1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. When somebody is learning 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: something new, to indicate what they're doing well, and not 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: to just say good job, but good job for pain 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 1: in the party, it makes me so happy, kind of 6 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: using the frame exactly labeled exactly what they're doing, saying 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: how it makes you feel. As a parent, that could 8 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: be really effective at changing behaviors. Now, you absolutely do 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: not want to praise every single minute on every single issue, 10 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: because then you know it might be really difficult for 11 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: the children to actually build their own internal ability to 12 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: praise themselves and to recognize that they're proud for themselves 13 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: and they won't necessarily always seek it externally. But certainly 14 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: most parents aren't praising enough. Hello, everybody, Welcome back to 15 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: Katie's Crib. I am sitting across the screen from somebody 16 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: who I have so many mutual friends with that I man, 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: I've I think so highly of you without knowing you 18 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: because the people we share in common. My best friend 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: Amy Rosof Davis, who has been on this podcast, the 20 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: incredible Sasha Sagan who's been a guest on this podcast. 21 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: I love them both so much and they speak so 22 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: highly of you. Zachary K. Blumpkin. Guys, we're talking today 23 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: about children's feelings and internal validation. I know we're going 24 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: to talk about it in terms of parenting and children, 25 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 1: but I feel like this goes a very long way 26 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: with adults as well, and across every department avenue of 27 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: your life. UM. Doctor Zachary Kay Blumpkin is a licensed 28 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: psychologist and the clinical director of the Columbia Day Program 29 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: at Columbia University Irving Medical Center in Midtown Manhattan. In 30 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: addition to his clinical and administrative roles, Dr blump Can 31 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: coordinates the evidence based treatments courts for the psychology trainees 32 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: and psychiatry fellows in the Division of Child and ADELA 33 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: since Psychiatry at c U I m C, and he 34 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: specializes in working with children at a lessons to young 35 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: adults and adults. Zack, thank you so much for coming 36 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: on to Katie's crib. I think this might be my 37 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: most important podcast episode, UM, only because I do think 38 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: that if we can get this one pretty good, it 39 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: really helps everything else that might be right. Yeah, Well, 40 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: first off, thanks for having me for introduction and dropping 41 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: Amy and Sasha's name whom I whom I love. UM, 42 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 1: I agree. I think validation and talking about emotions with 43 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: children is such an important topic. I think it's something 44 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: that we don't often UM hear a lot about and 45 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: get a lot about a lot of instruction on how 46 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: to kind of um do this effectively in a way 47 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: that really helps our children and avoid maybe some fitfalls 48 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: that we do as parents that actually kind of impact 49 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: their ability to understand their emotions, recognize them, and really 50 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: important to learn to cope with them. You have kids yourself. 51 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: I have three boys. Oh, I mean, we should just 52 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: do an episode on three boys. What are their ages? 53 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: So I have seven recently seven recently, five last week, 54 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: and then I have a COVID baby who's going to 55 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 1: turn to in September. So my home not only is 56 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: it the wild West, but it often smells like urine 57 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: in different places, and we have no idea why oh yeah, 58 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: just let it go mt A bathroom. Yeah, you know, 59 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: we just are. We can't have nice things, That's what 60 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: I say. We can't have nice things. We can't have 61 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: nice clothes, we can't have a rug, we can't it's 62 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: just get involved in not knowing where the pee smell 63 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: is coming from and survive you know, Okay. In researching 64 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: and preparing for this episode, I really there are so 65 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: many things I want to ask you, but let's start 66 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: with um on psych hubs ask the expert series. You 67 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: mentioned the difference, so let's start here between validation and praise. 68 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: What is the difference? Yeah? So this this is really 69 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: really important for parents to pick up praise as a 70 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: parent to a child, or you know, a husband to 71 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: uh their partner, or wife to their partner, whomever, is 72 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: indicating to somebody that you're happy or you like what 73 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: they did. I think that was good. You make me 74 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: so happy, Thank you for doing that. It makes me 75 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: feel good. Phrase is really really important because it communicates 76 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: the individual. What's you, what you want? So it instructs 77 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: your kid what you want to see and what's nice? Right. 78 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: I think that the issue that we have generally in 79 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: our society, I think is twofold one is we like 80 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: to criticize more than praise, and most parents are actually 81 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: using many more criticisms to praise. Usually it's about ten 82 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: criticisms to one praise, when research indicates we want to 83 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: try for four praises to one criticism. Now, I want 84 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: to be clear, I'm gonna talk a lot about what 85 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: parents should do, and I'll recognize I don't even do 86 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: it all the time. Try my best. Of course, three 87 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: boys under seven is really really hard, and at the 88 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: same time, we want to try to praise whenever we can. 89 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: When I hear a lot of parents say good job 90 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: all the time, it kind of like drives me nuts, 91 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: Like good job you Pete on the potty or whatever, 92 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 1: and like that's good the first year obviously, but like 93 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: if we're still doing this for like a seven year old, 94 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: Am I wrong to think that like that? There are 95 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: parents that overpraise. They're definitely parents and and people in 96 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: general that I think when they praise, they don't always 97 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: use it as effectively as possible. So absolutely, when somebody 98 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: is learning something new, to indicate what they're doing well 99 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: and not to just say good job, but good job 100 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: for Pete in the potty, it makes me so happy. 101 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: Kind of using the frame exactly labeled, exactly what they're doing, 102 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: saying how it makes you feel as a parent, that 103 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: could be really effective at changing behaviors. Now, you absolutely 104 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: do not want to praise every single minute, on every 105 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: single issue, because then you know, it might be really 106 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: difficult for the children to actually build that own internal 107 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: ability to praise themselves and to recognize that they're proud 108 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: for themselves, and they won't necessarily always seek it externally. 109 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: But certainly most parents aren't praising enough. And I would 110 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: agree with you. You don't want to praise for every 111 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: single thing all of the time for many, many years. 112 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: It's probably not going to be helpful. Wow, so most 113 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: parents are not praising? What are they? What is a 114 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: criticism sound? I think I do criticize a lot, now 115 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: that I'm thinking about it. I think my criticism in 116 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: my household came about much more post two years old, 117 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: and definitely went the introduction of my second uh, my daughter, 118 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: because so much of it is like, don't do that. 119 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: You can't touch her body like that. Listen to the 120 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: sound she's making. She doesn't want to be touched like that, 121 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: she doesn't want to be hugged. You have to take 122 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: the toy. Like everything got more complicated. And you're right, 123 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: it is a lot of criticism. What what is validation? 124 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: What's the difference? So validation is very different, and I 125 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: think validation is really important because we don't. You're a 126 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: lot about it, and it often gets confused with praise. 127 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: Validation is communicating to somebody that you hear them, that 128 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: you understand them. And let's think of it specifically in 129 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: the sort of sense of you understand their emotions. I 130 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: understand how you're feeling, I understand how you're thinking. I 131 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: might even understand how you engaged in a certain or 132 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: why you engaged in a certain behavior, even if I 133 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: don't agree with any of those. So it's the skill 134 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: of really listening and hearing somebody else out, which is 135 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: hard to do, m okay. So an example would be, 136 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: let's say my son has a complete temper tantrum because 137 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: his sister took a toy that he had been working 138 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: very hard on. Um validation would be would be something like, 139 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: I hear that you're really upset right now, and I 140 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: understand that you're very angry that she took your toy 141 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: and that stinks. You know, that's really hard for you 142 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: for her, and I'm sorry. Like, is that validation is 143 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: that the vocabulary would sound like yes, exactly. It sounds 144 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: like you were already trained up, you know exactly what 145 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: you're doing. And I imagine many parents and call are 146 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: going to say, wait, wait, wait, slow down, he just 147 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: took her toy. What are we talking about here? So 148 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: just to be really clear, a lot of the work 149 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: on validation was sort of formalized in dialectical behavior therapy. 150 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: And I don't know how much we'll get into that today, um, 151 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: but dialectical behavior therapy is the idea that what dialectics 152 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: is the idea that two opposing ideas can both be 153 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: true at the same time. I love this, this is 154 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: my marriage, I love this, we are both things can 155 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: exist and happen simultaneously. Yes, it is an amazing therapeutic 156 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: or theoretical orientation therapeutic a set of skills developed by 157 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: Marcea Lenahan for adolescents by Jill Rathus and Alec Miller. 158 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: And and the idea is exactly what you said, A 159 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: child took the toy, so we would want to focus 160 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: on the dialectics of change. You're not allowed to take 161 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: somebody else's toy without asking, so we're actually not going 162 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: to permit that to happen. And acceptance. I will also 163 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: accept how that young child feels in that moment. And 164 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: if I validated your son or you validated your son, 165 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: who said, I know you're really angry. I know you 166 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: really wanted to play with the toy, and it makes 167 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: sense to me that maybe, um, you got really upset 168 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: by this. Hopefully your son would become more regulated, will 169 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: feel heard, and then himself recognized maybe I shouldn't have 170 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: taken that toy. I really reflected on the idea that 171 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: his behavior on getting that toy wasn't super effective, and 172 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: he's more likely in the future to do something differently. 173 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: It could be a really validation could be a really 174 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: helpful tool in bringing people down and helping them feel 175 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 1: more regulated, more heard, so they can now process new 176 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: information and make more effective decisions in lies. And by 177 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: the way, you can use this with your kids, you 178 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: can use this with partners, you can use it with anybody. Um, 179 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: validation is an amazing tool. Now. The trick here, though, Katie, 180 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: is sometimes you don't always agree, and that's okay. You 181 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 1: don't need to agree with somebody to validate them as 182 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 1: long as you can hear them. You wouldn't want to 183 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: validate the invalid which is a whole another path that 184 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: you have to be careful about. What does that mean? 185 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: So if somebody is stating something that is false or inaccurate. 186 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: You wouldn't want to validate that because that would reinforce 187 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: an inaccurate version of what is likely to happen. So 188 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: sometimes people will come to anything, Zach, I'm really scared 189 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: to fly because the plane is going to crash. Would 190 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: never validate that the plane is going to crash because 191 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: it would be really unlikely that it's going to crash. 192 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: But I could validate that it's really really difficult to 193 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: get into a plane, yeah, and get shot into the 194 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: atmosphere if you don't know anything about jet propulsion and 195 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: you haven't done in a long time, uh, and you 196 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: have a history of anxiety. Of course, you validate, validate, validate, 197 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: and hopefully that individual will feel a little bit more 198 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: comfortable with the idea of getting plant and then can 199 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: use skills to effectively cope while they're in the plane. 200 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: Invalidation is something that inevitably we all do, and it's 201 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: communiqu geating too. In this case, our children that their thoughts, 202 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: their emotions, and their behaviors are wrong for a situation, 203 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: all right, And so if you're constantly telling in a child, 204 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: you know you shouldn't think that way. You know that 205 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: that's not the way to think about it. That's wrong 206 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: to think about it that way, or don't feel that way. 207 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: You should change how you feel. That's not helpful. If 208 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: you continue to um kind of bombard them with that 209 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: invalidation or the communication that what they're thinking or feeling 210 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: is wrong, that can actually dramatically impact how they understand 211 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: and see the world because they're constantly then questioning how 212 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: they're feeling and how they're thinking. But here's the other 213 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: key piece. They know how they feel. So if they 214 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: feel guilty and people tell them repeatedly, don't feel guilty, 215 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: don't feel guilty, don't feel guilty, don't feel guilty, well 216 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: they know that they feel guilty. So not only are 217 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: they going to struggle with understanding their own emotions and 218 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: why they're feeling this way, but they're gonna stop trusting 219 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: other folks and why other folks are communicating this to me? 220 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: Because I know I feel guilty. So, Katie, why are 221 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: you telling me to stop feeling this way? It's feeling 222 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: this way because this is how I feel. Yeah, I'm 223 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: very careful, you know with boys, and you know they 224 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: say if somebody is really sad, you know and and 225 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: saying it's okay, it's okay, you're okay, you're okay, just 226 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: stop that this. We're not crying right now like any 227 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: of that stuff. It's like, no, like if your kids 228 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: upset or sad about something, you know, you're like, I 229 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: hear that you're really sad, and I'm that's let's just 230 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: be sad for a little bit. I'll say here, I'll 231 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: be sad with you for a while. Let's be sad 232 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: until we're not sad anymore, you know, absolutely, And again 233 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 1: just to kind of emphasize this, when you tell that 234 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: child not to be sad, you're telling them what they're 235 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: feeling is wrong, even though they're feeling that way right. 236 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 1: So they lose that trust in themselves that I know 237 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: what I'm feeling is accurate. But they also lose trust 238 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: in what other people are saying to them because they 239 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: also know that they really feel sad and nobody's listening. 240 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: So it really if it's if it's done chronically and severely, 241 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 1: it can really lead to some negative outcomes in sense 242 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: of self self esteem and other areas. M I always 243 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: equated to and tell me, like, you know how you 244 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: yawn and someone else yawns. So if my son, for 245 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: all of you listening, we have a lot of listeners 246 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: who have toddlers and young children, and if my kid 247 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: is having a freak out about something, validation always helps 248 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 1: me at least try to be calm and then like 249 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: a yawn. I hope that at some point he is 250 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: better matching my calmness and regulated validation than if I 251 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: were to also start yelling, which, by the way, I 252 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: am fucking guilty of as well. I think sometimes it's 253 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: so hard that I have a parenting podcast because I 254 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: know what I'm supposed to be doing, but that doesn't 255 00:13:55,200 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: mean that I'm always working at that vibration. It's hard. 256 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: It's hard. Sometimes you just really want to yell, and 257 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: then they yell too. It's like I'm trying though. Um Okay, 258 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: we did through a step by step breakdown. I think 259 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: we should do this again because you're talking about dialectics, 260 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: but let's talk about the body language. So the first 261 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: things you could do if you were validating someone's tantrum, 262 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: I see that you're upset, I hear that you're upset, 263 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: something like that, immediately you're trying to It almost feels 264 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: like from an acting standpoint like empathy, right, like put 265 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: yourself in someone else's shoes. What is the body language 266 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: for validation? Look like yeah, so, I mean the first 267 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: step really is non verbal, and you want to kind 268 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: of walk over to them, sit down, You could rub 269 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: their back, took their heads, get down to where they 270 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: are and make that eye contact, show them that you're 271 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: really listening and look at similar to you. I understand 272 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: in this moment, we really need to get to sarcer practice. 273 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: We're late for the birthday party, we really need to 274 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: get to the airport, and you do not want to 275 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: get in your fucking car seat class absolutely not, absolutely not, 276 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: and this is likely going to be in One of 277 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: the most effective ways to actually get them moving quickly 278 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: is to actually sit down, get with them, get to 279 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: their eye level, really show them that you're listening. Can 280 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: be a super effective way of starting validation and validating 281 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: in itself. The next piece you're gonna want to do 282 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: is what we would call kind of reflection or accurate reflection. 283 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: You're gonna want to ask them what's going on. I 284 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: know you don't want to get into your car seat 285 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: because it's uncomfortable. If you got it right on the 286 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: first job on the first shot. That's great. They're gonna 287 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: not They're gonna say yes, if you got it wrong, 288 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: it's okay because you can then ask them, oh, why 289 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: don't you want to get in your car seat? Because 290 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: it's too hot in the car. Okay, so let's see 291 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: what we can do to fix that. In that moment, 292 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: reflecting back to them, I know it's not always comfortable 293 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: in the car because it gets hot. I get that, 294 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: And let's talk about some ways to maybe make the 295 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: car a little bit cooler for you during the right there. Yeah, see, 296 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: my son doesn't get in the car seat. I could 297 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: be completely wrong, but I'm pretty sure my son doesn't 298 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: like anything where he's not in the position of power 299 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: or autonomy. Right, So, like he doesn't want to get 300 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: in a car seat, he doesn't want to get dressed. Um, 301 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: which is like classic four year old ship show. I 302 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: mean we've gotten I don't take him to school in 303 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: his clothes ever, I drop him off in pajamas. There's 304 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: a stack of guys listening. This is like I have 305 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: I can't believe the mother I am. I can't believe it. 306 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: But in the in the in the battles, I can't. 307 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: I can't. I can't do it in the morning. I've 308 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: realized that I am not operating at a high vibrational 309 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: place where I can do validation and all this ship 310 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: when I just need him to get dressed and get 311 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: out the door. So his preschool was like, forget it, 312 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: bring him in his pajamas will change him. At some point, 313 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: He's not going to wear his pajamas to school when 314 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: he's a teenager because he's going to care what people think. 315 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: Maybe absolute I mean, and what you're talking about, Katie, 316 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: is a beautiful skill of picking your battles. So my 317 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: five year old, I almost said, four you because it 318 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: just his birthday, just had his birthday, Happy birthday, Yeah, 319 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: thank you. He he's just started to refuse to wear shorts. 320 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: So in New York right now it's about ninety degrees 321 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: and he's just wearing jeans right now. It's so hot. 322 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: But you know what, it's absolutely I'm just not going 323 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: to pick that battle, because you're absolutely right. He will 324 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: eventually transition to shorts. He will get hot, he will 325 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: get uncomfortable, and he'll do it in that moment. I'm 326 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: just not going to pick that battle, which is a 327 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: really important parenting strategy to to think about, because sometimes 328 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: they really do need that control in that autonomy, and 329 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: that's important. And as long as you're okay with pajamas 330 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: at pre school and I'm okay with jeans in the summer, 331 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: which I would never do, then we're good. Just let 332 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: you know, we're just gonna let it go. And I 333 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: had to really look at why I was upset about 334 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: the pajamas to school, and it really was about my grandmother, 335 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: like like literally, like if I really looked at it, 336 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: I was like, why is this such a sticking point 337 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: that he has to wear clothes to school? And it's 338 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: because I hear are wonderful nanny who's very traditional and 339 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: cares a lot about like appearances, and my grandmother the same. 340 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: And I was like wow, Like I felt like inside 341 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: like I was failing that I was going to show 342 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: up with my kid in school. He's in his Christmas 343 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: pajamas today with light bulbs all over it from a 344 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: Christmas tree, and I literally look at us, like, but 345 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: he's happy. He's happier than on the mornings where I 346 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: forced him to get dressed. And it gets like physical 347 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: and awful and just emotional and it's a fucking nightmare. 348 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: This has been so much better. What is emotional disregulation 349 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: versus regulation? Yeah, so a lot of times we're going 350 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: to see our our younger folks, right are toddler's latecy 351 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: age kids, and obviously teenagers and adults as well, in 352 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: kind of a state of disregulation, meaning that their mood, 353 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: their emotions, maybe their thoughts, maybe their behaviors or what 354 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: we would consider out of control in a way that's 355 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: not effective, not helpful, and like like likely for for parents, 356 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: pissing us off, right, And so we're going to see 357 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: that and in that moment we can kind of reflect it. 358 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: They are not in control in this moment. And you 359 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: want to actually think about two different types of disregulation, 360 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: because we see this, but we don't always recognize the 361 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: second type. The first type is underregulated. So these are 362 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: individuals that are having that tantrum. We all know what 363 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: a tantrum looks like. I know what a tantrum looks 364 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: like with all three of my boys. But another type 365 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: of disregulation is what we would call overregulation, and these 366 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: are individuals that are so regulated that they're not even 367 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: allowing themselves to feel anything. So I want you to 368 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: think about. And it's hard to see in a toddler, 369 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: but it might be easier for for us to think 370 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: about with maybe some unfortunately some of our our friends 371 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: or FAMI the members who have been really really depressed 372 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: and can't get out of the bed and sort of 373 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 1: pull the covers over your head. Or what you can 374 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: see is you see toddlers who are severely, severely anxious. 375 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: They're overly regulated. So they're not moving there, not sort 376 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: of um putting their emotions out there. They're controlling everything 377 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: to the best of their ability, whether that's controlling what 378 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: they're eating, controlling how much they're speaking, controlling whether they're 379 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: going to the bathroom. Oh yeah, I've heard about that. 380 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: Oh my god. So these are individuals who are so 381 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: out of control that they become overregulated in a way. 382 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: And we miss those kids sometimes because sometimes those kids 383 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: are actually performing well on a superficial level. It's like 384 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: they're doing all the rules, they're doing what they're supposed 385 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: to be doing, so no one looks or even thinks 386 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: to look that something could be wrong. Wow, that's really interesting. Yeah, 387 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: So you want to be mindful for that and kids 388 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: that kind of meet that level and you can tell 389 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: they're just really really anxious or they're really just trying 390 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: to hold it together, and that's how they is that 391 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: and then what's under that's overregulated? What's underregulated? Okay, screaming, yelling, throwing, kicking, okay, 392 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: and so then any so your goal is once we've 393 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: crossed into that, the most important thing is getting them 394 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: to a regulated level. Like that's your job as a parent. 395 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: And I tried to express this expresses to my husband 396 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: all the time. He had to learn that when you 397 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: are not regulated, you are either overregulated or underregulated. Is 398 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: not the time for a teaching moment. No, no, Katie, 399 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: you're you're absolutely right. Um. Although you know, I don't 400 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: blame or judge your husband because I think we in 401 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: those moments, we're also frustrated. We just want to say, hey, kid, 402 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: you see that wasn't working for you right exactly. That's 403 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: when my husband's like, what, like now is the time 404 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: to have like a twenty minute conversation about like why 405 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: you can't have this at that point, and I'm like, 406 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: he is not hearing you. He's out of his fucking 407 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: mind right now. He's literally a sociopath. Absolutely, at that moment, 408 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: they're so disregulated. And I want us as adults to 409 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: think about that time when we were waiting for a 410 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: plane and it got canceled, and in the moment right away, 411 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: we're disregulated. We can't even think about what is the 412 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: next step that I need to take to solve this 413 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: problem that my plane was just canceled. I'm so disregulated, 414 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,360 Speaker 1: I'm so upset, i can't even think. And that's why 415 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: if you use validation to help your child get to 416 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: a regulated state, they may be able to either accept 417 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: the help that you're offering or that you could offer 418 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: to solve the problem, or again, more importantly, they could 419 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: come up with a solution learned that this is a 420 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: more effective way to deal with the difficult situation. How 421 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: the hell are parents supposed to know not only timing 422 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: of it. You know, if your child is in a 423 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: disregulated moment, it might be a time to use validation 424 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: as a tool to get them to a regulated spot. 425 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: But how do you know that it's a good time 426 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: to bevalidating versus when is it a time to be 427 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: stern or fix a situation? Yeah, so I would come 428 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: back to the idea of dialectics where I'm going to 429 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 1: try to do both at the same time. And you 430 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: know this also bleeds a little bit into what you're 431 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: talking about about modeling. Whenever I'm trying to set a 432 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: limit with my boys, I am trying to do it 433 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: from a calm perspective, from a perspective that that shows 434 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: them that I am in control of my emotions. I 435 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: know what I'm feeling. And at the same time, what 436 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: you did broke a rule in the home, so there 437 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: needs to be consequences. Just to be clear, I don't 438 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: do that. I try to do that, and I tell 439 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: people I do that. Damn that's good though, Like up, 440 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: you broke a rule in the house, and so unfortunately 441 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: there's going to have to be consequences. Well and then 442 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: and we're gonna jump in about it and coming back 443 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: just coming back to this kid, because I want to 444 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: really own this. My wife says to me all the time, 445 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 1: but you're an expert in this, aren't you. How come 446 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: you're not doing what you tell people to do all 447 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: the time? Right? So I get that all the time 448 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: at home. At the same time, I strive to be 449 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: able to validate at the same time saying I know 450 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: this is difficult, I know this is not going to 451 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: be fun. And at the same time, I need you 452 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: go into time out for hitting the broad right, that's 453 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: what that's what we're gonna do. They go into time out, 454 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: they get disregulated, they get upset. At the end of 455 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: time out, I walk up to them. I validate their emotions. 456 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: I get why you're upset. I totally do. And you know, 457 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: I think what what sometimes I hear in our society 458 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 1: is we're being too soft on our kids. We're being 459 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: too you know, we're being too easy on them. And 460 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: maybe they're right, maybe they're not. I personally think, as 461 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: um somebody who does a lot of behavioral parent training, 462 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 1: what I'm doing in that moment is trying to help 463 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,239 Speaker 1: my child get more regulated so they can learn how 464 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: to be more effective. And at that age it's really 465 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: really great. They can learn a lot on how to 466 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: be um you, how to be more skillful in the future, 467 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: and it's such a it's such a crucial time to 468 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: be able to teach them how to deal with that. 469 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: So as much as I can and try to validate 470 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 1: to get them in a regulated place so they can 471 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: learn from it. This is making me feel much better 472 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: because you're a professional and now I'm going to tell 473 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: people that. But I do feel guilt about not being 474 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: stern enough, especially around older generations, like on family vacations 475 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: with my parents or my grandmother or you know, I 476 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: have a very um extroverted son who you know people, 477 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: I hear people say like, oh, you're gonna have to 478 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: look out for that one, or you think he's hard 479 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 1: now like or or or you're gonna have to show 480 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: you This one's classic, Like you're gonna have to show 481 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: him whose boss now because later, you know, things like 482 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: that um always perk up my ear a lot, and 483 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: I worry that. Yeah, I think the older generation was like, 484 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: throw him in his fucking room, lock the fucking door, 485 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: let him scream and cry. He just hit his sister, 486 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: Like that's unacceptable. Where I'm trying to do more of 487 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: what I learned here from experts, and I'm praying that 488 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: y'all are right that that I say, Oh, okay, you 489 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: know what, you touched your sister's body in a way 490 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: that's unacceptable. It's not how we treat people. And now 491 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: me and you're SI or we're going to go play 492 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: over here because we don't want to be or whatever 493 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: I do you know, like you're going to have to 494 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: have a time out and sit in your room and 495 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: think about it. And you can be upset. You're allowed 496 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: to be upset, but we're not going to treat people 497 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: like that. I don't allow. And then I come back 498 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: and then we repair them rupture a few minutes later, 499 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: and he says he's sorry, and I say, I appreciate 500 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: that you're sorry, and but it still doesn't make it 501 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: right that you hit her. We can't. I don't hit 502 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 1: people's bodies. You don't hit people's bodies. But I do 503 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: this over over and over again, and I pray that 504 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: he will just be a good person. Yeah, yeah, I 505 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: think you know. I think what you brought up is 506 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: really important that we as parents. It's really hard to 507 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 1: navigate our family relationships while we're parenting at the same time, 508 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: whether it's on trips or or folks are coming to 509 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: visit us or whatever we're doing. And you're just going 510 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: to try to do the best you can buy, really 511 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: using these skills and strategies and recognize that they weren't 512 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: necessarily developed or talked about or utilized in our generation. 513 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 1: And and that's okay. I'll still do something a little 514 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: bit differently with my kids. And as long as you're 515 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: finding that balance of making sure that you are doing 516 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: some limit setting, because there needs to be some limit setting, 517 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 1: and you're also having some acceptance of this is the situation, 518 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: this is my child, this is their strength, and these 519 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: are their areas of growth, then I think you're doing 520 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: You're doing the right thing here. And it's stressful. We 521 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: just acknowledge that, Oh my god, is it stressful? Um 522 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,719 Speaker 1: this book you mentioned a lot which I think is 523 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: a book. It's called The Rabbit Listened. It's the fucking 524 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: best for adults and kids alike. Can you tell us 525 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: what happens in this book and why it's so important? 526 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: Everyone who is listening, who is pregnant, has a small baby, 527 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: has an older baby, has a team. I don't care 528 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: get this book if you don't have The Rabbit listen 529 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: to get it. I love this book. I think it 530 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: does such a nice job of describing validation and one 531 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: of the major pitfalls we as parents um succumbed to 532 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: um with being in validating. But but really, in this book, 533 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: there is this child, uh, and this child has you know, 534 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: I won't give the whole premise away but this child 535 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: has something bad that happens to them, and so different 536 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,239 Speaker 1: animals come in and try to fix it. And we 537 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: as parents do that too often. Too often, when a 538 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: child is hurt, child is upset about something that happened, 539 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: we come in and we say things like, oh, it's okay, 540 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: it'll be better tomorrow, or don't worry about that. I 541 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: have a solution, or here another favorite one in our country. 542 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: Here have a cookie that will make you feel better. Right, 543 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 1: that's all actually invalidating. And I know a lot of 544 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: parents in the call and they say, WHOA, I'm trying 545 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: to help them. You're telling me that that's invalidating. It 546 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: is because in that emoment, in that moment, your child 547 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: is feeling a specific emotion. It's really important for us 548 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: to allow your child to sit in that emotion and 549 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: for you to sit with that emotion with your child 550 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,959 Speaker 1: as well, and allowing that to happen can help your 551 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: child deal with that emotion, feel it and allow it 552 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: to receive like a wave, because emotions hit us like 553 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: waves hit us hard, and then they eventually go away, right, 554 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: And it allows them to grow and to then change themselves. 555 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: And so what you see in this book is a 556 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: lot of different animals come in and try to fix 557 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: the problem. Young child is not getting what they need 558 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: until one animal comes in and just listens. And I 559 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: also want to be really clear, Katie, it is hard 560 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: to just listen to your child and the negative emotions 561 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: that they're feeling. Right. We had a first incident of 562 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: being bullied at five years old. It was one of 563 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: the most difficult things I had to listen to. Right here, 564 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: my child talk about being bullied at school. And all 565 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: I want to do was fix it, right. All I wanted, 566 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: it'll be better when you get when you get this age, 567 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: and I'll call it the principle, and I'll call it 568 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: the parent and this, And all I needed to do 569 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: in that moment was just sit in that emotion myself, 570 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: which was really difficult. And by the way, we have 571 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: a technical term for this. It's called sitting in the 572 00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: ships because it sucks so much. It sucks so much. 573 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: But instead of trying to pull your child out of 574 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: the ship, tell them how to get out of the ship, 575 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: just go in and sit with them, Just sit with 576 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,479 Speaker 1: that and allow them to feel it, to learn how 577 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: to cope with it, and then they will get up 578 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: and out themselves. And this book does an excellent job 579 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: describing that. And then also our goal in this in 580 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: sitting and ship versus being like the other animals in 581 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: the book where you're the other animals in the book 582 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: are all coming in like you so eloquently said it, 583 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: just they're they're using different tactics of how they're going 584 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: to fix it for the kid. But is the goal 585 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: of just sitting in the ship and listening and maybe 586 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: sitting at the same level as your child having body 587 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: language that's open. Uh? Is the goal for them two 588 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: learn themselves how to fix it for themselves because we're 589 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: not always going to be there to fix it anyway. Um, 590 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: But is the goal? The goal is for them to 591 00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: learn validation for themselves, like to self validate absolute. I mean, 592 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: the goal I think includes um includes many aspects. One 593 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: goal is for them to just feel the emotion and 594 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: sit in it, so we don't try to change the emotions. 595 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: So then there right right exactly, So they can't tolerate 596 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: right and so you know the movie inside out right, 597 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: they can't tolerate sadness, cannot tolerate sadness. So we need 598 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: to help our children learn how to tolerate sadness, because unfortunately, 599 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: sadness is a part of life. Guilt is a big one, 600 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: shame is a big one. We need our children to 601 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: be able to sit in those emotions and feel them. 602 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: I don't want them to wallow in them for weeks 603 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: and weeks and weeks, but feeling that emotion and learning 604 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: how to tolerate it and learning how to get out 605 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: of it is so important. And if you can model 606 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: that and help guide that, then absolutely the goal is 607 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: that they'll acquire that skill and then be able to 608 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: generalize in other situations when we're not around, because we 609 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: will not always be around to be able to do that. 610 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: Are there any activities that help kids develop internal validation 611 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: besides you modeling it. Yeah, there's not a lot of 612 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: activities that I necessarily can think of off the top 613 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: of my head. I mean, I think that this really 614 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: is about awareness and mindfulness, which also is kind of 615 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: a piece that's a huge component of dialectical behavior therapy 616 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: or DBT. And they're not doing DBT with toddlers or 617 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: anything like that, but it's certainly um a therapeutic set 618 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: of skills that I've I've utilized when I'm doing behavioral 619 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: parent training. It really is about awareness of how you're feeling. 620 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: I think that's a big piece because you need to 621 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: be able to understand what emotion I have. So I 622 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: think it's important to and again coming back to the 623 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: movie Inside Out, they do a great job of sort 624 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: of taking away the stigma of difficult emotions and whether 625 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: you're watching Inside Out or making sure you're reading books 626 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: about different emotions or you know, with my seven year 627 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: old in my five year old, we're gonna start reading 628 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: Harry Potter this summer, right, so I'll hopefully be able 629 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: to ask them questions. It's not gonna be every page, 630 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: what emotion is ron feeling? What emotions? But it's really helpful. Yeah. Sure, 631 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: having that open conversation with or watching films or watching 632 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: reading books and doing different activities with them help them 633 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: kind of engage in the understanding of these are emotions 634 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: and these how these are how emotions in these fields. 635 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: You know, my husband and I were such actors and 636 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: we've been in therapy for like twenty years and we 637 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: just love it just because I whether or not I'm 638 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: having good weeks bad weeks, are actually struggling, struggling with 639 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: things I've been diagnosed with or whatever. For me, it 640 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: just makes me a much better mother, daughter, wife, because 641 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: I have somebody else listening to my stuff. UM. When 642 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: is it time for a child to have therapy or 643 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: should I don't know. So it's that's a tougher question 644 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: to answer because it can be so individualized. And at 645 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: the same time, if you're concerned about about emotions or 646 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: behaviors or even thinking patterns and styles, if you're concerned 647 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: that any of those three areas are impacting one of 648 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,720 Speaker 1: the areas of life for for a very young child, 649 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: friendship UM, academics, ability to engage in social activities, umby 650 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: ability to connect with other folks, UM, sort of all 651 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: the different facets within young children. That's probably the time 652 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 1: to seek UM some advice on yeah, if we if 653 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: we want help. You know the really nice thing about 654 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: many childhood psychiatric issues, if we intervene early, the outcomes 655 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: are tremendously positive for many of them, UM. And at 656 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: the same time, we're not always great at catching them. 657 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,399 Speaker 1: You know one thing that that we hear a lot 658 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: about that's that's always really sad for me is children 659 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: with selective mutism. Right, So, there's some children who don't 660 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: speak in different areas. Maybe it's at school, Uh, maybe 661 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: it's with specific family members, but it's certain settings they 662 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: just don't speak. And what you'll hear sometimes from healthcare professionals, 663 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 1: whether it's you know, an m D or maybe even 664 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: a therapist, is or don't worry, they'll grow out of this. 665 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: But this is actually a pretty severe and significant issue 666 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: that needs to be addressed with a specific type of 667 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,439 Speaker 1: therapy um and and needs to be addressed as quickly 668 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: as possible. And when addressed, the outcomes are really tremendously positive. 669 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: But sometimes we don't always recognize these things. Wow. I 670 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: would go so far as to say too for anyone listening, Like, 671 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: I just feel like if you instinctually feel like something 672 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: is off in any area, I'm like the first person 673 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: to go running to, like anyone who's a professional, do 674 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,280 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? It's like I'm just like, well, 675 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: let's just at least go and ask, you know, like 676 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: poke around a little bit, um, how would you know 677 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: that somebody was a fit? Yeah, So I'm I will 678 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: say I'm biased in this and that I'm more of 679 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: a fan of especially with children during adolescents, even our 680 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: our young adults who seem to be struggling more and 681 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: more these days, UM with evidence based interventions and really 682 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: thinking about different psychiatric treatments that are supported by research, 683 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: and so I think that's kind of the first step. 684 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: There's a really good website that that I really often 685 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: guide individuals too, and it's just called Effective Child Therapy 686 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: dot org UM. It's through the Society of Clinical Child 687 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: and Adolysts and Psychology. It's related to UM Association for 688 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: Behavior and Cognitive Therapies. But there you can look up 689 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: some of the symptoms that your young child is struggling 690 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: with and find the recommended treatments, and from there you 691 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,240 Speaker 1: can even look up different therapists that are offering those 692 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: treatments and really finding a therapist that not only is 693 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: trained in evidence based practices, but who's also collaborative. You know, 694 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 1: if you have a therapist that's meeting with your child 695 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: and not giving you updates on how things are going, 696 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: maybe not weakly right, but you're hearing and you know 697 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,879 Speaker 1: what the treatment plan is and the goals, and they're 698 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: and they're giving you feedback. That's important for for child 699 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: and really for adolescent therapy as well. There might be 700 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 1: cases where really we want the adolescent to have that autonomy, 701 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: but that's being explained to you why and what's going on. 702 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: But for the most part, you're gonna want a therapist 703 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: that's collaborative and speaking with you and giving you feedback 704 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 1: and giving you some guidance. And the other piece that 705 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: that I think we really struggle with, as I know 706 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: I struggle with as a provider and as a parent, 707 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: is often child interventions include the parents, which means not 708 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: only you know, there could be up to two sessions 709 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: a week where the child is going in once and 710 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: you're going in with your partner or on your own 711 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,479 Speaker 1: ones as well. Um, And that's a lot of work, 712 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,720 Speaker 1: and at the same time the can be tremendously helpful 713 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: and with a lot of positive outcomes if you're with 714 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: the right provider and in the right treatment. Again, I 715 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: know that this is for kids, but it's like if 716 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 1: we get back to basics of like body language, taking 717 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: a breath, getting down on our kids level, making the 718 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: space to just listen, and then using your fancy dialectic 719 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: I think was the word um, but words that are 720 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,919 Speaker 1: not trying to change the emotion or change the experience, 721 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: but sitting the experience and essentially respect that they're in 722 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,919 Speaker 1: it and that they're going through it. Like I hear 723 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: that it is really hard. Oh my gosh, speaking about 724 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: two things at once. My son was saying the other day, 725 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: I got oh, he kicked me in the eyeball, so 726 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: that's fun. He was so pissed that I was face 727 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: he My son's behavior goes from shipped to shittier whenever 728 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: I'm on the phone or on FaceTime, right because it's 729 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: it's I'm not paying attention to him. Even though to 730 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: be fair, he's very good at independent play and he's 731 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: very good at those things. It's just for some reason, 732 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,399 Speaker 1: like when I'm face timing with my mother and he 733 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: wants my attention, ship gets real crappy quick. So he 734 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: hit the phone out of my hand, and I was like, uh, 735 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: you know, I really didn't like that. This is an 736 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: expensive piece of something that I need for work, and 737 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and then he tried to kick it 738 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: out of my hand but missed and kicked me in 739 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 1: the eyeball. So I said, oh, Mom, I'm gonna have 740 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: to go. I'm I'm really angry, right, now, and I 741 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: tried to keep myself very regulated. I turned off the 742 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: phone and I said, um, that was unacceptable. You hurt 743 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,760 Speaker 1: my face, you hurt my eye. I could have gotten 744 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: really hurt. And I'm so upset right now that I 745 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: actually I can't, I can't be with you right now. 746 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,439 Speaker 1: I'm going to go to my own room and sit 747 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: because I'm I don't want to be really, really really angry. 748 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: I'm so angry and my eyeball hurts. So I excused 749 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: myself because I was like so fucking pissed. And then 750 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: he's like screaming and he only wants me, and he's 751 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,319 Speaker 1: so sorry, he's so sorry, so sorry, and I'm like, 752 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 1: I'm I'm really appreciate that you're sorry and you feel 753 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 1: bad about what you've done, it's still I'm still mad. 754 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: For example, both things are true, like you are sorry, 755 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: I accept your apology. I'm still angry. I'm not ready 756 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: to let this go. But he also said, after we 757 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: kind of got through it a few days later, he 758 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,959 Speaker 1: was like, when you were really angry, you didn't love 759 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: me then, And I said, oh, that's actually not true, buddy, 760 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: I said, I can I can be angry at you. 761 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: I can be sad with you, I can be disappointed, 762 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 1: I can feel all those things, and I can still 763 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: love you at the same time. In fact, that's like 764 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 1: how I feel about you all the time, Like I 765 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: love you all the time even if I'm angry or 766 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: piste off or cranky or whatever. But two things being 767 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: true at one time, I feel like is parenting? Yeah, well, 768 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:56,319 Speaker 1: I think I think from my reflection on the story 769 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: that you told, I love that you took space and 770 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: in some ways that's why we do time outs right. 771 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 1: And by the way, I am an advocate for time out. 772 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: I think time out is gonna be really really helpful. 773 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: Using the time out in that moment was is, in 774 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: my opinion, the right thing to do. And this is 775 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: how you use it dialectically, right, So the dialectics that 776 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: I'm talking about is acceptance and empathy plus change. So 777 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: the time out is the change. So getting off the 778 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: phone with your mother expressing how you feel in that moment, 779 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: putting him in time out, are you taking time out 780 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: and then taking some time and then coming back to 781 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 1: that situation and explaining why it was so hurtful, why 782 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: it bothered you, And at the same time you know 783 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: that sometimes it's really hard for him when you're on 784 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:46,839 Speaker 1: the phone in finishing up parenthood is it's really challenging, 785 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 1: and it is also something that everybody can be successful 786 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:56,400 Speaker 1: at when getting the right support. Yeah, that's so true, 787 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 1: and I really hope that this podcast provides a little 788 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 1: bit of that. Obviously, all of the clients of zach 789 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: Ka Blumkin are definitely getting that. I'm so appreciative of 790 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: you taking the time. I know you're very busy saving 791 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:14,640 Speaker 1: lives and children and parents mental health. It's very, very, 792 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 1: very important, and I'm so appreciative of you taking the 793 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: time to me on Katie's Crib. Thanks for having me. 794 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode. 795 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 1: I want to hear from you. Let's chat questions, comments, concerns. 796 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 1: Let me know. You can always find me at Katie's 797 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: Crib at Shanda land dot com. Katie's Crib is a 798 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,760 Speaker 1: production of Shonda Land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. 799 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Shannalan Audio, visit the I Heart 800 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 801 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: favorite shows.