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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and Rupert Murdoch is stepping down as

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Speaker 1: chairman of Fox and News Corp. We'll see how long

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Speaker 1: that lasts. Because we've seen the show, we've seen succession,

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Speaker 1: we know how this goes. We have a fantastic show

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Speaker 1: for you today. Michael Wolfe joins us to talk about

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Speaker 1: his new book, The Fall, The End of Fox News

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Speaker 1: and the Murdoch Dynasty. Then we'll talk to polster Ben

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Speaker 1: Tulchin about how Biden can adopt a populist message to

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Speaker 1: do better with the voters he struggles with. But first

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Speaker 1: we have Squawkbox contributor and host of on the tape,

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Speaker 1: my friend and yours, Dan Nathan. Welcome back, my friend

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Speaker 1: Dan Nathan to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 2: Molly. It's great to be back with you.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the economy, the Goldilocks economy. So is

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Speaker 1: the economy good or bad?

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Speaker 2: Well, it depends in which line you're looking through, right, So,

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Speaker 2: if you have a job and you benefited from basically

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Speaker 2: wage growth that we've seen over the last few years,

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Speaker 2: I think it's been pretty good, right. But the flip

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Speaker 2: side of that is, like, you know, inflationary pressures have

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Speaker 2: been around now for a couple of years, and you

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Speaker 2: know that is the very thing that US Federal Reserve

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Speaker 2: is trying to combat. It's also one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: why the Biden administration named their fiscal spending policy last

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Speaker 2: year the Inflation Reduction Act. I think you and I

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Speaker 2: have spent some time talking about that. I'm not really

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Speaker 2: sure that that kind of battles high inflation. If anything,

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Speaker 2: that could be inflationary, and it could be the very

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Speaker 2: situation that we're in right now. You know, you'll hear

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Speaker 2: that term goldilocks a bunch. What does it mean. It

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Speaker 2: means that, you know, we have, you know, seventy year

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Speaker 2: low unemployment, we have wage growth that we haven't seen

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Speaker 2: in a long time, but we also have a whole

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Speaker 2: host of other costs for lots of consumers that maybe

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Speaker 2: wages are not keeping up with. Right So, to answer

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Speaker 2: the question, it's not a great economy for kind of

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Speaker 2: lower end wage earners right now, despite the benefits that

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Speaker 2: they've had of late. Okay, but on the higher end,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it seems like in every which way, you know,

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Speaker 2: the higher end consumer is doing just fine. So some

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Speaker 2: of the stuff that we track fairly closely is the

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Speaker 2: savings rate that was really high, you know coming out

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Speaker 2: of the pandemic is being drawn down. Consumer credit is

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Speaker 2: really high at a time, and this brings us back

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Speaker 2: to inflation, where the US Federal Reserve has raised interest

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Speaker 2: rates basically from a zero interest rate bound during the

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Speaker 2: pandemic to about five and a half percent. We have

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Speaker 2: not seen interest rates this high in a very very

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Speaker 2: long time. So if you are a consumer and you

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Speaker 2: are living paycheck to paycheck, okay, and you are buying

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Speaker 2: a lot of stuff on credit and these are floating rates,

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Speaker 2: they are astronomically high right now. And so you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a whole host of things that I think as

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Speaker 2: we settle into and the Federal Reserve set it to

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Speaker 2: us this week, that rates are going to be higher

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Speaker 2: for longer. I think the lag effects of that tighter

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Speaker 2: monetary policy are going to first hit lower end consumers

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Speaker 2: and then it's going to work its way into the

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Speaker 2: middle and higher you know, kind of bounds in the

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Speaker 2: consumer landscape. And so to me, I think that is

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Speaker 2: a story for twenty twenty four and through the lens

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Speaker 2: that you look at all this, Molly. It's not, in

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Speaker 2: my opinion, a great setup if you are the incumbent president,

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, because sooner or later, the economy is

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Speaker 2: going to slow and we're going to be in a recession.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I'm sure the Biden administration is hoping

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Speaker 2: it comes after the election, but at some point, I

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Speaker 2: think the market is a discounting mechanism. It will sniff

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Speaker 2: it out if the economy is going to weaken.

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Speaker 1: So you think we're heading for a recession. It's just

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Speaker 1: a question of when. But I don't understand because of

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Speaker 1: the higher interest rates. Sooner or later, though the Fed

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Speaker 1: did just not raise interest rates yesterday.

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Speaker 2: They did and so one of the big issues is

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Speaker 2: that this lag effect of monetary policy, right, and so

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Speaker 2: they acknowledged that. Economists acknowledge that, and so here we are.

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Speaker 2: They started raising interest rates in March of twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: so we're about eighteen months. And normally when you have

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Speaker 2: that sort of tightening a monetary policy, you will see

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Speaker 2: the economy start to weaken. That was the goal of

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Speaker 2: raising interest rates to cool off the economy. If the

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Speaker 2: economy continue to go and gangbusters pace because of all

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Speaker 2: the fiscal and monetary stimulus, we're ultimately going to have

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Speaker 2: a bubble inflate and then crash. And you don't have

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Speaker 2: to go too far back to remember the global financial

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Speaker 2: crisis where interest rates were kept too low for too

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Speaker 2: long to combat what we had as a recession post

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Speaker 2: of the dot com bubble, right, And so in each

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Speaker 2: of those instances, they were followed by market crashes where

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Speaker 2: the S and P five hundred, the major US equity market,

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Speaker 2: was cut in half. Okay, and then we also had recessions.

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Speaker 2: And so I think the FED fear is that, and

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Speaker 2: you hear all this talk about a soft landing or

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Speaker 2: a no landing. A hard landing would be a very

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Speaker 2: bad recession. I think the FED is trying to wrap

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Speaker 2: kind of wrap their arms around how do we get

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Speaker 2: to a soft landing where the tighter monetary policy kind

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Speaker 2: of slows the economy, doesn't break the economy and push

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Speaker 2: us into a hard recession.

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Speaker 1: I want to go further on this monetary policy idea

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Speaker 1: because there are people who blame Biden, And if you

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Speaker 1: blame Biden for this, you also have to blame Trump

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Speaker 1: for this, because this is something Trump did too, that

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Speaker 1: we have had years and years and years of like

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Speaker 1: printing money, of pushing money into the economy, a very

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Speaker 1: cheap money, of this modern monetary theory which says, just

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Speaker 1: go for it, Nothing's going to happen. So how much

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Speaker 1: of this is a blowback from that?

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Speaker 2: I will say this that President Trump brought in the

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Speaker 2: current FED Chair, Jerome Powell, Okay, to be his pick.

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Speaker 2: And this was in back in twenty and seventeen. And

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Speaker 2: FED Chair pal started out by raising interest rates in

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Speaker 2: twenty and eighteen, and you know, he was trying to

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Speaker 2: normalize interest rate policy after years and years of easy

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Speaker 2: monetary policy that came with the financial crisis. Right. So

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Speaker 2: here drum pale is under President Biden, and you know,

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Speaker 2: interest rates have gone up faster than they have on

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Speaker 2: any administration in decades. Okay, So now all of a

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Speaker 2: sudden you have this situation. Though I think the Biden

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Speaker 2: administration is probably correct to identify the fact that if

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Speaker 2: they were to kind of support a pullback in rates,

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Speaker 2: that inflation could be a worse enemy than high interest rates. Right,

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Speaker 2: So they're in a really difficult situation here, and it

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Speaker 2: does become political as we get into twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: because every week we are going to have candidates on

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Speaker 2: the right that are going to be kind of railing

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Speaker 2: against whatever that FED share pals doing. They're going to

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Speaker 2: say it's perfectly political. They're going to say that the

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Speaker 2: former FED chair Janet Yellen, who is now Biden's Treasury secretary,

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Speaker 2: right is in bed with the FED, and the FED

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Speaker 2: is supposed to be an independent organization. So this is

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Speaker 2: going to get very politicized very soon. And going back

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Speaker 2: to what I said before is that if you think that,

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Speaker 2: you know, a stronger economy has been a good thing

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Speaker 2: for this administration, I'd say yes, but he's not getting

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Speaker 2: any credit for it. That's present and Biden, if just

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Speaker 2: look at the polling on the economy, it's really bad.

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Speaker 2: And so I don't know if it gets better from here,

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Speaker 2: which is why I think that that whole campaign that

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Speaker 2: they had a couple months ago with Bidenomics and getting

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Speaker 2: them out there and his folks, you know, and I

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Speaker 2: think the last time we talked, they need to do

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Speaker 2: a better job on this because if the economy is

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Speaker 2: okay right now and we are not in recession and

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Speaker 2: it's been able to withstand the sort of interest rate

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Speaker 2: hikes that have happened over the last eighteen months, then

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Speaker 2: there's a story to tell. With unemployment as low as

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Speaker 2: it is right now. So to me, I think that's

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Speaker 2: a whole host of great things that they could be

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Speaker 2: talking about. And then the reshoring of a lot of

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Speaker 2: jobs that are incentivized by a lot of stuff in

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Speaker 2: this fiscal you know, plans that they kind of laid

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Speaker 2: out last year and the IRA and stuff. Those are

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Speaker 2: all good for US workers, but they're also inflationary because

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Speaker 2: one of the worst sort of I think takes about

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Speaker 2: the last fifty years with globalization is that you know,

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Speaker 2: we got as consumers, you know, we got addicted to

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Speaker 2: cheap goods, and if that's going to be reversing out

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Speaker 2: of China, it's going to be inflationary and better be

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Speaker 2: prepared to pay more for your iPhone and some other

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Speaker 2: things that are going to be made in other places

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Speaker 2: closer to home.

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Speaker 1: Yes, for sure. And I mean that's the fundamental thing

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Speaker 1: that people are so upset about, is paying more for things. Right,

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Speaker 1: Like people in America do not like pay more for things.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, listen, it goes back in the Trump

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Speaker 2: administration when they started this trade war with China. I

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Speaker 2: mean it was really interesting in a way, is that

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Speaker 2: a lot of folks are a lot of people that

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Speaker 2: support him didn't realize that they were supporting something that

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Speaker 2: worked against their best interests. Right when steel prices are

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Speaker 2: more expensive and you are you know, an auto worker,

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Speaker 2: you know, and less cars are being sold because the

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Speaker 2: prices are higher, you know, this all happens to come back.

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Speaker 2: And so if plants have to close because there's less

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Speaker 2: demand for things, I mean, these are all the fundamental

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Speaker 2: you know, economic issues that we have to deal with.

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Speaker 2: And when you map them to politics, and when you

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Speaker 2: have people like the last administration who surely have no

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Speaker 2: idea about much of this, you know, it gets really slow.

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Speaker 2: You could make the case that the Biden administration has

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Speaker 2: been as hard or harder on China. So like the

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Speaker 2: situation with China only gets worse from here. Also, and

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Speaker 2: I'll just tell you a lot of folks that are

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Speaker 2: involved in markets and this is the number one bugaboo,

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Speaker 2: if you will, China and kind of decoupling from China.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think whoever wins in twenty twenty four

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Speaker 2: and whoever takes the Senate, I don't think anything changes

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Speaker 2: in that regard. It seems to be fairly bipartisan. And

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you that. The other thing that you know,

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Speaker 2: it might not be under the radar for too long,

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Speaker 2: the fact that our neighbors to the north are in

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Speaker 2: this big brew haha with India. India's most beneficiary of

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Speaker 2: kind of you know, moving away from China. And if

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Speaker 2: the North America is in a bit of a row

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Speaker 2: with two and a half trillion as far as populous,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, between India and China, we

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Speaker 2: might be headed to what looks like a more bipolar

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Speaker 2: world as it relates to just kind of geopolitics and

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Speaker 2: economics globalization.

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Speaker 1: With China, one of the things that Biden administration has

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Speaker 1: been doing is they've been quietly trying to sort of

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Speaker 1: shore up that relationship, but also shore up in Japan,

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Speaker 1: South Korea, the other countries on that peninsula or near

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Speaker 1: that you know, in that area who are useful if

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Speaker 1: you need to kind of go against China. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it feels like we're at an uneasy day tent with China.

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Speaker 2: Very uneasy. I mean, it doesn't get better from here,

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Speaker 2: as I said before, because you know, at some point.

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Speaker 2: All indications are that they're going to make some sort

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Speaker 2: of move on Taiwan, and it could start out as

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Speaker 2: some sort of economic sort of blockade, it could be

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Speaker 2: something militarily. I mean some of the exercises that they're

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Speaker 2: running right now, those are the sorts of things that

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Speaker 2: obviously make the Japanese and the South Koreans very nervous.

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Speaker 2: And when you think about China and you think about

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Speaker 2: North Korea, how they've been cozing up to Russia, who

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Speaker 2: just invaded obviously last year, a sovereign neighbor of theirs,

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Speaker 2: A lot of these things are really intertwined, right And

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Speaker 2: so you know, when I think about China is like

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Speaker 2: the multinationals US multinational companies and the precedent that they

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Speaker 2: set when Russia rolled into Ukraine by pulling out of Russia,

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Speaker 2: you know, is that going to be the map? Is

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Speaker 2: that going to be the playbook for US multinationals if

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Speaker 2: the Chinese do anything with Taiwan. And when you think

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Speaker 2: about China as being this engine for global growth over

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Speaker 2: the last twenty years, the economic data in China right

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Speaker 2: now is really bad. Export data is really bad. They're

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Speaker 2: facing bouts of deflation right now. So if they in

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Speaker 2: an effort to kind of restimulate, you know, whatever sort

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Speaker 2: of activity, and they see Taiwan and a good way

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Speaker 2: to do it. You know, US multinationals, Japan and South Korea,

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Speaker 2: you know, are very staunch allies. We're going to be

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Speaker 2: in a bit of a pickle. And that is the

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Speaker 2: sort of thing that could send the global economy into

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Speaker 2: a really bad place, especially if you think that we

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Speaker 2: will have a redo of the inflationary pressures on natural resources.

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Speaker 2: You know, remember what happened with oil after Russia invaded Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: So those are you know, China is a huge buyer

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Speaker 2: of natural resources and crewed in the like in natural gas.

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Speaker 2: So you know, all this stuff is kind of interrelated

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Speaker 2: and it makes a lot of people, you know, away

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Speaker 2: from the human aspect of it. And I think that

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Speaker 2: obviously is not something that we should kind of poo poo,

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Speaker 2: But from an economic standpoint and from a geopolitical standpoint,

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is this is the one thing I

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Speaker 2: think that has the ability to really kind of break

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Speaker 2: the economy right now at a time where interest rates

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Speaker 2: again have only been going higher to deal with inflation,

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Speaker 2: and all of what I just said is inflationary deglobalization

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Speaker 2: and then geopolitical rowse between you know, China and Taiwan

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Speaker 2: or Russia and Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: That's very annoying. But can China kick the rest of

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Speaker 1: the world into a recession? Is that what you're painting?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that does have the potential to do that, right,

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Speaker 2: So where is the incremental growth that could happen around

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Speaker 2: the globe right now? Europe is in a you know,

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Speaker 2: recessionary sort of.

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Speaker 1: Environment, right and England does forget it, Yeah, England is

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Speaker 1: not particularly great here.

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Speaker 2: And so when you think about what is the kind

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Speaker 2: of knock on effect of US consumers are basically seventy

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Speaker 2: percent of our GDP our gross domestic product here, and

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Speaker 2: if the US consumer to slow down because interest rates

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Speaker 2: are too high because you know, they're not going to

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Speaker 2: tap home equity loans with you know, mortgage rates you know,

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Speaker 2: above seven percent, if floating rates on credit, which is

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Speaker 2: hitting for consumers all time highs right now, is just

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Speaker 2: not sustainable to continue this level of growth. I mean

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Speaker 2: it's going to be really hard, right like to keep

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Speaker 2: our economy humming along. So the idea of a recession

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Speaker 2: that's two consecutive negative quarters of GDP. That's not so hard,

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Speaker 2: and it's not even that bad of a thing. Those

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Speaker 2: are their natural cycles in economies here, right, But the

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Speaker 2: fact that we've become so interrelated with let's say Europe

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Speaker 2: and with China, and if China is weakening and Europe

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Speaker 2: is already weak, and there's a potential for you know,

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Speaker 2: some major hiccups as it relates to our manufacturing in China.

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Speaker 2: Like to me, I just don't know how we avoid

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Speaker 2: recession in the next year or so. And if you

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Speaker 2: had asked me a year ago at this time, I

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Speaker 2: would have said in twenty twenty three. But the longer

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Speaker 2: we kick the can down the road, the more unstable

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Speaker 2: our US consumer is. And if our US consumer is

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Speaker 2: literally the engine behind our economic growth, with China weakening

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Speaker 2: at a time when we're diversifying away from China, it's

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Speaker 2: just not a great picture right now. So I wish

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Speaker 2: I know you said it's annoying. I wish I had

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Speaker 2: a rosier outlook. And if you want to talk about goldilocks,

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Speaker 2: that's great, that's backward looking. If you look at a

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Speaker 2: lot of the leading indicators for the economy, they're softening

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 1: So interesting so let me ask you, what could the

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Speaker 1: Biden administration do?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, at this point, I don't think, you know,

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Speaker 2: more fiscal stimulus is the right thing that.

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Speaker 1: Will cause more inflation.

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Speaker 2: And you know, like when you think about polls and

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Speaker 2: you think about the sorts of things that like voters

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Speaker 2: when they're going to vote, you know, I mean, what

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Speaker 2: do they care about? They care about their economic stability,

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Speaker 2: They care about their job and that sort of thing,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of these other issues that will help,

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Speaker 2: I think, define the twenty twenty four election. Guns and

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Speaker 2: abortion and immigration. I think they're a side show if

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Speaker 2: you feel like you you know, have to make a

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Speaker 2: choice between feeding your family and paying your heating bill

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Speaker 2: or you think you're going to be you know, losing

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Speaker 2: your job, and tuition has become too expensive, healthcare is

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Speaker 2: to so they have to control the narrative better. I

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Speaker 2: think they've done a very poor job. I'm at doing that.

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Speaker 2: They need more, you know, people out there telling the

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Speaker 2: story how US consumers are doing better than they were

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Speaker 2: four years ago in the like, and I just don't

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Speaker 2: think they're good at that. Again, I don't think more

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Speaker 2: fiscal stimulus would do the sort of thing. But some

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Speaker 2: sort of good resolution with this United Auto Worker and

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Speaker 2: where the government is helpful, I think would be really

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Speaker 2: good because that is a voting you know, block that

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Speaker 2: I think is should be important to the Biden being

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Speaker 2: re elected. So I think there's just being more upfront

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Speaker 2: about these issues and how this is not going to

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Speaker 2: be an easy situation to tame because inflation is not

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Speaker 2: going down meaningfully anytime soon, and interest rates are to

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Speaker 2: have to stay higher for longer. That's at least what

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Speaker 2: the Fed's telling The only way interest rates go down

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Speaker 2: a lot. They're not going to be good for good

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Speaker 2: economic reasons. They've gone down in the post Dot com recession,

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Speaker 2: and then they went down in the period during the

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Speaker 2: financial crisis. We don't want any of those sorts of

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Speaker 2: situations happen. So if they can kind of thread the

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Speaker 2: needle a little bit and kind of get to the

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Speaker 2: other side of twenty twenty four without having to do

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Speaker 2: anything dramatic, I think they just have to control the

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Speaker 2: narrative better.

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Speaker 1: And that's why they didn't raise rates again.

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Speaker 2: I think what the FED is saying to us, and

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Speaker 2: this has nothing to do with the administration. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the administration can try to put pressure on them, but

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Speaker 2: they are independent of the administration. Janet Yellen, who's the

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Speaker 2: Treasury Secretary, the former the head of the FED, I mean,

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Speaker 2: she can be as political as she wants, but she

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Speaker 2: cannot try to do things to influence the US FED.

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Speaker 2: So they didn't raise interest rates because they wanted to

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Speaker 2: take a pause. Now, the likelihood is that they raise

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Speaker 2: interest rates at the next meeting in November another twenty

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Speaker 2: five basis points, getting the FED funds rates of five

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Speaker 2: point seventy five percent. That shouldn't have a too dramatic

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Speaker 2: of impact on the economy, especially after they've just raised

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Speaker 2: five and a half percent over the last eighteen nineteen

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Speaker 2: months or so. But the point here is that they

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Speaker 2: are going to watch the data, and if the data

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Speaker 2: continues to be inflationary, then they need to have tighter

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Speaker 2: monetary policy. But if the data falls off a cliff

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Speaker 2: and gets much worse, that's a whole host of other problems,

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Speaker 2: and especially politically for the Biden administration. So I think

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Speaker 2: if they could freeze things right here, right now and

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Speaker 2: flash forward to the November twenty twenty four, I think

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Speaker 2: they would do that. But the likelihood that things stay

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Speaker 2: static right now is not particularly great.

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Speaker 1: Dan, thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Molly. I appreciate being on the pod. I

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Speaker 2: love the pod, and I'm amazed at which you do

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Speaker 2: nine a plus interviews a week on Fast Politics. It's

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Speaker 2: just beyond me, so keep it up.

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Speaker 1: Michael Wolfe is the author of The Fall, The End

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Speaker 1: of Fox News, and The Murdoch Dynasty. Welcome to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 3: Michael Lollie, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on this as a hot hot book.

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Speaker 3: Have you gotten a copy of it?

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Speaker 1: I have a copy, but I just got it, so

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Speaker 1: I haven't finished yet. Let's talk about first. You've written

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Speaker 1: a lot of books. You have written about a lot

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Speaker 1: of politicians and people, and why did you pick this.

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Speaker 4: I haven't written about a lot of politicians. I really

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Speaker 4: don't like to write about politicians. I have written about

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump, who I would say is distinguished by not

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Speaker 4: being a politician.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a good point.

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Speaker 4: But I have written a lot about Rupert Murdoch. So

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Speaker 4: I have been writing about Rupert Murdoch since when was

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Speaker 4: my Murdoch biography published in two thousand and nine, And

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Speaker 4: before that I was New York Magazines media reporter and

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Speaker 4: vanity fairs media reporter. So I often wrote about Murdoch,

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Speaker 4: and then Murdoch let me in for some reason that

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Speaker 4: I'm sure he can't explain, nor can I let me

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Speaker 4: into his world, very quite intimately, and I spent a

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Speaker 4: year basically interviewing him, his family, his executives, anybody I

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Speaker 4: wanted to, including his mother. So I have been writing

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Speaker 4: about him on a fairly steady basis since then. And

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Speaker 4: this is kind of, you know, a book end. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it is ending. I mean, Murdoch is ninety two, and

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Speaker 4: the end comes even to him sooner rather than later.

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Speaker 4: The curious point of this story is that that end

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Speaker 4: will take Fox, arguably the most powerful political influence in

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Speaker 4: this country. His end will take Fox with it. You

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Speaker 4: can't take Fox with you. You can't take Fox. So

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Speaker 4: you really do think that the death of Ruper Murdock

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Speaker 4: will be the end of Fox News?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think that there's any piece of

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Speaker 4: logic that could find an alternative to that. It ends.

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Speaker 4: Because this is a company that is really exists because

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Speaker 4: of one man, and he has children who will take

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Speaker 4: over control of the company. Four children. You have six children,

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Speaker 4: but there are four who will take over they do

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Speaker 4: not agree with each other on and their disagreements kind

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Speaker 4: of approach the mortal level. It's a blood score between them,

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Speaker 4: and there's a virtually no scenario in which they can

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Speaker 4: go forward in agreement.

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Speaker 1: So tell me what you think Ruper Murdoch will think

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Speaker 1: of this book if he has not gotten it yet.

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Speaker 4: That's an interesting thing because when the Murdoch organization doesn't

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Speaker 4: like something, it responds with, or, at least in my experience,

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Speaker 4: responds with a unique.

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Speaker 3: Kind of venom.

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Speaker 4: After my biography of Murdoch was published, which he did

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Speaker 4: not like at all, which I always found somewhat curious

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Speaker 4: because it's really not a negative biography. When he got

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Speaker 4: a copy of it, he called me up and a

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Speaker 4: fear tried to get him to tell me what he

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Speaker 4: objected to, and he finally sputtered out, but it's just

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Speaker 4: so personal, and I said, but.

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Speaker 3: Rupert, it's a biography at any rate.

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Speaker 4: He didn't like it, and part of his response ended

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Speaker 4: up being quite painful for me because my marriage was

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Speaker 4: then breaking up at that point, and I was involved

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Speaker 4: with someone else, which nobody else knew except the New

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Speaker 4: York Post found out. They went out of their way

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Speaker 4: shall we say, to find out and raked me through

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Speaker 4: for weeks or certainly what felt like weeks on and

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Speaker 4: I was hardly a celebrity, was treated as a celebrity

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Speaker 4: with outrageous marital difficulties and anyway it was, it was terrible.

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Speaker 4: So I would like to say I am poised now,

437
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 4: but I am not poised. And I firstly, I really

438
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 4: can't imagine what is going to come my way, but

439
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 4: I would not.

440
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 3: Be surprised if it was some serious stuff.

441
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: So what do you think is the thing that's going

442
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 1: to make him the most enraged?

443
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 4: I mean, it's personal. This is about his family. I

444
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 4: mean this is about Fox too. It's not just about

445
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 4: his family. I mean it's about the personalities at Fox,

446
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 4: which has its own problems. I mean, there's the Foxes

447
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 4: has problems with the Murdoch families, but it has problems

448
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 4: with Donald Trump, who the Murdochs hate, but Fox's audience love.

449
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 4: It has problems with its various personalities. The whole Tucker

450
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 4: Carlson story is laid out here. I would safely say

451
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 4: that there's not one single thing that Rupert Murdoch is

452
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 4: going to like about this book.

453
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: Talk to me about Laura Ingram. There's some very interesting

454
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: stuff in here.

455
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 4: I think I kind of feel sorry for Laura. You know,

456
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 4: Fox is a very difficult place, to say the least

457
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 4: for a woman to work. I mean, it was particularly

458
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 4: difficult in the age of Roger Ayles, but it hasn't

459
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 4: gotten much better. I don't think that they necessarily jump

460
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 4: on you there anymore, but they certainly don't treat women

461
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 4: like they treat men. And I think Laura Ingraham has

462
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,400
Speaker 4: been put in the very difficult, difficult position. And there's

463
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 4: a lot of reasons that she would want this job

464
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 4: and does want this job, but is.

465
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 3: Her heart in it?

466
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 4: And you know, that's one of the interesting things about

467
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 4: about Fox and why it has done so well, is

468
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 4: that its stars have their heart in it. They are

469
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 4: fully invested in being Fox people, in talking to the

470
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 4: Fox audience. And I think she's been a little resistant

471
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 4: to this, reticent about it, although she has tried curiously.

472
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 4: You know, she's one of Murdoch's favorites, and she's one

473
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 4: of his favorites because she's actually not a Trump Maga

474
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 4: right winger. She's kind of an old fashioned, a nineties

475
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 4: right winger, which Murdoch is.

476
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: But there's a lot about her drinking, which I think

477
00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: is pretty interesting.

478
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

479
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 4: Well, and she's not the only drinker at Fox. It's

480
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 4: a big drinking place. The Murdoch family is a big

481
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 4: drinking family. But yeah, I mean, and there's a particular

482
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 4: scene in.

483
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: The scene with the plane. Will you talk about that.

484
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 4: I tell the story of a trip on Sean Hannity's

485
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 4: plane to Roger Ayles's funeral in the spring of twenty seventeen,

486
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 4: and Laura was, who was not working at Fox at

487
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 4: the time but wanted to work at Fox at the time,

488
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 4: was at the funeral and she got very, very drunk.

489
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 4: I mean, one of those kind of drunken scenes that

490
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 4: is a kind of television worthy drunken scene, the full

491
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 4: monty of drunkenness, and so much so that she tried

492
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 4: to get a ride with Hannity on his plane back

493
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 4: to New York. She wanted to be dropped off of Washington,

494
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 4: but Hannity wouldn't let her on the plane because he

495
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 4: said those planes are too small for someone who would

496
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 4: clearly end up in the bathroom vomiting the whole time.

497
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: That is not the only time she gets rejected. The

498
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: Murdoch suns found her retro not aspiring talk to me

499
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: about that.

500
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 4: When she was highed, that was a kind of tussle

501
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 4: between between father and sons about who would get to

502
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 4: make this higher and it was actually Rupert who finally.

503
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 3: Decided to make this attire.

504
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 4: And the sons were annoyed about this and regarded her

505
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 4: as kind of an old fashioned conservative who was in

506
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 4: an old fashioned you know, a person who sell by

507
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 4: date as a media personality had passed.

508
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: Right, but she has really hung on. I mean, what

509
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: do you think about that?

510
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 4: She was the only woman in the lineup, and she

511
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 4: was kind of convenient in the lineup between the two

512
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 4: big enchiladas of the primetime schedule who didn't want someone

513
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,239
Speaker 4: else who might compete with them. So she was a

514
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 4: sort of convenient buffer for Tucker and for Hannity. But

515
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 4: now she has just been relegated out of official prime time.

516
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: There's so many personalities in this book, and there's so

517
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: much for Rubert Murdos.

518
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 4: Is just like when liberals such as I suppose ourselves

519
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 4: write about Fox, it's always written as the overriding point

520
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 4: is politics, And I've tried to make this the overwriting

521
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 4: point here. Television that it's really not you know, Fox

522
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 4: is not. Yes there's politics at Fox, and yes that's

523
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 4: the subtext, But the overt text is how do I

524
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 4: stay on the air? I am, you know, like all

525
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 4: television people. I mean, what do all television news people

526
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:04,959
Speaker 4: have in common is desperate desire and need to stay

527
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 4: on the air. And it's I will do anything to

528
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 4: stay on the air. That's this motivation that I tried

529
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 4: to I try to convey that unique experience.

530
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: And it's really about the family, which is really interesting.

531
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: Before we talk about Tucker hals and we need to

532
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: talk about Arena Braganti. Please tell our listeners who she

533
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: is and sort of she is really one of the

534
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: most important figures in anything about Fox.

535
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 3: She's the pr person.

536
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 4: But what that means, you know, she comes out of

537
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 4: the Ales era, is that she is the enforcer. If

538
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 4: I get it by the Murdocks in any way, it

539
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,239
Speaker 4: will come from her. She is the one who is

540
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 4: out there selling the Fox message to other media, but

541
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 4: she is punishing anyone who crosses who Fox feels has

542
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 4: crossed them. She's I mean, super good at her job.

543
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 4: One interesting aspect is that she often uses the New

544
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 4: York Times to do this, which seems counterintuitive since The

545
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 4: New York Times hates Fox so much, But since she

546
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 4: has often dissing people who are on Fox, then The

547
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 4: Times becomes a willing and convenient outlet. So I was,

548
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 4: for again reasons that are not necessarily clear or intuitive,

549
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 4: I was very friendly with Roger Ayles for many, many years.

550
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 4: I was friendly with him because he was a great source,

551
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 4: because he was a great gossip, because he had really

552
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 4: unique insights into the media business, which I was covering

553
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 4: for much of much of that time. On one occasion,

554
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 4: I can't remember what I was writing about, but I

555
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,719
Speaker 4: didn't call him. I called the Fox PR people, and

556
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 4: he got wind of this, and he called me up

557
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 4: and he said, why wouldn't she call me? If you

558
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 4: want to know what happened, don't quote I reading. Her

559
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 4: job is not to tell you the truth. It's the

560
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 4: opposite her job. You want to know something, you call me.

561
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: It's amazing, So talk to me about the dominion case.

562
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: Because that was like a very sort of will there

563
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: won't they settle situation?

564
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 4: It always seemed that way. There was no possibility that

565
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 4: they were not going to settle this. You know, the

566
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 4: first rule of any media company in a libel or

567
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 4: defamation case is never go before a jury. You go

568
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 4: before a jury, you're going to loose. But they got

569
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 4: awfully close to going before a jury. I mean I

570
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 4: was actually sitting there. I was face to face with

571
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 4: that with that jury shortly after.

572
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: You know, and I believe it would have been right.

573
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 4: After the lunch break the jury was seated. There was

574
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 4: a lunch break, and then the lunch break was prolonged,

575
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 4: and then they settled because of that immutable rule that

576
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 4: was this, This was the line in the saying you

577
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 4: could not face the jury. And so the real story is,

578
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 4: how in hell did it get that close? Yeah, they

579
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 4: should have settled months and months and months and months

580
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 4: and months before. There was a moment. Would think it

581
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 4: would be about a year and a half before when

582
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 4: Murdoch was complaining that this could cost him fifty million

583
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 4: dollars in the end, and it cost him seven hundred

584
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 4: and eighty five eighty seven million dollars. That's the story.

585
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 4: Why did it take so long? And that's the indication

586
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 4: of the kind of disarray that was going on within

587
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 4: the organization.

588
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: So you think they just couldn't get it together in time.

589
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean they couldn't get it together, and I

590
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 4: would say it was There was and continues to be

591
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 4: only one real decision maker, and that's Murdoch and he

592
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 4: is ninety two, So getting him to make decisions, I

593
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 4: think is very difficult. I think getting him to focus

594
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 4: becomes more and more difficult. I think that he processed

595
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 4: this whole as being not Fox's fault, but Donald Trump's fault,

596
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 4: and in some way this became about Donald Trump paying

597
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 4: for this, and somehow it became about his grievance against

598
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 4: Donald Trump instead of focusing on the fact that this

599
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 4: lawsuit was directed at him.

600
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: In fact, the.

601
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: Tucker Cross and Fox fight continues.

602
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 4: I thought it's probably an indication of an even broader

603
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 4: fight that's happening, and that's going to happen in conservative media.

604
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 4: For a long time, Fox has been at a monopoly

605
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 4: position in conservative media. There was only one outlet, and

606
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 4: it was dominant to a dramatic extreme. And I think

607
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 4: now we see more and more that there are other

608
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 4: possibilities here and that conservative media will fragment and this

609
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 4: shouldn't be a surprise in the same way that liberal

610
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 4: media has spregnant.

611
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: So interesting. Thank you so much, Michael.

612
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 3: And thank you.

613
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: Ben Tulchen is a pollster and the founder of Toulchien Research.

614
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: Welcome to you fast politics.

615
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:15,719
Speaker 5: Ben, thank you for having me.

616
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to let you introduce yourself to us. Tell

617
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: me about what you do.

618
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 6: Sure, I'm a political poster for Democrats, helping get them elected.

619
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 6: Also do bout measures, work for isshie clients, nonprofit organizations,

620
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 6: labor unions and those kinds of clients. Best known for

621
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 6: poland for Bernie Sanders presidential kpaign in twenty sixteen and

622
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 6: twenty twenty also elected the Mayor of New York City,

623
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 6: Eric Adams, which I was named Polster of the Year recently.

624
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 6: So I work for lots of clients around the country

625
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 6: as well, but those are kind of my claim to fame.

626
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: So you're a Democratic pollster, but you have candidates that

627
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: are sometimes not in the Democratic mainstream.

628
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 6: As a consultant, we I work for cancer. I like

629
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 6: shout out what I work for. I tend to be

630
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 6: kind of a broad ideological mix.

631
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: Yes, let's talk about what the nuts and bolts of

632
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: pulstering looks like for you.

633
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, sure, I mean one, we have to get hired

634
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 6: by a cant right and we have to get paid.

635
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 3: But in all seriousness, doesn't how always happen.

636
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 6: But the industry self polling has gone under a lot

637
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 6: of changes and transformations the last several years. I mean

638
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 6: a lot's been discussed about. There are fewer people willing

639
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 6: to respond to surveys. We used to call landlines. Those

640
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 6: don't really exist anymore. So now we have to find

641
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 6: other ways to reach people through cell phones, texting, calling,

642
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 6: cell phones, email, you name it. So the industry has

643
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 6: changed a lot. It's gotten harder to do what I do.

644
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 6: But my value adds a pulster and a strategist, and

645
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 6: I really pride myself for being a strategist. I don't

646
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 6: just deliver poll numbers. I provide strategy and that's kind

647
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 6: of my value ad. And you know, I've been instrumental

648
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 6: and you know, taking Berry Sanders from zero to percent

649
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 6: to the brink of the nomination. I was instrumental electing

650
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 6: Aericam's mayor. And you're sitting a very difficult, diverse, multi

651
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 6: candet field with ring choice voting scenarios.

652
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 5: So my job is.

653
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 6: To not just tell you what the numbers are, but

654
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 6: like figure out a strategy how to win.

655
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: But you also do focus groups.

656
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 5: We do, Yes, we do, and.

657
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: Lately you've been doing focus groups. Tell us what you've

658
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: been sort of working on and the stuff that you

659
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: have been talking to my friend Ron Brownstein about.

660
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 6: Look, I mean, as we kind of heading into a

661
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 6: presidential election year and having worked for Bernie, and I've

662
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 6: seen kind of a clear pattern of merge where Democright

663
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 6: Party has struggled with working class voters right, and they've

664
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 6: struggled in delivering an economic message, and that was clear.

665
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 6: What the driver of success for Bernie's campaign in both

666
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 6: twenty sixteen and twenty twenty was he had a very clear, powerful, progressive,

667
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 6: economic populist message. And I feel that Direct Party is

668
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 6: kind of hasn't learned the lessons from that. Whi he

669
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 6: was successful, Many people in the party view him as

670
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 6: his kind of left wing crazy guy, and the fact

671
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 6: is that he actually had a very clear coping here

672
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 6: an economic message that resonated very powerfully with young people

673
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 6: and Latinos in particular, and that drove a success. And

674
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 6: those are two groups quite frankly, that Biden struggled with

675
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty that Bernie did much better than Biden

676
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 6: within those two groups, and it didn't start off that way.

677
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 6: With Latinos in particular, we were tied with Biden the

678
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 6: begining of the campaign, and over the course of the campaign,

679
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 6: through a very discipline focused economic message, we gained separation

680
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 6: for Biden and ultimately ran circles around him. And that's

681
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 6: We're able to win Nevado at California and do quite

682
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 6: well with Latinos. So I'm seeing that. And then I

683
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 6: did a really fascinating project of left leaning gun owners.

684
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: I want to get to that, but first I want

685
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: to talk to you about Latino voters, because that is

686
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 1: the two really the weak spots for Democratic reelection are

687
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: the young voters and the Latino voters, right, especially Latino men,

688
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: male voters. Right. That is a number that Biden is

689
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: losing and that the Republicans are picking up for whatever reason.

690
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: For the people who are staunchly anti Bernie who are

691
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, and I know there are some

692
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: of you, Bernie has already endorsed Biden, so that is done, right.

693
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: He's not going to primary him, period paragraph But Bernie

694
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: had a bunch of really exciting progressive ideas, like the

695
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: climate Core and that now Biden has just implemented, right,

696
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: He's implemented two of Bernie's key kind of things. I mean,

697
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: do you think that there is a way for do

698
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: you think that more successful messaging of that will help?

699
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: And do you think that Biden did these things because

700
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: he knows he needs those voters?

701
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 2: Yeah?

702
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 6: I look, I mean I know that Biden if you

703
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 6: look at the polling, right or he's lot Biden's locked

704
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 6: into a very close rate with Trump, who's the likely

705
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 6: Republican nominee. What I've been observing is having gone through

706
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 6: the twenty twenty campaign to do a lot of polling

707
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 6: and watching you know, Burry do very well with young

708
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 6: people and Latinos and Biden struggle with them. They eventually

709
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 6: rallied to Biden in the general election, but then three

710
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 6: months into Biden's presidency they kind of left it right

711
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 6: and just and a lot of move to kind of

712
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 6: unsure undecided. But they weren't sold on Biden at the beginning.

713
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 6: They warmed up to him and when it was a

714
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 6: comparative a choice between Trump and Biden, but then they

715
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 6: didn't show a lot of loyalty, and then having stuck

716
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 6: with them now in looking at recent polling versus Biden

717
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 6: versus Trump, example, Latinos and exit polling. In twenty twenty,

718
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 6: Biden won Latinos by thirty three points sixty five to

719
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 6: thirty two, and recent polling against Trump, Biden is only

720
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 6: winning among Latinos by seven points forty five thirty eight

721
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 6: with a lot.

722
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 5: Of others, so there's a net twenty six point drop off.

723
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 6: Young voters show a very similar pattern where Biden won

724
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 6: them by twenty four points sixty to thirty six and

725
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 6: twenty twenty Corten exit polling and now he's only up three,

726
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 6: so it's a dramatic chip. Now my view is this

727
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 6: should be low hanging fruit for the Biden campaign. So

728
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 6: to your point is he's focusing on them, embracing policies,

729
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 6: advocating policies that young people support, that Latin they should

730
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 6: be appealing to Latinos. But he's always struggled with these

731
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 6: two groups, so it's going to take a lot of

732
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 6: work for him.

733
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: To win them over.

734
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 1: In my view, talk to me about gun owners, who

735
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:29,760
Speaker 1: exactly is in this group?

736
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 6: So these are you know, left leaning gun owners, right,

737
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,240
Speaker 6: So if you think about where Trump has made inros

738
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 6: with working class voters and Biden and Democrats expense. It's

739
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 6: been you know, versus Hillary and versus Biden. African American

740
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 6: men and Latino men. Right, So there's the two subsets

741
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 6: that Trump has made some inroads with. And they're disproportionately

742
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 6: working class, and they're disproportionally gun owners. So I've been

743
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 6: working with a coalition trying to organize and connect with

744
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 6: left leaning gun owners. After every mass shooting, right, there's

745
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 6: obviously rush for advocating for tougher gun safety laws, and

746
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 6: the challenge of left leaning gun owners is then they feel.

747
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 5: Kind of, oh, do I belong in this party?

748
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 2: Right?

749
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 6: So this effort is to kind of make them feel

750
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 6: welcome voting.

751
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 5: For progressive candidates and causes.

752
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 2: Right.

753
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 6: You know we found is that they own God, these

754
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 6: folks own guns. They like owning guns. They're proud to

755
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 6: be gun owners, right, So, which is not a typical

756
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 6: profile of today's in today's Democratic Party, which has become

757
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 6: more white collar professional, right. So, you know, they're just

758
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 6: purtily working class and many of them are struggling financially

759
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 6: and they're really worried about the economy, and we're more

760
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 6: inclined to vote for Biden over Trump, but you don't

761
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,720
Speaker 6: have concerns, especially on economic issues.

762
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: So this is the group that is being affected by

763
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: inflation the most.

764
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, our experience if you look at kind of acroeconomics

765
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 6: microaps and our research, I mean young people in Latinos.

766
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 6: These are the two groups that you know Biden is

767
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 6: struggling with the most now compared to where how he

768
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 6: did in twenty twenty. They have been deeply impacted by inflation. Right,

769
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 6: You're a young person, and people tend to make less

770
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 6: money they're earlier in their careers. And so if you're

771
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 6: a young person and the groceries st have gone up,

772
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 6: and costs and price of gas has gone up, in

773
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 6: rent has gone up, you feel that a lot and

774
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 6: young people don't have any sort of historical perspective, right,

775
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 6: they have been through inflation.

776
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 5: This is new to them.

777
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 6: Inflation is the first time they're really experiencing inflation. And

778
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 6: they just know that A things cost more and b

779
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 6: that Joe Biden is present. Right, And so while they

780
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 6: are left leaning politically and voted for Biden in big

781
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 6: numbers in twenty twenty, you know a lot of them

782
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 6: moved to the on side of column. Right, now in

783
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 6: a matchup between Biden and Trump, and they'll say, well,

784
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 6: five years ago we didn't have inflation.

785
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 5: Today we have inflation.

786
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 6: So the Bien folks and del grag Parry has to

787
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 6: vote to young people and compel them to vote for

788
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 6: Biden and tell them a convincing economic message and b

789
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 6: why Donald Trump is really really bad or not that

790
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 6: they don't know that, but you just have to an election.

791
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 6: It's a binary choice between two people. You got to

792
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 6: remind them why they hate Donald Trump, so they vote

793
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 6: for Joe.

794
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 1: Biden, right exactly? With student debt, are they mad about

795
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: the student debt situation? And if so, who do they blame?

796
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 6: They're frustrated for sure, because it has real impact. I mean,

797
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 6: if you want student debt payments.

798
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: And interest rates just went ah, yes, So.

799
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 3: It's it's real.

800
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 6: It's a real pocketbook issue, and it's impact in a

801
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 6: real way.

802
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 3: I mean, I think from pulling.

803
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 6: We've done and others done. They largely blame the Supreme

804
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 6: Court and MAGA and call tunes. But Biden's present, right,

805
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 6: so and he got it done, but they didn't get done.

806
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 6: So that's the story that Biden's going to have to

807
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 6: tell is explain point direct their anger at Donald Trump's

808
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 6: Supreme Courts right, and say, look, this is the reason

809
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 6: why you're student loans paying forgiveness got thrown out, and

810
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 6: I'm the one who stood up for you. So the

811
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 6: challenge Biden has is he has to make the argument right,

812
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 6: He has to make the case to them about why

813
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 6: Donald Trump's bad for them, and Joe Biden stands up

814
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:15,280
Speaker 6: for their interests.

815
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: So I think one of the most interesting and useful

816
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: things that I have been hearing about is that this

817
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 1: polling is really sort of directional. Right, this is what

818
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: Biden needs to do over the next four hundred plus

819
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: days in order to win. Right, talk to us about

820
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: the sort of like how Biden should take these polls.

821
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean he's got to make a concerted effort

822
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 6: at targeting these groups in a way that's meaningful, authentic,

823
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 6: and constantly right. I mean, the you know, younger rooters

824
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 6: and Latinos and they lean left, they voted for him

825
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty, and he's got to woo them and

826
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 6: win the back. And I think, look, I think it's

827
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 6: a multi step process. I mean, he's got to lay

828
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 6: out a pot positive messages story to tell which look

829
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 6: at people have their own personal economic experience. You know,

830
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 6: the positive messaging about what he's done the economy is

831
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 6: going to have a limited impact, but he still has

832
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 6: to tell that story, especially on student loan debt forgiveness. Right,

833
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 6: But then he's got to go destroy Donald Trump and

834
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 6: just just savage Donald Trump. And he's starting to do

835
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 6: that more. But that's one big critique I've had of

836
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 6: the of the Biden administration is he wouldn't even mention

837
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 6: Donald Trump's name for the first two years. And look,

838
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 6: I mean, every good narrative, every good story has a feeling, right,

839
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 6: I mean, Star Wars is nothing without Darth Vader, right,

840
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 6: And their refusal to kind of engage Trump and Maga

841
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 6: Republicans consistently. I mean they've started doing it now, but

842
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 6: for two years, they wouldn't even mention the other side,

843
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 6: including Trump. And I just feel like the reason Biden

844
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 6: got elected was if you look at exit polling, most

845
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 6: people said it was a vote against Donald Trump, not

846
00:43:58,320 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 6: a vote for Joe Biden.

847
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 5: And maybe the Biden folks.

848
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 6: Thought that, well, he can become president, be this inspirational figure,

849
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 6: and he didn't.

850
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 5: He's done amazing job and policy.

851
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 6: Accomplished a lot on a policy front, but I feel

852
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 6: like he's always stronger when he's put it against somebody else, Right, Well,

853
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 6: that's Vanders or Donald Trump or whomever. Biden does better

854
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 6: when he is up against somebody else other than himself.

855
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 6: And I just think that making the next year about

856
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 6: why Donald Trump's a horrible person president and why he's

857
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 6: bad for these voters in particular, and how Biden has

858
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 6: made an effort to do good by them.

859
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 1: Right, I'm thinking about sort of this idea of populism,

860
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: really like successful economic populism. One of the reasons why,

861
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 1: and again I don't want to relitigate because Bernie endorsed

862
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: Biden and AOC endorsed Biden. But I want to say

863
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 1: something about Biden which is really about Bernie, which is

864
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: a Bernie had this incredibly good economic populist message that

865
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: was very compelling. It was Democrats speaking to working class

866
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: voters in a way that Hillary could not. Because clearly,

867
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: if you look at Biden's legislation, he has been an

868
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: economic populist. Right, He's done tariffs, he's pro union, he's

869
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: doing the kind of economic populism that you know Americans

870
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: desperately need How could he sort of steal that playbook

871
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: from Bernie a little bit?

872
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 3: Well, I mean the ironies he has, right, I mean

873
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 3: that's the thing is.

874
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 1: Right, the legislation, but the advertising.

875
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 6: It, I mean, that's the iron is why Bernie endorsed

876
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 6: him early, right, because he's Bernie feels like Biden's done

877
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 6: a great job on the policy front, and you know,

878
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 6: so Bernie's behind him. It's tough because Biden is who

879
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 6: he is, and he got elected president for being who

880
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 6: he is, right, which is kind of a steady hand

881
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 6: in stormy weather, right, and so you know, it can't

882
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 6: really embrace his inner Bernie and be Bernie. So I look,

883
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 6: I do think though, that advertising matters, right, telling story

884
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 6: over paid communication, whether digital TV ads matters, And it

885
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 6: takes time. I mean, if you look at you know,

886
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 6: the presidential primary toy toy, I mean, we Bernie has

887
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,399
Speaker 6: a very compelling economic message, but look at our TV ads.

888
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 6: I mean we really focused on economic messages in the

889
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 6: primary and that's where we will to win the first

890
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 6: three states so resoundingly. And if you look at Biden campaign,

891
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 6: they had limited resources and they were very biocentric about

892
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 6: you know, Biden's story, and they were kind of light

893
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 6: on economics, and I think that's one of the reason we

894
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 6: were so successful at the being in that. But look,

895
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 6: I think they're starting to talk about the economy that

896
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 6: can't Biden and this team are. And again, it's going

897
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 6: to have a as the incumbent if people aren't feeling

898
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 6: great about the economy. If you're saying how great the

899
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 6: economy is, is going to meet some resistance. But he's

900
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 6: going to highlight his accomplishments, highlight all the jobs he's

901
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 6: creating with manufacturing, Infrastructure Bill and the Chips Bill, and

902
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 6: tell us compelling story and contrast that with Trump's you know,

903
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 6: economic RECERD, which is basically a big tach cut for

904
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 6: big corporations. So that's how he's going to be come populous. Look,

905
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 6: I mean Barack Obama wasn't a populist, sounded like a

906
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 6: populist when he ran for re election at twenty twelve

907
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 6: because we're against Mitt Romney was a plutocrat and it

908
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 6: was the effective strategy. So I think the Biden folks

909
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 6: and Biden will are coming around to that. But but

910
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 6: also Biden, look, he can't he's Scranton Joe. I mean,

911
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 6: he does have these working class roots, so he does

912
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 6: have the ability to connect with working class people, and

913
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 6: he just has to channel that as best.

914
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 5: He can't in his own voice.

915
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 3: That's the other thing.

916
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 6: He can't get up there and sound like Bernie because

917
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 6: then everyone's know it's not that's not who Joe Biden is,

918
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 6: but in his own way as Scranton Joe, and through

919
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 6: policy accomplishments and highlighting Trump's true economic record, which is

920
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 6: massive task us for big corporations of the wealthy, and

921
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 6: while Joe Biden's trying to bring jobs back from China,

922
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 6: manufacturing jobs and high tech jobs. Heldough a compelling story

923
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 6: to tell, but it's just going to take a while

924
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 6: to tell it.

925
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Ben, Really interesting sure.

926
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 5: Thing and a moment.

927
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon, Molly job fast. Those Republicans are in disarray,

928
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: and I think it's always funny because we often make

929
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: a joke about that.

930
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 5: But what else do you call this?

931
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: They can't get the rules vote passed, and the rules

932
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: vote is like a very standard you know, like what

933
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 1: kind of paper shall we write this on? Since nineteen

934
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 1: ninety five, the House has failed to pass rules eight times,

935
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 1: all under GOP control. McCarthy has failed three times in

936
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:34,879
Speaker 1: the last eight months, including twice this week. Con Gradations,

937
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, you are our moment of Ourckeray. That's it

938
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 1: for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

939
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes

940
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,

941
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

942
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.