1 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. 2 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Wisenthal and unfortunately this week my co host 3 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: Tracy Alloway is off, though she's not going to be 4 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: joining us, and I swear, or she swears that it's 5 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: not just because we're going to be talking about cryptocurrencies today. 6 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: She really couldn't make it. But in fact, we are 7 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: doing another crypto episode, and I'm really excited about our 8 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: guest today, a very important player in the industry. Of course, 9 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: over the last several months, along with everything else, everything 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: is going to the moon these days, stocks, gold, bonds, 11 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: you name it. Cryptocurrencies are no exception, and it feels 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: like there is certainly the most amount of enthusiasm that 13 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: we've seen in crypto pribace since the the boom in 14 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: UH And still the questions are remain and that there's 15 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: still plenty of skeptics. What's it for? Where is this 16 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: all going? Is this just another bubble that will burst 17 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: like last time? So we're gonna dig into some of 18 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: these questions today. Very excited to bring in our guest, 19 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: Katherine Coley. She is the CEO of Finance US, a 20 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: cryptocurrency exchange in the u S a wholly owned subsidiary 21 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: subsidiary of Finance, which is one of the biggest cryptocurrency 22 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: exchanges in the world. Katherine, thank you very much for 23 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: joining us. Thank you so much. Joe really excited to 24 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: be on. So I do remember last time, during last 25 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: the last boom, we did see the emergence of Finance, 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: which is the company that owns you. Just what is 27 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: the structure and relationship of Finance and Finance US. I 28 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: hate to come out of the gates correcting you on 29 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: a couple of things, but I'm going to Okay, that's fine, 30 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: that's fine. So Binance dot com it's a global ecosystem 31 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: that really has been around for about last three years, 32 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: really expanding the access around the world for people to 33 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: engage with digital assets. And around last year in the summertime, 34 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: I joined to become the CEO of Finance US, which 35 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: is actually an independent entity entirely run out of the 36 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: United States, with the ability to license the technology that 37 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,239 Speaker 1: Finance dot Com has, So you think about matching engine, 38 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: the tech st act that's really there. We're able to 39 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: really bring that into the US as well as customize 40 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: it entirely for an American audience. So when you think 41 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: about a cryptoo crypto global platform, so many things are 42 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: so different in the United States on ramps, a c H, 43 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: debit cards, wires, all the dollar components, so everything has 44 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: to be custom fit and made specifically to the US. 45 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: So that's really where Finance US comes in. The other 46 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: components are the US regulation, so uh in terms of 47 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: violence US, we're registered with fins in we have are 48 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: are regulated by the state level, with the money transmitter 49 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: licenses fully operating in thirty eight states, with the newest 50 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: state being Florida, and so everything we're doing is in 51 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: line with the U S regulation as well as catered 52 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: to an American user. Got it? Okay, with that out 53 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: of the way, and I appreciate you clarifying it, and 54 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: I want people to understand what the exact structure is. 55 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 1: Let me start with what I see as sort of 56 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: one of the issues or problems with the crypto currency 57 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: industry at large as a market and carried out I 58 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: want to hear. I'm sure you'll disagree with me, but 59 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: this is this is something that I think about a lot. 60 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: So late seventeen or you know, people started getting like 61 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: super into bitcoin. Also ethereum, and maybe a couple of others, 62 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: and then by like no member and December of that year, 63 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: suddenly the market was just flooded with supply, and suddenly 64 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: it's like and now here buy some bitcoin cash. And 65 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:14,119 Speaker 1: then here by like eight more hard forks of bitcoin cash. Oh, 66 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: and there's like fifty other I c o s, And 67 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 1: so basically you have this thing which kind of started 68 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: off essentially as bitcoin and bitcoin alone. And one of 69 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: the big selling points was the fact that it's unique 70 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: that there's a fixed supply of it. But then the industry, 71 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: strikes me, is manufacturing so many new assets to capture 72 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: the demand for crypto, and so suddenly exchange has become, 73 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: in my mind, flooded with new coins, new project very fast. 74 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: The incentive for new players is not to jump on 75 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: a project that, say, has already gone up ten percent, 76 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: but to start a new project that could itself go 77 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: up ten thousand percent. And so then eventually it all 78 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: sort of comes crumbling down because the investor the empire 79 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: is just sort of choked with so much supply, and so, hey, 80 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: I'm curious if you think that phenomenon is real. It 81 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: seems like that way to me. And are we seeing 82 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: it again this time with the sort of numerous, the 83 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: hundreds of new coins that seemed to be emerging onto 84 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: the ecosystem every day, you hit the nail on the head. 85 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: So when Satoshi Knakamoto came out with IS or her 86 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: imagination for a peer to peer network with this scarce asset, 87 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: you realized that this would be absolutely possible assuming no 88 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: other coin was manufactured, no other supply came in to 89 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: dilute it, and this was the only way that would 90 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: be But you forget that humans have a competitive need, 91 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: and so we really can't take people away from building 92 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: something that can be better, faster, stronger, or better marketed 93 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: or cater to a different audience. And so you're going 94 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: to always see people try to riff on it or 95 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: fork as the you know, the industry says along when 96 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: you're using the same elements of the blockchain and just 97 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: rebranding it. Uh. And so with that, I agree with 98 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: you that it does seem like, oh no, I can't 99 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: I can't really see which one I'm going to be 100 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: involved in. But that's really the element that we face 101 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: into all things in life. You know, it wasn't that 102 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: Coca cola was the only carbonated beverage that was out there. 103 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,559 Speaker 1: You're always going to see something come up new, something 104 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: that was going to either be capturing a new market 105 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: audience or something that was going to be delivering a 106 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: different need. So that that's really where I see the 107 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: human need for competition continuing and we have to accept that. Um. 108 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: The best part about that is you get innovation of 109 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: so where there's things like the birth of Ethereum, which 110 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: then has let us see items as humorous as crypto 111 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: kitties and then as impactful as stable coins, you're also 112 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: seeing it change the way we're we're seeking yield now. 113 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: So you've got different components that are letting people really 114 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: evaluate how this industry can change the game. And I'm 115 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: all for it. Okay, So your comparison to Coca Cola 116 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: and then you know, Pepsi emerged and there's other sodas 117 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: that kind of makes sense to me. It's like, right, 118 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: that's capitalism, that's human nature. We're going to compete, ingenuity, innovate, 119 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: so forth. Coca Cola is still around, but people have 120 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: other options. They're being said, it's one thing to have 121 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: a new competitor to Coca Cola, on the market. It's 122 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: another thing for the listed exchanges to capitalize on the 123 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: hype for Cola and suddenly list every new Cola project 124 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: as something that trades. So, okay, you have Coke shares, 125 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: But what if you know, over the next few months 126 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: there was a boom and coke suddenly all kinds of 127 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: new cola startups existed primarily to um well quench investor 128 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: thirst for soda related assets, so to related financial assets. 129 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: Doesn't this end up just sort of diluting and swamping 130 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: the sort of supply demand supply demand effects that was 131 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: pushing the original asset asset up of the first place 132 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: Insider it more of a marketplace. I'm going to have 133 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: Coca Cola, I'm going to have Mountain Dew, I'm going 134 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: to have a sprite, I'm going to have a variety 135 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: of options because i know that my user base is 136 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: going to be demanding it. So I'm going to make 137 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: sure that what I'm serving isn't poison. I'm going to 138 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: make sure that what I'm providing is in demand of 139 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: the market, and I'm going to be possibly pushing the 140 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: market into seeing if something you know is worthwhile keeping 141 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: on our menu. So so that's really how we view 142 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: offering digital assets. There's going to be the majors, the 143 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: ones that we see as having the largest adoption so far, 144 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: the ones that have either been there the longest when 145 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: you think about it, or we're going to be providing 146 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: things where the current market environment is both approval of 147 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: a from a regulatory standpoint as well as the market 148 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: is demanding it, asking for it to be included in 149 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: certain things because there's actual growth or team and and 150 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: a mission behind it that's going to be catered to 151 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: a US growth that concept um or the idea that 152 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: we're going to be needing this from a utility perspective. 153 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: So we've launched a series of coins forty six of 154 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: them in total today, and we break them through with 155 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: with different you can kind of put them in categories too, um, 156 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: you've got your diet sodas, you've got your caffeine free, 157 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: you've got your fruity fruity drinks, uh, And you can 158 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: kind of break them through in that where you see 159 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 1: governance tokens being something as a need for people to 160 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: understand and want to be involved in. You see staking 161 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: as something where people want to be involved in these 162 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: proof of steaks where if you park your deposits you're 163 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: able to earn um you know, rewards on top of that. 164 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: So those are kind of the subcategories to which digital 165 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: assets provide people different ways to interact with the markets. 166 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: You don't have to be high frequency trader in order 167 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: to capitalize on digital assets. You could possibly be very 168 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: involved in staking having large deposits there. You could be 169 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: involved in the governance of these defy or decentralized finance 170 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: UH protocols and and so forth. So that that's really 171 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: how we break it down and offer people that variety, 172 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: because being a gatekeeper in this industry is way too soon. 173 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: This gets to UH something that you know, you need 174 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: to help educate me on. And during that boom, you know, 175 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: I thought I was pretty reasonably informed on various goings 176 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: on in the crypto industry, and I'd like to think 177 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: that I would have been reasonably informed, except I don't 178 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: know if you've noticed, but a bunch of other things 179 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: that have happened in and so I have to admit 180 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: that I haven't paid as close attention to all the 181 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: development as I did back then because I've kind of 182 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,719 Speaker 1: been distracted with some of this other stuff that's been 183 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: happening this year. So to a sort of nubie in 184 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: the space or someone who like isn't paying attention, how 185 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: would you describe this world? I mean, all this stuff 186 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: staking and stable coins and yield farming and governmentce tokens 187 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: like I actually have, I don't really understand it. So 188 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: you were to like describe to someone what the big 189 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 1: new things are in that were sort of characterized the 190 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: ecosystem versus what's your sort of like I don't know, 191 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: elevator pitch for it all because I see these charts 192 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: of like a million coins interacting with each other, and 193 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: I just have to admit I don't really get it. 194 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: If you could have predicted, I would have given you 195 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: all my money in So, Uh, there's certainly some components 196 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 1: that none of us saw happening. Um, but of those 197 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: I break it down into two. Really the benefits of 198 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: the freedom of digital assets. And that sounds like a 199 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: big jarble of words, so I'll break it down. I 200 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 1: am currently trapped in my living room, uh, with a 201 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: limited amount of exposure externally, unable to get most of 202 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: my news or media except for online or Bloomberg TV. 203 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: And the components to which I can interact with other persons, 204 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: my team, a company of business all have to be digital. 205 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 1: So when you look at a space that allows you 206 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: to interact, access funds, invest trade from a mobile device, 207 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: you think about how that benefits us for whatever may come. 208 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: Unless we're all underwater and the internet is bad there. 209 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: But the the components that we've currently faced in this 210 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: pandemic have all been suited for a resilient industry to 211 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: take off. And that's really where digital assets has thrived 212 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: is the idea that you anyone with an Internet connection 213 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: can access their funds in digital sets. And the digital 214 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: assets can either be placed in highly volatile assets staple 215 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: assets pegged to the dollar, or ones that reward you 216 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: for keeping it parked there and not trading it, or 217 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: ones that help you, uh, you know, build on top 218 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: of it and create different things, be it tokens or 219 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: chips that are rewarded, or things that unlocked doors like 220 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: a chucky cheese or a gaming token. Let's say, I'm 221 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: actually really curious on the tokens that pay you for 222 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: not doing anything, and so people collect yield and this 223 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: is something I don't still don't quite understand, but you 224 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: can buy a token, stake it somewhere, which basically means 225 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: kind of like it seems to me, like putting it 226 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: in a c D kind of where you commit to 227 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: locking it up for a certain out of time and 228 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: then you get some yield, some above market yield. How 229 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 1: does that whole world work? And who is paying me 230 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: that yield? So I get some sort of income from it, 231 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: But who's the one, uh, you know, spending that money 232 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: that's becoming my income. There's a common word from every 233 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: part of finance that you know before this that is 234 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: not changing, and that's liquidity. So the need for a 235 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: market to have enough supply to be able to meet 236 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: the demands without fluctuating the price of the asset is 237 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: still something that is a component in any marketplace. Um, 238 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: I only have one soda and I have thirty people 239 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: that need it, that's going to be a very expensive soda. 240 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: If I have an infinite supply of this soda, or 241 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: if people want to give me their sodas so that 242 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: I can sell them for other people, I can lower 243 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: that price. I can have a better market, I can 244 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: have more users. So we think about it in ways 245 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: where yield farming, which is this you know foreign word 246 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: that comes up with the same thing as you know, 247 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: seeking yield, which is what you do in f X 248 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: when you're deciding to go into the AUSI dollar. But 249 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: the components of being able to provide your supply of 250 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: a token to a provider so that they can make 251 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: markets with it allows you to then be rewarded for 252 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: sacrificing the chance to BILO so high during those times. 253 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: So because you're actively taking a stance that says I'm 254 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: not going to touch it, I'm not going to you know, 255 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: seek to trade this thing actively, I am sacrificing some 256 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: element of the market that is out there currently so 257 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: that this whole entire marketplace can have more supply to 258 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: be able to make healthier markets. That's where you're getting 259 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: this reward or this this staking reward or the yield 260 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: guilt in return. So the yield payer in this case, 261 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: I don't even know that's called. I'm not sure if 262 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: I'm using the right term. But whoever is paying me 263 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: that a market maker who is then using that coin 264 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: to engage in a facilitate a more a liquid trading environment, 265 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: basically in in a in our old world, in our 266 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: centralized world, that is a market maker in this new world, 267 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: it is anyone. So that is that that is the 268 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: component that gets people, especially you know as a former banker, 269 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: gets them going confused, like what about what about my counterparty? 270 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: How do I know who they are? How how am 271 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: I familiar with this? And that's the feature, not the bug, 272 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: that you're going to be able to give up your 273 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: assets into um an unknown pool that someone, anyone can 274 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: be able to use to then make markets on. And 275 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: so that is a huge benefit to people that are 276 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: not classified as the Susquehannas Steve r twos of the 277 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: world UM that would naturally have that as a business. 278 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: And you're able to see you first time traders able 279 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: to pick up and learn about this as well as 280 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: provide automated market making strategies and build this out and 281 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: therefore take advantage of a bad advantage but be able 282 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 1: to capitalize on visibility to provide markets safely. So that's 283 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: like the unusual component. But you can break it down 284 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: into I'm giving up my asset into a to a 285 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: market maker, and the market maker is paying me for 286 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: that service, and then you have to flip it and say, 287 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: in decentralized finance, I'm giving that up to an unknown entity, 288 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: and that unknown entity is then doing what they want 289 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: with it um, which is a benefit if you are 290 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: democratizing the access to this capital. Right, two questions. The 291 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: first one is a very short one. So again I'm 292 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: assuming that for a lot of listeners this is like 293 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: pretty new stuff. Yield forming, locking up your coin is 294 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: actually collecting an interest rate on a cryptocurrency. First question 295 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: is how big is this market or like how you know, 296 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: how how big is this growth? This has grown astronomically 297 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: in the last few weeks, with the astronomic being still 298 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: under you under ten billion dollars we're talking about the 299 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: stable coin industry inside of digital assets is ten billion dollars. 300 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: But this component of yield farming and decentralized finance is 301 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: now eclipsing these centralized exchanges. So for the first time 302 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: ever you saw unit swaps volume, daily volume exceed coin basis. 303 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: You know, as a as a company that's also working 304 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: on eclipsing other people's market share. Um, there is an 305 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: ability to do this, but it's also just the differentiation 306 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: of your of your feature or of your platform. So 307 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: the the excellence of these decentralized platforms is that they 308 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: are allowing a global participation level, not just a regional 309 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: So I said, I had two questions, but I'm going 310 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: to ask a question in between again for the purpose 311 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: health listeners. You know, the hot exchange was coin based. 312 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: That's more or less a regulated bank in the sense 313 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: that you can wire your money to them, put it 314 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: on deposit, and then they hold something for you that 315 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: they call a bitcoin or some other coin that's really 316 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: just their liability, and when you want to take it off, 317 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: they'll send it to you. But it's like people in regulation. 318 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,239 Speaker 1: Something like nice swap is just a protocol. There's no 319 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: actual fiat money held, and it's a sort of purely 320 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: digital algorithmic exchange on chain that essentially has there's no 321 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: custodial aspect to it at all. Is that more or 322 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: less right? Very accurate? I except for the fact that 323 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: I'm sure coin base in myself would both say we 324 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: are bank life, but definitely not. We did none of 325 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: our banking licenses to be a chartered bank, so just 326 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: to be just for every everyone out there listening, we 327 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: have our money transmission licenses, but I'm not the bank 328 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: chart an important distinction. Okay, So then this gets to 329 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: me to my other question, which is one of the 330 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: common complaints of um crypto towards crypto from skeptics. So like, yeah, okay, 331 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting. Maybe the technology is interesting, but 332 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: all it's used for basically is speculation and games and trading. 333 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: And when you we sort of look at the last 334 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: three years and the you know, I guess innovation that's 335 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: taken place. There are a lot of new things that 336 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: have been built, but it seems like still the only 337 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: thing in the end is more speculation in trading. There's 338 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: just sort of like a new layer. It's it's a 339 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: more sophisticated market. Maybe it's more liquid, maybe there are 340 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: more participants in more different different ways of profit. But 341 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 1: in the end, what's being built is yet another layer 342 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: for a speculative game. Having been someone that's dedicated her 343 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: entire career too speculative assets, and my first five years 344 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: were with Morgan Stanley and Foreign Exchange, not that much 345 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: as different. So uh, to clarify, the past three years 346 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: have been dedicated to crypto. I have stayed busy, I've 347 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: stayed employed, and I've constantly been learning. So for an 348 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: industry to be able to provide that much opportunity as 349 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: well as give me the chance to hire and bring 350 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: in new voices and names and give them careers in 351 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: something that is an added benefit any industry would hope 352 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: to have. So the the benefits of anything blossoming, whether 353 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: it is for a speculative purpose or not, is that 354 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: this is able to build a sustainable ecosystem for enthusiasts 355 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: as well as experts as well. As the on ramps 356 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: into crypto are so much wider than the on ramps 357 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: into finance, into technology, and with that it's it's a 358 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: global benefit of people's curiosity. So I see it as 359 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: despite the skepticism, I've been able to stay off the 360 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: streets because of crypto um and there's so much benefit 361 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: in that that people underestimate. And for the ability to have, uh, 362 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: you know, a woman's CEO of of an American exchange. 363 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: We only just got our first woman in banking as 364 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: the CEO. So the changes we can make inside of 365 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: the digital asset industry, whether it is seen as skeptical 366 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: or you know, concerning for folks, is merely a birth 367 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: of a new industry that is giving more people an 368 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 1: opportunity to seek it out. I'm actually like how did 369 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: you go crypto? Because you know, over the years there're 370 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: been stories is like longtime banker makes the leap, but 371 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: they jump into some new thing. They launched their own 372 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: new thing, or like one of the exchanges will pluck 373 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: a well known exact from the legacy finance world. What's 374 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: your story, like, how did you decide um to make 375 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: the dive to leave Morgan Stanley than you went to 376 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: Ripple than to finance us? But what was that like 377 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: making that decision to sort of leave the warm embrace 378 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: of traditional finance into this new world. Well, I definitely 379 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't call it a warm embrace, but the I've always 380 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: wanted to be in front of the biggest wave out there, 381 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: and so right after college, I threw myself into Hong 382 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: Kong FCS trading and saw a world that was wild 383 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,719 Speaker 1: and it was you know, while while we were comparing 384 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: ourselves with our New York and London colleagues, we were 385 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: the wild West. We were you know, Asian and the 386 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,719 Speaker 1: f's we were um these wild options on China. Uh, 387 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: the the components inside of the Asian market landscape. We're 388 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: still wild, We're still untamed and had so many idiosyncratic 389 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: features to them. It kept you captivated. And so when 390 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: I moved to London with Morgan Stanley and was you 391 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: know then just doing huge size of euro and sterling 392 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: and nothing, nothing, nothing too exotic, you saw that kind 393 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: of Uh, this is this is, this is where my 394 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: future is headed. And so I leaned into the electronic 395 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: trading side. UM being able to provide this for our 396 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: users to have that autonomy, to be able to trade 397 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: without me, which helped for a human errors, be prioritization 398 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: of my own personal time and see better execution from 399 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: a trading standpoint. They were able to use algos, they 400 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: were able to have trade cost analysis. Um, it was 401 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: much more of a transparent market. Uh. The other component 402 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: while I was in Digital Asso or while I was 403 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: in Wall Street was this this item on Bloomberg that 404 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: was that was popping up with DTCC, and it was 405 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: the ability for you to see the trades when a 406 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: client of yours traded away, which was in my opinion, 407 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: revolutionary because I could immediately call out my client for 408 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: having a premium and an option that was bullshit. So UM, 409 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: I could I could look at that list and say, 410 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 1: why why in the world did they trade away on this, 411 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, we had we had a tighter price, we 412 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: had a bet, we had a better deal there. Let 413 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: me let me engage with that. And when I realized 414 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: that's exactly what blockchain was providing. The realized now that 415 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: that was two years after I left Wall Street, was 416 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: when I really recognized what crypto could could hold. But 417 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: that was the connection point I saw is that transactions 418 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: that were able to be as transparent as as Bitcoin transactions, 419 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: where they were able to be found on a block explorer, 420 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: which just is the essentially DTCC on Bloomberg, but provided 421 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: to anyone with an Internet connection, you're able to track 422 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: and trans and identify each transaction that takes place. And 423 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: in my opinion, that's a frightening for certain things that 424 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: don't want to be visible to the to the naked eye. 425 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: But the counter to it is that you would be 426 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: able to have a significantly higher amount of efficiency in 427 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: a market if that was the component. So if we're 428 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: moving from Hong Kong, where I was feeling like the 429 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: inefficiencies were so great that the margins were appropriate there, 430 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: I witnessed them get decimated. I was trading Indonesia back 431 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: at the time, and and you you could drive a 432 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: bus through the spread that they were providing you on shore. 433 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 1: And now I think it's you know tips, which you're 434 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: just like what that you know that there's there's no 435 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: there's no space there anymore because the market has moved 436 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: so so quickly efficiently, and so when you're seeking out 437 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: where are the most inefficient markets that we can improve 438 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: upon or acknowledge while they're still rich, that to me 439 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: was what digital assets didn't have because it was birthed 440 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: out of a computer science regime. It was missing the 441 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: components of a natural trader mindset that came in an 442 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: understanding trader psychology, supply and demand, arbitrage, all the components 443 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: that a professional that is working to make a market's 444 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: more efficient enjoys. So so that to me is really 445 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: where I saw the lights go off that said, I mean, 446 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: well at first, I mean, I'll admit it, and plenty 447 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: of people listening probably may go, yeah, me too. When 448 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: I when I heard about bitcoin, it was from a 449 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: client that had bought some as a joke, I think 450 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: for his fantasy football league. He lost that season and 451 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: had to buy bitcoin. Um. He ended up selling I 452 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: think it a five and bought his mom a house, 453 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: So I was like, well that's something. Um. But the 454 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: he felt good, he probably felt good about himself for 455 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: like six months and then he and then he hated 456 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: himself for the rest of his laf Oh, well, his 457 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 1: mom has a house, so I hope himself. But the 458 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: the components of of bitcoin when I heard about them, 459 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: sounded terrible. It's super slow to move, it's clunky, it's expensive, 460 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: and you got to do work in order to earn 461 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: it out of thin air. Um. And and to me, 462 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, well this isn't gonna be f 463 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: X because we're getting close to T plus two is 464 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: our normal settlement. Um. We have nearly efficient markets in 465 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: terms of our pricing and or just banks competition is 466 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: forcing us to have no margins, so we're pricing everyone 467 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: at market and taking glosses because that's the only way 468 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: to retain customers at that time. But the the components 469 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: of bitcoin were not competitive in my opinion, for replacing 470 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: a currency that would be moved around the world like payments, 471 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: which payments are only one portion of it. You think 472 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: about the FX markets, they have the corporate flow, the 473 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: speculative flow, as well as just the natural course of 474 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 1: this business or travel, and then as well the economic 475 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: factors of countries creating their reserves in it. And I 476 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: was going out, well, there's no way a country would 477 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 1: build for their reserves and something like this unless it 478 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: was going to be improved upon. And so that's really 479 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: where when when you say, like, why would you have 480 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,719 Speaker 1: more than Coca cola? In my opinion, I was like, 481 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: this could be improved upon. There could be a better 482 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: soda flavor out there, which made me look into the 483 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: different digital assets at the time. And so this was 484 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:56,239 Speaker 1: about when I was leaving banking, going into the new 485 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: unknown for me. Um. I moved to San Francisco saying, Okay, 486 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: I know the world of hedge funds, I know the 487 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: world of global macro. I love it, but it's feels 488 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: one dimensional at sometimes. How does my generation and tech 489 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: get involved in that component? And so I came over 490 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: to San Francisco to try everything. And I remember all 491 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: of my interviews with these great fin techs. I kept 492 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: on asking them about their balance sheet and their f 493 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: X risk, and I knew that I had a sickness, 494 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: but I was just so so focused on the the 495 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: inefficiencies that these companies were having partially because they were 496 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: VC funded, but there there's so many components that they 497 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: were leaving chips on the table because they weren't aware 498 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: of how these markets were moving. And so I I 499 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: learned a little bit about x RP and said, well, 500 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: this is faster, this is cheaper, this is UM you know, 501 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: seems to be more scalable, but definitely has the features 502 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: that are also appealing to bitcoin. Not they're not present, 503 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: so that self sovereignty that UM, you know, the entire 504 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: supply being limited UM. Some of those components with x 505 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: RP were a little bit different because there were there 506 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: people working on it UM and so I I joined 507 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: Ripple and that was kind of my first foray two 508 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: feet in UM, just having been an observer. I was 509 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: at Silicon Valley Bank for a hop that UM observing 510 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: how these startups were, as I said, leaving so many 511 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: chips on the table because they weren't hedging their f 512 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: X risks with their you know, their Indian arms or 513 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: their their Chinese arms, with their businesses. Sure enough, you 514 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: know it's three people in a garage. They're not going 515 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: to be whipping out FX options to protect their to 516 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: protect their hedging their operational costs. So UM, fair on them, 517 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: they're growing, They're probably all I p o by now. 518 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: But the components to me where I just had to 519 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: learn more about it, and the the way that I 520 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: learned as an obvious statement to moving to Hong Kong. 521 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: To understand effects, I have to go in with all 522 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: two feet. So I completely submerge myself into an industry 523 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: in order to learn about it, in order to be 524 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: a liaison translator to my peers, to people that are 525 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: too intimidated to understand a space as obscure and frankly 526 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: intimidating as crypto. So where where I can be the 527 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: the liaison or the translator for an industry, I'm all there. 528 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: And so I did my I did my tour of 529 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: duty with uh, you know, foreign exchange, understanding how those 530 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: markets worked. Um, it's nearly page for page of Liars Poker. 531 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: But there's a new book to be written and that's 532 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: in crypto, and I want to make sure that that 533 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: industry we can educate people on rather than intimidate. I 534 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: love that. I love your story because I mean, I'm 535 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: aware you obviously, every there's always headlines about people leaving 536 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: legacy finance for crypto, but I don't think I've ever 537 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: really heard anyone sort of spell out the whole thought 538 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: process like that. So that was really cool and also 539 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: sort of gives me another question, and it gets back 540 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: to the sort of what for questions? What is crypto four? 541 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: And it's interesting, you know, your comparison of Okay, by 542 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: the end of your effects stint, you saw the incredible 543 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: spread and narrowing i'd say Indian or Indonesian rupia trading, 544 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: and you realize they're like massive inefficiencies with are still 545 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: you know, huge spreads and massive inefficiencies left out there 546 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: with digital assets and crypto assets. But it still gets 547 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: to the question, okay, okay, maybe the trading can be improved, 548 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: become more decentralized, can become faster, spreads can be narrowed, 549 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: but it still raises to me the question, like, okay, 550 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: what for. So let's say the market does get much 551 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: more efficient and liquid and so forth, then what do 552 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: we do with those markets? What's done with that liquidity? 553 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: To actually sort of I guess bridge the gap between 554 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: finance and the real world, because when I think about finance, yes, 555 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of gambling and speculation. But 556 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: at the end of where there's somewhere on a chain 557 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: someone gets the liquidity to buy a house, or someone 558 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: gets the liquidity to make an M and A transaction. Somewhere, 559 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: you know, there's sort of a real world coral area 560 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: at the end that all this liquidity or liquidity transformation 561 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: is serving some real world action and I don't yet 562 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: really see that um in the crypto space. So you 563 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: mentioned those great kernels, and those are kind of the 564 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: shining lights of why capital markets exist UM to to 565 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: get that, you know, to get the mortgage to um 566 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: close the M and A deal, to be able to 567 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: repatriate the revenues of a foreign on you know, foreign 568 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: product overseas, and there's still so many limitations on when 569 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: and who can get those and that's really where digital 570 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 1: assets comes in. So closing that M and A deal 571 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: on a Friday night at four pm is no longer 572 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: the deadline. You can close it on Saturday morning at 573 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: two am, you can close it on Sunday at five pm. 574 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: Digital assets are going to be trading, operating, transacting, and 575 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: being able to be accessed. So what does that free 576 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: up in terms of the ability for us to provide funds, 577 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: remit payments, close books, be able to send transactions to 578 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,320 Speaker 1: close deals by homes, by buildings, uh, you name it. 579 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: It's going to be freeing in that aspect that this 580 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: can be done now without the time constraints that the 581 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: current banking system, as the other components are the access 582 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: So when I think about my time in Wall Street, 583 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: my current status as a analyst and associate still limited 584 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 1: me from being an accredited investor. Yet I was reading 585 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg every day, talking to the world's largest hedge fund managers, 586 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: and fully aware of financial products, so that the current 587 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 1: the current sec adjustments have benefit of that. But only 588 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: if I still was at a bank, working, taking my 589 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: taking my licensing exams. Um. So there's still so many 590 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: components where people are prevented from taking steps in their 591 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: own financial futures. The digital assets alleviates and to me, 592 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: that is a huge component and a shift that makes 593 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: it less of this hard to attain. You know, you 594 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,839 Speaker 1: can only get a mortgage if you can only your 595 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: credit score has to be this. If we were we 596 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: are going to be able to free up capital and 597 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: let people take control of their own capital in ways 598 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: that may give them a better life. And that is 599 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: the ability to work in a a nine to five job 600 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: and still go home and invest, the ability to um 601 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: work night shifts and yet be able to send money 602 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: to your parents anywhere around the world at any time 603 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: that you need to. Is that the revolution? Because I 604 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: mean it does. It is annoying that when say I 605 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: need to wire my rent check to a landlord that 606 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: you know I can't do it on certain days or 607 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: you know, it would be very annoying to have to 608 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: wait till Monday to close an m and a deal fixing. 609 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,439 Speaker 1: That doesn't exactly sound revolutionary to me. It sounds like, yeah, 610 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: that should just be something that they fixed and finance. 611 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: Is it that sort of in universal access part that 612 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: in your view is sort of the potential revolution with crypto? 613 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,839 Speaker 1: In my opinion, it's a huge component. I was an 614 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: early adopter of globalization UM, which was a huge burden 615 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: looking back. Um, you know, my I have I have 616 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 1: to four o one case around the world that I 617 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: can only act as when I'm sixty five, um, and 618 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: they're not even four one key is there? You know, 619 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: a UK pension and Hong Kong pension. So when you 620 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: think about you know, giving people this opportunity to grow 621 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 1: their own, you know, their own lives. We're telling people, 622 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: by the ways that our infrastructure is built and by 623 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: the way that banking is built, stay home, don't talk 624 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: to anybody, get your local bank and growth. We're we're 625 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: discouraging people from taking risks to go outside of their 626 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: own boundaries to be able to build businesses overseas, to 627 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: be able to build businesses in the United States that 628 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: reach overseas audiences, or or take components and funding from 629 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: um others, And that to me is still so stifling 630 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: that I'm not sure the world is that courageous to 631 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,319 Speaker 1: be able to continue to push that forward. Yet there 632 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: are an insane amount of benefits from looking outside of 633 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: your own neighborhood, and so that that that universal access 634 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,720 Speaker 1: is a huge component. The ability to reduce the fees 635 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: that you you get at every turn of an international 636 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: transaction and give that back to the user are some 637 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,919 Speaker 1: of the huge ways to unlock this and allow people 638 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,760 Speaker 1: to actually get a lot from it. You think about 639 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: if you're running a foreign company, you basically have to 640 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 1: have a huge balance sheet in order to accommodate the 641 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: f x P and L loss that you're going to 642 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: be having You think about every earnings call where there's 643 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: a drop down that from these largest companies in the world, 644 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: and there's always like, yeah, we we acknowledge our f 645 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 1: X pan L wasn't that good this year. So there 646 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 1: there are huge losses taken that only benefit those that 647 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 1: come with the cash already to be able to afford 648 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: to take on this tyle of business that can be 649 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: drastically reduced by having something that is universally accepted at 650 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 1: any corner um. The other component of that is truly 651 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: the access to it. If it is internet based. We 652 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: are moving to a world and the world is actually 653 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: caught up faster than America in terms of mobile banking, 654 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: and so if we're moving to a world where phones 655 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: are the new wallet, and that component allows people to 656 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,720 Speaker 1: really transact in ways that are significantly better for business, 657 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: you're not going to have the same style of burden 658 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: that people face when even small mom and pop shops 659 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: don't want to be running an amex. Before we wrap up, 660 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that strikes me as 661 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 1: the space is that there's sort of this spectrum of 662 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,399 Speaker 1: projects out there and I think, you know, I'm sure 663 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: it's always in the sense going to be like that. 664 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 1: Due to the zero barriers to entry, really anyone can 665 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 1: launch a new coin in theory and may be traded 666 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: on one of these decentralized exchanges UM, as long as 667 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:45,280 Speaker 1: they meet some technical requirements. There are obviously some projects 668 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: that are pretty interesting and take it pretty seriously. Then 669 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 1: there are projects that I think probably everyone would agree 670 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: are blatant egregious scams. And then there's probably projects that 671 00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,760 Speaker 1: are in the middle which are not really scams per se, 672 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,359 Speaker 1: but they're also like are they a joke? You get 673 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: these like weird ones. You mentioned crypto kitties earlier. I 674 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: don't think that was a scam, but like it was 675 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: difficult to tell how seriously to take the whole thing. 676 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 1: This year's like all these new random coins and things 677 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: with names like Sushi and yam, and it's like, I 678 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: can't tell if it's performance art when people talk about 679 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: this is like a serious new experiment and monetary governance, 680 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,760 Speaker 1: or is it just to get someone's get rich quick scame? 681 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,919 Speaker 1: Like I can't tell, And so I'm curious how much 682 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 1: of a challenge that is for the space for education, 683 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: for regulators, for UM legacy investors, that would like to 684 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: have an allocation to crypto. The difficulty in discerning what 685 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: is UM a sort of serious legit project that people 686 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: are going to nurture and build on for a while, 687 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: versus either a joke or a scam that was like 688 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 1: pumped in some telegram room that we're not part of. Right, 689 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: you mentioned a couple of things of like not being 690 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 1: able to tell if a trend is worthwhile or not, 691 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,880 Speaker 1: and I still am worried about Capri pants in that 692 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:12,360 Speaker 1: way too. UM. But the crypto industry continues to fight 693 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: against bad apples, and because of the inclusivity of the space, 694 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,439 Speaker 1: the ability for anyone to be involved, you are going 695 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: to face that need to educate the customers and the 696 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: community about more components than you do in the traditional world. 697 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: Because the barriers to entry are just so high, people 698 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: don't even get involved. So around internet security, around how 699 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: to protect yourselves and your privacy, those are those are 700 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: kind of items that we have to remain vigilant about 701 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,320 Speaker 1: from educating people that are first stepping into these waters. 702 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 1: That's kind of the one oh one of entering crypto. 703 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 1: You need to be aware of how your privacy and 704 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,440 Speaker 1: your data and your crypto is being protected, and that 705 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: is being protected by yourself. So we we take those 706 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: components to to educate people there. The next components to 707 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 1: really educate people on are really just showing how traceable 708 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: and transparent these are, so that you can do your 709 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,280 Speaker 1: research and be able to see all of the components 710 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: that you need in order to make a decision. And 711 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,400 Speaker 1: that is one of the unique things about digital assets 712 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: is that the college courses, and the financial degrees and 713 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: the pH d s are all available online to anyone. 714 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: The components of education in this space are wildly available 715 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: and made available, and as our purpose of our platform, 716 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,360 Speaker 1: we continue to produce content that helps people get educated 717 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 1: specifically on this to make better decisions. The third component 718 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,840 Speaker 1: is understanding the risks, and this is something that I 719 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: think everyone needs to understand and also needs to be 720 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: aware of that you can take risks. You don't always 721 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 1: have to just be afraid of them. So understanding that 722 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: is your balance that you're going to be taking. There 723 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 1: is the trade off between am I engaging in something 724 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,279 Speaker 1: that is highly volatile? Does this help and benefit the 725 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,360 Speaker 1: long term benefits that I hope to seek, or is 726 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: this something that I'm a believer in the technology as 727 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: a changing component as the world needs something that needs 728 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: to be more inclusive, more digitally accessible, and more transparent, 729 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 1: and I'm here for the long haul. So we see 730 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,880 Speaker 1: we see regulation coming in in ways that are helping 731 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: curb the near term volatility, which confuses the long term 732 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: benefits in these short term gains, and this kind of 733 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: hype hyper cycles um definitely depreciates the long term value 734 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:42,759 Speaker 1: of building an ecosystem that is increasingly inclusive, providing financial 735 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: freedom and access to everyone with the shadow of UH 736 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 1: scammers and those kind of components. So what we can 737 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,840 Speaker 1: do in our mission to build out mainstream cryptocurrencies is 738 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: building that education component as as a as a required 739 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,959 Speaker 1: layer to feel comfortable about this space and make sure 740 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: that as you're accessing these digital assets, you're fully aware 741 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 1: of one the privacy and the protection needed on your 742 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: on your information, as well as the risks inherent in 743 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 1: investing and trading into an asset class as volatil is 744 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: this one. And then understanding the fundamentals or the economics 745 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: in supply and demand, which I think is one of 746 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,560 Speaker 1: the fascinating things that we've seen accelerated by digital assets. 747 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: Unlike finance before is that this is an entire industry 748 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 1: that is reaching a significantly different audience than finance, and 749 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: yet every single day the conversation topic is money. Money 750 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,720 Speaker 1: has been a taboo table conversation for so long. Finally 751 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,240 Speaker 1: we've had an industry that makes it digestible for people, 752 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,400 Speaker 1: interesting for folks, and they're they're beginning to learn the components. 753 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 1: There have been more people in the last two months 754 00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 1: that now understand what a basis trade is, not be 755 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,799 Speaker 1: because they've been following the interest rate markets. They've been 756 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: following crypto. Oh, I thought it was because like they 757 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,080 Speaker 1: were listening to odd lots and they are listening to 758 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: odd lots, but also because of the explosion of crypto. Right. 759 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,880 Speaker 1: But much like odd lots, you have been democratizing the 760 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,799 Speaker 1: way for people to get information and educate them through 761 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,839 Speaker 1: digital needs, which is a huge component of how we're 762 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,239 Speaker 1: seeing this world take a turn. And I think that's 763 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,719 Speaker 1: you know, one of the fascinating things is for the 764 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: first time ever, students online are attending their econ one 765 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,760 Speaker 1: on one courses and they're already familiar with the supply 766 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,440 Speaker 1: and demand model because they have bitcoin. So final question 767 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 1: real quickly if we revisit, if we do a follow 768 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: up interview into five years, by then you would you 769 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 1: predict that by then cryptocurrency in some form will have 770 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,319 Speaker 1: this sort of real world corollary where the market infrastructure 771 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:59,239 Speaker 1: that you're building is actually helping people engage in recognizably commerce, 772 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 1: whether it's an investing in new businesses, doing him an 773 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,960 Speaker 1: A deals, mortgages, things like that are recognizably uses of 774 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 1: money beyond speculation. Will that happen in five years? Absolutely? Okay. 775 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 1: If you're if you're building a company in the next 776 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,279 Speaker 1: five years and you do not consider digital assets as 777 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 1: a component, you're going into this in an ignorant way. 778 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 1: All right. So it is, it is a trend that 779 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,640 Speaker 1: is picking up. It is an adoption case that is 780 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 1: pandemic resilient, and if you're planning on any business model 781 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,840 Speaker 1: going forward, I would sure hope that you make it 782 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: pandemic resilient as well. All Right, Well, September two, I'm 783 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 1: looking forward to our that's been recording this September two. 784 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 1: September second five, looking forward to our follow up. Katherine Collie, 785 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Fascinating conversation. Thank you, 786 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,120 Speaker 1: I hope to not be in my living room by then. Yeah, 787 00:46:53,160 --> 00:47:08,319 Speaker 1: I hope so too. Good luck, Thank you too, m Um. 788 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 1: Well that was Catherine Coley. If Tracy we're here, which 789 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,120 Speaker 1: she's not, we would banter for a little while. But 790 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, I'll just say my one observation is, and 791 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: it really does seem to me like there is to 792 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 1: some extent, and this is actually even true of bitcoin 793 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: as well. How this sort of random people on the 794 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,360 Speaker 1: Internet got into it before Wall Street. So much of 795 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,799 Speaker 1: crypto is backwards to me. And I don't actually mean 796 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 1: that in a negative or judgmental way. I mean that 797 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,000 Speaker 1: in a literal sense, crypto or bitcoin start off with 798 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,920 Speaker 1: sort of random people on the outside and then it's 799 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: sort of invaded a legacy finance. Crypto in general seems 800 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,239 Speaker 1: to be this thing where they're building all of these 801 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,920 Speaker 1: sort of liquidity and market infrastructure first prior to actual 802 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,080 Speaker 1: it being used in sort of recognizable finance. It feels 803 00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,280 Speaker 1: like very much the opposite of the history of finance, 804 00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 1: where you probably had loans and uh, you know, stock 805 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,560 Speaker 1: joint stock companies early on, and then people developed more 806 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:09,200 Speaker 1: sophisticated infrastructure to trade loans in stocks. So it'll be 807 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: interesting to see if that continues to develop, whether all 808 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,400 Speaker 1: this infrastructures much of its speculative does then become the 809 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:21,080 Speaker 1: sort of facilitating platform for more recognizable uses of money. 810 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,439 Speaker 1: But um, that will be the question, and like I said, 811 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 1: we'll follow up in five years. So this has been 812 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 1: another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Joe Wise 813 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,760 Speaker 1: and thought you can follow me on Twitter at the Stalwart. 814 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: Follow my co host on Twitter even though she wasn't here, 815 00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 1: Tracy Alloway at Tracy Alloway. Follow Catherine Coley on Twitter. 816 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,359 Speaker 1: Her handle is at Crypto Cooley. Follow our producer Laura 817 00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,120 Speaker 1: Carlston at Laura M. Carlston. Follow The Bloomberg had a podcast, 818 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:51,040 Speaker 1: Francesca Levy at Francesca Today and check out all of 819 00:48:51,080 --> 00:49:22,160 Speaker 1: our podcasts under the handle at podcast. Thanks for listening 820 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:09,560 Speaker 1: to