Speaker 1: Warning this podcast could teeth spoilers for the Last of
Speaker 1: Us episode four. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and
Speaker 1: I'm Rosie Knight, and welcome to x ray Vision. The
Speaker 1: Crooked Media podcast will be dived to your favorite shows, movies, comics,
Speaker 1: and pop culture.
Speaker 2: In this episode. On previously on, we're gonna be talking
Speaker 2: about the buzz from the DC Slate, an outside.
Speaker 1: The Buzz, the buzz and how much buzz Baby, how.
Speaker 2: It may have been affecting some comic book sales in
Speaker 2: a potentially positive way. In the airlock, we are going
Speaker 2: to be talking about episode four of The Last of
Speaker 2: Us on HBO Max, which sees a favor of ours
Speaker 2: enter the Fray and in out we have a theory
Speaker 2: about Deadpool entering the MCU, which you know, we're excited
Speaker 2: about because we love theories.
Speaker 1: Of course, if you want to jump around, check the
Speaker 1: show notes for time stamps. Coming up. Previously on First
Speaker 1: Up DC, more DC News reaction to the DC News
Speaker 1: of last week when James Gunn and Peter Saffran unveiled
Speaker 1: their much awaited DC Slate and folks, it's a hit.
Speaker 1: The buzz is very positive. I mean, like, you know,
Speaker 1: we were very excited by it. Every DC comic fan,
Speaker 1: every comic fan I know, was super super excited about it.
Speaker 1: I know a friend of mine who is a TV writer,
Speaker 1: was like, I'm trying to talking to my agents, trying
Speaker 1: to get that booster gold.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, Like I know that they are.
Speaker 2: This is not the only stuff that they're trying to adapt,
Speaker 2: Like James said, this is the chat stuff. So I'm like,
Speaker 2: it's time to be going to d C. I want
Speaker 2: to pitch. Yeah, I gotta love plan for a certain
Speaker 2: Vertigo comic. You know, I think a lot of people do,
Speaker 2: so I think it's an exciting time.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And one of the big news bumps was kind of this,
Speaker 2: like James Gunn did something that a lot of people
Speaker 2: in this industry do not do. James Gunn directly shouted
Speaker 2: out the comics that would be influencing these movies, and
Speaker 2: that tweet went off and everyone was like, more people
Speaker 2: need to do this, Marvel, you need to do that,
Speaker 2: and he specified, you know, as we said, it was
Speaker 2: Batman and Robin by Grant Morrison. Frank quietly, we had
Speaker 2: a Supergirl where Women of Tomorrow all start Superman. We
Speaker 2: were right by the way, we were right, and like,
Speaker 2: basically what happened was a lot of people decided they
Speaker 2: wanted to buy these books. Now I know from anecdote
Speaker 2: or evidence this is true. My comic shop Pop Fiction
Speaker 2: in Long Beach, they had a lot of people coming
Speaker 2: in to buy those books. And then James gun under
Speaker 2: a tweet where he basically kind of report it shared
Speaker 2: some reporting about how some of these books were selling
Speaker 2: out on Amazon. Supergirl Women of Tomorrow was one of them. Now, look,
Speaker 2: the comic book selling industry is very messyficial, and inefficient.
Speaker 1: It's always been inefficient.
Speaker 2: If you remember we were talking about it when Hawkeye
Speaker 2: was coming out. Hawkeye, the collection by Matt Fraction and
Speaker 2: David A. Ha had actually been out of print for
Speaker 2: a long time and they didn't get it back in
Speaker 2: stores when invinters came.
Speaker 1: There's only like two printing houses. I love get this wrong,
Speaker 1: but there's very few printers that actually do.
Speaker 2: This work and a very huge bo very few distributors.
Speaker 2: So when they say, oh, you know, Supergirl Woman of
Speaker 2: Tomorrow has sold out on Amazon, that means they don't
Speaker 2: have that many any left in their warehouse that they're
Speaker 2: stopping from but you can go to your comic shop
Speaker 2: and try and buy them. But this is great news
Speaker 2: because it's always good to see comics selling, and this
Speaker 2: is the impact that it can have to actually say
Speaker 2: this is the com we're basing on. If you think
Speaker 2: about Marvel, it is very rare to hear them say that.
Speaker 2: Even when something like Captain America, when Soldier was directly
Speaker 2: based on a comic, they were not out there promoting that.
Speaker 2: So this is very cool. I love to see comics selling.
Speaker 2: I think it's very buzzy and kind of like an
Speaker 2: interesting technique. But if it basically bullies Marvel into shouting
Speaker 2: out comics, creators and comics, I'll be happy. I'm like,
Speaker 2: James Gunn, you're doing good work.
Speaker 1: I wonder if that will happen more now. You know,
Speaker 1: they do kind of obliquely gesture at the arcs and
Speaker 1: the creators both with thanks in the movies and kind
Speaker 1: of like and like they invite Toy to the premiere
Speaker 1: and stuff. But this is yeah, this is the most
Speaker 1: overt kind of like hear are the comics. This is
Speaker 1: coming from kind of statement we've seen in this space.
Speaker 1: But I will say also that it's really cool that
Speaker 1: we're seeing the comics sell out. I think whether or
Speaker 1: not that's accurate the buzz around it, Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1: It's a great look. And secondarily, like James Gunn directly
Speaker 1: shouting out the comics, I also think is on the
Speaker 1: one hand, he should do it, and it's a thing
Speaker 1: to do. From a more cynical point of view, it's
Speaker 1: also the way that James necessarily gestures to the you know,
Speaker 1: the DC fan base that's been there, been active and
Speaker 1: hoping for this kind of statement for years, to it
Speaker 1: as a way of saying, hey, we know what we're doing,
Speaker 1: we know where this stuff comes from. I've read this stuff,
Speaker 1: I know about it. I'm deeply versed in it. You
Speaker 1: know how many times have we heard James in that
Speaker 1: statement and other times say like, DC means a lot
Speaker 1: to me. I've been reading, you know, I've been in
Speaker 1: that universe since I was a kid, and so this
Speaker 1: is more of that, and you know, it's very interest
Speaker 1: Hopefully we'll lift all boats.
Speaker 2: I totally agree also, and I mean you can even
Speaker 2: see I think the thing that's going to appeal to Marvel,
Speaker 2: Disney all the places about this is like whatever the
Speaker 2: reality of selling out, which such an exciting kind of terminology.
Speaker 2: Is the Amazon Top Comics bestseller list is reflecting people's
Speaker 2: interest in these books, and everybody loves to make money.
Speaker 2: Who's a corporation? I will say, James Gunn, this is
Speaker 2: so cool. I'm so glad you're doing it like everyone
Speaker 2: I would mind. The next step of this is like,
Speaker 2: make sure you're just shouting out those artists. The comics
Speaker 2: don't exist without the artist. Bill Quis Everly also made
Speaker 2: Women of Tomorrow, you know, Frank Quietly made All Star Superman,
Speaker 2: Batman and Robin Like. That's the one thing is I
Speaker 2: think we're still stuck in that idea of like Tom
Speaker 2: King's Women of Tomorrow or Grant Morrison's you know, All
Speaker 2: Star Superman. But we need let's do I'm not expecting
Speaker 2: a full creator credit. You don't have to shout out
Speaker 2: as much as I would love that, but let's just
Speaker 2: let's just get to the point where when we share
Speaker 2: those comics, we're shouting out the artists too, because this
Speaker 2: medium doesn't exist without them.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: I love to see it. Also, I was very happy
Speaker 2: because after the Swamp Thing announcement, where they were like
Speaker 2: it's going to be a dark horror story directed by
Speaker 2: James Mangold. We can now pretty firmly say he's in
Speaker 2: talks about it. They then shared the Alan Moore Swamp
Speaker 2: Thing first volume and said this is what it's based on,
Speaker 2: which is like a sexy, weird like romance book. So
Speaker 2: I'm all, I'm happy about it. I'm happy about it.
Speaker 2: It's going to be great.
Speaker 1: Up next, dear luck Well, we're stepping out of the
Speaker 1: airlock and into a piece of shit Chevy.
Speaker 2: Pickup truck that feels like a spaceship.
Speaker 1: This feels like a spaceship as we rode trip WestEd
Speaker 1: to episode four of HBO's The Last of Us. This
Speaker 1: episode titled Please Hold to My Hand, written by Craig Mason,
Speaker 1: directed by Jeremy Webb, and we open with Ellie pointing
Speaker 1: a gun into a mirror at herself and basically doing TAXI,
Speaker 1: Are you talking to me? Are you talking to me?
Speaker 1: She's got her gun. She's making little pewpew sound, she
Speaker 1: pops the mag checks the rounds. She is so excited
Speaker 1: to have her web.
Speaker 2: But let's say congratulations to Ellie. She is a cheat.
Speaker 2: She manifested this. She wanted a gun. She asked for
Speaker 2: a gun, she made it, found a gun, she made
Speaker 2: it happen, and guess what she was actually right, She
Speaker 2: does need a gun, and we're gonna find out why
Speaker 2: very soon.
Speaker 1: Ellie got a gun. She's practicing with the gun, making
Speaker 1: little pewpew sounds. She pops the Megan checks the rounds,
Speaker 1: and then she returns to Joel. They are at a
Speaker 1: rest stop. Joel is siphoning fuel and he's telling Ellie
Speaker 1: both why they need to do this so often, because gas,
Speaker 1: as I have been railing about, He exage a discord,
Speaker 1: gas breaks down over time, like if you just leave
Speaker 1: it in the tank, it'll break down over time, get
Speaker 1: less effective. And so Joel is having to do this
Speaker 1: a lot. And then he's explaining the physics behind how
Speaker 1: siphoning works, and Ellie is roasting him because clearly he
Speaker 1: doesn't actually know how it works. And then things take
Speaker 1: a turn for really the dangerous, the tragic. Ellie pulls
Speaker 1: out a book of puns. It's time for jokes. She says,
Speaker 1: what did the mermaid? Where did her math class? And
Speaker 1: algae bra and Joel is like, fuck this shit. Yes,
Speaker 1: he's absolutely fed up.
Speaker 2: With it.
Speaker 1: They continue on the road. In this part of what
Speaker 1: is officially the Midwest is just littered with vehicles. Ellie
Speaker 1: is like, oh, I want to see a tank. I
Speaker 1: hope I see a tank, and Joel's like, you will.
Speaker 1: There'll be a tank out here because the military was
Speaker 1: all around and very active in those days, and you
Speaker 1: will definitely see a tank, Ellie. He shows Joel a
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff that she scavenged from Bill and Franks
Speaker 1: in that all too short a time that they spent.
Speaker 2: Esske it.
Speaker 1: First one Hank Williams cassette. Okay, she shaved it.
Speaker 2: She's like, you're old, you like this and he's like, no,
Speaker 2: that's before my time. But actually it's a banger, so
Speaker 2: put it on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, put it on. And then next up a bear
Speaker 1: skin magazine done little porno mag action and this makes
Speaker 1: Joel tremendously uncomfortable, which Ellie loves. And then Ellie says,
Speaker 1: gosh in a in a by the way, in exchange
Speaker 1: directly ripped from the video game, as much of this
Speaker 1: episode actually was, she says, well, why are the pages
Speaker 1: stuck together?
Speaker 2: Joels is like h.
Speaker 1: And She's like you, I'm fucking with you. And then
Speaker 1: she throws it out the window, which I have to say,
Speaker 1: this is a miss steak laden episode. Our characters make
Speaker 1: a ton of mistakes this episode, and I would argue,
Speaker 1: and I'm dead serious, I think this is one of them.
Speaker 1: I'm not like that has value to somebody.
Speaker 2: Dude, I'm saying, in a bing trading world. How much
Speaker 2: gay porn is there left in this world? I don't know,
Speaker 2: but not a lot. And this is a physical magazine
Speaker 2: also base level, base level you could use it for fuel,
Speaker 2: like you could burn it, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like I feel like you're not survivally. This is they're
Speaker 2: getting a bit comfortable, as we will see multiple times
Speaker 2: this episode.
Speaker 1: A lighter, two lighters or something, you know what.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Like there's probably will give you like one
Speaker 2: ration card or just even just like some information or
Speaker 2: just like making a friend, you know, like a Joel's
Speaker 2: not really a friend guy, so an alliance. It seems silly. Also,
Speaker 2: I will say I was very happy to see Ellie's
Speaker 2: bad jokes making it into the show because that's again
Speaker 2: it's like another key we get. This episode is just
Speaker 2: like straight from the game. But yeah, as soon as
Speaker 2: she threw that out of the window. I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: don't do that. Don't know that, Like, what are you thinking.
Speaker 1: Yeah. They drive on and at dusk Joel pulls off
Speaker 1: the road. They make camp at a clearing in some
Speaker 1: woods and for dinner, twenty year old chef boyardy. That
Speaker 1: guy is good. Eliss.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, just want to say scientific here. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I've seen people open twenty year old cans of stuff.
Speaker 2: It doesn't go that well, but I like the intention,
Speaker 2: and you know what, I like that her and Joel
Speaker 2: agree on this. Chef body is good.
Speaker 1: Did they have that in England? Did chef make it
Speaker 1: over there?
Speaker 2: They don't have. He never made it there with his
Speaker 2: Michelin Star canned restaurant. He was like, he was like,
Speaker 2: it's too far. But they do have they have like
Speaker 2: very very similar Hines actually makes like very similar situation
Speaker 2: in England.
Speaker 1: Okay, so Joel, they're making camp, They're eating and talking
Speaker 1: about the trip ahead. Joel figures, Okay, if we get
Speaker 1: out of here by first light, we should make Wyoming
Speaker 1: by the day after, which is a good time. Ellie
Speaker 1: asks if they can light a fire. She's cold, says no,
Speaker 1: and not because as you might expect because there are
Speaker 1: zombies out here, that's the infected her. I guess this
Speaker 1: is too sparsely populated area for there to be a
Speaker 1: pressing danger of infected, which I would still be like
Speaker 1: fuck that, no, But because of people, people might see
Speaker 1: the light, people might see what's going on. I would
Speaker 1: as people are on a discord, we're saying, why wudn't
Speaker 1: you sleep in the bed of the truck, I would
Speaker 1: sleep under the truck.
Speaker 2: Like I don't care.
Speaker 1: I don't care if you tell me that there's no
Speaker 1: infected out here.
Speaker 2: I'm still like I'm sleeping like under the chat in
Speaker 2: the front, under some tops, like I'm high. Joel's very
Speaker 2: comfortable guy, He's very He's We will get to Joel
Speaker 2: being way way too comfortable very soon.
Speaker 1: They lay down to sleep, and then Ellie has a
Speaker 1: very very serious question for Joel. She says, Joel, she
Speaker 1: turns on her light. First of all, Joel, why did
Speaker 1: the scarecrow get an award? And Joel, after a beat, says,
Speaker 1: because he was outstanding in his field? You did did
Speaker 1: you read this? And we get the first real smile,
Speaker 1: crack of a smile.
Speaker 2: It's at edge.
Speaker 1: You love to see it. I was just laughing about, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're not going to build a fire, because what if
Speaker 1: people see would the like, how bad would it be
Speaker 1: to get killed by raiders because they saw you light
Speaker 1: your flashlight to read a book of puns?
Speaker 2: I know, I know, seriously, I get it, like the
Speaker 2: thing I love about and we're obviously like ragging. The
Speaker 2: show is amazing. The episode is amazing. The point is
Speaker 2: like the point of the whole story as we saw
Speaker 2: the last episode, as we kind of get seen, is
Speaker 2: about finding joy and those moments being worth that risk.
Speaker 2: But in the moment when you're watching it, you're like, guys,
Speaker 2: don't get your head chopped off by a guy with
Speaker 2: a machete to read a joke, like please.
Speaker 1: It is very good that they feel less fear they
Speaker 1: live in this world they were you know exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's just you know, as a kid would doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: feel the danger around her. But it's like, if you
Speaker 1: air drop me into this into twenty twenty three of
Speaker 1: you know, plus twenty years of an outbreak of fungal zombies,
Speaker 1: I would be a mess all the time.
Speaker 2: If I survived, I would be stressed. I would be
Speaker 2: I'd be more of a bill pre pre meeting Frank,
Speaker 2: like I would be like locked in my house. But
Speaker 2: you know what, I do love. I think something about
Speaker 2: this episode is after the power of episode three, this
Speaker 2: could maybe feel a bit like a leading episode or
Speaker 2: kind of an intro episode, But actually I do think
Speaker 2: there is so much small, nuanced time that we get
Speaker 2: to spend with Joel and Ellie here that you'll really
Speaker 2: get and see that bonding and the kind of part
Speaker 2: of the comfortable, the too comfortable situation therein is because
Speaker 2: they're getting comfortable around each other and they're starting to
Speaker 2: feel like there's someone who love.
Speaker 1: To see it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you love to see it. It's gonna end badly currently,
Speaker 2: but I love I do love to see it.
Speaker 1: The next morning, Ellie sees coffee for the first time.
Speaker 1: She is confounded by it. It stinks. Joel is like
Speaker 1: just slurping it up in the car, making fun of
Speaker 1: her for thinking it's gross, to which I was. I
Speaker 1: was saying this in the discord. You know they're just
Speaker 1: ripping ass in that car. Oh yeah, right, Like there's
Speaker 1: no modesty. It's not like you're not hiding it in.
Speaker 1: They just ate a can of twenty year old chef
Speaker 1: boy or d and chase it with coffee twenty year
Speaker 1: old coffee. Absolutely, there are big time farts being ripped
Speaker 1: in that car.
Speaker 2: It's happening, and it's and they're just like going with
Speaker 2: it because the truth is that you're probably gonna see
Speaker 2: someone turn into like an evil fungal monster at some point.
Speaker 2: So it's like if you just be fought and like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, yeah.
Speaker 1: Ellie's like, so, uh, tell me where you're going again,
Speaker 1: and Joel is like, uh so we're gonna uh my
Speaker 1: brother Tommy. The last time I heard from him. Excuse me,
Speaker 1: So last time I heard from Tommy he was close
Speaker 1: to Cody Wyoming. And Ellie's like, yeah, let me just
Speaker 1: check them out. Yeah, that's way up there. Uh so
Speaker 1: that's very very far out. And then Joel opening up
Speaker 1: now because recall it was not that long ago that
Speaker 1: Joel was like hard ruled, don't ask me about my histories,
Speaker 1: and I won't ask you.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, Joel is telling Ellie about Tommy.
Speaker 1: He says, Tommy is what you call a dreamed of
Speaker 1: becoming a hero. So he joined the army right out
Speaker 1: of high school. A few months later, they shipped him
Speaker 1: off the desert storm. Twelve years later, outbreak happens and
Speaker 1: he convinces me to join a group making their way
Speaker 1: up to Boston, and Joel basically says he did to
Speaker 1: keep an eye on Tommy, keep him out of trouble,
Speaker 1: and that's where he met Tess. Some point after Tommy
Speaker 1: fell in with Marlene and the Fireflies, and Joel says,
Speaker 1: of that same mistake he made when he was eighteen.
Speaker 1: He wants to save the world, and last Joel heard,
Speaker 1: Tommy had quit the Fireflies and now he's I guess,
Speaker 1: floating around on his own somewhere out in Wyoming doing
Speaker 1: who knows what. Ellie asks Joel a very important question,
Speaker 1: which is how does he keep going without any hope
Speaker 1: that the world can be better? Like, how do you
Speaker 1: just do that? And Joel says, basically, you don't understand what.
Speaker 1: You haven't seen the things I've seen. You haven't been
Speaker 1: out here, been out here. I understand what the world
Speaker 1: is like. You see this hopeless existence that I'm living.
Speaker 1: I'm living a realistic existence. You don't understand that. And
Speaker 1: then he tells her you keep going for family. That's
Speaker 1: about it. Ellie is like, oh, like me, and he's like, no,
Speaker 1: not like you. I made a promise to test that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. He's like you are cargo.
Speaker 1: Your cargo flat out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which I think you actually make a really good point.
Speaker 2: I actually think this is more of like a defense
Speaker 2: mechanism because, like you said, Joel had said, oh, don't
Speaker 2: talk to me about my family, don't talk to me
Speaker 2: about this, and then suddenly he's like opening up. He's
Speaker 2: talking about this person that he also doesn't even really
Speaker 2: talk to tests about, like like Tommy is like off
Speaker 2: limits because of their argument and their beef about the fireflies.
Speaker 2: But then he's just telling this girl. So it's that
Speaker 2: moment when she's like, so, am I family and he's
Speaker 2: got to be like, no, no, your cargo. I don't
Speaker 2: you don't mean anything, because yeah, it's such an iconic
Speaker 2: moment and it's like you're just cargo. It's like, sure, bro,
Speaker 2: not to mention.
Speaker 1: Not to mention the You know, there's going to be
Speaker 1: more moments that call to mind Sarah and particularly there
Speaker 1: last night, but like here's Joel in the truck with
Speaker 1: a teenage girl in the Apocalypse.
Speaker 2: And Tommy's still in the conversation, so still in the conversation,
Speaker 2: you know, like it's happening again. Actually, that's such a
Speaker 2: good point because also when Sarah and Joel first escape
Speaker 2: out of the car, all Sarah's doing is asking about Tommy.
Speaker 2: Where's Tommy? How do we get back to Uncle Tommy?
Speaker 2: We can't leave him behind. So even that conversation coming
Speaker 2: from a different place with Ellie, who just wants to
Speaker 2: have more context, she's also still asking where's Tommy? Like
Speaker 2: it's that's such a great point.
Speaker 1: So Ellie nods off, and then he says about Tommy.
Speaker 1: You know. Ellie asks, how can you be sure you're
Speaker 1: gonna find him? And Joel says, I think the one
Speaker 1: most important thing about him as a character, I'm persistent Joel.
Speaker 1: As we were going to see in this episode very shortly,
Speaker 1: when Joel gets an idea in his head, you can't
Speaker 1: get it out. You're not going to get it out
Speaker 1: of his head. He's for better, often for worse, and
Speaker 1: hopefully for better. Ellie nodge off when she wakes up.
Speaker 1: The truck is on a highway entrance to Kansas City,
Speaker 1: and the way through is, as one would expect, blocked,
Speaker 1: and it looks very suspiciously blocked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's purposefully blocked.
Speaker 1: It's purposefully blocked.
Speaker 2: And if you're a game guy here and you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: this has been very close to the game. Now we're diverging,
Speaker 2: you can basically just Kansas City is standing in here
Speaker 2: for Pittsburg. We don't know why, the exact choice, but
Speaker 2: this was this is basically the chapter in the game
Speaker 2: that was Pittsburg. And you will recognize that as soon
Speaker 2: as you see the blocked street.
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. So they're stopped at this roadblock. Joel
Speaker 1: gets out to briefly kind of examine it, comes back,
Speaker 1: Ellie's got the map. They look and they're trying to
Speaker 1: figure out, okay, like how far back do we have
Speaker 1: to go before we can get around this? And then
Speaker 1: the answer must be too far. And Joel thinking about,
Speaker 1: you know, much like Bill thinking about resource management. How
Speaker 1: many times I get fucking siphon gas? How many times
Speaker 1: I get to siphon gas?
Speaker 2: Here?
Speaker 1: Do I want to do that? And he decides no, Instead,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna Leroy Jenkins this fucking roadblock and we're just
Speaker 1: gonna cut through the city and find a way through.
Speaker 1: That's it. We'll be back on the road in a minute.
Speaker 2: Tops he says, from New York, Bro, this is a
Speaker 2: bad yeah, Like just.
Speaker 1: Just go that horror movie one on one the lies.
Speaker 2: They literally just came from an area where it was
Speaker 2: so uninfected and so like just no one there that
Speaker 2: they could sleep outside. Like, just go back and find
Speaker 2: a different way around. Do not go through the city. Especially.
Speaker 2: This is especially dumb because, as Joel is about to reveal,
Speaker 2: he has also been on the other side of this.
Speaker 1: He's done ambushes before.
Speaker 2: So what happens?
Speaker 1: They get an ambush, almost like shocking. They're driving past
Speaker 1: what turns out to be the abandoned QZ. Something has
Speaker 1: happened to the QZ where it's the doors are flung open.
Speaker 1: They've they've been feder has been either overrun or overthrown.
Speaker 1: And as soon as they see that, they see a
Speaker 1: guy down the road who appears appears to be injured
Speaker 1: and he's calling for help. Joel immediately sniffs out that
Speaker 1: this is an ambush. He floors it. Next thing you know,
Speaker 1: a cinderblock is crashing through the windshield. Next thing you know,
Speaker 1: the truck is running over a board studded with nails.
Speaker 1: Next thing you know, the truck is getting shot at
Speaker 1: this one like he does bad.
Speaker 2: He should have reversed as soon.
Speaker 1: As he saw the guy, and next thing you know,
Speaker 1: the truck is crashing into a garage.
Speaker 2: Now, bill's the oldest time.
Speaker 1: I'll point out a couple of things. One, the batting
Speaker 1: average of riding in a truck with Joel is bad
Speaker 1: against number two. I will point out that immediately Joel
Speaker 1: is like, are you hurt or you yes? Because why
Speaker 1: because here it is it's happening again. He's riding in
Speaker 1: a truck running from dangerous and his enemy.
Speaker 2: Is the problem again because because he's his stubbornness. Because
Speaker 2: with Joel and Tommy it's this, it's this same thing.
Speaker 2: When then the opening night with Sarah is like he's
Speaker 2: convinced they have to just keep going through, they have
Speaker 2: to keep going through, and he makes that same mistake
Speaker 2: here again. He could have reversed, They could have gone
Speaker 2: a different way around, they could have gone a different route.
Speaker 2: America is a big country. He knows he fucked up.
Speaker 2: And here again is a teenage girl who is in
Speaker 2: his care who suddenly has to deal with It's not
Speaker 2: just the car crash this time it's an ambush. These
Speaker 2: are not infected. It's like we're getting to that play.
Speaker 2: This is that important pivotal episode that we've kind of
Speaker 2: been hinting towards and talking about in all zombie law.
Speaker 2: And yes, the infected are not undead. The the corterceps
Speaker 2: cannot bring the dead back to life. But zombie is
Speaker 2: a catchual. You know, it's the ghouls, it's the it's
Speaker 2: the quarter sceps infected, but you know they are not
Speaker 2: the real threat. The real threat is the humans. That's
Speaker 2: always the way all of these stories, whether it's The Road,
Speaker 2: whether it's you know, Night of the Living Dead, the
Speaker 2: real threat is humans and the brutality that they will
Speaker 2: enact to protect themselves. Or you know, think about the
Speaker 2: Walking Dead. You've got cannibals, You've got all kinds of
Speaker 2: different spaces and people who will do whatever they need
Speaker 2: to do to survive. And Joel just realizes he's put
Speaker 2: Ellie into that very situation that he's allegedly been trying
Speaker 2: to kind of avoid and protect that from.
Speaker 1: And so here is Joel. It's his mistake and he
Speaker 1: knows it. He may have just consigned a girl in
Speaker 1: his care to death. Again, just as happened, just as
Speaker 1: happened years ago. He's freaking out about it, Are you okay?
Speaker 1: He immediately this gunfight is going on. He immediately sends
Speaker 1: her to safety through like a hole in the wall
Speaker 1: to like hang out on the other side of the wall.
Speaker 1: He takes out two of the attackers with his gun,
Speaker 1: loses sight of a third who sneaks up behind him,
Speaker 1: gets the drop on him, and now it's one of
Speaker 1: those famous smash square button yeah fights where Joel is
Speaker 1: trying to hold off this guy that's on top of him.
Speaker 2: And the guy's like choking him with a gun, choking him.
Speaker 1: Ellie is watching this happen and she realizes, oh, I
Speaker 1: have a gun. She gets her gun out of the knapsack,
Speaker 1: walks up, shoots the guy in the back and it's
Speaker 1: now it is this really I thought affecting moment where
Speaker 1: it reminded me of the kind of the death at
Speaker 1: the end of Saving Private Ryan, where like, I forget
Speaker 1: the name of the character who's just like as the
Speaker 1: Nazi is about to plunge the knife into his chest,
Speaker 1: is like, oh no, no, no, no, a time out
Speaker 1: time after you know, like, now this this guy who
Speaker 1: is very young, a young man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you realize he's basically a kid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is like, oh no, no, we're not fighting anymore.
Speaker 1: That we didn't need to do this.
Speaker 2: This is a good knife.
Speaker 1: My mom is close by, you could take me to her.
Speaker 1: Begging for his life, pleading for his life in a
Speaker 1: way that honestly felt like this is what I would do.
Speaker 1: I would be It was sucking life.
Speaker 2: And it's so sad because it shows that the way
Speaker 2: the disassociative nature of what people are having to do
Speaker 2: in this world. He was ready to kill Joel and
Speaker 2: Ellie like a little kid. He was just ready to
Speaker 2: do it. But the moment that he realized that he
Speaker 2: was on the other side of it, he suddenly has
Speaker 2: this human realization of oh my god, I don't want
Speaker 2: to die.
Speaker 1: It was a wise I think it was so affecting
Speaker 1: and I think important to do because this is a
Speaker 1: story based on a game in which, in the course
Speaker 1: of carrying out the story, you, as Joel, will likely
Speaker 1: kill three hundred four hundred at least some large amount
Speaker 1: of people. And so here is a really important moment
Speaker 1: where that taking of a life is brought home. The
Speaker 1: importancye the impact of it, and you know what it's
Speaker 1: brought into this.
Speaker 2: That's such a great point because I think something that's
Speaker 2: always dangerous, and I'm someone I love action movies. I
Speaker 2: love John Wick, you know, a gun Fu movie where
Speaker 2: you're constantly seeing people being shot. But something about gaming
Speaker 2: and like first person shooter games and games where you
Speaker 2: are current always killing, you can lose the impact of death.
Speaker 2: And instead here, instead of showing testing Joel killing hundreds
Speaker 2: of people blah blah blah blah, here what you see
Speaker 2: instead is this incredibly intimate reality of what it's like
Speaker 2: to take a life and it is such a responsible,
Speaker 2: heartbreaking interesting and instead of him just like sniping someone
Speaker 2: out of a window, which you do in the game,
Speaker 2: you know, those kind of things like or shooting someone
Speaker 2: from Afar with a gun. There's so much emotion here,
Speaker 2: and then there's this really like scary, sad, kind of horrible,
Speaker 2: dread inducing moment where Joel tells Ellie go back, go back,
Speaker 2: and the guy is begging Ellie like, don't go, because
Speaker 2: he's not gonna do it if you're here, and Ellie
Speaker 2: just turns around and walks away, and the guy starts
Speaker 2: and you realize that Joel's gonna kill him.
Speaker 1: So Joel finishes the man off with his knife and
Speaker 1: and Joel and Ellie come back together. They now have
Speaker 1: to hide, they have to run from the reinforcements that
Speaker 1: they know are coming. And this is incredible acting by
Speaker 1: Bella because here Ellie is she just killed somebody. I
Speaker 1: know she didn't finish him off, but she for all
Speaker 1: intents and purposes, just killed the guy and watched him
Speaker 1: beg for his life. And she is trying to play
Speaker 1: it off like she's fine, Hey, so, uh yeah, I
Speaker 1: packed my gun up and let's uh, we should I
Speaker 1: saw a tall building over there, we should probably get
Speaker 1: an advantage point. I'm good, by the way, I'm fine,
Speaker 1: don't worry about me.
Speaker 2: And this is where Joel his paternal instincts start coming out,
Speaker 2: because to him, this is something this is something Sarah
Speaker 2: never had to do. And for some reason in Joel's
Speaker 2: like very blurry moral compass, the idea that a kid
Speaker 2: has to kill someone is really horrific. And he keeps saying,
Speaker 2: you shouldn't have to do that your age, are you okay?
Speaker 2: And Ellie's like I'm fine, I'm fine, Like let's just
Speaker 2: go like I'm fine, you know, and you start to
Speaker 2: get some of that gameplay where you're hiding through this
Speaker 2: sh streets kind of China. You've got to stealth your
Speaker 2: way through avoiding these you know, they don't name them this,
Speaker 2: but we know from the game that this is some
Speaker 2: kind of representation of the Hunters and people who are
Speaker 2: part of that that Hunter community. I think Neil Drugman
Speaker 2: actually spoke about this in an interview, saying that like
Speaker 2: this is going to be, they're going to serve a
Speaker 2: different purpose in the game. They're direct antagonists without much
Speaker 2: more expansion, But as we see from this episode and
Speaker 2: the arrival of one of our favorite actresses who's about
Speaker 2: to turn up soon, Melanielinski, this is going to be
Speaker 2: a more complex and probably play a far bigger part
Speaker 2: than they did in the game.
Speaker 1: Agreed, X Ray Vision will be back, and we're back.
Speaker 1: Joel and Ellie head off. They're dodging arm patrols. They're
Speaker 1: looking for a hiding spot, and we go elsewhere in
Speaker 1: the city where we find Kathleen played by Melanie Lynsky
Speaker 1: in what used to be a federal facility surely is
Speaker 1: not now a FEDERI jail cell. She is interrogating a
Speaker 1: prisoner who we soon come to find out as a doctor,
Speaker 1: and she's reading a list of names, clearly dissidents who
Speaker 1: are in hiding from her group. And I think the
Speaker 1: thing that we can kind of piece together from this
Speaker 1: in other conversations is Kathleen, whose family was unjustly wronged
Speaker 1: by fed her brother apparently beaten to death in these
Speaker 1: very same interrogation cells. Kathleen sparked led whatever a rebellion
Speaker 1: against fed Yes, which she now is continuing to lead,
Speaker 1: And what is happening now is a mop up operation
Speaker 1: where she is kind of organizing the hunt for feder
Speaker 1: collaborators so that they can we can only assume, be
Speaker 1: put to death, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think as well as this implication here in
Speaker 2: the game, the hunters anyone who crosses that path, they
Speaker 2: call them tourists, and they just kill them. And I
Speaker 2: think there's this implication where even if you maybe want
Speaker 2: connected to FEDRA, if you show up and you came
Speaker 2: from another QZ, you're a Federick collaborator. Like there's no
Speaker 2: question here. This is just an assumption they make and
Speaker 2: they will kill you.
Speaker 1: So Kathleen is saying, it tells this doctor, Hey, you
Speaker 1: know my brother was killed in these cells, like you
Speaker 1: know what about that? And the doctor is saying, you're wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but this has to stop, whatever this rebellion
Speaker 1: that Kathleen has fomented, And she says, I think something
Speaker 1: that's you know, really honestly is pretty authoritative. If I
Speaker 1: disagree with her methods, but I think this is pretty strong.
Speaker 1: She says, this is this has to stop now, you
Speaker 1: mean when you're in the cell, And she points out
Speaker 1: that now that this person who was protected and felt secure,
Speaker 1: now that he's put in danger and his skin and
Speaker 1: is in the game, all of a sudden, oh no,
Speaker 1: we got to put a stop to this. But previously,
Speaker 1: when the regime that he was supporting was doing the
Speaker 1: very same things that they are now doing, it was
Speaker 1: had very.
Speaker 2: Little and we know fed was literally like hanging people
Speaker 2: in the street like they were brutal.
Speaker 1: So the man points out that while I was doing
Speaker 1: that under dress, I had a gun to my head.
Speaker 1: So she pulls out a gun and says, okay, what
Speaker 1: about Now, where are the people I'm looking for? And
Speaker 1: she seems she is particularly interested in finding a man
Speaker 1: named Henry Burrell, who apparently put the finger on Kathleen's
Speaker 1: brother or perhaps the rest of her family to Fedra
Speaker 1: and is now in hiding somewhere in the city. Kathleen knows,
Speaker 1: and she desperately.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's like obsessed with him, and she kind of
Speaker 2: has this paranoid feeling that he's kind of planning something.
Speaker 2: This is his work whatever. She sees him as this
Speaker 2: almost like overarching puppetmaster of anything that's gone wrong in
Speaker 2: her life.
Speaker 1: The interrogation is interrupt by the arrival of a patrol
Speaker 1: that is bringing back the bodies of the ambushers that
Speaker 1: that Joelt died away with. In Kathleen's mind, as you mentioned, Rosie,
Speaker 1: this is Henry's work. Yeah, if he has a radio,
Speaker 1: he might have called in reinforcements and this is them.
Speaker 1: And then in a rage at this loss of life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she's back in. There's a great line where
Speaker 2: she goes, can you save him? And they're like no,
Speaker 2: and she's like, what if I had a doctor And
Speaker 2: they're like it's useless, too late, and.
Speaker 1: She just she goes back in and executes him. This doctor,
Speaker 1: by the way, who at one point in the interrogation says,
Speaker 1: I delivered you. This is like the intimate bonds and
Speaker 1: are being torn apart here are really notable. And she
Speaker 1: says then to her gathered militia, she said, this is
Speaker 1: Henry's work and he won't stop until we stop him.
Speaker 1: Find every collaborator and kill them all. And then Kathleen's
Speaker 1: people head off into the city and they just kind
Speaker 1: of like knock down random doors and drag people off,
Speaker 1: apparently to be killed like with proof. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like it. Joel and Ellie are watching
Speaker 1: all of this from a hiding spot, and this is
Speaker 1: exactly what Joel meant when he said, people think you
Speaker 1: need to watch everybody.
Speaker 2: This is it.
Speaker 1: We'll watch this. And Ellie, continuing again to pretend like
Speaker 1: she's fine, has noticed a tall building a few blocks over,
Speaker 1: and Joel is like, yeah, I saw it too. This
Speaker 1: is where we're gonna go. We're gonna go there so
Speaker 1: we can get a vantage point and find a path
Speaker 1: out of the city. And this is the moment where
Speaker 1: Joel kind of sensing this shield that Ellie has put
Speaker 1: up around herself, wants to basically take the burden off
Speaker 1: of her shoulders and put it on his because he
Speaker 1: understands that he fucked up. He says, you're just a kid.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't know what it means to you know, it's
Speaker 1: not like you killed them. And Joel continues, you know, saying, basically,
Speaker 1: I know how hard it is the first time you
Speaker 1: kill someone or you hurt them badly. It can be
Speaker 1: it can be bad. And Joel also is doing this
Speaker 1: because you know, he's apologizing. He's saying, this is my fault. Now,
Speaker 1: he says it's his fault because he didn't hear the
Speaker 1: guy sneak up on him. Joel of course has his
Speaker 1: hearing has been damaged from years of shooting at people.
Speaker 2: But it's also hilarious because in the game, Joe has
Speaker 2: like superherring that you can, like you can like hand
Speaker 2: through the wolves like you're in Spider Man or Batman
Speaker 2: or any of those other kind of games. So that's
Speaker 2: like a good a good reconsideration of like grounding him
Speaker 2: in the real world a little bit more.
Speaker 1: A great now, I would point out, And I think
Speaker 1: the character also knows that it's not his fault because
Speaker 1: the guy snuck up on him. It's his fault because
Speaker 1: he decided to drive through and crush the city. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was gonna obviously be occupied in some form of
Speaker 1: fat like why did you fucking do that? So you know,
Speaker 1: he's apologizing, but in a very dadlike fashion. This is
Speaker 1: this actually like resonates if anybody has ever had a
Speaker 1: parent apologize to them, I don't know about like your
Speaker 1: personal experience, but it's never really They always obliquely do
Speaker 1: it and never truly come clean on the.
Speaker 2: Thing that he felt me that way kind of apology.
Speaker 1: So here's Joel not apologizing but also kind of like
Speaker 1: not apologing for the thing that he actually did. And
Speaker 1: then Ellie says something important, which is that it wasn't
Speaker 1: her first time hurting somebody, but she refuses. Now it's
Speaker 1: her turn to close the doors and not expound on
Speaker 1: what that means. Joel then decides, you know what, we
Speaker 1: didn't stay at Bill and Frank's, where I could have
Speaker 1: taught Ellie how to shoot in safety. But you know what, fuck,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it now. He takes he has Ellie
Speaker 1: take her gun out, He shows her how to hold it.
Speaker 1: He uh, and honestly, that's about it. He just shows
Speaker 1: her how to He's just like puts the mag back
Speaker 1: in and he hands it to her. We go back
Speaker 1: to Kathleen where Kathleen's lieutenant who I'm calling thor old
Speaker 1: gray Man from Skyrim. He looks exactly like he really does.
Speaker 1: He looks exactly like the blacksmith of of White Run.
Speaker 1: He has some intel on Henry. Apparently they found the
Speaker 1: recent hiding place of Henry, and he leads Kathleen there.
Speaker 1: It's a attic somewhere in a building somewhere. There's cans
Speaker 1: of food there and notably child's drawings of like Superman
Speaker 1: saving something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like a huge moment because I think
Speaker 2: they do a really interesting job. Kathleen has created for
Speaker 2: the show, and I think they do a really interesting
Speaker 2: job of like she's incredibly brutal and she kills someone
Speaker 2: in a fit of rage, but there's some kind of
Speaker 2: notion here of a revolution of a community that she's protecting.
Speaker 2: It's more so far it's been more more really gray
Speaker 2: than obviously evil. But then when you find out that
Speaker 2: whoever Henry is, and if you know who he is,
Speaker 2: if you've played the game, but if you don't, he's
Speaker 2: helping protect a kid and that's the person that she
Speaker 2: wants to destroy and kill, and it's a very smart
Speaker 2: bit of visual storytelling.
Speaker 1: I agree this resonates too, because you know, oftentimes we
Speaker 1: tell ourselves that we're doing something because of ideals. In
Speaker 1: this case, Kathleen supporting the revolution and you know, bringing
Speaker 1: to justice the collaborators who are trying to bring down
Speaker 1: our more just society after we've overthrown Federa YadA, yah YadA.
Speaker 1: But really it's question of this that they's something personal
Speaker 1: on top of this kind of political you know, scaffolding
Speaker 1: that she's erected. There is something deeply personal about her
Speaker 1: chasing Henry. It is this kid, her child, we don't know,
Speaker 1: but it's clearly personal. They leave there and then Kathleen's
Speaker 1: lieutenant thor Old grey Maine is like, oh, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: something else I have to show you. So they go
Speaker 1: to like a basement or a garage, and there they
Speaker 1: see the concrete floor is cracked and it is it
Speaker 1: is slowly sagging down, and as it SAgs down, it's
Speaker 1: also like bubbling up, like something is pressing again the
Speaker 1: floor beneath there. Is it for those who play the game,
Speaker 1: is this bloaters That's what the hen thing at some
Speaker 1: kind of fungal balloon, like a bubble that will pop
Speaker 1: up fungus. But it feels like we're gonna see bloaters
Speaker 1: or some kind of infected break into the city. Thor
Speaker 1: Old gray Mane is like, should we tell the others?
Speaker 1: When do we tell him? And Kathleen's like not yet,
Speaker 1: badly classic bad leadership. She's like, let's take care of
Speaker 1: this absolutely insane and meaningless paranoia. I have of two
Speaker 1: fucking people. One is like a guy in other words,
Speaker 1: a child, Rather than deal with the obviously pressing issue
Speaker 1: of what appears to be infected.
Speaker 2: And like one of the kind of infected.
Speaker 1: Anyway, Joel and Ellie make their way to the tall building.
Speaker 1: We get some wonderful co op kind of adaptation from
Speaker 1: the gameplay where Joel is scooting Ellie up into a
Speaker 1: hole in the wall the thing you do a boost,
Speaker 1: a thing you do time and time and time again
Speaker 1: in the games. And they head up now this forty
Speaker 1: plus flights of Stais to the top of this building.
Speaker 1: They'll go essentially as far as Joel's fifty six year
Speaker 1: old bones will allow them to go. On the way up,
Speaker 1: Ellie asks Joel, how do you know we're getting ambushed?
Speaker 1: And Joel makes a very important admission here. He says
Speaker 1: that he's been on quote both sides of this, meaning
Speaker 1: he's ambushed people's He says further that he Tommy and
Speaker 1: tests the group that they were running with when they
Speaker 1: were going up to Boston, quote did what they had
Speaker 1: to do to survive, to which Ellie asks, did you
Speaker 1: ever hurt innocent? You ever kill anybody innocent? And Joel
Speaker 1: doesn't answer, which I think clearly means.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, And I asked no question. By the way, Joel,
Speaker 2: literally I thought of you here because I think this
Speaker 2: is setting something up really interesting. So you talked about
Speaker 2: how the Bill and Frank relationship is this kind of
Speaker 2: like it's like a mirror for Joel of like, what
Speaker 2: if you let people in and loved them in the
Speaker 2: way they wanted to be loved and respected their agency.
Speaker 2: I think this establishes another reflection of Joel, which is
Speaker 2: probably going to be Kathleen as we get more into
Speaker 2: the story, And that's the what if you never learned
Speaker 2: that you shouldn't do that, or what if you never
Speaker 2: put anything above vengeance or survival? What if you did
Speaker 2: the most brutal version of it? And I think that
Speaker 2: is going to be a very important tipping point for
Speaker 2: Joel to reconsider his any means necessary mindset, which is
Speaker 2: obviously going to lead to like the finale of the show.
Speaker 1: And it's I love post apocalyptic zombie m H stories
Speaker 1: genre stories like this, but there's always been also like
Speaker 1: an aversion I have to them. And the thing is
Speaker 1: that that inherent in this kind of like setup is
Speaker 1: the idea that, hey, you're gonna have to do what
Speaker 1: you have to do. Yeah, And there's something about listen,
Speaker 1: if you're looking for excuses to hurt and kill innocent people,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have an endless supply of them in this story,
Speaker 1: in this kind of world, in this kind of story.
Speaker 1: And here's Joel. Joel, Hey, we had to do what
Speaker 1: we had to do survive. That may have been true
Speaker 1: in the moment, it may not have been true in
Speaker 1: the moment.
Speaker 2: And also you probably didn't have to do it as
Speaker 2: regularly as you did it. That was probably the times
Speaker 2: when you really needed to survive. Then there was the
Speaker 2: times that you wanted a truck, or you wanted something
Speaker 2: other people had, or you killed a family who didn't
Speaker 2: have anything, or you know, we know, Joel's the kind
Speaker 2: of person who would leave a family with a kid
Speaker 2: at the side of the road if it meant protecting
Speaker 2: what was his. So we know we can't assume from
Speaker 2: this interaction that he's done some pretty terrible stuff and.
Speaker 1: At least he feels bad. It's very clear that whatever
Speaker 1: those things were, they weigh on him. He's not particularly
Speaker 1: proud of them, or else he would have said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I did. What do you mean? We had to Joel
Speaker 1: and Ellie make camp on one of the higher floors here.
Speaker 1: Joel then does the uh the Ethan Hunt tricks Mission
Speaker 1: Impossible one where he breaks the he breaks some glass
Speaker 1: and yeah, so that if somebody sneaks up on them,
Speaker 1: they you know, the glass will crunch and they will
Speaker 1: hear something. Why not also barricade the door. Don't worry
Speaker 1: about it. He's like a right Joe slipping. He well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing, he is fifty six. The stands really did.
Speaker 2: Like I also think we're getting to see something really
Speaker 2: interesting here, which is like, this is Joel without tests,
Speaker 2: and I don't think he's really realized that she's not there.
Speaker 1: You know, he knows she's not at that level.
Speaker 2: He he used to have this person who would always
Speaker 2: have his back, who would always be on his six
Speaker 2: like blah blah blah, he's she's there. Test is probably
Speaker 2: setting up some crazy trap. Test is shooting someone if
Speaker 2: you're taking a sleep like. There was a level of
Speaker 2: comfort to the life they had in the quarantine zone,
Speaker 2: and Joel kind of seems to be a little bit
Speaker 2: stuck in that even outside in this totally new city
Speaker 2: and this totally new place. Why didn't you barricade the door?
Speaker 2: Why didn't you You know, there's many things that you
Speaker 2: could ask about what Joel didn't do in this situation,
Speaker 2: But you know what, he's trying his best. I believe that,
Speaker 2: I believe, I.
Speaker 1: Know, I think that all of this I pointed out
Speaker 1: not to criticize Joel, but to say, this is like
Speaker 1: really good character. This isn't older. This is a guy
Speaker 1: who's slipping exact's fifty six years old, and it's not
Speaker 1: like a fifty six in a modern first world kind
Speaker 1: of content. This is a guy who's been living by
Speaker 1: his wits, leaving hand to mouth for twenty fucking, very
Speaker 1: very hard years, horrible years.
Speaker 2: Where he's done terrible things and lost everybody that he loves.
Speaker 1: And he just doesn't necessarily have his fastball right now,
Speaker 1: and I think he knows it. As they're falling asleep,
Speaker 1: Joel asks what Ellie meant by not her first time,
Speaker 1: and Ellie again she willing, not willing to expound on that,
Speaker 1: but Ellie asks, I think an important question, which is
Speaker 1: does it somehow, like you get older, you kill more people,
Speaker 1: does it get easier? And Joel says not really, which
Speaker 1: is not good you want.
Speaker 2: To hear, especially when you're like fourteen, But it's true.
Speaker 1: Right, But it's also a thing I think you want
Speaker 1: to hear from Joel because the last thing you want
Speaker 1: to hear is oh, yeah, I fucking I'm just like
Speaker 1: like in the game.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
Speaker 1: We're just like running through people.
Speaker 2: But good for Alli.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but and good for Joel because at least you
Speaker 1: know that he's hardest, still beating somewhere in there. And
Speaker 1: then Ellie tells Joel that, hey, I noticed you didn't
Speaker 1: You don't hear so well. Joel says it's because of
Speaker 1: the shooting, all the shooting, Like you wanted a gun,
Speaker 1: now you got one. I'll tell you, maybe you want
Speaker 1: to rely on the knife, which if the if the
Speaker 1: show is anything like the game, Ellie definitely will. And
Speaker 1: then Ellie has a really really important thing to ask
Speaker 1: Joel and she says, Joel, she know diarrhea's hereditary. It runs,
Speaker 1: it runs in your jeans, and we get a really
Speaker 1: great laugh from Joel. Now, the two of them laughing.
Speaker 1: It's a wonderful woman. It made me smile, and they
Speaker 1: and they.
Speaker 2: It starts where he's like, he laughs, and then he
Speaker 2: kind of tries to stop laughing and he's like, that
Speaker 2: is so fucking dumb, and then the two of them
Speaker 2: just lose it and they're like, you're losing it, You're
Speaker 2: losing it, and they're just giggling there. It's the first
Speaker 2: time we've seen Joel happy ever in the show. Actually
Speaker 2: even pre ever ever, yeah, even pre outbreak, but post outbreak.
Speaker 2: It's like his first smile, it's proper smile. It's his
Speaker 2: first laugh. And this is obviously a huge moment for
Speaker 2: the pair of them.
Speaker 1: They go to sleep and Joel is awoken by Ellie's
Speaker 1: panic voicing Joel, and when he wakes up, he finds
Speaker 1: two people standing a man and a child young boy
Speaker 1: standing over them, guns pointed in their faces, and we
Speaker 1: can only assume that this is Henry and Sam. Yes,
Speaker 1: the people who Kathleen has been looking for Don done.
Speaker 2: Dun Dunn, and the credits confine it. This is Henry
Speaker 2: and Sam. And if you are a game player, this
Speaker 2: is when your heart breaks into just after you slightly
Speaker 2: sewed it back together off the episode three.
Speaker 1: A shorter episode forty five minutes. I think necessarily so,
Speaker 1: considering like kind of heft that they gave us in
Speaker 1: episode three, but also an episode that really I think
Speaker 1: deals with I think it's a again just reiterate, I
Speaker 1: think a really smart and necessary thing, which is deal
Speaker 1: with the violence inherent in the game in a way
Speaker 1: that makes it feel.
Speaker 2: Weighty, y, real, Like I think that's really true.
Speaker 1: Taking out that ambusher who is just pathetically begging for
Speaker 1: their life in a way that feels like, wouldn't you
Speaker 1: do this? You would do this right if you thought
Speaker 1: it was all going to be over right now.
Speaker 2: It takes away it just hits hard, and it takes
Speaker 2: away that kind of like the aspect that anything like
Speaker 2: this can have, that like lone Wolf, like you're the
Speaker 2: good guy with the gun, like it takes away that
Speaker 2: element and adds so much more nuance and impact. And
Speaker 2: also I think it's really interesting to have that compared
Speaker 2: with the quickness and severity that Kathleen kills the doctor with.
Speaker 2: She walks and she kills him, it's done. Compared to
Speaker 2: that kind of horrific time that we spend, that shows
Speaker 2: us kind of the sacrifice of taking somebody's life. It's
Speaker 2: and also you get that then compare and you balance
Speaker 2: that with Joel and Ellie bonding over these puns, these
Speaker 2: kind of quiet moments, him telling her about Tommy. I
Speaker 2: think it's like a really impactful episode that I reckon
Speaker 2: as well, is probably gonna this will probably be a
Speaker 2: big rewatch episode I reckon, especially when you're talking about
Speaker 2: the revolution and looking at the seeds of that, because
Speaker 2: at first it seems like Kathleen is just rageful for
Speaker 2: no reason, and then you start to put together the
Speaker 2: seeds and you think, like, oh, okay, there's this some
Speaker 2: kind of revolution that she's a part of. Who was
Speaker 2: helping her, who wasn't helping her? These Federra co conspirac
Speaker 2: Also then you want to know why do people want
Speaker 2: to help Fedra? Like what version of life is that?
Speaker 2: Like you said, are they all under duress and then
Speaker 2: to introduce these like huge fan favorite characters in the
Speaker 2: last moments of the episode. And then after episode three,
Speaker 2: I feel like we're all kind of asking, like, are
Speaker 2: we going to get a Henry and Sam episode that
Speaker 2: is on a level with Bill and Frank, this kind
Speaker 2: of bottle episode that gives us more time with them,
Speaker 2: or is this going to be a journey we see
Speaker 2: them on with Joel and Ellie. I'm I'm very interested
Speaker 2: to see. But I just just another great episode and
Speaker 2: the writing on this show is just like so fucking good.
Speaker 1: It's really well done. Thoughts on what's under the floor.
Speaker 2: I think it's got to be a bloater. I think
Speaker 2: it's got to be a bloat I think, you know,
Speaker 2: we've seen clickers, We've had that really terrifying reveal. I
Speaker 2: think this is very interesting that the show is not
Speaker 2: leaning heavily into the horror right now. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 2: kind of more these moments of teasing and these momentary,
Speaker 2: big reveals like in episode two. But I think I
Speaker 2: think once you get to that episode five, you're over
Speaker 2: halfway through the season. I think that we're going to
Speaker 2: start ramping that up. I think we're going to see
Speaker 2: more infected. I think we're probably going to get a
Speaker 2: couple more brutal deaths, you know, the old like head
Speaker 2: on the broken glass move from the game, the kind
Speaker 2: of the Molotov cocktail situation. I feel like they're building
Speaker 2: in a lot of gameplay in this episode, and I
Speaker 2: feel like they might take that to the next level
Speaker 2: and bring a little bit more violence and horror as
Speaker 2: we get to that final kind of trail to the end.
Speaker 1: Here's my question, do the people in this world? Does
Speaker 1: Joel know about bloaters? Because in the game, bloaters are
Speaker 1: super rare, right, Like, there's very few. There's not like
Speaker 1: it's the rarest of the boss level infected. You don't
Speaker 1: fight them that much. I wonder if this is a
Speaker 1: semi new divice. I think so, if anybody's seen them yet,
Speaker 1: I think, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like, I think there's a wild West somebody who's in
Speaker 2: Kansas City may have. But I think they're going to
Speaker 2: be new to Joel. I think that's going to be
Speaker 2: he's been in the QZ the clickers him and test
Speaker 2: that was the thing they were most scared of, in
Speaker 2: my opinion, from the performances from the way they'd seen it,
Speaker 2: and I, yeah, I think that, I think that you're
Speaker 2: on the path here. Where are we going to get
Speaker 2: like a what the fuck is that? Like? I don't
Speaker 2: know kind of reaction from Joel.
Speaker 1: The show continues to be fucking great. We're going to
Speaker 1: continue our coverage with it every week and look for
Speaker 1: our coverage of the game also to come back shortly
Speaker 1: up next a very entertaining nerd out.
Speaker 2: In today's nerd out, where you tell us what you
Speaker 2: love and why or share a theory, which we're lucky
Speaker 2: to have another great one this week, Joe is going
Speaker 2: to pitch us on how the Mark with the Mouth
Speaker 2: Deadpool a real beloved character at this point in both
Speaker 2: the games and the films thanks to the Fox movies.
Speaker 2: Joe's got an idea of how he might turn up
Speaker 2: in the MCU, So Jason, I'll hand it over to you.
Speaker 1: Sure, Joe writes, after rewatching dead Pool one and two recently.
Speaker 1: The theory that I have is that at the end
Speaker 1: of Deadpool two, when Negasonic fixes the Time Slider, the
Speaker 1: great good old Negasi.
Speaker 2: Teenage, all time favorite inclusions and all time favorite castings
Speaker 2: bring her to the MCU.
Speaker 1: Next Love Negasonic teenage Warhead after Negasnic fixes the timeslider.
Speaker 1: Something in How She Fit is part of what will
Speaker 1: ultimately allow Deadpool a travel into the MCU continuity between
Speaker 1: Deadpool two and The X Men Day's Future Past movie,
Speaker 1: It's made clear in the Fox x Men Universe continuity
Speaker 1: that time travel is strictly linear and changing event will
Speaker 1: directly affect everything else. However, when Wade uses the time
Speaker 1: slider and save so Nessa, the linear effects would have
Speaker 1: avoided much of the story of Deadpool two. Yet in
Speaker 1: the MCU it's been made very clear that changing the
Speaker 1: timeline creates a splinter effect. Since Deadpool seems to be
Speaker 1: able to jump across these splinters, now, I wonder if
Speaker 1: that's how he'll sneak into the MCU. I like this.
Speaker 2: I think that is really smart and also think about it,
Speaker 2: when did we last see a Wolverine aka Logan? He
Speaker 2: was dead, So, you know what, having some kind of
Speaker 2: time travel situation would be very useful to getting Logan
Speaker 2: back into the MCU with a Deadpool as we know
Speaker 2: the movie will be. Obviously there's a variant potential, but
Speaker 2: after hearing Joe's theory, I'm thinking that the time slide.
Speaker 2: Time travel and the differences between time travel and the
Speaker 2: Fox universe and the MCU universe could really be a
Speaker 2: way to get Deadpool in here.
Speaker 1: I agree, it feels like there's something there not to
Speaker 1: mention that, Like, I mean, the pre Marvel X Men
Speaker 1: universe was just filled with time loopholes, oh my god,
Speaker 1: and opportunities.
Speaker 2: Speaking of and.
Speaker 1: Opportunities to pull these characters from almost any time frame
Speaker 1: that their movies like took place in. Uh. I think
Speaker 1: that it feels like Joe's on. I think it would
Speaker 1: not be surprised.
Speaker 2: Because our newest villain, Kang the Conqueror, who we're obviously gonna,
Speaker 2: you know, see an a man, and it seems like
Speaker 2: it will be the Conqueror iteration of Kang, that is
Speaker 2: a man who is obsessed with time. He can control time,
Speaker 2: He's a time traveler. Now we know in the MCU
Speaker 2: it is also going to be this idea of multiverses.
Speaker 2: But in the newest at Man Quantumania trailer, they have
Speaker 2: this line where Kang says, you know, every single thing
Speaker 2: that you see is life. I will burn out of time.
Speaker 2: So I think this idea of time travel and time
Speaker 2: being a malleable thing that's going to become ever more
Speaker 2: important to the MCU. I think Joe's onto something. This
Speaker 2: could be a we were right for the nerd out.
Speaker 1: Thank you Joe. If you have theories or passions you
Speaker 1: want to share, hit us at x ray at cricket
Speaker 1: dot com instructions or in the show notes. That's it
Speaker 1: for us. Rosie an he plugs you.
Speaker 2: Know Itify me Rosie Marx on Instagram and letterboxed and
Speaker 2: this week I'm plugging the newly created Crooked Union. I'm
Speaker 2: very happy about this. Shout out to our comrades, our
Speaker 2: solidarity at the U with our CROKEETG.
Speaker 1: We love the w G, the WJA.
Speaker 2: This is great, really happy that this is happening, and
Speaker 2: just sending all our support to all of our amazing
Speaker 2: folks at Crookeet who announced that union movement.
Speaker 1: Catch the next episode on Friday for routenes and remember
Speaker 1: bring you two episodes a week every Wednesday and Friday
Speaker 1: on the podcast platform of your.
Speaker 2: Choice you can pick and I remember. You can also
Speaker 2: find us on YouTube subscribe you can watch full episodes
Speaker 2: of the show now ones where we're on zoom like
Speaker 2: this being very cool and virtual ones where we're irl
Speaker 2: in the same place at the Crooked Studio. Follow us
Speaker 2: at XRV pod on Twitter where we're always doing cool stuff, sharing,
Speaker 2: answering questions, retweeting rad things, talking about tattoos, and check
Speaker 2: out our discord. Me and Jason are there are super
Speaker 2: producer Soul's been active in there talking about D and D.
Speaker 2: You never know who you're gonna find in there. We've
Speaker 2: got loads of cool friends of the pod, the guy
Speaker 2: at h from joom pods in there, and we got
Speaker 2: a bunch of cool listeners and fans just talking about
Speaker 2: all the stuff that we love. And we even recently
Speaker 2: did a really rad Lost of Us giveaway, so we're
Speaker 2: gonna be trying to do more stuff like that. So basically,
Speaker 2: join the discord. It's great that giveaway.
Speaker 1: The winner of that will be announced on Friday's show
Speaker 1: this week. We'll be announcing that Friday, and we'll be doing,
Speaker 1: as Rosie mentioned, more taper ways like that in the future.
Speaker 1: So join the discord. It's fun. Five star reviews, we
Speaker 1: love them. Here's one from aj from PA love this pod.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Agent, I appreciate it. Jason and Rosie are
Speaker 1: a great team to discuss all things pop culture. Thank you.
Speaker 1: They have great insight. You can tell they truly love
Speaker 1: discussing and breaking down the content they are discussing. I
Speaker 1: especially enjoy how they relate the series they are covering
Speaker 1: to the source material. I only wish they would cover
Speaker 1: more shows because there is so much to enjoy in
Speaker 1: the various fandoms Right now, Hey, you never know.
Speaker 2: Two episodes We've trying.
Speaker 1: We're gonna keep we may we maybe we'll keep going.
Speaker 1: You never know. Thank you so much, AJ for the
Speaker 1: kind words. X Ray Vision is a Crooked Media production.
Speaker 1: The show is produced by Chris Lord and Sol Rubin.
Speaker 1: The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Rhard
Speaker 1: are editing in sound designs by Vascillis Fatopoulos, Dilon Villanueva
Speaker 1: and Matt Degroup provide video production support. Alex Rella for
Speaker 1: handle social media. Thank you, Brian Vasquez for theme music
Speaker 1: All Friday.
Speaker 2: Hi