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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,

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Speaker 2: the podcast that it was in reruns during the holidays.

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Speaker 2: But I bet you'll still like this episode even though

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Speaker 2: I recorded a little while ago, because I think that

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Speaker 2: the way that people look back and think about the

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Speaker 2: old civil rights movement, like, wow, everything was so peaceful

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Speaker 2: all the time, Well it's not true. I mean, some

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Speaker 2: stuff was peaceful, and nonviolence is an important part of

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Speaker 2: political strategy, but it's certainly not the only thing that happened.

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Speaker 2: And so we're going to do a rerun about the

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Speaker 2: armed civil rights movement. I hope you enjoy it. Hello,

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Speaker 2: and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, the

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Speaker 2: podcast that is totally not advocating for people to do crime,

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Speaker 2: despite being a podcast almost exclusively about people who did crime.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host, Margaret Hildrey, and our guest this week

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Speaker 2: is the one and only Joel Monique. Well, how are

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Speaker 2: you doing on this day of the week that is

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Speaker 2: totally a different day of the week and not just

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Speaker 2: the same day that we recorded the previous.

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Speaker 3: It is not still great. I'm going to guess that

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Speaker 3: it's colder because it's a week later into December, and

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Speaker 3: I will say. I'm good, still bundled up in the

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Speaker 3: sweaters and under blankets. It's just making it through the

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Speaker 3: winter time.

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Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent. And our producer Sophia is out this week

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Speaker 2: because she's on a top secret undercover mission into a

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Speaker 2: land of evil. But our audio engineer Ian is now

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Speaker 2: our producer, Ian, how are you.

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Speaker 4: I'm doing good, Margaret. I'm just honored to be on Mike.

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Speaker 4: I'm just happy to be here. You know, it's you know,

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Speaker 4: sometimes people don't like to know how the sausage is made,

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Speaker 4: but here I am ruining the surprise. Yeay.

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Speaker 2: And our audio engineers of course, Ian. And our theme

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Speaker 2: music was done for the show by the wonderful musician Unwoman,

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Speaker 2: which sometimes people mishear me as saying a woman, but

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Speaker 2: no it is not. I mean, yes, it is a woman,

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Speaker 2: but her name is Unwoman, and you can find her

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Speaker 2: music wherever you listen to music. I don't know whatever.

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Speaker 2: So this is part two of a two part series

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Speaker 2: on the armed civil rights movement of the nineteen sixty South,

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Speaker 2: and it probably won't make much sense if you don't

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Speaker 2: listen to part one. I would never tell you what

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Speaker 2: to do, dear listener, but you might want to consider

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Speaker 2: listening to part one before part two if you haven't

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Speaker 2: done that yet. Where we last left our heroes, they

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Speaker 2: were organizers, just desegregating places and registering voters. But just

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Speaker 2: as heroic were the armed black families that kept guard

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Speaker 2: over them as they slept and drove back clansmen with

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Speaker 2: rifles and shotguns and revolvers and apparently molotovs. And some

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Speaker 2: of these people are about to get organized, and that's

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Speaker 2: what we're gonna talk about today. You all excited, You're ready.

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Speaker 3: I'm thrilled. This is like a boom moment for me.

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Speaker 3: Let's hear about the start of organization.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the hard parts. The first organized group of black

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Speaker 2: defenders of the civil rights movement that I was able

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Speaker 2: to find was paradoxically under the name the NAACP. Amazing that, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, who

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Speaker 2: show up sometimes on this show, not just this episode,

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Speaker 2: but other shows. Because a ton of rad people have

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Speaker 2: done work with the NAACP over the years, but during

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Speaker 2: the Civil rights era they were not known as one

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Speaker 2: of the more radical organizations. They still did really not

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Speaker 2: trying to say anything negative about them here but like

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Speaker 2: you know, they're not known as like in the way

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Speaker 2: that Snick and Core were as like pushing the envelope, right,

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Speaker 2: But a chapter of them in Monroe, North Carolina went rogue. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: go on, yeah, go on, all right, So you can

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Speaker 2: trace this back to nineteen forty six. There was a

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Speaker 2: black vet named Benny Montgomery who came home from World

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Speaker 2: War Two. He had steel plate in his skull because

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Speaker 2: he got wounded while, you know, stopping the fucking Nazis.

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Speaker 2: His white employer back in North Carolina treated him like shit.

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Speaker 2: I presume was a racist based on everything else that

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Speaker 2: happened and this whole thing. They got into an argument

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Speaker 2: and Benny slid his boss's throat in the resulting fight.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know, he stopped the Nazis and he

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Speaker 2: killed a racist white boss. I've got no problem with

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Speaker 2: Benny Montgomery so far.

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Speaker 3: Benny's really for me, sounds like a hero to me.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: The State of North Carolina did not find Benny to

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Speaker 2: be a hero for this particular action, and they executed him.

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Speaker 2: Of course, it should have been the end of it.

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Speaker 2: And it was like God and the way it's sometimes

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Speaker 2: written about it presents it as if it's like this,

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Speaker 2: like great justice because he didn't get lynched like the

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Speaker 2: Klan tried to before he was executed. They tried to

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Speaker 2: drag him out of the jail. But it's like, but

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Speaker 2: justice prevailed and he wasn't lynched. He was instead just

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's lynch by the state instead whatever.

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Speaker 3: Like, yeah, okay, people, that is a wild thing that

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Speaker 3: continues to happen today. We can look at brittany crime,

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Speaker 3: You's case where people are like, well, she did a crime,

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Speaker 3: so now she has to go to jail. And I

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Speaker 3: just if you hear people in your surf, I imagine

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Speaker 3: if you listen to this podcast, you hopefully don't have

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Speaker 3: those thoughts, but if you, you know, are surrounded by

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Speaker 3: people who are like that, you know, maybe just remind

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Speaker 3: them we don't necessarily need prisons. Yeah, I mean, just

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Speaker 3: imagine a world where we don't have to lock up

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Speaker 3: people for petty fucking crimes like having very small amounts

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Speaker 3: of lead. It's ridiculous, Yeah, ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Ugh, So so Benny, Yeah, hebe gets executed. This should

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Speaker 2: have been the end of it. But the clan, they're

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Speaker 2: salty that they they're also like this is grave injustice,

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Speaker 2: that the state is the one who killed him instead

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Speaker 2: of us.

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Speaker 3: Oh today, okay, so.

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Speaker 2: They try to lynch his dead body.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: They tell the funeral home director that if they don't

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Speaker 2: hand the body over to them, they'll kill him. This

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Speaker 2: doesn't spoiler, this doesn't happen, doesn't get their way. A

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Speaker 2: bunch of black Vets met up at a barber shop

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Speaker 2: and they were like, no, we can't let that happen.

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Speaker 2: So almost forty Vets with their service rifles stood guard

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Speaker 2: outside the funeral home. The Klan like drove by, ready

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Speaker 2: to like go be evil, and they took one look

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Speaker 2: at the service rifles, which included Benny's own rifle, which

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Speaker 2: I think is yeah, and the Klan just noped out

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Speaker 2: of there. They were like we're gone.

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Speaker 3: Goodbye, plan horrible people. Westboro back is ass bitches.

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Speaker 4: Like almost like every time they faced any kind of opposition,

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Speaker 4: they're like, oh wait, never mind, yeah they can fight back.

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Speaker 3: Oh sorry, yeah, suddenly uninterested, like I'm sure there's counterexamples,

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Speaker 3: but I haven't found them yet. I hope you never

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Speaker 3: find them.

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Speaker 2: I know you never locate I know. So the local

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Speaker 2: NAACP in Monroe had started out like a lot of

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Speaker 2: NAACP chapters. It's sort of a social club for middle

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Speaker 2: class black folks. But in the nineteen fifties, the Klan

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Speaker 2: started fucking with them in Monroe, and most of the

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Speaker 2: NAACP members left the organization because they're like, oh this

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Speaker 2: this is hard and scary. But a few of them remained,

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Speaker 2: and two of them remained were vets, and they immediately

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Speaker 2: started recruiting the working class to the NAACP. And they

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Speaker 2: did something that no other NAACP was doing. And this

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Speaker 2: one's kind of funny. They formed a chapter of the NRA. Officially,

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Speaker 2: they like wrote the NRA, and we were like, we

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Speaker 2: would like to form a chapter called the Monroe Rifle

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Speaker 2: Club or the Blackguards as they called themselves or get

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Speaker 2: called what. Okay, I is the only story I've found

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Speaker 2: so far at any of my research where the NRA

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Speaker 2: affiliated people did anything cool.

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Speaker 3: But wow, I want you to go back and look

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Speaker 3: at your history, because you're not out here defending black

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Speaker 3: people using stand their ground, you know, like the girls

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Speaker 3: who were being trafficked and then shoot their abusers. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, maybe get back into your old hat. Amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, totally. And I think there's like within the

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Speaker 2: sort of a political gun culture, there are people who

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Speaker 2: are like, oh, it's cool when people fight against depression.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're not clearly the dominant arc of the

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Speaker 2: NRA or gun culture in the United States. So you

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Speaker 2: now have the blackguards. In nineteen fifty seven in Monroe,

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Speaker 2: North Carolina, a kid drowned in the unsafe swimming holes

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Speaker 2: that the local black kids were forced to use because

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Speaker 2: the pool was segregated. So the vice president of the

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Speaker 2: NAACP was a guy named doctor Perry. He was one

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Speaker 2: of the kind of holdovers from when it was middle class,

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Speaker 2: but he was one of the ones he rules, and

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Speaker 2: he decides to stay just sit in at the white

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Speaker 2: only pool, and he organizes a bunch of kids who

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Speaker 2: go and like wait in their swim trunks and towels,

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Speaker 2: like waiting to be let into the pool. And of

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Speaker 2: course they're not let into the pool. And the fucking

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Speaker 2: bravery of those kids, it's like, it's hard to wrap

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Speaker 2: my head around how brave those kids are to go

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Speaker 2: stand there and they're swim trunks to tells this is

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Speaker 2: and this is three years before the sin in movement.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's uh, kids are I feel like kids are

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Speaker 3: aware but naive about end results, right, and so they

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Speaker 3: have this idea of like especially I think you know,

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Speaker 3: as a black kid for my generation, I can't speak

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Speaker 3: on this generation too much, but like, the idea of

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Speaker 3: these are your rights and you should be allowed allowed

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Speaker 3: access to them is a thing that we were taught

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Speaker 3: a lot, and so you know, we would do bold

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Speaker 3: ass things as an adult, you know, I may not do.

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Speaker 2: And so can you tell me any of those legally stories?

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Speaker 3: So can I tell you that story? I will say

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Speaker 3: in broad in broad strokes. Prop eight was happening, and

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Speaker 3: we were marching a lot. This is like my early

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Speaker 3: college years. You know. There may have been some verbal

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Speaker 3: harassments against some armed government officials as we were moving

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Speaker 3: through the streets that you know today I would not

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Speaker 3: definitely not do. But we were angry, and we were young,

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Speaker 3: and we were absolutely willing to tell people about themselves.

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Speaker 2: And what they should do with grant.

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Speaker 3: It's not as brave as these kids because we were surrounded.

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Speaker 3: There are thousands of us in the street. I think

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Speaker 3: it's incredibly brave to be in the fifties standing outside

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Speaker 3: of pool. Yeah, you know, without it sounds like any

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Speaker 3: weapons or and there's some trump'son towels. It's an amazing,

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Speaker 3: an amazing decision they made.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't have any record of anything bad

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Speaker 2: happening to them as a result of it. And so

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Speaker 2: the Klan they fucking hate doctor Perry. They already didn't

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Speaker 2: like him, vice president of WACP. He's black and middle

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Speaker 2: class and educated. He's throwing down with the working class.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't scared of them. And also he was Catholic,

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Speaker 2: and the Klan has this whole fucking thing against the Catholics.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that is a full plate of things that the

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Speaker 3: KKK is not about.

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Speaker 2: No, no, not at all. So they the Klan got

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Speaker 2: together their show of force on October fifth, nineteen fifty seven.

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Speaker 2: They had a big old rally with a big old

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Speaker 2: cross burning, and then they drove an armed motorcade a

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Speaker 2: doctor Perry's house. They were gonna stop doctor Perry once

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Speaker 2: and for all. But doctor Perry and the Blackguards they

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Speaker 2: didn't scare, and they knew the Klan was coming, and

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Speaker 2: they were they were vents.

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Speaker 3: Oh shit, they've seen combat before, Okay.

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Speaker 4: So they.

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Speaker 2: Instead of a scared middle class doctor hiding in this house,

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Speaker 2: they found sandbag fortifications with automatic weapons.

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Speaker 4: Oh hell yeah, like in describe that they were about

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Speaker 4: that action, like they were, Yeah, they wanted all the smoke.

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Speaker 4: I love it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the clan shows up and they start shooting. The

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Speaker 2: clan starts shooting at the sand bag fortifications because they're

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Speaker 2: not known for their intelligence. The Blackguard fire back, and

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Speaker 2: they intentionally fire into the ground because they they it

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Speaker 2: was a defensive gesture, right, and it was meant to

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Speaker 2: scare the clan off, and it worked. The Klan stopped

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Speaker 2: their raids, not just on Doctor Perry, but just in

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Speaker 2: the area. Just the Clan's just done.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: The next day, the city council bans clan motorcades because

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Speaker 2: they're like, oh, this is we can't have this, this

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Speaker 2: will go bad.

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Speaker 3: I love this news.

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Speaker 4: This is wonderful. That's one thing about the clan. They're

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Speaker 4: consistent there, you know, And I love it.

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Speaker 2: I know, because I mean, what is racism but this

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Speaker 2: ideology of fear, it's this true. I want to be

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Speaker 2: in charge all the time of everyone, and everyone wants

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Speaker 2: to do what I say, and I'm afraid that that

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Speaker 2: will change.

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Speaker 4: It's like a perceived threat to your power, your established

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Speaker 4: you know, societal standing, and that scares the shit out

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Speaker 4: of people.

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Speaker 3: It's also its weird irrational. I want to stress that word, irrational,

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Speaker 3: fear that if there's equity, black people will try to

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Speaker 3: turn the tables and enslave white people, which is a

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Speaker 3: thing we hear them talk about all the damn time.

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Speaker 3: It's just like, I just want y'all to know, slavery

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Speaker 3: sounds hard like for both people. It's not exhausting. I'm

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Speaker 3: not trying to force people to stay or brutalize their

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Speaker 3: body like nobody wants this except you, or trying to

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Speaker 3: make sure we don't backslide, okay yet be black and

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Speaker 3: left alone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it seems, you know, it's very obvious growing up,

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Speaker 2: I mean, having decent politics like this seems very obvious

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Speaker 2: to me. You know, I really struggle to imagine the

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Speaker 2: mindset of these like nineteen fifties white racists and like,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, they fucking you're talking. It's exactly that they're

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Speaker 2: afraid of fucking turning the tables, like whatever, fucking cowards.

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Speaker 2: So the local leader of the Monroe ANDAACP was a

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Speaker 2: man named Robert Williams. He later wrote a book called

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Speaker 2: Negroes with Guns and as influential on the Black Panthers,

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Speaker 2: and he wrote in nineteen fifty nine, I wish to

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Speaker 2: make it clear that I do not advocate violence for

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Speaker 2: its own sake or for the sake of reprisals against whites.

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Speaker 2: Nor am I against the passive resistance advocated by Reverend

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Speaker 2: Martin Luther King and others. My only difference with doctor

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Speaker 2: King is that I believe in flexibility in the freedom struggle.

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Speaker 2: Robert had a rough couple of years as a result

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Speaker 2: of his advocacy for armed defense, as like one of

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Speaker 2: the first prominent black p people, being like, we actually

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Speaker 2: are completely fine with using violence as necessary to defend ourselves.

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Speaker 2: The NAACCP disavowed him, like canceled the Monroe chapter over

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Speaker 2: the issue of violence. And then he was framed almost

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Speaker 2: certainly by the Feds. It's like not proven, but we've

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Speaker 2: all fucking read about co intel pro and shit. He

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Speaker 2: was framed for kidnapping a white couple and he had

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Speaker 2: to flee the country. Him and his wife had to

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Speaker 2: flee the country for about a decade. Later, he was

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Speaker 2: found innocent at trial and the white couple had been pressured,

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Speaker 2: presumably by the FEDS, to lie and claim that he

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Speaker 2: had kidnapped them. So that's the first organized black armed

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Speaker 2: civil rights defense organization I know about. Wasn't the last,

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Speaker 2: wasn't the largest, but it was the first that I found.

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Speaker 2: And they're cool. But I'm gonna tell you about another one,

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Speaker 2: and this one doesn't have a name. This one is

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Speaker 2: in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. The Klan was running rampant until a

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Speaker 2: group of about one hundred or so local folks organized

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Speaker 2: a nameless, militarily structured, semi secret society of Armed Community Defenders.

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Speaker 3: Okay, can we just pause right there. Here's what I

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Speaker 3: love about everything you just said. They said, don't give

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Speaker 3: it a fucking name. Don't let them be able to

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Speaker 3: search us. They can't find us if they don't know

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Speaker 3: who we are. Keep it secret, don't talk about it

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Speaker 3: in public. It was definitely fight club rules. I feel

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Speaker 3: I'm inferring. I really appreciate this approach to it. That's amazing.

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Speaker 2: No, yeah, you're you're you're really onto what they were

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Speaker 2: onto like they and they came from all walks of life.

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Speaker 2: They were factory workers to businessmen to gang members, which

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Speaker 2: is not the first time. There's two times I talk

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Speaker 2: about in the last episodes that I did about people

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Speaker 2: fighting the clan, about gang members versus the clan. All

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Speaker 2: of them had combat experience, all of them were picked

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Speaker 2: for being trustworthy and of good character. There's like this

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Speaker 2: like intense background check to join this secret society. I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to be like these are the rules that

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Speaker 2: other people should use. But you had to be married,

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Speaker 2: you couldn't be a drunk, and you had to have

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Speaker 2: a reputation for keeping your fucking mouth shut. And I

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Speaker 2: think I think this one was all men. We'll talk

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Speaker 2: about later about when this was and wasn't. And the

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Speaker 2: certainly the decentralized groups included a large number of women,

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Speaker 2: as like you know, a lot of the examples are

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Speaker 2: like the seven year old woman in the shotgun or whatever. Right,

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Speaker 2: But this nameless organization they avoided all press and publicity.

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Speaker 2: And what they did is they set up armed guards

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Speaker 2: a side of activist residents. Like basically if someone would

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Speaker 2: like slow down, they didn't recognize them, they'd be like

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Speaker 2: keep fucking driving, okay. Or sometimes they as people would

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Speaker 2: drive up to places, they would set up a checkpoint

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Speaker 2: and stop them. And if the people couldn't prove why

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Speaker 2: they were there. This is sometimes shoot at the car

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Speaker 2: or whatever. Yeah, like.

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Speaker 4: And uh.

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Speaker 2: And they would also act as bodyguards to the like

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Speaker 2: non violent. Once again, this is tied into the non

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Speaker 2: violence movement. So one white activist talked about how she

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Speaker 2: didn't even know she was being protected until later. People

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Speaker 2: just followed her at a distance, concealed carrying, ready to

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Speaker 2: fight if need be, because people were getting fucking killed

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Speaker 2: for this work. You know, before the Defenders, the Klan

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Speaker 2: had run patrols outside of the activist meetings. They would

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Speaker 2: just like drive by and keep track of who's there

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Speaker 2: or whatever. They got faced down one time and they

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Speaker 2: never returned. On July eighth, nineteen sixty four, a few

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Speaker 2: black teenagers went to a movie theater to test desegregation,

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Speaker 2: and over two hundred white racists were there to attack

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Speaker 2: these few black teenagers. So these secret Defenders showed up

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Speaker 2: with two cars full of armed men, picked the teenagers

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Speaker 2: up and drove them away from the mob. But the

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Speaker 2: klans men were waiting at the entrance to the black

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Speaker 2: neighborhood where they knew that these people would be going right,

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Speaker 2: and they opened fire on the cars. The combat, vets

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Speaker 2: opened fire right the fuck back. The klan went running

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Speaker 2: and the klan kept its head down after that.

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Speaker 3: You know what's interesting, okay m hm. So if we

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Speaker 3: look at police shooting records, they're all over the map.

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Speaker 3: And if they're shooting against like a lot of gangsters

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Speaker 3: of all ilk like don't have they're terrible shooters because

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Speaker 3: you're not doing it frequently. But police, you know, they

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Speaker 3: have to do target practice or whatever, and then they're police,

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Speaker 3: so they're used to drawing their guns or whatever. But

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Speaker 3: going up against military people is an entirely different, game

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Speaker 3: changing scenario. Like you are not prepared for battle the

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Speaker 3: way that they are. And I love the idea.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 3: This I think is something that we're starting to talk

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Speaker 3: about and see more in our popular culture. But the

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Speaker 3: return of World War two vets is a huge impact

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Speaker 3: in the civil rights movement strictly because like, when you

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Speaker 3: understand what it is to be liberated, you actually have

363
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 3: helped liberate cities, you're treated with respect, and then you

364
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,160
Speaker 3: come home and you're expected to, you know, for lack

365
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Speaker 3: of a better word, go back to being a nigga.

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Speaker 3: Like it's really I think empowering to then say you

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Speaker 3: know what, No, we have all of the tools and

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Speaker 3: skills because white America didn't want to go fight this war.

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Speaker 3: Like that is bananas, Like you made the problem worse.

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Speaker 3: You made the problems by not going to fight it yourself.

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Speaker 3: I love this story. This is beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, totally, And like it's not a coincidence to me.

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Speaker 2: I mean, like obviously, like most of the wars the

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Speaker 2: US has gotten involved in have not been good, right,

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Speaker 2: and like I know there's like a critique to be

376
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Speaker 2: made of the good war whatever, but like overall, it

377
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Speaker 2: is good that people went and stop the fucking Nazis

378
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Speaker 2: right where to end.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they had a good time to a stop.

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Speaker 2: The current US wars are not ones that I would

381
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Speaker 2: be like, oh, that's cool, right, But it's still not

382
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Speaker 2: a coincidence that some of the people one of the

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Speaker 2: people who stopped the Colorado maybe two of the people

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Speaker 2: who stopped the Colorado spring shooters were vets.

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Speaker 3: Both of them were vets.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and complicated feelings about all of it, but but

387
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 2: learning how to engage in bad situations is a skill

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Speaker 2: that is useful within our communities.

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Speaker 3: And we've seen a lot of vets. Because I'm vocal

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Speaker 3: about over policing and the fact that the police have

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Speaker 3: been describe themselves as being in combat zones when they're like,

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00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 3: you are not, and if you were, this is not

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Speaker 3: how you'd be allowed to behave if you were part

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Speaker 3: of the military. Get the hell out, And I hopefully

395
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Speaker 3: continue to see arise in that because it should be different.

396
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Speaker 3: And you know, I don't like people playing military like

397
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 3: you either are or you aren't. But to be out

398
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Speaker 3: here in Regalia talking about how you're in an armed

399
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Speaker 3: force when you've never served a day in your life

400
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Speaker 3: is pathetic.

401
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, you're in an armed And then also just

402
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 2: like talking about that being like, so you're in a

403
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: war against the American people, great, awesome, cool, if you're

404
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,199
Speaker 2: in a war against the American people, well, I'm one

405
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 2: of the American you know, like I guess I'm a

406
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 2: I don't even want to say that out loud, but yeah, yeah,

407
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 2: well this actually next one will tie into policing in

408
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 2: a little bit interesting way. The group from this era

409
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 2: that actually, wait, maybe time to tell you instead of

410
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 2: about this group from this era, maybe it's time to

411
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 2: tell you about capitalism and how you can engage in

412
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 2: it and all of us who are on this podcast

413
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 2: like routinely eating food. I'm just going down a limp

414
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 2: speak for you. But I like eating food every day,

415
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 2: delicious addicted to food, and I like eating it. And

416
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 2: I use money for most of my food. My gardene

417
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 2: skills are not quite there yet.

418
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Speaker 3: Yeah, they haven't made it free yet.

419
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say here's the secret, though, I get

420
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: paid whether or not you buy the things from the margaret.

421
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 2: They're not supposed to know. Yeah, buy it or dout?

422
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Speaker 1: All right?

423
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Speaker 2: Ads back from ads, Welcome back from ads. Those are

424
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 2: some good services. It's usually pot When I listened to

425
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 2: Coole Zone shows, I mostly hear ads for other podcasts,

426
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 2: which is actually fine by me. I like podcasts. It's

427
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 2: a recentably big podcast. Yeah, big fan. So we have

428
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Speaker 2: the Unnamed Defenders, and now we're going to talk about

429
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Speaker 2: the group from this era that did all this most

430
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Speaker 2: famously integrated effect. We're going to talk about the Deacons

431
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 2: for Defense and Justice. And it's funny too because I'm like, oh,

432
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Speaker 2: the most famous group about this, Like, I didn't know

433
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 2: about this group until very recently because I just didn't

434
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 2: hear much about the armed component of the nonviolent struggle

435
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 2: because when I was in school, they just taught me

436
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:42,880
Speaker 2: about pacifism. And then when I was like getting into

437
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 2: you know, political radicalism or whatever, I would just mostly

438
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 2: hear about the Black Power era and the Black Panthers

439
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: and the stuff that comes later. But so this sort

440
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 2: of I didn't hear about the Deacons for Defense and Justice.

441
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 3: Nobody talks about the organizers. It's not glamorous, it's not

442
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 3: scary or dangerous or cool. It's just work. But it's

443
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 3: in this sorry, but it's essential work. It's absolutely necessary

444
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 3: work for any of the other things to happen.

445
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 2: No, totally, totally, Well, this one is going to get

446
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 2: a little scary, but it's going to work out for

447
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: most of the people in the story.

448
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 4: Yay.

449
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 2: Jonesborough, Louisiana is a tiny fucking town. About four thousand

450
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 2: people live there in nineteen sixty, not the size of

451
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: town that most people think about very often. The soil

452
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: there was shitty, which meant that there were no plantations there,

453
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: but it was hella segregated and poor. It had a

454
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: huge clan presence, and most people, white or black, worked

455
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: for the paper mill or the chemical factory. There'd been

456
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: an NAACP chapter there in the forties, but Louisiana passed

457
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 2: a law forcing NAACP chapters i think specifically, to disclose

458
00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 2: their memberships because they're racist. And so they changed their

459
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: name from the NAACP to the Jackson Parish Progressive Voters

460
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 2: League in order to not have to give all of

461
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: their names to.

462
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 3: The fuck Sometimes we got to play these games, okay, yeah,

463
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 3: you and coming here being racist, I just got to

464
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 3: outsmart you protect by people that is nuts to be, like, hey,

465
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 3: can we get a hit list please?

466
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh god, yeah, we changed our name. No more NAACP.

467
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 2: This other thing doesn't even mention race. It's just so

468
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 2: happens that everyone who cares about progress in this town.

469
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 3: It's fuck the church claim accepts everybody. So perfect.

470
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. So in nineteen sixty four, the Voting Rights Act

471
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 2: had passed, making all voter registration and all that shit illegal.

472
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 2: But of course nothing changed on the ground in and

473
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: of itself. And so that's what you know, SNICK and

474
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 2: Core and all these other groups were doing was in

475
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 2: some ways okay. So it's like a major part of

476
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 2: US history, especially when it comes to race relations, is

477
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 2: the federal government finally fucking passing some basic human decency laws,

478
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: but then not actually enforcing them or being capable of

479
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 2: enforcing them, depending on the time and whether or not

480
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: they care different places, so people actually have to go

481
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: out and do it right against their own local governments

482
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 2: and their sheriffs and their shit and all that shit.

483
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: Nineteen sixty four jones Burg, Louisiana, almost at Alabama, but

484
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,239
Speaker 2: jones Burg, Louisiana, the Klan is running around being fucked up.

485
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: They burned like four or five black churches, They burned

486
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 2: down a Masonic hall, they burned down a Baptist center,

487
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: and black and white core organizers came to town to work

488
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 2: on voter registration, and they had been invited by the

489
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: local Black Baptist church, and they were housed in a

490
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: house that got called Freedom House that the local community

491
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: fixed up for them, which is like cool and also

492
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 2: has disadvantages. Most of the time organizers would come in

493
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 2: and stay with a family, which gives a certain amount

494
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 2: of protection, but instead the community was able to be like, oh,

495
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: we have this dilapidated house, will fix up for you

496
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 2: and you can all live there. But unfortunately target yeah,

497
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: full of non violent people and non violent people are

498
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 2: alone little bit at risk because they're known to not

499
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 2: be carrying firearms. So as soon as CORR starts coming

500
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 2: to town, students in the area start fighting against segregation,

501
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 2: specifically black students. I don't think the white kids were

502
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 2: super woke. The Klan, of course, was like, what's that

503
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 2: black people voting and having a say and how their

504
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 2: lives are ran There's some of them are swimming in

505
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: public or reading in the library. We can't have that

506
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 2: because that's how they all talk.

507
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 3: Totally, No, that was a spot on.

508
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, creation, thank you. I'm definitely not getting any acting

509
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 2: jobs out of this podcast. But and so they started

510
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: doing more clan shit, and they started harassing the house

511
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 2: and any picket lines that people were forming. And they

512
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 2: first they were like drive by yelling shit at the house,

513
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 2: and then they would drive by shooting guns in the

514
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 2: air at the house, and then they would just drive

515
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: by shooting the house. Right, And since core was nonviolent,

516
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 2: they weren't armed, but a few locals were, including a

517
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: guy known to history with the awesome name Chili Willie Hell. Yes,

518
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 2: Ernest Chili Willy Thomas. I'm actually sort of annoyed most

519
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 2: history books like his name is clearly Chili Willi. That's

520
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 2: why it's in quotes. It's the name he actually wanted

521
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 2: to go by. But most people, most of the history books,

522
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 2: like avoid specifically calling them that. They just call him

523
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: Ernest over or whatever.

524
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 3: Again, listen, if somebody has a joke nickname and it's

525
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: referred to, that gives you so much character, like depiction

526
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: and inspiration, Like you understand, like a you don't fuck

527
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 3: with someone named Chili Willy. Okay, that's under all circumstances,

528
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 3: you do not want to pick a fight, Okay.

529
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 4: But it's also it's like that's what he wanted to

530
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 4: be called. Just call him.

531
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.

532
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: So Chili Willy and a few of his friends start

533
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: hanging out at Freedom House. They're just start sitting on

534
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 2: the porch or shadowing the activists as they move through town. Basically,

535
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 2: the deal was like, y'all could be non violent, that's great.

536
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: Us we're not nonviolent. Well defend you, to quote a

537
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: core organizer Fred Brooks, if we had a picket line.

538
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 2: These guys were standing on the corner on both sides

539
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: of the street. Wherever we went. It was like a caravan.

540
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: These guys in the pickup trucks with these high powered

541
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 2: rifles up in the back. White people didn't mess with us.

542
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: The defenders would come by at night and want to

543
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 2: know what the next day's agenda was. Different ones of

544
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: them took different patrols. We told them. They told us

545
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: we were not to leave the black community without security.

546
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: And to quote another organizer about the impact of the experience,

547
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 2: he's like writing back to the rest of cors, the

548
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 2: concept that we are going to go south and through

549
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: love and patience change the hearts and minds of southern

550
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: whites should be totally disregarded. So some new defenders. So

551
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 2: you have these defenders, right, they don't have a name.

552
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 2: Yet another group of folks want to do it legit

553
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 2: as best as they could. So they go to the

554
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: local as the local high school football coach. His name

555
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: is Frederick Douglas kirkpatri and he goes to the police

556
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: chief and he's like, let me set up an all

557
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 2: volunteer black auxiliary to the police to protect the black

558
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 2: community and core and the police chief went for it.

559
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 2: The black auxillary got no I know you see yeah.

560
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 3: You're like, my mind is melting white.

561
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: Oh it, it's gonna get messy, it's gonna get interesting.

562
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

563
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: No, So that the black auxiliary is given an old

564
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: cop car and handcuffs. You'll be shocked to know the

565
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: close relations between the police and the black community didn't last.

566
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: Chili Willy and the original Defenders, for their part, they

567
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: are not fucking stoked about this, right. They do not

568
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: trust the black cops. They figure these black cops are

569
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: going to do the dirty work for the white cops.

570
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 3: They're all blue.

571
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So that summer, we're still in nineteen sixty four,

572
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 2: some Core organizers get ambushed by the Klan who you

573
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: turned in the middle of the highway to trap the

574
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: Core organizers. But the Core organizers get out of it

575
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: with like sick driving skills. Hell yeah, they like floor

576
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: it and they basically like almost run a clan car

577
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: off the road. I think they almost run someone over.

578
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: Like they get the fuck out of there.

579
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: That's horrifying.

580
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: But the clans people they go and snitch them out

581
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: for their dangerous driving. The clan people go to the

582
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: cops and are like, hey, these Core organizers almost killed

583
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 2: us on the road. You should arrest them. So the

584
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: white chief of police tells one of the black deputies

585
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: go arrest these Corps organizers. The deputy is like, that's

586
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: not what I'm gonna do.

587
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 3: That's not so I have to go back to my

588
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 3: community after this. I don't live. My mom in the

589
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 3: eyes like please don't ask me to do this.

590
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so, you know, deputy's like, well, that's not

591
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: what I'm gonna do. So instead, the black deputies go

592
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: and provide an armed escort to help the Core organizers

593
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: get out of town away from an arrest warrant. Okay,

594
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: come on, and so but they're still like, maybe there's

595
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: something to it, maybe we can still be the Black deputies.

596
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: So then there are ordered to arrest some the Blo

597
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 2: teenagers who are at the swimming pool, and they refused again.

598
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 2: And then the final straw, the Klan drove through the

599
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 2: black part of town with the police escort, throwing out

600
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: leaflets about outside agitators because that's like been the rhetoric

601
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: that the right wing has used forever as being like

602
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: these outside agitators whatever. And Kirkpatrick is finally like, oh yeah,

603
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: and the Klan have a police escort as they're driving

604
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 2: through the black community throwing this out. And so the

605
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 2: deputies and Kirkpatrick are like never mind. Specifically, he told

606
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: the chief of police that if the clan convoy ever

607
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: comes back through town, quote, there was going to be

608
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 2: some killing going on.

609
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 3: I thought it was gonna be poetic, like, I just

610
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 3: want to let you know, some murder will happen.

611
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: You have to kill people, because I'm gonna make some

612
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: if this happens amazing. After this, the two groups, Kirkpatrick's

613
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: deputies and Chili Willi's defender, they feel all right with

614
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: each other now, and the deputies proved that they weren't

615
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 2: going to be pawns for the white power structure.

616
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 3: Good for you, deputies, And.

617
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: As a shit heated up, more and more black defenders

618
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: started showing up, and the spirit of we're not going

619
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 2: to fucking put up with this was spreading throughout the town,

620
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: and not just the defenders. At one point, some clansmen

621
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 2: tried to burn across in one of the reverend's yards,

622
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: only to be scared off by the reverend's wife, who

623
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 2: started shooting at them with a rifle. Yeah yeah, it

624
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 2: love it. And once again, majority of these defenders were

625
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: vets World War II, in the Korean War vets, and

626
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: they skewed at older than the activists they were protecting.

627
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: They also had strict membership requirements. Everyone had to be

628
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: committed to defense only. Everyone had to be committed to

629
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: keeping a cool head about them. And then kind of famously,

630
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 2: they weren't ideological. A lot of the stuff that comes later,

631
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 2: for better and worse, is ideological, right in different ways.

632
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 2: These people people were not socialists, they were not communists,

633
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: they weren't anything as as a group. Individuals within them

634
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 2: were all kinds of different things, I'm sure, including conservatives,

635
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: including liberals, and their ideology, as far as I can tell,

636
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 2: was basically like we shouldn't let people fuck up the

637
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 2: black community and murder civil rights activists.

638
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 3: Well, I think also, you know, to your point, if

639
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 3: they're all slightly older than the people they're protecting, there's

640
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 3: absolutely like a generational thing of like, you know, our

641
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 3: grandparents were enslaved, perhaps some of their parents were enslaved.

642
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 3: This is liberation at a next level. And what we're

643
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 3: not going to do is allow you to kill our

644
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 3: young without putting up a fight first. Yeah, and I

645
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 3: think it's a really beautiful intergenerational play of like, Okay,

646
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 3: you guys have this vision for the future, you go

647
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 3: out and claim that we'll do our best to keep

648
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 3: you safe while you do that. I think that's really beautiful.

649
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: No, that is so fucking beautiful and that's so accurate.

650
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 2: That's exactly what's happening here, and it like, wow, I

651
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 2: care about that a lot. I talk sometimes about, like

652
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 2: you know, in the trans community, about how like oh, well,

653
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 2: like I'm I'm not that old, but I'm like, you know,

654
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: I'm about forty, and I'm like, you know, do anything

655
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 2: to protect the like young trans kids, right, and like

656
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: you know who don't appreciate it, you know, like and

657
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 2: like I that I don't want to draw a direct

658
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 2: one to one struggle.

659
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,479
Speaker 3: Ye, like listen as somebody who's queer, like there isn't

660
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 3: absolutely a direct correlation between communities that are actively being haunted, Yeah, right,

661
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 3: like literally hunted and and and then you know, legislated against,

662
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 3: which is an entirely different mind fuck of of how

663
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 3: do I just actively live my life in society without

664
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 3: being fucked by the government that's supposed to be protecting me.

665
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 3: And how we how we treat are young you know,

666
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 3: we want them as much as young people often can't

667
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 3: appreciate what's being done for them because their worldview is different, right,

668
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 3: Like they're, oh, we need to be in the streets. Oh,

669
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 3: we're going to be vocal. We're going to make the

670
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 3: change that you guys couldn't accomplish happen, Which is a

671
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 3: thing I hear. You know, a lot of young black activists,

672
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 3: or even before they're activists more more, you know, as

673
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 3: they're beginning their journey into activism, I'll say often they're like, well,

674
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 3: we're not going to be like you be like.

675
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 4: Chill.

676
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 3: Okay, we find won a lot of battles, but with

677
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 3: just that, it's not done yet. Yeah, but we will

678
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 3: still no matter how you feel, we don't want you

679
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 3: to be hurt. Yeh, in the same ways we were hurt,

680
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 3: in the same way we saw our elders hurt. Yeah. Yeah,

681
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 3: I mean it's generationally, it's the only thing I think

682
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 3: that a lot of marginalized communities can do is do

683
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 3: their best to build a wall of protection around the

684
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 3: next gener coming up, so hopefully they can get a

685
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 3: little bit further. I think there's a direct correlation.

686
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 2: No, and that that makes so much sense in it.

687
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 2: I think it you know, if one of the main

688
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 2: themes of this episode is about how two different strategies

689
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 2: can work together. In this case, it's non violence and

690
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 2: self defense. You know that they like in a similar way,

691
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 2: the like you carry this further, but we will stand

692
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 2: here and protect you as you do it, Like here

693
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 2: are all the resources that we have acquired, that we

694
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: have built up so that you can do this thing. No,

695
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 2: that's really I really like that. And I guess that

696
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 2: what Ala Baker was doing, you know, by like being

697
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: the mentor to snick without like and even if her

698
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 2: main advice was you all should figure out what you

699
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 2: want to do and don't listen to the charismatic leaders

700
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: who tell you that you should do what they wanted

701
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 2: you to do.

702
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 3: I love it, Like I reminds me a lot of

703
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 3: what Rose Park is doing in her later years, you know,

704
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 3: also like being a symbol of this one very specific

705
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 3: and vital movement, but then also you know, actively working

706
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 3: behind the scenes to help support this next generation as

707
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 3: they continued the fight. Yeah, I mean being boots on

708
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 3: the ground talking to be like she she's so much

709
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 3: larger than that one moment. But again, didn't bother to

710
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 3: try and take up space. That wasn't that was meant

711
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 3: for the people and not for an individual. Yeah, it's

712
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 3: so selfless this week, but the people who are doing

713
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 3: it right and it's just incredibly impressive.

714
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally. And I you know, one of the

715
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 2: things I struggle with on this show is that I'm like, oh,

716
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: I'm talking about cool people, but I don't believe in

717
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 2: like heroes. I believe in like role models, or I

718
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 2: believe in like respecting the work people have done, you know,

719
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 2: and respecting these stories. Not so that we can be like, oh, well,

720
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 2: I'm not as cool as that person. I'll never do anything,

721
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: but instead so that people can know like we are all.

722
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 2: You know, this person wasn't like, you know, I doubt

723
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 2: when Ella Baker first started, Elbaker was like, I'm the

724
00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 2: one who's gonna change all this shit just did. But

725
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 2: it was in front of her, you know, I don't know.

726
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, she's got to the work. Yeah just started.

727
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 3: She was like, no, this has to be different, and

728
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 3: it's Yeah, it'll be interesting going forward how we as

729
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 3: a society manage our heroes. I think, particularly with the

730
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 3: rise of social media, we're seeing a decline in celebrity. Yeah,

731
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 3: right there, we don't have you're Michael Jackson's where people

732
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 3: are fainting just passing them in the street. They're like,

733
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 3: oh my god, I'm in the vicinity of this person, right,

734
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 3: And I think celebrity is going to become to some degree.

735
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 3: I think I think also have popular people that were

736
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,919
Speaker 3: interested in following their stories. But I think that era

737
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 3: of hero icon worship is we're moving past it slowly.

738
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Instead, what we should be worshiping is uh, potatoes, Yeah,

739
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 2: potatoes and whatever. Literally whatever. The first ad you hear

740
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: once we cut to ads is should be your new God.

741
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 3: Awesome. I can't wait to figure out where any god is.

742
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: I hope it's not the Highway State patrol or gold

743
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 2: or one of the other man.

744
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 3: Meaning and evil and what you're really worshiping is your

745
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 3: fear of that.

746
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's some ads aka your new gods. Okay, we

747
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 2: are back. And we were talking about how Chili Willy

748
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 2: and Frederick Douglass are getting together, and it was actually

749
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: this person who was ideologically not an ideologically convinced white

750
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 2: core organizer, who was very into non violence, was kind

751
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 2: of the one who was like, no, you all need

752
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 2: to sit down and actually have these meetings and figure

753
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: out what you're doing. His name is Charlie Fenton. He

754
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: spent most of his summer in jail and then he

755
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 2: came to Jonesborough and he was super ideologically committed to nonviolence,

756
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 2: but he he quickly realized that the two things went

757
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 2: very well together, that building a non violence resistance movement

758
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 2: in Durance Jonesborough required the work of these defenders, and

759
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: so he was like, hey, maybe you all should have

760
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: some structure. And so in November nineteen sixty four, the

761
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 2: two groups met up in the Masonic Hall and they

762
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: formed a protective association. The core organizer wasn't part of it. Fortunately,

763
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: he was like, hey, maybe I'll meet up and then

764
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: dipped out, which is good. That is what he should

765
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: have done. On January fifth, nineteen sixty five, they formally

766
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 2: incorporated with a name. They were the Deacons for Defense

767
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 2: and Justice. And what's another thing that I think is

768
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 2: really cool. The two founders, Chili William and Kirkpatrick. They

769
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 2: didn't become the leaders. The president was another one of

770
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 2: the defenders, the vice president another one of the deputies.

771
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 2: The founders stayed part of it, but they didn't take

772
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: control of it, and they set up a structure as

773
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 2: really interesting to me. There's members pay dues of two

774
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 2: dollars a month, which is basically pooling money for ammunition.

775
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 2: Everyone provided their own rifles, and they set up four

776
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 2: membership tiers, which wasn't like a hierarchy of command. They

777
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 2: had a command structure, but it's unrelated when talking about

778
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 2: you had your core group of dues paying activists, and

779
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: then a broader group of people who sometimes paid dues,

780
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: and then you had an even broader group of reinforcements

781
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 2: who could be called upon in time of need. And

782
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 2: then you had a fourth tier, which was basically like, look,

783
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: if you're like doing really good shit, you want to

784
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: call yourself a deacon. That's chill, And that seems like

785
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 2: a really smart way to run a community defense organization

786
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: that acknowledges that not everyone is going to make it

787
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 2: the center of their lives. Right.

788
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 3: It sounds like radical acceptance, like come as you are,

789
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 3: Like if you want to be all in, great, if

790
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 3: you just kind of want to hang around and see

791
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 3: if that's about help, cool, We just accept you as

792
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 3: you are, just be about the mission.

793
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

794
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. At first it was more or less all men,

795
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 2: except some one or two women who were helping on

796
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 2: an organizational level. Slowly, more women started becoming involved, especially

797
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 2: as Core's influence rubbed off on it, because Core was

798
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: actually fairly actively gender integrated. And Kirkpatrick, the guy who

799
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: had been a deputy, he got fired from the high

800
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 2: school for starting the Deacons, which led to the deacons

801
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 2: first conflict with the authorities. Students at that school started

802
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: picketing because of his dismissal and for black control of

803
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 2: black schools, which stands out from the broader civil rights

804
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 2: movement at the time, which was much more focused on desegregation,

805
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 2: whereas in this case these students were focused on black autonomy.

806
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 2: It is a fairly major tension that was going to

807
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 2: emerge more clearly in a couple of years. But the

808
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 2: kids are picketing their high school and firefighters show up

809
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: ready to hose them down right because they're being fucks.

810
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 3: It's the good use of the fire department, super good

811
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 3: use of water. Yeah, aces job everyone.

812
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 2: Well, the deacons staunch conservative conservationists. They take firing positions

813
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 2: and say to that, to the fire fighters. Quote, if

814
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 2: you turn those water hoses on those kids, there's going

815
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 2: to be some blood out here today.

816
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 3: Okay, again, just not mixing the words up, just letting

817
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 3: you know immediately, don't fuck around.

818
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: It's just what will happen. And the firefighters.

819
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 3: Left goodbye again, we say, because they're just walking around

820
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 3: so ridiculous.

821
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 2: And the deacons, after they win this fight, they get popular.

822
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 2: A whole new group of people start joining the civil

823
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 2: rights movement, folks who hadn't been attracted to the more

824
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 2: middle class sensibilities of the older groups, and nor the

825
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 2: people who hadn't been attracted to the specifically youth nonviolent spirit.

826
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 2: You get the sort of like third basically the people

827
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 2: who are like, oh shit, okay, yeah, this is the

828
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 2: tactic that appeals to us.

829
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 3: It works. I bet it was the response because you

830
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 3: when you hear non violence, you're like, I'm not about

831
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 3: to be in the streets getting my ass whopped. Like

832
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 3: it just does not sound like it's not appealing at

833
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 3: least to me as an individual anyway. I understand the

834
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 3: yeah behind doing it, but the peel of like and

835
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 3: now we're just gonna allow ourselves to be be as

836
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 3: a showing of like what happens to us anyway is right, God,

837
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 3: it's so brief. But then you know this idea of like,

838
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 3: oh no, actually you can be armed, and we helped

839
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 3: protect and save kids. Now those water hoses break bones,

840
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 3: like it's really dangerous. That's incredible. Yeah. I could definitely

841
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 3: see just regular community folks being like, oh, okay, we

842
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 3: have a system now.

843
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And So there's another mill town in Louisiana.

844
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 2: It's the opposite side of Louisiana. It feels like three

845
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 2: hundred miles away or some shit. It's called Bogolusa, and

846
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 2: it was one of the worst hot beds of clan

847
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 2: activity in the in the country. It had the most

848
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: clansmen per capita anywhere in Louisiana, which is an impressive

849
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 2: state to have the most clansmen per capita. In klansmen

850
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 2: held office. They had enough power that when President lynd

851
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 2: And Johnson sent a special aid to go give a

852
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 2: talk about desegregation, he wasn't able to speak. The President's

853
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: fucking aid like. The event was shut down by burning

854
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 2: crosses and angry racists. They went out and passed the

855
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 2: clans people went out and passed handbills to every white

856
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 2: family in town saying if you show up to this meeting,

857
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: we will kill you. Where there's strong repression, there's strong resistance.

858
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: Black farmers in the area already had a very strong

859
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 2: They had a lot of advantages the black folks from

860
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: a strategic point of view, they had two things going

861
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 2: for them. The rural nearby area. The black farmers in

862
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 2: that area largely owned their own land, which made them

863
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,439
Speaker 2: substantially sort of sharecropping or anything like that, so they're

864
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 2: much more resistant against economic repression. And then black workers

865
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 2: in the town were largely incorporated into a few different unions,

866
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: and therefore they had a lot of experience organizing. And

867
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 2: so for decades the NAACP had prevented the clan from

868
00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 2: purging black voters from the roles. So that town they

869
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 2: invite some core activists white some white core activists to

870
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 2: come to town and house them in a black home.

871
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 2: The clan shows up at the house, but so did

872
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 2: armed Black Towns people. The Klan fucked off, as is

873
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 2: their want. The core organizers tried to drive out of town,

874
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 2: but they were followed by an angry mob and a car,

875
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 2: and so they took refuge in a black cafe where

876
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 2: the same scene repeated. Angry fucks showed up and started

877
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 2: trying to surround the cafe, but so did armed defenders,

878
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 2: and the klan fucked off again, and the basically the

879
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 2: organizers escorted home out of town by an armed caravan

880
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 2: of defenders. One of the organizers later he said, I

881
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 2: thought I was a pacifist, but then I realized I

882
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:47,359
Speaker 2: wasn't anymore. That's not a direct quote. Sorry, I said

883
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 2: that in my direct quote voice, but that's my paraphrase voice.

884
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: And so Bogolusa formed the second Deacons chapter after that event.

885
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: By May twenty third, nineteen sixty five, the mayor of

886
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:07,720
Speaker 2: bogolu So repealed all segregation mandates. And wow, yeah.

887
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 3: Wow, I'm just trying to think of, like, that's such

888
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 3: a fast turnaround for a space that has numbers, which

889
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 3: I think would be, you know, a factor in the

890
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 3: speed in which you'd be able to desegregate a space

891
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,720
Speaker 3: violence where or the threat of violence works.

892
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: I get like stopping other people's violence in this case,

893
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: you know, because it's stopping letting their violence work. And

894
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 2: again it's funny because it's like, I'm not ideologically committed

895
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 2: to nonviolence. I actually and I find it strategically interesting,

896
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 2: but not It's not a strategy that I've ever personally

897
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 2: particularly employed. Sure, but like it's still interesting to me.

898
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: It's within the tool the toolbox of activist tools, you know.

899
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 2: But when the national director of CORE showed up in town,

900
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 2: I think the I think the way it down is

901
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 2: that the like local police were like, all right, we'll

902
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 2: protect you, and he was like, no, I'm good, the

903
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 2: Deacons will protect me.

904
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 3: Actually that half people are ready for that.

905
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Oh my god. So okay. So that's

906
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 2: like the either way nonviolence is relying on armed people,

907
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 2: and it's trying to rely on cops and like federal

908
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 2: troops and like the state as the armed force, right,

909
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 2: and so instead he's saying, no, the armed force I

910
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 2: trust are the Deacons for Defense and Justice. In the end,

911
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 2: after only a few years, the Deacons had twenty one

912
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 2: formal chapters and forty six affiliates throughout the country, But

913
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 2: by nineteen sixty eight they were overshadowed by the Black

914
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 2: Panther Party, which I'm sure we'll talk about more some

915
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 2: other time, and sort of a close to this era.

916
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 2: As the sixties wear on, tensions are growing within the

917
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,240
Speaker 2: civil rights movement because it was it was finding itself.

918
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 2: It was starting to be about more than just voting

919
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 2: rights and desegregation. And there's I named James Meredith, and

920
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 2: I first wrote there was this guy. But there is

921
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 2: a guy. He's still alive. He's a black man with

922
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,359
Speaker 2: some Choctaw heritage. He was a vet. He spent nine

923
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 2: years in the Air Force from nineteen fifty one to

924
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty. He's actually fairly conservative, but he's doesn't like

925
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 2: white supremacy. He integrated the University of Mississippi, which did

926
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 2: not want to be integrated by him.

927
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 3: Missis Sippy still doesn't want to be No.

928
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 2: I believe that this is the democratic governor who said, like,

929
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 2: I will die before I allowed desegregation in my state,

930
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 2: or something like that. I can't remember it exactly.

931
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 3: You're welcome to do that, sir, I know, right.

932
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 2: Deacons of defense are like I volunteer. It took a

933
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,879
Speaker 2: bunch of applications and a lawsuit with help from the NAACP,

934
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 2: and then federal intervention, and then he had to survive

935
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 2: a frame up on voter fraud, all kinds of shit.

936
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 2: They did everything they could to try and stop him.

937
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: But when he finally went to go enroll because he

938
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 2: had succeeded, these lawsuits. It took four hundred law enforcement

939
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 2: folks from various federal agencies and shit to protect him,

940
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 2: and still racists, including mostly the fucking white racist students

941
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 2: at this fucking university, rioted to try and prevent him

942
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 2: from enrolling and like fought those four hundred cops or whatever.

943
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,280
Speaker 2: So he goes to the school, he graduates, he faces

944
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 2: a ton of abuse the whole time from racist students,

945
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 2: which is frankly most of the students. For his next degree,

946
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 2: for some completely understandable reason, he goes to a university

947
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 2: in Nigeria.

948
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 3: Yes, get all the way out of you're like no.

949
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty six, he declares that he's going to

950
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 2: do a march against fear, and he's going to do

951
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: it without. He's going to go on a two hundred

952
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: and twenty mile march from Memphis, Tennessee, to Jackson, Mississippi.

953
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 2: He didn't want any of the major civil rights organizations involved.

954
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 2: And I believe I've read two different things. One is

955
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 2: that he started alone and he intended to do it alone.

956
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 2: And one is that he specifically said only black men

957
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 2: can join me, and I think that meant black men.

958
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 2: It absolutely meant no white people. I'm not certain whether

959
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 2: he was trying to make a statement about gender, and

960
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 2: he's just like, I'm not trying to do this like

961
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: how other people are doing it. I'm gonna do this thing,

962
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:23,479
Speaker 2: a march against fear. Literally the second day of the march,

963
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 2: a white sniper shot him. He survived.

964
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:31,240
Speaker 3: Wow, wow, right, because he's still alive, you said, I.

965
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 2: Was like, no, I know, And like, after a while

966
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 2: in a hospital, he rejoins the march, and he didn't

967
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 2: trust the other civil rights organizations, but he considered himself

968
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 2: at war with white supremacy. So after this attack, leaders

969
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 2: and and or delegates from very civil rights organizations they

970
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 2: meet up in Memphis to decide what to do. Basically,

971
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 2: they're like, violence can't stop our movement. We can't allow

972
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 2: that to happen. But they were nowhere near a consensus

973
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 2: beyond this point. This is like it's nineteen sixty six,

974
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 2: and this like coalition is really starting to come apart

975
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 2: because they don't actually all want the same things right,

976
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: And they reach a compromise. They decide that they're going

977
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 2: to go continue this march, which is a little bit funny.

978
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: I kind of wonder what he thought about it because

979
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 2: like his whole thing is he didn't want these people involved.

980
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,320
Speaker 2: But then again he also got s. I don't know

981
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 2: what he wanted about this, you know, but the civil

982
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 2: rights organizations they reach a compromise. Martin Luther King wanted

983
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 2: no guns, yes, white people. Snick wanted deacons as an

984
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 2: armed defense force and no white people, which fits better

985
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 2: with James Meritith's original conception of the march anyway, And

986
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 2: so they compromised white allies yes, deacons for defense yes.

987
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 2: And the split in this movement is about a ton

988
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 2: of things. It's about the role of white organizers, and

989
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 2: I think especially about white leadership and like direction. But

990
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 2: maybe I'm just saying that. I not one hundred cent

991
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 2: certain it's about the use of firearms. It's about the

992
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 2: growing disenchantment with the political process specifically, Like there's this

993
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 2: whole thing that I didn't even get into, where like

994
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party was like, nah, we actually don't fucking

995
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 2: care about you. Fuck you. And also there's this question

996
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 2: about growing militancy. There's like this question about like what

997
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 2: people actually like want. Do people want a revolution? Do

998
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,240
Speaker 2: they want to be accepted within mainstream society? And specifically

999
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 2: about the desire for desegregation versus black power, which is

1000
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 2: not always a dichotomy but is like kind of presented

1001
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 2: as one in a lot of these conversations. But both

1002
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 2: SNICK and the SCLC and you know, these groups that

1003
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 2: don't like each other. They finish this march, the March

1004
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 2: Against Fear. Fifteen thousand people are on the march by

1005
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 2: the end of the march, including ten Yeah. Yeah, it's

1006
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 2: fucking cool and like, it's interesting because they had mostly

1007
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 2: moved away from protest marches, especially the like youth for

1008
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 2: organizers that are like, no direct action is what matters, right,

1009
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 2: But I mean, I don't know, I think it's pretty

1010
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 2: direct action if you're getting shot for trying to do it.

1011
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, yeah, for sure.

1012
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 2: And this this included ten buses of union auto workers

1013
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 2: from Chicago came down to join the march just to

1014
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,959
Speaker 2: shout out that the labor movement did do some good

1015
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: things at various points in the history. And along race lines,

1016
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: four thousand people were registered to vote. Along the way

1017
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 2: and where we're going to end it, the last little thing,

1018
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 2: because it's sort of the end of this chunk. On

1019
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 2: June sixteenth, nineteen sixty six, Snick's president Kuame Toure, which

1020
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 2: is stokely Carmichael and all the history books, but he

1021
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 2: changes name later in life, and so I'm using both

1022
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 2: so that people know who I'm talking about. But his

1023
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 2: name was Kwame Tore And he gets arrested for trespassing

1024
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: on public property, which is a cool, interesting trick.

1025
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, how do you do that?

1026
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 2: I'm not I think you just be black. And in Greenwood, Mississippi,

1027
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty six, he gets held for several hours.

1028
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,240
Speaker 2: When he gets out, he goes back to the march,

1029
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 2: he gets up on the podium and he gives a speech,

1030
00:55:57,719 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: and he calls up a chant we want black power.

1031
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,320
Speaker 2: I guess called his black power speech. It was, in

1032
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 2: his words, a call for black people in the country

1033
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 2: to unite, to recognize their heritage and build a sense

1034
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 2: of community. Quote more from him about this. When you

1035
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 2: talk about black power, you talk about bringing this country

1036
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:14,919
Speaker 2: to its knees anytime it messes with a black man.

1037
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 2: Any white man in this country knows about power. He

1038
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 2: knows what white power is, and he ought to know

1039
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 2: what black power is. And this is not the end

1040
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 2: of the civil rights movement, but it's one of the

1041
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 2: places we can point to a split, and so it's

1042
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 2: kind of where I'm going to end it. Soon enough,

1043
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 2: you get the Black Panthers, who were ideological eclipsing the

1044
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 2: Deacons for Defense Snick and Core go radical as hell.

1045
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 2: They were done with nonviolence. Core at least embraced black nationalism.

1046
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 2: The SCLC. The NAACP in turn rejected black power, not

1047
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 2: like as a as a slogan, I'm not trying to

1048
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 2: be like whatever complicated, yeah, and going forward from there,

1049
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 2: There's so many other cool people who did cool stuff.

1050
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: But this is where we're going to leave the story.

1051
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 3: This was an amaze journey so many people I didn't

1052
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 3: know about. I love learning about the people who made

1053
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 3: the big moments possible, and especially hearing about the rural

1054
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 3: South where shit was really help for people, and like

1055
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 3: how did they deal with this? You know? It's like

1056
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 3: and also this idea of like, we need multiple forms

1057
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 3: of activism to reach our end goal. I think that's

1058
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 3: what's most interesting about this because a lot of people

1059
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 3: have issues, you know, with the NAACP at different times.

1060
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 3: For you know, their focus was legality right first, and

1061
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 3: it's also like a lot of class issues, you know,

1062
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 3: they were recording a certain type of black person, And

1063
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting to hear how at the end

1064
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 3: of the day, like all of these different divisions had

1065
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 3: to team up and compromise on their visions in order

1066
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 3: to move the needle. Yeah, it gives me a lot

1067
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 3: of hope for where our activism is today and the

1068
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 3: things that we've been to accomplish. A lot of times

1069
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 3: that in fighting can seem insurmountable and like it's halting things,

1070
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 3: but really I think it's just making the entire movement

1071
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 3: richer totally.

1072
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's really you know, interesting, because there's

1073
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 4: no one right way to achieve you know, certain goals,

1074
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 4: and you might have to borrow from different baskets, and

1075
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 4: like Joel said, it's about the combination or the mixture

1076
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 4: in the compromise, you know, of all these different tactics

1077
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 4: to achieve the common goal. And sometimes you know, there

1078
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 4: is infighting and disagreements, but ultimately it's about just moving

1079
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 4: the needle forward. And I think that's really really interesting.

1080
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, thanks for coming on this journey with me, Joelle.

1081
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 2: Do you have anything that you'd like to plug here

1082
00:58:59,200 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 2: at the.

1083
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 3: You know, I please come find me on the Internet.

1084
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 3: It's where I live. I love hearing from you guys.

1085
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 3: You can find me actual money. Get j O E

1086
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 3: L L E M O N I q u E.

1087
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, Ian you got anything.

1088
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 4: I'll just say, listen to some cool Zone media podcasts.

1089
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 4: Internet Hate Machine with Bridget Todd is our newest shows

1090
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 4: now and check that out wherever you listen to your podcasts.

1091
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 4: And yeah, that's all for me.

1092
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 2: I'll just say that Internet Hate Machine is my favorite

1093
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 2: way of keeping up on the Internet gossip, and it

1094
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 2: is like not like like gossip about the Internet out

1095
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 2: or whatever. It's really good. You should listen to it,

1096
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 2: That's what.

1097
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 4: It's really good. It's super timely, especially with what's going

1098
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 4: on in our current Internet landscape.

1099
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 3: So yeah, the episode where we talk about Twitter and

1100
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 3: the Elon Musk change over if you still need to

1101
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 3: catch up on that.

1102
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that one's fun. What a fun time we're all facing.

1103
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 3: Okay.

1104
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 2: The thing that I would like to plug is a

1105
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 2: diversity of tactics and learning to accept that not everyone

1106
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 2: is going to agree with you, but that we can

1107
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 2: still figure some things out together. That's what I want

1108
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 2: to shout out here at the end. YAY community all right,

1109
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 2: see everyone next week. Goodbye, bye bye.

1110
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1111
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1112
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,439
Speaker 1: visit our website foolzonemedia dot com or check us out

1113
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1114
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 2: You get your podcasts.