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Speaker 1: Chloe Cole was twelve years old when she decided she

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Speaker 1: was transgender. A year later, at thirteen, she went on

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Speaker 1: puberty blockers and testosterone. At fifteen, she had major surgery,

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Speaker 1: getting a double misectomy. Only a year later, at sixteen,

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Speaker 1: she realized she had made a horrible mistake. Now she's eighteen,

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Speaker 1: she's de transitioned, and she's speaking out, trying to protect

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Speaker 1: children from being put through what she went through, and

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Speaker 1: she joins me on this episode to discuss her personal

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Speaker 1: journey and why adults are pushing young people to transition.

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Speaker 1: Stay tuned for this can't missinterview with Chloe Cole. Chloe,

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Speaker 1: it's an honor to have you on the show. I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to tell you upfront that I really respect

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Speaker 1: what you're doing and just trying to bring awareness. I

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Speaker 1: know that it is scary. It's hard to stand up

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Speaker 1: against the mob, so just want to thank you for

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Speaker 1: your courage in doing so.

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Speaker 2: And thank you for having me. Lisa.

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Speaker 1: What's that been like to stand up against the mob

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Speaker 1: with this.

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Speaker 3: I never really expected to be doing anything like this

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Speaker 3: in my life. I mean throughout most of my childhood

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Speaker 3: and teenhood, I was like a really shy kid, and

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Speaker 3: I was kind of like on the artistic side, so

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Speaker 3: I mostly just like kept myself and I thought that

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Speaker 3: I would pursue I would pursue a career in something

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Speaker 3: artistic related, which I probably will down the road. I

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Speaker 3: never thought that I would ever be doing something like

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Speaker 3: public facing or public speaking. It's been quite the adjustment

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Speaker 3: over the past year, but I found that I actually

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Speaker 3: really enjoy doing it. I get a lot more support

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Speaker 3: than I do backlash, and that's really nice. But I

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Speaker 3: get my fair share of hate just for talking about

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Speaker 3: my experience having conditioned as a kid and what it's

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Speaker 3: been like going through that as a kid and coming

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Speaker 3: back from it.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad to hear you're getting more support than hate.

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Speaker 1: That's comforting. I'm glad to hear that. You know. Before

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Speaker 1: we get into your story specifically, I wanted to ask you,

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Speaker 1: why do you think there is such a push right

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Speaker 1: now to encourage young people to transition.

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Speaker 3: The narrative right now is that the younger you start transitioning,

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Speaker 3: the better, because when you start a kid on puberty

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Speaker 3: blockers and hormones and cross sex hormones, then if there

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Speaker 3: is fork, they won't have the undesired secondary sex characteristics

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Speaker 3: that would usually pop up during puberty, and therefore that

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Speaker 3: won't cause them any further dysphoria or discomfort with their body.

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Speaker 3: But that narrative isn't really take an account just how

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Speaker 3: difficult it really is to transition as a minor, and

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Speaker 3: how dangerous these treatments are. The younger you are and

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Speaker 3: while you're developing.

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Speaker 1: How dangerous are these treatments.

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Speaker 3: They call it life saving care, but it's really life

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Speaker 3: threatening if anything, and it's absolutely not care. I mean,

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Speaker 3: they say that things like puberty blockers and cross sex

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Speaker 3: hormones are reversible, but none of the treatments that I

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Speaker 3: have been on, which I've had, I've had my puberty blocks,

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Speaker 3: I've been onto stosterone, and I underwent in double miseectomy,

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Speaker 3: none of them were safe, and absolutely none of them were.

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Speaker 3: I'll never be able to get that lost growth or

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Speaker 3: my breast back ever. And on top of that, I'm

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Speaker 3: experiencing very serious complications from all three.

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Speaker 1: What are those complications?

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Speaker 3: While while I was on the blockers, because I was

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Speaker 3: already a few years in a pure be it basically

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Speaker 3: put me into a chemically induced state of menopause, and

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Speaker 3: so I was very lethargic, and I had a reduced appetite,

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Speaker 3: and I was kind of depressed throughout the day because

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Speaker 3: I didn't really have much energy. And on top of that,

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Speaker 3: I was I was experiencing menopausal symptoms hot flashes and

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Speaker 3: itching all over my body while I was thirteen, and

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Speaker 3: that's something that normally I would have not experienced until

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Speaker 3: I hit maybe my fifties and sixties, as I actually

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Speaker 3: went into a natural menopause, But the disosterone.

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Speaker 2: I haven't gotten.

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Speaker 3: A fertility test, but it's very likely that I might

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Speaker 3: have impacted my fertility in some way because my hips

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Speaker 3: were not expanding and developing as they should have been

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Speaker 3: through my puberty. I don't know what effect could have

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Speaker 3: had on things like the quality of my eggs or

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Speaker 3: the overall health of my reproductive system, but I was

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Speaker 3: told that it might cause atrophy in my vaginal area

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Speaker 3: and my fertility. Granted, I was told this when I

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Speaker 3: was only thirteen years old, and I didn't really know

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Speaker 3: what any of that meant. I wasn't even sexually active yet,

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Speaker 3: and I was I didn't even know what things like

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Speaker 3: ovulation or the four stages of the menstrual cycle where

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Speaker 3: I only knew that there was a period and somehow

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Speaker 3: I could get pregnant after it started. I didn't really

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Speaker 3: fully understand how things like that worked because I was

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Speaker 3: a kid, and because I didn't have I wasn't far

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Speaker 3: enough and to my education to have any comprehensive education

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Speaker 3: on things like that.

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Speaker 2: I was really young.

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Speaker 3: And it also I wasn't informed that that atrophy would

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Speaker 3: actually spread to the rest of my reproductive system and

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Speaker 3: even organs in the pelvic area that are outside of

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Speaker 3: that system, which it ended up affecting my urinary.

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Speaker 2: Tract as well.

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Speaker 3: After a while, I started to take experience a lot

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Speaker 3: of urinary attract infections and then eventually I start getting

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Speaker 3: blood and even tissue in my urine, which has since stopped.

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Speaker 2: I still do have some issues.

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Speaker 3: With the urinary tract, like not being able to fully

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Speaker 3: empty my bladder and the misseectomy, I think is where

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Speaker 3: some of the worst complications come from. I mean, all

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Speaker 3: will never be able to breastfeed obviously, now that the

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Speaker 3: tissue is gone from my body, I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: be able to grow it back by any means. And

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Speaker 3: they severed my areolas and the stalk of the nipples,

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Speaker 3: so I'm never going to be able to breastfeed. I've

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Speaker 3: also had some nerve damage because of that, and luckily

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Speaker 3: it's not too bad, but I've lost pretty much all

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Speaker 3: the erogenous sensation that I would have had in there.

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Speaker 3: So I've had a large part of myself as an

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Speaker 3: adult woman, a large part of my sexuality, of myself

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Speaker 3: as an aspiring mother, taken from me. And now thes

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Speaker 3: the skin grafts that they use and the surgery are

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Speaker 3: leaking fluid every day, every moment, and I have no

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Speaker 3: idea what the flute is. I can't really do anything

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Speaker 3: about it because I've tried to go to my to

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Speaker 3: try and figure out what it is, and he gave

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Speaker 3: me advice that actually made it worse, and he was

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Speaker 3: very dismissive of my concerns and all these complications that

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Speaker 3: I've had. I haven't gotten any help from my doctors since.

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Speaker 1: My heart breaks hearing you, you know, talk about that

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Speaker 1: and just laying out what you went through because you

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Speaker 1: were a baby. I mean, I'm thirty eight years old,

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Speaker 1: so a twelve year old in my eyes is a

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Speaker 1: child as a baby. You were thirteen when they put

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Speaker 1: you on puberty blockers. Fifteen when you underwent a double misseectomy.

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Speaker 1: Nobody at that age thinks about the future in this way.

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Speaker 1: Nobody at the age can comprehend a major surgery like that.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like these adults preyed on you?

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Speaker 2: This is absolutely a form of preying on me.

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Speaker 3: They gave me a fraudulent treatment which was eatrogenic and

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Speaker 3: cause more issues down the line, and failed to treat

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Speaker 3: my original diagnosis. And it was under the guise of

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Speaker 3: life saving care, gender affirming care that this would resolve

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Speaker 3: my generous for you and help me to become my

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Speaker 3: true self as a man.

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Speaker 2: But that never happened.

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Speaker 3: And while I truly did believe that I was a man,

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Speaker 3: nothing that I could have ever done to my body,

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Speaker 3: no matter what injections I took, no matter what drugs

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Speaker 3: I was on, no matter what parts of my body

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Speaker 3: I had taken off or stitchback on, nothing would have

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Speaker 3: made me a man, because that's something that's determined at

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Speaker 3: the moment of conception.

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Speaker 1: And it's an emotional blackmail, is what I'm hearing. Because

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Speaker 1: they go to parents and they tell them that you know,

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Speaker 1: you're otherwise going to commit suicide if they don't go

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Speaker 1: along with this. And then they go to kids and say,

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Speaker 1: you're not who you were born to be. You're not right.

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Speaker 1: You have to change yourself in such a substantial way

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Speaker 1: to undergo surgery. I mean, so it's an emotional blackmail,

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Speaker 1: is what it is.

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Speaker 2: That is exactly what they told my parents.

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Speaker 1: What do your parents think of this? Now? You know?

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Speaker 1: Where are they on all of this?

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Speaker 3: They feel like they've been duped by the doctors as

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Speaker 3: much as I have. I feel like I really feel

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Speaker 3: like they were, even if they didn't experience it directly,

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Speaker 3: they were just as hurt through this tree. It was

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Speaker 3: really hard for them to watch me try and become

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Speaker 3: somebody that I wasn't and just get worse over time.

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Speaker 3: And they were correct at the start. They thought that

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Speaker 3: this was just a result of distress I had from

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Speaker 3: things that weren't necessarily related to my sex, especially because

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Speaker 3: of my difficulties growing up with school and interacting with

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Speaker 3: my peers and making friends and not really fitting in

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Speaker 3: with other kids my age, especially the girls. They thought

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Speaker 3: of it as a mental health issue and that by

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Speaker 3: sending me to a therapist that it would be worked

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Speaker 3: on and that this issue would resolve. But the doctors

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Speaker 3: never did that they never went into any of the

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Speaker 3: underlying causes behind my gener dys for you, and instead

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Speaker 3: they just affirmed this false identity. I had this idea,

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Speaker 3: this delusion I had that I wasn't my parents' daughter,

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Speaker 3: I was actually their son.

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Speaker 1: You had mentioned the mental health aspect of this isn't

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Speaker 1: what you think is going on with a lot of

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Speaker 1: these young people who you know are just facing confusion

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Speaker 1: and trying to figure themselves out.

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Speaker 3: That's absolutely where it comes from. There is kind of

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Speaker 3: a social contagion aspect to it. None of my peers

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Speaker 3: were transgender at the time that I started transitioning, and

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Speaker 3: I didn't learn about this from school or in class.

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Speaker 3: I never heard about things like gender sexuality in the

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Speaker 3: classroom ever, and I graduated just last year. It was

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Speaker 3: entirely from social media that I learned about this from.

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Speaker 3: I was using the Internet a lot because, like I said,

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Speaker 3: I didn't really get along with my peers, and I

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Speaker 3: didn't feel like I had much in the way of

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Speaker 3: the community, and I wasn't particularly close to any of

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Speaker 3: my family members, probably due to my age difference between

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Speaker 3: me and the rest of my siblings. But I also

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Speaker 3: wasn't like any evolved in any sports or clubs at school,

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Speaker 3: and so I didn't really feel like I had anywhere

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Speaker 3: to turn, and I was also being bullied. I decided

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Speaker 3: that I would take to the Internet and just find

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Speaker 3: my community on there, and the screen certainly was a

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Speaker 3: lot more engaging than what I had going on in

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Speaker 3: real life in my classes with my peers and elsewhere.

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Speaker 3: It didn't help that my school district was handing out

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Speaker 3: lap pops to kids at the youngest grade levels possible,

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Speaker 3: and as soon as they hit fifth grade they get

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Speaker 3: to take them home. Throughout most of my school years,

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Speaker 3: they were not using any firewall protections or any programs

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Speaker 3: to like block off things like social media programs, so

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Speaker 3: you could access just about any app or service you wanted.

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Speaker 3: I then got my first phone when I was eleven,

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Speaker 3: and of course, because all my peers had one, they

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Speaker 3: were all using social media. That was the first place

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Speaker 3: I went to because I wanted to see what I

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Speaker 3: was missing out on, and I ended up browsing a

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Speaker 3: lot of communities around like the video games and cartoons

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Speaker 3: that I really liked, and that was how I discovered

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Speaker 3: the transgender community. I noticed that a lot of these

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Speaker 3: other young people who identified as transgender were very much

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Speaker 3: like me. They had a lot of the same interests,

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Speaker 3: like the shows I watched, and their feelings around themselves

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Speaker 3: and their body image, and just how they related to

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Speaker 3: other people, especially their same sex. I really felt like

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Speaker 3: I related to it, their struggles, their their upbringings, and

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Speaker 3: so I started to feel like a sense of belonging,

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Speaker 3: even though I wasn't really interacting with anybody directly in

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Speaker 3: the community at the time, I was mostly just browsing

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Speaker 3: these communities. I finally felt like I had an explanation

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Speaker 3: for why I felt so different from other kids my age,

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Speaker 3: and I really clung on to this explanation. I thought

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Speaker 3: that the reason why I didn't fit in with other kids,

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Speaker 3: why I was so awkward, why I was so boyish,

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Speaker 3: why I felt like I didn't even look like a girl,

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Speaker 3: was because I actually had the brain of a boy,

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Speaker 3: and it was just destiny.

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Speaker 2: For me to become one. That's it's kind of a

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Speaker 2: straight pipeline.

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Speaker 3: For these kids who don't necessarily conform to things like

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Speaker 3: gender roles, traditional gender roles, or don't really have much

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Speaker 3: of a community, aren't really close with their family or

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Speaker 3: their parents whose parents don't really bring them to church

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Speaker 3: or raise them with like a strict belief system, and

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Speaker 3: don't really make them grow up playing like sports or

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Speaker 3: playing an instrument, or fostering them encouraging them to build

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Speaker 3: up thrown hobbies as a means of building themselves when

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Speaker 3: they lack. When a kid lacks that sort of structure,

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Speaker 3: they'll still search for it in some other way and

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Speaker 3: they'll cling onto whatever they can find.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick commercial break more with

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Speaker 1: Chloe Coal. On the other side, it sounds like, you know,

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Speaker 1: young people just searching for for acceptance, you know, searching

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Speaker 1: for you know, as we all do when you're young

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Speaker 1: and trying to figure yourself out and you're trying to

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Speaker 1: figure life out and you're dealing with hormonal changes and

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Speaker 1: all these different things that happen as a young person.

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Speaker 1: You know, you had mentioned, you know, going on social media.

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Speaker 1: How big of a role do you think social media

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Speaker 1: plays in this increased you know, transitions that are happening

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Speaker 1: in the United States. It's what role does social media

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Speaker 1: have in all of this?

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's how a lot of kids are finding

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Speaker 3: out about this. It's very easy to find these communities.

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Speaker 3: I didn't find it wasn't directly presented to me as

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Speaker 3: soon as I started social media. It started for me

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Speaker 3: in communities, in fan bases around video games, shows, anime,

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Speaker 3: and musicians that I liked. A lot of the users

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Speaker 3: in those communities. There is a big overlot between being

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Speaker 3: in those communities and identifying as like as gay or bisexual,

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Speaker 3: or transgender or non binary. I think part of that

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Speaker 3: is a lot of the users in these communities are

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Speaker 3: just kind of offbeat kids who don't really have, like

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Speaker 3: I said, much of a community in real life or

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Speaker 3: a connection with their own family, and they don't really

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Speaker 3: feel like they have anybody to bond with over these

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Speaker 3: these series of media or these these musicians or these

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Speaker 3: interests that they have.

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Speaker 2: And these communities tend.

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Speaker 3: To be very liberal because of that, and so it

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Speaker 3: leads to acceptance of questioning, acceptance of just about anything

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Speaker 3: from sexuality to different lifestyles to.

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Speaker 2: The way that you identify.

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Speaker 1: You look at the timeline you know for you, So

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Speaker 1: you make this decision at twelve that I think I'm

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Speaker 1: a boy, thirteen puberty blockers, fifteen double miasectomy, regret it

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Speaker 1: a year later. I mean that is a very quick

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Speaker 1: timeline were there no professionals, no doctors, no one that

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Speaker 1: was like, you know what, Hey, maybe we should just

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Speaker 1: take a pause on this. You should think this through, Chloe,

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Speaker 1: You're so young. Were there any experts that were trying

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Speaker 1: to slow this down for you?

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Speaker 3: I had one doctor and it was the first uncrinologist

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Speaker 3: who had an appointment with He said that I was

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Speaker 3: just too young to be on these treatments and that

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Speaker 3: he was afraid of how it might affect my brain development.

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Speaker 3: But I didn't hear about this from any other doctor

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Speaker 3: or any other source that I had.

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Speaker 1: They call it gender affirming, obviously, you know, a term

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Speaker 1: to make it sound like this is a kind thing

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Speaker 1: to be doing for young peop Why do you think

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Speaker 1: they use that term specifically?

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Speaker 3: They say that it's affirming the gender identity of the patient.

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Speaker 3: But that's the problem. It's affirming nothing more than a delusion.

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Speaker 3: It's not reality. It's not affirming anything real. It's not

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Speaker 3: affirming your real gender. To be taking away parts of

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Speaker 3: your body and sterilizing yourself. It really a lot of

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Speaker 3: these phrases are just covering up and even sort of

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Speaker 3: infantilizing what these treatments and what this path really means

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Speaker 3: it makes it easier to sell.

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Speaker 1: How hard is it to transition? They put you on

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Speaker 1: puberty blockers for a number of years, you know, you

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Speaker 1: undergo the surgery. How hard is it to go back?

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Speaker 1: How hard is it to de transition?

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's difficult enough to go off of these

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Speaker 3: powerful drugs and deal with the hormonal imbalances that result

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Speaker 3: from it, as well as the surgeries and having had

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Speaker 3: your secondary sex characteristics mutated. But as of right now,

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Speaker 3: there's absolutely no standard of care for people like me

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Speaker 3: who regret their transition and want to go back. I

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Speaker 3: mean I had to figure out how to do it completely.

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Speaker 2: On my own.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't getting any guidance at all about things like

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Speaker 3: how I should stop taking testosterone, or what my options

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Speaker 3: might be for my reconstruction, or the complication that I'm

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Speaker 3: already having for my surgery, And I just haven't really

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Speaker 3: gotten any of the appropriate care that I've needed my

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Speaker 3: even psychologically. My gender specialist told me that in the

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Speaker 3: midst of me talking about the pain of my transition

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Speaker 3: to regret that it was just another part of my

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Speaker 3: gender journey, right, and my undercinologists when I told her

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Speaker 3: that I was going off of hormones. I requested that

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Speaker 3: I get regular blood tests to try and figure out

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Speaker 3: where I would be at in terms of like my

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Speaker 3: body producing its own natural hormones and how my homone

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Speaker 3: levels are in comparison to where they should be at.

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Speaker 3: When I got the result back, every time, I was

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Speaker 3: given the guidelines for a teenage boy. So absolutely all around,

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Speaker 3: I just didn't get any of the help that I needed.

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Speaker 3: There's no codes for patients like me. They have absolutely

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Speaker 3: no standards of care in place for dtrunsitioners at all.

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Speaker 1: So they lead you down this path and then they

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Speaker 1: abandon you when you decide to no longer go on.

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Speaker 3: It just about yeah, I mean, there is no discussion

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Speaker 3: of what it might look like if I were to

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Speaker 3: regret this and to decide to stop taking these treatments.

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Speaker 3: I didn't even know what the word dtrenition was until

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Speaker 3: after I stopped transitioning. I had never heard it before.

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Speaker 1: Quick commercial break more in d transitioning. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: so much money in this. I saw one report saying

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Speaker 1: that the industry surrounding transgender surgery is expected to reach

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Speaker 1: five billion by the end of the decade. How much

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Speaker 1: of this push do you believe is financially motivated.

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Speaker 3: Almost completely, actually, I mean it's financially motivated as well

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Speaker 3: as ideolog ideologically motivated. I think that's another reason of

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Speaker 3: why people are pushing this on children younger and younger.

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Speaker 3: It basically guarantees them to life of being a patient

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Speaker 3: and a slave to the pharmaceutical industry by interfering with

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Speaker 3: their puberty. The younger you do it, and once their

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Speaker 3: sex hormones are either compromised or removed, they're not able

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Speaker 3: to produce their own sex hormones anymore naturally, and so

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Speaker 3: they have to be reliant on exogenists hormones of either

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Speaker 3: sex to live. Basically, otherwise they'll be in an artificially

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Speaker 3: induced state of menopause for the rest of your life.

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Speaker 3: At a very young age, there's pretty much a guarantee

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Speaker 3: at least one of the treatments that you'll be on

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Speaker 3: that you'll have some sort of complication from them, and

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Speaker 3: it will either require surgical or pharmaceutical intervention. These complications

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Speaker 3: and these medications just keep piling up, and you become

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Speaker 3: very profitable.

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Speaker 1: What would you tell young people who are feeling lost

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Speaker 1: right now and potentially considering going down the road that

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Speaker 1: you went down.

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Speaker 3: I think you get the nail on the head that

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Speaker 3: feeling lost like this is just another part of growing up.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think you're really supposed to feel like

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Speaker 3: you've found your path, and so maybe after your twenties,

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Speaker 3: and for some people it takes even longer than that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of people who are in

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Speaker 3: their forties and fifties and they still don't know whether

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Speaker 3: they want to be on that same career path their

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Speaker 3: whole life, or whether they want to have children. Being

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Speaker 3: young is just exploring yourself, is just part of it.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's ridiculous to expect a child, or

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Speaker 3: even most people under the age of twenty five, to

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Speaker 3: be able to make a decision that will affect pretty

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Speaker 3: much every single part of their life, from the way

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Speaker 3: that they experience their sexuality down to basic bodily functions

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Speaker 3: like orgasm, the people that you're attracted to, your romantic

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Speaker 3: your platonic and familiar relationships, your fertility, the overall picture

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Speaker 3: of your health, and the way that you socialize. It

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Speaker 3: is a lot for somebody to take on, especially while

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Speaker 3: they're so young and while they're still discovering themselves. It's

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Speaker 3: not fair to expect them to push them into making

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Speaker 3: a decision that will affect them for the rest of

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Speaker 3: their life in every single way possible. And it takes

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Speaker 3: a lot of years, a lot of experience in the

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Speaker 3: world to know whether this is something that you might want.

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Speaker 3: And oftentimes a desire to go down this route stems

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Speaker 3: from previous traumas or comorbid issues. I mean, a lot

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Speaker 3: of these patients have some sort of learning disability, many

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Speaker 3: of them are autistic. Many of them have either experienced

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Speaker 3: sexual abuse or trauma, or they've been abused verbally or physically,

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Speaker 3: or neglected by a family member, especially in early childhood.

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Speaker 1: It makes me so sad to hear. What would you

404
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 1: tell parents who are also facing this, who might be

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00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 1: being emotionally blackmailed right now by professionals, being told that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the choice is either this or their child

407
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 1: is going to commit suicide. You know, what would you

408
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Speaker 1: say to parents who are being burdened by that kind

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Speaker 1: of emotional black man Not.

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Speaker 3: Easy hearing those things, especially from a medical professional who

411
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Speaker 3: you think you're supposed to trust. But in this situation,

412
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 3: you just might have to go against the advice that

413
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 3: they're giving you and remain logical because the arguments that

414
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 3: they're using are very much emotional blackmail. If your child

415
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Speaker 3: is feeling suicidal, it's not because of their sex. There

416
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 3: is some sort of underlying issue that is not being

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Speaker 3: addressed that they need help with. This is a cry

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Speaker 3: of help. It's a cry for help from your child.

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Speaker 3: They need to know that they're loved, that they're perfect

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Speaker 3: as they are, and the issue is not their body,

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00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 3: but the way that they perceive it. A problem I

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Speaker 3: notice with a lot of these kids is that they're

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Speaker 3: very withdrawn from other children and they need socialization, but

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Speaker 3: they don't. They're afraid of it. They feel as though

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Speaker 3: they can't fit in with their peers. They won't be

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00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 3: able to find the sense of community of belonging that

427
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 3: they want. It's very important to assess that where they're

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00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 3: learning or what's influencing them to want to become the

429
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 3: opposite sex, and what makes them think that is possible,

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Speaker 3: whether it's from school, their classes, what they're learning, or

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00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 3: from their peers, or from social media. To address the

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00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 3: problem directly and also making sure that you're fostering other

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Speaker 3: parts of their life, the growth of say they're building

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Speaker 3: their hobbies, I think that sports are really important for

435
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 3: the sort of thing, especially as you're growing up, because

436
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 3: you're working on something as part of a team towards

437
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 3: a goal, and you learn things like leadership in sportsmanship,

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Speaker 3: and you're also you're working on your body in a

439
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 3: way that isn't really focused on the form and how

440
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 3: it looks as much as the function of it. And

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00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 3: I think that's really important, especially for kids who either

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00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,640
Speaker 3: have bodied image disorders or at an age where they're

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00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 3: prone developing them, because they learn to appreciate what they

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00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 3: have for what it.

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00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 2: Can do and not for its appearance.

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00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: Chloe, what's ahead in your future? What are you hopeful about?

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00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 3: Well, my goal in my activism is to stop childhood

448
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 3: transition from being performed ever again. To address the affirmative

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00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,719
Speaker 3: care model and to fix it and make it so

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00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 3: that it's not so much of a one size fits

451
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 3: all care model for all just FOK patients, to address

452
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 3: the underlying conditions that these patients have, to see them

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00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 3: towards a path that isn't as invasive, to where they

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00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 3: don't feel like they have to address a psychological issue

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00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 3: with a highly invasive set of procedures that will affect

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00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 3: them for life. I think once once the fight's over

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00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,959
Speaker 3: and my goals are fulfilled. I've become a very family

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00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 3: oriented person over the years, and I won't have children

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00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 3: on my own. But even after this issue is addressed,

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00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 3: there's still a lot of other issues that are affecting

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00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 3: families and especially children in the modern day.

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00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 2: I don't have children on my own yet, but.

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00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 3: I have nieces and nephews and younger cousins, and I

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00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 3: worry for them every day. I want them to grow

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00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 3: up in a world where I feel like they'll be

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00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 3: safe outside of activism. Like I said earlier, I've always

467
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 3: kind of been on the artistic side. I love doing illustration.

468
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 3: Growing up, I did a lot of character illustration and design,

469
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 3: and in recent years I've gotten into fashion design and

470
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: coordination of clothing and outfits, and it's really been a

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00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 3: big part of my detransition. But I think that I

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00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 3: want to make it into something bigger than that. I

473
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 3: think I want to again into fashion design as a

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00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 3: full time thing and eventually start my own brand one day.

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00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: I love that. Chloe Cole. I'm praying that you have

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00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: the most beautiful life ahead and you fulfill all your

477
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: passions and hopes, and I just respect you and just

478
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: appreciate your courage and speaking out and trying to protect

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00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: other kids so they don't have to go through what

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00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: they put you through. And I'm so sorry they did that,

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00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,479
Speaker 1: but I'm so proud of you for standing up and

482
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: speaking out.

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00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

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00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: That was Chloe Cole, just eighteen years old. I don't

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00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: know about you, but it really just gives a human

486
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: side to the suffering that so many people are going

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00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: through and figuring themselves out and how easily they are

488
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 1: being taken advantage of, particularly when we're looking at young

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00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: people on this issue. So broke my heart. Really respect

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00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: what she does and her voice and all of this.

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00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,959
Speaker 1: It's so important. I want to thank you guys at

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00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: home for listening. I want to thank John Cassio and

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00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: my producer for putting the show together every Monday and Thursday,

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00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: but you can listen throughout the week. Feel free to

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00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: leave us a review, give us a rating on Apple Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Until next time,