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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert lam. Hey, I'm Christian Sager, and

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Speaker 1: this week i'm Stuff to bow your Mind. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about ancient text ancient books, ancient tones of knowledge, kind

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Speaker 1: of uh away, kind of spin off from our earlier

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Speaker 1: or more episode. Yeah, this is very connected and it

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Speaker 1: also made me it not only did it make me

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Speaker 1: think of that, but also like any fiction that surrounds

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Speaker 1: like occult texts or old ancient texts that have hidden

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Speaker 1: meetings or secrets hidden away in them, this is for you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because we're talking about lost text We're talking about texts

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Speaker 1: that have been written over, that have been erased, essentially

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Speaker 1: the data recovery of of texts dating back centuries or

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Speaker 1: even thousands of years. Yeah, and it's very specifically. These

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Speaker 1: are called palamp sests. And I may pronounce that wrong

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Speaker 1: throughout the podcast, but I'm I think that's how you

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Speaker 1: say it. Yeah. Uh So these are essentially books that

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Speaker 1: were made with they were made from the hides of

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Speaker 1: sheep or cattle. Uh And and as such, you could

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Speaker 1: scrape off the ink of them and reuse the whole

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Speaker 1: thing all over again to write a whole new book

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Speaker 1: on top of it. Yeah. The word itself comes from

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Speaker 1: from the Greek um palem sessed, meaning scraped or rubbed again. Um,

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Speaker 1: although the membranes of the palem sessh that we're looking

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Speaker 1: at here, Uh, we're we're not usually scrubbed additional times.

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Speaker 1: But but sometimes it just depends on how much use

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Speaker 1: it was getting it. A lot of it really comes

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Speaker 1: down to just the value and the scarcity of of

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Speaker 1: of parchment. Yeah. Absolutely, there's a whole sort of I guess,

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Speaker 1: intellectual economy surrounding these things about what is important contextually

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Speaker 1: at the time, what is not, what what's valued the most?

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Speaker 1: You know, we'll see what a lot of these examples

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Speaker 1: that at the time that they were being erased, religion

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Speaker 1: was more valuable than say math, so math documents were erased. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's also helpful to think about it and in

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Speaker 1: the modern way that we use our various media and

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Speaker 1: and use it to record what's important to us. Um.

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Speaker 1: I instantly think about VHS tapes because I use so

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Speaker 1: much in my my youth, particularly like the imagine. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people can relate on this. We have those

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Speaker 1: really old tapes. They you had them for years and

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Speaker 1: years and you had what you know, six hours extended

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Speaker 1: play on there. And so the life of one of

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Speaker 1: those tapes um A lot of it's essentially lost because

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Speaker 1: you can't retrieve any information from it. But it might

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Speaker 1: start off by say, oh, there's a movie coming on

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Speaker 1: on T and T. I want to tape it, So

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave leave it on, I'm gonna start recording.

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Speaker 1: So you end up with two hours of some B

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Speaker 1: movie you want to see, followed by another two hour

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Speaker 1: movie that you're not really that interested in, and then

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Speaker 1: like late nine infommercials right right, And then you had

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Speaker 1: to time it exactly right, you know, if you wanted

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Speaker 1: to record over the second movie so that you could

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Speaker 1: use the tape to its fullest extent or something like that.

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Speaker 1: I remember always trying to like reverse and and time

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Speaker 1: it just perfectly. You know. It's kind of like making

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Speaker 1: a mixtape in a way with these sets. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you got fancy, you you try and edit out

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Speaker 1: the commercials right and uh, and then every time you

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Speaker 1: would have like you would add new media. Because I

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Speaker 1: particularly remember it's like i'd have a tape that would

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Speaker 1: start with taping some movie and then I'm taping episodes

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Speaker 1: of Mystery Science Theater three thousand on there. Then I'm

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Speaker 1: taping like individual wrestling matches from late nineteen nineties, uh

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Speaker 1: pro wrestling TV shows, and so the connective tissue between

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Speaker 1: these things will be this like distorted see of of

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Speaker 1: weird fragments, right, Yeah, you get that effect, which I

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Speaker 1: believe our producer Tyler used a great effect in the

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Speaker 1: Monster Science series that you guys did if anybody hasn't

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Speaker 1: seen that, it's a video series that we did here

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Speaker 1: at How Stuff Works, where Robert explains the science behind

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Speaker 1: your favorite monsters. But Tyler used a really cool effect

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Speaker 1: by making it look like that VHS thing where it's

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Speaker 1: blending just between the two or maybe there's like maybe

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Speaker 1: there's that one little blip of white static just between

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Speaker 1: between the two recordings. You know. It also reminds me

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Speaker 1: of a bit from comedian Camail No Johnny, Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you heard this, I have. I'm a I'm a big

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Speaker 1: fan of Camail's actually and his podcasts The Indoor Kids

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Speaker 1: and the X Files Files. Yeah, he does that bit

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Speaker 1: about how when he when he was a kid, he

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Speaker 1: used to like take like like like rated G family

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Speaker 1: movies and record porno reels in the middle of them, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like like he had a friend who had, you know,

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Speaker 1: through the sort of the underground connections there and in Pakistan,

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Speaker 1: had acquired these adult films and then he would take

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Speaker 1: the scenes safely in the middle of you know, like

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Speaker 1: the Lion King or something. Yeah, Lion King dress. The

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Speaker 1: kind of takes that you would innocently have at that age,

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Speaker 1: but he would use them to store this forbidden data. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So if anyone hasn't heard that, check out his his

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Speaker 1: comedy albums, because he has a whole bit about having

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Speaker 1: one of those tapes and and then the power going

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Speaker 1: off and being stuck in the family VCR. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: think that album is called Beta Mail. Yeah, I believe

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Speaker 1: really good stuff, highly recommended. Well I don't. Of course,

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Speaker 1: podcasts themselves are palimpsests in a way. Right. Every time

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Speaker 1: you download a new episode of stuff to blow your

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Speaker 1: mind to your phone or your tablet or whatever, you've

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Speaker 1: got to make more room on the hard drive, so

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Speaker 1: you delete an older episode, whether it's you know, of course,

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Speaker 1: you're not deleting one of our episodes you're keeping all

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Speaker 1: the whole archive there. But but you know that I

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Speaker 1: end up doing that quite a bit where I go, Okay,

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Speaker 1: which one of these things do I want to keep?

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Speaker 1: Which one can I get rid of? You know that

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Speaker 1: I've listened to and I'm satisfied with. Uh. And so

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Speaker 1: in a way, they sound sort of work like that.

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Speaker 1: Although I wonder if there's going to be a period

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Speaker 1: of time, like two hundred three hundred years in the future,

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Speaker 1: where people are able to take our phones and sort

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Speaker 1: of like look at the hard drives and peel back

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Speaker 1: the layers to find these lost podcasts. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: data recovery with computers is obviously more complex than than

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Speaker 1: than VHS. You you have it like a deleted photo

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Speaker 1: card for a phone, uh, and it seems like you've

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Speaker 1: lost everything, but that data can sometimes be recovered. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And and it's it's certainly more difficult than you know. Well,

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Speaker 1: although this sounds pretty difficult, like pouring acid on cattle skins,

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Speaker 1: are just scraping it with a knife. And in a

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Speaker 1: lot of cases, you know, present day cases that we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about, they're using some pretty high technology like infrared

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Speaker 1: imaging and things like that let's see the ink under

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Speaker 1: all the layers. But I like to mention of the

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Speaker 1: podcast example because because because some of the same energies

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Speaker 1: are going to be in played when we talk about

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Speaker 1: why particular texts were lost, why they were written over,

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Speaker 1: you know, because a lot of it comes down to,

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Speaker 1: you know, what am I into right now? Maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: not into Marin's podcast as much right now, So I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna delete it and then maybe I come back to

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Speaker 1: it later. Maybe I'm muh, I've already listened to it,

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Speaker 1: to this episode. I'm not interested in this new you

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Speaker 1: know ideas episodes, So I'm just gonna go ahead and

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Speaker 1: trash that now. Yeah. Yeah, it comes down to a

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Speaker 1: scarcity of resources, right, So like in in the time

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Speaker 1: that these were being made, it was a scarcity of

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Speaker 1: parchment in particular, and uh, and and also paper they

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Speaker 1: just we're barely using paper at all. And then there

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Speaker 1: was also the fluctuation of intellectual activity between these scholars. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this was really interesting. Um. It's worth noting that palend

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Speaker 1: tests uh seemed to suggest you not only the scarcity

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Speaker 1: of paper, but also uh, the hunger for knowledge and

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Speaker 1: the demand for new texts demand that the even wealthy

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Speaker 1: centers of learning had difficulty keeping up with. And this

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Speaker 1: is backed up by the fact that the number of

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Speaker 1: palend tests appears to increase in greater ratio during periods

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Speaker 1: of intense intellectual activity, more so than it does did

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Speaker 1: during periods of economic decline. So there was more more

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Speaker 1: erasure and overwriting of texts just because yeah, just when

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Speaker 1: there was more exciting stuff. So it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: it's a golden age of podcast there's so many podcasts,

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Speaker 1: so we're it's has to do more with the what's

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Speaker 1: available to us rather than just how much space is

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Speaker 1: in the future, they're just going to find episodes of

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Speaker 1: Sereal and then they'll they'll peel them back and they'll

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Speaker 1: find our episodes underneath them. That's right, just a few

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Speaker 1: from not only serial exists, that's the only one. All

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Speaker 1: podcasts will be about investigations into murders. So we can

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Speaker 1: basically um discuss the reasons for erasure under three categories.

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Speaker 1: First of all, obsolescence, So a text is erased and

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Speaker 1: something else has written on top of it because well,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's it's legal, or it's liturgical in nature, and

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Speaker 1: it's just no longer relevant you know, it's like having

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Speaker 1: an old football game on a VHS tape. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like you've already seen that game. It's not current,

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Speaker 1: wasn't a particularly great game anyway, Why should I keep it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Or it's an older translation. Yeah. In some of these cases,

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Speaker 1: the scholars that were scraping the palemp sets, you know,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just that they thought, okay, this is unimportant.

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Speaker 1: They also thought, oh, maybe we actually already have copies

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Speaker 1: of this somewhere else, right, And as we'll learn, those

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Speaker 1: copies either ended up getting destroyed or lost in their

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Speaker 1: own way. Yeah. Other times it's an older translation. There's

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Speaker 1: a better version of that book. Why would you keep

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Speaker 1: the old one? Uh? The text is in a foreign

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Speaker 1: or just a lost language. So this text is just

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Speaker 1: taking up space on the on the bookshelf, in the

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Speaker 1: in the you know, why should I bother keeping it?

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Speaker 1: I can put something more valuable in there? Um Or

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Speaker 1: it's a it's an in familiar script, it's particularly difficult

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Speaker 1: to read, it's not a usable text, or it's largely

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Speaker 1: damaged and no longer useful as a tone of knowledge.

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Speaker 1: And then also literary texts plays a big role here.

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Speaker 1: So just as pagan myths often mingle with Christian beliefs,

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Speaker 1: so do too many pagan classics exist buried beneath Christian texts.

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Speaker 1: And they're kind of two ways of looking at that, right,

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Speaker 1: Like one is to say that it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: war on belief, right, that it's Christianity erasing, like literally

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Speaker 1: erasing and overriding older systems. Yeah, it's that old with

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Speaker 1: the adage goes the to the victor's go history or

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Speaker 1: history is written by the winners, that's it. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: in that sense, they sort of won the philosophical war

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Speaker 1: at the time, so they were able to take the

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Speaker 1: information as it was and literally rewrite it. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: you can kind of see it as you can just

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Speaker 1: kind of look at it from more of a nasty

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Speaker 1: perspective versus more just sort of than the nature of

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Speaker 1: what is popular and what is interesting. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: almost like gentrification, you know. Yeah, there's a um there, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think there there's something interesting going on, especially when

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Speaker 1: you consider the things that were being erased in some

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Speaker 1: of these examples, like the fact that we were erasing

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Speaker 1: Archimedes mathematical theories, shows what the culture valued at the time.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting to think, you know too, that we're living

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Speaker 1: in an age where a book could disappear, Like we're

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Speaker 1: living in a phenomen I'm an all period now where

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Speaker 1: it's increasingly hard for particularly popular text to vanish from

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Speaker 1: the face of the here. Yeah, do you think that

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Speaker 1: could happen now? Like, so, let's say I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: think of an enormously popular text that we've all read,

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Speaker 1: fifty Shades of All right, I've not read it, but

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Speaker 1: let's pretend I have fifty Shades of Gray. How do

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Speaker 1: we it gets completely wiped off the face of the planet.

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Speaker 1: So we've got to destroy all the physical copies, We've

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Speaker 1: got to destroy the electronic copies that are out there

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Speaker 1: now because of the books. And then what else? Well, um,

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Speaker 1: I instantly turned to Ray Bradberry fare and h fourth

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Speaker 1: fifty one. You'd have to go after the individuals who

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Speaker 1: have made it there their mission to memorize fifty Shades

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Speaker 1: of Gray and carry it around. That's actually quite a

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Speaker 1: few people, Okay, Okay, But then at that point we're

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Speaker 1: looking at this dystopian future in which no one's ever

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Speaker 1: heard of fifty Shades of Gray, but they somehow find

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Speaker 1: an old iPod that has sorry no, an old kindle

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Speaker 1: and they're able to somehow pull it up off of

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Speaker 1: the hard drive on that kindle and they find this

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Speaker 1: lost text. Yeah. Or you know, another way to think

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Speaker 1: about it too is you may have lost fifty shades

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Speaker 1: of gray, but you have reviews that refer to it

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Speaker 1: passages that have appeared from it, so you maybe have

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Speaker 1: little bits and pieces of it, but the entire text

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Speaker 1: itself is missing. That's sort of what's going on with

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Speaker 1: some of these examples. They knew that these books had

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Speaker 1: existed previously, but they didn't have copies of them, so

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Speaker 1: it's sort of like only the Amazon reviews were left online,

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Speaker 1: but the book itself was not right. You know. I

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Speaker 1: actually worked on a book kind of like this. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It was a previous life before I worked here at

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Speaker 1: How Stuff Works, and I was doing graphic design on

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Speaker 1: a book for Harvard University about the Iliad, and they

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Speaker 1: had found this was not a palace, sessed by the

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Speaker 1: way that it had not been written over, but it

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Speaker 1: was a very ancient copy of the Iliad UH called

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Speaker 1: the venus A And it was I believe in Venice,

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Speaker 1: Italy that they found it, and in order to make

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Speaker 1: it readable so that scholars could participate and kind of

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Speaker 1: look at it and compare and contrast it to other copies,

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Speaker 1: they had to scan it with like a like a

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Speaker 1: three D almost like a three D printer scanner. It

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Speaker 1: scanned the topography of the pages. Because the book is

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Speaker 1: so old and delicate, they couldn't move it. Okay, you

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Speaker 1: can't just throw it on the xerox machine, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you like, moving a page in this book

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Speaker 1: is like, you know, a big deal because you could

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Speaker 1: potentially destroy it. It's so brittle. Um. So, just working

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Speaker 1: on that project and how delicately they treated the text

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Speaker 1: before they copied it, it really gave me kind of

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Speaker 1: an impression as I was reading about these examples here

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Speaker 1: of what these sort of archivist archaeologists almost went through

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Speaker 1: trying to dig up these old texts, which far more

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Speaker 1: difficult because they're literally buried under other layers of ink. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, with this example you've mentioned, I mean, to

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Speaker 1: touch the text is to risk destroying it absolutely, and

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Speaker 1: then to reveal something just beneath the visible text is

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Speaker 1: to destroy it a little bit. Yeah, exactly, they have

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Speaker 1: to make a decision like what what is of more

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Speaker 1: value destroying this ancient text, uh, so that we can

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Speaker 1: have access to an even older one, or is it

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Speaker 1: more valuable to hold onto this ancient text and maybe

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Speaker 1: not know what's underneath it? Now. One of the most

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Speaker 1: notable early examples of palm test recovery comes to us

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Speaker 1: from nineteenth century Italian priest and classical literature professor Angelo

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Speaker 1: my uh. And he made his name rediscovering medieval palms tests.

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Speaker 1: And he wasn't the first to find one, but he

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Speaker 1: was the first to really dig for them in earnest

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Speaker 1: So around eighteen nineteen, he's he's serving as a Vatican

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Speaker 1: librarian and he comes across a copy of Augustine's Psalms. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know nothing, nothing particularly amazing about this book, but

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Speaker 1: underneath it, when he starts uh probing a little, um,

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Speaker 1: he discovers that there is a copy of Cicero's De Republica.

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Speaker 1: So how did he like, how do how do how

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Speaker 1: do you see this? But this is the hard part

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Speaker 1: for me, Like, and I was looking for imagery of

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Speaker 1: this too, I'm having a hard time imagining the scenario.

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Speaker 1: So he's looking at the parchment and he can see

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Speaker 1: like maybe faint traces of ink leftover underneath the newer

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Speaker 1: layer of ink. Yeah. Basically, I mean these texts are old,

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Speaker 1: and so they're decaying a little bit. Often are they've

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Speaker 1: been damaged here and there, and sometimes that damage reveals

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Speaker 1: the text underneath. Other times, especially with my like, he

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Speaker 1: knows those texts are out there, he knows those palum

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Speaker 1: tests are out there, so he's maybe actively scraping a

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Speaker 1: little bit here and there, trying to just just test

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Speaker 1: the waters and see if there's something interesting beneath the surface.

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Speaker 1: And in this case he did. He found a lost text. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Sister Rose d Republica, a controversial at the time dialogue

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Speaker 1: on Roman politics. Uh. And this is a this is

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Speaker 1: fourth century Roman Empire stuff. So all right, maybe this

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Speaker 1: is a good analogy for how this works, sort of

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Speaker 1: something that we can all picture. It's sort of like

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Speaker 1: if you take a notepad and somebody's written on the

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Speaker 1: first layer of paper on the notepad and then they

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Speaker 1: ripped that off, and then you take a pencil to

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Speaker 1: the next layer underneath, and you shade it in so

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Speaker 1: you can see the impression left behind by what was

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Speaker 1: written on top of it. This is like a reverse version.

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Speaker 1: You're of course, referring to the famous Jackie Treehorn. Exactly

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Speaker 1: what I was thinking of in my head was the

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Speaker 1: big Lebowski palam sesst Yes, so that's similar here. Instead

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Speaker 1: of finding, you know, a pornographic doodle, Yeah, he finds

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Speaker 1: a pivotal text stuff from the details, the rise of

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Speaker 1: Julius c. Easier, the eventual fall of the Roman Republic,

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Speaker 1: the emergence of the Roman Empire. Um. And this is

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Speaker 1: a book that the scholars knew had once existed because

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Speaker 1: it's referenced in other works, you know, as zim Burrow

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Speaker 1: echo points out, books speak of books as if they

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Speaker 1: spoke among themselves. Um. But anyway, it ends up getting

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Speaker 1: lost centuries later, and we have only fragments, and even

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Speaker 1: today only fragments of book four and five in the

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Speaker 1: Republic are available to us. I get. I couldn't find

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Speaker 1: any clear argument as to why this book was lost,

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Speaker 1: so maybe someone can fill us in on that. But um,

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Speaker 1: as discussed earlier, we can chalk this up to to

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Speaker 1: various reasons, to taste, to to the scarcity of materials,

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Speaker 1: ETCETERA possible political controversy too, Yeah, yeah, especially earlier it

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Speaker 1: was intentionally destroyed. Yeah, maybe so, yeah, especially given it's

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Speaker 1: it's an initial controversial nature. I wonder what umberto Echo

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Speaker 1: thinks about Amazon reviews. They're like importance in the philosophical

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Speaker 1: history of human nature. I don't know, Sam, have him

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Speaker 1: on the show and asking that that would be fabulous.

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Speaker 1: It's the kind of thing that he would, he would.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he actually has opinions. Yeah, I'm being facetious,

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Speaker 1: of course, but I'm sure he actually has deep thoughts

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Speaker 1: about because that's a glorious thing about eco. It's like

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Speaker 1: he's interested in everything from medieval poverty heresies to hum

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Speaker 1: superhero superheroes adults. I mean, yeah, how to travel with

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Speaker 1: the salmon, it's, etcetera. Okay, So the next really important

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Speaker 1: example of a palum test is the modern restoration of Archimedes.

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Speaker 1: And I mentioned this earlier, but it was lost text. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, Archimedes is one of the most celebrated mathematicians

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Speaker 1: of his time. But also you know, we all learn

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Speaker 1: about him when we're in school, at least I guess

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Speaker 1: we're supposed to. Uh. And you know, he invented everything

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Speaker 1: from the screw to catapults and other weapons. I saw

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Speaker 1: that you put a note here that he invented a

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Speaker 1: death ray. Yeah, it's it's been a while since I've

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Speaker 1: done any material and that I think we referenced it

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Speaker 1: in a podcast a while back. But their the their

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Speaker 1: arguments that he may have devised a quote unquote death ray,

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Speaker 1: may have just imagining this like this, like like arcane

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Speaker 1: system of mirrors, like generating a laser beam off of

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Speaker 1: the sun's heat or something like. Yeah, like I think

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Speaker 1: it was essentially a means of blinding or more messing

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Speaker 1: with ships that were well. And then of course he

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Speaker 1: also estimated the value of pie, which is fairly important.

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Speaker 1: It's far more important than theoretical death rays. Well yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you could argue that. Um. So you know he's got

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Speaker 1: let's let's list a couple of his books here, just

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Speaker 1: you know, it's possible that people out there have read

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Speaker 1: them and just don't particularly recognize our comedy's name. But

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Speaker 1: he's got on the method of mechanical theorems on floating

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Speaker 1: bodies and the measurement of the circle. That's probably the

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Speaker 1: pie one on the sphere, and the cylinder on spiral lines.

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Speaker 1: They all there's a theme here on the on the

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Speaker 1: equilibrium of planes. That's the other one so important guy. Right. However,

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Speaker 1: there were only throughout the dark ages of medieval history

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Speaker 1: three surviving works by our comedian. Uh. And one of

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Speaker 1: these three d was lost when Constantinople was sacked in

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Speaker 1: twelve oh four. And this particular palmp test was made

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Speaker 1: out of goat skin. So what ends up going on?

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Speaker 1: This is the book that has the method of mechanical theorems,

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Speaker 1: the first one I mentioned, So it's got. It describes

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Speaker 1: how the law of levers works. It describes how to

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Speaker 1: calculate a body's center of gravity. Uh. There's fourteen pages

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Speaker 1: in it that are rare commentaries by him on the

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Speaker 1: logic of categorization. Now, so this stuff, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: just kind of sounds like I'm breezing through a list

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Speaker 1: of bullet points here, but this is important stuff in

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Speaker 1: the history of mathematics. Um. There's ten pages recording two

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Speaker 1: unknown speeches by a guy named hyper perridities Hyperides, who

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Speaker 1: is an order from fourth century BC. And two things

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Speaker 1: that we're in this book that I thought that were

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Speaker 1: particularly unusual. Apparently he had a unique way of describing

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Speaker 1: infinity that mathematicians or his historians had not seen before

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Speaker 1: in a text like this. So that was an important

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Speaker 1: aspect of this. The other one was that there was

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Speaker 1: a like a math puzzle that he made in there

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Speaker 1: that was called still Mansion. And I had not heard

392
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Speaker 1: of this before, but like our comedies, was having some

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Speaker 1: fun math games, you know. It was like his version

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Speaker 1: of candy crush, and he had it in this in

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Speaker 1: this palam test. Unfortunately, all that stuff got scraped off.

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Speaker 1: What happened was Constantinople gets sacked. The book makes its

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Speaker 1: way to Bethele him. Nobody knows how, but a Greek

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Speaker 1: priest there scraped and washed the pages so they could

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Speaker 1: apply liturgical text to it instead. Right, so it just

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Speaker 1: is gone for centuries. People don't even know that it exists. Yeah,

401
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: because they they were just like, oh, here's this whole book,

402
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 1: but I actually need the pages for these liturgical materials

403
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Speaker 1: that I need on a daily base exactly. Yeah. Uh,

404
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Speaker 1: And this is it's its story. The history of this

405
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: palmp cessed alone is fascinating. So in nineteen o six,

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Speaker 1: this guy, Johan Ludwig Heiberg finds it okay, very similar

407
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Speaker 1: to the previous example with Angela My he's looking through

408
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Speaker 1: a bunch of palimps, not palmps as parchments in a

409
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Speaker 1: monastery's looking at prayers and he realizes, oh this, I

410
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Speaker 1: think this is, you know, like this important work by Archimedes.

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Speaker 1: So by hand he transcribes everything. He couldn't read some

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Speaker 1: of it though, and he also don't ask me why

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Speaker 1: completely ignored the diagrams, which seems important to me based

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Speaker 1: on my history with math books, but you know, which

415
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Speaker 1: is limited. But anyways, he leaves that out. He's he

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00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: manages to photograph just a couple of pages. Then the

417
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Speaker 1: book disappears again. Uh, it's right after World War One

418
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Speaker 1: when it disappears, and they think that it was probably

419
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Speaker 1: stolen from this monastery. Now who knows. Maybe these people

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Speaker 1: just thought it was more prayers, or maybe they realized

421
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Speaker 1: the importance of it. I was believed to be owned

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Speaker 1: by a French family for most of the twentieth century,

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Speaker 1: and then in this thing just all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: shows up at an auction in New York City and

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Speaker 1: an anonymous collector I'm dying to know who this is,

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Speaker 1: buys it for two million dollars. So this reminds me

427
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 1: of is we we did an episode on this TV

428
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: show just a couple of weeks ago the Strain, and

429
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: there's this whole thing going on in the Strain where

430
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 1: they're trying to get this ancient text at a at

431
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: an auction, you know, and I don't I don't remember

432
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 1: how much it goes for. But this is what I'm

433
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: thinking of while I'm reading about this. Is this Vampire

434
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: TV show. Yeah, that's exactly what's going on in the

435
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: show as we're recording this. Yeah. Yeah, they're trying to

436
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: buy the text and the pad guys, you're trying to

437
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 1: buy the text. Everybody's also trying to just steal the text.

438
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: That's what I imagine is going on here. There's all

439
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: these factions at this New York auction and the anonymous

440
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: collector manages to get it. Now, it's sounds like this

441
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: anonymous collector is a pretty benevolent person because they lent

442
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: it out to the Walters Museum for exhibition. The book

443
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: is in really bad shape. It's burnt, it's torn, there's

444
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 1: holes in all the pages. It's got purple mold covering

445
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: up certain sections of it. So they have to be

446
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: incredibly careful with this thing, uh, and to make it

447
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: even more valuable. One of the previous owners I don't know.

448
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell from the research whether this was the

449
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: French family or somebody before it. They thought that it

450
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: would make it more valuable if they covered it in

451
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 1: gold leaf manuscripts, so they literally painted over this with

452
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 1: this this gold leaf styling. There's a there's a sense

453
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: of a housing restoration and all of this too like imagining,

454
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,479
Speaker 1: Like someone's saying, all right, I want to restore this house.

455
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: But look at somebody came in and they did this

456
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: khaki restoration, and I really want to get back to

457
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: the you know, the heart of the building. Let me

458
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: add some crown molding here, Yeah, exactly. Uh. It was

459
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: so damaged. It took them four years just to slowly

460
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: take the book apart and clean it. Like they didn't

461
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 1: even get to the actual like archiving of this material.

462
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: It was just four years simply to make sure they

463
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: didn't destroy this thing and put it into sort of

464
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,719
Speaker 1: readable condition. You know. In a way, it's it's kind

465
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 1: of lucky for this text that it was a vanished

466
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: for that period of time because because while it was missing,

467
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: Angelo my is essentially kind of destroying a lot of

468
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: throwing acid on books, which you know from today's perspective.

469
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: We look back and we say, he's kind of rough

470
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: with these materials, and in some cases he's destroying one

471
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: ancient text to try and get it another. But those

472
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: methods were I mean, it was kind of they were

473
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: the best methods of the day. And we wouldn't have

474
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: a more refined methods, uh in our modern time, and

475
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: certainly more refined methods to show to throw at this

476
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: Archimedes palem sest if if he had not done the work. That, yeah, absolutely,

477
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: I mean I think that there's probably a case to

478
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: be made that, like, the technology that is available now

479
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: allows us to retain a certain amount of the original documents.

480
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: Aura righte? What what makes it it? However? I wonder

481
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: if a hundred and fifty years from now there's gonna

482
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: be even more technology and they're gonna look at us

483
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 1: as being some kind of barbarians, so they're ripping this

484
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: thing apart, you know. Um. But so what's interesting is

485
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: the way that they they've actually this team has used

486
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: it and they called the book Archie for short for

487
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: our Communities. Um. They imaged it with both ultra violet

488
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: light and X rays from a particle accelerator, So you know,

489
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: you just take one of those out and just pop

490
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: it into the old university scanner. Uh. It's obviously a

491
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 1: very careful procedure. You know, every time they're they're scanning it,

492
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: they have to monitor the temperature and the humidity in

493
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: the room around the book while they're scanning it. And

494
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: this is something I remember from when I worked on

495
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,959
Speaker 1: that venituse a project. I think they did a similar

496
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Always set the proton pact of the

497
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: lowest possible yea, and they can't cross the streams of

498
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: the particle accelerator in the X ray. The last thing

499
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: the X rays this is this part was really cool.

500
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 1: I read this um one of the people who worked

501
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: on the project. I read sort of a feature by

502
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: her where she talked about what it was like like

503
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: a day in the life of working on this book.

504
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 1: She said that the X rays are able to read

505
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: through that gold leaf painting, So that's why they used that.

506
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: What they do is they strike the ink that's on

507
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: the page and they caused the elements inside the ink

508
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: to glow. And in this in some cases they they

509
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: set it so that it will make iron glow. In

510
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: other cases they said it so it will make calcium glow,

511
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: and I think that that's based on you know, how

512
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: old the ink is, when you know, the composition of

513
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,479
Speaker 1: the ink that was probably used. Yeah, yeah, uh, and

514
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: they're able to use you know, these high tech scanners

515
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: that detect this particular kind of fluorescence and they convert

516
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: that into data, which then is converted into particular kinds

517
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: of es on the computer. So this isn't just you know,

518
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 1: you're not just opening up Photoshop and uh thrown it

519
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: on the old bed scanner. Right. Um. You know, so

520
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: far we've talked about a lot of palem says from

521
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: the Christian world, so I think it's it's important to

522
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: touch on some from from outside of Christian Europe. Yeah.

523
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: It's important to note here too that like those previous examples,

524
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,719
Speaker 1: they were within the dark ages. That's when they were

525
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: sort of lost and written over because, like we mentioned earlier,

526
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: religion had more importance to it than say science. However,

527
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 1: there are other examples. I don't want our audience to

528
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: think that this is solely like an effective Christianity, right yeah.

529
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: And one of the one of the examples from the

530
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: Islamic world, uh, comes to us from nineteen seventy two,

531
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: that's when it was discovered. Uh So it's in nineteen

532
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: seventy two, and restoration is in process at the western

533
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: wall of the Great Mosque in Sauna Yemen. Okay, So

534
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: they're restoring h here and they discover a lost storeroom

535
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: and it's filled with manuscript fragments of the Koran Um.

536
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: And this highlights another, you know, key reason for the

537
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: survival of many religious texts. And sometimes they're they're hidden

538
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: poem sets. The reluctance to destroy sacred books. So these

539
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: are copies of the Koran that have worn out from use,

540
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: or they've you know, or they've just degraded over time.

541
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: But it's a it's a sacred text, so you can't

542
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: just throw it out, you can't just burn it. So

543
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: this is a place to put the damage in ruin Korans.

544
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's kind of a nubleat for Koran's. I

545
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: think you're the only person who's ever tried to fit

546
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: those two words into one sentence in the history of mankind.

547
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: Well maybe, But the crazy thing here where it gets interesting.

548
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: It's not just that they found a whole bunch of

549
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: old Korans, but they found a Koran written over the Koran, okay, okay,

550
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: which might not seem like a big deal at first

551
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: because you've written over one text with the same text. Sure,

552
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,719
Speaker 1: but it's probably a different variation exactly. Um. The palm

553
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: Tessed Koran was written just a few decades after the

554
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: death of the prophet Mohammed in six thirty two, and

555
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: so here you have what experts came to consider one

556
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: of the oldest Korans in existence, and it's even a

557
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: pre canonical version of the Koran. So I just remember

558
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: reading a story like three days ago that seems sort

559
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: of controversial about how they had found some copy of

560
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: the Koran that dated to before Mohammed and therefore, like

561
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: it called everything about Islam into question. Did you see that?

562
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: I did, and I was at the time. I was

563
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: reading some of the sources coming out about it, and

564
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: was said, this looks really fascinating. I kind of want

565
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,719
Speaker 1: to wait until more first stance of China, little Lucy

566
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: Goosey to me, and so I didn't put a lot

567
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: of stock into it. But now I'm kind of wondering

568
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: if palam tests were part of that. It depending on

569
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: how real the whole thing is. Too. Yeah, I look

570
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: forward to following following that is is more develops on it.

571
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: But but yeah, it's it's interesting when you get into

572
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: these ancient texts, you're also you're essentially getting into earlier

573
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: drafts of faith and yeah, and that's certainly the case

574
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: with the Sona Qoran. You're seeing sort of a uh,

575
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: you know, an earlier draft of the Koran. Yeah, it's

576
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: sort of like you're watching as like religion adapts to

577
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: society's norms over the period of time, but you're able

578
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: to see it in this one document. Yeah. Well, another

579
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: one that I found was the Sarva Mullah Grant this

580
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: which is apparently attributed to be written by and this

581
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: is going to be a real tough one for me

582
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: to pronounce shre mad Facara sound about right. Sounds written

583
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: somewhere in between twelve thirty eight and thirteen seventeen UM. Now,

584
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: the same team that I was talking about before that

585
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: worked on that Archimedes palam sess they worked on this one.

586
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: It's a seven hundred year old palm leaf manuscript. And

587
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: essentially what this this you know, document contains is the

588
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: essence of Hindu philosophy, so pretty important. Uh, it's thirty

589
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: six works with commentaries that are written in Sanskrit on

590
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: top of sacred Hindu scriptures. So um, each one of

591
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: these leaves is twenty six inches long and two inches wide,

592
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: which seems like a very specific when you think about that,

593
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: like like trying to get that framed, that's going to

594
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,239
Speaker 1: be a custom job. There are on a lot of

595
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: like generic twenty six inch by two inch documents. Yeah,

596
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: there's a documentary title of the Story of India that

597
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: is excellent. It's available i think, on various streaming sources,

598
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: and and there's a portion of that where they're looking

599
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: at old texts and they actually are handling some of

600
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: these palm leaf new scripts and it's really fascinating. Yeah,

601
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: it just sounds really neat just the construction of it.

602
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: It's also so these leaves are bound together with braided cord,

603
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: and they what what's ended up happening because their leaves

604
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: and not like goat skin like these other examples that

605
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: we talked about, is they've turned brown overtime, and it

606
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: makes it really difficult to read the Sanskrit writings there

607
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: on it. So this team spent six days imaging the document.

608
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: They went to Udppe, India and they used an infrared

609
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 1: filter to manipulate the contrast that's between the ink and

610
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: the leaf, so they're able to sort of it's it.

611
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: And again, like I keep using the photoshop example because

612
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: this is what I know from my past history as

613
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,479
Speaker 1: a graphic designer. But it's sort of like playing with

614
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: the curves and photoshop and like making it so the

615
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: ink rises up to the top and as readable with

616
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: the leaf falling into the background. It just sounds really neat.

617
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: One of the things. They decided that they needed to

618
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: store this in a variety of different media so that

619
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: this document wouldn't be lost again. So of course we've

620
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: got you know, electronic copies, books, but you know how

621
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: they decided to store this thing, so that really last

622
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: how they made these things. They call them silicon wafer etchings,

623
00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: and they're apparently these they take aluminum um that ole

624
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: and they etch the words into it, and they use

625
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: these because they're completely fireproof and waterproofs. So like building

626
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: that they're in the library there and could burn down

627
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: or there could be a flood, you can still recover

628
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: these things. Eventually, this sounded fascinating, these stacks of these

629
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: silicon wafers that that's what we need to put fifty

630
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: shades of gray on. Wouldn't be surprised if they're already

631
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: working on it. I think after they got done with

632
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: the Sarvamula grant this, this team moved on to that

633
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: would make sense. The next one we're gonna look at

634
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: is the Norvgarad codex Um, a hyper polem test, if

635
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: you will. So back in two thousand, archaeologists were working

636
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 1: in Norvgorad, Russia, and they discovered an eleventh century triptych

637
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: of waxed limewood tablets. And so this is something that

638
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: the owner of this would have used this over and

639
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: over again, perhaps hundreds of times, writing and rewriting, and

640
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: imagine you apply different layers of wax. I believe so.

641
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: And so this was written. The text here was written

642
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: in Old Church Slavonic using the Cyrillic alphabet, and it

643
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: was important because it's the only medieval object of its

644
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: type in the entire Slavonic world. So the preserve text

645
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: is U this is a seven Psalms and seventy six.

646
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: But that's just that's just the wax, okay, the wood

647
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: underneath the wax. However, so you know the wax coding

648
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: that you're writing, and then underneath the world um very

649
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: much the Jackie treehorn area where the wood underneath that

650
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: wax pers there's faint traces of of earlier lettering, psalms,

651
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: and an assortment of religious works, and taken together, these

652
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: are many times longer than the main text. They include

653
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: various uh texts, including a previously unknown Slavonic text reflecting

654
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: a non canonical brand of Orthodoxy. So again we see

655
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: lost faiths, lost versions of faith buried within these lost texts.

656
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: You know. The whole thing that we're talking about here

657
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: today really reminds me of of something that we're sort

658
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: of lacking in today's society, which is this this physical

659
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: contraption of the book, right like it used to be

660
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: this this tone, you know, and it was made out

661
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: of goat skin or wood covered in wax. But it

662
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: was a real piece of artistry. And with the mass

663
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: production of books that we have now, Don't get me wrong,

664
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: I love them. I read all the time, obviously, but

665
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: like can imagine just owning one of those, just having

666
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: that on your shelf. It's just there's something satisfying about that,

667
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: about the work that was put into it. Yeah, you know,

668
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,760
Speaker 1: it also makes me think a lot about tract changes

669
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: and versions within say a WordPress document or Microsoft Word document,

670
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: where essentially you have in some cases even a hyper

671
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: palam sess, you know, especially because sometimes I'll write over

672
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: I'll use an old document as a template for a

673
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: new document, so I don't I'll say of myself, like

674
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: five seconds of picking out the right font. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

675
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: we do that here at work all the time. Like

676
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: just this morning before we went in, I was working

677
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: on a script with Lauren Vogelbaum, who's on Forward Thinking, uh,

678
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 1: and we were bouncing. We're both in the document at

679
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: the same time, and I said, oh, I just accidentally

680
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: deleted one of the comments. We're gonna need to go

681
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 1: back to a revision from last night. But we could

682
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: only do that, even though we can both work on

683
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: the thing at the same time, we could only really

684
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: talk about the fact that I deleted something that was

685
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: irretrievable unless we went back to an earlier version of

686
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: it because we were sitting there right next to each other. Yeah.

687
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: The collaborative nature of Google Docs. Who's continues to intrigue

688
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: me is that working in these every week, because it's

689
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: just a different it's a different experience writing and reading

690
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 1: than I was used to just a few years. Absolutely,

691
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: and I am under the impression that both the people

692
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: at Google and probably Microsoft and other major corporations that

693
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: make these word processing programs, they're thinking about how we

694
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: use it. I mean, uh, one of the things that's

695
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: interesting about Google Docs is that'll it'll update continuously and

696
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: you don't have to update it yourself. So all of

697
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: a sudden, yesterday I was sitting there working on a

698
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: document from one of our upcoming episodes, and I was like, oh,

699
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: the formatting and this is completely changed, and and everything

700
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: is different all of a sudden, you know. But it's

701
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: because they're probably going through you know, user feedback and

702
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 1: getting a sense for how people use the software. Maybe

703
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: that's kind of part of what's going on here too,

704
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: is that over time, the people working on wooden wax

705
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 1: or palm leaves or whatever sort of learned from their audience.

706
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 1: You know, these look cool, but they're not really practical. Yeah,

707
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing to think about a time in

708
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 1: the future where instead of having like that original manuscript

709
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: of this famous or important um novel, instead what what

710
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: would be submitted you know, for for care in a

711
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: library would be the original word document with full track

712
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: changes the original Google document with all the changes tracked. Yeah,

713
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 1: I um, you know, I worked in libraries before I

714
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: was here, in the special collections and archives area of

715
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,959
Speaker 1: the library that I worked in. This is something that

716
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: they were just starting to deal with. Ye I left

717
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: you like three or four years ago, maybe even a

718
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 1: little further back than that. They're starting to figure out like, okay,

719
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: we're starting to get archives from people that are digitized.

720
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: What's the best way to collect these things and exactly that,

721
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: Like what do you do when you've got ten versions

722
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: of the same word document? You know, save them all

723
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: because that you're an archivist. You save everything that you

724
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: can because who knows what variations between those word documents

725
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: could be important down the road. Yeah, Or you're like me,

726
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: You realize you have like five to ten versions of

727
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: a short story on your computer and you're not really

728
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: sure off hand which one is the most which is

729
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: the one that you want to actually send on Yeah, yeah,

730
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: I've been there. So we've been talking about palms tests

731
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: as historical documents and as a way of digging into

732
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: are written past, but they also serve as an attempting

733
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: metaphor for the brain and even the soul. Yeah. Absolutely,

734
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: there's something to be said about these in terms of

735
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 1: the way that we layer information and how we think

736
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: about information. And I think this is important something important

737
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: to consider nowadays, because we're really in an era where

738
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: it feels like information is that it's prime value. Right,

739
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,959
Speaker 1: Like in our industry, it's referred to as content. Right,

740
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 1: So all this content is important, But what is going

741
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: on with that content and the value of it, Let's say,

742
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: like the value of a BuzzFeed article that is a

743
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: bunch of photos of dogs, cute looking dogs versus uh,

744
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: this podcast. So you've got a kind of weigh the

745
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: two together, right, or in in in what takes up

746
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: you know, hard drive space. Yeah, and then also even

747
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: in the human human mind of course, you know, we

748
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: all have that stuff that's in our heads, some sort

749
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: of trivia that is, you know, objectively useless but subjectively

750
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: important to ourselves. Unless you have, right, unless you have

751
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,959
Speaker 1: like a perfect what is the phrasing athetic memory, then

752
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: you have to sort of over time make decisions on

753
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: what tidbits of information you delete from your your own

754
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: personal hard drive. Yeah, Interestingly enough, one of the one

755
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: of the first people to really think about this and

756
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: write about it was Thomas de Quincy, who most of

757
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: you probably familiar uh with him from his work Confessions

758
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 1: of an English Opium Meter. I know that's the one

759
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,439
Speaker 1: I have the most. I've not read that. It's It's cool,

760
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: it's I did h I think I did a paper

761
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: in college comparing that to Naked Lunch, because you know,

762
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: and essentially both of those you have an author who

763
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: is ingesting a lot of a lot of opium or

764
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,320
Speaker 1: heroin and then writing about fantastical things. So Thomas de

765
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,879
Speaker 1: Quincy is writing about I believe, like crocodiles and and uh.

766
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: And there's some parallels, loose parallel else to be made

767
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: between the two works. But he also wrote the palem

768
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: test of the human brain, published in the book A

769
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: Suspiria de Profundus, and I was, I have not I

770
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: have not read it in full previously, but I was.

771
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: I was looking at it for this episode, and has

772
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: a really trolling intro that is not going to drive

773
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: with modern listeners. He says, you know, perhaps masculine reader,

774
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: better than I can tell you, what is a palem test?

775
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: Possibly you have one in your own library. But yet,

776
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: for the sake of others who may not know or

777
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: may have forgotten, suffer me to explain it here, lest

778
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: any female reader who honors these papers with their notice

779
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 1: should tax me with well, yeah, that's a very particular

780
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: way of of strutting. But i'll i'll read a selection

781
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 1: here from this work that gets more to the heart

782
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: of this than i'll I'll actually drop the accent for it. Okay,

783
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: what else than a natural and mighty palam sest is

784
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 1: the human brain? Such a palam tesst is my brain,

785
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: Such a palam tessed, oh reader, is yours? Everlasting layers

786
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: of ideas, images, feelings have fallen upon your brain softly

787
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: as light. Each succession has seemed to bury all that

788
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: went before, and yet in reality not one has been extinguished.

789
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: And if in the vellum palam sest lying amongst the

790
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: other diplomata of human archives or libraries, there is anything

791
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,879
Speaker 1: fantastic or which moves to laughter, as oftentimes there is

792
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,240
Speaker 1: in the grotesque collisions of the those successive themes having

793
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: no natural connection, which by pure accident have consecutively occupied

794
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: the role. Yet in our own heaven created palam sest,

795
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: the deep memorial palam sest of the brain. There are

796
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: not and cannot be such incoherencies. This guy is that's

797
00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 1: a mouthful. I'm impressed. So here's something that that Maybe

798
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: this wasn't the point that Quincy was going for, but

799
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: this is what just popped into my head while we're

800
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: while you were reading that is that, uh, memory is

801
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: like palam sests. And in the same way that we

802
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: you know how some people like go under hypnosis to

803
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: recover lost memories or or or remember things from their childhood.

804
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: And I know that there's some sort of disputes about

805
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: whether or not that's real or not right, But that's

806
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: sort of like the that's psychology's version of of scraping

807
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: the wax off or scraping the goat skin layers off

808
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: to try to find out what's underneath. It's interesting with

809
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: the ways that we process information, whether it's in the

810
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: material world or in our own minds or in culture,

811
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: they're all they all sort of work in these layered systems. Yeah. Indeed, Now,

812
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: another writer who took the palm test as as a

813
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: metaphor is Elizabeth the Barrett Browning, who wrote about it

814
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: in her eighteen sixty four poem Aurora Lee. And uh,

815
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: you know this is actually more succinct and uh and

816
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: I think ultimately a little uh, a little more resonant

817
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 1: for the modern listener, modern reader, she says, Let who

818
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: says the souls a clean white paper, rather say a

819
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 1: palum test, a prophet's holograph defiled, erased and covered by

820
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: a monks the apocalypse by a longus pouring on which

821
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: obscene text we may discern perhaps some fair fine trace

822
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: of what was written once, some upstroke of an alpha

823
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: and omega expressing the old scripture. So again, she's getting

824
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: it the same thing that the clincy is getting at, really,

825
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: and that's that that you know, our our memory, our

826
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: our state of being is is essentially a a a

827
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: hyper palum test. Yeah, and so like one of the

828
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: things that this is making me think of, too, is

829
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: that that they're referring to it fairly casually in these

830
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 1: writings from you know, eighteen sixties. So, I know, I

831
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: know we talked about the etymology of the word palem, says,

832
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: but I'm wondering how far back it goes into sort

833
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: of vernacular, you know. Yeah, Well, I mean, as we

834
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: discussed um Alginalami was not the first to to discover these,

835
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: He just he was the first to really make it

836
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: his business to find a bunch of them. Uh So

837
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: the idea had been around for a while, like it

838
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: was these books that degraded, uh you know, to the

839
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: point and where people were noticing these lost texts. Yeah,

840
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: that's interesting. I mean to be honest, before we did

841
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: this episode, I've never even heard of them before. Yeah,

842
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: because each of us, you know, you can look at

843
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: who you are now, you can look at who you

844
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: worked ten years ago, and essentially that new version is

845
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: is written over the old. And sometimes you know, if

846
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: you're feeling if your your current self is feeling a

847
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: little bit tired, a little bit worn through, then maybe

848
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: some hints so that older you end up coming to

849
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: the surface. Yeah. I'm absolutely doing that right now. Um.

850
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: I just dug up a bunch of old journals that

851
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: I wrote from maybe fifteen years ago. Um, because I

852
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 1: was like, well, I wonder what I was thinking about

853
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 1: then that I might be able to apply to things

854
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,760
Speaker 1: I'm working on now. Physical journals journal, Yeah, they're physical.

855
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: So I've just been going through them with kind of

856
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: a red pen and then, like in my current journal,

857
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: there's a section that I'm transcribing some of these things

858
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 1: into and go, oh, yeah, that was an interesting idea

859
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: I thought of when I was nineteen. You know, at

860
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:26,439
Speaker 1: the time it seemed profound. Now I'm like, m okay, yeah,

861
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: I'll consider that, but it might have some relevance to

862
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,240
Speaker 1: what I'm working on now. But yeah, that that old

863
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: version of me talking to President day me. So there

864
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: you have it. Palm sessed, Palm sess is in a

865
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: historical exploration, Palm sess is a modern metaphor. Palm sessed

866
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: in the old world, Palm sess in the new Yeah. So,

867
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: if you have any information about these that you want

868
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: to share with us, I'd love to learn more about them. Uh,

869
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 1: you know, outside of these few examples that we gave here,

870
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: there wasn't a ton of research on these. I'm sure

871
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: there's probably very niche areas of academia that you know.

872
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: For for licensing reasons, we don't have access to the research.

873
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: But I'd love to learn more about this. So if

874
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: you know something about these that we neglected to mention today,

875
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 1: let us know. You can contact us on social media

876
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: where we're available on Facebook, Twitter and Tumbler and all

877
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: of those channels we are below the Mind that's right,

878
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: and also head on over to stuff to Blow your

879
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,439
Speaker 1: Mind dot com. That's the mother ship where you'll find

880
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: all the podcast episodes, blogs, videos, and The landing page

881
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 1: for this episode will include links out to related related

882
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: materials on stuff to about your mind dot com, as

883
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 1: well as some outside materials that we may have referenced here.

884
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: Uh oh, and when you do reach out to us,

885
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: I'd also love to know about any fictional palum tests,

886
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: because you know, we're you know, always reading, uh, you know,

887
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: tales and novels in which there's some sort of sacred

888
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: old text. We even mentioned the one in the currently

889
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: on TV and The Strain, But I do not recall

890
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: off hand encountering, say, an evil palam sest that's hidden with,

891
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: you know, beneath the text of another book. Yeah, I

892
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,720
Speaker 1: have to admit that that was one of the first

893
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: things that I thought of, was like this, all right,

894
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna store this away. This could be a potentially

895
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 1: great plot device where, yeah, you discover some ancient hidden

896
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: grimoire like we had talked about in that previously. Some

897
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: guys like necronomicon. I don't need a necronomicon, and I

898
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: gotta use these pages with something more practically exactly. They

899
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: cover it over with with three songs. Well yeah, if

900
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: you want to reach out to us directly and let

901
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: us know about any of those things that, you can

902
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 1: also email us at blow the Mind at how stuff

903
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: works dot com for more on this and thousands of

904
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com