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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Thursday, July tenth. I'm Stephanie

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Speaker 2: Leidecker and I head of KAT Studios, where we make

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Speaker 2: true crime podcasts and documentaries, and I get to do

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Speaker 2: that with Courtney Armstrong and Body Move In. We have

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Speaker 2: a stacked knight of headlines tonight, Kanye West being brought

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Speaker 2: in for sexual assault and possible sex trafficking. Also, we

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Speaker 2: have a very special guest with us tonight. The mother

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Speaker 2: of victim Shade Robinson will be joining us to tell

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Speaker 2: us about her epic strength and turning her grief into purpose.

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan will be joining us to talk all

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Speaker 2: things forensics in the Idaho Student College Murders. Also, he

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Speaker 2: appears in the documentary Joseph I'm here. Oh there's that voice.

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Speaker 2: We love Hi Joseph. How are you?

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Speaker 3: Ladies? Herr? We all to see me. It's good to

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Speaker 3: join you. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: We're so glad to hear you and we missed you.

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Speaker 4: I only wish we were in the same room tonight

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Speaker 4: because Joseph. Not only am I wearing a body Bags

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Speaker 4: with Joseph Scott Morgan shirt hot merch from your podcast,

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Speaker 4: but mine is signed. Mine is signed.

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Speaker 3: Oh my lord.

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Speaker 5: Yes, Stephanie saw it and she was like, where did

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Speaker 5: you get that?

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you for that. I really appreciate things are

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Speaker 3: going great with body Bags, and I can't tell you

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Speaker 3: how much I appreciate you guys mentioning it. It's a

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Speaker 3: daily blessing and a curse to work as hard as

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Speaker 3: I work, you know, to do it. But I like

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Speaker 3: to like to keep my fans informed, and I think

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Speaker 3: we do a pretty dog gone good job at it.

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Speaker 3: Right now, we're doing teaching series every week. There's one

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Speaker 3: episode where you can learn basic forensics in one of

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Speaker 3: our episodes. That's varied. So that's been a lot of

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Speaker 3: fun to do. Put that together.

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Speaker 5: Ooh wow, I'm interested to listen to that. I'm into that.

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Speaker 3: It segues really well because I just have done an

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Speaker 3: episode on the basics of sharp force injuries and bron Coburger.

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Speaker 3: That case has featured prominently in there.

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Speaker 2: Brian Coberger, who was accused of killing four students, was

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Speaker 2: facing the death sentence trial in August, and now he just,

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Speaker 2: you know, fairly abruptly, that's an understatement, changed his plea

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Speaker 2: to guilty, and we're waiting now for his sentencing hearing,

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Speaker 2: and we'll know more about that next week. But now

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Speaker 2: that this is kind of a wrap in terms of

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Speaker 2: who did it, now we really want to understand the

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Speaker 2: why did it and also get access to some of

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Speaker 2: the details that either a haven't been released to the

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Speaker 2: press because there was a trial coming up, or that

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Speaker 2: we weren't comfortable sharing because we wanted to be very

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Speaker 2: mindful about not convicting him in the press.

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Speaker 6: So now the gloves are off and Joseph.

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Speaker 2: One of the big things that was you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of covered pretty extensively, but I really want to get

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Speaker 2: into it with you from a forensic standpoint. Is the house,

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Speaker 2: this infamous house that you know these off campus housing.

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Speaker 2: You know, we've all kind of lived that life, or

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Speaker 2: at least seen it from a distance. There were six

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Speaker 2: kids living there. It was a really odd house in

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Speaker 2: terms of just the layout. There was a third floor

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Speaker 2: and a second floor and staircases all over. It was

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Speaker 2: kind of a gutsy house to roll into when the

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Speaker 2: wee warning to murder four people. So number one, Ryan Coburger,

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Speaker 2: he's got some real you know what dare I say?

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Speaker 2: And then also that house was ultimately demolished probably over

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Speaker 2: a year ago now by the university. They just you know,

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Speaker 2: felt it was a stain on the town and to

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Speaker 2: heartbreaking for students to be near. That's one perspective that,

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Speaker 2: of course we understand, and the other was, look houses

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Speaker 2: hold forensics and the trial hadn't happened. If he's innocent,

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Speaker 2: would you want some of that possibility of maybe some

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Speaker 2: uncaught forensics to be used at your trial?

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Speaker 6: Obviously now he said he's.

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Speaker 2: Guilty, or if you're you know, a victim's family member,

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Speaker 2: and some of them felt very strongly about this at

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Speaker 2: the time. There may be a piece of information there,

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Speaker 2: and why would we destroy this possible evidence prior to

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Speaker 2: a trial? And maybe more importantly, if there was going

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Speaker 2: to be a trial. Sometimes jurors as a group are

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Speaker 2: brought to a crime scene, and sometimes going to that

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Speaker 2: crime scene kind of standing there really sets the stage.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we all know what that's like. Having been

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Speaker 2: at many ourselves. There's kind of no way to really

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Speaker 2: describe it, like the air feels different, and that was

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Speaker 2: no longer an option because obviously it was demolished. So

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Speaker 2: I'm curious what you guys think about it. Joseph, what's

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Speaker 2: your take on all this?

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Speaker 3: Uh? You know, I reflect back to the old adage

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Speaker 3: if walls to talk, and we think about that, you know,

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Speaker 3: when we are to a historic place, but from forensically,

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Speaker 3: if those walls could talk, at those floors, katak at

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Speaker 3: the ceiling could talk, the doors all at points of access,

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Speaker 3: all of that stuff. And there's been a lot made

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Speaker 3: I think of prior to and I've heard this time

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Speaker 3: and again. I've heard that components of the house were

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Speaker 3: taken out, okay, and I think that some people have

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Speaker 3: used this as a justification to say that, well, you know,

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Speaker 3: it would it would have been unsafe for people to

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Speaker 3: go in there, and that sort of thing. I've never

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Speaker 3: understood why you would take such big pieces of the

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Speaker 3: house out so you could no longer contextualize it. Again,

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Speaker 3: always revert back to Parkland. That thing was locked down

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Speaker 3: forever and ever. Eight men and I've worked hundreds of

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Speaker 3: homicides over the course of my career, and I can.

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Speaker 3: I was talking to a colleague about this not too

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Speaker 3: long ago. We were comparing notes, and it's like, I

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Speaker 3: don't ever recall a case where had a house that

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Speaker 3: was torn down because even a multiple homicide occurred there.

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Speaker 3: You know, It's just it's something. It was so odd

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Speaker 3: to me. Most of the time when we take components

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Speaker 3: out of house at a prom scene, most of those

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Speaker 3: times it's going to be because, for instance, if a

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Speaker 3: bullet goes into the drawwall, we would take out section

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Speaker 3: of the wall so that we could get trajectories. Okay,

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Speaker 3: but there's no trajectories here. The only thing that you're

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Speaker 3: talking about here is bloodstains deposition. Well, if you take

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Speaker 3: a wall out, okay, how are you gonna how are

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Speaker 3: you going to analyze that relative to the rest of

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Speaker 3: the space, because you've eradicated the rest of the space

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Speaker 3: at that time, it's no longer the same structure as

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Speaker 3: it once was. So I'd have to go back to

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Speaker 3: the beginning. What's irrationale for taking out these huge components

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Speaker 3: in the house.

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Speaker 5: And we know they did, right, We know they did

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Speaker 5: when the SBI went and did the faral target scan

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Speaker 5: on Halloween and I think twenty twenty three, we could

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Speaker 5: see in the house because the windows were you know,

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Speaker 5: blinds were pulled back and we can see inside Maddie's

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Speaker 5: room specifically, and a big chunk of wall that would

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Speaker 5: have been next to her desk, right in front of

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Speaker 5: her door, a huge chunk of wall was gone. So

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Speaker 5: we know, to your point, Joseph, they took they took

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Speaker 5: massive pieces of walls.

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Speaker 2: So you know, when like.

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Speaker 5: When we're talking about the jury visiting, you know, one

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Speaker 5: of the arguments that I that I often run across

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Speaker 5: online is well, the jury needs to didn't know why

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Speaker 5: the roommates didn't, you know, freak out. They need to

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Speaker 5: go in and see what people think there. And my

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Speaker 5: point back to them is, well, the walls were removed,

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Speaker 5: acoustics are going to be completely different, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that yeah, that the horses left the bar. And

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Speaker 3: at that point, because you're looking, you're you're trying to

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Speaker 3: understand the acoustics in that house because it's such you know,

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Speaker 3: Steph had mentioned about how what an odd ball structure

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Speaker 3: this is, right, and you know on that third floor,

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Speaker 3: if you're in the basement, okay, if you're the one

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Speaker 3: roomy that's down in the basement. Are you actually going

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Speaker 3: to be able to hear anything on the third floor? Well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I have no idea, and I don't know. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if they ran acoustic testing there, so that would

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Speaker 3: be that that's a huge question. And again I'm not

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Speaker 3: I'm not a real big fan of tearing things down

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Speaker 3: because it puts people's feelings. I mean, I'm sorry, you know, again,

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Speaker 3: I returned back to the family. The families were not

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Speaker 3: in favor of this, and their feelings are hurt more

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Speaker 3: than anybody else. I can guarantee you that. I just

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Speaker 3: don't I don't understand why you would do it. But

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Speaker 3: again it's a moot point. Now, I'd like to know

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Speaker 3: what they did take. I'd like to know what they

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Speaker 3: analyzed and maybe when or what conclusions they arrived at.

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Speaker 3: You know, we had talked about footprints at one point

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Speaker 3: in time, you know where you know those infamous van

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Speaker 3: Van shoes, you know, And yeah, the testing that went

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Speaker 3: on there was there actually a bloody footprint left back

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Speaker 3: left there. And I can understand if you're going to

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Speaker 3: take up a tile, yeah, you would take that in

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Speaker 3: the individual tile or even a segment of hard with flooring,

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Speaker 3: and you would analyze that, but why are you throwing

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Speaker 3: the baby out with the bathwater. I just I don't

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Speaker 3: understand it from a broader sense.

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Speaker 4: I think Joseph that money played a role, right or wrong.

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Speaker 4: It was over a million dollars. I think it was

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Speaker 4: about one point two million dollars that was spent on security,

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Speaker 4: and between what the university was paying for increased campus

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Speaker 4: security and security consultants and even extra for the Idaho

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Speaker 4: State Police. Yeah too. And I actually had just checked

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Speaker 4: myself a couple of times or it's it's the same

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Speaker 4: number in several sources. Yeah, one point two million dollars,

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Speaker 4: So right or wrong, I do think finances was part

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Speaker 4: of it. I also remember the university at the time

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Speaker 4: making a statement that he's not bad for business, bad

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Speaker 4: for the students.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't we actually looked into and at the time,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if this has changed since this,

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Speaker 2: you know, initial conversation that we had had about it

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Speaker 2: when it was being debated, it didn't affect enrollment at all.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, we are very sensitive to the

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Speaker 2: notion that you know, kids are walking around, but it

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Speaker 2: wasn't on campus and it isn't a culpa sac and

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Speaker 2: it was an active crime scene. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: and I know this only because of working with the

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Speaker 2: great Joseph Scott Morgan. You know, sometimes it's the cement

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Speaker 2: in and around the area, right, things that can get

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Speaker 2: disrupted by all the foot traffic in and out of

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Speaker 2: a house because they're doing their investigation. And maybe more significantly,

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Speaker 2: it's the feeling. I mean, I get it from like

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Speaker 2: the nuts and bolts of it all. And ye know,

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Speaker 2: there are so many examples of trials where a video

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Speaker 2: or you know, the technology is so extraordinary these days

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Speaker 2: that's really equally as great. I just think in this

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Speaker 2: one there was such an eeriness to it that in

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Speaker 2: a sadness that sometimes that really gives a real sense

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Speaker 2: to jurors who are really being forced to understand a

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Speaker 2: lot of forensics. Sometimes the feeling is more moving than anything,

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Speaker 2: so you don't get too lost in the sauce.

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Speaker 5: Do we know that the jurors would have been able

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Speaker 5: to even go in this house though, like they're in Boise, right,

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Speaker 5: and that's what's a six hours at the time though.

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Speaker 6: Really moving.

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Speaker 3: It hadn't been moved at that time, and that still

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Speaker 3: would have been feasible. And you know, again, you know,

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Speaker 3: it goes back, and I really wonder, you know, of

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Speaker 3: course we'll never really know where they're going to sequester

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Speaker 3: the jury. They have the ability to do it in Moscow,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, because you would, you know, you want

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Speaker 3: to check them out. Every time I've been involved in

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Speaker 3: one of these visitations out to a crime scene, it's

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Speaker 3: like there's like they pile everybody on a bus and

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Speaker 3: there's a police escort, and you you feel the police presence.

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Speaker 3: The defense is there, the the defendant is there. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of weird. The judge is there, the jury

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Speaker 3: is there, and they locked everything down. It's it's almost

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Speaker 3: like a it's a real it's a real issue logistically

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Speaker 3: to do that, and you pile on a six hour

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Speaker 3: car ride to get there, if it is actually that far,

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Speaker 3: I think it is. But to leave, you know, leave

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Speaker 3: you know, Ada County, and drive all the way back

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Speaker 3: to Moscow. You know, it's a herculean task, to say

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Speaker 3: the very least. But again, the common denominator in all

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Speaker 3: of these are four lives lost. Yeah, that's what got Flouncy.

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Speaker 3: What kind of price tag is anybody going to put

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Speaker 3: on that, thank you. What kind of level of inconvenience

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Speaker 3: can you put on that? You can't. There's nothing that

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Speaker 3: trump's what these kids had to endure in those last

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Speaker 3: seconds of their lives and what these parents will endure

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Speaker 3: for the rest of their lives.

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Speaker 2: It's never ending grief. And not to mention we know

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Speaker 2: he's not because he's a monster and a killer. Now

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Speaker 2: that we know this by his own admission, what if

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Speaker 2: he was innocent at the time he was claiming it,

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Speaker 2: you would want all the information there.

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Speaker 4: That's right, and listen stick with us. After the break,

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Speaker 4: we are continuing with Joseph Scott Morgan, and we have

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Speaker 4: several your questions. I hope you add yours to the

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Speaker 4: pot and call us at eight of eight three one crime,

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Speaker 4: Keep it here, True Crime Tonight, We're talking true crime

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Speaker 4: all the time.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker, and I'm

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Speaker 2: here with Courtney Armstrong, Body Move In, and the great

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, the best forensics expert we know. Joseph's

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Speaker 2: been in all of our podcasts. The Idaho Massacre, the

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Speaker 2: piked In massacre. Frankly all of them crazy. It also

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Speaker 2: has this very oh crazy in love that's right. He

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Speaker 2: also has his very own podcast called body Bags and

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Speaker 2: it's excellent, please check it out. And he also appears

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Speaker 2: in our current documentary on Peacock the Idaho student Murders,

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Speaker 2: which is what we're talking about now if you haven't

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Speaker 2: been following that case, four incredible Idaho students were murdered

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Speaker 2: back in twenty twenty two, and the accused, Brian Coberger,

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Speaker 2: was set to really face a death sentence trial this summer,

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Speaker 2: and very surprisingly and shockingly week and a half ago,

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Speaker 2: he confesses. He confesses and changes his plea to guilty.

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Speaker 2: Now we're just waiting on the sentencing hearing to be

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Speaker 2: decided upon, and we were all left a little shook

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Speaker 2: and mad and upset. And you know, even on our

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Speaker 2: podcast The Idaho Massacre, we talk about the forensics with

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Speaker 2: Joseph pretty extensively, because again this was a total bloodbath.

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Speaker 2: There were two surviving roommates and like, look, the walls

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Speaker 2: were bleeding. We all saw those photographs where this was

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Speaker 2: a complete overkill. To quote Joseph Scott Morgan so, Joseph,

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Speaker 2: We're so glad you're with us.

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Speaker 3: I'm pleased to be here, so good to be with

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Speaker 3: you guys.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about the forensics because so much is

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Speaker 2: being made of it right now, you know.

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Speaker 6: And when we were.

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Speaker 2: Making the doc, we had to be a little careful,

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Speaker 2: right because the you know, we didn't want we don't

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Speaker 2: want to que anybody of murder. Ever, it's actually all

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Speaker 2: of our biggest fears, and we don't want to confuse anything.

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Speaker 2: And really we've tried to be as careful as we

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Speaker 2: could be to not share too much graphic information. But look,

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Speaker 2: we know it was awful beyond words, it's understatement of

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Speaker 2: the year. What's your takeaway, Joseph, what is something that

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Speaker 2: you're most interested to find out now that will likely

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Speaker 2: have more of this information once it's released to the public.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm chomping at the bit too. And look, I've

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Speaker 3: read thousands of autosic reports in my life, and I'm

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Speaker 3: going to be you know, when they were talking about

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Speaker 3: GAG where I'm hoping that the autos information will be released.

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Speaker 3: And there's another reason for that too, because I'm so

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Speaker 3: furious there were the fact that he's not being made

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Speaker 3: to allocute.

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Speaker 6: This is thank you, Joseph, thank you about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm furious over it, and it doesn't matter what

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Speaker 3: I think. However, what I would like to see happen

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Speaker 3: is that if the family does not have that information,

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Speaker 3: they need it prior to their impact statements. And if

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Speaker 3: you can't get your pound of flesh from him, they

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Speaker 3: should be able to hold forth, point by point with

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Speaker 3: him to say they can run down that list and

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Speaker 3: he has to sit there and listen to this, this

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Speaker 3: is what you did to my baby, and he would

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Speaker 3: have to hear it four times over and over and over.

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Speaker 3: It should ring in his ears. And the one thing

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Speaker 3: that is missing is the actual direct testimony of the

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Speaker 3: forensic pathologists to really frame this out. And there's certain

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Speaker 3: things that I'm very interested in. Many people are not

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Speaker 3: aware that when a body comes to the morgue, if

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Speaker 3: we have a stabbing or shooting, we do in many

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Speaker 3: cases do full body X rays and you pick up

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Speaker 3: on little items within autopsies with X rays that you

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Speaker 3: can't see when you do the actual dissection or pro

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Speaker 3: section with an autopsy. And one of the things I'd

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Speaker 3: be very curious about is this blade has allegedly been

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Speaker 3: used multiple times on this particular knife. I would be

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Speaker 3: fascinated to know and this happened sometimes if that knife

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Speaker 3: peeled off a little shard of the body of the

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Speaker 3: blade itself, like some of the metal, and if they

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Speaker 3: could identify that in an it would be radio opack.

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Speaker 3: Everybody's seen an X ray. You could see that before

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Speaker 3: you go in to do the autopsy. And if they

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Speaker 3: could collect that, I'm wondering if there would be a

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Speaker 3: metallurgical tie back to the knife. Why that's important is

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Speaker 3: that each one of these manufacturers of knives have a

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Speaker 3: very specific formula that they followed to create the knives. Yeah, yeah, precisely. Actually,

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Speaker 3: you're right on the money. Yeah, And so could they

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Speaker 3: take that and compare that with what the company produces.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not saying that that that that happened, but

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Speaker 3: that but we don't know what happened. We don't know

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Speaker 3: what the what the physician saw when they when they

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Speaker 3: started the autopsy. And you know, X rays are fantastic

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Speaker 3: for that purpose. You can see these little metal storms

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Speaker 3: in there, particularly with projectiles, but nice suit to a

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Speaker 3: certain degree, the blade will peel every now and then

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Speaker 3: and you'll see that, particularly when it comes in contact. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: it's gruesome, as this is with bone.

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Speaker 4: Joseph, I had just a couple. You're kind of blowing

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Speaker 4: my mind in this moment I had. I didn't even

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Speaker 4: know there was such a thing as post mortem full

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Speaker 4: body X rays. So we'll start there. Yeah, but my

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Speaker 4: other follow up questions to what you said, and also

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Speaker 4: if anyone else has questions, give us a call eighty

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Speaker 4: to eight three one crime and you can personally ask

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Speaker 4: Joseph Scott Morgan. So with those alloys, a is that

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Speaker 4: for all knives or only sort of the k bar?

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Speaker 4: What this is? So, for example, does my do my

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Speaker 4: kitchen knives have specific alloys that would react in the

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Speaker 4: same way?

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Speaker 2: What's an alloy? I don't even know what an alloy is?

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Speaker 2: Can we explain what an halloe?

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Speaker 3: It's a chemical combination of what's required to make the

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Speaker 3: body of the blade. And I can't sit here and

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Speaker 3: spouse about what the molecular composition is that this company uses.

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Speaker 3: And I don't know that it's going to be that specific,

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Speaker 3: but it would at least put you on the path

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Speaker 3: to this knowledge, I think, and it would be significant.

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Speaker 3: And again, painting a different picture or painting a more

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Speaker 3: focused picture. Certainly, you know right now we don't have anything.

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Speaker 3: We don't have anything at all, So something's better than nothing.

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Speaker 3: And then the descriptor of the injuries relative to here's

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Speaker 3: another thing that they would be looking at. Remember it

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Speaker 3: was put out that we did get this information that

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Speaker 3: the Knight that the injuries were consistent with a robust

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Speaker 3: hunting or military style style knife. Well, that's a very

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Speaker 3: specific descriptor. So what are you basing that upon? When

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Speaker 3: you and I'll give you an example. If you draw

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Speaker 3: a knie through like a rib cage, it hits like

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Speaker 3: the top of a rib. When you look at that microscopically,

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Speaker 3: the rib will actually wedge out in a V shape.

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Speaker 3: That's unique, okay, and it'll cut through that. Well, how

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Speaker 3: did you draw that conclusion that this is in fact

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Speaker 3: a military style knife? And does it fit within the

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Speaker 3: parameters of the cave are the one that the company manufactures.

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Speaker 3: And then you look at the external wounds as well.

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Speaker 3: That kN has the hilt on it or a hand

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Speaker 3: or handguard, and many times with handguards even if the

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Speaker 3: person is not quite dead. There and what's called a

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Speaker 3: Perry mortem state when you drive a knife into somebody's body,

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Speaker 3: it'll actually leave a verifiable contusion there as well, depended

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Speaker 3: upon like a bruise that surrounds the actual the actual

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Speaker 3: sharp force injury. You'll see it. I've seen it before.

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Speaker 3: And so does that Is there a handguard? Is there

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Speaker 3: an impression adjacent to these injuries that would fit the

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Speaker 3: same descriptor she would have with a k bar handguard?

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Speaker 3: I think that that would be an interesting question to

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Speaker 3: have answered as well.

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Speaker 5: Or did they come up with that because they had

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Speaker 5: a sheath that said k bar on it or U s.

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Speaker 3: Mc yeah, good, yeah, I mean is it a red herring?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, that's why.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I want to know, Oh, I don't follow

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Speaker 2: that train.

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Speaker 3: Are they just assuming that it was in fact k bar? Well,

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Speaker 3: I don't think that it's it's it's an assumption necessarily

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Speaker 3: because it's documented that he has purchased one. So I

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Speaker 3: think that you know that in forensics, that's what we

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Speaker 3: call a clue. So I think that that is actually

404
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Speaker 3: a clue there, that that's probably they're probably right on target.

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Speaker 3: But I want to know what other physical assessment that

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Speaker 3: they did at autopsy that they could.

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Speaker 4: Verify that Joseph, I had never thought. This is why

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Speaker 4: I don't play chess. I don't think ahead enough steps.

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Speaker 4: I never thought that someone who's a criminal would potentially

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Speaker 4: leave something like a knife, sheath or another gun at

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Speaker 4: a crime scene to try and throw detectives in the

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Speaker 4: wrong direction. Is that something you've I've never heard of.

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Speaker 3: That is something, well, I've got an interesting thought about that.

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Speaker 3: I may have talked to you guys about this before.

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Speaker 3: If we go with the idea that he's wearing and

416
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Speaker 3: this is what was that's what they were saying. He

417
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Speaker 3: was wearing this Dickie's outfit, right, you know this Dicky's coveralls.

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Speaker 3: The Dickies don't have belt loops on them. And that knife,

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00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 3: as I've mentioned previously, that sheath has a very robust

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Speaker 3: belt belt loop on it that you can loop your

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Speaker 3: belt through. Well, he's carrying the same freestyle in his

422
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Speaker 3: pocket or he's walking in with his hands and you

423
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Speaker 3: know this thing where he draws the blade out, it

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Speaker 3: had to be drawn at some point in time. I

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Speaker 3: can't imagine he's walking around with a sheath in one

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Speaker 3: hand a knife and the other I'm thinking when he

427
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Speaker 3: ascends that third story bedroom, he's in there and this

428
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Speaker 3: is like the big finishing moment. He's withdrawing this knife

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Speaker 3: out of the sheet. He's got these two precious angels

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Speaker 3: up there that are you know, literally facing Satan and

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Speaker 3: he's about to butcher them. And for him, not being

432
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 3: a profileer myself, but for him, I'm just thinking, you know,

433
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 3: this is all part of the game for him, right, Yeah,

434
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 3: of course it is. It's theatrical, it is for play.

435
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of there's a lot of

436
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 3: documentation about people that delve into people that use knives,

437
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 3: and without being too over the top here, you know,

438
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 3: they talk about stabbing. Is the knife is a phallus

439
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 3: pass that that repeated over and over and over again

440
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 3: like that, and it kind of it kind of marries

441
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 3: up with it. I got to tell you guys.

442
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 5: It does it, absolutely does it. It's penetration. It's such

443
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 5: an intimate murder. You're up close and personal looking at

444
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,719
Speaker 5: somebody in the eyes, so to speak.

445
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: It's I don't think this.

446
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 5: I don't think there was any sexual assault obviously, but

447
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 5: I do think it was sexually motivated.

448
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

449
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you don't have to have a physical assault

450
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,199
Speaker 3: for an to be sexualized right at all? Right, some

451
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,199
Speaker 3: of the cases I've worked over my career, I've had

452
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 3: people that have been completely brutalized, disfigured, and all of

453
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 3: it had a sexual connotation because it's like, if I

454
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: can't have you, no one else will. That's just one

455
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 3: of the little threads that run through these types of cases.

456
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 5: Right, Oh, Joseph's a lot about with that.

457
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's so intense.

458
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 2: Do you think had he not been caught, meaning Brian

459
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 2: Coberger had not been caught, that he perhaps would have

460
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 2: continued to kill? You know? Was he a serial killer

461
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 2: in the making? That, thankfully was. His efforts were thwarted

462
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 2: frankly in a way that was far too late.

463
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 6: In so many ways. But do you think he would

464
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 6: have kept going?

465
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 3: I don't know. That's an excellent question of going back

466
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 3: to my granny. My granny used to say, boy, if

467
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 3: you if you rub up against evil long enough, it'll

468
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 3: some of it will rub off on you. And I

469
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 3: think that perhaps if he has some kind of predisposition

470
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 3: cycle logically where he's engaged from studying all the thing,

471
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 3: he wanted to walk down this road, this twisted path,

472
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 3: maybe so, and it planted the scene in his mind

473
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 3: and it took root. I don't know, but it seems

474
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 3: again it's one of those things you kind of follow

475
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 3: the breadcrumbs with it. It seems plausible to me that

476
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 3: that would look. I mean, this is a huge shock.

477
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 3: I've never heard of someone starting off because this is

478
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 3: not a serial killing. This is a mass murder.

479
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 4: Everybody, hang with us. We will have more with the

480
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 4: great forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan after the break, give

481
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 4: us a call, join the conversation eight eight eight three

482
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 4: to one crime and keep it here at True Crime Tonight.

483
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

484
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It's Thursday, July tenth, and

485
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: we have stack meta headlines, so listen to this. We

486
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: have forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, host of Body Bags

487
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 2: and also he appears in our documentary The Idaho Student Murders,

488
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 2: streaming now on Peacock. He's actually been on all of

489
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 2: our podcasts, The Piked and massacret The Idaho Massacre. He

490
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: really appears in essentially everything we may here at KT

491
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 2: and he's going to really do a deep dive for

492
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: us given the new developments in the case and the

493
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 2: forensics in this particular case. Obviously, given the new developments

494
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 2: with Brian Coberger saying that he did it, now we

495
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 2: can really pull the gloves off and talk about some

496
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 2: of the stuff that we were maybe a little too

497
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 2: afraid to prior to there being an actual sentence or

498
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 2: an actual verdict.

499
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 6: And we also have some headlines. Body, what are you

500
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 6: following today?

501
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 5: Well, I've got two out of Idaho. I have Travis Decker.

502
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 5: You know, earlier this week we reported that there was

503
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 5: a man scene in Idaho that a family recognized as

504
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 5: being Travis Decker. I mean, even down to the tattoos

505
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 5: and earrings. Well, turns out the law enforcement truck down

506
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 5: this person or they came forward. I'm not quite sure

507
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 5: just yet, but it's it wasn't him, unfortunately, so we

508
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 5: start back with maybe the cadaver dogs maybe starting to

509
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 5: look for him again in Washington. So unfortunately that was

510
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 5: not Travis Decker, and we are starting back over. The

511
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 5: second headline I have is due to the gag order

512
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 5: in Idaho for Brian Coberger. There is a hearing Thursday

513
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 5: the seventeenth, and it will be it's the emotion was

514
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 5: filed by the media to lift the gag order. So

515
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 5: this hearing will be held on Thursday the seventeenth.

516
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, the gag order seems ridiculous, quite frankly to do

517
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: that in place, But.

518
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 5: I mean, listen, prior to sentencing, I get why the

519
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 5: judge hasn't lifted it, but he seemed kind of okay

520
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 5: with maybe lifting it now because you know, if details

521
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 5: come out from the gag order being lifted that the

522
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 5: family finds, you know, repugnant, which I imagine they will,

523
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 5: it could impact their victim impact statement, which will affect

524
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 5: sentencing for Brian Koberger.

525
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 2: So that's usually why it won't be lifted. But I

526
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 2: have a feeling he's going to lift it. Can I

527
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: ask a quick question on that front? So if if

528
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 2: the gag order stays in place, for what purpose? Like

529
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: at this point, he's confessed, he has confessed to murdering

530
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: for Idaho students, and.

531
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 6: So what let the let the gag orders be lifted?

532
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 4: Why so?

533
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 2: I can't the families of all sides be able to

534
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 2: talk freely and openly in the eleventh hour here he's

535
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: not calling the shots on everything. I just I don't

536
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: even understand what the downside would be, and I just

537
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 2: don't get it, Like, what is that?

538
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 6: What is the downside too?

539
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 5: I don't think there would be a downside necessarily because

540
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 5: the victim impact statements would be read after the trial

541
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 5: at sentencing anyway, and the art the family would be

542
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 5: armed with all this information. So I don't really know

543
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 5: what the downside would be. But the only thing I

544
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 5: can come up with is it could impact sentencing.

545
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: That's it.

546
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 5: But it's not going to I don't think I think

547
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 5: the judge might might lift it. It's only a few days.

548
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 4: Can I ask what your indication when you said that

549
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 4: you you feel like the judge will Is that just

550
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 4: a gut or did you no?

551
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 5: Because during the during the hearing where he pled guilty,

552
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 5: the judge seemed like he was willing to lift it,

553
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 5: but the prosecution and defense and no, go ahead and

554
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 5: keep it. But he seemed like he was like, okay

555
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 5: with lifting it.

556
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: Why does the defense get a vote right now? He

557
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: this guy just literally admitted guilt to murdering four people,

558
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 2: slaughtering them in the middle of the night senselessly. Not

559
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 2: that there's any sense in slaughtering anyone, but so what

560
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 2: would he has to say he just got himself, you know,

561
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: his life saved. He's not getting a death sentence trial.

562
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: He's dragged everybody around for two and a half years. Liar, liar, liar,

563
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 2: and now he decides, you know, it's insane.

564
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 6: I don't get it.

565
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: I'm sure somebody out there does, though. Call us eight

566
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 2: eight eight three one crime. Please jump in, join the

567
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 2: conversation or just leave us a talkback.

568
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 4: What do you think that's right? So in other news,

569
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 4: and excuse me, I think I'm going to say this

570
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 4: name incorrectly. K popstar Tyel he was sentenced to more

571
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 4: than three years in prison after pleading guilty to rape.

572
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 4: And the thirty one year old was sentenced to three

573
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 4: and a half years specifically alongside to others. And this

574
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 4: happened in Soeul Central District Court just today. And he

575
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 4: was a member of the K pop band NCT Neo

576
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 4: Culture Technology. So, boy, there's there's a lot of assaults

577
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 4: happening with biggs.

578
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 2: In the music industry, right or has that always been

579
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: there and we're finally talking about it and exposing it.

580
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 2: I think probably it's been there this since the beginning

581
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: of time. But you know, we didn't have social media.

582
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: People were too afraid to raise their hands. And I

583
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: think we're just hearing more and more about it because

584
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: people feel safer maybe to share.

585
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 6: I don't know.

586
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,959
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think you're spot on.

587
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 5: There's really nothing for me to add. I think one

588
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 5: hundred percent agree with you on that. You know, we

589
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 5: used to there used to be back in the day,

590
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 5: what was groupies?

591
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: Right? Oh yeah, right?

592
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 5: And now you know, I think that's kind of evolved

593
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 5: with you know, back then it was like you know,

594
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 5: but now it's like, well, wait a minute, I was assaulted,

595
00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 5: you know, Like I think that's kind of like the

596
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 5: awakening here.

597
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 4: It's so true, right, And in this case, the poor

598
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 4: the victim. She was a tourist, she was grossly intoxicated,

599
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 4: totally unable to give any consent, and the three defendants

600
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 4: committed these hainous acts against her.

601
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 5: So strength to prison, strength to her. And then we

602
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 5: have Diddy, timphany, we have Diddy, right.

603
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 6: Let's hear all about it. Don't get me started.

604
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 5: So Diddy sentencing info. When will sentencing be?

605
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 2: Can you guess?

606
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 5: October third, twenty twenty five, So that is fast approaching,

607
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 5: it seems so far off in the distance.

608
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: But if you think about it, we're in July already.

609
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 5: Then we have August, October, November, let's it, or September, September.

610
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 6: I still forgot.

611
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: About September because I again, that's funny, I had the

612
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: opposite thought.

613
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 6: It seemed far away in my now.

614
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: That I I mean again, who I don't get me started.

615
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: You know, that might be too soon, if you ask me.

616
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 2: But it seemed as though when the sentencing was announced

617
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 2: initially that Ditty's defense team really wanted it to be

618
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 2: moved up very quickly, wanted him out, and then they

619
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: wanted him to leave that night exactly, and it seems

620
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: like they kind of shut that down a little bit.

621
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 6: So even the defense is on board with this.

622
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 2: October date because actually it was going to be in September, right,

623
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 2: And I think it's to.

624
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 5: Get this pre sentencing investigation report done. I think the

625
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 5: defense wants some time to get that done because it

626
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 5: can impact sentencing, and if it does impact sentencing in

627
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 5: a positive way for Diddy, that's good for the defense.

628
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 2: So I think that's probably why.

629
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 4: Well, we'll be keeping on that. You are listening to

630
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 4: True Crime tonight, We're talking true crime all the time,

631
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 4: and we are thrillingly about to be joined by forensic

632
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 4: expert Joseph Scott Morgan. We want to hear your thoughts.

633
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 4: Give us a call. We're at eighty eight three to

634
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 4: one crime or send us a talk back and you'll

635
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 4: be on the show.

636
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 2: Can we bring Joseph on? Joseph, I'm here.

637
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 5: We thought we would kind of break down the evidence

638
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 5: against Brian Cooberger, of course of what we know, and

639
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 5: since you're you know, all things forensics, we're just so

640
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 5: lucky that you heard to join us. So the first

641
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 5: piece of evidence against Brian Koberger is the knife sheath DNA, Right,

642
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 5: that's the lynch pin.

643
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, what can you tell us about that?

644
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it is the lynchpin from a you know,

645
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 3: just from a biological standpoint. You know, we hear a lot.

646
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 3: We grow up, right learning about crime. And the classic

647
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 3: symbol that you think about when you think about crime

648
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 3: is a fingerprint, right, I mean people us in their

649
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 3: logos for years and years. Well, this is a this

650
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 3: is a biological fingerprint that is left behind and as

651
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 3: distinctive as actual fingerprints are, that biological fingerprint is so

652
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 3: much more accurate and so much more spot on. And

653
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 3: I think that looking at this, looking at this is

654
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 3: probably that was for verbial nail in his coffin, you know,

655
00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: because the numbers don't lie. They're so overwhelming, and you know,

656
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: and that's the big piece to this, the one thing

657
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 3: that we're asked and of course, and everybody has just wondered,

658
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 3: and they will continue to wonder unless something is overturned

659
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 3: and not overturned in a legal sense, but some rock

660
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 3: is overturned and they found that knife. You know that,

661
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 3: you know that sheets was the conveyance for the knife.

662
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 3: And to this point, we don't We don't know a

663
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 3: lot about injuries, for instance, on we hear this term

664
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 3: sharp force injuries and stabbing and cutting and all this

665
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 3: sort of thing, but when it gets down to the

666
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 3: nitty gritty, we still don't have that data in front

667
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 3: of us. And trust me, if that ever drops, a

668
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 3: whole new world is going to open up to everybody

669
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 3: who's been follow in this case for all these years.

670
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 3: It's gonna open up for me. I have my suspicions,

671
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 3: but when we see the depth and the breadth of this,

672
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: it's gonna it will knock everybody back on their heels.

673
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 2: Are you expecting to read from it?

674
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 3: What do you expect? Well, well, okay, this is this

675
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 3: is my big thing and one of the things that

676
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 3: I've kind of held out for. And I've mentioned this

677
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 3: several times of Steph and I've had conversations about this

678
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 3: a couple of years back. But one of the things

679
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 3: I was really curious about if this is this blade

680
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 3: which comes from this cave bar is used to repeat

681
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 3: to Tom's Okay, by his own admission, this is.

682
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 5: More with Joseph Scott Morgan on the Idaho student murders

683
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 5: and don't forget to give us a call at eighty

684
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 5: eight thirty one crime or send us a talkback on

685
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 5: the iHeartRadio app.

686
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 2: We're so happy you're here. We also have a talkback

687
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 2: right now. So let's go to that first.

688
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 3: Hid you kid tonight. I need to know what you

689
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 3: guys think hop into the knife and the coburger case

690
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 3: and what your guys theories are.

691
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 5: I could talk that this six hours, so we have

692
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 5: another talk about Oka.

693
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:52,720
Speaker 7: Hi gang.

694
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 4: This is Jody from Vegas.

695
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 3: Again.

696
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 4: I have a question about the coburger case. I understand

697
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 4: authorities don't have the weapon, the knife.

698
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 3: That he used.

699
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 4: If that's true, do you think they'll ever find it?

700
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 4: Where is it? What would he have done with it?

701
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: Great job, I'm enjoying the podcast a ton.

702
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 2: Oh that's that same question. Yeah, funny, Okay, Joseph, you guys,

703
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: you know, I'll let you guys dig in.

704
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 6: You all know what my answer is.

705
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: Listen.

706
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 5: I think you know there's there's a lot of there's

707
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 5: a lot of things that we just don't know yet

708
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 5: that have been happening that were leaked via the Dateline

709
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 5: episode that we've talked about a lot actually, and it's

710
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 5: pretty recent. And one of the things that was leaked

711
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 5: was that Brian Coberger searched for a knife sheath, specifically

712
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 5: a sheath on November fifteenth. And if that's true, and

713
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 5: we don't know what if it is, but you know

714
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 5: it is a trusted source. Dateline is pretty respected. If

715
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 5: it is true that he searched for a just a sheath,

716
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 5: I think he kept the knife and I think he

717
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 5: had it two days after the murder. Do I think

718
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 5: he might have taken it with him home but dumped

719
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 5: it after he got pulled over in Indiana?

720
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 2: Hm, I think it dumped it in like the woods

721
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: dumped it in the garage, like maybe he went out

722
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 2: the side of the door.

723
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know. I don't know if they

724
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 5: drove straight from Indiana to Pennsylvania, like in you know, six.

725
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: Hours or however long it takes.

726
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 5: But it's possible that he even took it back home

727
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 5: to Pennsylvania.

728
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: I don't know.

729
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 3: It's just a it's just you know, yeah, I don't

730
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 3: know for me, if you if you follow this kind

731
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 3: of line of logic or as logical as it can be,

732
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: that he is this, you know. And this is not

733
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 3: just me saying this. This is a lot of pundits

734
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 3: that are out there saying things like he was a

735
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 3: burgeoning serial killer and there's no indication that there are

736
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 3: other deaths. However, he's been studying these people, and I

737
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 3: want everybody to really think about if you've ever known

738
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 3: a carpenter. Carpenters use tools. He knows this. If he

739
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 3: studied serial killers like this and they prefer a specific

740
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 3: kind of tool, could he have sequestered it somewhere? Could

741
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 3: he literally hit it beneath a rock. There are a

742
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 3: lot of beautiful rivers up there in streams. Maybe he

743
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 3: would take it into a flowing body of water and

744
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 3: take one of those big ancient rocks, lift the rock

745
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 3: in the water, put the put the knife beneath it.

746
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 3: And that accomplishes two things. It's sequestered and plus in

747
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 3: his mind, it's cleaning off any kind of physical evidence

748
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 3: it might be there because it's in this you know,

749
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 3: in this aquatic environment. I don't know, but that's that

750
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 3: would be my suspicion. I you know, he was, you know,

751
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 3: to put it in I guess vernacular, he's kind of

752
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 3: rolling dirty with this knife. I think, what are you

753
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 3: going to do with it? And once you get the

754
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 3: sense and he's he's coming off with this thrill, I'm thinking,

755
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 3: you know, what are you gonna do with it? You know,

756
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 3: where are you going to put it? If you want

757
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 3: to go back and relive this, which he very well

758
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:56,439
Speaker 3: might have wanted to do.

759
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 5: Well to your point, I think Bill Thompson, the prosecutor

760
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 5: in this case from the state of Idaho, agrees with you.

761
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 5: Joseph's he you know, during the plea agreement, he kind

762
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 5: of ran through what he thought transpired and he says

763
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 5: it's probably down south near the river.

764
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 2: So you might be right about that.

765
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,720
Speaker 5: Stick around true Crime Tonight, we're going to be talking

766
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 5: with Joseph Scott Morgan. We're going to continue this conversation.

767
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 5: Don't go anywhere, give us a call at eight eight

768
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 5: eight three one crime, or use the.

769
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: Talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app.

770
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 5: Keep it right here on True Crime Tonight, where we're

771
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 5: talking true crime all the time.

772
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

773
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

774
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong, Body Moven, and we're joined by our favorite

775
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert and host of Body Bags

776
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 2: the podcast. If you haven't heard it, please check it out.

777
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 2: It's excellent. And he also appears in all of our stuff,

778
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: our documentaries and podcasts, including current currently airing and streaming

779
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 2: the Idaho Student Murders and again, Joseph, you're really you're

780
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 2: astounding in it, as you are in all of our

781
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 2: docs and our podcast for that matter, also the Idaho

782
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 2: Massacre podcast.

783
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 6: Check that out too.

784
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 2: We were saying earlier, I think that's just an indication

785
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 2: that people really care so much about the victims here,

786
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 2: and you know, Kaylee and Maddie and Zana and Ethan

787
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 2: are in our hearts triggering content. Obviously, we're talking about

788
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 2: forensics in this massive overkill. If you guys haven't been

789
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: following the case too closely, we're talking about the four

790
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 2: students that were murdered tragically two and a half years ago,

791
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 2: and the accused who was looking at the looking at

792
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: a death sentence trial in August, just decided to change

793
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 2: his plea. And yeah, he's guilty in all four charges

794
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,959
Speaker 2: and has just been lying to everybody this entire time,

795
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: costing the state in families exhaustive amounts of both money

796
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 2: and ache. And now we should be getting some new

797
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 2: information once and for all. And we're all obviously standing

798
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 2: by very closely. So Joseph backed up to it again,

799
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: the knife. I know we had several questions this evening.

800
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: Thank you for calling in about where the knife is, Like,

801
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 2: where is this infamous murder knife? We all will they

802
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: ever find it? Does he still? Did he hide it somewhere?

803
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 2: So you guys all think his intention was to keep

804
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 2: it like a keepsake, because many killers who were in

805
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: it for the fame, the vanity, et cetera, seemed to

806
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 2: keep tokens.

807
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 4: And yeah, I think that makes sense. It makes totally.

808
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 4: It seems to make sense, and so the sharpener and

809
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 4: also you know with the buying of the sheath, as

810
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 4: you points out earlier body but looking for.

811
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: If it's true, if.

812
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 4: It's true, correct, excuse me, if it's true, why do

813
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 4: you need a sheath if you don't have a knife.

814
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 4: So I I do have to say, Joseph in the documentary,

815
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 4: you really did such You brought just such expertise and

816
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,879
Speaker 4: clarity two things. So I just wanted to shout out for.

817
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, well we had a great I gotta get

818
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 3: a shout out to Catherine park Man.

819
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, we had it on the show.

820
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 3: She's a genius documentary directors in the world. What a

821
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 3: beautiful eye she has for things, and she is such

822
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 3: a joy to work with, absolute joy.

823
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree with you, Mike.

824
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 5: I thought that the way that they did the house

825
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 5: in the documentary, that was my honestly. I had a

826
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 5: gasping moment. And it's when Steve Golensalvas Junior was talking

827
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 5: about you know, what's the what what are you afraid of?

828
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 5: You know, Olivia was asking him what do you what

829
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 5: are you afraid of? And he said a plea and

830
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 5: my heart sunk. But the other takeaway I had from

831
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 5: the documentary was the house and how well it came

832
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 5: across in the documentary.

833
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 2: It was so so so good.

834
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 5: You know, you really felt like you were inside the

835
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 5: house that night and it was a complete replica.

836
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 2: It was so good. It was just it was just

837
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 2: really well done. I was very, very impressed. That's Lisa Bollen,

838
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:02,280
Speaker 2: She's so beautiful and it was really like painstaking and

839
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 2: you know, you did a great job, very fabulous, fabulous.

840
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 3: In the kind of amazing. How a structure and a

841
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 3: place Actually, if you're talking if you were talking about

842
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 3: this from a narrative standpoint, those those places become characters, right,

843
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 3: They don't really do in the house, I think, you know,

844
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 3: we've seen those images for so long. They're emblazed just

845
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 3: as much as those precious faces are, right, those kids

846
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 3: that the house will always be emblazoned in our brain.

847
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 5: And you know, I've I've often been the one person

848
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 5: on the opposite side of the house, you know, like

849
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 5: being torn down. But in retrospect, seeing the documentary and

850
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 5: how the house, you know, recreation, kind of took my

851
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 5: breath away, and you know, it made me reflect on gosh,

852
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 5: you know, maybe I was wrong. Maybe you know, the

853
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 5: house shouldn't have been torn down, so it did. It

854
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 5: when you watch a documentary and it makes you change

855
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 5: a position or rethink a position. I think that's important,

856
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 5: especially to somebody like me. I don't I often dig

857
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 5: my heills in, Well, it was.

858
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 4: Interesting the house. Yeah, sorry, go ahead, Joseph, No, I.

859
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 3: Was just saying the house. You know, I don't want

860
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 3: to sound too you know, like some kind of weirdo,

861
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 3: but the house itself kind of speaks, kind of speaks

862
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 3: to you in the sense that it's so unique. It's

863
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 3: so very unique. If you and if they were to

864
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 3: take the four of us and plant us in a

865
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 3: house similar to that, with that layout, and they turned

866
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 3: all the lights off, keep that in mind, this was

867
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 3: done in the dark. Perhaps could could the four of

868
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 3: us make our way through a structure like this? You

869
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 3: know it's a switch back, you know, landings and all

870
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,479
Speaker 3: of that's how are you going to make your way

871
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 3: through this maze? And that's one of the big questions,

872
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 3: you know that I've always had. Did he did he

873
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 3: go out? Had he ever been in there before? I

874
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 3: think that that's one of the big questions For me,

875
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 3: it always has been and his observations of the place

876
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 3: from a distance, he didn't He did a very poor

877
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 3: job of observing that night, because if those were his

878
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 3: targets on the third floor, then how how did he

879
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 3: not account for the other people in the house. Do

880
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 3: you think he was going to be that stealthy to

881
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 3: get away with it?

882
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 5: Well, and you know, you have a good point about

883
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 5: the you know, kind of navigating that house, and that

884
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 5: was a kind of a big deal in John Beney.

885
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 5: With John Beney, you know, they had all these additions

886
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 5: to the house, and how did the killer of John

887
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 5: Beney know to get to that sellar? How did they

888
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 5: know to get through the kitchen down the stay air,

889
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 5: you know what I mean? Like it was a big

890
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 5: point of contention with the Jean Beney case. So to

891
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 5: your point, Joseph, the house is incredibly important and knowing

892
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 5: if he had been there prior, I hope we're going

893
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 5: to learn. I hope we're going to learn they found

894
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 5: something in the house in his apartment. I don't know,

895
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 5: something that leads us to believe he was their prior.

896
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 2: I don't know. Well, by the way, Bolan the same

897
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 2: person who made the graphic visual design, and I should

898
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 2: say they're not really graphics. The visual designer in the

899
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 2: documentary in Idaho also did the Jean Vonet one. So

900
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 2: that model that you're referring to the same talented team

901
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 2: and brain.

902
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 5: Wow.

903
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 6: Okay, a good eye on.

904
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 3: Your part is very talented.

905
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 4: Yore is you're listening to crimpsonight, I'm Courtney Armstrong. I'm

906
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 4: here with Body Moven, Stephanie Leidecker, and everyone's favorite forensic

907
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 4: expert Joseph Scott Morgan. We're going through the details, the

908
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 4: forensic details of the Idaho college murder. And if you

909
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 4: want to ask Joseph a question, give us a call.

910
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 4: We're at eighty eight three to one crime where you

911
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 4: can always join the conversation by leaving a talkback on

912
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio app. So, one thing I wanted to say

913
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 4: was in the Idaho Massacre podcast, we spoke extensively about

914
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 4: the house and actually we spoke both with you Body

915
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 4: and with Joseph about this was hotly contested whether or

916
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 4: not it was going to be demolished. Additionally, we spoke

917
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 4: with an expert whose name escapes me, and she talked

918
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 4: she was very knowledgeable about why people are attracted is

919
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 4: the wrong word, but attracted to homes where things happen,

920
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 4: where murders or gruesome things happen. And then also what

921
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 4: you can take from being in the actual walls. But

922
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 4: regarding this, she said, sometimes your imagination, like what you

923
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 4: were describing, body of gasping at the documentary, what she

924
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 4: was saying was with all of the crazy extensive recreation

925
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 4: and pharaoh photography, which we should clarify what that is,

926
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 4: that you could actually really feel like you were almost

927
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 4: more there. Just remembered it was doctor Gail Saltz and

928
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 4: it was on voyeurism. Oh okay, but there was an argument,

929
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 4: but yeah, can one of you take the pharaoh technolog.

930
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I'm an idiot, but it's not.

931
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 6: I don't like it when you say that, even if

932
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 6: you're humble.

933
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying I'm not an artist. You're literally

934
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 2: one of the smartest humans I know.

935
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 5: I'm just saying I'm not I'm not in that field,

936
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 5: you know what I mean? Like I'm a layman is.

937
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 2: What I mess.

938
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 5: It's basically, it basically is a scanner for all intents

939
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 5: and purposes. It's a scanner and it scans every nook

940
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 5: and cranny of a target and recreates a room or

941
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 5: whatever the target is digitally, and I think they did

942
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 5: that to create the dollhouse. So they tore this house

943
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 5: down before prior that day, they the FBI did the

944
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 5: Farro target scan of the house and then they created

945
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 5: like a dollhouse. It's infamously referred to as the Dollhouse,

946
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 5: and it's a replica of the house. And the reason

947
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 5: they had to do that was because they were going

948
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 5: to tear the house down. And when we say this

949
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 5: was a unique house, we're not exaggerating. This was a

950
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 5: house that had add on after add on onto it.

951
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 5: So it was very weirdly shaped and it was kind

952
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 5: of built into kind of like a hill, right Like,

953
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 5: So the first floor was on the first floor, and

954
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 5: that's fine, but the second floor had a slider that

955
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 5: went also.

956
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 2: To the ground.

957
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 5: So because it was built into an incline, and so

958
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 5: the house kind of like twist and turned a little bit, right, Would.

959
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 2: That be a good way to describe it.

960
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 5: So this doll hot.

961
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, the doll house was supposed to give us.

962
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 3: An idea of what was right, and so it's built

963
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 3: into a bank, if you will.

964
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there you go.

965
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 3: Where maybe it's been trimmed out. And you know, we

966
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 3: see houses like this all the time, and that bottom

967
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 3: floor would be kind of the basement, but not really

968
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 3: because it actually opens out onto the ground as well,

969
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 3: which makes it kind of unique.

970
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 2: But there's like two ground level.

971
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are two ground levels, and that's one of

972
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 3: the things that makes it interesting to try to navigate.

973
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,919
Speaker 3: The Pharaoh's system, though, is fascinating in the sense that

974
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 3: it takes thousands and thousands The scene is like a gyroscope,

975
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 3: and so it's spinning around, it's taking thousands and thousands

976
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 3: of photographs in a millisecond, and so you take all

977
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 3: of this and you throw it together digitally and it

978
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 3: gives you this really intense recreation where you feel like

979
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 3: that you can appreciate depth and heights and all those

980
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 3: sorts of things. But with the reason they're using the

981
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 3: term dollhouse, I think it goes back to I think

982
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 3: their names Francis Glacier, who did the dollhouse studies back

983
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 3: in the twenties. She was one of the first well

984
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 3: she was the first woman that was ever consulted about

985
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 3: crime scene and you can do an entire show in

986
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 3: her life. She's fascinating and she created these dollhouses in

987
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 3: miniature based on real cases that police have used over

988
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 3: the years. This is nothing new under the sun. This

989
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 3: has happened. But the problem is is that you take

990
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,280
Speaker 3: this visual recreation and it's not like if you guys

991
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 3: remember Star Trek the now generation with a Holida deck.

992
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 3: You don't have that ability.

993
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 4: We will be speaking more with Joseph Scott Morgan and

994
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 4: about Jerry specifically.

995
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 2: It's always such a joy to have you. Also, we

996
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 2: have a talk back. Let's go to that real quick.

997
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 7: I'm great to know your take on the Christian Andriachio

998
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 7: case out of Maritia, Mississippi.

999
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts?

1000
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know that case, but I love

1001
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 2: that our listeners are calling with cases, So first off,

1002
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 2: thank you. Do you guys know what we should do?

1003
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 2: I only know it a little bit.

1004
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 5: I know that it was ruled of suicide in that

1005
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 5: it's being maybe reinvestigated, and it was like eleven ten

1006
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 5: some years ago. I don't know a lot about it

1007
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 5: at all.

1008
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 6: Let's talk into it.

1009
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 4: Absolutely. I know nothing as well. So now now we

1010
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 4: do and we'll do our homework and report back. Thank

1011
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 4: you so much.

1012
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, I just know if you

1013
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 2: keep on coming, he says. Yeah, Like, we've been getting

1014
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 2: quite a bit of them. So if you have any cases,

1015
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: you could always just call us or leave a talk

1016
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 2: back or hit us up in our socials at True

1017
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 2: Crime Tonight's show on Instagram and TikTok or at True

1018
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 2: Crime Tonight on Facebook. Would be so much easier if

1019
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 2: those were the same. But you know, here we are

1020
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 2: bear with me. But yeah, like the cases that you

1021
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 2: are curious about or want to know more about, or

1022
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 2: have some juicy details about, please just hit us up.

1023
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 2: We really were trying to kind of create a little,

1024
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:28,439
Speaker 2: you know, crime club here.

1025
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you can help us shape the show. So

1026
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 4: that's that's the fun part of it all. And speaking

1027
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 4: of shaping the show, which we like to do with

1028
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 4: experts like Joseph Scott Morgan. So, Scott, before the before

1029
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 4: the break, you were you were starting to talk about

1030
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 4: jury's what was your thought on that.

1031
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that one of the big roadblocks for

1032
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 3: lawyers warning our even toy with the idea of bringing

1033
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 3: a jury out to house a structure is like a

1034
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 3: silent witness, okay, And you know, if you're inside the

1035
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 3: court and you've got it could be the prosecution or

1036
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 3: the sense they can redirect a witness, you know, if

1037
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 3: the witness is not answering the way they want them to,

1038
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 3: and the witness is going off and let's face it,

1039
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 3: off script, they never ask questions. They don't know they

1040
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 3: answer to you. For that old adage, when you take

1041
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 3: a juror a jury out to a structure like this,

1042
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 3: they can draw their own conclusions out there. And they're

1043
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 3: walking around this place and they're looking at say, blood

1044
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:32,240
Speaker 3: deposition on the wall, on the floor, and they're drawing

1045
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 3: their own conclusions. And the attorneys really can't crack that

1046
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 3: in any way, and they could say, well, you have

1047
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 3: to disregard this or what come on. They're not going

1048
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 3: to do that in that environment. And so you know,

1049
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 3: when you get a jury out there, it's outside the

1050
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 3: norms for attorneys. They don't like that they're out of control.

1051
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 3: So that's one of the big problems with taking a

1052
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 3: jury out to a scene. I think, at least in

1053
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 3: my experience, that's the reason it doesn't happen with great frequency.

1054
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 4: Interesting not something I never thought of I never did either,

1055
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 4: but what a great point, and yeah you do. It

1056
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 4: can hit different people different ways. Whatever home it.

1057
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 5: Could be interpreted one way by this juror and then

1058
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 5: another way by this jur because like, as you said,

1059
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 5: the house isn't really speaking, but in a way it

1060
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 5: is because you kind of can feel it, right, you

1061
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 5: get the feelings to your point stuff right like you can.

1062
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 5: It's it's a deeply felt feeling of being in a

1063
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 5: house like that or.

1064
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 2: In some cases right like I'm thinking of like Oscar

1065
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 2: Pretorious that case of the you remember the Blade Runner

1066
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 2: the man, you know, like there were some digital recreations

1067
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 2: that were so meaningful.

1068
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 6: Of that, you know.

1069
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 2: So I don't think in all cases it needs to

1070
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 2: I don't think we need to schlep every jury to

1071
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,800
Speaker 2: every crime scene obviously, just in like this one was

1072
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 2: a real piece of the puzzle. Hmm.

1073
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 4: That's right. Well it's in Joseph, thank you so much.

1074
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 3: Pleasure any time.

1075
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 4: Is always a It's my favorite night. Yeah, always really is.

1076
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 4: And listen if you want more of Joseph and who

1077
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 4: doesn't listen to his hip podcast Body Bags or catch

1078
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 4: him in Katie's Studio's documentary airing on Peacock, The Idaho

1079
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 4: Student Murders. Yes, True Crime Tonight. We are talking true

1080
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:21,439
Speaker 4: crime all the time.

1081
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:38,399
Speaker 2: Sheina Scarborough, whose lovely daughter was murdered last year. She's

1082
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,720
Speaker 2: going to join us to really share how she's turning

1083
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 2: her grief into incredible purpose. And look, before we go

1084
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 2: any further, we want to make sure we hear from you.

1085
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 2: So join us eight eight eight three to one Crime.

1086
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 2: You could either call us, You could leave us a talkback,

1087
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 2: which is just download the app and the top right

1088
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,399
Speaker 2: hand corner you push a button and just leave your

1089
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 2: opinion and boom, it'll be added to the show. Or

1090
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 2: you could always hit us up on our socials at

1091
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight Show on Instagram and TikTok or at

1092
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight on Facebook. And also we have a

1093
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 2: talkback right now. So let's go to that first.

1094
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 8: Hi, y'all, you had recently talked about the Titan submersible

1095
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 8: and why it wasn't more regulated for tourism, and I

1096
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 8: think it's interesting to note that they actually had a

1097
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 8: work around for this by labeling each of those tourists

1098
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 8: quote unquote that went on these trips as employees. They

1099
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 8: called them mission specialists and gave them other job titles

1100
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 8: specifically to work around any kind of tourism regulation, which

1101
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 8: I think is super shady.

1102
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 2: Super shady is an understatement.

1103
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 6: I did not know that.

1104
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 2: That's an incredible First of all, thank you for that talkback.

1105
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 2: I wasn't aware of that.

1106
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:47,280
Speaker 4: I didn't know that either.

1107
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 6: That's like downright illegal in some way.

1108
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 2: It seems like it should be. I mean, yes, I

1109
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 2: have not heard that. And by the way, that is

1110
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 2: in a very interesting ad. We're going to kind of

1111
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 2: look into this a little bit further too, because again

1112
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 2: these submarines, that's not the only example of this, and

1113
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 2: we want to make sure that we're really unpacking it

1114
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 2: carefully so that we know ultimately how to look for

1115
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 2: this when we're out you know, doing I guess adventurous things. Yeah,

1116
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 2: that I personally don't have to worry about, since they

1117
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 2: were like they were.

1118
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 5: Doing things like important things like this. This was in

1119
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 5: the documentary on the HBO documentary, And they were doing

1120
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:25,959
Speaker 5: important things like inspecting the whole and like swabbing the deck.

1121
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 5: They were like deckhands. Wow, And like yeah, they were

1122
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 5: like employees basically or contracted employees of Ocean Gate.

1123
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 2: It was in the documentary. It is very interesting.

1124
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 6: Wow.

1125
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 2: And they were aware of that, right, So yeah, they

1126
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: were one hundred percent.

1127
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 5: One of the gentlemen who actually made the first successful

1128
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 5: trip down to the Sitanic.

1129
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 2: He's of course a billionaire. He's on the show and

1130
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 2: he talks.

1131
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 5: About and he has footage from his cell phone because

1132
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 5: he he was, you know, making videos while he was

1133
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 5: on the boat that was housing the titan sub thing

1134
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 5: whatever it's called the submersible, sorry, and he was making

1135
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 5: videos and they play some of these videos on this documentary.

1136
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: Wow, and he's like, Wow, I'm.

1137
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 5: A deckhand and I'm inspecting the whole and now I'm

1138
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 5: down at the Titanic.

1139
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 2: It's very it's very weird. So all of the passengers

1140
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 2: that ultimately lost their lives. If you're not aware of

1141
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: this story, we covered it the other night where basically

1142
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 2: adventurists who really were so curious about the Titanic went

1143
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 2: in this submerged you know, submergible submarine or submergible I

1144
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 2: guess is what.

1145
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 6: They call it, and lost their lives.

1146
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 2: And it's been very, really difficult for everybody because it

1147
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 2: seems like they were so out to lunch in terms

1148
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 2: of their guidelines in workarounds.

1149
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 6: This sounds like unbelievable.

1150
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really is. Thank you for that tip. And

1151
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 4: now I want to go watch that documentary said that's good,

1152
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 4: But what I want to do most is now speak

1153
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 4: to the guest that Stephanie had referenced earlier, Sheena. So,

1154
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 4: Sheen is an amazing woman. She's the mother of Shade Robinson,

1155
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 4: who was lured to it seemed like an ordinary fur

1156
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 4: state and was then very tragically murdered. Her death shocked

1157
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 4: Milwaukee and the nation and has sparked widespread grief, leading

1158
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 4: to activism and inspiration for change, and today her legacy

1159
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 4: lives on through Shady's Voice Foundation. So Sena, Welcome to

1160
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 4: the show.

1161
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 6: Welcome Sheena.

1162
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 7: Hey, hey, beautiful queens. How are you both doing? Journey?

1163
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 7: And Stephanie Courtney and Stephanie is it?

1164
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's buy and body exactly.

1165
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 7: Body, Body Okay, I'm sorry, body, It's okay, I pronounce it.

1166
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 2: Okay, you got it, you got it.

1167
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 7: Thank you guys so much for welcoming me. I received,

1168
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 7: you know, the energy from your panel you all you know,

1169
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 7: I know I'm just talking in spirit right now. So yes,

1170
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 7: I am here on that half of my baby to

1171
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 7: be the voice through her. You know, this is very

1172
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 7: challenging us, all interviews and different things. You don't do

1173
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 7: what I'm speaking on her back, you know, for others.

1174
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 7: But yeah, thank you guys.

1175
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 2: We are honored to have you. We really are honored.

1176
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 2: And we talk about this case and your daughter so often.

1177
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 2: I know you and Courtney have been talking so regularly

1178
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 2: as well, sort of offline on the show.

1179
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 7: Amazing.

1180
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you.

1181
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 2: Know our hearts are really with you, and you know

1182
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 2: you're the type of hero that really is something to

1183
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 2: be inspired by.

1184
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 6: So thank you for sharing your story with us.

1185
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 4: Absolutely and the worst the work you've been doing, Sheena

1186
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 4: is unbelievable. Can you can you tell us how did

1187
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 4: the idea of Shadday's Voice foundation? How did that come about?

1188
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 4: How did you how did that come about?

1189
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 7: Yeah? Yeah, thank you. So this is very like I move.

1190
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 7: I'm a very spiritual person. You know, we are light workers.

1191
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 7: My daughters are not. You know, we move in the universe,

1192
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 7: you know, putting out positive energy always is how raising

1193
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 7: my baby, you know, so like we for this that

1194
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 7: come across us, you know, we were on such a

1195
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 7: path you know as a mother. You know, she has

1196
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 7: a younger sister, so I have another baby. She'll be

1197
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 7: a senior this share and she's you know, she's headed

1198
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 7: to us. W Madison has worked towards, say, you know,

1199
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 7: getting those goals and applying herself throughout this trauma. But

1200
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 7: you know there's many layers when you're a crime victim, okay,

1201
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 7: and then just being a crime victim and walking through

1202
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 7: this as a black woman, you know, in the way

1203
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 7: just you know, being transparent so you know the others

1204
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 7: can understand that for the bipop community, you know, receiving

1205
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 7: the resources when your child is missing and murdered and

1206
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 7: in this you know population of and it's for all,

1207
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 7: I want to be clear, you know this is for

1208
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 7: all missing and murder individuals, but specifically black and business

1209
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 7: people of color are black and brown don't get the

1210
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 7: same height and awareness when it comes to the reporting

1211
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 7: and to be you know, keeping getting the story out,

1212
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 7: like you know, like there is a difference, and so

1213
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 7: like we that's how the foundation to answer your question.

1214
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 7: You know, it kind of came to me very early

1215
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 7: on in this so like how can you be going

1216
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 7: through so much trauma? And like I just knew early on,

1217
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 7: like within a month when I was planning her memorial

1218
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 7: on her birthday, her twentieth birthday last year. You know,

1219
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 7: she was my baby. I haven't seen my baby since

1220
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 7: April the first of twenty and twenty four. I have

1221
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 7: not seen my baby.

1222
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 4: It's unthinkable the last time. Yeah, I was just going

1223
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 4: to say, and the memorial, of course, I only say

1224
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 4: this through viewing news footage, but it was so beautiful

1225
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 4: and to see that gathering and the beautiful singing and

1226
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 4: everyone yeah, and everyone too, and is pink and oh.

1227
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 5: The pink yeah, and the mural, the mural exactly.

1228
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 8: Yes.

1229
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 7: Oh my gosh, I got boosebumps too too. Oh my gosh,

1230
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 7: I just got.

1231
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 5: Yes.

1232
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 7: So I pick up. You know. That's why I said,

1233
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 7: your all energy is very good, and like, I don't

1234
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 7: vibe with all journalists.

1235
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 3: I don't U.

1236
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 7: I'm gonna be honest, you know all you know, but

1237
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 7: it's starting different energy with certain individuals. I pick and

1238
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 7: choose that's going to tell the story. And you know,

1239
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 7: and I appreciate and respect you guys for you know,

1240
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 7: being able to get her story told as it needs

1241
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 7: to be told on multiple platforms, not just for her,

1242
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 7: but there's many others, you know, or the.

1243
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 5: Next one, the next woman that goes missing that's not

1244
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 5: getting the media attention that they do to deserve, right,

1245
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 5: And that's really in the space of SI's Voice foundation.

1246
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 7: It is, and we're going to be implementing you know,

1247
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 7: self defense, facey. You know, oh my god, I found

1248
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 7: Courtney Stephanie bought up body body body, okay body. Yeah,

1249
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 7: it's implementing so many multiple things, and you know, it's

1250
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 7: so challenging. I'm working with, you know, at the state representatives.

1251
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 7: I Wisconsin state representative. She was stubbed in Madison. You know,

1252
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 7: that's where my daughter is going to be going. Her

1253
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 7: college at university was Constant Madison, and you know that's

1254
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 7: where our legislate is, you know, is in the state

1255
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 7: of Wisconsin. So you know, there's a lot of different

1256
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 7: layers that you know, I'm learning as a private to

1257
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 7: mom and challenges you have to go through, you know,

1258
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 7: in the systemic barriers of not only trying to get

1259
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,959
Speaker 7: justice for your child. You go and breathe. Your whole

1260
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 7: life has been this place. But it is it's multiple. Yeah,

1261
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 7: it's very unthinkable. I would not wish this type of

1262
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 7: situation on anyone and then you know the things we

1263
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:19,920
Speaker 7: have to go through in that two weeks unimaginable trial.

1264
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 7: If you were in the courtroom, you know, I know

1265
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 7: it's streams and like we had no control over We've

1266
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 7: had no control over many things like with this this case,

1267
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 7: my daughter's case has been very you know high media

1268
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 7: broadcasted is streams like I didn't have an option to

1269
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 7: tell the people. Look, I don't want the streams, like

1270
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 7: I don't want the world to know this, But like

1271
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 7: that whole things have have gone and worked, you know,

1272
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 7: throughout the case, and there's a lot of different challenges

1273
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 7: with being a crime victim, being having your information exposed,

1274
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 7: you know, not having control, not being able well for

1275
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 7: access your own you know, transcripts and reports in the

1276
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 7: media gets it before you you know, the release of Unfeltrius.

1277
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 7: There's so many challenges that we have had to deal

1278
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 7: with and that I have had the advocate for, uh,

1279
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 7: you know, being able to see the graphic photos of

1280
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 7: my own child. Most parents are not going to do

1281
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 7: this type of stuff, you know, like you know, this

1282
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 7: was an option. I need to know the hell this

1283
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 7: demon to you know, like right, both.

1284
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 2: No, he's a demon by the way, like, let's note,

1285
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 2: can you can rip the band aid off of that?

1286
01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 2: Because this is an unspeakable crime and although we don't

1287
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 2: want to, you know, put you through any of the details.

1288
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 2: He it's unimaginable, which is why I think it's so

1289
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 2: incredible that you're speaking up, because look, you know, you

1290
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 2: said it yourself. Women of color are six times more

1291
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 2: likely to be murdered, and then it's also under investigated,

1292
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 2: so it's like a double a double crime in so

1293
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 2: many ways. And having the four with you know, the

1294
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 2: ability to to speak out during the times that you

1295
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 2: did early on especially too and even now, it's a

1296
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 2: lot to be.

1297
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 7: Like, yeah, thank you. This is not easy at all.

1298
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 7: And I want to be very clear that the community

1299
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 7: I have had a team of light workers. I'll call

1300
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 7: them Shaddy's light Workers and Shaddy's Angels. So that's my son,

1301
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 7: that's the foundation, that Shaddy's voice foundation.

1302
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and listen, you know, I'm just curious because again

1303
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 2: you you're you're sitting in a seat. That's a tough one, right,

1304
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 2: It's it's real loss, and so many do and you know,

1305
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 2: do you have any advice for other mothers who are

1306
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 2: trying to push through after after something so tough, you know,

1307
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 2: is there you have such a light energy about you,

1308
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 2: it's it's really unbelievable.

1309
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 7: Well, now this is just only through again this my

1310
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 7: baby shut Ice guides me daily. Uh, this is uh,

1311
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 7: it's very over. It's over. It's just about walks in

1312
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 7: the way I'm guided. It's the best that I can explain.

1313
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 7: It is challenging. But no to any advice to There's

1314
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 7: a lot of other moms that definitely that I have engaged,

1315
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 7: you know, being a crime victim now, so like a

1316
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 7: lot of we're gonna you know, be advocating other crime victims,

1317
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 7: just kind of maneuvering. Now, that's you know, some of

1318
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:31,919
Speaker 7: the things I'm going to be providing through the foundation.

1319
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 7: Just a lot with the you know, the local moms

1320
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 7: that I have met. There's a lot of other Milwaukee

1321
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 7: moms that have lost their babies. You know, Justice Taylor,

1322
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 7: Justice and Diamond, you know, justice for you know, all

1323
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:47,599
Speaker 7: our babies. And you know, there's a lot of other

1324
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:50,719
Speaker 7: moms you know whose stories. There's a lot of grun guidance,

1325
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 7: there's a lot of other things. There's other babies missing,

1326
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 7: Justice for Jennia Walker, you know, like, yeah, she's still missing,

1327
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 7: you know, as I'm working with her mother again. And

1328
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:05,719
Speaker 7: also like you know, I was mentioning earlier Wisconsin State

1329
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:09,680
Speaker 7: I'm representative, she was Stubbs. So we're working to reintroduce

1330
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 7: the Missing and Murdered task Force for the third time.

1331
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 7: So it's been he's been working on this for a

1332
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:19,879
Speaker 7: few years. Really and I honest, go ahead, sure.

1333
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 2: No, really quick.

1334
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 5: I wanted to actually say, this is Bobby. I wanted

1335
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:26,799
Speaker 5: to say what the state representative, Sheila Stubbs said. She said,

1336
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 5: and it's quite remarkable. She said, I will continue to

1337
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 5: fight to create a Missing and Murdered African American Women

1338
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 5: and Girls task Force in Wisconsin. I am grateful for

1339
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 5: Miss Garborough's continued support of this legislative effort, and I

1340
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 5: will not rest until we get something done for these

1341
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 5: families across our state who are missing and greeting their

1342
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 5: loved ones. It is our obligation as a state to

1343
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:52,640
Speaker 5: prevent the next homicide or missing person's case. And you know,

1344
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 5: I really think that's a testament to shaw Day and

1345
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 5: her the light that you feel from her right like

1346
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 5: she is giving you that that battery basically to keep

1347
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,680
Speaker 5: moving forward. And I know that she's moved out and

1348
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 5: she's so proud of you.

1349
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 2: She's so proud of you. I know she is so

1350
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 2: much honey.

1351
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 7: Oh my god, you guys. She she so bald. Oh

1352
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:21,439
Speaker 7: she was so balsd. She her own trips to Jamaica, y'all. Anyway, Yes,

1353
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 7: she worked two jobs. Yes, my grand teacher shuttle. She

1354
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:28,599
Speaker 7: worked at with Constant Country Club and she booked her

1355
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 7: own trips and had a support and everything. In January

1356
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 7: twenty twenty four, did her own photo shoot. She's a model.

1357
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 2: I was about the beautiful.

1358
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 7: Hebby that was about to be her mommy manager. Oh,

1359
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,640
Speaker 7: death is the sad Robinson all day and every day

1360
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 7: she's beautiful. That's what we do. ABS got the cimis

1361
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 7: and yeah, the sentence is coming up August the first,

1362
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 7: you know, after the cister thing. I definitely would like

1363
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:02,719
Speaker 7: to vibe and you know, I'm trying to work towards

1364
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 7: getting a shot. A's voice speaks for victims podcast Oh

1365
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 7: to be able to yes, And I would love for

1366
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 7: you know, any mentors, sponsors. You know, I've never done

1367
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 7: nothing like you know these things I'm doing running a

1368
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 7: foundation uh, you know a nonprofit. This is a nonprofit,

1369
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 7: you know, so I'm not you know, all donations, all support,

1370
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 7: all you know anything sponsorship. You know, I'm putting this

1371
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 7: into recycle back to other times victumtempings can people.

1372
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 5: They're interested can contact you. If people are interested in

1373
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 5: those things for you can contact you through SHOT's Voice Foundation.

1374
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 7: Yes, definitely, yeah www dot shot as s A D E.

1375
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:49,720
Speaker 7: S Voice Foundation dot com and please have followed. You know,

1376
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 7: this is again I'm one person, a little bit ol

1377
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:56,600
Speaker 7: g mama, you know, trying to manage the kid. Like

1378
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 7: I'm a little old g mama. So like this is

1379
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:01,679
Speaker 7: new to me. Like you know, all those those different

1380
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,800
Speaker 7: you know, keeping up the media and I respect you

1381
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 7: know you guys, which you do, and you know it's

1382
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:10,879
Speaker 7: a lot of multitasking and you know, being a podcast

1383
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 7: or getting the information. This is a different platform and

1384
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:16,479
Speaker 7: you know, I have got respect for it. You know,

1385
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 7: I wasn't really familiar, you know, all the social media,

1386
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 7: all these different things, but you got to find different avenues. Yeah,

1387
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 7: it's very hard that any way to get the information

1388
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 7: out and please you guys with got her clothing line

1389
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:33,960
Speaker 7: as well on the website. Yes, yeah, we got her

1390
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 7: workout fits the already in.

1391
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:45,439
Speaker 4: It's amazing, you know, uploading too to.

1392
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 7: Have workout guess we got yoga workout fits there in

1393
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 7: Black and Brown. The Shaddy's Voice Foundation, those are officially

1394
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 7: please like, I got you guys, Like I'll in like

1395
01:12:56,240 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 7: ship them out to you to get everything. Yeah, I'm

1396
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,560
Speaker 7: trying to get everything up welded on the way inside.

1397
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:07,680
Speaker 7: And you know, my baby, she's the vice president of

1398
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 7: the foundation. She's like, that's your baby's sister. She's a boss.

1399
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:17,480
Speaker 7: Oh my gosh, he's so genius.

1400
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:19,439
Speaker 2: I was going to say, the apples and the trees

1401
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 2: don't fall far.

1402
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 6: We well know.

1403
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 4: Four point eight GPA. I was literally during the break

1404
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 4: bragging on.

1405
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:26,720
Speaker 6: Her to these guys.

1406
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:28,599
Speaker 4: I was so you should I wasn't.

1407
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I have.

1408
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:31,960
Speaker 6: An idea too.

1409
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, we have you here right like again,

1410
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 2: I know we have There's so many other cases like this.

1411
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:41,480
Speaker 6: It's a very underserved scenario.

1412
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:44,960
Speaker 2: Imagine that black and brown women their cases are six

1413
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 2: times as much and not getting investigated. Maybe you can

1414
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 2: come back weekly here and we can kind of keep

1415
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 2: momentum going and highlight some of the other cases and

1416
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 2: causes that it's a really big initiative for us, you know,

1417
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 2: unfortunately to nauseating and you know, listen, whatever we can

1418
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 2: do to chip in and help.

1419
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 6: I know, the audience and I'm speaking on.

1420
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:12,799
Speaker 2: Behalf of all of us really want to help and support.

1421
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:15,719
Speaker 2: So whatever we can do to raise awareness and also

1422
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 2: give a voice to other mothers who are experiencing other

1423
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 2: things and other losses that you know, kind of need

1424
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:24,719
Speaker 2: to be shared.

1425
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:27,800
Speaker 6: We kind of heal together. Everybody you know has a place.

1426
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's what we got to do as a community.

1427
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,639
Speaker 7: And that's why you guys, y'all energy is so amazing

1428
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 7: and I really appreciate that. Yeah, you y'all support and

1429
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 7: for us to be able to get the other voices

1430
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 7: and stories told and heard and definitely at least some

1431
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:45,600
Speaker 7: mentors for Shadow's.

1432
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 5: Voice of course, you got that.

1433
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean listen, you're the boss. You're the boss

1434
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 2: of all those babies. We believe it takes a.

1435
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:00,760
Speaker 7: It takes a village, and this is you know, like

1436
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:04,640
Speaker 7: I stayd you know, after the verdicts, you know, this

1437
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:07,400
Speaker 7: demon was not guilty and for verdicts and like I

1438
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 7: you know, rightiated for like three minutes. Oh my gosh,

1439
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:19,240
Speaker 7: like it was. So I was like in a trance,

1440
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 7: you know, like spiritually, like I can't explain, you know,

1441
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 7: like having to see your child, you know, on this

1442
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 7: level just member by this demon and you're sitting this

1443
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 7: close like you know, spiritually, like I like I was

1444
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 7: in a spiritual battle like whipperly literally in a courtroom,

1445
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:42,559
Speaker 7: like I can't explain it, Like I was in a trance,

1446
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 7: like you know, I was in a spiritual um talking

1447
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:47,559
Speaker 7: to my babies, like you know, like I'm communicating her

1448
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 7: like I'm She's a maneuver and me do everything I do.

1449
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 3: Jail.

1450
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 2: I believe that.

1451
01:15:55,040 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 4: In the room. I can't imagine the restraint of Yeah.

1452
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 4: So that's a battle of you one of you know,

1453
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:04,680
Speaker 4: composure and grace and.

1454
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 7: The family you know, and disrespectfully you know, like you

1455
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:12,680
Speaker 7: know we're past the criminal. I'm going into civil you know,

1456
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 7: I'm getting everybody will be held accountable.

1457
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:17,760
Speaker 9: You know, the family, you know for covering up and

1458
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 9: hide and stuff. You know that demon Dad, you know

1459
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:25,840
Speaker 9: that that you know he's next. Don't play good, don't

1460
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:29,639
Speaker 9: play with me. Listen, don't play.

1461
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:32,640
Speaker 4: You're a powerhouse. The powerhouse is right, so she know

1462
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:37,599
Speaker 4: we're about to be pretty rudely interrupted by music and commercials. Again,

1463
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:40,759
Speaker 4: so I want to do this in a civilized manner,

1464
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 4: and we all want to thank you so profoundly for

1465
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 4: coming on the show.

1466
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 7: You guys are so many.

1467
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:48,960
Speaker 6: We're sending you so much light and love.

1468
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and vibe.

1469
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 7: I would love to come back weekly and vibe with

1470
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:55,080
Speaker 7: you guys.

1471
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 4: Definitely, absolutely will be in touch down you know, I'm

1472
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 4: totally down. Probably tomorrow.

1473
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1474
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, we brought you back tomorrow, yeah, exactly, so I.

1475
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:08,200
Speaker 4: Will, we will. We will be keeping in very close touch.

1476
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 4: And I'm just gonna shout out some information so everyone

1477
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:16,920
Speaker 4: has it. Shena, It's a Shadai's Voice is a family

1478
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:21,080
Speaker 4: run nonprofit. It carries out Shada's legacy by speaking out

1479
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:26,400
Speaker 4: for primarily underserved BIPOC, black, Indigenous people of color individuals

1480
01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 4: who are missing or murdered. And again, thank you for

1481
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:34,240
Speaker 4: being here. We will see you again. It has been

1482
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 4: an absolute honor and everyone please make sure to go

1483
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 4: to Shadi's Voicefoundation dot com for more information and updates

1484
01:17:43,439 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 4: and to donate. You can also follow Shena on Instagram

1485
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 4: at Shina Scarborough.

1486
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 6: I'm following you right now, Shina.

1487
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:55,479
Speaker 2: I'm gonna add you make sure you accept, and we're

1488
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 2: gonna buy some workout clothes in honor of Shahdah. And yes,

1489
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 2: let's give a shot A's voice a voice here, right,

1490
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:05,760
Speaker 2: So maybe we just make this a regular segment that

1491
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 2: we can do weekly because unfortunately you're not alone in this,

1492
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:11,639
Speaker 2: and just know that we all got your back.

1493
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 4: Percent does this alone and we are with you.

1494
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 5: So yeah, you know that was kind of one of

1495
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:20,519
Speaker 5: the mandates of us kind of getting together too, right,

1496
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:23,320
Speaker 5: was to raise awareness for cases that we felt weren't

1497
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 5: you know, we were getting underserved and no attention. So

1498
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 5: she's just so she I just got the chills from her,

1499
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:32,160
Speaker 5: and I just really enjoyed her energy and I just

1500
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,640
Speaker 5: can't imagine the strength that it takes for her to

1501
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:38,840
Speaker 5: do this every day. But I truly believe shot Day's

1502
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:40,000
Speaker 5: light is inside of her.

1503
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:43,960
Speaker 2: She got it from somewhere, right, That's right. That is

1504
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:47,559
Speaker 2: for sure. Such a great night, everybody. Thank you, ladies.

1505
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 2: I'm crazy for you and I just love getting to

1506
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:53,840
Speaker 2: hang with you. And yeah, listen, we're off tomorrow back

1507
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:56,880
Speaker 2: on Sunday, so make sure you join us. This is

1508
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 2: true crime tonight. We're talking true crime all the time,

1509
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:11,320
Speaker 2: have a great night, stay safe,