WEBVTT - CZM Rewind: Part Two: The Armed Nonviolent Civil Rights Movement

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<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast that it was in reruns during the holidays.

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<v Speaker 2>But I bet you'll still like this episode even though

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<v Speaker 2>I recorded a little while ago, because I think that

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<v Speaker 2>the way that people look back and think about the

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<v Speaker 2>old civil rights movement, like, wow, everything was so peaceful

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<v Speaker 2>all the time, Well it's not true. I mean, some

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<v Speaker 2>stuff was peaceful, and nonviolence is an important part of

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<v Speaker 2>political strategy, but it's certainly not the only thing that happened.

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<v Speaker 2>And so we're going to do a rerun about the

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<v Speaker 2>armed civil rights movement. I hope you enjoy it. Hello,

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<v Speaker 2>and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, the

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<v Speaker 2>podcast that is totally not advocating for people to do crime,

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<v Speaker 2>despite being a podcast almost exclusively about people who did crime.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm your host, Margaret Hildrey, and our guest this week

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<v Speaker 2>is the one and only Joel Monique. Well, how are

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<v Speaker 2>you doing on this day of the week that is

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<v Speaker 2>totally a different day of the week and not just

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<v Speaker 2>the same day that we recorded the previous.

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<v Speaker 3>It is not still great. I'm going to guess that

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<v Speaker 3>it's colder because it's a week later into December, and

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<v Speaker 3>I will say. I'm good, still bundled up in the

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<v Speaker 3>sweaters and under blankets. It's just making it through the

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<v Speaker 3>winter time.

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<v Speaker 2>Excellent, excellent. And our producer Sophia is out this week

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<v Speaker 2>because she's on a top secret undercover mission into a

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<v Speaker 2>land of evil. But our audio engineer Ian is now

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<v Speaker 2>our producer, Ian, how are you.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm doing good, Margaret. I'm just honored to be on Mike.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm just happy to be here. You know, it's you know,

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<v Speaker 4>sometimes people don't like to know how the sausage is made,

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<v Speaker 4>but here I am ruining the surprise. Yeay.

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<v Speaker 2>And our audio engineers of course, Ian. And our theme

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<v Speaker 2>music was done for the show by the wonderful musician Unwoman,

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<v Speaker 2>which sometimes people mishear me as saying a woman, but

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<v Speaker 2>no it is not. I mean, yes, it is a woman,

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<v Speaker 2>but her name is Unwoman, and you can find her

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<v Speaker 2>music wherever you listen to music. I don't know whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is part two of a two part series

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<v Speaker 2>on the armed civil rights movement of the nineteen sixty South,

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<v Speaker 2>and it probably won't make much sense if you don't

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<v Speaker 2>listen to part one. I would never tell you what

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<v Speaker 2>to do, dear listener, but you might want to consider

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<v Speaker 2>listening to part one before part two if you haven't

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<v Speaker 2>done that yet. Where we last left our heroes, they

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<v Speaker 2>were organizers, just desegregating places and registering voters. But just

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<v Speaker 2>as heroic were the armed black families that kept guard

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<v Speaker 2>over them as they slept and drove back clansmen with

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<v Speaker 2>rifles and shotguns and revolvers and apparently molotovs. And some

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<v Speaker 2>of these people are about to get organized, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>what we're gonna talk about today. You all excited, You're ready.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm thrilled. This is like a boom moment for me.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's hear about the start of organization.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the hard parts. The first organized group of black

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<v Speaker 2>defenders of the civil rights movement that I was able

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<v Speaker 2>to find was paradoxically under the name the NAACP. Amazing that, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, who

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<v Speaker 2>show up sometimes on this show, not just this episode,

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<v Speaker 2>but other shows. Because a ton of rad people have

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<v Speaker 2>done work with the NAACP over the years, but during

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<v Speaker 2>the Civil rights era they were not known as one

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<v Speaker 2>of the more radical organizations. They still did really not

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<v Speaker 2>trying to say anything negative about them here but like

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they're not known as like in the way

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<v Speaker 2>that Snick and Core were as like pushing the envelope, right,

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<v Speaker 2>But a chapter of them in Monroe, North Carolina went rogue. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>go on, yeah, go on, all right, So you can

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<v Speaker 2>trace this back to nineteen forty six. There was a

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<v Speaker 2>black vet named Benny Montgomery who came home from World

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<v Speaker 2>War Two. He had steel plate in his skull because

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<v Speaker 2>he got wounded while, you know, stopping the fucking Nazis.

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<v Speaker 2>His white employer back in North Carolina treated him like shit.

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<v Speaker 2>I presume was a racist based on everything else that

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<v Speaker 2>happened and this whole thing. They got into an argument

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<v Speaker 2>and Benny slid his boss's throat in the resulting fight.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't know, he stopped the Nazis and he

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<v Speaker 2>killed a racist white boss. I've got no problem with

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<v Speaker 2>Benny Montgomery so far.

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<v Speaker 3>Benny's really for me, sounds like a hero to me.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>The State of North Carolina did not find Benny to

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<v Speaker 2>be a hero for this particular action, and they executed him.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, it should have been the end of it.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was like God and the way it's sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>written about it presents it as if it's like this,

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<v Speaker 2>like great justice because he didn't get lynched like the

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<v Speaker 2>Klan tried to before he was executed. They tried to

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<v Speaker 2>drag him out of the jail. But it's like, but

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<v Speaker 2>justice prevailed and he wasn't lynched. He was instead just

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's lynch by the state instead whatever.

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<v Speaker 3>Like, yeah, okay, people, that is a wild thing that

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<v Speaker 3>continues to happen today. We can look at brittany crime,

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<v Speaker 3>You's case where people are like, well, she did a crime,

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<v Speaker 3>so now she has to go to jail. And I

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<v Speaker 3>just if you hear people in your surf, I imagine

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<v Speaker 3>if you listen to this podcast, you hopefully don't have

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<v Speaker 3>those thoughts, but if you, you know, are surrounded by

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<v Speaker 3>people who are like that, you know, maybe just remind

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<v Speaker 3>them we don't necessarily need prisons. Yeah, I mean, just

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<v Speaker 3>imagine a world where we don't have to lock up

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<v Speaker 3>people for petty fucking crimes like having very small amounts

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<v Speaker 3>of lead. It's ridiculous, Yeah, ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>Ugh, So so Benny, Yeah, hebe gets executed. This should

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<v Speaker 2>have been the end of it. But the clan, they're

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<v Speaker 2>salty that they they're also like this is grave injustice,

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<v Speaker 2>that the state is the one who killed him instead

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<v Speaker 2>of us.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh today, okay, so.

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<v Speaker 2>They try to lynch his dead body.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 2>They tell the funeral home director that if they don't

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<v Speaker 2>hand the body over to them, they'll kill him. This

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't spoiler, this doesn't happen, doesn't get their way. A

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of black Vets met up at a barber shop

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<v Speaker 2>and they were like, no, we can't let that happen.

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<v Speaker 2>So almost forty Vets with their service rifles stood guard

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<v Speaker 2>outside the funeral home. The Klan like drove by, ready

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<v Speaker 2>to like go be evil, and they took one look

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<v Speaker 2>at the service rifles, which included Benny's own rifle, which

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<v Speaker 2>I think is yeah, and the Klan just noped out

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<v Speaker 2>of there. They were like we're gone.

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<v Speaker 3>Goodbye, plan horrible people. Westboro back is ass bitches.

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<v Speaker 4>Like almost like every time they faced any kind of opposition,

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<v Speaker 4>they're like, oh wait, never mind, yeah they can fight back.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh sorry, yeah, suddenly uninterested, like I'm sure there's counterexamples,

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<v Speaker 3>but I haven't found them yet. I hope you never

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<v Speaker 3>find them.

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<v Speaker 2>I know you never locate I know. So the local

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<v Speaker 2>NAACP in Monroe had started out like a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>NAACP chapters. It's sort of a social club for middle

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<v Speaker 2>class black folks. But in the nineteen fifties, the Klan

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<v Speaker 2>started fucking with them in Monroe, and most of the

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<v Speaker 2>NAACP members left the organization because they're like, oh this

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<v Speaker 2>this is hard and scary. But a few of them remained,

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<v Speaker 2>and two of them remained were vets, and they immediately

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<v Speaker 2>started recruiting the working class to the NAACP. And they

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<v Speaker 2>did something that no other NAACP was doing. And this

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<v Speaker 2>one's kind of funny. They formed a chapter of the NRA. Officially,

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<v Speaker 2>they like wrote the NRA, and we were like, we

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<v Speaker 2>would like to form a chapter called the Monroe Rifle

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<v Speaker 2>Club or the Blackguards as they called themselves or get

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<v Speaker 2>called what. Okay, I is the only story I've found

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<v Speaker 2>so far at any of my research where the NRA

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<v Speaker 2>affiliated people did anything cool.

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<v Speaker 3>But wow, I want you to go back and look

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<v Speaker 3>at your history, because you're not out here defending black

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<v Speaker 3>people using stand their ground, you know, like the girls

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<v Speaker 3>who were being trafficked and then shoot their abusers. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, maybe get back into your old hat. Amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, totally. And I think there's like within the

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<v Speaker 2>sort of a political gun culture, there are people who

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<v Speaker 2>are like, oh, it's cool when people fight against depression.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, they're not clearly the dominant arc of the

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<v Speaker 2>NRA or gun culture in the United States. So you

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<v Speaker 2>now have the blackguards. In nineteen fifty seven in Monroe,

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<v Speaker 2>North Carolina, a kid drowned in the unsafe swimming holes

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<v Speaker 2>that the local black kids were forced to use because

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<v Speaker 2>the pool was segregated. So the vice president of the

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<v Speaker 2>NAACP was a guy named doctor Perry. He was one

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<v Speaker 2>of the kind of holdovers from when it was middle class,

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<v Speaker 2>but he was one of the ones he rules, and

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<v Speaker 2>he decides to stay just sit in at the white

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<v Speaker 2>only pool, and he organizes a bunch of kids who

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<v Speaker 2>go and like wait in their swim trunks and towels,

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<v Speaker 2>like waiting to be let into the pool. And of

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<v Speaker 2>course they're not let into the pool. And the fucking

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<v Speaker 2>bravery of those kids, it's like, it's hard to wrap

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<v Speaker 2>my head around how brave those kids are to go

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<v Speaker 2>stand there and they're swim trunks to tells this is

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<v Speaker 2>and this is three years before the sin in movement.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's uh, kids are I feel like kids are

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<v Speaker 3>aware but naive about end results, right, and so they

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<v Speaker 3>have this idea of like especially I think you know,

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<v Speaker 3>as a black kid for my generation, I can't speak

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<v Speaker 3>on this generation too much, but like, the idea of

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<v Speaker 3>these are your rights and you should be allowed allowed

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<v Speaker 3>access to them is a thing that we were taught

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<v Speaker 3>a lot, and so you know, we would do bold

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<v Speaker 3>ass things as an adult, you know, I may not do.

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<v Speaker 2>And so can you tell me any of those legally stories?

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<v Speaker 3>So can I tell you that story? I will say

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<v Speaker 3>in broad in broad strokes. Prop eight was happening, and

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<v Speaker 3>we were marching a lot. This is like my early

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<v Speaker 3>college years. You know. There may have been some verbal

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<v Speaker 3>harassments against some armed government officials as we were moving

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<v Speaker 3>through the streets that you know today I would not

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<v Speaker 3>definitely not do. But we were angry, and we were young,

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<v Speaker 3>and we were absolutely willing to tell people about themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>And what they should do with grant.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not as brave as these kids because we were surrounded.

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<v Speaker 3>There are thousands of us in the street. I think

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<v Speaker 3>it's incredibly brave to be in the fifties standing outside

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<v Speaker 3>of pool. Yeah, you know, without it sounds like any

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<v Speaker 3>weapons or and there's some trump'son towels. It's an amazing,

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<v Speaker 3>an amazing decision they made.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I don't have any record of anything bad

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<v Speaker 2>happening to them as a result of it. And so

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<v Speaker 2>the Klan they fucking hate doctor Perry. They already didn't

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<v Speaker 2>like him, vice president of WACP. He's black and middle

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<v Speaker 2>class and educated. He's throwing down with the working class.

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<v Speaker 2>He wasn't scared of them. And also he was Catholic,

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<v Speaker 2>and the Klan has this whole fucking thing against the Catholics.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow, that is a full plate of things that the

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<v Speaker 3>KKK is not about.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, not at all. So they the Klan got

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<v Speaker 2>together their show of force on October fifth, nineteen fifty seven.

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<v Speaker 2>They had a big old rally with a big old

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<v Speaker 2>cross burning, and then they drove an armed motorcade a

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<v Speaker 2>doctor Perry's house. They were gonna stop doctor Perry once

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<v Speaker 2>and for all. But doctor Perry and the Blackguards they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't scare, and they knew the Klan was coming, and

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<v Speaker 2>they were they were vents.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh shit, they've seen combat before, Okay.

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<v Speaker 4>So they.

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<v Speaker 2>Instead of a scared middle class doctor hiding in this house,

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<v Speaker 2>they found sandbag fortifications with automatic weapons.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh hell yeah, like in describe that they were about

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<v Speaker 4>that action, like they were, Yeah, they wanted all the smoke.

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<v Speaker 4>I love it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So the clan shows up and they start shooting. The

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<v Speaker 2>clan starts shooting at the sand bag fortifications because they're

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<v Speaker 2>not known for their intelligence. The Blackguard fire back, and

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<v Speaker 2>they intentionally fire into the ground because they they it

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<v Speaker 2>was a defensive gesture, right, and it was meant to

0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.520
<v Speaker 2>scare the clan off, and it worked. The Klan stopped

0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:41.680
<v Speaker 2>their raids, not just on Doctor Perry, but just in

0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.520
<v Speaker 2>the area. Just the Clan's just done.

0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:45.199
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:49.160
<v Speaker 2>The next day, the city council bans clan motorcades because

0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.880
<v Speaker 2>they're like, oh, this is we can't have this, this

0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:52.520
<v Speaker 2>will go bad.

0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:54.120
<v Speaker 3>I love this news.

0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.840
<v Speaker 4>This is wonderful. That's one thing about the clan. They're

0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:02.120
<v Speaker 4>consistent there, you know, And I love it.

0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.640
<v Speaker 2>I know, because I mean, what is racism but this

0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.360
<v Speaker 2>ideology of fear, it's this true. I want to be

0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.719
<v Speaker 2>in charge all the time of everyone, and everyone wants

0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:12.600
<v Speaker 2>to do what I say, and I'm afraid that that

0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:13.280
<v Speaker 2>will change.

0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:17.199
<v Speaker 4>It's like a perceived threat to your power, your established

0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.319
<v Speaker 4>you know, societal standing, and that scares the shit out

0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:20.880
<v Speaker 4>of people.

0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 3>It's also its weird irrational. I want to stress that word, irrational,

0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.360
<v Speaker 3>fear that if there's equity, black people will try to

0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:31.679
<v Speaker 3>turn the tables and enslave white people, which is a

0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.720
<v Speaker 3>thing we hear them talk about all the damn time.

0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.720
<v Speaker 3>It's just like, I just want y'all to know, slavery

0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.920
<v Speaker 3>sounds hard like for both people. It's not exhausting. I'm

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:44.600
<v Speaker 3>not trying to force people to stay or brutalize their

0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.959
<v Speaker 3>body like nobody wants this except you, or trying to

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:56.720
<v Speaker 3>make sure we don't backslide, okay yet be black and

0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:57.440
<v Speaker 3>left alone.

0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:03.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it seems, you know, it's very obvious growing up,

0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:07.439
<v Speaker 2>I mean, having decent politics like this seems very obvious

0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.640
<v Speaker 2>to me. You know, I really struggle to imagine the

0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.600
<v Speaker 2>mindset of these like nineteen fifties white racists and like,

0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.920
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, they fucking you're talking. It's exactly that they're

0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:22.560
<v Speaker 2>afraid of fucking turning the tables, like whatever, fucking cowards.

0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.720
<v Speaker 2>So the local leader of the Monroe ANDAACP was a

0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.240
<v Speaker 2>man named Robert Williams. He later wrote a book called

0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.560
<v Speaker 2>Negroes with Guns and as influential on the Black Panthers,

0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.000
<v Speaker 2>and he wrote in nineteen fifty nine, I wish to

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.400
<v Speaker 2>make it clear that I do not advocate violence for

0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.120
<v Speaker 2>its own sake or for the sake of reprisals against whites.

0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Nor am I against the passive resistance advocated by Reverend

0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Martin Luther King and others. My only difference with doctor

0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.240
<v Speaker 2>King is that I believe in flexibility in the freedom struggle.

0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Robert had a rough couple of years as a result

0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.720
<v Speaker 2>of his advocacy for armed defense, as like one of

0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.080
<v Speaker 2>the first prominent black p people, being like, we actually

0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:06.040
<v Speaker 2>are completely fine with using violence as necessary to defend ourselves.

0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:11.080
<v Speaker 2>The NAACCP disavowed him, like canceled the Monroe chapter over

0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.920
<v Speaker 2>the issue of violence. And then he was framed almost

0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 2>certainly by the Feds. It's like not proven, but we've

0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:19.600
<v Speaker 2>all fucking read about co intel pro and shit. He

0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.160
<v Speaker 2>was framed for kidnapping a white couple and he had

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:23.720
<v Speaker 2>to flee the country. Him and his wife had to

0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:27.040
<v Speaker 2>flee the country for about a decade. Later, he was

0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.400
<v Speaker 2>found innocent at trial and the white couple had been pressured,

0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.640
<v Speaker 2>presumably by the FEDS, to lie and claim that he

0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:36.840
<v Speaker 2>had kidnapped them. So that's the first organized black armed

0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.800
<v Speaker 2>civil rights defense organization I know about. Wasn't the last,

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.680
<v Speaker 2>wasn't the largest, but it was the first that I found.

0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:44.520
<v Speaker 2>And they're cool. But I'm gonna tell you about another one,

0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 2>and this one doesn't have a name. This one is

0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:53.160
<v Speaker 2>in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. The Klan was running rampant until a

0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.920
<v Speaker 2>group of about one hundred or so local folks organized

0:15:55.960 --> 0:16:00.640
<v Speaker 2>a nameless, militarily structured, semi secret society of Armed Community Defenders.

0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.840
<v Speaker 3>Okay, can we just pause right there. Here's what I

0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:05.880
<v Speaker 3>love about everything you just said. They said, don't give

0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:07.560
<v Speaker 3>it a fucking name. Don't let them be able to

0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.080
<v Speaker 3>search us. They can't find us if they don't know

0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.160
<v Speaker 3>who we are. Keep it secret, don't talk about it

0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.600
<v Speaker 3>in public. It was definitely fight club rules. I feel

0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:20.560
<v Speaker 3>I'm inferring. I really appreciate this approach to it. That's amazing.

0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.480
<v Speaker 2>No, yeah, you're you're you're really onto what they were

0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:27.600
<v Speaker 2>onto like they and they came from all walks of life.

0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:31.480
<v Speaker 2>They were factory workers to businessmen to gang members, which

0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.600
<v Speaker 2>is not the first time. There's two times I talk

0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.880
<v Speaker 2>about in the last episodes that I did about people

0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.160
<v Speaker 2>fighting the clan, about gang members versus the clan. All

0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.960
<v Speaker 2>of them had combat experience, all of them were picked

0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 2>for being trustworthy and of good character. There's like this

0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.560
<v Speaker 2>like intense background check to join this secret society. I'm

0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:49.880
<v Speaker 2>not going to be like these are the rules that

0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:51.440
<v Speaker 2>other people should use. But you had to be married,

0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:53.640
<v Speaker 2>you couldn't be a drunk, and you had to have

0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:59.280
<v Speaker 2>a reputation for keeping your fucking mouth shut. And I

0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.640
<v Speaker 2>think I think this one was all men. We'll talk

0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.040
<v Speaker 2>about later about when this was and wasn't. And the

0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.000
<v Speaker 2>certainly the decentralized groups included a large number of women,

0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.480
<v Speaker 2>as like you know, a lot of the examples are

0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.520
<v Speaker 2>like the seven year old woman in the shotgun or whatever. Right,

0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:17.200
<v Speaker 2>But this nameless organization they avoided all press and publicity.

0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.760
<v Speaker 2>And what they did is they set up armed guards

0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.480
<v Speaker 2>a side of activist residents. Like basically if someone would

0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.960
<v Speaker 2>like slow down, they didn't recognize them, they'd be like

0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:29.400
<v Speaker 2>keep fucking driving, okay. Or sometimes they as people would

0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:31.880
<v Speaker 2>drive up to places, they would set up a checkpoint

0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:33.960
<v Speaker 2>and stop them. And if the people couldn't prove why

0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.240
<v Speaker 2>they were there. This is sometimes shoot at the car

0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:38.120
<v Speaker 2>or whatever. Yeah, like.

0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:41.640
<v Speaker 4>And uh.

0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.639
<v Speaker 2>And they would also act as bodyguards to the like

0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.320
<v Speaker 2>non violent. Once again, this is tied into the non

0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.359
<v Speaker 2>violence movement. So one white activist talked about how she

0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.440
<v Speaker 2>didn't even know she was being protected until later. People

0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.280
<v Speaker 2>just followed her at a distance, concealed carrying, ready to

0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:00.480
<v Speaker 2>fight if need be, because people were getting fucking killed

0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.720
<v Speaker 2>for this work. You know, before the Defenders, the Klan

0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.240
<v Speaker 2>had run patrols outside of the activist meetings. They would

0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.000
<v Speaker 2>just like drive by and keep track of who's there

0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.359
<v Speaker 2>or whatever. They got faced down one time and they

0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:15.880
<v Speaker 2>never returned. On July eighth, nineteen sixty four, a few

0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.880
<v Speaker 2>black teenagers went to a movie theater to test desegregation,

0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 2>and over two hundred white racists were there to attack

0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 2>these few black teenagers. So these secret Defenders showed up

0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.160
<v Speaker 2>with two cars full of armed men, picked the teenagers

0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.560
<v Speaker 2>up and drove them away from the mob. But the

0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.440
<v Speaker 2>klans men were waiting at the entrance to the black

0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.800
<v Speaker 2>neighborhood where they knew that these people would be going right,

0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.439
<v Speaker 2>and they opened fire on the cars. The combat, vets

0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:45.000
<v Speaker 2>opened fire right the fuck back. The klan went running

0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.199
<v Speaker 2>and the klan kept its head down after that.

0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.960
<v Speaker 3>You know what's interesting, okay m hm. So if we

0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:58.240
<v Speaker 3>look at police shooting records, they're all over the map.

0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:04.280
<v Speaker 3>And if they're shooting against like a lot of gangsters

0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:08.400
<v Speaker 3>of all ilk like don't have they're terrible shooters because

0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.400
<v Speaker 3>you're not doing it frequently. But police, you know, they

0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.920
<v Speaker 3>have to do target practice or whatever, and then they're police,

0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.359
<v Speaker 3>so they're used to drawing their guns or whatever. But

0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:20.040
<v Speaker 3>going up against military people is an entirely different, game

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.639
<v Speaker 3>changing scenario. Like you are not prepared for battle the

0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:25.960
<v Speaker 3>way that they are. And I love the idea.

0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:26.720
<v Speaker 1>Man.

0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.720
<v Speaker 3>This I think is something that we're starting to talk

0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.520
<v Speaker 3>about and see more in our popular culture. But the

0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.399
<v Speaker 3>return of World War two vets is a huge impact

0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.879
<v Speaker 3>in the civil rights movement strictly because like, when you

0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.119
<v Speaker 3>understand what it is to be liberated, you actually have

0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:47.080
<v Speaker 3>helped liberate cities, you're treated with respect, and then you

0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.160
<v Speaker 3>come home and you're expected to, you know, for lack

0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:51.800
<v Speaker 3>of a better word, go back to being a nigga.

0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:55.280
<v Speaker 3>Like it's really I think empowering to then say you

0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.520
<v Speaker 3>know what, No, we have all of the tools and

0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:01.000
<v Speaker 3>skills because white America didn't want to go fight this war.

0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.080
<v Speaker 3>Like that is bananas, Like you made the problem worse.

0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.960
<v Speaker 3>You made the problems by not going to fight it yourself.

0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.480
<v Speaker 3>I love this story. This is beautiful.

0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, totally, And like it's not a coincidence to me.

0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:15.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean, like obviously, like most of the wars the

0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:20.120
<v Speaker 2>US has gotten involved in have not been good, right,

0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.240
<v Speaker 2>and like I know there's like a critique to be

0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:25.000
<v Speaker 2>made of the good war whatever, but like overall, it

0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.000
<v Speaker 2>is good that people went and stop the fucking Nazis

0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:28.600
<v Speaker 2>right where to end.

0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:31.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they had a good time to a stop.

0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.000
<v Speaker 2>The current US wars are not ones that I would

0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.159
<v Speaker 2>be like, oh, that's cool, right, But it's still not

0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.200
<v Speaker 2>a coincidence that some of the people one of the

0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.400
<v Speaker 2>people who stopped the Colorado maybe two of the people

0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.000
<v Speaker 2>who stopped the Colorado spring shooters were vets.

0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:45.720
<v Speaker 3>Both of them were vets.

0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:49.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and complicated feelings about all of it, but but

0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:55.560
<v Speaker 2>learning how to engage in bad situations is a skill

0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:57.440
<v Speaker 2>that is useful within our communities.

0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:00.720
<v Speaker 3>And we've seen a lot of vets. Because I'm vocal

0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:04.879
<v Speaker 3>about over policing and the fact that the police have

0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:09.280
<v Speaker 3>been describe themselves as being in combat zones when they're like,

0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:11.919
<v Speaker 3>you are not, and if you were, this is not

0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:13.760
<v Speaker 3>how you'd be allowed to behave if you were part

0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.119
<v Speaker 3>of the military. Get the hell out, And I hopefully

0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:21.080
<v Speaker 3>continue to see arise in that because it should be different.

0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.119
<v Speaker 3>And you know, I don't like people playing military like

0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.280
<v Speaker 3>you either are or you aren't. But to be out

0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:30.240
<v Speaker 3>here in Regalia talking about how you're in an armed

0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.320
<v Speaker 3>force when you've never served a day in your life

0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:33.040
<v Speaker 3>is pathetic.

0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:35.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally, you're in an armed And then also just

0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:38.879
<v Speaker 2>like talking about that being like, so you're in a

0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:43.080
<v Speaker 2>war against the American people, great, awesome, cool, if you're

0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.199
<v Speaker 2>in a war against the American people, well, I'm one

0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:46.800
<v Speaker 2>of the American you know, like I guess I'm a

0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:51.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't even want to say that out loud, but yeah, yeah,

0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:54.600
<v Speaker 2>well this actually next one will tie into policing in

0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.680
<v Speaker 2>a little bit interesting way. The group from this era

0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:01.040
<v Speaker 2>that actually, wait, maybe time to tell you instead of

0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.159
<v Speaker 2>about this group from this era, maybe it's time to

0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:09.000
<v Speaker 2>tell you about capitalism and how you can engage in

0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:13.119
<v Speaker 2>it and all of us who are on this podcast

0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:17.080
<v Speaker 2>like routinely eating food. I'm just going down a limp

0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:19.800
<v Speaker 2>speak for you. But I like eating food every day,

0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 2>delicious addicted to food, and I like eating it. And

0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:27.320
<v Speaker 2>I use money for most of my food. My gardene

0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:28.560
<v Speaker 2>skills are not quite there yet.

0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:30.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they haven't made it free yet.

0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I will say here's the secret, though, I get

0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:38.359
<v Speaker 2>paid whether or not you buy the things from the margaret.

0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:47.640
<v Speaker 2>They're not supposed to know. Yeah, buy it or dout?

0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:49.720
<v Speaker 1>All right?

0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:58.199
<v Speaker 2>Ads back from ads, Welcome back from ads. Those are

0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:01.240
<v Speaker 2>some good services. It's usually pot When I listened to

0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Coole Zone shows, I mostly hear ads for other podcasts,

0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:07.040
<v Speaker 2>which is actually fine by me. I like podcasts. It's

0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:13.359
<v Speaker 2>a recentably big podcast. Yeah, big fan. So we have

0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:16.240
<v Speaker 2>the Unnamed Defenders, and now we're going to talk about

0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:18.520
<v Speaker 2>the group from this era that did all this most

0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:21.040
<v Speaker 2>famously integrated effect. We're going to talk about the Deacons

0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:25.360
<v Speaker 2>for Defense and Justice. And it's funny too because I'm like, oh,

0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:26.960
<v Speaker 2>the most famous group about this, Like, I didn't know

0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.240
<v Speaker 2>about this group until very recently because I just didn't

0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:33.880
<v Speaker 2>hear much about the armed component of the nonviolent struggle

0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:37.440
<v Speaker 2>because when I was in school, they just taught me

0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:42.880
<v Speaker 2>about pacifism. And then when I was like getting into

0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:46.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, political radicalism or whatever, I would just mostly

0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:49.760
<v Speaker 2>hear about the Black Power era and the Black Panthers

0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.040
<v Speaker 2>and the stuff that comes later. But so this sort

0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:55.919
<v Speaker 2>of I didn't hear about the Deacons for Defense and Justice.

0:23:56.760 --> 0:24:00.280
<v Speaker 3>Nobody talks about the organizers. It's not glamorous, it's not

0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:04.240
<v Speaker 3>scary or dangerous or cool. It's just work. But it's

0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:09.600
<v Speaker 3>in this sorry, but it's essential work. It's absolutely necessary

0:24:09.680 --> 0:24:11.800
<v Speaker 3>work for any of the other things to happen.

0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:15.280
<v Speaker 2>No, totally, totally, Well, this one is going to get

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.240
<v Speaker 2>a little scary, but it's going to work out for

0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:19.600
<v Speaker 2>most of the people in the story.

0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:20.320
<v Speaker 4>Yay.

0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:27.040
<v Speaker 2>Jonesborough, Louisiana is a tiny fucking town. About four thousand

0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:30.159
<v Speaker 2>people live there in nineteen sixty, not the size of

0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:33.800
<v Speaker 2>town that most people think about very often. The soil

0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:37.040
<v Speaker 2>there was shitty, which meant that there were no plantations there,

0:24:37.720 --> 0:24:40.000
<v Speaker 2>but it was hella segregated and poor. It had a

0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:43.840
<v Speaker 2>huge clan presence, and most people, white or black, worked

0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:47.040
<v Speaker 2>for the paper mill or the chemical factory. There'd been

0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:50.760
<v Speaker 2>an NAACP chapter there in the forties, but Louisiana passed

0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:55.720
<v Speaker 2>a law forcing NAACP chapters i think specifically, to disclose

0:24:55.760 --> 0:25:00.159
<v Speaker 2>their memberships because they're racist. And so they changed their

0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:03.040
<v Speaker 2>name from the NAACP to the Jackson Parish Progressive Voters

0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:05.879
<v Speaker 2>League in order to not have to give all of

0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:06.520
<v Speaker 2>their names to.

0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:09.120
<v Speaker 3>The fuck Sometimes we got to play these games, okay, yeah,

0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:10.840
<v Speaker 3>you and coming here being racist, I just got to

0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:14.760
<v Speaker 3>outsmart you protect by people that is nuts to be, like, hey,

0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:16.480
<v Speaker 3>can we get a hit list please?

0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:21.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Oh god, yeah, we changed our name. No more NAACP.

0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:25.399
<v Speaker 2>This other thing doesn't even mention race. It's just so

0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:27.440
<v Speaker 2>happens that everyone who cares about progress in this town.

0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:30.879
<v Speaker 3>It's fuck the church claim accepts everybody. So perfect.

0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So in nineteen sixty four, the Voting Rights Act

0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:39.320
<v Speaker 2>had passed, making all voter registration and all that shit illegal.

0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:41.639
<v Speaker 2>But of course nothing changed on the ground in and

0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:43.560
<v Speaker 2>of itself. And so that's what you know, SNICK and

0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:45.919
<v Speaker 2>Core and all these other groups were doing was in

0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:48.159
<v Speaker 2>some ways okay. So it's like a major part of

0:25:48.240 --> 0:25:50.280
<v Speaker 2>US history, especially when it comes to race relations, is

0:25:50.320 --> 0:25:54.200
<v Speaker 2>the federal government finally fucking passing some basic human decency laws,

0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:57.960
<v Speaker 2>but then not actually enforcing them or being capable of

0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:00.919
<v Speaker 2>enforcing them, depending on the time and whether or not

0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:04.520
<v Speaker 2>they care different places, so people actually have to go

0:26:04.600 --> 0:26:07.520
<v Speaker 2>out and do it right against their own local governments

0:26:07.520 --> 0:26:09.359
<v Speaker 2>and their sheriffs and their shit and all that shit.

0:26:10.320 --> 0:26:13.520
<v Speaker 2>Nineteen sixty four jones Burg, Louisiana, almost at Alabama, but

0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:17.239
<v Speaker 2>jones Burg, Louisiana, the Klan is running around being fucked up.

0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:21.399
<v Speaker 2>They burned like four or five black churches, They burned

0:26:21.400 --> 0:26:24.160
<v Speaker 2>down a Masonic hall, they burned down a Baptist center,

0:26:25.400 --> 0:26:28.280
<v Speaker 2>and black and white core organizers came to town to work

0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:31.399
<v Speaker 2>on voter registration, and they had been invited by the

0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:33.960
<v Speaker 2>local Black Baptist church, and they were housed in a

0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:37.320
<v Speaker 2>house that got called Freedom House that the local community

0:26:37.359 --> 0:26:39.920
<v Speaker 2>fixed up for them, which is like cool and also

0:26:39.960 --> 0:26:42.640
<v Speaker 2>has disadvantages. Most of the time organizers would come in

0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:45.720
<v Speaker 2>and stay with a family, which gives a certain amount

0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:48.720
<v Speaker 2>of protection, but instead the community was able to be like, oh,

0:26:48.720 --> 0:26:50.800
<v Speaker 2>we have this dilapidated house, will fix up for you

0:26:50.880 --> 0:26:55.240
<v Speaker 2>and you can all live there. But unfortunately target yeah,

0:26:55.400 --> 0:26:59.320
<v Speaker 2>full of non violent people and non violent people are

0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:01.919
<v Speaker 2>alone little bit at risk because they're known to not

0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:07.640
<v Speaker 2>be carrying firearms. So as soon as CORR starts coming

0:27:07.680 --> 0:27:11.160
<v Speaker 2>to town, students in the area start fighting against segregation,

0:27:11.600 --> 0:27:14.160
<v Speaker 2>specifically black students. I don't think the white kids were

0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:17.480
<v Speaker 2>super woke. The Klan, of course, was like, what's that

0:27:17.640 --> 0:27:19.880
<v Speaker 2>black people voting and having a say and how their

0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:22.159
<v Speaker 2>lives are ran There's some of them are swimming in

0:27:22.200 --> 0:27:24.639
<v Speaker 2>public or reading in the library. We can't have that

0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:26.640
<v Speaker 2>because that's how they all talk.

0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:29.720
<v Speaker 3>Totally, No, that was a spot on.

0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, creation, thank you. I'm definitely not getting any acting

0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:37.680
<v Speaker 2>jobs out of this podcast. But and so they started

0:27:37.720 --> 0:27:40.080
<v Speaker 2>doing more clan shit, and they started harassing the house

0:27:40.240 --> 0:27:43.440
<v Speaker 2>and any picket lines that people were forming. And they

0:27:44.040 --> 0:27:46.040
<v Speaker 2>first they were like drive by yelling shit at the house,

0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:47.560
<v Speaker 2>and then they would drive by shooting guns in the

0:27:47.600 --> 0:27:48.880
<v Speaker 2>air at the house, and then they would just drive

0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:52.080
<v Speaker 2>by shooting the house. Right, And since core was nonviolent,

0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:56.320
<v Speaker 2>they weren't armed, but a few locals were, including a

0:27:56.359 --> 0:28:01.560
<v Speaker 2>guy known to history with the awesome name Chili Willie Hell. Yes,

0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:05.560
<v Speaker 2>Ernest Chili Willy Thomas. I'm actually sort of annoyed most

0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:09.399
<v Speaker 2>history books like his name is clearly Chili Willi. That's

0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:11.359
<v Speaker 2>why it's in quotes. It's the name he actually wanted

0:28:11.400 --> 0:28:14.359
<v Speaker 2>to go by. But most people, most of the history books,

0:28:14.440 --> 0:28:17.600
<v Speaker 2>like avoid specifically calling them that. They just call him

0:28:17.640 --> 0:28:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Ernest over or whatever.

0:28:18.520 --> 0:28:22.680
<v Speaker 3>Again, listen, if somebody has a joke nickname and it's

0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:27.600
<v Speaker 3>referred to, that gives you so much character, like depiction

0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:30.720
<v Speaker 3>and inspiration, Like you understand, like a you don't fuck

0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:35.560
<v Speaker 3>with someone named Chili Willy. Okay, that's under all circumstances,

0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:38.000
<v Speaker 3>you do not want to pick a fight, Okay.

0:28:38.800 --> 0:28:40.760
<v Speaker 4>But it's also it's like that's what he wanted to

0:28:40.800 --> 0:28:42.400
<v Speaker 4>be called. Just call him.

0:28:42.760 --> 0:28:46.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, totally.

0:28:46.520 --> 0:28:48.320
<v Speaker 2>So Chili Willy and a few of his friends start

0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:50.680
<v Speaker 2>hanging out at Freedom House. They're just start sitting on

0:28:50.720 --> 0:28:54.640
<v Speaker 2>the porch or shadowing the activists as they move through town. Basically,

0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 2>the deal was like, y'all could be non violent, that's great.

0:28:57.800 --> 0:29:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Us we're not nonviolent. Well defend you, to quote a

0:29:02.600 --> 0:29:07.240
<v Speaker 2>core organizer Fred Brooks, if we had a picket line.

0:29:07.320 --> 0:29:09.520
<v Speaker 2>These guys were standing on the corner on both sides

0:29:09.520 --> 0:29:12.600
<v Speaker 2>of the street. Wherever we went. It was like a caravan.

0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:15.000
<v Speaker 2>These guys in the pickup trucks with these high powered

0:29:15.080 --> 0:29:18.080
<v Speaker 2>rifles up in the back. White people didn't mess with us.

0:29:18.520 --> 0:29:20.440
<v Speaker 2>The defenders would come by at night and want to

0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:23.360
<v Speaker 2>know what the next day's agenda was. Different ones of

0:29:23.360 --> 0:29:27.120
<v Speaker 2>them took different patrols. We told them. They told us

0:29:27.160 --> 0:29:29.680
<v Speaker 2>we were not to leave the black community without security.

0:29:30.880 --> 0:29:33.880
<v Speaker 2>And to quote another organizer about the impact of the experience,

0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 2>he's like writing back to the rest of cors, the

0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:38.920
<v Speaker 2>concept that we are going to go south and through

0:29:38.960 --> 0:29:41.320
<v Speaker 2>love and patience change the hearts and minds of southern

0:29:41.320 --> 0:29:46.880
<v Speaker 2>whites should be totally disregarded. So some new defenders. So

0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:48.960
<v Speaker 2>you have these defenders, right, they don't have a name.

0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:52.400
<v Speaker 2>Yet another group of folks want to do it legit

0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:54.960
<v Speaker 2>as best as they could. So they go to the

0:29:55.000 --> 0:29:58.320
<v Speaker 2>local as the local high school football coach. His name

0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:02.160
<v Speaker 2>is Frederick Douglas kirkpatri and he goes to the police

0:30:02.240 --> 0:30:04.920
<v Speaker 2>chief and he's like, let me set up an all

0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:07.880
<v Speaker 2>volunteer black auxiliary to the police to protect the black

0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:12.320
<v Speaker 2>community and core and the police chief went for it.

0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:15.440
<v Speaker 2>The black auxillary got no I know you see yeah.

0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:17.640
<v Speaker 3>You're like, my mind is melting white.

0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:21.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh it, it's gonna get messy, it's gonna get interesting.

0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:22.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:25.440
<v Speaker 2>No, So that the black auxiliary is given an old

0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:28.680
<v Speaker 2>cop car and handcuffs. You'll be shocked to know the

0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:31.640
<v Speaker 2>close relations between the police and the black community didn't last.

0:30:32.440 --> 0:30:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Chili Willy and the original Defenders, for their part, they

0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:38.200
<v Speaker 2>are not fucking stoked about this, right. They do not

0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:40.520
<v Speaker 2>trust the black cops. They figure these black cops are

0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:42.280
<v Speaker 2>going to do the dirty work for the white cops.

0:30:42.400 --> 0:30:43.400
<v Speaker 3>They're all blue.

0:30:43.800 --> 0:30:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah. So that summer, we're still in nineteen sixty four,

0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:52.720
<v Speaker 2>some Core organizers get ambushed by the Klan who you

0:30:52.800 --> 0:30:54.920
<v Speaker 2>turned in the middle of the highway to trap the

0:30:54.960 --> 0:30:58.280
<v Speaker 2>Core organizers. But the Core organizers get out of it

0:30:58.320 --> 0:31:03.080
<v Speaker 2>with like sick driving skills. Hell yeah, they like floor

0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:06.200
<v Speaker 2>it and they basically like almost run a clan car

0:31:06.240 --> 0:31:08.200
<v Speaker 2>off the road. I think they almost run someone over.

0:31:08.360 --> 0:31:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Like they get the fuck out of there.

0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:11.280
<v Speaker 3>That's horrifying.

0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:15.760
<v Speaker 2>But the clans people they go and snitch them out

0:31:15.800 --> 0:31:19.600
<v Speaker 2>for their dangerous driving. The clan people go to the

0:31:19.640 --> 0:31:22.880
<v Speaker 2>cops and are like, hey, these Core organizers almost killed

0:31:22.920 --> 0:31:25.400
<v Speaker 2>us on the road. You should arrest them. So the

0:31:25.400 --> 0:31:28.440
<v Speaker 2>white chief of police tells one of the black deputies

0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:33.280
<v Speaker 2>go arrest these Corps organizers. The deputy is like, that's

0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:34.000
<v Speaker 2>not what I'm gonna do.

0:31:34.360 --> 0:31:36.400
<v Speaker 3>That's not so I have to go back to my

0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:38.320
<v Speaker 3>community after this. I don't live. My mom in the

0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:40.280
<v Speaker 3>eyes like please don't ask me to do this.

0:31:40.800 --> 0:31:43.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so, you know, deputy's like, well, that's not

0:31:43.760 --> 0:31:46.560
<v Speaker 2>what I'm gonna do. So instead, the black deputies go

0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:49.280
<v Speaker 2>and provide an armed escort to help the Core organizers

0:31:49.320 --> 0:31:51.920
<v Speaker 2>get out of town away from an arrest warrant. Okay,

0:31:51.960 --> 0:31:56.040
<v Speaker 2>come on, and so but they're still like, maybe there's

0:31:56.040 --> 0:31:58.080
<v Speaker 2>something to it, maybe we can still be the Black deputies.

0:31:58.440 --> 0:32:00.000
<v Speaker 2>So then there are ordered to arrest some the Blo

0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:02.960
<v Speaker 2>teenagers who are at the swimming pool, and they refused again.

0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:07.320
<v Speaker 2>And then the final straw, the Klan drove through the

0:32:07.320 --> 0:32:09.760
<v Speaker 2>black part of town with the police escort, throwing out

0:32:09.840 --> 0:32:13.040
<v Speaker 2>leaflets about outside agitators because that's like been the rhetoric

0:32:13.120 --> 0:32:15.160
<v Speaker 2>that the right wing has used forever as being like

0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:20.200
<v Speaker 2>these outside agitators whatever. And Kirkpatrick is finally like, oh yeah,

0:32:20.360 --> 0:32:22.600
<v Speaker 2>and the Klan have a police escort as they're driving

0:32:22.600 --> 0:32:25.200
<v Speaker 2>through the black community throwing this out. And so the

0:32:25.240 --> 0:32:28.600
<v Speaker 2>deputies and Kirkpatrick are like never mind. Specifically, he told

0:32:28.640 --> 0:32:31.040
<v Speaker 2>the chief of police that if the clan convoy ever

0:32:31.080 --> 0:32:34.440
<v Speaker 2>comes back through town, quote, there was going to be

0:32:34.480 --> 0:32:35.440
<v Speaker 2>some killing going on.

0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:43.640
<v Speaker 3>I thought it was gonna be poetic, like, I just

0:32:43.640 --> 0:32:45.640
<v Speaker 3>want to let you know, some murder will happen.

0:32:46.680 --> 0:32:50.880
<v Speaker 2>You have to kill people, because I'm gonna make some

0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:58.360
<v Speaker 2>if this happens amazing. After this, the two groups, Kirkpatrick's

0:32:58.360 --> 0:33:01.600
<v Speaker 2>deputies and Chili Willi's defender, they feel all right with

0:33:01.640 --> 0:33:05.200
<v Speaker 2>each other now, and the deputies proved that they weren't

0:33:05.200 --> 0:33:07.000
<v Speaker 2>going to be pawns for the white power structure.

0:33:07.680 --> 0:33:09.320
<v Speaker 3>Good for you, deputies, And.

0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:11.640
<v Speaker 2>As a shit heated up, more and more black defenders

0:33:11.640 --> 0:33:14.000
<v Speaker 2>started showing up, and the spirit of we're not going

0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:16.400
<v Speaker 2>to fucking put up with this was spreading throughout the town,

0:33:16.440 --> 0:33:19.800
<v Speaker 2>and not just the defenders. At one point, some clansmen

0:33:19.840 --> 0:33:22.280
<v Speaker 2>tried to burn across in one of the reverend's yards,

0:33:22.760 --> 0:33:24.880
<v Speaker 2>only to be scared off by the reverend's wife, who

0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:29.440
<v Speaker 2>started shooting at them with a rifle. Yeah yeah, it

0:33:29.960 --> 0:33:34.760
<v Speaker 2>love it. And once again, majority of these defenders were

0:33:34.800 --> 0:33:37.800
<v Speaker 2>vets World War II, in the Korean War vets, and

0:33:37.840 --> 0:33:40.640
<v Speaker 2>they skewed at older than the activists they were protecting.

0:33:41.400 --> 0:33:44.920
<v Speaker 2>They also had strict membership requirements. Everyone had to be

0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:47.680
<v Speaker 2>committed to defense only. Everyone had to be committed to

0:33:47.720 --> 0:33:51.440
<v Speaker 2>keeping a cool head about them. And then kind of famously,

0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:55.480
<v Speaker 2>they weren't ideological. A lot of the stuff that comes later,

0:33:55.640 --> 0:33:59.080
<v Speaker 2>for better and worse, is ideological, right in different ways.

0:33:59.560 --> 0:34:02.440
<v Speaker 2>These people people were not socialists, they were not communists,

0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:05.360
<v Speaker 2>they weren't anything as as a group. Individuals within them

0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:07.960
<v Speaker 2>were all kinds of different things, I'm sure, including conservatives,

0:34:08.000 --> 0:34:11.200
<v Speaker 2>including liberals, and their ideology, as far as I can tell,

0:34:11.280 --> 0:34:13.080
<v Speaker 2>was basically like we shouldn't let people fuck up the

0:34:13.080 --> 0:34:15.279
<v Speaker 2>black community and murder civil rights activists.

0:34:16.040 --> 0:34:19.200
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think also, you know, to your point, if

0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:22.399
<v Speaker 3>they're all slightly older than the people they're protecting, there's

0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:27.759
<v Speaker 3>absolutely like a generational thing of like, you know, our

0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:33.120
<v Speaker 3>grandparents were enslaved, perhaps some of their parents were enslaved.

0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:37.600
<v Speaker 3>This is liberation at a next level. And what we're

0:34:37.640 --> 0:34:39.759
<v Speaker 3>not going to do is allow you to kill our

0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:43.480
<v Speaker 3>young without putting up a fight first. Yeah, and I

0:34:43.480 --> 0:34:46.880
<v Speaker 3>think it's a really beautiful intergenerational play of like, Okay,

0:34:46.920 --> 0:34:49.200
<v Speaker 3>you guys have this vision for the future, you go

0:34:49.280 --> 0:34:51.640
<v Speaker 3>out and claim that we'll do our best to keep

0:34:51.640 --> 0:34:54.800
<v Speaker 3>you safe while you do that. I think that's really beautiful.

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:57.040
<v Speaker 2>No, that is so fucking beautiful and that's so accurate.

0:34:57.080 --> 0:35:00.120
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly what's happening here, and it like, wow, I

0:35:00.200 --> 0:35:02.279
<v Speaker 2>care about that a lot. I talk sometimes about, like

0:35:02.480 --> 0:35:05.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, in the trans community, about how like oh, well,

0:35:05.280 --> 0:35:08.279
<v Speaker 2>like I'm I'm not that old, but I'm like, you know,

0:35:08.280 --> 0:35:12.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm about forty, and I'm like, you know, do anything

0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:15.239
<v Speaker 2>to protect the like young trans kids, right, and like

0:35:16.480 --> 0:35:20.640
<v Speaker 2>you know who don't appreciate it, you know, like and

0:35:20.680 --> 0:35:23.560
<v Speaker 2>like I that I don't want to draw a direct

0:35:23.600 --> 0:35:26.360
<v Speaker 2>one to one struggle.

0:35:26.400 --> 0:35:30.479
<v Speaker 3>Ye, like listen as somebody who's queer, like there isn't

0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:42.399
<v Speaker 3>absolutely a direct correlation between communities that are actively being haunted, Yeah, right,

0:35:43.360 --> 0:35:47.600
<v Speaker 3>like literally hunted and and and then you know, legislated against,

0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:50.920
<v Speaker 3>which is an entirely different mind fuck of of how

0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:55.000
<v Speaker 3>do I just actively live my life in society without

0:35:55.040 --> 0:35:57.799
<v Speaker 3>being fucked by the government that's supposed to be protecting me.

0:35:58.920 --> 0:36:00.840
<v Speaker 3>And how we how we treat are young you know,

0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:04.799
<v Speaker 3>we want them as much as young people often can't

0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:10.600
<v Speaker 3>appreciate what's being done for them because their worldview is different, right,

0:36:10.800 --> 0:36:13.640
<v Speaker 3>Like they're, oh, we need to be in the streets. Oh,

0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:15.440
<v Speaker 3>we're going to be vocal. We're going to make the

0:36:15.560 --> 0:36:19.000
<v Speaker 3>change that you guys couldn't accomplish happen, Which is a

0:36:19.080 --> 0:36:21.920
<v Speaker 3>thing I hear. You know, a lot of young black activists,

0:36:22.280 --> 0:36:25.319
<v Speaker 3>or even before they're activists more more, you know, as

0:36:25.320 --> 0:36:28.839
<v Speaker 3>they're beginning their journey into activism, I'll say often they're like, well,

0:36:28.880 --> 0:36:30.239
<v Speaker 3>we're not going to be like you be like.

0:36:32.360 --> 0:36:32.560
<v Speaker 4>Chill.

0:36:33.200 --> 0:36:36.840
<v Speaker 3>Okay, we find won a lot of battles, but with

0:36:37.040 --> 0:36:40.799
<v Speaker 3>just that, it's not done yet. Yeah, but we will

0:36:40.840 --> 0:36:43.920
<v Speaker 3>still no matter how you feel, we don't want you

0:36:44.000 --> 0:36:46.160
<v Speaker 3>to be hurt. Yeh, in the same ways we were hurt,

0:36:46.160 --> 0:36:50.200
<v Speaker 3>in the same way we saw our elders hurt. Yeah. Yeah,

0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:53.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean it's generationally, it's the only thing I think

0:36:53.040 --> 0:36:55.680
<v Speaker 3>that a lot of marginalized communities can do is do

0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:59.480
<v Speaker 3>their best to build a wall of protection around the

0:36:59.480 --> 0:37:01.600
<v Speaker 3>next gener coming up, so hopefully they can get a

0:37:01.640 --> 0:37:03.800
<v Speaker 3>little bit further. I think there's a direct correlation.

0:37:04.120 --> 0:37:05.840
<v Speaker 2>No, and that that makes so much sense in it.

0:37:05.920 --> 0:37:08.359
<v Speaker 2>I think it you know, if one of the main

0:37:08.440 --> 0:37:12.360
<v Speaker 2>themes of this episode is about how two different strategies

0:37:12.440 --> 0:37:14.600
<v Speaker 2>can work together. In this case, it's non violence and

0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:19.279
<v Speaker 2>self defense. You know that they like in a similar way,

0:37:19.320 --> 0:37:23.040
<v Speaker 2>the like you carry this further, but we will stand

0:37:23.040 --> 0:37:25.239
<v Speaker 2>here and protect you as you do it, Like here

0:37:25.280 --> 0:37:28.719
<v Speaker 2>are all the resources that we have acquired, that we

0:37:28.760 --> 0:37:31.640
<v Speaker 2>have built up so that you can do this thing. No,

0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:34.719
<v Speaker 2>that's really I really like that. And I guess that

0:37:34.800 --> 0:37:38.319
<v Speaker 2>what Ala Baker was doing, you know, by like being

0:37:38.360 --> 0:37:41.920
<v Speaker 2>the mentor to snick without like and even if her

0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:45.480
<v Speaker 2>main advice was you all should figure out what you

0:37:45.560 --> 0:37:48.960
<v Speaker 2>want to do and don't listen to the charismatic leaders

0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:50.520
<v Speaker 2>who tell you that you should do what they wanted

0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:50.880
<v Speaker 2>you to do.

0:37:51.640 --> 0:37:53.480
<v Speaker 3>I love it, Like I reminds me a lot of

0:37:53.520 --> 0:37:55.920
<v Speaker 3>what Rose Park is doing in her later years, you know,

0:37:57.440 --> 0:38:00.680
<v Speaker 3>also like being a symbol of this one very specific

0:38:00.760 --> 0:38:04.720
<v Speaker 3>and vital movement, but then also you know, actively working

0:38:04.719 --> 0:38:07.160
<v Speaker 3>behind the scenes to help support this next generation as

0:38:07.160 --> 0:38:10.040
<v Speaker 3>they continued the fight. Yeah, I mean being boots on

0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:12.879
<v Speaker 3>the ground talking to be like she she's so much

0:38:12.960 --> 0:38:16.279
<v Speaker 3>larger than that one moment. But again, didn't bother to

0:38:16.360 --> 0:38:20.839
<v Speaker 3>try and take up space. That wasn't that was meant

0:38:20.840 --> 0:38:24.560
<v Speaker 3>for the people and not for an individual. Yeah, it's

0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:26.560
<v Speaker 3>so selfless this week, but the people who are doing

0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:29.080
<v Speaker 3>it right and it's just incredibly impressive.

0:38:29.480 --> 0:38:33.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, totally. And I you know, one of the

0:38:33.120 --> 0:38:35.239
<v Speaker 2>things I struggle with on this show is that I'm like, oh,

0:38:35.280 --> 0:38:37.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about cool people, but I don't believe in

0:38:37.160 --> 0:38:39.840
<v Speaker 2>like heroes. I believe in like role models, or I

0:38:39.840 --> 0:38:43.239
<v Speaker 2>believe in like respecting the work people have done, you know,

0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:46.400
<v Speaker 2>and respecting these stories. Not so that we can be like, oh, well,

0:38:46.440 --> 0:38:48.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm not as cool as that person. I'll never do anything,

0:38:48.280 --> 0:38:50.000
<v Speaker 2>but instead so that people can know like we are all.

0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:53.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, this person wasn't like, you know, I doubt

0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:55.799
<v Speaker 2>when Ella Baker first started, Elbaker was like, I'm the

0:38:55.840 --> 0:39:00.040
<v Speaker 2>one who's gonna change all this shit just did. But

0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:02.880
<v Speaker 2>it was in front of her, you know, I don't know.

0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:07.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, she's got to the work. Yeah just started.

0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:10.120
<v Speaker 3>She was like, no, this has to be different, and

0:39:10.160 --> 0:39:14.600
<v Speaker 3>it's Yeah, it'll be interesting going forward how we as

0:39:14.600 --> 0:39:18.160
<v Speaker 3>a society manage our heroes. I think, particularly with the

0:39:18.280 --> 0:39:22.759
<v Speaker 3>rise of social media, we're seeing a decline in celebrity. Yeah,

0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:26.600
<v Speaker 3>right there, we don't have you're Michael Jackson's where people

0:39:26.600 --> 0:39:29.800
<v Speaker 3>are fainting just passing them in the street. They're like,

0:39:29.800 --> 0:39:32.560
<v Speaker 3>oh my god, I'm in the vicinity of this person, right,

0:39:33.120 --> 0:39:36.920
<v Speaker 3>And I think celebrity is going to become to some degree.

0:39:37.239 --> 0:39:39.080
<v Speaker 3>I think I think also have popular people that were

0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:41.919
<v Speaker 3>interested in following their stories. But I think that era

0:39:42.080 --> 0:39:46.560
<v Speaker 3>of hero icon worship is we're moving past it slowly.

0:39:46.880 --> 0:39:52.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Instead, what we should be worshiping is uh, potatoes, Yeah,

0:39:52.200 --> 0:39:57.399
<v Speaker 2>potatoes and whatever. Literally whatever. The first ad you hear

0:39:57.640 --> 0:40:01.080
<v Speaker 2>once we cut to ads is should be your new God.

0:40:01.640 --> 0:40:04.080
<v Speaker 3>Awesome. I can't wait to figure out where any god is.

0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:07.640
<v Speaker 2>I hope it's not the Highway State patrol or gold

0:40:08.000 --> 0:40:09.520
<v Speaker 2>or one of the other man.

0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:14.120
<v Speaker 3>Meaning and evil and what you're really worshiping is your

0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:14.719
<v Speaker 3>fear of that.

0:40:18.200 --> 0:40:27.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, here's some ads aka your new gods. Okay, we

0:40:27.920 --> 0:40:30.399
<v Speaker 2>are back. And we were talking about how Chili Willy

0:40:30.440 --> 0:40:34.800
<v Speaker 2>and Frederick Douglass are getting together, and it was actually

0:40:35.280 --> 0:40:40.120
<v Speaker 2>this person who was ideologically not an ideologically convinced white

0:40:40.760 --> 0:40:44.960
<v Speaker 2>core organizer, who was very into non violence, was kind

0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:47.160
<v Speaker 2>of the one who was like, no, you all need

0:40:47.160 --> 0:40:49.520
<v Speaker 2>to sit down and actually have these meetings and figure

0:40:49.520 --> 0:40:52.600
<v Speaker 2>out what you're doing. His name is Charlie Fenton. He

0:40:52.680 --> 0:40:55.960
<v Speaker 2>spent most of his summer in jail and then he

0:40:56.000 --> 0:41:00.760
<v Speaker 2>came to Jonesborough and he was super ideologically committed to nonviolence,

0:41:02.120 --> 0:41:04.879
<v Speaker 2>but he he quickly realized that the two things went

0:41:04.960 --> 0:41:07.600
<v Speaker 2>very well together, that building a non violence resistance movement

0:41:07.640 --> 0:41:11.640
<v Speaker 2>in Durance Jonesborough required the work of these defenders, and

0:41:11.680 --> 0:41:13.040
<v Speaker 2>so he was like, hey, maybe you all should have

0:41:13.120 --> 0:41:17.600
<v Speaker 2>some structure. And so in November nineteen sixty four, the

0:41:17.640 --> 0:41:20.239
<v Speaker 2>two groups met up in the Masonic Hall and they

0:41:20.239 --> 0:41:24.680
<v Speaker 2>formed a protective association. The core organizer wasn't part of it. Fortunately,

0:41:24.800 --> 0:41:27.520
<v Speaker 2>he was like, hey, maybe I'll meet up and then

0:41:27.600 --> 0:41:30.120
<v Speaker 2>dipped out, which is good. That is what he should

0:41:30.160 --> 0:41:34.200
<v Speaker 2>have done. On January fifth, nineteen sixty five, they formally

0:41:34.239 --> 0:41:37.080
<v Speaker 2>incorporated with a name. They were the Deacons for Defense

0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:39.759
<v Speaker 2>and Justice. And what's another thing that I think is

0:41:39.800 --> 0:41:42.719
<v Speaker 2>really cool. The two founders, Chili William and Kirkpatrick. They

0:41:42.760 --> 0:41:45.920
<v Speaker 2>didn't become the leaders. The president was another one of

0:41:45.920 --> 0:41:48.360
<v Speaker 2>the defenders, the vice president another one of the deputies.

0:41:48.719 --> 0:41:51.239
<v Speaker 2>The founders stayed part of it, but they didn't take

0:41:51.239 --> 0:41:54.080
<v Speaker 2>control of it, and they set up a structure as

0:41:54.120 --> 0:41:58.279
<v Speaker 2>really interesting to me. There's members pay dues of two

0:41:58.320 --> 0:42:00.920
<v Speaker 2>dollars a month, which is basically pooling money for ammunition.

0:42:02.200 --> 0:42:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Everyone provided their own rifles, and they set up four

0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:07.600
<v Speaker 2>membership tiers, which wasn't like a hierarchy of command. They

0:42:07.640 --> 0:42:09.760
<v Speaker 2>had a command structure, but it's unrelated when talking about

0:42:10.640 --> 0:42:12.840
<v Speaker 2>you had your core group of dues paying activists, and

0:42:12.840 --> 0:42:15.160
<v Speaker 2>then a broader group of people who sometimes paid dues,

0:42:15.680 --> 0:42:18.040
<v Speaker 2>and then you had an even broader group of reinforcements

0:42:18.080 --> 0:42:20.400
<v Speaker 2>who could be called upon in time of need. And

0:42:20.440 --> 0:42:23.279
<v Speaker 2>then you had a fourth tier, which was basically like, look,

0:42:23.320 --> 0:42:24.960
<v Speaker 2>if you're like doing really good shit, you want to

0:42:24.960 --> 0:42:28.080
<v Speaker 2>call yourself a deacon. That's chill, And that seems like

0:42:28.120 --> 0:42:30.759
<v Speaker 2>a really smart way to run a community defense organization

0:42:30.840 --> 0:42:33.680
<v Speaker 2>that acknowledges that not everyone is going to make it

0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:35.680
<v Speaker 2>the center of their lives. Right.

0:42:35.719 --> 0:42:38.920
<v Speaker 3>It sounds like radical acceptance, like come as you are,

0:42:39.160 --> 0:42:41.920
<v Speaker 3>Like if you want to be all in, great, if

0:42:41.960 --> 0:42:43.799
<v Speaker 3>you just kind of want to hang around and see

0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:46.359
<v Speaker 3>if that's about help, cool, We just accept you as

0:42:46.400 --> 0:42:47.840
<v Speaker 3>you are, just be about the mission.

0:42:48.160 --> 0:42:48.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:42:48.840 --> 0:42:51.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. At first it was more or less all men,

0:42:52.000 --> 0:42:53.800
<v Speaker 2>except some one or two women who were helping on

0:42:53.800 --> 0:42:57.640
<v Speaker 2>an organizational level. Slowly, more women started becoming involved, especially

0:42:57.640 --> 0:42:59.680
<v Speaker 2>as Core's influence rubbed off on it, because Core was

0:42:59.680 --> 0:43:05.680
<v Speaker 2>actually fairly actively gender integrated. And Kirkpatrick, the guy who

0:43:05.719 --> 0:43:08.120
<v Speaker 2>had been a deputy, he got fired from the high

0:43:08.160 --> 0:43:11.440
<v Speaker 2>school for starting the Deacons, which led to the deacons

0:43:11.520 --> 0:43:15.960
<v Speaker 2>first conflict with the authorities. Students at that school started

0:43:15.960 --> 0:43:19.120
<v Speaker 2>picketing because of his dismissal and for black control of

0:43:19.160 --> 0:43:23.120
<v Speaker 2>black schools, which stands out from the broader civil rights

0:43:23.120 --> 0:43:25.560
<v Speaker 2>movement at the time, which was much more focused on desegregation,

0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:29.560
<v Speaker 2>whereas in this case these students were focused on black autonomy.

0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:32.640
<v Speaker 2>It is a fairly major tension that was going to

0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:37.920
<v Speaker 2>emerge more clearly in a couple of years. But the

0:43:38.040 --> 0:43:41.719
<v Speaker 2>kids are picketing their high school and firefighters show up

0:43:41.760 --> 0:43:45.040
<v Speaker 2>ready to hose them down right because they're being fucks.

0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:48.440
<v Speaker 3>It's the good use of the fire department, super good

0:43:48.520 --> 0:43:51.520
<v Speaker 3>use of water. Yeah, aces job everyone.

0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, the deacons staunch conservative conservationists. They take firing positions

0:43:58.360 --> 0:44:01.279
<v Speaker 2>and say to that, to the fire fighters. Quote, if

0:44:01.320 --> 0:44:03.719
<v Speaker 2>you turn those water hoses on those kids, there's going

0:44:03.760 --> 0:44:05.440
<v Speaker 2>to be some blood out here today.

0:44:06.320 --> 0:44:10.160
<v Speaker 3>Okay, again, just not mixing the words up, just letting

0:44:10.200 --> 0:44:12.600
<v Speaker 3>you know immediately, don't fuck around.

0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:16.400
<v Speaker 2>It's just what will happen. And the firefighters.

0:44:15.960 --> 0:44:22.440
<v Speaker 3>Left goodbye again, we say, because they're just walking around

0:44:22.680 --> 0:44:23.560
<v Speaker 3>so ridiculous.

0:44:24.280 --> 0:44:27.080
<v Speaker 2>And the deacons, after they win this fight, they get popular.

0:44:27.560 --> 0:44:29.799
<v Speaker 2>A whole new group of people start joining the civil

0:44:29.880 --> 0:44:32.279
<v Speaker 2>rights movement, folks who hadn't been attracted to the more

0:44:32.280 --> 0:44:35.719
<v Speaker 2>middle class sensibilities of the older groups, and nor the

0:44:35.719 --> 0:44:39.160
<v Speaker 2>people who hadn't been attracted to the specifically youth nonviolent spirit.

0:44:39.200 --> 0:44:41.439
<v Speaker 2>You get the sort of like third basically the people

0:44:41.440 --> 0:44:44.440
<v Speaker 2>who are like, oh shit, okay, yeah, this is the

0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:45.719
<v Speaker 2>tactic that appeals to us.

0:44:46.280 --> 0:44:49.279
<v Speaker 3>It works. I bet it was the response because you

0:44:49.640 --> 0:44:51.600
<v Speaker 3>when you hear non violence, you're like, I'm not about

0:44:51.640 --> 0:44:53.359
<v Speaker 3>to be in the streets getting my ass whopped. Like

0:44:53.400 --> 0:44:56.239
<v Speaker 3>it just does not sound like it's not appealing at

0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:59.200
<v Speaker 3>least to me as an individual anyway. I understand the

0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:02.319
<v Speaker 3>yeah behind doing it, but the peel of like and

0:45:02.320 --> 0:45:05.399
<v Speaker 3>now we're just gonna allow ourselves to be be as

0:45:05.400 --> 0:45:09.520
<v Speaker 3>a showing of like what happens to us anyway is right, God,

0:45:09.560 --> 0:45:12.600
<v Speaker 3>it's so brief. But then you know this idea of like,

0:45:12.640 --> 0:45:16.120
<v Speaker 3>oh no, actually you can be armed, and we helped

0:45:16.200 --> 0:45:19.640
<v Speaker 3>protect and save kids. Now those water hoses break bones,

0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:23.200
<v Speaker 3>like it's really dangerous. That's incredible. Yeah. I could definitely

0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:25.759
<v Speaker 3>see just regular community folks being like, oh, okay, we

0:45:25.840 --> 0:45:26.719
<v Speaker 3>have a system now.

0:45:27.040 --> 0:45:31.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally. And So there's another mill town in Louisiana.

0:45:31.600 --> 0:45:33.960
<v Speaker 2>It's the opposite side of Louisiana. It feels like three

0:45:34.000 --> 0:45:37.399
<v Speaker 2>hundred miles away or some shit. It's called Bogolusa, and

0:45:37.440 --> 0:45:38.919
<v Speaker 2>it was one of the worst hot beds of clan

0:45:39.000 --> 0:45:42.399
<v Speaker 2>activity in the in the country. It had the most

0:45:42.480 --> 0:45:45.880
<v Speaker 2>clansmen per capita anywhere in Louisiana, which is an impressive

0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:49.840
<v Speaker 2>state to have the most clansmen per capita. In klansmen

0:45:49.920 --> 0:45:53.640
<v Speaker 2>held office. They had enough power that when President lynd

0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:56.440
<v Speaker 2>And Johnson sent a special aid to go give a

0:45:56.440 --> 0:46:01.360
<v Speaker 2>talk about desegregation, he wasn't able to speak. The President's

0:46:01.400 --> 0:46:05.480
<v Speaker 2>fucking aid like. The event was shut down by burning

0:46:05.520 --> 0:46:09.120
<v Speaker 2>crosses and angry racists. They went out and passed the

0:46:09.239 --> 0:46:11.760
<v Speaker 2>clans people went out and passed handbills to every white

0:46:11.760 --> 0:46:14.720
<v Speaker 2>family in town saying if you show up to this meeting,

0:46:15.160 --> 0:46:19.799
<v Speaker 2>we will kill you. Where there's strong repression, there's strong resistance.

0:46:20.480 --> 0:46:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Black farmers in the area already had a very strong

0:46:25.200 --> 0:46:28.439
<v Speaker 2>They had a lot of advantages the black folks from

0:46:28.440 --> 0:46:30.560
<v Speaker 2>a strategic point of view, they had two things going

0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:33.719
<v Speaker 2>for them. The rural nearby area. The black farmers in

0:46:33.719 --> 0:46:36.200
<v Speaker 2>that area largely owned their own land, which made them

0:46:36.320 --> 0:46:40.439
<v Speaker 2>substantially sort of sharecropping or anything like that, so they're

0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:45.040
<v Speaker 2>much more resistant against economic repression. And then black workers

0:46:45.040 --> 0:46:49.160
<v Speaker 2>in the town were largely incorporated into a few different unions,

0:46:49.440 --> 0:46:52.120
<v Speaker 2>and therefore they had a lot of experience organizing. And

0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:55.719
<v Speaker 2>so for decades the NAACP had prevented the clan from

0:46:55.760 --> 0:47:01.400
<v Speaker 2>purging black voters from the roles. So that town they

0:47:01.440 --> 0:47:04.520
<v Speaker 2>invite some core activists white some white core activists to

0:47:04.520 --> 0:47:06.480
<v Speaker 2>come to town and house them in a black home.

0:47:06.880 --> 0:47:09.279
<v Speaker 2>The clan shows up at the house, but so did

0:47:09.400 --> 0:47:13.160
<v Speaker 2>armed Black Towns people. The Klan fucked off, as is

0:47:13.160 --> 0:47:17.239
<v Speaker 2>their want. The core organizers tried to drive out of town,

0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:19.480
<v Speaker 2>but they were followed by an angry mob and a car,

0:47:19.719 --> 0:47:22.480
<v Speaker 2>and so they took refuge in a black cafe where

0:47:22.520 --> 0:47:25.440
<v Speaker 2>the same scene repeated. Angry fucks showed up and started

0:47:25.480 --> 0:47:27.880
<v Speaker 2>trying to surround the cafe, but so did armed defenders,

0:47:27.880 --> 0:47:31.480
<v Speaker 2>and the klan fucked off again, and the basically the

0:47:31.640 --> 0:47:35.800
<v Speaker 2>organizers escorted home out of town by an armed caravan

0:47:35.840 --> 0:47:40.440
<v Speaker 2>of defenders. One of the organizers later he said, I

0:47:40.440 --> 0:47:43.040
<v Speaker 2>thought I was a pacifist, but then I realized I

0:47:43.120 --> 0:47:47.359
<v Speaker 2>wasn't anymore. That's not a direct quote. Sorry, I said

0:47:47.360 --> 0:47:51.240
<v Speaker 2>that in my direct quote voice, but that's my paraphrase voice.

0:47:51.719 --> 0:47:55.960
<v Speaker 2>And so Bogolusa formed the second Deacons chapter after that event.

0:47:56.800 --> 0:47:59.520
<v Speaker 2>By May twenty third, nineteen sixty five, the mayor of

0:47:59.560 --> 0:48:07.720
<v Speaker 2>bogolu So repealed all segregation mandates. And wow, yeah.

0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:08.279
<v Speaker 3>Wow, I'm just trying to think of, like, that's such

0:48:08.320 --> 0:48:12.960
<v Speaker 3>a fast turnaround for a space that has numbers, which

0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:18.160
<v Speaker 3>I think would be, you know, a factor in the

0:48:18.200 --> 0:48:20.680
<v Speaker 3>speed in which you'd be able to desegregate a space

0:48:21.239 --> 0:48:23.720
<v Speaker 3>violence where or the threat of violence works.

0:48:23.800 --> 0:48:28.200
<v Speaker 2>I get like stopping other people's violence in this case,

0:48:28.840 --> 0:48:33.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, because it's stopping letting their violence work. And

0:48:33.560 --> 0:48:37.600
<v Speaker 2>again it's funny because it's like, I'm not ideologically committed

0:48:37.640 --> 0:48:40.720
<v Speaker 2>to nonviolence. I actually and I find it strategically interesting,

0:48:40.760 --> 0:48:43.320
<v Speaker 2>but not It's not a strategy that I've ever personally

0:48:43.360 --> 0:48:48.360
<v Speaker 2>particularly employed. Sure, but like it's still interesting to me.

0:48:48.600 --> 0:48:52.680
<v Speaker 2>It's within the tool the toolbox of activist tools, you know.

0:48:53.360 --> 0:48:57.480
<v Speaker 2>But when the national director of CORE showed up in town,

0:48:58.320 --> 0:49:00.480
<v Speaker 2>I think the I think the way it down is

0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:02.279
<v Speaker 2>that the like local police were like, all right, we'll

0:49:02.320 --> 0:49:04.359
<v Speaker 2>protect you, and he was like, no, I'm good, the

0:49:04.360 --> 0:49:05.520
<v Speaker 2>Deacons will protect me.

0:49:06.560 --> 0:49:08.200
<v Speaker 3>Actually that half people are ready for that.

0:49:08.520 --> 0:49:11.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you, Oh my god. So okay. So that's

0:49:11.360 --> 0:49:16.960
<v Speaker 2>like the either way nonviolence is relying on armed people,

0:49:17.080 --> 0:49:20.440
<v Speaker 2>and it's trying to rely on cops and like federal

0:49:20.480 --> 0:49:23.960
<v Speaker 2>troops and like the state as the armed force, right,

0:49:24.960 --> 0:49:27.319
<v Speaker 2>and so instead he's saying, no, the armed force I

0:49:27.400 --> 0:49:31.279
<v Speaker 2>trust are the Deacons for Defense and Justice. In the end,

0:49:31.600 --> 0:49:34.520
<v Speaker 2>after only a few years, the Deacons had twenty one

0:49:34.680 --> 0:49:38.920
<v Speaker 2>formal chapters and forty six affiliates throughout the country, But

0:49:39.040 --> 0:49:42.279
<v Speaker 2>by nineteen sixty eight they were overshadowed by the Black

0:49:42.320 --> 0:49:44.359
<v Speaker 2>Panther Party, which I'm sure we'll talk about more some

0:49:44.400 --> 0:49:48.799
<v Speaker 2>other time, and sort of a close to this era.

0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:52.759
<v Speaker 2>As the sixties wear on, tensions are growing within the

0:49:52.760 --> 0:49:55.240
<v Speaker 2>civil rights movement because it was it was finding itself.

0:49:55.280 --> 0:49:57.320
<v Speaker 2>It was starting to be about more than just voting

0:49:57.360 --> 0:50:02.120
<v Speaker 2>rights and desegregation. And there's I named James Meredith, and

0:50:02.360 --> 0:50:04.160
<v Speaker 2>I first wrote there was this guy. But there is

0:50:04.200 --> 0:50:06.440
<v Speaker 2>a guy. He's still alive. He's a black man with

0:50:06.480 --> 0:50:09.359
<v Speaker 2>some Choctaw heritage. He was a vet. He spent nine

0:50:09.400 --> 0:50:11.160
<v Speaker 2>years in the Air Force from nineteen fifty one to

0:50:11.239 --> 0:50:16.840
<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty. He's actually fairly conservative, but he's doesn't like

0:50:16.880 --> 0:50:20.879
<v Speaker 2>white supremacy. He integrated the University of Mississippi, which did

0:50:20.920 --> 0:50:22.520
<v Speaker 2>not want to be integrated by him.

0:50:23.560 --> 0:50:25.680
<v Speaker 3>Missis Sippy still doesn't want to be No.

0:50:28.480 --> 0:50:32.440
<v Speaker 2>I believe that this is the democratic governor who said, like,

0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:35.799
<v Speaker 2>I will die before I allowed desegregation in my state,

0:50:35.880 --> 0:50:38.280
<v Speaker 2>or something like that. I can't remember it exactly.

0:50:38.480 --> 0:50:40.839
<v Speaker 3>You're welcome to do that, sir, I know, right.

0:50:41.080 --> 0:50:46.960
<v Speaker 2>Deacons of defense are like I volunteer. It took a

0:50:47.000 --> 0:50:50.879
<v Speaker 2>bunch of applications and a lawsuit with help from the NAACP,

0:50:51.280 --> 0:50:53.720
<v Speaker 2>and then federal intervention, and then he had to survive

0:50:53.800 --> 0:50:56.839
<v Speaker 2>a frame up on voter fraud, all kinds of shit.

0:50:56.920 --> 0:50:59.200
<v Speaker 2>They did everything they could to try and stop him.

0:51:00.080 --> 0:51:03.640
<v Speaker 2>But when he finally went to go enroll because he

0:51:03.640 --> 0:51:06.760
<v Speaker 2>had succeeded, these lawsuits. It took four hundred law enforcement

0:51:06.800 --> 0:51:09.399
<v Speaker 2>folks from various federal agencies and shit to protect him,

0:51:10.360 --> 0:51:14.960
<v Speaker 2>and still racists, including mostly the fucking white racist students

0:51:14.960 --> 0:51:18.359
<v Speaker 2>at this fucking university, rioted to try and prevent him

0:51:18.360 --> 0:51:21.120
<v Speaker 2>from enrolling and like fought those four hundred cops or whatever.

0:51:21.840 --> 0:51:25.280
<v Speaker 2>So he goes to the school, he graduates, he faces

0:51:25.320 --> 0:51:28.160
<v Speaker 2>a ton of abuse the whole time from racist students,

0:51:28.200 --> 0:51:31.880
<v Speaker 2>which is frankly most of the students. For his next degree,

0:51:31.920 --> 0:51:35.680
<v Speaker 2>for some completely understandable reason, he goes to a university

0:51:35.680 --> 0:51:37.120
<v Speaker 2>in Nigeria.

0:51:37.880 --> 0:51:41.719
<v Speaker 3>Yes, get all the way out of you're like no.

0:51:42.680 --> 0:51:45.520
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen sixty six, he declares that he's going to

0:51:45.560 --> 0:51:48.319
<v Speaker 2>do a march against fear, and he's going to do

0:51:48.400 --> 0:51:51.000
<v Speaker 2>it without. He's going to go on a two hundred

0:51:51.000 --> 0:51:54.080
<v Speaker 2>and twenty mile march from Memphis, Tennessee, to Jackson, Mississippi.

0:51:54.320 --> 0:51:57.759
<v Speaker 2>He didn't want any of the major civil rights organizations involved.

0:51:58.440 --> 0:52:01.239
<v Speaker 2>And I believe I've read two different things. One is

0:52:01.239 --> 0:52:03.640
<v Speaker 2>that he started alone and he intended to do it alone.

0:52:03.960 --> 0:52:06.719
<v Speaker 2>And one is that he specifically said only black men

0:52:06.760 --> 0:52:11.000
<v Speaker 2>can join me, and I think that meant black men.

0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:13.719
<v Speaker 2>It absolutely meant no white people. I'm not certain whether

0:52:13.719 --> 0:52:15.759
<v Speaker 2>he was trying to make a statement about gender, and

0:52:15.840 --> 0:52:17.319
<v Speaker 2>he's just like, I'm not trying to do this like

0:52:17.320 --> 0:52:19.160
<v Speaker 2>how other people are doing it. I'm gonna do this thing,

0:52:19.200 --> 0:52:23.479
<v Speaker 2>a march against fear. Literally the second day of the march,

0:52:23.480 --> 0:52:25.920
<v Speaker 2>a white sniper shot him. He survived.

0:52:25.920 --> 0:52:31.240
<v Speaker 3>Wow, wow, right, because he's still alive, you said, I.

0:52:31.080 --> 0:52:35.680
<v Speaker 2>Was like, no, I know, And like, after a while

0:52:36.239 --> 0:52:41.040
<v Speaker 2>in a hospital, he rejoins the march, and he didn't

0:52:41.120 --> 0:52:44.800
<v Speaker 2>trust the other civil rights organizations, but he considered himself

0:52:44.880 --> 0:52:50.320
<v Speaker 2>at war with white supremacy. So after this attack, leaders

0:52:50.360 --> 0:52:53.040
<v Speaker 2>and and or delegates from very civil rights organizations they

0:52:53.040 --> 0:52:55.800
<v Speaker 2>meet up in Memphis to decide what to do. Basically,

0:52:55.840 --> 0:52:59.000
<v Speaker 2>they're like, violence can't stop our movement. We can't allow

0:52:59.000 --> 0:53:02.440
<v Speaker 2>that to happen. But they were nowhere near a consensus

0:53:02.480 --> 0:53:05.279
<v Speaker 2>beyond this point. This is like it's nineteen sixty six,

0:53:05.320 --> 0:53:08.440
<v Speaker 2>and this like coalition is really starting to come apart

0:53:09.080 --> 0:53:11.719
<v Speaker 2>because they don't actually all want the same things right,

0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:14.480
<v Speaker 2>And they reach a compromise. They decide that they're going

0:53:14.520 --> 0:53:16.600
<v Speaker 2>to go continue this march, which is a little bit funny.

0:53:16.600 --> 0:53:18.200
<v Speaker 2>I kind of wonder what he thought about it because

0:53:18.239 --> 0:53:20.200
<v Speaker 2>like his whole thing is he didn't want these people involved.

0:53:20.440 --> 0:53:22.320
<v Speaker 2>But then again he also got s. I don't know

0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:25.120
<v Speaker 2>what he wanted about this, you know, but the civil

0:53:25.200 --> 0:53:28.440
<v Speaker 2>rights organizations they reach a compromise. Martin Luther King wanted

0:53:28.600 --> 0:53:34.000
<v Speaker 2>no guns, yes, white people. Snick wanted deacons as an

0:53:34.080 --> 0:53:37.359
<v Speaker 2>armed defense force and no white people, which fits better

0:53:37.400 --> 0:53:40.719
<v Speaker 2>with James Meritith's original conception of the march anyway, And

0:53:40.760 --> 0:53:45.000
<v Speaker 2>so they compromised white allies yes, deacons for defense yes.

0:53:46.280 --> 0:53:48.040
<v Speaker 2>And the split in this movement is about a ton

0:53:48.040 --> 0:53:50.040
<v Speaker 2>of things. It's about the role of white organizers, and

0:53:50.080 --> 0:53:53.880
<v Speaker 2>I think especially about white leadership and like direction. But

0:53:53.960 --> 0:53:56.239
<v Speaker 2>maybe I'm just saying that. I not one hundred cent

0:53:56.320 --> 0:53:58.440
<v Speaker 2>certain it's about the use of firearms. It's about the

0:53:58.440 --> 0:54:01.480
<v Speaker 2>growing disenchantment with the political process specifically, Like there's this

0:54:01.520 --> 0:54:03.160
<v Speaker 2>whole thing that I didn't even get into, where like

0:54:03.320 --> 0:54:05.719
<v Speaker 2>the Democratic Party was like, nah, we actually don't fucking

0:54:05.719 --> 0:54:09.000
<v Speaker 2>care about you. Fuck you. And also there's this question

0:54:09.040 --> 0:54:11.920
<v Speaker 2>about growing militancy. There's like this question about like what

0:54:11.960 --> 0:54:14.239
<v Speaker 2>people actually like want. Do people want a revolution? Do

0:54:14.280 --> 0:54:18.240
<v Speaker 2>they want to be accepted within mainstream society? And specifically

0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:21.680
<v Speaker 2>about the desire for desegregation versus black power, which is

0:54:21.680 --> 0:54:25.400
<v Speaker 2>not always a dichotomy but is like kind of presented

0:54:25.440 --> 0:54:29.640
<v Speaker 2>as one in a lot of these conversations. But both

0:54:30.080 --> 0:54:33.279
<v Speaker 2>SNICK and the SCLC and you know, these groups that

0:54:33.320 --> 0:54:35.680
<v Speaker 2>don't like each other. They finish this march, the March

0:54:35.680 --> 0:54:38.759
<v Speaker 2>Against Fear. Fifteen thousand people are on the march by

0:54:38.760 --> 0:54:41.799
<v Speaker 2>the end of the march, including ten Yeah. Yeah, it's

0:54:41.800 --> 0:54:44.280
<v Speaker 2>fucking cool and like, it's interesting because they had mostly

0:54:44.360 --> 0:54:47.640
<v Speaker 2>moved away from protest marches, especially the like youth for

0:54:47.760 --> 0:54:50.640
<v Speaker 2>organizers that are like, no direct action is what matters, right,

0:54:51.239 --> 0:54:54.400
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, I don't know, I think it's pretty

0:54:54.400 --> 0:54:56.520
<v Speaker 2>direct action if you're getting shot for trying to do it.

0:54:56.440 --> 0:54:58.480
<v Speaker 3>You know, Yeah, yeah, for sure.

0:54:59.239 --> 0:55:02.719
<v Speaker 2>And this this included ten buses of union auto workers

0:55:02.760 --> 0:55:05.200
<v Speaker 2>from Chicago came down to join the march just to

0:55:05.320 --> 0:55:07.959
<v Speaker 2>shout out that the labor movement did do some good

0:55:07.960 --> 0:55:11.080
<v Speaker 2>things at various points in the history. And along race lines,

0:55:12.040 --> 0:55:14.560
<v Speaker 2>four thousand people were registered to vote. Along the way

0:55:15.440 --> 0:55:17.359
<v Speaker 2>and where we're going to end it, the last little thing,

0:55:17.360 --> 0:55:20.239
<v Speaker 2>because it's sort of the end of this chunk. On

0:55:20.320 --> 0:55:25.160
<v Speaker 2>June sixteenth, nineteen sixty six, Snick's president Kuame Toure, which

0:55:25.200 --> 0:55:27.719
<v Speaker 2>is stokely Carmichael and all the history books, but he

0:55:27.800 --> 0:55:31.279
<v Speaker 2>changes name later in life, and so I'm using both

0:55:31.560 --> 0:55:33.040
<v Speaker 2>so that people know who I'm talking about. But his

0:55:33.120 --> 0:55:37.440
<v Speaker 2>name was Kwame Tore And he gets arrested for trespassing

0:55:37.480 --> 0:55:41.120
<v Speaker 2>on public property, which is a cool, interesting trick.

0:55:42.560 --> 0:55:43.440
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, how do you do that?

0:55:43.719 --> 0:55:49.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm not I think you just be black. And in Greenwood, Mississippi,

0:55:49.440 --> 0:55:52.840
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixty six, he gets held for several hours.

0:55:53.200 --> 0:55:55.240
<v Speaker 2>When he gets out, he goes back to the march,

0:55:55.320 --> 0:55:57.160
<v Speaker 2>he gets up on the podium and he gives a speech,

0:55:57.719 --> 0:55:59.960
<v Speaker 2>and he calls up a chant we want black power.

0:56:00.320 --> 0:56:02.320
<v Speaker 2>I guess called his black power speech. It was, in

0:56:02.440 --> 0:56:04.520
<v Speaker 2>his words, a call for black people in the country

0:56:04.520 --> 0:56:07.080
<v Speaker 2>to unite, to recognize their heritage and build a sense

0:56:07.120 --> 0:56:10.600
<v Speaker 2>of community. Quote more from him about this. When you

0:56:10.640 --> 0:56:12.800
<v Speaker 2>talk about black power, you talk about bringing this country

0:56:12.800 --> 0:56:14.919
<v Speaker 2>to its knees anytime it messes with a black man.

0:56:15.200 --> 0:56:17.680
<v Speaker 2>Any white man in this country knows about power. He

0:56:17.760 --> 0:56:19.560
<v Speaker 2>knows what white power is, and he ought to know

0:56:19.560 --> 0:56:23.759
<v Speaker 2>what black power is. And this is not the end

0:56:23.800 --> 0:56:25.840
<v Speaker 2>of the civil rights movement, but it's one of the

0:56:25.840 --> 0:56:27.640
<v Speaker 2>places we can point to a split, and so it's

0:56:27.719 --> 0:56:30.680
<v Speaker 2>kind of where I'm going to end it. Soon enough,

0:56:30.719 --> 0:56:34.160
<v Speaker 2>you get the Black Panthers, who were ideological eclipsing the

0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:37.640
<v Speaker 2>Deacons for Defense Snick and Core go radical as hell.

0:56:37.800 --> 0:56:42.279
<v Speaker 2>They were done with nonviolence. Core at least embraced black nationalism.

0:56:42.840 --> 0:56:46.719
<v Speaker 2>The SCLC. The NAACP in turn rejected black power, not

0:56:46.800 --> 0:56:49.440
<v Speaker 2>like as a as a slogan, I'm not trying to

0:56:49.480 --> 0:56:53.640
<v Speaker 2>be like whatever complicated, yeah, and going forward from there,

0:56:53.640 --> 0:56:55.600
<v Speaker 2>There's so many other cool people who did cool stuff.

0:56:55.600 --> 0:56:57.080
<v Speaker 2>But this is where we're going to leave the story.

0:56:58.600 --> 0:57:02.680
<v Speaker 3>This was an amaze journey so many people I didn't

0:57:02.800 --> 0:57:05.960
<v Speaker 3>know about. I love learning about the people who made

0:57:06.000 --> 0:57:13.440
<v Speaker 3>the big moments possible, and especially hearing about the rural

0:57:13.520 --> 0:57:17.240
<v Speaker 3>South where shit was really help for people, and like

0:57:17.280 --> 0:57:19.560
<v Speaker 3>how did they deal with this? You know? It's like

0:57:20.840 --> 0:57:24.520
<v Speaker 3>and also this idea of like, we need multiple forms

0:57:24.520 --> 0:57:28.120
<v Speaker 3>of activism to reach our end goal. I think that's

0:57:28.120 --> 0:57:30.680
<v Speaker 3>what's most interesting about this because a lot of people

0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:33.760
<v Speaker 3>have issues, you know, with the NAACP at different times.

0:57:33.880 --> 0:57:41.360
<v Speaker 3>For you know, their focus was legality right first, and

0:57:41.400 --> 0:57:44.240
<v Speaker 3>it's also like a lot of class issues, you know,

0:57:44.280 --> 0:57:48.840
<v Speaker 3>they were recording a certain type of black person, And

0:57:48.880 --> 0:57:53.040
<v Speaker 3>I think it's interesting to hear how at the end

0:57:53.120 --> 0:57:55.640
<v Speaker 3>of the day, like all of these different divisions had

0:57:55.640 --> 0:57:59.680
<v Speaker 3>to team up and compromise on their visions in order

0:57:59.760 --> 0:58:03.640
<v Speaker 3>to move the needle. Yeah, it gives me a lot

0:58:03.640 --> 0:58:06.840
<v Speaker 3>of hope for where our activism is today and the

0:58:06.880 --> 0:58:10.000
<v Speaker 3>things that we've been to accomplish. A lot of times

0:58:10.560 --> 0:58:16.440
<v Speaker 3>that in fighting can seem insurmountable and like it's halting things,

0:58:16.440 --> 0:58:19.200
<v Speaker 3>but really I think it's just making the entire movement

0:58:19.600 --> 0:58:21.600
<v Speaker 3>richer totally.

0:58:22.840 --> 0:58:25.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think it's really you know, interesting, because there's

0:58:25.200 --> 0:58:29.520
<v Speaker 4>no one right way to achieve you know, certain goals,

0:58:29.600 --> 0:58:32.840
<v Speaker 4>and you might have to borrow from different baskets, and

0:58:33.200 --> 0:58:38.080
<v Speaker 4>like Joel said, it's about the combination or the mixture

0:58:39.120 --> 0:58:41.880
<v Speaker 4>in the compromise, you know, of all these different tactics

0:58:41.880 --> 0:58:44.520
<v Speaker 4>to achieve the common goal. And sometimes you know, there

0:58:44.600 --> 0:58:48.880
<v Speaker 4>is infighting and disagreements, but ultimately it's about just moving

0:58:48.880 --> 0:58:51.400
<v Speaker 4>the needle forward. And I think that's really really interesting.

0:58:51.920 --> 0:58:57.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, thanks for coming on this journey with me, Joelle.

0:58:57.160 --> 0:58:59.160
<v Speaker 2>Do you have anything that you'd like to plug here

0:58:59.200 --> 0:58:59.600
<v Speaker 2>at the.

0:59:01.200 --> 0:59:04.200
<v Speaker 3>You know, I please come find me on the Internet.

0:59:04.240 --> 0:59:07.120
<v Speaker 3>It's where I live. I love hearing from you guys.

0:59:07.560 --> 0:59:10.720
<v Speaker 3>You can find me actual money. Get j O E

0:59:10.960 --> 0:59:13.320
<v Speaker 3>L L E M O N I q u E.

0:59:14.400 --> 0:59:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Hell yeah, Ian you got anything.

0:59:18.120 --> 0:59:21.320
<v Speaker 4>I'll just say, listen to some cool Zone media podcasts.

0:59:21.440 --> 0:59:24.640
<v Speaker 4>Internet Hate Machine with Bridget Todd is our newest shows

0:59:25.240 --> 0:59:29.320
<v Speaker 4>now and check that out wherever you listen to your podcasts.

0:59:30.040 --> 0:59:31.040
<v Speaker 4>And yeah, that's all for me.

0:59:31.440 --> 0:59:33.840
<v Speaker 2>I'll just say that Internet Hate Machine is my favorite

0:59:33.920 --> 0:59:36.920
<v Speaker 2>way of keeping up on the Internet gossip, and it

0:59:37.000 --> 0:59:40.160
<v Speaker 2>is like not like like gossip about the Internet out

0:59:40.200 --> 0:59:41.800
<v Speaker 2>or whatever. It's really good. You should listen to it,

0:59:41.800 --> 0:59:42.000
<v Speaker 2>That's what.

0:59:42.160 --> 0:59:45.200
<v Speaker 4>It's really good. It's super timely, especially with what's going

0:59:45.240 --> 0:59:48.160
<v Speaker 4>on in our current Internet landscape.

0:59:48.280 --> 0:59:52.440
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, the episode where we talk about Twitter and

0:59:52.960 --> 0:59:55.600
<v Speaker 3>the Elon Musk change over if you still need to

0:59:55.680 --> 0:59:56.680
<v Speaker 3>catch up on that.

0:59:57.720 --> 1:00:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that one's fun. What a fun time we're all facing.

1:00:03.920 --> 1:00:04.200
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

1:00:04.280 --> 1:00:05.880
<v Speaker 2>The thing that I would like to plug is a

1:00:05.920 --> 1:00:09.400
<v Speaker 2>diversity of tactics and learning to accept that not everyone

1:00:09.440 --> 1:00:10.920
<v Speaker 2>is going to agree with you, but that we can

1:00:11.000 --> 1:00:14.320
<v Speaker 2>still figure some things out together. That's what I want

1:00:14.320 --> 1:00:20.120
<v Speaker 2>to shout out here at the end. YAY community all right,

1:00:20.320 --> 1:00:28.800
<v Speaker 2>see everyone next week. Goodbye, bye bye.

1:00:30.360 --> 1:00:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1:00:32.920 --> 1:00:36.000
<v Speaker 1>cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1:00:36.160 --> 1:00:39.439
<v Speaker 1>visit our website foolzonemedia dot com or check us out

1:00:39.520 --> 1:00:42.400
<v Speaker 1>on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1:00:42.560 --> 1:00:44.160
<v Speaker 2>You get your podcasts.