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Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for?

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Speaker 1: Go through Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. Hi, guys,

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Speaker 1: joining us now for our weekly partnership segment, we have

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Speaker 1: Julia Rock. She's a reporter for the Lever. Great to

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Speaker 1: see Julia, Thanks so much for having me so. Wednesday

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Speaker 1: night caught my attention. Bernie Sanders had a little spicy

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Speaker 1: quote on the floor of the Senate. He said, recent

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Speaker 1: polls suggest that Congress has a nineteen percent favorability rating,

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Speaker 1: and I find that shocking. Clearly, if that nineteen percent

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Speaker 1: had any inkling as to what goes on here in

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Speaker 1: the Senate, that number would be much lower. You actually

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Speaker 1: have a whole report out detailing what Senator Sanders specific

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Speaker 1: frustrations in this particular moment are, So just break that

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Speaker 1: down for Austulia. Yeah, so last night the Senate was

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Speaker 1: basically going through some motions for provisions to add or

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Speaker 1: propose to be added to the big China Competition bill

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Speaker 1: that has passed both the House and the Senate, and

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Speaker 1: now the two branches need to reconcile a version that

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Speaker 1: they can both get behind. And Bernie made that comment

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Speaker 1: after Senator Maggie Hassan, a Democrat from New Hampshire, proposed

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Speaker 1: a corporate tax break that corporations have been pushing for,

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Speaker 1: pushing to have it included, and basically everything that's past

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Speaker 1: Congress in the past year, which obviously hasn't been very much,

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Speaker 1: they tried to put it and build back better. They

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Speaker 1: tried to get it in the omnibus spending bill, and

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Speaker 1: now they want to have it in this China Competition

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Speaker 1: bill that is basically guaranteed to pass Congress. It's a

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty five billion dollar tax break that

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Speaker 1: allows corporations to write off expenses that they spend on

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Speaker 1: research and development from taxes, and it was it was

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Speaker 1: included in the twenty seventeen massive tax cut bills, so

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Speaker 1: that that was the bill that cut the corporate tax

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Speaker 1: rate from thirty five to twenty one percent. And this

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Speaker 1: was supposed to be like a very sort of small offset, like, okay,

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Speaker 1: corporations are getting this massive tax rate tax break, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna you know, you know, take take back this one

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Speaker 1: subsidy that they've had for a while. But now you

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Speaker 1: know this, the repeal of this tax break is set

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Speaker 1: to go into effect, and they want to make sure

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Speaker 1: that doesn't happen. So the idea is basically this tax break,

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Speaker 1: which really doesn't have anything to do with the broader

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Speaker 1: bill that they're considering, they're trying to get it attacked

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Speaker 1: so that they can go even further than what the

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Speaker 1: Trump tax break actually allowed to do. Because the Trump

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Speaker 1: tax break within all of that rolled back this one

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Speaker 1: little you know, this one little provision to help offset

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Speaker 1: the cost of this massive tax break, And now they're saying, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: even that isn't good enough for us. We want to

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Speaker 1: go back to even having that beneficial provision in the

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Speaker 1: tax code. Yeah. Yeah, and and sort of to your point,

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Speaker 1: this bill, you know, because it's one of the few

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Speaker 1: things that's going to pass and it has bipartisan support,

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Speaker 1: has basically become a vehicle for everything that can't get

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Speaker 1: passed through other means. I will say, you know, you

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Speaker 1: could argue that this tax brick is related to the

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Speaker 1: bill because it is supposed to be for research and development,

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Speaker 1: but it is just a blanket corporate tax break. And

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Speaker 1: so why is it, like what persuaded Democrats to go

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Speaker 1: along with this when they're supposed to be in favor

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Speaker 1: of you know, they're posted to the Trump tax by,

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Speaker 1: they're supposed to in favor of lifting taxes on corporation.

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Speaker 1: So why is it a Democratic senator here who's pushing

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Speaker 1: this amendment? Yeah, I mean that's a good question. You know,

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Speaker 1: this this senator in particular, facing a tough reelection battle.

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Speaker 1: She is, you know, a darling of the US Chamber

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Speaker 1: of Commerce. She voted against a fifteen dollars minimum wage,

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Speaker 1: so you know, maybe this this does really align with

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Speaker 1: her ideology and it shouldn't be surprising. What's more surprising

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Speaker 1: is that there were only five senators, including Sanders and

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Speaker 1: including one Republican who voted against Hassan last night, whereas

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Speaker 1: ninety voted with her. And I think, you know what

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Speaker 1: that shows is just this like really overwhelming willingness to

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Speaker 1: give corporation to tax breaks, you know. And again they

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Speaker 1: say it's going to be for research and development. Maybe so,

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Speaker 1: but these are the same corporations that got a forty

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Speaker 1: percent tax cut under the twenty seventeen tax bill. I

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Speaker 1: think there would be a decent argument about, you know,

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Speaker 1: being able to deduct research and development expenses if you

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Speaker 1: didn't have the overall landscape of corporations paying basically nothing

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Speaker 1: in taxes. That's what makes it galling here is the

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Speaker 1: sort of macro picture. There was another motion that you

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Speaker 1: point to from Senator Sanders last night that was also

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Speaker 1: very frustrating to me, perhaps even more so, and he

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Speaker 1: tried to pass an amendment that would require companies that

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Speaker 1: receive subsidies under this China Competes bill to stay neutral

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Speaker 1: in union campaigns, which by the way, they're supposed to

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Speaker 1: do legally anyway, and refrain from buying back their own stocks.

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Speaker 1: That failed, So the other one passes overwhelmingly. This one

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Speaker 1: fails equally overwhelmingly, with only five Democrats joining Bernie in

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Speaker 1: support of basically saying, hey, if you're a union buster,

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Speaker 1: you don't get these massive subsidies. And also you shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be buying back your own stock, you should be actually investing.

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Speaker 1: That's the whole point of this bill. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, on the one hand, it's totally unbelievable, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, all of these politicians are sort of willing

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Speaker 1: to ride on the wave of union organizing, claim they

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Speaker 1: support it, you know, it's very popular, et cetera, and

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Speaker 1: yet when it comes down to it, will vote against

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Speaker 1: this very simple provision that is oftentimes attached to government

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Speaker 1: money that corporations, you know, can't can't bust bust unions

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Speaker 1: if their workers are trying to organize. We wrote a

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Speaker 1: very similar story actually about a year ago now about

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Speaker 1: Bernie trying to include this very provision, the ban on

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Speaker 1: buybacks and on corporations that receive these substats from busting unions,

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Speaker 1: and he's been basically trying to get it in the

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Speaker 1: bill ever since and has been thwarted by his own party.

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Speaker 1: Yet every turn very very revealing to see what passes

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Speaker 1: easy easily with overwhelming bipartisan consensus and what gets stopped

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Speaker 1: dead in its tracks. Julia, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: breaking it down for us. We really appreciate it. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me kind of a revealing a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a meta analysis going on over at the Washington Post.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put this article up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: How a billionaire's boys club came to dominate the public

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Speaker 1: square again. This being printed in the bezos own Washington Post,

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Speaker 1: and what they write is the world's richest man. Elon

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Speaker 1: Musk attacked a publication owned by the world's third richest man,

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Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos, that would be The Washington Post last month

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Speaker 1: for reprinting a column published by the world's thirteenth richest man,

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Speaker 1: Mike Bloomberg. The Bloomberg opinion article post by The Washington

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Speaker 1: Post asked whether must recent investment in Twitter would endanger

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Speaker 1: freedom of speech. Wappo always good for a laugh, Musk

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Speaker 1: wrote in a tweet with smiling and crying emoji. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's actually like, if you go through what I like

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Speaker 1: about this article is that, first of all, they go

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Speaker 1: after Bezos, who does own the outlet it's being published in,

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Speaker 1: but they also make it clear that you know, the

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Speaker 1: problem isn't just Elon Musk. You have the fact that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the public the modern public square is basically

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Speaker 1: wholly owned by a whole range of billionaires. And I

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Speaker 1: what I what it made me think of is in

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Speaker 1: this way, I actually appreciate the freak out over Elon

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Speaker 1: Musk because it has raised awares, made it more acceptable

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Speaker 1: to say, you know what, maybe billionaires owning a bunch

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Speaker 1: of these major public keystions and owning, you know, digital

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Speaker 1: media spaces and having so much control over our speech,

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Speaker 1: maybe that's not a good thing because finally, for the

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Speaker 1: first time, they have someone who they see as a

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Speaker 1: threat to potentially what they want to say on these platforms,

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Speaker 1: or at the very least, it's a happening. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're not crazy for pointing it out. I cannot tell

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Speaker 1: you how many times people called us conspiracy theorists whenever

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Speaker 1: we would talk about Bezos and Bloomberg during the Democratic right.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that, Yeah, whenever Bloomberg is running. I

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Speaker 1: did all these pieces about Bloomberg News and about how

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Speaker 1: they were stopping their reporters from publishing stuff, and you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody in the press was defending this, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is nuts. You have a guy running for president

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Speaker 1: who owns one of the most influential news outlets in America.

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Speaker 1: If you don't think that's a problem, you're out of

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Speaker 1: your freaking mind. Same thing under Bezos, they would be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's outrageous to bring up the ownership of the Washington Post. Oh,

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Speaker 1: the liberals were losing their mind. Do you remember, Ernie. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I did the slightest thing about it. I was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a real problem when Jeff Bezos owns

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Speaker 1: this paper and also has a ten billion dollar contract

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Speaker 1: with the Pentagon. I mean, I'm just saying, if you

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Speaker 1: think that that isn't tied together, you're an idiot. So

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Speaker 1: I continue to go down the list, and at that time,

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Speaker 1: you know, when it was a billionaire and they're good graces,

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Speaker 1: you act like your nuts, and then oh, all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, oh it's a billionaire owned you know. I

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Speaker 1: love these woke liberals now are like, wait, but Elon

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Speaker 1: could be controlled by China. I'm like, wake up, people,

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Speaker 1: They're all controlled by China. Yeah. Now, look, I've done

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Speaker 1: a whole segment on the show about Elon and China,

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Speaker 1: I think is a serious problem. That being said, don't

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Speaker 1: spare me your crocodile tears, like Bezo who Bezos also

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Speaker 1: China problems on Bloomberg is more beholden to China than

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Speaker 1: any other single billionaire in the top twenty. So it's like,

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Speaker 1: the hypocrisy on this just drives me crazy. But at

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Speaker 1: the very least, at least we'll open up the discussion

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Speaker 1: for let's at least talk about conflict of interests. Okay, right, right, right,

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Speaker 1: because I mean I feel like what we've been saying

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Speaker 1: for a long time is you may be good with

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Speaker 1: it now. You may be okay if you're like an

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Speaker 1: idi logical liberal and you're more or less like, you know,

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Speaker 1: pro whatever the Democratic Party is into, you know, not

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Speaker 1: like a lefty, but you're kind of in that camp,

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Speaker 1: you may be comfortable with Bezos owning the post. He's

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Speaker 1: certainly not on the left broadly, certainly not on the

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Speaker 1: economic left. We all witnessing the union busting that his

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Speaker 1: company links, that his company is going to. But in

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Speaker 1: terms of culturally, in terms of being anti Trump, you're

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Speaker 1: probably gonna feel safe, safe with Beatos. But the whole

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Speaker 1: question is, like put the individual billionaires and their ideologies aside,

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Speaker 1: do you feel comfortable with having a handful of people

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Speaker 1: or one individual person having so much control and being

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Speaker 1: subject to their whims. So this is the first time,

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Speaker 1: really with Elon Musk, that there's been a little bit

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Speaker 1: of an awakening of like among the liberal side of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe this isn't such a great system we have going here.

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Speaker 1: So just like to see that applied consistently. All right, guys,

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Speaker 1: we have a new, extra extraordinarily troubling report on just

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Speaker 1: how often the FBI is searching Americans data without a warrant.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put this report up on the

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Speaker 1: screens from the Wall Street Journal. They say FBI conducted

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Speaker 1: potentially millions of searches of Americans data last year. The

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Speaker 1: report says this was after Congress pushed them to offer

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Speaker 1: at least some transparency about what was going on here.

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Speaker 1: Let me read a little bit of this piece to you.

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Speaker 1: They say the FBI performed potentially millions with searches of

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Speaker 1: American electronic data last year without a warrant. US officials.

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Speaker 1: Intel officials said Friday, a revelation likely to stoke long

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Speaker 1: standing concerns in Congress about government surveillance and privacy g

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Speaker 1: you think. An annual report published Friday with the Office

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Speaker 1: of the DNI disclosed they had conducted as many as

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Speaker 1: three point four million searches of US data that had

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Speaker 1: been previously collected by the NSA. More than half the

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Speaker 1: reported searches, nearly two million, were related to an investigation

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Speaker 1: into a national security threat involving attempts by alleged Russian

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Speaker 1: hackers to break into critical infrastructure in the US. Those

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Speaker 1: searches include efforts to identify and protect potential victims of

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Speaker 1: the alleged Russian campaign. Now, in terms of the legality

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Speaker 1: of this, after September eleventh, Section seven oh two was

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Speaker 1: passed into law, and that basically authorizes collecting of intelligence

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Speaker 1: from an international phone calls and emails about quote, terrorism suspects,

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Speaker 1: cyber threats, and other security risks. And data on Americans

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Speaker 1: is regularly vacuumed up along with those intercepts of foreign communications.

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Speaker 1: So for example, they say when a foreign spy is

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Speaker 1: communicating with some of the US or when two overseas

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Speaker 1: targets are talking about an American. So Congression lawmakers, a

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Speaker 1: few of them at least have been saying Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: how often does this happen and what do you do

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Speaker 1: with this data and how do you search it? Because

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Speaker 1: they argue that doing so amounts to a backdoor search

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Speaker 1: on Americans that dispenses with the requirements to obtain a warrant.

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Speaker 1: Congress last renewed section seven oh two in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Under Trump, it is up for reauthorsation again, So this

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Speaker 1: is extraordinarily timely infos So again, basically, the FBI is

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Speaker 1: using this sort of legal loophole to be able to

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Speaker 1: conduct these searches on Americans without warrants, and it's now

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Speaker 1: a live issue in front of Congress whether they're going

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Speaker 1: to continue to allow this backdoor and potentially it is

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Speaker 1: illegal and unconstitutional violation of americans privacy, right yeah, And

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Speaker 1: actually buried down in the bottom of the report, they

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Speaker 1: say that if there were at least four instances in

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Speaker 1: which the FBI, due to factual consideration, should have sought

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Speaker 1: approval from a fiz A court performing performing a search

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Speaker 1: and looking at the content of communications, and then didn't

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Speaker 1: do that. The FBI has not sought approval from the

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Speaker 1: court since the requirement was adopted in twenty eighteen, so

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Speaker 1: that means for the last four years they've been doing

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Speaker 1: this even though they are required by law in order

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Speaker 1: to go to the court. I also love how they

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Speaker 1: say stuff like this, A search for your phone number,

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Speaker 1: your name, email address, and social Security number does not

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Speaker 1: constitute a search under the definition. Excuse me, your email address,

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Speaker 1: your phone number, and your social I mean, those are

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Speaker 1: three of what the most critical pieces of information about

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Speaker 1: a person under which you could pull credit reports. You

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Speaker 1: can look at all sorts of open source information. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying a lot of that isn't already out there,

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Speaker 1: but that definitely does constitute at least some sort of

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Speaker 1: like personal interest search in terms of the US government

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Speaker 1: looking into that. Yeah, it's just crazy that they can

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Speaker 1: get away with that and not even classify that as

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Speaker 1: a search in a database that they control. Well. In

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Speaker 1: these procedures in this authorization has continued under both democratic

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Speaker 1: and Republican administrations, obviously, and during the Trump administration you

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Speaker 1: had a whole full on conversation about Section seven H

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Speaker 1: two and fis, the cord abuses and unmasking, and all

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Speaker 1: of these terms became very well known on the right.

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Speaker 1: And then they just go ahead and do the same

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Speaker 1: thing and reauthorize the thing again. So at least that

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Speaker 1: pushed some members of Congress a few loan voices to

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Speaker 1: push for some level of transparency, and even within that,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's really interesting when they when you read

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Speaker 1: the report, they phrase it as they conducted as many

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Speaker 1: as three point four million searches. The FBI is like

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Speaker 1: it was probably less. It's like, okay, well, why can't

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Speaker 1: you just actually give us the number and a full

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Speaker 1: picture of what's ultimately going on here. You're right to

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Speaker 1: point out that, you know, they they view this as

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Speaker 1: technically legal, using this sort of legal loophole established by

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Speaker 1: Congress to do backdoor searches without warrants on Americans. They

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Speaker 1: view that as legal. But then they acknowledge as you're

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Speaker 1: pointing out that there was actually blatantly illegal behavior, and

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Speaker 1: everybody's just like, eah, do better next time. I guess

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Speaker 1: they're adopting new compliance. Okay, to who who's watching you?

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Speaker 1: Where's the you're going to be fired over this? Like?

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Speaker 1: What are the details here? How egregious was this? How

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Speaker 1: widespread was it? We don't know, Yeah, don't know. This

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Speaker 1: is what I mean. I mean, it's completely nuts and

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Speaker 1: even then, these new procedures were establish back in January

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty. Okay, it's been like two years, so

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Speaker 1: more than two years since that happened. Are you in compliance?

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Speaker 1: What does the new regular how did the compliance go?

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Speaker 1: Has it been put into place? Is anybody in Congress

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Speaker 1: asking this question? No? I mean the amount of things

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Speaker 1: that these people get away with on a routine basis,

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Speaker 1: And just look at all of them. None of them

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Speaker 1: ever actually get prosecuted. They get these new jobs, some

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Speaker 1: of them at Twitter, even though they're liars. It's just incredible.

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Speaker 1: You know, James Comey's like a freaking multi millionaire based

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Speaker 1: upon his whole episode and probably now works for some

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Speaker 1: contracting company. It's just like that is always how it goes.

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Speaker 1: I just think it's disgusting, especially when you reveal these

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Speaker 1: things so casually. It's just like report says millions searches,

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Speaker 1: and everybody's just like, oh, okay, Well, they're in trusted

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Speaker 1: with so much power, and then they're given just complete

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Speaker 1: leeway and total lack of accountability when they violate the

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Speaker 1: extremely broad rules that have been set for them. So

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Speaker 1: when you have that level of power, you have to

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Speaker 1: be even more precise. You have to be even more

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Speaker 1: They should be even more accountability because yeah, you have

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Speaker 1: access to all of this information, all of this data,

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Speaker 1: all of his money, all of these resources, and you know,

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Speaker 1: at least there's a little bit of transparency here from Congress.

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Speaker 1: I seriously doubt because you know what else they do,

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Speaker 1: and I saw them using this against some I think

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Speaker 1: it's a combination of lefties and Republicans in Congress, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. There's some like overly broad terrorism provision

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Speaker 1: that some members of the squad are saying, hold on,

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Speaker 1: we want to know more about what's going on here,

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Speaker 1: and they use this stuff. They still do it to

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Speaker 1: paint you as like soft on terror, and why don't

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Speaker 1: you want to keep American safe? And this was leaks

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Speaker 1: coming from you know, Democratic College, so it's completely bipartisan.

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Speaker 1: Just watch when this comes up again for reauthorization, all

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Speaker 1: the concerns, you know, during the Trump administration about this,

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Speaker 1: all the concerns that are being raised here. Everyone is

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Speaker 1: going to be too afraid to be painted by the

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Speaker 1: media soft on terror and probably just get reauthorized once

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Speaker 1: again to your detrimental Almost We talked a lot about

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Speaker 1: this new Ministry of truth that Biden administration is trying

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Speaker 1: to create the Disinformation Governance Board and actually, to their credits,

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Speaker 1: C and N press the DHS secretary himself about whether

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Speaker 1: he had any concerns and to explain, like, what the

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Speaker 1: hell does this thing actually do. Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 1: Would you be okay if Donald Trump were president if

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Speaker 1: he created this Disinformation Governance Board or if it is

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Speaker 1: in place and he wins again in twenty twenty four

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Speaker 1: that he's in charge of such a thing. I believe

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Speaker 1: that this working group that gathers together as gathers together

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Speaker 1: best practices, make sure that our work is coordinated consistent

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Speaker 1: with those best practices, that we're safeguarding the right of

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Speaker 1: free speech. That we're safeguarding civil liberties. I think is

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Speaker 1: an extraordinarily important endeavor. Oh okay, I mean it's like

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Speaker 1: a robot wrote that answer, Crystal, We're safeguarded civil liberties.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't be comfortable with. We are safeguarding civil liberties

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Speaker 1: by establishing a Disinformation Governance Board whose job is to

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Speaker 1: determine what's disinformation and what is not. With the woman

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Speaker 1: who is a provable liar and has pushed disinformation herself,

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Speaker 1: not to mention the many lies that Secretary Majorcis has.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Governments lie all the time in a

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Speaker 1: way that's kind of their job. Okay, we basically accept

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Speaker 1: that in America, but we should not have it so

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Speaker 1: that these people can decide what is true or not.

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Speaker 1: Specifically whenever those powers will come entrench into federal bureaucracy

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Speaker 1: and then transferred from one to another, we should not

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Speaker 1: be comfortable in any way for these people in order

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Speaker 1: to tell us what's true and what's not. We need

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Speaker 1: to the full ability in order to debate it. The

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Speaker 1: Mass example of her being wrong on Mass in early

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty is the perfect one. That's why we can't

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Speaker 1: have censorship because by their own logic, that could have

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Speaker 1: cost lies. You know. The thing that also was interesting

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Speaker 1: in this clip that happened prior to that moment that

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Speaker 1: we showed you. She's pressing him just on like, okay,

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Speaker 1: what does it actually do? And he can't really you know,

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Speaker 1: he gives this very jargon laden, buzzword heavy response. And

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Speaker 1: I was reading, you know, pressed by a member of

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Speaker 1: Congress on this all, he what he said the board

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Speaker 1: actually does? Because this is what makes me so uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: Is like, you can't even give an explanation of what

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Speaker 1: this thing actually is in clear length and understandable language,

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Speaker 1: so that he says, the board does not have any

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Speaker 1: operational authority or capability. What it will do is gather

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Speaker 1: together best practices in addressing the threat of disinformation from

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Speaker 1: foreign state adversaries from the cartels, and disseminate those best

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Speaker 1: practices to the operators that have been executing in addressing

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Speaker 1: this threat for years. I mean that's basically like that's

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Speaker 1: just basically like word salad. It doesn't have any specifics

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Speaker 1: about life. I have what you're actually what is this?

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Speaker 1: What are their capabilities? What are they focused on? None

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Speaker 1: of that. I have some insight into this because I

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Speaker 1: know how the defense world works and how it is

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Speaker 1: is they gather experts to create best practices. Then they

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Speaker 1: use those internally in order to have policy and also

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Speaker 1: distribute it externally. So for example, they'll the defense government

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Speaker 1: or the defense industrial complex will create like a best practices,

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Speaker 1: here's our strategy, here the type of weapons we look for,

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Speaker 1: and then they feed that to the government contracts, and

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Speaker 1: the contracts are like, okay, here's the blueprint, and they

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Speaker 1: build off of that, So don't act like it doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to do with that. Well, that's my point is

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Speaker 1: that we know that those best practices are Obviously there

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Speaker 1: are meetings right now between the DHS and the Facebook

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Speaker 1: and Twitter and others about certain types of content policies,

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Speaker 1: which has been exposed through Freedom of Information Act requests

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Speaker 1: showing that, you know, at the requests of the California government,

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Speaker 1: Twitter is taking stuff down or Facebook, Well, that's exactly

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Speaker 1: what's happening here. So they're going to be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: here are our best practices on COVID on this. All

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Speaker 1: it comes is during the election. You know, Okay, look

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Speaker 1: I support mail in ballots. I know a bunch of

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Speaker 1: mag of people think that's heresy. But let's say that

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Speaker 1: they say that criticizing mail in ballots is you know, disinformation. Okay,

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Speaker 1: well now what you know, right slap. Look, I disagree

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Speaker 1: with that. I think you're an idiot if you are

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Speaker 1: against it, but you know, I think you have a

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Speaker 1: right to say it. That's where things become extrad icy,

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Speaker 1: especially under elections, which the DHS election security is directly

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Speaker 1: under their purview. So that's a perfect example. Yeah, very

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Speaker 1: good example. Something I've been talking a lot about here

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Speaker 1: is the phenomenon of barstool conservatism. And I know it

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Speaker 1: can sound a little cringe, but the basic idea behind

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Speaker 1: it is that there are a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: voted for Donald Trump who don't care about traditional socially

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Speaker 1: conservative values so abortion and guns, and probably more likely

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Speaker 1: to be secular. They're mostly men. They're people who are

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Speaker 1: anti political correctness and specifically anti woke. Dave Portnoy and

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Speaker 1: Barstool kind of typifies that exact type. Both the voter

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Speaker 1: and the brand itself is very aligned. So anyway, a

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Speaker 1: lot of this has come up in the context of

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Speaker 1: Roe versus Wade and how exactly that contingent of pro

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Speaker 1: choice Republicans are really just anti woke Republicans previously non

429
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 1: political and now people who are really really animated in

430
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: the new culture war. How are they going to respond

431
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 1: to that. Dave himself actually spoke on his podcast. Let's

432
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 1: take a listen to what he said. If that is

433
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: an issue, I vote Democrat. So it's a great fucking ploy.

434
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: I don't understand, and I thought this in my head too.

435
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 1: It's like, theoretically Republicans are like less government, small government,

436
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: so like, shouldn't Republicans be pro choice because let the person.

437
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: Now I know the argument, Yeah, you don't want the

438
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: federal government making the laws. You want the state. But overall,

439
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: the less government is just let a fucking woman do

440
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: what she wants with her body, keep the government out

441
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 1: of it. That's to me what that is. It's like, yeah,

442
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: you can't ban it. If a woman wants it, great,

443
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: she doesn't want it, great, her choice, No government, less government,

444
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 1: let's government that whatever. It's a crazy thing. It has

445
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: to be said people. I'm sure some people are like,

446
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 1: that's not your thing. They're gonna be mad. It's a

447
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: super sensitive issue. I don't care. Certain issues you have

448
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: to be like, what the fuck are you talking about?

449
00:23:53,040 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: This is one of them. All right, How so, how

450
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 1: is that mac Jones interaction? Great? He's my new best friend. Okay,

451
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 1: we had to keep the last part so funny. By

452
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: the way, shout out Eddie. Eddie listens to the show.

453
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: He's a cool dude. I like Eddie's his co host,

454
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: big fan of d Let's talk about something I'm comfortable

455
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: with it. It's a hilarious. Oh also, and so I

456
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: wanted to check Rogan is another big leader in the

457
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: barstool con type thing. Somebody has been trashing Democrats for

458
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 1: like two years politically correct. All of that opened up

459
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: his latest show with Doug Stanhope. The very first thing

460
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 1: that they talk about, he blasts Row versus Wade. I

461
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: think these are sorry of rovers. Wait, he's like, this

462
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: is crazy, terrible law Texas old once again. But this

463
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: is my point, which is that these two newly culture again.

464
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: He would dispute that he's conservative, and I don't think

465
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: he is, but I do think there's a difference between

466
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: being culturally right wing today and culturally conservative, and I

467
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: would put Portnoy and kind of into that category, whereas

468
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: being culturally conservative is a whole other, more of like

469
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: a nineteen nineties disposition. And so previously Republicans were set

470
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: to win an R plus seven type victory, and my

471
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: friend Ruben Rodriguez on Twitter a great follow by the way,

472
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: I highly encourage you guys to go check him out.

473
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: He said something that I thought was important. He said

474
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: this election was setting up to be a referendum on

475
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: the economy, on COVID, and on political correctness and gender ideology,

476
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: and those three things were going to lead to possibly

477
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: the biggest Republican victory of an entire generation. Now it's

478
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: not going to be that. Now, look, that could change

479
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: how exactly things vote. They probably still win. And look,

480
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily need barstool cons in order to win

481
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: the election. But a huge portion nearly one third of

482
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: the people who voted for Donald Trump in twenty sixteen,

483
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty were themselves pro choice, Crystal well In

484
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: those are not the traditional Republicans think. And this is why, honestly,

485
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: in terms of their national commentary, you have heard Republican

486
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: political figures leaning less into the abortion debate until I mean,

487
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 1: obviously now their hand is forced, but you've heard them

488
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: leaning more into you know, the don't say gay bill,

489
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: more into CRT like, yes, for a reason, this is

490
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: the this is the growth industry within the Republican Party.

491
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: And so the problem with this decision and why they're like,

492
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: let's not talk about that, Let's talk about the leak.

493
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 1: The leak was terrible, right, guys, we hate the leak.

494
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: It was an insurrection, it was literal tarroosts and whatever

495
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:41,719
Speaker 1: is because yeah, there's a segment of their new followers

496
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: and supporters who are not cool with the media, who

497
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: might be who may even not be like fully pro choice.

498
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 1: But again, this the overturning of Roe versus Wade is,

499
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: you know, by the numbers, a fairly extreme position and

500
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: one that puts you on a step even with a

501
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 1: portion of your own base. I mean the part that

502
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: you know, the reason why I definitely don't identify with

503
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: this movement is because you know, economics is core to

504
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: what I care about, and so even though you know,

505
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 1: in certain areas, I'm like anti woke, although it very

506
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: much depends on exactly how you define that, because I'm

507
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: not with some of the insanity around like oh my god,

508
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: gay people are grooming people, or even some of the

509
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: freak out around CRT. But that's just like to me,

510
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: it's a side issue, and the core issue is economics,

511
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: and I don't know what like I think port noois

512
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: like a union buster and like kind of economically conservative.

513
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: So the party, the part I don't understand is really

514
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: putting wokeness as like your key like central issue to

515
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: your politics. That's the part that I don't understand. The

516
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: one thing I will say is I think that because

517
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: that language has been adopted so much by the right,

518
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: and the sort of like anti censorship language also adopted

519
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: by the right, even though, of course we've demonstrated on

520
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: the show a million ways that there's a lot of

521
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: inconsistencies and hypocrisies happening there. It can be very hard

522
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: for traditional political pundits to put people in the right

523
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: ideological categories, like it scrambles their brain, So Rogan scrambles

524
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: their brains, You and I scramble their brains. In third ways,

525
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: I get accused of being like a right winger because

526
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: you know, oftentimes even though like literally issue by issue,

527
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: I am very left on almost everything, because they just

528
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: can't kind of understand the dynamics of what this means

529
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: and what where it places you politically ideologically. So it

530
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: is an interesting dynamic. I guess that's what I'll say. No, definitely,

531
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: And the reason why I think this stuff is important

532
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: is that. And also another ground on which the left

533
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: can now abandon is there's all this birthing people language

534
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: which is out there. And I noticed with Roe it

535
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: disappeared like the drop of a hat. And what really

536
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: showed me this was Gavin Newsome put out a tweet

537
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: yesterday saying if men could get pregnant, this wouldn't even

538
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: be a conversation, and that you know, was missed. It

539
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: was amazing to me because it just showed me that

540
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: they could drop their unpopular and idiotic woke language in

541
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: a second and pivot to the actually popular position of

542
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: protecting what they you know, women's rights or like how

543
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: they say it. And I was and I was like wow,

544
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: because the reason that the right was winning the new

545
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: culture war is because they were like, we need to

546
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: protect women's sports, like we need to protect like actual gender,

547
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: like traditional gender roles, and not let people brainwash our kids.

548
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: That is a very popular position, and it was amazing

549
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: to me that the left could immediately drop a lot

550
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: of that pivot to the extremely popular position of like, hey,

551
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: like women, women are under attack, and they can just

552
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: pivot to this new ground, which again just scrambles the

553
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: entire new way that this conversation was trending. And so

554
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: I think it's important. Look, I'm obviously a supporter of

555
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: trans writes and trans equality, and you know, I have

556
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: issues with what's going on in Florida. Where I have

557
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: problems is because is because there's an instinct on the

558
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: left to obsess over this language and like condemn you

559
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: as like a hateful bigot if you don't use the

560
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: like birthing people language, which you know, I mean, the

561
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: whole goal should be like broadening the coalition, helping bring

562
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: along people who may not be exactly where you are

563
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: to start with. And when you use language that's very

564
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: like niche academic and you know, off putting from the start,

565
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: like latinx is the perfect example of this, you aren't

566
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: doing the work of broadening the coalition, and in fact,

567
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: you're just you know, sort of trying to virtue signal

568
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: and put yourself in your own little niche club that's

569
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: always going to be politically irrelevant. So that's my issue

570
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: with like the woke language. And it also oftentimes gets

571
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: weaponized to cover by corporate forces, to cover like Disney,

572
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: to cover for their actual like economic abuses. So that's

573
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: my issue, which is a little bit different from what

574
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: your issue ultimately is is. But I did note that

575
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: same thing as you, because you know, when I started

576
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: tweeting about Roe being overturned, I was already because I

577
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: just said women, I didn't say birthing people or whatever,

578
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: you know, and how I didn't have like caveats in

579
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: there whatever. I was actually ready to see in my comments,

580
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: like a backlash about my being insensitive or whatever, because

581
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: we had seen Bernie Sanders tweeted something along these lines

582
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: a while back and got all this backlash about like

583
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: he said something about women and women's rights and got

584
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: you know, backlash in the comments about not using the

585
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: right language. So I was kind of ready for that,

586
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: and I didn't see it at all. I'm not done. Yeah,

587
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: So when it really comes down to it, everybody knows

588
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: this it was bullshit. You know. Well, I think it's interesting.

589
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: I think it's just like you said, there was a

590
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: recognition that like, oh, we're let's like, let's not mess

591
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: this one up by using language that puts us out

592
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 1: of step with you know, just a sort of maturitarian

593
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: language and sentiments. So interesting. I think it's an interesting phenomenon. Uh,

594
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, not good for the right in my opinion electorally,

595
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: but we'll see how it plays out with It's interesting

596
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: also to see the way that Dave's talking. Okay, guys,

597
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: some very interesting and rather revealing developments on the Democratic side.

598
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: So of course the Democratic Party and many other people,

599
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: by the way, very upset about the leak draft that

600
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: appears to overturn Roe versus way Wade that's going to

601
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: be imminently decided by the Supreme Court. Literally the day

602
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: after this decision leaks, Jim Clyburn, one of the most

603
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: powerful Democrats in the House and really in the country,

604
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: decides to fly down to Texas to campaign on behalf

605
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: of one of the last anti abortion Democratic lawmakers, Henry Quaar,

606
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: who is facing a very tough primary opponent from the left, Jessicasisnares.

607
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and throw this tweet up on the

608
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: screen from Ryan Graham. He says, Clyburn planning to rally

609
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: with the party's staunchest foe of abortion rights, the Pelosi

610
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: backed Henry Quaar, because this is all a game of

611
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: ego to them. At this point. He was there, There's

612
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: a video of him speaking at a rally, and I

613
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,959
Speaker 1: mean it really just exposes like what a bunch of

614
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: liars they are when it comes to what they actually

615
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: care about. And they're happy to use this language, existential language,

616
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: apocalyptic language, promise that they're the real, you know, supporters

617
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: of women's rights. And yet you have a candidate in

618
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: this race who actually supports those things in Jessica Cisnaros,

619
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: and not only are you not backing her, you are

620
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: actively trying to defeat her. This is a relatively blue

621
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: district too, so it's not like, you know, this is

622
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: really how they could make the argument like, oh, if

623
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: we nominate this lefty person, the district is going to fall.

624
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: The district looks like it's fairly safe for Democrats ultimately,

625
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: so this is all just about making sure they get

626
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: their buddy who's going to take the right vote when

627
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: it comes to who will hold leadership positions. That's all

628
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: they really ultimately care about. Here. Also worth noting this

629
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: is a rematch. Last time around, Cis Narrows came very

630
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: close to winning the Democratic primary. In the runoff, Quaar

631
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: received forty eight point four percent. Cisnaros had forty six

632
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: point nine. Then Quaar won outright in the runoff, defeating

633
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: her by just a couple of percentage points. So it

634
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: was really quite close last time around. We'll see this

635
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: election is just coming up next week. I believe we'll

636
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: see if ultimately the politics of Roe put Jessica over

637
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: the top this time when she wasn't able to get

638
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: it done last time, there's no way to know obviously,

639
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: right as one of the things. Also, Quaar is under

640
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: FBI investigation, by the way, by the way, say there's

641
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 1: no way to know nothing said, Quaar actually is under

642
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: FBI investigation right now. It's I think it's unclear exactly

643
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: why it's what is it a quasi bribery type scandal

644
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: in terms of campaign finance? Anyway, I don't want the

645
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: lawyers to come after me. He is definitely under FBI

646
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: investigation right ahead of the election, which you know, the

647
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: FBI generally does not do that unless it is something

648
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: which is pretty important. As you said. Pelosi put that

649
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: up there on the screen. Affirmed her support for Quaar

650
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 1: after the FBI raid, saying, I support my incumbents life.

651
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: That's what I do. Interesting, yeah, very I mean, like

652
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: I said, the one thing they really care about is

653
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: that he's going to make the right vote in their

654
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: opinion when it comes to who remains Speaker, who remains

655
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: in the top leadership positions. They know that he'll be

656
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,959
Speaker 1: a reliable vote for them when it comes to those

657
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: core interests. So it's quite revealing. The last piece that

658
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: our producer James pulled for us here is just you know,

659
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: this is a heavily majority Latino district and obviously Latinos

660
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: have been moving away from the Democratic Party. There was

661
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: an Ipsos Axios Ipsos poll that basically found that a

662
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: lot of Latino Americans just feel like both of the

663
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: parties completely sort of take them for granted and you know,

664
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: don't really do much to actually understand and deliver for

665
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: them in terms of the issues that they care about,

666
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: which I think is certainly the case and certainly likely

667
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: to be the case in this district as well. So

668
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: we'll see how it all plays out. But again, just

669
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: in case you were wondering how sincere Democrats are on

670
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: these issues, they care more about using the issues for

671
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: votes in power, just like the Republicans. By the way,

672
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,959
Speaker 1: then they do actually delivering, and if you had any

673
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: doubt about that, their desire and willingness to line up

674
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: behind Henry Quayar traveled to his district to rally for

675
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: him before his election literally the day after this leak

676
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: decision comes out tells you everything you need to know. There, go,

677
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: all right, guys, thanks for watching. More for you later. Hey, guys,

678
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: Kyle Kolinski is letting us post some of the clips

679
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: from his channel that we think you guys will really

680
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: love in the Breaking Points community on our channel. Yep,

681
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: let's get to it. So I was genuinely surprised by

682
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: the video that you guys are about to see Dana

683
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: Bash of CNN, who usually I am no fan of

684
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: at all. I think she's very milk toast, conventional wisdom

685
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: spewing machine. But she actually pressed a Biden administration official

686
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 1: over this new thing that they've decided to pursue, which

687
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: is a disinformations are at the Department of Homeland Security.

688
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: Now that's concerning on its own that the government is

689
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: involved in determining what isn't isn't disinformation because of course

690
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: they have their own biases and their own beliefs and

691
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: their own agenda, and they're not objective, they're not neutral,

692
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: they're not balanced. They are effectively operating as the Ministry

693
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: of Truth. Again, it's at the Department Homelandecurity. Now, the

694
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: person who was picked for this position is also incredibly biased,

695
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: and she has her own blind spots. I mean, there

696
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: was She apparently was tweeting about how the Hunter Biden

697
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: laptop thing was Russian disinformation and that it was a

698
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: good thing that it was censored on Twitter and various

699
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: social media outlets. Well, now we know from verification from

700
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: the New York Times including others, that it wasn't Russian disinformation,

701
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: that was really his laptop and those were really the emails. Now,

702
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in all the personal stuff about Hunter Biden.

703
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: I think that goes too far, and he has a

704
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: right to privacy. Nobody should care about a drug use

705
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: or sex habits or what. But certainly the emails involving

706
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: corruption and business interests and his dad, those are fair game.

707
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: And of course the New York Post was banned from

708
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: Twitter because they ran that story leading up to the election.

709
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: I mean, that is inexcuseable. She defended that, she liked that.

710
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: And now this is the person who's the disinformations are

711
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 1: for their department, Homeland Security. So Dana Bash of CNN

712
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 1: is talking to bide administration official here, and she's actually

713
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: going to press him on whether or not this is

714
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 1: a good idea and why should we have it at all.

715
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: Take a look what you are calling your department is

716
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: calling the Disinformation Governance Board. You unveiled that this week.

717
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: Republicans are calling it or well ian and comparing it

718
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: to the Ministry of Truth in the novel nineteen eighty four.

719
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: Can you clarify what exactly is this? What exactly will

720
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: this Disinformation Governance Board do? Will it monitor American citizens? Dan,

721
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: I'm very pleased to do so. It's I mean, those

722
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: criticisms are precisely the opposite of what this small working

723
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: group within the Department of Homeland Security will do. And

724
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,919
Speaker 1: I think we probably could have done a better job

725
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: of communicating what it does and does not do. So

726
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: the fact is that disinformation that creates a threat to

727
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: the security of the homeland is our responsibility to address,

728
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: and this department has been addressing it for years, throughout

729
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: the years of the prior administration and an ongoing basis

730
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: disinformation from Russia China. We know the problems, but it's

731
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: still not clear to me how this Governance Board will act,

732
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: what will it do? So, what it does is it

733
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: works to ensure that the way in which we address threats,

734
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: the connectivity between threats and acts of violence are addressed

735
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 1: without infringing on free speech, protecting civil rights and civil liberties,

736
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: the right of privacy, and the board, this working group,

737
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: internal working group will draw from best practices and communicate

738
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: those best practices to the operators. Because the board does

739
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: not have operational authority, will American citizens be monitored? No

740
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: guarantee that, well, so what we do We in the

741
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: Department of Homeland Security don't monitor American citizens, don't, but

742
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 1: we use board change that. No, no, no, The board

743
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: does not have any operational authority or capability. What it

744
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: will do is gathered together best practices in addressing the

745
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: threat of disinformation from foreign state adversaries, from the cartels,

746
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: and disseminate those best practices to the operators that have

747
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: been executing in addressing this threat for years. Republicans are

748
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: criticizing your decision, the administration's decision to choose Nina Jankowitz

749
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: to lead this disinformation board. They say she is not

750
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: somebody who is neutral. Your response, eminently qualified, a renowned

751
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: expert in the field of inutuation. Absolutely so. Would you

752
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: be okay if Donald Trump were president, if he created

753
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: this Disinformation Governance Board, or if it is in place

754
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: and he wins again in twenty twenty four that he's

755
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: in charge of such a thing. I believe that this

756
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: working group that gathers together gathers together best practices, make

757
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: sure that our work is coordinated consistent with those best practices.

758
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: That we're safeguarding the right of free speech, that we're

759
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: safeguarding civil liberties. I think is an extraordinarily important endeavor.

760
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: All right, So before I go comment for comment here

761
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 1: and break down what he argues, let me just say

762
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 1: that we learned yesterday. Now, to be fair, I have

763
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: no idea if the disinformations are the Department Homeland Security

764
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: is directly connected to what happened in this instance, but

765
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: the timing, of course is suspicious. So soon like a

766
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 1: couple of days after this woman is picked. They're independent

767
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: news websites mint press News and Consortium News that just

768
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 1: had their paypals acted. Their paypals were banned, and in

769
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: one instance, PayPal may even seize the balance of the

770
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 1: money from Consortium News. Now I have no idea where

771
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: mint press News or Consortium News gets their funding from.

772
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: But frankly I don't care, because even if it is

773
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: some sort of like you know, foreign government, there's that's allowed,

774
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: Like you're allowed to have the BBC functions in the US.

775
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: It's being funded by the UK. So is that not allowed?

776
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: Is It only allowed when the government's funding the news

777
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: outlets or so called news outlets in the US are

778
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: ally governments. If it's an enemy government, it's just not allowed.

779
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: I mean there's you know, I forget which government in

780
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: South America funds tell Asur news, but there's a government

781
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: in South America that funds tell us Heer News. And

782
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,479
Speaker 1: that's where Abby Martin for example, either used to work

783
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: or currently works. This is what it means to have

784
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: a free press. Not only is their corporate media. Not

785
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: only is there you know, US funded media like PBS

786
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: or NPR or something like that. There can be foreign

787
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: government funded media. There could be independent funded media like

788
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: you're allowed to have. That be the case. That's not illegal,

789
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: and if anything, you could argue it's actually it's actually

790
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: a good thing because if you understand what it is

791
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: that you're looking at, then you can get different perspectives.

792
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: You know, the idea of like shutting down on cracking

793
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: down on Russian funded news outlets here I don't agree with,

794
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: not because I agree with their analysis on like the

795
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: war in Ukraine, because I want to know the line

796
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: of argument coming from Vladimir Putin and Russia in the

797
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: situation in Ukraine, even if it just ends up ultimately

798
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 1: in many instances being like comedy to me being absurdly biased.

799
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:15,720
Speaker 1: So midpress news and consorting news having their PayPal jacked

800
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: from them, that is not okay. And the other thing

801
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: it shows is, and we've known this because of Facebook,

802
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: We've known this because of Twitter. There really is high

803
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: level coordination between the intelligence agencies and these various outlets

804
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: where they're social media outlets or payment processor outlets that like,

805
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: there are some people at Facebook or Twitter or PayPal

806
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 1: or other outlets that are kind of taking marching orders

807
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: from the US government or having some sort of collaborative

808
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: thing where they agree on the actions that should be

809
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: taken for certain outlets. And look, you got to call

810
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: that what it is, man. That is authoritarianism. That's what

811
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 1: it is. It's to go down that road is incredibly

812
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: dangerous because again, it's not like US intelligence officials and

813
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: the US government are solely interested in the truth. They're

814
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: interested in the perspective of the US government. They're interested

815
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: in their own argument line and their own propaganda. And

816
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: to me, the debate ending point on this front is like,

817
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: you do know that a disinformations are. Assuming they had

818
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: control in the lead up to the Iraq War, they

819
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: would have been banning the point of view that Saddam

820
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: Hussein does not have weapons of mass destruction. Now that's

821
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 1: the correct view, it turns out, but they would have

822
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: banned that why because it didn't jive with what the

823
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,760
Speaker 1: intelligence officials in the US were saying and the argument

824
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: that the government was trying to push. So, like, there's

825
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: no such thing as an actually neutral fact checker, it

826
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: just doesn't exist. Everybody has blind spots. Everybody gets things wrong.

827
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't trust myself in the position to

828
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,320
Speaker 1: determine what is and isn't seen because even though obviously

829
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: I think I'm right most of the time, but there

830
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: could be things I get wrong, and I don't want

831
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: to have the phenomenal power of just pulling down some

832
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: stuff or totally cutting off the funding of an outlet

833
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: and being wrong about it. So it's just it's not

834
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: good man. And we've seen this in a variety of

835
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: different ways. We've seen this manifest in a variety of

836
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: different ways. Chris Hedges had like he had worked for

837
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 1: RT and he ended up having his entire you know,

838
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 1: archive of stuff being pulled down. I think it was

839
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: pulled down from YouTube, and there's stuff, you know, the

840
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: idea of like oh, since he worked for art, it's illegitimate.

841
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: He even criticized the Russian government in a lot of

842
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: the stuff, and it was pulled down. I mean, it's

843
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: just it is just authoritarian. Now, let's go through some

844
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 1: of the arguments that were made here. He says this,

845
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: this working group is there to ensure that the way

846
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: we connect threats are consistent with civil liberties and rights.

847
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. I don't know what

848
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,839
Speaker 1: that means. I don't understand what that point means. Then

849
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: he says he's asked will American citizens be monitored? He

850
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: says no, Okay, I'm reminded of when James Clapper of

851
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: the NSA was asked, are you spying on Americans or

852
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: collecting data on Americans? And his response was no, quote

853
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: not wittingly, And then of course we found out through

854
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: the snod and leaks that was a total lie. They

855
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: were connecting collecting metadata on virtually all Americans. So they

856
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: just you know, you can't trust these people. Now supposed

857
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: to take what they say at face value. Then he

858
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: goes on to say, well, they have no authority or

859
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: capability this group does. Okay, so why do they exist

860
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: if they're not actually doing anything. That's one of the

861
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: points he made. No authority, no capability, Okay, so why

862
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: are they doing it? Well, then they go on to say, oh,

863
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: they pass on the information to the quote operators. Oh, well,

864
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 1: who are the operators? Who are these people? So there

865
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: are people who have the ability and the authority to

866
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: officially crack down on disinformation and pull it from the internet.

867
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 1: Who are those operators? Because then they would be the

868
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: you know, the disinformation's ours, So you can't say, oh,

869
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. They have no authority, they have

870
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 1: no capability. But then they give the information to people

871
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: who do and then they act on it because ultimately

872
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: the game's being given away there. Now you know that

873
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: there are people who crack down on disinformation or so

874
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: called disinformation, I should say, and then they bring it

875
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: up foreign state adversaries or cartels like when they're spreading

876
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 1: stuff that we don't agree with, that's when we take action.

877
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 1: But again, what about when you're wrong? What about when

878
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 1: you guys get stuff wrong. That's not to say the

879
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: intelligence agencies are one hundred percent of the time wrong. No,

880
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: sometimes they get stuff right, but certainly not obvious. It's

881
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: certainly not a given that you know, US intelligence will

882
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: just get stuff right. And I think it really is

883
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: a devastatingly accurate point when Dana Bash says, would you

884
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: be okay if Trump was if this Trump appointed this person,

885
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: And there's not really a good answer there, But I

886
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: can answer the question, of course not. Of course democrats

887
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: and leftists and liberals. If Trump appointed some hack, some

888
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: partisan hack who gets to determine what is in isn't disinformation,

889
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: would I'll be like, Oh, this is a partisan hack,

890
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: this is crazy, this is authoritarian, this is censorship. This

891
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: shouldn't be allowed. There's no such thing as a ministry

892
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: of truth. You know. The difference is, I'm consistent. I

893
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: think it's a hack thing to do and an authoritarian

894
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: thing to do if Biden's appointed the person, or if

895
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,760
Speaker 1: Trump's appointed the person, because again, the government's not supposed

896
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: to be in this business. So I mean, honestly, I

897
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: think there's a case that you this genuinely violates the

898
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: First Amendment, not just the spirit of the First Amendment,

899
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: which is the case with most social media censorship stuff.

900
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: But if the social media outlets or the payment processors

901
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: are banning or censoring at the behest of the US government,

902
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: that might actually be unconstanttional because you're supposed to have

903
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: a free press and free expression, and if the government

904
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: is determining what views are and aren't allowed, that clearly

905
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: violates that. So if there were to be a court

906
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 1: case over this, I think that the disinformations are might

907
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: not even be allowed to operate, might not even be

908
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: allowed to be a thing. But they're talking about it

909
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 1: so casually and openly. Look, the argument I'm making is

910
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 1: not that, you know, disinformation isn't a problem, or misinformation

911
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: isn't a problem. Of course it's a problem, But the

912
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 1: issue here is anything that you would do to try

913
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: to fix that actually creates a bigger problem, because now

914
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: not only are you gonna have disinformation out there and

915
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: misinformation out there, it's always going to exist, but now

916
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: you have the blunt instrument of censorship that's wielded only

917
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: for things that deviate from the establishment perspective, and that's unacceptable.

918
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: I mean, again, the Hunter Biden laptop thing should be

919
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: game set match on this entire conversation anyway, the fact

920
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: that there were some social media outlets that would crack

921
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: down on people who floated, hey, maybe this virus came

922
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: from a lab in Wuhan. That was something in many

923
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 1: instances that wasn't even allowed to be discussed. And then

924
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: you know, as time went vib we realized that's certainly

925
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 1: a possibility. Now I don't know, it's possible came from

926
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,959
Speaker 1: the wet market too, but you should definitely be allowed

927
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: to discuss that. And in the middle of the pandemic.

928
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,720
Speaker 1: As time goes by, you know, the science is evolving,

929
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: We're learning more and more things that we thought were

930
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 1: common sense were and then these other things become common sense.

931
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: To not be able to talk about that or speculate

932
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: about it or give your own educated guesses try to

933
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: connect the dots on your own, I think that's absurd. Now,

934
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: that's absurd. And it also is absurd that there are

935
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: people who are complete snake oil salesmen and conmen and

936
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: frauds and charlatan's who are you know, putting bogus cures

937
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: out there and stuff and have terribly backwards opinion. It's

938
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: not based on the evidence at all. But again, any

939
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: sort of attempt to fix this actually just creates a

940
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: bigger problem because now we have to deal with the

941
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: issue of like walking on eggshells and nobody being able

942
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:12,320
Speaker 1: to actually speak their mind, because what if somebody decides

943
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: I disagree with that, can't even allow it. So I mean, look,

944
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: just the next time there's a run up to war,

945
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 1: remember this because anybody who's countering the narrative, because whenever

946
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: there's a push for war, it's a fever pitch and

947
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: everybody's all in on all the arguments as to why

948
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: the Bady nation is bad. And anybody who comes in

949
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: and tries to temper that and say, hey, here's some

950
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: mitigating facts, here's some nuance. Maybe this isn't as cut

951
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: and dry as as we think. Those could be people

952
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: who get banned because oh, you're you're doing the propaganda

953
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: of quote foreign state adversaries is a bad look man,

954
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: and it is an authoritarian policy. This shouldn't even be

955
00:52:55,800 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: in the conversation. When it comes to regulation of social media,

956
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: the answer is treat them like public utilities, expand First

957
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: Amendment protections. You still absolutely will not be able to

958
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: do direct threats of violence, libel, slander, defamation, targeted harassment, docsing.

959
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: There are very limited rules. You can't post actual crimes

960
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: because they're criminal, so there will be rules, but the

961
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: rules are the basics. You do not censor based on

962
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 1: political viewpoint or even controversial takes, or even things that

963
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: might be considered quote unquote hate speech. If it's not targeted,

964
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 1: you're allowed to do it. The ACLU. The ACLU defended

965
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: neo Nazis and Skokie is it because they agree with

966
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: the neo Nazis and they're racists or bigots or no.

967
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: It was a principal defense that you can't it's a

968
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 1: slippery slope if you take away their free speech rights.

969
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: The next day they're gonna say, these communists aren't allowed

970
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: to march and say what they're in favor of because

971
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. Stalin murdered so many people, and they're

972
00:53:57,680 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: may be some tankies there and they're apologists for Stalin,

973
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 1: so it's like Holocaust denial for these people to march.

974
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: They will always. There's no such thing as a little

975
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: bit of censorship. Once you start, there's no stopping, and

976
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: a zillion things are gonna be censored, and it's gonna

977
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: be people you disagree with and people you agree with.

978
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: So that's what we have to do. That's what the

979
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: answer is. But this conversation is not even happening, even

980
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: among people who claim to care about free speech, even

981
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: among people who claim to not want the censorship, Nobody

982
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: gives the obvious answer, regulate all the big social media

983
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: outlets like their public utilities, and there needs to be

984
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: some sort of bill of rights for the payment processors thing,

985
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: because nobody, I mean, think about it like this. If

986
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: there's a mafia hit and the mafia don calls the

987
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 1: hit man on the phone and says, you know, a

988
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: little Tony's over there on forty second Street and they'll

989
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: be there until five, and then he leaves, so go

990
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: take care of business, if you know what I'm saying,

991
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: And then somebody goes and murders little Tony. Would the

992
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: reaction to that be these people should be allowed to

993
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,359
Speaker 1: use the telephone, ban their ability to use the telephone.

994
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: Nobody would say that, because everybody understands, sort of almost

995
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 1: innately at this point, that there aren't rules like that

996
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: for the phone. It just is. It just exists. It's

997
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 1: not the phone company's fault. That that happened, So you

998
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: need to start thinking about social media outlets like that

999
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 1: and payment processors like that. It's not signing on to

1000
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: disinformation or misinformation or conspiracy theories. To have somebody on

1001
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: social media put out a conspiracy theory or misinformation or disinformation.

1002
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,720
Speaker 1: It's not agreeing with it. To cancel the payment processing

1003
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: for consorting news and mind press news that there, it's

1004
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: not PayPal. If PayPal left them up, that's not them

1005
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 1: saying I agree with what these people say. It's just

1006
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: that's the nature of the payment processor. There shouldn't be

1007
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: a middleman. Do you understand it. It's it's actually a

1008
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: very simple point, but it escapes a lot of people.

1009
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: You can't set up a group of people who are

1010
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: the overlords of information because they have their own problems,

1011
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: their own biases, their own misunderstandings, their own blind spots,

1012
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,800
Speaker 1: and that creates a bigger problem than the current problem.

1013
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that the system is perfect or would

1014
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: be perfect if we regulated them like public utilities and

1015
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 1: at first a member of protections, but it's the least

1016
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 1: bad of all bad options, and it really is in

1017
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 1: spirit the American way and embracing the First Amendment. So

1018
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: is not good Man, not good. Dana Bash did a

1019
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: great job there, but the fact that this thing exists

1020
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 1: is insane. It is not a right wing position to

1021
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 1: say you've got to get rid of this idea of

1022
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: disinformations are. In fact, I would argue it is a

1023
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 1: left wing position. The left wing position on all this stuff,

1024
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: whether it be the payment processors, whether it be the

1025
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 1: social media outlets, the left wing position is expand the

1026
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: First Amendment declare these outlets public utilities and regulated in

1027
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: accordance with the Constitution, And that's it. That's the end

1028
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: of it. Actual crimes are committed, people can be prosecuted.

1029
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 1: If crimes are not committed. It's called freedom, something we're

1030
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 1: supposed to all agree with. So that's the left wing position.

1031
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,359
Speaker 1: What Biden is doing here, Why having a disinformations are

1032
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 1: is arguably a right wing thing, or at the very

1033
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: least it is certainly an authoritarian thing. You could say

1034
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: it's authoritarian left, or you could say it's a right

1035
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: wing position. We don't need to argue over the labels

1036
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: on this point, but you get it. But you get it.

1037
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: It's not a good path to go down and Unfortunately,

1038
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 1: we're going full speed down that path. Hi. I'm Maximilian Alvarez.

1039
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: I'm the editor in chief of the Real News Network

1040
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 1: and host of the podcast Working People, and this is

1041
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: the art of class war on breaking points. Firstly, I

1042
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: want to start by wishing everyone out there a happy

1043
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: belated May Day or International Workers Day, which was on

1044
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: May first, earlier this week and today, in the spirit

1045
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: of May Day, I want to talk to you about

1046
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 1: the workplace as a site of struggle, a place where

1047
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: power and control are often consolidated at the top, but

1048
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: also where power can be collectively challenged and more of

1049
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: it can be transferred to and exerted by those at

1050
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 1: the bottom. And we're going to focus on one particular

1051
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,479
Speaker 1: way that many of us are taught to deal with

1052
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: or resolve this struggle, quitting. I want to start by

1053
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 1: telling you two of the most unremarkable stories you've ever heard.

1054
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: They are unremarkable because I'm positive that all of us

1055
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: have told similar stories at one point or another. Like

1056
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: many of you, I've had a lot of different jobs

1057
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: in the past. I was a pizza delivery guy before

1058
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 1: smartphones existed, back when managers would literally print out directions

1059
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: for deliveries and tape them onto the orders. I've worked

1060
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 1: a bunch of different retail jobs. I've worked at Ros

1061
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: and yogurt shop, and I've taught in college classrooms. I

1062
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: was a waiter in Chicago, and I've been a temp

1063
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: laborer working in different warehouses and factories in southern California,

1064
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 1: some as boring as you can imagine, some as nightmare

1065
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: filled as an Upton Sinclair book. But my first real job,

1066
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: which I basically got the day after I turned sixteen

1067
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 1: thanks to my big brother Zach, was at a small

1068
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: Mexican restaurant chain in Orange County called Pepes, and that

1069
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: must have been around two thousand and two. So the

1070
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,439
Speaker 1: job was basically what you'd expect, exhausting lunch and dinner

1071
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: rushes followed by slow hours filled with cleaning and shooting

1072
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 1: the ship with coworkers, loud cooks, cracking jokes, and Spanish

1073
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: awesome custom burritos that we got to make during our

1074
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: lunch breaks, the absolute worst smelling bathrooms you've ever been in,

1075
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 1: and a drive through monitor that beat so loudly when

1076
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 1: a new car pulled up that it felt like an

1077
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 1: ice pick being jammed into the base of your skull,

1078
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: and one day that beep finally got to me. Honestly,

1079
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:13,919
Speaker 1: I had only been at Pepez for a few months

1080
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 1: and it was fine. You know. I didn't love it,

1081
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: but I loved the food and it was a paycheck.

1082
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: But the manager I worked with was most of the

1083
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 1: time a real piece of shit pardon my French. And

1084
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 1: one day he got drunk with the head cook in

1085
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 1: the back and they basically both passed out in the

1086
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 1: walk in fridge. Then the lunch rush came and it

1087
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: was just me that awful drive through Beep and a

1088
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:43,439
Speaker 1: new cook who only spoke Spanish and had been there

1089
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 1: for about one week. Now, I've been through much worse

1090
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: in my life since then, but at the time this

1091
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 1: felt like some straight up BS that I just really

1092
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 1: didn't want to put up with. Again, I was still

1093
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 1: fairly new. I didn't have any sway with the owner

1094
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: to do anything about the manager, so I quietly put

1095
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: in my two weeks and I quit, and I found

1096
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: a seasonal job at the mall. See I told you

1097
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 1: unremarkable Now. The other unremarkably common experience I had was

1098
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 1: standing on the hard, hot concrete floor of a boiling

1099
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 1: warehouse after a twelve or thirteen hour shift, drenched in sweat,

1100
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: panting alongside fifteen to twenty other panting bodies of various ages,

1101
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 1: listening to the steely plodding of the floor manager's boots

1102
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: as she walked up the line, pointing at the people

1103
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: she wanted to come back for more work the next day,

1104
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 1: people who all had families to support and lives to

1105
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 1: live outside of that hot box. I remember those moments.

1106
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: I remember saying the names of products that we shipped

1107
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 1: on repeat under my breath, just to keep my brain

1108
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 1: busy until the manager got to me, and I knew

1109
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:04,439
Speaker 1: if I still had a paycheck coming. This was in

1110
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:08,439
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, just over ten years ago, in the wake

1111
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: of the Great Recession. Now every single person standing on

1112
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: that concrete warehouse floor knew how much we all needed

1113
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: the jobs, however shitty they were, and everyone had their

1114
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 1: own mix of reasons. Financial necessity obviously that was the

1115
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 1: main one, but it could be to pay off student loans,

1116
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 1: or to pay a mortgage, car payments, children's school expenses, etc. Etc.

1117
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: And some had to hold onto the jobs for dear

1118
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 1: life because their paroles depended on it. Either way, there

1119
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 1: was no real sense of freedom In that situation, I

1120
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 1: had no choice but to be there. I had no

1121
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 1: choice but to take our manager's crap. I couldn't find

1122
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 1: any better options. A few of us could, and management

1123
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: knew that they knew like we all did, that every

1124
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: morning there would be a huddled mass of faceless silhouettes

1125
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 1: standing in the dark parking lot outside at four in

1126
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 1: the morning, waiting to see if someone didn't show up

1127
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 1: for their shift. These are just small, unremarkable snapshots of

1128
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 1: two completely mundane moments in my working life. My first

1129
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 1: time quitting a job, which just so happened to be

1130
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 1: my first job, gave me a very specific impression of

1131
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: my power and agency as an individual worker. This was

1132
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: before Wall Street and a whole mess of greedy people

1133
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: crashed the economy. This was when I was still living

1134
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 1: at home and didn't have extra expenses like rent and childcare.

1135
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 1: This was a time in my life when it felt

1136
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 1: true that I had the ability to protest bad pay

1137
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 1: or working conditions by refusing to subject myself to them

1138
01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 1: and leaving. And that helped my young conservative conviction that

1139
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 1: the system was working as it should and that this

1140
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: was me acting accordingly in it the situation at the

1141
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 1: warehouse was entirely different. I had no real agency there.

1142
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: I needed the money, and this was the only job

1143
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 1: I could get. At that point, three years after the

1144
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: financial crash, I had begun to see how that system

1145
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: I once had so much faith in was doing everything

1146
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: it could to protect the wealthy and the powerful while

1147
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: tossing working people overboard left and right. Every night, after work,

1148
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 1: sitting in a living room full of so many memories,

1149
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: in a house that we would soon lose for good,

1150
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: my folks and I would sink deeper into a depressive

1151
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: abyss as we heard talking heads and partisan hacks sing

1152
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 1: triumphantly about an economic recovery that seemed to be just

1153
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 1: passing us by. Like so many others, we felt stuck, trapped, helpless.

1154
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 1: But here's my point. Whether I was a cashier at

1155
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: Pepe's at a time when the economy still felt like

1156
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 1: it was working and social mobility still seemed like a

1157
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 1: real possibility, or whether I was working as a warehouse

1158
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: temp at a time when the world itself seemed to

1159
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:27,640
Speaker 1: have broken apart and we were all just hanging on

1160
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 1: for dear life. At neither point, and at almost no

1161
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 1: other point in my life. Did I think there was

1162
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 1: a third option besides quit and brave the elements, or

1163
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 1: don't quit, stay and take the crap. At no real

1164
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 1: point did I or my co workers think seriously about

1165
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 1: staying and doing something together to fix the problems that

1166
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: we faced at work. Now that's not to say, of course,

1167
01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 1: that there weren't beautiful, tender, life saving moments of camaraderie

1168
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: and solidarity. Moments when a senior worker would stick up

1169
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 1: for me. Moments when servers and cooks and bus boys

1170
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 1: formed an unspoken pact to never leave women on staff

1171
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 1: alone with certain managers. Moments when we actually enjoyed our

1172
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: work together, covered in sweapt listening to music, stacking and

1173
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: loading palettes, and feeling like we accomplished something and that

1174
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 1: we were worth a damn At many of the jobs

1175
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 1: I've had, coworkers commiserated and laughed together. We hung out

1176
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 1: and learned about each other's lives, and we built bonds

1177
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 1: together that held outside of work. But we never organized,

1178
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: and we never thought about organizing, And when people would quit,

1179
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 1: it was almost always a hushed affair. At best. We'd

1180
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 1: have a little sendoff ceremony in the break room on

1181
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 1: their last day, and you know, if they quit over

1182
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: problems at work, we just quietly nodded our heads, understanding

1183
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 1: full well why they couldn't take it anymore, while accepting

1184
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 1: that the problems themselves would go unacknowledged and would remain unchanged.

1185
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:20,520
Speaker 1: There was no moment of reckoning or self reflection from management.

1186
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 1: Departing employees were either quickly forgotten or remembered only as disgruntled,

1187
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 1: dysfunctional troublemakers. Over the past year, however, something has changed

1188
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 1: with the phenomenon that we've come to know as the

1189
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 1: Great Resignation Record. Numbers of people have been voluntarily quitting

1190
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: their jobs, reaching a height of four point five million

1191
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 1: people quitting in November of twenty twenty one alone, the

1192
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 1: highest number since the Bureau of Labor Statistics started tracking

1193
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 1: that data. Last year, we saw a ghoulish chorus of

1194
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 1: business owners, Chamber of Commerce puppets, and corporate serving politicians

1195
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 1: plastered on every major news network, berating working people back

1196
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 1: into pre pandemic subservience by calling us lazy and entitled,

1197
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: making baseless claim after baseless claim about how no one

1198
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: wants to work anymore, and then using those baseless claims

1199
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:25,839
Speaker 1: to justify ending vital COVID relief programs instead of asking

1200
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: themselves why so many people were increasingly unwilling to take

1201
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:34,960
Speaker 1: low paying, dead end, unsafe, or over exhausting jobs where

1202
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:39,839
Speaker 1: they were treated as disposable. But historic numbers of workers

1203
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 1: standing up for themselves forced their hand and changed the narrative,

1204
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 1: including workers like Beth McGrath, a Walmart employee whose viral

1205
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 1: resignation video was covered on Breaking Points a while back.

1206
01:08:53,280 --> 01:09:17,520
Speaker 1: Take a listen, all right, attention Walmart shoppers and associates.

1207
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: My name is Beth from Electronics. I've been working at

1208
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: Walmart for almost five years, and I can say that

1209
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:26,519
Speaker 1: everyone here is overworked and underpaid. The attendant policy is

1210
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 1: we are treated from management and customers poorly every day.

1211
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 1: Whenever we have a problem with it, we're told that

1212
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 1: we're replaceable. I'm tired of the constant gaslight and this

1213
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:42,799
Speaker 1: company treats their elderly associates like manage it and this job.

1214
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 1: I quit now. Notice McGrath's deep breathing before she makes

1215
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 1: her announcement. I could feel that I could feel her

1216
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:57,560
Speaker 1: breathing in my own chest. I've felt that same trepidation

1217
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:01,760
Speaker 1: and fear dreamed of doing what people like her have

1218
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:06,200
Speaker 1: done over the past year, but I never did. There's

1219
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 1: no one reason why so many people have been taking

1220
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:13,439
Speaker 1: that step to quit their jobs, and those reasons vary

1221
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 1: depending on the person and the job. But the fact

1222
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 1: that so many have taken that step, and the fact

1223
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:24,520
Speaker 1: that brave people like Beth have refused to go quietly,

1224
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:28,479
Speaker 1: has meant that employers haven't gotten to exercise the power

1225
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:32,720
Speaker 1: they typically have to control the terms and determine the

1226
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 1: learned or unlearned lessons of their employees' departures. Even if

1227
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:41,320
Speaker 1: these record numbers of quits weren't part of some coordinated

1228
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:45,679
Speaker 1: collective action, the fact that they have happened en mass

1229
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: and gotten so much attention has meant that the balance

1230
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:52,720
Speaker 1: of power has shifted ever so slightly. And it's that

1231
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:56,599
Speaker 1: cumulative mass effect that has forced many employers to actually

1232
01:10:56,640 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 1: look inward. Raise wages improves safety conditions and work flexibility,

1233
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 1: and make better offers to potential hires. And that is significant,

1234
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:16,879
Speaker 1: But the gains are also unevenly distributed, insecure, and always

1235
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 1: at risk of rollbacks. I mean, inflation has already outpaced

1236
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:26,120
Speaker 1: the average wage growth from last year. For instance, from

1237
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:31,840
Speaker 1: companies unilaterally ripping their pandemic hero pay bumps away from

1238
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 1: workers to corporate pirates and landlords gleefully jacking up prices

1239
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:39,760
Speaker 1: on all of us. We've seen how ruthlessly the order

1240
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:43,679
Speaker 1: giving class will always try to steal back any moderate

1241
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 1: gains that working people make. And I don't say this

1242
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 1: to minimize the truly historic importance of the Great Resignation

1243
01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:56,640
Speaker 1: and the sea change it represents in people's basic relationship

1244
01:11:56,760 --> 01:12:00,479
Speaker 1: to work and in their very own sense of self worth.

1245
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 1: I am deeply proud of anyone who has ever had

1246
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,240
Speaker 1: the bravery to say I am worth more than this,

1247
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: because you are. No matter what the system, your boss are, politicians,

1248
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:18,720
Speaker 1: or certain toxic bootlocking people in your life may tell

1249
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 1: you we are worth more, We deserve more, and we

1250
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: need to fight for more. What I'm saying is that

1251
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: there are limits to what quitting can do for us

1252
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 1: in that fight. Ultimately, it is every individual's decision to make.

1253
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 1: There is no one size fits all solution here, and

1254
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:44,520
Speaker 1: I want to be very clear that sometimes the absolute

1255
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 1: best and safest and healthiest thing to do is quit

1256
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,200
Speaker 1: your job. And the fact that so many people have

1257
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:56,360
Speaker 1: been looking out for themselves believing that they deserve better

1258
01:12:56,920 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 1: and taking that leap to prove it is mind blowing

1259
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 1: and I think an extremely positive thing. But what is

1260
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:08,680
Speaker 1: also mind blowing is that there are a lot of

1261
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 1: working people in this country who also felt that way

1262
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: and still feel that way, who also believe that they

1263
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 1: deserve better, and who are proving it by staying where

1264
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 1: they are and fighting for a better and more humane

1265
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 1: work life. For example, I was up on Staten Island

1266
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 1: for the Real News two weeks ago to cover the

1267
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 1: Amazon Labor union rally, which was held before a second

1268
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 1: and ultimately unsuccessful union election at the LDJ five sorting Center,

1269
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 1: which is in the same Amazon complex as the JFK

1270
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:49,040
Speaker 1: eight fulfillment center that successfully voted to unionize last month. Now,

1271
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 1: since I got back from Staten Island, a lot of

1272
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:55,719
Speaker 1: people have been asking me to convey what the workers

1273
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: there are doing and why they're doing it. Well, this

1274
01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 1: is pretty much it in a nutshell, you know. My message,

1275
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:06,600
Speaker 1: as always is don't listen to me, listen to the

1276
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 1: workers themselves, and this is what workers have been repeatedly saying.

1277
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 1: We actually published a compilation of on the ground interviews

1278
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: and speeches from the rally on my podcast Working People.

1279
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 1: So I'm going to play a clip for you from

1280
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 1: that episode from my interview with Michelle Valentine Nieves, a

1281
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:29,640
Speaker 1: worker organizer with the Amazon Labor Union who works at

1282
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 1: the JFK eight warehouse that made history by successfully unionizing

1283
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:38,600
Speaker 1: last month. Initially, there was none, you know, there was

1284
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:43,680
Speaker 1: no conversation, and then things started picking up in the

1285
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:48,200
Speaker 1: direction of organizing when we lost our former manager and

1286
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:51,600
Speaker 1: I think we were in limbo for about four months,

1287
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:55,599
Speaker 1: and even then there was overseeing managers we saw maybe

1288
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:59,160
Speaker 1: twice a week, if even that. We had an overseeing

1289
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:02,879
Speaker 1: asm for a bit as well, but no store manager

1290
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 1: and all these things that we wanted to change, and

1291
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:11,439
Speaker 1: it was passing comments. I want to say, in between

1292
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:15,280
Speaker 1: transitioning between morning to midshift, you had partners coming in

1293
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:19,559
Speaker 1: wondering like, why isn't this getting done? Why are so

1294
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: many people calling out? Why do I only have two

1295
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:28,759
Speaker 1: people for the afternoon rush and having nobody to console remember,

1296
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:31,720
Speaker 1: just like lower your boys, like you're going to get

1297
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 1: us in trouble. But it was within that same day

1298
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,000
Speaker 1: I was like, if you're serious, text me after work

1299
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 1: and I'll let you know because I'm down, and I

1300
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 1: think in like a record time, I want to say,

1301
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 1: two or three days, more than seventy percent of our

1302
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:52,000
Speaker 1: store was already hanging out after work talking about the

1303
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:54,640
Speaker 1: things we want to see change, and we really just

1304
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 1: were leaning on one another for once in you know, months,

1305
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 1: And I really think it was that domino effect of

1306
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 1: losing a manager who genuinely cared so much about us

1307
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 1: and who was drived out for the very same reason

1308
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 1: that we were driven to organize, not being accommodated for

1309
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:17,720
Speaker 1: not being considered being overlooked and almost bullied and so

1310
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:22,559
Speaker 1: and were there like at the so like at the time,

1311
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 1: was at the Buffalo store unionized at this point? Oh yeah,

1312
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:30,200
Speaker 1: when I tell you it was fast, it was fast.

1313
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 1: When did our surfile? It was April? Was it? It

1314
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:39,040
Speaker 1: was like two weeks ago on a Thursday. You know,

1315
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 1: I was so struck hearing Michelle and other Amazon workers

1316
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 1: describe how they took that sense of helpless individual desperation

1317
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:54,560
Speaker 1: and you know, through hard work and worker to worker organizing,

1318
01:16:54,600 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: through countless conversations, turned that into collective power and collective

1319
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:04,760
Speaker 1: commitment to stay and fight all of the things that

1320
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:07,759
Speaker 1: we know about Amazon and how it treats its workers

1321
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:14,600
Speaker 1: apply here. Backbreaking high speed, heavily surveiled work in massive warehouses,

1322
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:20,600
Speaker 1: undemocratic top down decisions that directly affect workers' health, safety,

1323
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:27,720
Speaker 1: and livelihoods, union busting consultants, captive audience meetings, workers berated

1324
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 1: by anti union propaganda left and right, retaliation, and even

1325
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:37,840
Speaker 1: arrests of organizers. But one thing that's important to note is,

1326
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like workers' jobs are Hell on

1327
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 1: Earth every hour of every single day. There are parts

1328
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:47,599
Speaker 1: of their jobs that they like. There are reasons it's

1329
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 1: better for them, are more preferable to work there than

1330
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:55,559
Speaker 1: to work somewhere else. Many couldn't easily leave, and many

1331
01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:59,480
Speaker 1: didn't want to. And it was clear that Jeff Bezos,

1332
01:17:59,880 --> 01:18:04,920
Speaker 1: Amazon HR or anyone in elective office wasn't going to

1333
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:07,640
Speaker 1: answer workers cries for help out of the goodness of

1334
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 1: their own hearts. So workers took it upon themselves to

1335
01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 1: do something about it. And you know, this is the

1336
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:17,879
Speaker 1: same thing that's been happening with Starbucks workers around the country.

1337
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 1: When I got to interview workers at the North Charles

1338
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:24,880
Speaker 1: store in Baltimore, who also made history by becoming the

1339
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 1: first unionized Starbucks in Maryland last week in a clean

1340
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:30,920
Speaker 1: sweep election. They told me that a lot of the

1341
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:34,120
Speaker 1: workers there were trands like them, and it was a

1342
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:38,160
Speaker 1: special place in that way, and they also for those reasons,

1343
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:42,479
Speaker 1: really needed the healthcare benefits and so they didn't want

1344
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:46,880
Speaker 1: to leave. What is truly amazing, I think is that

1345
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:49,760
Speaker 1: they are doing what I and I imagine many of

1346
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:54,760
Speaker 1: you have never really thought about doing, banding together and

1347
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 1: exerting power to make this place where we spend so

1348
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:02,160
Speaker 1: much of our life because we have to work, a

1349
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:05,799
Speaker 1: better place to work. For many of us, that seems

1350
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 1: like an impossible task. But if you look at Starbucks

1351
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 1: workers and what they are doing right now, you see

1352
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:16,800
Speaker 1: how possible it really is. Just watch this clip of

1353
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:20,759
Speaker 1: my Real News interview with Ariana Ayala, a Starbucks partner

1354
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 1: in New York City and a member of her store's

1355
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 1: organizing committee, where she describes how quickly things got moving

1356
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: once she and her co workers started talking openly about

1357
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:36,360
Speaker 1: doing something to improve their situation at work. The second year,

1358
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:39,679
Speaker 1: I did art ship, which is that's the twelve hour shift.

1359
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 1: So I did that. That's Thursday, Friday, Saturday, twelve hourship.

1360
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:48,559
Speaker 1: I did that for a whole year, and like once

1361
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:50,679
Speaker 1: I did it, I'd say like maybe eight to nine months,

1362
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:55,040
Speaker 1: it started like affecting my health at my energy levels

1363
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:57,720
Speaker 1: and the way I was behaving at home, Like I

1364
01:19:57,800 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 1: was like snappy at home. I was always in a

1365
01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:02,760
Speaker 1: that mood. It put like a lot of stress on

1366
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 1: like my relationship and my relationship with my family and

1367
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 1: my kids. And it was just like wow, after that

1368
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 1: second year of doing RT, I was like, Okay, I

1369
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:14,800
Speaker 1: had to change something because during this twelve hours it

1370
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 1: was just like pounding on my body physically and mentally.

1371
01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:21,720
Speaker 1: It was just like a lot. Then I also there

1372
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:25,280
Speaker 1: was a pandemic. Yeah, exactly. Does not forget the pandemic.

1373
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 1: That's another thing that was just like that was much.

1374
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 1: That was like pretty much the stick that broke the

1375
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 1: horse's back, like when the pandemic came out and everyone

1376
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 1: has to work twice as hard and no one was

1377
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 1: giving a break. People were coming out with COVID left

1378
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 1: and right. Some people came back to work, some people didn't.

1379
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:46,080
Speaker 1: There's people that we don't even know if if they

1380
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:48,639
Speaker 1: passed away, if they recovered, we don't even know because

1381
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:52,880
Speaker 1: Amazon keeps everything a secret. So it was just a

1382
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 1: lot it was like all of those things combined. But

1383
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:58,759
Speaker 1: for the union itself, I think the pandemic was really

1384
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:01,960
Speaker 1: what pushed it to the point where they were like, Okay,

1385
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:04,720
Speaker 1: we have to do this, like we have no other choice, right,

1386
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:07,080
Speaker 1: Like it got people so desperate to the point where

1387
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:08,719
Speaker 1: we were like, Okay, we're going to do this because

1388
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:11,719
Speaker 1: there's only like at this point, there's only like twenty

1389
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:14,639
Speaker 1: of us. But it started out with like maybe four people.

1390
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 1: Originally it was like maybe four or five people. So

1391
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:20,760
Speaker 1: it has you have to like really be pushed to

1392
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:24,080
Speaker 1: the point where Okay, I'm desperate. I'm desperate for change,

1393
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:25,720
Speaker 1: and this is what we're gonna have to do with

1394
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:27,640
Speaker 1: That's it. We're just gonna do it. We're going to

1395
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 1: keep at it until something changes or something happens. Talking

1396
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:35,840
Speaker 1: to workers like Ariana, I often find myself thinking back

1397
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:39,720
Speaker 1: to so many times at so many different jobs when

1398
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:43,439
Speaker 1: I heard some version of that same refrain. If you

1399
01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 1: don't like it, why don't you just leave? Now, we've

1400
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 1: all heard this phrase before. Sometimes it's posed as a

1401
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:57,960
Speaker 1: genuine question, sometimes as a suggestion. Other Times it's snarled

1402
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 1: as an insult that you're really not expect to respond to,

1403
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:03,920
Speaker 1: And I want to focus on that for a second,

1404
01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:07,000
Speaker 1: because the fact that they're because the fact is that

1405
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: there are a number of different meanings packed into that

1406
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:14,559
Speaker 1: blunt question. If you don't like what you've got right now,

1407
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:19,000
Speaker 1: why don't you just switch, abandon your post, and leave

1408
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:22,400
Speaker 1: it for some other poor soul to deal with. You know,

1409
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:26,559
Speaker 1: when I first heard this question, the logic rang true

1410
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:29,920
Speaker 1: in a sort of consumer type way, right. It was

1411
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:32,240
Speaker 1: similar to when people would ask, if you don't like

1412
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:36,320
Speaker 1: this or that brand of cereal, or this news channel

1413
01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 1: or this phone service provider, then why don't you just

1414
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:44,720
Speaker 1: exercise your power as a consumer and switch providers or

1415
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 1: buy a different brand, or watch a different channel. And

1416
01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:51,840
Speaker 1: you know, it was that sentiment that led me to

1417
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 1: quit that first high school job at Pepees. In a

1418
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:59,880
Speaker 1: marketplace where businesses are supposedly competing with one another for

1419
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:03,880
Speaker 1: customers and workers, it felt like I could leverage that

1420
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:08,040
Speaker 1: to improve my own lot in life. And you know,

1421
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:11,680
Speaker 1: that may have been true once, but it is increasingly

1422
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:16,880
Speaker 1: not the case these days. Instead, what we've got is

1423
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:21,480
Speaker 1: ninety percent of media operations being owned by four mega corporations,

1424
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:26,479
Speaker 1: these new techno monopolies like Amazon, Facebook, and Google and

1425
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:30,679
Speaker 1: Apple are gobbling up every square inch of our digital world,

1426
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:34,519
Speaker 1: just like big agriculture and the factory farming industry are

1427
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 1: gobbling up all the farmland and polluting the literal ship

1428
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:42,479
Speaker 1: out of the surrounding area. And you know, just like

1429
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:47,280
Speaker 1: most consumer products are owned by a handful of industry behemoths,

1430
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:53,000
Speaker 1: the illusion of a competitive marketplace and the power of

1431
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:58,520
Speaker 1: consumer choice is increasingly giving way to an oligopolistic economy

1432
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:02,280
Speaker 1: where our ability to move and make the market respond

1433
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:06,599
Speaker 1: to our needs is dwindling down more and more by

1434
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:10,439
Speaker 1: the day. And that really is the whole endgame here.

1435
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:14,160
Speaker 1: Because once the question was if you don't like it,

1436
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:18,479
Speaker 1: why don't you just leave? What they want the question

1437
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:22,680
Speaker 1: to be is, well, where else are you going to go?

1438
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:26,760
Speaker 1: And they use their power and their influence to make

1439
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:31,559
Speaker 1: sure the question is already answered for us. You know,

1440
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:37,679
Speaker 1: worker's unrestricted freedom to reject insufficient working situations by leaving

1441
01:24:38,479 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 1: is necessary to make the whole social contract of capitalist

1442
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:47,360
Speaker 1: society worth it in theory. In practice, it doesn't really

1443
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:51,080
Speaker 1: work that way. It's a lot more complicated. Just like

1444
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:55,400
Speaker 1: human beings, we are much more complicated than that. Sometimes

1445
01:24:55,439 --> 01:24:59,120
Speaker 1: there aren't other jobs to be had. Sometimes you really

1446
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:02,680
Speaker 1: like your job and you don't want to leave. Sometimes

1447
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 1: it would cause life altering disruptions to you and your

1448
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:09,600
Speaker 1: family to lose even one day of pay, and so

1449
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:13,280
Speaker 1: you can't leave. And the more that you think about this,

1450
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:15,760
Speaker 1: the more that you start to get into the real

1451
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:20,120
Speaker 1: deep shit that working people have been asking themselves for centuries.

1452
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:26,960
Speaker 1: How free am I really in this system? Well, we'll

1453
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:30,280
Speaker 1: save that for another day. But the point is we

1454
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:34,040
Speaker 1: have to have more power than quitting in this system allows.

1455
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:38,920
Speaker 1: If the power that we were promised, the power to

1456
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:42,559
Speaker 1: use our feet to dictate our own futures and to

1457
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:46,719
Speaker 1: discipline employers into doing better by their workers, is constantly

1458
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:50,000
Speaker 1: being eroded, we need to build that power back up.

1459
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:53,719
Speaker 1: And you know, I think the Great Resignation shows how

1460
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:57,640
Speaker 1: essential that power is. But we need more than that,

1461
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:02,639
Speaker 1: and we deserve more than that. We need power in

1462
01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:08,439
Speaker 1: the workplace. We need people staying and fighting. We need

1463
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:11,520
Speaker 1: to push for the changes that we want to see,

1464
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:13,880
Speaker 1: and then we need to lock those changes into a

1465
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:19,600
Speaker 1: binding contract. We need to build strong and durable infrastructures

1466
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:24,240
Speaker 1: for workers to get and stay organized. Because true power

1467
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:29,519
Speaker 1: in the workplace comes from the collective. What they want

1468
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:33,440
Speaker 1: is to rig the game so that a heavily organized

1469
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:38,000
Speaker 1: and well resourced ruling class is always going up against

1470
01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:43,800
Speaker 1: a permanently disorganized and atomize working class because they know,

1471
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:47,960
Speaker 1: as is always the case, that there are more of

1472
01:26:48,040 --> 01:26:52,520
Speaker 1: us than there are of them. If we organize ourselves,

1473
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:56,559
Speaker 1: if we stand together, like workers around this country and

1474
01:26:56,600 --> 01:27:00,040
Speaker 1: around the world are standing together right now, if we

1475
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:04,559
Speaker 1: stay and fight, we can win. It's more possible than

1476
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 1: you think. Just look at Starbucks, look at Amazon. Because

1477
01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:13,320
Speaker 1: what scares the bosses more than anything is the day

1478
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 1: when workers realize that, and that day is coming. Thank

1479
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:23,320
Speaker 1: you for watching this segment with breaking points, and be

1480
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:26,080
Speaker 1: sure to subscribe to my news outlet, The Real News,

1481
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:29,680
Speaker 1: with links in the show description. See you soon for

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Speaker 1: the next edition of the Art of Class War. Solidarity

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Speaker 1: Forever