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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young girl striking

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Speaker 1: out on her own, has this awesome condo in Florida,

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Speaker 1: an awesome job, an awesome boyfriend, gets ready to go

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Speaker 1: to work one morning. If you look at her apartment,

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Speaker 1: you can see where she's laid out several outfits, trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out what to wear. But then she's never

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Speaker 1: seen again. Jennifer, What happened to Jennifer Kessey with me today?

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Speaker 1: Her family joining in not only with the latest about

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Speaker 1: a phantom figure that may have kidnapped Jennifer, but a

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Speaker 1: full on book written about the aftermath of her disappearance.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Nancy Grace, this is crime Story. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation and series

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Speaker 1: exem one eleven. First of all, take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our friends. At forty eight hours, twenty four year old

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Speaker 1: Jennifer seemed to have everything going for her. She had

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Speaker 1: bought a brand new condo in Orlando, she'd been promoted

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Speaker 1: at work, and there was a new man in her life.

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Speaker 1: She was intelligent, she was captivating, She had a sense

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Speaker 1: of humor. One of the first conversations we had ended

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Speaker 1: up being like five hours. Rob Allen a thirty two

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Speaker 1: year old Englishman, lived two and a half hours away

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Speaker 1: in Fort Lauderdale. The couple had been dating for a

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Speaker 1: year and saw each other every other weekend. So glad

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Speaker 1: that Rob Allen is speaking out. Because of course, everyone

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Speaker 1: immediately assumed her disappearance was connected to her boyfriend, but

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Speaker 1: it was not. But she fails to show up to

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Speaker 1: work that morning, Listen, Jennifer failed to show up for

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Speaker 1: a meeting at work. Her co workers at Westgate Resorts

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Speaker 1: couldn't reach her on her cell phone or at home,

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Speaker 1: so they called her parents. I got the phone call

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Speaker 1: from her employer that she had not shown up. Was

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Speaker 1: there a family emergency? I immediately panicked because Jen's cell

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Speaker 1: phone has never been turned off. Joyce called the manager

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Speaker 1: of Jen's apartment complex. He went to her unit. Jennifer

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Speaker 1: wasn't there, neither was her car. You know, interesting that

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Speaker 1: she's not picking up her phone, because as it is now,

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Speaker 1: who is ever very far away from their phone, much

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Speaker 1: less a young person like Jennifer. Kessy with me an

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Speaker 1: I'll star panel, but first I want to go to

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Speaker 1: Bill Gilmore, Jennifer's beloved uncle who has taken part in

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Speaker 1: all of the efforts to find Jennifer after she goes

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Speaker 1: missing that morning on her way to work. He's now

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Speaker 1: coming out with a book, Aftermath of Jennifer, Cassie's Abduction,

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Speaker 1: and Uncle's Aspiring Journey and other stories of hope. Bill.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when he first heard that Jennifer was missing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll never forget it. My sister had been trying. My

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Speaker 1: wife and I and our family lived in Lake Mary,

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Speaker 1: so we were about forty minutes from where jen lived

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Speaker 1: down in Orlando, and so she started calling me right

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Speaker 1: off the bat in the morning, but I was in

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Speaker 1: the air. I was traveling to New Jersey. We played

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Speaker 1: telephone tag and it wasn't until six o'clock that night

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Speaker 1: that I've learned, And of course we were just all stunned.

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Speaker 1: But at that point all we knew was she was missing.

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Speaker 1: She hadn't showed up for work. They by that time

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Speaker 1: they had arrived at the condo, and you know, it

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Speaker 1: was just in the early stages. I mean, everybody's hearts

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Speaker 1: were just palpainting. We just overwhelmed with what happened. And

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Speaker 1: there was never a point before that moment that Jennifer

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Speaker 1: had just flaked owun had disappeared for a weekend or

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Speaker 1: when I hear so this person just wanted space, wanted

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Speaker 1: to go out on her own. That was not Jennifer,

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Speaker 1: that's correct. I mean, Jennifer was one of these people

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Speaker 1: that so attentive and respectful. If she wasn't going to

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Speaker 1: be somewhere, she'd call let you know if she was

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Speaker 1: running late, even to the point in terms of security,

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Speaker 1: which is amazing that if she was leaving a mall

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Speaker 1: in the evening hours in dark, she would be on

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Speaker 1: the phone talking to somebody until she got into her

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Speaker 1: car and locked the door. That was you know that

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Speaker 1: she was very conscious of her surroundings. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: really interesting. You know, Bill Gilmore, and Jennifer's beloved uncle,

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Speaker 1: who has now after taking part in every aspect of

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Speaker 1: the search for Jennifer, actually written a book aftermath of

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Kessey's abduction. I didn't know that about Jennifer. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know that she was a safety, not like myself.

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Speaker 1: And it's so interesting. My son went to a little

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Speaker 1: school party get together and my daughter Na got a

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Speaker 1: chance to be alone last night and we went to

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Speaker 1: one of our favorite places for vegetables. We came out.

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Speaker 1: The sun hadn't quite set yet. But we got in

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Speaker 1: the car and my daughter, who's just forty he said, Mom,

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Speaker 1: remember locked the door, glanced in the backseat, and then

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Speaker 1: locked the door immediately. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I did not know.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer was like that, tell me about that, because that really,

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Speaker 1: to me, is very probitive of how she was to

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Speaker 1: how she was kidnapped, right, And so that's why I

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Speaker 1: think that's what what was so concerning to us as

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Speaker 1: the family, I know, extremely frustrating my sister and brother

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Speaker 1: law at the time, was that they're trying to explain

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Speaker 1: to law enforcement that this is her character and it

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Speaker 1: wasn't just them. Her employer said the same thing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: numerous people were saying that, no, this is out of character,

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Speaker 1: but they wanted to focus on the narrative. It was

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Speaker 1: a young couple had a spat, she you know, just

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Speaker 1: kind of walked off on her own. Oh I hate that.

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Speaker 1: I hate that so much. Wait wait wait, wait, wait

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Speaker 1: wait wait is that true? Ray Kiputo, Ray Kaputo, everyone

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Speaker 1: invest to get every reporter out of Orlando, and professor

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Speaker 1: at Betane Cookman University, Ray Kaputo, I didn't realize that

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Speaker 1: that was their focus at the beginning, that she and

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Speaker 1: the boyfriend we just heard talking, Rob Allen, had had

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Speaker 1: an argument, so she just stomped off. Really, then, why

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Speaker 1: didn't she land all those clothes to go to work.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you're going to stop off, why don't

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Speaker 1: you do it at seven o'clock in the morning for

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Speaker 1: Pete's sake? I mean, she was getting ready for work.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that was their focus at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: Ray Nancy like, that's the narrative that the couple had

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Speaker 1: a fight. But but here's the thing is that this

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Speaker 1: is a couple that just went on this tropical vacation

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Speaker 1: to Saint Croix. They were in a long term, a

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Speaker 1: long distance relationship, so they have this emotional rollercoaster high

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Speaker 1: being with all these friends in the beach and the sun.

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Speaker 1: You know, got some tom cruise guy flipping drinks, and

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Speaker 1: then Jennifer comes back and drives all the way to work.

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Speaker 1: You know. So they say it's a narrative of a

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Speaker 1: couple got in the flay. But Jennifer, which is in

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Speaker 1: a long distance relationship, so they had a bit of

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Speaker 1: a lover spat, you know, and that's not out of

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Speaker 1: the ordinary given their conditions. So they did have an argument.

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Speaker 1: They had what would rob called, you know, a minor disagreement,

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Speaker 1: you know, a spat between of spouses significant others. Okay,

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Speaker 1: hold on, why Karen start joining me? Psychologists joining us

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Speaker 1: out of Manhattan today? You can find her at karen

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Speaker 1: start dot com. That's Karen with a se Karen after

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Speaker 1: a lot of vacation, which is wonderful. But then I

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Speaker 1: heard him say an island. Then you come back with

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Speaker 1: your passports and you're tired, and then you get to

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Speaker 1: the airport, and then you go through the whole coming

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Speaker 1: into the country drama with your passport, and then you

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Speaker 1: have to find your luggage, and then you have to

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Speaker 1: drag your luggage to the car, and then you split

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Speaker 1: up and he goes one way, she goes the other.

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Speaker 1: I can understand why you would have an argument. I

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Speaker 1: can't tell you how many times David and I have

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Speaker 1: had it out over the baggage. Claims. Okay, it's just

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Speaker 1: because we're tired, the children are hungry and so forth

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Speaker 1: and so on. I mean, it happens even after this

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Speaker 1: incredible vacation you may have had. So I'm not putting

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of stock in that. But really, Karen Start,

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Speaker 1: the reality is he was in this town, she was

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Speaker 1: in another town. His digital footprints shows he stayed in

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Speaker 1: his home and that she disappeared from her home two

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Speaker 1: hours away. Argument or no argument by how much stock

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Speaker 1: do you put in a post vacation fuss? Well, not

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Speaker 1: at all, especially because they live in two different places.

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Speaker 1: So here they've had this wonderful experience together and then

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Speaker 1: they have to separate, and they haven't been able to

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Speaker 1: be together the whole time. So Karen Start, when they

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Speaker 1: get home, she spends the night at his place, She

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Speaker 1: goes all the way home the next morning to work.

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Speaker 1: The following morning is when she goes missing. He is

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Speaker 1: still at his home. She is at her home a

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Speaker 1: couple of hours away. But Karen Start, the point I

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Speaker 1: was trying to make is that, well, you and Mark,

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Speaker 1: you're very very happy. You travel a lot. When you travel,

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Speaker 1: do you ever get into spats over silly things? I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you something, Nancy, there was a whole article about

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Speaker 1: couples that fight when they're traveling, And because you're in

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Speaker 1: a new place, it's difficult. You're not used to the surroundings,

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Speaker 1: and you wind up getting into those kind of spats,

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Speaker 1: and it really is dispatch over things that are nonsensical.

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Speaker 1: So whether they thought there during the trip or at

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Speaker 1: the end of the trip, it seems to me from

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Speaker 1: reading this information and watching it that the only reason

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Speaker 1: they were turning to him is because the first suspect

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Speaker 1: is always the boyfriend or the husband, no other reason,

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Speaker 1: you know. Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jackson

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Speaker 1: State University, an author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.

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Speaker 1: He's a star of a new hit series on iHeart

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Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott all the YadA,

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Speaker 1: YadA YadA about did they argue about the travel. It's

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Speaker 1: really irrelevant because the forensics show he was in one

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Speaker 1: town and she was in another town when she was kidnapped. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you have to have a start starting point though,

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Speaker 1: with any investigation, and it always starts with those that

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Speaker 1: are in the intimate circle. And then once those individuals

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Speaker 1: are eliminated, and when you can actually verify that this subject,

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Speaker 1: this boyfriend, was in a completely different area geographically, then

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Speaker 1: he lessens, he lessens in importance on this continuum that

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Speaker 1: we have in investigations, and then you begin to focus

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Speaker 1: on the area where she was actually physically last seen,

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Speaker 1: in those environments that she's very familiar with crime stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about a brand new

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Speaker 1: book that's coming out written by Jennifer Kessie's uncle, who

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Speaker 1: was there in the hours and days following her disappearance.

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Speaker 1: She seemingly had it all on u condo. She was

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Speaker 1: living him, wonderful jobs, she just got promoted, absolutely stunning, vibrant, happy,

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Speaker 1: just one of those really good people that emanate happiness,

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Speaker 1: nice to other people, a joy to be with. And

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Speaker 1: then suddenly it says she just drops off the face

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Speaker 1: of the earth. Take a listen to what her mom,

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Speaker 1: Joyce Kessie tells me. It's Cassie, what more can you

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Speaker 1: tell me about what time? If you know that she

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Speaker 1: would contact her boyfriend in the morning, jen typically left

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Speaker 1: work between seven thirty and eight in the morning, and

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Speaker 1: it was her habit to call Rob when she got

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Speaker 1: in her car, So as she got in her car

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Speaker 1: and was driving to work is when she would make

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Speaker 1: that good morning call. And as we know, Rob never

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Speaker 1: received that call. And brother loganis in as well. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends. At forty eight hours, I

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Speaker 1: was just like, oh my god, oh my god, this

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Speaker 1: can't be happening. A mother called her crying. I was hysterical,

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Speaker 1: she said, Jens, Miss, I'm like, what are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: Who goes? She hasn't shut off for work. Jennifer's parents

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Speaker 1: and her brother Logan, raced the two hours from their

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Speaker 1: home in Bradington, Florida, to Jen's condo. You go inside,

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Speaker 1: what did you see? The clean apartment, shower was wet,

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Speaker 1: blow dryer out, and Jennifer's father tells nay more, listen, Drew, Cassie,

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Speaker 1: you get the news that Jennifer did not report to work.

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Speaker 1: You tell me that you immediately jump in the car

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Speaker 1: and drive our plus to get to her condo. Sure?

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Speaker 1: Will you approach the condo complex? Everything was normal to us.

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Speaker 1: We got up to the guard gate and we got

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Speaker 1: let in ue quite quickly. They really don't take a

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Speaker 1: lot of implement. Anyone who had a pass key who

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Speaker 1: lived there could come through on the right side. It

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Speaker 1: looked like she slept in her bed. She had two

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Speaker 1: or three outfits laid out on the bed, as if

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Speaker 1: she was choosing an outfit. To wear. She as was stated,

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Speaker 1: the bathroom looked like someone got ready to go to work.

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Speaker 1: The rest of the condo was just perfect data honestly

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Speaker 1: looked like a maid came through, right down to a

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Speaker 1: full setting, four p setting table setting on her dining

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Speaker 1: room table too. High profile lawyer Matthew Mangino, former district attorney,

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Speaker 1: former Parole board member and author of The Executioner's Toll. Matthew,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Several things. Number One, first,

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Speaker 1: suspects always the boyfriend. He's ruled out. Number Two, the

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Speaker 1: pristine nature of the condo when the family goes in

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Speaker 1: tells me nothing happened in that condo and that that's

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Speaker 1: not where the struggle occurred. Upstairs, you can see the

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Speaker 1: shower is still damp from when she took a shower

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Speaker 1: that morning. In a case like that, as a district attorney,

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Speaker 1: what do you do next? Well, Nancy, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: an unfortunate reality that when police or district attorney law

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Speaker 1: enforcement here's about a missing person, there's always a bit

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Speaker 1: of skepticism. They don't act immediately. They want to know,

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Speaker 1: you know what the circumstances where. I think that's why

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Speaker 1: the spat with the boyfriend may have been important to

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Speaker 1: them because they think maybe this is just someone who's

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Speaker 1: upset and you know, went off to reflect and they'll

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Speaker 1: be back. But that's unfortunate because that time immediately after

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Speaker 1: a person goes missing is so important and so crucial

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Speaker 1: to try to get as much evidence as you can

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Speaker 1: in terms of canvassing. What did people see, you know,

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Speaker 1: what did they see her in her car? Did they

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Speaker 1: see her car move? You know, you know it didn't

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Speaker 1: happen in that room or in that apartment because it's

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Speaker 1: not in disarray, so you know it happened immediately if

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Speaker 1: something did happen outside of that apartment. So talking to

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Speaker 1: neighbors and other people with me, Bill Gilmore and Jennifer's

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Speaker 1: uncle and author Aftermath of Jennifer Kess These Abduction coming out. Bill,

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Speaker 1: tell me about those hours and what you were learning

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Speaker 1: about her condo and her disappearance. Well, I mean I

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Speaker 1: arrived there the next morning because I was up in

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Speaker 1: New Jersey, so I was able to find went directly

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Speaker 1: from the airport to the condo, and obviously family and

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Speaker 1: friends who were gathering we were all trying to make

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Speaker 1: sense of it and begin to plan just for the

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Speaker 1: missing persons, right, you know, get posters made and started

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Speaker 1: hitting corners and knocking on doors and that type of thing.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, as Drew and Logan and Joyce of all said,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this was just that condo was like any

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Speaker 1: of ours. In the morning, somebody came by and we

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Speaker 1: were in every on our way out the door, you know,

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Speaker 1: looking at outfits or whatever. Just would be just a

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Speaker 1: normal environment. So the gentleman that just spoke is one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent correct. I mean, nothing happened in the condo.

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Speaker 1: So it was somewhere between the door which he left

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Speaker 1: that door and went to the car. And of course,

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Speaker 1: the way that the condos were all under conversion from

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Speaker 1: a apartments to the condo units, there weren't I don't

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Speaker 1: think but a couple of people that were in her building.

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Speaker 1: These were open breezeways to the staircases on either side.

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Speaker 1: So I mean somebody could be easily in that area

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Speaker 1: and you wouldn't necessarily know it. I'm trying to imagine

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Speaker 1: those moments when you get there, when you touched down

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Speaker 1: in Orlando and you get to the condo, what was

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Speaker 1: the same. Oh well, I mean my heart was racing

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Speaker 1: I think like everybody else was, We're just sitting there

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Speaker 1: trying to make sense out of what had just happened,

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Speaker 1: and then what do we do? So we obviously just

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Speaker 1: you just begin to do the things that just makes

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Speaker 1: sense and try to get awareness. Drew has done a

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Speaker 1: massable drive, as you well know, and making sure that

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Speaker 1: Jennifer's story remains in the public eye because someone out

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Speaker 1: there knows something, and it's just a matter of ultimately

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Speaker 1: having those people come forward. But the emotion that for

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Speaker 1: all of us was just we just have to do

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Speaker 1: whatever we could. And that was for two days. So

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Speaker 1: from Tuesday, all day Wednesday until the morning of third

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Speaker 1: we were we just thought she was missing, so we're

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Speaker 1: looking for her car. I'm trying to imagine the tension

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Speaker 1: in the air, and the mom and the dad and

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Speaker 1: you just doing whatever you could think of, making flyers,

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Speaker 1: putting up posters, going door to door, all with the

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Speaker 1: cloud hanging over you that the cars were insisting she

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Speaker 1: had had a spat over nothing with her boyfriend and stopped.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, working with that misconception arching over the investigation

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Speaker 1: didn't help a thing. But as you said, suddenly the

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Speaker 1: car is found. Take a listen to our friend at CBS.

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Speaker 1: Two days after Jennifer went missing, her car was found

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Speaker 1: in an apartment complex parking lot about a mile away

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Speaker 1: from where she lived. But there was no sign of

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Speaker 1: Jennifer and no conclusive DNA. But this surveillance video showed

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Speaker 1: a person parking her car at noon on the day

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Speaker 1: she disappeared being hit with a ton of bricks. The

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Speaker 1: phantom figure then walked away in the direction of Jennifer's complex.

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Speaker 1: The person was so casual, Like to Bill Gilmore, this

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Speaker 1: is Jennifer's uncle, an author of an upcoming book, Aftermath

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Speaker 1: of Jennifer Kessey's Abduction. Bill, tell me about that video. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was the luckiest person in the world. And of course,

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Speaker 1: the technology at the time when those videos of valence

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Speaker 1: cameras or graining, but they were every other second clips,

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Speaker 1: so there was a fence that that person walked by,

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Speaker 1: and every other frame there was a fence post that

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Speaker 1: was partially blocking their image. Now, for most of us,

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Speaker 1: if you actually knew that person, there was enough that

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Speaker 1: you would identify them. But obviously we didn't know who

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Speaker 1: that person is, and so we've all we've said many times,

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Speaker 1: there's two people that are missing because we have never

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Speaker 1: have come across any information having to do with that

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Speaker 1: person nor Jennifer. So two people, the person of interest

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Speaker 1: in that video and Jennifer did this phantom figure kidnap

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Speaker 1: an all American girl, Jennifer Kessie Straight back out to

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Speaker 1: Ray Kaputo, investigative reporter joining us out of Orlando. Ray again,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Tell me about that

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Speaker 1: parking lot and what we know about this so called

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Speaker 1: phantom figure and also her car. This guy parked her car.

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Speaker 1: Are there no Prince, no DNA, nothing none. Nancy, her

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Speaker 1: car was found not too far from her own apartment complex,

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Speaker 1: but it was on American of Boulevard. Now, she lived

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Speaker 1: right by this great mall, a lot of tourists coming

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Speaker 1: and going, but right down the street the neighborhood gets sketchy.

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Speaker 1: So this car is pulled into this parking werenot where

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Speaker 1: I've heard they found numerous stolen cars. It's a higher

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Speaker 1: crime area. The person in the car sat there for

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Speaker 1: approximately thirty two seconds before getting out, and police presumed

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Speaker 1: that he may have wiped down the car. Got rid

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Speaker 1: of evidence because they found really nothing. They a fiber

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Speaker 1: and a small fiber of evidence, No, Prince, I mean,

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Speaker 1: Whoeber committed this crime. Whoeber was in that car, perhaps

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Speaker 1: knew what they were doing because they watched no evidence.

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Speaker 1: You know. Amazingly, the surrealist video took a photo every

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Speaker 1: three seconds, catching this so called phantom figure, and every

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Speaker 1: three seconds, each time the person's face was obstructed by

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Speaker 1: a recurring fence post. There is a wrought iron fence

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Speaker 1: with thin steaks going up, and then every let's just

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Speaker 1: say ten or fifteen wrought iron steaks is a post.

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Speaker 1: And every time the video surrels took a picture, the

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Speaker 1: person's face was obstructed by that recurring post. Jennifer's father

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Speaker 1: tells me more listen from that spot drew from her

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Speaker 1: condo to where the car was found. I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about the area where the car was found. Was

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Speaker 1: it part at any kind of a business where there

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Speaker 1: could be surveillance video and in that mile stretch. Florida

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Speaker 1: is notorious for all of its tolls, tolls everywhere you go.

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Speaker 1: You gotta have that easy pass at Sunshine Pass, So

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Speaker 1: were there any tolls? Were there any red lights that

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Speaker 1: may have had a red light camera between oh and

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Speaker 1: the gate? Was there a camera at the gate. What

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Speaker 1: do we know about that one mile stretch drew Cassie

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Speaker 1: between Jennifer's condominium, her brand new condominium, and where her

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Speaker 1: black Malibu was found. What we know at this time is,

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Speaker 1: at first there was no cameras. Unfortunately, new cameras went

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Speaker 1: up in Jennifer's complex two weeks after she was taken.

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Speaker 1: We also know that two weeks prior to Jennifer taking

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Speaker 1: the entire security force was let go at the complex

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Speaker 1: and new security was taken on because USO to change

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Speaker 1: from a rental to an ownership situation. The miles stretched

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Speaker 1: in between. There were no cameras in between the one

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Speaker 1: point two miles except four at the complex where Jennifer's

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Speaker 1: car was dropped. Now, we do have in our possession

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Speaker 1: sixty seven hours of film that law enforcement was able

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Speaker 1: to obtain from anywhere in any place they thought viable.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately the big box like Walgreens, CVS, the gas station,

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Speaker 1: their cameras only made it as far as their parking lots,

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Speaker 1: didn't even make it to like the sidewalks. So it's

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Speaker 1: unfortunately anything that we have outside The only viable film

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Speaker 1: that we have is what you see on Jennifer's website

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Speaker 1: and what have you of a person parking her car,

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Speaker 1: sitting in at thirty two seconds, wiping it down, getting out,

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Speaker 1: walking away, never looking back. Okay, I'm bringing in the

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Speaker 1: big guns. Joseph Scott Morgan joined me, professor forensics and

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Speaker 1: death investigator. Just got extra really hard for me to believe.

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Speaker 1: This guy did not leave any plants, did not leave

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Speaker 1: any DNA, nothing behind in that car. Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: And when you take a look at the image of

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Speaker 1: him walking by these fence posts, you know, and you

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Speaker 1: begin to look at how he's dressed. It's not like

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Speaker 1: he's got on long sleeves. He's you know, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about Florida obviously, but he's got on what appeared to

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Speaker 1: be maybe white pants, low quarter shoes. They're not work boots.

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Speaker 1: He's got on a short sleeved shirt, which means that

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Speaker 1: you've got bare skin running up to almost the elbow

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Speaker 1: where you've got the potential for transfer of evidence in

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Speaker 1: the form of maybe perhaps touch DNA or sweat or

400
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: hair something like that that could transferred. He's not wearing gloves,

401
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: and this is something else. It's kind of interesting about

402
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: the image that you see as he's walking by his hair.

403
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Speaker 1: It appears it looks as though you can see the

404
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: back of his head. It looks as though he's either

405
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: got like a bowl cut or his hair is pulled

406
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Speaker 1: up in like what would be a man bun. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of bulging out on the rear, so you think that,

408
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: you know, we're not talking about a bald guy here.

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Speaker 1: To me, it looks shaved up on the side from

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Speaker 1: the neck up above the ear, right behind the ear,

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00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,719
Speaker 1: and then it comes out like you're saying in a bag.

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Speaker 1: You know, it does. Another issue regarding the car and

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Speaker 1: the surveillance video, we get more information aside from those

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Speaker 1: two leads. Take a listen to our friend Peter van Zant.

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Speaker 1: The person could not be identified because the surveillance video

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Speaker 1: captured a photo every three seconds, and each time the

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00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 1: figure's face was obstructed by a fence post. That Kessie's

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Speaker 1: recruited private investigator Michael Tretta to help them conduct their

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00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: own investigation. Tretta learned from speaking with people who lived

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Speaker 1: in Jennifer's complex that construction workers were living in an

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00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: empty apartment just across from Jennifer. Okay, straight out to

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Speaker 1: Jennifer's uncle joining us, Bill Gilmore, who has just completed

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Speaker 1: an upcoming book aftermath of Jennifer Cassie's abduction. It took

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Speaker 1: the family having to hire a private investigator to find

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00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: out construction workers were basically camping out in an empty

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Speaker 1: apartment straight across from Jennifer Cassie. Have you ever heard

427
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: the phrase we covet that which we see? Yes, I

428
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: mean that. The interesting thing was that we were on

429
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: that property for days and weeks, and we saw all

430
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: kinds of things, and we would bring into the law enforcement,

431
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: to the management, and everybody denied everything. They always claimed

432
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: that these folks weren't living on property, but it was

433
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: clearly obvious that they were. So Unfortunately, you know, at

434
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: every turn people just shut down and obviously considering potential

435
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: liability issues. We can understand why, but it doesn't help

436
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 1: when you're looking to find somebody and that your loved one.

437
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: It's amazing to me to Matthew Mangino joining us high profile,

438
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: a lawyer that did the condo community, the apartment community

439
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: not know that. I think several of these were illegal immigrants.

440
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 1: Undocumented immigrants. We're living in an empty apartment directly across

441
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: from Jennifer Cassey well, that's that's really troubling that you

442
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: would have these possibly undocumented workers living in an apartment

443
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: in a complex where you know other people are paying

444
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: rent and are expecting a certain level of safety and security,

445
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: and you know, we don't know how many people are

446
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: living in there, We don't know the identities of these people.

447
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: This is all, you know, dangerous to bring people who

448
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 1: you do, who you don't know, who you can't identify,

449
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: to live or sleep in an unused apartment in the complex.

450
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 1: I certainly don't think that the residents there would would

451
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: want that or appreciate that. In fact, you know, Jennifer

452
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: had moved into this complex because she thought it was

453
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: safe because it was a gated community, and now all

454
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know, possibly undocumented workers or living

455
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: in an apartment across the hall, and there's a problem

456
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: with that. I don't care where they're from, but I

457
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: care what their history is. And Bill Gilmore, Jennifer's uncle.

458
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: When you have people basically squatting in an apartment and

459
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: they're undocumented, I don't know if they've got a ripe

460
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: conviction back home from wherever they came. I don't know

461
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: if they've got a mansel or conviction or Sawdomy conviction.

462
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I sure as heck don't want

463
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: them living across from one of my children. There's them

464
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: no way to trace them, we don't have their social

465
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: security or they're just seen, never a way to find

466
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: out who they are to question them about Jennifer's disappearance.

467
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: And isn't it true, Bill Gilmore, that Jennifer had actually

468
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: told her family she was uneasy, unhappy, nervous, felt intimidated

469
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: that all these guys were living right across from her. Well,

470
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: in terms of whether they were immediately across or not,

471
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: that I don't know, but I do know that the

472
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: workers that were coming into do a variety of maintenance

473
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: work and so forth. There was that leering, and she

474
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: was very concerned about the feeling that they were constantly

475
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: watching her. And she had called out, you know, to

476
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: my brother in law, I drew a few times on

477
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: that he obviously called management. So everybody was aware that

478
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: this was going on, and we then learned that there

479
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: were other females that lived in the complex that that

480
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: claimed the same thing. They felt the same way that

481
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: they were being blocked at and stared at and just

482
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: made to feel uncomfortable. You know how many times just

483
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: got Morgan Death investigator, have you handled a case? Many

484
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: that we have covered, And I'm thinking back many that

485
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: I investigated and prosecuted where the murder victims said, for instance,

486
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: if anything happens to me, he did it. It's almost

487
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: as if they have some kind of premonition. Here we

488
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: have Jennifer Kessey, this gorgeous young girl just starting out

489
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: in her life, telling her family and friends that the

490
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: workers there were making her feel very nervous and uneasy.

491
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: They were actually squatting, according to reports in the apartment complex. Yeah,

492
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: and you know you think about you think about this

493
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: as well. Many times workers like this will be very transient.

494
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: So if you've got a transient population where they're going

495
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: on to the next job site, for instance, you know

496
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: that work is done. And as Bill had mentioned just

497
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: a moment ago, there were a variety of things that

498
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: may have been being done around that area relative to

499
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,239
Speaker 1: two types of construction. So you've got different trades. You know,

500
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: maybe you've got people that are doing ceramic, maybe you've

501
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: got people that are doing hanging, I don't know, sheet

502
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: rock or whatever, and those groups kind of come and

503
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: go I think my big question with this, and since

504
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: these workers have constantly come up, We've been covering this

505
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: for a long time now, did they go to the

506
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: people that are actually doing the contracting, you know, those individuals,

507
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: and really put their feet to the fire about who

508
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: they were bringing in to do these works, this work,

509
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: who were their points of contact along the way. They're

510
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: not going to cooperate, Bill Gilmore, not that just Goot

511
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: Morgan is wrong. He's right, but there isn't no way

512
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: that apartment complex or condo complex, whatever you're gonna call it,

513
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: is ever going to admit yeah, we knew undocumented workers,

514
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: workers were squatting there. They're never going to say that.

515
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: And that was one of the biggest frustrations is that

516
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: the things were so obvious. I mean, like, as the

517
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: other gentleman just said, there's panel vans all over the place,

518
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: and so you know, your mind immediately moves to the

519
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: fact that think if a panel van happened to be

520
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: parked right next to her car and she's coming out

521
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: of her complex and get ready where her back turned

522
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: opened up her own car, if the panel door was opened,

523
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: and again, this is going on every day, so you're

524
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: not necessarily paying attention to it because you're you're expecting

525
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: to see workers there, but they could have easily been

526
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: pulled into the van. And that was what concerned us

527
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: in the very beginning, is why weren't those people and

528
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: the contractors being looked at crime stories With Nancy Grace.

529
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: Jennifer's father, Drew tells me that Jennifer said, there are

530
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: a lot of workers here, and whenever I walk to

531
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: my car, they stop what they're doing and they just

532
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: look and stare at me. Walk into my car right there.

533
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: To Karen's stark, she's basically telling us from beyond the

534
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: grave what happened to her. That's right, Nancy, She's definitely

535
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: afraid of these men. And I wanted to add that

536
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure somebody else also complained. Did that? Then? Yes,

537
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: six other women, and they had keys. And I think

538
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: that one of them even had been working in Jennifer's

539
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: apartment or was familiar with it. What about that, Bill Gilmore,

540
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: Is that true one of them I was working in

541
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: her apartment? Well, they had I mean, obviously the folks

542
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: that are associated with the ownership, the people are doing

543
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: maintenance had keys to get in and out. Of the unit,

544
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: so they could be doing the maintenance work, you know

545
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: the punch list items that have been reported to them. Now,

546
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: typically they would give you advanced notice, but I think

547
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: there was an opportunity or two where they came when

548
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: she was still there unexpected, or stay when she was

549
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: in the condo. She was certainly made to feel uncomfortable

550
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: as well. Now, according to another woman that lived there

551
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: named Colleen, and we're not revealing her last name, she said,

552
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: and I quote, when I would come home from work,

553
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: there would be a large group of men outside drinking,

554
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: and whenever I would have to walk past them, there

555
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: would be comments or uncomfortable steers. It wasn't a great feeling.

556
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: I didn't like it. So we know that other women

557
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: were going through the same thing. Another phenomena. Bill Gilmour

558
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: is joining me. This is Jennifer's uncle who has just

559
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: completed a book about to come out aftermath of Jennifer,

560
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 1: Cassie's abduction and Uncle's inspiring journey and other stories of hope. Bill,

561
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 1: I have sound and I'm not happy to report this

562
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: that very often criminals will act when they're in a

563
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: group and do things they would never do on their own.

564
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: You get a group of these undocumented construction workers. They're squatting,

565
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: they're they're drinking, they're watching her back and forth, leering

566
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: insane comments. Two of them may attack Jennifer together, when

567
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: if they had been on their own, that would never

568
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: have happened. And I can imagine that that would be true. Again,

569
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: it's there's so much of this story that it's disturbing,

570
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: and here we are, almost seventeen years later, still talking

571
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: about it without really much in the way of answers,

572
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: And a lot of this should have been addressed in

573
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: those early days and weeks. Tell me what led you

574
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: to write your book bill Well number one. Immediately following that,

575
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: I took stock in my own life and I began

576
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: to realize that my life was an absolute mess. And

577
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: it's funny how they say that pain is God's megaphone.

578
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: It's true, and in this particular case, Jennifer's abduction just

579
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: brought me to my knees to begin to really reflect

580
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: on the things that were most important in my life.

581
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: And as I shared in the in the Fox News Racle,

582
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: literally I prayed for God to take my life because

583
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: I said I had made a mess of it. But

584
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: Jennifer deserved her life. She deserved to have the life

585
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: that she had planned, and as you had said earlier,

586
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: she had everything moving in the right direction. And so

587
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: soon after that, you know, I just began a journey

588
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 1: of life transformation. And then during COVID, of course, as

589
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: we were all sheltering in place and shut down and

590
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: physically isolated and socially distancing from people, I realized that

591
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: we are living in a time of escalation in terms

592
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: of help of this hopelessness, fear, anxiety, and I wanted

593
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: to be a person to inspire hope. And so that's

594
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: what really propelled me to write this book, is to

595
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: begin to share that despite the circumstances that we can

596
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: find ourselves in life, we can find our way through

597
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: to piece joy, hope, and I want to share that.

598
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: And I'm also sharing some stories of others that inspired

599
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,399
Speaker 1: me along the less sixteen plus years as well. But

600
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: as I said to Joyce and Drew when I was

601
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: visiting with them back on July fourth week, that I

602
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: firmly believe that if this book can be read by

603
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 1: the people, the person or people that were directly involved

604
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: in Jennifer's case, that they would hopefully learn that despite

605
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 1: whatever it is that they've done, that does not mean

606
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: that's the last chapter of their life. They can be

607
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: redeemed and that they can certainly find a new beginning,

608
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: but they have to come clean and they have to

609
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: finish whatever the consequences are. But I will also say

610
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: to your listeners that there are so many there's thousands

611
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 1: of these stories, and so the impact is not just

612
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: for the people it's personal to me with Jennifer, but

613
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: also I would like to hope that somebody anywhere that's

614
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: involved in some type of humus crime would read this

615
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: and realize that no matter what you've done in life,

616
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,399
Speaker 1: it can be restored, it can be rescued. Wow. Bill

617
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: Gilmore joining us. This is Jennifer's uncle, author of Aftermath

618
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: of Jennifer Kessy's Abduction. I pray that you are right,

619
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: Bill Gilmore. The tip line is eight six six eight

620
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 1: to three eight eleven fifty three eight six six eight

621
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: three eight eleven fifty three, or I advise the Kessie

622
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: family tip line nine four one two zero one four

623
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: zero zero nine repeat nine four one to zero one

624
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: four zero zero nine. There is a fifteen thousand dollars

625
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: Three Boys, Nancy Grace crime Story, Signing off good bye friend,