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Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Friday, November fourteenth. Yesterday, two executions

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Speaker 1: were planned in the United States. In one, the guy

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Speaker 1: got clemency but still ended up in the hospital, and

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Speaker 1: in the other, the guy was asked if he had

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Speaker 1: any final words, and he gave only a one word answer,

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Speaker 1: and with that, everybody, welcome to this episode of Amy

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Speaker 1: and TJ. Kind of an extraordinary week robes when it

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Speaker 1: comes to executions in the extraordinary year, I should say,

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Speaker 1: but even within this year, this was an extraordinary week

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Speaker 1: in last night, extraordinary night, that's right.

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Speaker 2: We had so many headlines coming out of death Row yesterday,

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Speaker 2: some from Oklahoma and the other from Florida. And what

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Speaker 2: happened we obviously have this is This is I don't know,

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Speaker 2: episode number three. Perhaps we have taken to actually focus

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Speaker 2: some of our attention to Tremaine Wood's case, but this

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Speaker 2: is an exceptional situation where we had, in an extremely

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Speaker 2: rare move, the governor commuting his death sentence one minute

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Speaker 2: you said you checked all the local reports.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it. I mean that it's being officially

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Speaker 1: given as one minute before ten am local time, which

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Speaker 1: is when he was scheduled to die. The call came

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Speaker 1: in that the governor had commuted his sentence. Look, it's

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Speaker 1: better than coming at ten on one, But my god,

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Speaker 1: can you imagine. So that was high, high and really broke.

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Speaker 1: We talk about the high drama of that, even it

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Speaker 1: was high drama last week even at his parole board

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Speaker 1: hearing when we watched that whole thing live.

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Speaker 2: Yes, everything that happened in his case was exceptionally rare.

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Speaker 1: It was rare for the parole board.

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Speaker 2: To recommend clemency, and then even rarer for a governor

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Speaker 2: to step in and actually grant clemency. That is almost

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Speaker 2: unheard of. And so with all of that, you would

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Speaker 2: think certainly cost for celebration relief at the very least

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Speaker 2: for Tremaine Wood and his family. So how did Wood

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Speaker 2: then end up in the hospital. We're going to get

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Speaker 2: into all of that. And we also have some incredible

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Speaker 2: details coming out of Florida, which has now executed a

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Speaker 2: record setting sixteenth inmate this year alone. That is double

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Speaker 2: that state's previous high. Their previous record was eight, which

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Speaker 2: they reached in nineteen eighty four and in twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 2: so they have now doubled their execution rate. And his

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Speaker 2: story this inmate story is well. When you hear what

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Speaker 2: he was convicted of and what he admitted to doing.

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Speaker 2: This guy was as monstrous as they come. These two

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Speaker 2: scheduled executions, the prisoners involved in them, and what they

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Speaker 2: were accused of doing, and their role in all of

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Speaker 2: it couldn't have been further from one another in a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways. But will begin with what happened with Tremaine.

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Speaker 2: I woke up this morning and you said, did you

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Speaker 2: hear what happened to Tremaine Wood?

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Speaker 1: I got nervous, to be honest with you. I got

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Speaker 1: a little My heart jumped a little because of the

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Speaker 1: time we have spent now with his mother, his nieces,

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Speaker 1: people who love him and say he is that important

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Speaker 1: to their lives. We know how much they were fighting

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Speaker 1: to get this clemency to think it finally came, and

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Speaker 1: then something happened. So ropes at what I've said was

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Speaker 1: the headlines all said the same thing. Tremaine Wood found

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Speaker 1: unresponsive in his cell. That was the headline. Now, after

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Speaker 1: you and I went through a kind of an emotional

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Speaker 1: morning or even week with the family, you could argue

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Speaker 1: and hearing all this thinking a minute before he got clemency, Wow,

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Speaker 1: what a relief, and he'd go, oh no, My first

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Speaker 1: thought was, oh.

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Speaker 2: No, yeah, the stress of it all. Like, you know,

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Speaker 2: we talked about what it must have been like. We

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Speaker 2: talked for him and for his family, but none of

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Speaker 2: us could have possibly imagined. So yes, Wood was taken

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Speaker 2: to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: So he Basically, what we've.

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Speaker 2: Gotten from the Department of Correction is that after he

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Speaker 2: with a minute despair, his death sentence commuted to a

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Speaker 2: life in parole sentence, he met with his attorney for hours,

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Speaker 2: That's what we were told, and then he went down

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Speaker 2: to go take a nap, basically after all of that,

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Speaker 2: and he said when he laid down to sleep, the

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Speaker 2: next thing he remembered was waking up in the infirmary

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Speaker 2: with his head busted and his lip busted.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds a certain way. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: you passed out and fell off the bed and maybe

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Speaker 1: God busted up. Now, they came out and said, and

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Speaker 1: he said as well, at least according to the statement

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Speaker 1: that he gave them, so nobody else in the cell.

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Speaker 1: You certainly, Yeah, it's prison. All things can happen, and

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Speaker 1: it just so happened that on this day he ends

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Speaker 1: up injured and in the hospital. It sounds suspicious, but

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Speaker 1: it appeared, and they did say that it was called

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Speaker 1: You said it several times. You use the word stress,

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Speaker 1: and I can't believe. They say, yeah, dehydration and stress

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Speaker 1: caused this medical event. And I don't know what. He

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Speaker 1: hadn't eaten anything at least since the night before. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what fluids they were given him during the

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Speaker 1: day before. He was about to be executed, So he

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Speaker 1: was in tough shape, can you.

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Speaker 2: I was just trying to get my head around the

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Speaker 2: fact that you said the last time he had eaten.

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Speaker 2: The last time he had eaten was his final meal

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Speaker 2: that he had to request months earlier. He's literally sitting

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Speaker 2: down eating what he believed in that moment to be

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Speaker 2: the final things he will ever eat. So, yeah, he

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Speaker 2: was hungry, he was dehydrated, he was stressed, and so

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Speaker 2: it is interesting his head and his lip robusted. So

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Speaker 2: it did seem suspicious, but they believe the other alternative

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Speaker 2: would be if no one was in his room, that

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Speaker 2: he did it to himself. But they don't believe that.

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Speaker 2: They believe this literally was the result of passing out

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Speaker 2: and falling off his bunk.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you we talked about and we saw

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Speaker 1: the stress on his relatives' faces and just their bodies

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Speaker 1: and just their they're weak and just not sleeping and

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Speaker 1: all these things. So imagine how it feels for him.

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Speaker 1: Imagine how it felt with him the night before, right,

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Speaker 1: you just said, eating your final meal and then going

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Speaker 1: to bed that night, and then waking up the next

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Speaker 1: morning like all of this is struck, even slept. But

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Speaker 1: then you go, it's nine o'clock in the morning, your execation,

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Speaker 1: qution is at ten. Now it's nine fifteen. Now it's

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Speaker 1: nine thirty, it's nine forty five, it's nine fifty, it's

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Speaker 1: nine fifty five.

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Speaker 2: Still haven't heard from the governor.

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Speaker 1: He gets to nine fifty five. I guess that's it.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine what that feels like and then get

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Speaker 1: to call and say, actually, you're good.

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Speaker 2: And the relief, the absolute pendulum swing of being at

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Speaker 2: the worst possible stress level you could imagine anybody. It's

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Speaker 2: one thing to know you're going to die, and to

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Speaker 2: know the hour you're going to die, to know the

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Speaker 2: minute you're going to die. How many people even know

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Speaker 2: what that stress is like, and then to have it

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Speaker 2: all be Hey, never mind, you can live out the

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Speaker 2: rest of your days behind bars.

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Speaker 1: He not to nine fifty nine.

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Speaker 2: He was probably at stress level as high as they get.

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Speaker 1: I cannot imagine.

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Speaker 2: So, yes, what does that do to your body when

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Speaker 2: you then swing in completely the other direction? And so

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Speaker 2: when he finally was discharged for the hospital, we were

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Speaker 2: very happy to report that he was finally able to

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Speaker 2: talk to his family and a spiritual advisor. According to

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Speaker 2: the Department of Corrections, and by the way, he is

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Speaker 2: only the sixth condemned person to receive clemency in the

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Speaker 2: state of Oklahoma in modern history. That just tells you

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Speaker 2: how rare it was what happened yesterday. We're going to

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Speaker 2: head to Florida now and Brian Jennings a much different story.

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Speaker 2: He died by lethal injection last night at six twenty

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Speaker 2: pm Eastern time. He is the forty second inmate put

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Speaker 2: to death this year in the United States. That's the

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Speaker 2: number that hasn't been seen since twenty twelve. But this

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Speaker 2: was not a man who I didn't hear one person

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Speaker 2: fighting to save his life or anyone who said, because

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Speaker 2: of his crime that he should somehow his execution be stayed.

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Speaker 2: I never saw one article In fact, I saw folks

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Speaker 2: who are primarily anti death penalty actually saying this is

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Speaker 2: one I don't mind seeing dying's.

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Speaker 1: You could only make this argument, I suppose if you're

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Speaker 1: anti death penalty. There were no one advocating out there

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Speaker 1: for him. He's been a good prisoner, or any questions

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Speaker 1: about the crime. It was not that, And I hate that.

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Speaker 1: We know we'll have to speak on a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but it's just the crime is so horrific that it's

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Speaker 1: hard to even repeat. But this guy was.

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Speaker 2: Convicted up when I was reading and anyone who's read

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Speaker 2: the case of this specific case, Brian Jennings is the

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Speaker 2: person who was put to death. But his crime was

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Speaker 2: against a six year old girl named Becky Kunash. But

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Speaker 2: this is crazy. He was sixty six years old, a

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Speaker 2: former marine. He admitted to this horrific crime. But it

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Speaker 2: happened TJ in nineteen seventy nine, forty six years after

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Speaker 2: he committed this horrific crime. He was executed yesterday. He

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Speaker 2: outlived Becky's father, He outlived both state attorneys who prosecuted him.

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Speaker 2: He outlived three judges who presided over his case. And

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Speaker 2: I say three judges because this was a case that

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Speaker 2: went on and on and on and literally tortured the family.

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Speaker 1: Well, and this is one that the folks ask about,

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Speaker 1: like what is Florida doing, And the Santas said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: some of these things have been on the books for

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Speaker 1: thirty years. We need to give justice, we need to

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Speaker 1: see this through, we need finality for these families. That's

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Speaker 1: an argument he's making. So it's people will wonder why

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Speaker 1: we just saw this such an uptick. Part of it

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Speaker 1: was a mindset like a dysantis. But also drugs are available.

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of places that stopped doing executions

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Speaker 1: because they didn't have the proper drugs or methods to

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Speaker 1: do so, so here we are. It all come together

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Speaker 1: this year and then but seventy nine, that was That's

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Speaker 1: pretty incredible to think he just now faces the punishment

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Speaker 1: he was given for a crime forty years ago.

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Speaker 2: It's one of the longest periods of time I've ever

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Speaker 2: seen anyone serve on death row. He was convicted and

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Speaker 2: sentenced to death in nineteen eighty, so a year after

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Speaker 2: the crime was committed, and then in nineteen eighty two

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Speaker 2: as well, but both of those convictions were overturned on appeal.

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Speaker 2: So then he was again found guilty and sentenced to

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Speaker 2: death in nineteen eighty six. That conviction finally stuck. But

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Speaker 2: this is this crime is horrific, and I want to

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Speaker 2: get into what happened yesterday first, this execution, this is rare.

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Speaker 2: We don't hear this very often. According to the Department

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Speaker 2: of Corrections, the execution took place without incident. There were

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Speaker 2: no complications.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we don't hear that often. We don't. Now, I

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Speaker 1: didn't see who was possibly there or anything with him,

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Speaker 1: or what audience, if you will, or witnesses I should say,

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Speaker 1: we're there, I don't. Did you see that he had

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Speaker 1: family or anybody there? I didn't. I just I just

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Speaker 1: saw that.

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Speaker 2: The local reporter said that when asked if he had

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Speaker 2: any last words seconds before the lethal injection, Jennings reportedly

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Speaker 2: shouted no loudly. So that's that was the only color

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Speaker 2: I got in terms of who was there and what happened.

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Speaker 2: We also were told his last meal was a cheeseburger,

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Speaker 2: French fries, Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: And it's done. It's kind of This was a look

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Speaker 1: we take seriously anytime you have a state sanctioned death right.

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Speaker 1: This is no small thing to take a life. It's

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Speaker 1: part of our system. But it's I don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: tough anytime to just say we're better off for to

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Speaker 1: celebrate the death of someone. Other people will see it

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Speaker 1: that way. It's not necessarily a celebration of a death.

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Speaker 1: But don't mind or advocating for this person being gone now.

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Speaker 1: It's it's tough. It's a debate we have. But this

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Speaker 1: is a guy, and the crime is not one that

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Speaker 1: anybody's defending.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and we're going to get into some of the

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Speaker 2: details of the crime. And also, this is a guy,

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Speaker 2: despite admitting committing this horrific act, he tried very very

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Speaker 2: hard to stay alive nine appeals and was fighting until

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Speaker 2: the end to not actually walk into that execution chamber,

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Speaker 2: which happened last night.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into the.

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Speaker 2: Details of this case and the ripple effects of a murder,

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Speaker 2: especially on this family more than forty years ago, and

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Speaker 2: continuing our conversation of what was pretty much a hell

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Speaker 2: of a day on death row yesterday in South Carolina.

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Speaker 2: Ex excuse me, that's this evening. But in Oklahoma, Tremaine

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Speaker 2: Wood was actually allowed to have his death sentence commuted

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Speaker 2: to a life sentence, but he ended up in the

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Speaker 2: hospital with all the stress and pressure of yesterday, which

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Speaker 2: is unimaginable, literally waiting for the governor until the minute

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Speaker 2: before his scheduled execution to learn that, in fact he

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Speaker 2: was going to be able to remain alive and stay

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Speaker 2: in prison for the rest of him his life. But

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Speaker 2: in Florida, a man who has been known as a monster,

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Speaker 2: after forty six years after the original crime was committed,

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Speaker 2: Brian Jennings was killed in the State of Florida, number

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Speaker 2: sixteen this year for the State of Florida. But his crime,

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Speaker 2: as we mentioned, happened forty six years ago, and it

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Speaker 2: was a heinous one. This little girl, six year old Becky,

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Speaker 2: this was a detail that really got me. Ironically, the

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Speaker 2: thing that made this little girl feel safe at night

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Speaker 2: is what led to her death. Her night light. Her

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Speaker 2: father said that she always wanted to sleep with a

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Speaker 2: night light, and Jennings told Belie that is what attracted

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Speaker 2: him to her window. He was twenty years old. He

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Speaker 2: was staying with his mom while on leave. He was

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Speaker 2: a marine and a local high school dropout, and he

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Speaker 2: was awaiting his next set of orders. He said, he

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Speaker 2: went out drinking and he just ended up outside six

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Speaker 2: year old Becky Cnash's bedroom window, and that is when

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Speaker 2: he went in. He took her, and he took her

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Speaker 2: to a nearby canal, and he did terrible things to her,

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Speaker 2: eventually killing her. And then the next day he confessed

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Speaker 2: to the crime, saying, quote, he always had this thing

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Speaker 2: to look into windows. Isn't that so frightening as a

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Speaker 2: parent to think what you're doing to comfort your child

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Speaker 2: actually led to her death. It's unimaginable.

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Speaker 1: We all do the best you can do, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: there are scary people out there and monsters, and this

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Speaker 1: sometimes is nothing you can do but your best. It's

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Speaker 1: no way we don't need to stop using night lights.

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Speaker 1: We don't need to. There's another family somewhere leave sleeping

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Speaker 1: tonight with the doors open, the windows up and with

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Speaker 1: no problem, right, and somebody else is going to go

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Speaker 1: to bed tonight and punch in the code on the

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Speaker 1: alarm and somebody's going to break in and terrorize them.

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Speaker 1: He just do the best you can. And yes, it's

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Speaker 1: got to be gutting and always was for that family.

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Speaker 1: But this just r randomness of this is so scary.

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Speaker 1: We talk. It makes me think about those Idaho students,

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Speaker 1: those four Idaho students didn't know this killer comes in

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Speaker 1: and kills them. Just the randomness of somebody who just

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Speaker 1: decides to do you harm is the most terrifying part

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Speaker 1: of a story like this.

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Speaker 2: It's so true and can you imagine having lived through

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Speaker 2: that nightmare of his Sorry Becky's mother came in the

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Speaker 2: next morning, eight hours later after she had been taken,

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Speaker 2: to see that she was gone. The window was open,

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Speaker 2: the curtains were fluttering in the wind. I mean, just

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Speaker 2: to think, where is my little girl? And then to

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Speaker 2: have to go through three trials, not one, not two,

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Speaker 2: but three trials reliving that nightmare of their daughter being

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Speaker 2: taken and tortured and murdered over and over again. And

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Speaker 2: it's not surprising that their marriage did not survive it.

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Speaker 2: I was reading some quotes from earlier reports from her mom, Patricia,

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Speaker 2: and she said, he took my baby, my husband, my family,

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Speaker 2: and my home. Is just about the murder of one child.

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Speaker 2: It was so much more than that and just so devastating.

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Speaker 2: Her dad said, I've killed him a million times in

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Speaker 2: my sleep. I was just imagining being those parents and

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Speaker 2: sitting in that trial and sitting in the same room

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Speaker 2: as the man who killed my child.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what the family feels today. Finale,

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Speaker 1: Is it over? Is it done? Is it I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there's some peace they had to find way

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Speaker 1: before this.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and we mentioned her father, Robert died at the

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Speaker 2: age of fifty two. He had always sworn he was

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Speaker 2: going to be at the execution. He was going to

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Speaker 2: watch this man who took his baby die. That did

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Speaker 2: not come to fruition because of the lengthy amount of

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Speaker 2: time it took for justice to be served in this case.

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Speaker 2: We do know that her mother and she had an

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Speaker 2: older sister, did not attend the execution, and they've really

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Speaker 2: laid low since then. They moved back to Cleveland, where

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Speaker 2: they were originally from and just tried to live as

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Speaker 2: quiet and as peaceful of a life as possible. But

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Speaker 2: certainly it's just a reminder of just the ripple effects

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Speaker 2: and the death station from violent crimes like this. It's

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Speaker 2: not just one family, it's an entire community, and there

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Speaker 2: are lessons to be learned through all of it. But

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Speaker 2: we always appreciate you listening to us. We thank you

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Speaker 2: for your time today. I'm Amy Roeboch alongside TJ. Holmes,

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Speaker 2: we will talk to you soon.