1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Hey guys, Steve here, you are listening to one of 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: our original twenty six episodes. If you listen to any 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: of our new episodes, you're gonna notice that we're sounding 4 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: a little different in these ones. Yeah, there's a reason 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: for that. There is they've been remastered. They have been 6 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: remastered because they had a really annoying hum. Yeah, I 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: mean a huge thanks to listener James for doing almost 8 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: all of the legwork on this thing. They'll also notice 9 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: if you had listened to what we're calling the last 10 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: twenty six episodes before and you're re listening now, the 11 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: music and sound effects are gone. Yes, we've we've gone 12 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: back to straight audio, so be warned. We sound a 13 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: little different today than we do in what you're about 14 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: to listen to. Yeah, enjoy, Bye bye, Thinking Sideways. I 15 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: don't understand. I'm you never know stories of things we 16 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: simply don't know the answer too. Well. Hi there, and 17 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: thanks again for joining the show. This is Thinking Sideways 18 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: the podcast, and I am Steve, and as always, on 19 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: my left is Joe. Hello everybody, and on my right 20 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: is Devon h And we are going to once again 21 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: review a story that doesn't quite have an answer. Now 22 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: this week, we were lucky enough we are not alone 23 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: in our review of the story. We were able to 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: get ahold of the known author, Roy Bington. She was 25 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: nice enough to talk with us about the story. But 26 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: before we get to that, let's let's let Roy introduce himself. Well, 27 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: my names Roy Benjon B A, I M. T O. N. 28 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: And I'm a right to and a journalist and an author. 29 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: But you've been doing for about seventeen years now. So 30 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: this story the Ring mcdan is also commonly referred to 31 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: as the death Ship like that. It's it's a creepy 32 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: story and it's been around for a long long time time. 33 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: This is one of those this stories been around since 34 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: the late forties. This story was told by salty old 35 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: dogs to to the young guys on the ships all 36 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: the time. As as a matter of fact, that's how 37 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: Roy heard it for the first time. Well, I've got 38 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: to go back to the source. The first time I 39 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: had it was actually verbally. I was on an old 40 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: merchant ship called the the Port's Halifax and we were 41 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: crossing from Panama to to Australia. This vessel used to 42 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,839 Speaker 1: travel at top speed of about twelve miles an hour. 43 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: You know, and he used to take us three weeks 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: to get from Panama to Australia. And on the night 45 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: after the watch, we'd have a few beers in the 46 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: mess room and people would tell stories, creepy stories about 47 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: about the sea, etcetera. And I remember this one coming 48 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: up because it really held the whole mess and we 49 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 1: were all set around thinking, Jesus, what's this just for 50 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: the benefit of our listeners, what exactly are the details 51 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: of this interesting story? Well, I'm glad you asked, Joe. 52 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: So here's the story. And we don't know if it's 53 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 1: N seven or nine. But in the Straits of Malacca 54 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: there was a radio transmission which picked up and it 55 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: was in Morris code. So the radio transmission was picked 56 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: up by several ships in the area as well as 57 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: on land, and everybody that had picked it up they 58 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: started talking to each other to try to figure it out, 59 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: and they triangulated approximately where it was at and the 60 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: closest ship was the Silver Star. So the Silver Star 61 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,119 Speaker 1: of course went to lend aid to the ship that 62 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: is sending out a distress call. Now here's the creepy part. 63 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: The first transmission says all officers including captain are dead, 64 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: lying in chart room and ridge, possibly whole crew dead. 65 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: And then a short time later, one more transmission is 66 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: picked up and all it says is I die. So 67 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: that's that's all there is in terms of actual transmissions 68 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: from this ship, which is later comes to be discovered, 69 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: according to the story, to be the out Ring Madan. 70 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: You know, so that this is particularly creepy to me 71 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 1: because of the phrasing of it. It implies that this 72 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: person is not part of the crew, and I think 73 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: that's not true. I think that it's probably just that 74 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: you know, there it's not maybe English isn't the first language, 75 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: or maybe I think it's the chain of command thing, 76 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: you got to give things in rank and order. But 77 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: it just seems like possibly whole crew. Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly, 78 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: but maybe met whole crew but me. But I remember, 79 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: this is a story that's been told many times, and 80 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: whoever the radio operator or operators were that wrote this down, 81 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: none of us have None of us have access to 82 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: that piece of paper they wrote the message. Yeah, so 83 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: there might be some in precision there ship certainly the 84 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: like I said before, the closest star, the closest ship 85 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: is the Silver Star. So she goes to lend aid. 86 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: And when the crew arrives, and I've seen again multiple accounts. 87 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: Some say the sea was calm and she was gently floating. 88 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: Some say the sea was rough and she was, you know, 89 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: being batted around by the ocean under no power. But 90 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: when they get to the ship and they discovered that 91 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: it is, according to the accounts, the houring mcdan. So 92 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: they came alongside and they boarded the ship. So that 93 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: that lens creates the theory that there was probably a 94 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: calm day if they were able to yeah, exactly. And 95 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 1: that's that was one of the things that I went see. 96 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: They was gonna ask you, is how exactly did they 97 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: get aboard this thing? Yea, it happened had been a 98 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: calmer at least calmer sees if nothing else. But then 99 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: having lived on a ship, I can tell you it 100 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: had to be pretty dang calm, okay something like. So 101 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: they get aboard and this is when the creep factors 102 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: starts to ratch it up. The entire crew is dead 103 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: all over the ship. According to the accounts, the entire 104 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: every crew member that they found was dead. And I 105 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: believe the phraseology is in a rictus of fear, so 106 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: their eyes are open, their hands are clawed, some of 107 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: them have their mouths open, you know, staring at the 108 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: skies as if they're screaming or scared to death of something. 109 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,679 Speaker 1: Even the ship's dog was frozen, and this rictus fear. 110 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: So we we don't know exactly what's going on at 111 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: this point. Now the Silver Star decides what we need 112 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: to figure out what's going on, and we need to 113 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: haul this ship back. And something's bad here, so they 114 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,559 Speaker 1: go to tire up and want to hauler back to port, 115 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: at which point somebody realizes that there is spoke coming 116 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: out of the hour Ring Madan. They cut the lines, 117 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: they pull away as quick as they can. The ship 118 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: explodes and sinks to the bottom. I feel like I 119 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: remember an account saying like it was lifted out of 120 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: the sea. It exploded so hard and like then just 121 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: sank within a matter. I've seen that account before, and 122 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: it's unclear. All we know is something happened and the 123 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: ship blew up and sank to the bottom. So whatever happened, 124 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: we have no way of knowing what that is. So 125 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: that's the end of the ship. So one other and 126 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: one and another telling of the story the crew of 127 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: the Silver Star went below decks and looking for looking 128 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: for anybody who was alive, went into an area not sure, 129 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: I'm not clear if it was the hold or exactly 130 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: where the machinery spaces, I don't know, but learning in 131 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: an area and it was cold, according to their account, 132 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: and then and then they came back above above decks 133 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: and that's when fire started to break out. And in 134 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: this telling of the story, there was no explosion, but 135 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: essentially the fire sank the ship. It broke the back 136 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: of the ship and the ship sank. So that's another 137 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: telling of the story. And that telling of the story 138 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: is out there as well. Yeah, so yeah, that's that's 139 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: as much as the story itself has ever given us well, 140 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: and it sounds like there are a lot of different 141 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: versions of this story, and you're absolutely right, and it's 142 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: it's been a story that again, like I said before, 143 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: we can't pin down was seven was. It's been floating around, told, 144 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: you know, word of mouth for many, many years, spending 145 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: of course, people have been looking for the log books 146 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: for the City of Baltimore and the Silver Star and 147 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: they can't find them, or else they find them, and 148 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: there's no mention of this incident in there. Well you know, 149 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: and correct me if I'm wrong, But ships get renamed 150 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: fairly frequently during this period of history, and they did so. 151 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: The Silver Star in particular, who is said to have 152 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: come to the aid of the Aluringmadan, was renamed shortly thereafter. 153 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: Because this is after the war. Ships are being used 154 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: and purchased and bought, and I believe the name it 155 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: got renamed to the Santa juan Ea or San Juanita. 156 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: They keep changing. And Lloyd's Registry, which if anybody doesn't know, 157 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: Lloyd's Registry is basically the registry of all ships. So 158 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: technically speaking, you should be able to find any ship 159 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: and all of the evolutions of its names in that 160 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: long and that's the problem that one of the initial 161 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: problems that we'll get into later. But the Alring Macdon 162 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: is not in there. It doesn't exist in that official 163 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: record of all seafaring vessels. Interesting, but let's let's we'll 164 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: come back to that because we got we'll get to 165 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: that a little bit later. I want to, as we 166 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: like to do, I want to I want to go 167 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: through all the theories that are out there and then 168 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: we can kind of hash them apart and we can 169 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 1: work our way through them. So the very first one 170 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: is akin to the Bermuda triangle. It was a u 171 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: would huge. So people say, this is the theory that 172 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: it was a UFO that came over the ship and 173 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: killed the entire crew and then took off sound. Well 174 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: that that doesn't explain why the ship blew up. That 175 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: that doesn't give there's no there's nothing, there's no facts 176 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: in there, There's nothing that a guy could hold on 177 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: to to say, oh, well, there was this weird thing 178 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: and then it happened. Like all we know is that 179 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: they were dead. And and you know, I mean the 180 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: UFO has swept them with the death ray. You would 181 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: think the radio operator, but it would have been killed 182 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: as fast as everybody else, Yeah, would have at the 183 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: same time. Yeah, And I've got to admit, you know, 184 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: when we talked to Roy, he had a really good 185 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: take on this UFOs frightening people to death. Well, why 186 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: haven't many other people been frightened to death by UFOs? 187 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: We found streets full of people and the rich to 188 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 1: Sophia lying on the pavement. You know, I don't think 189 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: we have I'm not quite sure about that. You know, 190 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: it was a possibility. There's some pretty bus as stories 191 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: around the UFO phenomena. The next theory that's on the 192 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: docket is that it didn't actually happen. There's a chance 193 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: that this entire story was made up, like an old 194 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: wives tale at old wives tale. I mean, if you 195 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: think about it, it's the late forties. Guys have seen 196 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: lots of weird stuff in the war, and maybe they've got, 197 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: you know, some version of PTSD, and so they don't 198 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: remember right what they saw, so they're reaccounting another story. 199 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: But the way they're telling it captures everybody's attention, much 200 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: like we heard, you know, when Roy was talking about 201 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: how he had heard it, and it just sticks with you. 202 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: And so the next time that creepy stories being told, 203 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: you retell it. And it might very well be. It 204 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: would be kind of funny if it might very well 205 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: be that the guy who told the story on Roy's 206 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: ship was actually the guy who made the whole thing up. 207 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: And you know, might he might be, I don't know, 208 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: And that's that's the that's the hard part is that 209 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: there's no records. Like we talked about it earlier, is 210 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: that you know, I said, there's there's no record of 211 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: this ship anywhere. Well, I guess the thing for me 212 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: is like when you think of ghost ship stories that 213 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: are made up, they usually take it to the next 214 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: extreme of like and it haunts the straits forevermore, killing 215 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: other people's ship, you know, you know, And I understand 216 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 1: like the impulse to say, well, you know, they were 217 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: just being practical and they're in their fake right, But 218 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: I just I generally think of if somebody's gonna fake it, 219 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: they tend to go all the way. You're absolutely right, 220 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: and a very well might have been made up. But 221 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: there's one way to check, and that is to find 222 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: the log books for the city of Baltimore and a 223 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: Silver Star and look in there and see if there's 224 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: any reference to this incident. You're right, and and there 225 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: was an original text that supposedly where the story came from, 226 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: which was in a publication from the U. S. Coast Guard. 227 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: For a long long time, I mean, no, nobody's been 228 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: able to find any records of the ship. And it's 229 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: only through the dogged research of Roy that we found 230 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: out about some of that stuff. The problem with the 231 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: whole thing is were did its originally what the old 232 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: guy who told me. It's c who was an old 233 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: guy who had been in the North Atlantic in the 234 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: U boat. Was you know, these were old guys who 235 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: knew every corner of the oceans of the world. Where 236 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: did he get it from? So according to Vincent Gaddis, 237 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: it had been a press report. But I've searched the 238 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: the newspaper library at Collingwood in North London looking for 239 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: all reports of shipping from forty seven fortunate eight, and 240 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: there's nothing masting the Orange Maerdan. I started then to think, well, 241 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: maybe it's one of these kind of silly season stories 242 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: where some high reporter thinks, I know what I'll do. 243 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: I'll just cobble this story together and put it on 244 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: the wires and everybody will go for it. But there 245 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: was something mentioned in gud Us, a story about a 246 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: report of the tragedy in the document called the Proceedings 247 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: of the Merchant Marine Council, which is part of the 248 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: publicity output for the US Coast Guard. Well, I could 249 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: never find this and I didn't believe it existed. I 250 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: thought Gaddis had made it up, But then recently a 251 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: friend in Australia managed to track it down. Sadly, although 252 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: it's an official report. It doesn't tell you anything more 253 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: than we know. It doesn't tell you where the ship 254 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: was from, where it was going, what porter had left. 255 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: I would expect more thorough documentation in a document like that. 256 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: There's nothing. It's just as if the legend has shoehorned 257 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: itself into into that particular area, that official area, as 258 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: if somebody and the Merchant Marine Council has said that 259 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: we're a better stick this Storian. But of course there's 260 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: now you would expect if you found the log book 261 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: of the Silver Star, obviously to of Baltimore, which I've 262 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: tried to do, you would expect that to be a 263 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: report in the low book giving the actual latitude and 264 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: longitude of this. Then you'll be able to pin it down. 265 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: But no, it doesn't. That doesn't happen either. I've written 266 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: to various sources trying to find out why the log 267 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: books might be. Of course, most of the companies that 268 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: we're running at that time, and it's just after the 269 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: Second World War, a lot of that documentation is probably 270 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: filed away in some floor in some buildings somewhere in 271 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: Boston and New York. We don't know. So I did 272 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,479 Speaker 1: a huge a lot of research into the Philadelphia experiment, 273 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: you know, like you know, making a ship invisible lovely idea, 274 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: you know, but there's there's a good explanation for all 275 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: of it. But it's a fantastic story. I have a 276 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: horrible feeling that that's what makes me think you around 277 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: Madan might be a red herring. I don't know, there's 278 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: something behind it. So obviously enough, the trail is cold. 279 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: There's not a lot of paperwork on the ship its 280 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: self that can be found at that point, which is 281 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: kind of weird. Again. Yeah, it's it's odd that there's 282 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: just so little, and we were lucky enough I had 283 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: gone ahead and when I was doing my research, and 284 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: this is why we got ahold of Roys. He was 285 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: the only one who seemed to have done a lot 286 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: of research on it, and he put forward a theory 287 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: which I have not really found anywhere else, that seems 288 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: pretty plausible and has done the legwork that I think 289 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: it lends in credence to maybe possibly being it all right, 290 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: then received a communication we seemed rather road from Germany 291 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: on very cranky, old typewritten envelope, and it was from 292 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: a wonderful guy who I got to be very friendly 293 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: with that he's died now, but it's an actual professor 294 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: of marine architecture called theatle sized door for and Theodore 295 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: had been on the track of the around Madon for 296 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: forty years, ever since the story broke, and he sent 297 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: me a photo copy of a thirty two page leaflet 298 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 1: which was in German by a guy called Otto Milky 299 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: m I E l k E. And this was from 300 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: and it was called us Total Shift under soot See, 301 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: which is the death ship of the Southern Seas. And 302 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: this was the Germans. I got the main parts of 303 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: it translated, and I thought, who is Otto Milky? And 304 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: I found out that the guy actually was a German 305 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: emy grave but he was actually living in my hometown 306 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: up in Hall in Yorkshire. So I went to look 307 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: for him and found out he died. So he was dead. 308 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: But he raised some interesting points about the death of 309 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: these sailors on the around Madan. That they could have 310 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: been carrying poison gases such as zayan carli which is 311 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: potassium cyanide and possibly explaining the explosion nitro glycering. Now 312 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: this if they had such a mixture on board, how 313 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: it would have gone and recorded is a mystery. But 314 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: you know, even fifty years ago, this would have ensured 315 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: reams and reams of paperwork to get this kind of 316 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: a cargo going. But if you think of the situation 317 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: which the Dutch had with their East Indies Empire after 318 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: the Second World War, they were trying to re establish 319 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: their foothold after the Japanese had been ejected from that 320 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: part of the world, and they had a lot to face. 321 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: Although the Japanese had gone, communist insurgency had sprung up 322 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: in their place, and there was a terrific battle, what 323 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: a lot of unpleasant imperialist genocide going on over there. 324 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: We could be talking about the Orangeadan if it existed 325 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: carrying a cargo of poison gas for use in this 326 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: campaign against the people who did not want the Dutch 327 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: to come back. You know, that's always a possibility, and 328 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: I have actually there is a possibility that you know, 329 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: if this was an accident on board the ship and 330 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: they were carrying an unsecured hazardous materials, there could have 331 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: been any kind of poisoning. You know, I looked into 332 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: other areas of what could have happened. Now if this 333 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: vessel was carrying poison gases, for use in a military campaign, 334 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: gases which were banned by international law, and gases which 335 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: would not have got a manifest as a cargo from 336 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: any shipping authority. Then it could have been a very 337 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: early example of what you guys called black op. Now 338 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: after the war, if you look at the records, and 339 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: this is where professors Sears Dover helped me immensely. Literally 340 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of German cargo ships or actually taken 341 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 1: over by the Allies, especially the British, for one particular reason, 342 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: and that was to dispose of poison gases which the 343 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: Nazis had manufactured. And these ships and I have a 344 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: list of all the ships, the tonnages, and I know 345 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,959 Speaker 1: where they've all been sank. They were taken out by 346 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: volunteer crews. They were loaded to the to the decks 347 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: which sarin tabne mustard gas and they were just sunk 348 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,959 Speaker 1: by opening the sea cocks or detonating a charge. Um. 349 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: These ships are actually lying on the bottom of the 350 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: let'll see the Atlantic, the Baltic, all over the place, Okay, 351 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: And that makes a lot of sense. It wouldn't be 352 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: that tough to take one of those things. Paying a 353 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: new name on his bow and then send it off, 354 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: you know, send it off somewhere if you think that 355 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 1: somebody somewhere needs some poison gas, or maybe somebody made 356 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: you an offer you couldn't refuse, or maybe you just 357 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,479 Speaker 1: wanted to make some money, or you wanted to get 358 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: rid of it and you didn't want it to be 359 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: able to get tracks to its original name. There's every 360 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: one of these is plausible. There's if if royce theory 361 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: is correct, and that they were packing these illegal substances 362 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: to to just scuttle it or to sell it or whatever, 363 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: and something went wrong, there's a there's a whole host 364 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: of reasons why that name could have just been made 365 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: up as you, as he said when we were talking 366 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: to him, somebody could have just leaned over the side, 367 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: taking a paintbrush and just painted a new name on it. 368 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: And absolutely, and if you're yeah, if you're going up 369 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: on some little special trips somewhere that you don't want 370 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: to you know, I don't want to have a high 371 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: profile or anything like that, you leave, you leave port, 372 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: then you paint your name a new name over the 373 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: top of the old name, and then later on, you know, 374 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: change it back. Yeah, and you know another hypothesis that 375 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: I should have came up with just now, you know, 376 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: but I like to speculate, and it's of course pure speculation, 377 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: of course, But in this hypothesis, the distress called did 378 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: not actually originate with the Orangemudon. It originated with another ship. 379 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: So now imagine that. Imagine the Orangemudon had some cargo, 380 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: whether it's poison gas or or just ordinary munitions or whatever, 381 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: that you don't want to see arriving at its destination. 382 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: And you don't have a navy to speak of, so 383 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: you can't send a battleship out and board it or 384 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 1: sink it or whatever. You've got to find a way 385 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: to get on that ship. So if you know where 386 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: it's going, and for example, you know it's going to 387 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: be going through the Straits of Malacca, because I mean basically, 388 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: if you're in the Pacific and you're saying heading over 389 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: towards India or the Mediterranean, whatever, you pretty much have 390 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: to go through the Straits of Malacca. A lot of 391 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: the world shipping goes through there. So supposing you know 392 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: when at lease ports, so you know roughly at speed, 393 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: you know when it's going to be in the straits. 394 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: If you have, say, afraid of yourself, than what you 395 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: can do is wait until it's reasonably close by the 396 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: closest ship there is, send out your distress call, and 397 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 1: then they come alongside. Like your ship which is sitting 398 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: there dead in the water. Now it's got stuff on it, 399 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: it's got maybe explosives, maybe poison gas. You don't really 400 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: want to have a firefight with these guys, So what 401 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: you do is, as they're pulling alongside, you just release 402 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: a lot of invisible toxic gas sarah and mustard gas whatever. 403 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: As they're pulling alongside to render aid. You basically gass them, 404 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: which is a nasty way to do some business. Is 405 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: a nasty way to do it. But if you know, 406 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, you don't want to have a firefight 407 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: with these guys, then gassing them as the next best solution. 408 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: Then you then you know you've got your gas masks 409 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: on already, of course, so you hop aboard and go 410 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,239 Speaker 1: to go down below decks, lance them incendy areas with timers, uh, 411 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: and then you leave, and of course you're you're stress 412 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: call has been picked up by either ships in the area. 413 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: So eventually some of the ships show up and they're 414 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: in time to witness the dead crew and then to 415 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: see the ship, you know, catch fire and then blow up. 416 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: This lends credence to the idea that there may have 417 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: been explosives for perhaps artillery shells or things like that. 418 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: And the one problem is that it is okay, so 419 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: again it's DoD They just blatantly faked the name on 420 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: the ship because again it's that name is not able 421 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: to be pinned down anyway. That's the hard part. I 422 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: like where you're going, and there's p there's plausibility in that. 423 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: I also remember that they did find the operator, the 424 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: telegram operator, dead at his post having sent those messages, 425 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: didn't they when they boarded the ship. That's what the 426 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: story says, although to be fair it is Yeah, it's 427 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: just that is a sixty plus year old story that 428 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, some guy could have said, and they found 429 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: those sparks dead at his station. Yeah, you just don't know, Yeah, 430 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: you know. And there are so many things with this thing, 431 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: right that you just don't know. I mean, okay, toxic 432 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: gases fine, but like how many toxic gases like actually 433 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: kill someone fast enough to have a rigor of fear? 434 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: Just like, yeah, and how do you that blow decks? 435 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: That's the hard part. If they're just pulling alongside and 436 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: you're gassing them, how do you get it blow decks? Uh, 437 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: you know, that's a good question. I don't know. And 438 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: again we don't know. I presume that you pick something 439 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: that's heavier than air and if you send a massive 440 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: enough cloud of it over there. It's just there's so 441 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: many different questions. Yeah, and I don't I don't know 442 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: what the I don't know what the you know, this 443 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: would be a sailor question. But say say, for example, 444 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: you do pick up a distress call from another ship. 445 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: You know, you've been at sea for weeks, nothing about 446 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 1: interesting has happened. Now suddenly you know you're coming alongside 447 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: some ship that's in distress, and of course you're hoping 448 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: it gets hoped that maybe this will be a nice 449 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: ghost ship and you have a great story for your grandkids, 450 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: you know. So maybe the entire crew was up on 451 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: deck for this, this whole event, that to come and 452 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: see the ship that was that was reporting that everybody 453 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: is dead. But the end, what they didn't realize is 454 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: they were gonna be the ones that are gonna every Yeah, 455 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: that's that's true. Yeah. The people I'm thinking about, is 456 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: this happened eight. I'm thinking about the the Israelis. You know, 457 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: as you know, the UN partition Palestine in seven war 458 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: immediately broke out between Israel and the Arabs. The state 459 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: of Israel was created in ninety eight. And the Israelis 460 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,959 Speaker 1: have a history of a very very clever and very 461 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 1: effective solutions to problems. So if they did indeed intercept 462 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: an arms shipment, that could be one cute and that 463 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: could be one way to do it without shooting, without 464 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: without firing a shot, just gas, the crew plants some 465 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: bombs leave. It's entirely possible. That's entirely possible. And as 466 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: far as the name change goes, uh, you know, it 467 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: might have been one of those things to change the 468 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: name of the ship in transit, just to make it 469 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: harder to track you. So you pop, you pop out 470 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: of one port, you change your name, and whatever ports 471 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: you stop in, nobody can. Nobody can really track you 472 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: because you know, they don't know this Ramadan ship, so 473 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: it makes it harder to track. Well, let's let's move 474 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: to the next theory. Yeah, okay, So the next theory 475 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: is that there was nothing foul or defarious that happened, 476 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: but it was a simple mechanical failure. And by that 477 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,959 Speaker 1: I mean a boiler room fire shifts. At this time, 478 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: a lot of them ran on coal. So if the 479 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: boiler itself is malfunctioning, and you know, those ships burn 480 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: massive amounts of coal to create their propulsion, it's gonna 481 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: be pumping out a lot of c O two. C 482 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: O two is heavier than air, So of course, what's 483 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: that mean is that if a fire breaks out and 484 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: they don't realize it right away, the whole of the 485 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: ship is first going to start filling with c O two, 486 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: which is going to smother all crew members as the 487 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: gas rises up because of the volume, until it's at 488 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: a great volume that spills out the top, which would 489 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: then suffocate all the crew members, which dying from from 490 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: that kind of assixiation is not a pleasant way to go, 491 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: And that would explain the the supposed expressions on the 492 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: people's face. You know, if you think about it, and 493 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: you're dying, you're gasping for air, you're gonna have a 494 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: very panic look on your face when you finally go. Probably, yeah, 495 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: I just I don't know. I don't totally know the 496 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,479 Speaker 1: science behind. If you're standing on like an open air 497 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: deck of a ship, you're right. And and the thing 498 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: that I was gonna say is, if we think about it, 499 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: that area of the world that it was supposed to 500 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: happen in is a very hot tropical area, which means 501 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: they would probably have windows and ports open to get 502 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: any kind of airflow possible to breathe. And also it 503 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: probably depends on how windy it is. If it was 504 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: a very windless day, and then you know, it could 505 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: have been that this cloud of CEO two or carbon 506 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: monoxide or whatever didn't didn't clear away quickly. Supposing it's 507 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: a totally clear day, Um, they could have windows. But 508 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: you know, I believe it's portholes. Portholes um. You know, 509 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: modern day ships don't have that pass you know, like 510 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: lower than like the fifth or sixth deck, that open 511 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: um simply, you know, because a ship it rolls and 512 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: you know it's on the sea and you have waves 513 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: and splashes, and you don't want water on the inside 514 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: of your ship at all, like periods it's bad news. Um. 515 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: So in most of the time, a ship, unless it's 516 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: like a cruise line or something just isn't going to 517 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: have windows. They're just knocked on. I mean, they might 518 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: have a couple like in a captain's hold, like up 519 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: near the top decks or something like very good point, 520 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: but they are kind of weak points where they're weak points. 521 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: And those ships are basically just like slap a couple 522 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: of pieces of steel together, and he's got a ship. Well, 523 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: and so here's if we follow this theory down his trail. 524 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: He's that then of course, once it's killed the crew, 525 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: this carbon monoxide poisoning, at that point the aid would arrive. 526 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: They would then realize that there was smoke happening, and 527 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: that boiler room fire is then what would have made 528 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: the ship catch fire and explode and sink to the bottom. Okay, 529 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: and then I guess I have another problem with this 530 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: is that how quickly could the ships have responded? Right, 531 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: you assume that this ship has been out for hours 532 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: at least, and I don't know, you know, I don't 533 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: think we have the information on distance between the ships 534 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: that were responding and alright, madana or anything like that, 535 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: you know, but a fire for hours. Again, I'll say, 536 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: having lived on a ship, I understand that even ships 537 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: made to be fire resistant. An hour of a fire 538 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: of the magnitude that could produce that much poison air 539 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: is not going to allow a ship to stay afloat 540 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: for then Yeah, it's not out, but then the ship 541 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: is probably already sunk. Yeah, very true. Well it's conceivable 542 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: that you know, one of the one of the keys 543 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: to fighting fires on ships is to shut the shut 544 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: that say, if it's below decks, evacuate personnel, shut the hatches, 545 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: and turn and turn the diesels on it. They're not already, 546 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: that's exactly what you do. You try and starve the fire. However, 547 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: in that situation, if you expose, if if the fire 548 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: is not out, well exactly, somebody in the door, and 549 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: you get what I don't remember what they call it 550 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: the technical term, but you basically get this like fire 551 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: explosion happening out background. Yes, back to exactly. So you 552 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: would not then be able to like fully evacuate the 553 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: ship and have it explode with all of your crew 554 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: back on the ship. Right, it's a very backlash is 555 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: a really quick thing. That Okay, so but that could 556 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: be let's let's let's say that the initial crew had 557 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: tried to contain it and had been killed in that process, 558 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,760 Speaker 1: and they had bottled the ship up with the intention 559 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: of killing the fire, but of course they still all die. 560 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: And then the responding the rescue ship arrives and not 561 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: knowing what's happening, they open a couple of doors that 562 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: don't necessarily allow a huge backdraft happen. But suddenly they 563 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 1: allow the fire to get fuel again. Then then then 564 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: that's a possibility. I guess that's true. Yeah, you know, 565 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: it's my understanding of this explosion that happens, that it 566 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: happens pretty immediately. But it's true that if they recording 567 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: the movie that they made back in the nineties, it's 568 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: super fast and vicious. It's hard to say none of 569 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 1: us have had to experience that stories, but yeah, they 570 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: only don't know. Yeah, the only problem I have with 571 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: the fires, the whole fire theory, is that the the 572 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: radio operator, I think would have mentioned that there was 573 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 1: a fire on the ship. You think that it wouldn't 574 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: have been like some mysterious doug they think people are 575 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: all dead. Oh now, I dot you know, And so 576 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: let's let's continue on to the next theory that also 577 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: deals with gas, okay, and that is methane gas and this, 578 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: I admit, is kind of a far flung theory. I 579 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,959 Speaker 1: haven't farfetched farfetched, thank you. I haven't found a lot 580 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,800 Speaker 1: of places that this is reference, and personally it doesn't 581 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: hold a lot of ground for me, but we'll go 582 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: over it. So the theory is is, of course, that 583 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: on the ocean floor there are there's volcanic activity, and 584 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,280 Speaker 1: there's pockets of all kinds of stuff trapped in the earth. 585 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: This theory says that the hour Ing m Dan was 586 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the 587 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: wrong time when there was some kind of seismic activity 588 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: and a massive pocket of methane gas was released. So 589 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: run with me on this. This this is a little 590 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,720 Speaker 1: hard to track with, but this is this giant release 591 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: of gas comes boiling out of the ocean, surrounds the 592 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: ship as it's all being released, and of course the 593 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 1: methane is going to push all the oxygen out, which 594 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: is then in turn gonna kill all of the crew 595 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,240 Speaker 1: members because you can't breathe that gas. It doesn't explain 596 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 1: the explosion, but it explains potentially how the crew could 597 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: have died. But if we go back to the boiler 598 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: room issue, let's say the crew is suddenly dead and 599 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 1: the boilers running hot and it's left unmanned. Then maybe that, 600 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,959 Speaker 1: you know, maybe these two theories come together. But I don't. 601 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: I don't put a lot of stock in it. But 602 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: it's something that's out there. Yeah, I think these things happen. 603 00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,800 Speaker 1: I think we have to kind of acoms razor this 604 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: right that I think too, like really unlikely events coming together. 605 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: You would think that some you know, when that that 606 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: method is rising out of the ocean, there's some some 607 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: crew member or a no that would have lit a 608 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: smoke and you know that would have touched the entire 609 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: cloud off. Yeah, you would think the boiler, right, the boiler. Yeah. 610 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: So I don't. I don't hold a lot of stock 611 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: in that one. Yeah, I I freely admit that. Uh So, 612 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: the last theory that we have is again an unusual take, 613 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:43,240 Speaker 1: but a very interesting one, and this is Yamashita is gold. 614 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: Oh so roy is the one who told us this theory. 615 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: So let's let's have him tell us how that possibility 616 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: could have run That there is another possibility that this 617 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: could be parts of Yamashita's gold. Are you familiar with 618 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: Yamashita's gold? No, yeah, I have. I've already heard about 619 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:07,800 Speaker 1: yams gold. Gold is like the accumulated gold Ingot's jewelry 620 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: coinage and similar precious and semi precious articles which were 621 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,240 Speaker 1: collected from all the official storages, banks, minds, churches and temples, 622 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: from all the inhabitants of all the Southeast Asian countries 623 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: by the invading Japanese. It's the same thing that the 624 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: Nazis did in Europe, you know, right with the conquerors 625 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: will have anything we want. And whereas the Nazis put 626 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,479 Speaker 1: everything into Swiss banks and then transferred it to South 627 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: America after the war under himless instructions, and then five 628 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 1: years after the war died down, all the German industrialists 629 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,320 Speaker 1: brought the money back into the country and you have 630 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: the great economic recovery with the Japanese a lot of 631 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: their gold they had to leave too quickly. So whilst 632 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: the quantity and the value can only be guessed, that 633 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: it is known to have been a considerable amount of money, 634 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,879 Speaker 1: and it was all assembled apparently in Singapore same time 635 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,320 Speaker 1: they were assembling original aus gases. Now let's suppose, for instance, 636 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: if we're talking about black ops, let's suppose that the 637 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: Haranguema Dan was floating full of Yamashita's gold and it 638 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: was intercepted by these two ships and then blown up 639 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: and sank with this wonderful, spooky cover story. You know, 640 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: it's it's a far out idea, I admit, but it's 641 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's one. As many solutions as you can 642 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: think of, you can just add to them, and somewhere 643 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: in those lists of solutions is the answer. But we 644 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: don't know what it is because the ship has been 645 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,439 Speaker 1: wiped out the pages of history. It's it's not there, 646 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: and we are now out of theories. Yes, okay, so 647 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: we've we've gone through quite a few theories and a 648 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: lot of research that still kind of runs us into 649 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: dead ends. And that's all we've got. So this, I 650 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 1: mean again, it's it could be a black op. It 651 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: could be a red herring. It could be some kind 652 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: of fire, it could be some kind of hijacking with 653 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: the gold. It could be totally made up, totally made up. 654 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: I'm kind of leaning towards that, I to admit it. 655 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: I agree with Joe talking to Roy, who is you know, 656 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: Mr Baby has done a ton and ton of leg 657 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: work over a long amount of time. He really has, 658 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: and he does this stuff constantly, and I've got to say, 659 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: if I had my to just give it a face value. 660 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,240 Speaker 1: When I first saw this, I didn't know. But after 661 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: getting all of the facts, I personally I hate to 662 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 1: say it. I think I think it's fake. Very well 663 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: could be. But hey, let's you know, we'll leave it 664 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,399 Speaker 1: up to our listeners own take on it. Everybody sees something. 665 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what you think on this one, 666 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, and I think I think a face it's 667 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 1: probably fake. I think it's interesting. There are just enough 668 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: records for this to be a true mystery, right. It's plausible. 669 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: You know, it was in this article in a fairly 670 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: reputable source of the US Coast Guard. This story. You know, 671 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: you would kind of think that if this were just 672 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: a fake, they wouldn't run something like that, And that 673 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 1: was the April Fools issue. But you know, there's something 674 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 1: to be said for like a story that's repeated so 675 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: many times under the guise of being true that people 676 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,839 Speaker 1: just say, oh, it's true. So I guess we'd better 677 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: get on top of it. I believe the phrase that 678 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: we heard in the interview was it shoehorned itself, which 679 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 1: is a great way to put it. Yeah. So, but 680 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,919 Speaker 1: I you know, I understand the impulse to say it's fake, 681 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: but I like, I like to root for like the Thunderdog. 682 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: I really want to say that it's real, that we 683 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: just don't know. I think that that something is being suppressed, 684 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,879 Speaker 1: that it was during the war, right after the war, 685 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 1: and probably somebody among our listeners are millions of listeners 686 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: was involved in this operation. If it was indeed a 687 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 1: black op, it wasn't a black op. Maybe maybe your 688 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,240 Speaker 1: grandfather was on the Silver Star. So you know, please 689 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,120 Speaker 1: contact us. Yeah, I'd also I'd also like to put 690 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:33,839 Speaker 1: it out to our listeners to We want you all 691 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,720 Speaker 1: to go to our website and leave us a comment 692 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: and tell us what your favorite theory is. Don't you 693 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: think that's fair. I think we should listen to our listeners. Yeah, 694 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,839 Speaker 1: I mean I think that people there as we We've 695 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: covered a bunch of theories, and you know, these are 696 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,840 Speaker 1: pretty much just the most viable theories. I'm sure there 697 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: are many many there, and again I haven't even I'm 698 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: so torn. I'm really torn on this because so many 699 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 1: things seemed plausible and it seems like it should be real. 700 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: And then this is this is why I have to admit, guys, 701 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,359 Speaker 1: this is the first story that we've talked about where 702 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: I've thrown up my hands and said that's it. I 703 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that I believe anymore. Yeah, you know. 704 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: And that's that's really an interesting point. You know. We've 705 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,440 Speaker 1: talked about some stories where it's like, well, obviously I 706 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: feel like this person is faking it, or the story 707 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: has these really mundane origins and have just has just 708 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,839 Speaker 1: been built up. But I think this one, in particular, 709 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:37,919 Speaker 1: there's so much yeah, here's it's really easy to say, wow, 710 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: who knows, you know, It's so easy to say it's 711 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 1: just an old wives tale, And then it's very easy 712 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: to imagine that people of as we said, she hoorned 713 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,720 Speaker 1: this into the history books or not based on whatever, 714 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 1: you know. I think that Roy said that he got 715 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: a letter from the Dutch Navy saying, uh, we hear 716 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: you know a lot about the oreto with Dan. We 717 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 1: would like to know what you know, please, uh you know, 718 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 1: and it was I think that's really indicative of this story. 719 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: It's that and that that it just is perfect because 720 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: either it's the Navy saying okay, we need to know 721 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,279 Speaker 1: if we need to like off this guy or it's 722 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: the Navy saying, Okay, this guy's presenting these this story 723 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,439 Speaker 1: in a really straightforward, a believable way, and we don't 724 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: know about it, you know, so it's well, yeah, they 725 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: wanted to find out if it was true too. I mean, 726 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: there's like, you know, you call our story about the 727 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 1: Glomar explorer. Yeah, and they came up with a fictitious 728 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 1: story that Hughes Corporation was going to mind manganese modules 729 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 1: from the ocean floor, which was a story that's just 730 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,919 Speaker 1: part of the cover story and the cover side of it. Yeah, 731 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: just just a cover story. And uh and and and 732 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 1: they actually they actually publicized it and talked it up 733 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: quite a bit, to the point that a couple of 734 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,920 Speaker 1: other companies actually started investing huge amounts of money and 735 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: doing the same thing. I mean, they really got punked 736 00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,800 Speaker 1: by this. That all this bs and it happens to 737 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,719 Speaker 1: all kinds of people. That happens to news organizations and 738 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: governments and everything. Yeah, I don't know, ladies and gentlemen, 739 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: if you have your own theories on this, we would 740 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 1: love to hear about them. You can always go to 741 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,480 Speaker 1: our website, which is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. Uh, 742 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,440 Speaker 1: feel free to leave comments on this or any of 743 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 1: the stories that's on there. We we love to hear 744 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 1: where the listeners have to say and what our thoughts 745 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 1: are on the stellary. Tell us what your favorite theory is. 746 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: We want to hear it. Yeah, you can't always go 747 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,279 Speaker 1: ahead if you want. If you you prefer to just 748 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,919 Speaker 1: chat with us directly because we love doing that as well. 749 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,880 Speaker 1: Is get ahold of us via email, So you can 750 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: send us an email at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail 751 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,239 Speaker 1: dot com. And we've gotten emails before and we've corresponded 752 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 1: with folks back and forth, and we love to do that. 753 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,080 Speaker 1: We loved about these things around. So if you've got 754 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: you've got something in there, and if you've got a 755 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,000 Speaker 1: theory that's in there that we haven't done before, let 756 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,879 Speaker 1: us know and and we will go over in her. Heck, 757 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 1: if you know a story that we haven't done and 758 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 1: you'd like to hear us do I would absolutely love 759 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,160 Speaker 1: to hear from you because we have gotten some good 760 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 1: stories in the past and I know we're going to 761 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,960 Speaker 1: get some good ones in the future. Yeah. With that 762 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 1: that said, ladies and gentlemen, this ship has sailed and 763 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,880 Speaker 1: we're gonna wrap this one up for the night. So 764 00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,239 Speaker 1: thank you for for taking a time to to listen 765 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,359 Speaker 1: to us again. We do want to give a big 766 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,680 Speaker 1: shout out to Roy Baton. Roy, thank you so much 767 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 1: for chatting with us. You really really helped us out 768 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,960 Speaker 1: and we appreciate it and we look forward to to 769 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,239 Speaker 1: chatting with Roy again in the future. I absolutely have 770 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,160 Speaker 1: to make that happen again. Absolutely, it was a pleasure 771 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,360 Speaker 1: talking to you, Roy. And by the way, after you 772 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 1: hear the episode and you hear my outline ish new theory, 773 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,000 Speaker 1: just give me a call. I'm dying of all right, 774 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, thank you again and we will talk 775 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 1: to you next week.