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Speaker 1: All of a sudden, there's a private flight and there's

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Speaker 1: three people in a hotel room across from the Pentagon.

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Speaker 1: One of Hunter Biden's attorneys trying to convince me that

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Speaker 1: they think there's things in the data that could really

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Speaker 1: help them out, and explaining what happened and who spread

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Speaker 1: that data, who stole it in his invasion or privacy,

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Speaker 1: and I finally got to the point they said, listen,

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Speaker 1: we think there's really three people involved with this. They

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Speaker 1: said it's Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon, and then they mentioned

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Speaker 1: Roger Stone. Maybe a couple days later, I'm on a

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Speaker 1: zoom with Hunter and his wife and they're like, will

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Speaker 1: you please help us.

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Speaker 2: I'm John Ceipher and I'm Jerry O'Shea. I served in

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Speaker 2: the CIA's Clandestine Service for twenty eight years, living undercover

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Speaker 2: all around the world.

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Speaker 3: And in my thirty three years with the CIA, I

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Speaker 3: served in Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Middle East.

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Speaker 2: Although we don't usually look at it this way, we

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Speaker 2: created conspiracies.

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Speaker 3: In our operations. We got people to believe things that

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Speaker 3: weren't true.

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Speaker 2: Now we're investigating the conspiracy theories we see in the

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Speaker 2: news Almost every day.

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Speaker 3: We'll break them down for you to determine whether they

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Speaker 3: could be real or whether we're being manipulated.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Mission implausible. So welcome to Mission implausible, Jerry.

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Speaker 2: Today we're going to talk about Hunter Biden's laptop, which

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Speaker 2: means a lot of different things to different people, and

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Speaker 2: clearly is the number one story on Fox News and

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Speaker 2: in some parts of our political debate.

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Speaker 3: All right, John, let's open up the Costco size can

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Speaker 3: and see whether it's empty or full of worms, Jerry.

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Speaker 2: As you know, living overseas, we always went to Costco

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Speaker 2: to get big items before we headed overseas. I bought

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Speaker 2: so much toilet paper from Costco before I went to

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Speaker 2: Russia that it lasted me through two years of Russia

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Speaker 2: and then two and a half years in Serbia before

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Speaker 2: I had my new toilet paper.

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Speaker 3: The one good thing about working all the time you're

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Speaker 3: working either in the embassy or you're at hotels, going

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Speaker 3: to diplomatic tools, you don't you can steal it, but

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Speaker 3: you don't use a lot of your own toilet paper

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Speaker 3: because you're pooped there. Yeah, you work the restaurant, you

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Speaker 3: shower at all.

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Speaker 2: In Moscow, Yeah, even a shower at home. They had

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Speaker 2: you on video. They probably had it at the embassy too,

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Speaker 2: and they certainly had at hotel, so there's no way

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Speaker 2: around it.

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Speaker 3: All right, John, let's talk Biden laptop.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're going to get into sort of the background

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Speaker 2: of this issue with several episodes here, but what's happened

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Speaker 2: lately is a pretty big story. So the Justice Department

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Speaker 2: recently acknowledged that an FBI informant named Alexander Smirnoff was

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Speaker 2: quote spreading disinformation to sign the hurt President Joe Biden

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Speaker 2: after speaking with Russian intelligence officers. But what's new is

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Speaker 2: this indictment alleges that Smirnoff lied in twenty twenty to

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Speaker 2: create a false narrative about the Bidens after meeting with

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Speaker 2: Russian intelligence sufficient. So we're going to focus on the

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Speaker 2: laptop rather than the whole hunter Biden story. And as

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Speaker 2: we'll discuss in the podcast, Jerry and I play an

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Speaker 2: actual small role in this story, but we're going to

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Speaker 2: use two episodes to talk about it. And so what

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Speaker 2: we're going to do is have our producer, Adam Davidson

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Speaker 2: interview us for a change.

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Speaker 3: The Biden's story is like a black hole. It sucks

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Speaker 3: everything into it. Even John and I.

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Speaker 4: So I'm assuming most people have heard the phrase Hunter

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Speaker 4: Biden's laptop because.

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Speaker 3: I've seen it on bumper stickers.

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Speaker 2: Is a twenty twenty four Republican slogan.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and a great band. By the way, they're fabulous.

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Speaker 4: I liked their early acoustic work best. But let's just

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Speaker 4: start with the very basics. Is there an actual laptop

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Speaker 4: that is Hunter Biden's laptop? It's now like her emails,

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Speaker 4: it's just this phrase you hear, but what is it

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Speaker 4: tied to?

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Speaker 3: So initially, as I understand it, several weeks before the

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty elections, Rudy Giuliani revealed that he had a

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Speaker 3: laptop that he claimed was Hunter butdens and he's claiming

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Speaker 3: that information from the laptop was stolen. So I think

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Speaker 3: now we can certainly affirm for certainly that there is

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Speaker 3: a laptop and it was the one that Rudy Juliani had.

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Speaker 3: Now what was in it and how we look at

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Speaker 3: that will be open to discussion today. So, yes, there

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Speaker 3: is a laptop.

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Speaker 4: So this might be something I shouldn't admit in public,

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Speaker 4: but I myself have a laptop, and in fact, many

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Speaker 4: of the people I care about most in the world

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Speaker 4: have laptops. Owning a laptop is not necessarily It is

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Speaker 4: often associated with nefarious activity, but it's not always. So

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Speaker 4: I'm assuming when we hear Hunter Biden's laptop, it's referring

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Speaker 4: to what was on that laptop. And I know there's

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Speaker 4: some like nude photos, But why does anyone who isn't

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Speaker 4: Hunter Biden or whoever he was emailing care what was

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Speaker 4: on his laptop?

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Speaker 2: Well, Adam, you're going right to the heart of the matter.

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Speaker 2: That is largely the question that the people who want

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Speaker 2: the world to believe that there's something horrible going on

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Speaker 2: here don't want to deal with. Right, So the question

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Speaker 2: is who cares? Like Hunter Biden is the son of

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden. He's a son who's had a series of

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Speaker 2: personal problems, drug issues and other things. But right prior

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Speaker 2: to the election, this notion that he had dropped off

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Speaker 2: a computer at a Delaware computer shop, which then made

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Speaker 2: its way into the hands of Rudy Giuliani and eventually

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Speaker 2: the New York Post and the FBI. It is automatically

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Speaker 2: supposed to suggest that there's something nefarious and that it

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Speaker 2: somehow has to do with Joe Biden. Right, so essentially

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Speaker 2: it has this suggest that Hunter Biden is somehow up

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Speaker 2: to something and that Joe Biden has been involved or

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Speaker 2: helped him, or there's something criminal going on. And the

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Speaker 2: problem is this laptop, as I understand, it's been in

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Speaker 2: the hands of the FBI for several years now, and

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Speaker 2: there's been nothing public that has suggested that there's anything

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Speaker 2: criminal in there. But there has been suggestions of salacious

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Speaker 2: you know, dick picks and nude picks and all kinds

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Speaker 2: of things, which, as ugly as that may be, it's

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Speaker 2: not really clear what that has to do with his father.

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Speaker 4: So this is something I've wondered about with conspiracies. But

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Speaker 4: let's say I want to disparage say John Ceipher, and

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Speaker 4: I'm part of a team of smart people who know

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Speaker 4: how to spread bad information. It seems to me that

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Speaker 4: a really clear strategy that some people follow is have

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Speaker 4: a phrase, have a lot of like nefarious, sish seeming

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Speaker 4: stuff around it, but you actually don't want specifics, Like

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Speaker 4: if I say John Steifer robbed a bank on March

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Speaker 4: thirteenth in Bethesda, that isn't the way. It's more, Hey,

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Speaker 4: everyone knows what John Szeipher was doing in Bethesda, the

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Speaker 4: cipher Bethesda story. Is that a thing that people who do,

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Speaker 4: for example, you guys conspiracies.

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Speaker 3: No, I guess the show's over. You've done it. But no, No,

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Speaker 3: casting vague aspersions is always better because those are unfalsifiable.

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Speaker 3: You can't ever prove a negative. Right, So before we

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Speaker 3: go to the heart, let's go on a little journey

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Speaker 3: as to like how we got here. So hunter by

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Speaker 3: and supposedly, and I accept that this is a fake,

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Speaker 3: he shows up at this place in Delaware to get

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Speaker 3: his two laptops fixed, and he never picks him up again.

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Speaker 3: So odd fact number one. The guy he shows up to,

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Speaker 3: he hands his laptop over to I'm not making this

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Speaker 3: up to a guy who's legally blind. So this guy

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Speaker 3: apparently he can't identify who gave him the computer. He

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Speaker 3: doesn't know because he can't see his face. So okay,

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Speaker 3: the guy who's legally blind has nothing better to do

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Speaker 3: than open this computer, get it working, and then do

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Speaker 3: you know, sit around and read one hundred and twenty

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Speaker 3: thousand emails of somebody else's stuff, which I'm sure we

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Speaker 3: all have time to do. Right. He is so shocked

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Speaker 3: by this that he hands it over as most computer

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Speaker 3: repairmen do. He hands it over to Rudy Giuliani. Hey, Rudy,

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Speaker 3: here you go. Well now we're talking chain of custody issues,

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Speaker 3: right who the computer up? Can you prove it likely?

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Speaker 3: Hunter Biden? Yes, yes, yes. My understanding is that Giuliani

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Speaker 3: had this thing for months and said on it. My

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Speaker 3: understanding is before it ended up with the New York

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Speaker 3: Post it being the hard drive. Forensic work has shown

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Speaker 3: that it is clear that the computer was I'll use

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Speaker 3: the word tampered with, but people were in the computer

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Speaker 3: refiling things, messing with the computer. How's that for technical talk?

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Speaker 3: And so the question is is what is on the computer?

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Speaker 3: Is it the original? And has it been manipulated in

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Speaker 3: any way, shape or form? That I think is still

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Speaker 3: an open question. So let me put it there. So

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Speaker 3: blind guy gets it, blind guy reads it, blind guy

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Speaker 3: hands it to Rudy Giuliani. Rudy Giuliani sits on it

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Speaker 3: for X amount of time. Rudy Giuliani, mind you, who

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Speaker 3: is also the same guy who was in Ukraine looking

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Speaker 3: for on Hunter Biden.

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Speaker 4: Hunter Biden, who did work in Ukraine, presumably went there

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Speaker 4: with a laptop at some point.

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Speaker 2: And I understand also that the FBI warned Rudy Giuliani,

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Speaker 2: who was traveling back and forth to Ukraine, that he

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Speaker 2: was engaged with known Russian intelligence officers. They warned him

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Speaker 2: about this at the time. So Rudy Juliani, who's at

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Speaker 2: some point comes across this laptop and he's looking for

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Speaker 2: dirt on Hunter Biden, presumably to get dirt on Joe Biden,

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Speaker 2: is engaged with Russian intelligence officers at the same time.

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Speaker 3: I just want to quick throw in that the FBI,

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Speaker 3: we know, had gone to Twitter and had talked and

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Speaker 3: said that to be careful that Rudy Giuliani specifically was

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Speaker 3: someone that Russian intelligence was trying to manipulate. So we

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Speaker 3: also know that from public accounts.

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Speaker 4: So first off, we don't know if there's any evidence

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Speaker 4: of actual wrongdoing right by Hunter Biden. But if there is,

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Speaker 4: is it actual evidence or was that tamp.

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Speaker 3: With that's for a jury to decide, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's not even clear that there's anybody's charged

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Speaker 2: with anything here.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: I've been a reporter for much of my life. My

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Speaker 4: spidy sense is telling me there's nothing here because highly

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Speaker 4: motivated people Rudy Giuliani and others who really, really really

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Speaker 4: wanted to find very clear, convincing evidence against Hunter Biden

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Speaker 4: and Joe Biden had access to this thing for months.

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Speaker 4: They've sort of done their best and they haven't come

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Speaker 4: up with anything. It is theoretically possible that Rudy Giuliani

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Speaker 4: is incompetent and is surrounded by incompetence, But to me,

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Speaker 4: that suggests there just isn't anything there.

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Speaker 3: I would disagree with you. So there is something that's illegal,

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Speaker 3: and then there's unethical. So if accounts are true, Hunter

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Speaker 3: Biden was receiving fifty thousand dollars a month from a

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Speaker 3: Ukrainian energy firm. Him and his uncle may or may

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Speaker 3: not have had business interests in China. So the question

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Speaker 3: is do only members of people involved in politics what

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Speaker 3: is okay for them? So me personally, I think that

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Speaker 3: family members should not be involved in this. So Clarence

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Speaker 3: Thomas's wife, Jimmy Thoms shouldn't be involved in politics if

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Speaker 3: her husband is ruling on these things. And I would

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Speaker 3: put out that Avonka Trump in twenty eighteen, while she

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Speaker 3: was in the White House was being granted copyrights. She

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Speaker 3: received eighteen of them, like it was a large percentage

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Speaker 3: of the copyrights China granted to the US. She received

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Speaker 3: eighteen copyrights from China. So I would say that there

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Speaker 3: is an unethical issue here is you know, was Hunter Biden?

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Speaker 3: Did he really have value of fifty thousand dollars a

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Speaker 3: month for Barisma? But is that illegal or not? And

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Speaker 3: I think the answer is it's not illegal. It's just

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Speaker 3: I personally find unethical.

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Speaker 4: Before I ever heard about any laptop, I looked into

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Speaker 4: the Bresmath story and I was thinking of writing about

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Speaker 4: it for The New Yorker. I didn't do exhaustive reporting

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Speaker 4: on everything, but my basic inclusion was lots and lots

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Speaker 4: of Eastern Europeans, Central Asian kind of former Soviet Union

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Speaker 4: oligarchs pay a lot of money to people with impressive resumes.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of Democrats, a lot of Republicans on

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Speaker 4: all these boards. General Wesley Clark.

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Speaker 3: Is very involved.

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Speaker 4: And it's not illegal, and it's pretty colm, but.

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Speaker 2: It seems that the reason it was brought up right

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Speaker 2: before an election. Yeah, we'll eventually get to why Jerry

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Speaker 2: and I signed this letter that we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about is for it to matter, it has to affect

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden's effort to run for president. Right, So Hunter

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Speaker 2: Biden is a citizen and maybe a scuzzy citizen, and

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Speaker 2: maybe he's done illegal things and maybe he gets arrested

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Speaker 2: and does abay care?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: Is that an October surprise? Is that something that's going

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Speaker 2: to affect the election of Joe Biden versus Donald Trump?

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Speaker 2: Because what this really comes down to is that oftentimes

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Speaker 2: the timing of when this came out, This stuff was

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Speaker 2: going on for quite a long time, and then a

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Speaker 2: week few weeks before the election, all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: it's storn into the public space that there's this horrible

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Speaker 2: scanned and somehow it has something to do with Joe Biden.

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Speaker 3: Right, And it's not even a scandal, it's casting aspersions.

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Speaker 3: And I think we need to go back to the

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Speaker 3: twenty sixteen election, and I think we can look at

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Speaker 3: two things. One now is of today. It was the

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Speaker 3: McDougall story and the Stormy Daniel's story were both basically

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Speaker 3: money was paid to prevent them from coming out to

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Speaker 3: influence the election, which clearly did. And also in twenty

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Speaker 3: sixteen with the grave and by the pussy tape, right

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Speaker 3: within a day, the stolen emails stolen by the Russians.

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Speaker 3: DNC heck, the DNC heck those through WikiLeaks. Those drop

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Speaker 3: nothing illegal in there, by the way, but probably some

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Speaker 3: unhappy stuff. And so it was clearly manipulation that the Russians.

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Speaker 3: I think the Mother Report is very clear about this,

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Speaker 3: as are almost not almost all intelligence agencies are the

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Speaker 3: only person who disputes this is Vladimir Putin and people

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Speaker 3: who leave him. Now we go into the twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: election again, three weeks the same playbook. Something pops out

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Speaker 3: exactly the same way, that is generalized and cast suspersions.

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Speaker 3: You got to look at this with some suspicion.

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Speaker 4: And really similar dynamics to the Hillary email and the

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Speaker 4: DNC emails, where the exact same thing. It was reported

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Speaker 4: as this vague thing Hillary's emails without any specificity. It

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Speaker 4: was just a phrase like a marketing campaign, and like

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Speaker 4: you said, the timing and just it allowed for a

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Speaker 4: constant drumbeat of something.

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Speaker 3: All right, thanks, Adam, Let's talk to someone new. We

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Speaker 3: have Asher Ingappa, who is very impressively a teacher at

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Speaker 3: the Yale Jackson School of Global Affairs, former dean of

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Speaker 3: the Law School at Yale, a former FBI special agent.

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Speaker 3: And one of the reasons we're talking with her today

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Speaker 3: is she did a really long and authoritative peace on

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Speaker 3: Hunter Biden and you can get that in her subsetect.

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Speaker 3: And really looking forward to chatting with her.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me just to start us off, like,

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Speaker 2: why the obsession? That's the question?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, and Jerry, I think you've hit the nail

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Speaker 5: on the head. Hunter Biden's laptop at this point can

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Speaker 5: mean anything you want it to mean. I think most

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Speaker 5: people who use the phrase actually don't know what they're alleging.

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Speaker 5: They just know that it's something really really bad and

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Speaker 5: it involves the government and the CIA, and it's like

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Speaker 5: Hillary's emails. You know, there's shorthand, and I think, quite frankly,

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Speaker 5: Republicans are really good at this. They're really good at

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Speaker 5: creating shortcuts that are ambiguous and undefinable and therefore can

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Speaker 5: just be used to claim or allege things that they

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Speaker 5: never have to actually articulate. So I did some research.

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Speaker 5: There's a great piece in New York Magazine by Olivia

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Speaker 5: Newzy where she really breaks down the history and really

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Speaker 5: this is a laptop that was left at a computer

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Speaker 5: repair shop in Delaware. The person who owns the laptop,

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Speaker 5: never picked it up, and so the computer repair shop

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Speaker 5: owner decided to copy files, and by the way, not

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Speaker 5: copy the entire hard drive or mirror the hard drive,

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Speaker 5: but just to selectively copy files, which he then passed

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Speaker 5: on to, among other people, various members of Congress, sort

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Speaker 5: of usual suspects. Steve Bannon eventually gets a hold of this.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it goes down some chain of command. There

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Speaker 5: is an allegation that the FBI came by and seized

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Speaker 5: the actual physical laptop, though I've never seen that confirmed officially,

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Speaker 5: though that may be true. And basically what happens is

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Speaker 5: that from these files that this blind computer repairman copies,

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Speaker 5: he claims to have found several smoking gun emails that

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Speaker 5: shows that Hunter Biden was engaged. I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 5: even really sure what the allegation is. He was using

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Speaker 5: his connections at Barisma to engage in political influence and

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Speaker 5: doing deals with China and all of this stuff. And

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Speaker 5: this was coming up right before the twenty twenty election. Now,

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Speaker 5: when this started surfacing, it was a New York Post

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Speaker 5: story that broke this. People were like, this sounds really sketchy,

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Speaker 5: and there were a lot of things that were happening.

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Speaker 5: At the same time, Rudy Giuliani was under a counterintelligence

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Speaker 5: investigation because of contacts that he had when Ukraine we

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Speaker 5: were approaching an election, etc. And the social media companies

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Speaker 5: had because of what happened in twenty sixteen, the hack

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Speaker 5: and dump by Russia, had established greater communication with the

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Speaker 5: FBI because they understood that they could be used as

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Speaker 5: vectors foreign influence operations. So when this started coming up,

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Speaker 5: the social media companies, based on kind of all these

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Speaker 5: tabletop exercises that they had done with the FBI, et cetera,

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Speaker 5: were like, let's just put the brakes on this, let's

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Speaker 5: add some friction to the story. And so they temporarily

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Speaker 5: I don't even know if they block the story. They

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Speaker 5: might have for a few hours or something, but they

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Speaker 5: definitely prevented its amplification.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for twenty four hours. Twitter basically didn't know. You

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Speaker 3: could put it on there, but you couldn't like forward it, right.

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Speaker 3: So before we go, just a quick question though, So

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Speaker 3: apparently the agreement is if you don't pick up the computer,

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Speaker 3: the computer belongs to the company, belongs to this guy

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Speaker 3: Mac whatever his name was. But does the information belong

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Speaker 3: to him through to the poison tree. Right, So if

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Speaker 3: he takes the information out, your information, if you hand

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Speaker 3: it to a computer salesman and they fix it, you know,

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Speaker 3: pick it up, the computer may belong to them a

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Speaker 3: fantasy agreement if you don't pay. But does the information

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Speaker 3: does he have legally have the right to Is that hacking?

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Speaker 3: Because that was part of the Twitter thing is like

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Speaker 3: this is hicked information, we don't put it on there.

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Speaker 3: So that was the first.

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Speaker 5: Question, right, I think that's exactly the right question to ask.

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Speaker 5: And in fact, Hunter Biden has filed lawsuit. So I'm

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Speaker 5: not sure if it's exactly against the computer repairman, but

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Speaker 5: there's a number of defendants, but it's for invasion of privacy, right,

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Speaker 5: So it's really about this. I mean, just because somebody

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Speaker 5: puts on the bottom of their receipt that you leave

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Speaker 5: something there and it belongs to you, doesn't mean you

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Speaker 5: lose all of your privacy interests in the content is.

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Speaker 3: The hardware, it's not the information.

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Speaker 5: I think that would be the argument, and I think

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Speaker 5: Hunter Biden might even be arguing, look, it doesn't belong

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Speaker 5: to you like you were. In legal terms, they call

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Speaker 5: them a bai lee like a Baylor Bailee relationship. I

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Speaker 5: think it might depend on the intricacies of state law.

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Speaker 5: But whether you can just like convert that into your

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Speaker 5: own personal property, like after a certain time, right you've

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Speaker 5: been entrusted with that, you can maybe charge fees or

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Speaker 5: something like that. But so there could be all these

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Speaker 5: legal things. But I think what you're getting at is

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Speaker 5: that the intrusion into the contents of that, even if

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Speaker 5: it were somehow, you know, became his property, I think

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Speaker 5: is a very valid legal question. And I suspect that

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Speaker 5: the reason that there was a delay in filing a

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Speaker 5: lawsuit about that, because I think invasion of privacy is

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Speaker 5: kind of the big scandal here, Like somebody just went

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Speaker 5: through a person's hard drive and released it all of

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Speaker 5: their personal information.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a breather back in a moment, glad to

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Speaker 3: have everybody back. Let's go back down the rabbit hole.

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Speaker 3: The real issue for most people is like, Okay, what

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Speaker 3: did Hunter Biden a Hunter Biden do wrote? But what

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Speaker 3: is the illegal thing it's alleged, and what is the

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Speaker 3: allegation somehow because I don't remember voting for Hunter Biden,

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Speaker 3: But what is the allegation against his father who was

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Speaker 3: running for president.

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Speaker 5: I went down that rabbit hole and I used a

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Speaker 5: kind of a three step formula that people who are

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Speaker 5: looking to test the validity of conspiracy theories used to

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Speaker 5: determine whether it has any basis in fact or not.

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Speaker 5: I mean, look, there are theories about conspiracies that are

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Speaker 5: literally actual conspiracies, so we need a way to test them.

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Speaker 5: And the three step process is asking three questions. Well, first,

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Speaker 5: what is the claim? Okay, so you need to know

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Speaker 5: what the allegation is, That's what you're asking. Then what

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Speaker 5: is the evidence for your claim? What is the source

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Speaker 5: of your evidence for that claim, and what is the

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Speaker 5: reasoning that links your evidence back to that claim? So

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Speaker 5: for me, the big question, as you asked, is what

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Speaker 5: exactly is the claim? Before I can even go down

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Speaker 5: this road. So there's two scandals, and each scandal has

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Speaker 5: its own claims. Okay. The first scandal is about the

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Speaker 5: contents of the so called laptop. The allegation is that

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Speaker 5: Joe Biden's efforts while he was vice president to pressure

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Speaker 5: the Ukraine government to fire the prosecutor who is investigating

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Speaker 5: Barisma was influenced by Biden, who was on Beisma's board

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Speaker 5: from twenty fourteen to twenty nineteen. In other words, they

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Speaker 5: believe that the firing of that prosecutor was because he

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Speaker 5: was being influenced by his son. The other claim is

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Speaker 5: that Joe Biden financially profited from Hunter Biden's deals in China.

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Speaker 5: Those are the two big claims. The problem is that

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Speaker 5: the evidence for these claims is very thin. They rest

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Speaker 5: on these so called smoking gun emails, which are very cryptic.

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Speaker 5: I can go into the details if you want, but

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Speaker 5: as I refers to.

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Speaker 4: The big bad guy, you know.

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Speaker 5: Like these kinds of things. Scandal number two is about

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Speaker 5: Twitter's decision to add friction to the amplification of the story,

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Speaker 5: so that allegation is basically that Twitter and the FBI

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Speaker 5: were conspiring at the direction of Democrats or whoever and

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Speaker 5: Joe Biden to basically not allow this story to get

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Speaker 5: into the public domain, and that this constitutes election interference.

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Speaker 3: This is Donald Trump's FBI to be correct, right, yes.

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Speaker 4: Correct, correct?

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Speaker 5: Now, Remember that this is really key. They have to

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Speaker 5: create this nexus between the government like the FBI and

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Speaker 5: Twitter in order for there to be something, for example,

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Speaker 5: for Jim Jordan's committee to investigate. Right like, in other words,

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Speaker 5: if Twitter was doing this just on their own I mean,

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Speaker 5: too bad, so.

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Speaker 3: Sad private company. Yeah, so that's.

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Speaker 5: Basically the allegations.

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Speaker 2: It's not much. Frankly, is it possible we're just taking

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Speaker 2: it way too seriously because essentially, to me, it looks

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Speaker 2: like it was a stunt, the smear Joe Biden right

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Speaker 2: before an election, and the Republicans just mad that didn't work.

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Speaker 2: So therefore they're spinning and throwing stuff in the air,

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Speaker 2: hoping that there'll be enough stuff that would just confuse people,

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Speaker 2: and it'll just add to the other stuff they're trying

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Speaker 2: to confuse people and whatever. Part of the problem is

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Speaker 2: that if we go down and like, okay, let's let's

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Speaker 2: investigate this, let's look, let's it's sort of we're playing

436
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: the game to a certain extent rather than just saying

437
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 2: it's bull and moving on.

438
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 5: So, you know, I do think it's important to engage

439
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 5: with it. But I think you're one hundred percent right

440
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 5: that the expectation was that the media would react and

441
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 5: respond the same way they did with the Hillary Clinton

442
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 5: email thing, and that this would be you know, hijack

443
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 5: the news, et cetera. Shockingly, the media kind of learned

444
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 5: and they were They understood that it's important to question

445
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 5: the provenance of this type of information. So the coverage

446
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 5: became not about the substance of the emails. It became

447
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 5: about who was behind it, where it was coming from,

448
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 5: and for what reason, which is exactly the questions that

449
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,479
Speaker 5: you want to ask. I mean, if you go back

450
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 5: to twenty sixteen, imagine if they had been asking those

451
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 5: questions about Hillary Clinton's emails.

452
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 3: Right, there's an irony here that apparently Juliani and Bannon

453
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 3: they had versions of the hard drive, and they had

454
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 3: it months before, and yet they waited until three weeks

455
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 3: or so two weeks before the election and released it

456
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 3: so that no fact checking could be done. And what

457
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 3: we did is simply say, caveat emptor right, you know,

458
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 3: buyer beware, Let's see what this really is before we

459
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: all jump on the bandwagon and make accusations.

460
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 5: You changed the frame of the story, That's what That's

461
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 5: all this comes down to. You changed the frame of

462
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 5: the story, which neutralized the impact of that information.

463
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 2: I wonder, if these people had this information from this

464
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: laptop and there's something potentially horrible in there, why didn't

465
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 2: they publish that? Why haven't they been talking about a

466
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 2: lot of this stuff comes down to people want the

467
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 2: smear to be out there rather than the details.

468
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 3: But four of the five things that the Biden family,

469
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 3: who were private citizens at the time, asked Twitter to

470
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 3: take down were dick pics set out by Hunter Biden,

471
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 3: and which is against Twitter rules that you know to

472
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 3: be to be put on there. Yet this has been

473
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 3: spun into Biden as though he was still the vice president.

474
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 3: Of course he wasn't basically asking them to take them down.

475
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 3: And I don't know why right wing media would want

476
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 3: to see that sort of you know, Hunter Biden, or

477
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 3: yes you do to say, whereas the same stuff you

478
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 3: know one.

479
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 5: Thing about conspiracy theory, So conspiracy theories that have no

480
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 5: basis in reality are defined as a belief that people

481
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 5: or groups are secretly coordinating behind the scenes to generate

482
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 5: very specific outcomes. There is research that suggests that people

483
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 5: who believe in conspiracy theories, because conspiracy theories really generate

484
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 5: a sense of powerlessness, become more politically disengaged, so in

485
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 5: other words, they can be less likely to vote. It's like, well,

486
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 5: what does it matter, right, the deep state is gonna

487
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 5: make sure Briden wins again, or whatever. If that's what

488
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 5: you're actually promoting, you're actually encouraging people to just opt

489
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 5: out of the system. Now, Also, conspiracy theories can be

490
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 5: linked with willingness to use violent means, because that is

491
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 5: an avenue. If you don't believe that you can actually

492
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 5: get your desired outcome using legitimate channels, then you feel justified.

493
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 3: It's a good point. I'm not sure they want to

494
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 3: win elections if winning elections means getting the most votes, right.

495
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 3: I mean, you get in Wisconsin, it's a fifty to

496
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 3: fifty state and you've got seventy five percent of the

497
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: seats are in one particular political party. Those people aren't

498
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 3: wanting to win elections. They're looking to manipulate the system

499
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 3: so they can maintain is a minority.

500
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 5: That's right. They want to entrench minority rule using and

501
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:54,719
Speaker 5: you know, whether it's gerrymandering, voter suppression, disinformation, whatever. And

502
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 5: they have to do that because not only do conspiracy

503
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 5: theories and leading to less turnout, so do the increasingly

504
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 5: extreme positions.

505
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Josha, great to talk to you. Now,

506
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 3: let's talk to Denver Riggleman, really interesting guy, former Air

507
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: Force intelligence officer and a Republican congressman from Virginia. He

508
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 3: worked on the House Select Committee looking at the January

509
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 3: sixth attack, and he's now working with the legal team

510
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 3: advising Hunter Biden. And he's got a great distillery in

511
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 3: southern Virginia.

512
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, really, it's an honor.

513
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 3: Mistake.

514
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 2: You obviously don't know us. And just to give you

515
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 2: a little background, Jerry and I are both signers of

516
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: the famous dirty fifty one letter that was published about.

517
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: I think that's going to come full circle where the

518
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: fifty one center is a letter will probably be smiling

519
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: a little bit about validation. And I think when people attack,

520
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: I don't think they understand what Russian amplification or influence

521
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: looks like, but you guys do. So I got in

522
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: a little bit of trouble because I wrote the book

523
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: The Breach, and the far left and the far right

524
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: both hated me, which was a great place to be,

525
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: but I did really well. It was a New York

526
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: Times bestseller. Then I had this sixty minutes thing, and

527
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: what I did know is people were watching.

528
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 3: So I.

529
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: Get this cryptophone call from a friend of a friend

530
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: of a friend from people who had gone to Berkeley

531
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: together about this other guy in LA. They're like, hey,

532
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: this dude is looking for you, has been sending emails.

533
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: Do you know dr right, I'm like okay. And they

534
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: mentioned the name and they're like, he would like you

535
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: to come to LA to help on a problem set

536
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: that might deal with the son of a present. And

537
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 1: I told him to pound sand. I said, I just

538
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: got out of some hell. I said, I'm finally home.

539
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: You know, I'm old City Moore, but you know, I

540
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: did feel some duty. But I said, I'm not going

541
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: to LA. If you want to talk to me, I'm

542
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: here in Virginia. I didn't really think it would happen.

543
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, there's a private flight and there's

544
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: three people in a hotel room across from the Pentagon

545
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: you probably know the Double Tree at three hundred Army

546
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: Navy Drive, And there's three people. One of Hunter Biden's

547
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: attorneys trying to convince me that they think there's things

548
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: in the data that could really help them out in

549
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: explaining what happened and who spread that data, who stole

550
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: it in his invasion or privacy. And I was very skeptical.

551
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: So I listened to for two or three hours. Then

552
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: I asked questions for two hours and I finally got

553
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: to the point they said, listen, we think there's really

554
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: three people involved with this, and I've sort of proven

555
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: it by this point, but they said it's Rudy Giuliani,

556
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: Steve Bannon, and then they mentioned Roger Stone. Maybe. I'm like, Okay,

557
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: you guys probably know I have a dark spot in

558
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: my heart for some of those cats. So a couple

559
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: days later, I'm on a zoom with Hunter and his

560
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: wife and they're like, will you please help us? You

561
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: guys know that's not easy. But when I met him,

562
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: he's been clean since May of twenty nineteen, his new kid,

563
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: His wife was awesome, and they got very emotional, and

564
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: at the end I said I will help, and the

565
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: wife was just so amazing, like, I cannot believe you

566
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: would do, Like you're going to put everything on the line.

567
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: I said, Well, I said, I'm not pro Hunter, anti Hunter.

568
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: I'm pro data and pro fact and Hunter goes, that's

569
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: what I want. He goes, Denver, I think I want

570
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: the truth, I said, but the truth is discoverable. So

571
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: if you go to court, know that I could find

572
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: things that actually could hurt you, not help you, He goes,

573
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: I don't care. I want to know the truth. So

574
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: I signed on. And now you are talking to the

575
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: guy that has three of Hunter Biden's laptops and a

576
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: cell phone. And have looked at all the data from

577
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: Marco Polo, from four Chan, all the data that the

578
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: Congress is using, they say is from a laptop. All

579
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: of that is forensically unsound. We have proven so much

580
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: on the curation of fabricated data or manipulated data, out

581
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: of context data. But I guess what I'm telling you, guys,

582
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: is that when you look at the Rudy Giuliani's on

583
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: the Russia team meeting with Teleazenko and Fertash and Dirkash right,

584
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: and guys, we have video of him from January of

585
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, four years four months before the laptop talking

586
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: to Ukrainian agents. That's January twenty nineteen.

587
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 3: Pro Russian Ukrainian agents Russians.

588
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: But I've been doing it since December sixteenth, and the

589
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: Russian Ukrainian team was read by Giuliani, and the Chinese

590
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: team with Guo in the National Free State of China

591
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: was all run by Bannon and Loude. So you got

592
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: Bannon working with Chinese nationals. You got Giuliani working with

593
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: Ukrainian and Russian connected agents proven so you have this

594
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: going on simultaneously, and it's just really interesting to see

595
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,479
Speaker 1: the data lines and how the laptop data went from

596
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: John Paul mac Isaac at the Apple repair shop in Delaware,

597
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: and how it's a copy of copies of copies of

598
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: copies of copies. Have a Tasta side on the Bannon side,

599
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: through Jack Maxi and through his underlings, and through the

600
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: Juliani side, through Costello and his underlings, and it's so

601
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: much from the Garrett zieglers on a Marco Polo site

602
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: all the way over to the yak of Apple bombs.

603
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: On the other side, you have Hunter's Kiwi bro who

604
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: actually released the data. On the four Chan side, who's

605
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: in anothereage of data. So it's it's probably i would

606
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: say it's been copies of copies, non forensically sound with

607
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: different data sets incorporated, have probably been spent twenty to

608
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: thirty times. And it's just amazing to me again that

609
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: after four years of this, first of all, that the

610
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: Bidens weren't more aggressive, but they thought the same thing

611
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: that they thought about Tara Reid.

612
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 3: Right right, who's not in Russia, by the way, applying

613
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 3: for Russians.

614
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: Now in Russian right, Tar Reid is just a pathological liar.

615
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: And it took four years to clear really for people

616
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: to finally say, ah, she was full of shit. I

617
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: still think Joe and Hunter thought that would actually happen.

618
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: And I keep telling them the far right ecosystem, media

619
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: ecosystem will roll you over. They're tougher than Democrats, they're

620
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: meaner than democrats, they're better coordinated than democrats. I said,

621
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: They're just better than you guys at pushing this stuff out,

622
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: and they don't care about the truth. The hardest thing

623
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,719
Speaker 1: about Hunter is how do you make a guy who

624
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,959
Speaker 1: did very bad things into a per send where you like,

625
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: he's a good person who feels bad about those very

626
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: bad things, who admitted to it in his book Beautiful Things,

627
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: which was really interesting to me that he'd admitted to

628
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 1: all of it. A guy who people think is awful

629
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: because of crack and prostitutes and leveraging his dad's name

630
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: for money, how do you say, well, he understands that,

631
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: but this guy was not an international criminal that was

632
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: putting the United States at risk purposefully.

633
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, to be to be clear, and for the record,

634
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 3: we're not Democrats or Republicans like like you, I understand

635
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 3: it's about it's about the data and what you can

636
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 3: show and what makes sense. Also on Hunter Biden, we

637
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 3: don't actually care about Hunter Biden. We care about the

638
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 3: truth of the accusations. But it's really for us and

639
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 3: it should be for everybody else. Is was there illegal corruption?

640
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 3: Involved in illegal corruption? Because the Trump kids were also

641
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 3: involved in selling their dad's name and a lot of

642
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 3: other people in politics. So but that's not illegal unfortunately perhaps,

643
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 3: So you know, what is the truth of these of

644
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 3: these of these accusations. And in the letter that we signed,

645
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 3: basically we say caveat emptor this came out just before

646
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 3: the election. This has all the hallmarks of what the

647
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 3: Russians would do. We he ever said that it was

648
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 3: you know, manipulated information and amplify.

649
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: I would humbly submit, don't defend your positions. I would

650
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 1: be offensive.

651
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 3: There we go.

652
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: I would be offensive. I am now who gives a shit?

653
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 3: Right?

654
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 1: And I think you know you guys want to play

655
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: the same game. Prove it wasn't motherfucker's You know, you

656
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: had to have multiple I think attack modalities. Stop to

657
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: steal Hunter biden laptop? Maybe Tara Reid? How do you

658
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: how do you really put some stink on this candidate?

659
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 1: And listen, you're right about Hunter, right, he did bad things.

660
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: He did some bad things, but it isn't just about

661
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: it is about not only did he do corruption, the

662
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: part that the American people should be afraid of if

663
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: they could do this to Hunter digitally, invasion of privacy,

664
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: steal your data and then spread that with no repercussions

665
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: or accountability. Now in a very dangerous situation that anything

666
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: could be faked, right, and you can have a veneer truth.

667
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: You guys know, the best way to do conspiracy theories

668
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: and lies is to have some true shit. And that's

669
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: the thing you have. You have real facts and data

670
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: that belonged to Hunter that might have been taken out

671
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: of context, manipulated, fabricated, or curated in such a way

672
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: to make it look worse than it is.

673
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 2: But in that sense, you can argue they haven't done

674
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 2: a good job because this information has been out there

675
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,439
Speaker 2: for a long time. They're claiming that it shows Joe

676
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: Biden is corrupted. But if the information's out there, and

677
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: people can see it, Well, where's that piece, where's that

678
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: piece of data that says that.

679
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 3: Okay, let's take a break from the craziness just for

680
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 3: a minute or two. Welcome back. We're saying over and

681
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 3: over the Hunter Biden laptop, and it's become sort of

682
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 3: like a shibboleth. Right, it's just like her emails. I

683
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 3: hear it all the time, but most people couldn't tell

684
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 3: you what it is. It's just bad, right, And then

685
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,399
Speaker 3: they want to talk about his dick pics. So what

686
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 3: is the laptop thing?

687
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: That Hunter Biden laptop team thing? Is this one device

688
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: delivered in April twenty nineteen to a Max shop in

689
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 1: Delaware by a supposedly high Hunter Biden right, that had

690
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: all the secrets of the universe about all the corruption

691
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: of the Bidens on one actual device. That's the Hunter

692
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: Biden laptop. It causes COVID, right, it can redirect satellites.

693
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: The Hunter Biden laptop proves financial crimes all the way

694
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: up to Joe Biden himself. It proves that they were

695
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: getting illegal payments from Russia, Ukraine and China, and it

696
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:34,919
Speaker 1: proves that they were trying to style out America through

697
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: some deep state plot in order to manipulate these individuals

698
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: so Joe could get back in office at some point.

699
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: So it's all of that in a box of doughnuts.

700
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: It's a conspiracy, sticky.

701
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 3: Bobm and it's been surprised.

702
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, well, and it's obviously been suppressed. The

703
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: issue is is that that day he actually turned in

704
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 1: three laptops to that shop, So that's number one. Number

705
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: two is that that laptop has never been forensically validated.

706
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: Where is it? The FBI has it.

707
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 3: That's great, but.

708
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: All the data, any forensic scientists would go on the

709
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: stand and say that this is all a soup sandwich.

710
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 1: You can't link it to anything. So the Hunter Biden

711
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: laptop has actually become the symbol for all data associated

712
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: with Hunter and Joe that's been pushed into the ecosystem

713
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: to prove some nefarious activities. This isn't going away. There's

714
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 1: no magic bullet. This is the people who just really

715
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: want to state of the factory's data. Side, like you

716
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 1: guys are doing right now, is making it sexy through

717
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: narrative and trying to put it out there in a

718
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: way that like, listen, the people that are usually projecting

719
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: and accusing people of these awful things, sometimes with the

720
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: people actually doing it. That is really important for the

721
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: American public to know. And if they're accusing people like you, guys,

722
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: who have served our country with valor and honor, these

723
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: people don't even know what they're talking about, and if

724
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 1: they did, it doesn't matter to them because it is.

725
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: War, war and profit. I mean, let's be clear that

726
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 3: Steve Bannon said it was war, but he was also

727
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 3: shaking down his own support orders to build a wall

728
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 3: that he never built, and he stole their money. Let's

729
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 3: be clear on that.

730
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: Of course he did.

731
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 2: Thank you, Denver, fantastic speaking with you. Now let's turn

732
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:12,720
Speaker 2: to our producer John Stern.

733
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 6: All Right, guys, I didn't really do any research per se,

734
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 6: but I did go onto YouTube and found some clips

735
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 6: for you. All right, what do I have for you?

736
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 3: First?

737
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 6: This is a Giuliani news clip from June twenty ninth,

738
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 6: twenty twenty three, on America's news source Newsmax.

739
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 7: I have an intimate knowledge of most of it from

740
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 7: the having gotten the hard drive from John. But sure,

741
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 7: I mean he's that hard drive contains probably fifty to

742
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,720
Speaker 7: sixty let's call them potential crimes for him.

743
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: And his father.

744
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 7: Almost everyone that he's involved in except the pure drug crimes,

745
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 7: involves Joe as the principal. I mean, Joe is the

746
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 7: main die. And Hunter explains it when he says that,

747
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 7: you know, he got all of his income for thirty years.

748
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 7: I have of all of Hunter's income for thirty years,

749
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 7: which means Hunter's income was really directed to his father.

750
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 2: It's frustrating because in the political sphere, people like Rudy Giuliani,

751
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 2: who's made it clear that he'll say anything to support

752
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 2: his client or his political client in this case, Donald Trump.

753
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,919
Speaker 2: In our world, if there's a crime, or there's even

754
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: a suggestion of a crime, you go to professional investigators,

755
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: you go to the police, you go to the FBI.

756
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: You know, having Rudy Giuliani say it is sort of

757
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: irrelevant to me. It's obviously done just for political purpose.

758
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 3: So he says he's got the evidence, but he doesn't

759
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 3: actually give us the evidence. He just says, I've got

760
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 3: stuff that proves this, and then he makes these accusations.

761
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 3: You know, in the world that most of us live in,

762
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 3: if you make an accusation and you say you got proof,

763
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 3: you provide the proof rather than just make an accusation.

764
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 3: So Giuliani, apparently, if I understand this correctly, had all

765
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 3: this information much earlier, and he had been operating with

766
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 3: associating with Russian intelligence officers, which the letter that we

767
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 3: signed said. But he waits until a week or two

768
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 3: before the election to throw all this out there, and

769
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 3: that clearly, regardless of whether the stuff is true, they

770
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 3: waited just before the election for an October surprise in

771
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 3: order to manipulate the election. Making accusations was one of

772
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: the oldest dirty trucks in the book. All right, here's

773
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 3: the other half of my research. Guys, do you remember

774
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 3: when Pergozen had that coup attempt against Putin? Do you

775
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 3: still recall that that was all the way back home?

776
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 3: Very much so?

777
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 6: All right, So June twenty fifth, twenty twenty three, seeing

778
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 6: an opportunity, no coup attempt should go unutilized by Fox News.

779
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 6: So Mario Bartuomo had a theory that the coup attempt

780
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 6: was actually an attempt to distract the American public from

781
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 6: Hunter Biden.

782
00:41:58,800 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 3: And here's that clip.

783
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 8: Look, I know that the State Department in the White

784
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 8: House would like everybody to move the Hunter Biden story

785
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 8: off of the front page and start talking about all

786
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 8: the drama in Russia over the weekend.

787
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 4: We're not going to do that.

788
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 8: On Sunday Morning, Futures, the biggest story of the week

789
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 8: was that what's at message from Hunter Biden? And he

790
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 8: is basically doing a shakedown that you would expect in

791
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 8: a Francis Ford Coppola Godfather movie. Pay up or you're

792
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 8: going to face retaliation. The White House wanted to give

793
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 8: the media something else to cover, and this is the

794
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 8: mo this is exactly the way they do things. In fact,

795
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 8: on Friday, I said, Wow, what a blockbuster, what's that message?

796
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 8: I'm sure there will be an enormous story over the

797
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 8: weekend that the White House is going to be pushing

798
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 8: to take this story off of the front page. And

799
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 8: sure enough, we've got the State Department drumming up all

800
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 8: the drama that took place over the weekend in Russia.

801
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 8: So I don't know if it's going to break through.

802
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 8: The mainstream media has an excuse again not to cover it.

803
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 8: They're covering everything about Russia and the Wagna Group. Yeah,

804
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 8: it's true, as if it really matters to the US

805
00:42:58,680 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 8: right now.

806
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 6: I love the particular theory because it didn't age well.

807
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 2: It's almost like people on Fox News and the other

808
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 2: people are so frustrated that the American public is not

809
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 2: jumping all over this that they have to throw it

810
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 2: in at all points and try to hope that some

811
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 2: spaghetti sticks to the wall. So they took the progosion

812
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: uprising in Russia and tried to say that I had

813
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 2: something to do with distracting from the Hunter Biden laptop.

814
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 3: I think it speaks more to her mindset. I mean,

815
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 3: she's right insofar as the coup in Russia, which is

816
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 3: a huge story, detracted from the Hunter Biden story, but

817
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 3: she goes it, takes it a step further and says

818
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 3: that it was a conspiracy by I don't know, the

819
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 3: Russians the Biden administration to distract from the story.

820
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: I think they get talking points and they say, listen,

821
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 2: just try to put the Hunter Biden laptop thing out

822
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: there as much as you possibly can in any story

823
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 2: you can, and we're just hoping that somehow it sticks.

824
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 6: So, guys, there's a lot more to the story than

825
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 6: one episode can hold. In fact, you were too of

826
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 6: the signers of a now infamous letter.

827
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 2: New York Post calls us the dirty fifty one.

828
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 3: We are two of the least important, in most insignificant

829
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 3: signers of that letter.

830
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 2: I'll tell you that, So please come back for part

831
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 2: two on Hunter Biden's laptop on Mission Implausible.

832
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 6: Mission Implausible is produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry O'sha, John Ceipher,

833
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 6: and Jonathan Stern. The associate producers are Rachel Harner and

834
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 6: David Sollinger. This has been a production of honorable, mention

835
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 6: and abominable pictures for iHeartMedia.