WEBVTT - The Power of Validation w/ Dr. Zack Blumkin 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:05.040 Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:08.840 in partnership with I Heart Radio. When somebody is learning 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.200 something new, to indicate what they're doing well, and not 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.040 to just say good job, but good job for pain 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:16.479 in the party, it makes me so happy, kind of 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.880 using the frame exactly labeled exactly what they're doing, saying 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:21.680 how it makes you feel. As a parent, that could 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:25.079 be really effective at changing behaviors. Now, you absolutely do 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.760 not want to praise every single minute on every single issue, 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.159 because then you know it might be really difficult for 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.360 the children to actually build their own internal ability to 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.160 praise themselves and to recognize that they're proud for themselves 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.919 and they won't necessarily always seek it externally. But certainly 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:53.239 most parents aren't praising enough. Hello, everybody, Welcome back to 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:58.280 Katie's Crib. I am sitting across the screen from somebody 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:03.720 who I have so many mutual friends with that I man, 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:07.560 I've I think so highly of you without knowing you 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.440 because the people we share in common. My best friend 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:12.840 Amy Rosof Davis, who has been on this podcast, the 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:15.759 incredible Sasha Sagan who's been a guest on this podcast. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.120 I love them both so much and they speak so 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:23.679 highly of you. Zachary K. Blumpkin. Guys, we're talking today 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:29.440 about children's feelings and internal validation. I know we're going 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:31.360 to talk about it in terms of parenting and children, 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.680 but I feel like this goes a very long way 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:38.560 with adults as well, and across every department avenue of 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:42.880 your life. UM. Doctor Zachary Kay Blumpkin is a licensed 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.040 psychologist and the clinical director of the Columbia Day Program 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:50.160 at Columbia University Irving Medical Center in Midtown Manhattan. In 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.880 addition to his clinical and administrative roles, Dr blump Can 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:56.480 coordinates the evidence based treatments courts for the psychology trainees 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.920 and psychiatry fellows in the Division of Child and ADELA 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.960 since Psychiatry at c U I m C, and he 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.320 specializes in working with children at a lessons to young 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:11.079 adults and adults. Zack, thank you so much for coming 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:16.680 on to Katie's crib. I think this might be my 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:21.120 most important podcast episode, UM, only because I do think 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.840 that if we can get this one pretty good, it 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:30.600 really helps everything else that might be right. Yeah, Well, 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:34.200 first off, thanks for having me for introduction and dropping 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.880 Amy and Sasha's name whom I whom I love. UM, 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:41.239 I agree. I think validation and talking about emotions with 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.600 children is such an important topic. I think it's something 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.680 that we don't often UM hear a lot about and 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:48.960 get a lot about a lot of instruction on how 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.720 to kind of um do this effectively in a way 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:55.000 that really helps our children and avoid maybe some fitfalls 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.440 that we do as parents that actually kind of impact 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:02.040 their ability to understand their emotions, recognize them, and really 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:06.079 important to learn to cope with them. You have kids yourself. 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.240 I have three boys. Oh, I mean, we should just 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.400 do an episode on three boys. What are their ages? 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.640 So I have seven recently seven recently, five last week, 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:20.400 and then I have a COVID baby who's going to 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.239 turn to in September. So my home not only is 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.160 it the wild West, but it often smells like urine 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.360 in different places, and we have no idea why oh yeah, 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.440 just let it go mt A bathroom. Yeah, you know, 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.280 we just are. We can't have nice things, That's what 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.760 I say. We can't have nice things. We can't have 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.640 nice clothes, we can't have a rug, we can't it's 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.920 just get involved in not knowing where the pee smell 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.880 is coming from and survive you know, Okay. In researching 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.360 and preparing for this episode, I really there are so 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.120 many things I want to ask you, but let's start 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.840 with um on psych hubs ask the expert series. You 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:01.200 mentioned the difference, so let's start here between validation and praise. 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:06.720 What is the difference? Yeah? So this this is really 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.080 really important for parents to pick up praise as a 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:12.760 parent to a child, or you know, a husband to 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.599 uh their partner, or wife to their partner, whomever, is 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.320 indicating to somebody that you're happy or you like what 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.719 they did. I think that was good. You make me 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.120 so happy, Thank you for doing that. It makes me 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.680 feel good. Phrase is really really important because it communicates 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:30.440 the individual. What's you, what you want? So it instructs 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:34.720 your kid what you want to see and what's nice? Right. 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.400 I think that the issue that we have generally in 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:40.320 our society, I think is twofold one is we like 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.839 to criticize more than praise, and most parents are actually 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:48.479 using many more criticisms to praise. Usually it's about ten 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.719 criticisms to one praise, when research indicates we want to 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.240 try for four praises to one criticism. Now, I want 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:56.800 to be clear, I'm gonna talk a lot about what 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.040 parents should do, and I'll recognize I don't even do 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.360 it all the time. Try my best. Of course, three 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:06.279 boys under seven is really really hard, and at the 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.360 same time, we want to try to praise whenever we can. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.360 When I hear a lot of parents say good job 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:13.760 all the time, it kind of like drives me nuts, 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.640 Like good job you Pete on the potty or whatever, 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.359 and like that's good the first year obviously, but like 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.480 if we're still doing this for like a seven year old, 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.160 Am I wrong to think that like that? There are 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:29.520 parents that overpraise. They're definitely parents and and people in 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.719 general that I think when they praise, they don't always 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.800 use it as effectively as possible. So absolutely, when somebody 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.080 is learning something new, to indicate what they're doing well 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.200 and not to just say good job, but good job 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.360 for Pete in the potty, it makes me so happy. 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.640 Kind of using the frame exactly labeled, exactly what they're doing, 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:48.960 saying how it makes you feel as a parent, that 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.520 could be really effective at changing behaviors. Now, you absolutely 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:54.600 do not want to praise every single minute, on every 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.160 single issue, because then you know, it might be really 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.880 difficult for the children to actually build that own internal 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.880 ability to praise themselves and to recognize that they're proud 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.279 for themselves, and they won't necessarily always seek it externally. 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:10.520 But certainly most parents aren't praising enough. And I would 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.520 agree with you. You don't want to praise for every 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.000 single thing all of the time for many, many years. 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.279 It's probably not going to be helpful. Wow, so most 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:22.240 parents are not praising? What are they? What is a 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:25.720 criticism sound? I think I do criticize a lot, now 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.400 that I'm thinking about it. I think my criticism in 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:34.480 my household came about much more post two years old, 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:38.400 and definitely went the introduction of my second uh, my daughter, 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:40.760 because so much of it is like, don't do that. 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:42.919 You can't touch her body like that. Listen to the 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:44.919 sound she's making. She doesn't want to be touched like that, 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:46.440 she doesn't want to be hugged. You have to take 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.000 the toy. Like everything got more complicated. And you're right, 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:54.080 it is a lot of criticism. What what is validation? 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.480 What's the difference? So validation is very different, and I 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.200 think validation is really important because we don't. You're a 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.560 lot about it, and it often gets confused with praise. 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.760 Validation is communicating to somebody that you hear them, that 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.200 you understand them. And let's think of it specifically in 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.400 the sort of sense of you understand their emotions. I 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:17.000 understand how you're feeling, I understand how you're thinking. I 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.920 might even understand how you engaged in a certain or 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.720 why you engaged in a certain behavior, even if I 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.440 don't agree with any of those. So it's the skill 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:29.160 of really listening and hearing somebody else out, which is 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:34.080 hard to do, m okay. So an example would be, 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:41.680 let's say my son has a complete temper tantrum because 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.480 his sister took a toy that he had been working 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:50.520 very hard on. Um validation would be would be something like, 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:52.960 I hear that you're really upset right now, and I 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.840 understand that you're very angry that she took your toy 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:59.720 and that stinks. You know, that's really hard for you 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:03.040 for her, and I'm sorry. Like, is that validation is 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:07.480 that the vocabulary would sound like yes, exactly. It sounds 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:09.280 like you were already trained up, you know exactly what 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.000 you're doing. And I imagine many parents and call are 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.120 going to say, wait, wait, wait, slow down, he just 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.000 took her toy. What are we talking about here? So 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:19.720 just to be really clear, a lot of the work 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.840 on validation was sort of formalized in dialectical behavior therapy. 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.840 And I don't know how much we'll get into that today, um, 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.960 but dialectical behavior therapy is the idea that what dialectics 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.160 is the idea that two opposing ideas can both be 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.040 true at the same time. I love this, this is 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:40.280 my marriage, I love this, we are both things can 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:45.600 exist and happen simultaneously. Yes, it is an amazing therapeutic 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:50.840 or theoretical orientation therapeutic a set of skills developed by 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:55.080 Marcea Lenahan for adolescents by Jill Rathus and Alec Miller. 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.000 And and the idea is exactly what you said, A 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.520 child took the toy, so we would want to focus 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.240 on the dialectics of change. You're not allowed to take 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.720 somebody else's toy without asking, so we're actually not going 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.840 to permit that to happen. And acceptance. I will also 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.760 accept how that young child feels in that moment. And 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.040 if I validated your son or you validated your son, 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:16.160 who said, I know you're really angry. I know you 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.240 really wanted to play with the toy, and it makes 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.680 sense to me that maybe, um, you got really upset 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:25.640 by this. Hopefully your son would become more regulated, will 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.920 feel heard, and then himself recognized maybe I shouldn't have 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.960 taken that toy. I really reflected on the idea that 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.920 his behavior on getting that toy wasn't super effective, and 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.120 he's more likely in the future to do something differently. 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.520 It could be a really validation could be a really 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.640 helpful tool in bringing people down and helping them feel 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.719 more regulated, more heard, so they can now process new 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:50.200 information and make more effective decisions in lies. And by 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:51.439 the way, you can use this with your kids, you 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.080 can use this with partners, you can use it with anybody. Um, 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.200 validation is an amazing tool. Now. The trick here, though, Katie, 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.840 is sometimes you don't always agree, and that's okay. You 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.719 don't need to agree with somebody to validate them as 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:05.959 long as you can hear them. You wouldn't want to 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.120 validate the invalid which is a whole another path that 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:11.640 you have to be careful about. What does that mean? 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.400 So if somebody is stating something that is false or inaccurate. 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.680 You wouldn't want to validate that because that would reinforce 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.880 an inaccurate version of what is likely to happen. So 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.160 sometimes people will come to anything, Zach, I'm really scared 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.520 to fly because the plane is going to crash. Would 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:30.520 never validate that the plane is going to crash because 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.520 it would be really unlikely that it's going to crash. 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.160 But I could validate that it's really really difficult to 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.080 get into a plane, yeah, and get shot into the 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.200 atmosphere if you don't know anything about jet propulsion and 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.440 you haven't done in a long time, uh, and you 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:47.240 have a history of anxiety. Of course, you validate, validate, validate, 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:49.199 and hopefully that individual will feel a little bit more 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.040 comfortable with the idea of getting plant and then can 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.000 use skills to effectively cope while they're in the plane. 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:59.080 Invalidation is something that inevitably we all do, and it's 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.560 communiqu geating too. In this case, our children that their thoughts, 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:08.079 their emotions, and their behaviors are wrong for a situation, 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.760 all right, And so if you're constantly telling in a child, 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.960 you know you shouldn't think that way. You know that 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:16.680 that's not the way to think about it. That's wrong 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.480 to think about it that way, or don't feel that way. 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.960 You should change how you feel. That's not helpful. If 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:25.160 you continue to um kind of bombard them with that 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.160 invalidation or the communication that what they're thinking or feeling 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:33.160 is wrong, that can actually dramatically impact how they understand 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.960 and see the world because they're constantly then questioning how 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.440 they're feeling and how they're thinking. But here's the other 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.680 key piece. They know how they feel. So if they 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.560 feel guilty and people tell them repeatedly, don't feel guilty, 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.320 don't feel guilty, don't feel guilty, don't feel guilty, well 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.840 they know that they feel guilty. So not only are 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.160 they going to struggle with understanding their own emotions and 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.520 why they're feeling this way, but they're gonna stop trusting 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.560 other folks and why other folks are communicating this to me? 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.000 Because I know I feel guilty. So, Katie, why are 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:03.840 you telling me to stop feeling this way? It's feeling 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.320 this way because this is how I feel. Yeah, I'm 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.120 very careful, you know with boys, and you know they 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:14.520 say if somebody is really sad, you know and and 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.480 saying it's okay, it's okay, you're okay, you're okay, just 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:19.760 stop that this. We're not crying right now like any 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.400 of that stuff. It's like, no, like if your kids 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.600 upset or sad about something, you know, you're like, I 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.679 hear that you're really sad, and I'm that's let's just 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:30.760 be sad for a little bit. I'll say here, I'll 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:32.600 be sad with you for a while. Let's be sad 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.880 until we're not sad anymore, you know, absolutely, And again 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:40.959 just to kind of emphasize this, when you tell that 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.360 child not to be sad, you're telling them what they're 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:48.360 feeling is wrong, even though they're feeling that way right. 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.719 So they lose that trust in themselves that I know 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:55.240 what I'm feeling is accurate. But they also lose trust 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:56.840 in what other people are saying to them because they 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.200 also know that they really feel sad and nobody's listening. 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.280 So it really if it's if it's done chronically and severely, 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.959 it can really lead to some negative outcomes in sense 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:12.199 of self self esteem and other areas. M I always 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:16.040 equated to and tell me, like, you know how you 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.960 yawn and someone else yawns. So if my son, for 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:21.520 all of you listening, we have a lot of listeners 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:25.200 who have toddlers and young children, and if my kid 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:30.400 is having a freak out about something, validation always helps 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:34.679 me at least try to be calm and then like 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:39.000 a yawn. I hope that at some point he is 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:44.960 better matching my calmness and regulated validation than if I 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.520 were to also start yelling, which, by the way, I 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.559 am fucking guilty of as well. I think sometimes it's 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:52.960 so hard that I have a parenting podcast because I 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.120 know what I'm supposed to be doing, but that doesn't 0:13:55.200 --> 0:14:00.199 mean that I'm always working at that vibration. It's hard. 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.120 It's hard. Sometimes you just really want to yell, and 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:08.680 then they yell too. It's like I'm trying though. Um Okay, 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:10.800 we did through a step by step breakdown. I think 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.880 we should do this again because you're talking about dialectics, 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.600 but let's talk about the body language. So the first 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:22.040 things you could do if you were validating someone's tantrum, 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.440 I see that you're upset, I hear that you're upset, 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:28.640 something like that, immediately you're trying to It almost feels 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.240 like from an acting standpoint like empathy, right, like put 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:35.360 yourself in someone else's shoes. What is the body language 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.520 for validation? Look like yeah, so, I mean the first 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.920 step really is non verbal, and you want to kind 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.000 of walk over to them, sit down, You could rub 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.600 their back, took their heads, get down to where they 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.080 are and make that eye contact, show them that you're 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:53.400 really listening and look at similar to you. I understand 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.160 in this moment, we really need to get to sarcer practice. 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.920 We're late for the birthday party, we really need to 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.640 get to the airport, and you do not want to 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.400 get in your fucking car seat class absolutely not, absolutely not, 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:07.640 and this is likely going to be in One of 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.760 the most effective ways to actually get them moving quickly 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.440 is to actually sit down, get with them, get to 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:17.520 their eye level, really show them that you're listening. Can 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:22.320 be a super effective way of starting validation and validating 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.040 in itself. The next piece you're gonna want to do 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.400 is what we would call kind of reflection or accurate reflection. 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.400 You're gonna want to ask them what's going on. I 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:33.080 know you don't want to get into your car seat 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.840 because it's uncomfortable. If you got it right on the 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.440 first job on the first shot. That's great. They're gonna 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.120 not They're gonna say yes, if you got it wrong, 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:43.760 it's okay because you can then ask them, oh, why 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:45.760 don't you want to get in your car seat? Because 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.160 it's too hot in the car. Okay, so let's see 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:50.960 what we can do to fix that. In that moment, 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.440 reflecting back to them, I know it's not always comfortable 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.160 in the car because it gets hot. I get that, 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.840 And let's talk about some ways to maybe make the 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.680 car a little bit cooler for you during the right there. Yeah, see, 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.760 my son doesn't get in the car seat. I could 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.520 be completely wrong, but I'm pretty sure my son doesn't 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.840 like anything where he's not in the position of power 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.600 or autonomy. Right, So, like he doesn't want to get 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:17.840 in a car seat, he doesn't want to get dressed. Um, 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.080 which is like classic four year old ship show. I 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:22.840 mean we've gotten I don't take him to school in 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.800 his clothes ever, I drop him off in pajamas. There's 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.680 a stack of guys listening. This is like I have 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.200 I can't believe the mother I am. I can't believe it. 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.640 But in the in the in the battles, I can't. 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:38.520 I can't. I can't do it in the morning. I've 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.560 realized that I am not operating at a high vibrational 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.360 place where I can do validation and all this ship 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.440 when I just need him to get dressed and get 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.200 out the door. So his preschool was like, forget it, 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:53.120 bring him in his pajamas will change him. At some point, 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.600 He's not going to wear his pajamas to school when 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:57.920 he's a teenager because he's going to care what people think. 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.680 Maybe absolute I mean, and what you're talking about, Katie, 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.440 is a beautiful skill of picking your battles. So my 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:07.560 five year old, I almost said, four you because it 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.680 just his birthday, just had his birthday, Happy birthday, Yeah, 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.840 thank you. He he's just started to refuse to wear shorts. 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:18.200 So in New York right now it's about ninety degrees 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:23.040 and he's just wearing jeans right now. It's so hot. 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.320 But you know what, it's absolutely I'm just not going 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.080 to pick that battle, because you're absolutely right. He will 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.600 eventually transition to shorts. He will get hot, he will 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.080 get uncomfortable, and he'll do it in that moment. I'm 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:35.600 just not going to pick that battle, which is a 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:39.480 really important parenting strategy to to think about, because sometimes 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.760 they really do need that control in that autonomy, and 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.440 that's important. And as long as you're okay with pajamas 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.240 at pre school and I'm okay with jeans in the summer, 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.439 which I would never do, then we're good. Just let 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:52.159 you know, we're just gonna let it go. And I 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.520 had to really look at why I was upset about 0:17:55.560 --> 0:18:00.960 the pajamas to school, and it really was about my grandmother, 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.159 like like literally, like if I really looked at it, 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.760 I was like, why is this such a sticking point 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.160 that he has to wear clothes to school? And it's 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:12.480 because I hear are wonderful nanny who's very traditional and 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.760 cares a lot about like appearances, and my grandmother the same. 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.200 And I was like wow, Like I felt like inside 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:19.720 like I was failing that I was going to show 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:21.760 up with my kid in school. He's in his Christmas 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.080 pajamas today with light bulbs all over it from a 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:26.520 Christmas tree, and I literally look at us, like, but 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.080 he's happy. He's happier than on the mornings where I 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.160 forced him to get dressed. And it gets like physical 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.160 and awful and just emotional and it's a fucking nightmare. 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:48.720 This has been so much better. What is emotional disregulation 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:53.280 versus regulation? Yeah, so a lot of times we're going 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:58.200 to see our our younger folks, right are toddler's latecy 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.720 age kids, and obviously teenagers and adults as well, in 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:05.639 kind of a state of disregulation, meaning that their mood, 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:11.320 their emotions, maybe their thoughts, maybe their behaviors or what 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.520 we would consider out of control in a way that's 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.440 not effective, not helpful, and like like likely for for parents, 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.640 pissing us off, right, And so we're going to see 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.240 that and in that moment we can kind of reflect it. 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.879 They are not in control in this moment. And you 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:29.879 want to actually think about two different types of disregulation, 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.560 because we see this, but we don't always recognize the 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.359 second type. The first type is underregulated. So these are 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.800 individuals that are having that tantrum. We all know what 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:40.880 a tantrum looks like. I know what a tantrum looks 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.600 like with all three of my boys. But another type 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.920 of disregulation is what we would call overregulation, and these 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.760 are individuals that are so regulated that they're not even 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.760 allowing themselves to feel anything. So I want you to 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.240 think about. And it's hard to see in a toddler, 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.000 but it might be easier for for us to think 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.639 about with maybe some unfortunately some of our our friends 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:01.960 or FAMI the members who have been really really depressed 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:03.760 and can't get out of the bed and sort of 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.160 pull the covers over your head. Or what you can 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.520 see is you see toddlers who are severely, severely anxious. 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:13.600 They're overly regulated. So they're not moving there, not sort 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:18.200 of um putting their emotions out there. They're controlling everything 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:21.040 to the best of their ability, whether that's controlling what 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.920 they're eating, controlling how much they're speaking, controlling whether they're 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.399 going to the bathroom. Oh yeah, I've heard about that. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.160 Oh my god. So these are individuals who are so 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.119 out of control that they become overregulated in a way. 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.160 And we miss those kids sometimes because sometimes those kids 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:40.760 are actually performing well on a superficial level. It's like 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:44.200 they're doing all the rules, they're doing what they're supposed 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:46.720 to be doing, so no one looks or even thinks 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.800 to look that something could be wrong. Wow, that's really interesting. Yeah, 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.480 So you want to be mindful for that and kids 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:55.440 that kind of meet that level and you can tell 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.080 they're just really really anxious or they're really just trying 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:00.200 to hold it together, and that's how they is that 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:11.159 and then what's under that's overregulated? What's underregulated? Okay, screaming, yelling, throwing, kicking, okay, 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.800 and so then any so your goal is once we've 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:20.800 crossed into that, the most important thing is getting them 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:24.000 to a regulated level. Like that's your job as a parent. 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.320 And I tried to express this expresses to my husband 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.840 all the time. He had to learn that when you 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:33.359 are not regulated, you are either overregulated or underregulated. Is 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:39.119 not the time for a teaching moment. No, no, Katie, 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:42.520 you're you're absolutely right. Um. Although you know, I don't 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:44.280 blame or judge your husband because I think we in 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.880