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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how Stuff Looks dot Coming hither everybody,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. My name is Chris Poulette.

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Speaker 1: I'm an editor here at how Stuff works dot com,

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Speaker 1: and as usual, I have sitting next to me senior

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Speaker 1: writer Jonathan Strickland. Hid ho, Okay, that's a new one. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I like to bust on a new one once in

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Speaker 1: a while to keep you on your toes. All right, then,

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Speaker 1: uh so let's see. Um. Yeah, I got some special

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Speaker 1: to start this one off. You know what's coming. We

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Speaker 1: all know what's coming. Listen. It's listener mail, all right,

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Speaker 1: listener man, you got it. We're happy now, Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: oh all right, I'm just stunned. Yeah, I'm sure our

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Speaker 1: listeners are too. Okay. This one comes from Scotty. Scotty

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Speaker 1: says I would like to know more about the Internet

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Speaker 1: to project. There's a website, but not that much to tail.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you Scotty for that listener me, I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate it. That was so we thought we'd talked

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Speaker 1: about internet too. Oh right, do you want to jump. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think maybe, uh, I shouldn't have written it down

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Speaker 1: as Internet t o O. So this this mean I

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Speaker 1: need to start. Yeah, it's funny that you brought that up, Scotty,

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Speaker 1: because this is one of these things that you know

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Speaker 1: people here about from time to time, but nobody ever

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Speaker 1: really talks about. It was supposed to be this big

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Speaker 1: thing back in the in the mid nineties, because everybody

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Speaker 1: was talking about the imminent collapse of the Internet and

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Speaker 1: how it's all going to blow up, and how the

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Speaker 1: educational users of the Internet, we're all gonna go off

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Speaker 1: and start their own thing called Internet Too and you

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Speaker 1: can keep this Internet. We're gonna have our own. I'm

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Speaker 1: taking my ball and going home. So yeah, it didn't

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Speaker 1: exactly work out that way, but there is still an

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Speaker 1: Internet Too. Yeah. So there are a lot of miscau

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Speaker 1: receptions about it, mainly because, again, let's Chris pointed out,

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Speaker 1: not very many people chat about it that much. So

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Speaker 1: Internet Too it's it's it's two different things. First of all,

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Speaker 1: if you're thinking like there's a super secret Internet that

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Speaker 1: exists below our current Internet, that's not what Internet Too is. Now,

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Speaker 1: that's something else. Entirely we can't talk about it. We

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Speaker 1: can't that's the dark net. We can't go into that.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, the Internet too, that's it's really a consortium. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's a group of universities, research institutes, corporations that have

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Speaker 1: got had They've come together to create an environment wherein uh,

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Speaker 1: these these different organizations can utilize a network, a very

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Speaker 1: high speed network for purposes of research and sharing knowledge,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So sort of the same thing

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Speaker 1: that the original and you know what, the original intent

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Speaker 1: of the Internet was, go way back, and there there

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Speaker 1: is it is kind of from what I could tell

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Speaker 1: in my research, Um, there is kind of a second

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Speaker 1: Internet along the lines of the regular Internet that they use.

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Speaker 1: They all have high speed fiber optic connections. But it's

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Speaker 1: not a separate internet. Um, so they are. They are dedicated,

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Speaker 1: it's dedicated hardware what you're talking about. Yeah, but it

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Speaker 1: is part of the Internet as a whole. It's just

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Speaker 1: that they are the only ones who have access to that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were talking about very special routers. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: special a special backbone, a fiber backbone for this this

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Speaker 1: Internet that stretches thirteen thousand five miles if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 1: from my little sheet of facts, and um the kilometer

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Speaker 1: conversion not because I did it just before we came

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Speaker 1: in here. So so I'm sorry to all of our

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Speaker 1: friends in other nations, but we're talking about United States

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Speaker 1: centric thing anyways. So Internet to the the idea here

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Speaker 1: is that we they these research organizations. Let's let's take

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Speaker 1: a quick step back into the way back machine and

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Speaker 1: talk about the origins of the Internet and UH and

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Speaker 1: networks in general. If you go all the way back

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Speaker 1: to our panet, you're talking about several research institutions uh

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Speaker 1: networking together and sending information from one massive computer to another.

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Speaker 1: And the one of the ultimate goals here was being

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Speaker 1: able to share knowledge at really really rapid speeds. And

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Speaker 1: uh so the Internet for a long time, that's really

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Speaker 1: what was all about. It was mostly schools, universities, research

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Speaker 1: organizations that was that used these these lines in order

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Speaker 1: to share information and open up databases so that places

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Speaker 1: that had a really rich amount of information on a

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Speaker 1: specific subject could share it with everybody instead of it

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Speaker 1: just being centralized in one location. Yep. As a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, the first time I used the Internet, which

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Speaker 1: was nineteen and a half years ago. Now, um, you

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Speaker 1: know that that's you know, nobody had heard of the internet.

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Speaker 1: I mean people had heard of the Internet, but uh,

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Speaker 1: you like, if you went up to somebody on the

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Speaker 1: street and said, hey, you know, what kind of Internet

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Speaker 1: connection you have at home, they wouldn't have because they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have really known about it and what it was

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Speaker 1: and what it was supposed to be for. But everybody,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the college where I went, would have

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Speaker 1: email connections and uh you know, could use chat and

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Speaker 1: you know, basic basic functions protocols in two colors, green

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Speaker 1: and black. I have all sorts of colors here. Uh So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the that was the the original kind of purpose for

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Speaker 1: the Internet. And then of course the Internet opened up

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Speaker 1: to everybody, and then came the World Wide Web eventually,

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Speaker 1: which again originated as sort of a project on this

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Speaker 1: this college university environment. But once the Web opened up

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Speaker 1: to everybody and the Internet really opened up to everybody,

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Speaker 1: suddenly you've got this this great network. But it's being

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Speaker 1: used for lots of different things, not just research and

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Speaker 1: and sending information or or calculating law numbers. And if

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Speaker 1: you wanted to do that kind of stuff, if you

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Speaker 1: wanted to do the massive amounts of research or sending

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Speaker 1: lots of information between one major group and another. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it meant competing for bandwidth with all these other applications

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Speaker 1: that everybody else was using. So suddenly this incredibly useful

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Speaker 1: research tool and academic tool became less useful. Uh not

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Speaker 1: that it completely was, you know, useless. It's still how

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Speaker 1: to use. It just wasn't nearly as fast as it

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Speaker 1: had been because now everybody was on it. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean there's a lot of commercial traffic now, So all

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Speaker 1: those other packets were going back to the whole Information

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Speaker 1: super Highway name that we used to give the Internet.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many of our listeners actually remember that,

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Speaker 1: um I do, but the Information super Highway. Think of

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Speaker 1: it like that. Like originally the super highway was allowed

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Speaker 1: only allowed traffic from ten percent of the population on

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Speaker 1: that highway, and it was lanes wide, exact, there's no

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Speaker 1: one in the way, you can go as fast as

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Speaker 1: you want, there's nothing to worry about. And then the

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Speaker 1: highway opens up for everyone something You've got traffic jams everywhere.

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Speaker 1: That's essentially what we're talking about here, and that's that's

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Speaker 1: why everybody was talking about this in the mid nineties

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Speaker 1: about how the Internet was going to implode under the

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Speaker 1: weight of all the traffic. Well, it's one of those things. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I think the the information super Highway at that point

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Speaker 1: was maybe four lanes wide. But that's the thing, you know, people,

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Speaker 1: you don't really see this, but as the Internet grows

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Speaker 1: in traffic, they're also adding on more lanes of super highway.

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Speaker 1: UM so, I mean it's it's really grown to handle

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Speaker 1: more traffic as time has worn on. It's just that,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's infinitely more traffic going on. It's just

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Speaker 1: like in the real physical world. Yeah, exactly. So so

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Speaker 1: what's the solution. Well, the solution is to build a

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Speaker 1: different set of roads for just the universities. UM. Back

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Speaker 1: in October one in Chicago, a group of they for

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Speaker 1: university they had salmon for lunch. Thirty four universities. UH

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Speaker 1: representatives from thirty four universities met in a Chicago hotel

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Speaker 1: and they committed to this idea of forming an organization

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Speaker 1: at that time called Internet Too. And the organization would

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Speaker 1: also be dedicated in to finding ways of dedicating specific

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Speaker 1: resources to the academic research world and uh academic and research,

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Speaker 1: I should say, just academic research and UH so that

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Speaker 1: that kind of set the ball in motion. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: until we started actually seeing corporations kind of join into

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Speaker 1: on us and uh and provide the hardware that was

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Speaker 1: gonna be necessary. You know, you had to have grant

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Speaker 1: money come in to fund it. And you might say, well,

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Speaker 1: what how does this benefit the rest of us? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not, for instance, I haven't been in college in

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Speaker 1: a long time, So how do I benefit from this

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Speaker 1: Internet Too thing? While they're a lot of different ways

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Speaker 1: we benefit, one very simple one is that Internet Too.

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Speaker 1: You can think of it as the way the way

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Speaker 1: Internet to his website describes it. You can think of

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Speaker 1: their network as being four to five years ahead of

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Speaker 1: our current technology that we use on the Internet right now.

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Speaker 1: And then, in a on to our sister podcast, High

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Speaker 1: Speed Stuff, I think of its sort of as a

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Speaker 1: test track for the Internet. So yeah, you can think

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Speaker 1: of it like, well, so their technology is why why

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Speaker 1: don't we have that technology in a more widespread, universal

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Speaker 1: kind of of of approach. Well, the reason is that

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Speaker 1: this Internet Too is being used as a as a

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Speaker 1: test track. You can't be sure that everything is going

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Speaker 1: to work. In fact, most stuff isn't going to work.

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Speaker 1: The first time out, you're gonna have to tweak it,

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna have to adjust it, and I'll and

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Speaker 1: that's eventually the the successes are going to trickle down

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Speaker 1: into everything that we use. It's just gonna take a

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Speaker 1: few years. But the the fact that this exists allows

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Speaker 1: researchers to create new applications, new uh coding. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's all sorts of things that they can do you

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Speaker 1: over this network that they couldn't do over the regular Internet. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's you know, now that the Internet is such

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Speaker 1: a big part of all of our lives. Um, if

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Speaker 1: they tried to, you know, throw the switch and convert

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Speaker 1: everybody over to a new technology overnight, it's bound to

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Speaker 1: take out a large section of the Internet worldwide. And

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Speaker 1: that's you know, that's the reason for needing to keep

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Speaker 1: that in a separate test environment. But there are already

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Speaker 1: some things that that we're seeing, you know, that have

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Speaker 1: been developed from Internet to technology. I mean, they were

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Speaker 1: pioneers in i p v six technology, which is the

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Speaker 1: newer version of the Internet Protocol address UM. Basically, to

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Speaker 1: accommodate the number of people on the Internet, you have

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Speaker 1: to have you know, everybody's got an address where your

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Speaker 1: information is sent, and uh, you know, there are so

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Speaker 1: many people and only so many I P numbers that

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Speaker 1: they can use, so they basically tacked on a couple

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Speaker 1: of octets on the uh the IP address. I mean

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Speaker 1: I'm oversimplifying here, but this is one of the things

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Speaker 1: that they tried out on Internet to was, you know,

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Speaker 1: will I PV six work? And uh, you know, now

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Speaker 1: gradually it's sort of making us way over into the

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Speaker 1: real world. Yeah, and you're you know, we we talked

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Speaker 1: about the the speed of this network. You might be

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Speaker 1: wondering how fast is it. Well, the backbone can support

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Speaker 1: speeds of up to a hundred gigabits per second. That's

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Speaker 1: a little fast. That's amazingly lightning fast. If for a comparison,

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Speaker 1: I looked up Verizon's FiOS service Yes, Yes, which comes

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Speaker 1: in several different tiers. The first one, I believe is

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Speaker 1: fifteen megabits per second. That's megabits as opposed to gigabits.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about orders of magnitude here. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And the fastest that I saw, which may not be

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Speaker 1: Verizon's fastest because I just did this very quickly, was

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Speaker 1: fifty combits per second, which is still tiny. Now. Now

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Speaker 1: the hundred gigabits per second we're talking about, that's the backbone.

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Speaker 1: That's just the information being able to travel across the

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Speaker 1: backbone of this network. The interfaces that people are actually

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Speaker 1: using do not go that fast, um, although they're trying

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Speaker 1: to support interfaces that would support go up to around

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Speaker 1: forty gigabits per second right now, as I recall UM,

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Speaker 1: which is again lightning fast. And you may say, well,

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Speaker 1: why do they need speeds that high, Well, some of

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Speaker 1: the applications are using involve enormous numbers and calculations. For example,

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Speaker 1: the Large Hadron Collider when it finally goes online, assuming

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Speaker 1: it ever does, uh, that data is going to be

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Speaker 1: shared with scientists from around the world. And it's not

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Speaker 1: just going to be the people who are at the

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Speaker 1: CERN facility. They're gonna be other laboratories. They're going to

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Speaker 1: use this information to really take a look at what

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Speaker 1: makes our universe tick. So we're talking about big, big

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Speaker 1: questions here, which coincidentally require big big numbers when you're

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Speaker 1: when you're crunching the data, and so all of the

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Speaker 1: information that's coming out is going to take up huge

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Speaker 1: amounts of bandwidth and so without a dedicated network, uh,

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Speaker 1: it would take ages for that information to get to

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Speaker 1: where it's going. Another thing they work on on Internet

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Speaker 1: too is middleware. They have a middleware initiative and that

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Speaker 1: Uh it's not very sexy, I gotta admit. UM basically

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a type of software, but it negotiates connections.

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Speaker 1: I mean it involves UM things like authentication, identification, security,

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Speaker 1: UM directories. It's the kind of thing that will help you,

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Speaker 1: you know, get one packet to the other end of

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Speaker 1: the network and back, uh, you know, more smoothly and

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Speaker 1: and securely than it would necessarily using an UM less

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Speaker 1: adept technology. And eventually we can hope to see the

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Speaker 1: sort of network capability extend to our Internet. Again, when

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Speaker 1: we're talking about why is in our Internet as fast

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Speaker 1: as there's there, don't not to make an US versus

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Speaker 1: them sort of thing. But for Internet to you've got

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Speaker 1: to remember this is going to some very specific schools

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Speaker 1: and some resource organizations, and that's about it. So the

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Speaker 1: network does not have to be as broad as it

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Speaker 1: would have to be for consumers. It doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: stretch into various neighborhoods it's going to very specific locations,

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Speaker 1: so when you're laying the fiber, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: lay it everywhere like you would with a more widespread approach.

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Speaker 1: So you know, to to try and develop that for

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Speaker 1: an entire nation would be very expensive. And and that's

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Speaker 1: another thing is that there's a lot of money that's

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Speaker 1: going into this project, and it's being raised by various foundations, organizations, donations,

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Speaker 1: some of the companies are donating time and uh um

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Speaker 1: resources to this, so it's not like a more widespread

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Speaker 1: nationwide fiber network is going to just pop up out

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Speaker 1: of nowhere. And the the Internet Too, is a nonprofit

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Speaker 1: organization too, so it's uh you know, completely dedicated to

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Speaker 1: research and Internet research. So now grant this hasn't stopped

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Speaker 1: people from trying to use it to do naughty things.

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Speaker 1: I read a report about students at various universities who

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Speaker 1: had created a site on Internet too that or they

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Speaker 1: didn't create it, they were they were using a site

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Speaker 1: that was a file sharing site meant to share research files,

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing, to distribute videos and music and

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Speaker 1: things of that nature. So again, you know, once again,

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Speaker 1: you you've got the fast network access. There's someone's going

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Speaker 1: to use it to download a movie. And uh, of

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Speaker 1: course at that speed you can get a high definition

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Speaker 1: film and a couple of minutes. It's not the same

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Speaker 1: thing as if you were dialing up over Kazaar or something.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, the I'll imagine if it takes you a

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Speaker 1: couple of hours to download a film, whether you're doing

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Speaker 1: so legitimately or otherwise, we'll only take you a minute

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Speaker 1: or two maybe using this connection. I can see why

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Speaker 1: some people were tempted to do that, although you know

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Speaker 1: it's not what it was intended for. No, not at all,

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Speaker 1: but it happens. That's about all of God. Oh good,

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Speaker 1: because I'm done too. But that, of course brings us

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Speaker 1: to listener me. Yes, and this listener mail comes from

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Speaker 1: j s a k A Mac Daddy, Chris and Jonathan.

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Speaker 1: I have listened to every one of your podcasts, which

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Speaker 1: get me through the daily monotony of commuting two and

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Speaker 1: from work. I have an English literature degree, but gravitate

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Speaker 1: to all things tech. I heard your challenge or a

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Speaker 1: Spencerian Sonnet, so I felt compelled to give one a whirl.

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Speaker 1: I am an avid Mac user, but use Windows XP

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Speaker 1: Pro at work. I do love my Max, my MacBook,

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00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,639
Speaker 1: my wife's MacBook, and my daughter's iMac all work great

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Speaker 1: with a virtual Windows machine on them. But I can

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Speaker 1: assure you that Microsoft isn't the monster that most Mac

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Speaker 1: freaks make them out to be. I'd be lost without

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Speaker 1: Microsoft Office for both Mac and Windows. And so here's

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Speaker 1: the sonnets, the war between the giants, waging a war

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Speaker 1: of Apples and Windows. Who'll win their dumb be all

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Speaker 1: and ind all brawl competing for markets? Frustration grows the

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Speaker 1: more you see and here, the more you stall. The

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00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,600
Speaker 1: world was made for Windows, after all, but Max are rising,

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Speaker 1: gaining every day. For Apple needs no quarter. After all,

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Speaker 1: we buy more iPods and i phones today for tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: Apples won't go away, but find a niche it every

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Speaker 1: market share and soon, well soon will their trails converge.

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Speaker 1: As you say, so they both will operate in the air,

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Speaker 1: both move along the same old dusty road, fighting so

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Speaker 1: hard for their tragger load. Thanks JS, that's awesome. The

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Speaker 1: Apples versus Uh Microsoft in in poletic form. I liked it.

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Speaker 1: I like you very much, and I agree. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: Microsoft Office for Mac is. I think it's good. I

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Speaker 1: think it's a fantastic product. Well there you go. So

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Speaker 1: it's got the endorsement from Mr Blatt endorse anything. I

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Speaker 1: just I like it. Yeah, so send those checks to

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Speaker 1: how Sta care of Johnson Strickland. Hey, I'm just I

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Speaker 1: don't want you to get overwhelmed by mail. Uh So

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Speaker 1: this is one of several sonnets I've been sent in.

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Speaker 1: We are going to eventually get through all of them.

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Speaker 1: I think it's amazing that our listeners have done this,

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Speaker 1: And thank you all. Thank you JS for listending this one.

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Speaker 1: And if any of you have any comments, question and

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00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:05,640
Speaker 1: epic poems uh I don't know, um jokes, you could

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00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,359
Speaker 1: write us our email addresses tech stuff at how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Just don't throw us any tech support

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00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,720
Speaker 1: issues because you're not likely to get the help you

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00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,160
Speaker 1: need at the speed with which you need it. Yes,

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00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 1: no tech support requests please, because chances are we have

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Speaker 1: no idea what the heck went wrong with your iPod

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00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 1: unless you dropped down the toilet, in which case you

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00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 1: need to get a new one at any rate. If

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Speaker 1: you want to learn more about the Internet and computers

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Speaker 1: and things that interact with the Internet and computers, I

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Speaker 1: highly recommend this great website really, what is it how

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Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com? Oh my god, Yes, it's fantastic

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Speaker 1: and we will talk to you again really soon for

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00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 1: moral this and thousands of other topics. Does it how

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Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com? And be sure to check out

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Speaker 1: the new tech stuff blog now on the House Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works homepage, brought to you by the reinvented two thousand

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Speaker 1: twelve cameras. It's ready, are you