1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody in Happy New Year. It's me Josh, and 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: for this week's select, I've chosen a nice, easy, interesting 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: episode that doesn't require too many brain cells, just a 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: neat story about the centuries long hunt for the Locknest Monster. 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: Maybe you can listen on New Year's Day when you're 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: on the couch, or to help you on wine from 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: the holidays, or to help you sleep. This one would 8 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: be good for sleeping. So sit back, relax, mellow out, 9 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: and enjoy this episode. Happy New Year to you all, 10 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: and to my sweet wife Umi, Happy birthday. Welcome to 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and 12 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Jerome Rowland over there. So 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: this is stuff you should know. Is that Frankenstein? Is 15 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: that Frankenstein? Or what? No? You got your arms extended 16 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: like it is? Oh? Those are arms? Those are flippers. 17 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: Oh I see I'm a monster. Okay, that was a 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: groundskeeper Willie clothes. Yeah, that was pretty good. The country 19 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: are we? Are you doing like a Lochness monster impression? Man, 20 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: you're good. I used the powers of deduction like Sherlock 21 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: Holmes did in the Private Life of Sherlock Holmes. Oh, 22 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: look at that little bit of foreshadowing. By the way, 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: we covered a bit of this everyone we Know and 24 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: Sea Monsters four years ago. But we felt this monster 25 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: was so great that or she perhaps, yeah, maybe Nessie 26 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: deserved her own space. Let's just go with there. Sure, 27 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: why not? Right? So? Um, yeah, I went back. I 28 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: was like, I feel like we definitely did a Lockness episode. 29 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: But no, it's just a little little passage in the 30 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: Sea Monster episode. So we'll flesh that out a little bit. Okay, sure, 31 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: so Chuck, let's go back about ten thousand years. Okay, 32 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 1: we need a lot of kerosene in the Way Back 33 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: Machine and human excrement farts. Can I say that? Well 34 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: you just did, all right, we'll see if that stays. 35 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: So human farts and kerosene apparently now power the way 36 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: Back Machine. Oh it always did. Maybe Jerry will add 37 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: some extra sound effects. So here we are, and we're 38 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: actually chucking the lamb that will become Scotland in a 39 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: few thousand years. And if you'll look right there, right there, 40 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: there's a glacier retreating. It's melting as it melting, it's 41 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: filling up this gouge in the earth. And this gouge, 42 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: Chuck is eventually going to be called lock Mess. That's right. 43 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: And this gouge, my friend, as you know, is not 44 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: huge as far as square miles go, but it's very 45 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: very deep. It is. It's like so Lachnus is like 46 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: long and narrow, and it like it was created when 47 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: an ice sheet gouged the rocky earth in Scotland ten 48 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: thousand years ago and then the ice melton filled it 49 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: in basically like I just said. And it was a 50 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: deep gouge, not very wide, but it's like deeper than 51 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: the North Sea. Yes, around Scotland. It looks like thirty 52 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: six kilometers or twenty three miles long. And then most 53 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: recently the newest deep its depth is measured it close 54 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: to nine hundred feet, which is staggering. Yeah, it's so 55 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: it's like a thousandth the size of Lake Michigan, but 56 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: it's three and a half times deeper than Lake Erie Man. 57 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: That's deep. It is very very fair lake. It's also 58 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: really dark too, because the runoff from the land around 59 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: it's very peat rich, which is black, and so that 60 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: that runoff goes into the lake and it turns the 61 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: lake a very very dark color. So it's like it 62 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: looks mysterious, like you can look at Locknets. I've never 63 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: been there personally aside from this time now that we're here. Sure, um, 64 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: but from what I understand, it is a like a 65 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: nice mysterious looking lake. Yeah, and that I mean, I've 66 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: always thought it looked creepy, but it's beautiful really. But 67 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: there's something about deep dark and you know, reputed monsters 68 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: that will do that to you over the years. Yeah, 69 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: you know lake lakes in Georgia, I don't. I heard 70 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: once there's no natural lake in Georgia that every single 71 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: lake in Georgia is man made by Power Power Company. 72 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: As far as that, I mean, I don't know as 73 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: far as I know that's true. There may be there 74 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: may be a natural lake somewhere that I don't know 75 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: about in the mountains. But I think they're supposedly all 76 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: Georgia power lakes, aren't they. That's that's what I understand, 77 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: And every single one of them, I mean, they're they're 78 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: no deeper than like thirty forty fifty feet. It's not 79 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: very deep at all, as far as lakes go, and 80 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: a lot of them have like flooded structures, like they 81 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: built a dam and like the water built up around 82 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: it and flooded like towns or whatever. For sure, Like 83 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: there's a gulf station at um under Lake Lanier, I believe, right, Yeah, 84 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: I mean there there are yeah, automobiles supposedly an old 85 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: remnants of houses under a lot of these lakes. It's 86 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: like a brother art though, when they've flooded the valley 87 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: exactly same thing. So when you're when you're swimming in 88 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: a lake in Georgia and it's just like thirty forty 89 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: fifty feet deep, you can just feel everything underneath you 90 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: imagine what it must be like swimming in a lake 91 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: and feeling that there's nine hundred feet between you and 92 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: the bottom of this lake and what all is there? Yeah, 93 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: you could I don't know, I feel like you could 94 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: probably sense that feeling, right. So if you put all 95 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 1: this together, you can kind of say, well, of course 96 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: people are saying that that there's something in locknets. You 97 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: can just look at it and think there's got to 98 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: be something hiding under there. And apparently that's been the 99 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: case for many, many thousands of years from what we understand. 100 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean this was I had no idea 101 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: that this went back that far. But there were these 102 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: people um way back in the day called the picks Picts, 103 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: and they were a tattoo covered tribe who were fierce warriors, 104 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: and the Romans named them painted ones I guess because 105 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: of their tattoos. And they carved these um I guess 106 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: they're just like it says, standing stones, but with little 107 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: carving like clay, like a wall carvings. They're No, they're like, 108 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: it's a free standing carved stone that has like pictures 109 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: of animals on them. But is it like a sculpture. No, 110 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: it's like a flat stone that they used is basically 111 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: like a canvas. But it's it's a it's a stone. 112 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: It's a free standing stone, all right, Because I saw 113 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: the pictures, but they were so close up you couldn't 114 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: really get that big image. But a long story short, 115 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: they were actually you know, animals and things like everyone 116 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: else that drew on cave walls. You would draw what's 117 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: around you and everything can pretty much be explained, except 118 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: for this one. They carved the Lockness Monster. We'll just 119 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: go ahead and say it. Yeah, it looks it looks 120 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: like kind of a seahorsey kind of thing, or you know. 121 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: And this article, one of the articles we used, was 122 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: from Nova PBS's Nova series and they basically point out 123 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: that if you look at all the other carvings that 124 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: the Picks made, they're immediately identifiable what animal they were 125 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: they were drawing. Sure with this particular one called the 126 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: Picked Beasts, no one has any idea and they're like, oh, okay, 127 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: well it was the Lockness monster that they drew, right, 128 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: Or an elephant that's swimming maybe, which, um, well, I 129 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: don't want to spoil it, but elephants do swim a 130 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: long distance. Yeah, that's the thing that connects the two 131 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: episodes today, isn't it. That's right, swimming elephants. Who'd a 132 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: thought that one thing? So, the Picks, at least as 133 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: far as fifteen hundred years ago, we're drawing pictures of 134 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: sea monsters around Scotland, and there's a lot of legends 135 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: of like sea monsters that we talked about in the 136 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: Sea Monsters episode in Scotland in general, not just lock 137 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: Nest like they're crazy for him. Yeah, they really are, 138 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: and they have all sorts of scary um stories behind 139 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:20,679 Speaker 1: them like the water kelpie. Yeah, that was that frightened 140 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: me reading it at my desk, right where the water 141 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: kelpie will come up and say, hey, kids, you want 142 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: to ride on my back through through the lock. It's 143 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: gonna be fun, sure, And because all this guy's kids 144 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: sound like that, And they jump on and they're immediately 145 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: stuck to the beast, which takes them down to the 146 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: depths of the lock, and they all drown and then chuck. 147 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: And then I think you should take it from here. 148 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 1: Why which part their heads become stuck? And they're right, 149 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: and they drown and die. But then what happens the 150 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: next day? Oh yeah, this is I'm not quite sure 151 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: how this happens. But their livers wash ashore the next day. 152 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: So I guess the beast likes to eat every all 153 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: of the child except for the liver, which I get. 154 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: I don't like liver either. No, I don't like liver myself, 155 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: especially kid liver, right, which you would think would be delectable, 156 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: but yeah no. So um that So fifteen hundred years ago, 157 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: Lochness Monster possibly with the picks. We fast forward about 158 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: a thousand years beyond that, there was a saint named 159 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: Saint Colomba who showed up in Ireland and said, hey, heathens, 160 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: have you ever seen any pamphlets or brochures about Christianity? 161 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: I have someone I can give you, and converted the 162 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: Scots to Christianity in like five sixty five, I think 163 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 1: around that time. And there's a story of Saint Colomba 164 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: who was going to visit a Pictish king and said, 165 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: on the way, stopped at the lock and looked out 166 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: on the lock and there was some Scottish guy swimming 167 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: and Saint Columba saw a monster swimming toward the guy 168 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 1: as if to attack them, and held up his hand 169 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: and said, in the name of God, I command you 170 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: to turn around and swim away, and apparently the monster did. 171 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 1: And this really, I guess, extended Saint Columba's credibility among 172 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: the picks. Yeah, and I think we could just end 173 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: the show right there. There you go, that's the lockness 174 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: months proven by history, right, and then flash forward again. 175 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: There was a BBC correspondent name Nicholas Witchell. And there 176 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: are a lot of people who over the years, we'll 177 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: talk about a lot of them who have really gotten 178 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: into this, like quit their jobs and this became their 179 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: job kind of thing. Yeah, like it gets under your skin, yeah, 180 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: under your under your lackey beastly skin. And he wrote 181 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: a book in nineteen seventy four called The Lockness Story, 182 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: and he ended up digging up about a dozen or 183 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: so references pre twentieth century to some sort of monster 184 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, and it really started to pick up weirdly, 185 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,599 Speaker 1: like the late the second half of the nineteenth century, 186 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: and there it was sporadic. But the year of the 187 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: Lochness Monster, the year the Lochness Monster became part of 188 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: the public consciousness, was nineteen thirty three. Though for sure, 189 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: that sounds like a great place to take a break. 190 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: Oh boy, okay, let's do it all right, Chuck so 191 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: I said. Nineteen thirty three was the year that the 192 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: Lochness Monster kind of hit the global scene, like really 193 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: made the world party. Yeah, and for a good reason. 194 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: They finally built a road that went around the the 195 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: shore on the north side, specifically so you could all 196 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: of a sudden, you could drive on this lock and 197 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: you could look at it and stare at it and 198 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: eventually see something if you spend enough time there. And 199 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: in April that happened, mister and Missus McKay were local 200 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: to the region. They were driving home and they saw 201 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: what they described as the most extraordinary form of animal 202 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: rolling and plunging on the surface. That was written up 203 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: in the Invernous Courier and they used the word monster 204 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: for the first time, and so the Lochness Monster was 205 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: officially born. And that whole year, I mean that was 206 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: in the in April. That whole year, there were different 207 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: sightings and just kind of the fever really hit a 208 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: fever pitch. The fever hit a fever pitch. It was 209 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:53,599 Speaker 1: pretty feverish very quickly that year. Yeah. So there was 210 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: something else that happened in nineteen thirty three two that 211 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of people point to is potentially 212 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: something that kind of kept the media interest going, was 213 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: that King Kong was released basically worldwide in nineteen thirty three. 214 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: We have it, and there's like a whole thing about 215 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: you know this, that whole forbidden island where King Kong lives, 216 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: where like dinosaurs are still alive and stuff like that, 217 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: and a lot of people point to, you know, being 218 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: exposed to that as kind of keeping this like bringing 219 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: it to that fever pitch, you know. Yeah, I mean 220 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: there were more eyewitness sighting. Supposedly a motorcyclist saw one 221 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: on like crossing the road. Supposedly, they offered up a circus, 222 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: offered up a reward of twenty thousand pounds. People were 223 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: camping out and kind of, you know, just kind of 224 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: waiting for NeSSI to appear. And then finally in December, 225 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: the London and this story you're gonna want to listen 226 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: closely and then put a pin in it so it'll 227 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: come back to haunt us later or not to us. 228 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: But you know, the show the world party. But the 229 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: London Daily Mail hired an actor, a director and a 230 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: big game hunter. This is a great name all rolled 231 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 1: into one. Yeah, Marmaduke weatherell great name and said, listen, dude, 232 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,599 Speaker 1: you have all these skills. You are a director and 233 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: actor and you know your way around the forest and 234 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: the lake, so get out there and see what you 235 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: can do. He said, that was the most bizarre pep 236 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: talk anyone's ever given. He's like, I know all these things, right, 237 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: but I appreciate it anyway. So the yeah, the Daily 238 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: Mail sent them up there to figure out what was 239 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: going on. This was December. Did you say yeah, December 240 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: of thirty three. So um, and again this whole thing 241 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: started in April and we'd been building and building and 242 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: then by the time so the Daily Mail, they were like, 243 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: you know, basically like the Daily Mail is now from 244 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: what I understand, Like super you know what I'm saying, 245 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: it's the Daily Mail. I don't really think you have 246 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: to put it in any other way. Well, are they 247 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: like a tabloid? Oh yeah, yeah for sure? Okay, I 248 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: mean I always get the those UK rags confused on 249 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: which ones are like, you know, tabloid in which ones 250 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: are reputable. They were printing clickbait before computers were around, 251 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: before they even knew what that was. And they're like, 252 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: why are we calling it clickbait? Yeah, like what's a mouse? 253 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: They called it thumbait? Right, Actually they called them. Remember 254 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: we talked about this in our tabloid episode. They called 255 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: it like like, hey, Martha's stories like stories so amazing 256 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: that they got like the reader to say, hey, Martha, 257 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: listen to this. Do we do a show on tabloids? 258 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: You don't remember? No, we did. It was a good one. Wow, 259 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: I know it's we should just sit around and listen 260 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: to old episodes sometime refresh our memory. Yeah, okay, so 261 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: one of the else shows up to lock Ans among 262 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: like a lot of pomp and circumstances. The Daily Mail 263 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: didn't like just quietly send them there. They really promoted 264 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: this and he starts searching and within just a few 265 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: days he found something. He found tracks in the mud 266 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: around locked Ass and he did his measurements because again 267 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: remember he's a big game tracker, outdoorsman, and he he 268 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: and an actor, a fit not a not a successful actor. 269 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: I get the impression that he was like, um, kind 270 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: of an Edwood type actor director. Okay, um, but he uh, 271 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: he calculated that the animal that made these tracks with 272 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: like I think four toad tracks in the mud was 273 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: at least twenty feet long. And this happened at December. 274 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: He took plaster casts and he sent them off to 275 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: the UM, the Royal Museum, you know, the Natural History 276 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: Museum in London, to to be analyzed just as Christmas 277 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: set in. Yeah. So, even though this was potentially the 278 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: you know, greatest find zoological find in the world in 279 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: world history, they were like, we still have to go 280 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: on break right on holiday. Bob Cratchett commands it. Everyone 281 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: waited they did come back from holiday and uh, you know, 282 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: monster hunters were all over London, that are all over 283 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: Lochness and they were super excited. And then in January 284 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: zoologist said, um, bad news. Not only is this the 285 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: footprint of a hippopotamus, because that would have been pretty 286 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: amazing in and of itself, right, right, yeah, like, what's 287 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 1: hippopotamus doing there? Right? But they said no, no, no, 288 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: it was a taxidermy hippopotamus foot and it was probably 289 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: like an ashtray or an umbrella. Stand right. Somebody just 290 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: walks around and went foot here, footprint here, footprint there, 291 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,479 Speaker 1: and Weatherell fell for it. So I there's a question 292 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: of whether he was the perpetrator of the fraud or 293 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: whether he was, you know, the victim of this fraud. 294 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: But he fell for it, and he was humiliated. I 295 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: didn't see any actual like articles, but apparently the Daily Mail, 296 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: the paper that sent him up there, said like humiliated 297 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: him in there in their coverage of the whole thing. 298 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: So he retreated from public view. He was humiliated. And 299 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: don't forget Duke weather Eye he comes back later. Yeah, 300 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: And not only did they ruin his good name or 301 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: his mediocre name. At least, the whole incident just sort 302 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: of put a damper on Nessie for a few decades. Yeah, Yeah, 303 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: kind of brought out the crackpots and anyone that had 304 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: any sightings they would be dismissed and said, to know, 305 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: it's an illusion. It was a duck or a or 306 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 1: a log floating, or a swimming deer or something, and 307 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: just it sort of put a big dent in this 308 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: being taken seriously for a long time. The impression that 309 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: I have is that the world was kind of like 310 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: fool me once, you know, like they gotten all wrapped 311 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: up in this whole thing, and then you know it 312 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: was proved to be a big fraud. So everybody just 313 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: abandoned the Lochness Monster. Well most people did, anybody who 314 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: seemed legitimate, especially if you were a scientist. The Lochness 315 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,959 Speaker 1: Monster was not real. Yeah, But that did not stop 316 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: just regular human beings and monster hunters to not go 317 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: there anymore. They were still into it. I think there 318 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: was a book in nineteen seventy four that said more 319 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: than four thousand people, you know, have said that they 320 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: saw something. That's a lot of people, and not only that, 321 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: but all of the or a lot of the eyewitness 322 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: accounts were really similar, and a lot of them were 323 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: from people that were you know, there was a Nobel 324 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: Prize winner. There were scientists and teachers and lawyers and priests, like, 325 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't just a bunch of kooks like you and 326 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: I out there. Yeah, there was a guy named doctor 327 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: Richard Cinch. He was a biochemist who won the Nobel 328 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: Prize who said he saw something, and like you said, 329 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: they kind of bore a similar similarities in these reports, 330 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: Like there were humps, at least one or two humps 331 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: rising above the surface, like an overturned boat. Maybe it 332 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: was an overturned boat. Maybe. So a lot of people 333 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: reported something with a long, slender neck and a small 334 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: head rising out of the surface, rising out from the lake. 335 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: And there was this local doctor named Constance White who 336 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: was I think she might have lived in Inverness. She 337 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: lived around Lochness, and she had a lot of friends 338 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: who had come forward and said, you know, I've seen this, 339 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: and people just shouted and laughed at them and they 340 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: were humiliated themselves, and she said, enough of this, I 341 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: believe there's something there. I think these accounts are similar 342 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: enough that there's really kind of lends some credence to 343 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: this idea, and she started collecting all these different reports 344 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: and published the reports along with sketches from the people 345 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: who had who's made these reports, into a book called 346 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: More Than a Legend in nineteen fifty seven. And it 347 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: took the Lochness frivolity and turned it back into a 348 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: potentially scientifically studiable thing. Yeah, for sure, it didn't. It's 349 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: not like it fully legitimized it, but it kind of 350 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: reminded people like, hey, it's not just a bunch of 351 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: crackpots out here making stuff up, Like there have been 352 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,719 Speaker 1: some reputable people who've very similar things, and here they 353 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: are all collected in one space. So that inspired more 354 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 1: people to namely the scientific community, to get involved. Yeah, 355 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: and it happened in about a ten year period. There 356 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: were four different expeditions from Oxford, Cambridge, University of Birmingham 357 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: and the BBC that all went out there and did 358 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: their own expeditions and investigations with sonar, which was a 359 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: new I guess a newer technology at the time that 360 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: allows you to use sound to search underwater for something, 361 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: and it basically was a little bit better than someone 362 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: sitting in their lawn chair with binoculars for hours on end, 363 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: which is what people were mostly doing. I guess in 364 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: that first wave in the early thirties, these what they 365 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: had right. But then so Constance White. White's book also 366 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: kind of gave rise to a second wave of Lockness 367 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: hunters inspired a lot of people. There was the Lochness 368 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: Investigation Bureau, which set up shop on the shore of 369 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: the loch and kept watch and led investigations and expeditions 370 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: for like a decade, I think from sixty two to 371 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,719 Speaker 1: seventy two. And there's no that's not Bad's pretty spending 372 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: ten years looking for the Lockness Monster. I think you've 373 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: you've established your bona feed, as you know. And then 374 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: Tim Dinsdale was a He was an aeronautical engineer and 375 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 1: he became kind of a famous Lockness hunter because on 376 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: his after reading more than a Legend that Constant White book, 377 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: he was inspired to go hunt for the Lochness Monster, 378 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: and on his first time out he caught something very 379 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: weird moving away from him on the loch in on film. 380 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: Have you seen it? Yeah, I've looked at all this stuff. 381 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: Where do you think? I think some of it looks 382 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: very interesting. They didn't stale film in particular. Looks pretty 383 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: interesting to me too. Yeah, agreed, Ye, I'm not going 384 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: to go out there. Well, let's just save I'll save 385 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: my judgment save it. Um. But in the like I said, 386 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: over the years, as technology got better, UM, they started 387 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: using this technology. In the nineteen seventies, there was in 388 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: a series of expeditions UM sponsored by Academy of Applied 389 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: Science out of a Boston and they were the first 390 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: people to combine sonar because they're all already using that, 391 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: but sonar and underwater photography under the leadership of a 392 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: guy named Robert Rines, who was I love this description, 393 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: a lawyer trained in physics, right, and they were using 394 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: side scan sonar, which we've talked about before a couple 395 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,959 Speaker 1: of times over the years. Yeah, maybe pressure hunting or something, 396 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: Okay or Barbie, I don't remember one of those. But 397 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: here here's the idea there is you combine side scan 398 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: sonar with and time it along with your underwater photography 399 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: and if you get something a picture snapped at the 400 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: same time, you get a let's call it a ding. 401 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: I don't know what sound it makes, but I assume 402 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: a side scan sonar dings something swims by, well, no 403 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: side scan sonar, so it makes it sends out a 404 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: ping or whatever, but it gets echoes back from all 405 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: the different stuff that bounces off of at different rates, 406 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: and it creates basically like a picture of the floor 407 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: of the or of the lake. Yeah. I just meant 408 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: a ding to alert you. I was just oh, I 409 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: got you. I see like a typewriter, right, or a microwave. Yeah. 410 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: But the point is if you have those two things 411 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: that like, hey, we got a real picture and then 412 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: a side scan sonar picture at the same time, then 413 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: it has a little bit more credibility all of a sudden. Yeah, 414 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: and I mean it really did They hit something on 415 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: in June nineteen seventy five or sometime in nineteen seventy five, 416 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,479 Speaker 1: they had this system going and at the same time 417 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: that the sonar was showing some at least one very 418 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: large object moving, they were getting photographs that, when they developed, 419 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: showed some very odd stuff. Yeah. And this is this 420 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: underwater photography. It's got a strobe light that's where so 421 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: you can you know, see stuff because it is very 422 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: dark and this thing like if you look at these photos, 423 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, it looks like a big triangular sort of 424 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: diamond shaped fin or a flipper on a big kind 425 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: of creature. But you know, it's not super detailed, but 426 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: it does look like something different and interesting. Did you 427 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: see the other ones that came out of that batch. Yeah, 428 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: I mean it all looks different and interesting. Like I'm 429 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: not saying like, oh my god, look at that monster, 430 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: because I don't know enough about what sort of you know, 431 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: weird fish might be in that lake, but it definitely 432 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 1: looks weird and enough to prompt attention. I think it 433 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: looks like a big bellied, long necked sea monster. To me, 434 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: that's what it looks like. All right, you use the 435 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: word monster. I was trying to avoid that, but well, 436 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: it looks like a monster of the sea. So so, 437 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: I mean, this was a big deal when they got these. 438 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: This was these were respected scientists carrying out a sober, 439 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: level headed expedition. They were drinking a little bit, let's 440 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: be honest. There was sober ish, level headed ish expedition. 441 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 1: And when they came came with these, uh, these pictures, 442 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: when they developed them, like they again, the world was like, 443 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: all right, fool me once, wait a few years, let's 444 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: go again. That's the that's the mantra of the world, 445 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,479 Speaker 1: especially in the seventies. Like, I love that this happened 446 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy five because world was like, which stories 447 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: should we pay attention to today? The haunted House in 448 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: Amityville or the Locknet monster photos or the Bermuda Triangle. Yeah, 449 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: I love the seventies. They were the greatest decade ever, 450 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: so great, and then they're like, who cares about any 451 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: of that, Let's go to a key party. So Rins 452 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: he had his distinction on his project was important because 453 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: he had a couple of While he was fairly reputable, 454 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: he had a couple of really reputable scientists that backed 455 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: him up. This guy named Harold Doc Edgerton from MIT, 456 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: and he's the inventor of side scan sonar. So I 457 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: think he probably totally loved that they were using his equipment. 458 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: He said, well, at first he was not He was 459 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: not on board, which makes his finally coming on board 460 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: even more legitimate. He was like, no, I think you're 461 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: a crackpot. And then he saw that, so he's like, 462 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: this is this seems legitimate? He said, it looks like 463 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,199 Speaker 1: a flipper of a monster. He said, it looks like 464 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: a monster of the sea. And then this other guy, 465 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: Sir Peter Scott, who was a naturalist, and they both 466 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: got behind Rins, which was a very big deal, so 467 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: much so that Ryans was actually able to present evidence 468 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: at the House of Commons in London, and people were 469 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: starting to take this like really seriously. Yeah, and here 470 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 1: in the States, that would be like testifying before Congress 471 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: about the sea monster that you found in you know, 472 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: Lake Havasu or something like that. Yeah, I'm sure there's 473 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: one in Lake Havasu. Oh, I'm sure there's several. Which 474 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: is great that we said that, because now we're going 475 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: to get a million emails telling us to the name 476 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: of the monster in Lake Havasu. It's the have asous monster. 477 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: Is that ungrateful to say something like that. I don't 478 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: think so. I think it was. I'm gonna take it 479 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: out right, so I don't. I don't know if he 480 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: actually presented the findings or not, but they definitely wrote up. 481 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: Sir Peter Scott and Robert Ryans wrote up a paper, 482 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: an academic paper. It wasn't pure viewed, but it was 483 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: published in the journal Nature, which is I mean, they're 484 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: two big English language science journal Science and Nature, and 485 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: they got there's published in one and it was in 486 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: the opinions of comments actions. Sure, but Science letter to 487 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: the editor, basically the crackpot corner. Yeah, but the the 488 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: the I mean Nature published it. They could have been like, no, 489 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: this is ridiculous. And these guys they published this paper. 490 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: From what I can tell earnestly, like they meant it right. 491 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: So um, in this paper they gave Nessie its scientific 492 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: binomial name. Yeah, and this is after we should say 493 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: that the naturalist mister Scott said, oh, by the way, 494 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: not only are we do we believe what Rhymes is doing, 495 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,239 Speaker 1: but I think that NeSSI is a plessy assur um. 496 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: This is a marine reptile that we thought when extinct 497 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: sixty five million years ago. Well, that did not help 498 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: the case. No, it didn't. And I think I get 499 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: the impression that Rhymes was kind of like, we didn't 500 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: talk about you saying this publicly, but um, Scott kind 501 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: of jumped the gun from what I understand, But he 502 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: did say that, and that really turned a lot of 503 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: these scientific establishment types that Ryan's was trying to basically 504 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,479 Speaker 1: get on board to try to find the Lochness monster 505 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: turned them off. Yeah. But Nevertheless, they did give it 506 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: that name. Necessitarists Rombo tereks Man. If you ever are 507 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: at a trivia night and they ask you what that is, 508 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: I will be so ashamed of every single one of 509 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: you if you missed that, that would be a tough 510 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: tribute question. Though. That's a great one, though, Yeah, Necesitarists 511 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: Rambo Terris as the Lochness Monster. Yeah, I think that's 512 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: one of the better trivia questions I've ever heard. Right, well, 513 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: I'll trivia masters out there to take note, use it 514 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: at will and thank us afterward and direct people to 515 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: stuff you should know on the iHeart Radio podcast app 516 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,479 Speaker 1: or you listen to podcasts. Well done, Chuck, I think 517 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: you're gonna get like a gift card from Target or 518 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: something for that. So they give it this name. Mainly, 519 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: it's not like they're like, hey, let's just name this thing. 520 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: They did it really because there was a new conservation 521 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: law in the UK that said a species won't be 522 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: protected if it does not have a buy no meal 523 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: and a common name. So they said, just to cover ourselves, 524 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: just in case Nessie's a real thing, let's go ahead 525 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: and name name this lady. Right So again, after that, 526 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: after Sir Peter Scott said it's a dinosaur, which again, 527 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: it's not the most far fetched thing in the world. 528 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: It's like the Cela canth was thought to be extinct 529 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: for tens of millions of years before started finding them 530 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: off of the coast of Africa, so it's not entirely 531 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: out of the realm of possibility. It wasn't like this 532 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: guy was like, well it's aliens. Obviously, it's a giant alien. 533 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: It's a sea alien. Yeah, like there was From what 534 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: I understand, they were ernest and they were trying to 535 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: do this legitimate, although one of the MP's in Scotland 536 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,239 Speaker 1: pointed out that necessitarists ramba terics is an anagram for 537 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: monster hoax by Sir Peter s and for pretty good 538 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: for many years, everybody's like, well, yeah, Scott at least 539 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: hadn't bought into it. But he responded to this years 540 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: later with like, do you really think that if I, 541 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: if I had wanted to do that, I couldn't have 542 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: also fit in the Cott in scott And he didn't 543 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: really answer the question. But I think the impression that 544 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: I got from like actual Lochness monster hunters is that 545 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: he was he was earnest and the anagram was unintended. Yeah, 546 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: that's pretty I mean, I don't think that was the deal, 547 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: but it is pretty interesting that you can form that 548 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: anagram spec It is pretty interesting. Monster hoax by Sir 549 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: Peter s that's pretty specific. But I mean, what a betrayal, 550 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: because Robert Ryans was a true believer and if that's 551 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: what Scott was doing, he was one of the bigger 552 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: puts is the British naturalist community ever ever produced? Which, 553 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: by the way, did you get that email about Yiddish? No, huh, 554 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: apparently putts is a very bad word. Oh oh is 555 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: it like Fanny in the UK? Now, it's just uh, 556 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: this nice lady wrote us about Yiddish words and sayings 557 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: and she's like, most people don't realize that schmunk and 558 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: putts are not the nicest words. What does putts mean? 559 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: And like American English, we'll discuss offline. Okay, I really 560 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: want to know. I'm not sure. I can wait. That's okay, 561 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: you can wait. So can you make some hand gestures. 562 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: I'll give you the initials. Okay. So in the eighties 563 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: things started to ramp up a little bit more. There 564 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: were more sonar hits coming around in nineteen eighty seven 565 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: and the late eighties a one million pound they spent 566 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: a million bucks for a week long exploration called Operation 567 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: Deep scam In and this was once again the Lockness Project, 568 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: who were science based what they were doing though, and 569 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: I thought this was interesting. They weren't like, listen, we're 570 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: searching for nessie. They says, what we're gonna do is 571 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: just go search for anomalies with the sonar and see 572 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: if we can start ruling some things out. Yeah, and 573 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: they used like twenty four boats from what I understand 574 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 1: to like sweep in unison, using side sidescans owner the 575 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: whole lock like at once. They were just going slowly 576 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,919 Speaker 1: back and forth over the lock. And remember that side 577 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: scan sonar creates like a picture and image of the 578 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: lake floor, and so they were really coming up with 579 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: some good stuff. Most of the stuff they found was 580 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: stationary objects, so obviously that's not it. But they did 581 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 1: find three things that from what I understand to this day, 582 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:57,280 Speaker 1: have never been fully explained. That we're obviously moving targets 583 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: that were large that they just don't they don't know 584 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,399 Speaker 1: they were, They have no idea. Yeah, pretty interesting, yep, 585 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: and this carried over, of course, into the early nineties. 586 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: Another BBC guy named Nicholas Witchell organized project how do 587 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: you pronounce that Urquhart? I was going with er Quart. 588 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,720 Speaker 1: Oh Erquart, I like that, I do too, silent h. 589 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: But also the Qua Sure project Erquart, which was a 590 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: real scientific in the first one scientific extensive study of 591 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: the biology and geology of the lake itself. Yeah, Nicholas Witchell, 592 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: he was leading this thing. They weren't looking for the monster, 593 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: but he was one of the He was that guy 594 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,479 Speaker 1: who wrote that nineteen seventy four book about the monster. Yeah. 595 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: People kind of come and go in this story. It's interesting, h. 596 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: It really is. It's got it's a tight knot of 597 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 1: of like a ball of worms writhing together or something. 598 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: But he did while he was doing the study of 599 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: biology and geology, he did find another underwater moving to 600 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: our get followed it for a few minutes, lost it. 601 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,320 Speaker 1: But it was just yet another kind of unexplained large 602 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: moving mass. And there was a sonar expert named Arnie 603 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 1: Carr who was a board that expedition, who said, I 604 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 1: would say that this was biological in nature, obviously was moving. 605 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: It was about fifteen feet long about the size of 606 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: a small whale. Yeah, so we shouldn't compare it to things. 607 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: They're like, it sort of looked like an over turned boat, 608 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: and they're like, all right, well maybe it was, or 609 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: the the fin looked like a large ore, all right, 610 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: or a small otter. Like stop saying that, right, all 611 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: you're doing is making me think, well, yeah, that's probably 612 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: what it is. Then, Yeah, but it probably wasn't a 613 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: small whale. I don't know. Is it a sea monster. 614 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: It's a it's a monster of the sea. Okay, so 615 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,479 Speaker 1: um again, I don't know if you guys are paying 616 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: enough attention, but just slowly over the years, people have 617 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: continued to show up at lock nests launch expeditions come 618 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 1: up with some things that couldn't be explained, and the 619 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: most recent one happened in twenty sixteen when a group 620 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: of researchers from Norway showed up to the lock to 621 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: explore under an expedition and try to find the Locknest monster, 622 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 1: and they actually found something using side scan sonar. Yeah, plate, 623 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: did you see the picture. Yeah, it looks like a 624 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: sea monster just kind of laying on the bottom of 625 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: the lake there. That's exactly what it looked like so 626 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: they were I don't know if they thought, well, jeez, 627 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: I mean, did it die? Is it sleeping? What's going 628 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: on with this thing? Because it wasn't moving, And I 629 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,919 Speaker 1: don't know how they figured it out, But it turns 630 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: out that it was a prop from a movie from 631 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,880 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, Yeah, the Private Life of Sherlock Holms 632 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: Billy Wilder movie. And if you look at this monster 633 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: in that movie, it looks like the Locknest Monster. And 634 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: when they were done, they just basically let the air 635 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: out of the humps and sank it. Yep, and it 636 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: just laid there for like fifty years. Oh man. But 637 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,720 Speaker 1: the reason, the reason why it looked like the Lochness 638 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: Monster even so much that just the sonar image of 639 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: this thing lying on its side at the bottom of 640 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: the lake, this prop looked like the Lochness Monster is 641 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,359 Speaker 1: because we all have the exact same image of the 642 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,320 Speaker 1: Lochness Monster. And what a lot of people don't realize 643 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: is that that image comes from one specific photograph that 644 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 1: was published in nineteen thirty four, and we will talk 645 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: about that after this message break. All right, So you 646 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: left us with quite a cliffhanger. The very famous dare 647 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: I say infamous photo of NeSSI that looks like a 648 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: someone with her finger sticking out of the water and 649 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: their arm. Really, is that what it looks like to you? Sure? 650 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: It looks like a monster of the sea to me. 651 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: It is the most famous picture of the Lochness Monster, 652 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: which is interesting because I think that stuff from nineteen 653 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: seventy five looks way more realistic and you know, potentially provable. Well, 654 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: this was nineteen thirty four. Give him a break, no, 655 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: I know, And that's why it took the world by 656 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: storm because it's the oldest one I think. And that's 657 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 1: if you type in Lochness Monster image, this is the 658 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,439 Speaker 1: first thing that you're gonna see. Yeah, and it's it's 659 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,439 Speaker 1: why everybody's seen. It's like the first thing they teach 660 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: you in school is they show everybody a picture of 661 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: the Lochness monsters. Say this is the Lochness Monster. Yeah, 662 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: now onto reading, you know. So this picture's origin was 663 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,320 Speaker 1: it first showed up on the cover of the London 664 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 1: Daily Mail in nineteen thirty four. This was the year 665 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: after Duke Wetherell had had been kind of denounced and 666 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: humiliated and I mean very quickly after that whole thing, 667 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: this picture appears and even though people had said like, no, 668 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,759 Speaker 1: this was not a this thing's the lockness, monsters not real, 669 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: this picture really kind of kept interesting going, like the 670 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: world didn't just completely walk away from it, like you said, 671 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: like everyday people were still interested in it. And it 672 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 1: was largely because of this picture that was published in 673 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four, right, So the photo has a pretty 674 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: good story in and of itself. It was sold to 675 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: the Daily Mail by a surgeon from London named Ark 676 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: Kenneth Wilson. He said, I took this picture, saw a 677 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: big commotion out in the water, and I saw a 678 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,759 Speaker 1: sea monster, and it took a photo. And everyone was like, 679 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: this guy's a surgeon. Why would this guy make this 680 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: thing up. It's got to be real. Skeptics are like, 681 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: there's no way this thing's real. Of course it's a hoax. 682 00:40:54,640 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: And it took what fifty years, basically fifty one years 683 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 1: until they actually did scientific analysis of this thing. Yeah, 684 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: a man named Stuart Campbell and an article in the 685 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: British Journal of Photography almost a psychology, Nope, photography, it's 686 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: a little different. He concluded that he looked at it 687 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: did a big study and said, all right, this thing 688 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: looks real, but it's two to three feet long, and 689 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 1: I think it's a bird or an otter, and I 690 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,840 Speaker 1: think that surgeon knew that right. But the reason, the 691 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: whole reason why so many people were like, this is 692 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,279 Speaker 1: a real picture is because the guy who supposedly took it, R. 693 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,280 Speaker 1: Kenneth Wilson, right, like you said, he was a doctor, 694 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: and so the whole world was like, well, no, this 695 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: guy's a doctor. Of course he's believable, because doctors have 696 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: never done anything wrong, right, Apparently no one had seen 697 00:41:51,680 --> 00:42:00,720 Speaker 1: the nick yet, thank you. So finally been in nineteen 698 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: eighty four when this British Journal Photography analysis was published 699 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: that was mostly kind of like, oh I knew it 700 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,840 Speaker 1: to people who already thought it was a hoax, to 701 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: the rest of the world, and to a lot of 702 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:15,320 Speaker 1: Lochness Hunt monster hunters like that did nothing to delegitimize 703 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: it again because R. Kenneth Wilson was a doctor, so 704 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: of course he wouldn't have perpetrated a fraud. And then finally, 705 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four, there was a guy who is 706 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: a Lochness monster hunter slash fanatic named Alistair Boyd, and 707 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four he basically dropped a bomb on 708 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,800 Speaker 1: the world and said, the surgeon's photo is a hundred 709 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,439 Speaker 1: percent fake, and I have this story that explains how. 710 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,800 Speaker 1: And he basically said, no, it's even among lockness monster 711 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:52,880 Speaker 1: hunters like himself. The surgeon's photo has been basically debunked 712 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: by this story that he came up with. Right, So 713 00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: Boyd and his wife, because you know, I'm sure Boyd 714 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: was like, Hey, this is my new crazy passion, so 715 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 1: you have to come with me. She rolled her eyes 716 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,399 Speaker 1: and said okay. So they teamed up, and they did 717 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: have a large animal sighting in nineteen seventy nine, so 718 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: they were into it. It's not like they're out to 719 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: debunk this thing. I think they were trying to bunk it. 720 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,880 Speaker 1: They did some research behind the photo. He came across 721 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,320 Speaker 1: an old newspaper clipping and the son of remember we 722 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: said to put a pin and Duke Weatherill Marmaduke who 723 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: was remember famously duped supposedly with that hippo foot and 724 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,319 Speaker 1: sold out by the Daily Mail. So they found an 725 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: old clipping which his son Ian or Ian I'm not 726 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,320 Speaker 1: sure he pronounces it, said that that photo was a hoax. 727 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,399 Speaker 1: And Boyd was reading this article in nineteen seventy five 728 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,239 Speaker 1: and a couple of very important little details kind of 729 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: stuck out to him. Yeah, the so Ian Weatherell had 730 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 1: said that there was a guy named Maurice Chambers involved 731 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,880 Speaker 1: in the hoax. And Maurice Chambers is the guy that R. 732 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,360 Speaker 1: Kenneth Wilson said originally when the first that photo first 733 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: came out sixty years before, Maurice Chambers was who he 734 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 1: was going to visit. So it would be really weird 735 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,080 Speaker 1: that Ian Weatherall would know who Maurice Chambers was, and 736 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 1: that our Kenneth Wilson, doctor Wilson would know him as well. 737 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,200 Speaker 1: That was one thing. Then the other thing is the 738 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: picture he described was a version of that photograph that 739 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: was only published once, right, because it's the one that 740 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 1: he described showed a little bit of land, and the 741 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: picture that we've all seen had the land cropped out. Yeah. Pretty, 742 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,879 Speaker 1: I mean it's a detail that not many people would 743 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,319 Speaker 1: have noticed. But Boyd was like, hey, this thing was 744 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 1: only published once in nineteen thirty four, So this guy 745 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 1: either has a freakishly good and weird memory, or he's 746 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 1: the one that took the picture to begin with, because 747 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,640 Speaker 1: that detailed no one else would have known. It's not 748 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,200 Speaker 1: that's not like proof positive or anything like that, but 749 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,479 Speaker 1: it's they're pretty pretty good points to kind of start 750 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: to suspect. So it was enough to get him to 751 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,480 Speaker 1: go try to find out more. Because remember this was 752 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,080 Speaker 1: the eighties and the article was from the seventies, and 753 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 1: apparently people hadn't paid much attention. So we went to 754 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,839 Speaker 1: go find Ian Weatherall and found out that he was dead. 755 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,760 Speaker 1: So he went and found another guy who was mentioned 756 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: in the article, Christian Spurling, who was Duke Weatherall's stepson. 757 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,239 Speaker 1: He had been involved as well, and apparently, according to 758 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 1: Alister Boyd, when he went and tracked down Christian Spurling, 759 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: Spurling confessed to him, Yeah, ninety three years old. It 760 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,879 Speaker 1: sounds like a sort of a deathbed thing. He was like, 761 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 1: it was us the whole time. He's like, also, I 762 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,360 Speaker 1: have something else to tell you. I hit a person 763 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,839 Speaker 1: with my car and drove off. Once They're like no, no no, no, 764 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 1: who cares. Yeah, let's talk about this picture. So here's 765 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 1: the deal, he said, because of the way that Duke, 766 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,359 Speaker 1: I guess step stepdad that was a step dad. Yeah, 767 00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,720 Speaker 1: Duke was a step dad. So the way my stepdad 768 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,839 Speaker 1: was by the Daily Mail and sold out and made 769 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 1: to look foolish, he went out to get even it 770 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,239 Speaker 1: really stuck in his cross and get revenge. So he 771 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,560 Speaker 1: enlisted his son and myself when I was a young boy, 772 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 1: to go out build a model monster onto a toy 773 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: submarine and staged this photograph which included you know, they 774 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,360 Speaker 1: included the background and part of the you know, not 775 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 1: the zoomed in look. You can't really tell that it's 776 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 1: lock NEETs. But in the original photo, like we said, 777 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:32,320 Speaker 1: you could see it, and they did that on purpose 778 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 1: as proof that it was Locknets. Yeah. And then they 779 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,600 Speaker 1: got through Boor's chambers the Common Friend. They somehow persuaded 780 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,399 Speaker 1: doctor Wilson to take the film, have it developed and 781 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:47,480 Speaker 1: then pretend like he had taken the picture and sell 782 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: it to the Daily Mail. Basically act as a front 783 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,680 Speaker 1: man to this whole ruse. Again, probably the greatest front 784 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,760 Speaker 1: man you could have ever got, because the whole world 785 00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,600 Speaker 1: for decades was like, Nope, this guy wouldn't have been 786 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,240 Speaker 1: party to a fraud. And he was party to a fraud. 787 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,440 Speaker 1: And I could not find any explanation for why he 788 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 1: would have been because I mean they call it the 789 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:12,760 Speaker 1: surgeon's photo rather than the Wilson photo because he really 790 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,480 Speaker 1: wanted to back away from it, which I think legitimized 791 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,080 Speaker 1: it more in some people's minds. Yeah, but he I 792 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 1: have no idea why he joined up on this this hoax, 793 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,520 Speaker 1: but he did. I wonder if he had something on him. Well, 794 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,319 Speaker 1: a lot of people actually say they still don't buy it. 795 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,520 Speaker 1: They still don't buy that that that that it doesn't 796 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 1: make sense that Wilson would have been a part of 797 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 1: this that some people, even one guy cited a toy expert, 798 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: Yeah said a submarine toy toy submarine from the thirties 799 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,960 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have have, you know, done the trick. Yeah, 800 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,480 Speaker 1: that sounds like the worst kind of internet pet ant, right, 801 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: Chase close. Actually, toy submarines would have looked more like this, right. Um. 802 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,640 Speaker 1: But sure, people have tried to poke various holes in 803 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,319 Speaker 1: the story that it's a fake over the year, which 804 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,280 Speaker 1: is interesting too, but it's really saying something though. Also 805 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: to keep in mind, Alistair Boyd, the guy who who 806 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,800 Speaker 1: told the world the story of how this this famous 807 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,879 Speaker 1: photo of the Lockness Monster was hoaxed. He's like, that 808 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,040 Speaker 1: does nothing to his belief. He's like, I'm sure as Yeah, 809 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,200 Speaker 1: I'm more sure of then I'm sure of anything. That 810 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,479 Speaker 1: there's a something in lockness. And I think he said 811 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,279 Speaker 1: something like he would if he were a wealthy man, 812 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,440 Speaker 1: he would spend the rest of his life trying to 813 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,040 Speaker 1: catch another glimpse of it. Yeah, because like we said, 814 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,480 Speaker 1: you know, it kind of gets under your skin when 815 00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:37,120 Speaker 1: when when you like get into the lockness monster. So 816 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties, Um, here are some more explanations, 817 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 1: because here's the deal. Like they're like, you have to 818 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:53,320 Speaker 1: prove something exists, not disprove or weight, not prove that it. 819 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,360 Speaker 1: Like the burden of proof should be on people that 820 00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:00,879 Speaker 1: say this is a thing. Yeah, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Yeah, 821 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:02,839 Speaker 1: so it is. There have been people over the years 822 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: that have tried to explain it as other things, like 823 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,919 Speaker 1: maybe people are seeing something, but what they're really seeing 824 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:13,280 Speaker 1: is blank. A man named Steve Feltham in the nineteen nineties. 825 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,680 Speaker 1: He's one of these guys that you know kind of 826 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,319 Speaker 1: became a monitor but obsessed. I'm not going to say that, 827 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,400 Speaker 1: but no, you could call him upssed came so interested 828 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,560 Speaker 1: that he quit his job and did this for thirty years. 829 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,200 Speaker 1: But he said, here's what I think it is. He said, 830 00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,279 Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a Wells catfish. And if 831 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,680 Speaker 1: you look up Wells w e Ls catfish, these are 832 00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, everyone knows catfish can get large, but these 833 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:41,879 Speaker 1: are European catfish that they look photoshops when you look 834 00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,080 Speaker 1: them up online and two or three people holding these 835 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:50,680 Speaker 1: things up in Europe. They get larger. They are huge, 836 00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,600 Speaker 1: like up to yeah, huge, like thirteen feet long, which, 837 00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,520 Speaker 1: by the way, don't forget that one Robert Ryan expedition 838 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,560 Speaker 1: found something that was the size of a small whale 839 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 1: about fifteen feet long. Yeah, okay, so this is what 840 00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:09,080 Speaker 1: But this is a This is a really big point 841 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,880 Speaker 1: that Steve Feltham is saying this. This guy left his 842 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,520 Speaker 1: life in the nineties, holds the Guinness record for the 843 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 1: longest search for Lochness, which is just dumb. It is Guinness. 844 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,200 Speaker 1: You know, they lost their way a long time ago. 845 00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:29,040 Speaker 1: They really did. So. Um Like he's saying, I don't 846 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:30,920 Speaker 1: think it's a I don't think it's a sea monster. 847 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,960 Speaker 1: I don't even think it's an undiscovered species. I think 848 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,279 Speaker 1: it's a giant catfish that lives in the lake. Um, 849 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,480 Speaker 1: that's a big deal that he's saying that, And that 850 00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:44,799 Speaker 1: seems to be a trend among Lochness enthusiasts that it's 851 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,839 Speaker 1: kind of turned a little more toward Hey, let's let's 852 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,560 Speaker 1: use our time and effort and energy to figuring out 853 00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,720 Speaker 1: how it's not a sea monster, which is a really 854 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,719 Speaker 1: big change and not just like Lochness monster searches. But 855 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,520 Speaker 1: it says a lot about the world too, you know. Yeah, 856 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,120 Speaker 1: And I think this Wells catfish would certainly explain all 857 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:13,759 Speaker 1: of those unexplained underwater moving side scan sonar images. Like 858 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,560 Speaker 1: they're not the most detailed things in the world. It's 859 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,359 Speaker 1: not a photograph, right, and those these things are, I mean, 860 00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,560 Speaker 1: just look up Wells catfish. They are tremendous and large, right. Okay, 861 00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:27,680 Speaker 1: So that's a pretty good explanation. A less good explanation 862 00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,759 Speaker 1: that we just have to mention though, is that the 863 00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,920 Speaker 1: elephant thing. Yeah, there's a Storian in two thousand and 864 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,800 Speaker 1: six who said, well, you know, I just came across 865 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,520 Speaker 1: some evidence that circuses traveling through Scotland used to stop 866 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,360 Speaker 1: and rest at Lochness and they would let the animals 867 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,359 Speaker 1: out to wander around. And elephants love to swim, which 868 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,879 Speaker 1: is the crossover thing between the episodes today, right, Yeah, 869 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:57,040 Speaker 1: elephants love to swim. And probably what some of these 870 00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,359 Speaker 1: sightings in the thirties were of the Lochness Monster were 871 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:05,879 Speaker 1: elephants swimming and locknests. Yeah, completely away from the rest 872 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,920 Speaker 1: of the circus, right, and the people that were resting 873 00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,719 Speaker 1: on the shoreline. And then after after he finished, he said, 874 00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:17,920 Speaker 1: but and here's the deal with all the supposed evidence 875 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,640 Speaker 1: over the years. It's you know, that stone carving, it's 876 00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:27,719 Speaker 1: manuscripts from pre medieval times, it's stories, like real documentary 877 00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,160 Speaker 1: evidence that these photos and things, none of them there's 878 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,440 Speaker 1: no hard evidence. They can all be interpreted as they 879 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 1: were explained away as different other things. Yeah, right. And 880 00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,719 Speaker 1: also there's like a there's a you know, that whole 881 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:45,359 Speaker 1: thing developed where what was it? Sir Peter Scott said 882 00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:50,000 Speaker 1: it was a plesiosaur, yeah, right, which is an extinct 883 00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,480 Speaker 1: marine reptile, not a dinosaur. It was a marine reptile. 884 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,080 Speaker 1: Other people said, no, it's a sore pod, which makes 885 00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,640 Speaker 1: even less sense because a sore pod was a terrestrial 886 00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,120 Speaker 1: dinosaur which had never taken to water, so what would 887 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,920 Speaker 1: it be doing in Lochness. But for decades, those were 888 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,640 Speaker 1: kind of the two conceptions that the Lochness monster was 889 00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:14,319 Speaker 1: a surviving sore pod or a surviving pleasiasaur. And there 890 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,319 Speaker 1: are a lot of problems with those. Number one, both 891 00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:21,680 Speaker 1: of those those types of animals when extinct tens of 892 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,759 Speaker 1: millions of years ago. Yeah, you could stop there had 893 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,360 Speaker 1: it not been for the cela canth, right, But we 894 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,480 Speaker 1: respect the celacanth and so we should explore further. And 895 00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,000 Speaker 1: then you have the problem of the fact that a 896 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:39,319 Speaker 1: sauropod is a terrestrial beast that breathes air, So while 897 00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,919 Speaker 1: it could swim, it would have to come up every 898 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:47,919 Speaker 1: few seconds and breathe. And ten reports a year over 899 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,200 Speaker 1: the history of Lochness, with you know, close to a 900 00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,000 Speaker 1: half a million people visiting every year, right, you would 901 00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,080 Speaker 1: see if this thing has to breathe every few seconds, 902 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,359 Speaker 1: there would be a lot more sightings than that. Yes, 903 00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,040 Speaker 1: And even if it were a pleasaur, which again is 904 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,480 Speaker 1: a marine reptile, they didn't have gills, so they would 905 00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,120 Speaker 1: have to come up for air too, So same thing, right, 906 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,239 Speaker 1: So the fact that it's actually kind of rare for 907 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:14,600 Speaker 1: a nesti sighting to be reported. That doesn't make any 908 00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:16,719 Speaker 1: sense because these things would have to come up quite 909 00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,399 Speaker 1: a bit. And we're also I mean, if it's just one, 910 00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:25,080 Speaker 1: that means that the thing survived seventy or sixty million years, 911 00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,879 Speaker 1: So it's a sixty million year old animal, which makes 912 00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,520 Speaker 1: zero sense. But some people say, well, no, no, you 913 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,520 Speaker 1: could have like a continuous line of these things, could you? 914 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:37,360 Speaker 1: Though probably not. And the reason why you couldn't is 915 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,640 Speaker 1: because the lock is just too small to sustain probably 916 00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:45,680 Speaker 1: even one pleasiosaur or one sore pod let alone that 917 00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,120 Speaker 1: I think Sir Peter Scott and Robert Ryan's in their 918 00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,840 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five paper estimated that you'd have to have 919 00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:59,520 Speaker 1: about thirty breeding individuals to continue a line. I guess 920 00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,160 Speaker 1: the lake. So there's just not enough food. There's something 921 00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,560 Speaker 1: like twenty two tons of biomass or fish for them 922 00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,160 Speaker 1: to eat, and that just would not be nearly enough. Yeah, 923 00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,000 Speaker 1: that's so if you have like, let's say thirty of 924 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:15,000 Speaker 1: these that are mating and breeding, creating more little nesties 925 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,759 Speaker 1: over the years, and a lake that small and now 926 00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,239 Speaker 1: it's deep, but it is a pretty small lake that 927 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,120 Speaker 1: if you have thirty of these things, let's say conservatively, 928 00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,239 Speaker 1: and they all have to come up and breathe, right, 929 00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,840 Speaker 1: every few seconds, you'd see little little fingers popping up 930 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,640 Speaker 1: out of the water all over the place, and at 931 00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:35,280 Speaker 1: some point there would be a bone or a scale, 932 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,920 Speaker 1: or a tooth or a whole body something washed up 933 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,000 Speaker 1: on the shore. And that's never happened. Yeah, and that's 934 00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,040 Speaker 1: a big problem. I mean, despite thousands of people saying 935 00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,719 Speaker 1: I saw something, and some of their stuff kind of 936 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:52,080 Speaker 1: bearing some similarities to one another, despite the films and 937 00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:57,040 Speaker 1: the photographs and all that, there's not any actual hard evidence, 938 00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:58,960 Speaker 1: like you said, like a bone or a tooth or 939 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,520 Speaker 1: something like that, that shows there's something in the lake 940 00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,800 Speaker 1: that it that is real. Yeah, my money on figuring 941 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:12,160 Speaker 1: this out. Last summer in twenty eighteen, researchers finally took 942 00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:18,320 Speaker 1: samples of environmental DNA DNA and this will tell you. 943 00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,880 Speaker 1: In fact, it did yield about five hundred million individual 944 00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:27,120 Speaker 1: DNA sequences. This will tell you basically anything that has 945 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,759 Speaker 1: lived in this lake. Right, maybe not forever, or is 946 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,680 Speaker 1: it forever? I don't know how far back it would go. 947 00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,920 Speaker 1: As long as it had viable DNA. Okay, it hadn't 948 00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:41,000 Speaker 1: hadn't deteriorated yet, so it could be like a whatever, 949 00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:45,000 Speaker 1: a scale of this monster. And this has worked before, 950 00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,839 Speaker 1: I believe it. You'll lit evidence of unknown life when 951 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:54,080 Speaker 1: they discovered in human species called the denis Ovans. Yeah, 952 00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:58,360 Speaker 1: this works. They have these five hundred million sequences and 953 00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,560 Speaker 1: now they're just plowing through them basically. Yeah, now they 954 00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:03,440 Speaker 1: have to they have to analyze them and see if 955 00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,359 Speaker 1: anything that hasn't been identified before it turns up. It's 956 00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,440 Speaker 1: pretty smart, it's pretty it's amazing. It's like they took 957 00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:13,600 Speaker 1: a photograph, a snapshot of all of the DNA that's 958 00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,200 Speaker 1: in locknest right now. It's a great idea. Yeah, and 959 00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,840 Speaker 1: then they're going to sort through it. It could yield something. 960 00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,240 Speaker 1: Who knows, Like I'm not saying like just saying that 961 00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,560 Speaker 1: the thing's not a plesiosaur or not a sauropod or 962 00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,480 Speaker 1: as not even a giant catfish or something like that, 963 00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,560 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that there's not it's not possible there's 964 00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,800 Speaker 1: something there that we don't know about yet. Yeah. But 965 00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:38,320 Speaker 1: if if this doesn't show anything, then it should well 966 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,120 Speaker 1: it never will close the case entirely but it will 967 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:43,560 Speaker 1: for a lot more people, I think. Yeah. And then 968 00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:47,120 Speaker 1: there's one other really big explanation against especially with the 969 00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,800 Speaker 1: whole like surviving dinosaur thing. The Lockness is only ten 970 00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,760 Speaker 1: thousand years old. It's not like it was around before, 971 00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,960 Speaker 1: you know, when the dinosaurs were swimming around and they 972 00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:00,400 Speaker 1: could have found their way into Lockness, and as as 973 00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:07,000 Speaker 1: as the sea levels lowered and Lochness was separated from 974 00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:10,680 Speaker 1: the sea, they got trapped there. Because Lochness didn't exist 975 00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:13,240 Speaker 1: until it was gouged out of the earth by the 976 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,680 Speaker 1: glaciers during the Last ice Age ten thousand years ago. 977 00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,160 Speaker 1: It's just too young for something like that. Too young, 978 00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,480 Speaker 1: too young, But Chuck, if they ever do find it, 979 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:26,680 Speaker 1: it will enjoy protection because they drew up like a 980 00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:31,320 Speaker 1: protective order. Basically, that says that any new species found 981 00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:35,640 Speaker 1: in the lake, including the Lochness monster, if found, the 982 00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,360 Speaker 1: people finding it can take a DNA sample and they 983 00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,320 Speaker 1: have to release it and they have to make sure 984 00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:44,400 Speaker 1: that it survives. They have to protect it. Pretty neat. 985 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,560 Speaker 1: It is neat. So do you think, real quick, do 986 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:53,720 Speaker 1: you think there's anything in there? No, so nothing we 987 00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:55,880 Speaker 1: don't know about. You don't think there's anything in there. Well, 988 00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:57,640 Speaker 1: it depends on if you count a giant catfish. It's 989 00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:59,920 Speaker 1: something we don't know about. I would say, we know 990 00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,800 Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, I think it. I think it's can 991 00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:08,760 Speaker 1: be explained. Okay, Um, have you seen incident at Lochness? No, 992 00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,040 Speaker 1: we talked about it in another another podcast I believe. 993 00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,080 Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, another episode. I can't remember when, but yeah, 994 00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,040 Speaker 1: we talked about it. I wonder what that would have 995 00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:20,720 Speaker 1: been about if you've been in the sea monsters one, 996 00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:24,400 Speaker 1: I bet. But that's the Werner Hurtzog like. It's worth 997 00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:28,480 Speaker 1: watching because Verner Hurtzog is on screen and anytime you 998 00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,800 Speaker 1: can get him talking or on screen, just just watch. 999 00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:36,040 Speaker 1: But it is, Uh, it is a mockumentary about Verner 1000 00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:40,720 Speaker 1: Hurtzog going to make a documentary about Lochness and then 1001 00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,120 Speaker 1: while they're there, it's a making of a making of 1002 00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,840 Speaker 1: and while they're there they see unexplained things. It's good though, Huh. 1003 00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:53,960 Speaker 1: It's it's a fun Friday night watch all right, Friday. 1004 00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,840 Speaker 1: But just to listen to Vana Hutzog, right, it's great. 1005 01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,560 Speaker 1: We have a vase of making it talk. Yeah, exactly. 1006 01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:05,840 Speaker 1: So is it on Netflix? Do you know? Or Amazon Prime? 1007 01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,520 Speaker 1: I have no idea. Well we'll find out, all right. Well, 1008 01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:10,160 Speaker 1: if you want to know more about locking you got 1009 01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:13,120 Speaker 1: anything else? Nope, If you want to know more about lockness, 1010 01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,560 Speaker 1: Monster Lockness, or Scotland or anything like that, go onto 1011 01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:20,680 Speaker 1: the internet. It's a really wide and deep resource, deeper 1012 01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:24,200 Speaker 1: than lockness even. And since I said that, it's time 1013 01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:28,760 Speaker 1: for a listener mail, this is a listener mail by 1014 01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,960 Speaker 1: way of our old friends at co ed Awesome. We 1015 01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,000 Speaker 1: heard from Anne, our friends as a reminder many years ago, 1016 01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:40,080 Speaker 1: when we were just a fledgling podcast, this group nonprofit 1017 01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:45,200 Speaker 1: called co ed Cooperative for Education. They invited us to 1018 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:50,080 Speaker 1: go to Guatemala, which we did, you me and Jerry, Yes, 1019 01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,960 Speaker 1: which was a crazy fun trip it was, and we 1020 01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:54,760 Speaker 1: learned a lot and it was very eye opening them 1021 01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:56,360 Speaker 1: any ways, and we've been kind of working with them 1022 01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,160 Speaker 1: unofficially since then, so they have a new drive going on. 1023 01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,160 Speaker 1: They are on a mission right now to keep eight 1024 01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,080 Speaker 1: thousand girls from dropping out of school in Guatemala. And 1025 01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,120 Speaker 1: as a reminder, they're kind of whole jam is to 1026 01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,280 Speaker 1: break the cycle of poverty in Guatemala and the way 1027 01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,640 Speaker 1: to do this is through education, because if not for education, 1028 01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:18,640 Speaker 1: then kids at a very young age stop going to 1029 01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,960 Speaker 1: school because they need to work and help support their family. Yep. 1030 01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,400 Speaker 1: So they're about halfway to that goal. Everyone to keep 1031 01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,240 Speaker 1: a thousand girls from dropping out of school in Guatemala 1032 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,120 Speaker 1: and forty one of the stuff you should know Army 1033 01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:35,120 Speaker 1: sponsored a student last year and that's great, but we 1034 01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,400 Speaker 1: need more of you in Guatemala. It is he started 1035 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,320 Speaker 1: the school year and there are still a few dozen 1036 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:44,320 Speaker 1: kids waiting to be sponsored. Sponsoring a student costs eighty 1037 01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:46,920 Speaker 1: dollars a month, or co ED will pay you with 1038 01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,800 Speaker 1: someone else if you can have sponsor someone at forty 1039 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,840 Speaker 1: dollars a month. And to meet the students who need sponsors, 1040 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,360 Speaker 1: which you can actually do online. Pretty powerful stuff. Just 1041 01:01:55,440 --> 01:02:00,280 Speaker 1: go to Cooperative for Education dot org. Yep. You've seen 1042 01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:02,320 Speaker 1: it with our own eyes that they do really good work, 1043 01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:05,360 Speaker 1: so we can vouch for them. And it's money well 1044 01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:07,960 Speaker 1: well donated for sure. Yeah. Or if you want to 1045 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:09,600 Speaker 1: go down there like we did, they still take groups 1046 01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,240 Speaker 1: down there twice a year and you can kind of, 1047 01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:14,680 Speaker 1: you know very much see it with your own eyeballs 1048 01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:20,000 Speaker 1: and it's very very good program and it's helping the 1049 01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,480 Speaker 1: whole population, but especially the young women. Of Guatemala, yep, 1050 01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,680 Speaker 1: and give them the website again, Chuck. It is Cooperative 1051 01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:31,080 Speaker 1: for Education dot org. Okay, so go check it out, everybody. 1052 01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:32,880 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, if you want to get in 1053 01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:36,000 Speaker 1: touch with us, you can go to stuff you Should 1054 01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,160 Speaker 1: Know dot com and check out our social links. And 1055 01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:40,640 Speaker 1: if you want to send an email to Chuck, Jerry 1056 01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:44,240 Speaker 1: and Me, you can address it to Stuff podcast at 1057 01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:50,040 Speaker 1: HowStuffWorks dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production 1058 01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,600 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the 1059 01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:56,920 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 1060 01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:57,680 Speaker 1: favorite shows.