WEBVTT - Stephanie Ruhle & Dan Weiner 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.480 today's best minds, and RFK Junior says the US COVID 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:16.560 response was the worst in the world. Hm, we have 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:20.440 such a great show for you today. MSNBC's own Stephanie 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:24.000 Rule stops by to talk to us about the disappointing 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:28.040 job numbers and what they could mean to the Trump administration. 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.720 Then we'll talk to the Brennan Center's own Dan Weiner 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:36.199 about the congressional stock band that everybody wants but we 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.479 seem to not be able to get. But first the 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:41.960 stories everyone is talking. 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.680 About Somali As we know, the Trump got some bad 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.400 job numbers. But I need to teach you about numbers. 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.440 And I'm going to bring in a professor. His name 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:51.560 is Rep. Randy Fine. 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.040 Ah the best Randy Fine. 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:58.120 He's doed for being such an awful human. Even Marjorie 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.880 Taylor Greed lectures about death. What's listened to this fellow 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.240 tell us about what's going on in the world coming out. 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.280 The August jobs record and a little of our who 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:10.320 knows what time it is anymore, it's a million o'clock 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:12.959 on seeing at New Central. It will be coming out 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.360 shortly and we will bring it to everyone when it does. 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:17.040 Are you going to believe the numbers? 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:20.319 I'm going to I'm going to look at the numbers. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.680 Look, the people who put these numbers together are human, 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:24.840 and they're fallible, and they make mistakes. And if you 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:26.680 go back and you look how these numbers always e 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:28.480 was they make mistage? 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:29.160 It wasn't. 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:31.360 Yeah, it wasn't that they make mistakes. The reason that 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.520 the President kicked out the commissioner of their of labor 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.400 Stations was he said that they were they were faking it, 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:41.319 they were cooking the books, which there's no evidence of that. 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.119 So do you think when then, when the numbers, when 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.760 the numbers are always wrong in one direction, you have 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.320 reason to be suspect. And so here's my understand that 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:50.240 what I can tell you is. 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:54.840 When businesses respond and give the information and submit and 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.080 respond to the ask from the Labor Department, then they 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:02.040 can't adjust what they have. It's like I get more information, 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:04.720 we can adjust the numbers. That's been happening from the 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.440 beginning of time. Yes, there has been more variable that's 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:09.919 for a lot of reasons which they say fewer businesses 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.640 are actually responding to these surveys, but that doesn't mean 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:13.560 they're cooking the books. 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:17.680 Well, I think that when there's problems with methodology, sometimes 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.240 it's intentional, sometimes it's not. But when the numbers are 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.560 always do you think why the direction? There's a reason 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.760 to have I think the methodologies were problematic, And we 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.320 see this in all kinds of things, where numbers always 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:30.240 tend to benefit the left, and when the facts come 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:31.680 out they don't anymore. 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:35.720 And so I think the president, yes, the facts have 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:36.960 a liberal bias. 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.640 Where have I heard that before? There's a reason for that. 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:41.360 We have heard that before. 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:46.679 And Randy fine, and ladies and gentlemen, Randy fine. All 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:50.520 I'm going to say is that the unemployment rate for 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:56.080 the youngs is ten point five percent, which is not great. 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.760 Yeah, that is a really really bad sign for breaking 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:01.520 this social contract with our youth. 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.000 Turns out you guys shouldn't have voted for Trump. 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:04.560 Yeah. 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:06.720 And well, if he thought they responded badly when they 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.000 got taught by Andrew Tate, just imagine how badly they're 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:10.520 going to respond when they were told to get a 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:11.760 degree and it means nothing. 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.280 Oh, I'm not going to blame education for this. 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:15.680 I'm not blaming education. 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.240 I'm blaming the breaking of the social contract by the 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.080 corporations who aren't hiring them because they're now useless and 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.960 we told them to get that degree and now it's worthless. 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.400 It's not education's fault. It's a corporate America's. 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:31.040 Fault either way. Chicken egg whatever not good. But you 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:32.200 know what else is not good? 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:36.440 Jesse Kennon, Well, I have to say a staffer at 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:38.440 the DOJ saying that they're going to take out all 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.080 the Republican names of the Epstein files brought to us 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:44.880 by Conservative Little what do we even call him? 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:46.080 James O'Keefe. 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.560 Before we go to get to this story, I just 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.200 want to point out there have just been a couple 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:57.680 of times this week Thomas Massey mtg Ran Paul saying 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.720 we shouldn't bomb ships if we don't know who's in them. 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:05.840 Three different really truly horrendous humans, all of whom made 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.480 a lot of sense to me this week, a lot. 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.000 So I just want to say, before we get to 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:15.040 this story, this is a person, James O'Keefe. He got 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.760 fired from Project Veritas. He does now the James O'Keeffe 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.960 project or whatever. This is not someone you want to 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.840 be elevating and yet continue. 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:28.760 So he basically did a honeypot, which for those who 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.839 don't know that turbo, it's like he gave a attractive 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:35.160 girl camera and she flirted with a guy who tried 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.880 to impress her and said that they're gonna only leave 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.600 the liberals of the Epstein files they release, which yes, 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.480 pretty hilarious. Exactly what all of us could have predicted 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.599 what happened months and months ago. 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:54.840 Incredible. Basically, he says to her, we have a plan, 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.160 and the plan is pretty much what all of us thought. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.120 And by the way, this is not some yahoo what's 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:02.200 his title. 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:06.440 Acting Deputy Chief of the DOJ's Office of Enforcement Operations. 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.120 Yeah, so this guy is in a position to do 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:13.240 such a thing. And he says if they're released in 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.359 any way, it's going to be very redacted, which that 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:20.400 makes sense. They'll redact every Republican or conservative person in 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.400 the files. That doesn't make sense, leave all the liberal 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:29.359 democratic people in the files. Joseph Schnitt, acting director of 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:34.960 the DOJ's Office of Enforcement Organization, says in a video. 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.960 Yeah, so look forward to that. Sorry, Bill Clinton anyway, 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.400 So after Robert F. Kennedy's, I would put that the 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:46.040 top five most disastrous testimonies I've ever seen Molley where 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:46.520 you reckon. 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:48.640 I think he could do worse, by the way, the 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:54.559 times when Kennedy did the worst, or the times when 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:58.760 members of Congress were careful and drew them out, like, 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:05.480 for example, Republican Senator John Cassidy, who has clearly I mean, look, 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.640 he was the needed vote for Kennedy, but he is 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.920 a doctor. He's a gastroinrologist, so he knows that he 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.840 fucked up big time. He starts with this questioning and 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.839 he says, do you think that Donald Trump should win 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.560 a Nobel Prize for Operation Warp Speed? And let me 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:28.200 tell you all Donald Trump wants is his fucking prize. Right, 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:32.640 He's like the mango god dictator of our country. He 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.240 has more prouder than any president ever, and all the 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.040 man wants is a prize. This I could not relate 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.040 to more. I mean, I am not a dictator, but 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.960 I really want a prize. So here he says I 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.680 want this prize. Senator Bill Cassidy gets him going, says, 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:49.040 do you think he deserves a prize? 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:49.680 Ourf cases. 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:54.679 Absolutely, then Cassidy is like I thought vaccines were bad, 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:57.760 you know, and RF cake can't get out of it. 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.880 Those were the most effective question I thought the least 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.520 effective questioning, and it made the rounds on the internet. 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.760 But there was one a video of a Democratic senator 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.320 just being like, you're a Charlottean Like. I don't think 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:16.480 that's as effective as getting him to really talk himself 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.040 into a corner. I think it makes more sense to 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.840 do that than to just yell at him. Mark Warner 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.400 got really mad at him and started yelling at him too, 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:29.240 and Barrasso, who is number two Senate Whip said, and 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.520 he's an orthopedic surgeon. I mean, this is the thing, 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:33.920 like you have all these doctors who signed on to this. 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.960 They did this to themselves and to us. I don't 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.560 have a lot of knockus for this crew, but I 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:43.040 still think it was pretty interesting watching them just take 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:43.760 him apart. 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.160 Yeah, I agree to Maria Kentwell and Elizabeth Warren really 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:48.960 did a great job with Yeah. 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:51.640 See, I thought Warren did a better job than can't Well. 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:52.880 Can't Well was just like. 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:54.960 She got him on a few things that I thought 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:57.400 were good. But yes, I agree that Warren was better. 0:07:57.680 --> 0:07:59.800 Yeah, can't. Well, it's good, but like catch him in 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:01.880 the lies, don't tell him he sucks. 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:03.360 We know he sucks well. 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:08.960 Regardless, his red faced performance of breathing weird and talking 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:13.280 strangely has him on very thin ice, apparently with Republican centers. 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:17.000 According to sources at the Hill, they're telling mister Trump 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:18.800 that RFK juniors on thin ice. 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:20.000 Buddy, you better watch it. 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:20.520 Yeah. 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.040 I'm sure Donald Trump as he fires, I'm sure he's 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.680 listening real hard to the people who gave away all 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:27.400 their power. 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:28.160 Yeah. 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.520 Yeah, But at the same time, Trump does have that 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.520 preservationist instinct that if RFK does become a liability for him, 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:36.640 I don't think he's a long for this world. It's 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.600 just more right now he thinks he's a benefit. Come well, 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:41.920 as I said, Donald Trump thinks. I don't believe he. 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:42.840 Thinks that, right. 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:47.320 I mean, look, if he fires RFK, which he absolutely should, 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.959 and by the way, Bernie was out there last week 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.000 with it obed in the Times saying that he should 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.400 be forced to resign, which I was so impressed that 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.960 he did that, and that was what democratic leadership should 0:08:58.000 --> 0:08:58.680 be all over. 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.920 We should have his doing that, we should have Schumer 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:02.240 doing that. 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:02.720 Yeah. 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.280 Also to that point, he was everywhere doing that. He 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.480 made every type of video. The YouTube did really well. 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.040 He knew how to play that media ecosystem, unlike the 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:13.160 leadership right now. 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.840 Yeah, I don't understand what's happening with the leadership. But yeah, 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:20.160 so till us everybody in the world. Everybody in the 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.080 world freaking out about this. 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.080 But I don't know. We'll see what happens. 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.360 Look, if Trump fires Kennedy, which he absolutely, one hundred percent, 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.560 unequivocally should, he's going to have those angry Maha women 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.160 making videos about him. 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:35.199 We'll see. 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:39.160 So, Malli, it's not looking good for that discharge petition 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:40.920 over the Epstein files. 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:41.800 What do you see in here? 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.600 So basically there are two more positions that are going 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.280 to be filled. The last time I talked to them, 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:50.400 they still thought they had the votes. I don't know 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:51.520 I can ask them again. 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.360 Well, as of this taping, it's not looking so hot. 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.320 I mean, the only one I see changing tactics there 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.840 is Paulina Luna, but it's certainly possible that it won't 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.920 get through. I mean, the good news is that the 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:06.800 women can put together their own list. I mean they 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.160 can and Marjorie Taylor Green can go to converse and 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.440 read it. I mean, there's a lot of corruption happening here, 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.640 and the fact that Trump doesn't want the Epstein stuff 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:18.200 released seems in. 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.640 My mind kind of like a big towel. 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.760 Steph Rule is the host of MSNBC's The Eleventh Hour. 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:34.760 Watch Steph Rule at the upcoming MSNBC Live twenty five 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.199 This Is Who We Are event on October eleventh in 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.720 New York City. Stephanie Rall, Welcome to Path Politics. 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:47.240 I'm excited to be here. Majong. You are on my 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:49.960 mind all summer as I learned majong this summer, and 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.200 I'm like, just like Mollie, feel like like she wants 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.360 to do like a Mazong thing that their name. 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.680 Yeah, listen, I would a like to learn how to 0:10:58.679 --> 0:10:59.440 play majong. 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:04.320 And yes, so okay, I'm gonna tell you. This was 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.400 the summer I turned old, I learned majong, I learned canasta, 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:10.800 and I took my son to college. So like, I 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.880 am like officially a golden girl and I'm here for it. 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:16.840 I'm just saying that, all right. 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:21.520 So besides those many skills. You have other skills, and 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.760 I'm not very good at any of those yet just 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:24.520 so good. 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:26.800 And when you meet a woman who's really good at 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.480 majong revere her because she's the smarty pants, I'm not 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.480 one of them. Well, I go back to business excited 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:33.960 to learn. 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:39.679 So today Ken Donald Trump fire the head of Bureau 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:41.040 and Labor Statistics. 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:41.400 Again. 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.120 No, what Donald Trump and how our Leutnik are doing 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.880 now are basically saying, don't pay attention to these numbers. 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.480 Six months from now, a year from now, as Donald 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.520 Trump said, when the genius palaces are built, And like, 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.000 I don't know what a genius palace is, but I'm 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.800 definitely putting that sign above my bedroom door. From now on, 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.960 you are now entering the genius palace. No, now, they're 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.920 just moving the goalpost. Because remember Donald Trump was going 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.360 to lower grocery prices day one. Everything was going to 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.840 be booming. It was going to be an m and 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.240 a bonanza. You were just going to see business and 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:25.280 building investments coming, YadA, YadA, YadA. None of that's happened yet. 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:27.760 One of the main reasons that hasn't happened is because 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.839 Donald Trump has led his tower for Donald Trump is 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.640 now involving himself in all sorts of private industries. And 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.880 what happens that freezes up business because nobody knows what's 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.000 coming next. Because as opposed to what Republicans swear that 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.800 they are free market capitalists, you now have a president 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.680 who's directly getting involved in all sorts of businesses here 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.200 and abroad. So businesses don't know what to do or 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.040 how to spend their money, and they're not investing. Okay, 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.040 So here we are, nine months in, we're getting a 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.840 jobs report that's not strong. We're revisions to previous months. 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:05.760 They're lower and lower and lower, and core inflation is 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.600 above three percent. So Donald Trump is going to get 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.200 what he wants. Investors are going to get what they want, 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.040 and they're going to get a rate cut. But they're 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.480 not getting a ray cut because insallation's down. We're getting 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.840 a rate cut because we have many, many signs that 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.320 the economy is slowing. So here you have in America. 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.920 Employers are not hiring, employers are not raising wages, and 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:31.120 things are costing a lot of money below stagflation. This 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:31.880 is America. 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.760 So let's i So let's talk about that. The reason 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.880 that they didn't want to cut the rates until now 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:44.319 was because of the worry of inflation. Is that no 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.240 longer a worry It sounds like it's not, or is 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.120 it just so such a dire explain why they're doing it? 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.560 Still a worry. But the Fed has a dual mandate 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.360 to make sure the economy is growing and to keep 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.200 inflation in check. It's not one or the other. And 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:05.520 this is the thing about investors and Donald Trump. Investors 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:09.800 want a rate cut, and they also want a stable economy, right, 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:12.679 And I shouldn't say that they want a growing economy. 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.400 They want a strong economy. And it's not that we 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:15.240 have a bad economy. 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:15.560 We don't. 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.840 We have a good economy, but things are weakening because 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.000 of Donald Trump's trade war, and you still have this 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.360 pesky inflation situation. So we're going to get the rate cut, 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.120 but not necessarily in the way that Donald Trump wants. 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:33.280 And you know, just yesterday when Bill Poulti who runs 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.880 the housing agency that tipped off Donald Trump claiming that 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.360 Lisa Cooke, the FED governor, committed fraud. He's now sort 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.840 of planting the seeds that will listen. Jay Powell hasn't 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.800 fired Lisa Cook yet and that could end up being 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.760 caused for him to get fired. It's like Donald Trump 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:53.280 just did set at this point that he desperately wants 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.920 to fire j Powell. And it's not for malpractice. It's 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.440 about control. Since Donald Trump took off as this second term, 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:05.240 it's how can I bend every cabinet member, every industry, 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.800 every leader to the whims of what I want, every 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:09.560 country to the whims of what I want? And Jay 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.720 Powell hasn't done it, and he is dead set on 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.760 firing him. It makes no sense because Jay Powell's term 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:19.320 is done in nine months. He's going regardless. But it's 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.840 like Donald Trump needs to win this one, and Scott 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.720 Besant has warned the President, do not do this. It 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:26.880 is not a good idea to fire on him because 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:31.160 you know, one of the core tenants of American exceptionalism 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:36.480 is our central bank being independent. Because Molly, every single 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:40.120 politician who lives on short termism, which they all do 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.440 because they all need to get elected every four years, 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:44.400 would say, let's cut rates down to zero. 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:49.440 Because rates are zero, we're gonna buy houses, We're gonna borrow, borrow, barrow, 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:53.480 and spend, spend, spend, But politicians who just worry about 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.840 the short term don't have to think about the big picture, 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:58.080 long term impacts. 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:00.320 That's what the FED has to do, and that's where 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:03.280 the fed's independence is crucial. And this is the first 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.840 time in our lifetimes we are now hearing FED governors 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.840 talked about like this one's on my team, this one's 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.320 on your team. That's not how the FED operates. It 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.920 was never like the Supreme Court, right, and the Supreme 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:18.560 Court was never supposed to be like this. 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:23.440 Very correct, But explain to us if you lower interest rates, 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:25.160 what is the danger. 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.280 The things are gonna heat up too quickly right that 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.960 everyone is gonna start spending and everyone's gonna start borrowing, like, 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.200 oh my gosh, my credit card rates nothing, I'm gonna 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.480 I'm gonna spend, I'm gonna spend. I'm gonna spend when 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.720 the under when we're not when the underlying economy isn't 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:41.960 strong enough, And the risk in doing that is bad 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.240 for us across the board. And it's not how the 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.560 markets view things, because if you were in a business, 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:49.400 you want to borrow as cheaply as you can all 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:49.840 the time. 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.680 The tariffs are inflationary because things are more expensive, and 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:54.240 they were. 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:55.280 Like much much. 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.160 I mean, our tariff rate is really really high. I 0:16:58.160 --> 0:16:59.840 mean it's the highest of any in the. 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:04.800 De for no reason. Because let's remember, tariffs aren't a 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.679 good or a bad thing. Tariffs are a tool. And 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:11.359 it is totally fair and accurate to say that China 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:16.240 has unfair trading practices, which is why the idea to 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.800 put together a coalition of the United States and ally 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.840 nations to work together to figure out a way to 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:26.760 prevent or stop China from doing this, which is why 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.359 they put together the Trans Specific Partnership towards the end 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.119 of the Obama administration and Trump said, no way, HOSEI, 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.800 We're not doing this. But instead of us working with 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.760 other countries, Donald Trump went into office and one of 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:41.119 the main reasons he likes tariffs is it's very powerful 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.920 for him. Right, this is what gives him the chance 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.479 to be a kingmaker where other countries come to him 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.560 and say please or don't do this, like trade is 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.960 so important to us. It's where CEO after CEO is 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:54.719 going to the White House hat in hand looking for 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:55.400 an exemption. 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:56.160 Right. 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.920 I am sure you watched last night those tech leaders 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.000 show up for that dinner at the White House, none 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.080 of whom are being intellectually honest with the President, because 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.640 I'm sure in their mind they can't be right if 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:10.960 you're Tim Cook, and you could say, how could Tim 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.160 Cook of Apple go to the White House give Donald 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.560 Trump the gold phone tap dance form? Because he has 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.280 a business to run, and in putting on his dog 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.960 and pony show for the President, he avoided rippling tariffs 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.800 on his company, and so one would say Tim Cook 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.480 did the right thing for his company. But the question 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.720 is are these business leaders doing the right thing for 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.840 their companies and their country because they should be thought 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.480 of as these leaders in society and culture. They're saying, 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.440 hold on, is this going to help our economy as 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.080 a whole? And they're watching the President and what he's 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.400 doing with the FED, and they know that it's dangerous, 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.360 and they're not saying anything because they're playing a game 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.440 of survival. And I get it. They know the President 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.560 will target you if you speak out against him in 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:55.040 any way. 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:59.400 It seems like we have a permission structure or we're 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:03.399 going down road where nobody says the truth. So you 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.920 don't have business leaders saying the truth, You don't have 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.120 members of the FED saying the truth because the don't 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:08.760 want to get fired. 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.880 You don't have you just sort of So where's things 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:17.080 like the Business Roundtable? Like the Business round Table's purpose, right, 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.480 is to bring business leaders together, is to work with government, 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.119 is to work with the administration and say this is 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.119 what is happening in the business universe, this is what 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:26.679 would help us, this is what would hurt us. This 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:28.680 is a real economy, this is the real labor market. 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.560 And they're not saying anything. And it's not that different 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.080 from if you think about when the president first went 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:40.400 after law firms. It was not after you know, DEI practices. 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.320 He was going after law firms that worked with people 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.919 that he perceived to be his enemies. Yeah, just like 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:50.520 going after university. Not about fighting anti Semitism, right, it's 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:52.960 about doing what Donald Trump wants and Donald Trump being 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.200 in charge. I get that's what he wants. But by 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.880 not just standing up, not not really fighting but standing 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.960 up for what's right, everyone's hurting themselves. Right If all 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.880 those law firms would have said, you can't take Paul 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:07.840 Weiss down, We're going to stand lock arms and stand together. 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:10.480 But instead, as soon as he went after Paul Weiss, 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.440 all of Paul Weiss's competitors said great and called Paul 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.520 Weiss's clients and said, hello, we'd like to be your 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:18.679 We'd like to be your new law firm. In the 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.400 same way Molly that that early in the Trump administration, 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.080 when what was it he wanted to kick the AP 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.040 out because they were unwilling to call it the Gulf 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.520 of America. What could have happened. All the other news 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.240 outlets could such a good point, all the other news 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.879 outlets could have said, and you're going to do this 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.119 to the AP, We're not going to show up for 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.679 the next week. And this isn't my idea. A senior 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.440 administration official from Trump's first term called me that week 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.240 and said to me, can I tell you Donald Trump's 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:51.360 favorite hour of the day. It's the hour that he's 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.840 speaking to the press. And there was one week the 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.640 press said we're not going to show up. He wouldn't 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.720 like it. And I get the fear that if your 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.280 seat is empty, then the White House is going to 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:06.239 fill it with someone else. The White House is going 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.399 to put another right wing influence in there. And they 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:11.840 might they're doing that, but Donald Trump doesn't just want 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.520 the influencer who's going to say, mister President, when did 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:17.560 you get great at being great? You look more handsome 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:20.480 today than you did yesterday. The president wants the back 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:24.080 and forth. The president wants the friction because the friction 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:27.280 is what gets the headlines, not the person saying when 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:30.119 did you get great at being great? But in the 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:34.400 world of survival and short termism that we all collectively 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:36.800 live in, it's hard and it's scary. 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:38.600 No, I think that's absolutely right. 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:43.000 And the reality is the White House Press Association had 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.240 a moment there where they could have done what they 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:48.600 exist for and that didn't happen. 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:51.919 And I don't listen. I don't begrudge them. This is 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:55.320 really hard. It's hard for people to cover this White House. 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.440 It's hard for people to work with this White House. 0:21:57.520 --> 0:21:57.680 Right. 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:01.720 Yeah, And while the President does consider himself to be 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:05.600 pro business and pro growth, it's his way or the highway, 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:08.800 and that's not something we've experienced in a modern America. 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:14.240 So the markets seem to be not I mean, I 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:16.360 don't know what they're doing today, but I would love 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:19.439 you to explain sort of what you think the market, 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.040 the stock market, the bond market, if you're. 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:25.199 Seeing any kind of check. I think, first of all, 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.639 when people keep seeing the market booming, saying, oh, the 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:31.840 market likes I mean first, Trump said this week if 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:34.159 we got out, if we got rid of the tariffs, 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:36.679 markets would fall apart. We'd be a third world country. 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:37.920 That's one. 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:44.120 Not the case. Not the case, it's twofold. It's when 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:47.399 we talk about the markets, we're not talking about all 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:49.400 the Fortune five hundred companies out there. We're not talking 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.160 about all the public traded companies. At this point, you 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:57.879 have seven giant mega companies that are really not affected 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.280 by tariffs, they're not affected by immigration, that are so 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:06.399 big and so valuable tech giants, and they're overweighted so 0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:08.959 much in the markets that that's what people look at 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:12.720 right Like the power and the weight of Nvidia gets 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:15.320 all of our attention, and we're ignoring the fact that 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:17.959 John Deere is laying off people. Nike is telling us 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:20.800 what the tariffs are going to cause us. Walmart is 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:23.600 warning what's happening to consumers or what's happening to prices. 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.080 So you have to think about the fact that we're 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:30.960 in this AI boom, that investors are flooding cash into 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:34.680 any company that has any association or connection to AI, 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:37.399 which is why there are folks out there that worry 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:40.520 that we could be approaching an AI bubble like we 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:42.760 did a dot com bubble. I'm not saying that we are, 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:45.919 but that theory is definitely out there. So you have 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:48.360 that when it comes to the markets and the other 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:52.560 side of the markets, they don't actually believe that Donald 0:23:52.600 --> 0:23:56.240 Trump will follow through with doing anything truly draconian. 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:56.800 Right. 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:00.520 The tariffs that we actually have, though they're crippling, their painful, 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:03.680 they're not the fifty to sixty percent tariff that Donald 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:07.120 Trump was threatening on that first Liberation Day, and it 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:09.640 was I can't remember who came up with the term 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:12.119 taco Trump always checking it out with theft with the 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:16.880 barons someone. Investors across the board really believe that they 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:21.600 believe that Donald Trump's The only evidence we've seen of 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:25.920 a guardrail on him in his second term has been 0:24:26.680 --> 0:24:29.760 market dropping. Has been the bond market knocking on his 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:34.200 door and Scott Bessett running in and saying, mister President, 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:37.600 I need to explain to you. When people lose faith 0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:41.000 in the US dollar and they lose faith in the 0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:44.200 fact that this isn't the safest, best place to invest, 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:47.760 and that cracks. That's deficit. That's when Donald Trump backs 0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:50.280 off and says, oh, we're not gonna go with the tariffs, 0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:53.000 so we're gonna So there's a belief that he talks 0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:56.080 a big game and it's a huge headache, but at 0:24:56.119 --> 0:24:57.760 the end he's not going to go through it. Which 0:24:57.800 --> 0:25:01.600 is why if I talked to ce who run actual 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:04.399 companies with thousands and thousands of employees who have to 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:09.200 make things, navigating Donald Trump is significantly harder. Because business 0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:12.439 planning is very hard under Donald Trump. But if I 0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:16.119 talk to investors who can buy or sell an entire 0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:19.520 portfolio within the span of ten minutes they had to 0:25:19.520 --> 0:25:22.360 play with Donald Trump, they'd understand the volatility of the understanding, 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:24.000 and they can make an entire They can make a 0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:26.679 huge amount of money. But if you are running a 0:25:26.800 --> 0:25:33.920 company where you're planning, hiring, firing, building factories, expanding, investing 0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:36.840 in other countries, it's damn near impossible to do that 0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:40.080 under Donald Trump, especially as it relates to the tariffs, 0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:42.600 because they're on today, they're off tomorrow, and three years 0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:45.240 from now, when he's not president anymore, they're most likely 0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:48.399 not on so were you really going to invest billions 0:25:48.400 --> 0:25:50.880 of dollars in a long term project that might make 0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:53.439 no sense just a few years from now exactly. 0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:57.520 And also the bond market, I'd love you to just 0:25:57.560 --> 0:26:02.920 talk about, like there still is some of dollar abandonment, right, 0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:06.720 there's not your So that may not be showing up 0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:09.080 in the markets yet in the data. 0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:11.679 Could and things could turn, but but it could and 0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:13.359 it could turn on a diame in a second. And 0:26:13.359 --> 0:26:15.600 we'll just try to make it as basic as possible. 0:26:15.720 --> 0:26:18.080 Right when we talk about the bottom market, we're talking 0:26:18.080 --> 0:26:21.760 about US treasuries and investors from around the world. That's 0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:25.000 where they park their money. Right, even when there's a 0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:28.680 stock market disaster here, even when there's a subprime crisis here, 0:26:29.000 --> 0:26:33.919 that US dollar remains the reserve currency in part because 0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:37.199 we have an independent federal reserve, Right, don't believe me. 0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:40.639 Look at countries like Turkey, look at Greece, Look at Argentina, 0:26:40.880 --> 0:26:43.840 where you didn't have independent central banks, or where you 0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:48.480 couldn't trust the government data, the economic data, because politicians 0:26:48.480 --> 0:26:52.400 were getting involved and they face dire consequences. But because 0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:55.480 for over one hundred years, we've had an independent federal 0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:59.640 reserve people say this is this, you know, the cleanest 0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:02.720 dirty shirt, you know, the safest place to put your money. 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:06.320 But if suddenly those things are in question, it'll make 0:27:06.359 --> 0:27:09.520 it more difficult and less attractive to invest your dollars 0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:10.640 here in the United States. 0:27:10.880 --> 0:27:13.439 And that will mean it will be more expensive to 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:17.080 service our debt one hundred percent, right. 0:27:17.359 --> 0:27:19.640 And and that's the thing that we have to remember 0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:20.879 about debt and deficits. 0:27:20.920 --> 0:27:21.120 Here. 0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:24.960 We don't even pay down the debt, right. All we 0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:29.320 do is service the interest. So compare that. Imagine if 0:27:29.359 --> 0:27:33.960 you had huge, gigantic, crippling credit card debt, and every 0:27:34.000 --> 0:27:36.560 month when you were paying your bill, you were never 0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:41.160 even considering chipping away at the principle. All you are 0:27:41.240 --> 0:27:44.520 ever doing is servicing the interest, which is what we 0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:47.280 do as the United States government. And what blows my 0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:51.760 mind is that maybe six months before Donald Trump won 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:55.800 this election, I watched Scott Bessant, who was you know, 0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:58.159 sort of in the in the like. Maybe he was 0:27:58.200 --> 0:28:00.919 an unofficial, maybe an official advice to the Trump campaign, 0:28:00.920 --> 0:28:02.760 I don't remember, but he was closely tied to the 0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:05.919 Trump campaign. I watched him speak at a conference and 0:28:06.000 --> 0:28:10.679 he was visibly angry and shaken at Joe Biden and 0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:13.760 the amount of government spending that went on during the 0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:17.919 Biden administration. And he basically said, I want to be 0:28:18.040 --> 0:28:21.480 part of this next administration. And he wasn't being boastful, 0:28:21.640 --> 0:28:24.560 but you know, because he wanted to save America, felt 0:28:24.600 --> 0:28:27.640 like he felt like the fiscal clip was coming, spending 0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:30.240 was out of control, and doom was on the horizon. 0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:33.480 Well I barely hear him ever speaking about this. Why 0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:37.080 because debt and deficits are ballooning under Donald Trump. 0:28:37.440 --> 0:28:39.080 What is the big beautiful. 0:28:38.640 --> 0:28:44.080 Bill if not super costly to this country. So this 0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:46.760 idea that like Doge, was going to come in and 0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:49.600 cut billions and billions of dollars of government spending to 0:28:49.600 --> 0:28:52.360 get us set right, Well, that didn't happen. And then 0:28:52.400 --> 0:28:53.960 we were going to pass a budget it was going 0:28:54.040 --> 0:28:56.840 to be far more fiscally responsible than anything Joe Biden 0:28:56.840 --> 0:29:00.720 never did. Well, that didn't happen. So now we have 0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:04.640 huge debt and deficit and we're potentially putting ourselves in 0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:08.080 a position we're servicing that debt is only going to 0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:11.280 get more expensive. No bueno. Across the board, we. 0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:14.120 Touched on Lisa Cook for a minute and how she 0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:19.560 might be the way that Trump world could try to 0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:20.800 fire J Powell. 0:29:20.920 --> 0:29:22.920 J Powell, but I want. 0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:25.960 You to just she's pushing back. This will go to litigation. 0:29:26.480 --> 0:29:30.720 What's your sort of vibe on this, Listen, none of 0:29:30.800 --> 0:29:32.320 us know any. 0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:34.800 Of the details yet of what Lisa Cook may or 0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:36.640 may not have done. Right, they're saying that she committed 0:29:36.680 --> 0:29:39.160 mortgage broad and saying that she had more than one 0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:41.440 property that she said was her primary right. 0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:45.120 There are members of Trump world who have also, there are. 0:29:44.960 --> 0:29:47.520 But we shouldn't. There's a caveat there because Pro Pabloca 0:29:47.560 --> 0:29:49.800 just reported last night that there's three members of the 0:29:49.840 --> 0:29:52.720 Trump administration who did the same thing. It's not the 0:29:52.760 --> 0:29:56.000 same thing in their case because just think about this 0:29:56.040 --> 0:29:58.480 for a moment. It's tricky. If you are, let's say, 0:29:59.000 --> 0:30:02.840 a new cabinet member, you might actually have a primary 0:30:02.920 --> 0:30:06.239 home in DC because that's where you're working, and in 0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:08.680 your home district because that's where you're from. So it 0:30:08.760 --> 0:30:12.440 is somewhat complicated. So these three examples that Republica has 0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:14.440 given is different. It's complicated. 0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:14.720 Now. 0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:19.200 They claim that Ken Paxton, the Deputy Attorney General Attorney 0:30:19.280 --> 0:30:22.720 General Tax General sexes. They believe he did the same 0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:25.400 thing as Lisa Cook. If Lisa Cook even did it, 0:30:25.560 --> 0:30:29.680 we do run. But this again is about power and control. 0:30:29.720 --> 0:30:32.160 Donald Trump would like to remove Lisa Cook and put 0:30:32.520 --> 0:30:36.000 a friendly fed governor in there. And if j. Powell 0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:39.600 does not go through with firing her, then they will 0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:42.480 say we can fire J. Powell for cause for not 0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:45.960 doing his job. Where to me, this makes absolutely no sense. 0:30:46.040 --> 0:30:48.480 Ja Powell is out of this job. Nine months from now, 0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:52.000 Donald Trump will be done with him. It will royal 0:30:52.280 --> 0:30:55.920 and rattle markets to do this. So what's the point. 0:30:56.120 --> 0:30:58.360 There isn't one. This is to me about control. 0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:02.680 Staff Roul. Fun to have you on my podcast. 0:31:02.760 --> 0:31:05.040 Goodbye friend, Thank bye Sison. 0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:10.840 Dan Weiner serves as director of the Brennan Center's Election 0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:12.320 and Government program. 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:16.320 Welcome to Fast Politics, Dan, thanks so much for having me. 0:31:16.640 --> 0:31:18.880 There's so much apping in Congress, but I want you 0:31:18.960 --> 0:31:22.320 to talk to us about this idea that is a 0:31:22.360 --> 0:31:23.760 passion project of mine. 0:31:23.960 --> 0:31:26.360 So there is a ton going on in Congress. You're right, 0:31:26.440 --> 0:31:30.680 but there is this sort of growing and actually, genuinely 0:31:30.720 --> 0:31:36.400 I think bipartisan momentum to restrict members of Congress from 0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:40.080 trading stocks. I want to pause for one second. 0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:43.320 And interrupt you as I will, in a very annoying way. 0:31:43.480 --> 0:31:46.280 It is so shocking that in a moment, which is 0:31:46.360 --> 0:31:49.360 probably if we do end up having history, which we 0:31:49.440 --> 0:31:51.840 may not, who knows, but like is one of the 0:31:51.840 --> 0:31:54.880 moments in my lifetime that the American government has been 0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:59.080 corrupt in a way that is flagrant and terrifying and 0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:00.880 yet continue. 0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:04.760 Well, here's the thing. Is that fascinating backdrop. It's a 0:32:04.800 --> 0:32:08.320 fascinating backdrop. And what I think we have to understand 0:32:08.400 --> 0:32:11.640 here is that not everything comes down. I'm going to 0:32:11.680 --> 0:32:14.960 say it to Donald Trump, right, it's a tendency that 0:32:14.960 --> 0:32:16.800 we all have to be like Trump Trump Trump. And 0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:19.680 it's true. A lot of the most flagrant corruption we 0:32:19.680 --> 0:32:21.120 can talk about that if you want, is coming from 0:32:21.200 --> 0:32:24.640 the executive branch. There is also this little body called Congress. 0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:27.760 You may have heard of them. They're not always doing much, 0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:31.800 but more often or often they are supposed to be 0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:33.120 the first branch of government. 0:32:33.320 --> 0:32:33.520 Right. 0:32:33.600 --> 0:32:36.360 They're the people the founders thought would be running the show. 0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:39.280 Most of the time. They have their own corruption issues. 0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:42.200 And one of the things we've seen actually is that 0:32:42.280 --> 0:32:46.120 if Congress is going to be that first branch of government, 0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:49.200 is actually going to be the body that also polices 0:32:49.240 --> 0:32:51.240 the other branches. It's got to get its own house 0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:54.239 in order. And the issue that you know is on 0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:57.880 the table today, right is stock trading, which, on the 0:32:57.920 --> 0:33:00.920 one hand, is kind of not the that's front and 0:33:00.960 --> 0:33:05.320 center in everyone's mind, but it's outrageous, right, outrageous. They 0:33:05.320 --> 0:33:08.479 have access to non public information all the time. They 0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:12.400 are supposedly, you know, running our economy, but they also 0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:15.920 trade stocks. Many many members trade stocks. There's a lot 0:33:16.000 --> 0:33:17.720 going on there, and we can talk about it, including 0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:20.760 the fact, frankly they're not paid enough. So there's actually 0:33:20.800 --> 0:33:23.400 a dimension of this that I'm sort of sympathetic to them. 0:33:23.680 --> 0:33:26.280 But if you want the American people to have trust 0:33:26.320 --> 0:33:29.080 in their government, you need to start with some basic 0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:32.160 idea of public services, of public's trust, and stock trading 0:33:32.240 --> 0:33:33.640 kind of flies in the face of that. 0:33:34.040 --> 0:33:38.000 I would also add that you don't get to Donald 0:33:38.040 --> 0:33:44.320 Trump without many steps along the way that weaken your 0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:45.760 resolve against corruption. 0:33:46.360 --> 0:33:52.240 So true, Look, we have a situation where Donald Trump's predecessor, 0:33:52.640 --> 0:33:55.440 it is not at the same scale, also tolerated some 0:33:55.440 --> 0:33:58.800 pretty outrageous behavior on the part of his own kid, right, 0:33:59.160 --> 0:34:02.320 and particularly actually what we was vice president, So you 0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:04.360 do have this process. 0:34:03.920 --> 0:34:05.240 Where influence trading. 0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:08.160 Influence trading, you had the Clinton years, I hate to 0:34:08.200 --> 0:34:10.160 say it right where there was some So there's a 0:34:10.239 --> 0:34:11.719 process by which. 0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:14.160 I'm going to just interrupt you from yet again, I 0:34:14.440 --> 0:34:19.200 really believe that there is a straight line from There 0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:21.680 was a moment after Nixon where it looked like we 0:34:21.680 --> 0:34:23.759 were writing the ship and then go on. 0:34:24.200 --> 0:34:26.800 Well, this is maybe a boring way to put it, 0:34:26.840 --> 0:34:29.200 by I'm gonna try. So. One of the things is interesting, 0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:31.200 So we had this moment after Nixon where we passed 0:34:31.200 --> 0:34:34.000 all these rules. This is why if you're a federal employee, 0:34:34.040 --> 0:34:36.000 your friend can't take you out for a cup of coffee. 0:34:36.080 --> 0:34:38.719 It drives everyone nuts. But one of the things that 0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:41.680 we kind of missed then is that actually at the 0:34:41.800 --> 0:34:44.760 very top, it's all still sort of an honor system. 0:34:44.960 --> 0:34:47.920 And that's from a combination of a lot of gaps 0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:49.960 in the rules. But then also we like don't enforce 0:34:50.080 --> 0:34:52.160 the rules for people at the very top. So it's 0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:55.799 actually kind of crazy that for decades the people at 0:34:55.800 --> 0:34:58.480 the very top kind of just pretended that there were 0:34:58.480 --> 0:35:02.640 all these rules. Jimmy Carter his peanut farm, Ronald Reagan 0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:05.640 like asked DOJ for permission to keep getting his pension 0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:09.919 from California. But sooner or later, human nature maybe being 0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:12.080 what it is, that was going to start to break down. 0:35:12.400 --> 0:35:16.200 Donald Trump was not the only president to have had scandals, 0:35:16.200 --> 0:35:18.279 but he was something of a catalyst for this. Really 0:35:18.320 --> 0:35:21.120 in his first term kept all his businesses. But now 0:35:21.160 --> 0:35:25.040 we're seeing this massive escalation with the crypto businesses, the 0:35:25.160 --> 0:35:27.960 luxury jet from Qatar, all of that. But yeah, I mean, 0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:30.919 we don't really have rules for folks at the very top. 0:35:30.960 --> 0:35:34.240 We just have tradition, and that's a problem, right. 0:35:34.120 --> 0:35:37.279 So influence trading. I think the sort of genesis of 0:35:37.320 --> 0:35:41.319 this is a donor sleeps in the Lincoln bedroom. Well, 0:35:41.360 --> 0:35:44.680 why are we not using the White House to do? 0:35:44.840 --> 0:35:46.600 You know what I mean? Like, I feel like it's 0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:50.439 a slippery slope that gets you to owning crypto companies 0:35:51.000 --> 0:35:54.919 obviously not on the same order of scale. And we are, 0:35:54.960 --> 0:36:00.000 I think in a real crisis moment for American democrats 0:36:00.320 --> 0:36:03.680 and also just for corruption with large in the government. 0:36:03.840 --> 0:36:06.280 So I want you to talk about this stop trading 0:36:06.320 --> 0:36:07.799 a little more, and that I want you to talk 0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:09.960 about sort of what this looks like and how you 0:36:10.000 --> 0:36:10.600 would do this. 0:36:11.200 --> 0:36:13.799 Yeah, it's a great question. There are a lot of 0:36:13.920 --> 0:36:15.719 proposals that have been put out, There are a lot 0:36:15.719 --> 0:36:18.040 of folks working on it. I would say that the 0:36:18.200 --> 0:36:22.880 biggest thing is that you have to actually restrict the 0:36:22.920 --> 0:36:26.760 ability of seeing members of Congress to trade securities. Right now, 0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:29.319 what we have is this kind of they're supposed to 0:36:29.320 --> 0:36:35.200 disclose it, but they do happily later sometimes yeah, thirty 0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:37.520 days later, and if they don't, they get a two 0:36:37.600 --> 0:36:40.360 hundred dollars penalty, which you know, I know that's a 0:36:40.480 --> 0:36:43.440 very serious consequence. So it's really a two piece. You 0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:47.719 have to have a meaningful restriction and then it has 0:36:47.800 --> 0:36:50.080 to be enforced, and there have to be penalties, and 0:36:50.080 --> 0:36:52.200 there has to be someone who's going to enforce it. 0:36:52.200 --> 0:36:56.360 It reminds me of the Congressional Ethics Committee. Will you 0:36:56.680 --> 0:36:59.359 talk to us about that particularly? 0:37:00.760 --> 0:37:03.440 Little Well, so there's both the House and Senate have 0:37:03.560 --> 0:37:06.600 ethics committee, and then the House has a sort of 0:37:06.640 --> 0:37:09.520 a body especially I think it's called the Office of 0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:12.239 Congressional Conduct Now it used to be the Office of 0:37:12.239 --> 0:37:13.320 Congressional Ethics. 0:37:13.520 --> 0:37:16.600 You know, it's supposed to conduct investigations. It can't actually 0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:20.160 force people to cooperate it with it. Really, it also 0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:24.920 doesn't even really exist in any permanent way. It's just 0:37:24.960 --> 0:37:28.400 a little body that's created by the rules of the House. 0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:31.399 Means it can be abolished at any time, and it's 0:37:31.440 --> 0:37:34.200 sort of a DC ritual that they flirt with just 0:37:34.239 --> 0:37:36.480 getting rid of it at the beginning of every Congress, 0:37:36.560 --> 0:37:39.319 and then they don't. Senate doesn't even have that. So 0:37:39.360 --> 0:37:43.880 there's very very weak enforcement of the rules that do exist. 0:37:44.000 --> 0:37:47.719 And isn't it true one of the committees had never 0:37:47.880 --> 0:37:53.080 found anyone to be there's some like incredibly disturbing fact 0:37:53.120 --> 0:37:54.160 about these committees. 0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:59.360 It is incredibly rare that they do anything to people. 0:37:59.560 --> 0:38:03.359 It is not a real body that people are scared of, 0:38:03.640 --> 0:38:07.200 is the sense that everyone has gotten. And then actually 0:38:07.360 --> 0:38:10.480 earlier there were there were sometimes allegations that also would 0:38:10.520 --> 0:38:15.400 just sort of politicized investigations of relatively trivial things. So 0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:19.560 the long history here of not being very effectual. 0:38:19.320 --> 0:38:21.800 So sort of like a McCarthy kind of thing. 0:38:22.080 --> 0:38:25.920 But not scary that way. So you know, like, yeah, 0:38:25.960 --> 0:38:30.760 but similar idea, you need real robust, even handed enforcement. 0:38:30.840 --> 0:38:33.640 That's actually a theme. You know, it's a lawyer theme, 0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:37.040 but it's it's this idea that the rules on the 0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:41.560 on paper just paper unless you have someone who's going 0:38:41.600 --> 0:38:44.600 to make them real. And of course right now we're 0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:47.040 thinking a lot about also that it can't just be 0:38:47.440 --> 0:38:51.680 the McCarthy, you know, approach of attacking one side and 0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:54.960 being weaponized. So it's it's it's that there's a it's 0:38:55.000 --> 0:38:56.680 a complicated sort of calculus. 0:38:56.960 --> 0:38:59.399 So there clearly is it's like one of the very 0:38:59.400 --> 0:39:02.600 few things pulls it like eighty percent. So on the 0:39:02.680 --> 0:39:06.080 left and the right, people don't want their government making 0:39:06.120 --> 0:39:08.960 money off of them, except if their last name is Trump. 0:39:09.160 --> 0:39:13.000 So what would that look like? And what are the bills? 0:39:13.120 --> 0:39:14.520 How would you pass it? 0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:17.879 Yeah, I mean there are actually a number of proposals 0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:22.040 out there. There was just a bipartisan bill introduced this week. 0:39:22.239 --> 0:39:25.160 There have been others as well. I think they all 0:39:25.280 --> 0:39:28.120 kind of have a couple different elements. They all have 0:39:28.280 --> 0:39:31.719 some sort of fairly strict prohibition. So it's either they're 0:39:31.960 --> 0:39:35.440 banned from trading stocks while they're in office, and sometimes 0:39:35.440 --> 0:39:38.960 even banned from holding stocks. Sometimes it says we use 0:39:39.000 --> 0:39:41.520 what's called a blind trust, which is that you can 0:39:41.760 --> 0:39:44.439 have someone else trade stocks for you, provided you don't 0:39:44.560 --> 0:39:47.800 know what they're trading, right, and it's in a satting account. 0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:49.960 So they all have this. And then the second component 0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:52.480 is they all have some sort of penalty, right, and 0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:55.600 it usually is a stiffer penalty than two hundred bucks 0:39:55.680 --> 0:39:58.880 per violation. It might be that you have to you know, 0:39:59.480 --> 0:40:03.720 discord is the legal term the asset plus ten percent, 0:40:03.800 --> 0:40:06.640 so you have a penalty. And that is the other 0:40:06.719 --> 0:40:11.080 really critical component. And then some proposals also beef up 0:40:11.160 --> 0:40:14.200 the Office of Congressional Conduct right so that it can 0:40:14.239 --> 0:40:17.640 actually issue subpoenas, it can actually act as an enforcer. 0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:20.560 And there are different combinations there, but this is the 0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:23.120 gist of all of these things is to get at 0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:27.120 that and to have a real enforceable constraint on members. 0:40:27.640 --> 0:40:30.600 How would this pass? Wasn't there a cutout in the 0:40:30.640 --> 0:40:33.960 BBB for this? And then Donald Trump didn't want it? 0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:36.440 And then it got Yeah, so talk us through that, because. 0:40:36.239 --> 0:40:40.160 That was that is the great question. Because you look 0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:42.680 at yourself, You're like, it's got eighty percent approval rating, 0:40:42.680 --> 0:40:45.680 You've got all these Democrats and Republicans who say they 0:40:45.719 --> 0:40:48.600 want to do it, and then it hasn't gotten done. 0:40:48.960 --> 0:40:51.759 Here's the reality, right, is that I think and this 0:40:51.920 --> 0:40:55.719 is true for anti corruption rules generally. Is there is 0:40:56.120 --> 0:41:00.440 a dearth of political will sometimes because even the people 0:41:00.480 --> 0:41:03.600 know this stuff is popular, they don't like it. Actually. 0:41:03.920 --> 0:41:06.560 So what I actually think needs to happen, right is 0:41:06.600 --> 0:41:09.200 there needs to be kind of overwhelming pressure. This is 0:41:09.320 --> 0:41:12.319 just that you have to save them from themselves to 0:41:12.360 --> 0:41:15.800 some extent, and that is going to I mean, that's 0:41:15.880 --> 0:41:18.480 really something on both sides of the aisle. Right. The 0:41:18.560 --> 0:41:22.840 Democrats have this huge challenge now, which is that they 0:41:23.480 --> 0:41:26.640 know that corruption is a weakness. And the Brennan Center's 0:41:26.680 --> 0:41:29.799 non partisan, but this I'm speaking just from the outside. 0:41:30.000 --> 0:41:32.319 They know Donald Trump is very weak. People don't like 0:41:32.480 --> 0:41:36.160 the corruption, but the catches. People don't really trust the Democrats, 0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:39.040 and in fact, their corruption ratings are as bad as 0:41:39.080 --> 0:41:43.120 his or worse in some polls. So they both sides 0:41:43.120 --> 0:41:45.240 need to figure out how to actually get the public 0:41:45.360 --> 0:41:49.839 to trust them beyond their core partisans. And the way 0:41:49.920 --> 0:41:53.400 I think that this happens partly, it could be the 0:41:53.440 --> 0:41:56.480 Democrats could be Republicans could be a bipartisan coalition. 0:41:56.360 --> 0:41:59.400 R is anti corruption legislation. 0:41:58.960 --> 0:42:01.760 And people realize they can't keep talking about this stuff 0:42:01.760 --> 0:42:04.640 and not doing anything. They actually have to act and 0:42:04.960 --> 0:42:08.040 that at a certain point the pressure becomes overwhelming. But 0:42:08.400 --> 0:42:10.239 you know, the Democrats, there was a story in the 0:42:10.280 --> 0:42:12.319 Post the Democrats are going to make this a big 0:42:12.360 --> 0:42:15.680 theme of their midterm campaign. But there is a kind 0:42:15.680 --> 0:42:18.799 of where's the beef moment? You actually have to be 0:42:18.960 --> 0:42:20.280 ready to do these things. 0:42:20.360 --> 0:42:24.759 Then, yeah, in the BBB they almost did pass it. 0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:27.640 It was just the Trump wanted to cut out. And 0:42:27.680 --> 0:42:31.440 then also they decided they just didn't need to write. 0:42:31.440 --> 0:42:33.120 I mean like they were just like, if we're just 0:42:33.160 --> 0:42:36.280 going to do unpopular legislation, why should we stop making money? 0:42:36.560 --> 0:42:39.319 Right? I mean, and different people could debate whether they 0:42:39.360 --> 0:42:41.840 really were almost going to do it, whether this was 0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:45.520 a bit of a bit of a show. There are 0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:48.279 certainly people in the Republican Caucus in the House and 0:42:48.600 --> 0:42:50.279 the Senator who really want to do it, but there's 0:42:50.320 --> 0:42:54.480 also some pretty open, transparent opposition. I think it was 0:42:54.520 --> 0:42:56.839 one senator I might have been Rick Scott who said, well, 0:42:56.880 --> 0:43:00.440 I like making money and so beautiful, and you probably 0:43:00.440 --> 0:43:02.879 have people in the Democratics I'd sayd that too, right, 0:43:03.120 --> 0:43:06.920 more quietly, more quietly. So this is it's a real 0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:10.680 challenge not just with this but frankly with all sort 0:43:10.719 --> 0:43:12.480 of anti corruption legislation. 0:43:12.880 --> 0:43:15.600 One of the things that I would love you to 0:43:15.640 --> 0:43:18.120 talk about for a minute is when we talk about 0:43:18.120 --> 0:43:20.880 anti coruption and legislation, is that there were a number 0:43:20.880 --> 0:43:24.920 of things that did not pass last Congress because of 0:43:25.040 --> 0:43:29.400 Kristen Cinema and Joe Manchin, two people who have gone 0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:32.840 on to do what exactly. 0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:36.000 You know, I haven't kept up with their careers as 0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:36.760 much as I should. 0:43:37.120 --> 0:43:41.840 Okay, well, it's okay, I have. So she's working on AI, 0:43:43.040 --> 0:43:49.040 she's working on mushrooms, she is, he is, you know, 0:43:49.160 --> 0:43:52.480 gone back to I Just my point here is that 0:43:52.560 --> 0:43:56.919 they both sort of their lobby adjacent or maybe lobbyists, 0:43:56.960 --> 0:44:00.000 and they were the reason that ROE is not codified, 0:44:00.080 --> 0:44:03.000 that voting rights is not modified, that any number of things. 0:44:03.160 --> 0:44:07.040 I wonder if you could talk about anti lobbying, anti 0:44:07.080 --> 0:44:08.839 corruption and that kind of thing. 0:44:09.120 --> 0:44:12.360 Yeah, I mean, look, what I would say about both 0:44:12.400 --> 0:44:16.560 of them is that people who wanted to preserve the 0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:20.319 way Washington was doing things. And I'm not going to 0:44:20.320 --> 0:44:24.160 get into why their careers and their lives speak for themselves, 0:44:24.239 --> 0:44:27.960 but it was a real problem. It also, I think, 0:44:28.120 --> 0:44:32.560 and you know, I'm a huge believer in voting rights, 0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:35.760 but and in the Brennan Center is where I work. 0:44:35.920 --> 0:44:40.359 But I think that critical anti corruption piece, for very 0:44:40.440 --> 0:44:44.720 understandable reasons, got a little lost actually in the political debate, 0:44:44.920 --> 0:44:47.000 so there was a sense of which a little bit 0:44:47.080 --> 0:44:49.680 was left on the table. Anti corruption is very popular 0:44:49.719 --> 0:44:53.680 in West Virginia, and Cinemon Mansion were differently situated. I mean, 0:44:53.760 --> 0:44:57.000 Mansion was representing one of the most republican states in 0:44:57.040 --> 0:45:00.000 the country, but that is actually very popular in West Virginia, 0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:04.239 and the debate, while it was incredibly important for us 0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:06.640 to be talking about voting rights, there is a sense 0:45:06.680 --> 0:45:10.359 of which that anti corruption piece got lost a little bit, 0:45:10.560 --> 0:45:14.240 and that made it easier, frankly, for the whole effort 0:45:14.280 --> 0:45:16.480 to be just painted as something that was not going 0:45:16.520 --> 0:45:18.640 to be of interest to Red state voters. I don't 0:45:18.680 --> 0:45:21.280 agree with that. I think the voting rights is important 0:45:21.480 --> 0:45:25.360 for everyone, but I think they were supposed to be combined, 0:45:25.560 --> 0:45:27.120 and I think, you know, one of the lessons, you 0:45:27.200 --> 0:45:30.240 really got to keep both of them in focus, because 0:45:30.320 --> 0:45:34.200 anti corruption has tremendous appeal across the country. 0:45:33.920 --> 0:45:38.400 Right exactly exactly when you think about sort of putting 0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:43.160 these anti corruption legislation in place. Do you think democrats 0:45:43.160 --> 0:45:46.160 should run? Like, what is your vision of this? Democrats 0:45:46.280 --> 0:45:49.279 run on it? Or sort of what does it look like? 0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:54.479 It is such a great question. I think anyone who 0:45:54.680 --> 0:45:59.480 wants to actually get beyond this sort of toxic fifty 0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:04.640 percent plus one dude or one person needs to Yes, 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:08.120 run on those issues, but then actually make a commitment 0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:11.000 to doing them and then do it like. Actually, I 0:46:11.040 --> 0:46:14.279 think the most dangerous time in some ways isn't why 0:46:14.280 --> 0:46:17.440 you're running. It's oh, you won power, you promise to 0:46:17.480 --> 0:46:19.520 do this stuff. Are you going to do it? And 0:46:19.560 --> 0:46:22.000 I think for the thing that I worry the most about, 0:46:22.040 --> 0:46:23.920 So yes, I think it is a very very very 0:46:23.960 --> 0:46:27.359 potent political message. But I think it can also be 0:46:27.600 --> 0:46:30.359 one that is not without risk, because you really are 0:46:30.400 --> 0:46:33.960 creating an expectation you'll do something. If you don't, the 0:46:34.040 --> 0:46:36.400 public is going to remember. I look at the system 0:46:36.440 --> 0:46:38.319 as a whole, and I look at how are we 0:46:38.400 --> 0:46:41.440 going to actually put our democracy on some sort of 0:46:41.480 --> 0:46:44.840 stable footing. I know that sounds crazy right now. No 0:46:45.880 --> 0:46:48.200 people getting elected and then not doing the thing they 0:46:48.200 --> 0:46:51.000 promised to do on this is what actually keeps me 0:46:51.080 --> 0:46:51.480 up at night. 0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:55.520 No, for sure, and I also think that there's such 0:46:55.800 --> 0:46:59.880 hostility towards the federal government for any number of reasons. 0:47:00.000 --> 0:47:02.480 It's like, you don't get to the kind of stuff 0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:06.280 that's in Project twenty twenty five without a lot of anger. 0:47:06.120 --> 0:47:07.200 At the federal government. 0:47:07.600 --> 0:47:10.200 So true, you know, as we're watching them, you know, 0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:12.760 huge swaths of the federal government have been fired. 0:47:13.040 --> 0:47:13.640 I wonder if you. 0:47:13.640 --> 0:47:15.840 Could talk about you know, a lot of those protections 0:47:15.840 --> 0:47:18.799 are not there anymore, A lot of those people are 0:47:18.840 --> 0:47:20.600 not you know, there are certain parts of. 0:47:20.600 --> 0:47:21.920 The government that are gone. 0:47:22.040 --> 0:47:22.320 Now. 0:47:22.880 --> 0:47:26.879 Yeah. Part of the problem again is that these things 0:47:26.960 --> 0:47:30.960 are all a mix of rules and written down laws, 0:47:31.000 --> 0:47:34.440 but then traditions and you just don't do certain things. 0:47:35.239 --> 0:47:39.120 Big theme is we have given the president's enormous amounts 0:47:39.160 --> 0:47:41.840 of power, and now he's being embedded by a Supreme 0:47:41.880 --> 0:47:44.680 Court that has an agenda to have a sort of 0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:48.040 monarchical president. I don't look into their souls. I don't 0:47:48.040 --> 0:47:50.560 know why this is important to them, but it is 0:47:50.600 --> 0:47:54.360 a long term ideological project of the US Supreme Court. 0:47:54.680 --> 0:47:58.560 The only way and it is a huge challenge. But 0:47:59.200 --> 0:48:02.000 and here's where I really think is the hitch. We 0:48:02.120 --> 0:48:05.200 got to make it so that people actually believe government 0:48:05.280 --> 0:48:07.480 is a good thing. And you know, part of what 0:48:07.680 --> 0:48:12.239 drives people like me to distraction about Doge is it's 0:48:12.280 --> 0:48:15.240 not like there couldn't be a review of the federal 0:48:15.239 --> 0:48:17.040 government in an effort to make it work better. But 0:48:17.040 --> 0:48:19.359 you got to start from like government is important. So 0:48:19.400 --> 0:48:21.560 I think that the way to do this right for 0:48:21.600 --> 0:48:25.480 anyone is you've got to come to the people, acknowledging 0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:29.800 legitimate cynicism, and then have a plan to make it better. 0:48:29.840 --> 0:48:32.680 And this gets us back to stock trading. The reason 0:48:32.760 --> 0:48:35.680 you start there is because you acknowledge that this isn't 0:48:35.880 --> 0:48:39.320 just about your enemy, this is about you too, and 0:48:39.360 --> 0:48:42.640 you know, figuratively, and that's how they've got to do it, 0:48:42.680 --> 0:48:44.479 which is actually why I think the stock trading piece 0:48:44.560 --> 0:48:47.600 is a good place to start. Yeah, thank you, Dan, 0:48:48.200 --> 0:48:50.439 thank you for having me. This was so much fun. 0:48:52.400 --> 0:48:54.279 A moment. 0:48:55.800 --> 0:49:00.520 Jesse Cannon, so Molly, wait for it. There's more election 0:49:00.680 --> 0:49:04.000 fuckery down in Texas. The Republican Party of Texas is 0:49:04.040 --> 0:49:08.240 suing the state saying open primaries violate its free speech. 0:49:08.800 --> 0:49:10.600 Texas logic is what I heard it called. 0:49:10.840 --> 0:49:12.879 All I can say is that they will cook up 0:49:12.960 --> 0:49:16.600 any reason to not do those things that's good for democracy. 0:49:16.920 --> 0:49:19.120 Well, I think this is even more that they are 0:49:19.160 --> 0:49:21.480 trying to get more radical candidates and what they don't 0:49:21.480 --> 0:49:24.600 want is Democrats and independence voting in the Republican primary 0:49:24.640 --> 0:49:28.399 because they want the more fervent, fever swamp people voting more. 0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:33.839 Yeah, open primaries mean that you have more normal candidates, 0:49:33.920 --> 0:49:36.719 just like rank choice voting in primaries is also good. 0:49:36.880 --> 0:49:41.720 But you know, the Republican Party is kind of nutty, 0:49:41.840 --> 0:49:45.680 and they use Texas as a place to do that nuttiness. 0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:49.880 It really is the lab for really really bad policy. 0:49:50.160 --> 0:49:54.600 Everything bad comes through Texas. That's it for. 0:49:54.600 --> 0:50:00.440 This episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, 0:50:00.719 --> 0:50:05.200 Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics 0:50:05.239 --> 0:50:06.120 make sense. 0:50:05.880 --> 0:50:07.680 Of all this chaos. 0:50:08.040 --> 0:50:10.840 If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a 0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:14.920 friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.