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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and RFK Junior says the US COVID

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Speaker 1: response was the worst in the world. Hm, we have

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Speaker 1: such a great show for you today. MSNBC's own Stephanie

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Speaker 1: Rule stops by to talk to us about the disappointing

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Speaker 1: job numbers and what they could mean to the Trump administration.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to the Brennan Center's own Dan Weiner

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Speaker 1: about the congressional stock band that everybody wants but we

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Speaker 1: seem to not be able to get. But first the

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Speaker 1: stories everyone is talking.

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Speaker 2: About Somali As we know, the Trump got some bad

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Speaker 2: job numbers. But I need to teach you about numbers.

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to bring in a professor. His name

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Speaker 2: is Rep. Randy Fine.

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Speaker 1: Ah the best Randy Fine.

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Speaker 2: He's doed for being such an awful human. Even Marjorie

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Speaker 2: Taylor Greed lectures about death. What's listened to this fellow

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Speaker 2: tell us about what's going on in the world coming out.

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Speaker 3: The August jobs record and a little of our who

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Speaker 3: knows what time it is anymore, it's a million o'clock

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Speaker 3: on seeing at New Central. It will be coming out

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Speaker 3: shortly and we will bring it to everyone when it does.

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Speaker 3: Are you going to believe the numbers?

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Speaker 4: I'm going to I'm going to look at the numbers.

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Speaker 5: Look, the people who put these numbers together are human,

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Speaker 5: and they're fallible, and they make mistakes. And if you

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Speaker 5: go back and you look how these numbers always e

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Speaker 5: was they make mistage?

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Speaker 6: It wasn't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't that they make mistakes. The reason that

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Speaker 3: the President kicked out the commissioner of their of labor

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Speaker 3: Stations was he said that they were they were faking it,

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Speaker 3: they were cooking the books, which there's no evidence of that.

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Speaker 5: So do you think when then, when the numbers, when

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Speaker 5: the numbers are always wrong in one direction, you have

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Speaker 5: reason to be suspect. And so here's my understand that

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Speaker 5: what I can tell you is.

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Speaker 3: When businesses respond and give the information and submit and

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Speaker 3: respond to the ask from the Labor Department, then they

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Speaker 3: can't adjust what they have. It's like I get more information,

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Speaker 3: we can adjust the numbers. That's been happening from the

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Speaker 3: beginning of time. Yes, there has been more variable that's

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Speaker 3: for a lot of reasons which they say fewer businesses

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Speaker 3: are actually responding to these surveys, but that doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: they're cooking the books.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think that when there's problems with methodology, sometimes

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Speaker 5: it's intentional, sometimes it's not. But when the numbers are

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Speaker 5: always do you think why the direction? There's a reason

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Speaker 5: to have I think the methodologies were problematic, And we

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Speaker 5: see this in all kinds of things, where numbers always

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Speaker 5: tend to benefit the left, and when the facts come

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Speaker 5: out they don't anymore.

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Speaker 1: And so I think the president, yes, the facts have

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Speaker 1: a liberal bias.

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Speaker 6: Where have I heard that before? There's a reason for that.

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Speaker 4: We have heard that before.

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Speaker 1: And Randy fine, and ladies and gentlemen, Randy fine. All

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say is that the unemployment rate for

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Speaker 1: the youngs is ten point five percent, which is not great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a really really bad sign for breaking

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Speaker 2: this social contract with our youth.

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Speaker 1: Turns out you guys shouldn't have voted for Trump.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And well, if he thought they responded badly when they

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Speaker 2: got taught by Andrew Tate, just imagine how badly they're

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Speaker 2: going to respond when they were told to get a

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Speaker 2: degree and it means nothing.

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Speaker 6: Oh, I'm not going to blame education for this.

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Speaker 4: I'm not blaming education.

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Speaker 2: I'm blaming the breaking of the social contract by the

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Speaker 2: corporations who aren't hiring them because they're now useless and

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Speaker 2: we told them to get that degree and now it's worthless.

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Speaker 4: It's not education's fault. It's a corporate America's.

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Speaker 1: Fault either way. Chicken egg whatever not good. But you

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Speaker 1: know what else is not good?

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Speaker 2: Jesse Kennon, Well, I have to say a staffer at

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Speaker 2: the DOJ saying that they're going to take out all

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Speaker 2: the Republican names of the Epstein files brought to us

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Speaker 2: by Conservative Little what do we even call him?

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Speaker 4: James O'Keefe.

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Speaker 1: Before we go to get to this story, I just

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Speaker 1: want to point out there have just been a couple

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Speaker 1: of times this week Thomas Massey mtg Ran Paul saying

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Speaker 1: we shouldn't bomb ships if we don't know who's in them.

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Speaker 1: Three different really truly horrendous humans, all of whom made

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Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me this week, a lot.

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Speaker 1: So I just want to say, before we get to

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Speaker 1: this story, this is a person, James O'Keefe. He got

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Speaker 1: fired from Project Veritas. He does now the James O'Keeffe

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Speaker 1: project or whatever. This is not someone you want to

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Speaker 1: be elevating and yet continue.

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Speaker 2: So he basically did a honeypot, which for those who

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Speaker 2: don't know that turbo, it's like he gave a attractive

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Speaker 2: girl camera and she flirted with a guy who tried

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Speaker 2: to impress her and said that they're gonna only leave

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Speaker 2: the liberals of the Epstein files they release, which yes,

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Speaker 2: pretty hilarious. Exactly what all of us could have predicted

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Speaker 2: what happened months and months ago.

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Speaker 1: Incredible. Basically, he says to her, we have a plan,

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Speaker 1: and the plan is pretty much what all of us thought.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, this is not some yahoo what's

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Speaker 1: his title.

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Speaker 2: Acting Deputy Chief of the DOJ's Office of Enforcement Operations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so this guy is in a position to do

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Speaker 1: such a thing. And he says if they're released in

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Speaker 1: any way, it's going to be very redacted, which that

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Speaker 1: makes sense. They'll redact every Republican or conservative person in

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Speaker 1: the files. That doesn't make sense, leave all the liberal

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Speaker 1: democratic people in the files. Joseph Schnitt, acting director of

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Speaker 1: the DOJ's Office of Enforcement Organization, says in a video.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so look forward to that. Sorry, Bill Clinton anyway,

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Speaker 2: So after Robert F. Kennedy's, I would put that the

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Speaker 2: top five most disastrous testimonies I've ever seen Molley where

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Speaker 2: you reckon.

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Speaker 1: I think he could do worse, by the way, the

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Speaker 1: times when Kennedy did the worst, or the times when

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Speaker 1: members of Congress were careful and drew them out, like,

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Speaker 1: for example, Republican Senator John Cassidy, who has clearly I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: he was the needed vote for Kennedy, but he is

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Speaker 1: a doctor. He's a gastroinrologist, so he knows that he

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Speaker 1: fucked up big time. He starts with this questioning and

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Speaker 1: he says, do you think that Donald Trump should win

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Speaker 1: a Nobel Prize for Operation Warp Speed? And let me

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Speaker 1: tell you all Donald Trump wants is his fucking prize. Right,

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Speaker 1: He's like the mango god dictator of our country. He

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Speaker 1: has more prouder than any president ever, and all the

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Speaker 1: man wants is a prize. This I could not relate

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Speaker 1: to more. I mean, I am not a dictator, but

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Speaker 1: I really want a prize. So here he says I

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Speaker 1: want this prize. Senator Bill Cassidy gets him going, says,

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Speaker 1: do you think he deserves a prize?

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Speaker 6: Ourf cases.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, then Cassidy is like I thought vaccines were bad,

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Speaker 1: you know, and RF cake can't get out of it.

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Speaker 1: Those were the most effective question I thought the least

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Speaker 1: effective questioning, and it made the rounds on the internet.

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Speaker 1: But there was one a video of a Democratic senator

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Speaker 1: just being like, you're a Charlottean Like. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that's as effective as getting him to really talk himself

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Speaker 1: into a corner. I think it makes more sense to

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Speaker 1: do that than to just yell at him. Mark Warner

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Speaker 1: got really mad at him and started yelling at him too,

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Speaker 1: and Barrasso, who is number two Senate Whip said, and

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Speaker 1: he's an orthopedic surgeon. I mean, this is the thing,

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Speaker 1: like you have all these doctors who signed on to this.

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Speaker 1: They did this to themselves and to us. I don't

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Speaker 1: have a lot of knockus for this crew, but I

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Speaker 1: still think it was pretty interesting watching them just take

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Speaker 1: him apart.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree to Maria Kentwell and Elizabeth Warren really

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Speaker 2: did a great job with Yeah.

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Speaker 1: See, I thought Warren did a better job than can't Well.

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Speaker 1: Can't Well was just like.

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Speaker 2: She got him on a few things that I thought

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Speaker 2: were good. But yes, I agree that Warren was better.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, can't. Well, it's good, but like catch him in

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Speaker 1: the lies, don't tell him he sucks.

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Speaker 6: We know he sucks well.

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Speaker 2: Regardless, his red faced performance of breathing weird and talking

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Speaker 2: strangely has him on very thin ice, apparently with Republican centers.

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Speaker 2: According to sources at the Hill, they're telling mister Trump

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Speaker 2: that RFK juniors on thin ice.

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Speaker 4: Buddy, you better watch it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure Donald Trump as he fires, I'm sure he's

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Speaker 1: listening real hard to the people who gave away all

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Speaker 1: their power.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But at the same time, Trump does have that

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Speaker 2: preservationist instinct that if RFK does become a liability for him,

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Speaker 2: I don't think he's a long for this world. It's

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Speaker 2: just more right now he thinks he's a benefit. Come well,

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Speaker 2: as I said, Donald Trump thinks. I don't believe he.

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Speaker 6: Thinks that, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, if he fires RFK, which he absolutely should,

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Speaker 1: and by the way, Bernie was out there last week

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Speaker 1: with it obed in the Times saying that he should

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Speaker 1: be forced to resign, which I was so impressed that

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Speaker 1: he did that, and that was what democratic leadership should

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Speaker 1: be all over.

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Speaker 6: We should have his doing that, we should have Schumer

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Speaker 6: doing that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Also to that point, he was everywhere doing that. He

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Speaker 2: made every type of video. The YouTube did really well.

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Speaker 2: He knew how to play that media ecosystem, unlike the

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Speaker 2: leadership right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't understand what's happening with the leadership. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: so till us everybody in the world. Everybody in the

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Speaker 1: world freaking out about this.

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Speaker 6: But I don't know. We'll see what happens.

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Speaker 1: Look, if Trump fires Kennedy, which he absolutely, one hundred percent,

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Speaker 1: unequivocally should, he's going to have those angry Maha women

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Speaker 1: making videos about him.

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Speaker 6: We'll see.

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Speaker 2: So, Malli, it's not looking good for that discharge petition

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Speaker 2: over the Epstein files.

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Speaker 4: What do you see in here?

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Speaker 1: So basically there are two more positions that are going

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Speaker 1: to be filled. The last time I talked to them,

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Speaker 1: they still thought they had the votes. I don't know

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Speaker 1: I can ask them again.

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Speaker 4: Well, as of this taping, it's not looking so hot.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the only one I see changing tactics there

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Speaker 1: is Paulina Luna, but it's certainly possible that it won't

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Speaker 1: get through. I mean, the good news is that the

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Speaker 1: women can put together their own list. I mean they

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Speaker 1: can and Marjorie Taylor Green can go to converse and

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Speaker 1: read it. I mean, there's a lot of corruption happening here,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that Trump doesn't want the Epstein stuff

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Speaker 1: released seems in.

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Speaker 6: My mind kind of like a big towel.

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Speaker 1: Steph Rule is the host of MSNBC's The Eleventh Hour.

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Speaker 1: Watch Steph Rule at the upcoming MSNBC Live twenty five

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Speaker 1: This Is Who We Are event on October eleventh in

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Speaker 1: New York City. Stephanie Rall, Welcome to Path Politics.

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Speaker 8: I'm excited to be here. Majong. You are on my

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Speaker 8: mind all summer as I learned majong this summer, and

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Speaker 8: I'm like, just like Mollie, feel like like she wants

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Speaker 8: to do like a Mazong thing that their name.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, I would a like to learn how to

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Speaker 1: play majong.

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Speaker 8: And yes, so okay, I'm gonna tell you. This was

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Speaker 8: the summer I turned old, I learned majong, I learned canasta,

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Speaker 8: and I took my son to college. So like, I

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Speaker 8: am like officially a golden girl and I'm here for it.

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Speaker 8: I'm just saying that, all right.

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Speaker 1: So besides those many skills. You have other skills, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not very good at any of those yet just

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Speaker 1: so good.

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Speaker 8: And when you meet a woman who's really good at

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Speaker 8: majong revere her because she's the smarty pants, I'm not

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Speaker 8: one of them. Well, I go back to business excited

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Speaker 8: to learn.

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Speaker 1: So today Ken Donald Trump fire the head of Bureau

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Speaker 1: and Labor Statistics.

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Speaker 6: Again.

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Speaker 8: No, what Donald Trump and how our Leutnik are doing

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Speaker 8: now are basically saying, don't pay attention to these numbers.

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Speaker 8: Six months from now, a year from now, as Donald

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Speaker 8: Trump said, when the genius palaces are built, And like,

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Speaker 8: I don't know what a genius palace is, but I'm

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Speaker 8: definitely putting that sign above my bedroom door. From now on,

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Speaker 8: you are now entering the genius palace. No, now, they're

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Speaker 8: just moving the goalpost. Because remember Donald Trump was going

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Speaker 8: to lower grocery prices day one. Everything was going to

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Speaker 8: be booming. It was going to be an m and

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Speaker 8: a bonanza. You were just going to see business and

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Speaker 8: building investments coming, YadA, YadA, YadA. None of that's happened yet.

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Speaker 8: One of the main reasons that hasn't happened is because

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Speaker 8: Donald Trump has led his tower for Donald Trump is

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Speaker 8: now involving himself in all sorts of private industries. And

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Speaker 8: what happens that freezes up business because nobody knows what's

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Speaker 8: coming next. Because as opposed to what Republicans swear that

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Speaker 8: they are free market capitalists, you now have a president

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Speaker 8: who's directly getting involved in all sorts of businesses here

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Speaker 8: and abroad. So businesses don't know what to do or

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Speaker 8: how to spend their money, and they're not investing. Okay,

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Speaker 8: So here we are, nine months in, we're getting a

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Speaker 8: jobs report that's not strong. We're revisions to previous months.

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Speaker 8: They're lower and lower and lower, and core inflation is

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Speaker 8: above three percent. So Donald Trump is going to get

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Speaker 8: what he wants. Investors are going to get what they want,

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Speaker 8: and they're going to get a rate cut. But they're

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Speaker 8: not getting a ray cut because insallation's down. We're getting

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Speaker 8: a rate cut because we have many, many signs that

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Speaker 8: the economy is slowing. So here you have in America.

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Speaker 8: Employers are not hiring, employers are not raising wages, and

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Speaker 8: things are costing a lot of money below stagflation. This

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Speaker 8: is America.

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Speaker 1: So let's i So let's talk about that. The reason

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Speaker 1: that they didn't want to cut the rates until now

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Speaker 1: was because of the worry of inflation. Is that no

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Speaker 1: longer a worry It sounds like it's not, or is

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Speaker 1: it just so such a dire explain why they're doing it?

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Speaker 8: Still a worry. But the Fed has a dual mandate

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Speaker 8: to make sure the economy is growing and to keep

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Speaker 8: inflation in check. It's not one or the other. And

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Speaker 8: this is the thing about investors and Donald Trump. Investors

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Speaker 8: want a rate cut, and they also want a stable economy, right,

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Speaker 8: And I shouldn't say that they want a growing economy.

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Speaker 8: They want a strong economy. And it's not that we

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Speaker 8: have a bad economy.

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Speaker 6: We don't.

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Speaker 8: We have a good economy, but things are weakening because

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Speaker 8: of Donald Trump's trade war, and you still have this

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Speaker 8: pesky inflation situation. So we're going to get the rate cut,

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Speaker 8: but not necessarily in the way that Donald Trump wants.

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Speaker 8: And you know, just yesterday when Bill Poulti who runs

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Speaker 8: the housing agency that tipped off Donald Trump claiming that

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Speaker 8: Lisa Cooke, the FED governor, committed fraud. He's now sort

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Speaker 8: of planting the seeds that will listen. Jay Powell hasn't

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Speaker 8: fired Lisa Cook yet and that could end up being

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Speaker 8: caused for him to get fired. It's like Donald Trump

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Speaker 8: just did set at this point that he desperately wants

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Speaker 8: to fire j Powell. And it's not for malpractice. It's

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Speaker 8: about control. Since Donald Trump took off as this second term,

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Speaker 8: it's how can I bend every cabinet member, every industry,

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Speaker 8: every leader to the whims of what I want, every

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Speaker 8: country to the whims of what I want? And Jay

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Speaker 8: Powell hasn't done it, and he is dead set on

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Speaker 8: firing him. It makes no sense because Jay Powell's term

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Speaker 8: is done in nine months. He's going regardless. But it's

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Speaker 8: like Donald Trump needs to win this one, and Scott

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Speaker 8: Besant has warned the President, do not do this. It

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Speaker 8: is not a good idea to fire on him because

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Speaker 8: you know, one of the core tenants of American exceptionalism

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Speaker 8: is our central bank being independent. Because Molly, every single

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Speaker 8: politician who lives on short termism, which they all do

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Speaker 8: because they all need to get elected every four years,

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Speaker 8: would say, let's cut rates down to zero.

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Speaker 9: Because rates are zero, we're gonna buy houses, We're gonna borrow, borrow, barrow,

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Speaker 9: and spend, spend, spend, But politicians who just worry about

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Speaker 9: the short term don't have to think about the big picture,

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Speaker 9: long term impacts.

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Speaker 8: That's what the FED has to do, and that's where

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Speaker 8: the fed's independence is crucial. And this is the first

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Speaker 8: time in our lifetimes we are now hearing FED governors

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Speaker 8: talked about like this one's on my team, this one's

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Speaker 8: on your team. That's not how the FED operates. It

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Speaker 8: was never like the Supreme Court, right, and the Supreme

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Speaker 8: Court was never supposed to be like this.

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Speaker 1: Very correct, But explain to us if you lower interest rates,

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Speaker 1: what is the danger.

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Speaker 8: The things are gonna heat up too quickly right that

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Speaker 8: everyone is gonna start spending and everyone's gonna start borrowing, like,

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Speaker 8: oh my gosh, my credit card rates nothing, I'm gonna

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Speaker 8: I'm gonna spend, I'm gonna spend. I'm gonna spend when

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Speaker 8: the under when we're not when the underlying economy isn't

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Speaker 8: strong enough, And the risk in doing that is bad

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Speaker 8: for us across the board. And it's not how the

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Speaker 8: markets view things, because if you were in a business,

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Speaker 8: you want to borrow as cheaply as you can all

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Speaker 8: the time.

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Speaker 1: The tariffs are inflationary because things are more expensive, and

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Speaker 1: they were.

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Speaker 6: Like much much.

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Speaker 1: I mean, our tariff rate is really really high. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's the highest of any in the.

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Speaker 8: De for no reason. Because let's remember, tariffs aren't a

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Speaker 8: good or a bad thing. Tariffs are a tool. And

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Speaker 8: it is totally fair and accurate to say that China

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Speaker 8: has unfair trading practices, which is why the idea to

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Speaker 8: put together a coalition of the United States and ally

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Speaker 8: nations to work together to figure out a way to

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Speaker 8: prevent or stop China from doing this, which is why

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Speaker 8: they put together the Trans Specific Partnership towards the end

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Speaker 8: of the Obama administration and Trump said, no way, HOSEI,

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Speaker 8: We're not doing this. But instead of us working with

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Speaker 8: other countries, Donald Trump went into office and one of

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Speaker 8: the main reasons he likes tariffs is it's very powerful

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Speaker 8: for him. Right, this is what gives him the chance

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Speaker 8: to be a kingmaker where other countries come to him

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Speaker 8: and say please or don't do this, like trade is

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Speaker 8: so important to us. It's where CEO after CEO is

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Speaker 8: going to the White House hat in hand looking for

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Speaker 8: an exemption.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 8: I am sure you watched last night those tech leaders

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Speaker 8: show up for that dinner at the White House, none

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Speaker 8: of whom are being intellectually honest with the President, because

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Speaker 8: I'm sure in their mind they can't be right if

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Speaker 8: you're Tim Cook, and you could say, how could Tim

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Speaker 8: Cook of Apple go to the White House give Donald

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Speaker 8: Trump the gold phone tap dance form? Because he has

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Speaker 8: a business to run, and in putting on his dog

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Speaker 8: and pony show for the President, he avoided rippling tariffs

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Speaker 8: on his company, and so one would say Tim Cook

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Speaker 8: did the right thing for his company. But the question

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Speaker 8: is are these business leaders doing the right thing for

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Speaker 8: their companies and their country because they should be thought

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Speaker 8: of as these leaders in society and culture. They're saying,

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Speaker 8: hold on, is this going to help our economy as

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Speaker 8: a whole? And they're watching the President and what he's

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Speaker 8: doing with the FED, and they know that it's dangerous,

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Speaker 8: and they're not saying anything because they're playing a game

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Speaker 8: of survival. And I get it. They know the President

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Speaker 8: will target you if you speak out against him in

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Speaker 8: any way.

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Speaker 1: It seems like we have a permission structure or we're

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Speaker 1: going down road where nobody says the truth. So you

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Speaker 1: don't have business leaders saying the truth, You don't have

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Speaker 1: members of the FED saying the truth because the don't

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Speaker 1: want to get fired.

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Speaker 8: You don't have you just sort of So where's things

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Speaker 8: like the Business Roundtable? Like the Business round Table's purpose, right,

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Speaker 8: is to bring business leaders together, is to work with government,

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Speaker 8: is to work with the administration and say this is

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Speaker 8: what is happening in the business universe, this is what

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Speaker 8: would help us, this is what would hurt us. This

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Speaker 8: is a real economy, this is the real labor market.

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Speaker 8: And they're not saying anything. And it's not that different

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Speaker 8: from if you think about when the president first went

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Speaker 8: after law firms. It was not after you know, DEI practices.

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Speaker 8: He was going after law firms that worked with people

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Speaker 8: that he perceived to be his enemies. Yeah, just like

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Speaker 8: going after university. Not about fighting anti Semitism, right, it's

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Speaker 8: about doing what Donald Trump wants and Donald Trump being

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Speaker 8: in charge. I get that's what he wants. But by

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Speaker 8: not just standing up, not not really fighting but standing

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Speaker 8: up for what's right, everyone's hurting themselves. Right If all

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Speaker 8: those law firms would have said, you can't take Paul

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Speaker 8: Weiss down, We're going to stand lock arms and stand together.

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Speaker 8: But instead, as soon as he went after Paul Weiss,

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Speaker 8: all of Paul Weiss's competitors said great and called Paul

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Speaker 8: Weiss's clients and said, hello, we'd like to be your

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Speaker 8: We'd like to be your new law firm. In the

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Speaker 8: same way Molly that that early in the Trump administration,

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Speaker 8: when what was it he wanted to kick the AP

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Speaker 8: out because they were unwilling to call it the Gulf

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Speaker 8: of America. What could have happened. All the other news

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Speaker 8: outlets could such a good point, all the other news

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Speaker 8: outlets could have said, and you're going to do this

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Speaker 8: to the AP, We're not going to show up for

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Speaker 8: the next week. And this isn't my idea. A senior

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Speaker 8: administration official from Trump's first term called me that week

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Speaker 8: and said to me, can I tell you Donald Trump's

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Speaker 8: favorite hour of the day. It's the hour that he's

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Speaker 8: speaking to the press. And there was one week the

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Speaker 8: press said we're not going to show up. He wouldn't

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Speaker 8: like it. And I get the fear that if your

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Speaker 8: seat is empty, then the White House is going to

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Speaker 8: fill it with someone else. The White House is going

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Speaker 8: to put another right wing influence in there. And they

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Speaker 8: might they're doing that, but Donald Trump doesn't just want

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Speaker 8: the influencer who's going to say, mister President, when did

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Speaker 8: you get great at being great? You look more handsome

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Speaker 8: today than you did yesterday. The president wants the back

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Speaker 8: and forth. The president wants the friction because the friction

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Speaker 8: is what gets the headlines, not the person saying when

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Speaker 8: did you get great at being great? But in the

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Speaker 8: world of survival and short termism that we all collectively

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Speaker 8: live in, it's hard and it's scary.

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Speaker 6: No, I think that's absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: And the reality is the White House Press Association had

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Speaker 1: a moment there where they could have done what they

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Speaker 1: exist for and that didn't happen.

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Speaker 8: And I don't listen. I don't begrudge them. This is

440
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 8: really hard. It's hard for people to cover this White House.

441
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 8: It's hard for people to work with this White House.

442
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 3: Right.

443
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 8: Yeah, And while the President does consider himself to be

444
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 8: pro business and pro growth, it's his way or the highway,

445
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 8: and that's not something we've experienced in a modern America.

446
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 1: So the markets seem to be not I mean, I

447
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,360
Speaker 1: don't know what they're doing today, but I would love

448
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,439
Speaker 1: you to explain sort of what you think the market,

449
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: the stock market, the bond market, if you're.

450
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,199
Speaker 8: Seeing any kind of check. I think, first of all,

451
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 8: when people keep seeing the market booming, saying, oh, the

452
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 8: market likes I mean first, Trump said this week if

453
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 8: we got out, if we got rid of the tariffs,

454
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 8: markets would fall apart. We'd be a third world country.

455
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 6: That's one.

456
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 8: Not the case. Not the case, it's twofold. It's when

457
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 8: we talk about the markets, we're not talking about all

458
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 8: the Fortune five hundred companies out there. We're not talking

459
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 8: about all the public traded companies. At this point, you

460
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 8: have seven giant mega companies that are really not affected

461
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 8: by tariffs, they're not affected by immigration, that are so

462
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 8: big and so valuable tech giants, and they're overweighted so

463
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 8: much in the markets that that's what people look at

464
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 8: right Like the power and the weight of Nvidia gets

465
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 8: all of our attention, and we're ignoring the fact that

466
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,959
Speaker 8: John Deere is laying off people. Nike is telling us

467
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 8: what the tariffs are going to cause us. Walmart is

468
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 8: warning what's happening to consumers or what's happening to prices.

469
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 8: So you have to think about the fact that we're

470
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 8: in this AI boom, that investors are flooding cash into

471
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 8: any company that has any association or connection to AI,

472
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 8: which is why there are folks out there that worry

473
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 8: that we could be approaching an AI bubble like we

474
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 8: did a dot com bubble. I'm not saying that we are,

475
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 8: but that theory is definitely out there. So you have

476
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 8: that when it comes to the markets and the other

477
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 8: side of the markets, they don't actually believe that Donald

478
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 8: Trump will follow through with doing anything truly draconian.

479
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 6: Right.

480
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 8: The tariffs that we actually have, though they're crippling, their painful,

481
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 8: they're not the fifty to sixty percent tariff that Donald

482
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 8: Trump was threatening on that first Liberation Day, and it

483
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 8: was I can't remember who came up with the term

484
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 8: taco Trump always checking it out with theft with the

485
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 8: barons someone. Investors across the board really believe that they

486
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 8: believe that Donald Trump's The only evidence we've seen of

487
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 8: a guardrail on him in his second term has been

488
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 8: market dropping. Has been the bond market knocking on his

489
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 8: door and Scott Bessett running in and saying, mister President,

490
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 8: I need to explain to you. When people lose faith

491
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 8: in the US dollar and they lose faith in the

492
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 8: fact that this isn't the safest, best place to invest,

493
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 8: and that cracks. That's deficit. That's when Donald Trump backs

494
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 8: off and says, oh, we're not gonna go with the tariffs,

495
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 8: so we're gonna So there's a belief that he talks

496
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 8: a big game and it's a huge headache, but at

497
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 8: the end he's not going to go through it. Which

498
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 8: is why if I talked to ce who run actual

499
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 8: companies with thousands and thousands of employees who have to

500
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 8: make things, navigating Donald Trump is significantly harder. Because business

501
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 8: planning is very hard under Donald Trump. But if I

502
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 8: talk to investors who can buy or sell an entire

503
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 8: portfolio within the span of ten minutes they had to

504
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 8: play with Donald Trump, they'd understand the volatility of the understanding,

505
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 8: and they can make an entire They can make a

506
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 8: huge amount of money. But if you are running a

507
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 8: company where you're planning, hiring, firing, building factories, expanding, investing

508
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 8: in other countries, it's damn near impossible to do that

509
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 8: under Donald Trump, especially as it relates to the tariffs,

510
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 8: because they're on today, they're off tomorrow, and three years

511
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 8: from now, when he's not president anymore, they're most likely

512
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 8: not on so were you really going to invest billions

513
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 8: of dollars in a long term project that might make

514
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 8: no sense just a few years from now exactly.

515
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: And also the bond market, I'd love you to just

516
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: talk about, like there still is some of dollar abandonment, right,

517
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: there's not your So that may not be showing up

518
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: in the markets yet in the data.

519
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 8: Could and things could turn, but but it could and

520
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 8: it could turn on a diame in a second. And

521
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 8: we'll just try to make it as basic as possible.

522
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 8: Right when we talk about the bottom market, we're talking

523
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 8: about US treasuries and investors from around the world. That's

524
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 8: where they park their money. Right, even when there's a

525
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 8: stock market disaster here, even when there's a subprime crisis here,

526
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 8: that US dollar remains the reserve currency in part because

527
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 8: we have an independent federal reserve, Right, don't believe me.

528
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 8: Look at countries like Turkey, look at Greece, Look at Argentina,

529
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 8: where you didn't have independent central banks, or where you

530
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 8: couldn't trust the government data, the economic data, because politicians

531
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 8: were getting involved and they face dire consequences. But because

532
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 8: for over one hundred years, we've had an independent federal

533
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 8: reserve people say this is this, you know, the cleanest

534
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 8: dirty shirt, you know, the safest place to put your money.

535
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 8: But if suddenly those things are in question, it'll make

536
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 8: it more difficult and less attractive to invest your dollars

537
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 8: here in the United States.

538
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: And that will mean it will be more expensive to

539
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: service our debt one hundred percent, right.

540
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 8: And and that's the thing that we have to remember

541
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 8: about debt and deficits.

542
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 1: Here.

543
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 8: We don't even pay down the debt, right. All we

544
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 8: do is service the interest. So compare that. Imagine if

545
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 8: you had huge, gigantic, crippling credit card debt, and every

546
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 8: month when you were paying your bill, you were never

547
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 8: even considering chipping away at the principle. All you are

548
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 8: ever doing is servicing the interest, which is what we

549
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 8: do as the United States government. And what blows my

550
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 8: mind is that maybe six months before Donald Trump won

551
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 8: this election, I watched Scott Bessant, who was you know,

552
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 8: sort of in the in the like. Maybe he was

553
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 8: an unofficial, maybe an official advice to the Trump campaign,

554
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 8: I don't remember, but he was closely tied to the

555
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 8: Trump campaign. I watched him speak at a conference and

556
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 8: he was visibly angry and shaken at Joe Biden and

557
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 8: the amount of government spending that went on during the

558
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 8: Biden administration. And he basically said, I want to be

559
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 8: part of this next administration. And he wasn't being boastful,

560
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 8: but you know, because he wanted to save America, felt

561
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 8: like he felt like the fiscal clip was coming, spending

562
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 8: was out of control, and doom was on the horizon.

563
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 8: Well I barely hear him ever speaking about this. Why

564
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 8: because debt and deficits are ballooning under Donald Trump.

565
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 6: What is the big beautiful.

566
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 8: Bill if not super costly to this country. So this

567
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 8: idea that like Doge, was going to come in and

568
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 8: cut billions and billions of dollars of government spending to

569
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 8: get us set right, Well, that didn't happen. And then

570
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 8: we were going to pass a budget it was going

571
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 8: to be far more fiscally responsible than anything Joe Biden

572
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 8: never did. Well, that didn't happen. So now we have

573
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 8: huge debt and deficit and we're potentially putting ourselves in

574
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 8: a position we're servicing that debt is only going to

575
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 8: get more expensive. No bueno. Across the board, we.

576
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: Touched on Lisa Cook for a minute and how she

577
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: might be the way that Trump world could try to

578
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: fire J Powell.

579
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 6: J Powell, but I want.

580
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: You to just she's pushing back. This will go to litigation.

581
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: What's your sort of vibe on this, Listen, none of

582
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: us know any.

583
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 8: Of the details yet of what Lisa Cook may or

584
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 8: may not have done. Right, they're saying that she committed

585
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 8: mortgage broad and saying that she had more than one

586
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 8: property that she said was her primary right.

587
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: There are members of Trump world who have also, there are.

588
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 8: But we shouldn't. There's a caveat there because Pro Pabloca

589
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 8: just reported last night that there's three members of the

590
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 8: Trump administration who did the same thing. It's not the

591
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 8: same thing in their case because just think about this

592
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 8: for a moment. It's tricky. If you are, let's say,

593
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 8: a new cabinet member, you might actually have a primary

594
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,239
Speaker 8: home in DC because that's where you're working, and in

595
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 8: your home district because that's where you're from. So it

596
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 8: is somewhat complicated. So these three examples that Republica has

597
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 8: given is different. It's complicated.

598
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 4: Now.

599
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 8: They claim that Ken Paxton, the Deputy Attorney General Attorney

600
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 8: General Tax General sexes. They believe he did the same

601
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 8: thing as Lisa Cook. If Lisa Cook even did it,

602
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 8: we do run. But this again is about power and control.

603
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 8: Donald Trump would like to remove Lisa Cook and put

604
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 8: a friendly fed governor in there. And if j. Powell

605
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 8: does not go through with firing her, then they will

606
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 8: say we can fire J. Powell for cause for not

607
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 8: doing his job. Where to me, this makes absolutely no sense.

608
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 8: Ja Powell is out of this job. Nine months from now,

609
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 8: Donald Trump will be done with him. It will royal

610
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 8: and rattle markets to do this. So what's the point.

611
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 8: There isn't one. This is to me about control.

612
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: Staff Roul. Fun to have you on my podcast.

613
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 8: Goodbye friend, Thank bye Sison.

614
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: Dan Weiner serves as director of the Brennan Center's Election

615
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: and Government program.

616
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 6: Welcome to Fast Politics, Dan, thanks so much for having me.

617
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: There's so much apping in Congress, but I want you

618
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: to talk to us about this idea that is a

619
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: passion project of mine.

620
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 6: So there is a ton going on in Congress. You're right,

621
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 6: but there is this sort of growing and actually, genuinely

622
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 6: I think bipartisan momentum to restrict members of Congress from

623
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 6: trading stocks. I want to pause for one second.

624
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: And interrupt you as I will, in a very annoying way.

625
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: It is so shocking that in a moment, which is

626
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: probably if we do end up having history, which we

627
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: may not, who knows, but like is one of the

628
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: moments in my lifetime that the American government has been

629
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: corrupt in a way that is flagrant and terrifying and

630
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: yet continue.

631
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 6: Well, here's the thing. Is that fascinating backdrop. It's a

632
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 6: fascinating backdrop. And what I think we have to understand

633
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 6: here is that not everything comes down. I'm going to

634
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 6: say it to Donald Trump, right, it's a tendency that

635
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 6: we all have to be like Trump Trump Trump. And

636
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 6: it's true. A lot of the most flagrant corruption we

637
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 6: can talk about that if you want, is coming from

638
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 6: the executive branch. There is also this little body called Congress.

639
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 6: You may have heard of them. They're not always doing much,

640
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 6: but more often or often they are supposed to be

641
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 6: the first branch of government.

642
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: Right.

643
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 6: They're the people the founders thought would be running the show.

644
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 6: Most of the time. They have their own corruption issues.

645
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 6: And one of the things we've seen actually is that

646
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 6: if Congress is going to be that first branch of government,

647
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 6: is actually going to be the body that also polices

648
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 6: the other branches. It's got to get its own house

649
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,239
Speaker 6: in order. And the issue that you know is on

650
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 6: the table today, right is stock trading, which, on the

651
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 6: one hand, is kind of not the that's front and

652
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 6: center in everyone's mind, but it's outrageous, right, outrageous. They

653
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 6: have access to non public information all the time. They

654
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 6: are supposedly, you know, running our economy, but they also

655
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 6: trade stocks. Many many members trade stocks. There's a lot

656
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 6: going on there, and we can talk about it, including

657
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 6: the fact, frankly they're not paid enough. So there's actually

658
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 6: a dimension of this that I'm sort of sympathetic to them.

659
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 6: But if you want the American people to have trust

660
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 6: in their government, you need to start with some basic

661
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 6: idea of public services, of public's trust, and stock trading

662
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 6: kind of flies in the face of that.

663
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: I would also add that you don't get to Donald

664
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: Trump without many steps along the way that weaken your

665
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: resolve against corruption.

666
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 6: So true, Look, we have a situation where Donald Trump's predecessor,

667
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 6: it is not at the same scale, also tolerated some

668
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 6: pretty outrageous behavior on the part of his own kid, right,

669
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 6: and particularly actually what we was vice president, So you

670
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 6: do have this process.

671
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: Where influence trading.

672
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 6: Influence trading, you had the Clinton years, I hate to

673
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 6: say it right where there was some So there's a

674
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 6: process by which.

675
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to just interrupt you from yet again, I

676
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: really believe that there is a straight line from There

677
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: was a moment after Nixon where it looked like we

678
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: were writing the ship and then go on.

679
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 6: Well, this is maybe a boring way to put it,

680
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 6: by I'm gonna try. So. One of the things is interesting,

681
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 6: So we had this moment after Nixon where we passed

682
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 6: all these rules. This is why if you're a federal employee,

683
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 6: your friend can't take you out for a cup of coffee.

684
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 6: It drives everyone nuts. But one of the things that

685
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 6: we kind of missed then is that actually at the

686
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 6: very top, it's all still sort of an honor system.

687
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 6: And that's from a combination of a lot of gaps

688
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 6: in the rules. But then also we like don't enforce

689
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 6: the rules for people at the very top. So it's

690
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 6: actually kind of crazy that for decades the people at

691
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 6: the very top kind of just pretended that there were

692
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 6: all these rules. Jimmy Carter his peanut farm, Ronald Reagan

693
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 6: like asked DOJ for permission to keep getting his pension

694
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,919
Speaker 6: from California. But sooner or later, human nature maybe being

695
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 6: what it is, that was going to start to break down.

696
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 6: Donald Trump was not the only president to have had scandals,

697
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 6: but he was something of a catalyst for this. Really

698
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 6: in his first term kept all his businesses. But now

699
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 6: we're seeing this massive escalation with the crypto businesses, the

700
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 6: luxury jet from Qatar, all of that. But yeah, I mean,

701
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,919
Speaker 6: we don't really have rules for folks at the very top.

702
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 6: We just have tradition, and that's a problem, right.

703
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: So influence trading. I think the sort of genesis of

704
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: this is a donor sleeps in the Lincoln bedroom. Well,

705
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: why are we not using the White House to do?

706
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like, I feel like it's

707
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,439
Speaker 1: a slippery slope that gets you to owning crypto companies

708
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 1: obviously not on the same order of scale. And we are,

709
00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: I think in a real crisis moment for American democrats

710
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: and also just for corruption with large in the government.

711
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 1: So I want you to talk about this stop trading

712
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: a little more, and that I want you to talk

713
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: about sort of what this looks like and how you

714
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: would do this.

715
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a great question. There are a lot of

716
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 6: proposals that have been put out, There are a lot

717
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 6: of folks working on it. I would say that the

718
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 6: biggest thing is that you have to actually restrict the

719
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 6: ability of seeing members of Congress to trade securities. Right now,

720
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 6: what we have is this kind of they're supposed to

721
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 6: disclose it, but they do happily later sometimes yeah, thirty

722
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 6: days later, and if they don't, they get a two

723
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 6: hundred dollars penalty, which you know, I know that's a

724
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 6: very serious consequence. So it's really a two piece. You

725
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 6: have to have a meaningful restriction and then it has

726
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 6: to be enforced, and there have to be penalties, and

727
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 6: there has to be someone who's going to enforce it.

728
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: It reminds me of the Congressional Ethics Committee. Will you

729
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 1: talk to us about that particularly?

730
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 7: Little Well, so there's both the House and Senate have

731
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 7: ethics committee, and then the House has a sort of

732
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 7: a body especially I think it's called the Office of

733
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 7: Congressional Conduct Now it used to be the Office of

734
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 7: Congressional Ethics.

735
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 6: You know, it's supposed to conduct investigations. It can't actually

736
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 6: force people to cooperate it with it. Really, it also

737
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 6: doesn't even really exist in any permanent way. It's just

738
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 6: a little body that's created by the rules of the House.

739
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 6: Means it can be abolished at any time, and it's

740
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 6: sort of a DC ritual that they flirt with just

741
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 6: getting rid of it at the beginning of every Congress,

742
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 6: and then they don't. Senate doesn't even have that. So

743
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 6: there's very very weak enforcement of the rules that do exist.

744
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: And isn't it true one of the committees had never

745
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: found anyone to be there's some like incredibly disturbing fact

746
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: about these committees.

747
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 6: It is incredibly rare that they do anything to people.

748
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 6: It is not a real body that people are scared of,

749
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 6: is the sense that everyone has gotten. And then actually

750
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 6: earlier there were there were sometimes allegations that also would

751
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 6: just sort of politicized investigations of relatively trivial things. So

752
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 6: the long history here of not being very effectual.

753
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 1: So sort of like a McCarthy kind of thing.

754
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 6: But not scary that way. So you know, like, yeah,

755
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 6: but similar idea, you need real robust, even handed enforcement.

756
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 6: That's actually a theme. You know, it's a lawyer theme,

757
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 6: but it's it's this idea that the rules on the

758
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 6: on paper just paper unless you have someone who's going

759
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 6: to make them real. And of course right now we're

760
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 6: thinking a lot about also that it can't just be

761
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 6: the McCarthy, you know, approach of attacking one side and

762
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 6: being weaponized. So it's it's it's that there's a it's

763
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 6: a complicated sort of calculus.

764
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 1: So there clearly is it's like one of the very

765
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: few things pulls it like eighty percent. So on the

766
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: left and the right, people don't want their government making

767
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: money off of them, except if their last name is Trump.

768
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: So what would that look like? And what are the bills?

769
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: How would you pass it?

770
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean there are actually a number of proposals

771
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 6: out there. There was just a bipartisan bill introduced this week.

772
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 6: There have been others as well. I think they all

773
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 6: kind of have a couple different elements. They all have

774
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 6: some sort of fairly strict prohibition. So it's either they're

775
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 6: banned from trading stocks while they're in office, and sometimes

776
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 6: even banned from holding stocks. Sometimes it says we use

777
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 6: what's called a blind trust, which is that you can

778
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 6: have someone else trade stocks for you, provided you don't

779
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 6: know what they're trading, right, and it's in a satting account.

780
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 6: So they all have this. And then the second component

781
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 6: is they all have some sort of penalty, right, and

782
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 6: it usually is a stiffer penalty than two hundred bucks

783
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 6: per violation. It might be that you have to you know,

784
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 6: discord is the legal term the asset plus ten percent,

785
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 6: so you have a penalty. And that is the other

786
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 6: really critical component. And then some proposals also beef up

787
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 6: the Office of Congressional Conduct right so that it can

788
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 6: actually issue subpoenas, it can actually act as an enforcer.

789
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 6: And there are different combinations there, but this is the

790
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 6: gist of all of these things is to get at

791
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 6: that and to have a real enforceable constraint on members.

792
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: How would this pass? Wasn't there a cutout in the

793
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: BBB for this? And then Donald Trump didn't want it?

794
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: And then it got Yeah, so talk us through that, because.

795
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 6: That was that is the great question. Because you look

796
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 6: at yourself, You're like, it's got eighty percent approval rating,

797
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 6: You've got all these Democrats and Republicans who say they

798
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 6: want to do it, and then it hasn't gotten done.

799
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 6: Here's the reality, right, is that I think and this

800
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 6: is true for anti corruption rules generally. Is there is

801
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 6: a dearth of political will sometimes because even the people

802
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 6: know this stuff is popular, they don't like it. Actually.

803
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 6: So what I actually think needs to happen, right is

804
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 6: there needs to be kind of overwhelming pressure. This is

805
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 6: just that you have to save them from themselves to

806
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 6: some extent, and that is going to I mean, that's

807
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 6: really something on both sides of the aisle. Right. The

808
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 6: Democrats have this huge challenge now, which is that they

809
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 6: know that corruption is a weakness. And the Brennan Center's

810
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 6: non partisan, but this I'm speaking just from the outside.

811
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 6: They know Donald Trump is very weak. People don't like

812
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 6: the corruption, but the catches. People don't really trust the Democrats,

813
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 6: and in fact, their corruption ratings are as bad as

814
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 6: his or worse in some polls. So they both sides

815
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 6: need to figure out how to actually get the public

816
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 6: to trust them beyond their core partisans. And the way

817
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 6: I think that this happens partly, it could be the

818
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 6: Democrats could be Republicans could be a bipartisan coalition.

819
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: R is anti corruption legislation.

820
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 6: And people realize they can't keep talking about this stuff

821
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 6: and not doing anything. They actually have to act and

822
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 6: that at a certain point the pressure becomes overwhelming. But

823
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 6: you know, the Democrats, there was a story in the

824
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 6: Post the Democrats are going to make this a big

825
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 6: theme of their midterm campaign. But there is a kind

826
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 6: of where's the beef moment? You actually have to be

827
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 6: ready to do these things.

828
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: Then, yeah, in the BBB they almost did pass it.

829
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: It was just the Trump wanted to cut out. And

830
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: then also they decided they just didn't need to write.

831
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: I mean like they were just like, if we're just

832
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 1: going to do unpopular legislation, why should we stop making money?

833
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 6: Right? I mean, and different people could debate whether they

834
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 6: really were almost going to do it, whether this was

835
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 6: a bit of a bit of a show. There are

836
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 6: certainly people in the Republican Caucus in the House and

837
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 6: the Senator who really want to do it, but there's

838
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 6: also some pretty open, transparent opposition. I think it was

839
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 6: one senator I might have been Rick Scott who said, well,

840
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 6: I like making money and so beautiful, and you probably

841
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 6: have people in the Democratics I'd sayd that too, right,

842
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 6: more quietly, more quietly. So this is it's a real

843
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 6: challenge not just with this but frankly with all sort

844
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 6: of anti corruption legislation.

845
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: One of the things that I would love you to

846
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: talk about for a minute is when we talk about

847
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: anti coruption and legislation, is that there were a number

848
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: of things that did not pass last Congress because of

849
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 1: Kristen Cinema and Joe Manchin, two people who have gone

850
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: on to do what exactly.

851
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 6: You know, I haven't kept up with their careers as

852
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 6: much as I should.

853
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 1: Okay, well, it's okay, I have. So she's working on AI,

854
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: she's working on mushrooms, she is, he is, you know,

855
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 1: gone back to I Just my point here is that

856
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,919
Speaker 1: they both sort of their lobby adjacent or maybe lobbyists,

857
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: and they were the reason that ROE is not codified,

858
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: that voting rights is not modified, that any number of things.

859
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk about anti lobbying, anti

860
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: corruption and that kind of thing.

861
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, look, what I would say about both

862
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 6: of them is that people who wanted to preserve the

863
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 6: way Washington was doing things. And I'm not going to

864
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 6: get into why their careers and their lives speak for themselves,

865
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 6: but it was a real problem. It also, I think,

866
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 6: and you know, I'm a huge believer in voting rights,

867
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,760
Speaker 6: but and in the Brennan Center is where I work.

868
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 6: But I think that critical anti corruption piece, for very

869
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 6: understandable reasons, got a little lost actually in the political debate,

870
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 6: so there was a sense of which a little bit

871
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 6: was left on the table. Anti corruption is very popular

872
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 6: in West Virginia, and Cinemon Mansion were differently situated. I mean,

873
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 6: Mansion was representing one of the most republican states in

874
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 6: the country, but that is actually very popular in West Virginia,

875
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 6: and the debate, while it was incredibly important for us

876
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 6: to be talking about voting rights, there is a sense

877
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 6: of which that anti corruption piece got lost a little bit,

878
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 6: and that made it easier, frankly, for the whole effort

879
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 6: to be just painted as something that was not going

880
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 6: to be of interest to Red state voters. I don't

881
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 6: agree with that. I think the voting rights is important

882
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 6: for everyone, but I think they were supposed to be combined,

883
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 6: and I think, you know, one of the lessons, you

884
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 6: really got to keep both of them in focus, because

885
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 6: anti corruption has tremendous appeal across the country.

886
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: Right exactly exactly when you think about sort of putting

887
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: these anti corruption legislation in place. Do you think democrats

888
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: should run? Like, what is your vision of this? Democrats

889
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: run on it? Or sort of what does it look like?

890
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:54,479
Speaker 6: It is such a great question. I think anyone who

891
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 6: wants to actually get beyond this sort of toxic fifty

892
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 6: percent plus one dude or one person needs to Yes,

893
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 6: run on those issues, but then actually make a commitment

894
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 6: to doing them and then do it like. Actually, I

895
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 6: think the most dangerous time in some ways isn't why

896
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 6: you're running. It's oh, you won power, you promise to

897
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 6: do this stuff. Are you going to do it? And

898
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 6: I think for the thing that I worry the most about,

899
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 6: So yes, I think it is a very very very

900
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 6: potent political message. But I think it can also be

901
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 6: one that is not without risk, because you really are

902
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 6: creating an expectation you'll do something. If you don't, the

903
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 6: public is going to remember. I look at the system

904
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 6: as a whole, and I look at how are we

905
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 6: going to actually put our democracy on some sort of

906
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 6: stable footing. I know that sounds crazy right now. No

907
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 6: people getting elected and then not doing the thing they

908
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 6: promised to do on this is what actually keeps me

909
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 6: up at night.

910
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: No, for sure, and I also think that there's such

911
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: hostility towards the federal government for any number of reasons.

912
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: It's like, you don't get to the kind of stuff

913
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 1: that's in Project twenty twenty five without a lot of anger.

914
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 6: At the federal government.

915
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: So true, you know, as we're watching them, you know,

916
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 1: huge swaths of the federal government have been fired.

917
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 6: I wonder if you.

918
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: Could talk about you know, a lot of those protections

919
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 1: are not there anymore, A lot of those people are

920
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: not you know, there are certain parts of.

921
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 6: The government that are gone.

922
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 4: Now.

923
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 6: Yeah. Part of the problem again is that these things

924
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 6: are all a mix of rules and written down laws,

925
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 6: but then traditions and you just don't do certain things.

926
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 6: Big theme is we have given the president's enormous amounts

927
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 6: of power, and now he's being embedded by a Supreme

928
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 6: Court that has an agenda to have a sort of

929
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 6: monarchical president. I don't look into their souls. I don't

930
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 6: know why this is important to them, but it is

931
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 6: a long term ideological project of the US Supreme Court.

932
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 6: The only way and it is a huge challenge. But

933
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 6: and here's where I really think is the hitch. We

934
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 6: got to make it so that people actually believe government

935
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 6: is a good thing. And you know, part of what

936
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 6: drives people like me to distraction about Doge is it's

937
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 6: not like there couldn't be a review of the federal

938
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 6: government in an effort to make it work better. But

939
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 6: you got to start from like government is important. So

940
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 6: I think that the way to do this right for

941
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 6: anyone is you've got to come to the people, acknowledging

942
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 6: legitimate cynicism, and then have a plan to make it better.

943
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 6: And this gets us back to stock trading. The reason

944
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 6: you start there is because you acknowledge that this isn't

945
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 6: just about your enemy, this is about you too, and

946
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 6: you know, figuratively, and that's how they've got to do it,

947
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:44,479
Speaker 6: which is actually why I think the stock trading piece

948
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 6: is a good place to start. Yeah, thank you, Dan,

949
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,439
Speaker 6: thank you for having me. This was so much fun.

950
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 4: A moment.

951
00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 2: Jesse Cannon, so Molly, wait for it. There's more election

952
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 2: fuckery down in Texas. The Republican Party of Texas is

953
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 2: suing the state saying open primaries violate its free speech.

954
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: Texas logic is what I heard it called.

955
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 1: All I can say is that they will cook up

956
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: any reason to not do those things that's good for democracy.

957
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 2: Well, I think this is even more that they are

958
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 2: trying to get more radical candidates and what they don't

959
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: want is Democrats and independence voting in the Republican primary

960
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 2: because they want the more fervent, fever swamp people voting more.

961
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, open primaries mean that you have more normal candidates,

962
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: just like rank choice voting in primaries is also good.

963
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 1: But you know, the Republican Party is kind of nutty,

964
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: and they use Texas as a place to do that nuttiness.

965
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 4: It really is the lab for really really bad policy.

966
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 6: Everything bad comes through Texas. That's it for.

967
00:49:54,600 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: This episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

968
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics

969
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: make sense.

970
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 6: Of all this chaos.

971
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a

972
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.