1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: crime all the time. It's Monday, December twenty ninth, and listen. 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: Our team is taking a little time off for the holidays, 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: but we wanted to revisit one of our most favorite shows. 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: We really hope you enjoy it. 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 2: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests, 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station, 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 2: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight. 9 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,919 Speaker 1: crime all the time. It's Thursday, September eighteenth. I'm Stephanie 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,319 Speaker 1: Leidecker and I head up KAT Studios, where we make 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: true crime podcasts and documentaries like the Idaho Student Murders 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: streaming now on Peacock or the Idaho Massacre of season 14 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: three Catch It now on iHeart and I get to 15 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: be here every night with Courtney Armstrong and move in. 16 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 3: So listen. 17 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: We're going a little off script tonight because we have 18 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: such a special guest, an extraordinary woman, here to talk 19 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: about resilience and inspiration and really how to get to 20 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: the other side of real trauma. Amanda Dox is with 21 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: us tonight for the full hour, So before we go 22 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: any further, Courtney a little setup of the story. 23 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 4: Amandaox's story is one of the most widely covered wrongful 24 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 4: conviction cases in modern history. In two thousand and seven, 25 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 4: while studying abroad in Perusia, Italy, her roommate Meredith Percher 26 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 4: was murdered. Amanda quickly became the focus of the investigation. 27 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 4: Language barriers, cultural misunderstandings, and a media firestorm turned her 28 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 4: life upside down. Amanda spent nearly four years in prison 29 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 4: and endured eight years of trials. Finally, before Italy Supreme Court, 30 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 4: she was acquitted of murder in twenty fifteen. Today, Amanda 31 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 4: is an advocate, journalist, and storyteller. 32 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 3: She is the. 33 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 4: Executive producer of The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, now 34 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 4: streaming on Hulu. She also hosts the podcast Hard Knocks. 35 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 4: Amanda serves as Advisory Council Chair for the Frederick Douglas 36 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 4: Project for Justice. She is an Innocence Network Ambassador and 37 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 4: sits on the board of the Innocent Center. Amanda Knox 38 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 4: is more than a survivor of injustice. She's a leading 39 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 4: voice for truth Accountability and Reform. 40 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 3: Welcome, Amanda Oox. We're so excited. We're so excited. 41 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: I get a little bit of a chill even hearing 42 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: this setup there. We all really remember your story so 43 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: much when it first happened, and really seeing you on 44 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: the other side is such an inspiration for all of us. 45 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: And as I was saying before we started the show, 46 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: our community and audience, we're all justice junkies, So you 47 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: have come to just the right place. We are your 48 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: people and we want to hear it all. So I mean, listen, 49 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 1: congratulations on the extraordinary show. Your Hulu scripted series is 50 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: a harrowing watch. If you haven't seen it, anyone, please do. 51 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: It's on Hulu and it is really dizzying almost you 52 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: really feel the chaos. 53 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 3: First of all, I love the actress so much who 54 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: plays you. 55 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, she's incredible. She really really takes just completely loses 56 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 5: herself in the part. And it's a hard part to 57 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 5: lose yourself in because she's playing you know, me at 58 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 5: twenty years old, she's playing me at thirty five years old. 59 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 5: As she's playing me at all stages of fluency and 60 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 5: Italian from none to everything. She worked her butt off 61 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 5: to perform this role, and I'm just so proud of 62 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 5: her and grateful to her. Yeah, it's been an incredible 63 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 5: time working with her. 64 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 3: It's an extraordinary watch too. 65 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: And to that end, I'm curious, you know, as an 66 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: executive producer, I mean, clearly, you're taking your narrative back. 67 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: You're telling your story through your own vision, which is. 68 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 3: Really extraordinary, and it does. 69 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: It has a vibe, it's cool, it's petrifying, it's all 70 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: of our worst nightmares, honestly. So I'm so curious just 71 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: watching your show from a different perspective, is there a 72 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: certain scene or something that while watching affected you in 73 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: a different way than you expected it to, because perspective 74 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: is such a powerful thing. 75 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 76 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 5: Well, I will say that working on this series has 77 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 5: been very different. It's been a very different experience for 78 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 5: me than the many other ways that I've attempted to 79 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 5: reclaim my story. Right, Like, I have been screaming from 80 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 5: the rooftops what my story has been since you know, 81 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 5: the early days of what was going on, and it's 82 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 5: been a very lonely battle trying to just prove my 83 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 5: innocence and be believed. But now working on this series, 84 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 5: I find myself a part of a community, like takes 85 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 5: a village to make a Hulu series, and so I 86 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 5: get to share the burden of telling this story with 87 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 5: others who just are coming from their own places, like 88 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 5: they have their own context for appreciating what happened to me, 89 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 5: and what happened, you know, to my roommate Meredith, what 90 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 5: happened to my co defendant and ex boyfriend Raphaela. Like 91 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 5: there's so many people whose lives were just irrevocably impacted 92 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 5: by the series of events that took place in Italy, 93 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 5: and I think that one of the things that we 94 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 5: all had in mind was really trying to get it 95 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 5: right after so much of the telling of it was 96 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 5: so wrong and so exploitative and so scandalous and really 97 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 5: like lost track of what even the truth was for 98 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 5: the sake of that scandal, And so everyone was really 99 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 5: really intent on getting it right from a factual standpoint, 100 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 5: but also getting it right from an emotive standpoint. And 101 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 5: for me, there are so many beautiful scenes that really 102 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 5: matter to me in this series, everything from the kind 103 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 5: like a lot of the series is about human connection 104 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 5: and how we come together and how we are torn 105 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 5: apart and what are the forces that do that. But 106 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 5: as an advocate, like as somebody now who is devoting 107 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 5: a significant amount of my energy and time to trying 108 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 5: to change the system that we all rely on, the 109 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,239 Speaker 5: justice system that we rely on, for the better based 110 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 5: upon what I've learned from my own experience, The biggest 111 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 5: scene that I was most concerned about getting right from 112 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 5: both a factual and emotive standpoint was the interrogation scene, 113 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 5: which is an episode two, and it's an intense scene, 114 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 5: and it's something that I was nervous going into this 115 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 5: because I knew that I was the only person, the 116 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 5: only person in this entire village of people who had 117 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 5: ever been interrogated before. And also I had gone through 118 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 5: my entire adult life being not believed and not just 119 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 5: not believed about what happened to me, but also blamed, 120 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 5: like I was criminally charged for how I like what 121 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 5: happened in my interrogation, where I was absolutely at the 122 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 5: mercy of the police officers, And so I think, maybe 123 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 5: just from a trauma standpoint, like I was really concerned 124 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 5: about making sure that my partners in this process understood 125 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 5: what this experience was like for me, so they could 126 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 5: represent that on screen. And part of the challenge was, 127 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 5: I mean, there were many challenges. One of the challenges 128 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 5: was that my approach to this telling of the story 129 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 5: has very much been grounded in the idea that there 130 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 5: are no black and white villains, right. That is, it 131 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 5: is so important for understanding how wrongful convictions happen to 132 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 5: not turn it into a black and white narrative where 133 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 5: there's a victim and a villain and a hero and 134 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 5: nothing in between. And there are cases of like egregious 135 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 5: cases of wrongful conviction where the police knew exactly what 136 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 5: they were doing and they were framing me incent people. 137 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 5: But that's not what I believe happened in my case, 138 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 5: and that's not what happens in so many wrongful convention cases. 139 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 5: What really happens is that police officers and prosecutors convince 140 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 5: themselves of the guilt of an innocent person and then 141 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 5: pursue a case against them with confirmation bias, like cherry 142 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 5: picking evidence to make a person seem guilty, ignoring evidence 143 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 5: that exonerates them, and finding excuses to justify their preconceived ideas. 144 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 5: And so that's what I believed happened, and that was 145 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 5: something that I wanted to convey. I wanted people who 146 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 5: watched this series to feel like, no matter whose shoes 147 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 5: they were stepping into, they could appreciate how that person's 148 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 5: mind was working. And so in the interrogation room, you 149 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 5: have a lot of people, and there's a lot of 150 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 5: conflict happening, not just even between me and the interrogators, 151 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 5: but even amongst the interrogators. There are those who are 152 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 5: trying to be gentle with me, trying to coax me. 153 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 5: There are those who are being really aggressive towards me. 154 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 5: Everyone is coming to that scenario, you know, exhausted, having 155 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 5: already worked overtime numerous days. There's the language barrier, there's 156 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 5: the media, the media pressure, and so everyone is coming 157 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 5: into that scenario not their best self and trying to 158 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 5: like convey that dynamic, that psychological dynamic between all of 159 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 5: these different forces and how they collide and the dramatic 160 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 5: and tragic outcome that arises was really important to me. 161 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 5: And then the other thing that was important to me, 162 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 5: and you know, even as we were filming, we didn't 163 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 5: really have a clear plan for how to portray this. 164 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 5: You know, you see interrogation scenes on TV, but you've 165 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 5: never seen what it feels like for the defendant, how 166 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 5: they are encouraged to imagine things that didn't actually happen. 167 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 5: How do you convey what's happening inside the mind of 168 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 5: the person who's being interrogated. 169 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: You spoke very little Italian too, right, this is exactly language, 170 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: oh one hundred percent. 171 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 5: There was cultural barriers, language barriers. And then of course 172 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 5: there's this this idea that they're implanting in my mind 173 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 5: at the time that I'm trying to make sense of 174 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 5: as I'm like blurring memories into each other to try 175 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 5: to make them make sense after they tell me I 176 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 5: have trauma induced amnesia. Like, there's so much going on 177 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 5: from a psychological standpoint, and I really wanted to get 178 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 5: it right so that people could actually put themselves in 179 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 5: the shoes of somebody who not only is being interrogated, 180 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 5: but who falsely confessed. Because so many that's like a 181 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 5: huge contributing factor to wrongful convictions and it's so prejudicial. 182 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 5: People just do not understand how an innocent person could 183 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 5: be compelled to testify against themselves or others if they're innocent, 184 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 5: And so that was something that I needed to get right, 185 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 5: and I really feel like we did get it right? 186 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 6: You did? 187 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 5: Yeah, like you guys tell me like how I'm. 188 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 3: Very familiar with the read technique and I'm recognize it immediately, 189 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 3: and I thought that it did. It was such a 190 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 3: good visual example of the confusion and the sleep deprivation 191 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 3: and everything that they were implanting in you. You know, 192 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 3: it was just a really really well done scene. I 193 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 3: think when we were going over the questions earlier, I 194 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 3: kind of implanted in my own brain, I think that 195 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 3: it's going to be episode two that she answers with 196 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 3: and yeah, I think you did a really good job, 197 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 3: really good job. 198 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 5: Well, thank you. 199 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 3: Yeah. 200 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 5: And but of course there were tons of other scenes 201 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 5: that were so you know, beautiful and personal, Like have 202 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 5: you guys seen all of the episodes yet? Did you 203 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 5: guys get screener like. 204 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 3: All the ones that are out? Yeah, all the ones 205 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 3: that are out? 206 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 5: So you don't have the final two episodes? 207 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 3: No, no, no, we're not back home yet. There's those spoilers. 208 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, No, how it ends. I won't tell you how 209 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 5: it ends. I will say that I did co write 210 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 5: the final episode with showrunner, and so I'm very excited 211 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 5: for people to see that. Obviously. Wow, and it's where 212 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 5: a lot of really personal, like the stakes of the 213 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 5: story really become clear. You know. There is that sort 214 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 5: of promised confrontation between me and my prosecutor that is 215 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 5: teased in the first episode, but there's also like a 216 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 5: final confrontation between me and raphael A, which is very beautiful. 217 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 5: You know, like there's a lot of really good, it's good, 218 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 5: it's well written episode, if I say so for myself. 219 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 5: So stay tuned. 220 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 3: I mean, we can't wait. 221 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, talking about like tooking pain and making that your purpose, right, 222 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: So here you are. You get to tell the tale 223 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: in the way that you want to, twisted as it 224 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: may be. But to be on the other side of 225 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: that is extremely major. And yeah, body's been talking about 226 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: this read technique for a while and it's important stuff 227 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: to sort of be able to. 228 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 3: Know what do you do in that situation? 229 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, well it's it's kind of a trap, is the problem, 230 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 5: and that unfortunately, when the police have decided that they 231 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 5: are going to get you to confess, there really is 232 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 5: no way out. The only way out is to be 233 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 5: quiet and to ask for an attorney. That's that's it, and. 234 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 3: It's that's it. 235 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 5: It's a trap and it's designed to be a trap 236 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 5: and that's what's And you're are in. 237 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 3: Another country, you know, like what are your rights? And 238 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 3: you don't know everything, and like you know, at least 239 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 3: if it were here, you wouldn't know what to do me. 240 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 3: Maybe I don't even know if you would, I would 241 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 3: not know what to do here. 242 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 5: No, I mean, and I was twenty, I had any 243 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 5: experience with any Yeah, you're young, much less the Italian or. 244 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 3: Just a baby, your baby over there, you know, and 245 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 3: it's horrifying. And then you got the language barrier on 246 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 3: top of it. Again, you're deprived of sleep, you just 247 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 3: want to go, You just want it to end. So 248 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 3: at some point you're willing to basically say anything just 249 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 3: to get out of that room. Yeah, right, And it's 250 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 3: I just think that that scene in episode two again, 251 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 3: please watch it. It's The Twisted Tail of Amanda Knox. 252 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 3: It's on Hulu and it's really that scene. Just there 253 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 3: was another scene that is in episode one, and it's 254 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 3: when Meredith is discovered and the actress plays you grace. 255 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,599 Speaker 3: She the camera kind of zooms in on her and 256 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 3: everything goes quiet, and it's really chaotic. It gives me 257 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 3: the chills because it's kind of like you kind of 258 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 3: get the impression that everything is it's finally coming down, 259 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 3: like you realize what's happening, and it's just it's a 260 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 3: terrifying moment in the episode, and I thought that was 261 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 3: really well done as well. 262 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 4: But great job, absolutely very impactful. And listen, stick around 263 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 4: because coming up we get to continue our conversation with 264 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 4: Amanda Knox and we'll be discussing everything from here to there. 265 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 4: Keep it here true crime tonight. We are talking true 266 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 4: crime all the time, and. 267 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: Tonight we are very pleased to announce that we have 268 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: Amanda Knox with us to tell us her tale of 269 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: survival and resilience. Obviously, we've been talking a lot about 270 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: your dramatic series, The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, and 271 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: we really encourage everyone to watch it because again, you're 272 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: the executive producer and you've been able to tell your 273 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: story your way, and it's really extraordinary because even the 274 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: nuanced performances and just the look of it, it does 275 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: set a stage and suddenly you're reminded you were twenty 276 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: years old. These are the most harrowing scenarios a young 277 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: woman could be in and looking at you right now, 278 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: I mean to be on the other side of it. 279 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: Can we just say she has aged? How is that possible? 280 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: All I want to do isn't care about your musing. Yeah, 281 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: I honestly like you have not aged, and it's pretty extraordinary. 282 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: And that's while under a ton of stress. So uh. 283 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 3: I mean, when you. 284 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 5: Look closer, you would see quite a few straggly gray hairs. 285 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 3: That's okay, well, well learns. Yeah. 286 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: I always try to say that all of our wrinkles, 287 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: you know what, we earned them, hopefully with some smiles 288 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: at least. But no, it's really a joy to have 289 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: you and just to hear your perspective, because listen, we've 290 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: all followed your case, you know, for so so long, 291 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: and it really was one of the biggest cases, probably 292 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: of the twenty first century, right, I don't think I'm 293 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: overstating that. And as a young woman now years later, 294 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: looking back in hindsight, I'm sure you're pretty protective of 295 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: the twenty year old version of you. I mean, imagine 296 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: just being in this scenario for the very first time, 297 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: and not speaking the language, and experiencing something really traumatic, 298 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: and then being wrongfully accused and a trial, and then 299 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: suddenly the headlines that come with that. No one's really 300 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: prepared for that to the extent that you had to 301 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: face it head on, and it's nothing shy of inspiring times. 302 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 3: Ten, let's say that. 303 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 5: You know, I can't take full credit for everything, because 304 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 5: I certainly wasn't alone, Like my family absolutely came immediately 305 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 5: to my defense, my friends as well, Like I was 306 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 5: alone in the sense that no one was there to 307 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 5: hold my hand in prison. That was certainly a really 308 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 5: difficult part of the experience, was being isolated from everyone. 309 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 5: I loved that way, and especially as the case kept 310 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 5: going and then I was convicted did in spacing you know, 311 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 5: decades in prison, and I definitely had a moment there 312 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 5: where I was afraid that as hard as my family 313 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 5: was trying to save me and to make me feel 314 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 5: like I belonged with them, I was on this path 315 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 5: that was just taking me further and further away from them, 316 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 5: you know, my life, Like I was stacking up life 317 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 5: experiences that were alienating to them. They didn't know what 318 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 5: it was like to be strip searched on a regular 319 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 5: basis and to be surrounded by traumatized people all day long, 320 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 5: and to be vilified viciously in an international media. So like, yeah, 321 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 5: in ways, I was very alone, but I was never 322 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 5: made to feel like some of the other prisoners that 323 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 5: I countered in prison, like a big difference between me 324 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 5: and them that which made me feel like I was 325 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 5: so profoundly lucky compared to them, despite being like the 326 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 5: innocent person in a prison and full of mostly guilty people. 327 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 5: I felt like I was profoundly lucky compared to them 328 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,719 Speaker 5: because I was love like that I at no point 329 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 5: in my experience, and this is something that I truly 330 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 5: attribute my ability to survive. This is the fact that 331 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 5: from as long as I can remember, my mom instilled 332 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,959 Speaker 5: in me this deep, deep knowledge that I mattered and 333 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 5: that I was love. And so even when the whole 334 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 5: world turned against me and absolutely was communicating to me 335 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 5: that the truth didn't matter and that I didn't matter, 336 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 5: I never lost sight of like that deep, like visceral 337 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 5: truth that I did matter and the truth did matter. 338 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 5: And so you know, I didn't give up in the 339 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 5: way that I saw a lot of people around me 340 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 5: who had lives of abuse and neglect and poverty and exploitation, 341 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 5: like the vast majority of the women that I was 342 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 5: imprisoned with were victims of crime before they ever became 343 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 5: criminals themselves, like, and they were by and large forgotten 344 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 5: by the people in their life, abandon betrayed, And so 345 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 5: I felt like that was something that really what became 346 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 5: very clear to me after I was removed from isolation 347 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 5: and put into gen pop that there was a big 348 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 5: difference between me and the rest of my community and 349 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 5: that was the most important thing. 350 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 4: That's so as harrowing as that is, that's such an 351 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 4: inspiring thing for people to sort of take in the 352 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 4: importance of having instilled in. 353 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 3: You that you are important, that you matter, that all 354 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 3: of the matter. 355 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, people ask me now, like what can 356 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 5: I tell my kid to like, you know, if bad 357 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 5: things happen to us all in life, what is the 358 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 5: biggest lesson that I can convey to my kid? What 359 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,479 Speaker 5: is the thing? And like, it's so simple. It's just 360 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 5: that they matter, that they matter. That's it. If your 361 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 5: kid knows that they matter, they can survive anything. 362 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 3: Because that's what got you through at all. 363 00:19:58,720 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 5: That's what got me. 364 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 3: Mattered. Truth mattered, and your story was important, the truth. 365 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 5: But if you feel if you feel like deep down 366 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 5: you don't matter, well no, yeah, I'm sorry, I don't 367 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 5: know if I'm allowed to sweat. 368 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, You've already paid your dues. I think it's yeah. 369 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 3: Let it rip, baby, let it rip. This is True 370 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,479 Speaker 3: Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm body Movin and I'm here 371 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 3: with Stephanieleidecker and Courtney Armstrong and we are so lucky 372 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 3: enough to be joined by Amanda Knox and she's talking 373 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 3: about her new scripted drama. It is on Hulu. It's 374 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 3: called The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox and Amanda, We're 375 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 3: just so happy that you're here, and we just really 376 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 3: appreciate it. Courtney, you mentioned that you wanted to talk 377 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 3: about this villain hero situation. Did you want to? Yeah? 378 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 4: I just I love that you said that earlier, and 379 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 4: it really comes across like there are nuances and people 380 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 4: that I began to I won't use the word hate, 381 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 4: but you really dislike watching it. Then I got to 382 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 4: see their perspective. So how important was that, you know, 383 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 4: as an executive producer just putting that together and deciding, okay, 384 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 4: we should do perspectives and here are the people whose 385 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 4: perspective we should do. 386 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 3: What was that like? Because it's very effective? 387 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 5: I mean that was fundamental to the making of this show. 388 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 5: From the very beginning. I was always saying, like, I 389 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 5: am not going to participate in the way that these 390 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 5: stories are typically told, which is again this very black 391 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 5: and white perspective of here's the villain, here's the victim, 392 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 5: here's the hero. Like, that's not what that's how my 393 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 5: story has been told wrong for that so long, and 394 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 5: I think that it does a disservice to the truth. 395 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 5: Which again, the truth matters, and I am not in 396 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 5: the business of committing the same kinds of mistakes that 397 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 5: were committed towards me. So as we approach the story 398 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 5: and we recognize that mistakes were made and that harm 399 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 5: was done, we have to give the benefit of the 400 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 5: doubt to everyone involved. We have to view the set 401 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 5: of facts through a humanistic lens, and that, like, it 402 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 5: was a radical choice that was very difficult at times, 403 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 5: Like one of those characters is the person who murdered 404 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 5: my roommate, right, And if I had extra like when 405 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 5: we were originally envisioning telling this story, I like had 406 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 5: so many more episodes in my head than what we 407 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 5: actually had in real life, because like, you know, how 408 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 5: in the show we have an episode where you see, 409 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 5: like we give a little Ameilee history of Amanda, we 410 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 5: give a little Ameilee history of Raphaela, we give a 411 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 5: little Ameile history to Minnini. I originally wanted there to 412 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 5: be also an Amele history of Meredith and an Amelee 413 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 5: history of Rudigade and really, oh yeah, perfect storm, Yeah, exactly, 414 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 5: the perfect storm of these these people who came together 415 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 5: in a moment in their lives in this like perfect 416 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 5: crisis point. And like again, if I had had more 417 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 5: time in this show, I would have shown like how 418 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 5: you know Rudy Gaday the person who raped and murdered 419 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 5: my roommate, he was spiraling like he was a young 420 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 5: person who had been torn away from his mother at 421 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 5: a young age, then abandoned by his father, had been 422 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 5: you know, hopping around from Foster Home to Foster home, 423 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 5: got into trouble, was breaking, you know, breaking and entering, 424 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 5: was stealing things, was spiraling, and then he committed this crime. 425 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 5: And one of the things that we do show in 426 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 5: the series is that this the crime could have been avoided. 427 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 5: Right like five days before Rudy Gidek committed this crime, 428 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 5: he was arrested for having broken and entered into a 429 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 5: different place, and he was in possession of stolen goods, 430 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 5: and he was in possession of a knife five days 431 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 5: before this crime occurred, and if he had been I 432 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 5: don't know. To this day, I still do not understand, 433 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 5: And there has never been a good answer out there 434 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 5: for why he was just released and not actually held 435 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 5: accountable to this crime. But like the consequences, five days later, 436 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 5: he broke into my house and murdered my roommate. And 437 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 5: none of this would have happened if something had intervened 438 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 5: in his life too. 439 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: So you know, you say that you know grace, and 440 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: you took the words literally about it, even as always 441 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 1: I was literally just going to ask, like, as you 442 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: say that, I almost get a little like chilled them 443 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: the level of grace that's required to see you right 444 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: now even speaking about the man who committed the murder 445 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: that you were accused of. Friendly reminder, twenty years old, 446 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: living in a New Land, having like the greatest you know, 447 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: Italian adventure and you know, a love adventure and record scratch, 448 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: life got really real and you know, where do you 449 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: find the grace now so many years later to forgive, 450 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: you know, not to spoil the ending. But we know 451 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: the prosecutor who really wanted you behind bars. 452 00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 3: Is somebody that you've really come to terms with. 453 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: And even this killer you describe his backstory and his 454 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: origin story with compassion. 455 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 456 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 5: Well, I mean again, it goes back to the fact 457 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 5: that the truth matters, right, Like all of that that 458 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 5: I just told you about the person who murdered my 459 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 5: roommate and then subsequently went on to blame me for it, 460 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 5: and you know, and now it's for sexually assaulting another 461 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 5: person after he got out of prison. Like this is 462 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 5: clearly a very troubled person who had a very troubled past. 463 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 5: And a lot of people ask me if I like 464 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 5: set out to forgive my prosecutor or, to forgive, you know, 465 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 5: the person who committed this crime. And it wasn't about 466 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 5: forgiveness for me. I didn't have some spiritual awakening and 467 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 5: I was like, I gotta forgive these people. That wasn't it. 468 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 5: I just wanted to understand why. I wanted to understand 469 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 5: why this happened. And understanding why this happened from a 470 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 5: very honest standpoint requires you to come into contact with 471 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 5: uncomfortable truths, unfortunate truths, and those it's uncomfortable to realize 472 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 5: that people who commit egregious harm are also people, right, 473 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 5: But it's true, and that's how you Just Like for me, 474 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 5: as somebody who cares about being an effective person in 475 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 5: the world, I believe that the only way that you 476 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 5: can be effective is to acknowledge what is true. Like 477 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 5: if I just in my brain wrote off both of 478 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 5: these two men as evil, I would approach them and 479 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,719 Speaker 5: I would approach the world with a completely different mindset, 480 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 5: but it would be a mindset that I don't think 481 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 5: would be ultimately effective. I wouldn't be actually interacting with 482 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 5: the world as it is and with people as they are, 483 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 5: So instead I choose to acknowledge how they really are, 484 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 5: which is fragile people, and then decide what to do. 485 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 4: You're a really evolved human being, I have to say, 486 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 4: like you're saying, I wish I was just gonna. 487 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 3: Say, oh my god, because like it's so easy to 488 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 3: hate and tell the story like from only your perspective 489 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 3: and say that you have so yeah, and them it's 490 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 3: their fault and you know whatever. But you really are 491 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 3: an evolved person, right, Like you're telling all sides of 492 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 3: the story. It's just I'm very impressed, and I'm very 493 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 3: hard to impress, So like I am, you know, it's 494 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 3: done and body movement, stamp of approval. 495 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, underline, exclamation point, end of story. 496 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 3: Wow. So yeah, because I just don't you guys think 497 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 3: it's just so much easier to tell only your side 498 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,959 Speaker 3: and you know, say, you know I was a victim, 499 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 3: right I was, then, and just tell that story instead 500 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 3: of telling like a more nuanced. 501 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: On Hulu the Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, and it 502 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: is really good and harrowing and emotional and checks all 503 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: of the boxes and scary. You know, we were talking 504 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: about it during the break. I think the idea of 505 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: being imprisoned, especially for some crime you didn't commit, and 506 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 1: feeling like no one's listening to you and you're getting buried, 507 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: and other people's shame and guilt and confusion, and you know, 508 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: there's a time probably where you just want to call 509 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,719 Speaker 1: it because you must feel hopeless, but somehow you just 510 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: push through mentally. Any tricks or any takeaway from that 511 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: that we should be aware of. 512 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's a big takeaway from the series. And 513 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 5: you'll see more of this also in the next two 514 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 5: episodes that come out because they show me out of prison, 515 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 5: but still very much like you said, like buried beneath 516 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 5: this story, buried beneath the stigmas, accusation defined by an 517 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 5: ordeal that I ultimately didn't have any agency and I 518 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,239 Speaker 5: didn't do anything right. But in terms of like the 519 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 5: prison of it all, like even the most recent episode, 520 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 5: it was a turning point for me, Like there was 521 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 5: this existential crisis that I experienced after I received the 522 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 5: verdict where it was like, oh my god, I'm not 523 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 5: like in this state of limbo where I'm fighting to 524 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 5: get my life back. This is my life and I 525 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 5: know it's not about me going home. Prison is my 526 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 5: life home. So given that fact, what do I do 527 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 5: with that? Now what? And it was the first step 528 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 5: of this like long process of acceptance. That was something 529 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 5: that I instinctively rebelled against because you know, here I 530 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 5: am living a life that isn't fair. But you know, 531 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 5: tough reality check, none of us are living lives that 532 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 5: are fair. Like sort of universal message is we're all 533 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 5: living lives that are not fair. There are all of 534 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 5: us had elements of our lives that we do not 535 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 5: have any control over. And so now what, like just 536 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 5: those things that are there, that are real, that you 537 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 5: have to contend with. Being in denial of them does 538 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 5: not make you an effective agent in your own life. 539 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 5: So if you want to have some kind of fulfilling 540 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 5: purpose in your life, you have to start by accepting 541 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 5: the premises, like the premises that you can't avoid. And 542 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 5: for me, in that moment of conviction, it was I'm 543 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 5: going to spend at least another several years, if not 544 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 5: decades in prison. So what do I do? Well, I 545 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 5: start looking around me and notice that there is opportunity 546 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 5: even here. Here is a place where, like I said 547 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 5: in an earlier segment, I'm actually one of the lucky ones. 548 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 5: Like not only am I loved, but I am healthy, 549 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 5: and I'm educated, and I can read and write. A 550 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 5: lot of the people around me could not read or write. 551 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 5: I can speak Italian and English. At this point, a 552 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 5: lot of the people that I was imprisoned with were 553 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 5: foreigners and could not speak Italian. And so they call 554 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 5: it a hustle in prison, But it's like a purpose. 555 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 5: Like I had a job. It was not an official job. 556 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 5: I was not paid to do this job, but I 557 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 5: was the translator, I was the scribe. I help people 558 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 5: read their court documents. I helped them write letters to 559 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 5: their family, I helped them communicate their ailments to the doctors. 560 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 5: It was something that I could do, so I did it, 561 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 5: and it gave you know, be careful what you wish for. 562 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 5: I did go to Italy to become a translator, and like. 563 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 7: Whoops, here I was translator and you know, like it 564 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 7: did it make up for the fact that I was 565 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 7: in prison for something I didn't do, No, of course, 566 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 7: but it certainly wasn't just laying in bed crying my 567 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 7: eyes out every day. 568 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 5: Like it was something that gave me purpose. And then 569 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 5: once you gain purpose, once you gain momentum in your life, 570 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 5: you can it's a mental shift. And I think that 571 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 5: was something that I had to relearn once I got 572 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 5: out of prison. And you know, I don't again don't 573 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 5: want to spoil alert anything but the ultimate sort of 574 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 5: takeaways of my story, there are a number of them, 575 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 5: but one of them is that to be an effective 576 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 5: person in your own life, you have to accept the 577 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 5: premises like these are the conditions of your life. Now 578 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 5: what now do something with them. You can't change them, 579 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 5: you can't change the past, you can't change who you are. 580 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 5: You can't get into other people's minds and make them 581 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 5: think different things. So given all of that, what can 582 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 5: you do? Don't waste your time obsessing about what you 583 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 5: can't do. 584 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 3: I just wanted to remind our listeners about your story 585 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 3: if it's okay, very quickly sure. In two thousand and seven, 586 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 3: Amanda Knox she was a college student in Italy when 587 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,959 Speaker 3: her roommate, Meredith Pircher was murdered. Knox and her boyfriend 588 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 3: were accused, launching years of sensational headlines and courtroom battles. 589 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 3: She was convicted, acquitted, and reconvicted before Italy's highest court 590 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 3: finally cleared her in twenty fifteen. After nearly four years 591 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 3: behind bars, she returned home and now she's speaking out 592 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 3: about justice, wrongful convictions, hope, and the power of media spins. 593 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 3: So please continue, Amanda, I did not want to interrupt you, 594 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 3: but please continue. 595 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, no. I just wanted to say that 596 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 5: the other big takeaway that I hope people get from 597 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 5: watching the show is, you know, arriving at that universal 598 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 5: truth of feeling like they can regain agency in their 599 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 5: own lives in this way, but also the power of 600 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 5: human can like one of the biggest stories of this 601 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 5: series and of my life. I feel like, is my 602 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 5: attempt to communicate myself to the man who accused me 603 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 5: of a horrific crime and who felt justified in throwing 604 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 5: me in prison and asking me to stay there for 605 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 5: the rest of my life? How do I communicate with 606 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 5: this person? And I really do feel like in a way, 607 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 5: we were set up to not be able to communicate 608 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 5: with each other because the justice system is so adversarial. 609 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 5: And my approach then became, well, if I am in 610 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 5: a condition that is adversarial, of course we're not going 611 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 5: to communicate with each other. He's going to dig in 612 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 5: his heels. I'm going to stand up for myself, and 613 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 5: no communication, no understanding, is going to happen. So what 614 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 5: if I tried. I don't like put aside or pretend 615 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 5: that the bad thing didn't happen, But what if it 616 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 5: is possible to find common ground even with your worst adversary? 617 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 5: Like what could happen? And Like, I'm a curious enough 618 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,959 Speaker 5: person that I was driven, I was compelled to be like, 619 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 5: what will happen? I know what's going to happen if 620 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 5: I don't. I know what's going to happen. If I 621 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 5: just hold it against him forever, nothing's going to happen. 622 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 5: So what if I do the opposite? What if I 623 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 5: try to find common ground? What if I try to 624 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 5: seek an ally in my adversary? What would happen? Then? 625 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 5: Maybe I fail, but maybe I don't. And that's what 626 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 5: the series also is about, which I was a cool 627 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 5: story for these days and ages. 628 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: I'll say, I was just gonna say that's time lately 629 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: right now. It's a real universal truth. The world changes, 630 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: you change with it, period. 631 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 5: And everyone's evolving, everyone's a process. 632 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, what Amanda in all of this? 633 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 4: And really you're sort of empathy And also I love 634 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 4: how you talked about the translating and helping the women 635 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 4: that you were with, because it didn't seem like you 636 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 4: had a lot of help. 637 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 5: There was no I did not have any help. I 638 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 5: had to teach myself Italian with Harry Potter and a dictionary. 639 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, Yeah, well well done. If I could 640 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 3: say that Italian to. 641 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 5: The fact that no one was speaking English and I 642 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 5: just had to figure it out. 643 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 4: Kind of when did you decide I'm going to become 644 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 4: an advocate? 645 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 3: Like, what was there a point. 646 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 5: You know, that's a really fun question, because that was 647 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,320 Speaker 5: not what I was intending when I got out of prison. 648 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 5: I really just wanted to go back to being an 649 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 5: anonymous college student, and I first had to come into 650 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 5: the realization that that was not possible for me because 651 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 5: I was continuing to be stalked by media and you know, 652 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 5: people recognized me constantly. I couldn't make friends, you know, 653 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 5: like people were texting about me in class and posting 654 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 5: pictures of me, and so I couldn't just go back 655 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 5: to being an anonymous person. I spent a lot of 656 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 5: time feeling really isolated and exiled, like here I am 657 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 5: in the free world, but I don't belie long anywhere. 658 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 5: I don't belong to anyone, and I was really struggling. 659 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 5: And it wasn't until my mom forcibly took me to 660 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 5: something called the Innocence Network Conference, which is an annual 661 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 5: gathering of innocence projects throughout the world that here in 662 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 5: the United States, and I met other wrongly convicted people, 663 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:25,399 Speaker 5: and I just got a glimpse, a glimpse of how 664 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 5: my story and what I'd went through played a role 665 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 5: in this much bigger story about justice and about our institutions, 666 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 5: And you know, I didn't know anything, Like I was 667 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 5: not a true crime fanatic before all of this happened 668 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 5: to me, So I knew nothing. I knew absolutely nothing 669 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 5: about the criminal justice system. And then I met person 670 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 5: after person after person who had gone who had been 671 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 5: interrogated and falls to confessed, people who had eyewitnesses point out, 672 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 5: or people have been tortured by the police, like people 673 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 5: who had spent decades longer prison than I had, and 674 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 5: here in the United States, And I realized that this 675 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 5: was a much more pervasive problem than I realized, and 676 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 5: that how could nobody know about this? How could I 677 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 5: grow up entirely oblivious to this fact? 678 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 3: Right? 679 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 5: And I realized that I was in this really unique position, 680 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,919 Speaker 5: like as much as I had to deal with global vilification, 681 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 5: I was recognized as a person who had gone through 682 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 5: the justice system. And over time, more and more people 683 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 5: were recognizing that I was actually innocent, and I was 684 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 5: proof of what had been happening all along. You know, 685 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 5: I didn't look like the vast majority of people get 686 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 5: wrongly convicted. Most people are men, most people are men 687 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 5: of minorities, most people are men who are poor. And 688 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 5: I was not like that I was a middle class, 689 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 5: college educated white girl from the suburbs and it happened 690 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 5: to me, and so in a way, I was like 691 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 5: proof that there was something wrong. 692 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 3: With the system exactly. 693 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 5: And it wasn't just an Italian problem. This was a 694 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 5: global problem. And the ways that I was wrongly convicted 695 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 5: are ways that we wrongly convict people here in the 696 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 5: United States. And once that became clear to me, I 697 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 5: was like, I have to say something. And a lot 698 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 5: of people ask me, like, why didn't you become a 699 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 5: lawyer or whatever, And it's like I could go to 700 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 5: the rest of my life without ever going into a 701 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 5: courtroom ember again. But I am a writer and I 702 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 5: am a storyteller, and this is my skill set, and 703 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 5: so I can take what I know now about what 704 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 5: happened to me and what happened to other people, and 705 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 5: I can share it with an audience who wouldn't otherwise 706 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 5: think that any of this would be relevant to them. 707 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 5: And that's really important to me, and it's and it's 708 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 5: made it's made me feel purposeful all over again. I 709 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 5: feel like I'm a translator all over again. Right, I'm 710 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 5: not translating language, I'm translating experience. Right here, it feels like. 711 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 3: But it's so great too. 712 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 4: I mean, just the awareness because like you said, how 713 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 4: do you not know about this? None of us do. 714 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 4: People there isn't enough awareness. And also just the connection 715 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,439 Speaker 4: that you're talking about of you know, when you went 716 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 4: to that day that your mom brought you to the 717 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 4: conference and met other people. 718 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,439 Speaker 3: It's unbelievable. It's almost like kis men. Yeah, for sure, 719 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,839 Speaker 3: it's meant to be because now you're right, you're translating 720 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 3: your experience to regular people who are turning on their 721 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 3: TV to watch a television show, and maybe they're going 722 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 3: to be open, their eyes will be open. Like like 723 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 3: you said, this can happen to anyone, you know, even 724 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 3: here in the United States, and in fact a lot 725 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 3: of the times here in the United States. So kudos 726 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,720 Speaker 3: to you. Congratulations on that. That's fabulous. Thanks, You're welcome. 727 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 1: I know we're reading low on time, so Coritney's going 728 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: to take us out. But is there one tip we 729 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,720 Speaker 1: all want to know. What's the one thing to anybody 730 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: who wants to go to a different country as a 731 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,359 Speaker 1: young person to explore the world. I know where your 732 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: embassy is, what is the. 733 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 5: Here's the thing like to this day. It haunts me. 734 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 5: How you know, Meredith did everything right right, Like she 735 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,720 Speaker 5: never went out alone at night, She called her parents 736 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 5: every single day, and even so this happened to her. 737 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 5: That isn't to say that you shouldn't go study abroad 738 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 5: like everyone. Of course, go study abroad like it's a 739 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 5: beautiful experience and it's very life affirming. But at the 740 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 5: same time, you should know that you are vulnerable, just 741 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 5: like we all are in the world. And so when 742 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,760 Speaker 5: something feels off, when you don't feel safe, don't ignore 743 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,839 Speaker 5: that feeling, like always asking you all time, and to 744 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 5: ask for help and trust your gut and hope for 745 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 5: the best. 746 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 4: Well, that's advice everyone can use in pretty much every 747 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,839 Speaker 4: aspect of life. Amanda, we thank you so so much 748 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,760 Speaker 4: for joining us tonight. It is such a great pleasure 749 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,840 Speaker 4: and honor and we've been so excited everyone. Amanda is 750 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 4: the executive producer of The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox. 751 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 4: It is streaming now on Hulu. Watch it, you will 752 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 4: love it. It's almost a guarantee. Amanda is also the 753 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 4: host of the Hard Knocks podcast and the author of 754 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 4: Free My Search for Meaning. 755 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:13,760 Speaker 3: So one more thank you for your advice stick around 756 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 3: true crime tonight. 757 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeart Radio. Man, 758 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 1: we are talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie 759 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 1: Leidecker and I head of KAT Studios, where we make 760 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: true crime podcasts and documentaries. And I get to be 761 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 1: here with Courtney Armstrong and body move in. And if 762 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: you're not feeling inspired, then come on, what more. 763 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 3: Do you need? 764 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: It's so telling, you know, again, Amanda Knox here to 765 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:53,720 Speaker 1: confirm that extraordinary humans often are built from really tough times. 766 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 3: And boy does she walk the talk. Yeah, and her 767 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 3: message could not come at a better time, Like the 768 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,839 Speaker 3: whole thing about the the in the boundaries you can 769 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 3: still you know, have empathy for people and hear them 770 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 3: out like this is what we need to hear right now, 771 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 3: in my opinion, Like it's just so timely. And you know, 772 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 3: I am inspired one hundred million percent, no, no bs, 773 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 3: I am. I feel good. 774 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: It's so interesting you say that, because yeah, at this time, 775 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,400 Speaker 1: more than ever I love. I also said that, like, 776 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 1: you know, both things can be We talk about this 777 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,719 Speaker 1: a lot. Both things can be true, Like you can 778 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: be mad about something or you've been victimized by something 779 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: and at the same time, parallel, you're still able to 780 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: put yourself in somebody else's shoes and try to imagine 781 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: their perspective as a human. 782 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's that's the real deal. She's the 783 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:43,360 Speaker 3: real deal. 784 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,279 Speaker 1: Well is well, thank you again Amanda Knox for joining 785 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 1: us tonight. If you haven't watched her Hulu series, The 786 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,719 Speaker 1: Twisted Tail of Amanda Knox, please do what a great 787 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: setup you just got and listen. We still have like 788 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: a half a night left of tadline, so come on, 789 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: you know, please call us eight a' eight three one 790 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: crime if you want to join the conversation or leave 791 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: us a talk back. We love to get those, or 792 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: you could always hit us up in our socials at 793 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 1: True Crime Tonight show on Instagram and Facebook, or at 794 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:14,320 Speaker 1: True Crime Tonight. 795 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 3: I think I confuse those who cares right there. 796 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: Many too many, too many, So listen, let's get back 797 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: to the basics. Here, a little bro coburger update, no 798 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: crank coburger. Well, you know, there's not really a big update. 799 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: It's just that the investigation so remember the video that 800 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: came out of him in prison. 801 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 3: Of course, yes, of course, washing like the washing and yeah, 802 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 3: looking at the TV in that little cage and he's 803 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 3: just kind of an awkward and there's we kind of 804 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,400 Speaker 3: realized it was like in this medical housing unit prior 805 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 3: to him getting his assignment in the j block where 806 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 3: he's at now with Chad Dabel, you know, and everything. Well, 807 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,719 Speaker 3: they're still investigating, they're still investigating how this video made 808 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 3: it out, and there's been no updates. And that's the update. 809 00:43:59,400 --> 00:43:59,960 Speaker 3: There's no update. 810 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 1: It's a very big seale to have sort of inside 811 00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: from prison video being leaked, right, it does break a 812 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,239 Speaker 1: lot of laws and it also lends itself to a 813 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: lack of security and and so I'm surprised there hasn't 814 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: been more more done in that category. The Idaho Department 815 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 1: of Corrections, the officials they have confirmed it's authentic. So 816 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,320 Speaker 1: it's definitely from that prison, because remember, initially we didn't 817 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: know if it was like from Pennsylvania or if it 818 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 1: was you know, in Moscow or Ada County jail. Very 819 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 1: quickly though, those county jails and whatnot said oh, it's 820 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:33,759 Speaker 1: not us, it's not us. 821 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 3: That's not our prison, that's not our jail. So the 822 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,760 Speaker 3: Idaho Department of Correction officials have confirmed that it's authentic 823 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 3: and it's from their prison, but they have dismissed a 824 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,319 Speaker 3: speculation that it might be fake or you know AI 825 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,759 Speaker 3: generated Remember this speculation, Oh, it's probably AI it's probably No, 826 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 3: it's real, but there's no update. That's that's yep. Well, 827 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:52,560 Speaker 3: but it does. 828 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 4: It harkened back to it's going to be a manned 829 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 4: Knox all night long for me anyway, But I know. 830 00:44:58,960 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 3: To what happened. 831 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,480 Speaker 4: This isn't spoiler because it's been out, but in the 832 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 4: scripted series, you see when Amanda and her then boyfriend 833 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,120 Speaker 4: are in prison and there's people from all ends who 834 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 4: are trying to get any prum of information or picture 835 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 4: or video and just going to get notoriety and putting 836 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 4: it out. So with someone like Brian Colberger, you could 837 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,919 Speaker 4: imagine that there's many people there who want any kind 838 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 4: of information on him to share with the world. 839 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 1: And they probably get paid top dollar to do so. Right, 840 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 1: So you can sell that footage pretty quickly. 841 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 3: I say, yuck. 842 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,919 Speaker 1: I'm still kind of curious though about the weird red 843 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: hands that he had. And by the way, if you're 844 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: just joining us, we're talking about Brian Coburger. 845 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:43,719 Speaker 3: He is now serving time. 846 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 1: Forever till his end of days behind bars forever for 847 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 1: the murder of four incredible college students in Idaho. He 848 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,840 Speaker 1: has accepted guilt and his hands in this particular video 849 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,000 Speaker 1: are very red, and we assume it's from excessive hand 850 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,759 Speaker 1: washing because he does have a bit of an OCD thing. 851 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 1: So hopefully you know, Brian Coburger is still having a 852 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 1: tough time getting along with others because the last we heard, 853 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,520 Speaker 1: he was getting tons of stuff. 854 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 3: Right, So listen, can we take a moment and just 855 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,120 Speaker 3: kind of make fun of Brian Goberger a little bit? 856 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 1: Are you guys a hearing that I don't find anything 857 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: about him that's fun. 858 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,759 Speaker 4: I'm still feeling pious from the presence of amand an ox, 859 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,240 Speaker 4: and I'm actually not even being facetious. I'm like filled 860 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 4: with goodwill towards humanity and keeping boundaries. You can do 861 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 4: it both that she said. But here's a story. Yeah, yeah, 862 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,280 Speaker 4: there was a man who was wrongfully imprisoned for twenty 863 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,359 Speaker 4: seven years. His name is Brian Hooper Senior, and he 864 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:48,720 Speaker 4: was exonerated and he has been freed. So it happened 865 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 4: for him after a very long time. So a key 866 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 4: witness against him spent all this time racked with guilt 867 00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,239 Speaker 4: and ultimately confessed to committing this murder that happened in 868 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:05,600 Speaker 4: nineteen ninety eight, a woman named Anne Prasniak was murdered. 869 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:10,240 Speaker 4: She was seventy seven years old. And Brian Hooper Senior, 870 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 4: who is now innocent and walking free and has been 871 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,960 Speaker 4: innocent the whole time he was in prison based on 872 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:22,520 Speaker 4: the worst incentivized testimony of several people, including Sheilaka Young 873 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 4: and four other witnesses, and despite the absence of any 874 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 4: physical evidence directly linking him to the murder. Since he 875 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,280 Speaker 4: was innocent, he was incarcerated for two and a half decades. 876 00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 4: But again, O god, yeah, but he walks free. 877 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,960 Speaker 1: Well this is kind of in the same vein, right, Yeah, 878 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,719 Speaker 1: I mean, now it makes sense at Courtney didn't want 879 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: to talk about Brian Coberger. Yeah no, she really was, like, 880 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: I do not want to talk about Brian Coberger for 881 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:53,000 Speaker 1: one second. Ten years by Courtney Armstrong. Fair enough, Okay, 882 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,120 Speaker 1: it all tracks now makes total sense. By the way 883 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,840 Speaker 1: I would be I don't know that the guy I 884 00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,439 Speaker 1: would be cool twenty five years. You stolen my life 885 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,560 Speaker 1: for a crime I did not commit. Prison is no fun. Horrible, 886 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: harrowing circumstances and then to walk free when you've lost 887 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,840 Speaker 1: loved ones, you've lost your job, you didn't have opportunities. 888 00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,600 Speaker 3: I mean, I see people who come. 889 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:21,960 Speaker 1: Out and they are so beautifully empathetic and compassionate and 890 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:27,120 Speaker 1: fined forgiveness, and it is jaw dropping, and I would 891 00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,400 Speaker 1: hope that I am capable of that, But I don't know. 892 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 1: Putting myself in there choos it would be hard. 893 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,960 Speaker 3: It would be hard for me. But I have to say. 894 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,680 Speaker 4: The woman I mentioned, or the person I mentioned rather, 895 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 4: Sheilaki Young. They were serving time in Georgia and wrote 896 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,719 Speaker 4: a spontaneous handwritten confession and admitted that she alone was 897 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 4: the one who killed this woman and thusly framed Hooper. 898 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,080 Speaker 4: So yeah, so after all this time, she said she 899 00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:58,560 Speaker 4: was soul sick. She expressed really deep remorse, and she 900 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 4: gave this confession to law enforcement, to a chaplain, and 901 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:07,239 Speaker 4: to family in recorded calls. So something changed in her 902 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 4: or she wanted to unsick her soul, which you know, 903 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,360 Speaker 4: I think we've all done things not to this benefit, 904 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,839 Speaker 4: but you just feel sick in your soul. 905 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 3: I've never heard that expression before. Did I wonder did 906 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 3: they just take that at face value. I wonder, like, 907 00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,319 Speaker 3: I don't know if we had this information or not, 908 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,759 Speaker 3: but or was there evidence to go along with that? 909 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,120 Speaker 4: Well, what happened because the evidence it was based on 910 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,960 Speaker 4: really five people saying he did it. There was nothing physical. 911 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,640 Speaker 4: So since there was no benefit for this woman to gain, 912 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:39,800 Speaker 4: her confession was deemed credible. 913 00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:40,920 Speaker 3: It was deemed. 914 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:45,360 Speaker 4: Consistent, and both the prosecutors and of course Hooper's defense, 915 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 4: they agreed it proved his innocence, and a judge vacated 916 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,960 Speaker 4: the conviction. He said it was false evidence that misled 917 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,920 Speaker 4: the jury, and he was released the next. 918 00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,200 Speaker 3: Day, the mist day. The next day. 919 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,480 Speaker 4: He was released the next day, and right now, guess 920 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,840 Speaker 4: where he is. He is living with his children in 921 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,840 Speaker 4: the Twin Cities. He is working on rebuilding his life. 922 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,359 Speaker 1: So you know, we also, I mean again, I'm always 923 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,040 Speaker 1: quoting shawshank redemption for some reason. I don't know why, 924 00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,040 Speaker 1: but you know, somehow, for I really did change my DNA. 925 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,719 Speaker 3: It is a good one. It's important. It's a good one. 926 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,240 Speaker 1: Hard one, right, but I would imagine that transition after prison, 927 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,959 Speaker 1: after all of those years is a really tough one too. 928 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,279 Speaker 1: So lucky he had kids to go back to and 929 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,799 Speaker 1: open arms. You know, She's so right, Amanda Knox again 930 00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,680 Speaker 1: saying that just knowing that somebody thinks that you matter 931 00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,360 Speaker 1: and that you matter to someone that was so important. 932 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,520 Speaker 3: And she's right, like the people that she was in 933 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,520 Speaker 3: prison with they felt maybe they didn't matter. That came 934 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,400 Speaker 3: maybe from you know, abuse or addiction or you know, 935 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,319 Speaker 3: a strange family, but not her, right, and so she 936 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,640 Speaker 3: had this strength that was instilled in her from her 937 00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:03,719 Speaker 3: mother up and just provided would love and oftentimes, you know, 938 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:05,880 Speaker 3: we I do, at least, you know, get in my 939 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,520 Speaker 3: feels a little bit and have little pity parties. I 940 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:12,680 Speaker 3: meant everyone, Yeah I am a pity party queen. Okay, 941 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,759 Speaker 3: like yeah, whore me you know e? Or you know me? 942 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,800 Speaker 3: And just hearing her say that, just my mom loved 943 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,080 Speaker 3: me like so much, and I just that meant a 944 00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,319 Speaker 3: lot to me. I don't know, it just made me 945 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,800 Speaker 3: feel a certain type of way. 946 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,239 Speaker 1: And we should all be mindful of that even at 947 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,959 Speaker 1: this time, Like, yeah, like give somebody that one weird 948 00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,320 Speaker 1: hug or just remind people that they matter. And again, 949 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,200 Speaker 1: anyone listening, you matter. 950 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,120 Speaker 4: To us, That's right, No, that really, I honestly I'm 951 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:41,960 Speaker 4: going to check in and see if I actually do 952 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,920 Speaker 4: this and take this moment of inspiration. But you know, 953 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:49,960 Speaker 4: there is a woman who very kindly makes my obscenely 954 00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 4: huge iced coffee when I go to get it at 955 00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,640 Speaker 4: the store, and she's so nice, and you know, we chat. 956 00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,440 Speaker 3: I just wanted to do it all day. 957 00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,800 Speaker 4: I just want to be literally all day. She made hours. 958 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,799 Speaker 4: So I should tell this person so she can just 959 00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,279 Speaker 4: hear it. Listen, she don't matter to me for to 960 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,440 Speaker 4: see you every day. Yeah, right, So if you have 961 00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,239 Speaker 4: anyone you look forward to seeing, let us know who 962 00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:14,080 Speaker 4: they are. Give a shout out. We're at your crime 963 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,839 Speaker 4: tonight eighty eight three one crime. We'd love to hear 964 00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,840 Speaker 4: inspiring stories, crime stories, whatever you got. 965 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,759 Speaker 1: And Stephanie, yes, you know it made me think even 966 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:26,680 Speaker 1: as she was talking, and of course I didn't want 967 00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,600 Speaker 1: to say it then. But who's your emergency contact number? 968 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,400 Speaker 1: When you're asked? You have one phone call and you 969 00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,680 Speaker 1: don't have to say it here unless you want to. 970 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,000 Speaker 1: But like that's a big piece of it too, Like 971 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,520 Speaker 1: even knowing that you have somebody that will pick up 972 00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,080 Speaker 1: the phone come hell or high water in the darkeness 973 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,839 Speaker 1: of circumstances. Who will stand behind you no matter what. 974 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,040 Speaker 1: If you have one person that will do that for you. 975 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,080 Speaker 1: I can't tell you what that means honestly. I mean, 976 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,320 Speaker 1: I know that sounds silly, but as somebody who's chronically. 977 00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,279 Speaker 3: Alone, it does mean a lot. I do have an 978 00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,680 Speaker 3: emergency contact. She means the world to me, and just 979 00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,000 Speaker 3: to have her in my phone as my ice, you know, 980 00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,319 Speaker 3: my yah emergency. It means a lot, and she knows 981 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:04,400 Speaker 3: what she is. She's listening. 982 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,520 Speaker 4: Well, I will, actually I will say mine. It's Amy Lynn, 983 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,840 Speaker 4: my best friend since the very first day of moving 984 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,920 Speaker 4: into college. No two people have been more different on 985 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,120 Speaker 4: this planet, and no two people are more aligned. And 986 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,640 Speaker 4: I took a picture when we had the fires in 987 00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:25,200 Speaker 4: Los Angeles. It was very scary. I was incredibly lucky. 988 00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,160 Speaker 4: I just didn't know that the story was going to 989 00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,360 Speaker 4: play out that way. And I just wrote down because 990 00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,400 Speaker 4: none of us remember phone numbers anymore. And I just 991 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,040 Speaker 4: wrote down on a stick on a sticky that's still. 992 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,719 Speaker 3: In my wallet. My mother, my in law, and Amy Lynn. 993 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,120 Speaker 3: So that's God bless Amy Lynn. You know that's it. 994 00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,640 Speaker 3: Your mother would bail you out of just about anything, 995 00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,200 Speaker 3: that's sure sured. But it's a good point. 996 00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,239 Speaker 1: By the way, another little practical piece of takeaway is 997 00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:54,239 Speaker 1: your right Courtney Armstrong. Nobody knows their numbers of anybody, 998 00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:57,960 Speaker 1: and you should memorize your emergency contact number or a 999 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,360 Speaker 1: couple of your buds because imagine being in a heroin 1000 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,120 Speaker 1: situation and you're like, I don't have access to a phone. 1001 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:06,520 Speaker 1: You get one phone call and you have no idea 1002 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:07,319 Speaker 1: what the digits are. 1003 00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,239 Speaker 8: Yeah, that's my big concern for me. I don't I 1004 00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,000 Speaker 8: use my cell phone for everything, and I don't know 1005 00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:14,680 Speaker 8: numbers by memory anymore. 1006 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:16,279 Speaker 3: So so that's a good tip for. 1007 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,480 Speaker 8: Everyone to have. And like you, I have one relative 1008 00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,320 Speaker 8: that I have as my emergency contact. But my concern 1009 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,239 Speaker 8: is they never seem to pick up when I call, 1010 00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,600 Speaker 8: So that frightens me a little bit. 1011 00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, well it would be you calling a hospital or jail, 1012 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:31,600 Speaker 3: god forbid. 1013 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,680 Speaker 1: You know, nobody ever picks up and those that's like, 1014 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:35,800 Speaker 1: oh strange to voicemail. 1015 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,880 Speaker 8: Yeah, exactly, that's my concern. I think I might have 1016 00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:40,480 Speaker 8: to rethink the people I have right now. 1017 00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, Stephanie, do you have someone you have? Lovely people? 1018 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,120 Speaker 4: Listen you you get back what you put in and 1019 00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,560 Speaker 4: Stephanie Ledecker is definitely proof of that because she has 1020 00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,359 Speaker 4: really really great, freaking people in her life. I can 1021 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,399 Speaker 4: say that plainly, but yeah, does it without even saying 1022 00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:56,640 Speaker 4: the name. 1023 00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,480 Speaker 1: Of course, No, it's in my mom because she sort 1024 00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,360 Speaker 1: of will. She will always answer and then call tonight 1025 00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,080 Speaker 1: and yeah, she will listen. I one time went to 1026 00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,600 Speaker 1: Paris by myself and didn't tell anybody I was going, 1027 00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,239 Speaker 1: And when I showed up in my hotel room, the 1028 00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,080 Speaker 1: phone was ringing in hand to it, hand to. 1029 00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:14,879 Speaker 3: God, it was my mother. 1030 00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:16,000 Speaker 8: Wow. 1031 00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:19,480 Speaker 3: So that's why she's my emergency contact. 1032 00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,160 Speaker 1: And at least she could get me to my brothers, 1033 00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,120 Speaker 1: who would then come in and save the day. But 1034 00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,480 Speaker 1: I have a very small circle, but they're diehard. Wo 1035 00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,359 Speaker 1: may we all be so lucky? Listen, stay with us. 1036 00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:37,360 Speaker 4: Coming up, we have Oh we have a really shocking 1037 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:42,319 Speaker 4: pattern emerging in Colorado funeral homes. Oh boy, yeah, this 1038 00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,200 Speaker 4: is quite a story. Keep it here True Crime Tonight, 1039 00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:46,680 Speaker 4: and give us a call. 1040 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,759 Speaker 3: Eighty eight three one crime. We want to talk to you. 1041 00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:01,920 Speaker 1: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight, an iHeartRadio. We're talking 1042 00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,120 Speaker 1: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of 1043 00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,200 Speaker 1: course with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and body. 1044 00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:10,799 Speaker 3: You have breaking news happening right now. What's going on, 1045 00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,319 Speaker 3: very breaking, So get this, Okay. Travis Decker, remember he 1046 00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,360 Speaker 3: is the man that is accused of killing his three 1047 00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,600 Speaker 3: young daughters back in June and then he's been evading 1048 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:25,480 Speaker 3: law enforcement since. Well, there's breaking news. Human remains believed 1049 00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,800 Speaker 3: to be him have been found. The quote is positive. 1050 00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:33,160 Speaker 3: Identification has not yet been confirmed. Preliminary findings suggest the 1051 00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:37,080 Speaker 3: remains belong to Travis Decker. The Sheriff's office said, So, 1052 00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,040 Speaker 3: we're going to keep following this and hopefully we'll get 1053 00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,960 Speaker 3: some confirmation, hopefully it is him, and hopefully maybe they'll 1054 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,520 Speaker 3: get some answers with this, but I don't know. But yeah, 1055 00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:44,879 Speaker 3: and just. 1056 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:48,920 Speaker 4: End, I mean this man hunt and the many multiple 1057 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:53,680 Speaker 4: people and agencies that have been working, oh tirelessly. 1058 00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. So hopefully we're going to kee following this and 1059 00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,800 Speaker 3: hopefully maybe we'll have an update, you know, later in 1060 00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,920 Speaker 3: the sho show. I'm not sure, but from what I 1061 00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,560 Speaker 3: understand that we have our associate producer Ava on the line. Yes, 1062 00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,640 Speaker 3: she's going to be giving us an update on the 1063 00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:09,759 Speaker 3: case that she's been following. Ava, are you there. 1064 00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:11,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, Hi, guys, thank you. 1065 00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:12,880 Speaker 3: Listen. 1066 00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:16,080 Speaker 1: Ava Kaplin keeps us all in line during the day, 1067 00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,160 Speaker 1: so we're keeping her up relate because she's on the 1068 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,600 Speaker 1: early shift. So Ava tell us everything. 1069 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:26,800 Speaker 6: Hi, guys. Well, first of all, going after Amanda Knox, Yeah, 1070 00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,240 Speaker 6: is literally like being at the talent show and like 1071 00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,800 Speaker 6: Yancey is in front of me and then I go 1072 00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,200 Speaker 6: and I'm doing like my magic trick or something. 1073 00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,600 Speaker 3: Listen, you are blue ivy. Okay, you are nothing that 1074 00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:41,560 Speaker 3: Ava Kaplin. 1075 00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,040 Speaker 1: You come out there in your pants and you give 1076 00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:46,480 Speaker 1: it a good blue ivy stress. 1077 00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:48,880 Speaker 6: Okay, thank you, buddy. That means a lot to be 1078 00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,240 Speaker 6: I mean, speaking of human remains, there is a crazy 1079 00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:54,480 Speaker 6: story coming out of Colorado that I want to talk 1080 00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:58,320 Speaker 6: to you guys about. Tell right, Okay, So get this, 1081 00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,720 Speaker 6: not one, but two Colorado funeral homes have been at 1082 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:06,720 Speaker 6: the center of corpse abuse scandals in the past several years. 1083 00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:09,640 Speaker 6: And in one of them, so there's a funeral home 1084 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,640 Speaker 6: called quote Return to Nature Funeral Home. This is in 1085 00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,600 Speaker 6: a town in Colorado called Penrose. I know, right, already 1086 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:15,920 Speaker 6: hate it. 1087 00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:17,080 Speaker 8: I hated. 1088 00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:22,520 Speaker 6: Two hundred decomposing bodies were discovered just like on the ground. 1089 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,800 Speaker 6: This one funeral home. What isn't that crazy? 1090 00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:28,800 Speaker 3: Do you meem like return to nature? That's not actually 1091 00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:34,120 Speaker 3: so surprising? Well, literally, hold up ava. So it's a 1092 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,360 Speaker 3: funeral home. At a funeral home. 1093 00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,920 Speaker 1: Obviously you have the bodies and then you bury the bodies, 1094 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,720 Speaker 1: or you exhume the you cremate the body. 1095 00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:42,760 Speaker 3: They weren't doing that. 1096 00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,920 Speaker 6: They weren't doing that. And instead of cremating the bodies 1097 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,360 Speaker 6: like the family thought, they were just kind of like 1098 00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,120 Speaker 6: burying them around the property. And instead of giving the 1099 00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,840 Speaker 6: family their ashes, they were giving them what authorities believe 1100 00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:57,840 Speaker 6: was actually just dry cement. 1101 00:58:58,280 --> 00:58:59,200 Speaker 1: And oh. 1102 00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:01,560 Speaker 3: Was crazy. 1103 00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:06,080 Speaker 6: And family started kind of being suspicious because imagine you're 1104 00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,480 Speaker 6: sprinkling your father's ashes in the pond that's where you 1105 00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:13,680 Speaker 6: grow up, and instead of it kind of just like scattering, 1106 00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,960 Speaker 6: they start to harden. Well apparently human remains are not 1107 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,040 Speaker 6: supposed to harden, but something like dry cement does, so 1108 00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,160 Speaker 6: they were kind of reacting with water and with the 1109 00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:26,360 Speaker 6: elements and in the way that ashes should. So that 1110 00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:29,640 Speaker 6: was one major red flag. And another one was obviously 1111 00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,240 Speaker 6: the massive smell, which is what eventually triggered the search 1112 00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,919 Speaker 6: warrant that searched the property and found that there were 1113 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:37,640 Speaker 6: these hundreds of bodies on the property. 1114 00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:42,160 Speaker 3: Terrible family, so sick. What a bunch of sickos? Again, 1115 00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,200 Speaker 3: that is not okay, wod. 1116 00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:47,480 Speaker 6: It's so beyond sick and it would be crazy if 1117 00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,400 Speaker 6: it was just one situation. But okay, that's the most 1118 00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,560 Speaker 6: extreme one. Almost two hundred bodies. This is in twenty 1119 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,919 Speaker 6: twenty three, but literally just this year twenty twenty five, 1120 00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:59,760 Speaker 6: another one. Authorities were like doing an inspection of another 1121 00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:03,680 Speaker 6: few roll home in Colorado twenty decomposing bodies just behind 1122 01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:07,280 Speaker 6: a secret door in a funeral home they found and 1123 01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,560 Speaker 6: some of them the funeral home director admitted he has 1124 01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,640 Speaker 6: been storing in there for almost fifteen years. 1125 01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Wow, okay, why why is he storing the bodies in 1126 01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:19,840 Speaker 1: the secret room for fifteen years? 1127 01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,800 Speaker 6: That's a million dollar question. My understanding of first of all, 1128 01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,680 Speaker 6: why this is happening only in Colorado, or maybe more 1129 01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:30,360 Speaker 6: in Colorado, is they have all these loopholes. Every state 1130 01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,680 Speaker 6: is supposed to have regulations. I looked into it. I 1131 01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:34,720 Speaker 6: learned that in Colorado you don't need to have any 1132 01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:38,240 Speaker 6: sort of license or qualifications to run a funeral home. 1133 01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:39,720 Speaker 3: You just have to know are you kidding? 1134 01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:41,960 Speaker 6: Me, DEA's serious. So you can just be like, Okay, 1135 01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,440 Speaker 6: I'm opening my funeral home now, no degree, no course, 1136 01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,480 Speaker 6: you can just do it. And because of all these scandals, 1137 01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,400 Speaker 6: it's starting to change and they're starting to kind of 1138 01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,200 Speaker 6: ramp up because apparently this is like a widespread pattern 1139 01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:57,080 Speaker 6: where people are opening up funeral homes and then just 1140 01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,480 Speaker 6: storing the bodies and then giving people fake ashes. 1141 01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:00,200 Speaker 7: Yeah. 1142 01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,880 Speaker 3: Way, this is a very expensive process. 1143 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,880 Speaker 1: If anybody's had to, you know, lay someone to rest, 1144 01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,560 Speaker 1: it is really expensive. It's costly, it's emotional. You're at 1145 01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:13,720 Speaker 1: such a vulnerable time, so you go to a funeral home, 1146 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,640 Speaker 1: probably for the first time in crisis, right when you're 1147 01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:21,080 Speaker 1: completely grieving, and yeah, ticket, there's like prices everywhere and 1148 01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:22,840 Speaker 1: you're you know, you don't want your loved one not 1149 01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,480 Speaker 1: to have everything, so chick ching. You know, it's a 1150 01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:30,480 Speaker 1: real process. The fact that they're taking advantage of mourning 1151 01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:34,960 Speaker 1: human pole is so next level that I can't even imagine. 1152 01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:39,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, and there's two more cases, just real quick. Similar 1153 01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,120 Speaker 6: also in Colorado, also in the past five years. One 1154 01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:46,000 Speaker 6: twenty twenty two, brand Junction Colorado owners were convicted of 1155 01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:49,440 Speaker 6: selling body parts and then giving climestick ashes. And then 1156 01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:53,400 Speaker 6: in another case in suburban Denver, a woman's body was 1157 01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:55,920 Speaker 6: found in the back of a heart where the funeral 1158 01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,280 Speaker 6: home had left it for over a year. And then 1159 01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:02,560 Speaker 6: in the same funeral home director's house, thirty sets of 1160 01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,680 Speaker 6: cremated remains were found dashed just throughout his house. 1161 01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:12,920 Speaker 3: This is insane, Eva, it isn't everyone. We're all like gobsmacked, puzzled. 1162 01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,720 Speaker 3: What a weird thing to do to and. 1163 01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:19,720 Speaker 4: How do you not think through It's like, I'm going 1164 01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,160 Speaker 4: to open a funeral home. 1165 01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:22,760 Speaker 3: Isn't the next thought? 1166 01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:25,320 Speaker 4: What am I actually going to do with these bodies 1167 01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:29,920 Speaker 4: that will be arriving at my door? I mean, the answer, Colorado, 1168 01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:33,520 Speaker 4: the answer isn't go chill it don't chill in my 1169 01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:36,520 Speaker 4: backyard where it is not temperature controlled. 1170 01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:39,600 Speaker 3: Oh my, I have a question for the room though. 1171 01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,400 Speaker 1: So again, so they're taking the bodies and then they're 1172 01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,720 Speaker 1: giving fake ashes. So the understanding from the families are 1173 01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,880 Speaker 1: that their bodies were being cremated, not buried, because if 1174 01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,920 Speaker 1: they were being buried, they would probably witness that process. 1175 01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:56,680 Speaker 1: Why it's like, it seems like it why keep the bodies? 1176 01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,200 Speaker 1: It's really easier to Yeah. 1177 01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:03,960 Speaker 6: I think that maybe it's an expensive process because they're 1178 01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,600 Speaker 6: like supposed to be sending out these bodies to be cremated, 1179 01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,320 Speaker 6: and they're getting like fake certifications of like I'm sending 1180 01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:12,560 Speaker 6: them out to be cremated. So maybe they just don't 1181 01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:14,600 Speaker 6: want to pay for the process, so they're just taking 1182 01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,800 Speaker 6: these poor people's money and then just putting their bodies 1183 01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,640 Speaker 6: in a secret door and then giving them cement and 1184 01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:22,400 Speaker 6: making a buck. That's my guest. 1185 01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:24,720 Speaker 9: But I don't know what a lame moved. 1186 01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,040 Speaker 3: I mean, Amanda Knox would not stand for that, No, 1187 01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:31,040 Speaker 3: she would. I When my mom passed, you know, her 1188 01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,480 Speaker 3: wish was to be cremated. And I can't tell you 1189 01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,240 Speaker 3: how comforting it was to me when I was able 1190 01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,360 Speaker 3: to go get her pick up her ashes and the 1191 01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,600 Speaker 3: urn and all that, you know, in these certificates and 1192 01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:43,440 Speaker 3: everything I needed, and it still sits right next to 1193 01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,560 Speaker 3: me over here, like literally on my desk, and like, 1194 01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,320 Speaker 3: I just cannot imagine these poor families who think that, 1195 01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:53,200 Speaker 3: you know what I mean, like crying to concrete, I 1196 01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,960 Speaker 3: confessing to concrete. I used some of my mom's ashes 1197 01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:59,880 Speaker 3: in this tattoo. It's in the emerald on my arm. 1198 01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,240 Speaker 3: That's her burstone and they use some of her ashes 1199 01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:06,400 Speaker 3: in the ink. Listen, I'm just saying I can't tell 1200 01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,200 Speaker 3: you the amount of peace that that gave me. It's 1201 01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:11,640 Speaker 3: it's like a healing thing, right, Like, because I don't 1202 01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,480 Speaker 3: have a headstone to go to, so I just kind 1203 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:15,520 Speaker 3: of looking at my emerald on my tattoo, and you know, 1204 01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:18,600 Speaker 3: I that's my mom. You know, these people, they're going 1205 01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,240 Speaker 3: to be prosecuted, I would imagine, and to hope you 1206 01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,160 Speaker 3: spend a lot of time in jail. I mean, this 1207 01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:24,080 Speaker 3: is horrible. 1208 01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:25,720 Speaker 8: This is actually really interesting. 1209 01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:28,520 Speaker 6: It speaks to exactly what you're saying, because these families 1210 01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:31,480 Speaker 6: are so mad that for a judge who was in 1211 01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:33,880 Speaker 6: charge of prosecuting the case where it was the almost 1212 01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:37,479 Speaker 6: two hundred bodies, has rejected a plea deal from the 1213 01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:39,760 Speaker 6: good guy who was doing it good and he said 1214 01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,960 Speaker 6: that it was the first time, like as a judge, 1215 01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,600 Speaker 6: that he's ever rejected a plea deal because the family 1216 01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,919 Speaker 6: is worth like this is unacceptable, but like, and it's 1217 01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,040 Speaker 6: two hundred people, so you can imagine the sheer volume 1218 01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:54,640 Speaker 6: of family members who've been Oh my god, it's beyond 1219 01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:56,040 Speaker 6: it's enraging. 1220 01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,720 Speaker 1: I feel enraged, right, now honestly, like, let me add them. 1221 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,720 Speaker 1: It's just like again, kicking somebody at their lowest time, 1222 01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:04,560 Speaker 1: when it's their most difficult moment. 1223 01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,960 Speaker 3: That yeah, let them, yeah, let them. 1224 01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:11,320 Speaker 6: It's crazy. So this is the one in the two 1225 01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,640 Speaker 6: hundred bodies. His name is John Halford and and his 1226 01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,560 Speaker 6: wife they own this place together. And a jury trial 1227 01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:20,520 Speaker 6: for John Halford is scheduled for February ninth of twenty 1228 01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:21,080 Speaker 6: twenty six. 1229 01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:22,600 Speaker 3: So we'll put that on the calendar. 1230 01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:26,000 Speaker 6: We'll put that on the calendar because it's expected to 1231 01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:30,760 Speaker 6: last a month or longer because it's your volume. Oh god, 1232 01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,400 Speaker 6: is that crazy? A month or longer. 1233 01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:36,240 Speaker 1: I just want to like, eat up aby, how great 1234 01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:38,160 Speaker 1: is She's like, get this? 1235 01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:41,200 Speaker 3: This is what we hear in the day. You get this. 1236 01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,520 Speaker 3: It's crazy. And it, by the way, it always is. 1237 01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:46,840 Speaker 3: It actually always tracks. 1238 01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:47,240 Speaker 4: You know. 1239 01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:49,720 Speaker 1: When you say that, I like I lean in and 1240 01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:51,280 Speaker 1: I sit up because you know what it's going to 1241 01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:54,520 Speaker 1: be a crazy really crazy Yes, that's you did it. 1242 01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:57,800 Speaker 3: Again, kid, you did it again. Well done, well done. 1243 01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,960 Speaker 6: I mean hopefully there's a change. I've actually looked it up. 1244 01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,920 Speaker 6: And in twenty twenty six, twenty seven, a whole new 1245 01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,080 Speaker 6: slew of Regulations is coming to Colorado because, as you 1246 01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:10,280 Speaker 6: can see, in the past five years, has done like 1247 01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:12,040 Speaker 6: multiple crazy scandals. 1248 01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:14,880 Speaker 3: That's yeah, get it your soul, Florado. 1249 01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:15,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1250 01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,840 Speaker 3: For me to quote the great Courtney Armstrong stick in the. 1251 01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,640 Speaker 4: Soul seriously and the trial honestly, I actually had just 1252 01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,960 Speaker 4: flashed to it, and that would be, like I hope 1253 01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,680 Speaker 4: hell for these people to watch the parade of two 1254 01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:33,320 Speaker 4: hundred family members say this is how you impacted my 1255 01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:37,240 Speaker 4: life and what you did to my mother, sister, father, 1256 01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:39,200 Speaker 4: and boyfriend uncle. 1257 01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:41,440 Speaker 3: Can I have a request? 1258 01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,720 Speaker 1: Can we go back after this soul sickening story back 1259 01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,920 Speaker 1: to the Brian Coburger pictures so Boddy. 1260 01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:50,400 Speaker 3: And I can have a giggle about them, Like, can 1261 01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:55,040 Speaker 3: we just lighten the vibe because that is yeah, yeah, 1262 01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:57,960 Speaker 3: like these pictures. Have you guys seen the selfies? You 1263 01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,520 Speaker 3: guys when I was on vacation, These selfies are rooms, right, 1264 01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:02,760 Speaker 3: so I'd get a chance to gossip about them. And 1265 01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:05,640 Speaker 3: I've been back a week now. This is my fourth 1266 01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:08,000 Speaker 3: day back or no fifth day back. This is our Friday. 1267 01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:10,480 Speaker 3: I forgot about it, our Friday, and I finally I 1268 01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:12,480 Speaker 3: want to make fun of him. I've been dying to 1269 01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:14,240 Speaker 3: make fun of him over these pictures. Can we take 1270 01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:14,640 Speaker 3: a minute? 1271 01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,720 Speaker 4: Yes, And I think actually that even audience members were 1272 01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:23,840 Speaker 4: prepared because really have a talk back. Tahas motioning wildly 1273 01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,320 Speaker 4: about so I'm there, what. 1274 01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:29,960 Speaker 3: If he raising his hands over just on tire? What 1275 01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:30,600 Speaker 3: just happened? 1276 01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:32,920 Speaker 8: No, I just wouldn't let you know that a lot 1277 01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:34,920 Speaker 8: of people have been asking, as a fact, we got 1278 01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:37,120 Speaker 8: to talk back, So I was gonna I didn't know. Everyone, 1279 01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:38,680 Speaker 8: let's listen to that one. 1280 01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:40,280 Speaker 3: Let's do it. Oh shoot. 1281 01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:43,080 Speaker 10: In my opinion, I feel like Bryan took the selfie 1282 01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:46,160 Speaker 10: to try and show that he lives in active lifestyle 1283 01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:49,440 Speaker 10: and to also get authorities to possibly not look his 1284 01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:50,880 Speaker 10: way when it comes to the case. 1285 01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,840 Speaker 3: Yes. So I think there's two categories of selfies, right, 1286 01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:59,760 Speaker 3: there's pre murder selfies and post murder selfies. Yeah, right, 1287 01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:02,600 Speaker 3: And the pre murder selfies are talked back, is right? 1288 01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:06,840 Speaker 3: Like they're all of him hiking, trying on different clothes. 1289 01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:08,600 Speaker 3: There's you know that one that we've already seen of 1290 01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:11,200 Speaker 3: him kind of taking a picture of his little rear 1291 01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:15,800 Speaker 3: end in the mirror well and holding up pictures of 1292 01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:19,640 Speaker 3: his the handwriting, says Brian C. Coberger August seventeenth, with 1293 01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:22,880 Speaker 3: that code. Well, apparently that's something for class, some sort 1294 01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:28,000 Speaker 3: of verification for class uploads. But a majority of them 1295 01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:31,960 Speaker 3: are of him hiking, and to me, he's it's almost 1296 01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:35,280 Speaker 3: like he's trying to look normal. It sounds like he's 1297 01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:37,320 Speaker 3: trying to get his hinge profile in order. 1298 01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:40,120 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, another I thought I was just the same 1299 01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:41,759 Speaker 1: photos for a dating app. 1300 01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,800 Speaker 3: Yes, likely, it looks very much like he's taking these 1301 01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:47,040 Speaker 3: selfies for a dating app. Like now, if you guys 1302 01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,120 Speaker 3: go on a dating app, go look, they all look 1303 01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:50,920 Speaker 3: like this. Well and I don't look like Brian Coberger, 1304 01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:54,080 Speaker 3: but they're posed like this. Right. It's almost like he's 1305 01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:57,360 Speaker 3: kind of getting ready to maybe go and create some 1306 01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:01,519 Speaker 3: kind of profile. You know, it's very interesting. We have 1307 01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:04,880 Speaker 3: a shout out, yeah, it's so scary. And then there's 1308 01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:08,400 Speaker 3: the post murder selfies, and of course the first one 1309 01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,960 Speaker 3: we've seen a lot, but now we have it in 1310 01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:15,839 Speaker 3: very clear detail of him the day on November thirteenth 1311 01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,479 Speaker 3: of twenty twenty two, the thumbs up shower, the one 1312 01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:20,400 Speaker 3: in front of the shower. It's clear as day and 1313 01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:22,759 Speaker 3: you can clearly see this band aid on his finger. 1314 01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:25,880 Speaker 3: You can clearly see it. I mean, it's the clarity 1315 01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:29,160 Speaker 3: on these pictures are phenomenal. So we have we have that, 1316 01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:32,719 Speaker 3: and then we have interesting. Really okay, there's so many 1317 01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:36,600 Speaker 3: selfies of him holding his hair back, I know, like 1318 01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:39,439 Speaker 3: kind of slicked back. I don't know a lot of 1319 01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:42,080 Speaker 3: I did a little bit of research, and a lot 1320 01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:44,360 Speaker 3: of people are saying he's trying to look like Patrick 1321 01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:49,160 Speaker 3: Bateman from American Samary. No, that's what people are saying. 1322 01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:51,720 Speaker 1: No, because he does look like him quite a bit, 1323 01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:52,960 Speaker 1: and it does sort of track. 1324 01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:55,920 Speaker 3: And then you, guys, these ones are even creepier. There's 1325 01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:59,080 Speaker 3: like three or four of him shirtless. One of them 1326 01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:02,240 Speaker 3: is in his home home in Pullman, and then three 1327 01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:04,360 Speaker 3: or four of them are in his mother's kitchen and 1328 01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,960 Speaker 3: he's shirtless and he's posing and flexing and these. 1329 01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:10,160 Speaker 4: And these are all after the murder, almost saluting in 1330 01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:10,960 Speaker 4: one of them. 1331 01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:15,479 Speaker 3: In listen this, by the way, he's a goober bing 1332 01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:16,560 Speaker 3: us these pictures. 1333 01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:18,880 Speaker 6: Like I was like trying to have a peaceful night. 1334 01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:22,800 Speaker 6: I opened my phone room. It's bright colberger, like terrifying, 1335 01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:27,520 Speaker 6: britty faith taking all the faces. 1336 01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:32,200 Speaker 1: Yeah that face, yeah, no no warning, no scary body. 1337 01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:33,599 Speaker 6: You did not you needed to do. 1338 01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:37,519 Speaker 3: Like I'm sorry, my gosh. Listen, stick around. 1339 01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:40,719 Speaker 4: We've got more to dig into and we will also 1340 01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,840 Speaker 4: be hearing from you. Keep it here True Crime Tonight, 1341 01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:46,280 Speaker 4: where we are talking true crime all the time. 1342 01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:59,200 Speaker 1: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeart Radio. We're 1343 01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:01,599 Speaker 1: talking true all the time. By the way, this has 1344 01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:04,680 Speaker 1: been in a wild night and it continues because we 1345 01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:08,280 Speaker 1: also have breaking news. You will remember TAHA was covering 1346 01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:12,000 Speaker 1: a story about the singer David, who was on tour 1347 01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:16,320 Speaker 1: doing a concert. His Seattle concert was canceled last night 1348 01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:20,960 Speaker 1: because there had been a fifteen year old girl found 1349 01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:25,800 Speaker 1: decomposing in the trunk of his tesla. It was impounded 1350 01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:30,200 Speaker 1: and authorities were suggesting that perhaps maybe it had been 1351 01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:32,720 Speaker 1: there for almost a month. And we now know her 1352 01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:36,240 Speaker 1: name and that she was a missing girl since she 1353 01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:39,080 Speaker 1: was thirteen years old. So that was a tough tale 1354 01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:40,160 Speaker 1: even last night. 1355 01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:40,479 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1356 01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:43,840 Speaker 1: Now there's brand new information breaking as we're on the air. 1357 01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:47,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. So the police have basically raided his home. This 1358 01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:49,920 Speaker 3: is the snopsis of it all. Kind of doing this 1359 01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:53,240 Speaker 3: ad lib right now. So singer David's home was thoroughly 1360 01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,600 Speaker 3: searched by the Los Angeles police, Department homicide unit and 1361 01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:00,760 Speaker 3: Wednesday evening, so last night as they tried to connect Celestreeva, 1362 01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,479 Speaker 3: she's the victim, she's the little girl. Basically, she's fifteen five, 1363 01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:07,880 Speaker 3: the little girl who was found in his in his 1364 01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:11,200 Speaker 3: tesla trunk. Right, they're trying to connect her to the 1365 01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:14,439 Speaker 3: property and the singer. So she was fifteen. She was 1366 01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:17,639 Speaker 3: identified Wednesday as the victim who remains were found inside 1367 01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:22,519 Speaker 3: that tesla on September eighth, TMZ actually told Banfield just 1368 01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:26,200 Speaker 3: now that police were looking for anything resembling blood evidence 1369 01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:28,599 Speaker 3: and this is a quote. This is a quote. They 1370 01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:31,000 Speaker 3: were checking drains to see if there was any blood 1371 01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:34,040 Speaker 3: evidence or any blood or tissue that was in the 1372 01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,240 Speaker 3: drains there. So they did a scouring of his house 1373 01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:40,920 Speaker 3: looking for any evidence. Police told TMZ that the home 1374 01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:43,320 Speaker 3: was about a block a block and a half from 1375 01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:46,479 Speaker 3: where the tesla was parked before it was told, so 1376 01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:48,760 Speaker 3: it was just down the street in this house. What 1377 01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:49,439 Speaker 3: is dummy? 1378 01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:52,360 Speaker 1: What is he thinking? And by the way, what's that 1379 01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:56,320 Speaker 1: age difference? That's a very sixth okay age difference. When 1380 01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:59,240 Speaker 1: they met, he was eighteen and she was thirteen. 1381 01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:00,439 Speaker 8: That's still weird to me. 1382 01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:04,360 Speaker 3: Of course, it is still illegal. It's still yes, of 1383 01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:07,639 Speaker 3: course it is, so we it's and he continued, he said, 1384 01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:12,040 Speaker 3: we know that tesla is his. The thing that's still 1385 01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:16,200 Speaker 3: not clear is who was actually driving that tesla, the 1386 01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:19,559 Speaker 3: body was placed in the car, and who parked it 1387 01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:22,360 Speaker 3: where it was eventually found and impounded. Those are the 1388 01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:24,360 Speaker 3: dots that still need to be connectable. 1389 01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:28,000 Speaker 4: Well, and has he I don't know if if this 1390 01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:30,800 Speaker 4: is out yet body? But has this turned officially to 1391 01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:34,360 Speaker 4: a homicide? And is he a suspect because earlier the 1392 01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:39,000 Speaker 4: autopsy had not come out. Is it's not done, which, 1393 01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,240 Speaker 4: just to be clear, it has not been declared. 1394 01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:44,400 Speaker 1: Here's a personal interest going through his house, looking through 1395 01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:45,320 Speaker 1: his direct unity. 1396 01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:49,160 Speaker 3: The homicide unit is right, So, I mean, there's no 1397 01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:51,439 Speaker 3: other way for her to be really kind of in 1398 01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:55,280 Speaker 3: his trunk of course. Yeah, so I mean she didn't 1399 01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:57,439 Speaker 3: crawl in there herself. I can't, you know what I mean, Like, 1400 01:13:57,479 --> 01:13:59,479 Speaker 3: I'm sure this is what I did. 1401 01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:01,720 Speaker 8: I was talking to someone else about this before. If 1402 01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:05,160 Speaker 8: he slightly giving the benefit of the doubt, Let's say 1403 01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:08,000 Speaker 8: imagine he's on tour, she's a part of his life. 1404 01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:10,800 Speaker 8: Could she have been staying there and his circle of 1405 01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:14,080 Speaker 8: you know music friends or all these it's actually very true. 1406 01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:17,240 Speaker 8: It could have been before we sort of go to him. 1407 01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:20,000 Speaker 3: And maybe it's just a coincidence that his hit is 1408 01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:23,479 Speaker 3: called like romantic homicide, right, Like, you know, there's just 1409 01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:26,400 Speaker 3: a lot of weird things, you know, and if you 1410 01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:29,360 Speaker 3: go and look at like all that digital I'm going 1411 01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:33,599 Speaker 3: to use air quotes evidence of their relationship. You know, 1412 01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:37,880 Speaker 3: there's photos of photosumably her and him together throughout the 1413 01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:43,200 Speaker 3: last couple of years. It looks she's like her lyrics 1414 01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:49,000 Speaker 3: and songs unreleased about her about more about the name Celeste. 1415 01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:52,880 Speaker 1: Yes, also let's not remember but also remember his you know, 1416 01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:57,840 Speaker 1: Celeste's mother who is desperately missing her daughter, and what 1417 01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:02,320 Speaker 1: a horrible day for her, she facing the realization of 1418 01:15:02,360 --> 01:15:05,599 Speaker 1: what's really happened. She didn't have a good feeling about 1419 01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:11,280 Speaker 1: Celeste's boyfriend, whose name just by coincidence also David So 1420 01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:17,200 Speaker 1: again scenario tattoos that you know, what are they so 1421 01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:18,000 Speaker 1: secretive about? 1422 01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:18,240 Speaker 3: Again? 1423 01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:21,280 Speaker 1: I know it's a popular tattoo, but again, young girls, 1424 01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:24,360 Speaker 1: et cetera. And by the way, shout out to Harvey 1425 01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:27,679 Speaker 1: Levin and TMC really breaking the story real time. 1426 01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:30,320 Speaker 3: Absolutely is that crazy? 1427 01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:31,479 Speaker 2: I need to tell you guys. 1428 01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:33,759 Speaker 6: I was scrolling on Twitter earlier and I came across 1429 01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:37,160 Speaker 6: a David fan account that was like, at the end 1430 01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:39,240 Speaker 6: of the day, I will be rebranding I do not 1431 01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:42,639 Speaker 6: condone murder. So part of me was like, I just. 1432 01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,120 Speaker 4: Have to last because the fact that a. 1433 01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,880 Speaker 6: David Crant account is probably this poor, like thirteen year 1434 01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:50,840 Speaker 6: old girl who like your song, and now she feels 1435 01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:53,120 Speaker 6: like she has to like make an official statement that 1436 01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,920 Speaker 6: she does not condone murder. It's just so brutal. I 1437 01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:58,000 Speaker 6: feel so bad for her. 1438 01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,720 Speaker 4: Well, David has also had that that girl, that head 1439 01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:05,520 Speaker 4: of the fan club, whomever she is, and you are okay. 1440 01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:08,080 Speaker 4: This is not do you make your stamp, but you're okay. 1441 01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:14,160 Speaker 4: But brands have pulled back from David. I didn't realize 1442 01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:18,400 Speaker 4: he quite how popular his music had gotten something or platinum. 1443 01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:20,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, by the way, he's been on tour. 1444 01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:23,040 Speaker 1: So I actually like Tahas theory and I want to 1445 01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:25,080 Speaker 1: go with it because I do not believe in my 1446 01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:28,599 Speaker 1: heart of hearts that any human could actually murder a girl, 1447 01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:32,599 Speaker 1: let her decompose in the trunk of your tesla for 1448 01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:36,080 Speaker 1: close to a month, knowing that her mother is missing 1449 01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:39,519 Speaker 1: her young young daughter and then go on tour and 1450 01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:41,040 Speaker 1: continue to perform. 1451 01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:42,639 Speaker 3: I find that hard to believe. 1452 01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:45,559 Speaker 4: In close to impossible in the car right near your house, 1453 01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,600 Speaker 4: like it just like how stupid could you be? Like yeah, 1454 01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:53,040 Speaker 4: But also, guys, I mean if guilt or not, I 1455 01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:55,519 Speaker 4: don't care what you're doing. If someone calls, if the 1456 01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:59,600 Speaker 4: authorities call and say, hey, there's actually a body decomposing 1457 01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:02,280 Speaker 4: in a car that's actually registered to you, I think 1458 01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:04,000 Speaker 4: you go ahead and deal with it and put what 1459 01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:06,679 Speaker 4: you're doing, put that tour on hold for a moment. 1460 01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,960 Speaker 4: That was a whatever the circumstances. I find that to 1461 01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:11,599 Speaker 4: be a very strange choice. 1462 01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,600 Speaker 3: Totally agree. But like Devil's advocate. 1463 01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:17,080 Speaker 1: So you have your whole career, this is your big moment, 1464 01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:19,839 Speaker 1: lots of money on the line, millions and millions of dollars, 1465 01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:23,040 Speaker 1: so you can actually go on tour. It's big business. 1466 01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:26,400 Speaker 1: And if you had nothing to do with something and 1467 01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:30,200 Speaker 1: this crazy weird thing happened. Now that we know who 1468 01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:33,760 Speaker 1: she is and that she is for certain someone that 1469 01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:34,839 Speaker 1: he likely knows. 1470 01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:38,479 Speaker 3: Well, that changes it. But maybe he didn't realize. 1471 01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:40,640 Speaker 1: Maybe he just thought his car got stolen and that 1472 01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:44,519 Speaker 1: a random person was found in his car. Why would 1473 01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:47,479 Speaker 1: he stop his tour? I don't know, it's complicated stuff. 1474 01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:50,080 Speaker 3: Well, the car was found before it got impounded a 1475 01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:52,479 Speaker 3: block and a block and a half away from his house, though, 1476 01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:53,160 Speaker 3: I mean it. 1477 01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:55,640 Speaker 8: Was right, but that's what I mean, Like, if he 1478 01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:57,800 Speaker 8: did that, why would you put the body there and 1479 01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:01,280 Speaker 8: leave the car? It seems it seems almost a little 1480 01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:02,240 Speaker 8: like maybe. 1481 01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:04,880 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think we're dealing with the smartest, 1482 01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:06,200 Speaker 3: you know, the brightest bulbaing. 1483 01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:09,840 Speaker 6: Okay, wait, this is my this is my question. How 1484 01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,120 Speaker 6: long has she been decomposing for? Like? Are we too 1485 01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:15,960 Speaker 6: assuming that she's been dead since she went missing? Whoa? 1486 01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:16,639 Speaker 3: No? 1487 01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:17,439 Speaker 8: Close to him? 1488 01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:20,639 Speaker 1: I had read reports that said close to a month. Yeah, 1489 01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:23,559 Speaker 1: but it was you know, like, who's to really say? 1490 01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:27,679 Speaker 1: And that again, the autopsy results haven't been released yet 1491 01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:30,000 Speaker 1: and that does take a second, so there's no real 1492 01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:31,920 Speaker 1: cause of death in this exact moment yet. 1493 01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:36,840 Speaker 4: The authorities estimate that her body was placed in the 1494 01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:40,280 Speaker 4: trunk about five days before it was impounded, and of 1495 01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:43,000 Speaker 4: course it was then impounded for several days before it 1496 01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:44,160 Speaker 4: was opened. 1497 01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:46,960 Speaker 3: Gosh, okay, can I can I talk about the song 1498 01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,400 Speaker 3: really quick? Yeah? Okay, So, which which one the one 1499 01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:53,439 Speaker 3: that has her lyrics in it. So okay, yeah, the 1500 01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:56,719 Speaker 3: track it was leaked on SoundCloud in December of twenty 1501 01:18:56,800 --> 01:19:03,080 Speaker 3: twenty three, okay, and it's called Celeste Demo on Thin Okay, 1502 01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:07,080 Speaker 3: so this is obviously prior to her death. Okay, long 1503 01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:09,960 Speaker 3: prior to her death. And the singer mentioned Celeste twice 1504 01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:13,479 Speaker 3: in the song, saying, Oh Celeste, the girl with my 1505 01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:17,400 Speaker 3: name tattooed on her chest, smell her on my clothes 1506 01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:20,080 Speaker 3: like cigarettes. I hear her voice each time I take 1507 01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:25,080 Speaker 3: a breath. I'm obsessed. And then, oh, Celeste, afraid you'll 1508 01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:29,280 Speaker 3: only love me when undressed, But you look so gorgeous 1509 01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:32,360 Speaker 3: in that dress. Missing you so much makes me depressed, 1510 01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:37,400 Speaker 3: But I digress. What these are stupid? This guy's are relinguist. 1511 01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:40,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, come on, yeah, I'm going to hope that Taha's 1512 01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:44,360 Speaker 1: theory is correct. And then maybe somebody, maybe in his 1513 01:19:44,479 --> 01:19:48,920 Speaker 1: circle or a total stranger, has stolen his car that 1514 01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:51,000 Speaker 1: was probably in the driveway because he was. 1515 01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:53,120 Speaker 3: That just happens to have his girlfriend in the trunk. 1516 01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:57,240 Speaker 1: And maybe she was there and they took her and 1517 01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:59,920 Speaker 1: put her in the trunk. Maybe and maybe the morning 1518 01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:04,440 Speaker 1: and hopefully hopefully not burying her in Colorado. 1519 01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:05,439 Speaker 3: This is awful. 1520 01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:08,160 Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm trying to find good andful. Have to talk 1521 01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:08,599 Speaker 8: to a man. 1522 01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:11,760 Speaker 6: Okay, Well, while we're talking lyrics, this is the chorus 1523 01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:14,600 Speaker 6: of romantic homicide. In the back of my mind, you 1524 01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:17,080 Speaker 6: died and I didn't even cry, not a single tear. 1525 01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:19,160 Speaker 6: That's literally the chorus it is. 1526 01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:23,160 Speaker 3: But that was really that the song that was really Celeste. 1527 01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:27,000 Speaker 8: No, that's the difference. This other song is romantic homicide. 1528 01:20:28,280 --> 01:20:29,360 Speaker 3: Much better cure. 1529 01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:34,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's also kind of a dark title, it is. 1530 01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:35,960 Speaker 6: And then you go out to say I killed you 1531 01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:38,120 Speaker 6: and I didn't even regret it. I can't believe I 1532 01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:39,240 Speaker 6: said it, but it's true. 1533 01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,240 Speaker 3: But it's important to know though, right that that was 1534 01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:46,400 Speaker 3: released a while ago, she too, was so less already 1535 01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:49,519 Speaker 3: missing at that point. Yes, no, she's not. In twenty 1536 01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:52,040 Speaker 3: twenty two, no no, no, she was at home. But 1537 01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:54,960 Speaker 3: they had met so my film, No, no thank you. 1538 01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:57,720 Speaker 3: We know that three years ago they had met. It's 1539 01:20:57,760 --> 01:20:59,360 Speaker 3: twenty It was around that time. 1540 01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:02,679 Speaker 8: Wasn't it if he was eighteen and she was so powesome? 1541 01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:03,519 Speaker 3: Maybe right? 1542 01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:03,960 Speaker 8: Maybe? 1543 01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:09,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, we just it is so painful watching all 1544 01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:10,040 Speaker 1: of us try to do math. 1545 01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:11,960 Speaker 8: I know that. 1546 01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:15,600 Speaker 3: Visual of all of us thinking was not great. Car 1547 01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:18,719 Speaker 3: Literally that was. 1548 01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:22,240 Speaker 8: With the other day the body was found. She was 1549 01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:26,559 Speaker 8: missing at thirteen and he's not add anyway. 1550 01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:29,719 Speaker 3: The math is not mathod Yeah bad. 1551 01:21:30,280 --> 01:21:32,120 Speaker 1: Can we get to talk back in do we think 1552 01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:33,240 Speaker 1: before the night is? 1553 01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:34,840 Speaker 8: I think we got enough time. 1554 01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:36,639 Speaker 3: Let's do it. Let's get a few more if we can. 1555 01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:44,639 Speaker 9: Hey guy from Canada, Hi, I'm wondering if you would 1556 01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:49,280 Speaker 9: cover the Qcaux murder one time and the work you. 1557 01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:56,439 Speaker 8: Do by oh wow wow wow request especially, it would 1558 01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:59,439 Speaker 8: be an interesting one to cover. So we brought that 1559 01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:00,400 Speaker 8: up for your. 1560 01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,080 Speaker 3: Next to it is and guess what you know who 1561 01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:05,559 Speaker 3: kind of is assessed of that one? Indy Andy can 1562 01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:08,880 Speaker 3: do it together. And by the Waydy, let's do it next. 1563 01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,599 Speaker 3: We should do it because Diddy's going back to court. 1564 01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:14,919 Speaker 1: And there's also a very obvious connection between the Tupac 1565 01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:19,640 Speaker 1: story and Diddy because under plegedly, Dinny and Nicky. 1566 01:22:19,479 --> 01:22:21,400 Speaker 3: Were in blah blah blah. You'll have to tell us 1567 01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:21,920 Speaker 3: how I will. 1568 01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:24,000 Speaker 8: I love it. I'm going to dig into it. My 1569 01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:26,519 Speaker 8: only fear is there's a lot of gang talk and 1570 01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:28,680 Speaker 8: you know the Red and Blue, so I wear both 1571 01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:30,000 Speaker 8: of those colors, so I don't want to have a 1572 01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:33,080 Speaker 8: look in both of them. Okay, all right, but no, 1573 01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:36,160 Speaker 8: we'll cover that that's been one that that has been 1574 01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:38,280 Speaker 8: one that I've been fascinated by, so we'll dig into 1575 01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:38,639 Speaker 8: me too. 1576 01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:40,640 Speaker 3: Actually, I'm very interested in that one. And you know 1577 01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:41,559 Speaker 3: it's local to me. 1578 01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:43,519 Speaker 8: Yeah, very local to me. 1579 01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:45,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. And so I guess we have another talk back, 1580 01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:46,240 Speaker 3: can we here? 1581 01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:47,120 Speaker 8: Let's do it? 1582 01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:50,840 Speaker 11: Hi, True Crime tonight. This is Erica from Upstate New York. 1583 01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:54,719 Speaker 11: I was just listening to Monday's show and you said 1584 01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:58,559 Speaker 11: that you love talkbacks about positive things in somebody's life. 1585 01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:01,360 Speaker 11: So I wanted to share is that I am going 1586 01:23:01,439 --> 01:23:06,479 Speaker 11: to Nashville in your smour to try on wedding dresses 1587 01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:09,880 Speaker 11: for the first time for my wedding next year. I 1588 01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:12,919 Speaker 11: really hope that I run into you, Stephanie, allegedly. 1589 01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:19,479 Speaker 3: Allegedly, I'll go wedding shopping with you. Baby, you tell 1590 01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:20,280 Speaker 3: me where to be. 1591 01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:20,840 Speaker 8: I bet you. 1592 01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:25,200 Speaker 3: I'm real good at that. That's a that's a category. 1593 01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:30,240 Speaker 3: That's great. That is entratulations. Let the kick off to 1594 01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:31,559 Speaker 3: the happy news talking. 1595 01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:34,599 Speaker 8: Yeah, yes, more happy news please? 1596 01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:36,439 Speaker 3: Good. 1597 01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:39,679 Speaker 4: That is such an exciting moment. I hope you really 1598 01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:43,519 Speaker 4: love it, like I remember so much trying dresses on 1599 01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:46,439 Speaker 4: and and I am not a girly girl. 1600 01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:48,200 Speaker 3: I think that's fair to say. 1601 01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:50,880 Speaker 1: You have to know you, like all of us that 1602 01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:53,800 Speaker 1: you were, we are sometimes so girly and. 1603 01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:58,080 Speaker 4: Sometimes it's not. Yeah, that's accurate. But it felt like magic, 1604 01:23:58,120 --> 01:24:00,000 Speaker 4: and I hope you feel like magic. And I'm sure 1605 01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:02,200 Speaker 4: or you will feel like magic when you find that dress. 1606 01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:04,880 Speaker 3: And she's stressed. It sounds like to go try these travels? 1607 01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:09,840 Speaker 3: Where is she coming from? I once follow up? Yeah 1608 01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:13,639 Speaker 3: she sat upstate, New York. Oh, right, up New York. 1609 01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:17,360 Speaker 3: Oh maybe she's probably an all New Yorker. Right, My goodness, 1610 01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:20,559 Speaker 3: this is you guys. You guys are meant to Are 1611 01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:21,280 Speaker 3: we going to say. 1612 01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:23,120 Speaker 8: Yes, he's dress or what let's do it? 1613 01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:26,519 Speaker 3: You're like a big bridle like thing in Nashville or something? 1614 01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:28,720 Speaker 3: Is there? Like is it a destination for weddings? I 1615 01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:32,439 Speaker 3: don't know, or maybe she's just getting married. I got 1616 01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:37,000 Speaker 3: married in Connecticut, and so I also flew and my 1617 01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:38,760 Speaker 3: dress was in Connecticut. 1618 01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:41,920 Speaker 4: Oh so frustrating though for like fittings and stuff. No, 1619 01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:45,559 Speaker 4: it was a very My engagement was so short. People 1620 01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:48,479 Speaker 4: actually thought I was Several people ask me if I 1621 01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:51,640 Speaker 4: was pregnant. We were only engaged for fourteen weeks, so 1622 01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:53,200 Speaker 4: it's not like there were a lot of childs. 1623 01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:54,440 Speaker 8: I try to. 1624 01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:56,839 Speaker 3: Travel with a wedding dress, I don't you am. 1625 01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:59,800 Speaker 4: My mom had you know? It was she wanted me 1626 01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:03,440 Speaker 4: to go to this whatever. The tailor who makes the dresses. 1627 01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:05,040 Speaker 3: It was okay, So maybe it's something like that. 1628 01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:08,600 Speaker 1: Then this is why Courtney was the opposite of a bridezilla, 1629 01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:11,240 Speaker 1: because that's what's why she's cool, because yeah, she's very girly. 1630 01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:13,880 Speaker 1: But then that's a pretty good statement that you can 1631 01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:16,760 Speaker 1: hang Courtney or I'm strong that you just got that 1632 01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:20,760 Speaker 1: going and record time. Well huge congratulations. Yeah, I feel 1633 01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:22,880 Speaker 1: like that's so nice to end on a high note. 1634 01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:24,559 Speaker 8: Wasn't it, because this has been a tough week so 1635 01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:26,200 Speaker 8: we needed some happy energy. 1636 01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:30,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, big smile to the group. I love you guys. 1637 01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:32,200 Speaker 3: Listen again, big night, Aman and Ox. 1638 01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:35,599 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us into Taha into Ava and 1639 01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:40,520 Speaker 1: Adam and Sam and Courtney and body Oscar in our hearts. 1640 01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:43,519 Speaker 1: I love you, guys. Let's have a great tonight and 1641 01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:46,720 Speaker 1: a wonderful weekend. Everybody stays safe out there and have 1642 01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:49,880 Speaker 1: a great weekend. 1643 01:25:48,640 --> 01:26:09,559 Speaker 4: And back at you and good night from the studio 1644 01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:12,040 Speaker 4: who brought you the piked in Masaker and murder one 1645 01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:15,040 Speaker 4: oh one? This is in Cells. 1646 01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:18,040 Speaker 3: I am a loser, but also woman know what and 1647 01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:18,959 Speaker 3: dami either. 1648 01:26:19,320 --> 01:26:23,440 Speaker 4: From the dark corners of the web an emerging mindset. 1649 01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:28,600 Speaker 3: I can't have you girls, I will destroy you. 1650 01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:32,760 Speaker 4: A kind of subculture, a hidden world of resentment, cynicism, 1651 01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:33,960 Speaker 4: anger against women. 1652 01:26:34,160 --> 01:26:37,320 Speaker 2: This is a wake up call for how we think 1653 01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:38,480 Speaker 2: about manhood. 1654 01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:43,840 Speaker 3: A seed of loneliness explodes. I just hate myself. I 1655 01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:46,080 Speaker 3: don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me, but 1656 01:26:46,120 --> 01:26:48,920 Speaker 3: I will punish you all for it. That was the 1657 01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:52,439 Speaker 3: point where I realized I can't help him. He doesn't 1658 01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:56,040 Speaker 3: want it. At a deadly tipping point, In Cells will 1659 01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:57,839 Speaker 3: be added to the Terrorism Guide. 1660 01:26:58,040 --> 01:27:01,960 Speaker 11: Please say a driver intentionally drove into a crowd, killing 1661 01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:02,719 Speaker 11: ten people. 1662 01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:06,040 Speaker 3: I just told my husband I know she's dead. 1663 01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:10,760 Speaker 4: Tomorrow is the day of retribution, the day in which 1664 01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:13,400 Speaker 4: I will have my revenge. 1665 01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:17,320 Speaker 3: This is in Cells. How does it feel if you 1666 01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:21,040 Speaker 3: could just drop that any minute and nobody will even notice. 1667 01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:24,240 Speaker 4: Listen to season one of In Cells starting September twenty 1668 01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:27,960 Speaker 4: fourth on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you 1669 01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:29,360 Speaker 4: get your podcasts.