can't

950
00:44:58,680 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 7: look at you when I'm talking.

951
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 8: Sorry. I love it, I love it so much.

952
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 7: But you know, I just think this fight with Corey Anderson,

953
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 7: the way he knocked out Johnny Walkers, and to give

954
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 7: him confidence with his hands, which makes us wrestling that

955
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 7: much more of a threat. Candy stopped laughing at me. Please,

956
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 7: it's not helping. So I like Cory Anderson here. I

957
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 7: don't think he's gonna finish Blohovich. I do think it's

958
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 7: gonna be a decision. I think this is the right time,

959
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 7: a great matchup for Corey. He's a cardio machine, and

960
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 7: I think that's what gets it done here, all.

961
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 4: Right, the duck goes with Corey Anderson by decision Ken Flow.

962
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 4: When Dominic Rays performed as well as he did this

963
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 4: league and this past weekend, a lot of people suggested

964
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 4: that the three biggest losers in this equation were Thiago Santos. Right,

965
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,919
Speaker 4: because his performance, you know, against John Jones, as great

966
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 4: as it was, now people feel like Rayess was maybe

967
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 4: even better. So maybe Santos doesn't get that rematch as

968
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 4: soon as people thought, and then these two guys that

969
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 4: we're hoping for something definitive ideally at John Jones finished

970
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 4: to get Rays out of the mix. Now we don't

971
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 4: know exactly what's to take for Anderson or Blahovich, but

972
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 4: winner could still be staring at a title shot. Who

973
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 4: it's it done in Rio Rancho.

974
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 5: You know, I definitely think that Bohovich can win this fight.

975
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 5: I just don't know if he does. I think, you know,

976
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,399
Speaker 5: for a lot of the reasons that Ian already talked about.

977
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 5: I do think that Corey Anderson's ability to pressure land

978
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 5: shots sneakily from the outside, get to a clinch, you know,

979
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 5: utilize that kind of offbeat rhythm. It throws a lot

980
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 5: of people off, and I think it's gonna throw Behovich

981
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 5: off as well. I like Corey Anderson here, let's go

982
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 5: by decision, all right.

983
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 4: So both guys like Corey Anderson and that minus two

984
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 4: thirty range this weekend, all right? So, Ian, we talked

985
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 4: a lot, of course about Jones and Reyes throughout the

986
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 4: last forty five minutes or so. I want to get

987
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 4: your thoughts. How did you see the fight? What are

988
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 4: you laughing at?

989
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 7: Bro?

990
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 4: Everything Okay, I can't hear Ian anymore me neither. Sorry.

991
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 7: I had it on I had it on mute because

992
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 7: I really wanted to process what I was gonna say,

993
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 7: because I know if I fumble my words or say

994
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 7: the wrong thing, get called out very quickly on this show.

995
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 7: So that's why I was already preliminary laughing and being

996
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 7: made fun of for something I'm gonna say.

997
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 4: And now you're giving TJ more ammunition by muting your line.

998
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 4: But I want to know how you saw the Jones

999
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 4: Rayes fight when you watched it in Parkland, Florida, that night,

1000
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 4: and then now having watched it several more times, what

1001
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 4: about your opinion has changed?

1002
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 7: The one that's changed the most I think was really

1003
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 7: that man. The round two and round three is is hard.

1004
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 7: You know, I gave Reyes the most definitive rounds one

1005
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 7: hundred percent was round one, Rays, round four and five

1006
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 7: to Jones, you know, two or three, you.

1007
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 8: Know, I would lean Reyes and one of the other

1008
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 8: ones maybe go draw.

1009
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 4: You know.

1010
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 7: My issue here's there's a lot of things that people

1011
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 7: were saying on social media, was you know, you got

1012
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 7: to perform better to beat the champ. If you're if

1013
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 7: you're the contender, not the champion, And I kind of

1014
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 7: really hope that's not the way it's looked at, because

1015
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 7: that's kind of bullshit, you know, I don't know, I

1016
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 7: know it's not I'm just saying that that's a lot

1017
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 7: of people are saying, well, Jones doesn't have to do

1018
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 7: what has to do because he's a champ, and sometimes

1019
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 7: people feel that it scored that way. You know, I disagree,

1020
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 7: but at the same time, sometimes it does come off

1021
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 7: that way. What I was trying to say on social

1022
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 7: media was I don't think that John Jones won that

1023
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 7: fight four to one at all, no matter how many

1024
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,439
Speaker 7: times I watch. I understand where the arguments come into

1025
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 7: play that he could have snuck in round three or

1026
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 7: round two with you know, the takedowns, whatever it was.

1027
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 7: I just I feel like the most important message here

1028
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 7: is that it could have went either way on the scorecards. Granted,

1029
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 7: the judges were obviously miserable the entire night, whether they

1030
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 7: were watching it, not watching it, whatever it was, this

1031
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:35,760
Speaker 7: rematch has to happen.

1032
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 8: I think this is actually a great.

1033
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 7: Thing for Tiago Santos because it gives him more time

1034
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 7: to heal and he could still get the winner doesn't matter.

1035
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 7: But I was so impressed with what Dominic did in

1036
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 7: those first few rounds. I think what he's gonna learn

1037
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 7: is how to fight rounds four and five against a

1038
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 7: kit like John Jones, because if he's able to really

1039
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 7: hone in and do what he did in those first

1040
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 7: few rounds, he could have had a dominant performance.

1041
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 5: So let me ask you this, If those rounds two

1042
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 5: and three were close, how is it out of the

1043
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 5: realm of possibility that it's a four to one win

1044
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:06,959
Speaker 5: for Jones.

1045
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 8: Because I didn't see that going that way.

1046
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 7: The way I looked at it was honest. I scored

1047
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 7: one of those rounds a draw and one, and I

1048
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 7: think rounds one and two for Rays and four and

1049
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 7: five for Jones. You know, when the scorecards were coming out,

1050
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 7: I thought they were gonna give it a draw. To

1051
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 7: be honest with you, you know, I just I didn't

1052
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,439
Speaker 7: see where if you were to give Jones rounds two

1053
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 7: and three, I just don't see how he won both

1054
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 7: of those rounds.

1055
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 4: You know that, you know, but you're looking at it

1056
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 4: the wrong way.

1057
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 5: You can't look at it like like two and three

1058
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 5: are grouped together.

1059
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 4: Any of those rounds are grouped together. Round starts round five.

1060
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 7: Yeah no, no, no, no, I go You're saying I'm not group

1061
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 7: I'm just saying that my definitive was Ray's one, round one,

1062
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 7: Jones won, four and five, two and three were the

1063
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 7: hardest ones. I'm saying that I was leaning towards Rays

1064
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 7: and one of those rounds, and towards a draw in

1065
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 7: one of those rounds, not Jones winning both of them.

1066
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 7: That's why I was just adding them together as the

1067
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 7: four to one. I'm I'm scoring that. The John's already

1068
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 7: looking at me with that smile. Maybe it's the way

1069
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 7: I'm explaining this. Maybe when I hear myself it's coming

1070
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 7: out differently, But I just felt like the fight was

1071
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 7: so close.

1072
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 8: My point was that if you were going to.

1073
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 7: Do a four to one for Jones, you could easily say, well,

1074
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 7: maybe no, you can't.

1075
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 8: Never mind, you can't go four one Rays at all.

1076
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 7: So I'm sticking with my original thing I told John

1077
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 7: when we spoke offline, was I went one and two Rays,

1078
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 7: round three, draw, four and five Jones.

1079
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 4: In some part, when dominic Rey has heard that forty

1080
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 4: nine forty six score announced, he had to think that

1081
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 4: he had won the fight, but if you think about

1082
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,320
Speaker 4: it deeper, maybe he was like, shit, I didn't because

1083
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 4: I definitely lost the last two rounds. But again, i'd

1084
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 4: encourage everybody if you feel like it's yeh, I don't

1085
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 4: love always the whole rewatching thing. For me as a commentator,

1086
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 4: for my scorecard to have any credibility, I would have

1087
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 4: to rewatch the fight because I'm fucking banging promos and

1088
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 4: everything else. But I would encourage fans to go back

1089
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 4: and watch rounds two and three and let us know

1090
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 4: at Anti Florian Pod how you saw those specific rounds

1091
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 4: and ken flow very quickly. As far as to be

1092
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 4: the champion, you have to beat the champion, Okay, when

1093
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 4: I was scoring boxing prelims back in two thousand and three, Okay,

1094
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 4: when you have much more of a margin for error,

1095
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 4: right with twelve rounds. Even then, you know I'm not

1096
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 4: giving Marco Antonio Barrera the round ten to nine because

1097
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 4: in a close round, because he's the fucking champion, right,

1098
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 4: It's like it's in mean, I think.

1099
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 5: We've been talking about this since we started the podcast,

1100
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 5: how fucking ridiculous that statement is. And you know you

1101
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 5: or to beat beat the champ. You gotta beat the

1102
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:30,879
Speaker 5: champ man, you gotta do it decisively.

1103
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 4: And the no, you gotta win the fucking rounds. That's it.

1104
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 4: You win the rounds. That's what that's about. So yeah,

1105
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:37,359
Speaker 4: it's wait.

1106
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 7: So can well let me ask you a question that

1107
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 7: you know and Kenny, especially for you that you have

1108
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 7: fought these title fights, you know, John Kavanaugh said that

1109
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 7: he admitted that he actually sometimes scores rounds four and

1110
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 7: five heavier. He feels like that in a title fight

1111
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 7: really does help the guys that finish those last two rounds,

1112
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 7: especially if they're more dominant. Do you feel that that

1113
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 7: does happen with judges sometimes, because, to be honest with you,

1114
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 7: the way some of these fights are scored, that that

1115
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 7: kind of looks that way.

1116
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 8: I'm not saying that I believe that.

1117
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 7: But someone as highly regarded as a coach as him,

1118
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 7: for him to say that, it's got to mean something.

1119
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 4: But I don't know what that means. What do you

1120
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 4: mean to score the rounds heavier?

1121
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 8: For example?

1122
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 7: He looks at four and five if they if like

1123
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 7: how Jones was more dominant in four and five, that

1124
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 7: that would he would place it as a more decisive

1125
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 7: victory for Jones in that fight, like he wasn't even

1126
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 7: questioning Jones's win because of how dominant he was in

1127
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 7: those later championship rounds.

1128
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:33,240
Speaker 6: Does Ian Parker know how fights or scored because you don't.

1129
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 4: Stop?

1130
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 6: Hold on, Oh my god, you're you're quackers right now, because.

1131
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 7: If they hied the guy, chill bro it's not me.

1132
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 7: I know other scoring. I asked Kenny a question. I said,

1133
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 7: when he's watching a title fight, Okay, does.

1134
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 4: It do It doesn't. But it doesn't matter. Ian, it

1135
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 4: doesn't matter if it's his opinion.

1136
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 6: You're questioned to Kenny is like asking what color the

1137
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 6: number four.

1138
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 4: It doesn't make sense.

1139
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 2: It's not a real thing.

1140
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,240
Speaker 7: So John Kavanaugh, who is one of the top coaches

1141
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 7: in the mixed martial arts world, his opinion means nothing,

1142
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 7: knows nothing.

1143
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 8: I was just asking if that was as.

1144
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 5: So it's one thing to Okay, there's two things, right,

1145
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,240
Speaker 5: the perception of the fight and then the scoring.

1146
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 4: Of the fight.

1147
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 5: So the overall perception of the fight is such that, Okay,

1148
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 5: if you were a little bit more dominant in rounds

1149
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 5: four and five, that the perception is is that you won.

1150
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 5: The overall totality of the fight. The unfortunate part is

1151
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 5: that that's not how you score fight, you know what

1152
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 5: I mean. So there's the scoring fight, and there's the

1153
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 5: perception of who won the overall fight, Like you could

1154
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 5: kick my ass for or you can outpoint me for

1155
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 5: four rounds and in the fifth round I can like

1156
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 5: completely almost knock you out in the fifth round.

1157
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 4: But guess what, I probably lost the fight. It does

1158
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 4: not matter. Let me guess it should have been a

1159
00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:04,479
Speaker 4: split decision, right I in. Yeah, my man, my man,

1160
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 4: just want to restore order very quickly because I know

1161
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 4: you got to pick up a child here in about

1162
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 4: sixty seconds.

1163
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 8: He can wait, he can wait.

1164
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 4: I just want to know because Ian, you're one of

1165
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 4: the biggest MMA fans that I know. You're a former

1166
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 4: wrestler in terms of this broken MMA scoring system, and

1167
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 4: I think what we're all in agreement on is that

1168
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 4: we need a new scoring system, more judges. I think

1169
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 4: is the first order of business five instead of three.

1170
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 4: But are you a proponent of open scoring or do

1171
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 4: you think there are more problems than solutions? Is so

1172
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 4: associated with that?

1173
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 8: No, I love that concept.

1174
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 7: I absolutely love the concept of open scoring because I

1175
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 7: think then guys will fight differently. I don't think guys

1176
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,439
Speaker 7: well run away, don't think they'll sit back.

1177
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:46,399
Speaker 8: I feel like I'm gonna get made funn by Kenny

1178
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 8: right now. I'm just saying that.

1179
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 7: I think it's different if guys go into any round

1180
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 7: knowing they are down. I also don't think the judges

1181
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 7: should be sitting where they're sitting, you know. I think

1182
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:57,919
Speaker 7: sometimes that plays a part in it too. There's distractions,

1183
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 7: the fans, the cheering, the screaming every time someone kicks

1184
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 7: a block shot, you hear oh from the coaches, and

1185
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 7: if you know, guys not paying attention.

1186
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:07,720
Speaker 8: So I think more.

1187
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 7: Judges, I think the open scoring, and then them being

1188
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 7: in an isolated area, you know, with headphones or however

1189
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 7: you want to do it.

1190
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 8: Otherwise, I don't really know how else to control the situation.

1191
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 7: You know, But from what I heard, these guys also,

1192
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 7: you know, don't have a big MMA fight experience that

1193
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,439
Speaker 7: we're in Texas that were on the commission, So that's

1194
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 7: something too.

1195
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, there are myriad issues, but close fight, I think

1196
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 4: is probably my thesis statement. And I think generally speaking

1197
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 4: that it's always great to see a new champion. You

1198
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 4: can get out of here, and we appreciate your time, buddy.

1199
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 4: We'll talk to you next week.

1200
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 8: Obout that bye, TJ.

1201
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 4: Three plus two is purple.

1202
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 7: I won eight to three this week. That's my role

1203
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 7: in this show. That's all I need to do.

1204
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 4: You kick my ass. I got nothing to say about that.

1205
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 4: So one of the best parts of this job for

1206
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 4: me is seeing somebody breakthrough and become a UFC champion

1207
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 4: for the first time. And a lot of it felt

1208
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 4: at the end of those twenty five minutes that that's

1209
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 4: what we were going to experience, that Dominic rays was

1210
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:06,479
Speaker 4: going to be belted for the first time and become

1211
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 4: a UFC champion. And so I do think when a

1212
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 4: guy does nearly everything right. And of course some people,

1213
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,280
Speaker 4: when you say Rayis did nearly everything right, they'll say, dude,

1214
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 4: he lost the last ten minutes pretty convincingly. He didn't

1215
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 4: do everything right right, And I understand what you're saying.

1216
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 4: But to have this type of performance against the all

1217
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 4: timer John Jones and not get belted, I know, is

1218
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 4: really hard to swallow for Dominic Reyis, But it was

1219
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 4: a close fight to me ken flow and depending on

1220
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 4: how you saw rounds two and three, therein was where

1221
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:34,799
Speaker 4: this fight swung.

1222
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 5: And listen, he may have gained way more fans with

1223
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 5: the lost than he did with the win. In some ways,

1224
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 5: you could argue, I think he's going to get a rematch.

1225
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 5: I do think he'll make a lot of money in

1226
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 5: that rematch if he goes out through and wins. I mean,

1227
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 5: I think that just makes it all that much more impressive.

1228
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 5: And I think we will see a more confident, in

1229
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 5: a more relaxed raise who will make some adjustments to

1230
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 5: make sure that he gets that win. So, you know,

1231
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:03,879
Speaker 5: I think would be very interesting. I do think John

1232
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 5: Jones can make a lot of adaptations, a lot of

1233
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:09,479
Speaker 5: changes to his game as well. And I also think

1234
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 5: that John Jones is the kind of guy who is

1235
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 5: almost impossible to beat.

1236
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 4: In a rematch. He only gets better, he only gets smarter.

1237
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 5: He's got a lot of smart guys around him. You know,

1238
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 5: the Gustison fight was pretty close that first time around,

1239
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 5: what happened the second. That Daniel Cormier fight was pretty

1240
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 5: close the first time around, what happened the second. So

1241
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, this is a guy that definitely

1242
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 5: gets better.

1243
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 4: You know. You know what's amazing is if you go

1244
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 4: back and look at the scorecards for Gustafson Jones one

1245
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 4: two a round identical to these Dominic Rays Johnson scorecards.

1246
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 4: Absolutely incredible. So much on the line, though, and therein

1247
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 4: lies the passion, right, and we appreciate all the fans

1248
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 4: chiming in, and it's just a back and forth, you know.

1249
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 4: I hope people will respect the dissenting opinions. You know,

1250
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 4: that's my only real frustration with all the social media

1251
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 4: back and forth is that certain people don't respect the

1252
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 4: opposite opinion of their own and I think as long

1253
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 4: as you're doing that, then the back and forth is great.

1254
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 4: And that's why this sport is the greatest, because it's

1255
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 4: so unpredictable. And think about how much shit one fight

1256
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 4: gave us to talk about here on a Monday morning.

1257
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 4: I want to get about thirty seconds or sixty from

1258
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 4: you on Valentina Chevchenko before we go, because what else

1259
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 4: can you say about just how great she is, And

1260
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 4: especially for those people that think she beat Amanda Nunez

1261
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 4: in the second meeting in twenty seventeen, you know, this

1262
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 4: woman should have these goat emojis after she fights, and

1263
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 4: they're not there because of Amanda Nunez. Most impressive for me,

1264
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 4: and Rogan alluded to it. Dude, her heels don't hit

1265
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 4: the floor the entire fight. There's no reset whatsoever. I

1266
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 4: was just fixated on her feet. After he said that,

1267
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 4: complete domination. She chews up and spits out Caitlyn Chukegan

1268
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 4: for her third successful Flyway title defense.

1269
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:53,919
Speaker 5: She moves extremely well. She's already She's always ready to move.

1270
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 5: Footwork is the most underrated aspect of fighting period. She

1271
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 5: knows the proper range that she needs to be in.

1272
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 5: That wheel kick was a thing of beauty, one of

1273
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 5: the most beautiful strikes you will see land in the

1274
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 5: UFC period. Chevchenko was on fire on Saturday night and Jakegian,

1275
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 5: to her credit, actually came to fight. She was not

1276
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 5: trying to make a fight of it. She was moving forward,

1277
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 5: something I was really worried about. So she started pressuring.

1278
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 5: And again that's the problem is the more you try

1279
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 5: to pressure a counter striker like a Schevchenko, she will

1280
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 5: make you pay. And man, was she awesome mixing things

1281
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 5: up with their takedown, getting that crucifix position.

1282
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 4: She has to kill her instinct.

1283
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 5: Once she figures you out, you are in big trouble, man.

1284
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 5: And that's what makes Chevchenko was such such a master

1285
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 5: in there such a pleasure to watch.

1286
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 4: So, like, what are you supposed to do? Though? Against her? Right?

1287
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 4: I mean like for Jojo Calderwood and maybe for Macy

1288
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 4: Barber that Roxanne Modafery loss is a blessing in disguise,

1289
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 4: so that she didn't get fast tracked into that part.

1290
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 4: She's not ready for that. Yeah, But for Jojo it's

1291
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 4: like what so, because don't you? I mean, like, so,

1292
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 4: how are you supposed to fight Valentine on the feet? Like,

1293
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 4: what are you supposed to do? Bro? Very carefully?

1294
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:08,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know you're in trouble, man, I mean, there's

1295
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 5: not a whole lot of things you could do. She

1296
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 5: has so much experience now, both as a striker as

1297
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 5: a mixed martial arts fighter. Now she continues to get better.

1298
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 5: She's always traveling around improving.

1299
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:21,919
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1300
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 5: I see her holding onto that belt until she retires. Man,

1301
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 5: she is an absolute problem, beautiful to watch.

1302
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 4: And man, could she be any more classy and gracious?

1303
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 4: She's just the total package human being fighter and couldn't

1304
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 4: be happier for Valentina Shipshank go to realize all of

1305
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 4: the success true martial artists if there ever was one.

1306
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 4: All Right, we got to get out of here. If

1307
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 4: you haven't checked out the new YouTube page, hope you

1308
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 4: will do that. You can now watch and listen to

1309
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 4: this show worldwide, and we promise you too, this show

1310
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 4: is always going to be free, so you don't have

1311
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 4: to worry about that. As long as we're here, this

1312
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 4: thing is never going to be behind a paywall. On

1313
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 4: social media, you can find us at Ana Floorian Pod

1314
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 4: on Twitter, on Instagram. Right back next Monday gets your

1315
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 4: I'm for UFC fight Night Felder versus Hooker coming up

1316
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 4: February twenty second from Auckland, New Zealand. With that again,

1317
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 4: flow Long Goo the Duck, John Annix and so long

1318
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 4: for now. TJ. DeSantis, Thank you, appreciate everybody out there.

1319
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 4: We'll talk to you next Monday. Until then, enjoy the fights,

1320
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 4: don't text and drive yo fucking later.

1321
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 9: Sports betting is sweeping across the country faster than the coronavirus,

1322
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 9: and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Martin and

1323
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 9: I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who

1324
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 9: will help build ESPN's brand. I've been recognized and awarded

1325
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 9: by Pro Football Weekly and gave me Today Magazine as

1326
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 9: the honest handicapper.

1327
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 4: Let the other guys give you.

1328
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 9: The same old, boring sports talk with the same tired storylines.

1329
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 9: We'll give it to you straight here every Friday on

1330
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 9: Wagering Week.

1331
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 4: Don't gimble with other podcasts.

1332
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 9: Let Sports Garden Networks Wagering Week help your bottom line.

1333
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: San Antonio District judge resigns after a federal corruption probe.

1334
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 10: A former San Antonio, Texas judge goes to federal prison

1335
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 10: after pleading guilty to accepting bribes in exchange for rigging

1336
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 10: cases in his court. Angus McGuinty committed the ultimate judicial sin.

1337
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 10: Why did you do it?

1338
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 9: I did it because I was foolish.

1339
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 10: Listen to How to Bribe a Judge on Revolver podcast

1340
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 10: dot Com, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.