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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: The Jobs Friday addition and a Job's Friday market that

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Speaker 2: we are all experiencing is Charlie was just running us

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Speaker 2: through because it was indeed a hot payrolls print we

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Speaker 2: got today actually one that our economists here at Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Economics might have predicted. They thought this was going to

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Speaker 2: come in higher than the consensus call. And indeed, one

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Speaker 2: hundred and seventy seven thousand job editions in the month

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Speaker 2: of March is what we got. Something the White House

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Speaker 2: is touting. Stephen Meyer, and who chairs the Council of

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Speaker 2: Economic Advisors over there, joined Bloomberg earlier today.

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Speaker 3: There's been an ongoing disconnect between the hard data and

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Speaker 3: the soft data, and the hard data continue to perform

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Speaker 3: very well. Hundred and seventy seven thousand jobs last month,

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Speaker 3: a beat of forty thousand jobs. That's the President's second

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Speaker 3: jobs they beat in a row. And on top of that,

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Speaker 3: you've got eleven thousand construction jobs, you know, expanding and

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Speaker 3: expanding construction construction sector in spite of the President's cut

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Speaker 3: crack down on the border.

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Speaker 4: So there you have it. Non farm payrolls increasing by

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Speaker 4: one hundred and seventy seven thousand last month, and nobody

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Speaker 4: came closer than Anna Wong, who joins us right now

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Speaker 4: Bloomberg Economics chief US economist, and it's great to see you.

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Speaker 4: The headlines all seem to read the same, hotter than

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Speaker 4: expected despite uncertainty over tariffs. Is that how you see it?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So we basically predicted this right, but I also

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Speaker 5: said in our preview that this would be the last

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Speaker 5: solid print before we're about to have very too, very

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Speaker 5: weak print. And even this solid print surprised me in

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Speaker 5: some with some details on how weak certain things are.

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Speaker 5: So i'll tell you, Joe. The thing that surprised me

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Speaker 5: was that the gains in professional and businesses sector, which

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Speaker 5: is what we expected, actually largely came from employment services.

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Speaker 5: So basically, employment services are the people who are helping

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Speaker 5: temp agencies, helping filled helping people who are jobless to

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Speaker 5: get temp jobs. So essentially, the support to payrolls print

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Speaker 5: today is due to an increase in demand of jobs

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Speaker 5: of helping jobless people.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, that is definitely important to consider as we

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Speaker 2: look at the kind of breakdown here. There's also the

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Speaker 2: fact that manufacturing was not seeing job expansion. Instead, those

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Speaker 2: jobs went down by about one thousand last month. What

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Speaker 2: is that signal, Anna, Because we've talked about how it's

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Speaker 2: manufacturers that actually felt the effects of these tariffs largely.

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Speaker 5: First, yes, and so any economic models would predict that

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Speaker 5: the indicated decaters that would be showing the earliest evidence

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Speaker 5: of the impact of tariff would be ism manufacturing, and

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Speaker 5: we did see it today. I mean this week that

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Speaker 5: in the survey kits that firms are resorting to layoffs now.

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Speaker 5: So that's why we have seen a negative change in

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Speaker 5: payrolls today for manufacturing sectors. In the coming to payrolls report,

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Speaker 5: we are expecting a significant slow down in logistics and

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Speaker 5: trade sector. And usually basically in May and in June

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Speaker 5: and July, you're supposed to see bustling of activity in

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Speaker 5: the ports because firms are very busy getting the shipments

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Speaker 5: off the boats, transporting those goods that are about to

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Speaker 5: stock up the shelf and home deepot for ahead of

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Speaker 5: Halloween for you know, and target for go to getting

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Speaker 5: back to school. All those are supposed to be arriving

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Speaker 5: on the ports in May and June, and we are

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Speaker 5: not going to see that because of the disruption. We're

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Speaker 5: already seeing there are only you know, thirty five ships

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Speaker 5: leaving China for US as of two days ago. Nothing

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Speaker 5: could change that. Even if there's a one hundred percent

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Speaker 5: pivot in today, we are still not going to see

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Speaker 5: the goods in the ports in the first two weeks

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Speaker 5: of May.

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Speaker 4: Fascinating. We heard from Elon Musk this week talking about

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Speaker 4: the efforts of the DOGE or the accomplishments of the DOGE.

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Speaker 4: Of course, the original intention was to find two trillion

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Speaker 4: dollars in cuts. They got to one hundred and sixty billion.

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Speaker 4: He said, also put a number on job cuts one

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Speaker 4: percent of the federal workforce, twenty thousand people. Does a

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Speaker 4: number like that have an impact in the jobs data

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Speaker 4: or is that much smaller than some people expected and

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Speaker 4: it's a blip on the radar.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So one hundred and fifty billion, if we take

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Speaker 5: that number at face value, is basically where our baseline was.

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Speaker 5: You know even I remember Scott Bessen two months ago

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Speaker 5: when he did an interview with Bloomberg here with Saleja,

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Speaker 5: our reporter Saleja, he said that it would be already

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Speaker 5: you know, a cherry and a cake to have two

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Speaker 5: hundred billion cuts. So that is something. And also in

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Speaker 5: terms of the reduction and federal workforce that Joe, remember

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Speaker 5: that the key piece is actually the hiring free. Every year,

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Speaker 5: about one hundred twenty two hundred and fifty thousand federal

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Speaker 5: workers self retire or just naturally go through attrition, and

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Speaker 5: so by not refilling that that replacing those jobs, you're

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Speaker 5: actually slowly downsizing the federal government workforce. And by twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty eight, at the end of this Trump administration, the

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Speaker 5: federal workforce would be maybe at least six to ten

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Speaker 5: percent smaller than when it begins.

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Speaker 2: Well, of course, we have a long way to go

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Speaker 2: until we get to twenty twenty eight. Just judging by

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Speaker 2: how twenty twenty five has gone so far, probably it's

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Speaker 2: going to feel like a lot more than just four years.

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Speaker 2: And finally, on the data today, when we consider that

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Speaker 2: we actually had cooler wage growth than expected. Knowing we've

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Speaker 2: had this ongoing conversation about, Oh, what's going to happen

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Speaker 2: if the FED is faced with both inflationary and growth

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Speaker 2: risk at the same time, what do they do? Does

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Speaker 2: that actually suggest that some of those inflationary pressures you

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Speaker 2: might be worried about are not present at least right now.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So keep in mind that our team has been saying

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Speaker 5: that the core PCEE inflation would not be as high

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Speaker 5: as what the consensus is saying and what the FED

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Speaker 5: is projecting, because precisely for that reason, Kayley, we think

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Speaker 5: that the service sector, which is more important for the

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Speaker 5: US economy it accounts for about seventy percent of CBI basket,

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Speaker 5: that part of the economy is going to soften, and

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Speaker 5: as a result, that disinflationary pressure from the services will

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Speaker 5: offset some of the goods price inflation that we might

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Speaker 5: be seeing. So on net, we just don't think that

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Speaker 5: the tariff shock will ultimately lead to a three point

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Speaker 5: five to four point zero core pc inflation that internal

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Speaker 5: FED forecast might be showing.

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Speaker 2: All right, of course we'll be hearing from the FED

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Speaker 2: on Wednesday. Wonder how that data will factor into the

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Speaker 2: fact that they're very likely to not do anything with

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Speaker 2: rates next week, and along of Bloomberg Economics joining us

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Speaker 2: on this Jobs Today. Thank you so much, and we

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Speaker 2: want to continue the conversation now as we turn to

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Speaker 2: Catherine Edwards, who's an economic policy consultant and a contributor

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Speaker 2: to Bloomberg Opinion here with us on Bloomberg TV and Radio.

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Speaker 6: Catherine, welcome back.

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Speaker 2: I wonder you're reading of the jobs report today, knowing

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Speaker 2: we've been talking to you for months now about concern

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Speaker 2: you have around what could be a deterioration in the

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Speaker 2: labor market. Doesn't look like we're seeing that much evidence

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Speaker 2: of it yet.

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Speaker 7: No, I would call this a muted, if not boring

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Speaker 7: jobs report. I mean, we're we're all looking through it

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Speaker 7: with a fine tooth comb, but there's really not that

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Speaker 7: much there. And I think it's expected given the timing

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Speaker 7: of the bigger tariff announcements. The data is collected just

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Speaker 7: in the second week of the month, so it would

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Speaker 7: have been pretty radical for the tariffs to have affected

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Speaker 7: the labor markets so quickly and so intangibly. The way

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Speaker 7: that the mechanisms of a tariff affecting the labor market

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Speaker 7: now are pretty well understood, but they don't happen as

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Speaker 7: fast as a week and a half from an announcement.

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Speaker 4: So what's your trajectory then for the job market. We

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Speaker 4: just got a GDP showing contraction in the first quarter.

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Speaker 4: We're seeing recession odds go up. Some suggest we're in

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Speaker 4: a recession already once we work through the next couple

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Speaker 4: of months. The impact of tariff uncertainty, the federal worker

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Speaker 4: layoffs that we were just discussing, with a broader slowdown

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Speaker 4: economically means what for this job market.

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Speaker 7: You know, I went through the beij book that was

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Speaker 7: reported in April to hear what the Federal Reserve regional

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Speaker 7: branches are hearing from employers in their districts, and you'll

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Speaker 7: see kind of throughout the reports not starting layoffs, but

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Speaker 7: making preparation for reductions in headcount. Right, they have not

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Speaker 7: felt the need to cut their jobs, but they are

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Speaker 7: preparing for a headcount reduction. And this definitely dovetails with

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Speaker 7: what we are seeing in consumer sentiment. Now. It's very

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Speaker 7: easy for people to kind of dismiss consumer sentiment of

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Speaker 7: like this is just the history of people, it's driven

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Speaker 7: by politics, But there's really good economic research behind the

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Speaker 7: tangible aspect of consumer sentiment. Is people who have information

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Speaker 7: that has not manifested in the economy yet. So this

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Speaker 7: would be something like your boss tells you your job's

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Speaker 7: going to end in June. You still have a job,

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Speaker 7: but you know something bad is coming. Or they tell

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Speaker 7: you if look, if more ships don't leave China and

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Speaker 7: these ports aren't busy, all of you are furloughed by

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Speaker 7: may or by mend of May. Right, there is a

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Speaker 7: sense in which consumer sentiment reflects information that people have

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Speaker 7: about where the economy is going, and this is why

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Speaker 7: it can tank kind of leading up to and is

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Speaker 7: considered a leading recession indicator. I think that those two

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Speaker 7: things combined, you know, they're worrisome. And we still haven't

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Speaker 7: seen an uptick in hiring. We still haven't seen employers

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Speaker 7: really expanding payrolls to a great degree. And one thing

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Speaker 7: that Anna didn't mention is that about a third of

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Speaker 7: job growth entirely this year comes from the health sector,

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Speaker 7: which is not a reflection of economic activity. That's rather.

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Speaker 2: Sure when you were referring to the idea that ships

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Speaker 2: aren't necessarily going to be coming in from China. We

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Speaker 2: heard from President Trump when he was at the meeting

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Speaker 2: of his cabinet earlier this week, talking about dolls, that

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Speaker 2: maybe children will only have two dolls instead of thirty,

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Speaker 2: and maybe those dolls will cost.

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Speaker 6: A few dollars more.

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Speaker 2: And I wonder if you see that as recognition of

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Speaker 2: an economic reality on the part of President Trump that

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Speaker 2: to this point he has seemed reluctant to adopt or acknowledge.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I think that this is another flip flop

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Speaker 7: from someone who changes his mind all the time. I

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Speaker 7: mean this, remember that we had in January and February

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Speaker 7: kind of dismissive concerns that economic pain was necessary, and

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Speaker 7: then we had following in March in April that the

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Speaker 7: FED just needs to cooperate with him. And so now

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Speaker 7: it's we're not going to have pain, but we will

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Speaker 7: have fewer dolls. I mean, I think it's just a

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Speaker 7: lack of consistency that we've seen top to bottom with

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Speaker 7: these tariffs. I mean, think about what was put on

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Speaker 7: a placard in the rose garden that didn't apply with

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Speaker 7: even in two weeks, or how deliberate were the numbers

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Speaker 7: that went up on a placard in a rose garden

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Speaker 7: that the Internet toured apart really an under an hour

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Speaker 7: that it wasn't really reflective of actual economic realities or

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Speaker 7: the relationships we have in terms of trade with other countries.

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Speaker 7: So I think there is a part of economic uncertainty

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Speaker 7: that is hard to place that comes from a distrust

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Speaker 7: of leadership. So we can negotiate trade agreements, we can

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Speaker 7: get things back on board. But you know, I don't

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Speaker 7: know how many businesses think that there is going to

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Speaker 7: be consistent economic policy or messaging coming from the White House.

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Speaker 4: Did Donald Trump just recognize reality though? Catherine? What will

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Speaker 4: this mean when it comes to back to school shopping?

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Speaker 4: This is going to be a massive story late summer

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Speaker 4: going into fall, and then there's going to be the

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Speaker 4: story about Christmas being canceled?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 4: Is there any way to turn this around?

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Speaker 7: You know, of course, like you should never give up

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Speaker 7: on the US economy and you should never give up

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Speaker 7: on good policy being able to make a difference. I

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Speaker 7: think that many people are scared. And I know that

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Speaker 7: the stock market is on a winning streak and that's great,

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Speaker 7: But the terror that is inflicted on savers when they

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Speaker 7: see their four oh one K take a nose dive

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Speaker 7: that doesn't bounce back as much as the SMP does

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Speaker 7: within a couple of weeks, there is a real fear

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Speaker 7: and vulnerability that goes into consumer thinking. And if you

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Speaker 7: hear from your boss we might have to do layoffs

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Speaker 7: in the summer, and you look at your four oh

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Speaker 7: one K balance at the wrong week in April and

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Speaker 7: you get scared about the future. You're not going to

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Speaker 7: spend money the same way. It's possible to turn mood

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Speaker 7: and sentiment around, but telling people fewer dolls is in

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Speaker 7: their future is probably not the way to do it.

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Speaker 8: Well.

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Speaker 2: And if we consider what the implication of a slowdown

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Speaker 2: in consumption would be, knowing that consumers are the engine

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Speaker 2: of the US economy, Catherine, that's where all of this

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Speaker 2: kind of recessionary talk comes in. Even the President has

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Speaker 2: said he thinks that there could be an economic slowdown

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Speaker 2: if the FED does not cut rates in time. A

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Speaker 2: repeated suggestion that the FED risks being too late here,

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Speaker 2: as they have in the President's mind been in the past.

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Speaker 2: And I wonder if you actually think there is some

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Speaker 2: truth to that notion that the FED is likely to

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Speaker 2: be late to react, just by the function of monetary

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Speaker 2: policy in the lag with which it works.

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Speaker 7: The FED, you know, doesn't serve one master, but the

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Speaker 7: US economy and they've got to act within the stewardship

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Speaker 7: of the US economy providing stability and certainty going forward.

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Speaker 7: And you know, if the President says johnthan Powell says

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Speaker 7: how high, that is even worse case scenario than a recession,

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Speaker 7: and that's a permanent hit to our economy and stability.

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Speaker 7: So we have to trust the Fed to put all

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Speaker 7: of the data on the table and have a broad

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Speaker 7: based decision making that isn't just about you know, intervening

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Speaker 7: during a time of uncertainty. And you know, frankly, like

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Speaker 7: what the US economy needs is stability uncertainty. And so

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Speaker 7: I think that this is what has made the tariff

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Speaker 7: rollout so doubly dangerous because as you mentioned, Kaylee, you know,

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Speaker 7: there is a certain degree to which recessions become self fulfilling.

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Speaker 7: That as people get more scared, they pull back on spending.

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Speaker 7: That declines economic activity because they're the engine of economic growth,

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Speaker 7: and that accelerates a decline, you know, as we're rolling

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Speaker 7: down the hill. So I, you know, I think Powell

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Speaker 7: being stayed here is really the antidote for a lot

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Speaker 7: of people's fears, you know, to the extent that they

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Speaker 7: pay attention as much as understanding the federal in the economy,

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Speaker 7: which which could be a leap for a lot of people.

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Speaker 7: But I think, as you know, people like us who

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Speaker 7: are in deep on following what is going on in

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Speaker 7: the details of the economy, it is nice to see

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Speaker 7: Powell putting data in the economy first.

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Speaker 4: That's great to have you back, Catherine, economic policy consultant,

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Speaker 4: Bloomberg opinion contributor Edwards with her view on the economy.

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Speaker 4: Just days away from the next FED meeting. He's got

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Speaker 4: his work cut out for him next week, Kaylee, J.

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Speaker 4: Powell is going to face questions about tariffs and Trump.

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Speaker 4: And you wonder if he brings any nuances that we

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Speaker 4: haven't heard yet to this conversation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, we've already heard repeatedly from him. The

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Speaker 2: FED operates independently, that independence is protected by law. They

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Speaker 2: feel that they have the flexibility here to wait and see.

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Speaker 2: There's too much policy uncertainty. He's probably not going to

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Speaker 2: signal hey, I'm thinking about cutting rates anytimes.

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Speaker 4: You don't even need to watch it now, Yes, listen

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Speaker 4: to Kaylee. Mick Mulvaney's on the way in. Yeah, we

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Speaker 4: have been talk to making some time. He'll join us

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Speaker 4: next with the view from the Republican Party, our Trump

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Speaker 4: whisperer on the way in here. As Donald Trump spends

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Speaker 4: the weekend at mar Alago, we'll have much more straight

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Speaker 4: ahead on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm. He's durn

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Speaker 1: on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven

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Speaker 1: thirty with.

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Speaker 6: A look at the Friday trade.

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Speaker 2: What could be the best rally or closing the best

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Speaker 2: nine day rally we've seen on the S and P

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Speaker 2: five hundred, the first time we've seen a nine day

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Speaker 2: rally like that going.

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Speaker 6: Back to two thousand and four.

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Speaker 2: As we could consider jobs and trade, and I wonder

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Speaker 2: there's a question as to whether or not the market

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Speaker 2: is also discounting the focus now being on tax cuts

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Speaker 2: that could be coming down the line as Congress is

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Speaker 2: still working on its budget reconciliation package. Though of course

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Speaker 2: they're not in town today, it's Friday, way would they be.

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Speaker 2: They're going to come back next week though, and the

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Speaker 2: House particularly is going to keep working though It's interesting

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Speaker 2: they actually have decided to punt on the markups and

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Speaker 2: some key committees of their pieces of legislation. The Energy

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Speaker 2: and Commerce Committee, which is still dealing with a massive

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Speaker 2: question around medicaid, the Ways and Means Committee, which actually

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Speaker 2: has to be the architect of this tax package. What's

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Speaker 2: going to be included, potentially a lifting of the salt cap.

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Speaker 2: Are they going to really not tax overtime tips or

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Speaker 2: Social Security and all of those various components. So there

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Speaker 2: still is a lot of work to do. But President

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Speaker 2: Trump Alice yesterday in the White House Rose Garden was

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Speaker 2: sounding optimistic because he still wants to see this one

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Speaker 2: big package come to fruition.

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Speaker 8: The progress of the one big beautiful bill. We love

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Speaker 8: that bill. I won't like it if it doesn't pass,

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Speaker 8: neither will you doesn't pass. Your taxes are going to

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Speaker 8: go up sixty eight percent. These will be the biggest

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Speaker 8: tax cuts in American history, with one hundred percent expensing,

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Speaker 8: which is something that people cannot believe they getting. We

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Speaker 8: did it in the last one and we had the

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Speaker 8: most successful economy in my first four years. That we've

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Speaker 8: ever had the history of our country.

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Speaker 4: Which brings us to our conversation with Mick Mulvaney, the

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Speaker 4: former acting White House Chief of Staff, former Republican congressman

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Speaker 4: who helped found the Freedom Caucus, and a former OMB

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Speaker 4: director is with us now. It's been a long time, Mick,

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Speaker 4: welcome back. Great to see you. You're no stranger to

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Speaker 4: this process or the President of the United States. And

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Speaker 4: so I want to pick up on what Kaylee mentioned,

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Speaker 4: the delayed markups for energy and commerce, ways and means agriculture.

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Speaker 4: At some point they're going to have to get to this.

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Speaker 4: And the matter of Medicaid has people in a bind.

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Speaker 4: The President says there will be no cuts. Speaker says,

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Speaker 4: we're not going to do it. There are members of

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Speaker 4: your former Freedom Caucus who want to see dramatic cuts.

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Speaker 4: But if we hold the line on this and make

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Speaker 4: good on what Donald Trump is saying there will be

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Speaker 4: no cuts to Medicare or Medicaid, where do you find

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Speaker 4: the money.

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Speaker 9: Hello, what happy Friday. Nice to see you guys working

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Speaker 9: on a Friday. Kaylee, You're getting a little bit cynical

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Speaker 9: about Washington d C. So look, they keep in mind that,

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Speaker 9: and I had this conversation with the There's a lot

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Speaker 9: of questions that wrapp up. Let me take the last

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Speaker 9: one about Medicare and Medicaid. When Donald Trump says there's

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Speaker 9: been no cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. I've had that

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Speaker 9: conversation personally Donald Trump a dozen times. And when he said,

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Speaker 9: Mickey can't cut Medicare in our twenty eighteen budget, for example,

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Speaker 9: soa mster president, what is Medicare to you? So well,

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Speaker 9: Medicare is what people get when they turn to the

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Speaker 9: healthcare they get when they're sixty five. I said, you know,

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Speaker 9: you're absolutely right, and I'm not going to touch that.

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Speaker 9: Can I please have your permission to go and look

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Speaker 9: at reducing spending or reforming everything else that's cump falls

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Speaker 9: under Medicare that people don't know about, most people don't

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Speaker 9: care about. He said, what do you mean? I said,

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Speaker 9: I ran down the fifteen different programs that are funded

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Speaker 9: out of this giant pot of money that medicare. He said,

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Speaker 9: that's not Medicare. So mister President, technically it is. He

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Speaker 9: goes good fix that. Our budget in twenty eighteen was

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Speaker 9: the largest entitlement reform proposal in history, but did not

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Speaker 9: touch these over sixty five health care benefits and did

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Speaker 9: not touch old age income supplements for Social Security, but

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Speaker 9: it still cut Social Security reform, medicare, those types of things.

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Speaker 9: So you have to watch the language. The bottom line, though,

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Speaker 9: to your point show is great.

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Speaker 4: It's hard.

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Speaker 9: It's really really hard. When we did that in the

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Speaker 9: budget twenty eighteen, the people who hated it the most

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Speaker 9: were Republicans in the Senate, and that hasn't changed. It's really, really,

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Speaker 9: really hard to cut spending. In fact, it's really hard

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Speaker 9: to slow the growth of spending in Washington. So that's

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Speaker 9: why you're seeing these meetings, these markups get canceled because

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Speaker 9: they don't know how to do it.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 2: As we consider spending, we should also note that the

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Speaker 2: President and the White House released their so called skinny

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Speaker 2: budget today, Mick, in which the President is proposing base

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Speaker 2: non defense discretionary budget authority of one hundred and sixty

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Speaker 2: three billion dollars that is nearly twenty three percent below

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Speaker 2: current year spending. Is there any real chance of that

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Speaker 2: becoming reality?

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Speaker 9: No? Not really. In fact, behind me, someplace over there

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Speaker 9: on the wall is the Wall Street Journal of cover story.

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Speaker 9: When we did the exact same thing in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 9: I think it was the same almost I called RUSS

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Speaker 9: that I have given them the thunds up because I

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Speaker 9: think that's the same percentage reduction in non defense discretionary

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Speaker 9: spending that we had that he and I did it

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Speaker 9: together in twenty eighteen. No, it doesn't have a chance.

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Speaker 9: It has more of a chance now than it does,

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Speaker 9: and that did twenty eighteen because Donald Trump has more

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Speaker 9: control over his own party. But while there was, you know,

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Speaker 9: more than half of the Republicans on the hill hated

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Speaker 9: it back in twenty eighteen. Maybe still fifteen percent of

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Speaker 9: them hate it now. And you can't lose fifteen percent

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Speaker 9: of the vote. So look, the way the compromises get

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Speaker 9: done in Washington, DC is that you spend more, not less.

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Speaker 9: And my guess is that's what they're going to end

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Speaker 9: up doing. In some fashion. They'll figure out a way

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Speaker 9: to call it a reduction in spending. But look, RUSS

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Speaker 9: vote doesn't get a vote on how Congress spends money,

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Speaker 9: and Congress is going to want to spend more money.

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Speaker 4: Does President care about this? We talk a lot about

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Speaker 4: deficit reduction and then we go ahead and pass a

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Speaker 4: bill with trillions of dollars in deficit spending. It kind

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Speaker 4: of looks like that's where we're going.

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Speaker 9: I think he cares, but he cares more about getting

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Speaker 9: the tax bill extended. And I think right now, if

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Speaker 9: he came to him said, look, mister President, we have

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Speaker 9: to cut spending in order to get the tax bill passed,

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Speaker 9: he would say, I am now the biggest fan of

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Speaker 9: cutting spending. If you came to him and said it's

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Speaker 9: to President, we're going to have to raise taxes on

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Speaker 9: the super wealthy in order to pass your tax bill,

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Speaker 9: he's going to be the biggest fan of raising taxes

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Speaker 9: on the super wealthy. He wants the bill passed. But

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Speaker 9: here's the part. And you guys mentioned this in the

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Speaker 9: run up, and I don't think this is getting nearly

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Speaker 9: enough attention. The bill is not a tax cut. The

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Speaker 9: bill is an extension of the current tax rates. It's

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Speaker 9: the prevention of a tax increase. And I know that

438
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Speaker 9: sounds like it's a semantic difference, but it's not. If

439
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 9: you are an ordinary middle class American and you hear

440
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 9: Donald Trump go on TV and say I'm going to

441
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 9: give you a huge tax cut, technically he's correct because

442
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 9: the current law is that your taxes are going to

443
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,719
Speaker 9: go up, and he's preventing that from happening. But if

444
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,439
Speaker 9: you were expecting more money in your wallet if this

445
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,639
Speaker 9: bill passes, you are going to be extraordinarily disappointed. And

446
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 9: that's going to be a hard sell for the Republican.

447
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 2: Well, and is it an even harder sell because it

448
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 2: is not just being pitched as a tax cut, but

449
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 2: something that's going to offset potentially the detrimental impact of

450
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 2: the tariff policy.

451
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 6: They say this is a one two punch.

452
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 2: You got to wait for the tax portion as you

453
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 2: consider what this is going to do overall economically. But

454
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 2: mag you're suggesting that there's not going to be that

455
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 2: much juice in this, Yeah, well, yeah.

456
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 9: This could be a little juice because a couple of

457
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 9: things have already phased out. I think the undred percent

458
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 9: expensing that we did in the twenty seventeen acts slowly

459
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 9: wound down, and resetting that to one hundred percent is

460
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,919
Speaker 9: going to help is certainly help on business investment and

461
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 9: so forth, and ultimately help with economic growth. But again,

462
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 9: if you are an ordinary person trying to figure out

463
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 9: if you have enough money to buy toys for Christmas,

464
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 9: and you're counting on that big beautiful bill. That's not

465
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,719
Speaker 9: going to help you. You are not going to have

466
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 9: more money in your pocket in order to pay for

467
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 9: the higher expensive the things that cost more because of tariffs.

468
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 9: And that's where I think the depth of the Republicans

469
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 9: have got a blind spot, especially in terms of a

470
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 9: pr message.

471
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 4: Where's Donald Trump on tariffs? Make? So many people think

472
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 4: they can get inside the president's head on this, it's

473
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 4: become a question about whether tariffs or a negotiating tool

474
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 4: or a way to raise revenue. There is a group though,

475
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 4: and there are many Republicans who tell us off the air,

476
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 4: Donald Trump never intended to have a new tariff policy

477
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 4: in place. This is, in fact leverage that he's using

478
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 4: in a couple of months on the road. We're not

479
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 4: even going to be talking about this anymore. Wall Street

480
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 4: seems to be maybe warming up to that idea. We've

481
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 4: just round trip back to where we were before so

482
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 4: called Liberation Day. Bring us inside his head when it

483
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 4: comes to tariffs.

484
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, of course, that's been the sixty four thousand dollars

485
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 9: questions since Liberation Day? Is it? Are they the Peter

486
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 9: Navarro tariffs, which are tariffs for the sake of tariffs

487
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 9: staying forever as a way to sort of encourage domestic

488
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 9: production of textiles again, or are they tariffs excuse me,

489
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 9: for the sake of leverage getting better trade deals. I'm sorry,

490
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 9: And I think what we know now is it's the latter.

491
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 9: It's the more nuanced approach that Scott Bessett has been pushing.

492
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 9: I don't think they're going away to it. I don't

493
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 9: think Peter Navarro is having nearly the voice in the

494
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 9: White House that he's had the last couple of months.

495
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: Well, someone who's a voice within the White House or

496
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 2: Trump's center circle is going to change.

497
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 6: We learned yesterday Mick is.

498
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 2: Mike Waltz, who's no longer Nowational Security Advisor, has now

499
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: become the nominee to be the US ambassador to the

500
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 2: United Nations. You obviously served in the first Trump administration.

501
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: You were familiar with the kind of turnover nature of it.

502
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 2: It's how you ended up at one point being acting

503
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 2: White House Chief of Staff. And I wonder what your

504
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 2: reaction was to yesterday's news that President Trump wasn't necessarily

505
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 2: letting him go. He's not getting fired, simply maybe being reassigned,

506
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 2: but Still, this is the first shakeup we have seen

507
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 2: in term two.

508
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 9: It is, and I got a different perspective on it

509
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 9: than I think most people look. I think I like

510
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 9: Mike Waltz. I think they'll be hurt by having Mike

511
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 9: Waltz's influence not available to them in the in the

512
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 9: White House. I know who's in charge of immigration policy

513
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 9: in the White House, that's Steven Miller. I know who's

514
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 9: in charge of leading the discussion on spending, that's Russ Vote.

515
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 9: I sort of had the impression that Mike Waltz was

516
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 9: at least a leading voice on foreign policy in the

517
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 9: White House, and now he'll be gone, Okay, And I

518
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 9: think that's that's that hurts the White House. There's no

519
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 9: question losing the talent like Mike Waltz hurts. But here's

520
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 9: the part I think they're missing. They've nominated him for

521
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 9: a Senate confirmed position. I consider that you ambassadorship to

522
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 9: be a demotion. I think most people would. John Bolton

523
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 9: didn't go from NSC at National Security advisor to you

524
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 9: an ambassador, and he went the other way. Nikki Haley

525
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 9: would not have gone down, she would have only gone up.

526
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 9: But it is Senate confirmed what does that mean? The

527
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 9: Democrats are going to get the investigation into so called

528
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 9: signal Gate that they haven't been able to get up

529
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 9: to this point, and we are going to be hearing

530
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 9: about this for a long time. I think Mike Wallas

531
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 9: is ultimately confirmed for this position. I just wonder if

532
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 9: we don't go through an entire summertime of drip drip

533
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 9: of leaks about signal Gate that somehow get collateral damage,

534
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 9: most specifically Hag Saith the Defense.

535
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,959
Speaker 4: It seems like we are. We talked to Senator Chris

536
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 4: Koons about this last evening and they're already preparing for

537
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 4: those hearings. Mike, we're out of time. I've only got

538
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 4: thirty seconds left. Can he still be confirmed? He clear committee?

539
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 9: Yeah? Yeah, No, he's he's qualified. He clear committee. It

540
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 9: was a mistake, There's no question. It was a stupid mistake.

541
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 9: It was a stake that rightly cost him his job.

542
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 9: But the man is imminently qualified for the position. I

543
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 9: think you'll be confirmed, all.

544
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 6: Right, Mick mulvaney. Great to have you back here. On

545
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 6: Balance of Power.

546
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 2: Former acting White House Chief of Staff in the first

547
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: Trump administration, former OMB director, former Republican congressman from South Carolina,

548
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: founder of the House Freedom Caucus.

549
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 4: You got okay.

550
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: It is a long resume joining us here on Bloomberg

551
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: TV and radio, and we still have much more ahead

552
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 2: of Our conversation with Democratic Congressman in New Jersey gubernatorial

553
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 2: candidate Mikey.

554
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 6: Cheryl is just ahead on Bloomberg.

555
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

556
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

557
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: Alma Cocklay and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business App.

558
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch

559
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.

560
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: The first real turnover, or at least shaking up of

561
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: the second Trump administration is he announced that his National

562
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: Security Advisor, Mike Walts, who of course was embroiled in

563
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 2: the signal Gate scandal after his inadvertent addition of a

564
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 2: journalist to a chat that discussed who the attack plans,

565
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: is now the nominee to be Ambassador to the United Nations,

566
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 2: leading many to question the other person who was operative

567
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: in that signal Gate scandal, the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth,

568
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 2: who actually texted the plans of the fighter jets the

569
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: weapons that would be used to strike the houthis and

570
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 2: what would happen to him? And it's something we had

571
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 2: a chance to ask Mikey Cheryl about earlier. She's a

572
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 2: Democratic congressman from New Jersey, also gubernatorial candidate in New

573
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 2: Jersey and happens to be a former Navy helicopter pilot

574
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: and sit on the Armed Services Committee.

575
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 6: And this is what she said when we asked about

576
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 6: the Defense.

577
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 10: Secretary Pete haig Seth needs to be fired. He is

578
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 10: somebody that has obviously given classified information out over signal,

579
00:28:55,120 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 10: which is not a classified platform and almost an explicable

580
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 10: He wasn't just done that text chain we're all aware

581
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 10: of with Mike Waltz. He was also on a separate

582
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 10: text chain with his wife and his brother, among other people.

583
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 10: So this is an infraction that would get a junior

584
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 10: pettiofficer court martialed. Certainly the Secretary of Defense needs to

585
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 10: be fired for this.

586
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 4: You were backing an amendment to prevent the Secretary of

587
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 4: Defense from destroying records and historical artifacts at the Pentagon

588
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 4: and in our Service Academy's congresswoman. You said in a

589
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 4: recent Armed Services Committee meeting that he's taken why the

590
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 4: cage Bird Sings by Maya Angelou off library shells, but

591
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 4: left two copies of Adolf Hitler's mind KOMF Does this

592
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 4: amendment have the support to pass?

593
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 10: Unfortunately we did not see that support in the House

594
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 10: Armed Services hearing that we held on it. Again, this

595
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 10: does not seem controversial to me. This erasure of history

596
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 10: of the service, particularly of black service members and women,

597
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 10: is on a front. I went to the Naval Academy,

598
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 10: I served for almost ten years as a helicopter pilot,

599
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 10: as a Russian policy officer, and I will tell you

600
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 10: the idea that somehow service women should not be there

601
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 10: is just infuriating when we have seen such brave and

602
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,479
Speaker 10: great service from so many women, like our former cno

603
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 10: who is one of the first admirals fired by this administration,

604
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 10: and others. So at this point, I am just really

605
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 10: convinced that Pete Hegseth is a real cancer on the

606
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 10: military and certainly needs to be fired.

607
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: As we consider the defense posture of the United States,

608
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 2: Congressman President Trump today is requesting a record one trillion

609
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: dollar national security budget. Is that level of spending justified

610
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 2: in the next fiscal year?

611
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 10: Well, I don't think we saw the one hundred and

612
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 10: fifty billion dollar supplemental well justified because we didn't have

613
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 10: the safeguards in place as to where it would go.

614
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 10: We in the hearing tried to make sure that we

615
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 10: understood exactly what was being funded. There wasn't a lot

616
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 10: of clarity, and there weren't enough guardrails. So simply dumping

617
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 10: one hundred and fifty billion dollars much less at trillion

618
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 10: dollars onto this Pentagon when we have a Secretary of

619
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 10: Defense that has proven to be very incompetent, many of

620
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 10: the top leaders having resigned. You know, at this point,

621
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 10: we don't have a new chief of Naval Operations. I'm

622
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 10: not sure anybody at this point wants that job because

623
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 10: of the chaos that we're seeing at the top in

624
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 10: the Pentagon. So we really, I think, have a lot

625
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 10: of concerns. I have a lot of concerns as a

626
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 10: member of the House Armed Services Committee about what the

627
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 10: proposals are in this budget and what they will be funding.

628
00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 4: Well, it becomes a question as well of what is

629
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 4: we're spending this money on, regardless of the spending level. Congresswoman,

630
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 4: I know this is a debate that you're involved in

631
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 4: on Armed Services. There was reporting recently that Elon Musk

632
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 4: actually advised Secretary Hegseth on procurement that we should be

633
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 4: spending less money on the weapons systems and platforms of

634
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 4: the Cold War and investing more in drones and hypersonic missiles.

635
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 4: Is he right?

636
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 10: I think that there's some truth in there. I think

637
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 10: what we saw, especially as we watched Ukraine, we saw

638
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 10: how important some of these drones and new technologies are.

639
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 10: I think the procurement process at the Pentagon is something

640
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 10: that I've been very concerned about for years, and I

641
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 10: think we can do a lot better. My concern though,

642
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 10: with somebody like Elon Musk advising this is the debacle

643
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 10: that he's created with the DOGE process, which has not

644
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 10: been thoughtful at all, which has actually fired a lot

645
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 10: of people that are critical to the running of our country,

646
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 10: people like air traffic controllers or people at the FDA

647
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 10: or the NIH. So I would be very concerned about

648
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 10: having Elon Musk run this process. And that's why at

649
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 10: the hearing we just had in Armed Services, we wanted

650
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 10: to understand what Doge was doing in the military. We've

651
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 10: got no clarity on that, which is just once again

652
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 10: related to my concerns about what's going on in the Pentagon,

653
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 10: especially under Secretary Higgseth.

654
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: Congressman, I'd like to ask you as well about the

655
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 2: budget reconciliation process that is well underway on Capitol Hill.

656
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: Though it is kind of one party only, Democrats don't

657
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: really seem to be playing a role here. But I

658
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 2: wonder when you consider your constituents at home in New Jersey,

659
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: if you still think they might actually be net beneficiaries

660
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: of this ultimate tax package, if it is to include

661
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: a lifting of the salt cap.

662
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,239
Speaker 10: I think overall they will probably lose out because what

663
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 10: we're seeing is a six trillion dollar addition to the deficit,

664
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 10: higher than anything we saw under the Inflation Reduction Act

665
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 10: or the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the Cares Act combined,

666
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 10: and in fact, this huge increase of the deficit well

667
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 10: at the same time not funding some of the really

668
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 10: basic priorities of our state. One in three children use

669
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 10: Medicaid as their insurance. Many of our nursing homes use

670
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 10: Medicaid to care for people at the end of their life.

671
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 10: Many families are relying on that nursing home care for

672
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 10: their loved ones. So we also see these hits to

673
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 10: the Department of Education and the Title I funding a

674
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 10: lot of funding that goes to the disabled community. I

675
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 10: hear from that community quite often about what the future

676
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 10: holds for them. And then at the same time, beyond

677
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 10: just what we're seeing in reconcilation, we're seeing these huge

678
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 10: hits to the economy of New Jersey that are ongoing

679
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 10: because of the terror regime and the chaos coming out

680
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 10: of Washington. So I'm hearing from everyone from a coffee

681
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 10: shop in my town saying costs are going to go up,

682
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 10: to a builder in my area saying I've stopped all

683
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 10: my projects because HVAC systems are going up thirty to

684
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 10: forty percent. And then as concerning we're seeing the world

685
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 10: community is becoming really infuriated by the destabilization of the

686
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 10: world economy by the United States. So we're hearing Canadian

687
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 10: tourists are not going to come down the shore this summer,

688
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 10: which is going to be a huge hit to our economy.

689
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 10: We're also hearing from you manufacturers that I was talking

690
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 10: to one manufacturer saying, look, I had these orders from Germany.

691
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 10: They just called me to cancel the orders to say

692
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 10: they're not buying American anymore. So I'm not just concerned

693
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 10: about the short term consequences here, but some of the

694
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 10: long term consequences that we're seeing on the ground in

695
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 10: New Jersey.

696
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 4: Well, we've spent the better part of this conversation talking

697
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 4: about the changing political realities here in Washington, and of

698
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 4: course there are national implications. If you become the next

699
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 4: governor of New Jersey, to what extent will you be

700
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 4: able to balance what's coming from Washington in the state

701
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 4: of New Jersey or is this Donald Trump's world?

702
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 10: No, this is why I'm running for governor because I

703
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 10: think we can take a very different path forward in

704
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 10: New Jersey. We have so much opportunity in this state.

705
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 10: I think building houses so we can drive down housing costs,

706
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 10: making sure we're planning for utilities, because I firmly believe

707
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 10: that the state that can drive down utility costs and

708
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 10: produce the power of the future while driving down carbon

709
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 10: emissions is the state that is going to own the

710
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 10: innovation of the future. Investing in our broken healthcare system

711
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 10: and rethinking how we're delivering care to millions of people,

712
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 10: I think there is such an incredible amount of opportunity

713
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 10: here to show a different and distinct path away from

714
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,919
Speaker 10: what we see coming out of Washington. What we see

715
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 10: is the attacks on the economy and the attacks on opportunity,

716
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 10: the attacks on just rights and freedom coming from Washington.

717
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 10: D C stand in the breach as New Jersey with

718
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 10: a different path forward, which I think is going to

719
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 10: be really.

720
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 4: Compelling, fascinating conversation with the congresswoman, also a gubernatorial candidate.

721
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: As you just heard, you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance

722
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and

723
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: five pm Eastern on Apple Cockley and Android Auto with

724
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on

725
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station Just Say

726
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

727
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,240
Speaker 4: Quite the rise in the markets here following that headline

728
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 4: of less than an hour ago coming from the Wall

729
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 4: Street Journal about an overture from Beijing when it comes

730
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 4: to trade, one of the President's most important issues, not

731
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 4: just trade in terrace, but also fentanel maybe an off

732
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 4: ramp here from China. According to the Wall Street Journal,

733
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 4: Wall Street is not waiting around to find out with

734
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,439
Speaker 4: new highs for the day with us now a little

735
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 4: bit earlier than usual is my partner Kayley Lines here

736
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 4: on Balance of Power for an important conversation that we're

737
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 4: going to have with Mallory McMorrow. It's been an interesting

738
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 4: day here in news though, coming off the date of

739
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 4: this morning the news from China, maybe we'll get some

740
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 4: more clarity on this. I think it was Kevin Hassett

741
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 4: yesterday who said there was trade news coming. We didn't

742
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 4: get it yesterday, but that doesn't mean it can't happen

743
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 4: on Friday.

744
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they keep us waiting, And of course this

745
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 2: news from the Journal comes after the Chinese Ministry of

746
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: Commerce signal that it is evaluating whether or not to

747
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: open talks with the United States on trade overall. But

748
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 2: the fact that this reporting suggests they're looking at fentanyl

749
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: specifically speaks to the very myriad range of issues that

750
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 2: the US is using tariffs to address with China. It

751
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: is not just about their over capacity in terms of

752
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 2: supplying the global markets and what he sees is a

753
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: way too large trade deficit. It's also about things like fentanyl,

754
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 2: and as we always have it's a question of how

755
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 2: much tariffs are intended to address those issues or how

756
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 2: much it is about on shoring US manufacturing American workers,

757
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 2: because that was the argument, of course, he was making

758
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 2: as he celebrated one hundred days in office in Michigan

759
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 2: last week.

760
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 4: That's right. Well, it brings us to the dichotomy that

761
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 4: we were talking about a little bit earlier this hour,

762
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 4: and Michigan is a great example of that when it

763
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 4: comes to auto tariffs, for instance, in the C suites,

764
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 4: and we've heard from Mary Barrow, we've heard from the

765
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 4: executives at all of the major US automakers. Jim Farley

766
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 4: certainly had strong feelings about tariffs. This is a massive

767
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 4: disruption in their supply chains and potentially in their business.

768
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 4: They're pulling guidance. But when you talk to auto workers

769
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 4: on the manufacturing floor, they love this idea and many

770
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 4: of them voted for Donald Trump.

771
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right.

772
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 2: Sean Fain, who leads the United Auto Workers, has been

773
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 2: wholly supportive of the idea of auto tariffs specifically. And

774
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 2: it becomes a question of is it something that is

775
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: different for the companies than it is for the workers

776
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 2: who are actually putting together these cars, And of course

777
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: that is a key constituency in states like Michigan.

778
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 4: Well, this is the backdrop for our conversation that we've

779
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 4: been looking for or to and telling you about. Mallory

780
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 4: mcmorro is with US Democratic Michigan State senator and now

781
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 4: a candidate for US Senate, having been framed repeatedly as

782
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 4: a rising star in the Democratic Party. Mallory McMorrow, Welcome

783
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 4: to Bloomberg. It's great to have you with us as

784
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 4: we have this conversation about trade and tariff specific to Michigan.

785
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 4: Just want to ask you more broadly. This past election

786
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 4: saw Michigan elect Eliza Slotkin and Donald Trump on the

787
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 4: same ballot. When we consider the message that you're honing

788
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 4: now as a new generation on the campaign trail, what

789
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,959
Speaker 4: is it that national Democrats misunderstand about your state.

790
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 11: Michiganders are fiercely independent, and it's so great to be

791
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 11: with both of you to share a little bit more

792
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 11: of why this is a state that in the nineteen

793
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 11: eighties had five of the top ten metro regions in

794
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 11: the entire country for median household income. So this idea

795
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 11: of this vision of make America great again, I think

796
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 11: compelling to a lot of Michiganders who remember vividly when

797
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 11: we were the most prosperous state in the country, and

798
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 11: there is a longing to recapture that prosperity, and the

799
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 11: question is how so. I think that is a reason

800
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 11: why many Michiganders may have voted for Donald Trump, but

801
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 11: also see the appeal in somebody like Alissa Slotkin, somebody

802
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 11: who is no BS. She will tell it to you straight.

803
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 11: She brings a strong national security background with her work

804
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,439
Speaker 11: in the CIA, and I think a lot of Michiganders

805
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 11: respect the fact that Alissa served under both Presidents Bush

806
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 11: and Obama. In a moment where we see nothing but division,

807
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 11: people want to see their elected leaders work together. So

808
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 11: my campaign is really centered on this idea of making

809
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 11: a new American dream, acknowledging that we can't recreate the

810
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 11: prosperity of our past by going backwards and leaning into

811
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 11: my own story. I'm a millennial who graduated right into

812
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 11: the recession. I had no job prospects, I had no

813
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 11: health insurance. I lived in the back of my car

814
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 11: for a few nights, applied to three hundred jobs. And

815
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 11: I talked to michigan ors across this state who share

816
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 11: that sentiment and frustration of having done everything right and

817
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 11: still feeling like they're behind and they're not getting ahead,

818
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 11: and they don't have stability. So this is going to

819
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 11: be about three things, success, safety, and sanity, and writing

820
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 11: that new American dream together in a way that people

821
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 11: can see themselves in. That isn't just about Donald Trump.

822
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 11: It's not about, you know, relitigating what he's doing or

823
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 11: not doing. It's about what our future looks like.

824
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 2: Well, and we do want to get into the fact

825
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: that you are a millennial and kind of the generational

826
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: question now at play with the Democratic Party and what

827
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,959
Speaker 2: you might represent. But to touch back on your point

828
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 2: around prosperity and what it will take to return it.

829
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: For those who were gathered at the rally in Macomb

830
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 2: County earlier this week, as Donald Trump talked about the

831
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 2: Reagan Democrats and the auto workers who he thinks his

832
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 2: policies will benefit, what is your message to that particular

833
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: part of Michigan's constituency that you are seeking to represent,

834
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 2: who feel like these policies actually would serve to benefit them.

835
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 11: There is a world where a thoughtful trade policy, thoughtful

836
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 11: tariff policy could do things like bring a third or

837
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 11: fourth shift back on some of our manufacturing facilities that

838
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 11: have laid workers off or have idled. But what we're

839
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 11: seeing now is the broad expansive tariffs that went on

840
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 11: after the announcement of the auto tariffs on everyday goods

841
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 11: from clothes to coffee to bananas to diapers is going

842
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 11: to devastate workers. So the approach that I have that

843
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 11: I hope michiganders here is that we have to be

844
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 11: thoughtful as we put policy forward and not have this

845
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 11: approach that I think we've seen out of the Trump

846
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 11: administration of ready fire aim of let's just announce things,

847
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 11: see how they go. And I think Michigan really, for

848
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 11: the rest of the country is a canary in the

849
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 11: coal mine. We saw some strong jobs numbers come out

850
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 11: this morning. However, Michigan has the second highest increase in

851
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 11: unemployment in the entire country or unemployment rate is sitting

852
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 11: right now around five point five percent. We've seen layoffs

853
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 11: at stalantis, at suppliers, at small business owners, and we

854
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 11: see that ripple effect play out where you know, over

855
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 11: in Long Beach, the longshorem and put out a really critical,

856
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 11: strong letter about the impact that this is going to

857
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 11: have to jobs in the economy. If we don't see

858
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 11: some measuring in the approach to tariff policy. So I

859
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 11: am heartened by some of the news out of Beijing

860
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 11: that you just mentioned, but we're going to have to

861
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 11: see some stability and not the chaos that we've seen

862
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:43,919
Speaker 11: so far.

863
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 4: There's a question about whether it's to engage right now.

864
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 4: James Carvel would say Democrats should hibernate, give Trump the rope.

865
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 4: Governor Gretchen Whitmer was criticized, as I'm sure you saw,

866
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 4: by a lot of Democrats for coming to Washington to

867
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 4: meet with President Trump. There was a bit of an

868
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 4: awkward Oval Office appearance. But then days later we learned

869
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,879
Speaker 4: that Selfridge Air Base would get a new fighter wing,

870
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 4: which she lobbied for. So is your governor actually the

871
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 4: smartest one in the room?

872
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 11: I think what people want to see right now is

873
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 11: that you know not only how to fight, but when

874
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 11: to fight and when not to fight. Governor Whitmer is

875
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 11: in one of the most difficult positions that I think

876
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 11: any governor is in in the country. We have seen

877
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 11: a president who is willing to carry out vengeance and

878
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 11: retribution on governors who dare to stand up to him.

879
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 11: We saw this with Governor Mills and Trump rescinding funding

880
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 11: from her state. So Governor Whitmer has a track record

881
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 11: of standing up strong against Donald Trump. But at the

882
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 11: end of the day, she has to protect and deliver

883
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 11: for Michigander. So she went out to that Oval Office

884
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 11: meeting to advocate for a new mission at Selfridge Air

885
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 11: Force Base in Macomb County, and we saw that come

886
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 11: to light last week and the end of the day,

887
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 11: what I'm hearing from Michiganders is that they are grateful

888
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 11: that she understands when to work with him, I think

889
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 11: when to work against him, maybe stand up to him.

890
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 11: She's not compromising her values. She's still a strong advocate

891
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 11: for reproductive rights, for women's rights, for voting rights, all

892
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 11: of the things that we need to stand up for.

893
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 11: But also knows that, you know, Selford Air Force Base

894
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 11: delivers eight hundred and eighty million dollars of economic activity

895
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 11: in southeast Michigan and in for our state. That is

896
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 11: essential for the success of our state. And she knew

897
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 11: the only way we were going to get that was

898
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 11: by meeting him, by flattering him, and she did that

899
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 11: and did it successfully.

900
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 2: As you talk about values here, Mallory and the kind

901
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 2: of the values that do unite the Democratic Party. I

902
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 2: think we all also know that there are plenty of

903
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 2: fissures within the party itself, especially in the aftermath of

904
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty four election and in the contested primary

905
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 2: in which you are competing, including against the incumbent Congressman

906
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 2: Hailey Stevens, for that Senate seat. Is that risk bringing

907
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: to light some of those deep fissures. And I wonder

908
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 2: what aspect what part of the Democratic Party you see

909
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: yourself representing here?

910
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 11: You know, I don't think so. One of the things

911
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 11: that I believe has been frustrating for voters across the

912
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 11: political spectrum is feeling like the parties are making decisions

913
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 11: for them, that voters do not have a choice as

914
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 11: to which their preferred candidate is. I think that was

915
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 11: some of the frustration that I heard on the ground

916
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 11: in twenty twenty four from the Democratic Party. I think

917
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 11: Vice President Harris was put in a nearly impossible situation.

918
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 11: I think that she did an incredible job with the

919
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 11: one hundred days or so that she had to mount

920
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 11: a campaign. But I also heard from voters who said

921
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 11: that they really wanted to have a primary that if

922
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 11: President Biden was not going to seek the reelection or

923
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 11: was unable to that voters should decide. So I'm excited

924
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 11: about having a primary that is going to give Michiganders

925
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 11: the option, the ability to look at multiple candidates, look

926
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 11: at their platforms, look at their approach. My sense in

927
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 11: this moment to answer the second half of your question,

928
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 11: is that this is going to be an election decided

929
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 11: less by where a candidate falls in the political spectrum,

930
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 11: whether they are a progressive, moderate or somewhere in between,

931
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 11: and more about what their approach is. And that is

932
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 11: where I think I fit. I have been a very

933
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,439
Speaker 11: pragmatic legislator here in the Michigan Senate. I came into

934
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 11: office flipping a Republican district in twenty eighteen. My predecessor

935
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 11: had won by fourteen points. I beat him by four

936
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 11: So we swung a district almost twenty points in the

937
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 11: first cycle. And I did that by appealing to a

938
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 11: lot of voters across Oakland County who saw me and

939
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 11: they said, you remind me a lot of my daughter

940
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 11: who left and went to Chicago or New York or Denver.

941
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 11: Why are you in Michigan and what can we do

942
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 11: to bring my kids back, and that is a value

943
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 11: that I think is universal, that Michigan should be a

944
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 11: place of opportunity and family, and that this should be

945
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 11: a place where people want to stay, invest, start a family,

946
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 11: buy a house. And that is the approach that I'm

947
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 11: taking into this election. That I feel like this is

948
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,439
Speaker 11: less about re litigating maybe a twenty sixteen political fight

949
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 11: where you know, it's the Bernie wing versus the Hillary wing,

950
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 11: and people are looking for somebody who stands up and

951
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 11: communicates and believes that we have a future after the

952
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 11: Trump presidency, knows how to articulate what that is and

953
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 11: shows that they're willing to fight for Michiganders.

954
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 2: All right, Mallory, we appreciate you joining us. Mallory Morrow

955
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: is a Democratic state senator in Michigan and of course

956
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 2: is candidate for a Senate seat in Michigan as well.

957
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 6: Thank you for being.

958
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 4: Here, Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.

959
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 4: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't all a ready

960
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 4: at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and

961
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 4: you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC

962
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 4: at Noontimeeastern at Bloomberg dot com.